highaltitude.log.20130315

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[01:10] <HANoob> has anyone had any luck with the mylar "space blankets" for keeping electronics warm?
[01:12] <arko> http://abstrusegoose.com/504
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[02:06] <arko> http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl2
[02:06] <arko> robot talk going on at jpl
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[06:07] <arko> eroomde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt2vQdgpZZg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[06:08] <arko> Im not a fan of 99% of 3d printers, but its still neat
[06:30] <Upu> ping KF7FER Hey Brad you about ?
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[07:51] <eroomde> morn
[07:52] <eroomde> arko: what's wrongotron with the nexus?
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[08:19] <UpuWork> morning all
[08:22] <eroomde> morning UpuWork
[08:22] <UpuWork> my Gmail is empty this morning
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[08:22] <UpuWork> I wonder if it can stay that way all day ?
[08:23] <eroomde> close down the tab
[08:23] <UpuWork> lol
[08:23] <eroomde> then you can ensure it is
[08:23] <eroomde> i get so much pleasure at work when someone comes in saying 'did you get me email? I sent it an hour ago...'
[08:23] <eroomde> 'nope'
[08:24] <UpuWork> lol
[08:24] <eroomde> if it's important, come and ask, if it's not, it can wait for only twice-a-day email checking
[08:25] <UpuWork> mail can be very distracting
[08:25] <eroomde> yeah
[08:25] <eroomde> the bong and the bouncing icon are so disruptive
[08:25] <eroomde> if you're in the middle of concentrating or somwthing
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[08:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> hi all
[08:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> is Steve here ?
[08:36] <UpuWork> Rocketboy ? Not at the moment
[08:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> i have just ordered ballons, but i dont know how much add for shipping
[08:37] <SP9UOB_Tom> hi Upu
[08:37] <UpuWork> Sure he'll let you know
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[08:38] <costyn> fsphil: thanks :)
[08:41] <SP9UOB_Tom> CU all - time to work :-)
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[08:45] <x-f> holy quit message, batman
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[10:02] <gonzo__> if anyone is interested, there is a yaesu FT790 for sale in radcom. A bit expensive at £125, but if anyone is interested, I'll pass on the details
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[10:21] <cuddykid> some rather cheap cable ties (though only 10cm) -> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250943040873&clk_rvr_id=458973152552
[10:21] <eroomde> cheap cable ties are never worth it
[10:21] <eroomde> enever
[10:21] <eroomde> ever
[10:21] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[10:21] <fsphil> agreed
[10:21] <fsphil> bought some recently, they have no grip at all
[10:21] <cuddykid> that's a good point
[10:21] <eroomde> they're the worst invention since gas chambers
[10:21] <cuddykid> lol
[10:21] <fsphil> you close them tight, and they unzip a bit
[10:21] <jonsowman> bold
[10:22] <eroomde> especially in cold weather, the heads just snap clean off the second you try and tighten them
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[10:22] <eroomde> they're like duct tape
[10:22] <eroomde> find a good supplier
[10:22] <eroomde> buy a lifetime supply
[10:22] <UpuWork> ahhhh duct tape
[10:22] <cuddykid> ah yes, I have noticed quality diff in duct tape
[10:22] <UpuWork> that stuff i get is epic
[10:23] <UpuWork> expensive
[10:23] <UpuWork> but amazing and pink to boot
[10:23] <eroomde> good stuff that rips nicely and cleanly but is sticky is a treat
[10:23] <eroomde> canford audio has a large discussion of duct tape
[10:23] <eroomde> including selling the stuff that the bbc tech team picked after trying about 200 brands
[10:24] <UpuWork> http://www.gaffatape.com/Fluorescent-Gaffer-Cloth-Tape-1/default.aspx
[10:24] <UpuWork> thats what I use
[10:24] <fsphil> plus you can generate x-rays with good duct tape
[10:24] <UpuWork> its quite heavy
[10:24] <eroomde> http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/52-311_GAFFER-TAPE-Double-sided-50mm-reel-of-50m
[10:24] <eroomde> read the description
[10:25] <costyn> fsphil: haha yea x-rays
[10:25] <nick_> fsphil: really?
[10:25] <costyn> fsphil: i was quite amazed by that
[10:25] Action: nick_ thought it was sellotape
[10:25] <costyn> nick_: you might be right
[10:25] <nick_> You need something that kinda snaps, not stretches, no?
[10:25] <fsphil> scotch tape, yes
[10:26] Action: nick_ sends an apology to 3M
[10:26] <nick_> Of course, scotch tape
[10:26] <eroomde> My toolbox as standard has black Type A gaffa and white insulating tape
[10:27] Action: nick_ is now cut off from the 3M gravy train
[10:27] <eroomde> then there's a cupboard full of other tapes
[10:27] <eroomde> adhesive retroreflective tape is awesome but pricy
[10:27] <nick_> Although my in laws probably still have half a basement full of 3M stuff
[10:27] <eroomde> but super good for hab cases
[10:27] <eroomde> just the thing for hunting for a payload with a torth in the dark
[10:27] <fsphil> retroreflective would be great for a payload box
[10:27] <eroomde> torch*
[10:27] <fsphil> searching in the dark would be easier than daytime
[10:27] <daveake> nick_ My father-in-law worked for 3M. Best not to mention "Sellotape" in his presence :)
[10:27] <eroomde> you can even get it in garish colors
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[10:27] <fsphil> a sticky topic?
[10:27] <eroomde> like pink and orange
[10:28] <nick_> Both my in laws did
[10:28] <Babs> Interestingly, the x-ray thang only happens n a vacuum http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/22/scotch-tape-emits-x-rays-film-at-11/ - Now, if only we did something in this forum that frequently involved operating in a near vacuum. Oh.
[10:28] <daveake> I put the retroreflective ones on payloads that might be in the dark when I get there
[10:28] <nick_> For a combined 70 years or something crazy
[10:28] <daveake> So easy to see in the dark with a torch
[10:28] <daveake> Especially an Upu-tastic jobbie
[10:29] <UpuWork> I got some of that tape too
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[10:29] <nick_> Old people and their working at one place their whole life are crazy
[10:29] <daveake> Longest I've managed was 7 years, unless you count "working for myself" which is 21 years so far
[10:30] <fsphil> I'm still on my first job
[10:30] <fsphil> though one person can only take so much VB
[10:30] <UpuWork> I've only had 2 jobs
[10:30] <eroomde> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLAS-retro-Reflective-Tape-50-metre-roll-/271163316314?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f2297d85a
[10:30] <daveake> That's very true
[10:30] <UpuWork> well not entirely true
[10:30] <eroomde> super cheap for what it is
[10:30] <UpuWork> two proper jobs
[10:30] <daveake> You have 2 right now UpuWork
[10:31] <UpuWork> this is true
[10:31] <eroomde> 3
[10:31] <fsphil> PICAXE support guy now
[10:31] <UpuWork> My first job I left as the boss was a sociopathic loony
[10:31] <UpuWork> haha
[10:32] <daveake> Hah. I left my 2nd job when my boss claimed my program was his
[10:32] <UpuWork> Ah am the boss this time round so if I have a problem with the sociopathic boss this time I suspect I have larger issues
[10:33] <daveake> lol
[10:33] <daveake> After starting to work for myself, I became schizophrenic for the company
[10:34] <costyn> fsphil: picaxe support?
