highaltitude.log.20130320

[00:00] <cuddykid> impressive that the RFM22B has 1 sat
[00:01] <fsphil> or that the rfm22b has a flight mode :)
[00:01] <cuddykid> indeed!
[00:02] <cuddykid> the Chinese are getting advanced these days
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[01:01] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Re: Yupiteru MVT-7100 Scanner for sale"
[01:09] <mfa298> fsphil: I think I'd use the term "black magic" for mod_rewrite
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[02:30] Nick change: trnv2 -> trn
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[03:28] <arko> woot!
[03:28] <arko> getting ready to do habex2 dry run
[03:28] <arko> going to do a driving run and have a chase team
[03:28] <arko> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FN6ARA&timerange=21600&tail=3600
[03:28] <arko> if you want to watch
[03:28] <nigelvh> Now?
[03:29] <arko> yes
[03:29] <nigelvh> Kind of late isn't it?
[03:29] <arko> hackerspaces dont sleep :P
[03:30] <arko> we got like 10 people here
[03:30] <arko> practicing and chasing
[03:30] <Darkside> lol
[03:30] <nigelvh> Alrighty then.
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[03:41] <nigelvh> arko, that a club call?
[03:42] <arko> no thats my call
[03:42] <nigelvh> N6 or FN6?
[03:43] <nigelvh> nevermind.
[03:43] <nigelvh> Ah, there we go. It's a vanity call.
[03:54] mrShrimp (62f73169@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.247.49.105) joined #highaltitude.
[03:57] <mrShrimp> Hey does anyone know if rechargable li-on batteries are as reliable as the non-rechargable type at high altitude? Is there any real chemical difference between the two?
[04:01] <nigelvh> Some people have had issues with them dying at the low temperatures. Though, I've not experienced that over a few flights with LiPOs.
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[04:10] <mrShrimp> Could that be because LiPOs are solid state?
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[05:39] <arko> woot!
[05:47] <arko> all good
[05:47] <arko> got some good tracking
[05:47] <arko> for tracking on the ground in LA
[05:47] <arko> heh
[05:47] <arko> i have some questions about these lithum batteries though
[05:48] <Darkside> mm?
[05:55] <nigelvh> yeah?
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[06:14] <arko> so i put 8 AA lithums together
[06:14] <arko> got 14.4v
[06:14] <arko> i was expecting 12.0v
[06:14] <arko> :/
[06:14] <arko> the voltage limit is 13.2v for my radio
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[06:20] <nigelvh> What radio is this? Is it designed for a car?
[06:21] <arko> yeah it is
[06:21] <arko> it has a 12v reg
[06:21] <nigelvh> If it's designed for use in a car, 14.x V should be just fine. That's a very common voltage in a car while running
[06:21] <arko> right
[06:21] <arko> but here's the thing
[06:22] <arko> the voltage drops to 12v in about 30minutes
[06:22] <nigelvh> uh huh?
[06:22] <arko> the 12v reg doesn't work below 12.4v
[06:22] <arko> since it' brings the voltage above 12.4v down to 12v
[06:23] <Darkside> you could get a buck-boost converter to keep the output voltage constant
[06:23] <arko> hmmm
[06:23] <arko> trying to avoid that
[06:24] <nigelvh> Then you'll need to add more voltage to the input
[06:24] <arko> seems like it's over complicating the problem
[06:24] <arko> i figured, remove 1 battery
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[06:52] <eroomde> morn
[06:52] <nigelvh> Evening
[06:58] <eroomde> and the rest
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[07:55] <fsphil> we got a forecast for sleet: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8573353675_78e23b0c47_o.jpg
[07:57] <UpuWork> thats alot of sleet
[07:59] <UpuWork> morning all
[08:00] <daveake> morning uno
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[08:06] <costyn> mrShrimp: LiPos have given mixed results. On my flight there was one in a gopro which did just fine, and lasted about 2 hours. Also another guy I knew powered his board by lipo with no problems. But there have been people here who had bad experiences with lipo's.
[08:12] <number10> morning.
[08:13] <arko> Morning
[08:15] <arko> Hmm a 12v ldo will down convert say 14v to 12v, and below 12v does it passes through right?
[08:16] <daveake> Any LDO has a "dropout" value, so Vout = Vin - Dropout
[08:16] <daveake> Dropout varies with currentmainly, and temp a bit
[08:16] <daveake> And some LDOs are much better (Lower) than others
[08:17] <daveake> What are you doing?
[08:17] <arko> Ok thought so
[08:17] <arko> Wanted to double check
[08:17] <arko> Im redesigning a part of a commerical circuit
[08:18] <arko> Becuase its accually a poorndesign
[08:18] <arko> Poor design
[08:19] <arko> It has a 7812 at the moment
[08:19] <daveake> Some LDOs will have a dropout of 200mV, others around 1V, at the same current. In my book 1V doesn't count as "Low Drop Out" but there you go
[08:19] <arko> Which stops functioning around 12.4v
[08:19] <daveake> 7812 will be ~2V dropout
[08:19] <arko> Hmm
[08:20] <daveake> Look it up - as I say they vary with current and temp
[08:20] <arko> Right
[08:20] <arko> But the dropout isnt the problem, its the cutoff
[08:21] <arko> Below what voltage does it stop working
[08:22] <arko> Anyway, ive been awake for 20hours ish
[08:22] <arko> I think sleep is in order
[08:22] <arko> Night!
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[08:24] <daveake> It's not "working", as in "regulating", once the Vin drops below the regulated Vout + dropout
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[08:25] <daveake> I don't recall seeing an regulator datasheet that shows what happens to Vout if you keep dropping Vin beyond that point
[08:26] <craag_> For a while you'll still get Vout = Vin - Vdrop
[08:26] Nick change: craag_ -> craag
[08:26] <daveake> Yeah I'm sure. Dunno how long for though!
[08:27] <craag> Yeah it depends, my 1.8V LDO runs down to 1V output, then gives up.
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[08:56] <fsphil> hah, I only just got into the office
[08:56] <fsphil> an hour to drive 2km
[09:00] <costyn> fsphil: wat... because of the snow?
[09:00] <fsphil> yep
[09:00] <daveake> Got any wellies?
[09:01] <fsphil> I bet it'll all be gone in an hour
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[09:07] <eroomde> fsphil: same
[09:07] <eroomde> except 30 mins to drive 30km
[09:07] <eroomde> so not really the same
[09:08] <eroomde> and there is no snow
[09:08] <eroomde> our journeys are not comparable, really
[09:08] <fsphil> well they both involved a car, and some roads
[09:08] <eroomde> true dat
[09:09] <eroomde> mine involved not quite the bits of music i wanted to listen to
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[09:09] <eroomde> and thinking about a how to explain some stuff that is mathematical to someone without a background in maths
[09:09] <fsphil> us non-math-backgrounders do appreciate that
[09:09] <eroomde> basically i want to graphically explain how to write your own rtty decoder in python
[09:10] <eroomde> + how the fourier transform works
[09:10] <eroomde> to someone who remembers just about trigonometry from school, bit nothing else
[09:10] <eroomde> the rtty decoder bit is fine
[09:10] <zyp> how it works or what it does?
[09:10] Nick change: jevin__ -> jevin
[09:11] <eroomde> but the fourier transform stumbling block basically reduces to how to explain euler's formula
[09:11] <eroomde> in a sort of intuitive way, without just saying 'look, just accept this'
[09:11] <eroomde> zyp: how it works
[09:12] <eroomde> euler formula + the complex plane
[09:12] <fsphil> not even sure what euler's formula is :/
[09:14] <Laurenceb_> exp(i*x)=cos(x)+isin(x)
[09:16] <Laurenceb_> talking of which - im off
[09:17] <eroomde> fsphil: that ^
[09:17] <eroomde> it basically expresses some really beautiful things
[09:17] <zyp> I learned it through the power series proof
[09:18] <zyp> which I think is a nice way of explaining it
[09:18] <costyn> there's a fairly detailed wikipedia article on it, but it's been too long ago for me to remember what it all meant :)
[09:19] <eroomde> and links sin and cos into e, and is the crucial step in an intuitive grasp of how you see how much a given singal overlaps with a sinusoid of a certain freuqnecy to presenting the fourier transform
[09:20] <eroomde> i can graphically show how to get a 'score' for how much of a certain frequency there is in a given signal
[09:20] <eroomde> with graphs and wiggles and stuff
[09:21] <eroomde> and i can explain how you can construct a for loop around that to get a score for each frequency
[09:21] <eroomde> and then plot the array of scores produced by that loop
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[09:22] <eroomde> and that's a discrete fourier transform. but it's a bit of a leap to then say 'tada!' and show this:
[09:22] <eroomde> http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/1/2/a12e5ef76d98bb3f95ee82e29a6c14b2.png
[09:22] <eroomde> and the missing bit is translating the sinusoids i'm graphically multiplying the signal against into that notation based on e
[09:23] <eroomde> and euler's formula is the key to that, but the point he is I want to make it intuitive to people who haven't a mathsy background. so i have to do more than just state it really
[09:24] <eroomde> maybe i don't bother
[09:24] <eroomde> they're equivalent
[09:25] <eroomde> zyp: i think proofs by power series might be a bit too mathematical
[09:26] <zyp> maybe, probably doesn't help if you also need to explain the power series
[09:26] <eroomde> exactly
[09:27] <eroomde> the greeks had this concept of proof called diknume
[09:27] <eroomde> that should be an accute e at the end
[09:27] <eroomde> that's a sort of transliteration of the word anyway
[09:27] <eroomde> and it was based on graphical and geometric methods and held a very strong epistemic status, because it sort of crudely means 'i make it apparent to your senses'
[09:28] <eroomde> in that it's a sort of undeniably simple and obvious proof that you can explain to anyone
[09:28] <eroomde> it doesn't require much conditioning
[09:29] <eroomde> there's a good example in plato's dialogue with meno, who is a slave boy (and plays the role of someone without conditioning) where he shows how to double the area of a square with only a scribe and compass
[09:29] <eroomde> in a way that's completely undeniable because you can see one square has twice the number of internal traingles as the other
[09:30] <eroomde> and the emphasis is basically that you needed no prior knowledge or trust in squiggles, you can just 'see' that this is correct
[09:30] <eroomde> that's the sort of thing i want to do with this, as i'm sure it must be possible
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[09:38] <eroomde> nvm i will ruminate on it a while
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[09:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Paul Swingewood "[UKHAS] Newbie"
[10:00] <eroomde> good
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[10:18] <fsphil> youtube's recommendations are getting worse. watching that rtty beacon video, it's not suggesting reality TV crap
[10:29] <gonzo_> a video of paint drying?
