highaltitude.log.20130328

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[05:25] <Spoz> anyone know of predictors that timestamp the track with an altitude?
[05:26] <Spoz> Id like to provide the prediction track to ATC to ease their concerns about path uncertainty
[05:26] <Spoz> alternative is to calculate by hand and assume a constant ascent rate
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[05:46] <x-f> Spoz, regular predictor can output a CSV format (link on top right)
[05:47] <x-f> you just have to convert the UNIX timestamp to a normal date-time field
[05:47] <Spoz> oh totally missed that, thanks!
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[07:59] <Spoz> woohoo, notam issued!
[07:59] <number10> where are you launching from Spoz
[08:00] <Spoz> jandowae, QLD, australia
[08:00] <Spoz> 30/03/13 1:00 utc
[08:02] <number10> ah - thats the opposite side of oz to where darkside is
[08:02] <Spoz> yes, quite some distance
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[08:03] <number10> your first launch?
[08:06] <Spoz> no, second one
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[08:25] Nick change: daveake -> MrGrumpy
[08:27] <number10> whats wrong with you - bad predictions
[08:27] <UpuWork> haha
[08:27] <MrGrumpy> No heating
[08:27] <MrGrumpy> Next door's ridiculous planning permission got approval last night
[08:28] <UpuWork> ping Gadget-Mac
[08:28] <MrGrumpy> The copious red wine consumed afterwards wasn't enough to cheer me up
[08:28] <number10> oh - not good - I thought heating was fixed
[08:28] <number10> what do they want to do next door?
[08:29] <MrGrumpy> heating was fixed worked for a short while then the boiler stopped and won't restart
[08:30] <MrGrumpy> next door bungalow --> 5 bed 2-storey house
[08:30] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Lots of that sort of development happening round here...
[08:31] <MrGrumpy> planning committee just a load of brainless jobsworths
[08:31] <MrGrumpy> The family's sob story is "this house is too small for us and our 4 kids"
[08:32] <MrGrumpy> So wtf buy a house 1 year ago that was too small for said family?
[08:32] <MrGrumpy> Anyway all OT and it's not doing my BP any good
[08:32] Nick change: MrGrumpy -> MrSmiley
[08:33] <MrSmiley> On the plus side, I have a sudden need to erect a BFO aerial mast at the end of my garden
[08:33] <LazyLeopard> Here they've mostly been sensible, with good limits on height increase. The one really ugly development didn't involve any height increase, though. The house concerned just grew back and sprung lots of dormer windows...
[08:34] <LazyLeopard> 100ft tower do you? ;)
[08:43] <MrSmiley> just about :)
[08:43] <MrSmiley> I'll have a chat with the local radio ham as he's been through the application process
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[09:52] <GMT> Any news on a launch date/time for BLAST?
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Mount the mast on a wheeled trailer then you don't need PP, as its a temporary construction (or something like that!).
[09:58] <daveake> Yeah I heard that :)
[09:58] <daveake> An extreme solution to regain privacy - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/06/huge-leylandii-plymouth-dispute LOL
[10:02] <gonzo_> a friend had the neigbours moaning about a 24ft scaff poll with a met qfh on it. Which was only left leaning against the shed for a few days
[10:03] <gonzo_> council said it was temp so he had 28days anyway. But when asked about boplting it to the LR in the drive (been static there for years) they said that was a DoT issue, no interest to them
[10:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> My system just grew over a couple of years, its been up now for some 40 years so I only have to be careful about the amount of time I have it down for mtce!
[10:04] <gonzo_> the trailer mast loophole works as long as it it truly portable. So you can't put in concreted in stays for lashing it down to etc
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[10:05] <gonzo_> when I moved into my house I put a pole in. It was hidden behind a tree. So was there for years before it was noticed (when the tree came down)
[10:05] <gonzo_> then too late to complain
[10:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> ah but you are allowed to us screwed devices into existing structures, i.e. expansion bolts (temporary fixings again) ;-)
[10:05] <gonzo_> 4yrs rule?
[10:06] <gonzo_> if you had lots of assorted tie down points and you used different ones as you moved it around the garden.....?
[10:07] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup, and usually two weeks down for mtce. but that appears to never have been sttled in court but don't want to even think about that!
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That would probably work as well
[10:09] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I just started with a 20' scaffold pole at ground level on wall brackets, then kept watering it and it magically grew up above ground level....
[10:10] <costyn> daveake: that article about the guy with the giant tree in his front-yard... omg... does he not want light in his house?
[10:11] <HixWork> hes branching out into green energy
[10:15] <gonzo_> no, not more tree puns!
[10:16] <staylo> Oh, was that a tree pun? I hadn't twigged
[10:16] <costyn> If this continues I will leaf
[10:17] <fsphil> Shiver me timbers, tree puns
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[10:18] <gonzo_> two pun threads for the price of one!
[10:18] <fsphil> this channel is getting lumbered with puns
[10:19] <costyn> we might be barking up the wrong tree
[10:19] <staylo> I think you've identified the root problem
[10:19] <daveake> My neighbour is a green party candidate, so yes you can do the tree puns :)
[10:19] <fsphil> is that a splinter group?
[10:22] <HixWork> wood you lot just cut it out
[10:23] <fsphil> sounds like your getting hacked off
[10:23] <gonzo_> this is all starting to bore
[10:24] <GMT> ther's a new IRC command to reduce this silliness ... /chop
[10:24] <HixWork> do you have and axe to grind GMT?
[10:26] <gonzo_> this just goes against the grain
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[10:26] <staylo> If the puns were bad I could understand, but they're such high quality that acorn see a problem
[10:26] <gonzo_> hope that comment isn't going out on a limb?
[10:26] <costyn> gonzo_: we'll just have to let it blossom and let it runs its course
[10:27] <gonzo_> that';s it in a nutshell
[10:29] <GMT> Oh cod, no! .... sorry, I'm in the wrong joke, I will go out and come in again!
[10:29] <costyn> GMT: are you hoping to bait us into a new pun thread?
[10:29] <gonzo_> he's just dangling the hook there
[10:30] <costyn> I think he's just trolling
[10:30] <gonzo_> well it's a batter pun thread I recon
[10:31] <gonzo_> just a chip off the old block
[10:31] <gonzo_> (practicing tangential pulling now)
[10:31] <gonzo_> punning
[10:32] <gonzo_> did we get ano update on the BLAST launches?
[10:32] <GMT> oh no, now I've got a haddock .... bugger, done it again!
[10:33] <GMT> gonzo:, no, that's why I'm here, and now I've been dragged into somebody else's tree-based pun-hell
[10:34] <staylo> It was trees, but then you introduced fish. Some of us were stumped and the rest are bamboozled
[10:36] <fsphil> hmm.. still no images from strand-1
[10:36] <fsphil> how long does it take to turn on a phone? :)
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[10:36] <costyn> fsphil: well, long if it's been hacked and modified as it seems to be :)
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[10:39] <gonzo_> and those who are not bamboozled, are all at sea
[10:39] <gonzo_> normal bold
[10:39] <gonzo_> ah that's good. Never knew that happened
[10:52] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah ha FIZZLE has appeared on the tracker I wonder if there flying today ?
[10:53] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE_: No, just testing.
[10:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is it likely for tomorrow then ?
[10:54] <craag> I've not been offered a lift with blast this time.
[10:54] <craag> But they're waiting for winds at the launch site to be <30mph. Not looking hopeful.
[10:55] <daveake> Mrs Dave thoughfully bought me a little anenometer for my birthday last week
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[10:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah OK right I'll check the predictions then
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[11:42] <mfa298> looks like there might be and sdr app for android, I've not (yet) tried it out http://sdr.martinmarinov.info/
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[11:48] <fsphil> it's sadly not free
[11:48] <fsphil> and I don't fancy giving my CC details to google :)
[11:49] <fsphil> but the demo did work when I tried it, was able to receive some commercial radio with an rtl-sdr hooked up to my nexus 7
[11:49] Nick change: Mission-Critical -> MissionCritical
[11:50] <mfa298> I hadn't made it as far as seeing if it cost or not
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[11:53] <mfa298> not showing upon the play store for my tablet
[11:54] <craag> I've installed it but can't get it to rx anything atm
[11:58] <craag> It appears that my tablet doesn't provide enough usb power for the rtlsdr.
[12:04] <Maxell> craag: and a powered usb hub? :P
[12:05] <craag> Maxell: Don't have a spare lying around unfortunately.
[12:07] <Maxell> Hmm, yeah. I don't know what to think of it.
[12:07] <Maxell> I like free software.
[12:07] <Maxell> It feels like using free software for rtl-sdr is a *must*
[12:08] <Maxell> But SDR# and SDRTouch are both not free.
[12:08] <Darkside> all the good ones aren't
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[12:08] <Darkside> on linux GQRX is ok
[12:08] <Maxell> Gqrx is suffiecnt.
[12:08] <Darkside> on windows i'd go with SDR-Radio v2
[12:08] <Darkside> which is awesome
[12:09] <Maxell> SDR-radio?
[12:09] <Darkside> http://v2.sdr-radio.com/
[12:10] <mfa298> SDR radio does seem to be pretty powerful and I've only tried it with the FCD+ so far, with the rtl-sdr the multiple vfo's will be very useful
[12:10] <Maxell> "just pure Windows in all its glory. Please don't ask" lold
[12:12] <mfa298> although I'd have liked more control over where I can move windows in the iterface (but that might need more playing)
[12:13] <mfa298> I think SDR-radio is from the same guy that originally made HRD.
[12:13] <Darkside> yeah
[12:13] <Darkside> pretty sure it is
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE__> Downloads don't appear to work for the previews ?
[12:14] <Darkside> hm
[12:14] <Darkside> yeah not working for me either
[12:14] <Darkside> but i already have the file
[12:14] <mfa298> they did last week
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE__> <Darkside> Can you make it available anywhere ?
