highaltitude.log.20130324

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[00:04] <mfa298> Spoz_: I can think of a couple of possible issues
[00:04] <mfa298> I think the delay functions struggle with larger numbers so you might need to have two shorter delays
[00:05] <mfa298> and is the arduino clocking at the frequency you think it is (less likely)
[00:06] <mfa298> this seems like one of those times owning a local analyser could be useful
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[00:15] <Spoz_> yeah I might go into the hackerspace and measure it on a scope
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[00:15] <Spoz_> the delays Im using are under the 16,000us limit or whatever it is for accuracy
[00:16] <Spoz_> seems to be constant across arduinos though
[00:16] <Spoz_> rather than a tolerance on the crystal for example
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[02:22] <creaoe> Hi lunar yes that was me!
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[03:20] <arko> hello
[03:20] <Spoz_> hi
[03:21] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/bdOta8x.jpg
[03:21] <arko> built this sucka today
[03:22] <Spoz_> nice :), no duct tape in sight!
[03:23] <arko> haha
[03:23] <arko> yeah
[03:24] <arko> i drilled and threaded it in
[03:24] <arko> with teflon
[03:24] <arko> then epoxy one side
[03:24] <arko> and pvc cement the other
[03:24] <arko> the pvc cement on the cap/tube connection
[03:24] <arko> fun build
[03:24] <Spoz_> nice
[03:25] <Spoz_> do you have many launches planned?
[03:25] <arko> well, for now, 2
[03:25] <arko> 1 is a week away
[03:25] <arko> im kinda worried on timing because i have lots of testing lined up
[03:26] <Spoz_> I know the feeling
[03:26] <arko> :P
[03:26] <arko> you guys launch same day right?
[03:26] <Spoz_> my last launch I was up still coding until 3am, then had to wake up at 5
[03:26] <arko> wow damn
[03:26] <Spoz_> yeah thats the plan, weather permitting
[03:28] <Spoz_> its a week out but the forecasts at this stage are not looking favourable
[03:29] <arko> yeah, i have no idea accurate the current predictions are
[03:29] <arko> so far we are close to lake
[03:29] <arko> otherwise pretty good
[03:30] <Spoz_> heh, mine plotted into a lake as well
[03:31] <Spoz_> its not that kind of accuracy Im worried about though, but the general wind direction
[03:31] <Spoz_> last time it was exactly west, which was perfect
[03:31] <Spoz_> now it's looking to be north-east, which takes us over cities and airforce bases...
[03:31] <Spoz_> so that means a lot of driving on launch day
[03:32] <arko> yikes
[03:32] <arko> where you launching again?
[03:32] <Spoz_> yeah we've been officially warned not to cross into the military areas (of which there are several)
[03:32] <Spoz_> brisbane, australia
[03:32] <arko> yikes
[03:32] <arko> yeah, dont mess with military
[03:32] <Spoz_> especially with a camera on board, thats a whole other string of federal offences if we do
[03:33] <arko> O_O
[03:33] <arko> im not sure about our laws on that >_>
[03:35] <Spoz_> theyd be similar, we usually get our laws from you guys
[03:36] <arko> oh that sucks
[03:36] <arko> :P
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[04:11] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/WqeLbWS.jpg
[04:11] <arko> that's our current prediction
[04:11] <arko> time window
[04:13] <Spoz_> cool
[04:13] <Spoz_> thats a long way
[04:13] <Spoz_> we're going to use heaps of helium to try to get a short flight
[04:14] <arko> heh, yeah, that's the thought at the moment
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[04:21] <Spoz_> cool
[04:21] <Spoz_> my track is totally different to yesterdays prediction, to be expected I guess
[04:21] <Spoz_> the last launch it was spot on from a week out
[04:22] <arko> yeah, i figure this will drift around
[04:23] <Spoz_> http://balloon.theredpaintings.com/predict.PNG
[04:24] <arko> woah it does a lot of squiggling
[04:25] <Spoz_> yes it didnt do that yesterday
[04:25] <Spoz_> be interesting to see how it changes
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[04:33] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/eoVB2fz.jpg
[04:33] <arko> neat
[04:35] <Spoz_> where are you getting your ascent and descent rates from?
[04:36] <arko> calculated/measured
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[05:41] <arko> damn it, it moved again
[05:41] <arko> now it's in Needles
[05:43] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b5bc35d08161bb1735f2b60bf63601a5c3fe8c92
[05:44] <Spoz_> heh mine too
[05:46] <Spoz_> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2c0d8fcd7e0638546d7afb6d758a77d48805898f
[05:46] <arko> wow Brisbane is far from Sydney
[05:46] <arko> its like SF to LA
[05:46] <Spoz_> a days drive
[05:46] <Spoz_> a year ago I drove from here to sydney, melbourne, adelaide and back
[05:46] <Spoz_> in a little honda civic
[05:46] <arko> wow 10 hours even worse
[05:47] <arko> i have a few friends in OZ
[05:47] <arko> how's the spiders and stuff?
[05:47] <Spoz_> we get lots of huntsman spiders, not so much at my house because we are next to a main road
[05:47] <Spoz_> the possums are the bigger problem, they eat my herb garden
[05:47] <arko> yikes
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[06:12] <Spoz> anyone seen any good antenna designs for a chase car?
[06:12] <Spoz> I have a dipole that worked ok last time, but not when the balloon was directly overhead obviously
[06:14] <arko> wait
[06:14] <arko> for the chase car?
[06:14] <arko> or payload?
[06:14] <Spoz> the chase cr
[06:14] <arko> dipole on the balloon is fine
[06:14] <arko> oh
[06:14] <Spoz> Ive got a monopole on the balloon
[06:14] <arko> just get a MR77
[06:14] <arko> diamond
[06:14] <arko> mag mount
[06:15] <arko> i have a center fed dipole
[06:15] <arko> for the balloon
[06:15] <arko> magmount for the car
[06:16] <Spoz> hm might be hard to get one by next weekend
[06:16] <arko> yike
[06:16] <arko> s
[06:16] <arko> man, this sucks, winds are too strong
[06:17] <arko> the launch/chase team need to drive 2 hours
[06:17] <arko> the recovery teams will be set and ready
[06:17] <arko> but still
[06:17] <Spoz> still got a week to revise that :)
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[06:17] <arko> lets hope the winds calm down a bit
[06:17] <arko> i wanted to keep radio contact till it touched down :/
[06:18] <Spoz> we managed to get a packet from 200m altitude from over 60km away last time
[06:19] <arko> nice
[06:19] <arko> did you have mountains?
[06:19] <Spoz> 200 metres minus however far it falls in 3 seconds
[06:19] <Spoz> no it was pretty flat
[06:19] <arko> yeah
[06:19] <arko> we dont have that :(
[06:19] <Spoz> we will have mountains next time
[06:20] <arko> fun!
[06:20] <Spoz> my go pro test is doing pretty well, 2.5 hours recording and still showing full battery
[06:20] <Spoz> I dont know how they cram so much into these things
[06:22] <Spoz> oh huh. it just turned off, turned it back on and its showing battery empty
[06:22] <Spoz> I guess the battery indicator doesnt update while recording :/
[06:23] <arko> yikes
[06:23] <arko> yeah
[06:23] <arko> my gopro has had similiar issues since the software update
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[06:38] <newuser123> hi
[06:38] <Spoz> hi
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[06:42] <arko> hello
[07:00] <arko> how long does it usually take to fill a balloon
[07:00] <arko> ?
[07:00] <arko> like 20 minutes?
[07:01] <Darkside> depends on the full speed
[07:01] <Spoz_> did mine in about 5
[07:01] <Spoz_> or less
[07:01] <arko> ok
[07:02] <Spoz_> I just used a welding regulator and opened it up until I started to worry the latex might tear
[07:02] <Spoz_> but after trying to break the recovered balloon Im convinced these things are pretty strong
[07:02] <Spoz_> super stretchy
[07:03] <arko> yeah
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[07:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Arko "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Annoucement - HABEX2 - 1700UTC March 30th, 2013 -
[07:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Arko "[UKHAS] Launch Annoucement - HABEX2 - 1700UTC March 30th, 2013 -
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[08:27] Action: Upu pats arko
[08:27] <Upu> "estimated rate of decent" 5.83 :)
[08:28] <Upu> I know we can import APRS info onto Spacenear.us but jcoxon's script no longer seems to work Arko
[08:28] <Upu> N6ARA-11 ?
[08:34] <jcoxon> morning Upu
[08:34] <Upu> morning
[08:35] <Upu> weathers nice :)
[08:35] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:35] <jcoxon> tis very snowy
[08:35] <Upu> 36km winds -2 and 2 feet of snow here
[08:35] <jcoxon> do you still have an eagle library for your custom stuff
[08:35] <Upu> yay
[08:35] <Upu> Yep
[08:35] <Upu> are you making a PCB ? :)
[08:35] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:36] <jcoxon> but not directly related to hab
[08:36] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries
[08:36] <jcoxon> thanks
[08:37] <Upu> if you're using the Sarantel use the new one
[08:37] <Upu> SL1252
[08:38] <Upu> I just pushed the latest one
[08:39] <Upu> has the very small SMD 18B20 and some other stuff in it
[08:39] <Upu> oh the keystone battery clips
[08:39] <Upu> for AA and AAA
[08:42] <jcoxon> Upu what do you use for the rfm22
[08:46] <jcoxon> found it
[08:48] <Upu> sparkfun
[08:48] <Upu> though the pads are quiite large
[08:48] <jcoxon> thats good
[08:48] <Upu> overly large :)
[08:49] <x-f> 2 feet is 60 cm, right?
[08:49] <jcoxon> Upu, too large to easily solder?
[08:50] <x-f> snowpocalipse.
[08:52] <jcoxon> Upu so are you now pulling up SDN on the rfm22?
[08:57] <Upu> no too large takes up too much space
[08:57] <Upu> pull it low
[08:57] <Upu> I've changed my designs
[08:57] <Upu> actually pads are so big
[08:58] <Upu> you can put the pull up on the pads 1 sec I'll show you my current design
[08:59] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/NEdlUoh.jpg
[08:59] <Upu> pull up seemed to work fine on the PAVA boards but not on the ATLAS ones, the data sheets say should be pulled low at all times
[09:00] <Upu> had odd behaviour when it was pulled high on power up so switched to pull low
[09:00] <Upu> moral of the story : always read the datasheets
[09:01] <jcoxon> 10k?
[09:03] <craag> Upu: This for the SDN[bar] pin?
[09:04] <craag> I'm pulling it up currently on the 869MHz. Could this be the cause of my problems I wonder.
[09:06] <Upu> yes
[09:06] <Upu> I had loads of wierd errors on startup
[09:06] <Upu> where the radio simply wouldn't start
[09:06] <Upu> switched to pull down and it works
[09:06] <Upu> yes 10k
[09:07] <craag> Yep, I've been having those issues too. I'll try switching it over when I get home then, thanks!
[09:07] <Upu> nps
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[09:18] <Spoz_> finally got round to hackerspace to check the rtty with an oscilloscope
[09:18] <Spoz_> those values were way off
[09:18] <Spoz_> and correcting them makes a HUGE difference
[09:18] <Spoz_> I can turn the attenuation on the radio right up, but the transmitter across the other side of the shed, and still no packet errors
[09:19] <Spoz_> maybe there should be a note in the wiki about the importance of verifying the correct timing values for your particular microcontroller
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[09:20] <Upu> the margins for error at 50 baud are quite large
[09:22] <Spoz_> what kind of margins?
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[09:22] <Spoz_> unless there's more interference around my place I cant be imagining the difference
[09:22] <Upu> don't know the exact number
[09:22] <Upu> fsphil may be able to assist
[09:23] <Upu> right I'm afk shopping
[09:23] <Spoz_> hmm I'll ask him
[09:23] <Spoz_> seeya
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[09:51] <eroomde> morning
[09:51] <eroomde> still burried Upu?
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[10:06] <ibanezmatt13> Hi, I am 15 years old and I am looking into performing a HAB flight this Summer for the first time! I have been experimenting with the Raspberry Pi for a year now and I have made some fabulous electronic projects using Python and C. The one thing that is concerning me at this moment is sending a camera into space.
[10:06] <ibanezmatt13> I have a HD webcam but I would love to know what program you use to store your images on the SD card
[10:07] <ibanezmatt13> I understand that you also send the images down via radio, however, I simply need to understand how to set a time delay so that I can take a picture and save it every say 40 seconds.
[10:08] <eroomde> you have come to the right place - fsphil and daveake are your guys
[10:08] <ibanezmatt13> I have been using a program called 'motion' on the Raspberry Pi which works well, but I can't seem to set a time delay between capturing shots
[10:08] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know how to do this with a little code?
[10:08] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[10:08] <eroomde> for timing shots i would have though a bash script would be easiest
[10:09] <ibanezmatt13> may I ask how this works?
[10:09] <daveake> Morning ibanezmatt13. Hope the emails were helpful.
[10:09] <daveake> To take photos I use fswebcam which was written by fsphil -->
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Dave, the emails were extremely helpful and I have understood far more about this hobby than I thought I would at first
[10:10] <daveake> Oh good :-).
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> I have heard of fswebcam actually but I havent tried it
[10:10] <daveake> You can run that every 30 seconds say by using a for loop and a "sleep 30" command
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> so is fswebcam a python addon?