[10:34] <daveake> hah
[10:34] <fsphil> someone needs to support them through their recovery
[10:34] <daveake> Well someone needs to do it for the raft of PICAXE questions we're expecting anytime now
[10:35] <costyn> fsphil: haha
[10:44] <Brace> that canford stuff looks good, bought a roll of gaffa tape from homebase a while back and it was useless
[10:45] <Brace> wouldn't stick to anything
[10:45] <fsphil> agreed on the homebase stuff
[10:46] <fsphil> I've been using stuff from gaffertape.com lately, works well
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[11:01] <eroomde> yep, the canford stuff is good
[11:01] <eroomde> they are the default supplier for roadies
[11:01] <eroomde> so they don't sell crap, they have a reputation to keep up
[11:01] <eroomde> they also sell 19" rackmount everything
[11:01] <eroomde> because that's the format most flight cases come in
[11:02] <eroomde> you can get 19" rackmount fridges and wine bottle holders from them
[11:03] <gonzo__> I saw their 19" rack wine rack. Thought that was good
[11:03] <eroomde> http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/11-231_CANFORD-RACKWINE-Winerack-rack-mount-3U-black
[11:04] <gonzo__> I don't have any spare 19" space in the house racks for one. Shame
[11:04] <gonzo__> (Fitted kichens should have 19" options)
[11:05] <gonzo__> one guy I know had no need for a cooker, so when he moved into his house, he put a 6ft rack cab in the space in the kitchen
[11:08] <daveake> If anyone needs a wine rack :-) I have one of these taking up space in the garage - http://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/abs-6u/flight-case-abs-19-6u/dp/DP30781?in_merch=Featured%20Products
[11:08] <UpuWork> hmm
[11:08] <UpuWork> how deep is that ?
[11:08] <daveake> not enough
[11:08] <daveake> Well I had one 1U PC wouldn't fit
[11:08] <daveake> Everything else has been fine
[11:09] <UpuWork> if you don't want it I'll have it
[11:09] <daveake> 420mm internal depth (Without lids) & 560mm internal depth with lids
[11:09] <daveake> Sure np
[11:09] <daveake> Now, can I interest Sir in a 1U APC UPS?
[11:10] <UpuWork> batteries last replaced in 1994 ?
[11:10] <daveake> Also have a chase IOLAN 16-port serial 1U rack mount if anyone wants one
[11:10] <daveake> Yup lol
[11:10] <UpuWork> wow
[11:10] <UpuWork> chase IO not heard that name for a while
[11:10] <daveake> Well, 2004
[11:10] <UpuWork> we used them with our WYSE Unix server
[11:10] <daveake> Yeah that's the kinda thing they were for
[11:11] <daveake> Not used that in anger for years
[11:11] <gonzo__> this seems to be a trend, when you unload some junk on someone, loads more follows
[11:11] <daveake> lol
[11:11] <daveake> Sshh don't let him on to my plan :p
[11:11] <daveake> At least I binned the 1U PCs that were in it
[11:11] <UpuWork> Well we threw a skip load of those Chase IO's out years ago
[11:12] <gonzo__> that is a nice flight case dave
[11:12] <UpuWork> mine
[11:12] <daveake> too late !
[11:12] <gonzo__> shame it can't be used for hab work
[11:12] <UpuWork> well thats what you think
[11:12] <daveake> Yeah I did think of that. Too big
[11:12] <gonzo__> hehe, you're welcome.
[11:12] <UpuWork> its my case for a PC104 based payload
[11:12] <daveake> lol
[11:13] Action: daveake awaits link to "USA Pico landing"
[11:13] <gonzo__> space for a coupe opf car batts too
[11:13] <gonzo__> didn't someone joke about a russian one recently
[11:13] <daveake> I get plenty of hours from those 7Ah SLAs now I switched to a nice new Intel m/b
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[11:13] <fsphil> I've an old PC104 ARM-based computer. could fly that :)
[11:14] <daveake> Yeah that was OdePHd's PC104 exploding above thinycovski
[11:14] <gonzo__> my server used to be a c7 proc, with dc supply. I could get 4hrs from a pair of 7ah sla's
[11:14] <daveake> fsphil Sorry needs to be an 80's 8-bit CPU
[11:15] <fsphil> speaking off, I must try wiring the GPS module to the 64
[11:15] <daveake> This gets,erm, can't remember but osmewhere around 10 hours
[11:16] <gonzo__> 7ah of lipo would be heavy but not unfeasable. Thoutgh lipo have low temp issues don't thay?
[11:18] <daveake> Do you think a payload that needs a 7Ah battery will get cold??
[11:18] <gonzo__> you could have a point
[11:18] <daveake> :)
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[11:59] <IRC_ukhas> RUTE anyone?
[12:02] <HixWork> Royal Mail need a kick in the nads!
[12:03] <daveake> One of many targets
[12:03] <eroomde> greetings Oliver
[12:03] <fsphil> Royal Fail
[12:04] <daveake> FedEx managed to lose something I sent. A 47kg something.
[12:04] <daveake> (no not a PC104 payload)
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[12:04] <IRC_ukhas> Muha muha. How can you "lose" 47 kg?
[12:04] <fsphil> Slimfast
[12:05] <daveake> You'd have to ask them
[12:05] <daveake> lol
[12:05] <IRC_ukhas> I saw inside their mainframe once
[12:05] <daveake> I doubt it's hiding there
[12:07] <HixWork> I'm thinking of posting myself a large incediary device, so when they lose that it causes them an internal problem...
[12:07] <IRC_ukhas> Ah. Handwarmers
[12:08] <costyn> HixWork: that sounds perfectly legal and moral :P
[12:08] <HixWork> thinking more along the lines of depot-warmer
[12:08] <HixWork> costyn, you've not had the pleasure of Royal Fail have you?
[12:09] <costyn> HixWork: no, we've our own version here though; although they don't lose packages often, they really do their best to be as customer unfriendly as possible
[12:09] <HixWork> heh
[12:09] <HixWork> our excell at both elements
[12:09] <HixWork> *ours
[12:09] <costyn> HixWork: especially when sending something. If you want to send a 2kg package which is 2.013kg, they will charge you for the 2-5kg rate.. no leniency whatsoever
[12:10] <HixWork> dont put the stap on it <2.01 then
[12:10] <HixWork> *stamp
[12:10] <IRC_ukhas> The picaxes in the scales just can't manage
[12:10] <Darkside> wat
[12:11] <costyn> HixWork: well you bring it to the shop where they have the machine that weighs it and prints out a stamp. there's not much option unfortunately
[12:11] <costyn> HixWork: I actually had to open up my box, take out some (less essential) items, close it up, and bring it back
[12:11] <fsphil> should do your best to make sure you're near the top of each weight bracket
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[12:11] <HixWork> add lead shot to suit
[12:11] <costyn> fsphil: of course, but sometimes you gamble and lose, when your own scale says it's under 2kg and then you get there and the postoffice scales disagree
[12:12] <HixWork> or loose mercury
[12:12] <HixWork> if only you could send STUFF via SSH
[12:13] <IRC_ukhas> I do have a 3D printer, that's getting close HixWork.
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[12:14] <costyn> HixWork: gawd... that would be a huge, if we had transporters. the effects would be unimaginable
[12:15] <HixWork> I've a good mind to collect some dog turds and mail em to customer services as a token of my appreciation
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[12:17] <griffonbot> @daveake: Blog post on my BBC "Cracking The Code" flight http://t.co/p2kscqDvyv #raspbery_pi #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/312537921808920578]
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[13:42] <eroomde> H/window 34
[13:43] <lz1dev> :O
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[13:46] <eroomde> i am an advanced-level irssi user
[13:47] <x-f> why don't you use alt-a or alt-arrow?
[13:47] <eroomde> i do special commands that the interpreter just prints into the channel because it is so impressed by them
[13:47] <eroomde> because i wanted to go to window 34?
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[13:49] <lz1dev> im impressed that you have 34 windows
[13:50] <eroomde> lots of pm love
[13:50] <eroomde> + they accrue after weeks of uptime on the irssi server
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[14:16] <mfa298> I think I tend to start clearing out the irssi windows after it gets over 10 as changing to them juts gets annoying
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[14:16] <daveake> I don't have that many IRC friends :p
[14:16] <mfa298> same with screen (although I have been known to have screen running inside screen on occasion)
[14:17] <nick_> mfa298: why is more than 10 windows annoying?
[14:17] <mfa298> I tend to use the <esc> number to change, once you go over 10 it needs more key presses
[14:17] <nick_> No
[14:17] <nick_> Esc q is 11
[14:18] <nick_> esc w is 12
[14:18] <nick_> and so on
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[14:18] <mfa298> I don't think I'd found that, you learn something new every day.
[14:18] <eroomde> oliver, why the confusing name?
[14:18] <eroomde> those are sort of reserved keywords in thsi context
[14:18] Action: nick_ realises he's just doubled mfa298's irc universe.
