highaltitude.log.20130322

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[00:17] <jarod> Is it possible to "use" DGPS stations? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS
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[01:39] <arko> evening
[01:40] <nigelvh> Yo
[02:03] <jarod> i still cant explain why 279 khz belarus radio is boosting signals from russia so strong on the same frequency, because when 279khz belarus goes off air, the russian voices go away as well.... :/
[02:03] <jarod> maybe Darkside knows? :P
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[02:22] <SpeedEvil> are you sure the signal is actually on the same frequency?
[02:23] <SpeedEvil> not an intermodulation product?
[02:28] <jarod> i receive in Amsterdam ... i dout it...
[02:28] <jarod> i have a perseus receiver
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[02:35] <KF7FER> So I had this set of boards fabbed that feature a chip antenna... my first use of the chip antenna btw. The result was https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/images/bozochip.png
[02:35] <KF7FER> so does anyone think that will work?
[02:36] <KF7FER> I'm pretty sure the antenna should be 100% free from the copper pours
[02:36] <Randomskk> pull back the ground plane directly under the antenna trace
[02:36] <Randomskk> but yes that looks reasonable
[02:36] <Randomskk> I think.
[02:37] <KF7FER> well I hate to populate the board and find out I can't get a fix
[02:37] <Randomskk> if you ask at a time when more of the channel are awake someone who's actually used one can probably chip in
[02:38] <KF7FER> good idea :-)
[02:38] <KF7FER> here is rev 2 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/images/lessbozochip.png
[02:38] <KF7FER> I'm thinking of just using the current set as a $12 parting gift of 3 very small coasters :-)
[02:39] <Randomskk> if that's the only difference I don't think it will make any odds
[02:40] <KF7FER> really? but the 2nd design is how I should have done it, right?
[02:40] <KF7FER> I already had a set of them sent off for fab too
[02:40] <Randomskk> a handy rule of thumb for RF is that if your trace is less than 1/16th the wavelength of the highest frequency of interest, it doesn't really matter very much what it looks like
[02:41] <Randomskk> you're right in that the second design is 'better'
[02:41] <Randomskk> but I would expect the first design to work essentially just as well
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[02:41] <Randomskk> and even in the second design, you should ideally remove the ground plane from underneath and directly next to the signal trace
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[02:43] <KF7FER> I'm sorry, you mean before the end of the MAX-6?
[02:43] <KF7FER> or at that point?
[02:43] <KF7FER> I'm just comparing the 2nd design to Upu's MAX-6 breakouts and that seems to be what he does
[02:44] <KF7FER> the current post at http://ava.upuaut.net/ shows his design
[02:44] <KF7FER> mine should be really close - at least as far as the antenna goes
[02:44] <KF7FER> or should the antenna trace be longer?
[02:45] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/lessbozochip.png
[02:46] <Randomskk> I'm saying you "should" remove all ground plane on top and bottom sides in the highlighted area
[02:46] <Randomskk> but I am also saying that your first revision is fine too
[02:46] <Randomskk> and that it won't make all that much difference
[02:52] <KF7FER> oh... ok, sorry. And that's good news, thanks. Now I understand :-)
[02:53] <KF7FER> kinda subtle but I get it now
[02:53] <Randomskk> radio stuff tends to be
[02:53] <Randomskk> you can imagine the entire trace going to the antenna as being a part of the radio system
[02:53] <Randomskk> then it becomes more apparent why it might have to be treated with care
[02:54] <Randomskk> having ground plane underneath it changes its characteristics -- it adds capacitive coupling to ground, which changes the impedance, which can set up reflections or lose signal, ...
[02:56] <KF7FER> hmmm... thanks for the info. I'll have to revist my other designs and make changes. Seems worth the effort.
[02:56] <KF7FER> I've made the same mistake with a SL1202 and an U.FL connector
[02:56] <Randomskk> it's not always as simple as that though.. sometimes you design your traces to have a specific impedance so they act as transmission lines
[02:56] <Randomskk> and in that case you often _do_ want ground planes underneath them -- you just design for that.
[02:57] <KF7FER> for transmission right... I'm used to that for the HX1. Was another lesson there I'm afraid. But again your 1/16 "rule of thumb" saved me from most of the fallout
[02:57] <Randomskk> it is a handy rule of thumb
[02:59] <KF7FER> I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of that rule when I was doing the gps antenna trace.
[02:59] <Randomskk> that trace is so small it really doesn't matter. amusingly the antenna itself is pretty much small enough to count!
[02:59] <Randomskk> but chipscale antennas are special magic.
[03:00] <KF7FER> I just don't want to have to desolder another MAX-6 again so chip antennas terrify me
[03:00] <Randomskk> heh
[03:00] <Randomskk> understandable
[03:01] <KF7FER> but I was lucky and saved not only the MAX-6, but the SL1202 and it's plastic mounting bracket. That will likely never happen again in my lifetime
[03:01] <Randomskk> !
[03:01] <Randomskk> good going
[03:01] <Randomskk> the plastic mounting bracket especially, wow
[03:01] <Randomskk> those things fall apart you so much as look at 'em funny
[03:01] <KF7FER> and I superglued it! but it was really old glue. And no kidding! I broke 3 out of the first 4 I installed
[03:02] <KF7FER> then again my last board that mount just slid on perfectly. I don't understand it.
[03:02] <KF7FER> I'm glad they are going away
[03:02] <KF7FER> fortune favors the fools I guess :-)
[03:02] <Randomskk> the new design is much better
[03:03] <KF7FER> ok, thanks. If I run another set I'll fix the bottom ground pour as well
[03:06] <KF7FER> I can't imagine how those antennas work. Looks like magic
[03:08] <Randomskk> if you ever have access to an x-ray machine, try it out
[03:08] <Randomskk> some are outstanding
[03:09] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering making a 100kV 10mA PSU
[03:09] <Randomskk> here's the insides of one http://makezineblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/xbeeantennacu.png
[03:09] <SpeedEvil> 0-100kV
[03:09] <SpeedEvil> x-ray related
[03:11] <KF7FER> what's not to love about x-rays... other than the whole specs thing
[03:12] <SpeedEvil> above is basically for insane Jacobs ladder
[03:12] <SpeedEvil> and screwing with xray tubes and improvised caps
[03:13] <KF7FER> interesting. I've seen PCB antennas like that and it never occurred to me that they were the same as chip antennas
[03:13] <Randomskk> chip antennas are just PCB antennas on carefully controlled substrates
[03:13] <Randomskk> PCB substrate tends to be less well specified
[03:13] <KF7FER> and much smaller
[03:13] <Randomskk> some are not - RF PCBs have the entire substrate very carefully impedance controlled
[03:13] <Randomskk> not always smaller! just depends on wavelength
[03:13] <Randomskk> those chip antennas are almost all made exactly like a PCB and then cut up
[03:14] <Randomskk> just on specialised substrates with carefully controlled copper weights and so forth
[03:14] <heathkid> some can take up a LOT of board space
[03:14] <Randomskk> yup
[03:14] <KF7FER> never saw a chip antenna that was very big
[03:14] <KF7FER> but I'm pretty sheltered
[03:14] <heathkid> they may be tiny... but takes space on the board for impedence matching
[03:15] <heathkid> with *nothing* near, above, or below it...
[03:15] <heathkid> the pcb traces are part of the "chip" antenna...
[03:17] <heathkid> SpeedEvil: only up to 100kV?
[03:17] Action: heathkid likes hard X-Rays!
[03:17] <heathkid> approaching gamma... ;)
[03:18] <heathkid> that's when I DO wear the lead apron
[03:18] <heathkid> our live X-Ray is at about 120KeV+
[03:19] <KF7FER> so given https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/images/evenlesserbozochip.png I see the top ground pour is closer to the antenna, should I shorten that too?
[03:20] Action: heathkid is off to bed... nite
[03:20] <KF7FER> night
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[03:51] <SpeedEvil> heathkid: basically. take an inverter microwave PSU.
[03:51] <SpeedEvil> this outputs 30khz 2kv square waves
[03:51] <SpeedEvil> run cockroft Walton from this
[04:26] <jarod> wooohaaa i got this http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_philetta_euro_12rb280_12.html radio ... awesome LW/MW reception and FM on 20cm wire :D
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[04:42] <KF7FER> jarod: pretty cool. While I never had one, the look certainly brings back memories...
[04:43] <KF7FER> esp. if your a crusty 'ol geezer like me ;-)
[04:43] <KF7FER> or even you're
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[06:35] <Upu> morning all
[06:36] <Upu> looks ok now KF7FER / Brad
[06:36] <Upu> Data sheet says there should be 1mm of trace outside of the copper pour
[06:38] <Randomskk> good morning
[06:38] <Randomskk> I am still awake :(
[06:38] <Randomskk> last coursework of the year, ugh
[06:38] <Randomskk> (masters project excluded - I suspect that will warrant some late nights..)