[10:30] <DanielRichman> eroomde: is not your first hurdle explaining what on earth is going on when you raise a number to the power of a complex number?
[10:30] <DanielRichman> or maybe even what a complex no. is...
[10:31] <eroomde> yes it's mroe the complex plane than e that is problematic
[10:33] <eroomde> i don't think there is an intuitive way to explain imaginary numbers
[10:34] <fsphil> they do seem a bit pointless from a non-maths pov
[10:34] <eroomde> i think that's sort of the point in the hisotry of mathematics, back when people were trying to find roots to quintics, that we departed forever from everything being intuition
[10:36] <eroomde> i can hold 4 fish
[10:36] <fsphil> congrats
[10:37] <eroomde> i can just about accept that i can hold -4 fish in as far as i have given you 4 fish
[10:37] <zyp> eroomde, I like to think of them as 2D vectors
[10:37] <eroomde> but i cannot visualise what sqrt(-1) fish looks like
[10:38] <fsphil> is it not just a pair of numbers?
[10:38] <eroomde> zyp: sure you can fudge it a bit and just treat it as some kind of 2d plane and not bring complexity into it
[10:38] <zyp> fsphil, yes, and rules for operating on them
[10:38] <fsphil> like int i[2];
[10:38] <fsphil> yes indeed
[10:38] <fsphil> they seem like a similar deal to a matrix
[10:39] <zyp> adding complex numbers is just adding 2D vectors, multiplying complex numbers is just adding vector angle and multiplying vector magnitude
[10:39] <eroomde> and i don't think the specifc rules about how to treat imaginary numbers actually need to come into it
[10:39] <eroomde> as far as deriving the fft
[10:39] <fsphil> for an fft you can just treat them as pairs
[10:40] <eroomde> but I *think* to show how the fft works you sort of need to work algebraically
[10:41] <eroomde> or ratger, it's actually the simplest notation to demonstrate the split into even and odd parts
[10:41] <eroomde> or maybe not
[10:41] <eroomde> getting ahead of myself really
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[10:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21847581
[10:52] <Laurenceb> oh my god its shocking
[10:52] <Laurenceb> they let guys in there O_o
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[11:01] <m0psi> hi all
[11:02] <m0psi> for ascent and descent rate
[11:02] <m0psi> how do i calculate them
[11:02] <eroomde> ascent rate: the ascent rate calculator which is linked from the little config box in the predictor
[11:02] <costyn> m0psi: ascent you determine yourself by how much helium you use
[11:02] <m0psi> i know it is the resultant force at the neck
[11:03] <costyn> m0psi: descent is a lot faster; lemme check what I got
[11:03] <eroomde> for descent rate, need to know 3 things
[11:03] <m0psi> y, but i want to do it to be relevant to the predictions that i have been planning against
[11:03] <costyn> m0psi: my average descent rate from 35.5k was 16 m/s
[11:03] <eroomde> the mass of your payload, the size of your parachute (uninflated diameter) and the kind of parachute that it is
[11:03] <eroomde> if you don't know the last one i can help
[11:04] <m0psi> i got a 24 inch para from steve
[11:04] <m0psi> and our box is about 30 x 20 x 20
[11:04] <eroomde> ok.
[11:04] <m0psi> cm
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[11:05] <m0psi> weight about 500g
[11:05] <eroomde> 24" in non-unforgivable units is 0.6m
[11:05] <eroomde> i'm going to guess that the Cd of those parachutes is about 0.7
[11:05] <m0psi> don't know yet the precise weight, need to build it
[11:05] <m0psi> cd?
[11:06] <eroomde> the drag equation is: Drag = 0.5*air_density*velocity*velocity*Cd*Area
[11:06] <eroomde> Cd = coefficient of drag
[11:06] <eroomde> how draggy the shape is for a given frontal area
[11:06] <m0psi> ok. this is why i did not do aeronautics engineering :-)
[11:06] <costyn> but descent isn't that critical is it?
[11:06] <eroomde> for example, a bullet train might have the same frontal area as a truck, but a bullet train is much more streamlined than a truck so its drag is lower
[11:07] <eroomde> costyn: well yes
[11:07] <m0psi> (I did enough Reynold numbers in Applied physics degree, to know i don't want any more)
[11:07] <eroomde> the predictor needs to know it to predict, and you need to know it so you can ensure it's not too fast and therefore dangerous
[11:07] <eroomde> so
[11:07] <eroomde> a parachute is in equilibrium so the drag is equal to the weight
[11:07] <m0psi> y, so our box is box shaped :-)
[11:07] <eroomde> weight is equal to mass time gravity - m*g
[11:08] <eroomde> so, m*g = 0.5*air_density*velocity*velocity*Cd*Area
[11:08] <eroomde> re-arrangeing for velocity because that's what we want:
[11:08] <eroomde> V = sqrt((2*m*g)/(air_density*Cd*A))
[11:09] <eroomde> air density we'll take as sea level because that's what counts for landing velocity
[11:09] <eroomde> = 1.22
[11:09] <eroomde> m = 0.5kg you say
[11:09] <eroomde> so
[11:09] <m0psi> so, is the idea to take the most draggy part of the system, and discount any other bits?
[11:09] <eroomde> yeah the parachute is by far the biggest influecne on drag
[11:09] <eroomde> we ignore the drag contribution from the payload
[11:09] <eroomde> unless it's really big and draggy of course. i'm assuming this is a small box relative to the parachute
[11:10] <eroomde> g = 9.81
[11:10] <UpuWork> anyone speak German : http://i.imgur.com/I3nsL4D.png whats it say in the additional information part at the bottom ?
[11:11] <m0psi> straat == street
[11:11] <zyp> «Name and HNR is incorrect»
[11:11] <eroomde> so sqrt((2*0.5*9.81)/(1.22*0.4*0.28[the area of the chute assuming 0.6m diameter])) = 6.3m/s
[11:11] <costyn> UpuWork: seems to say the name and HNR do not match
[11:11] <UpuWork> HNR ?
[11:11] <m0psi> zip?
[11:12] <m0psi> nice, thanks Ed
[11:12] <eroomde> m0psi: maybe a smite on the high side but you'll get away with it
[11:12] <costyn> housenumbering apparently
[11:12] <UpuWork> ok thx
[11:12] <UpuWork> I'll mail the guy cheers all
[11:12] <eroomde> and obviously i've made assumptions about the parachute's Cd and so on
[11:12] <eroomde> but 0.7 is probably about right
[11:12] <m0psi> indeed, but thank you, Ed, much appreciated
[11:13] <m0psi> so, I'm going to call it 6m/s
[11:14] <eroomde> close enough for jazz
[11:14] <eroomde> the predictor, note, doesn't include the fact that some parachutes glide, in its model
[11:14] <m0psi> ok, so for ascent, I need to have a resultant force upwards of F
[11:15] <m0psi> meaning balloon + payload + watertank, just balanced
[11:15] <eroomde> dpdgy parachutes made by overconfident and brash americans, for exmaple, probably glide quite badly (i.e. a lot)
[11:16] <eroomde> m0psi: yes, although the ascent rate calculator has this maths built in
[11:16] <eroomde> so you can just plug in yoyr numbers
[11:16] <m0psi> url please
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[11:16] <eroomde> habhub.org/predict
[11:16] <costyn> eroomde: isn't your rate formula for at sea level?
[11:16] <eroomde> Use burst calculator'
[11:17] <eroomde> costyn: yes, i said that
[11:17] <eroomde> the predictor only needs to know that, it can work out what the rate would be at higher altitudes if only given the sea level descent rate
[11:17] <costyn> eroomde: ah missed that... but for descent rate in the predictor don't you need average descent rate from burst to landing?
[11:17] <costyn> aaaah
[11:17] <eroomde> no!
[11:17] <costyn> clever then :)
[11:18] <eroomde> hover your mouse over the m/s bit in the predictor
[11:18] <eroomde> in the descent rate entry box
[11:19] <costyn> eroomde: I see now :)
[11:22] <m0psi> eroomde: ok, so 500g, Hwoyee1000, 30500m alt, gives 6.15m/s
[11:22] <m0psi> and a neck lift of 2354g
[11:22] <eroomde> what is your control parameter?
[11:23] <eroomde> i.e. are you saying 'i want to reach this altitude, what therefore will the ascent rate be?' or are you saying 'I want to go up at this speed, what therefore is my burst altitude?'
[11:23] <m0psi> so, does that mean i weigh my ballon + box, then make sure my water jug weighs an extra 2.3kg
[11:23] <costyn> eroomde: target burst it seems
[11:23] <m0psi> y, target burst
[11:23] <eroomde> 30500 seems a bit arbitrary
[11:23] <m0psi> 100 ft
[11:24] <m0psi> 100k ft
[11:24] <eroomde> ok, it's not that accurate
[11:24] <costyn> feet?