[12:16] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE__ -> Geoff-G8DHE
[12:16] <Darkside> not atm
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> No probs
[12:16] <mfa298> I'm just copying the file into dropbox
[12:16] <Darkside> on 3g interwebs
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Good man
[12:17] <mfa298> its going to take ~15 minutes to upload
[12:18] <mfa298> but link should be https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14636926/SDR-RADIO-Pro_v2.0b1315.exe
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> No hassle, just twiddling me thumbs at the mo waiting for XYL to get ready!
[12:19] <Maxell> And it's free software? :o
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[12:20] <mfa298> free to install and use but I think its closed source
[12:20] <Darkside> yeah, closed source
[12:20] <Darkside> the guy is using some proprietary optimised libs
[12:21] <Maxell> fuck that shit
[12:21] <Maxell> :P
[12:21] <mfa298> for the rtl-sdr I think you have to add extra files (like sdr#)
[12:21] <Maxell> o_0
[12:21] <Maxell> gqrx werks
[12:22] <mfa298> SDR Radio appears to have some really good features like the multiple vfo's meaning you could listen to 6 HAB flights with one reciever
[12:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.hb9drv.ch/ham.wav
[12:27] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaHm1ecBCgw
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tks
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[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> The upload is complete as I'm now downloading it ;-)
[12:36] <mfa298> I think it just finished
[12:39] <Spoz> 1kg launch weight! is that a lot?
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[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK seems to work OK, using the rtl-sdr dongles, have to play with the menu's see whats where
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> <mfa298> Thanks for the upload!
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[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> bbl the xyl is ready!
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[13:02] <fsphil> Spoz: it's not toooo bad
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[13:26] <Spoz> its lighter than the last one :/
[13:27] <Spoz> but I still wouldnt want it to land on my head at 5m/s
[13:27] <fsphil> no
[13:27] <Spoz> nearly half of it is batteries
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[13:28] <fsphil> necessary?
[13:28] <Spoz> not entirely... the video transmitter sucks a lot
[13:28] <Spoz> but the battery for that is just a hobbyking thing, 4000mAh
[13:28] <fsphil> ATV is nice
[13:28] <Spoz> I could get away with 2500-3000
[13:28] <fsphil> brb, lunch
[13:28] <Spoz> seeya
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[13:30] <gonzo_> wish we could do the same here
[13:30] <gonzo_> though the lack of AR bands for airborne use has probably forces a lot of useful low power development
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[14:05] <LokisSword> Hi people.. potential new HAB'er here - just dropped by to see whats going on :)
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[14:12] <Brace> hey LokisSword, I'm in the same boat, lots of very knowledgable folk on here and there's loads of info on the wiki
[14:13] <LokisSword> Yeah I'm reading what I can find, I've just bought an SDR dongle and playing with that. Still deciding if I want to go Arduino / Rasp Pi... Logic says Arduino... my brain says Pi
[14:13] <mfa298> LokisSword: most people will suggest Arduino (or other micro controller) rather than the Rasp Pi
[14:13] <navrac-work> hmm, brain might be wrong... its really not the ideal platform - takes a lot of power whch means a lot of weight= less payload
[14:14] <navrac-work> without doubt the arduino is the best trodden route. but as bit of vasriety is always good
[14:14] <LokisSword> Yup, logically should start with Arduino. Just had my mind set on getting one for tinkering before I stumbled across this hobby and started getting obsessed :D
[14:15] <navrac-work> oh dear - join the club, it does get a bit obsessive - I've had to take a forced break due to work for a few months now and I'm itching to do another flight
[14:15] <Brace> and arduino is cheaper :D
[14:16] <LokisSword> Saw on the wiki it says SDR not suitable for tracking an actual flight.. whats people take on that? Because if I need to buy a £200 receiver in addition to Balloon/payload costs things are getting pricey!
[14:16] <Brace> I just bought a uno + starter kit for 24 quid off ebay
[14:16] <navrac-work> but you cant do ssdv with an arduino
[14:16] <mfa298> there's also plenty of example bits of code on the ukhas wiki for the arduino
[14:17] <navrac-work> only issue with the uno is that its 5v wheras most of the accessories that you need are 3v3 and now 1v8 is the current fasion - but depends on what you want to do
[14:17] <mfa298> navrac-work: I had a feeling there had been some ssdv on the arduino (or possibly avr) but it's not as easy (need a suitable serial webcam)
[14:18] <navrac-work> depends on whether its taking photos or going for distance/altitude thats your thing
[14:18] <Brace> navrac-work: oh
[14:18] <navrac-work> ymfa298 yes that's true -
[14:18] <Brace> didn't realise that'd be an issue
[14:18] <Brace> oops
[14:19] <fsphil> navrac-work: you can do SSDV on the AVR, just requires a specific camera
[14:19] <navrac-work> no it can be got round with a quick level converter, upu does gps boards with level converters on and the ntx transmitter will work fine
[14:19] <fsphil> sadly expensive camera
[14:19] <mfa298> Brace: you can get a 5v board for the ublox (that has the level converters)
[14:19] <navrac-work> yes its the sadly expensive bit i dont like
[14:20] <Brace> well the only thing I'm doing with the arduino is the radio and GPS
[14:20] <fsphil> indeed. I suspect I'll end up using the Pi eventually
[14:20] <Brace> so hopefully it'll be ok
[14:20] <fsphil> but if you're not doing images, then just use an Arduino/AVR
[14:20] <navrac-work> you will be fine then
[14:20] <navrac-work> the uno is fine for that
[14:20] <fsphil> you don't have that pesky operating system getting in the way of your rtty timing :)
[14:21] <Brace> I'm getting a camera which will take photos every minute or so and making sure it's got a card big enough to capture the whole flight
[14:21] <gonzo_> don't know whe people say an sdr is noty suitable for rx? Plenty of people on here use them
[14:21] <Brace> keep the first flight nice and simple :D
[14:21] <navrac-work> im tryingt to decide what to do for the next flight - I was going to do a series of balloons and do radio repeaters - but if the rfm33 is going it seems pointless
[14:21] <fsphil> SDR is fine for tracking. sure it's not ideal but it will work
[14:22] <fsphil> Darkside's HAMAMP will help
[14:22] <Darkside> yes, yes it will
[14:22] <navrac-work> so its down to a choice between home made superpressure or experimenting with different transmitters
[14:22] <fsphil> home made zero pressure would be nifty :)
[14:22] <navrac-work> yep the habamp does help a lot with the sdr's
[14:22] <fsphil> I've chased flights using just the funcube dongle
[14:23] <LokisSword> HAMAMP? Google here I come ...
[14:23] <Darkside> HABAMP*
[14:23] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[14:23] <navrac-work> I've done two small superpressures already one burst early one got to a nice height and the tx failed
[14:23] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[14:23] <Darkside> urgh
[14:23] <Darkside> beat me
[14:23] <gonzo_> my tracker advice would be to start off with a small microcontroler and make a simple reliable tracker to fly first time. They you can use it as a back up tracker when you start flying more comples kit
[14:23] <Darkside> always be sure to protect your dongle
[14:23] <navrac-work> hi upu
[14:23] <mfa298> Darkside: you did better than me I was still looking for the URL
[14:24] <UpuWork> afternoon Navrac
[14:24] <navrac-work> how about a pin compatible rfm board using the later si chips and new code as an alternative to the RFM?
[14:25] <UpuWork> well thats what I'm thinking
[14:25] <Darkside> i want to use a Si1000
[14:25] <Darkside> they'll do 1.8v
[14:25] <UpuWork> I have all the values of the components now
[14:25] <UpuWork> apart from the inductors
[14:25] <navrac-work> I'm happy to write a very basic cw library for one
[14:25] <UpuWork> my LCR meter doesn't go down to that
[14:25] <UpuWork> if you're about this evening lets have a chat
[14:26] <navrac-work> assuming that work doesnt end up mad again
[14:26] <navrac-work> yes no plans for this evening
[14:26] <UpuWork> Si1000 has inbuilt µC Darkside ?
[14:26] <Darkside> yes
[14:26] <Darkside> attach gps and go
[14:26] <UpuWork> what do you program it with ?
[14:26] <Darkside> this is the fun part
[14:27] <Darkside> once the chip has a bootloader on it it can be programmed via uart
[14:27] <Darkside> now, the HM-TRPs have the bootloader on as stock
[14:27] <Darkside> dunno about the chips direct from Si
[14:27] <UpuWork> I think I'll stick with AVR's
[14:27] <Darkside> theres also a separate programmer
[14:27] <Darkside> to put the bootloader on
[14:28] <Darkside> but yeah, same problem with the uart i guess
[14:28] <Darkside> im using some of these modules for TDMA experiments
[14:28] <UpuWork> ok
[14:28] <Darkside> with the eventual aim to produce a single-frequency full-duplex codec2 repeater
[14:28] <UpuWork> whatever the irc emote for impressed is
[14:28] <navrac-work> might be nice to do it in assembler - 8051 code is pretty well established
[14:29] <Darkside> i'd do it in C
[14:29] <Darkside> SDCC supports the Si1000s
[14:29] <LokisSword> ok HABAMP looks good, so that with a decent Yagi aerial would do for starters?
[14:29] <Darkside> you don't even need a yagi for tracking when its in teh air
[14:29] <Darkside> helps when its landed though
[14:29] <HixWork> THEY'RE A BIT OF A PAIN FOR TRACKING TBH
[14:29] <fsphil> a simple magmount for chasing
[14:29] <HixWork> Oops sorry, eng dwg mnode again
[14:29] <fsphil> stick it on the top of the car, you'll have no problem while it's flying
[14:30] <fsphil> the payload that is, not the car
[14:30] <fsphil> but if it can then great :)
[14:30] <HixWork> heh
[14:30] <navrac-work> yep - although I'd skip the yagi, I'd stick with a colinear - cheaper and no nasty pointing to do
[14:30] <HixWork> ^ what he said
[14:33] <fsphil> I keep meaning to try tracking with the rtl-sdr
[14:34] <mfa298> I've tried listening a couple of times and havn't heard much but thats been with just the standaed mag mount antenna and no hab amp
[14:36] <LokisSword> I got my rl-sdr yesterday, so far haven't done much with it other than ads-b tracking... don't think the crappy scanner aerial I bought from maplins is that great though
[14:37] <LokisSword> *rtl-sdr
[14:37] <mfa298> if you've got a reasonable antenna then location makes a big difference.