[06:40] <Upu> I could never do all nighters
[06:40] <Upu> just wasn't productive
[06:40] <Randomskk> I can apparently only do all nighters
[06:40] <Upu> lol
[06:40] <Randomskk> I think this might be worse
[06:40] <Randomskk> :P
[06:41] <Randomskk> literally every single coursework of my degree has been started at best the day before it's due and typically the day
[06:41] <Randomskk> oh well
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[06:56] <kokey> no ukhas conference dates planned this year yet?
[06:56] <kokey> ah, last one was 22 Sept
[06:56] <kokey> not planning to be in the UK that time of the year anyway
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[07:36] <UpuWork> is it meant to be sping ? :/
[07:36] <UpuWork> hey kokey no dates arranged get
[07:42] <eroomde> morning all
[07:42] <eroomde> or Zulu Felcititations
[07:45] <daveake> Sanibonani
[07:54] <fsphil> after all the warnings of snow yesterday, we ended up with almost none
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[08:10] <UpuWork> we got it fsphil
[08:15] <Willdude123> Morning.
[08:17] <UpuWork> morning Will
[08:17] <UpuWork> no school ?
[08:18] <Willdude123> I have school today, but I'm ready and don't have to leave for a while.
[08:23] <UpuWork> ah fair enough
[08:24] <UpuWork> I thought it was cancelled due to snow or something
[08:25] <fsphil> lots of them closed here today
[08:25] <kokey> snow, what a foreign concept
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[08:29] <x-f> good morning, snowmen
[08:29] <costyn> howdy
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[08:32] <x-f> this day a year ago we had +16, today it's -10, coldest March in 26 years
[08:33] <x-f> "late spring will be compensated by early autumn" :)
[08:33] <fsphil> -1c here
[08:35] <daveake> Good job our central heating got fixed yesterday and the boiler man didn't find another failed part that if he'd been a good boiler man he'd have noticed last week thus saving us another couple of days in the cold
[08:35] <fsphil> very good job that
[08:36] <daveake> Also a good job that last year, when I could hear that the motor/pump was on its way out, that he agreed with me and changed it there and then. It would have been terrible if he'd said "No pooint changing thatnow it could last for years"
[08:37] <fsphil> you should get this guy again
[08:38] <daveake> Amazing. That's exactly what I was thinking
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[08:40] <costyn> lol
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[08:56] <daveake> It's like getting your car serviced. They forget that the risk of something that "could last for another few months" is that you end up with the car off the road, or having to take time off work and play musical cars to get the thing in again for repair. I'd rather they just fixed the damn thing and save me the hassle, not try and save me money
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[09:25] <fsphil> oh man, it's snowing really hard now
[09:26] <fsphil> was kinda hoping to be stuck at home, not work :)
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[09:36] <HixWork> fsphil, "Highest snow accumulations of 30 cm or more are likely to be across the hills of Antrim and Down" bye bye work
[09:37] <fsphil> yayyy
[09:37] <daveake> Get out now while you still can :)
[09:38] <fsphil> there's about 4cm out there now, and it only started 15 minutes ago
[09:38] <UpuWork_> and you're still here talking to us ?
[09:38] Nick change: UpuWork_ -> UpuWork
[09:39] <fsphil> well I only live up the road, can walk home if all else fails
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[09:41] <x-f> we call it "the lark snowstorm" - the last snowstorm before it gets warm and green
[09:42] <x-f> so brace yourselves
[09:44] <costyn> "go home winter, you're drunk"
[09:46] <HixWork> heh
[09:50] <mfa298> either someone has a bright light on or there's some bright thing in the sky judging by the shadows here
[09:50] <mfa298> I'm assuming its the first option
[09:50] <costyn> mfa298: a bright thing? what sorcery is this?
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[09:50] <HixWork> is there a police helicopter?
[10:04] <eroomde> suspect that's it
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[10:29] <Brace> dozy question, but for a first time HABer, what would be the easiest/cheapest arduino to use (just using it for GPS/radio/phone control)?
[10:30] <costyn> Brace: any really... the price difference isn't that much
[10:31] <number10> a lot of people have used them
[10:31] <UpuWork> Brace easiest is probably the 5v Uno
[10:31] <costyn> Brace: but arduino pro mini is nice and small, but if you're unfamiliar with arduino's in general a leonardo or uno would be best
[10:34] <Brace> I was thinking of a uno
[10:34] <costyn> Brace: good choice
[10:34] <Brace> cause you can get them for £15.95 on ebay
[10:35] <Brace> basically it's a first bash at HABing and it does seem like a reasonable number of flights don't get the payload back, so I'm keen to keep the costs down as much as possible
[10:35] <costyn> Brace: if you don't have them already, consider getting a kit with a breadboard, jumper wires and resistors
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[10:36] <costyn> Brace: you're going to need those in any case, and it's convenient to get them all in one go
[10:36] <Brace> something like this then - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Official-Arduino-UNO-Rev3-ATMEGA328P-Board-with-Basic-Essentials-Starter-Kit-R3-/121032905747?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item1c2e1f9413
[10:36] <costyn> Brace: as for losing your payload, if you use the UKHAS method with radio, recovery is quite good.
[10:37] <costyn> Brace: yep, that's what I meant with a kit; looks good
[10:37] <Brace> costyn: ace thanks :D
[10:37] <Brace> yeah, was planning the 'standard' 70cms radio with mobile phone backup
[10:38] <costyn> Brace: ok; how are you going to implement phone backup?
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[10:41] <Brace> there was a good article on the wiki about a team from the netherland using a (iirc) t68 to send the texts
[10:42] <Brace> aha!
[10:42] <Brace> http://hollandshoogte.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/t68i-sms-working/
[10:43] <S_Mark> Brace, http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/01/backup-tracker-just-in-case.html
[10:43] <costyn> Brace: ah yea, that's quite old already
[10:43] <S_Mark> just another option!
[10:44] <costyn> Brace: the tracker S_Mark pointed to is more reliable and easier to use (and lighter), especially if youre just starting out with electronics and HAB
[10:45] <costyn> Brace: you can it and similar devices on ebay and dx.com
[10:45] <Brace> I'm definitely on the beginner end of things, but the other half of the team is much handier
[10:46] <Brace> although the lazy side of me has been thinking of getting a SPOT device, as I could just use that and I do a lot of climbing/mountaineering/fell running, so I'd have it to use after the flight
[10:46] <Brace> however it's expensive and kinda misses the point of hooking a bunch of stuff up and making it work
[10:47] <costyn> Brace: people have used that with succes too, although it's kind of important that the satellite antenna points upwards, which is hard to guarantee when your payload lands
[10:47] <costyn> Brace: a guy in Saudi made a gimball system which made sure the spot tracker always pointed up, but that was quite a hack
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[10:48] <costyn> Brace: really if you have a working and well-tested radio system, it's quite reliable and we have quite a nice network of listeners these days
[10:49] <costyn> Brace: most of us here don't use a gps/gsm backup tracker and rely on radio only
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[10:49] <Brace> fair enough
[10:49] <costyn> Brace: you can buy reliable gps and radio units here: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[10:50] <Brace> yeah, those are the ones I'd been looking at from the wiki
[10:50] <costyn> Brace: use the coupon code 'ukhas' to get some discount. The store is run by Upu here on IRC
[10:50] <Brace> ahh, ok, cool
[10:50] <UpuWork> hi o7
[10:50] <costyn> Brace: he's usually around for questions if you have any
[10:50] Action: HixWork always frogets this fact :/
[10:51] <costyn> Brace: I seem to have summoned him :)
[10:51] <UpuWork> going to post office in about 40 mins so if you want it dispatching today..
[10:51] <gonzo_> on my last foil pico, I ran the tx antenna up the balloon line. assuming only one balloon would burst and it would come down and land with the antenna eleveated a bit
[10:51] <costyn> HixWork: which fact?
[10:51] <gonzo_> (didn't help, it ended up lost in a tree anyway!)
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[10:51] <HixWork> costyn code - order, then remember
[10:51] <costyn> HixWork: ah :)
[10:51] <HixWork> meh
[10:52] <HixWork> hence my callsign will start $$ :D
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[10:59] <fsphil> marsballoon guys are preparing for a launch it seems
[10:59] <fsphil> it's cold enough to be mars atm
[11:00] <costyn> heh
[11:00] <costyn> they're not using our tracker I guess?
[11:01] <HixWork> did they not announce freq etc?
[11:01] <eroomde> mars as in planet or bar or somethig else?