[11:24] <eroomde> build in some margin
[11:24] <costyn> :)
[11:24] <eroomde> aime for 32 or 33km or something
[11:24] <m0psi> ok
[11:24] <eroomde> if you actually want to break 100kft
[11:24] <costyn> aim for a ascent rate about 5m/s ?
[11:25] <costyn> or maybe a bit more to make sure you don't float
[11:25] <m0psi> yes, it seems i should go for 5m/s
[11:25] <m0psi> so that translates to 1.5kg neck lift
[11:25] <costyn> I've not understood why the target ascent rate input field never matches up with the calculated ascent rate in the result box
[11:26] <eroomde> nfi, i haven't touched the predictor code for about 5 years
[11:26] <mattbrejza> because its a cubic solver in js apparently
[11:26] <eroomde> maths in js
[11:26] <eroomde> gosh
[11:26] <mattbrejza> that gets errors in it, then it works back to see what the actual burst is given all the collected errors
[11:27] <mattbrejza> so said adam
[11:28] <jonsowman> https://github.com/adamgreig/cusf-burst-calc
[11:28] <m0psi> so eroomde; neck lift = 1544g means, i should get 1.5kg more weight in the bucket, than the weight of the balloon+box. Is that the nub of it?
[11:28] <jonsowman> https://github.com/adamgreig/cusf-burst-calc/blob/master/js/calc.js
[11:28] <jonsowman> :|
[11:28] <costyn> mattbrejza: hah, ok thx :)
[11:28] <eroomde> m0psi: no
[11:29] <eroomde> neck lift is the *total* lift at the neck
[11:29] <mattbrejza> also generally the payload isnt attached at the filling stage
[11:29] <eroomde> so the *free lift* or *excess lift* or whatever you want to call it is neck lift - payload mass
[11:29] <m0psi> ok, let me clarify
[11:29] <jonsowman> https://github.com/adamgreig/cusf-burst-calc/blob/master/js/calc.js#L273
[11:29] <jonsowman> lol
[11:30] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
[11:32] <HixWork> Upu, think name and housenumber are incorrect?
[11:32] <eroomde> 'i want content for my shill-blog, write it for me please'
[11:32] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
[11:32] <UpuWork> cheers Hix
[11:33] <mattbrejza> ive never got a 'Three possible solutions found' message, adams trig doesnt seem used then
[11:37] <m0psi> The waterjug is what is used to hang off the balloon while filling. You are looking to balance them. If the water weighs the same as the payload + X, then X will be what is the resultant force up. if X is equal to the neck lift caculated, then we get a burst on that alt.
[11:38] <m0psi> so, water = payload + neckLift
[11:38] <eroomde> no
[11:38] <eroomde> still no
[11:38] <m0psi> :-(
[11:38] <eroomde> water = necklift
[11:38] <m0psi> ok, tell me
[11:38] <fsphil> if(water == necklift) balloon_floats() :)
[11:39] <m0psi> exactly, i agree with fsphil
[11:39] <eroomde> during fill you have a buck with water hanging off the balloon and nothing else
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[11:39] <fsphil> m0psi: you included the payload
[11:39] <eroomde> we will ignore the mass of the fill tube for the time being
[11:39] <m0psi> y
[11:40] <eroomde> the calculator has given you a paramater called 'neck lift'
[11:40] <eroomde> that is the lift exerted by the neck of the balloon on whatever it is attached to
[11:41] <eroomde> the neck lift needs to be greater than the mass of the payload, so that it is postiviely bouyant, i.e. the whole balloon/payload system will ascend
[11:41] <eroomde> so, payload_mass + free_lift = neck_lift
[11:42] <eroomde> you want the bucket of water mass to be the neck lift, i.e. the payload mass + free lift
[11:42] <eroomde> so that you know you have put enough helium in because the balloon, with the bucket of water hanging off it, will be neautrally bouyant
[11:42] <eroomde> or more practically, until the balloon will only just start to life the bucket of water slightly
[11:43] <fsphil> this is much easier to do indoors
[11:43] <fsphil> if you have an indoors with a big enough door to fit an inflated balloon
[11:43] <eroomde> at that point you detach the bucket and seal the balloon and attach the payload
[11:44] Nick change: fsphil -> Fsphil
[11:44] <m0psi> ok, bottom line >> water = necklift
[11:44] <eroomde> correct
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[11:44] <eroomde> except, subtract the mass of the fill tube from the bucket of water
[11:44] <m0psi> need a diagram on that burst calc :-)
[11:44] <eroomde> so that free lift = fill_tube + bucket_of_water
[11:44] <eroomde> er, sorry
[11:45] <eroomde> neck_lift = fill_tube + bucket_of_water
[11:45] <m0psi> ok, that is a useful simple formula
[11:45] <eroomde> I try my hardest
[11:45] <m0psi> you do well mate :-)
[11:46] <m0psi> thanks Ed
[11:46] <eroomde> np
[11:46] <eroomde> it all makes sense once you do the first launch yourself
[11:47] <m0psi> y
[11:47] <m0psi> i guess it is a matter of hanging the fill tube off a spring scale, and guestimating that
[11:48] <m0psi> because it is going to be different depending how much is off the ground
[11:48] <eroomde> yep
[11:48] <eroomde> something rough will do
[11:48] <m0psi> y
[11:48] <eroomde> if you have a spring scale and it's not windy, just use that to measure neck lift
[11:49] <eroomde> the problem is if it is windy, the balloon drag also contributes to the force on the spring scale
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[11:49] <m0psi> y, it really is a miracle that any hab gets launched
[11:49] <m0psi> wayyyy to many factors to go wrong
[11:50] <eroomde> and if you do do bucket, note what i mentioned earlier - we define neutrally bouyant actually as very slightly positively bouyant
[11:50] <m0psi> mind you that is the same with humans, yet they survived millions of years
[11:50] <eroomde> i.e. it starts to slowly lift off if you let go of the bucket
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[11:50] <m0psi> y, i remember that with dave akerman
[11:51] <m0psi> i went out to help on two launches, one was the BBC one
[11:51] <m0psi> well, it is quite exciting
[11:52] <m0psi> the hourly predictor is showing better for us
[11:52] <m0psi> hoping for 12ish on Tuesday
[11:52] <eroomde> not long
[11:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Newbie"
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[12:11] <HixWork> hot air station ordered Sunday from China has just hit my desk. That's some impressive shipping service
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[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "Re: [UKHAS] Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
[12:20] <costyn> HixWork: that is very impressive yes
[12:21] <HixWork> makes you angry when so many UK companies can't get stuff to you in the time it takes a company on the other side of the world to do
[12:31] <gonzo_> annoying that they can get stuff to the uk, but uit takes weeks for the uk shippers to get it the last 25 miles to you
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[12:36] <Fsphil> I've never had ice forming on a helium cylinder
[12:36] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Re: Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
[12:36] <Fsphil> does happen anyone else?
[12:37] <gonzo_> I suspect that the usual rates we empty a bottle, it is not going to freeze up.
[12:38] <gonzo_> had it on LPG often though. That is fun.
[12:38] <gonzo_> as it is liquid, so you have a state change, rather than simple expansion
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[12:45] <cuddykid> I've had the cylinder go ridiculously cold - though the -8 temps probably didn't help
[12:49] <Fsphil> you had a head start
[12:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
[12:52] <cuddykid> nice explanation eroomde
[12:58] <gonzo_> I've had propane bottles freeze up the reg. But I expect the effect is orders of magnitude different from just gas expansion
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[13:03] Nick change: omlin -> omlette
[13:03] Nick change: omlette -> domlen
[13:03] Nick change: domlen -> domlin
[13:03] <domlin> there we go
[13:06] <domlin> hello all
[13:07] <costyn> yep, nice one eroomde
[13:12] <Fsphil> hiya domlin
[13:12] <Fsphil> omlette would be nice about now
[13:13] <domlin> it would :( bit of ham, some cheese, maybe even some eggs
[13:16] <domlin> anyway, how are you Fsphil ? apart from having the overwhelming need for an omlette
[13:17] <Fsphil> not too bad, enjoying an unexpected fall of snow. had a brief snowball fight earlier
[13:17] <Fsphil> how's things yonder?
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[13:19] <domlin> things aren't too bad. at work currently
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[13:26] <Fsphil> same here. been a day of printer and barcode scanner failures
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[13:50] <Fsphil> love it, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21848104
[13:51] <Fsphil> this guys doing the project I always wanted to do
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[13:56] <Upu> I see a rock block in there
[13:56] <Brace> Fsphil: wow, that's awesome
[13:56] <Fsphil> makes sense
[13:56] <eroomde> pic from the fab house of board progress
[13:56] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/6WZO772.jpg
[13:56] <Fsphil> I got as far as an RC boat from ebay, stripped to just the hull and motors
[13:57] <UpuWork> Though can I point out
[13:57] <UpuWork> they are going to cross the Atlantic and they are testing in a bath
[13:57] <Fsphil> but there is no way the motors would have lasted long enough to cross the atlantic
[13:57] <Fsphil> or the little plastic prop
[13:57] <Fsphil> might have lasted an hour :)
[13:58] <Fsphil> very tidy eroomde
[13:58] <UpuWork> using a UK place then eroomde :)
[13:58] <eroomde> irish
[13:58] <eroomde> but yes
[13:58] <eroomde> 3 day service
[13:59] <UpuWork> yeah takes Mitch 6 days to come back to you these days :/
[13:59] <eroomde> indeed
[13:59] <UpuWork> still cheap though
[13:59] <eroomde> mitch for when i can wait a month
[13:59] <eroomde> which is usually never for work projects
[14:00] <Fsphil> that the german/irish pcb company?