[10:11] <daveake> Look up for loops for bash. They're easy though the syntax is a bit odd
[10:11] <daveake> No it's a program you can install
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok, daveake I shall take a look, thanks
[10:11] <daveake> IIRC you just "apt-get install fswebcam"
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll fire up my Pi now and give it a go.
[10:12] <daveake> I tried a couple of other webcam apps but fswebcam was the best
[10:12] <daveake> That's £5 please fsphil ;)
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> haha :)
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> may i ask what is a bash script
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[10:13] <daveake> bash is a unix shell, or command line interpreter
[10:14] <daveake> If all you want to do is run a program (e.g. fswebcam) and automate that (i.e. loop with a delay) then bash is ideal
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> i see, so would I write something in python like: os.system('command here')
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> fs webcam has just finished installing on my Pi.
[10:14] <daveake> Sure you could do it in python
[10:14] <eroomde> it's a sort of high-level glue programming languages for linux and unix operating systems. if you have every typed 'ls' into a command prompt to list all the files, you're using bash
[10:14] <eroomde> or 'rm' or 'cd' or whatever
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> now that I have fswebcam, is the next step to execute a bash command?
[10:15] <eroomde> if you have something you want to do a lot, like maybe ls, then find files in the last with a certain name, then rename them, then move them to another folder (just as an example) it can get tiresome to keep writing out all those commands
[10:16] <eroomde> so you can write those commands into a text file and save that text file as a 'script', which you can then run in your command line just by typing the script name
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> thanks erromde for the info, I'll have a practise
[10:16] <eroomde> it then additionally allows you to do more typical programming-langage features, like for loops
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> I see, thanks
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> I now have fswebcam installed but I have no idea how to use it
[10:17] <eroomde> np. knowing a bit of sheel scripting is a very useful weapon when you do battle with linux
[10:17] <eroomde> shell*
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> yes, I have always found bash a little wierd
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[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the help
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> Hi, I would like to use fswebcam on my Raspberry Pi to capture and store images every 30 seconds using a Microsoft webcam. I have installed fswebcam and I have ran a bash command which I found on the following link: http://www.slblabs.com/2012/09/26/rpi-webcam-stream/
[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> The issue is, I get the following message:
[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> Error selecting: input 0
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> VIDEOC_S_INPUT: Device or resource busy
[10:26] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> This is my first time using fswebcam and I cannot work out what is happening here
[10:28] <daveake> just a sec
[10:29] <daveake> Try:
[10:29] <daveake> fswebcam -r432x240 --no-banner --jpeg 50 test.jpg
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give it a go now, thanks Dave
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I tried it and got this error:
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> no such file or directory
[10:31] <daveake> how are you running this?
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> i am in the terminal window
[10:31] <daveake> so just type fswebcam and press enter
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> typing fswebcam returns, no such file or directory
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> ill reinstall it
[10:32] <daveake> hold on
[10:32] <daveake> type into that window:
[10:32] <daveake> sudo apt-get install fswebcam
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> I just have done, none upgraded, none newly installed, 117 not upgraded
[10:33] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Try closing the terminal window, opening it again and trying the fswebcam command again.
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> my pi is rebooting, one sec
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> same error, no such file or directory
[10:35] <daveake> Shouldn't need to reboot, or indeed re-open the terminal window. How strange
[10:35] <craag> huh, just isntalled it here and it worked.
[10:35] <ibanezmatt13> is it worth re flashing the sd card
[10:35] <daveake> No slow down :)
[10:35] <ibanezmatt13> or is that a little extreme
[10:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok, sorry :)
[10:35] <daveake> rebooting was extreme too ;)
[10:35] <eroomde> Upu / daveake what is the name of that fabled LED torch from dx?
[10:36] <eroomde> it definitely installed the first time?
[10:36] <Upu> trustfire tr-j18
[10:36] <craag> ibanezmatt13: try '/usr/bin/fswebcam'
[10:37] <Upu> brb unpakcing
[10:37] <daveake> TR-J18
[10:37] <daveake> ah
[10:37] <daveake> too slow
[10:38] <ibanezmatt13> trying '/usr/bin/fswebcam' gives no such file or directory
[10:39] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Ok, can you try running : 'sudo find / | grep fswebcam'
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> ill try now
[10:40] <craag> It'll just list all the files with fswebcam in the name on your pi.
[10:40] <Randomskk> craag: oh god, not "find / -name fswebcam" ?
[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> it has returned quite a few files
[10:40] <craag> Randomskk: I knew there was a better way, but couldn't remember it :(
[10:40] <craag> Thanks!
[10:40] <eroomde> 8000 lumens!
[10:40] <eroomde> golly
[10:40] <Randomskk> piping it to grep will use a fair bit of ram :P
[10:40] <craag> ibanezmatt13: is /usr/bin/fswebcam one of them?
[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> yes
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[10:41] <craag> Ok, so it has installed it, your terminal can't seem to find it..
[10:42] <ibanezmatt13> .
[10:42] <ibanezmatt13> yes, quite strange?
[10:43] <ibanezmatt13> any ideas?
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[10:43] <Hix> whats happening good people
[10:44] <craag> What does 'ls /usr/bin/fswebcam' give you?
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13> ill try that
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13> it returns, /usr/bin/fswebcam
[10:44] <craag> It should just return '/usr/bin/fswebcam'
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13> yes it does
[10:46] <Hix> are any of you guys wise in the ways of the USBTinyISP?
[10:46] <craag> ibanezmatt13: This is rasbian right?
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> yes it is raspbian wheezy
[10:47] <craag> I must be missing something obvious here..
[10:47] <mfa298> what do you get for 'ls -l /usr/bin/fswebcam'
[10:47] <craag> What does 'echo $PATH' output?
[10:48] <Hix> failing that, how to check fuses without atmel studio?
[10:48] <daveake> Also what does echo $0 give you?
[10:48] <eroomde> Hix: avrdude does all that fine
[10:49] <eroomde> you can write and read them from the avrdude comand line
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> that returns a big long line: /usr/local/sbin:/usr............................
[10:49] <Hix> do you know if there is documentation anywhere for it? Not used avrdude
[10:49] <eroomde> ok, no problems it is well documented
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[10:50] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Try daveake's 'echo $0'
[10:50] <eroomde> avrdude is the default for programming avrs btw, probably more so than studio by world use. it's what arduino is built upon, for one
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, echo $0 gives... -bash
[10:50] <eroomde> http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/avrdude.html
[10:50] <daveake> this no make sense!
[10:50] <eroomde> there is 'proper' documentation too but this tutorial is probs more what you're looking for
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> im with you there
[10:50] <craag> ibanezmatt13: That big long line, is ':/usr/bin:' in there?
[10:50] <Hix> ok cheers ed, got it installed so worth a go.
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> yes it is craag
[10:51] <Hix> the usbtinyisp is a real work of art though
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[10:51] <Hix> as in a pavement pizza style work of art
[10:52] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: can you try 'ls -l /usr/bin/fswebcam'
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> ill try that now
[10:53] <eroomde> Hix: cool. i use have an avrispmk2
[10:53] <mfa298> 'ldd /usr/bin/fswebcam' might also be worth a shot - look for lines that say something like not found or not present
[10:53] <eroomde> and a dragon
[10:53] <eroomde> i do like the dragon
[10:53] <eroomde> but the ispmkii seems good
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: that returns -rwxr-xr-x 1 root.........
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13> may 19 2012
[10:53] <Hix> the adafruit thing is utter shite, steer clear ye all
[10:53] <daveake> so it's there and executable
[10:53] <Hix> it be made of evil and tar
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> yes, quite strange
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[10:54] <daveake> Try ...
[10:54] <daveake> sh
[10:54] <daveake> and then
[10:54] <daveake> /usr/bin/fswebcam
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> syntax error
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> it says
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> word unexpected
[10:55] <daveake> On the sh line?
[10:55] <daveake> or the other
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> after i executed that command, on the next line after it says /usr/bin.... it said syntax errir
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> error
[10:56] <daveake> ok press CTRL and D to go back
[10:56] <fsphil> morning all
[10:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[10:56] <daveake> Ah fsphil
[10:56] <daveake> good timing :)
[10:56] <daveake> Well late actually ;)
[10:56] <fsphil> I see lol
[10:57] <daveake> Seems that bash can't run fswebcam even though it's there
[10:57] <daveake> and it can run apt-get etc
[10:57] <daveake> So we're all a bit confused
[10:58] <mfa298> might be worth uninstalling it and then re-install
[10:58] <ibanezmatt13> thats a good point actually, i dont know how to uninstall software on the pi!
[10:58] <Hix> so avrdude reports fuses are ok, despite the fact that the 1Hz blinkenlight is actually 6Hz
[10:58] <craag> sudo apt-get remove fswebcam
[10:59] <ibanezmatt13> ill try that now
[10:59] <chrisstubbs> hix crappy fix: but can you divide your delay by 6?
[10:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok, its unistalled
[10:59] <Hix> not sure how that works with serial bauds though
[11:00] <Hix> fine for blinkenlight but not for real use
[11:00] <chrisstubbs> yeah true
[11:00] <fsphil> hmm.. raspbian?
[11:00] <ibanezmatt13> should i reinstall?
[11:00] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Yep go ahead
[11:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes raspian
[11:00] <ibanezmatt13> so ill do sudo apt-get install fswebcam?
[11:01] <fsphil> yep
[11:01] <chrisstubbs> oh 8mhz hix?
[11:01] <Hix> crystal? yeah 3v3
[11:01] <ibanezmatt13> ok, its installing
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> its finished but it said during the install that the database said that over 5000 files were still installed
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> over 50000 sorry
[11:02] <fsphil> if you just type in fswebcam and press enter, what happens?
[11:02] <craag> Yeah that's fine, thats all the other programs
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok, its installed
[11:03] <Hix> any ideas on what could cause the timing to be screwed eroomde ? 1Hz = 6Hz on 8MHz 3v3 328P-AU TQFP
[11:04] <ibanezmatt13> again no such file or directory
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[11:04] <ibanezmatt13> i lost connection then
[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> so yes, it says no such file or directory again
[11:05] <DanielRichman> Hix: what are you using for delay/timing? hardware timer? arduino delay()?
[11:05] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
[11:05] <craag> :( I've gotta go now, but I hope you get it fixed ibanezmatt!
[11:05] <daveake> ok type cd /usr/bin
[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> thatnks for the help craag, see you
[11:05] <daveake> then type
[11:05] <daveake> ./fswebcam
[11:05] <Hix> delay() DanielRichman upu advised delay() is ok for >=8MHz
[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, no such file or directory again
[11:06] <daveake> on which line?
[11:06] <DanielRichman> so delay calculates the number of cycles it will wait based on what hardware it thinks it is connected to: are you sure the IDE has the correct chip/frequency selected?
[11:06] <ibanezmatt13> the next line which says -bash: ./fswebcam: No such...
[11:07] <daveake> ok
[11:07] <Hix> I've used the arduino pro mini 8MHz 3v3 board from the arduinoISP
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[11:07] <daveake> try ls -l fswebcam
[11:07] <zyp> delay() will have a max delay time, are you sure it's not just terminating early because you've reached the max?
[11:07] <ibanezmatt13> it says: ls: cannot access fswebcam: No such...
[11:07] <Upu> Hix wait is my thrown together code to provide a small delay for stuff like blinken leds < 8Mhz
[11:07] <Upu> if you're 8Mhz use delay
[11:08] <fsphil> that is very odd
[11:08] <ibanezmatt13> indeed it is
[11:08] <DanielRichman> ibanezmatt13: $ dpkg -l fswebcam
[11:08] <fsphil> apt-get lying?
[11:08] <Hix> yeah, have been upu but with the onboard chip its fallen over. atmel studio wont see usbtinyisp but avrdude reports fuses are ok
[11:09] <daveake> Lots of odd things. It showed earlier from ls
[11:09] <Upu> what is avrdude reporting the fuses as ?
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13> danielrichman: it gives quite a bit of info
[11:09] <Hix> sec upu
[11:09] <DanielRichman> ibanezmatt13: pastie.org
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13> pastie.org?
[11:10] <DanielRichman> as in, http://pastie.org
[11:10] <zyp> paste the output into that site, then post the resulting url here
[11:10] <DanielRichman> PS: if you type danielr on IRC, and then press TAB, it should finish the name for you (easier)
[11:10] <Hix> avrdude -c usbtiny -p m328p reports: avrdude: safemode: Fuses OK
[11:10] <ibanezmatt13> i see, well, let me ssh into my pi and do it that way. one sec
[11:10] <Upu> negative Hix
[11:11] <Upu> need to know what the fuses are exactly
[11:11] <Hix> how to do in avrdude?
[11:11] <Upu> avrdude -p m168 -P COM1 -c ponyser -U lfuse:r:-:h -U hfuse:r:-:h
[11:11] <Upu> and efuse
[11:12] <Upu> I suspect
[11:12] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastie.org/7098256
[11:12] <Upu> afk back soon
[11:12] <Hix> should i not have m328p in there instead upu?