[11:01] <costyn> eroomde: well planet
[11:01] <HixWork> march balloon
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[11:18] <gonzo_mob> where are they launching?
[11:19] <gonzo_mob> one of the guys here flys and mentioned seeing hab notams in the area
[11:19] <HixWork> somewhere around bristol I gather
[11:21] <HixWork> though details seem very sketchy, not least frequency. If they are using RF, I saw a payload photo but could only identify a creamic gps chip and some vero
[11:22] <fsphil> I'm worried they've tried to re-invent the wheel, which a lot of uni teams seem to do
[11:22] <HixWork> by the looks of the gps they made it square
[11:23] <costyn> fsphil: this is true. we're at uni, we (must) know what we're doing :)
[11:24] <HixWork> we'll show science how it works ;p
[11:26] <HixWork> I'm kind of hoping they don't have the winds we do here for their launch
[11:29] <HixWork> oh fsphil HK have them sony f1.2 700tvl CMOS cameras back in
[11:30] <fsphil> how do you find it?
[11:30] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE_
[11:30] <fsphil> find it as in how good it is, not how to search for it :)
[11:33] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[11:38] <HixWork> I've not tested the IR capabilities yet, but good quality image so far. it adapts to light levels quickly too. saturation and contrast could do with tweaking, but that could just be the usb capture dongle
[11:38] <fsphil> I'd like to have an HD setup but it's just not practical yet
[11:39] <HixWork> a friend reckons there's abadger set in the field behind his garden so gonna try and test out he IR soon
[11:39] <fsphil> ah sweet
[11:39] <fsphil> I've never seen a badger. not alive anyway
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[11:46] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy69qrJSDxs
[11:46] Action: fsphil guesses what this is before he clicks on it
[11:47] <fsphil> nope :)
[11:48] <fsphil> I wanna go there!
[11:49] <costyn> SpeedEvil: what did I just watch!?
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> extract from the museum of curiosity
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> BBC radio
[11:53] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering getting up.
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> discouraged by noise indicating the house may blow over.
[11:54] <fsphil> that would certainly present some issues
[11:55] <fsphil> our bins and bird table got relocated last night
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[12:38] <cuddykid> is the weather bad where you are fsphil? News makes it out to sound horrific in NI
[12:39] <fsphil> pretty heavy snow but it's melting quite quickly
[12:40] <fsphil> the power keeps flickering which is annoying
[12:40] <fsphil> wind has calmed a bit, was really bad last night
[12:41] Nick change: Upu_ -> Upu
[12:46] Action: SpeedEvil wishes thermal ir was cheaper
[12:48] <costyn> weird... and it's such a nice day here... cold, but sunny and calm
[12:52] <cuddykid> ah, doesn't sound good fsphil
[12:53] <cuddykid> all melted here (notts)
[12:53] <cuddykid> windy though
[12:54] <fsphil> snowing again
[12:55] <mattbrejza> its reasonably warm down here
[12:55] <mattbrejza> what is it with the north part of the country :/
[12:56] <fsphil> it's starting to build up on the ground again
[12:56] <fsphil> glad we get out early on fridays :)
[12:57] <mattbrejza> nothing heared from that brisstol balloon?
[12:57] <fsphil> forgot about them
[12:58] <fsphil> "weather is horrible but second launch is coming"
[12:58] <fsphil> guess the first one is up
[12:58] <mattbrejza> yea 52min ago apparently
[12:58] <fsphil> yea
[12:58] <fsphil> just found that
[13:05] <fsphil> hehe, on twitter: "Really impressed with this viral marketing for the new season of Game of Thrones! #Snow"
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[13:12] <fsphil> this is no fun without live tracking :)
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[13:13] <mattbrejza> could have tweeted them for comms details
[13:13] <mattbrejza> might be a bit late now
[13:14] <fsphil> something on 434mhz should stand out
[13:14] <mattbrejza> if its not continuous or large shift we'll have no idea
[13:16] <mattbrejza> .375 looks interestubg
[13:17] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: if only we had a few listeners uploading synchronised audio
[13:17] <Randomskk> any common signal would be likely to be a balloon
[13:17] <Randomskk> that might be a fun way of finding balloons actually. set up three rtl-sdrs around the country
[13:17] <fsphil> that's a rather good idea
[13:17] <mattbrejza> i have thought about that
[13:17] <Randomskk> could be done I reckon
[13:17] <mattbrejza> anyone else able to have a scan?
[13:17] <Randomskk> though I want to work on my new decoder first
[13:18] <fsphil> I didn't leave my home computer running, can't get at the radio
[13:18] <number10> where is launch from?
[13:18] <mattbrejza> one tone at 374
[13:18] <mattbrejza> bristol
[13:18] <mattbrejza> perhaps
[13:18] <fsphil> they'll both probably be down by the time I get home
[13:19] <mattbrejza> hmm its gone :/
[13:23] <UpuWork> nothing seen from my end
[13:23] <mattbrejza> yea its kinda gone now
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[13:41] <gonzo_> bugger. Not able to turn on all my system remotely, yet
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[14:43] <eroomde> no drc errors
[14:43] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/VrKXya1.png
[14:43] <eroomde> boom
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[14:45] <jonsowman> eroomde: your magjack has 5 pins in each of the two rows on the right
[14:45] <jonsowman> mine onlyhas 4
[14:45] <jonsowman> interesting
[14:45] <eroomde> I was looking forward to the origami championships on TV but turns out it's pay-per-view
[14:45] <eroomde> jonsowman: PoE
[14:45] <eroomde> the extra taps from the coils
[14:45] <jonsowman> ah ofc
[14:45] <jonsowman> cool
[14:45] <jonsowman> awful pun btw
[14:47] <eroomde> thanks
[14:47] <jonsowman> np
[14:47] <eroomde> wouldn't have been able to view it anyway, it's folded
[14:55] <jonsowman> dreadful
[14:58] <Randomskk> eroomde: no isolation on this card?
[14:58] <Randomskk> looks good though
[14:58] <jonsowman> how's the cw Randomskk?
[14:58] <Randomskk> finished it at about 7am inc a proof read
[14:58] <Randomskk> slept til noon-thirty
[14:58] <jonsowman> nice
[14:59] <Randomskk> have been vaguely wondering what to do with it since
[14:59] <jonsowman> haha
[14:59] <Randomskk> actually about to head to CUED to print, review hardcopy, hand in
[14:59] <jonsowman> :)
[14:59] <Randomskk> don't think I have much more to add unless I delete big chunks and rewrite
[14:59] <jonsowman> yeah
[14:59] <Randomskk> and it's a bit over the word limit
[14:59] <Randomskk> though he quoted it as +- 10% which I am within
[14:59] <jonsowman> that's fine then
[14:59] <Randomskk> yea just means I can't go around adding stuff
[15:00] <Randomskk> ugh, probably can't even render it on the CUED machines, using biblatex and stuff
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[15:23] <eroomde> Randomskk: it deosn't need isolation
[15:23] <eroomde> all the other cards are isolated from it
[15:24] <eroomde> anything with analogue is isolated power and digitally isolated from all the backpane signals
[15:24] <eroomde> this top board provides the system 24V and the backpane power
[15:28] <eroomde> i wonder if one could tie in 'rm *.*#*' into a git hook when you commit
[15:28] <eroomde> to clean up
[15:28] <jonsowman> i just leave them there and .gitignore them
[15:29] <DanielRichman> you certainly can put arbitrary shell commands to be executed pre or post commit (I assume you're aware of that?)
[15:29] <DanielRichman> feels a bit dangerous though
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[15:30] <jonsowman> safer to just ignore them
[15:30] <eroomde> i obviously gitignore them as otherwise git status would be guernica
[15:30] <eroomde> but they're annoying to ignore
[15:30] <eroomde> DanielRichman: i didn't know that infact
[15:30] <eroomde> but now I do!
[15:30] <eroomde> thanks :)
[15:30] <DanielRichman> eroomde: by default, .git/hooks/ will be popuulated with a set of example empty scripts ending in .sample (or something)
[15:31] <DanielRichman> I think some of those paths might be slightly off but you'll be able to figure it out no doubt
[15:31] <DanielRichman> if the directory is empty you should be able to find appropriate filenames to use elsewhere
[15:31] <DanielRichman> I think however that's specific to the checkout, not the repo, so if you clone it you have to set them up again
[15:32] <eroomde> that works
[15:32] <eroomde> thanks
[15:34] <DanielRichman> I use the post-receive hook to deploy my website to /var/www (rendering some templates and boring stuff) after a git push to a bare repo in my ~
[15:34] <eroomde> that's useful
[15:36] <eroomde> at an old place i used to work there was a cad package that had it's own horrendous built-in 'workgroup part synergy management system' or some other crap excuse for version control
[15:36] <eroomde> and we just wanted to use a proper vcs
[15:37] <eroomde> and we noticed the version number was there in ascii in the binary file name in the header
[15:37] <eroomde> so a hook to edit that to your own git-based version system would be super useful
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[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[15:40] <eroomde> UpuWork: http://www.edn.com/design/power-management/4410364/DC-DC-converter-starts-up-and-operates-from-a-single-photocell-
[15:40] <eroomde> saw this and though of you
[15:42] <chrisstubbs> after Upus drill related story last night
[15:42] <chrisstubbs> i actually managed to drill through my finger at work today
[15:43] <costyn> chrisstubbs: that sounds bad
[15:43] <x-f> dude..