[14:37] <navrac-work> yeah, the rtl-sdr's are allright for bench testing a payload but it needs the hab amp for any serious tracking
[14:38] <fsphil> indeed
[14:39] <LokisSword> simple enough to mod the dongle to let the habamp take power from there?
[14:39] <fsphil> turns out they're actually pretty good DVB receivers too. who'd have thought
[14:39] <mfa298> shame there's nothing good on DVB for them to be good recievers for :p
[14:40] <fsphil> this is true
[14:40] <fsphil> well doctor who starts this weekend :)
[14:40] <Darkside> ooh
[14:41] <fsphil> you still got access to iplayer Darkside?
[14:41] <Darkside> nah
[14:41] <fsphil> I bet I could stream the raw BBC HD stream straight from satellite to the net
[14:41] <Darkside> lol
[14:42] <fsphil> in theory I have the bandwidth
[14:42] <Darkside> it'll be shown on local tv
[14:42] <Darkside> that night
[14:42] <fsphil> ah sweet
[14:42] <Darkside> the ABC here is pretty good with that
[14:43] <fsphil> I don't remember too much except a lot of cop shows
[14:44] <fsphil> and macguyver
[14:44] <Darkside> lol
[14:47] <Spoz> I just macguyvered a 600W inverter
[14:47] <Spoz> the best electrical systems are held together with gaffer tape right
[14:47] <fsphil> with bubblegum?
[14:48] <fsphil> the last one I saw I think he made a gun out of bamboo
[14:48] <Spoz> it's fused so it'll be fine
[14:48] <Spoz> I dont know where the fuse is
[14:48] <Spoz> but theres bound to be a slightly-thinner-than-everything-else piece of wire somewhere
[14:49] <fsphil> on the plus side it'll be happy to point itself out
[14:49] <Spoz> exactly
[14:49] <Spoz> serves as a "fuse activated" light too
[14:49] <mfa298> if not I'm sure it will provide some warning magic smoke to let you know
[14:50] <mfa298> that magic smoke is such useful stuff
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[14:55] <fsphil> I've yet to have a magic smoke incident
[14:56] <fsphil> from something I've built anyway. all my stuff is logic level :)
[14:56] <fsphil> I did get a PIC chip hot enought to burn my finger
[14:56] <Darkside> i've killed a micronut payload
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[14:56] <Darkside> incorrctly wired battery pack
[14:56] <Darkside> :(
[14:56] <Spoz> :(
[14:57] <number10> stick a diode on it Darkside
[14:57] <Darkside> i should have
[14:57] <Darkside> anyway, the LDO smoked
[14:57] <Darkside> and the rest of the payload got subjected to -6v
[14:57] <Darkside> and died
[14:57] <Darkside> gps, radio, mcu, alld ead
[14:57] <Darkside> its now my 'show-and-tell' micronut board :P
[14:58] <mfa298> I did that with a small audio amplifier chip once, put a SLA on backwards. No much magix smoke but a nice hole in the top of the package
[14:59] <mfa298> its a good lesson in always checking the polarity of what your connecting up (or having suitable connectors on everything)
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[15:00] <fsphil> polarised connectors ftw
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[15:01] <Darkside> well
[15:01] <Darkside> i had a keyed conector
[15:01] <Darkside> connector*
[15:01] <Darkside> but i had wired it wrong
[15:01] <Darkside> :(
[15:01] <fsphil> ack
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[15:03] <Spoz> ahh oziexplorer doesnt plot the full kml track from the predictor
[15:03] <Spoz> looks like it stores altitude as a short integer
[15:04] <Spoz> that wouldnt be right though
[15:04] <Spoz> but it stops drawing the track at around 32000m
[15:05] <HixWork> £2.55 for a single LO
[15:05] <HixWork> LDO http://goo.gl/uwIU7
[15:05] <HixWork> obscene
[15:06] <HixWork> any other ideas for a 1.5A 3v3 SOT23 anyone?
[15:06] <fsphil> oh yea, they publish eagle files now
[15:06] <SamSilver> I the legs on that HixWork
[15:07] <HixWork> ? SamSilver
[15:08] <HixWork> good spot fsphil
[15:10] <Darkside> hm
[15:10] <Darkside> dunno about a SOT23
[15:10] <Darkside> i use TPS76633's
[15:10] <Darkside> SO-8s
[15:10] <HixWork> though try downloading one fsphil - I get locked in a cycle of register - login
[15:10] <Darkside> they dont do 1.5A tho
[15:10] <Darkside> 300mA or so
[15:10] <HixWork> it's to replace a fried part on a board Darkside
[15:10] <Darkside> oh
[15:10] <HixWork> needs to be min 1.5A
[15:10] <Darkside> 1.5A in a SOT23 seems a bit overkill
[15:11] <Darkside> well
[15:11] <Darkside> not overkill
[15:11] <Darkside> worrying
[15:11] <HixWork> which is awkward
[15:11] <HixWork> its for a GSM module so it is gonna use it on signal bursts
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[15:11] <HixWork> theoretically can draw 2A
[15:12] <HixWork> though breakout i bought from china had 1.5A SOT-23
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[15:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Marco (projectBLAST) "[UKHAS] University of Southampton Project BLAST - Launch CANCELLED"
[15:26] <m0psi> WASP-1 stats:
[15:26] <m0psi> Max Altitude: 31070 m / 101936 ft
[15:26] <m0psi> Max Horizontal Speed: 172km/h , 107mph
[15:26] <m0psi> Max Vertical Speed: 8.7m/s , 31 km/h , 19mph (on the ascent)
[15:26] <m0psi> Max Vertical Speed: 63m/s , 228 km/h , 141mph (on the descent)
[15:26] <m0psi> coutesty of Buzz telems
[15:27] <m0psi> courtesy
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[15:37] <HixWork> BLAST - Being Launched At Some Time
[15:37] <mfa298> HixWork: nice one!
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[15:45] <Babs> All - how do I know if a flight doc has gone through the system and been approved? Thanks in advance
[15:47] <UpuWork> will appear in the calendar feed
[15:47] <UpuWork> did you ask for it to be approved ?
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[15:49] <Babs> I submitted it - do I then need to email someone?
[15:50] <Babs> or just flag it to someone on the IRC?
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[15:52] <UpuWork> you need to join #habhub
[15:52] <UpuWork> ask someone to approve it
[15:52] <UpuWork> post the flight doc id
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[15:58] <Spoz> does insulating the transmitter really help with thermal drift that much?
[15:58] <Spoz> 2 hours in the freezing cold will get through any styrofoam box...
[15:59] <Spoz> my last one was not well insulated and the drift was pretty bad, not sure what lengths I should go to this time
[16:00] <Babs> (I guess) I have already done that by registering on http://habitat.habhub.org/ and saving the payload configuration docs (or am I missing something? EDIT: probably)
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[16:02] <LazyLeopard> Try /join #habhub
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I am writing a little python code which will hopefully read a Ublox 6 GPS and then send it to an NTX2 radio transmitter. All of this will be done using hardware serial. https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5264374 Am I on the right lineS?
[16:05] <UpuWork> Spoz its rapid changes of temperature you want to avoid
[16:05] <UpuWork> Babs you will have created a flight doc butyou then have to get it approved for a flight, however if you're testing only at the moment it will work
[16:05] <UpuWork> approving just means it appears on the drop down list in dl-fldigi and stats etc
[16:07] <Spoz> hm I guess so
[16:07] <Spoz> ok, new box it is
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[16:20] <eroomde> some people send emails
[16:20] <eroomde> but BLAST, they send press releases
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[16:28] <craag> hehe
[16:37] <Willdude123> Afternoon.
[16:38] <HixWork> hey Willdude123
[16:38] <Willdude123> No school for 2 and 4/7ths weeks.
[16:38] <Willdude123> Well, 3/7ths.
[16:38] <HixWork> git
[16:39] <Willdude123> Don't call me that.
[16:39] <Willdude123> Or were you referring to that git?
[16:40] <HixWork> heh
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[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:53] <Willdude123> Hi.
[16:55] <Willdude123> The dilemmas of life. FSX runs on Windows but not Linux and dl-fldigi runs on Linux but not Windows.
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> why doesn't dl-fldigi work on Win?
[16:56] <cuddykid> I have a raspberry pi at last D
[16:56] <cuddykid> * :D
[16:56] <Willdude123> It routes sound from my microphone even when I tick playback.
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[16:58] <mfa298> you could always use something like Virtual Audio Cable so you can playback using something like vlc
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[17:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that SDR-Radio package is quite good isn't it,
[17:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> UI is a little confusing to begin with however!
[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> just got it set up two watch 434.075 and 434.650 at the same time :-)
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[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> feeding two copies of fl-digi so that the reports go back simultaenously, pleasing!
[17:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> dl-fldigi runs on Win ok ?
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[17:08] <eroomde> FINISHED
[17:08] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h77gsdr6vllm054/2013-03-28%2016.59.06.jpg
[17:08] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0pdkm6nmfz4p64/2013-03-28%2017.00.09.jpg
[17:08] <chrisstubbs> woahh
[17:08] <chrisstubbs> that looks awesome :)
[17:09] <G0DJA> What is it?
[17:09] <eroomde> it's a multichannel pressure log i've been designing (and now have built)
[17:09] <eroomde> for a rocket engine
[17:09] <eroomde> pressure logger*
[17:10] <G0DJA> Very good - now catch your rocket?
[17:10] <eroomde> rocket is strapped down to the rig
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> My uBlox NEO6 came at last :D
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> 3-5 day delivery turned into 3 weeks
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[17:35] <chrisstubbs> who said ublox soldering was easy? :O
[17:36] <eroomde> me
[17:36] <eroomde> you need a decent iron
[17:36] <eroomde> tack 2 oposing corners onto pre-wetted pads
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[17:36] <eroomde> then go round and solder the rest of the pads properly
[17:36] <chrisstubbs> check
[17:36] <cuddykid> daveake: do you supply 5V to pi via GPIO pins?