[11:12] <fsphil> yea you just need the -U bits
[11:12] <fsphil> plus the bits for your own mcu
[11:12] <fsphil> and programmer
[11:12] <DanielRichman> ibanezmatt13: okay, how about $ dpkg -L fswebcam
[11:13] <DanielRichman> note the change of case
[11:13] <ibanezmatt13> new url: http://pastie.org/7098266
[11:13] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: can you also try ldd /usr/bin/fswebcam
[11:13] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[11:13] <DanielRichman> beat me to it mfa298 :P
[11:13] <mfa298> put that into pastie.org
[11:14] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastie.org/7098274
[11:14] <mfa298> I'd thought about it earlier but had forgotton about the likes of pastie
[11:14] <DanielRichman> $ which fswebcam
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> im not sure
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> how do i check the version
[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> running fswebcam says no file or directiry
[11:16] <DanielRichman> which is a command: run $ which fswebcam
[11:16] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: ' which fswebcam' is a command you can run
[11:16] <Hix> ok so fuses are reported as in the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/ZQC7TcFr
[11:16] <ibanezmatt13> ok, ill try it
[11:17] <DanielRichman> ibanezmatt13: I think some lines may be missing from http://pastie.org/7098274 - are you sure you copied it all?
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> i think so.
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> the which command returns the name of that file. /usr/bin/fswebcam
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[11:18] <Hix> so lfuse is reporting 0xff and hfuse is repotring 0xda as it should be in the boards.txt
[11:18] <Hix> surely this is correct?
[11:18] <DanielRichman> okay. ibanezmatt13: just... checking (sorry); type $ /usr/bin/fswebcam
[11:18] <ibanezmatt13> i have to go out now unfortunately :( I will return later to try and resolve the problem
[11:18] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, try «file /usr/bin/fswebcam»
[11:19] <ibanezmatt13> typing that returns no such file or directory
[11:19] <mfa298> DanielRichman: that ldd appears to match whats on my pi
[11:19] <DanielRichman> mfa298: how strange
[11:19] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, even the file command?
[11:20] <zyp> if so, that sounds like your file system might be broken
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastie.org/7098310 file command
[11:20] <zyp> oh
[11:20] <zyp> so it's there, it just won't execute
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13> so it might be worth re flashing, will only take about 10 mins
[11:20] <fsphil> definitely
[11:20] <zyp> I've seen a similar error before, but that was not arm
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13> i must go out now though so I'll get back to you after reflashing
[11:20] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: can you try 'stat /usr/bin/fswebcam
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13> stat gives http://pastie.org/7098314
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the help
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[11:22] <zyp> on x86_64, trying to execute 32-bit executables without 32-bit compatibility mode installed will give «no such file or directory»-errors, even though the file is there
[11:22] <fsphil> Hix: if http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ is correct, 0xDA is setting up the avr to expect a crystal between 0.9 and 3.0 MHz
[11:24] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.low_fuses=0xFF
[11:24] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDA
[11:24] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x05
[11:24] <DanielRichman> if he comes back, maybe $ readelf -l /usr/bin/fswebcam and check that the interpreter requested actually exists
[11:24] <Upu> I think that fuse calc doesn't work tbh
[11:24] <m0psi> morning all. Still looking for a launch on Tuesday. Landing prediction for Tuesday 12pm still OK, but winds might be too heavy (on the launch site). Any thoughts?
[11:24] <m0psi> http://8bc.gotdns.com:8080/hourly/#
[11:24] <Upu> short line
[11:24] <Upu> and check the wiki article on launching in heavy winds
[11:24] <Upu> if you can't find it I'll dig it out later
[11:24] <daveake> And check Steve's 2-line launch technique in the wiki
[11:24] <m0psi> thanks upu
[11:25] <Hix> so I have 0xff for low and 0xda for high with no report of extended fuses, could this be the missing link?
[11:25] <m0psi> what about 'how much gas to put in', shall i just dump the entire bottle in? I pretty much need it all anyway
[11:26] <m0psi> (in light of the discussion a few days ago)
[11:26] <Spoz> how do you generate the scenarios like that
[11:26] <m0psi> the hourly?
[11:26] <Spoz> yeah
[11:26] <fsphil> oh I got the fuses the wrong way around, n/m me
[11:26] <eroomde> m0psi: how much gas to put in?
[11:26] <fsphil> Hix: is this arduino?
[11:26] <eroomde> as much as ou need toget the lift you calculated
[11:26] <Hix> is what arduino fsphil ?
[11:27] <m0psi> eroomde; i think about 3.2m3
[11:27] <Hix> board?
[11:27] <daveake> And wait for a lull in the wind to measure; DO NOT measure when it's blowing hard
[11:27] <m0psi> and the bottle is about 3.6
[11:27] <fsphil> Hix: the IDE
[11:27] <Hix> for the fuse reports fsphil ?
[11:27] <fsphil> if you're not using the arduino ide/libraries then you might need to define F_CPU somewhere in your code
[11:27] <daveake> 3.2 vs 3.6 - I'd chuck it all in
[11:27] <fsphil> for the program you're running
[11:28] <Hix> I've uploaded from arduinoIDE yes, with board set to pro mini 3v3 @8MHz
[11:28] <m0psi> spoz; there is some code for installing the hourly predictor
[11:28] <fsphil> that's probably enough then
[11:28] <m0psi> daveake; i figured that too. within the error margin anyway, i should think
[11:28] <Hix> something is fubar somewhere
[11:29] <daveake> It's only a few Stirks extra :)
[11:29] <Hix> maybe i spent too long soldering the ic?
[11:29] <m0psi> daveake; i've heard about them! :-)
[11:29] <Hix> or the crystal got too warm?
[11:31] <m0psi> spoz: take a look at this http://hab.yapd.net/setup.html
[11:31] <fsphil> have you tried _delay_ms() ?
[11:31] <m0psi> spoz: and here is a ready img http://tn22.com/chris.stubbs/www/
[11:31] <eroomde> well, 0.4m^3 is 400g extra lift at standard conditions. which in some circumstances might be more than noise
[11:31] <Hix> but if I'd borked the ic it wouldnt take code would it?
[11:31] <Spoz> ah thanks m0psi
[11:31] <Hix> i havent fsphil
[11:32] <m0psi> so erromde, you still think i should 'weigh' the balloon to the right amount?
[11:32] <mfa298> Spoz: if you get stuck with the notes at http://hab.yapd.net/setup.html ping me (they're my notes)
[11:32] <Spoz> thanks, it looks a bit too linuxy for me though :p
[11:33] <m0psi> it looks linuxy, cos it is :-)
[11:33] <Spoz> yeah, I've got more important missions than trying to learn linux
[11:33] <Spoz> cool tool though
[11:33] <mfa298> most of it isn't too bad if you have some idea of linuxy stuff
[11:34] <Spoz> yeah I dont, beyond microcontrollers Im not much of a software guy
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[11:35] <chrisstubbs> spoz if you decide you want to play with it i have a VMware image up for download with it already set up and ready to go
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[11:35] <Hix> fsphil: Blink:21: error: '_delay_ms' was not declared in this scope
[11:35] <Spoz> whats involved there, install linux, open image in vmware?
[11:35] <chrisstubbs> however i would reccomend following the instructions for a better understanding of how it works
[11:36] <fsphil> Hix: you need to #include <util/delay.h>
[11:37] <Hix> hold fire - 1Hz ==1Hz
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[11:38] <fsphil> with _delay_ms()?
[11:38] <Hix> no, with delay
[11:39] <fsphil> oh - how'd you do that? :)
[11:39] <Hix> something has worked without being changed
[11:39] <fsphil> I hate that
[11:39] <Hix> I'd like to document it but i think it comes under the occult
[11:39] <fsphil> phase of the moon
[11:39] <Hix> a whole day of nothing for it to decide "oh I'll work then"
[11:40] <fsphil> worse thing about that is the risk it'll start again
[11:40] <Hix> mid flight
[11:41] <Hix> RTTY over blinkenlight Is nice I like
[11:43] <Hix> 300baud fine too
[11:45] <Spoz> oh hey fsphil, I was told to ask you about the timing on RTTY
[11:45] <fsphil> Hix: nice. you should try it with PWM and a photosensor, you can get it decoding in fldigi :)
[11:45] <fsphil> Spoz: fire away
[11:45] <Spoz> I spent some time this afternoon on a scope tuning the timing to 10ms for 100baud, it started out at 10.2ms
[11:46] <Spoz> and I could swear there was a noticable improvement in packet integrity
[11:46] <Spoz> is that likely from such a small difference
[11:46] <Hix> I need to get to the bottom of what happened first, that's now a big ugly worry over it doing it in flight
[11:47] <fsphil> Spoz: very slightly if the signal was noisy
[11:47] <fsphil> but up close it shouldn't make any difference
[11:48] <Spoz> hm interesting
[11:48] <Spoz> I put it in another room with no antenna and with the attenuator on
[11:48] <Spoz> still, nice to know the timing is right now
[11:48] <fsphil> my second flight had an error of 4%
[11:49] <Spoz> and it wasnt a big problem?
[11:49] <fsphil> the antenna was faulty so it wasn't received by as many people as I'd hoped
[11:49] <Spoz> we're the only tracker and we're in big trouble with air traffic control if we lose it, so Im trying everything I can to make it reliable
[11:49] <fsphil> so difficult to say how much a problem the error had
[11:49] <Spoz> fair enough
[11:49] <fsphil> it was suppose to be transmitting at 300 baud but I setup the interrupt wrong, and it was doing 288 baud
[11:50] <fsphil> if you want exact timing, I'd use interrupts Spoz
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[11:50] <Spoz> hmm
[11:50] <daveake> I never trust my int timer calcs so I just measure to check (and fix!)
[11:50] <fsphil> I had no scope back then so I couldn't measure
[11:51] <Spoz> yeah Im assuming that if I scope it and tune delaymicroseconds() then that will be fine
[11:51] <fsphil> that would be fine too
[11:51] <fsphil> with interrupts you also get the ability to do work while it's transmitting something
[11:52] <fsphil> so you can prepare the next string while the current one is being sent
[11:52] <Spoz> yeah
[11:52] <fsphil> no gaps in the transmittion then
[11:52] <Spoz> eh, at 100 baud the time to read the gps is nothing
[11:52] <Spoz> Im in favour of keeping it as simple as possible
[11:53] <Spoz> what do you think about baud rates too, much difference between 50/100/300?
[11:53] <eroomde> i got some free moleskine notebooks! they are quite nice. not sufficiently nice that I would ever spend £14 on a small pad of paper, but I can see that they're nice and very happy to get them for free.
[11:53] <fsphil> just remember that the delay functions can be slowed down by other interrupts (main problem being software serial)
[11:54] <eroomde> i don;t know why I share this. liveblogging
[11:54] <fsphil> most people use 50 but to be honest 100 would be fine too
[11:54] <eroomde> Spoz: i don;t really see the point in anything other than 50 unless you're starting to do x10 the data rate
[11:54] <Hix> they are lovely book though eroomde
[11:54] <Spoz> oh I was under the impression most were using 300
[11:54] <eroomde> because there's not much difference to tracking between a fix every 10s or a fix every 5s or a fix every 3s or whatever
[11:54] <daveake> 50 baud sounds nice; that's a good enough reason to stick with it :)
[11:55] <Spoz> hehe
[11:55] <Hix> though you could be in danger of becoming a hipster if you buy one :P
[11:55] <fsphil> but you'll have less worry about timing errors at 50 baud :)
[11:55] <eroomde> if we could start routinely doing 600 or 1.2kB then that enables a step change for stuff
[11:55] <eroomde> like pictures or (in combo with a bidriectional link) a sort of live terminal to your balloon
[11:55] <fsphil> the number of 600 baud flights is about to double
[11:56] <eroomde> actually 300 baud might do that too, int the style of old tty modems
[11:56] <Spoz> eroomde I trialed the digital radio modems on my first flight and it worked flawlessly
[11:56] <Spoz> 25kbit out to 50km, no packet errors
[11:56] <eroomde> Upu: yep they're definitely nice. the paper is lovely with my fountain pen
[11:56] <Spoz> downside is I need a 200g battery
[11:56] <eroomde> glides as if on butter
[11:56] <eroomde> doesn't smear
[11:56] <fsphil> Spoz: what power?
[11:56] <Spoz> 1W
[11:56] <eroomde> i was assuming you're in the UK
[11:56] <fsphil> ah would be nice :)
[11:57] <eroomde> if not that who cares! go for 9k6!
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[11:57] <Spoz> oh right, I forget about that. No Im in australia
[11:57] <fsphil> if you've got the power then yea
[11:57] <fsphil> but if you're using an NTX2, then 50 baud :)
[11:58] <eroomde> the world is your mollusc then
[11:58] <Spoz> hm ok, I'll set it back to 50.. and back to the scope I go
[11:58] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rO1n8-SuNM
[11:59] <chrisstubbs> second time ive had to replace the backlight LED's in this alarm clock. Stupid argos designers didnt bother putting a resistor on for them
[11:59] <fsphil> the last clock I got at Argos was a really cool transparent LCD thing. trouble was it's so transparent I can't read it
[12:00] <fsphil> and when you turn the light on the LCD fades away
[12:00] <daveake> sounds alarming
[12:01] <fsphil> perfect timing
[12:01] <daveake> minute errors
[12:01] <Hix> from looking at the board i believe there is a way to correct the voltage divider too, though i am quite keen on the idea of offboard ntx2 now for insulation purposes
[12:05] <chrisstubbs> Hix cant you just insulate it on the board?
[12:07] <Hix> i like the idea of having it in its own little insulated house
[12:08] <Hix> so voltage divider on the board now, just wire ntx2 externally and have RF coming straight off an sma soldered to the module itself
[12:08] <Hix> sounds like a plan
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[12:14] <Hix> what are the || demoting on the divider calc http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:ntx2_voltage_divider_equation.png?cache=
[12:14] <Hix> *denoting
[12:14] <Hix> (R5||R3)
[12:14] <Spoz> in parallel
[12:15] <Hix> ah ok
[12:15] <Hix> so mathematically how is parallel worked?