[15:43] <eroomde> careless torque costs lives
[15:43] <chrisstubbs> the worst bit was realising the bit was stuck between the jig i was building and my finger
[15:43] <chrisstubbs> and having to reverse it out
[15:43] <Lunar_Lander> OUCH
[15:44] <costyn> gawd
[15:44] <costyn> chrisstubbs: was it a drillpress?
[15:44] <chrisstubbs> cordless
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> the H&s guys sait it would have been "faster and easier" to dissasemble the entire jig, set up a drill press, clamp it down. just to drill one hole.
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> How is everyone?
[15:53] <eroomde> good
[15:53] <eroomde> just got the last of the 4 pcb's off which have consumed the last 3 weeks of life
[15:53] <costyn> chrisstubbs: no fingers in machinery for me :)
[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> Howdy lunar
[15:54] <Lunar_Lander> today the machine I am supposed to work on came back from the electronics workshop
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, cool, are those the rockety senosry ones?
[15:54] <eroomde> yep
[15:54] <Lunar_Lander> it had been there because the newly installed emergency stop button had failed
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> allways good
[15:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:55] <Lunar_Lander> someone had assembled that thing right
[15:55] <eroomde> quite looking forward to getting them assembled
[15:55] <Lunar_Lander> and then he screwed in the screws
[15:55] <Lunar_Lander> and one screw was screwed 15 mm into the switch casing
[15:56] <chrisstubbs> some people are just incapable
[15:56] Action: chrisstubbs remembers drilling through hand
[15:59] <HixWork> was it a bit sore
[15:59] <HixWork> sorry :)
[16:00] <chrisstubbs> it megahert
[16:01] <costyn> I'm sure it wasn't a boring experience
[16:02] <HixWork> you're lucky you didn't get reamed by H&S
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[16:04] <eroomde> i've been boxed into my office
[16:04] <eroomde> by a delivery of 30 large Really Useful Boxes
[16:05] <staylo> therein lies the RUB
[16:05] <chrisstubbs> lol
[16:07] <fsphil> you're not thinking outside the box
[16:09] <gonzo_> can we keep a lid on this?
[16:10] <HixWork> contain yourselves
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[16:15] <UpuWork> hey eroomde thats interesting
[16:19] <arko> morning
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[16:20] <HixWork> hi arko, voltage prob sorted?
[16:20] <eroomde> UpuWork: ot sure how efficient it is or anything. but potentially useful if it's a one chip solution to do all the power tracking and stuff
[16:20] <arko> voltage probe?
[16:21] <eroomde> orning arko
[16:21] <arko> oh problem!
[16:21] <arko> yes!
[16:21] <HixWork> cool
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Uu8RJvSSM&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1
[16:21] <arko> talked with the manufacturer, they said it can actually handle 15v
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> launch and flight photos!
[16:22] <arko> i need to get ahold of jcoxon
[16:23] <eroomde> you could summon him?
[16:23] <arko> with candles and some symbol drawn on the floor kinda summon?
[16:25] <arko> my hab launches in 1 week and i want to setup the aprs to spacenear.us tracker
[16:25] <arko> very valuable tool
[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> EY
[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> don't get into esoterics
[16:26] <gonzo_> I'd lend you my ouija board, but I'm using it for debugging my code
[16:27] <arko> hahaha
[16:27] <arko> L-I-N-E-3-4-1
[16:27] <gonzo_> that would hardly get passed the commenting on the head of each file
[16:28] <gonzo_> lost count of haw many 1000 lines i've written in the last few weeks
[16:28] <arko> heh good point
[16:29] <arko> i just looked at the code im working on, comments end on line 29
[16:29] <arko> 340 lines of inital comments just seems nuts
[16:30] <arko> i see it all the time, but i can never understand why you would need that much
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[16:36] <gonzo_> automated rev control stuff can pad it out a lot. When the code is 15yrs old, there can be lots of revisions!
[16:39] <HixWork> genius @AsbestosSpider is on the pampage in Cardiff and on twitter
[16:40] <HixWork> *rampage
[16:46] <eroomde> arko: like this:
[16:47] <eroomde> he's probably busy resuscitating grannies
[16:49] <HixWork> howd you upset zeusbot eroomde
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[16:57] <Upu> eroomde only one way to find out and thats make a board with it on
[16:58] <eroomde> here's lookin at you
[16:58] <Upu> yup thought as much
[16:58] <eroomde> i'll be moderately pleased to take a break from eagle for a few days
[16:58] <eroomde> to solder and code instead
[16:58] <Upu> yeah I've done 2 boards over the last few days
[16:58] <Upu> I quite enjoy it tbh
[16:58] <eroomde> then i want to get back to this fpga gps/inertial board that i started before going away and need to get back on track
[16:59] <eroomde> heh, get back on track
[16:59] <eroomde> ...pcb design....
[16:59] <eroomde> geddit?
[16:59] <Upu> see what you did there
[16:59] <Upu> Iv'e been taking some inspiration from your boards
[16:59] <Upu> I.e not just copper pouring the ground plane on both sides willy nilly
[17:00] <Upu> not much choice on the pico boards but on the larger ones
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[17:00] <eroomde> yeah, grounding can make such a difference
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday a friend pointed out that James May did a show on Wine
[17:00] <eroomde> just controlling where all the leaking current goes
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> that was hilarious
[17:00] <eroomde> that maxim app note is a seriously good read btw
[17:00] <eroomde> on mixed signal layout
[17:00] <Upu> link ?
[17:01] <eroomde> worth properly digesting over a cup of tea or two
[17:01] <eroomde> especially the stuff about the path current takes to return on high speed signals
[17:01] <eroomde> sec
[17:01] <eroomde> "Successful PCB Grounding with Mixed-Signal Chips - Follow the Path of Least Impedance"
[17:01] <eroomde> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5450
[17:01] <Upu> thx
[17:01] <HixWork> i see what you did there, digesting, cup of tea... dunk dunk
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> thanks eroomde
[17:03] <eroomde> if you want some good apps notes, some of maxims are good like that. analog devices seem to have wonderful tidbits burried in the applications/examples sections of datasheets
[17:03] <eroomde> especially on op amps
[17:03] <eroomde> but some of the best ever written are by Jim Williams who was Linear Tech's most senior bloke for decades
[17:04] <eroomde> http://readingjimwilliams.blogspot.co.uk/p/best-app-notes.html
[17:04] <eroomde> they're pitched a bit higher - I often don't have to solve the problems he is trying to solve, it's more for trained electronics designers
[17:05] <eroomde> i have no formal electronics qualifications and rarely have to do hardcore analogue stuff for my job
[17:05] <arko> eroomde: that's neat!
[17:05] <eroomde> but they're still very interesting
[17:05] <eroomde> it might not know about you arko
[17:05] <arko> bet there is no email attached to the name :P
[17:05] <eroomde> but it will still claim it does
[17:05] <arko> haha
[17:05] <Upu> what it actually does is mail James
[17:05] <eroomde> it works for a few of us
[17:06] <Upu> if recipient not found
[17:06] <eroomde> whoever was around when james was playing with it
[17:06] <eroomde> oh yes
[17:06] <Upu> so everytime someone messes with it James gets a mail
[17:06] <eroomde> i remember
[17:06] <Upu> then he turns up all angry and stuff
[17:06] <eroomde> because you can do fun things
[17:06] <eroomde> like
[17:06] <arko> Upu haha
[17:06] <arko> HAHAHAHA
[17:06] <Upu> mark my words angry jcoxon incoming
[17:06] <arko> poor guy
[17:06] <arko> great, thanks eroomde
[17:07] <arko> now i cant get the hab on spacenear
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> I got a good nick
[17:08] Nick change: Lunar_Lander -> JamesMay_Rocks
[17:08] <JamesMay_Rocks> xD
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[17:09] Action: Upu pats Lunar
[17:09] <arko> lol
[17:10] <danielsaul> Got a bit of a problem, got a newly soldered board here with a ublox and atmega328... 3.3v on all the right pins etc. but only 2mA being drawn which we think is just the power LED - any ideas?