[14:18] <Brace> mine too
[14:18] <mfa298> usually once I've got that far half the windows are old anyway so should have been closed
[14:19] <eroomde> i tend to let the remote servers keep stuff and stay on for long periods
[14:19] <nick_> I've screwed myself over a little with irssi
[14:19] <eroomde> and restart my own pc quite a lot
[14:19] <nick_> My first 8 windows are dalnet channels
[14:19] <nick_> I kinda want to ditch two of them.
[14:20] <nick_> But my brain is too attached to the mappings of number/letter to my freenode ones afterwards.
[14:20] <mfa298> eroomde: same, screen and irssi on a stable server always seems the best option for IRC, then you can connect to it where ever you are.
[14:20] <eroomde> zackly
[14:21] <eroomde> excpet new machines
[14:21] <eroomde> as i wont have the ssh key
[14:21] <eroomde> schmetails
[14:21] <mfa298> nick_: in irssi it is possible to configure in your .irssi config which channels are on which window
[14:21] <nick_> But I don't want gaps
[14:21] <mfa298> you'll just have to find some new channels to fill in the gaps
[14:21] <nick_> For some reason they seem wrong.
[14:21] <nick_> Even though I've probably not said anything in those 2 windows in 6 months.
[14:22] <nick_> Although mabybe I should assign them anyway. Occassionally I lose my connection to dalnet and get kicked off my nick, then I can't get into one of the channels and it shifts everything -1.
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[15:35] <HixWork> "void wait(unsigned long delaytime) // Arduino Delay doesn't get CPU Speeds below 8Mhz"
[15:36] <HixWork> does this mean that delay won't work with 328 running at 8MHz?
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[15:37] <UpuWork> no delay works fine down to 8Mhz
[15:37] <HixWork> ah oki so purely sub 8MHZ then UpuWork
[15:38] <HixWork> i.e 1.8v applications
[15:38] <UpuWork> that is just my cludge fix to make a delay work reasonably well with sub 8Mhz CPUs
[15:38] <UpuWork> yes
[15:38] <UpuWork> don't use it for anything critical
[15:38] <UpuWork> timing wise
[15:38] <HixWork> ahhh enlightened
[15:38] <UpuWork> it should be ok but its very simple
[15:39] <HixWork> i'm still trying my best to get my grey cells around the interrupt stuff, hopefully i'll crack that soon
[15:39] <daveake> Yeah interrupts for the win; delay() is for losers :p
[15:39] <HixWork> heh
[15:40] <HixWork> i can see the benefits, just not the light. yet
[15:41] <HixWork> pastebin is ahving a Friday afternoon crisis
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[15:43] <eroomde> yes there's a whole word of power saving opportunity on an avr if you do sleeps with actual sleep and various other powersaving things
[15:44] <eroomde> but on a hab tracker it's probably already a much smaller consumer than something like the gps, so spending loads of time on reducing the avr power might not actually get you much of a percentage dent in power consumption
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[15:47] <eroomde> a radio implemented as 2x class C amplifiers, one each at the mark and the space frequency, might be a way of getting radio power right down
[15:47] <eroomde> assuming you want to stick to 2FSK, this is
[15:48] <eroomde> they can each be about 70% efficient
[15:49] <eroomde> but the weight of such a thing might be worse than just adding another AAA
[15:51] <gonzo__> how would that work?
[15:52] <gonzo__> surely just feeding a single PA with the fsk, in the usual way, would be the same ?
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[15:53] <daveake> I'm not sure all the power saving is worthwhile for HAB. If it's a long flight it's going to get cold at night and you may end up generating heat just to keep it warm-ish, and youve probably got a healthy weight budget anyway. A pico flight a few km up is different as you've got little weight capacity and much higher temperatures.
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[15:56] <eroomde> daveake: more thought experiment than engineering
[15:56] <eroomde> gonzo__: because PAs that can do multiple frequencies are less efficient
[15:56] <costyn> daveake: and so far, most PICOs have either crashed or gone out of range.:)
[15:56] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] <costyn> (crashed as in uC crash)
[15:57] <daveake> eroomde sure it's enticing to want to do it
[15:58] <gonzo__> eroomde, but you are not going to get the tuning of a PA so tight that you can't get a few 100hz of shift though it
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[16:05] <eroomde> that is true
[16:07] <eroomde> you're quite right
[16:12] <gonzo__> PAs that will do really wide band (we have some that will do 100-500MHz) are really inefficeint
[16:23] <arko> morning
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[16:33] <HixWork> any flights this weekend?
[16:35] <arko> two weekends from now I fly :D
[16:36] <HixWork> i reckon i'd struggle to pick you up from here arko ;p
[16:36] <arko> just come to the US
[16:36] <arko> no big deal
[16:37] <HixWork> I'd love to see american immigration going through a bag of SDR dongles, yagis, bare hacked pcbs and other HAB gear :)
[16:37] <HixWork> they're anal enough just hauling yourself intot the country
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[16:41] <arko> yeah, i have no idea how im going to make it to UKHAS
[16:42] <arko> with all these rf parts and things
[16:42] <arko> electronics
[16:42] <arko> i plan to buy my tickets to the UK soon :)
[16:43] <gonzo__> doubt getting into UK will be much iof a problem
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[16:43] <arko> you guys seem chill
[16:44] <arko> if you have ever seen that south park episode with the TSA
[16:44] <arko> that's really the US
[16:46] <HixWork> word of advice arko - dont post any of it. you'll prob never see it again :)
[16:46] <arko> oh? why so?
[16:46] <HixWork> They're very laid back in internal flights, ironically
[16:46] <HixWork> Royal Fail - our postal system
[16:47] <arko> brb COFFEE TIME
[16:47] <zyp> it's been six years since I went to the US, but I can't remember they were that much worse than other countries
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[16:59] <HixWork> m'outtahere
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[17:21] <IRC_ukhas> What name am I showing up as eroomde?
[17:21] <daveake> The one you joined as and the one next to your comments?
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[17:22] <daveake> Clue:
[17:22] <daveake> IRC_ukhas (~astrobiol@94.197.127.179.threembb.co.uk) has joined #highaltitude
[17:22] <daveake> <IRC_ukhas> What name am I showing up as eroomde?
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[17:22] <IRC_ukhas> In Limechat (iPad irc app) it shows me as IRC_ukhas but I should be astrobiologist
[17:22] Nick change: daveake -> something_more_a
[17:23] <something_more_a> oops
[17:23] Nick change: something_more_a -> daveake
[17:23] <daveake> try /nick <whatever>
[17:24] <IRC_ukhas> How about now?
[17:24] <daveake> no change
[17:24] <IRC_ukhas> *rse
[17:24] <daveake> that would work
[17:24] <daveake> :p
[17:25] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[17:25] <astrobiologist> Hurray, sorry about that.
[17:26] <Laurenceb> astrobiologist: how is picaxe working for you?
[17:26] <Laurenceb> i hear its dead good
[17:26] <astrobiologist> i have one on my breadboard, to be honest I've never done much work with it
[17:27] <astrobiologist> It was easy enough to connect up, so you can play with the chips on their own if you want
[17:27] <astrobiologist> I'm sure lots of people do the same with Arduinos of course, but the temptation would be to just buy a ready made shield, no??....
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[17:28] <astrobiologist> So if you just want to spend £3 on a chip and then connect up a couple of wires, then it's a very cheap option, even for the 40pin models
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[17:42] <chrisstubbs93> does anybody have a homehub 3 on here?
[17:43] <number10> i think my one is
[17:44] <chrisstubbs93> number10: any good?
[17:45] <Laurenceb> ive got one
[17:45] <Laurenceb> or did have one
[17:45] <Laurenceb> got damaged by condensation on the man board
[17:46] <number10> it kept droppinf connection..
[17:46] <chrisstubbs93> lmao good old BT
[17:47] <number10> so i turned of auto channel selection and deselected 802.11-n
[17:47] <number10> seems ok now
[17:47] <astrobiologist> Put it on a balloon and then the moisture will boil off at high altitude?