[12:15] <Hix> say for 2 10k in parallel
[12:16] <Spoz> 1/R total = 1/R1 + 1/R2 etc
[12:16] <Spoz> so 1/r1 + 1/r2 etc then invert it
[12:16] <Hix> ok ta
[12:20] <bertrik> another formula: Rtotal = (R1*R2)/(R1+R2)
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[12:22] <mfa298> if they're all the same value it's also just a case of dividing the value of one by the total number of resistors (so 10k/2 for 2)
[12:26] <eroomde> to be super clear, bertrik formula is the same as Spoz's, just you can rearrange it like that (product over sum) for when you have just two in parallel
[12:27] <eroomde> but in the general case it's the sum of 1/R for all the Rs
[12:29] <eroomde> same forular to work out capacitors in series
[12:29] <eroomde> formula*
[12:29] <eroomde> and in parallel you just sum their values
[12:29] <eroomde> so they're the opposite to resistors in that respect
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[12:43] <mfa298> doing stuff on the pi is so slow, thought I'd have a go at seeing if the hourly works on it - because pi
[12:44] <DanielRichman> people have difficulty making the hourly work on regular size computers (!)
[12:44] <DanielRichman> good luck
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[12:46] <mfa298> I just thought I'd try as people keep wanting to do it and we all say it should work but it'll be slow
[12:46] <mfa298> I didn't have too many issues with it on a regular machine
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[12:53] <mfa298> Progress - it appears to be downloading the gfs data - this might actually work!
[12:53] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, if it works could you take an image of the sd card? :)
[12:54] <mfa298> probably not in this incarnation as there's a load of random stuff on it but it might be possible to do a new one.
[12:55] <mfa298> there's several months of experimenting on this card (I've used most of the 8G card somehow)
[12:56] <mfa298> although I've not had to do much to it to get this far (very similar to my centos notes)
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[12:57] <Hix> i for one would be very interested in this mfa298
[12:58] <mfa298> If it works I shall dig out another card and see if I can document it properly - and use more packages
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[13:00] <Hix> hows the flying going cuddykid
[13:00] <cuddykid> hiya Hix
[13:00] <cuddykid> haven't managed to have a proper fly around yet - still snowing here
[13:00] <cuddykid> was dark by the time it stopped yesterday :(
[13:00] <Hix> snow prob good for unplanned landings :)
[13:01] <cuddykid> yep :) only problem is it's a little too deep so the motors get wet on landing
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[13:01] <Hix> ahhh wrong depth of cusioning agent
[13:01] <cuddykid> yep
[13:01] <Hix> heh
[13:02] <Hix> 300 baud sounds like a camp little A10 gatling gun
[13:05] <Hix> and running NTX2 on 3v3 drops the frequency to 434.074
[13:06] <Spoz> huh does it
[13:06] <Hix> seems to
[13:06] <Hix> on .075 is sounds weird .074 back to normal RTTY
[13:07] <Spoz> oh I forgot you start at .075
[13:07] <Spoz> Im on 434.650 at 3v3 and it doesnt seem to drop the freq at all
[13:07] <Spoz> theres a slight shift if I use 5v
[13:07] <Spoz> but not that much
[13:07] <Spoz> shift in the output frequency I mean
[13:07] <cuddykid> can't believe, out of the ridiculous number of PSUs I have here, none give the required power to this damn battery charger
[13:07] <Spoz> not the broadcast freq
[13:08] <Hix> is it an imax cuddykid ?
[13:08] <cuddykid> Hix: no, one of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11668__HobbyKing_Variable_6S_50W_5A_Balancer_Charger_w_accessories.html
[13:09] <Hix> looks about the same thing, no laptop supplies?
[13:09] <Hix> s'what i sue for mine
[13:09] <Hix> 16v 4.5A
[13:10] <cuddykid> all my old laptop ones are over 18v
[13:10] <Hix> hmm, no old boards you can nick a vreg from?
[13:10] <cuddykid> one is 18.5V and about 4A which would be perfect if it was 0.5v less.. wonder if that will be ok
[13:10] <Willdude123> Good afternoon.
[13:11] <cuddykid> Hix: unfortunately not
[13:11] <Hix> bugger. might be worth hacking something to drop the 18.5 a volt or so
[13:11] <Hix> hi Willdude123
[13:11] <cuddykid> yeah, I think it might be worth taking it apart
[13:12] <mfa298> if you just need to drop a bit of voltage you might be able to just use a diode or two
[13:13] <Willdude123> daveake: When are you planning the next pi launch for?
[13:14] <daveake> when spring arrives :p
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[13:15] <Willdude123> If it does..
[13:15] <Willdude123> Have there ever been any transatlantic HABs?
[13:16] <daveake> From USA yes
[13:17] <Willdude123> Were they foil balloons?
[13:17] <Hix> cuddykid: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/linear-voltage-regulators/0460900/ 5A adjustable
[13:17] <Hix> TI too so maybe a smaple from em
[13:17] <Willdude123> Is there a HAB record table?
[13:18] <Hix> on the wiki Willdude123
[13:18] <cuddykid> ah cheers Hix
[13:18] <daveake> Last one was Latex; landed in Morocco
[13:18] <Hix> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records Willdude123
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[13:31] <Willdude123> I want to make a payload so much, it's irritating me.
[13:31] <Hix> make one then :)
[13:32] <Hix> scratch that itch
[13:32] <Willdude123> Yeah, about that, my parents won't let me.
[13:32] <chrisstubbs> they wont let you make one? or wont let you fly one?
[13:32] <jcoxon> Willdude123, make a tracking station instead
[13:32] <Willdude123> I think I will do.
[13:32] <daveake> I like that idea
[13:33] <daveake> Can't see them disagreeing with that one
[13:33] <Hix> just tell em its a geocaching tool
[13:33] <chrisstubbs> yeah you could make a little tracker for a bike or somthing
[13:33] <chrisstubbs> that would be cool
[13:34] <Hix> a bike light alarm/tracker
[13:34] <Willdude123> Well, would I need to install an aerial?
[13:34] <Hix> looks like a light but is a tracker and theft alarm
[13:34] <Hix> just happens to do the same as a HAB tracker :)
[13:34] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, for shortish range you can build a yagi to just point out the window
[13:35] <chrisstubbs> or any other antenna for that matter, dosent have to be permanent
[13:35] <Willdude123> Well, I wouldn't be tracking my own payloads so most would be quite far away.
[13:35] <Willdude123> daveake: Where do you do your Pi in the sky launches?
[13:35] <cuddykid> Willdude123: can't you just make a payload and fly it on someone else's balloon?
[13:36] <daveake> When I just used a small yagi stuck to the window frame, I could just about get signals from holland
[13:36] <Willdude123> cuddykid: Nope.
[13:36] <Hix> why are your parents so anti HAB? surely they shoud be pleased?
[13:36] <Willdude123> Yagis are directional, right?
[13:36] <Hix> yup
[13:36] <mfa298> several people just have some sort of antenna out the window for launches with reasonable success
[13:36] <daveake> Next Pi launch probably in Cambs at Steve's place, but usually I launch from Berks
[13:37] <Willdude123> Hix: It involves meeting other people. That makes them Russian spies
[13:37] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/ekX850F.jpg here's my temp antenna solution
[13:37] <Hix> Willdude123: I've not met anyone eyt, only on here
[13:38] <Hix> and I thinkk russian spies have ditched irc lately ;p
[13:38] <Willdude123> Even if they've met Eben Upton and been in a BBC documentary.
[13:38] <daveake> All part of the disguise
[13:39] <Willdude123> And have a few records for their HAB stuff, like the highest photographs from an amateur balloon.
[13:39] <daveake> That's number10 not me :)
[13:40] <Willdude123> Or was it the highest real time photographs?
[13:40] <daveake> yes, but they got that wrong
[13:41] <cuddykid> looks like there won't be a launch from me in the next week and a bit - wind predictions are getting worse
[13:42] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
[13:42] <cuddykid> Willdude123: not sure whether you can see but try: http://panther.acudworth.co.uk/hourly
[13:43] <cuddykid> plots the predicted landing over the next week and a bit
[13:43] <eroomde> there's a cock pheasant announcing his presence about 1m behind the back of my head on the other side of the windowsill
[13:44] <Willdude123> I was talking to dave, but OK.
[13:44] <eroomde> now to find those raisins laces with pain-killer
[13:44] <eroomde> laced*
[13:44] <cuddykid> lol
[13:44] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, better fix itself by april! 90% of mine are going in the sea
[13:44] <cuddykid> yeah, I have a couple of potential launches to do within the next few weeks
[13:44] <Hix> did you get approval for your essex site chrisstubbs ?
[13:45] <cuddykid> hope it warms up too, horrible launching in the freezing temps
[13:45] <daveake> Oh. I have the highest "live" images but number10 got the highest images. The BBC thing omitted the word "live". Didn't know they were going to say anything about that
[13:45] <chrisstubbs> Kinda. they want to impose a restriction on only NE wind. but thats going to be such a pain in the a**
[13:45] <Hix> I can see why to be fair
[13:45] <chrisstubbs> nothing in writing yet. going to call them (again) on wednesday
[13:45] <Hix> though a lot of traffic does enter UK from NE of you
[13:46] <chrisstubbs> yeah whichever way it goes it is going to be in a flight path
[13:46] <Willdude123> How do I make a Yagi?
[13:46] <chrisstubbs> wood, tape and wire :)
[13:46] <Hix> coathangers :)
[13:47] <mfa298> ive seen bits of metal tape measure used
[13:48] <mfa298> plastic waste pipe and threaded rod as well
[13:48] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[13:48] <Hix> heh i recognise that url :)
[13:50] <Willdude123> Looks like I'll want to talk to the parents and then order an EZcap dongle.
[13:51] <Willdude123> Upu sells them right?
[13:51] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, i would reccomend getting the habamp at the same tie
[13:51] <chrisstubbs> time
[13:51] <Hix> without stamping on Upu's toes check out cozycave too insanely cheap ~£8
[13:52] <chrisstubbs> he used to, i think he stopped as you can get them cheaper elsewhere now
[13:52] <Upu> I dont' sell them any more
[13:52] <Upu> cozycave..
[13:52] <Upu> see the article on using them on UKHAS there is a link there
[13:52] <Upu> afk
[13:52] <Spoz> night all, thanks again for your help chris. I'll take a look at that guide during the week
[13:52] <Hix> there you go, no toe stamping
[13:52] <chrisstubbs> spoz no probelm. your close to getting it working!
[13:53] <Willdude123> *you're
[13:53] <chrisstubbs> thanks
[13:53] <Spoz> yeah I'll have to go through the chats I think
[13:53] <Willdude123> Sorry.
[13:53] <Hix> Willdude123: http://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=287
[13:53] <Spoz> and UPUs bash log
[13:53] <chrisstubbs> lol, yeah i will have a go at it myself in a bit and see if i can get it working
[13:53] <chrisstubbs> night man
[13:54] <Hix> hey Upu - board just decided it'd work
[13:54] <Upu> dodgy crystal connection ?
[13:54] <Hix> no fuses or soldering or coding in fact nothing done
[13:54] <Spoz> sure, maybe I'll leave this on and if you find anything you can let me know :) otherwise I'll catch you later
[13:54] <Upu> only thing about the R820T dongle is they drift alot
[13:54] Nick change: Spoz -> Spoz|Sleep
[13:55] <Willdude123> What is drift?
[13:55] <Hix> this is supposedly E4000 based http://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=267
[13:55] <Willdude123> I'll google it.
[13:55] <Hix> £9.15
[13:56] <bertrik> The thing I noticed most about my R820T mini is how freaking hot it gets, that's one of the things that makes it drift
[13:56] <Hix> I've not noticed any with mine
[13:56] <Hix> the first link up there
[13:56] <eroomde> the dutch chap in costyn's recent video (or rathet tha hack5 channels recent video about costyn's launch) showed some pretty serious drifting as the usb stick warmed up
[13:57] <eroomde> it was the really small one
[13:58] Action: Upu points at Maxell
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[14:05] <Maxell> hmmhmm
[14:05] <Maxell> And outside it never stabilaizes
[14:05] Action: Willdude123 points at Upu
[14:05] Action: Willdude123 points at everyone
[14:05] <Maxell> So it's in a alu enclosure now.
[14:06] <Willdude123> Should I get a HABamp Upu?
[14:13] <Upu> Will
[14:13] <Upu> hey Will even
[14:13] <Upu> sorry been afk
[14:13] <Upu> its not essential for testing
[14:14] <mfa298> for hourly predictor on the pi: ~70 mins to get the gfs data, 10mins for the predictions, now I need a web server on there to test it actually worked
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[14:15] <mfa298> Hix: chrisstubbs DanielRichman ^^
[14:15] <Hix> pretty sweet
[14:15] <Willdude123> I think I'll buy one if I am allowed to.
[14:16] <Upu> Willdude123 drift is where you set it to a set frequency and it keeps changing generally due to temperature
[14:16] <Hix> does apache run on pi
[14:16] <chrisstubbs> ooo. 70mins sounds painful though!