[17:10] <eroomde> that's great JamesMay_Rocks
[17:10] <eroomde> you enjoyed his wine show?
[17:10] <eroomde> danielsaul: that does sound suspicious
[17:10] <eroomde> can you share the eagle files?
[17:10] <JamesMay_Rocks> well I only watched the first 10 seconds
[17:10] <JamesMay_Rocks> then I had to pause it because I had to laugh so hard
[17:10] <eroomde> that's long enough to make a decision
[17:11] <eroomde> danielsaul: or at least screencaps of the schematic and layout?
[17:11] <danielsaul> eroomde: One sec
[17:11] <eroomde> if doing a screencap, please include tname but not tvalues
[17:12] Nick change: JamesMay_Rocks -> Lunar_Lander
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[17:13] <Upu> aye if you have the eagle files would help
[17:13] <Upu> dumb Q the ublox is the right way up ?
[17:13] <eroomde> oh yeah a photo of the pcb too :)
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[17:14] <Upu> ublox text should be bottom left with antenna at top right
[17:14] <danielsaul> School internet being slow, getting there
[17:14] <danielsaul> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27925237/Kraken/Kraken.brd
[17:15] <danielsaul> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27925237/Kraken/Kraken.sch
[17:16] <Upu> and image of the soldered board ?
[17:18] <eroomde> what is the voltage on the reset pin of the atmega?
[17:18] <eroomde> i can't see where it's pulled up on the schematic
[17:19] <Upu> its not
[17:19] <Upu> but apparently there is an internal pull up though I've always erred on the side of caution and put one on
[17:19] <danielsaul> http://db.tt/0RE1Slx2
[17:19] <Upu> 404
[17:19] <danielsaul> (btw this is someone else's board i'm debugging)
[17:20] <danielsaul> http://db.tt/0RE1SIx2
[17:20] <arko> RELEASE TEH KRAKEN
[17:20] <arko> sorry, it's my natural response to yell that out
[17:20] <danielsaul> hence the name
[17:20] <Upu> ublox is correct
[17:21] <danielsaul> (it's an ocean drifter)
[17:21] <Upu> I guess you've read the AVR and fuses are set etc ?
[17:21] <danielsaul> can't read the AVR
[17:21] <danielsaul> avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
[17:21] <arko> i was thinking about making a boat drifts around the pacific
[17:21] <arko> solar powered
[17:22] <fsphil> DEBUG THE KRAKEN
[17:22] <arko> control from afar
[17:22] <fsphil> arko: I wanted to try that for years
[17:22] <fsphil> I've*
[17:22] <arko> lets build one!
[17:22] <fsphil> I keep starting, then getting stuck
[17:22] <HixWork> theres a prize for that
[17:22] <arko> really?
[17:22] <fsphil> microtransat
[17:22] <eroomde> danielsaul: could you measure the voltage on the reset pin anyway?
[17:23] <Upu> ah ok something not right then
[17:23] <fsphil> competition to cross the atlantic under wind power
[17:23] <eroomde> i've seen those momentary push buttons wired both ways
[17:23] <Upu> now is it because your programmer can't clock slow enough ?
[17:23] <fsphil> and no remote control, computer has to do the sailing
[17:23] <arko> dude awesome
[17:23] <arko> that sounds fun
[17:23] <arko> lets do it
[17:23] <Upu> solder a 10k resistor from reset to VCC and try it again
[17:23] <Upu> I need to go walk the dog back soon
[17:24] <HixWork> I've been thinking it would be an awesome project arko
[17:24] <HixWork> a proper floater :)
[17:24] <arko> hahaha
[17:24] <danielsaul> Reset pin is 3.1V
[17:24] <arko> S.S. Floater
[17:24] <bertrik> my brother plans to go on a balloon trip and wonders if would make any sense to bring a tracker on board
[17:24] <eroomde> that'll do
[17:24] <fsphil> jcoxon and mattltm has been building buoys, in #sealevel
[17:24] <arko> dude, launch a floater hab to go west
[17:26] <HixWork> now look what you've gone and done fsphil
[17:26] <eroomde> this is a slightly wierdly layed out board
[17:26] <arko> it's a good challenge, it wont be very easy
[17:27] <eroomde> he seems to have manually routed gnd lines of the top layer for everything
[17:27] <eroomde> and at no point has connected it to the gnd plane of solid copper on the bottom
[17:27] <eroomde> he could just drop vias down by each device gnd pin to the bottom layer's ground plane.
[17:27] <HixWork> right escape from work andf battle M25 time bbl
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[17:31] <danielsaul> Pull up made no difference
[17:31] <eroomde> on't imagine it would
[17:31] <eroomde> if it was already seeing VCC
[17:31] <eroomde> wanted to check the momentary reset switch wasn't permentantly on
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[17:34] <eroomde> danielsaul: can you check for cinuity between the output of the reg (pins 1 and 2) and the input to the avr (pins 4 and 6)?
[17:35] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/IZ3BHOC.gif
[17:35] <eroomde> i can do that without a projector
[17:36] <arko> show off!
[17:36] <eroomde> likewise avr vcc pin and gps vcc pin
[17:36] <eroomde> show gnd
[17:36] <eroomde> whoops
[17:37] <danielsaul> eroomde: Off home now, will be back in a bit
[17:37] <eroomde> ok
[17:37] <eroomde> i might be gone
[17:37] <arko> eroomde: any new rocket tests?
[17:38] <eroomde> pcb-age the last couple of weeks
[17:38] <eroomde> but the thing i'm building is for some tests in just over one week
[17:38] <eroomde> and then there's some seriously exciting stuff happening
[17:38] <eroomde> which i can;t talk about here
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[17:40] <arko> http://boingboing.net/2011/04/06/nasa-mars-science-la.html
[17:41] <arko> damn those are beautiful images
[17:42] <eroomde> arko: heh
[17:42] <chrisstubbs> gotta love copious amounts of kapton tape
[17:42] <arko> kapton all the things
[17:42] <eroomde> i love how even the pinnacle of space programs puts on nasty little bits of tape with coordinate frame reminders
[17:43] <arko> hah yeah
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> apparently parcel tape is prohibited at work
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> they seal up all the cradboard boxes with like 10m of kapton tape
[17:43] <arko> wow
[17:43] <eroomde> bout 9 years ago when i was doing my AS levels (towards the end of high school?) i made a hexapod
[17:43] <eroomde> http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs7/i/2005/176/8/9/My_Walking_Robot_by_eddymoore.jpg
[17:43] <arko> that probably cost more than the shipping
[17:44] <eroomde> not the nasty stick label with reference frames
[17:44] <eroomde> note*
[17:44] <arko> wait that's yours?
[17:44] <eroomde> on the front right leg
[17:44] <eroomde> it is mine
[17:44] <eroomde> although it's still at my old school
[17:44] <arko> wow nice dude
[17:44] <arko> dig the design
[17:44] <eroomde> we got a cnc router
[17:44] <eroomde> so i had to play
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[17:45] <arko> :P
[17:45] <arko> same thing happened when we got a laser cutter
[17:45] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/nsl/Hexapod
[17:45] <eroomde> and PIC chips running the servos
[17:45] <eroomde> that was all i knew in those darker days
[17:46] <arko> haha
[17:46] <chrisstubbs> Made my reprap when my school got a 3d printer
[17:46] <arko> how did you drive all those servos?
[17:46] <chrisstubbs> gotta love school tech
[17:46] <eroomde> arko: a big nicad pack
[17:47] <eroomde> we didn't have LiPos back in them days
[17:47] <arko> i mean signal wise
[17:47] <arko> :P
[17:47] Action: eroomde dons flat cap
[17:47] <eroomde> oh
[17:47] <eroomde> each servo got 50 puleses per sec
[17:47] <eroomde> just from each io pin
[17:47] <arko> on the pic?
[17:47] <eroomde> a timer onboard did each pulse then moved on to the next pin and times a pulse for that and so on
[17:48] <eroomde> 9 servos per pic iirc
[17:48] <arko> oh wow
[17:48] <arko> didn't it run slow?
[17:48] <eroomde> and then wrapped back to servo 0
[17:48] <eroomde> run slow?
[17:48] <eroomde> well, it ran at 50Hz
[17:48] <eroomde> which is all servos need
[17:48] <eroomde> you can get 10 servos with up to 2ms pulses into 50Hz
[17:48] <eroomde> i did 9 to give me a bit of overhead
[17:49] <eroomde> and to split the 18 servos on the thing into 2
[17:49] <eroomde> so there are 2 servo driver boards on there
[17:49] <eroomde> one at the front and one at the back
[17:49] <eroomde> i had a separate board between the top and bottom chassis plates doing the actual kinematics
[17:50] <eroomde> just talked to the servo drivers over serial
[17:50] <eroomde> or actually i2c i think I used for some reason
[18:11] <arko> oh ok, that makes sense
[18:11] <arko> i was wondering where you would find process time for kinematics
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> and
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> http://youtu.be/X5Uu8RJvSSM
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:53] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, do you have twitter?