[17:37] <chrisstubbs> and check
[17:37] <eroomde> then go back to the first two to add a bit more solder
[17:37] <chrisstubbs> ive got 2 on now, one joint looks perfect the other looks crap
[17:39] <eroomde> crap in what way
[17:39] <eroomde> random bits sticking out?
[17:39] <eroomde> not a nice smooth shiny fillet?
[17:39] <daveake> cuddykid Have done but no I use the test points on the PCB
[17:39] <daveake> GPIO would be fine
[17:40] <cuddykid> ah ok cheers
[17:40] <chrisstubbs> wasnt wicking up into the half via thing in the ublox properly, just needed a bit more solder
[17:40] <chrisstubbs> getting there, cheers :)
[17:40] <eroomde> ok
[17:40] <eroomde> a flex pens helps too
[17:40] <eroomde> + clean pads
[17:41] <eroomde> i usually give the boards a quick wipe down with IPA before starting to solder onto them, just to get rid of random greasy spots
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> cleaned the pads over with acetone and a cotton bud before u started and i have a "no clean flux" pen
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> rubbish ebay thing, the flux evaporates before you can get the iron to it
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[17:51] <chrisstubbs> oh my that was stressful but i think im done
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[17:51] <chrisstubbs> one of the ground connections has blobbed onto the metal shield of the GPS, would that matter>
[17:52] <chrisstubbs> i imagine the case is grounded anyway?
[17:52] <number10> DAQ looks good eroomde
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[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, cool
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[18:08] <eroomde> thanks number10
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[18:16] <chrisstubbs> right! time to go outside and see if this thing gets lock! :) brb
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[18:34] <chrisstubbs> oh. dear
[18:35] <chrisstubbs> no serial data and hot voltage regulator is never a good sign
[18:35] <Morseman> Oh dear. Doesn't sound too good
[18:35] <Morseman> Short circuit somewhere?
[18:35] <chrisstubbs> time to check!
[18:36] <Morseman> Is this the UBlox you were talking about earlier?
[18:36] <daveake> time to switch off :)
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> it was putting out serial data fine before i soldered the antenna on
[18:37] <Morseman> This is where a PSU with settable current limiting can be useful
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> yeah :/
[18:38] <chrisstubbs> 5 ohms between gnd and 3v3
[18:38] <Morseman> AH!
[18:38] <Morseman> solder bridge somewhere?
[18:41] <Morseman> Hope you find it - can be a pain finding links at times
[18:42] <chrisstubbs> looks clean :/ argh
[18:42] <chrisstubbs> im going to go and have some dinner, be back in a bit
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[18:43] <arko> morningish
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[18:43] <cjdavies> possibly a slightly odd question - if I have logged a GPS route & compared it against the actual route & the Hausdorff distance (largest distance between the two tracks) is <x> degrees, is it 'right' to express that <x> degrees as a certain number of N/S &/or E/W inaccuracy?
[18:45] <cjdavies> for example, I've calculated a Hausdorff distance of 1.02E-04 degrees, where 1 degree at this location is 111347m lat & 61843m long - can I say 'there is 11m N/S inaccuracy & 6m E/W inaccuracy'?
[18:45] <cjdavies> or is that misinterpreting the relationship between degrees & metres?
[18:45] <eroomde> degrees mean different things depending on whether they're latitude or longitude
[18:45] <eroomde> they're fixed in latitudes, variable in longitude
[18:45] <eroomde> i'd just get everything into a sensible unit as soon as possible
[18:46] <eroomde> like eulcidean distance in metres
[18:46] <eroomde> then you can give an RMS which is universally understood
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> though east/west and north/south difference may be different
[18:47] <eroomde> what i mean by variable is that the euclidean distance is variable between degrees longitude, depending on your latitude
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> accuracy wise
[18:47] <eroomde> being 10 degrees east of where you think you at at the equator might be a thousand miles
[18:47] <eroomde> being 10 degrees east of where you think you are at the south pole might be 20cm
[18:48] <cjdavies> I'm working on a much smaller scale here - essentially I'm trying to find the best way to express the 'difference' between these 3 routes --> http://cjdavies.org/shimmie/index.php?q=/post/view/100
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> meters RMS
[18:49] <cjdavies> blue is what I planned, red & green are from 2x different GPS receivers
[18:49] <eroomde> agreed
[18:49] <cjdavies> okay, any pointers to reading about how to calculate meters RMS?
[18:49] <eroomde> definitely meters rms
[18:49] <cjdavies> I have these tracks in a PostGIS database atm
[18:49] <cjdavies> which is how I easily calculated Hausdorff
[18:49] <eroomde> find the error in meters at a given point
[18:49] <eroomde> presumably the logs are timestamped?
[18:49] <cjdavies> timestamped yes, but they weren't taken at the same time IIRC
[18:50] <eroomde> so for each time, find the distance in meters between one point and the other two
[18:50] <cjdavies> I think one was the following day
[18:50] <eroomde> square all those distances so they're all positive
[18:50] <eroomde> take the average
[18:50] <cjdavies> also, the frequency of points is much higher for one
[18:50] <eroomde> take the square room of that average
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> closest is unfortunately going to be a pain
[18:50] <eroomde> you have the rMS
[18:50] <Randomskk> cjdavies: getting a good "similarity" metric is going to be hard
[18:50] <Randomskk> it's annoying
[18:50] <eroomde> well, you need to find some basis to compare a given point with another given point
[18:50] <Randomskk> you can't just do it pointwise as eroomde suggests
[18:50] <Randomskk> due to sampling
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> if you know where all the positions are 'really' - then it's easy
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> but...
[18:50] <Randomskk> if one GPS unit is half a second out of phase
[18:51] <Randomskk> then you'll be adding up a ton of distance error
[18:51] <Randomskk> as every point will have an error of like half your speed
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[18:51] <cjdavies> yeah, time can't be used, I'm pretty sure I took one on a different day to the other
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> the red GPS is nasty
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> it's sticking in velocity
[18:52] <Randomskk> PostGIS can do better things
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> so you get corrections
[18:52] <Randomskk> you want to project one polyline onto the other really
[18:52] <Randomskk> so you can usefully do distance without caring about the points
[18:52] <cjdavies> I have all the data in PostGIS so anything that PostGIS can do for me by magic would be swell ;)
[18:52] <Randomskk> unfortunately last time I tried this I didn't see anything obvious PostGIS can just do by magic
[18:52] <eroomde> the sampling phase issue is not a problem in theory
[18:53] <Randomskk> eroomde: only if you essentially resample or find the distance to the line
[18:53] <eroomde> or rather, it's a solved problem in that you just interpolate and resample them all at the same time
[18:53] <Randomskk> my point is that you can't just use the distance between equivalent points
[18:53] <Randomskk> yes
[18:53] <Randomskk> well- maybe
[18:53] <Randomskk> it depends on if you care about speed
[18:53] <Randomskk> if one thing follows the trace at twice the speed of the original trace, is that good or bad?
[18:53] <cjdavies> so, Hausdorff simply gives me the biggest distance between the routes, but doesn't compare the 'sameness' of the routes overall, right?
[18:53] <Randomskk> if you resample on a constant x/y grid without care to speed you'll get a pure distance similarity
[18:54] <cjdavies> so Hausdorff just locks onto that bit where the red route goes a bit whacko
[18:54] <Randomskk> if you resample in time you'll get a speed related metric too
[18:54] <cjdavies> speed is meaningless here, it's just position that matters
[18:54] <eroomde> what is your cost cjdavies? what are you trying to conclude/decide with this comparison?
[18:55] <cjdavies> eroomde: I'm simply trying to find out how 'close' to the planned route two different receivers were
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> that's easier
[18:55] <cjdavies> one being a phone (snapdragon s4 w/ gpsOne Gen 8A) the other being a MAX-6 from a guy on here
[18:55] <eroomde> ah right. i'd probably get the toal distance of the ideal route
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hey mclane
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> for every point, work out the closest distance to the track
[18:55] <eroomde> total distance of the sampled route
[18:55] <cjdavies> aaaaah, yes, distance, wtf did I not think of that?!
[18:55] <eroomde> er, gps route*
[18:56] <Randomskk> distance has issues
[18:56] <eroomde> make them the same legnth, then just calc the euclidean distance every 1m along each path, or so
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> sum the square of those distances
[18:56] <Randomskk> even very slightly noisier receivers will have much larger total distances
[18:56] <eroomde> hence 'make them the same length'
[18:56] <eroomde> they're noisy samples of the model path
[18:57] <Randomskk> how do you propose to do that?
[18:57] <cjdavies> I'd love to know :)
[18:58] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> working with 'cooked' data is a pain.
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[18:58] <cjdavies> thus why I was hopinh that PostGIS had some nice abstraction to do it for me :(
[18:59] <eroomde> well, i guess it depends on the noise, but you can do sampling at normalised intervals
[18:59] <eroomde> so just fit 1000 samples to it say
[19:00] <Randomskk> but the noise is per-sample, so if you are trying to be speed-independent you'll have further issues
[19:00] <cjdavies> what intervals though? because the samples aren't timestamped & there are a different number of samples in each set
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> also, be careful about assuming that maps are accurate
[19:00] <cjdavies> I mean, the planned route is literally only 20 points or so, whilst the red one is hundreds
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> also, working out wjetre the GPS is on the phone.
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> if it was pointing down, the measured performance is way suboptimal
[19:01] <eroomde> you're quite right i was assuming uncorrelated noise
[19:02] <eroomde> cjdavies: but your question is answered by interpolation and resample
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> the noise is not Gaussian
[19:02] <eroomde> that's not the answer to the problem of how to compare these paths, its the answer to the problem of 20 points in one vs 1000 in the other
[19:02] <Randomskk> but really, on PostGIS you probably don't need to do that
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> it's the result of a nasty internal filter, and has really odd spectra usually
[19:03] <Randomskk> as PostGIS has the concept of a polyline
[19:03] <Randomskk> so you actually do just have a piecewise linear line
[19:03] <Randomskk> regardless of its control points
[19:04] <cjdavies> so what I want to do is take regular intervals along the 'planned' route & for each one calculate the shortest distance to each of the receiver routes, then I can do regular stats on those?