[14:16] <Hix> doesn't sound too far off my server tbh
[14:16] <mfa298> I think the gfs data takes around 30 mins on my vm. I think that's down to disk speed so some trickery might speed it up
[14:17] <mfa298> I think you can get apache on the pi but it might struggle with memory
[14:18] <mfa298> i might only have a class4 sd card in at the moment
[14:23] <DanielRichman> it's not that much, is it? ramdisk/tmpfs maybe
[14:24] <eroomde> i do that often for datasets in the 1-10GB range
[14:24] <eroomde> makes a world of difference
[14:26] <mfa298> DanielRichman: I was thinking about that
[14:28] <mfa298> 13m for /opt/landing-prediction-data/ on the pi
[14:28] <eroomde> 30 mins is a very long time to run hourly come to think of it
[14:28] <DanielRichman> I'm seeing ~70mb in logs, 20mb essentially temporary wind data, 10mb of useful stuff written
[14:28] <mfa298> so that should be doable
[14:28] <DanielRichman> ah the logs are probably accumalated
[14:28] <Hix> with TinyGPS there are two methods TinyGPS::get_position and TnyGPS::f_get_position
[14:28] <DanielRichman> either way all but the output can go on a tempfs
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[14:28] <Hix> can i use the former to avoid all this float crap?
[14:29] <Hix> and what does :: signify?
[14:30] <chrisstubbs> hix
[14:30] <Hix> chrisstubbs:
[14:30] <eroomde> namespace
[14:30] <cuddykid> Hix: I might have found a solution to charge these batts - forgot I had some 12V car batts kicking about, going to try one of them :)
[14:30] <Elwell> Hix :: probably comes from perl module naming legacy
[14:30] <chrisstubbs> gps.get_position(&lat, &lon, &fix_age);
[14:31] <eroomde> it's saying 'this function comes from this namespace' (where namespace usually maps onto a library)
[14:31] <chrisstubbs> lat lon as long and fix_age as unsigned long
[14:31] <Hix> right ok chaps ta
[14:31] <Hix> so that cuts out the float crap then :)
[14:31] <chrisstubbs> yeah retrieves +/- lat/long in 100000ths of a degree
[14:32] <Hix> cuddykid: cool - that'll see you through tilll oyu get a reg
[14:33] <Hix> though you may need to charge em if they've been kicking arund
[14:33] <Hix> car batts no like kicking around
[14:33] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, this is why every household should have a redundancy of SLA batteries
[14:33] <chrisstubbs> :P
[14:33] <cuddykid> :)
[14:36] <cuddykid> woo, it works :D
[14:37] <cuddykid> now to find out how to use this charger
[14:38] <Hix> set number of cells set charge rate and go normally
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[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I have been reading the tutorial guide on how to use an Arduino with a Radiometrix NTX2 transmitter. I partially understand it until I get to the code. My programming language is Python typically because I use a Raspberry Pi. If somebody could explain to me what the code in the tutorial is doing, I'd be most grateful. The tutorial explains how to convert each character of a sentence into something transmittable via radi
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> I am a little confused as to what the code is actually doing?
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[14:45] <eroomde> "I partially understand it until I get to the code.
[14:45] <eroomde> ... YOU DON;T UNDERSTAND IT
[14:45] <eroomde> whoops that wasn;t meant to be capitalised
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> basically, I find it hard to understand yes. I was never very good at all with C
[14:45] <cuddykid> Hix: seems to be charging - there's a lot of numbers everywhere - there's something counting up (not seconds) roughly increasing by 1 every 3 or so secs
[14:46] <cuddykid> need to find the manual for this thing
[14:46] <eroomde> it's ok. just so we're on the same page that the code *is* what it is. there is very little to it other than the code.
[14:47] <eroomde> now, having said that, there is nothing to it that doesn't make sense if you know C
[14:47] <Hix> what sort of value is incrementing cuddykid
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> I understand the concept of it, I just cant work out what the code is actually doing.
[14:47] <Hix> i.e 5.41 etc
[14:47] <eroomde> and this probably isn;t the best place for fundamental C 101. You can't really explain this bit of code in isolation without explaining C
[14:47] <cuddykid> Hix: just a unit value - preceded by about 4 zeros so it looks like it could count up quite high
[14:48] <Hix> whats the current value
[14:48] <Hix> and your charge rate
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just trying to work out what the program does in stages. So, stage one, splitting the sentence into characters. Stage 2: ...
[14:48] <cuddykid> I've set it at 1A
[14:48] <Hix> sounds like amperes added to me
[14:51] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: best to think of it in terms of functions rather than stages
[14:51] <eroomde> can you see that there is a function called rtty_txstring?
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[14:51] <eroomde> what does it do?
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[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> I understand that it sends individual characters to another function. I understand that part as it is commented on
[14:52] <eroomde> right
[14:52] <eroomde> so what is that other function?
[14:53] <Hix> cuddykid: http://www.worldoffiles.net/getfile/59f6a383hfi0/HobbyKing+Variable+6S+50W+5A+BalancerCharger+MANUAL.pdf.html
[14:53] <cuddykid> nice one, thanks Hix
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> I cannot work out what that other function is doing
[14:53] <Hix> cuddykid: sorry here http://199.91.153.140/1yqswts6unrg/rcfq49tqw6zw4f1/HobbyKing+Variable+6S+50W+5A+BalancerCharger+MANUAL.pdf
[14:53] <Hix> direct
[14:54] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: that's ok
[14:54] <eroomde> so let's break it down
[14:54] <eroomde> what does that other function receive from the first fuction?
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> it recieves bits of characters according to the comment. But how can you have a bit of a character?
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> oh I see, one character has 8 bits
[14:56] <eroomde> cool, well we can answer this by being quite strict about describing stuff accurately
[14:56] <eroomde> ah yes
[14:56] <eroomde> cool
[14:56] <eroomde> you see
[14:57] <eroomde> so a char is the same thing as a byte - it's a data_type of length 8 bits - also known as a byte
[14:57] <eroomde> (byte apparently is born from the phrase 'by eight'... maybe)
[14:57] <fsphil> cool
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13> i see
[14:57] <eroomde> so the rtty_txbyte function receices a single byte
[14:58] <eroomde> which representes an character to be sent
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> how come it splits characters into bits?
[14:58] <eroomde> and you can see that that function ends up calling a function called rtty_txbit
[14:58] <eroomde> that's the cool trick ibanezmatt13
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[14:59] <eroomde> you have to split everything into bits at some point because you send one bit at a time over the radio
[14:59] <eroomde> one frequency for a 0, another frequency for a 1
[14:59] <ibanezmatt13> i see, is there a function built into the language which does this?
[14:59] <eroomde> yes
[14:59] <eroomde> sort of
[14:59] <eroomde> it's to do with bitwise manipulations
[14:59] <number10> its like a single track road rather than an 8 lane road - you can only send one bit at a time
[15:00] <eroomde> 'if (c & 1) rtty_txbit(1);'
[15:00] <eroomde> c is a byte, right?
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[15:00] <eroomde> so it is a binary number 8 digits long
[15:00] <eroomde> eg
[15:00] <eroomde> 01010011
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> ah i see, of course
[15:00] <eroomde> just as a random example
[15:01] <eroomde> and '1' is, in binary, 00000001
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> and that's a series of 0s and 1s to send over radio!
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[15:01] <eroomde> yep!
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> that's fantastic
[15:01] <eroomde> so we want to sedn that byte over the radio
[15:01] <eroomde> we want to know what the right-most chacater is, then send it
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> so im guessing that there is a built in sort of dictionary which has all of the binary equivilents for each charater?
[15:02] <eroomde> then the next one along (immediately to the left), then send that
[15:02] <eroomde> then the next one again
[15:02] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: there is exactly that dicationaryl you're exactly right
[15:02] <eroomde> it's called ascii
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok, does python have this?
[15:03] <eroomde> http://www.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu/~adenton/ExpandingHorizons/EH2005/ascii-binary-chart.gif
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> thank you for that, I'll print it off
[15:03] <ibanezmatt13> can the ascii be accessed in python?
[15:03] <eroomde> python does have this, if you tell it to use ascii. but python is 'high level' as a language, and this sort of thing is considered a bit more 'low level' so python tries to make it so that you don;'t really have to think about this kind of thing
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> i see, but is it possible to do this sort of thing using python?
[15:04] <eroomde> yep certainly
[15:04] <eroomde> in principle
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> brillaint. So, a 1 has a frequency and a 0 has a frequency?
[15:04] <eroomde> yes
[15:04] <eroomde> that's the basic principle behind rtty
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> how can the receiver module determine when to pause between the characters?
[15:05] <eroomde> it's like morse code where you have dit and dah
[15:05] <cuddykid> Hix: the number is "charged capacity"
[15:05] <eroomde> but instead you just have one frequency to be one symbol and another requency to be another thing
[15:05] <ibanezmatt13> or is it because each binary number is of the same lenght?
[15:05] <Hix> in mAh?
[15:05] <cuddykid> must be
[15:05] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: good question
[15:05] <Hix> sounded about right cuddykid
[15:05] <eroomde> you can use things like start and stop bits
[15:05] <eroomde> which are pulses of a slightly different length
[15:06] <cuddykid> yup :) good stuff, provided the battery doesn't blow up, hopefully will work
[15:06] <eroomde> which is how the receiver knows that you've got the start and end of a byte
[15:06] <Hix> what capacity cells you running cuddykid
[15:06] <cuddykid> 5000mAh
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> does the program on that link do that?
[15:06] <Hix> and chat C rate are they?
[15:06] <eroomde> look at that code - can you see the start and stop bit functions?
[15:06] <cuddykid> Hix: advised to charge below 2C
[15:07] <Hix> thats a bit pants, bang it up to 5A then
[15:07] <Hix> thats 1C
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> i can see it saying that in the comments, but I cant see how the receiver would determine that as a start or a stop??
[15:07] <Hix> otherwise 5 hour charge
[15:07] <cuddykid> Hix: ah, I see
[15:07] <Hix> though they'll take 10A for 30 min
[15:07] <Hix> though a 10C cell would take 50A charge
[15:08] <Hix> 3S 5000Ma cuddykid ?
[15:08] <cuddykid> Hix: yep
[15:08] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: you tell it what to expect, basically
[15:08] <Hix> that's gotta weigh a biit
[15:08] <cuddykid> it does
[15:08] <Hix> heh
[15:08] <eroomde> you say 'expect 2 stop bits'
[15:08] <Hix> ive got some 3000 for my plane and they are flying ballast
[15:09] <cuddykid> haha
[15:09] <cuddykid> Hix: http://www.overlander.co.uk/batteries-chargers/lipo-battery.html
[15:09] <eroomde> or you can tell it to expect no stop bits and just hope it synchrosnises at the beginning of the message
[15:09] <eroomde> otherwise you'll get corruption, which does happen
[15:09] <Hix> overlander have been going years
[15:09] <ibanezmatt13> would you do this by saying something like, if you receive three consecutive 0s, then move onto next 8 bits or whatever
[15:09] <Hix> BRC hobbies are really good too cuddykid
[15:09] <Hix> very knowledgable and heplkful
[15:09] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: you can do things like that, this whole topic is called 'line coding'
[15:10] <Hix> they also crossed the channel with an RC plane
[15:10] <Hix> years back
[15:10] <cuddykid> I'll keep that in mind for when I destroy this one :P
[15:10] <eroomde> where you manipulate the data you send to give it characteristics that make it useful for the receiver to synchronise
[15:10] <Hix> a Nigel Hawes Tucano scaled up slightly
[15:10] <cuddykid> nice
[15:10] <eroomde> rtty is very basic though
[15:10] <cuddykid> Hix: so, 5A charge should be what I set it on?
[15:10] <eroomde> and doesn;t implement much of this possible cleverness
[15:10] <Hix> you're better off having multiple packs otherwise its fly charge fly charge ...
[15:10] <eroomde> but it still works ok for our purposes
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> i see. how does the receiver know how to do this. On the example, the program runs on the Arduino, not the receiving PC
[15:10] <cuddykid> Hix: true
[15:10] <Hix> 5A on a 5000mA pack is 1C
[15:11] <Hix> which is standard charge for a liPo
[15:11] <cuddykid> right, I'll go and adjust that :) thanks
[15:11] <Hix> nps
[15:11] <eroomde> in this case (in the wiki code) we send 2 stop bits
[15:11] <cuddykid> Hix: and then it should take 1hr (if empty)?
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[15:11] <Hix> yup
[15:11] <cuddykid> got it :)
[15:12] <Hix> though they are very rarely empty, as that would fubar the pack
[15:12] <eroomde> now you might say 'what if the data has 2 '1's in a row but isn;t actually meant to be the stop bit?'
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[15:12] <Hix> lipo dont like dropping too much
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[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> lost connection there, sorry
[15:12] <Hix> can't remeber exactly but think its ~3.1v per cell
[15:12] <eroomde> well the receiver has to be programmed to be intelligent and say if it's not expecting a stop bit then (eg it thinks it's on 4 out of 8 bits it's expecting in the byte so far) then it must treat it as data rather than the stop bit
[15:13] <Hix> though DO NOT quote me on that figure
[15:13] <eroomde> but the receiver (fldigi) takes care of all that for us
[15:13] <Hix> and never rely on it until you have read up on it
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[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> at home I have a simple radio scanner. The ones people use for listening to Air Traffic Control, are you familiar?
[15:14] <eroomde> yep
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> It has an output to a PC and can listen out on narrow band 434mhz
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> can that be used?
[15:14] <eroomde> if it can receiver single-side-band on 434MHz, you're sorted
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> so if i plugged that into my PC, would the decoding program work?