[14:01] <eroomde> vy yah it iz, to be sure
[14:01] <UpuWork> see what you did...
[14:02] <Fsphil> nothing funnier than a german speaking english with an irish accent
[14:02] <eroomde> i dunno
[14:02] <eroomde> they was a guy called ivan at uni who learnt english in wales
[14:02] <Fsphil> hah
[14:02] <eroomde> his accent was spectacular
[14:02] <eroomde> he was chinese, i should say
[14:03] <jonsowman> Fsphil: why is your F capitalised today?
[14:03] <eroomde> so it was chinese/welsh english
[14:03] <jonsowman> it is distressingly unfamiliar
[14:03] <eroomde> what does the fs stand for anyway?
[14:03] <Fsphil> my first every website was firestorm.cx
[14:03] <Fsphil> -y
[14:04] <gonzo_> some friends were off in the mud hut areas of africa and heard the loca kids talking the few english words they knew, with a brummie accnent
[14:04] <Fsphil> the webcam code for it was called fswebcam
[14:04] <Fsphil> and I just kept the fs*
[14:04] <eroomde> if michael bay did URLs
[14:05] <Fsphil> jonsowman: it is really odd isn't it
[14:05] <jonsowman> very
[14:05] Nick change: Fsphil -> fsphil
[14:07] <jonsowman> normality is restored
[14:07] <jonsowman> anything you still can't deal with is therefore your own problem, etc
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[14:49] <cuddykid> any RC people that know what's up here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu6r8XX0L0U
[14:49] <cuddykid> tried manually calibrating multiple times but no luck
[14:52] <zyp> video is not loading here, can you describe what happens?
[14:53] <Hix> do you have 4 separate ESCs? can you swap one over, I've had similar on a plane once, replaces ESC and it was fine
[14:54] <cuddykid> zyp: juddery motor (basically not spinning) when throttled
[14:54] <cuddykid> Hix: got 6 all together - yep, might try that after lunch
[14:54] <eroomde> not looking at video either as at work but juddery motor implies it's brusgless?
[14:55] <cuddykid> yep
[14:55] <eroomde> brushless*
[14:55] <eroomde> ok cool
[14:55] <eroomde> so possibly some kind of phasing issue, might be explained if one of the phases isn;t working properly
[14:55] <eroomde> eg one of the mosfets has blown
[14:55] <cuddykid> ah
[14:59] <eroomde> so assuming it's 3 phases, A, B and C, say C is broken, the current will peak in A then peak in B (pulling it in the direction of B from A) and then you'd expect it to be pulled round further to C and then back to A. But if C is broken then It will be pulled towards B from A, then nothing will happen when the C pulse is meant to happen, then it will get back to A again which will actually try and pull it back in the opposite direction, from B (where it
[15:01] <eroomde> heh look, a quick google contains a diagram that actually has the labels A, B and C
[15:01] <eroomde> http://www.avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/4-Pole-brushless-DC-motor-animation.jpg
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[15:02] <cuddykid> that sounds like the problem - however, an other motor was doing the same until esc calibration then it just started working :S - I'll try a couple more calibration attempts and swap escs over
[15:03] <eroomde> sure, so the other thing is to do with how it detects where the armature is
[15:03] <eroomde> and you'll get the same effect if it's firing all he phases off at the wrong times
[15:03] <cuddykid> i see - that could well be what's wrong
[15:04] <eroomde> if it's hall effect, there is a relationship between when the hall effect pings and when you want to fire a specific phase, i guess that needs calibrating in
[15:04] <eroomde> i'm not sure, never used a brushless motor for anything myself
[15:04] <eroomde> maybe ask someone who knows what they're talking about :)
[15:04] <cuddykid> :)
[15:06] <Laurenceb> looks like blown fet or missing connection on one wire to me
[15:06] <eroomde> i'm not sure i like that diagram
[15:07] <eroomde> again i've not ever made a mbrushless motor controller, but i'd be incluned, given a blank sheet of paper, to try and pwm a proper sinusoid into the armatures
[15:07] <eroomde> instead of half bridge bang bang
[15:07] <eroomde> especially for motion control stuff
[15:15] <cuddykid> ok, it's not the motor - swapped over the esc and now works.. so it's a problem with the esc
[15:15] <cuddykid> can't seem to calibrate it
[15:16] <eroomde> do you have a scope?
[15:17] <cuddykid> unfortunately not
[15:17] <eroomde> troublesome
[15:17] <eroomde> do you have a multimeter?
[15:18] <cuddykid> yep
[15:18] <eroomde> does it have frequency measurement?
[15:18] Nick change: prawnsalad -> 20WAB5CBD
[15:19] <cuddykid> no :(
[15:19] <eroomde> hmm
[15:19] <eroomde> can you try and fire up the motor again and then give it a spin manually (as if trying to set off a spinning top) and see if it fires up?
[15:19] <cuddykid> tried, and no go
[15:20] <eroomde> why are you working ona quadcopter without a scope or a multimeter?
[15:20] <eroomde> madness
[15:20] <eroomde> like trying to drive with a blindfold
[15:20] <Hix> which esc is it cuddykid
[15:20] <eroomde> oh no you do have a MM
[15:20] <eroomde> sorry
[15:21] <cuddykid> lol eroomde
[15:22] Nick change: 20WAB5CBD -> prawnsalad
[15:22] <cuddykid> Hix: rapid esc 22A
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[15:23] <Hix> HK?
[15:23] <cuddykid> nope http://www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/rc-gear/bl-motor-esc/22a-multi-rotor-esc-simonk-rapidesc.html
[15:24] <eroomde> get a multimeter cuddykid
[15:24] <eroomde> we, a scope
[15:24] <eroomde> s/we/er
[15:24] <eroomde> i give up with typing
[15:24] <eroomde> scope the different phases
[15:24] <Hix> heh, not just me :)
[15:25] <eroomde> old trusty tektronix analogue ones are great and you can get them off ebay for the price of a lipo pack
[15:25] <eroomde> and they're also less scary to plug into noisy big-dc-motor environments
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[15:26] <Hix> http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/Doc/Flashing+Instructions
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[15:50] <zyp> cuddykid, I also once had a broken ESC that acted like that
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[15:53] <Hix> what sort of temp and flow are general norms for hot air work? air is 1-7
[15:53] <eroomde> cuddykid: looked at your video
[15:53] <eroomde> secondly, i'm still happy to support my hypothosis
[15:54] <cuddykid> haha eroomde
[15:54] <Hix> haha
[16:21] <arko> morning
[16:21] <Hix> sup Arko
[16:22] <arko> nm, need coffee
[16:22] <Hix> heh, another sleep marathon then ;p
[16:22] <arko> worried how i'm going to redesign my power system for the hab
[16:22] <Hix> aren't you t minus 1 week
[16:22] <arko> i didn't think 8 AA lithums could make 14.4 volts
[16:22] <arko> yes
[16:22] <arko> 1 week away.. <_<
[16:23] <arko> it's not my favorite situation, but im sure its going to get solved
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[16:26] <cuddykid> woo, after about the 50th calibration they're all working!
[16:27] <Hix> sweet
[16:27] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[16:27] <eroomde> arko: what's wrong with it atm?
[16:27] <Hix> g'day chrisstubbs
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[16:28] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, copter working?
[16:29] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: well, I finally have got all the motors spinning :D
[16:30] <Hix> what have you got controlling it cuddykid?
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> awesome!
[16:30] <cuddykid> Hix: APM2.0 on board with turnigy 9x rc controller
[16:30] <mattbrejza> the lazy way would be to discharge them for a little while, those lithums have a high initial voltage but only for a short time of their lifetime arko
[16:32] <arko> eroomde: the power transistor is rated for 13.2v
[16:32] <arko> the 8 AA batteries at full charge give me 14.4v
[16:32] <eroomde> i would have thought it would cope with 14.4
[16:32] <arko> what could?
[16:32] <eroomde> the power transistor
[16:32] <arko> i mean rf power amp
[16:33] <arko> sorry, need coffee
[16:33] <arko> heh
[16:33] <eroomde> oh
[16:33] <eroomde> hmm
[16:33] <arko> i dont want to hurt it
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[16:33] <eroomde> well it still might cope with 14.4
[16:33] <mattbrejza> add a couple of diodes...
[16:33] <arko> yeah i know, but after so many tests it could degrade
[16:33] <Hix> how much did the s
[16:33] <Hix> APM cost you cuddykid
[16:33] <arko> i thought about discharge, but that seems kinda bad
[16:34] <arko> then i removed 1 battery
[16:34] <cuddykid> Hix: about £100 - managed to get a £50 discount
[16:34] <arko> so it came down to 12.5v
[16:34] <arko> after last nights driving around and testing
[16:34] <arko> after 2 hours it was at 10.3v
[16:34] <arko> which is ok, since the minimum voltage of the whole circuit is 8v
[16:34] <arko> but my fear is dropping even further down
[16:34] <Hix> oh neat, where did you get it? i was looking a while back but they were prohibitively expensive
[16:34] <arko> 4 hours laters you know?