[19:05] <cjdavies> I can get the max & min easily in PostGIS but have no idea how to go about making it sample at regular points along the polyline
[19:05] <cjdavies> especially for points that are projected, between real points
[19:05] <eroomde> but what's the 'distance' from a point on the ideal route to one of the gps lines?
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[19:05] <eroomde> how do you know which bit of the line to go to?
[19:05] <eroomde> this is the question we're trying to answer^
[19:06] <cjdavies> surely you just want the smallest distance to a point on the other line?
[19:06] <Randomskk> not always
[19:06] <eroomde> that might be a completely different bit
[19:07] <eroomde> imagine you did a walk where you walked 100m in a straight line, turned around, walked back again the same 100m to the start point
[19:07] <eroomde> in your algorithm, at 50m on the way out on the ideal line, the nearest bit of gps line might be from the path on the way back
[19:07] <eroomde> it might just happen to be closer than the bit of line on thw way out
[19:07] <eroomde> but you obviously don;t want that
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[19:08] <cjdavies> true
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[19:08] <eroomde> this is why the lack of time stamping makes it tricksie
[19:08] <cjdavies> too late to go do it again I'm afraid
[19:08] <Randomskk> it's odd that you don't have any tiemstamps
[19:08] <Randomskk> do you not even know the sampling interval?
[19:09] <cjdavies> this is literally the data that I'm working with --> http://paste2.org/p/3389928
[19:10] <cuddykid> hexacopter looks like it's ready to fly again :) hopefully have an outing tomorrow if the wind holds off
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[19:14] <cjdavies> hm, anybody know how ST_DFullyWithin works?
[19:14] <cjdavies> "Returns true if the geometries is fully within the specified distance of one another."
[19:15] <gb73d> http://www.tsenki.com/en/broadcast/
[19:15] <eroomde> Randomskk: I finished my logger!
[19:15] <gb73d> for manned soyuz launxch video 2043 utc
[19:15] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/i1E2guE.jpg
[19:15] <Randomskk> oh, wow
[19:15] <Randomskk> that's lovely
[19:16] <Randomskk> something very pleasing about that level of repetition
[19:16] <eroomde> yes
[19:16] <eroomde> it massages an inner something
[19:16] <Randomskk> that's an absolute ton of parts, too
[19:16] <fsphil> does it have many das blinkinlights?
[19:16] <Randomskk> but I guess if you gotta measure 32 pressures, you gotta measure 32 pressures.
[19:16] <eroomde> yes, i have picked and placed a very large number of components in the last 4 days
[19:16] <eroomde> fsphil: tonnes
[19:16] <fsphil> perfect
[19:16] <eroomde> you can see the adc cards on the right stack and 3 power ones each on the near edge
[19:17] <eroomde> the sensor cards have one each
[19:17] <eroomde> and the ethernet board has 2 for power, 2 general purpose, and 6 for ethernet
[19:17] <eroomde> it will be a disco
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[19:17] <cjdavies> I don't know what it is, but it's beautiful :)
[19:17] <Randomskk> now you get to write the software huh ;)
[19:17] <eroomde> sadly
[19:17] <eroomde> well it's half written
[19:17] <eroomde> got a decent way on the xplain
[19:18] <eroomde> should be able to get it running by the end of tuesday
[19:18] <fsphil> the inward facing header could be annoying
[19:18] <eroomde> that's just for debug
[19:18] <eroomde> not really needed 90% of the time
[19:18] <fsphil> ah then not a problem
[19:18] <eroomde> just breaking out a spare uart Just Incase (tm)
[19:18] <eroomde> cjdavies: it's a 32-channel pressure logger
[19:18] <eroomde> for some research
[19:18] <fsphil> one of the parts tombstone?
[19:19] <eroomde> well, the right hand stacks is generic adc cards and reference supplies, the left hand side holds the sensors and interfaces them to the generic inputs
[19:19] <cjdavies> damn, can't seem to get ST_DFullyWithin to return anything, not even an error :/
[19:19] <cjdavies> 1 empty row
[19:19] <eroomde> fsphil: good spot!
[19:19] <eroomde> by the mosfet
[19:19] <eroomde> totally missed that
[19:21] <fsphil> I like the way you've arranged the caps around that IC (ethernet?)
[19:21] <eroomde> the diagonal ones?
[19:21] <eroomde> it sort of made sense from a layout pov, that it is aethetically pleasing is a happy bonus
[19:21] <fsphil> yea
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> I have not found any solder bridges that could be causing my short circuit. I am reading a resistance of 5 ohms between gnd and the output of my voltage regulator
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> seems too high resistance to be a simple solder short
[19:22] <eroomde> have you done dangerous things like connect a power supply to it with a 1amp current limit?
[19:22] <eroomde> just to blast it to pieces if it's a whisker
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> if anyone has any thoughts that would be much appreciated. becuase im stuck
[19:22] <eroomde> i do that as a final straw
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> i thought about that
[19:22] <eroomde> usually after lifting componetns off with a hot air gun
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> ugh if i have to take that ublox back off...
[19:23] <Randomskk> could be a schematic error
[19:23] <Randomskk> have you made this before?
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> i would prefer to avoid it :P
[19:23] <Randomskk> e.g. connecting Vss to +v and Vdd to -v might lead to a couple ohms short
[19:24] <fsphil> would you get less resistance measuring vcc and gnd closer to the short?
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> Randomskk, the board worked perfectly before i added the ublox and chip antenna
[19:24] <Randomskk> yes, but you need a sensitive ohmmeter
[19:24] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: well those would be the first places to look then ;)
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> the chip ran and the rfm22b worked
[19:24] <Randomskk> got any vias under the ublox that might be touching exposed copper?
[19:25] <eroomde> time for steak. happy easter alles
[19:25] <fsphil> enjoy
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> Randomskk, that could be the case
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> looks like the only way is to take off the ublox now
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> well why not, hot air time. be back in a bit
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> hope i dont desolder all the other components in the process
[19:37] <cjdavies> wait, whut... I've changed nothing with my syntax & now it seems to work...
[19:37] Action: cjdavies thinks the postgres gods are toying with him
[19:39] <cjdavies> right, so this might be useful actually - st_dfullywithin tells me whether a pair of geometries are 'within the specified distance of each other'
[19:39] <cjdavies> now to think of how this might be useful to me
[19:41] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e0189d1996672cb60f1ccab74614c42adf79a17e
[19:41] <arko> yessss
[19:41] <arko> lookin good
[19:43] <cjdavies> hm, mayhaps this won't help me, because it will just return true up until I specify the distance as the Haausdorff between the two sets...
[19:44] <fsphil> now would be a good time for me to launch if I wanted to land in the Isle of Man: http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
[19:44] <fsphil> in/on
[19:47] <cjdavies> anybody heard of the Fréchet distance?
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[19:49] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: it's about seventeen feet deep in snow
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, so that John Ackroyd could mail it back?
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-21926357
[19:50] <fsphil> similar story on the east coast here
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> few inches rapidly melting generally here
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> it was 'snowing' for most of yesterday
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> with about one flake of really big fluffy snow per ten square meters a second.
[19:54] <fsphil> quite a lot of snow last night here, but all gone now. actually a very nice day
[19:54] <fsphil> sunshine for the most part
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> grr.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> I have purchased items off a website., and been able to access them online for about ten years
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> fictionwise.com
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> then they give one month notice, and I happen to miss the email, as it was sent over Christmas, and shut the site.
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> removed ublox and now there is no more short!
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> with about a couple of hundreds quid worth of purchased content.
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> perhaps ground plane under the ublox was a bad idea?
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> there goes my reluctance to do warez.
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: solder msdk?
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> mask
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> nope :( home etched!
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> SpeedEvil, ugh companies!
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> you can get laminate on solder mask
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> hmmmm
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[20:00] <chrisstubbs> im tempted to just etch a breakout board tommorow for the GPS
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> and connect the power and data using wires
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> its that or i could try and cut away the gnd plane under it and lift it off
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> or put some rape on it
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> tape
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> yeah i thought that, but would it lift the ublox too high off the PCB to solder
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> i could use kapton tape
[20:09] <arko> found something fun just now
[20:09] <arko> doing some radio interference testing
[20:09] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYOmlXtCVME
[20:09] <arko> remember kids, shield your electronics
[20:10] <arko> or design it so it doesnt need it
[20:10] <arko> :P
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[20:11] <chrisstubbs> oh dear!
[20:11] <arko> took the day off work today to finalize the payload :)
[20:11] <arko> can't wait for the weekend
[20:14] <gb73d> http://bit.ly/11Rb5qv
[20:14] <gb73d> 28 mins to launch
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[20:17] <chrisstubbs> arko all set to go?
[20:17] <arko> yep!
[20:17] <arko> gb73d: good luck!!
[20:18] <arko> i just clicked the link
[20:18] <arko> haha
[20:18] <arko> i thought it was a hab
[20:19] <x-f> it's a HAV at best
[20:19] <fsphil> the HA part is correct
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko and x-f
[20:28] <x-f> hi, LL
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[20:29] <x-f> cold!
[20:30] <x-f> just got in, was watching the comet and Jupiter outside
[20:30] <fsphil> is the comet visible without optics?
[20:31] <x-f> no, not anymore, i saw it with binocs and on photos
[20:31] <arko> sup lunar
[20:31] <x-f> it is dim, but still there, now with a vertical tail
[20:32] <LokisSword> hah running random predictions from areas around me, 2 landed in lakes / ponds, the other on the M1
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah germany has SNOW again
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[20:36] <x-f> let's hope it will melt slowly and not cause any flooding
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[20:41] <x-f> T-3 minutes and counting
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[20:47] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
[20:49] M0TVU (d9290680@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.41.6.128) joined #highaltitude.
[20:49] <M0TVU> Evening
[20:49] <M0TVU> Tonights mystery question
[20:49] <Willdude123> Evening all.
[20:50] <M0TVU> I have the CRC worked out and being generated. It's stored in a WORD value. How can I convert that word 6F12 to ascii
[20:50] <SP9UOB_Tom> printf ("word %04x",word);
[20:51] <M0TVU> explain the syntax please that's an alien language
[20:51] <jonsowman> are you doing this on an avr?