[15:14] <Hix> cuddy 3v/cell is limit
[15:15] <eroomde> it completely depends on whether or not it can do single side-band (SSB)
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[15:15] <eroomde> not all of them can, many are just fm
[15:15] <Hix> but for longevity dont charge above 1.5C
[15:15] <eroomde> what is the exact model number?
[15:15] <Hix> cuddykid: rcgroups.com is your new friend
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> supposing it can, would I just plug it into my PC. I'm not sure what the model number is but I can get back to you on that later on
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> Alinco? perhaps
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> Alenco?
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> I can't remember
[15:16] <Hix> cuddykid: specifically http://goo.gl/Iv9DY
[15:16] <mfa298> Alinco is a manufacturer of radios
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> That's the one mfa298. Thanks
[15:17] <eroomde> yes, if it can then you just plug it into the line-in jack socket on your pc
[15:17] <Hix> I reckon it's high time for a sunday afternoon pint!!!
[15:17] <mfa298> but you'de need to look up the model number, they make a lot of radios
[15:17] <eroomde> and it should just work with dl-fldigi, our decoding programme
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[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> excellent. eroomde, you have been of great help. I understand so much more about this radio that I ever thought I would, but I must go now
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks you again very very much
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> I appreciate it :)
[15:19] <eroomde> np
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[15:20] <cuddykid> thanks Hix
[15:20] <Hix> nps dude
[15:21] <Hix> I'll be tapping into your APM knowledge soon enough ;p
[15:23] <cuddykid> unfortunately this charger can't go above 5A otherwise I'd pop it on 10A to charge at 2C
[15:31] <eroomde> charing lipos is annoying
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[15:31] <eroomde> t's a black box to me
[15:35] <cuddykid> yeah, it's strange, I thought there would be a 'plug and play' solution, but I was wrong
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[15:48] <cuddykid> got the gobandit on charge to hopefully record some flight footage :)
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[16:14] <chrisstubbs> Joined github at last, wasn't as painful as i expected :)
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[16:58] <cuddykid> https://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/315869348856217600/photo/1 - off to do some flying :)
[16:58] <cuddykid> strapped the gobandit to the top in the hope to record some footage
[16:58] <Upu> make sure you turn it so it captures the crash
[16:59] <Upu> I mean sucessful flight
[16:59] <chrisstubbs> haha
[17:01] <cuddykid> haha :P
[17:02] <cuddykid> can't find my big reel of duct tape, this is not good
[17:03] <daveake> You only have 1 reel???? :p
[17:04] <cuddykid> unfortunately yes
[17:04] <cuddykid> just finished another reel
[17:05] <mfa298> you only had two reels ?
[17:06] <mfa298> i think I've got 4 or 5 reels, although no pink gaffa
[17:06] <daveake> you don't have any pink?????
[17:07] <daveake> I do despair of you lot sometimes :p
[17:07] <fsphil> me neither
[17:07] <fsphil> orange and yellow, nuff for anyone
[17:07] <daveake> :)
[17:07] <daveake> Whatever floats your boat. So long as you don't have any Justin Beiber duct tape then that's ok
[17:08] <fsphil> definitely none of that
[17:08] <daveake> warrants instant UKHAS exclusion
[17:09] <cuddykid> lol
[17:11] <mfa298> ive only got the boring grey and black
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[17:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Paul Swingewood "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March - Walsall, UK"
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[17:35] <cuddykid> back from my adventures.. that didn't go too well lol
[17:35] <chrisstubbs> oh dear
[17:35] <chrisstubbs> what happened?]#
[17:35] <cuddykid> put it this way, I'm a leg down after a hard landing
[17:35] <chrisstubbs> get the glue out
[17:36] <cuddykid> can't find the remainder, all snowy, will have another look later
[17:36] <cuddykid> the thing just took off and before I knew was way up in the air
[17:37] <cuddykid> hopefully it captured some footage - having a look now
[17:38] <cuddykid> woo it did
[17:38] <cuddykid> ouch, horrific landing
[17:39] <Willdude123> Are there actually any members of UKHAS per se?
[17:40] <Morseman> Yes http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:members
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[17:44] <cuddykid> uploading the flight now - will take ~30mins even though only 1 min long due to my horrific connection
[17:48] <zyp> sounds like a normal first flight :)
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[17:48] <cuddykid> trying to get used to how sensitive all the controls are - this is after the RC controller has been set to 40%
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[17:51] <cuddykid> almost flew off into the distance lol
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[17:53] Nick change: Morseman_ -> Morseman
[17:54] <Willdude123> What do you mean uploading the flight?
[17:54] <cuddykid> Willdude123: video of the flight
[17:54] <Willdude123> Oh OK.
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[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I am trying to convert characters such as a, b, 2... into their 8 bit binary equivalent, e.g. 00100011. Is there a way to do this in python?
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[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know how to convert characters into their 8-bit binary equivalents in python?
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> e.g.
[18:15] <arko> hmm
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> a function which turns a '1' into '00000001'
[18:15] <arko> bin()
[18:15] <arko> right?
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[18:15] <DanielRichman> bin(ord('b'))
[18:15] <DanielRichman> might be a start
[18:15] <arko> ord!
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> i tried, bin('a') and it didn't work
[18:16] <arko> import binascii
[18:16] <DanielRichman> has an ugly 0b on the start. You may want to just use ord('b') and then the & operator...
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[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> what does bin(ord('b')) do?
[18:16] <DanielRichman> dunno, try it
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[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> how shall I position the & symbol?
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[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> what is the 0b part?
[18:20] <arko> means its binary
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> i thought the binary of 1 was 00110001?
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> shouldn't that b be a 0
[18:21] <arko> its how the machine knows you mean binary
[18:21] <arko> and not 00110001 the integer
[18:21] <anerDev> hey hey guys ! =D
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> is there any way of getting the full binary equivalent without the b part
[18:22] <arko> sup anerdev
[18:22] <anerDev> wath's sup ? arko
[18:22] <arko> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1395356/how-can-i-make-bin30-return-00011110-instead-of-0b11110
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> ill take a look
[18:23] <arko> nm, working on the reference guide to hand out to the chase/recovery teams
[18:23] <arko> documentation is so boring >_<
[18:23] <arko> i'll be doing some electronics later, setting up a temperature logging box
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> i used this code: bin(1)[2:].zfill(8) and it perfectly returned 00000001, but it doesn't seem to do letters
[18:25] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Does this help convert to/from Bin/ASCII http://docs.python.org/2/library/binascii.html#binascii.b2a_hex
[18:25] <arko> what does it return with letters?
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> an error message
[18:25] <arko> did you do bin('A')?
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[18:26] <arko> hmm
[18:26] <arko> not sure
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> it says string object cannot be represented as index
[18:26] <DanielRichman> bin(ord('A'))[2:].zfill(8)
[18:26] <arko> ord!
[18:26] <arko> haha
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> aha of course
[18:27] <arko> i can't even remember 5 minutes ago, great
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> perfect, thank you very much
[18:27] <arko> good luck
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> What I am trying to do is replicate the tutorial on the following link: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 So, I am using binary conversion to split strings into 0s and 1s ready for radio transmission
[18:29] <lz1dev> in python?
[18:29] <daveake> You don't need to do any of that then :p
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I don't need to?
[18:31] <arko> what a beautiful morning
[18:31] <arko> weather is perfect
[18:31] <daveake> On the Pi, if you try to waggle the NTX2 input up and down at a certain rate, if your Pi does anything else at the same time (e.g. take a picture) your timing will get extended. Because Raspbian isn't a real-time operating system you have no guarantee that your program will run at a certain speed.
[18:32] <daveake> So you can't (say) switch the NTX2 to a "1", then wait 20ms, then switch it to a "0". That 20ms could end up being any time >= 20ms
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> what operating system do you use in your hab flights?
[18:32] <daveake> So what I do, and this isn't the only option but is the simplest, is use the serial port to connect to the NTX2
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> oh I see daveake. This is for an arduino
[18:32] <daveake> So then all you need to do is build the string to send, then send it out of the serial port
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> so I don't need to split it into 1s and 0s?
[18:33] <daveake> Nope
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> are there any resources for sending data using the Pi's serial port. You see, I have never used the Pi's serial port
[18:34] <Willdude123> daveake: Does the serial buffer always push stuff out at a given rate then?
[18:34] <daveake> The telemetry string is already in ASCII and when you send it out of the serial port, the port hardware (a thing called a UART) does the 1's and 0's for you
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[18:34] <daveake> Yes you set a "baud rate"
[18:34] <Willdude123> Oh yeah, I see.
[18:34] <daveake> I don't use Python but it does have a serial library so use that
[18:34] <Willdude123> I wonder about a pi and arduino payload.
[18:35] <daveake> Well my latest does that, but my previous 4 all used the Pi on its own
[18:35] <daveake> I suggest you use the Pi on its own - you'll get it running quicker
[18:35] <Willdude123> As in pi for ssdv pictures, sends them to the arduino for transmission?
[18:35] <daveake> I'm using the Arduino on my latest one only because I want to run 2 radio channels (i.e. 2 NTX2s)
[18:35] <daveake> Yes I do
[18:36] <daveake> See http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi?s[]=raspberry&s[]=pi
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: do you think that using python to send the telemetry will not work?
[18:36] <daveake> It'll work I'm sure
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[18:36] <daveake> As you know it, I'd stick with it if I were you
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> definitely a good idea
[18:36] <craag> Using the Pi serial port in python: serial = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', 9600, timeout=1)
[18:36] <daveake> I used C because I know that, and because my Arduino code is in C. So I just ported it across for the Pi
[18:36] <Willdude123> IDK why I still care about HAB, because I will never be able to do it, most probably. Maybe I'll be able to make a listening station though.
[18:37] <daveake> Yeah but not 9600 for the NTX2 :)
[18:37] <craag> daveake: Nope just showing the syntax is easy :)
[18:37] <Willdude123> I wonder if I'll be able to in time for Dave's next Pi payload launch.
[18:38] <craag> Willdude123: A decent tracking station would be well appreciated!
[18:38] <Willdude123> daveake: One channel for tracking and the other for SSDV.
[18:38] <Willdude123> *?
[18:38] <daveake> No, both for both actually
[18:38] <Willdude123> craag: I don't know if it'd be decent.
[18:38] <Willdude123> Oh OK.
[18:38] <daveake> The idea is to get more bandwidth so I can send larger pictures
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> serial = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', 9600, timeout=1) may i ask what this does?
[18:38] <Willdude123> Are you interleaving them between 2 channels then?
[18:39] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Sorry, it's to give you a *rough* idea of how to use the serial on the Pi.
[18:39] <daveake> No, I tried that and it works but isn't good for anyone watching the images download
[18:39] <craag> I used it, at 9600 baud, to talk to a ublox gps in a project a while back.
[18:39] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[18:40] <Willdude123> Would ssdv work quicker if it was the only data being broadcast?
[18:41] <daveake> Not much
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> so if i use the serial library in Python, what are the stages sending a sentence over the NTX2 transmitter to a receiver and then the PC with that software?
[18:42] <Willdude123> How frequent will your images be on the next payload and what resolution?
[18:42] <daveake> Well, you need to get the GPS data, then build a sentence containing the payload name, position etc
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[18:42] <daveake> When you've got that, calculate a checksum (preferably CRC-16 and you can get a library for that I'm sure) to add to the end
[18:42] <cuddykid> today's hex flight that didn't end well -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkt7724gg6jaiod/Hex%20Flight.mov
[18:43] <daveake> Then you simply send it to the serial port
[18:43] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Are you using an SDR?
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> what is an sdr?
[18:43] <daveake> Willdude123 Approx 800 x 500 every 4.5 mins
[18:44] <Willdude123> cuddykid: That a quadrocopter?
[18:44] <cuddykid> Willdude123: hexacopter
[18:44] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: You can use a tv tuner and antenna for receiving signals.
[18:45] <Willdude123> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, i didnt know that
[18:46] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Note, only certain usb tv tuners, not all. There are quite a few different ones that work though, commonly referred to as 'rtl-sdr's
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> ok thanks
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[18:49] <fsphil> busy here today
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[18:52] <Willdude123> Oh noes. Laurenceb.
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[18:53] <Willdude123> cuddykid: Did you build it?
[18:53] <cuddykid> Willdude123: yep
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> Are there any tutorials on how to use the Raspberry Pi's serial port to transmit data using the NTX2 transmitter
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[18:54] <fsphil> hardware wise, it's the same as connecting the arduino and ntx2
[18:54] <daveake> No, but the electrical side is just the same as on the Arduino, using the Tx pin on the GPIO block
[18:54] <fsphil> except you use the serial ports TX line
[18:55] <daveake> For software you just send the data to the serial port as we discussed earlier
[18:55] <daveake> And that's that - very simple
[18:55] <fsphil> which seems oddly easy in python
[18:55] <fsphil> I need to start using it more
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> how does it go in Python?
[18:55] <daveake> ditto
[18:55] <daveake> dunno but just google for "python serial port" there'll be loads of stuff I'm sure
[18:55] <fsphil> yea
[18:56] <fsphil> thanks zeusbot
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> so, what does the serial port actually do? You mentioned earlier that it converts the data into 0s and 1s
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[18:56] <daveake> That's it
[18:56] <daveake> Well it's 2 way, so you can receive data too
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> so in my program, let's say I wanted to send the letter 'a' from my Pi via the NTX2 to a receiver and decode it
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> using the serial, what would be the basic stages?