[17:49] <number10> chrisstubbs93: i think other people have had issues with the WLAN side
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[17:51] <chrisstubbs93> their main selling point is also the weak point, should have seen that one coming
[17:52] <chrisstubbs93> well if i can get one free from tech. support its worth a go
[17:52] <Laurenceb> yes the bt homehub stuff sucks for rf performance
[17:52] <Laurenceb> i moved mine to channel 14 iirc
[17:53] <number10> i think i did 14 also
[17:54] <chrisstubbs93> ahhhhh they are running a line test.. all i want is a free homehub
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[17:59] <astrobiologist> I have 1gb fibre optic from Hyperoptic... Their hub can manage about 70mps to my laptop on wifii 'n all :-)
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[18:00] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
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[18:03] <HixPad> Anyone with experience of sending SMS from tracker. Did you have to define the message centre number? Most examples I see don't mention it
[18:04] <arko> whats the issue?
[18:05] <arko> you have a plus sign right?
[18:06] <HixPad> All sample code I've seen makes no mention of setting the message centre number so wondering how the module knows where to send the message before its routed to target phone
[18:06] <arko> you shouldn't need to
[18:07] <arko> our sms tracker does that in the backend
[18:07] <HixPad> So how does it know where the module should connect to? A mobile phone has it set in menu
[18:08] <arko> what's the cell chip?
[18:08] <arko> SIM900? or SIM908?
[18:08] <arko> or something else?
[18:08] <HixPad> A uk company called giffgaff who use O2 network
[18:09] <HixPad> Oh the module, Siemens mc55
[18:09] <daveake> HixPad Does the modem support text mode SMS or just PDU?
[18:09] <HixPad> Not sure off top of head, I would have thought so though
[18:10] <arko> both
[18:10] <arko> http://www.mobilesolutions.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/wm/siemens/MC55_56_Datasheet.pdf
[18:10] <arko> how are you interfacing to this?
[18:11] <HixPad> Serial
[18:12] <daveake> If you're using text mode there's no "message centre" number involved
[18:12] <HixPad> Ah
[18:13] <HixPad> Ok, I've been using at commands but not really sure how to implement text mode
[18:13] <daveake> You set text mode, then load the message you want to send, then tell it what number to send to
[18:14] <daveake> It's pretty easy
[18:14] <daveake> PDU OTOH is a PITA
[18:14] <arko> hmm, it's PDU that requires the center number right?
[18:15] <HixPad> AT+CMGF=1 correct for set text mode yes?
[18:15] <daveake> Yes http://www.smartposition.nl/resources/sms_pdu.html
[18:15] <daveake> Yes HixPad
[18:16] <HixPad> Hmm, something wonky then as that's what has been tried
[18:16] <daveake> http://www.diafaan.com/sms-tutorials/gsm-modem-tutorial/at-cmgf/
[18:16] <daveake> You can query the modem to see if it supports PDU mode, text mode or both
[18:16] <arko> pshh, just go text mode yo
[18:17] <arko> http://www.gsm-modem.de/sms-pdu-mode.html
[18:17] <arko> neat
[18:17] <HixPad> I'll be keeping it as simple as I can Argo
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[18:17] <HixPad> Why apple why..... arko
[18:17] <arko> lol
[18:17] <arko> im a great movie
[18:17] <HixPad> Jason
[18:17] <daveake> I'm not suggesting asking it in the code; I'm suggesting asking it *now* so you know if you can code text mode or not
[18:17] <eroomde> rent from itunes now!
[18:18] <arko> arko: the movie
[18:18] <arko> sup eroomde
[18:18] <HixPad> Not with me at the mo daveake
[18:19] <HixPad> But the serial at response should simple be ok correct?
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[18:23] <arko> page 287
[18:24] <arko> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CDgQFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.tradekey.com%252Fbrochure%252F160486-1807906-3%252Fsiemens-mc56-gsm-gprs-module-1800mhz-1900mhz-850mhz.pdf%26ei%3DoWZDUYjJF4LmqgG-jIGQAg%26usg%3DAFQjCNHZeyrqCHwyzehxqF
[18:24] <arko> sorry
[18:24] <arko> got lazy copying link
[18:24] <eroomde> arko: nothing is up
[18:24] <eroomde> i am down
[18:24] <HixPad> That the mc55 at commands book? Got that
[18:24] <eroomde> heading out shortly
[18:24] <arko> down?
[18:25] <arko> emotional? physically with reference to the center of the earth in spherical coordinates?
[18:25] <arko> HixPad: yeah, AT commands
[18:25] <arko> set mode to 1
[18:25] <arko> AT+CMGF=
[18:25] <HixPad> Cool, so it should be all good as that's what code tells it =1
[18:26] <arko> AT+CMGF=<mode>
[18:26] <HixPad> Up
[18:26] <arko> yeah
[18:26] <HixPad> Yup
[18:26] <arko> good luck
[18:26] <HixPad> Thinking beer will make it all betterer
[18:26] <arko> always does
[18:26] <HixPad> It is fri eve after all
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[18:27] <HixPad> Right decision made. Bbl
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[18:59] <Astrobiol> Testing my Blackberry IRC app... Am I coming through with astrobiol as my nickname?
[18:59] <zamabe> possibly
[18:59] <zamabe> but likely
[19:04] <craag> Astrobiol: Yep
[19:05] <Astrobiol> Thanks Craaag
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[19:18] <Upu> Evening
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[19:22] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
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[19:27] <Upu> hey Tom
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[19:32] <SP9UOB_Tom> Hi Upu
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[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:46] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AAFWeIp8JT0
[19:46] <Upu> someone please invest a few billion in those too
[19:46] <Upu> two
[19:56] <arko> LFTR
[19:56] <arko> 's
[19:56] <arko> rock
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[20:28] <fsphil> that seems quite obvious. why hasn't anyone done it before?
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[20:28] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> Astrobiologist
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[20:31] <Astrobiologist> /whois
[20:32] <arko> I is
[20:32] <fsphil> I'm not?
[20:32] <fsphil> I thought I was
[20:36] <daveake> I never have been
[20:36] <Randomskk> I remember was once.
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[20:46] <daveake> /whowas
[20:48] <fsphil> nobody knows
[20:48] <fsphil> my helium tank is emptier than I thought
[20:49] <fsphil> for some reason I thought it was half full, but it's about 10%
[20:50] <arko> is it worth buying a helium tank?
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[20:50] <fsphil> this is loaned, I'm paying a monthly fee to keep it
[20:50] <arko> ah
[20:51] <fsphil> not really worth it tbh
[20:51] <arko> it's like $600 right?
[20:51] <arko> ish
[20:51] <fsphil> haven't priced them
[20:51] <arko> i found a 200cf tank for about $600
[20:52] <Upu> Hydrogen ftw
[20:52] <fsphil> just pondering that now
[20:52] <arko> boom boom balloon
[20:52] <arko> :P
[20:52] <fsphil> it's costing me more to keep the cylinder than the value of the gas inside it
[20:52] <arko> just need to be careful is all
[20:52] <arko> yikes
[20:53] <fsphil> would hate to waste it though
[20:53] <fsphil> long weekend, might do a pico
[20:53] <arko> nice!
[20:53] <fsphil> not done one before
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[20:54] <Upu> daveake got three launches out of one £50 cylinder
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[20:54] <fsphil> h2?
[20:54] <Upu> yep
[20:54] <Upu> well £50 ish + rental and stuff
[20:54] <arko> flow regulator?
[20:54] <Upu> certainly heaps cheaper than He and better for floating etc
[20:55] <fsphil> I'll have to order up the regulator and tubes this weekend
[20:55] <Upu> we bought a lab one was about £150 I think but it paid itself off after one launch
[20:55] <fsphil> exactly
[20:55] <arko> nice
[20:55] <arko> need to look into that
[20:55] <fsphil> a pico launched tomorrow if it floated at 4km would head directly south very slowly
[20:55] <fsphil> http://habhub.org//predict/#!/uuid=7ba6104e6e914162201bc3c54ddb1268e9a503c2
[20:56] <fsphil> well out of receiver range likely
[20:56] <Upu> yep
[20:56] <Upu> always an issue with Picos
[20:56] <anerDev> hello guys ! =D
[20:56] <fsphil> evening mr.dev
[20:56] <Upu> hi there
[20:56] <fsphil> trying sunday night
[20:57] <fsphil> same but faster
[20:57] <fsphil> http://habhub.org//predict/#!/uuid=ff3543aae5265a935cfda18cf1afb305b3248631
[20:57] <fsphil> not worth it
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[20:59] <Laurenceb_> ##stm32
[20:59] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/111005_trj001.gif
[20:59] <Upu> lands on you Phil :)
[20:59] <fsphil> that green one heads straight for me
[21:00] <anerDev> but if the ballon go down on the sea, how keep it ??