[16:35] <arko> at the moment im contacting the RF power amp's manufacturer to see if over volting would degrade it
[16:36] <Hix> just need the MAX7s to arrive now cuddykid
[16:37] <cuddykid> Hix: I got all my stuff from unmannedtechshop.co.uk
[16:37] <Hix> k
[16:37] <cuddykid> they seem to take ages to get stuff back in stock, then it goes in no time
[16:37] <cuddykid> yeah, max7s are going to be awesome
[16:37] <cuddykid> I've got the rubbish mediatek on the APM2
[16:40] <UpuWork> [16:37] <cuddykid> yeah, max7s are going to be awesome <- ~ 3.3v
[16:40] <UpuWork> ~=@
[16:40] <UpuWork> oh you mean 10hz updates
[16:40] <UpuWork> rgr
[16:41] <jonsowman> ^ is that a perl regex?
[16:41] <jonsowman> :P
[16:41] <UpuWork> perl regex does look like someone with a large bottom has sat on a keyboard
[16:41] <cuddykid> UpuWork: mostly for habing
[16:41] <UpuWork> at 3.3v they are much better power consumption
[16:42] <UpuWork> at 1.8v there isn't much difference between it and the 6G
[16:42] <cuddykid> UpuWork: would work nicely in the glider actually - is it still 10hz in flight mode?
[16:42] <UpuWork> 7C may last fractionally longer
[16:42] <UpuWork> 10hz in any dynamic mode
[16:42] <UpuWork> Anyone want to buy the insides of an old single port Zyxel router ? : http://imgur.com/a/Zx7Nr
[16:43] <cuddykid> nice
[16:43] <Hix> what baud do they need for 10Hz
[16:43] <UpuWork> more than 9600
[16:43] <UpuWork> I think I ran it at 11500
[16:43] <UpuWork> 115200 even
[16:43] <jonsowman> that's really neat UpuWork
[16:43] <jonsowman> :D
[16:43] <UpuWork> hot glue ftw
[16:44] <Hix> heh, did you get a cozycave dongle?
[16:44] <UpuWork> yeah
[16:44] <jonsowman> you should totally wire up the 10/100 LED in anticipation of future HAB communication
[16:44] <Hix> rude not to
[16:44] <UpuWork> lol
[16:45] <mattbrejza> label it 50/300
[16:45] <mattbrejza> put in a rpi
[16:45] <UpuWork> haha
[16:45] <Hix> UpuWork: what do you recommend for hot air settings?
[16:45] <Hix> been playing with 375 on an old motherboard, but still takes a while
[16:46] <Hix> heatsoak++bad
[16:46] <UpuWork> for the ublox ?
[16:46] <Hix> anything really
[16:46] <UpuWork> generally warm it up at 100 for a min or two then turn it up to 300 for a short period
[16:46] <UpuWork> but motherboards can use higher temp solder
[16:46] <Hix> ah oki
[16:46] <UpuWork> also they take more heating up
[16:47] <UpuWork> if the motherboard is dead just whack it up till it melts something
[16:47] <Hix> heh
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> has anybody used those cheap ebay handheld digital oscilloscopes?
[16:53] <eroomde> yes
[16:53] <UpuWork> no but generally if it doesn't have twiddly knobs on its going to be a PITA
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, what did you think?
[16:53] <eroomde> get a proper one
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> I have a proper one. it just occupies the entire desk
[16:54] <chrisstubbs> :P
[16:54] <eroomde> if constrained by money, an old tektronix or hameg 20MHz analogue one, you can pick them up for nothing and they're great
[16:54] <eroomde> if constrained by space, get the modern replacements like the rigol
[16:54] <chrisstubbs> i have a hameg 20mhz :P got it for £20 from my college :)
[16:54] <eroomde> if seriously onstrained by space, get a rigol or fluke portable one
[16:54] <eroomde> fine
[16:54] <eroomde> you're all set then
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> I was just interested to see what those little ones were actually like
[16:55] <eroomde> bit crap i thought
[16:56] <jonsowman> I'm tempted to try the DSO nano for some mains stuff
[16:56] <chrisstubbs> ah shame, they look pretty cool. But you cant expect much for £40 or wahtever they are
[16:56] <jonsowman> low frequency, logging helps, battery powered is good
[16:57] <jonsowman> not a replacement for a proper scope ofc, and I have a hameg CRO
[16:57] <jonsowman> but for £60 it does some useful things
[16:58] <eroomde> i'd build one as a project if you're only interested in going up to say 50kHz
[16:59] <jonsowman> in theory yes, but time...
[16:59] <eroomde> make a nice analog front end and filtering chain and maybe feed it into a screen + pi
[16:59] <eroomde> becuase pi
[16:59] <jonsowman> it is an option
[17:00] <jonsowman> for £60 I might give it a try
[17:00] <Laurenceb> supposedly someone got uclinux running on an f4discovery.. from internal flash
[17:00] <jonsowman> and not expect miracles
[17:00] <Laurenceb> i want to try this for nerd points
[17:00] <eroomde> well there is like 1M internal flash on the bigger ones
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[17:00] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:01] <eroomde> and uCLinux is designed to not need an MMU right?
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[17:01] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[17:01] <Laurenceb> they used XIP with romfs
[17:02] <Laurenceb> seems ethernet, serial, i2c spi and sdio is supported
[17:04] <eroomde> nice
[17:04] <Laurenceb> needs external ram to be practical, but the new F4 supports SDRAM
[17:04] <Laurenceb> unfortunately no discovery board for it
[17:05] <eroomde> could put it on an xmega :)
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[17:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Gas Cylinder Safety considerations"
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[17:13] <chrisstubbs> Hows the board going Hix?
[17:18] <Hix> tits up
[17:18] <Hix> messed up voltage divider fro ntx2
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[17:28] <arko> how did you pull that off?
[17:29] <swingeyp> hello?
[17:29] <swingeyp> Oh I see how it works now
[17:29] <arko> welcome to irc
[17:29] <swingeyp> Hello arko
[17:29] <swingeyp> Not tried this before
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[17:30] <swingeyp> At least now I know it works
[17:32] <arko> huzah
[17:33] <eroomde> that's the second person in the last two days who is definitely very new to IRC
[17:33] <eroomde> welcome swingeyp
[17:35] <Hix> me arko?
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[17:46] <arko> yeah
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[18:01] <Hix> by being a mong basically....
[18:02] <Hix> but all isn't lost. External radio ==better insulated
[18:03] <arko> damn, i can't think of a title for my hab talk for Layerone
[18:03] <arko> its like the last thing left so i can submit
[18:04] <Hix> security conf???
[18:04] <arko> yeah, you've heard of it?
[18:04] <Hix> nah, goog :)
[18:04] <arko> ah
[18:04] <arko> haha
[18:04] <arko> ya
[18:04] <arko> it's expanding with hardware hacking too now
[18:04] <arko> so not just computer sec
[18:04] <Hix> thought it was similar to element14
[18:05] <arko> you should come, i run the hardware hacking village there :)
[18:05] <arko> metcals, microscopes, lots of fun stuff
[18:05] <Hix> I'm fresh outta LHR-LAX tickets :)
[18:05] <chrisstubbs> Hix ahhh man. Sorry just got back after dealing with the hopeless insurance company
[18:05] <cuddykid> first attempt at flying this hex - flips on takeoff! Fortunately haven't lost a prop just yet..
[18:05] <Hix> cuddykid: have you flown stuff before?
[18:06] <cuddykid> Hix: a while back
[18:06] <cuddykid> didn't go great, put it that way :P
[18:06] <Hix> chrisstubbs: no biggie, just external radio
[18:06] <Hix> sounds like this could be expensive cuddykid
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> Ahh :( What was messed up on it. didnt put enough resistors on?
[18:06] <Hix> you need phoenixsim
[18:06] <cuddykid> I know :( ha
[18:07] <Hix> chrisstubbs: one res goest to vcc instead of gnd
[18:07] <Hix> but it messes the lot up, just do it externally and heatshrink it
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> ah fair play. shame about that
[18:08] <chrisstubbs> can you not cut the trace and bridge it to the gnd plane?
[18:08] <Hix> s'tappens
[18:08] <Hix> nope its in the middle o things
[18:08] <chrisstubbs> aha one of those "wow that was easy to route, what could possibly be wrong" moments :P
[18:09] <Hix> spend too long looking at things and everything all blends into thats all good
[18:09] <Hix> wood for trees etc etc
[18:09] <chrisstubbs> Sounds about right
[18:10] <Hix> just glad it wasnt atmega or ublox
[18:10] <chrisstubbs> if s..t isnt hitting the fan, your not getting enough s..t done
[18:10] <Hix> or you forgot the fan
[18:11] <chrisstubbs> yeah that would have been painful. i forgot to break out the reset pin on my atmega so i have to tap the pull up res. whenever i program it
[18:11] <chrisstubbs> i did solder onto the pad but the wire broke off. lucky the pad didnt come with it!
[18:13] <Hix> neither did i bit icsp seems to cope
[18:13] <Hix> did put 10k inline though
[18:13] <chrisstubbs> im serial programming but broke out ICSP to get the bootloader on
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> oh well its all learning
[18:14] <Hix> heh
[18:14] <Hix> amazing how simple stuff is until you screw it eh...
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> remembered to put decoupling caps on this time at least :P
[18:14] <Hix> always good
[18:15] <chrisstubbs> yeah tends to help
[18:16] <chrisstubbs> i must say im happy with the TI TLV70032 vreg. small yet surprisingly easy to solder
[18:16] <Hix> free sample
[18:16] <chrisstubbs> yeahh man :)
[18:16] <Hix> thought so from TI
[18:16] <Hix> spose i should really be blagging samples
[18:17] <chrisstubbs> nice company doing samples. makes me much more enclined to buy/reccomend them
[18:17] <Hix> especially since i nuked my GSM vreg
[18:17] <Hix> SOT-233 but 2A requirement
[18:17] <chrisstubbs> ahh yeah i saw, what happened to it again?