[18:58] <daveake> I don't know Python, but from a command shell you'd do:
[18:58] <daveake> echo a > /dev/ttyAMA0
[18:58] <arko> UUGGGGGG are you kidding!? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a66a057d18ddb4a9be5add9e1078406d61f66662
[18:58] <arko> the only lake in like 300 miles
[18:58] <zyp> s = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', baudrate)
[18:58] <arko> and my hab is dead center for it
[18:58] <zyp> s.write('a')
[18:58] <daveake> In Python you'll need to open the port, setting the baud rate (300 is good), then write/print to the port
[18:59] <daveake> ^^ wot zyp sez
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> that simple?
[18:59] <zyp> yes.
[18:59] <daveake> that simple
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[18:59] <daveake> The Arduino stuff you read is simply doing the UART's job in software
[18:59] <Hix> thats goosed it arko ;p
[18:59] <fsphil> you know, if I made an ssdv module in python this would all be too easy ;)
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> s = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', baudrate) followed by s.write('a')
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> is that it?
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[18:59] <daveake> fsphil yes TOO easy :)
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:00] <daveake> yes that's it
[19:00] <Hix> hello Lunar_Lander
[19:00] <arko> Hix: super lame of the balloon
[19:00] <fsphil> howdy LL
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> so, if i put that in my program, thats all I literally have to do?? would that send the 8 bits for that letter across radio?
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> like 00011010
[19:00] <daveake> That would do it
[19:00] <Hix> arko, worry not - it'll find a tree instead
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> wow, that's fantastic
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> let me write that down :)
[19:01] <daveake> :)
[19:01] <fsphil> the serial port should default to 8-bit
[19:01] <arko> His ahaha
[19:01] <fsphil> but maybe not 2 stop bits
[19:01] <craag> Should be 8N1
[19:02] <fsphil> for 300 baud fldigi prefers > 1
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13> oh, fsphill you have reminded me. how do you do stop and start bits so that the receiver knows that you have reached the end of a character?
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[19:02] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: the hardware serial port will handle all that for you
[19:02] <fsphil> but you might have to tell it how many stop bits you want
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: you mentioned making an ssdv module. what a great idea ;)
[19:03] <daveake> UARTS can usually be set to 5,7 or 8 data bits, plus 1 or 2 stop bits
[19:03] <fsphil> hah, which is just s.stopbits = TOPBITS_TWO
[19:03] <fsphil> there is an s.bytesize too
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> i see.
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> why can't it have 2 million bits?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:04] <fsphil> but it's 8-bits by default
[19:04] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: you *could*
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> thats good, ill stick to that
[19:04] <fsphil> but you'd be waiting for the start/stop bits for a while :)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:05] <fsphil> yea the default pyserial setup is fine, just need to set it for two stop bits
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> i just lost connection and the previous messages seem to have gone!
[19:05] <fsphil> and the baud rate, 9600 is too fast
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> what was that code by arko about the serial
[19:05] <arko> ?
[19:05] <arko> what did i do?
[19:05] <fsphil> it was zyp
[19:05] <fsphil> zyp | s = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', baudrate)
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> that was it. thanks fsphil. Sorry arko
[19:06] <fsphil> zyp | s.write('a')
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[19:06] <Upu> seems to be tilted over cuddykid
[19:06] <Upu> not trimmed correctly ?
[19:07] <cuddykid> Upu: correct, yeah, I was trying to get it stabilised so I can do the auto trim (hover stable for a few secs)
[19:07] <cuddykid> however, never got to that stage :P
[19:07] <cuddykid> going to pop some styrofoam legs on and give it another whirl tomorrow
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[19:07] <Upu> anything damaged ?
[19:07] <fsphil> oooh video
[19:07] <cuddykid> Upu: only 1 leg destroyed
[19:07] <cuddykid> could have been a lot worse
[19:07] <fsphil> oooh snow
[19:08] <Hix> you had some cfig action cuddykid
[19:08] <cuddykid> Hix: what's cfig?
[19:08] <Hix> controlled flight into ground :)
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> so what do I connect the Raspberry Pi's serial port to on the NTX2?
[19:08] <cuddykid> ah, yes!
[19:08] <Hix> doh!
[19:08] <Hix> noit too bad by soinds
[19:08] <Hix> typing good
[19:08] <Upu> gimmie a sec ibanezmatt13
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> okie dokie
[19:09] <fsphil> you got a good 15/20 metres altitude there
[19:09] <Hix> safest up there tbh
[19:09] <cuddykid> fsphil: yep, shot up - wasn't planning that
[19:09] <Hix> ground effect is an evil beast
[19:09] <cuddykid> that was part of the problem, was trying to bring it down and it all got a bit too much lol
[19:09] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wd1xo8likdggz6/PiNChipsV2.pdf
[19:09] <Upu> try that ibanezmatt13
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[19:10] <Hix> you really should by phoenixsim cuddykid trust me you'll earn the dough back in saved parts
[19:10] <Upu> oh hang on
[19:10] <Upu> wrong one
[19:10] <Upu> well NTX2 connections are on there
[19:10] <Hix> and its so accurate
[19:10] <cuddykid> Hix: I was just looking at sims actually
[19:10] <Hix> you can change stability so its on a knifedge
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> is that the right one? the top left diagram?
[19:10] <Hix> cant rate phoenix highly enough
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[19:11] <Hix> bought it 5 years ago and still get all the latest updates
[19:11] <Hix> not sure on quad models atm though, they should cover a few tho
[19:11] <Hix> and they just keep adding and adding
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: does that use the Pi's serial port?
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[19:14] <Upu> yes
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> where is the serial port on that schematic?
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> is it the rxd1?
[19:15] <Upu> yes
[19:16] <Upu> connected to pin 8 TX on the Pi
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> so pin 8 tx on the pi is connected to txd on the NTX2 as per the diagram
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[19:17] <Upu> yes
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13> i see, thanks
[19:18] <arko> man, i wish i had an error ring around the landing zone for these predictions
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> i really didn't think it was as simple as that. So, if i connect my Pi to the NTX2 exactly as per the diagram you provided connecting RXD1 as pin 8 on the Pi, and using the following commands s = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyAMA0', baudrate) and s.write('a') would that send 'A 'over radio
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> would I be able to decode this with that software and a receiver?>
[19:21] <daveake> yes
[19:21] <daveake> For a receiver you can use one of these TV SDR dongles, or a "real" receiver with "SSB" capability
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> fantastic. I'll give this a go over the next few days.
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: I already have a "real" receiver with SSB capability thankfully! :)
[19:22] <daveake> ah good which one?
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[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know the full name, but I asked my Dad and he said it would work fine. All I know is it's an Alinco.
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> If by some chance it didn't work, I'll just get one that you reccomend on the ukhas site
[19:23] <daveake> OK I don't know any Alinco receivers, but SSB is a fairly rare feature unfortunately
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> I can't wait until the Summer Daveake. I'm so glad that you forwarded me to this chatsite! I must go now unfortunately. :(
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'll be sure to check in soon. Thanks for the continued support! :)
[19:25] <daveake> np
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[19:27] <chrisstubbs> Hix: github is up and running. Hows tinygps going?
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Oh quit. i missed that :P
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[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> Hows it going Lunar_Lander?
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[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, studying quantum mechanics
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[19:56] <eroomde> or are you?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> you mean because of Heisenberg?
[19:57] <eroomde> i suppose
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> haha perhaps there is a parallel universe where we are all actually balloons, and we launch people...
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[19:57] <eroomde> we will soon run into the fact that i don;t know any quantummechanics
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> Heisenberg simply says that you cannot know momentum and place of a particle for sure
[19:58] <eroomde> i can take the fourier transform of a gassian distribution though, and thus show heisenberg
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> Im pretty good thanks, payload coding seems to be going according to plan for a change.
[19:58] <eroomde> assuming a fourier relationship between momentum and position
[19:58] <eroomde> which i just have to take at face value
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:59] <arko> man, i documenting sucks im tired
[19:59] <eroomde> i don;t imagine it's worth doing documentation if you're typing like that :)
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[20:00] <arko> s/i //
[20:00] <arko> :P
[20:00] <arko> s/ks/ks,/
[20:00] <arko> there we go
[20:00] <arko> nothing regex can't fix
[20:01] <Upu> My mates went out for a drive : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou5ycUaCFp0&feature=youtu.be
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[20:01] <arko> haha
[20:01] <arko> DENIED
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[20:02] <daveake> wimp - I was waiting for a run-up
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[20:04] <Upu> lol
[20:04] <Upu> X5 with Snow tyres on
[20:04] <Upu> however snow drift will win
[20:04] <daveake> it will
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[20:06] <eroomde> i hope our climate changes to the extent that getting a snow-mobile becomes a financially sensible proposition
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[20:12] <chrisstubbs> Upu, your Pava code is very clever. starting to understand most of it now!
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> do you not power cycle the RFM22b though?
[20:13] <Dan-K2VOL> chrisstubbs doing that causes a massive frequency shift
[20:13] <_ed> Evening all so i at the early stages in my project and was wondering what peoples recomenations are on decent hd video cameras that are good forsending up with a balloon?
[20:14] <chrisstubbs> Dan-K2VOL, ah right! Is there another solution to the problem of it packing up?
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[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah _ed so many people send up good cameras
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> what about sending up a crap camera?
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> that would be fun
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> lol Lunar_Lander, we all did that for a while
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> till there were good cameras
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[20:16] Action: chrisstubbs hides crappy 808 cam
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[20:18] <mattbrejza> _ed: most people put gopros but we recently flew a contour roam 2 that gave nice video
[20:18] <Dan-K2VOL> would be neat to see someone fly the ArduEye vision sensor http://centeye.com/products/ardueye-aphid-vision-sensor/
[20:18] <Willdude123> Is the make magazine guide to yagi building the best?
[20:18] <mattbrejza> its cheaper and waterproof
[20:18] <mattbrejza> and also didnt over expose cloud like that gopro does
[20:18] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, not seen that one, link?
[20:20] <Upu> Hey Chris
[20:20] <Upu> which version are you looking at ?
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> R7 on github
[20:21] <Upu> oh thats quite old
[20:21] <Upu> new code does all sorts of fancy stuff power cycles RFM22B etc
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> ooo
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> just been speaking to Dan-K2VOL about it
[20:22] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah sorry I thought he meant shutting the RFM off completely inbetween transmissions
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> would it be a good idea to power off for 1.5 seconds every 100 lines?
[20:22] <Upu> new code power cycles it every 20
[20:22] <Upu> its off for about 0.5 second
[20:23] <chrisstubbs> Ok cool, and you just do that by putting SDN high and disabling transmissions in that period?
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> BTW with the ardueye vision chip you could get pretty near to 1 frame per second video I think, black and white and terrible resolution, but might be neat
[20:23] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: http://blog.makezine.com/projects/homemade-yagi-antenna/
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, ardueye looks cool!
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[20:24] <Upu> not even sure that code does interrupt driven RTTY chrisstubbs ?
[20:24] <mclane> upu - I would like to take a look to your new code - where can I find it?
[20:24] <Willdude123> What's interrupt driven RTTY?
[20:24] <mclane> github?
[20:24] <Upu> nah I haven't published it
[20:24] <Upu> 1 sec
[20:25] <chrisstubbs> Upu yes R7 uses the timer
[20:26] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/Ava/tree/master/fc0334_PavaR7_PAVA_550
[20:26] <Upu> use at your own risk
[20:26] <Upu> in fact don't use it write your own :)
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> hah
[20:27] <arko> if anyone has time and wants to look this over
[20:27] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/images/HABEX2_Reference_Guide_BETA.pdf
[20:27] <arko> its the handout im giving to each station/chase team
[20:27] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/images/HABEX2_Checklist_Before_Launch_BETA.pdf
[20:27] <arko>
[20:27] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/images/HABEX_Packing_List_BETA.pdf
[20:27] <arko> those are the checklist and packing list
[20:28] <arko> Spoz: ^
[20:28] <arko> might be helpful
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[20:30] <eroomde> avr/tree/master
[20:30] <eroomde> ava*
[20:30] <eroomde> the greatest Ent of them all
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[20:36] <Willdude123> Upu: Are you a youtube partner? I get ads on your videos.
[20:36] <Dan-K2VOL> the ArduEye Aphid is 112 x 112 pixels
[20:37] <Upu> Hey Willdude123 some are enabled for ads yes
[20:37] <Upu> thought I think I might just turn them all off
[20:37] <Upu> I made $20 last year :)
[20:37] <Upu> not withdrawn it
[20:38] <Willdude123> How many views have they gotta have?
[20:39] <Upu> depends which one
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[20:39] <Upu> 39k on the HD PIE1 launch
[20:41] <Upu> right bbl
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> Laters Upu, cheers for the code :)
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> think ive got it working
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, sorry just been skim reading that make article
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> is the antenna tuned to 434mhz?
[20:55] <_ed> Thanks for that, i was thinking a go pro but will now have a look into the contour roam 2. Thanks
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, they say UHF which would indicated 434 to me, so it should be good!
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> yeah its designed for sat. downlink on the 430mhz band. Thats what you need :)
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[21:04] <Willdude123> Does any yagi work? Like a wifi yagi?
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> wifi yagis are tuned to 2.4ghz
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> so they would not be effective on 434mhz
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[21:09] <Willdude123> How is an antenna tuned?
[21:10] <Randomskk> its physical size makes it resonate at only one frequency
[21:10] <Randomskk> not unlike a tuning fork
[21:10] <Willdude123> I see.