[21:00] <Upu> you don't anerDev
[21:00] <fsphil> the mermaids get it
[21:00] <Upu> these are one ways
[21:00] <fsphil> they have enough to do their own launch now
[21:01] <anerDev> with a speed boat Upu ! auhhuahu
[21:01] <Upu> you joke but we have had a number of boat recoveries
[21:01] <Upu> my first launch was recovered on a boat
[21:02] <anerDev> O.0
[21:02] <anerDev> the distance from the coast ?
[21:02] <fsphil> still love that picture of the floating payload
[21:02] <anerDev> 20 km ?
[21:02] <Upu> err 8km ?
[21:02] <anerDev> very short !
[21:02] <anerDev> distance
[21:03] <fsphil> not that short
[21:03] <fsphil> try swimming it
[21:03] <anerDev> ahuauhh
[21:03] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbykWjsQrI&list=UUGkq3Q2JQhN_ChjcPPwAW3A&index=47
[21:03] <anerDev> my uncle go from my town to Eolian Island
[21:03] <anerDev> 13 km
[21:03] <anerDev> swimming
[21:03] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=155
[21:04] <Upu> this one : http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/sea.jpg
[21:04] <Upu> :)
[21:04] <fsphil> that's the one
[21:04] <Upu> that was the first image Steve pulled off
[21:04] <anerDev> like this http://youtu.be/94AECQPxUOw?t=1m6s
[21:04] <anerDev> auhahu
[21:04] <Upu> theirs was intentional
[21:05] <anerDev> yes !
[21:05] <anerDev> so, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWrR3fAoqE
[21:05] <anerDev> from Messina city to Villa San Giovanni
[21:05] <anerDev> in Sicily
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[21:06] <anerDev> 8 km
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> upu is that orford ness i see?
[21:07] <Maxell> look, cute LPD transmitters http://i.imgur.com/ybygUZP.png
[21:08] <anerDev> guys, I've done this: http://imgur.com/tedMSVv - http://imgur.com/1yVVGP5 - http://imgur.com/3y4tqX4
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[21:09] <chrisstubbs> anerDev, cool :)
[21:10] <anerDev> =D
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> why did you chose not to power the amp from USB?
[21:10] <anerDev> because when I link the amp to my macbook
[21:10] <anerDev> it deactive the port usb !
[21:10] <anerDev> excess of power I think
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> ahh fair enough
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> i need to put mine in an enclosure, i can see it getting broken soon
[21:11] <Upu> it is chrisstubbs
[21:11] <anerDev> tomorrow I will install a swith for choose the power from usb or 9V
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> upu cool place :) i was supposed to be going camping there this weekend but snow etc saw the end of that
[21:11] <anerDev> but I have broke the first resistence, from the sma connector, in the usb cap
[21:11] <Upu> tidy anerDev
[21:12] <Upu> its a cap
[21:12] <costyn> Upu: thanks for fixing the HAbamp... Maxell and I just installed it at our hackerspace. Looks like it works nicely now
[21:12] <Upu> nps costyn
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[21:12] <Upu> anerDev if you can wait a week I'll tell you what the value is
[21:12] <Upu> I have a new LCR meter coming
[21:12] <anerDev> Upu "tidy" like methodical ?
[21:13] <Upu> no neat
[21:13] <anerDev> Upu I can't reinstall the resistance because the plinth where the tip of sma connecotr
[21:13] <anerDev> is soldering
[21:14] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/dongle.jpg
[21:14] <anerDev> detached
[21:14] <anerDev> !
[21:14] <Upu> circle the component on that you've broken
[21:14] <Upu> and/or take a pic of yours
[21:15] <anerDev> Upu this is my situation http://imgur.com/LplWcTk
[21:16] <anerDev> tomorrow I will shoot a photo because
[21:16] <anerDev> is a problem for me now, remove the usb cap !
[21:16] <anerDev> I putted it to my pc
[21:16] <Upu> does it still work ?
[21:16] <anerDev> and the usb dongle work ! I think there isn't a problem if this resistence there isn't !
[21:17] <Upu> may just be a DC blocking cap
[21:17] <Maxell> Upu: I still can't grasp how the small piece of PCB with active components can block the strong pager signal that was fcking up the tuner! I love it!
[21:17] <Upu> hey Maxell
[21:18] <S_Mark> here is my habamp lol http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/01/the-receiver-and-antenna.html
[21:18] <Upu> thank Darkside he made it
[21:18] <Upu> well designed it
[21:18] <fsphil> pagers are a pain
[21:18] <Upu> btw Maxell saw you in the video very cool
[21:18] <Maxell> I expected the pager to be a real pain in the butt; coaxial stubs etc.
[21:18] <anerDev> I hate the sma connector !!
[21:19] <fsphil> but they love you
[21:19] <anerDev> I don't think !
[21:19] <Upu> Cheers for the link S_Mark
[21:20] <anerDev> guys I go to dinner !
[21:20] <Upu> and I'm sure when he wakes up Darkside will love that comment Maxell :)
[21:20] <anerDev> meet later =D
[21:20] <Upu> nice to see thinks being used
[21:20] <Upu> thinks ? how many beers have I had... things
[21:20] <S_Mark> no probs!
[21:21] <Upu> I redid the Wiki page yesterday btw if anyones interested
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[21:24] <Maxell> Upu: thanks. I was pretty nervous, and got confused on some technical aspects (300 and 600 baud RTTY, I never explain that the 70 cm band is licence only but there is an excpetion for LPD, etc, etc)
[21:24] <Upu> he was asking some sensible questions
[21:24] <Upu> and you were giving some knowledgable answers
[21:24] <fsphil> ah that was you Maxell, good job
[21:24] <fsphil> you did vastly better than I would have
[21:25] <Upu> I liked my balloon got a mention (Twice) and fsphil got a mention as well :)
[21:25] <Maxell> Yeah, and to be honest, I didn't knew shit about the payload itself... You just don't know because he didn't editted in.
[21:25] <Upu> that didn't come across at all :)
[21:25] <Maxell> He asked some stuff about the payload itself..
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, how innovative! haha
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> hot glue seems to be the answer to mine
[21:25] <mfa298> S_Mark: Nice write up, a quick thought, your wifi antenna probably doesn't have the same plug, wifi tends to be sma-rp (so you probably didn't have the centre pin)
[21:26] <Maxell> anerDev: why did you twist pair the signal cable :(
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[21:27] <S_Mark> mfa298 - you are exactly right - just grabbed any unsuitable aerial from my router at the time i think lol. I fashioned a centre pin from a bit of wire. I'm now using a proper aerial though!
[21:27] <Maxell> eheh, costyn made a great pic of the new habamp in place... http://i.imgur.com/Vt8iiFb.png
[21:27] <Upu> oh
[21:27] <fsphil> the hackerspace there looks amazing
[21:27] <Upu> you're RTL TCPing ?
[21:27] <Maxell> yeah, like a mad man
[21:27] <Upu> work well ?
[21:27] <Maxell> and raspi usb/network SUCKS BALLS
[21:28] <Upu> I wondered if the Pi would have enough clout to handle that
[21:28] <Maxell> Well, hmm. I have mixed feelings about this one.
[21:28] <Maxell> It's all about the machine handeling the packets.
[21:29] <Maxell> the SDR part is really the hardest.
[21:29] <mfa298> S_Mark: as you've found a decent tuned antenna makes a huge difference especially if you can get it up high.
[21:29] <S_Mark> upu good wiki update!