[20:52] <jonsowman> sprintf might be more useful for you
[20:52] <M0TVU> No its a pic
[20:52] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU: please read info about printf formatting - %04x means put hex value on 4 characters (or more) preceding with 0-s
[20:53] <jonsowman> okay, do you have a char buffer that you're writing your telemetry to before transmitting?
[20:53] <M0TVU> I don't use printf
[20:53] <SP9UOB_Tom> m0TVU - Thames Valley University ?
[20:53] <jonsowman> M0TVU: (s)printf will do what you need
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[20:53] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU: so You must do it step by step :-) split word into nibbles and convert to asci representation
[20:53] <jonsowman> (also use %04X because capitals)
[20:54] <SP9UOB_Tom> jonsowman: right
[20:54] <jonsowman> hehe
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[20:55] <M0TVU_> I'm back it crapped out then sorry
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> 1 char MSB - (word&0xf000) + '0'
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> hey SP9UOB_Tom
[20:55] <M0TVU_> Sorry missed all that the chat dies
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> 2nd char (word&0x0f00) + '0'
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> and so on
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[20:55] <chrisstubbs> WHOOOO ublox removed, ground plane destroyed, ublox reattached and i have NMEA! :D
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> x-f, what was the countdown for btw?
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> sorry
[20:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> i forgot about shift :-)
[20:55] <jonsowman> nice one chrisstubbs
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[20:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> 2nd char (word&0x0f00)>>12L + '0'
[20:56] <M0TVU_> Sorry guys I missed all the previous chat
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> ran out of flux, so the soldering is.... untidy...
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[20:56] <M0TVU_> Can you start again
[20:57] <SP9UOB_Tom> argh
[20:57] <M0TVU_> IRC died on me
[20:57] <M0TVU_> I have CRC = 6F12
[20:57] <SP9UOB_Tom> 1st char (word&0xf000)>>12L + '0'
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[20:57] <M0TVU_> You'll need to explain the syntax
[20:58] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, it was for manned Soyuz launch to the ISS
[20:58] <jonsowman> M0TVU_: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20130328
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> did it work?
[20:59] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: its hard to explain for me - english is not my primary language :-)
[20:59] <x-f> yes, all went well
[20:59] <M0TVU_> split to nibbles ok
[21:00] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: what endianess is Your enviroment ?
[21:01] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: what endianess is in Your enviroment ?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> that is the thing
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> Physics brings you to orbit in 12 minutes
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:01] <M0TVU_> endianess?
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[21:02] <SP9UOB_Tom> byte order in word - how is represented Your value in memory ?
[21:02] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness
[21:02] <M0TVU_> oh I see
[21:02] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: physics, and lots and lots of money
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:03] <fsphil> if it was just physics, we'd all be doing it :)
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> and not shows like beauty and the nerd on crap TV
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> no
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> these women who don't know physics from the show
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> they won't do it I think
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:03] <fsphil> this is true
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[21:08] anerDev (~anerDev@93-58-92-157.ip157.fastwebnet.it) joined #highaltitude.
[21:08] <anerDev> hey hey guys !
[21:08] <anerDev> =D
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[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: i did Your homework :-)
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> [verox@matrix devel]$ ./split
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> value = abcd, converted = ABCD
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> int main() {
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> unsigned int crc=0xabcd;
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> unsigned char q,w,e,r;
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> q = ((crc>>12L)&0x0f);
[21:17] <SP9UOB_Tom> w = ((crc>> 8L)&0x0f);
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[21:18] <x-f> welcome back
[21:18] <x-f> SP9UOB_Tom, your flight next week - do i have any chance hearing it, will it be on a band that works beyond the horizon?
[21:18] <SP9UOB_Tom> ups - sorry :-)
[21:18] <Upu> evening
[21:19] <x-f> evening
[21:19] <SP9UOB_Tom> x-f: should be receivable - we are launching from central Poland - Wloclawek
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[21:19] <SP9UOB_Tom> x-f: also 1 Watt output :-)
[21:19] <Upu> hey Luanr
[21:19] <M0TVU_> crc >> 12L ?
[21:20] <x-f> SP9UOB_Tom, another 100g?
[21:20] <M0TVU_> shift right crc 12 but what is the L
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[21:20] <x-f> L for "long" datatype
[21:21] <M0TVU_> ok
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, how are you today?
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[21:22] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/split.c
[21:22] <SP9UOB_Tom> stupid irc :-)
[21:23] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: got it ?
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Evening Upu
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[21:23] <M0TVU_> No
[21:24] <M0TVU_> It's a weird alien language
[21:24] <chrisstubbs> hey lunar :)
[21:24] <M0TVU_> I really hate C
[21:24] <SP9UOB_Tom> ...and You want to write tracker ?
[21:25] <x-f> you can make a payload in *cough* .net *cough*
[21:25] <jonsowman> C is lovely
[21:25] <jonsowman> :p
[21:25] <SP9UOB_Tom> >> is shift operator - shift n bits right
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> yeah the principles in C can be applied to most things
[21:26] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb_
[21:26] <M0TVU_> I just need to know the principles
[21:26] <mattbrejza> does >>> exist in c?
[21:26] <M0TVU_> Everyting is working I just can't pass the word variable through by byte converter
[21:26] <M0TVU_> I need to break the byte in bits
[21:26] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: what language are You programming in ?
[21:27] <M0TVU_> Pic Basic
[21:27] <M0TVU_> You can get up now
[21:27] <jonsowman> M0TVU_: picaxe?
[21:27] <Upu> pls say pixaxe...
[21:27] <Upu> pls pls
[21:27] <M0TVU_> pic 16f648A
[21:28] <SP9UOB_Tom> Sorry - i cant help You - last time i was programming in basic was 28 years ago on ZX-spectrum
[21:28] <M0TVU_> Me too except and 10 years on
[21:28] <M0TVU_> add*
[21:29] <M0TVU_> and try a ZX80
[21:29] <M0TVU_> If you can break apart the syntax anyting is possible
[21:29] <SP9UOB_Tom> i was 10 years ago :-)
[21:29] <SP9UOB_Tom> i was 10 years age :-)
[21:29] <SP9UOB_Tom> old
[21:30] <SP9UOB_Tom> english is strange :-)
[21:30] <M0TVU_> I want someone to write a cobol compiler for PIC
[21:30] <jonsowman> SP9UOB_Tom: yeah, C is nothing compared to english
[21:31] <SP9UOB_Tom> jonsowman: try to learn polish :-) or Chinese ;-)
[21:31] <jonsowman> I don't think that'd go wel
[21:31] <jonsowman> *well
[21:31] <M0TVU_> Easy I can speak chinese
[21:32] <M0TVU_> tow jo day ei
[21:32] <M0TVU_> = told you didn't I
[21:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: mee too - bot noone can understood me :-)
[21:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> but
[21:33] <M0TVU_> right back to coding. Almost there
[21:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: get the word
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[21:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU_: divide it by 4096
[21:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> (equal to shift 10 bits right)
[21:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> (equal to shift 12 bits right)
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> Partial success on my ublox! Its getting signals from sats but only in blue in u-center: http://youtu.be/Ry5unnhz5FI
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> I hope it just needs longer for a fix, left it out there for about 15 mins
[21:36] <SP9UOB_Tom> then add 0x30 (if result is <9) else add 0x37
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[21:36] <SP9UOB_Tom> and You have MSB
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[21:38] <SP9UOB_Tom> and so on
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, got a moment?
[21:54] M0TVU (d9290680@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.41.6.128) joined #highaltitude.
[21:54] <M0TVU> IRC keeps crashing on me tonight :-(
[21:54] <M0TVU> The solution is ....
[21:55] <M0TVU> http://pastie.org/7155481
[21:55] <griffonbot> @NSEballoon: Ublox came at last and is giving an output on the board. Taking a long time to get a fix but fingers crossed! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/NSEballoon/status/317394483815776258]
[21:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU: It's a weird alien language
[21:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> :-)
[21:56] <M0TVU> pmsl
[21:56] <M0TVU> it bloody works and that's all that matters right now
[21:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU: so You ove me pizza :-)
[21:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> M0TVU: so You owe me pizza :-)
[21:57] <M0TVU> I owe a lot of pizza on this project
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> M0TVU congrats :)
[21:57] <M0TVU> I hope to test witht he dl-figdldhkgsgsa thingy wossit tomorrow
[21:58] <M0TVU> No flight or anything. I can see the rtty with DM-780 and the construct looks right etc ... I want to check the CRC and see if I can get plotted on the map
[21:59] <M0TVU> I think I have to make a payload doc though first
[21:59] <M0TVU> or something like that
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[22:17] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening :)
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[22:17] <chrisstubbs> Evening ibanezmatt13
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> I have been trying to make my own python code for reading NMEA strings from a Ublox 6 GPS and sending it to an NTX2 radio transmitter using the Raspberry Pi's hardware serial https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5264374
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> on the right lines?
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> I guess the part that will need modifying is the while loop part, I pretty much guessed the timing
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[22:22] <chrisstubbs> ahhh python :(
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> is there not a library you could use?
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> for GPS
[22:23] <ibanezmatt13> i'm not sure. there might be. will that not work?
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[22:25] <chrisstubbs> Just might save you reinventing the wheel when it comes to parse the NMEA. Im not into python im afraid so i cant confirm if that would work
[22:26] <ibanezmatt13> ok. the reason i am sticking with nmea is because the PUBX side of things is a little tricky for my current standard. What would nmea actually return?
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[22:27] <chrisstubbs> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#stream
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> a little like that
[22:27] <ibanezmatt13> thanks chrisstubs I'll take a look
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/ is a great NMEA resource
[22:29] <ibanezmatt13> so when I simply read the gps, it will return one of these NMEA sentences which I will have to parse?
[22:31] <ibanezmatt13> is there no simple way of just obtaining certain data from the gps? Say I only needed lat, lon and alt. Is there a way to do that?