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> @HighAltitudeLab
[18:54] <fsphil> a lab on a mountain top?
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD like on Pike's Peak, Colorado
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> actually
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> the physics building is on one of the hills of Osnabruck :)
[18:55] <fsphil> handy spot to track from :)
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> Followed you, my project page is @NSEballoon
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks chrisstubbs :)
[19:08] <Elwell> Lunar_Lander: re youtube of stratosphere launch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9zSfinwFA
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know that one
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> was unfortunate that someone filmed who was not planned to film
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> actually I had to rotate the video that way because otherwise you would have seen us tilted 90° to the left
[19:12] <Elwell> true, but its always worth watching the VVS video :-)
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
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[19:37] <anerDev> hey hey guys !
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[19:55] <Willdude123> Evening guys.
[19:56] <jonsowman> evening
[19:57] <Upu> evening all
[19:58] <Willdude123> Any problems with you know who?
[19:58] <Willdude123> Well, you probably don't know who, the Laurence guy.
[19:59] <Upu> not seen him for since the other night
[20:00] <jonsowman> don't worry Willdude123, all under control
[20:00] <Willdude123> Good.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> a ham friend of mine says that a balloon report has been printed in their newspaper
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[20:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its the MARSBalloon they found one but have lostthe other, tracker is on 868.3MHz @33Kbps it seems
[20:23] <fsphil> brave
[20:24] <craag> Because 600 baud worked so well :P
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thought that myself!
[20:24] <Upu> any ideas on last location ?
[20:24] <fsphil> I got the impression they where not able to track them live
[20:25] Action: Upu shrugs
[20:25] <fsphil> one of their tweets sounded like they'd got a location through gsm
[20:25] <fsphil> for the one they did recover
[20:25] <jonsowman> have they ever been on here?
[20:25] <Upu> who was it anyway ?
[20:25] <fsphil> don't believe so
[20:26] <fsphil> "Bristol Space engineers from SEA"
[20:26] <Upu> SEA ?
[20:26] <fsphil> http://www.sea.co.uk/
[20:27] <Upu> ok
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[20:27] <fsphil> to be honest that website doesn't help
[20:27] <Upu> I always think its a shame when people loose their payloads when its entirely unavoidable
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Only 2hours more battery life expected ....
[20:28] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: It'll be on the ground by now though right?
[20:28] <fsphil> even if we had had the frequency during the flight, nobody would have been able to help
[20:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup it was the first one to land Deimos as named mid afternoon I think
[20:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tx is only 10mW if set for max http://www.ciseco.co.uk/content/?p=1738
[20:29] <craag> Not much chance unless someone with an sdr happens to be within a few hundred m then. And knows about it!
[20:30] <fsphil> not a hope of even seeing that signal at distance
[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://twitter.com/marsballoon yup and if they have an aerial which behaves well on 868, not sure many will have something that is directional there!
[20:30] <craag> m == metres btw ;)
[20:31] <fsphil> does seem a strange choice of setup
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/8/5/2/5yvd7h-knjcpk-ybnv/wn22032013.jpeg
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> newspaper :)
[20:31] <fsphil> they must have done a range test? right?
[20:31] <fsphil> the straw!
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea!
[20:32] <fsphil> is that a popular paper?
[20:32] <fsphil> congrats btw :)
[20:33] <fsphil> I can see people from the other side of the page
[20:34] <craag> Nice one Lunar_Lander, I see your name mentioned a couple of times!
[20:34] <Upu> nice Lunar :)
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[20:39] <fsphil> I've not had any media attention. Not sure if that's good or bad
[20:42] <Upu> Dave took it all
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[20:45] <fsphil> man it's cold
[20:46] <fsphil> no more snow though
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:48] <arko> wetterballoon
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[20:49] <arko> this is why i can read technical papers written in german
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[20:49] <fsphil> das wetter ist gut
[20:50] <arko> ^conclusion of launch
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:50] <fsphil> how'd I do on grammer Lunar_Lander?
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[20:50] <arko> Unsere Wetterballon abgeschlossen hat das Wetter gut ist
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, how do you mean?
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah fsphil got it right
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:51] <fsphil> sweet
[20:51] <arko> ich liebe lamp
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD lamp?
[20:52] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gId6nrMDmUU
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:55] <fsphil> oooook
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[20:59] <arko> i love that movie
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[21:38] <chrisstubbs> oh my
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> after 6 days of rewriting code and disconnecting and reconnecting jumpers aimlessly
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> $$CHEAPO has managed to put the ublox into flight mode
[21:39] <fsphil> Yay Progress!
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> had to break out the 3.3v rx and tx on the ublox instead of using another level conecverter to go from 3.3v > 5v > 3.3v
[21:40] <chrisstubbs> i dont know why the multiple level converters didnt work...
[21:41] <chrisstubbs> time for some HABbeer
[21:42] <arko> well done
[21:42] <arko> beer up
[21:43] <Upu> Whisky... :)
[21:44] <chrisstubbs> Upu did you hear about my accident?
[21:45] <Upu> Yeah blood ?
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> yeah haha
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> after talking about it last night, only i could do it today :P
[21:45] <fsphil> holy hands batman
[21:45] <Upu> I made a thing : http://i.imgur.com/9a1b1Mz.png
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> oh well i have spare fingers
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> oo circular
[21:46] <fsphil> needs a ring of LEDs
[21:46] <Upu> plops straight into a poly ball , batter clips to the back antenna screws on
[21:46] <Upu> you know
[21:46] <fsphil> for no reason
[21:46] <Upu> I was thinking that :)
[21:46] <arko> woah cool
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> arc reactor it
[21:46] <fsphil> lol
[21:46] <arko> tron!
[21:46] <Upu> just playing with Eagle
[21:47] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgv3DA1jGQs
[21:47] <Upu> found it can do more than straight lines
[21:47] <arko> one of the guys at our hackerspace made these
[21:47] <fsphil> I was looking at those EL panels that sparkfun has
[21:47] <fsphil> to make a payload box out of
[21:47] <Upu> aw man those are cool
[21:47] <arko> yeah
[21:47] <arko> 3 of us have them
[21:47] <fsphil> oh sweet
[21:47] <arko> we still have the pcb's
[21:47] <arko> very fun
[21:47] <Upu> oh man if I did LED's round the edge :))
[21:48] <arko> seriously!
[21:48] <arko> make it do a light show
[21:48] <arko> you need like one TLC chip
[21:48] <arko> boom, lights
[21:48] <Upu> screw battery life
[21:48] <arko> haha!
[21:48] <fsphil> this is what I'm saying Upu :)
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> RTTY over LED
[21:48] <arko> that's the spirit
[21:48] <fsphil> LEDs
[21:48] <arko> haha chris
[21:48] <chrisstubbs> its been talked about, just do it!
[21:48] <fsphil> make your own Stargate
[21:48] <Upu> got a circuit diagram for that ?
[21:48] <arko> one sec
[21:48] <Upu> haha
[21:48] <Upu> this will be epic sauce
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[21:50] <fsphil> have a dedicated battery for them
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> 10^12 baud
[21:50] <arko> svn://svn.032.la:6699/032/tron_disc
[21:50] <arko> downloadz
[21:50] <arko> my friend charlie designed it
[21:50] <arko> smart dude
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[21:51] <Upu> put
[21:51] <Upu> ty...
[21:51] <daveake> Well if we're sharing photos :-) http://imgur.com/60jwwVd,pUpGC5X
[21:51] <daveake> Upu you may recognise the gps
[21:52] <fsphil> you give it the snip?
[21:52] <Upu> I hacked it
[21:52] <daveake> snippy snip snip
[21:52] <daveake> NTX and Arduino http://imgur.com/60jwwVd,pUpGC5X#1
[21:52] <Upu> so Dave could use the I2C
[21:52] <Upu> ready to fly ?
[21:52] <daveake> Will be soon
[21:52] <daveake> Code all done
[21:53] <daveake> Just putting all the bits in the payload this evening, and shortening all the wires
[21:53] <Upu> I'm making AVATRON
[21:54] <daveake> I saw :)
[21:54] <fsphil> spin to win
[21:54] <Upu> :)
[21:54] <fsphil> HYPNOAVA
[21:54] <Upu> haha
[21:55] <fsphil> oh great eagle has decided to stop working
[21:55] <Upu> mine did that earlier
[21:55] <daveake> RPi should call their new camera Pixels
[21:55] <Upu> just check director for b##
[21:56] <Upu> oh wow arko
[21:56] <Upu> I might just get some of those made
[21:56] <arko> :)
[21:57] <arko> i think it has an airwire needed
[21:57] <arko> i'll check my when i get to the hackerspace
[21:57] <Upu> yeah there are a few air wires
[21:57] <fsphil> what's the IC?