[21:29] <Upu> cheers S_Mark
[21:29] <Upu> feel free to add anything if you think there is something missing
[21:29] <Upu> antenna is god on these
[21:29] <Maxell> But I expect the Pi failing when I add another stick.
[21:29] <Maxell> We'll see.
[21:29] <S_Mark> yeah defo, had some good success with the aerial just outside the window.
[21:29] <mfa298> rtl_tcp on the pi seems to work ok, although I've had it do some odd things with the gain - but I'm not sure if that's sdr# or rtl_tcp doing odd things.
[21:30] <Upu> I split the signal from a Yagi into a FT817 and a FCD
[21:30] <Upu> which works well
[21:30] <Maxell> Yeah, when it bugs out SDR# shits all over the place.
[21:30] <Upu> but not tried doing it over the LAN
[21:30] <S_Mark> Have tracked 100miles away with my Aquafresh reciever haha
[21:30] <Upu> Aquafresh :)
[21:30] <Upu> I love what you're all doing with this stuff btw
[21:31] <S_Mark> oh yeah - and daveake's 600 baud pi images!
[21:31] <daveake> Need plenty of 600 baud receivers for my next one :)
[21:31] <mfa298> I want a HAB flight soon so I can test the FCD+ vs 817 vs mvt-7100
[21:32] <Maxell> Reconnection is the only fix.
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> daveake, im on board for a bit of ssdv :)
[21:32] <daveake> More than a bit :p
[21:32] <Upu> tbh when fed from the Yagi the 817 is better than the FCD
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[21:32] <chrisstubbs> yeah, just watching the twin transmitter video made my head hurt
[21:32] <daveake> 1 tracker 1 camera 2 frequencies both 600 baud ssdv
[21:32] <Upu> but not by much
[21:32] <mfa298> testing on HF last night there didn't seem to be much difference between all three.
[21:33] <Upu> I'd just like to say the twin transmitter was my idea realised amazingly by daveake
[21:33] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-87YlNoZfM
[21:33] <mfa298> my next challenge is sorting out sound cards for the physical radios so I can use them all at the same time
[21:34] <daveake> Yeah Upu need another idea to keep me busy now :)
[21:34] <Upu> and it just fit into the existing SSDV infrastructure which is another testament to how professional all this code is
[21:34] <daveake> yep
[21:34] Action: Upu tips hat to fsphil
[21:34] <Upu> and whoever else had an hand in the SSDV stuff
[21:34] <nigelvh> Does anyone here know much about inductors?
[21:34] Action: daveake recoils
[21:34] <nigelvh> Haha
[21:34] <Upu> I know how to spell it
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[21:35] <nigelvh> That's a start.
[21:35] <Upu> that was my stock answer if anyone asked me about Novell
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[21:36] <daveake> And mine about sdsv
[21:36] <daveake> oops
[21:36] <nigelvh> I'm making a 15m low pass filter, and constructing the inductors. Inductors seem to be measured generally at pretty low frequency (KHz), but the inductance isn't the same at 22MHz
[21:37] <nigelvh> So, I assume if I've got the filter calculations that say x nH, I want x nH at the filter frequency, not at KHz
[21:37] <Randomskk> you are a bit confused
[21:37] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:38] <nigelvh> I will admit to being confused.
[21:38] <Randomskk> the impedance of an inductor is jwL
[21:38] <Randomskk> L is the inductance
[21:38] <Randomskk> it doesn't change with frequency
[21:38] <Randomskk> (j=sqrt(-1), w=2*pi*freq)
[21:38] <nigelvh> I have charts here that says it does.
[21:39] <Randomskk> well I mean there might be tiny nonlinear effects but
[21:39] <Randomskk> basically no
[21:39] <Randomskk> the inductance is a material property
[21:39] <Randomskk> the impedance caused by that inductance changes with frequency
[21:39] <Randomskk> a 22nH inductor is always 22nH
[21:39] <nigelvh> Hold on, I'll upload my chart so you can see what I'm looking at.
[21:40] <mfa298> it might be that any small internal capacitance starts affecting an inductor at higher frequencies,
[21:40] <daveake> losses will change with freq depending on the core
[21:40] <Randomskk> but 22nH at 1MHz is 0.022 ohms, while 22nH at 1kHz is 2.2E-5 ohms, etc
[21:40] <mfa298> but as Randomskk the inductance should stay the same
[21:40] <Randomskk> I don't think the nonlinear effects are what we're talking about here
[21:41] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/inductor.png
[21:41] <nigelvh> The blue line is the measurement.
[21:43] <Randomskk> could do with actual axis labels, but
[21:43] <Randomskk> those might actually be the nonlinear effects. I can't tell, how big is a division? is the bottom 0?
[21:43] <Randomskk> why are there no labels? :P
[21:44] <Randomskk> an ideal inductor has an inductance which is a physical property, and in a circuit that appears as an impedance of value jwL
[21:44] <Randomskk> L is the inductance
[21:44] <nigelvh> There are. 0nH at the bottom, 100nH per vertical division
[21:44] <nigelvh> 1MHz to 30MHz sweep
[21:44] <nigelvh> L -- is Series Inductance.
[21:44] <Randomskk> a real inductor will probably have various frequency-dependent effects such as increased capacitance on the pins cancelling out some of the inductance
[21:44] <Randomskk> well, increased capacitive impedance
[21:45] <Randomskk> and capacitive coupling between coils perhaps. and might encounter core saturation depending on core material. and so forth
[21:45] <nigelvh> That's my guess, is that as frequency goes up, the capacitive effects come up and bring the measured inductance down.
[21:45] <Randomskk> seems likely. I'm surprised at how big the effect seems to be here.
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello Astrobiologist
[21:47] <nigelvh> Hence my confusion. Do I go based on a low frequency measurement (KHz), or do I go based on what it reads at the frequency of interest?
[21:48] <Randomskk> I guess in theory the latter
[21:48] <Randomskk> if you're making it yourself
[21:48] <Astrobiologist> Hello Lunar_Lander, we meet again.
[21:48] <Randomskk> the measurements you take have the actual impedance at that frequency, assuming you trust your kit, so
[21:49] <Randomskk> use the inductor that has the right impedance at that frequency
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> Astrobiologist, how are you today?
[21:49] <nigelvh> That was my guess. And yes, my gear is S.O.L. calibrated at the DUT holder.
[21:50] <Astrobiologist> I'm OK, spent the day thinking about some molecular biology stuff instead of trying to coax my lab robots into actually doing it
[21:50] <Randomskk> sounds trustworthy :P
[21:51] <nigelvh> It hasn't failed me on any other measurements. I'm just not terribly familiar with inductors.
[21:51] <Astrobiologist> It's much better that way round. Whereas I think HABing is better doing than thinking
[21:52] <nigelvh> Alright, well thank you for your help. I guess at a certain point you just have to try it.
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[21:53] <Randomskk> I think you're fine with it
[21:53] <Randomskk> sorry, I misunderstood your question a bit at first
[21:53] <Randomskk> but yea, if you have calculated your desired inductance, you want the inductor that has that inductance at your target frequency
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[21:53] <nigelvh> It's no problem. It's not like RF is anything less than magic anyway.
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> Astrobiologist, sounds cool
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[22:00] <anerDev> good night guys !
[22:01] <anerDev> ?
[22:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> night anerDev
[22:02] <fsphil> ah, turns out the /quit command doesn't do anything
[22:02] <lz1dev> nice try
[22:02] <fsphil> lol
[22:02] <fsphil> drat
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[22:06] <chrisstubbs> :O there is a makerspace in my old scout hut
[22:06] <chrisstubbs> i went there for 3 years and had no idea
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[22:09] <Astrobiologist> I saw.... It's too horrible..... I saw.... A PICAXE on my breadboard. And yet... i felt strangely drawn....
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't sound good Astrobiologist
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> what about buying AVR?
[22:12] <Astrobiologist> Is this an Arduino thing?
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[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah basically it is the family of microcontrollers by Atmel
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> damn, too late
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah basically it is the family of microcontrollers by Atmel
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> arduinos use them
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[22:21] <Astrobiologist> Which begs the question, what else if anything uses the Atmel chips? I've always wondered. Is it basically 99% Arduino?