[21:11] <Randomskk> tuning forks are sound, though, which is slow - 330m/s or so in air
[21:11] <Randomskk> antennas are for EM, which is fast, like very fast (speed of light fast)
[21:11] <Randomskk> which is why an antenna that might be a middle C (440Hz) in sound is like 440MHz in EM
[21:11] <Randomskk> but it's the same kind of principle
[21:12] <Willdude123> I need some good HAB videos to watch...
[21:14] <Willdude123> Or blogs
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[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I am using fswebcam to take an image and save it on my Raspberry Pi. This will later be used for a HAB flight. I am following this tutorial: http://www.slblabs.com/2012/09/26/rpi-webcam-stream/ The program is working but at the end of the image processing it says 'there are unsaved changes.'
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know how I can use fswebcam to save a picture to the Pi's home directory every say 30 seconds
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> ?
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[21:20] <chrisstubbs> sounds like fsphils department!
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> indeed it is :)
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> Do you know how to use fswebcam? A simple bash script?
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> I have no idea im afraid, i know a little tiny bit about SSDV from what he has taught me but nothing on fswebcam
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[21:27] <anerDev> hello guys !
[21:27] <anerDev> Who would like to watch my alpha board for my future ballon ?
[21:27] <anerDev> =D
[21:27] <anerDev> fsphil upu ?
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[21:28] <Willdude123> What do you mean? Would people like to see it?
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[21:30] <anerDev> yes !
[21:30] <anerDev> I'm uploading
[21:30] <chrisstubbs> Go ahead anerDev :)
[21:33] <Morseman> BTW - Satelight band on 70cm for FM downlinks is in 435/436MHz area but looking at those designs should be OK on 434MHz especially if only for receiving
[21:33] Nick change: forrestv_ -> forrestv
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[21:34] <ali_> hi all, seems like all bits are ready for a launch on Tuesday for WASP!!
[21:34] <ali_> IF the weather is kind
[21:34] <Upu> I'll sort Spacenear.us out tomorrow ali_
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> ali_, awesome! best of luck
[21:34] <ali_> thanks
[21:35] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:35] <Morseman> Actual frequencies used for various satellites available on AMSAT or this website http://purplesage.biz/kd0hkd/satellite/SatFreq.htm
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[21:35] <ali_> all i have to do is hook up the nylon cord
[21:35] <ali_> oh
[21:35] <ali_> here is a question
[21:36] <ali_> the antenna hanging down, I think i should not have it hanging down without some sort of 'casing'
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[21:36] <ali_> it seems that if the box landed on it, then it gets squished
[21:36] <ali_> which means that we can't find the bugger!
[21:36] <ali_> is what i just said the accepted wisdom, or should i not bother?
[21:37] <mattbrejza> make sure the weight of the antenna isnt on the coax connector either
[21:37] <ali_> no, that would be ok
[21:37] <ali_> it is light anyway
[21:37] <M0TVU> Is this a wire antenna?
[21:37] <ali_> y
[21:38] <ali_> just a wire, with the braid put into 4 bunches
[21:38] <ali_> and a centre bit hanging down
[21:38] <ali_> well, i say hanging, i was going to reinforce it into shape
[21:38] <ali_> with plastic drinking straws
[21:38] <M0TVU> Then why not run the antenna along the cord to the parachute. always facing up and when landed its not going to on the bottom at least
[21:39] <ali_> hmmm
[21:39] <ali_> interesting idea
[21:39] <M0TVU> I'm a newbie just seems to make sense to me
[21:39] <ali_> i thought to get it out of the way of gps
[21:39] <ali_> and hanging down, the ground plane is above it
[21:40] <M0TVU> I have been building and testing a GPS to RTTY beacon the last few nights and I have no interference from either.
[21:40] <ali_> so, the ground plane is not 'shielding' the hot bit from al those lovely observers on the ground
[21:40] <mattbrejza> the payload could land either way up tbh
[21:40] <ali_> is gps 1.7GHz?
[21:40] <mattbrejza> antennas always bend on landing
[21:41] <mattbrejza> just make sure the gnd cant short to rf
[21:41] <ali_> y, so i figured that i should put a foam tube around the hot bit, so when landing on the bottom, it flips the box on its side
[21:42] <ali_> it is just 'another' thing to do
[21:42] <ali_> and i am not short of them!!
[21:42] <M0TVU> I was going to make my 70 cm antenna a dipole with stiff plastic tube running above the box
[21:43] <mattbrejza> a dipole will be 3dB down on a 1/4 wave though?
[21:43] <M0TVU> really?
[21:43] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:43] <ali_> oh?
[21:43] <M0TVU> ok then thats a bad idea
[21:43] <ali_> glad i got a 1/4 L
[21:43] <mattbrejza> it radiates 360o or so rahter than 180o like a 1/4 wave whip w/ gnd plane
[21:44] <ali_> need all the db you can get, with 10mW
[21:45] <mattbrejza> can you attach the radials of the antenna to the box to keep them mostly in place on landing?
[21:45] <anerDev> http://imgur.com/GOmb73A,FOY1uz6,42gRpZW,8fEMXPg
[21:45] <anerDev> the photo gallery !
[21:45] <Morseman> What makes you say a 1/4 wave has 'gain' over a dipole?
[21:46] <ali_> y, the ground radials will be stuck on the box
[21:46] <ali_> just the hot bit is dangling
[21:46] <M0TVU> I'd like to know that?
[21:46] <anerDev> chrisstubbs http://imgur.com/GOmb73A,FOY1uz6,42gRpZW,8fEMXPg
[21:46] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt worry too much then
[21:47] <mattbrejza> its probably nearer 2dB in practice
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> woahh thats a neat stack!
[21:47] <mattbrejza> but a dipole radiates more 'upwards' than a 1/4 wave whip
[21:47] <Morseman> Ah, I see now " As the reactive part is also divided by 2, the impedance of a quarter-wave antenna is \scriptstyle{{73+i43\over 2}=36+i21} ohms. Since the fields above ground are the same as for the dipole, but only half the power is applied, the gain is twice (3dB over) that of a half-wave dipole (\scriptstyle{{\lambda\over 2}}), that is, 5.14 dBi."
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[21:48] <M0TVU> lovely
[21:48] <mattbrejza> yea also a diplole isnt a 50ohm match
[21:50] <M0TVU> interesting...
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> anerDev, what does each board do, from top to bottom
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> i see GPS sheild, SD sheild, ntx2 and somthing else..
[21:51] <Morseman> Normally assume a dipole (other than folder type) is about 73 ohms
[21:51] <Morseman> folded
[21:52] <anerDev> from the bottom to the top: Mega, Sd Shield, GPS/GSM Shield with SIM908 module, a shield with 2 ne555 for create a acustic beep (linked to the tweeter) and a connector shield with ntx2 and 1 IDC connector
[21:52] <anerDev> in the shield in the right there are barometric sensor MPL115A2, humidity DHT22, temperature DS18B20
[21:52] <anerDev> led status red and speaket (tweeter) connection
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> awesome!
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> i would be worried about those boards coming apart in flight though, thats a lot of connections!
[21:54] <M0TVU> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpUeo6ZFPFk - this my bit on the development board - The prototype is being tested tomorrow from the top of Fort Dunlop Birmingham - listen out for it.
[21:55] <Morseman> Hummmm. If using something like NTX2 output = 50 ohm, so would guess not get 5.14dBi if attach 50 ohm output to a 36 +j21 ohm impedance antenna...
[21:56] <ali_> y, upu suggested that i solder connections to my arduino, i'm following that advice
[21:56] <Morseman> adding matching components increases losses as well...
[21:58] <anerDev> good night guys !
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[22:00] <ali_> here is the little bugger! http://www.flickr.com/photos/azzawi/8586530933/in/photostream
[22:00] <M0TVU> Bed time me thinks. Early to work in the morning.
[22:01] <ali_> the antenna comes out of the centre hole, and gets fed into the tx board
[22:01] <ali_> i will make sure the powe connector is velcroed on to the computer
[22:02] <ali_> aside from that, it should be all there
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[22:04] <arko> quick question, how easy is it to spot a HAB that has touched down in the desert?
[22:05] <arko> or in the sky as it's coming down?
[22:05] <Morseman> Arko - Depends what colour you paint the box I guess
[22:05] <arko> pink
[22:05] <Morseman> Yellow/sand colour not too good
[22:05] <ali_> go for black
[22:06] <ali_> stripy black and yellow
[22:06] <Morseman> Black not good for temp inside the box I would guess
[22:06] <ali_> classic, for high vis
[22:06] <ali_> any dark colour would suffer from teh same
[22:06] <ali_> so, if the background is light, and you want contrast, then ....
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[22:07] <Morseman> Opposite of camoflage - any primay colour that is opposite to natural terrain colour i think
[22:07] <Morseman> primary
[22:09] <Morseman> Maybe reflective panels might help - Like stuff on high vis jackets
[22:09] <Morseman> so any sunlight stricking it gets reflected off and can see a way off
[22:09] <Morseman> striking
[22:11] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March - Walsall, UK"
[22:11] <ali_> y, interesting idea. however, although it would glint nicely, you would have to be at the right angle to get a strong reflection from the sun, if a facetted surface This is the principle of stealth. So, if you want to get lots of glints, make it uneven surface
[22:11] <Morseman> Upu favours bright pink for his payloads in UK
[22:11] <ali_> crumpled aluminium
[22:11] <ali_> well, we know about upu :-)
[22:12] <Morseman> I wondered about thos reflective panels used on front and back of bikes?
[22:12] <Morseman> those
[22:12] <Upu> sticky reflective tape
[22:12] <ali_> y, they are 'crumpled' reflectors
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[22:22] <KF7FER> so Upu... kinda really OT here but on the topic of Eagle, round PCBs, and LEDs... take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzIv9byamAw
[22:23] <KF7FER> the first set of boards I designed and built... one is a lilypad w/ a TLC5940 and the other has a pair of TLC5940's and 32 LEDs
[22:23] <KF7FER> a bit old school, but from the TV show "Lost in Space" and designed to fit an 18" plastic model of the Jupiter 2
[22:27] <KF7FER> the video shows 3 sets of boards running slightly different effects
[22:32] <Upu> hey Brad
[22:32] <Upu> interesting
[22:32] <Upu> looks good :)
[22:33] <fsphil> sweet
[22:33] <Upu> I've never done blinkenlights so its about time :)
[22:34] <fsphil> that's the perfect voice for "In a world..."
[22:38] <KF7FER> thanks
[22:38] <KF7FER> looks really cool in person too
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[22:38] <chrisstubbs> stupid div tags that pop up on every other website you visit asking you to fill out their stupid survey should be banned
[22:39] <fsphil> simple enough to interface with those LED drivers?
[22:39] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: so true
[22:39] <KF7FER> fsphil: really easy. Basically SPI and there is a nice library for driving them
[22:40] <KF7FER> http://code.google.com/p/tlc5940arduino/
[22:40] <KF7FER> simple enough a young (young=old and fat) geek could build it himself :-)
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> Filled out their survey. I hope someone reads than and leaves their job
[22:42] <Willdude123> Upu: Isn't blinkenlights that fake German thing?
[22:42] <fsphil> I went onto a webpage looking for some info and within 5 seconds of reading it a full screen popup appeared asking "Is this information useful?"
[22:42] <fsphil> fake?
[22:42] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights
[22:43] <fsphil> the german one is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blinkenlights
[22:43] <fsphil> and it's quite real
[22:43] <Willdude123> towel.blinkenlights.nl was the URL of telnet star wars.
[22:44] <chrisstubbs> TfL asked how their website could be improved. I told them to delete all the pages and replace it with a massive PDF file
[22:44] <Willdude123> ACHTUNG!
[22:44] <Willdude123> ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
[22:44] <Willdude123> DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
[22:44] <Willdude123> Sorry.
[22:44] <chrisstubbs> please lord let the follow that suggestion
[22:44] <Willdude123> Didn't realise the length.
[22:45] <Willdude123> fsphil: that ^
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[22:46] <fsphil> yea just reading that on wikipedia
[22:47] <fsphil> I only ever knew of the CCC project
[22:48] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: I doubt that'd work.
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, shame :(
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> going to have a go at that antenna then?
[22:49] <Willdude123> Think so.
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> Tracking is good fun
[22:49] <Willdude123> If my parents let me.
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> gahhh parents
[22:50] <Willdude123> Hoping to have it working in time for PIE5
[22:54] <fsphil> mmmm pie
[22:54] <fsphil> it certainly is one of the most novel payload cases ever
[22:57] <Willdude123> What happened to the UKHAS glider project?
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[23:01] <chrisstubbs> night guys
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[23:03] <fsphil> sounds like a plan
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> taking a break from studying now
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[23:23] <arko> http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20944/lot/214/
[23:23] <arko> i've heard this soup is out of this world
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[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[23:26] <arko> sup lunar
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[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> bit tired and you?
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[23:32] <Willdude123> Have cameras ever been on pico payloads?
[23:33] <arko> about the same
[23:33] <arko> my calendar looks terrifying
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> and my exam is on wednesday
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> only 37 pages to read :)
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[23:34] <arko> oh fun!
[23:34] <arko> finished my thursday
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> I hope I won't die or so
[23:35] <arko> you'll live
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[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[23:38] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/DDZqh7I.png
[23:38] <arko> it's going to be a busy week
[23:39] <arko> a lot of it is very general
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 25 2013