[21:57] <Upu> got the code as well ?
[21:57] <arko> oh ok
[21:57] <arko> yeah somewhere
[21:57] <arko> charlie has it
[21:57] <arko> i'll ask him
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[21:57] <Upu> 328
[21:57] <Upu> 3 shift registers
[21:57] <Upu> hey Lunar
[21:58] <Upu> err
[21:58] <Upu> LED drivers
[21:58] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/tlc5947dap/ic-led-driver-linear-32-tssop/dp/1755259?Ntt=TLC5947
[21:58] <Upu> x 3
[21:58] <fsphil> ah, each doing 24
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[21:59] <Upu> amazing
[21:59] Action: fsphil ponders
[21:59] <Upu> really going to get those made
[21:59] <fsphil> put me down for one
[21:59] <Upu> sure
[22:00] <Upu> it is reporting airwires though not sure why
[22:01] <Upu> love it yeah if you can source the code Arko that would be super
[22:02] <arko> yeah, im sure he will be more than happy
[22:02] <arko> it was a project he did for fun
[22:02] <arko> Upu: hide all layers except airwire
[22:02] <Upu> its no that
[22:02] <Upu> not
[22:03] <Upu> https://join.me/482-468-320#
[22:03] <Upu> https://join.me/482-468-320
[22:03] <Upu> looks like Eagle not realising the lines are connected
[22:04] <Upu> yeah I can fix it
[22:05] <Upu> I think its just Eagle bugging out
[22:06] <Upu> no power on it but I should be able to fix that too
[22:07] <Upu> cheers Arko
[22:08] <Upu> right best walk dog
[22:08] <arko> np dude
[22:08] <arko> cool cool
[22:08] <Upu> in the blizzard
[22:08] <Upu> meh
[22:08] <chrisstubbs> Nice BG
[22:08] <Upu> oh its you
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> haha jeez
[22:09] <Upu> yeah :)
[22:09] <Upu> back soon
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> it started trying to snow here this morning and i swore at the clouds until it stopped ;)
[22:14] <cuddykid> oh wow Upu
[22:19] <mfa298> it sounds like the weather is causing serious problems http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21896847
[22:25] <Upu> haha
[22:28] <Upu> it is pretty nasty out there
[22:28] <Upu> drifts of snow
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[22:29] <fsphil> just windy and cold now
[22:29] <fsphil> but more snow tomorrow. yays
[22:31] <daveake> Complete aside from aerials - http://i.imgur.com/94eEfMP.jpg
[22:32] <cuddykid> neat
[22:33] <griffonbot> @daveake: An intimate photograph of the next "Pi In The Sky" payload http://t.co/eA6l3xaluD #raspberry_pi @raspberry_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/315229677318987776]
[22:33] <cuddykid> daveake: do you solder the battery ends together?
[22:33] <daveake> Will do yes
[22:33] <daveake> Everything is soldered aside from the SD card and the camera :)
[22:34] <mattbrejza> not an issue with the gps at the bottom?
[22:34] <cuddykid> when do you plan on flying?
[22:34] <daveake> That's the top :)
[22:34] <daveake> Sadly it will fly upside down :)
[22:35] <mattbrejza> i thought the leaves on the rpi logo were at the top
[22:35] <daveake> No .. there are 2 aerials one attached to the end of each leaf
[22:35] <fsphil> what's the pink material?
[22:36] <daveake> I need to keep the aerials apart hence the ned to use the widest part hence the need to fly it upside down
[22:36] <mattbrejza> ah
[22:36] <daveake> extruded polystyrene
[22:36] <daveake> Lot easier to work with than the white stuff
[22:36] <mattbrejza> can you get directional couplers cheaply?
[22:36] <mattbrejza> i think that would allow you to use one antenna for two similar freqs
[22:36] <daveake> oh, no idea
[22:37] <daveake> bit late for that now :p
[22:37] <mattbrejza> i think the answer is no howeever
[22:37] <mattbrejza> maybe like £30
[22:38] <fsphil> didn't think something like that existed
[22:38] <mattbrejza> i might be making stuff up
[22:38] <daveake> lol
[22:38] <mattbrejza> nope, they exist
[22:38] <daveake> The ends of those leaves are 164mm apart, by some strange coincidence ... :p
[22:38] <mattbrejza> forms part of a VNA
[22:39] <mattbrejza> you trying MIMO? :P
[22:39] <fsphil> haha
[22:39] <fsphil> that'd be one way of increasing the data rate
[22:39] <daveake> 2 transmitters 600 baud each so 1200 equivalent
[22:39] <fsphil> though not helped by everything moving
[22:40] <mattbrejza> MIMO doesnt quite work like that daveake
[22:40] <daveake> No, Im telling you what I am doing
[22:40] <mattbrejza> oh i see
[22:41] <mattbrejza> so one image on each one?
[22:41] <mattbrejza> rahter than splitting the image down both...
[22:41] <mattbrejza> that probably wouldnt end well
[22:41] <daveake> Yeah I tried both but it's better to do 2 separate pix at once
[22:41] <fsphil> the end result is the same, but the individual receiver would never get a complete image
[22:42] <daveake> Splitting does work - fsphil's server pieces the interleaved packets together - but looks ugly in dl-fldigi
[22:42] <mattbrejza> yea thats what i was thinking
[22:42] <daveake> The Arduino maintains 2 buffers for each channel - one in one out
[22:43] <daveake> The Pi polls it to see which input buffer(s) are free
[22:43] <daveake> And then populates them
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[22:43] <daveake> Meanwhile the Arduino sends the previous packet till that's gone, then switches to the next packet and releases the buffer
[22:43] <daveake> So no gaps
[22:44] <mattbrejza> turns out i didnt make it up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_dividers_and_directional_couplers
[22:44] <daveake> Oh, and there's a telemetry packet every 15 seconds, to alternate NTX2s
[22:44] <mattbrejza> is this to make the most of the new camera?
[22:44] <fsphil> cool
[22:44] <daveake> Exactly that mattbrejza
[22:44] <mattbrejza> also how any ntx2s would you need to get video? :P
[22:45] <fsphil> one, but it wouldn't be very good video :)
[22:45] <daveake> So 4x the bandwidth of my early Pi flights, so I can send pix 4 times the size in the same time
[22:46] <daveake> Currently using 816x528 (originals were 432x240)
[22:46] <mattbrejza> launch date set?
[22:47] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I suspect those are designed more so you can run test gear on a system (only skimmed the wiki page)
[22:47] <daveake> Well, some of the Pi people want to come, so I need to coordinate their diaries with the predictions
[22:47] <mattbrejza> yea i didnt read it properly either
[22:47] <daveake> Next month I think
[22:48] <mattbrejza> ah yea, peoples avaliablity and weather, sounds like a fun task
[22:48] <mfa298> for two radios with one antenna it's you're probably thinking of a diplexer/duplexer but for close frequencies they get complex (and potentially big, heavy and expensive)
[22:48] <daveake> If I can't get a dry landing, I'll swap the AAAs for AAs and aim for a float
[22:48] <fsphil> might see if I can get the yagi up for that
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Power splitter for 70cms in this case to combine tow aerials but just reverse the connections
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.mydarc.de/dk7zb/Stacking/coax.htm
[22:48] <daveake> fsphil you may well manage it - it'll be a high flight
[22:49] <fsphil> I could hear the last flight you did at 600, got partial strings but no decodes
[22:49] <fsphil> on the colinear
[22:49] <fsphil> yagi should manage it
[22:49] <daveake> I reckon
[22:49] <daveake> Did anyone start a 600-baud record table?
[22:50] <fsphil> don't think so, but it's gotta be at least 200km
[22:53] <fsphil> I'm sure one of the habhub guys could make that table in a few minutes :)
[22:54] <daveake> Sorted by aerial size
[22:54] <Upu> I call no fair
[22:54] <daveake> hah
[22:54] <daveake> OK sorted by listener altitude
[22:55] <daveake> ah
[22:55] <Upu> no wait..
[22:55] <daveake> Sorted by ... nickname
[22:55] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[22:55] <mfa298> sorted by balloons launched ?
[22:55] <daveake> damn
[22:56] Nick change: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa -> chrisstubbs
[22:56] <mattbrejza> sentences transmitted?
[22:56] <chrisstubbs> im off, night guys!
[22:56] <fsphil> g'nite chrisstubbs
[22:56] <mfa298> or time take for first launch :p
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[23:12] <Willdude123> How will Dave's transmission on two frequencies work?