[22:22] <Randomskk> raises the question*
[22:22] <Randomskk> and no
[22:22] <Randomskk> they're a common microcontroller
[22:22] <Randomskk> not _as_ common as PICs, but they're still used all over the place
[22:23] <Randomskk> as are a range of other manufacturers you've probably not heard of
[22:23] <fsphil> my video selector has an avr mcu
[22:24] <fsphil> but generally I'm not poking about inside stuff to notice
[22:24] <fsphil> *as much as I used to
[22:25] <nigelvh> Astrobiologist, arduino is built using atmel chips. I often use an atmel chip on my custom boards, then use the arduino software to program them since it's got all those nice libraries.
[22:25] <Astrobiologist> I asked our onsite electronics engineer, Randomskk. He got quite enthusiastic about the subject. But I didn't write all the different manufacturers down ;-)
[22:26] <nigelvh> There's a pile of different makes and models. They all do stuff. Pick what will work for your project and you're comfortable with.
[22:27] <Astrobiologist> Thanks nigelvh, that's kind of what I've always wondered (i.e if a lot of people are doing "naked" Arduinos or if it's all about the shield thingies)
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> so you realised i was trolling earlier
[22:27] <nigelvh> I don't bother with shields.
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> took a while :P
[22:27] <Upu> my boards are all AVR , I use Arduino environment to program but don't use Arduino bootloader
[22:28] <Upu> Laurenceb ? Trolling ? Never...
[22:28] <fsphil> straight AVR here, hardware and software
[22:28] <nigelvh> I just use atmel chips and use the arduino environment.
[22:28] <nigelvh> If you're comfy with something, use it.
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> i suggested use of PICAXE, as a "good platform" :P
[22:29] <Astrobiologist> I want to make my boards pretty naked. That PC104 project got way too unwieldy. I was attracted to the PICAXES because they were small, cheap and naked
[22:29] <Astrobiologist> Didn't really need any other bits
[22:30] <mattbrejza> well for PICAXE you still need a usb->serial, same for a arduino
[22:30] <mattbrejza> and the AVR needs a USB->ISP, so still no real difference
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, hello
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> I am going your way btw :)
[22:30] <fsphil> heading up t'north?
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> compiling in the Arduino IDE but uploading with the avrispmkII and avrdude
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> and I now used an atmega644 in that way
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> without a bootloader on it
[22:31] <fsphil> it's worth it simply to free up the uart
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> exactly
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> btw, maybe a dumb question
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> when I compile code in the IDE
[22:32] <Astrobiologist> I almost went with the Propeller instead of PC104 way, way back. I kind of wish I had. If I really had got to grips with "Cog", having 8 cores would have been fun
[22:32] <Astrobiologist> I have a bunch of reliable USB-serial converters left over.
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> for example if I have a 328P, I obviously can choose the Arduino Uno option
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> but I now run mine at 3.3V and 8 MHz
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> so there is the "Arduino Pro 3.3V 8MHz with 328P"
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> does it make a difference?
[22:32] <fsphil> yea
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> could I compile it with the uno option
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> or does that screw up the registers and so on
[22:33] <fsphil> they're different chips
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> they are? afaik both are atmega328P
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> just the frequency and voltage is different
[22:33] <fsphil> I mean, you're using a 644p?
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> well yea
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> but I was discussing the 328P at that moment
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> that I can use the 644P is thanks to the Sanguino package
[22:34] <fsphil> timing matters for the delay function, baud rates etc
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw I run my 644P at 3.3V 8 MHz also
[22:34] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: have you looked at doing stuff without arduino, like setting pins high/low by doing PORTA |= (1<<3) ?
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> and I was told that it is OK to change the frequency in boards.txt
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, briefly
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> you mean AVR-GCC?
[22:35] <fsphil> I use a 7.3728mhz crystal. just to be different :)
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> or how it is called
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, XD!
[22:35] <fsphil> but mainly to generate exact baud rates
[22:35] <mattbrejza> you can modify registers like that in normal arduino use
[22:36] <Astrobiologist> Since the PICAXE would appear to be an interpreter-based system, presumably that means all the commands possible are in there already on each chip
[22:36] <Astrobiologist> There is no possibility of adding extra librariers etc
[22:36] <Astrobiologist> What you see is what you get
[22:36] <fsphil> not without modifying the firmware
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[22:36] <mattbrejza> well you can always code more 'libraries'
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, yeah I think I once asked here how to program an uC the "proper" way
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> and people asked what I meant
[22:37] <Astrobiologist> Which you definitely can't as I understand it fsphil, if you put it
[22:37] <mattbrejza> but PICAXE doesnt have functions (other than the supplied commands)
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> and I said, yeah like before arduino existed
[22:37] <fsphil> picaxe isn't open source?
[22:37] <mattbrejza> nope
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, but if you go to that level, I think it doesn't matter what AVR you use?
[22:38] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: if you get comfortable with programming registers directly it means you can move between AVR ICs without issue, and jump to platforms like MSP430/ARM much easier
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I just meant :P
[22:38] <Astrobiologist> If you put a picaxe in a standard pic programmer, you just end up with a blank pic
[22:38] <mattbrejza> indeed Astrobiologist
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, because the IDE now limits us to the 168, 328, 1280 and 2560
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> with sanguino you get the 644 and 1284
[22:39] <nigelvh> With GCC you get whatever you want.
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:39] <mattbrejza> while arduino is very nice in gettting people into micros, more people need to realise there is more to micros than just arduinos, and move on a bit at some point
[22:39] <Astrobiologist> So, for a newbie, picaxes might be a reasonable place to start, since you never get mixed up about new libraries etc?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> 1284 is the "biggest" DIP package chip I think
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> in terms of memory and so on
[22:39] <nigelvh> Just get the TQFP
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but it is hard to handle :(
[22:40] <mattbrejza> Astrobiologist: would you be happy to learn c?
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> I do have one thing in my toolbox
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> I got an atmega2560 on an adapter
[22:40] <mattbrejza> thats the main issue with using arduino over picaxe
[22:40] <fsphil> C is as close to a universal computer language as you can get
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> but that means happy soldering 100 pins
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:40] <mattbrejza> the number isnt the issue, its the spacing of them
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:40] <Astrobiologist> Fsphil shall I quote some choice bits from RUTE about C? :-)
[22:40] <nigelvh> You can solder the 100-TQFP by hand. It works well
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> that adapter breaks them out to 1"
[22:41] <mattbrejza> ive done .45mm stuff by hand
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> 2.54 mm
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> to be sure
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:41] <fsphil> I'm not sure what that is Astrobiologist
[22:41] <nigelvh> Astrobiologist, if you learn C, you'll have a good foundation for just about any other language there is.
[22:41] <Astrobiologist> Do Arduinos run their program by default when they are powered upa.
[22:41] <nigelvh> Yes
[22:42] <Astrobiologist> RUTE is a linux bible with quite a lot of C in it too
[22:42] <mattbrejza> while PICAXE BASIC is very easy to learn for a complete bigger (eg schools) you quickly get to the 'limits' and the simplicity becomes a hinderence
[22:42] <Astrobiologist> Basically says that everything is programmed in C
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[22:43] <fsphil> nah
[22:43] <nigelvh> C is also the foundation for a lot of others.
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> I saw some people at uni who worked with avrstudio
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> but they had to do some tasks using assembler
[22:43] <Astrobiologist> At a pinch matt you could have picaxes for different hardware tasks and turn each one on when you need that particular thing to function
[22:45] <nigelvh> That may be overkill
[22:46] <mattbrejza> it doesnt take much to learn enough c to match what you can do with a PICAXE
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[22:47] <Astrobio_> And from the experience of my day job, I am wary of putting too many essential tasks on one chip
[22:47] <nigelvh> Most use cases don't need the reliability of spacecraft.
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[22:48] <mattbrejza> youre much more likely to have issues if you try to switch between picaxes rather than have it all on one
[22:48] <mattbrejza> bbl
[22:48] <nigelvh> And single pics/atmegas have run balloon flights innumerable times.