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> the NMEA is sent out every second or so from the GPS. you would have to reacd each charecter in the string from the serial port into a string, check if it is the $GPGGA string, then split the data around the commas to get the lat and long
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> If a lib for python GPS exists that would already be done for you
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> there must be one. what do you mean that it will already be done?
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> it will handle the serial port and nmea for you, you would just tell it what serial port to use, then retrive the lat/long from it in your code
[22:34] <ibanezmatt13> i see. I'll have a look
[22:35] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course, there is a gps library for python! it's called gpsd. I remember now
[22:35] <Randomskk> uhm
[22:35] <Randomskk> well, gpsd will work
[22:35] <Randomskk> it's not a gps library for python
[22:36] <Randomskk> it's a totally separate server that can run on your rpi and talk to the gps and then python can talk to it
[22:36] <Randomskk> might be overkill but in any event would work
[22:36] <ibanezmatt13> we're just trying to figure a way of obtaining certain info from a gps module 'simply'
[22:36] <Randomskk> it doesn't get much simpler than just reading an nmea sentence and parsing it
[22:36] <Randomskk> this is python
[22:36] <Randomskk> it's like not a problem
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> Yes gpsd would help. if you can get some example code for it working then it should make sense and you can edit it to do what you want
[22:37] <ibanezmatt13> the nmea would be easiest I think. How would I parse an NMEA sentence
[22:37] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5264374 this is what i thought of
[22:37] <Randomskk> like uhm
[22:38] <Randomskk> two things
[22:38] <Randomskk> well many things but
[22:38] <Randomskk> you are going to need to actually parse that NMEA sentence
[22:38] <Randomskk> and check it's the sentence you want etc
[22:38] <Randomskk> it's wasteful to keep reopening the serial port and you don't even close it so that will probably break
[22:38] <Randomskk> just open each port once and leave it open
[22:39] <Randomskk> the sleep(1) between reading gps and sending is a bit pointless
[22:39] <Randomskk> https://gist.github.com/adamgreig/479637 is something dodgy I cooked up in a few minutes in the chase car so we could upload positions
[22:39] <Randomskk> but it gives you an idea maybe
[22:39] <ibanezmatt13> so how will i differentiate between sending to the transmitter and reading gps?
[22:39] <Randomskk> uhm
[22:40] <Randomskk> because gps is not the same as ser, in your code
[22:40] <Randomskk> uh, radio
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> Randomskk, wow i have some respect for python. that code is nice and simple!
[22:40] <Randomskk> you say gps = serial.Serial("/dev/tty/AMA0", 9600, timeout=1)
[22:40] <Randomskk> radio = serial.Serial("/dev/tty/AMA0", 300)
[22:40] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[22:40] <Randomskk> gps.read()
[22:40] <Randomskk> radio.write()
[22:40] <ibanezmatt13> only to differentiate
[22:40] <Randomskk> they are separate things
[22:40] <Randomskk> you can have more than one serial port open at once
[22:41] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, are you planning on connecting the GPS and NTX2 to the same serial port?
[22:41] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: that's really quite gnarly and messy python, at that. it was literally a ten minute bodge job to get something working in the car
[22:41] <ibanezmatt13> when i set up the serial and the baud rate, do i not need to do this in the loop? chrisstubs: yes
[22:41] <Randomskk> oh, huh
[22:41] <Randomskk> hm
[22:41] <Randomskk> yea that might not work with both on the same port...
[22:42] <Randomskk> in which case gps.close() radio=serial.Serial("..", 300)
[22:42] <Randomskk> close one before reopening
[22:42] <ibanezmatt13> i see
[22:43] <ibanezmatt13> that's not too hard to do, ill do that now. subject change, watching sky news at the moment, north korea is about to vaporise
[22:43] <ibanezmatt13> they have ordered fire on south pacific us bases
[22:44] <Randomskk> what?!
[22:44] <ibanezmatt13> exactly!
[22:44] <ibanezmatt13> http://news.sky.com/
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> look at the main headline
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> North Korea's leader has told rocket units to go on standby for an attack on US bases, according to state media.
[22:45] <Randomskk> oh man
[22:45] <Randomskk> why would they do that
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> yep, crazy stuff
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> stupid
[22:47] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5264374
[22:47] <ibanezmatt13> i've updated it slightly
[22:48] <ibanezmatt13> with regards to the 1 seconds pauses, if i got rid completely of the time delays, would it not completely freeze my syetem?
[22:48] <ibanezmatt13> i was thinking of some sort of delay
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[22:49] <Randomskk> reading and writing on the serial port is already quite a slow procedure. the delay between sentences is reasonable but there's not much point having one between reading the GPS and transmitting
[22:49] <Randomskk> so that's better but I mean
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps one after transmitting, say three seconds
[22:49] <Randomskk> you still have to do something with the sentence that you read and transmit a new one
[22:49] <Randomskk> so like
[22:50] <Randomskk> you want to keep reading a line from the GPS until you get one that starts $GPRMC, then check that the GPS has a lock (the third field will be 'A' without lock)
[22:50] <Randomskk> then extract the latitude, longitude and altitude (I think the altitude may require another sentence... I can't remember)
[22:50] <Randomskk> GPGGA perhaps
[22:50] <ibanezmatt13> i see, that doesn't sound easy
[22:50] <Randomskk> then build a new sentence for transmission
[22:50] <Randomskk> like $$CALLSIGN,message_id,time,lat,lng,alt*CHECKSUM
[22:50] <Randomskk> it's pretty easy really, I promise
[22:51] <Randomskk> see that gist I linked
[22:51] <Randomskk> in python it's easy anyway
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[22:51] <ibanezmatt13> ill take a look at it
[22:51] <Randomskk> you want to do something like
[22:52] <Randomskk> inside the read_gps, loop forever, each loop read a sentence, if it starts $GPGGA then split it into fields by commas, check the third field for not being 'A', extract deg/mins lat/lng from their respective fields and altitude from its, then return (lat, lng, alt) from the function
[22:52] <Randomskk> then in send_gps (maybe rename it to transmit_sentence or something), you want to build up a sentence like $$callsign,45,22:52:44,52.1234,-0.0213,344*ABCD
[22:53] <ibanezmatt13> ah i see, thanks, that makes sense
[22:53] <Randomskk> where 45 is some integer that goes up, 22:52:44 is the time (from GPS or the local system, whatever)
[22:53] <Randomskk> 52.1234 is the latitude in decimal degrees (you will need to convert from the degrees-and-minutes formati n the NMEA)
[22:53] <Randomskk> 344 is the altitude
[22:53] <Randomskk> and ABCD is a crc16 checksum
[22:53] <Randomskk> happily this being python the checksum is also very easy to compute
[22:53] <Randomskk> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat/blob/develop/habitat/utils/checksums.py has a reference for the CRC16 checksum we use (the crc16_ccitt function there)
[22:54] <ibanezmatt13> thanks ill take a look
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[22:55] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that part confuses me a little but i understand what we are doing here
[22:56] <ibanezmatt13> how do you split the sentence into fields?
[22:57] <Randomskk> sentence.split(",")
[22:57] <ibanezmatt13> and what would that do exaclt
[22:57] <Randomskk> sentence = "a,b,c,d"
[22:58] <Randomskk> fields = sentence.split(",")
[22:58] <Randomskk> fields[0] == "a"
[22:58] <Randomskk> fields[1] == "b"
[22:58] <Randomskk> etc
[22:58] <ibanezmatt13> so why are we checking for the letter a
[22:58] <ibanezmatt13> ?
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[22:59] <Randomskk> because in GPRMA sentences the third field being 'A' means there is no lock
[22:59] <Randomskk> and you don't wanna transmit without lock
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[22:59] <ibanezmatt13> so wont the sentence be quite long? if we split it wont it be like [a, b, c, d ,e ,f ,r ,4, ,5 ......]
[23:01] <Randomskk> maybe I should have used a multi word example
[23:01] <Randomskk> sentence = "$GPRMA,2,V,52.1234,0.0123"
[23:01] <Randomskk> sentence.split(",")[0] = "$GPRMA"
[23:01] <Randomskk> it splits it by commas
[23:01] <Randomskk> because you put "," in the arguments to split
[23:02] <Randomskk> and I mean, it won't be any more data than the original sentence string was...
[23:02] <ibanezmatt13> oh i see, that makes a lot more sense. so that would split to individual arguments as opposed to characters
[23:02] <ibanezmatt13> of course
[23:03] <Randomskk> yes
[23:03] <Randomskk> splitting into characters is entirely pointless seeing as strings can already be accessed like "bla"[1] == "l"
[23:03] <Randomskk> strings basically are lists of characters
[23:03] <ibanezmatt13> is there a way to request a specific sentence. Say I wanted the GPGGA
[23:03] <Randomskk> no
[23:03] <Randomskk> it just sends
[23:03] <Randomskk> well I mean, it's a ublox, right
[23:03] <Randomskk> so you can do all sorts
[23:03] <ibanezmatt13> but you can check for it?
[23:03] <Randomskk> like turn off the stupid nmea stuff and manually request binary things and all sorts
[23:03] <Randomskk> which you'd probably do if you were using a microcontroller
[23:04] <Randomskk> but for this, it's by far easier to juse use the nmea
[23:04] <Randomskk> you can check for it - by receiving the whole sentence and seeing if the first few letters are what you want
[23:04] <ibanezmatt13> yes, I'm using a Pi but it's my first time using serial with a GPS
[23:04] <ibanezmatt13> so, split into a list and say, if element 1 in list == gpgga, then .......
[23:05] <Randomskk> yea
[23:05] <ibanezmatt13> ok, i understand
[23:07] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: rewritten a huge portion of the HABHUB code to become iPad portrait & landscape compatible. Almost ready to push v2.0 out #ukhas [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/317412650076213248]
[23:11] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Thanks for the help, I've learned so much this evening you have no idea! :D I'm going to rewrite my code with the info you've given me and I'll get back to you on it soon
[23:11] <Randomskk> sure :P
[23:11] <Randomskk> I'm away over the weekend but there are plenty of helpful people on here
[23:11] <Randomskk> good luck!
[23:12] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, have a nice easter
[23:12] <Randomskk> you too
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[23:13] <bubbu> I need to talk to someone who has done high altitude ballooning in Ontario.