[18:17] <Hix> i applied too many voltjolts
[18:18] <chrisstubbs> ah yeah, damm thing
[18:18] <Hix> wallwart was only 1500mAh so, unfortunately 1V too high figured use another
[18:18] <Hix> hmm dunno how that rearranged
[18:19] <Hix> right food bbl
[18:19] <chrisstubbs> laters man
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[18:27] <costyn> oh god high power LEDs ... http://stores.ebay.com/2012topdeal/High-Power-LEDs-/_i.html?_fsub=3668204017&_sid=1119669027&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[18:33] <griffonbot> @ApexLumia: I'm at 51.34955, -0.22819 at an altitude of 50.4m http://t.co/WK9kDoFqSH #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/ApexLumia/status/314444544324300800]
[18:33] <arko> CREE <3
[18:36] <griffonbot> @ApexLumia: I'm at 51.34976, -0.22846 at an altitude of 42.9m http://t.co/I3D7Bh4cXx #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/ApexLumia/status/314445395445043200]
[18:36] <fsphil> if these LEDs keep getting more powerful then the Star Trek movie might have got it right. Say NO to lens flare!
[18:38] <costyn> I sure hope ApexLumia is going to stop twittering soon, in any case with the #ukhas tag
[18:38] <fsphil> yea that'll get old pretty quick
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[18:39] <danielsaul> oops, will turn twitter update off
[18:40] <jonsowman> ta
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:15] <m0psi> hi all, what does DL stand for in DL-Fldigi? Distributed X
[19:15] <fsphil> listener
[19:15] <m0psi> ah
[19:15] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[19:15] <m0psi> ta
[19:15] <fsphil> was a great idea to have all the receivers upload data
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> how is everyone?
[19:16] <fsphil> all good here LL, you?
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thanks
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> save for the snow
[19:18] <fsphil> snow is awesom
[19:18] <fsphil> +e
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea but not on march 20
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[19:18] <fsphil> especially today
[19:19] <x-f> snow in spring means it's one of the last ones and the summer is comming
[19:20] <x-f> put there too many "ones" i think
[19:21] <fsphil> we had some today too Lunar_Lander, http://flic.kr/p/e4AFmF
[19:22] <fsphil> nobody expected it
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> flicker failed
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't load atm
[19:22] <fsphil> imagine lots of snow
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, now the link works but only gives a white page
[19:32] <fsphil> there wasn't *that* much snow
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:38] <mfa298> I can see snow in that picture
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[19:39] <mfa298> we even had some in the south last week which is also wrong.
[19:40] <fsphil> we don't often get any
[19:40] <fsphil> and this-morning we had more than we had all winter
[19:41] <mfa298> maybe all this unusual weather will mean we have a sunny summer
[19:42] <fsphil> I'm too much a programmer for that kind of optimism :)
[19:42] <fsphil> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-107
[19:42] <fsphil> ah well, nearly
[19:43] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
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[19:48] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/8368107487/in/photostream
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> seriously fsphil
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> i thought you were about cosplay
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> *above
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/RI1hzKH.jpg
[19:52] <lz1dev> /fq 16
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[19:53] <fsphil> glad I didn't upload the princess leia one
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[19:54] <Laurenceb_> ...
[19:57] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/wTdF0QC.gif
[19:57] <lz1dev> this sum up quite well how i play sc2
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[20:21] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/wTdF0QC.gif
[20:21] <arko> damn it
[20:22] <arko> got caught in my copy clipboard
[20:22] <arko> haha
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[20:23] <lz1dev> :D
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[20:27] <arko> after watching fsphil's balloon burst video i just got the sinking gut feeling that that's what mine will be doing in 1 week
[20:27] <arko> looks a little more violent than i thought
[20:27] <fsphil> it isn't always
[20:27] <arko> yeah
[20:27] <fsphil> a lot of the clips I've seen are quite calm
[20:27] <arko> im sure
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[20:28] <arko> but still
[20:28] <arko> it should be able to survive that
[20:28] <arko> time to add more tape :P
[20:28] <fsphil> yes
[20:28] <arko> tape all the things!
[20:28] <arko> do you work for the bbc?
[20:29] <fsphil> nah, just helping them out with that launch
[20:29] <arko> landing site seemed a little scary btw, perfect place to run it over
[20:29] <arko> oh cool
[20:29] <fsphil> we nearly did
[20:29] <lz1dev> arko: look on the bright side
[20:29] <fsphil> the road was a dead end thankfully, we where there for about 40 minutes and didn't see any cars
[20:29] <lz1dev> you have the chance to land somewhere exotic
[20:30] <arko> true
[20:30] <arko> i wish there were more roads in the mojave
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[20:39] <x-f> http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5973/sillycl.jpg
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[21:08] <anerDev> Hey hey guys !
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[21:29] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko and x-f
[21:45] <eroomde> but no one else
[21:45] <daveake> yes certainly not me
[21:45] <daveake> or you for that matter
[21:45] <arko> haha
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[21:57] <arko> eroomde: http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html
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[21:58] <eroomde> yep saw that
[21:58] <eroomde> very cool
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[21:59] <arko> wonder where it's going to rest
[21:59] <Willdude123> Am I the only one who read the URL in a dirty way?
[22:00] <arko> bezo sex peditions
[22:00] <arko> interesting
[22:00] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-180-100-11.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:01] <eroomde> i remember when experts-exchange.com added the hyphen in panic
[22:01] <arko> haha!!
[22:02] <Willdude123> Anyone got any ideas of what to do now I can't study or do High Altitude Ballooning
[22:02] <Willdude123> ?
[22:02] <arko> challenge friends into a rap battle
[22:03] <arko> play zelda ocarina of time
[22:03] <eroomde> robotics
[22:03] <arko> ^^^
[22:03] <arko> building robots is the best
[22:04] <arko> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=zerg-like+curve&x=0&y=0
[22:04] <arko> oh wolfram
[22:04] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU-tuY0Z7nQ
[22:04] <Willdude123> Where do I start with robotics though?
[22:05] <arko> motors and motor controllers
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> willdude with motors
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> lol
[22:05] <arko> pretty much sparkfun.com
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[22:05] <eroomde> i agree. sparkfun is good
[22:05] <eroomde> i'd pick something interesting you want to do. perhaps a line following robot
[22:06] <arko> oh yeah
[22:06] <arko> my first robotics experiences were the lego mindstorms
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake eroomde Willdude123 chrisstubbs
[22:06] <arko> were with the*
[22:06] <Willdude123> Maybe I shpu
[22:06] <chrisstubbs> howdy lunar
[22:06] Nick change: daveake -> ignored_again
[22:06] <arko> best christmas ever
[22:06] <Willdude123> should get one.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> dave was mentioned first
[22:06] <Willdude123> Hi Lunar Lander.
[22:07] <arko> they are a bit expensive
[22:07] <arko> but worth it
[22:07] <ignored_again> who's dave?
[22:07] Action: Willdude123 is shocked
[22:07] Nick change: ignored_again -> daveake
[22:07] Action: Willdude123 can't believe this person hasn't met dave
[22:07] Action: Willdude123 realises he has been stupid
[22:08] <daveake> lol
[22:08] Action: Willdude123 realises that was dave
[22:08] Action: Willdude123 quits his running commentary and stops using /me.
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, figure out what kind of robot to build, maybe it could solve some kind of problem, or just be silly!
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> instructables is full of ideas if you are stuck for a project
[22:09] <arko> oh yeah, instructables!
[22:09] <Willdude123> Hmm.
[22:10] <arko> sparkfun has good tutorials too
[22:10] <arko> https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials
[22:10] <Willdude123> I'm learning Korean just for the hell of it.
[22:12] <arko> taking starcraft a bit seriously are we?
[22:12] <eroomde> Willdude123: SICP!
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, i guess you have an arduino? ;)
[22:12] <Willdude123> Yes!
[22:12] <Willdude123> And yes.
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> keypad / rfid bedroom door lock is always a cool project
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[22:13] <chrisstubbs> or somthing pi based if you like making things complicated
[22:13] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[22:15] <Willdude123> I perhaps need some non-science and technology based things to do, like things normal people do as well, just to balance it out.
[22:15] <m0psi> hi all. I'm just making up the final version of the tx sentence, and i was wondering about likelyhood of success. The longer the sentence, the more chance of a dropped char, and therefore no match with the checksum. So, the shorter the sentence the more chances of a 'good' sentence on Rx. So, any rule of thumb on this?
[22:15] <eroomde> ukhas standard
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> Willdude123: I've been thinking about things you could try
[22:16] <eroomde> do you have additional infor you want to send down m0psi ?
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> I was wondering, maybe you could try and get a girlfriend?
[22:16] <m0psi> not the formatting, but the length
[22:16] <m0psi> short answer, yes
[22:16] <Willdude123> Laurence_: Don't go there, please.
[22:17] <m0psi> sprintf(txBuffer, "$$$$$WASP-1,%u,%02u:%02u:%02d,%s,%s,%u,%u,%u,%s,%s,%s,%s,%i",
[22:17] <m0psi> record1.sequence_no, record1.hour, record1.minute,
[22:17] <m0psi> record1.second, trim(latString), trim(longString),
[22:17] <m0psi> record1.altitude, record1.velocity, record1.sats,
[22:17] <m0psi> internalTemperatureString, internalHumidityString,
[22:17] <m0psi> externalTemperatureString, externalHumidityString, batteryvoltage);
[22:17] <Randomskk> that's a lot of things m0psi
[22:17] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_, on topic or not at all please
[22:17] <m0psi> too long huh? I figured
[22:17] <m0psi> :-(
[22:17] <Randomskk> m0psi: well it'l probably work and stuff
[22:17] <Randomskk> but
[22:17] <Randomskk> maybe have a "short" sentence and a long one and alternate?