[23:14] <fsphil> ideally the listeners will be spread out equally between the two frequencies
[23:16] <Willdude123> I see.
[23:17] <Willdude123> How will it be interleaved
[23:17] <fsphil> separate images transmitted on each channel
[23:20] <fsphil> he tested sending a single image over both, one sending odd packets the other sending even
[23:20] <fsphil> but it meant that each receiver on the ground would only get half an image locally
[23:21] <Willdude123> Ah yeah.
[23:21] <fsphil> there's also the risk that if one transmitter or antenna failed,none of the images would be complete
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[23:27] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[23:27] <m0psi> hi all
[23:28] <m0psi> i'm a little worried about our balloon flight
[23:28] <m0psi> re too much weight
[23:28] <m0psi> we have a H 1000
[23:28] <m0psi> and the box will probably weigh 900g, all in
[23:29] <lz1dev> you can still fill with more He, which will lower your burst altitude
[23:29] <m0psi> y, i figured
[23:29] <m0psi> but it would give us a longer ground track
[23:29] <m0psi> if too slow, going up
[23:30] <fsphil> more He will solve that too
[23:31] <m0psi> http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[23:31] <m0psi> we've got the medium bottle
[23:31] <m0psi> which is supposed to have 3.6m3
[23:31] <m0psi> will that be enough?
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[23:32] <lz1dev> probably
[23:32] <fsphil> depends how fast you want to go up
[23:32] <Upu> shuold be enough for a 1000g balloon yes
[23:32] <Upu> whats your payload weigh ?
[23:32] <m0psi> i guess, lower burst because need to put more in, to get up at speed, then it bursts because it stetches the rubber.
[23:32] <lz1dev> m0psi: try running it in the calc
[23:32] <lz1dev> http://habhub.org/calc/
[23:32] <m0psi> right now the payload is 680g
[23:33] <m0psi> no parachute, or gaffer tape etc
[23:33] <m0psi> so, guessing it will end up 900g ish
[23:33] <Upu> aim for 6m/s ascent
[23:34] <fsphil> 900g payload, 1000 howyee, 6m/s will require 5.08m3 helium
[23:34] <m0psi> so, that wont cut it
[23:34] <lz1dev> fsphil: im getting 3.76
[23:35] <fsphil> hmm
[23:35] <m0psi> 3.12
[23:35] <lz1dev> check the actual calculate accent
[23:35] <lz1dev> calculated*
[23:36] <m0psi> 5m/s gives 3.12m3
[23:36] <m0psi> and 28697m burst alt
[23:37] <m0psi> no
[23:37] <m0psi> 5m/s target, give 5.59m/s actual, with 3.38m3 of He
[23:37] <arko> wow, current weather predictions show my next hab landing near where my first hab was estimated to land
[23:38] <arko> would be cool to find both :D
[23:38] <fsphil> lz1dev: http://i.imgur.com/tmptsEd.png
[23:38] <lz1dev> yeah 7 :D
[23:38] <fsphil> oh right
[23:38] <fsphil> just spotted that
[23:38] <fsphil> well that's silly :)
[23:38] <m0psi> so, each calc shows a different number
[23:39] <m0psi> which one should i trust ? :-)
[23:39] <lz1dev> the bottom one should be 'accurate'
[23:39] <m0psi> ah
[23:39] <m0psi> i was using 5
[23:39] <m0psi> 5m/s
[23:39] <m0psi> i think 6 wont work, cos got no He
[23:40] <fsphil> 4.6m/s gives me 5.03m/s
[23:40] <m0psi> well, not 'enough' He
[23:40] <fsphil> and 2.99m3 helium
[23:40] <lz1dev> 3.6 should be more than enough
[23:40] <m0psi> so, basically, chuck the whole bottle in
[23:40] <fsphil> best bet
[23:41] <m0psi> no point of returning it with some in, no refund!
[23:41] <Upu> it will be fine
[23:41] <m0psi> y, seems like it
[23:41] <m0psi> i can sleep now
[23:41] <m0psi> kids got all excited today, asking about when we are doing the second mission!!
[23:42] <Spoz> hm, anyone else having problems with the cusf landing predictor
[23:42] <m0psi> the thing starts to capture imagination when it all comes together in a visible box
[23:43] <Spoz> I havent been able to properly download the gfs files for the past couple days
[23:43] <fsphil> launching can be a lot of fun, and stress, all at the same time :)
[23:43] <m0psi> i believe that. Tuesday is not looking great anymore
[23:44] <fsphil> working here Spoz: http://habhub.org//predict/#!/uuid=7f18a321237da9eb9d2bcd67d0ee2ae481d63cf8
[23:44] <m0psi> but will only call GO / NO-GO, the night before
[23:45] <Spoz> ahh, seems I was trying to look too far ahead
[23:46] <arko> when do you fly?
[23:46] <Spoz> one week from now, I swear on the last launch we had a prediction track from a week out
[23:46] <Spoz> must have been even sooner
[23:46] <arko> hey!
[23:46] <arko> cool
[23:46] <arko> me too!
[23:46] <arko> :)
[23:46] <Spoz> where from?
[23:47] <Spoz> our launch time will be a week plus about 2 hours
[23:47] <fsphil> yea it only goes a week ahead
[23:47] <fsphil> and even that will tend to be inaccurate
[23:47] <Spoz> for the last launch it predicted totally accurately a week out
[23:47] <Spoz> and didnt change much at all
[23:47] <fsphil> happens sometimes
[23:47] <Spoz> I know that depends on a lot of things though
[23:47] <Spoz> but was hoping to get an idea.. from the current simulations its not looking like our last launch site will be suitable this time
[23:47] <arko> Spoz: Mojave, CA
[23:48] <arko> 18:00 UTC
[23:48] <arko> 11:00 PST
[23:48] <Spoz> cool, I'm from brisbane australia
[23:48] <arko> nice!
[23:48] <arko> good luck on your launch
[23:48] <Spoz> thanks, you too
[23:48] <Spoz> last time we were lucky enough to have it go west so we could launch fairly close to civilisation
[23:49] <Spoz> this time I think we'll have to drive way out west, launch, and hope it doesnt come back to the city
[23:49] <Spoz> which means no internet out there :(
[23:49] <arko> hah, nice. we chose desert for that reason
[23:49] <Spoz> so no updates for you guys
[23:49] <arko> aww
[23:49] <fsphil> satellite modem :)
[23:49] <arko> mojave has some internet, it's going to be pain in the ass
[23:52] <arko> yeah, a friend of ours has that
[23:52] <arko> $1 per Mb
[23:52] <arko> thats insane
[23:52] <Upu> stick to IRC you could be online for a year for $!
[23:52] <Upu> $1
[23:53] <m0psi> http://www.flickr.com/photos/azzawi/8580541645/in/photostream
[23:53] <m0psi> not yet ready, should be so tomorrow, or sunday at the latest
[23:53] <arko> coolio
[23:53] <Upu> looks good ali but I would tie everything down well :)
[23:53] <m0psi> we think so :-)
[23:54] <Upu> it gets very violent up there
[23:54] <m0psi> y, they are velcro tied
[23:54] <Upu> those wires on the Arduino
[23:54] <Upu> I would solder them on
[23:54] <Upu> not just push them in
[23:54] <Upu> it will be subject to some heavy vibration
[23:54] <m0psi> all electronics sit on the blue bit, and the blue bit will get velcroed on the box
[23:55] <Upu> anyway looks good I'm off night all
[23:55] <m0psi> i take your point about soldering on ard
[23:55] <m0psi> i will do that
[23:55] <m0psi> nn
[23:55] <m0psi> question re gps
[23:55] <m0psi> should the antenna poke out of the top?
[23:55] <m0psi> is that crucial?
[23:56] <m0psi> or ok on the side?
[23:56] <Spoz> buttom
[23:56] <Spoz> bottom*
[23:56] <m0psi> huh?!
[23:56] <Spoz> monopole antenna?
[23:56] <m0psi> gps antenna, not radio
[23:56] <Spoz> oh
[23:56] <Spoz> sorry
[23:56] <Spoz> side would be fine
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[23:57] <m0psi> i figured, side is easier, but if the thing is spinning, it could lose lock
[23:57] <Spoz> it will be spinning quite slowly relative to the speed of light
[23:57] <Spoz> not really an issue
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[23:57] <m0psi> :-)
[23:58] <m0psi> i don't know abour your spins down under, our spins get reaaaaly fast inthe northern hemisphere
[23:58] <Spoz> hehe
[23:58] <m0psi> and the opposite way
[23:58] <Spoz> I wouldnt know, our video camera stopped recording during launch last time x.x
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 23 2013