[23:13] <Upu> hi Bubba
[23:13] <bubbu> Hi Upu :)
[23:13] <Upu> only Canadian I know is natrium42
[23:13] <bubbu> Upu, can you Skype?
[23:13] <Upu> nah
[23:13] <Upu> like java
[23:14] <Upu> not installed on my PC
[23:14] <bubbu> haha cool .. just had a few Q's
[23:14] <Upu> I'm not Canadian
[23:14] <Upu> well shoot
[23:14] <bubbu> That's okay, Canadians love everyone.
[23:14] <Upu> lets see what we can answer
[23:14] <Upu> lol
[23:14] <bubbu> Question 1: tracking methods in lamens terms please
[23:14] <Upu> 2 options I thinj
[23:14] <Upu> think
[23:14] <Upu> you'll have to check legislation
[23:15] <Upu> 1/ Using the radio amateur APRS network
[23:15] <bubbu> Legislation calls for an aircraft transponder, but they're bloody $2000
[23:15] <bubbu> and why do you need one on a high altitude balloon when there are other means of tracking
[23:15] <Upu> there are usually exemptions for meteorlogical balloons
[23:15] <Upu> but
[23:15] <Upu> you'll need to check that
[23:16] <Upu> 2/ In the UK we use the license exempt 70cms band (434Mhz)
[23:16] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[23:17] <Upu> best speak to Natrium I think
[23:18] <Upu> APRS coverage in Ontario looks non existent
[23:18] <bubbu> cool .. i'm new to the radio stuff, just recently learned about the APRS network..
[23:18] <bubbu> any suggested resources I can read to pick up more information about how to sift through the APRS?
[23:19] <Upu> well the coverage doesn't look great
[23:19] <Upu> http://rockblock.rock7mobile.com/
[23:19] <Upu> would be the best bet
[23:19] <bubbu> There are radio operators in my area, I was thinking about contacthing them to help with coverage/tracking
[23:20] <Upu> well if you can raise the troops
[23:20] <Upu> the protocol we use is very robust
[23:21] <Upu> also its probably the cheapest method
[23:21] <Willdude123> Hi.
[23:21] <bubbu> hey Willdude123!
[23:21] <bubbu> Okay, I need to read up on APRS.
[23:21] <Upu> and check coverage
[23:21] <Upu> are you a radio amateur ?
[23:23] <bubbu> I have a Radio Operator's License .. but no experience as a radio amateur, I am just starting out .
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> wb Upu
[23:23] <Upu> evening again lunar
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> do you have a moment?
[23:23] <Upu> well you will need to consider the legislation locally
[23:23] <Upu> sure ask on here if you want
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:23] <Upu> I'm not familiar with the Canadian legislation
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> I think I'll have the order of these two GPS the next days
[23:24] <Upu> ok cool I just got new stock
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> if you not switch to the ublox 7 of course :)
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:24] <Upu> nah they haven't come in yet
[23:24] <Upu> still MAX6's
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:24] <Upu> it doesn't make much difference unless you're pushing for long duration stuff
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:24] <Upu> and/or need 10hz updates
[23:24] <Upu> which HAB's don't need
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> are the 7 like less power consuming?
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:24] <Upu> yeah at 3.3v considerably so
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:24] <Upu> at 1.8v they are about the same as the MAX6G
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> got an idea
[23:25] <Upu> 5mA ....
[23:25] <Upu> which is insane low
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> maybe you can offer them with these 90° headers
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:25] <Upu> well you can put which ever headers on you you want
[23:25] <Upu> I would suggest you solder them for flight
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> as I did it
[23:26] <Upu> bite the bullet lunar, break out Eagle and make a PCB :)
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> I actually made a schematic
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't have all the breakout board sizes and stuff
[23:26] <Upu> 1/3rd of the way there
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[23:26] <Upu> header is just standard 2.54mm pitch header
[23:27] <Upu> however I meant solder the ublox direct to i
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[23:27] <Upu> it
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> like with SMD?
[23:27] <Upu> exactly like with SMD
[23:27] <Upu> its not that scary
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:27] <Upu> well ok the first few are
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> do you solder all the GPS yourself?
[23:27] <Upu> yeah
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:28] <Upu> first one took me about 15 mins
[23:28] <Upu> I can do one in about 1 min now
[23:28] <Upu> practice and all that
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:28] <Upu> flux
[23:28] <Upu> did you have other questions bubbu ? Might be able to answer those :)
[23:29] <Upu> natrium42 may be about in a few hours if you hang about
[23:31] <bubbu> I don't know where to start in terms of tracking this balloon.
[23:32] <Upu> none of the options are "easy"
[23:32] <Upu> probably RTTY is easiest
[23:32] <bubbu> say I went with APRS ..
[23:33] <Upu> slightly more complex
[23:33] <Upu> but you could just use a Trackuino
[23:33] <Upu> IF
[23:33] <Upu> its permitted and you hold an amateur radio license
[23:33] <Upu> also to consider is coverage
[23:33] <Upu> as once it gets close to the ground APRS won't be a good option
[23:33] <Upu> unless it lands right next to a digi or something
[23:34] <Upu> RTTY constantly transmits its location so anyone in range can pick it up
[23:34] <Upu> i.e you in the car
[23:34] <Upu> and you can zero in on it
[23:34] <bubbu> okay, what's a digi
[23:34] <Upu> digirepeater part of the APRS network
[23:34] <bubbu> what does it do?
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> it picks up transmitters and puts them on the internet
[23:35] <Upu> receives your balloons transmission and transfers the location information to the aprs network i.e http://aprs.fi
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[23:35] <Upu> Iridium is probably the most complex and expensive but will give location information anywhere it has a signal which should be literally anywhere
[23:36] <Upu> unless you land in water.. :)
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:36] <bubbu> okay, so basically a digirepeater takes a signal thats transmitted from the balloon and translates that into the form of tracking visually
[23:37] <bubbu> via aprs?
[23:37] <Upu> yeah check out http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2Fk6rpt-12&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[23:37] <Upu> K6RPT-12 was launched in California
[23:37] <KT5TK_QRL> In fact a digipeter just resends your packets to the next station. An Igate then actually transports them to the internet
[23:37] <Upu> sorry yes
[23:37] <Upu> thanks Thomas
[23:38] <Upu> We can't use APRS in the UK
[23:38] <bubbu> okay, what are stations?
[23:38] <Upu> radios that receive APRS packets and retransmit them
[23:38] <bubbu> and what's an igate look like?
[23:38] <KT5TK_QRL> You can check your APRS coverage if you just look up your location on aprs.fi
[23:38] <Upu> can be just a PC with a radio on it bubbu
[23:38] <KT5TK_QRL> and increase the time to say an hour
[23:39] <bubbu> this is me http://aprs.fi/#!addr=oakville
[23:39] <Upu> http://www.myhamshack.com/HamShackPictureviewer/4348/APRS-Igate-on-test-SP9LDU2.aspx
[23:39] <KT5TK_QRL> My igate uses a Raspberry pi and a normal 2m radio
[23:40] <KT5TK_QRL> and a KPC3 modem
[23:40] <bubbu> I see ther are guys in my area,
[23:40] <Upu> but you have to be a license amateur to use it
[23:40] <KT5TK_QRL> However, do you definitely have an amateur radio license?
[23:41] <bubbu> I have a RRestricted Operator Certificate With Aeronautical Qualification (ROC-A)
[23:41] <KT5TK_QRL> It's not difficult to get one, but you have to pass a test
[23:41] <KT5TK_QRL> That's not what you need for ham radio
[23:42] <Upu> btw Thomas
[23:42] <Upu> the RFM22B we use is EoL
[23:42] <Upu> so looks like we will be making a custom module
[23:42] <KT5TK_QRL> OMG this means you need to switch to Si446x?
[23:42] <bubbu> So I need a ham radio certificate or some sort
[23:42] <Upu> yup
[23:43] <KT5TK_QRL> That's probably the best way to go
[23:43] <Upu> I have a circuit which I'll pass by you some time as you and NigelVh seem to have done the most on it
[23:43] <bubbu> which is this http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/025.nsf/eng/home
[23:44] <KT5TK_QRL> yes
[23:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Try to get in touch with a amateur radio club
[23:45] <KT5TK_QRL> https://www.rac.ca/en/amateur-radio/clubs/
[23:45] <KT5TK_QRL> They can help you to get a license
[23:45] <KT5TK_QRL> Then APRS is no problem
[23:47] <KT5TK_QRL> The cheapest tracker you can get is probably a Open Tracker 1+ kit: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/025.nsf/eng/home
[23:47] <KT5TK_QRL> sorry
[23:47] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.argentdata.com/products/otplus.html
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[23:48] <KT5TK_QRL> for APRS
[23:48] <KT5TK_QRL> and you can attach a HX1 transmitter to it
[23:49] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.lemosint.com/radiometrix/radiometrix_details.php?itemID=209
[23:49] <Upu> *cough*
[23:49] <KT5TK_QRL> But you need a Ham license first
[23:49] <Upu> I'm cheaper :)
[23:49] <Upu> however I'm not officially allowed to sell in to US
[23:49] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, go with Upu :)
[23:50] <Upu> no one said anything about Canada though :)
[23:51] <KT5TK_QRL> I don't buy those modules anymore, so I don't care about their price atm
[23:51] <bubbu> haha thanks for that link, managed to get someone on the phone and referred to someone else.
[23:51] <bubbu> what's a good starting point for amateur radio in general?
[23:51] <KT5TK_QRL> Good.
[23:51] <bubbu> something for beginners like me
[23:51] <KT5TK_QRL> It took me about 3 hrs of learning to get my General US license
[23:52] <KT5TK_QRL> (though I had a German license before ;) )
[23:54] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm not familiar with procedures in canada, but likely there are some websites that have the question pools where you can learn the answers for the test
[23:54] <KT5TK_QRL> https://www.rac.ca/en/amateur-radio/beginner-info/
[23:59] <KT5TK_QRL> I think this is nice: http://www.va3ep.net/do-you-want-to-become-a-ham
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 29 2013