[22:17] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:17] <Randomskk> or like, one long sentence per two or three shorts
[22:17] Laurenceb_ kicked from #highaltitude by eroomde: Laurenceb_
[22:18] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-177-214-199.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] #highaltitude: mode change '+b *!*Laurence@*.range86-177.btcentralplus.com' by eroomde!~ed@kraken.habhub.org
[22:18] <eroomde> he can go an sit on the naughty step for 24 hours
[22:18] <m0psi> gosh, never seen the kicking thing before :-) seems like I should scroll up a bit
[22:19] <Randomskk> m0psi: so you could send the position and alt a few times
[22:19] <eroomde> i've never kicked anyone before, infact
[22:19] <Randomskk> then send it along with all the other data
[22:19] <arko> wow
[22:19] <eroomde> in about 6 years on this channel
[22:19] <Randomskk> then sent position and alt again
[22:19] <Willdude123> What happened there?
[22:19] <arko> we kick each other for fun all the time in other channels
[22:19] <Randomskk> 24 hours is fairly long without a warning but w/e
[22:19] <Randomskk> Willdude123: Laurenceb was out of line
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[22:19] <arko> ^^
[22:19] <Randomskk> ed has finished a bottle of wine
[22:19] <eroomde> Laurenceb has been asked on several occassions, politely and civily, not to be an idiot
[22:19] <m0psi> so, alternate sentences?
[22:19] <arko> he's still in the room
[22:19] <Randomskk> yes I know
[22:20] <Willdude123> It was off topic, yeah.
[22:20] <eroomde> and explicitly said the next instance of dickishness will result in a kick
[22:20] <m0psi> that is news to me, i thought it is vanilla.. same thing all the time
[22:20] <Randomskk> m0psi: what are you referring to in that last sentence?
[22:20] <Randomskk> same telemetry all the time?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> anyways um
[22:20] <Randomskk> you are allowed to alternate between sentences
[22:20] <Randomskk> which can be handy to ensure you get a position fix fairly regularly
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, do you have like the possibility to fly at sunrise or sunset in the UK?
[22:20] <Randomskk> because as you point out, a single bit error will destroy the thing, so longer sentences are much less likely to get through
[22:20] <eroomde> yes
[22:20] <m0psi> randomskk; referring to alternate sentences
[22:21] <mrShrimp> In response to what people said to me about LiPo batteries: What about LiFePO4? The RC community seems to think they are more stable temperature-wise than other Li-ion batteries.
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> DFS once said to me it won't be a problem to launch still in the dark
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:21] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:21] <Randomskk> mrShrimp: honestly lipo works fine
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> was there a sunrise/sunset flight already?
[22:21] <Randomskk> at like -43
[22:21] <eroomde> we have done in the past
[22:21] <eroomde> eg for dawn launches
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:21] <Randomskk> lifepo4 will probably work too but just lipo is okay
[22:21] <Randomskk> also payload insides tend to stay plenty warm anyway
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> was that just for cool photos or other experiments as well?
[22:21] <eroomde> mainly photos :)
[22:21] <mrShrimp> hm, ok.
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> :) yeah
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw payload temp
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> ours got -18°C on the inside as the least
[22:22] <daveake> One of mine flew through sunset, but only because I was late :p
[22:22] <eroomde> that's OK
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> probably due to the powershot running
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:22] <m0psi> so, habhug allows two descriptions?
[22:22] <Randomskk> yes
[22:22] <m0psi> and the tracker alternates
[22:22] <m0psi> clever
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> ultimate lithiums aren't affected in voltage
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> as I have seen in our tea room freezer at uni
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:22] <m0psi> so, the short one to get the 'must have', and the next one is 'nice to have'
[22:23] <mrShrimp> Doesn't the capacity suffer at lower temperatures though?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> that might be
[22:23] <fsphil> hehe, habhug
[22:23] <mrShrimp> I should probably add some sort of safety circuit then, because I am running my camera and my tx board off the same battery.
[22:23] <m0psi> didn't see that fsphil :-) good spot
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, do you remember the ham who came in here on March 7 and said he met me at the landing?
[22:24] <fsphil> you've got quite a memory for dates Lunar_Lander
[22:24] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: vaguely yes
[22:24] <fsphil> I don't remember what I did yesterday
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> I just remember it because I had to check it on zeusbot
[22:24] <fsphil> ah
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[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> he said to me that in his opinion the NTX2 drifts too much
[22:25] <Randomskk> lol
[22:25] <Randomskk> tell him to do better then
[22:25] <fsphil> a well insulated ntx2 is solid
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] <daveake> indeed
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> I had some foam that I wanted to stuff behind the NTX2
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> but I left it
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> what he suggested to me now is that he wants to supply a Vaisala transmitter with a mixer, to bring it from 403 to 433 MHz
[22:27] <bertrik> IIRC, costyn just filled his payload box with these little foam balls
[22:27] <Upu> haha Lunar_Lander use an LMT2 then in that case
[22:28] <Upu> but sure it drifts but its not "alot" considering
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah he had some ideas
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> like this one
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> or having ATV on the balloon
[22:28] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: someone tried that, but they where not able to tune it much above 420mhz
[22:28] <Upu> LMT2 doesn't drift at all really but they are alot more expensive
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:29] <fsphil> besides the vaisala is higher power
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:29] <fsphil> you couldn't use it as an ISM device
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> he said that he can like back it with his license
[22:29] <Willdude123> Evening Upu.
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> that we can use these other TX devices
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[22:30] Nick change: Laurence2 -> Laurenceb__
[22:31] <fsphil> what would you do with the extra power?
[22:31] <Upu> evening Willdude123
[22:32] Laurenceb_ (Laurence@host86-177-214-199.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:32] <Laurenceb__> sup
[22:32] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Trollence
[22:33] <Willdude123> !op ^
[22:33] <Upu> its in hand Willdude123
[22:33] <Upu> Laurence don't please
[22:35] <Upu> so still looking for a project Willdude123 ?
[22:35] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:36] #highaltitude: mode change '+b *!*@*vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk' by eroomde!~ed@kraken.habhub.org
[22:36] <Willdude123> Kinda.
[22:36] <Willdude123> I might get an NXT.
[22:36] <Upu> NTX2
[22:36] <arko> those are fun
[22:36] <Upu> oh NXT
[22:36] <Upu> Lego ?
[22:36] <arko> yeah
[22:36] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[22:36] Laurenceb kicked from #highaltitude by eroomde: Laurenceb
[22:36] <m0psi> I missed the looking for project bit Wildude123. What's the scoop? have you just finished a project?
[22:37] <cuddykid> now that was an interesting noise my IRC client made
[22:37] Trollence kicked from #highaltitude by eroomde: Trollence
[22:37] <cuddykid> ha
[22:37] <arko> haha
[22:37] <Upu> I'd love some Lego
[22:37] <stilldavid> cuddykid: explosions, or is that just mine?
[22:37] <Willdude123> It's a long story, but basically, I can't do high altitude ballooning.
[22:37] <Upu> more lego
[22:37] <Upu> I still have a huge amount at my parents
[22:37] <cuddykid> stilldavid: explosions yup
[22:38] <Willdude123> Upu, what do you mean?
[22:38] <m0psi> ah
[22:38] <arko> i customized mine to do "FIRST BLOOD"
[22:38] <cuddykid> what did Laurence do?
[22:38] <arko> then bans get "MONSTER KILLLL"
[22:38] <Upu> Oh basically I grew up with Lego I have huge amounts of it still
[22:38] <arko> <3 kvirc
[22:38] <chrisstubbs> damm i miss lego. you can never get enough!
[22:38] <Upu> sadly because I'm old
[22:38] <Willdude123> Oh.
[22:38] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:38] <Upu> we didn't have the mindstorms and NXT stuff
[22:38] <m0psi> low alt (e.g. negative)? Wildude123
[22:39] <Upu> I'm going to get the wife and make a baby so I can buy it that stuff then legitimately play with it
[22:39] <arko> i was a kid when the first ones came out, they were great to get into robotics, had it running on my win95 machine
[22:39] <arko> Upu haha
[22:39] <fsphil> Upu: this plan may have some negative side effects
[22:39] <fsphil> aah win95
[22:39] <Upu> I'm lying actually we had something that predated Mindstorms and NXT at school, I linked it to a BBC B
[22:39] <Willdude123> Upu: Good luck, have fun at both stages of that ;-)
[22:39] <Upu> had an optical sensor on it
[22:39] <fsphil> running on a 486 with a CGA graphics card
[22:40] <Upu> I made it read a simple bar code on a credit card thing
[22:40] <fsphil> most of the dialog windows where too tall for the display
[22:40] <arko> good times
[22:40] <fsphil> and I couldn't see the OK, Cancel or Apply buttons
[22:40] <arko> XP
[22:40] <fsphil> I was still using Amiga in 95
[22:41] <arko> they werent bad back then
[22:42] <m0psi> ok, I've shortened the sentence significantly: $$$$$WASP,0,198:96:72,,,0,0,23.0,24.3,39.9
[22:42] <Randomskk> don't forget your checksum ;)
[22:42] <Randomskk> also 198:96:72 definitely isn't a time :P
[22:42] <m0psi> yes, it iwll be there
[22:42] <m0psi> sprintf(txBuffer, "$$$$$WASP,%u,%02u:%02u:%02d,%s,%s,%u,%u,%s,%s,%s",
[22:42] <m0psi> record1.sequence_no, record1.hour, record1.minute, record1.second,
[22:42] <m0psi> trim(latString), trim(longString), record1.altitude, record1.velocity,
[22:42] <m0psi> internalTemperatureString, externalTemperatureString, externalHumidityString);
[22:42] <Upu> I spy TinyGPS with no lock
[22:42] <m0psi> yep
[22:42] <fsphil> uninitialised variables?