[22:49] <fsphil> my poor little avr does aprs, rtty, ssdv and sensors all at the same time :)
[22:49] <nigelvh> And it works.
[22:49] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: my PIC's too (no ssdv at the mom ;-)
[22:50] <fsphil> better than I expected. I thought the aprs and rtty would not play together, but no problems at all
[22:50] <nigelvh> You doing the two transmissions simultaneously?
[22:50] <fsphil> SP9UOB_Tom: you programming that in C or assembly?
[22:50] <fsphil> nigelvh: yea
[22:50] <nigelvh> 300 baud?
[22:51] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: C
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:51] <SP9UOB_Tom> assemmbler is good for 16F84
[22:51] <nigelvh> 300 (or 600) is a convenient subset of 1200
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> is attiny any good?
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> hey SP9UOB_Tom
[22:51] <SP9UOB_Tom> Hey LunarLander
[22:52] <fsphil> nigelvh: 300 baud rtty, and 1200 aprs
[22:52] <nigelvh> Yeah, makes timing easier.
[22:52] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: some DSP processing in assembly (aprs demodulator) on dsPIC
[22:52] <fsphil> although the aprs interrupt runs a lot faster
[22:52] <Astrobio_> Last time I sketched out my payload, it had 27 different things to turn on or off, many of which were moving parts. There were also 7 ADCs. I had enough bits using several PC104 cards, but that was cheating :-)
[22:53] <fsphil> as it has to produce the audio waveform rather than just the levels for each bit
[22:53] <nigelvh> Yes, that makes the RTTY portion a LOT easier.
[22:53] <fsphil> indeed
[22:53] <fsphil> although with a spare uart, that bit can be handed off to hardware
[22:53] <nigelvh> I'm planning on combining my APRS transmitter and a WSPR beacon.
[22:54] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: for APRS im doing "trick" - audio is generated by PWM, and just before TX'ing im switch on internal PLL in PIC to speed 8 MHz to 32 MHz
[22:54] <fsphil> haha
[22:54] <Astrobio_> Hence my interest in the beagleboard perhaps... Lots of pins, also linux so could run multiple apps at the same time without things interfering with each other
[22:54] <fsphil> overclocking
[22:54] <fsphil> this is using PWM too
[22:54] <fsphil> the HX1 filters out the high frequency bits
[22:54] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: no over - just turbo boost :-)
[22:54] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: all in spec
[22:55] <fsphil> ah
[22:55] <fsphil> the atxmegas can do 32mhz I believe
[22:55] <fsphil> but not the atmega
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, do you use a capacitor on the pwm output to smooth it for the transmitters input?
[22:55] <nigelvh> Yeah, the atmegas are rated to 20MHz
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> or jus bash it in? ;)
[22:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> pics 18F... can do up to 64 meg
[22:55] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: straight in
[22:55] <fsphil> the radio has its own filter
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> ah fair enough
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[22:56] <fsphil> the same can be done with the ntx2
[22:56] <chrisstubbs> sounds like the kinda thing that would cause horribe interference to me :P
[22:56] <fsphil> well it's probably part of getting the radio module certified, that it has good input filtering
[22:56] <chrisstubbs> yeah suppose so. cool way of doing it
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> any other benifits apart from less parts?
[22:57] <fsphil> we (me and Upu) did DominoEx using the pwm trick
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah btw
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> what is DominoEX?
[22:57] <fsphil> since rather than just two levels you get to vary it over a range
[22:58] <fsphil> you could even do sstv
[22:58] <fsphil> a digital mode Lunar_Lander. like rtty but with more than 2 frequencies
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> so you would have more lines in dl-fldigi?
[22:58] <fsphil> it's a bit better at decoding with weak signals
[22:58] <fsphil> yes
[22:58] <craag> Did you have much success with dominoex? it looks pretty good on paper.
[22:59] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: load up fldigi, and switch to it. you can play about with it
[22:59] <fsphil> it mostly decoded for us, but there was occasional bad characters
[22:59] <fsphil> I think it needs really precise spacing between the tones
[22:59] <craag> Ah ok.
[23:00] <fsphil> it's biggest fault is lack of AFC in fldigi
[23:00] <fsphil> -'
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:00] <fsphil> but that's true of all the multifsk modes
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> I only get the two-line cursor in that mode
[23:00] <craag> Ah ouch, yeah that wouldn't help.
[23:00] <fsphil> I think only psk and rtty have AFC
[23:01] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: the tones go between those two lines
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:01] <fsphil> type something in and hit the transmit button
[23:01] <fsphil> you'll hear it
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:01] <fsphil> (make sure the volume isn't too loud)
[23:01] <fsphil> it sounds great
[23:02] <fsphil> it and olivia, sounds musical
[23:02] <Upu> yeah it does
[23:02] <fsphil> olivia even sounds like the title of a musical
[23:02] <nigelvh> Thirded
[23:02] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXv2bwyApmQ
[23:03] <fsphil> vertical video syndrome
[23:03] <Upu> yeah
[23:03] <fsphil> it's worse now because I notice it
[23:03] <chrisstubbs> lol
[23:03] <fsphil> because of the puppets
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool
[23:04] <fsphil> I remember when we where trying it on HF
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[23:04] <fsphil> and it would often decode even though yo ucouldn't hear it
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[23:04] <fsphil> and there was almost nothing on the waterfall
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD the start and end of Olivia
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[23:05] <fsphil> so if we had something that didn't drift on 434mhz, it would be worth a try
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> awesome
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> which mode?
[23:06] <fsphil> olivia or dominoex
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> I want to try Hellschreiber because it looks funny
[23:06] <fsphil> ah now that's a great mode
[23:06] <fsphil> though if you use it on a flight, you need to force people to type in the lines manually :)
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> mfsk FTW
[23:07] <fsphil> no AFC either
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> theres mfsk code on the wiki
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, why?
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't the balloon send out the text?
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah you mean there is no upload to the server
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[23:08] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: it does, but it's just a picture
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:09] <SP9UOB_Tom> night all
[23:10] <fsphil> nite tom!
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[23:10] <fsphil> lol
[23:10] <fsphil> good quit
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[23:10] <nigelvh> That is a good quit
[23:11] <Astrobio_> Night all
[23:12] <nigelvh> Night
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[23:13] <fsphil> my RPi doesn't seem to want to stay connected to wifi
[23:14] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, wpa_gui?
[23:15] <fsphil> I edited /etc/network/interfaces
[23:16] <fsphil> it works for a bit but drops out eventually
[23:16] <chrisstubbs> im afraid i have no useful advice :(
[23:17] <fsphil> probably the dongle drawing too much power through the usb socket
[23:18] <chrisstubbs> yeah could well be, i think i had to use mine with a hub in the end
[23:18] <fsphil> typically I've lost the psu for my powered hub
[23:19] <fsphil> might nip down to argos tomorrow
[23:19] <chrisstubbs> fsphil bodge it
[23:19] <chrisstubbs> i soldered a 5v phone charger to the PCB on mine
[23:21] <fsphil> not a bad idea
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> "Live and learn. My last employer (who coincidentally made hygrometers) didn’t know that if you don’t enable brownout detection on AVR processors the EEPROM can get corrupted. Learned that one the hard way as well."
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> really?
[23:22] <Randomskk> in some cases
[23:22] <Randomskk> yes
[23:22] <Randomskk> it's in the datasheet
[23:23] <cuddykid> talking of psus, when I'm in need of one of those many old phone chargers lying around.. I can't find one, typical
[23:24] <fsphil> so I'm not the only one
[23:25] <chrisstubbs> i have 3 storage boxes filled with various transmfromers now
[23:25] <chrisstubbs> bootsales :)
[23:25] <chrisstubbs> each in its own zip lock bag so the leads dont tangle together
[23:25] <fsphil> fancy
[23:25] <cuddykid> very clever
[23:26] <cuddykid> they always find a way to tangle
[23:26] <fsphil> if I lifted one psu from my psu drawer, the rest would follow
[23:26] <chrisstubbs> was getting sick of cutting the wire to get one out then terminal bloacking it back together
[23:26] <cuddykid> ditto fsphil
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[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 16 2013