[22:43] <m0psi> not real data, just serial
[22:43] <m0psi> so, i'm ready to do the habhut
[22:43] tony_ (577fc485@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.127.196.133) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:45] <eroomde> 'do the habhut'
[22:45] Action: eroomde imagines something like the harlem shake
[22:45] <Randomskk> I prefer 'habhug' I think
[22:45] <eroomde> dan used to like that
[22:45] <eroomde> something about being smothered in latex
[22:45] <eroomde> didn;t enquire further
[22:45] <arko> lol
[22:45] <Randomskk> hah
[22:45] <m0psi> hub, hut, hug ...
[22:46] <eroomde> something for the whole family
[22:46] <fsphil> habhag
[22:46] <eroomde> the wiked witch of the wet
[22:46] <fsphil> not if she's wearing her habhat
[22:47] <Randomskk> habhaha
[22:48] <arko> what the hab is going on here?
[22:48] <m0psi> wayyyy off topic! :-)
[22:48] <arko> if there is anything that needs renaming, it's floater
[22:48] <Randomskk> floater is great
[22:48] <chrisstubbs> oh please, iver hab enough of this
[22:48] <eroomde> agreed
[22:48] <Randomskk> why would you rename that
[22:48] <arko> haha
[22:49] <arko> "george left a floater in the atlantic"
[22:49] <arko> ok ok
[22:49] <arko> off topic :P
[22:49] <Randomskk> "oh man my floater is halfway to france!"
[22:49] <m0psi> DL-fldigi needs renaming !! please
[22:49] <arko> hahaha!
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> m0psi, have you made your payload document yet?
[22:49] <eroomde> i also like the google translate efforts on the blog posts of f6agv
[22:49] <fsphil> it may become an issue if nasa start to do balloons on the outer planets
[22:49] <eroomde> 'The Sky above Cambridge is full of balls!'
[22:49] <m0psi> that is what i want to do next
[22:49] <arko> hahahah!!! oh man
[22:49] <fsphil> dl-fldigi .. someone at the conf pronounces it as fligi
[22:49] <arko> google translate
[22:50] <arko> im going to make a branch
[22:50] <eroomde> i have noticed dl-fldigi gets mispronounced a lot at conferences, now you mention it
[22:50] <arko> call it dlhlihdidfhfdilfhfiifilfdihlfidgi
[22:50] <eroomde> the best i heard was 'flaji-daji'
[22:50] <fsphil> dl-hab-digi-modem-upload-decoder
[22:50] <Randomskk> I guess people just make up names
[22:50] <arko> i think it's the first thing i asked eroomde when i picked him up
[22:50] <Randomskk> when it's otherwise annoying
[22:50] <arko> "so how do you say this?"
[22:50] <eroomde> you checked that i was eroomde first
[22:50] <eroomde> i think
[22:51] <arko> and how to say Upu
[22:51] <eroomde> rather than some random bloke having a coffee at an airstrip in LA
[22:51] <fsphil> ou-poo
[22:51] <eroomde> oh yes!
[22:51] <Upu> You - poo
[22:51] <eroomde> upper-nought
[22:51] <arko> i say You-pee-you
[22:51] <arko> but it's You-poo
[22:51] <arko> haha
[22:51] <Upu> its short for Upuaut which is an egyptian god pronounced "Wep-a-whet"
[22:51] <Upu> bow before me
[22:51] Action: arko bows in fear
[22:51] <fsphil> that's like the worse Stargate bad guy ever
[22:52] <Upu> lol
[22:52] <arko> LOL!
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[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, quick PM?
[23:01] <Upu> shoot
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[23:06] <eroomde> guaranteed fast typer ^
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:10] <fsphil> I can type really fast. slower if it needs to make sense though
[23:11] <fsphil> the FEC used in English can only handle so many errors
[23:11] <Randomskk> quite a few though
[23:11] <Randomskk> only about one bit per character of useful information
[23:11] <fsphil> teenagers are really pushing new territory in that area of research though
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:12] <Randomskk> but it takes about 4.7 bits per letter
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> Upuaut 2 was a german robot used in the cheops pyramid
[23:12] <Randomskk> so in theory you should be able to get something like one in four wrong
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:12] <Randomskk> uh, more like one in four right.
[23:13] <fsphil> I read that as Cheapos Pyramid. Was wondering if that was the Lidl of ancient egypt
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:13] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHE0Ibz19YI
[23:13] <eroomde> my tenuous Erlkoenig reference
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[23:14] <fsphil> I wasn't sure what that was until he started playing
[23:14] <Erlkoenig> noooo not again
[23:14] <fsphil> how is he doing that
[23:14] <arko> wait what
[23:14] <arko> is this Erlkoenig that Erlkoenig?
[23:15] <eroomde> dudley moore spoof
[23:15] <Erlkoenig> wat?
[23:15] <eroomde> http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20679857RaSFFtMp?h1=Dudley+Moore-+Erlk%C3%B6nig
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[23:15] <arko> this reference goes over my head
[23:15] <eroomde> arko: no
[23:15] <fsphil> I'm not sure he has any bones in his fingers
[23:16] <eroomde> erlonig is a poem by gothe
[23:16] <arko> oh
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> also prototype cars are called that way
[23:16] <eroomde> about a kid being killed by a spirity being called erlkonig
[23:16] <eroomde> it's a song by schubert
[23:16] <eroomde> and list did a pinao arrangement
[23:16] <fsphil> he looks alarmingly like Moss from the IT Crowd
[23:16] <arko> wow ok
[23:17] <eroomde> liszt*
[23:17] <Erlkoenig> (00:16:03) eroomde: erlonig is a poem by gothe <- exactly
[23:18] <Erlkoenig> and en evil spirit always makes for a good nickname
[23:18] <eroomde> v good ^
[23:18] <arko> none are more helplessly enslaved than those who don't party 24/7
[23:18] <arko> - gothe
[23:19] <eroomde> i hate my life
[23:19] <eroomde> - goth
[23:19] <arko> bbbaaaahhhhhhh
[23:19] <arko> -goat
[23:20] <fsphil> that goat thinks it's a sheep?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yeah a Test Mule is called Erlkoenig in Germany
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> an experimental car
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> as I said
[23:21] <eroomde> odd name
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> I think Mercedes-Benz coined that name
[23:22] <Erlkoenig> yes that's correc
[23:22] <Erlkoenig> t
[23:22] <Erlkoenig> but i didn't know that when i chose my nickname
[23:23] <eroomde> well nvm
[23:24] <eroomde> we have room for dodgy dark supernatural characters on this channel
[23:24] <eroomde> a vacency just opened up infact
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[23:33] <daveake> We also have a vacancy for a long-term newbie. Last one lasted 5 years. :p
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[23:34] <daveake> A record I suspect you will always hold :)
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[23:39] <cuddykid> daveake: impressive on those image downlinks - going to stop at 2 radios downlinking or could you add some more?
[23:40] <Randomskk> how are you justifying it to ofcom exactly? :P
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[23:40] <cuddykid> surely it's all legal - just multiple transmitters (hogging :) ) the band :P
[23:41] <Randomskk> you might think so
[23:41] <Randomskk> ofcom might not :P
[23:41] <cuddykid> true
[23:41] <cuddykid> silly ofcom
[23:42] <cuddykid> spoiling the fun
[23:42] <Randomskk> if you had ten NTX2s all on the same frequency, for instance, transmitting the same thing
[23:42] <Randomskk> that is functionally rather similar to a 100mW transmitter
[23:42] <Randomskk> okay, so you need some synchronisation hardware, but...
[23:43] <cuddykid> think realistically they would ever pick it up if it just happens for the odd couple of hours every now and then (when a launch is occurring)
[23:43] <daveake> cuddykid 2 is enough :). We'll struggle getting enough listeners on more, plus I'd need to go to the rfm
[23:43] <cuddykid> not sure how these things work
[23:43] <Randomskk> cuddykid: oh yes, for sure, I doubt they'd notice or care
[23:44] <daveake> It is of course 2 separate payloads on the same line
[23:44] <daveake> <cough>
[23:44] <cuddykid> :P
[23:44] <Randomskk> :P
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[23:44] <Randomskk> I think that might still be grey area to be honest
[23:44] <Randomskk> but w/e
[23:44] Action: cuddykid looks away
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[23:49] <fsphil> ofcom won't care unless you interfere with someone with money
[23:50] <cuddykid> even then, I guess it would be very difficult to trace the source
[23:50] <daveake> Good job those signals wouldn't include GPS co-ords of the source then
[23:51] <Randomskk> :P
[23:51] <Randomskk> anyway direction finding is easy
[23:52] <Randomskk> but I guess cuddykid meant "finding the person responsible"
[23:52] <daveake> yup
[23:52] <cuddykid> yep, along with, by the time they get around to investigating the balloon will be on the ground
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[23:53] <daveake> Next flight $$ChuckNorris, just in case
[23:53] <cuddykid> unless it has some chinese magic in it
[23:53] <cuddykid> followed up by the chase limo ;)
[23:53] <daveake> ah yeah :)
[23:53] <cuddykid> with SuBo listening in from afar
[23:53] <daveake> that was funny
[23:54] <cuddykid> it was meant to air last summer.. but as far as I'm aware it still hasn't aired - guess it probably will never air now
[23:54] <cuddykid> (not a bad thing)
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 21 2013