highaltitude.log.20130314

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[00:11] <griffonbot> @daveake: Eben Upton with the framed original "Pi In The Sky" and the TARDIS it flew in on its 4th and final flight #UKHAS http://t.co/0UNQgRGQLr [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/311992980242317312]
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[00:15] <griffonbot> @scriven42: RT @daveake: Eben Upton with the framed original "Pi In The Sky" and the TARDIS it flew in on its 4th and final flight #UKHAS http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/scriven42/status/311994039815774209]
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[04:39] <nigelvh> Wooo! Got wspr (encode) working on an arduino.
[04:42] <KT5TK> wow, congrats!
[04:42] <KT5TK> What DDS?
[04:43] <nigelvh> None. Just generating the tones with a timer and feeding that into my 706. A DDS would be a simple change at this point.
[04:43] <KT5TK> Ah, good
[04:44] <KT5TK> Where did you start from?
[04:45] <nigelvh> This as the protocol reference: http://g4jnt.com/Coding%5CWSPR_Coding_Process.pdf
[04:46] <KT5TK> So essentially from scratch
[04:46] <nigelvh> Then I referenced this a bit, but simplified and made more readable: http://interface.khm.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/wspr_beacon_dds_dcf_f4.pde
[04:46] <nigelvh> I started from scratch, but found that guy was doing it a very similar way, so it made a handy reference.
[04:47] <KT5TK> Now all we need is a 6 digit locator encoded from a GPS
[04:48] <nigelvh> (Also apparently self spots dont get uploaded)
[04:48] <KT5TK> yes, I noticed this too
[04:48] <KT5TK> make the receiver /a or something
[04:49] <nigelvh> Yes, I don't have GPS input yet for the locator, but that is the plan. I plan to use an extra pin on my APRS transmitter, so it will do a transmission on it's own on APRS, then send the audio for WSPR (unless I get a DDS by then)
[04:51] <KT5TK> you mean 30m 300bd aprs?
[04:51] <nigelvh> No, 2m APRS
[04:52] <KT5TK> so you switch bands and modes, or two radios?
[04:52] <nigelvh> No, I'll use my little transmitter board for APRS on 2m, and use a spare pin for audio output for WSPR.
[04:53] <KT5TK> ah, ok
[04:53] <nigelvh> There's a digipeater near the desert down there that I know I can hit at a few hundred mW, so that should work fine.
[04:54] <KT5TK> good to have one out there
[04:55] <nigelvh> This is where we're going: https://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=40.844463,-119.093513&hl=en&ll=40.835372,-119.116688&spn=0.111045,0.220413&sll=40.842905,-119.072571&sspn=0.111033,0.220413&t=h&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=13&z=13
[04:55] <nigelvh> There's a digipeater the local town's hams have put up on one of the ridges nearby.
[04:57] <KT5TK> interesting location. Wonder how farmers can grow fields colse to there.
[04:58] <nigelvh> Irrigation.
[05:01] <nigelvh> There we go. I changed the callsign of the reciever like you said, and the spots showed up.
[05:01] <nigelvh> K7NVH
[05:04] <KT5TK> great job!
[05:05] <nigelvh> I do think I'll get a DDS though. Don't want to leave my 706 on for this use, draws about an amp in squelched recieve. Kinda high for battery power.
[05:05] <Darkside> only an amp?
[05:05] <Darkside> LUXURY!
[05:05] <Darkside> my IC-7000 draws 2.5A on receive
[05:05] <nigelvh> The 7000 is also a larger radio than the 706
[05:06] <Darkside> and has a pretty screen
[05:06] <nigelvh> (I'm not sure what my FT-950 draws)
[05:06] <Darkside> and twin blackfin processors
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[05:55] <JMH_> #history
[05:55] <JMH_> #list
[05:56] <JMH_> %help
[05:56] <nigelvh> I think you want /help
[05:57] <JMH_> #help
[05:57] <JMH_> thank you
[05:57] <JMH_> I've just seen Anthony Stark on TV. Wondered if anyone else had ?
[05:58] <Darkside> stirk*?
[05:58] <JMH_> ok
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[06:29] <Upu> haha
[06:30] <Upu> I didn't even get up to see Anthony Stark on TV
[06:30] <Darkside> what show was it on?
[06:31] <Upu> Cracking the Code 5am on BBC2
[06:33] <Darkside> eh?
[06:33] <Darkside> you were on it? or is stark not a typo
[06:38] <Upu> yes I was yes it is
[06:38] <Darkside> why on cracking the code?
[06:39] <Upu> kids science program
[06:40] <Darkside> ahh ok
[06:40] <Upu> just watching Dave now
[06:40] <Darkside> was dave actually named after lister?
[06:41] <Upu> "everyone has a mate called Dave"
[06:41] <Darkside> ah
[06:42] <nigelvh> I know I do.
[06:43] <Upu> yay fswebcam makes TV
[06:45] <Upu> lol
[06:45] <Upu> the burst bollocks made it in
[06:45] <Upu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r9tww/Cracking_the_Code/
[06:45] <Darkside> :<
[06:45] <Darkside> no british proxy for me
[06:46] <nigelvh> None for me either.
[06:46] <Upu> Damn colonies
[06:46] <nigelvh> hahaha
[06:47] <Upu> That Ali in the back ground
[06:47] <Upu> not bad actually cut together well
[06:48] <Upu> actually if you click that link does it say not availble ?
[06:49] <Upu> its an education program so it might work
[06:49] <nigelvh> Tried it. Said it's not available outside the UK
[06:50] <Upu> oh well I'll try grab it at some point
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[06:53] <Ciemon> Darkside: nigelvh you want a copy of that prog?
[06:54] <nigelvh> Sure, but don't go out of your way about it. Not a big deal.
[06:54] <Ciemon> get-iplayer ftw
[06:55] <Ciemon> msg me your email address and I'll send you a a link
[06:55] <Darkside> lenniethelemming@gmail.com
[06:55] <Upu> I'm just trying to work out how to use it now
[06:55] <Upu> gimmie a few mins
[06:56] <Ciemon> Upu get-iplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r9tww/Cracking_the_Code/
[06:56] <Upu> oh yeah coming now
[06:56] <Upu> thanks
[06:57] <Upu> its a 6 min bit in the middle
[06:57] <Ciemon> No time to edit it this morning :)
[06:57] <Upu> no I cba
[06:57] <Upu> :)
[06:57] <Ciemon> heh
[06:58] <Upu> when you watch it note Daves finger he nearly sliced off
[07:00] <lz1dev> /fq 16
[07:00] <lz1dev> morning
[07:02] <costyn_> hak5.org (webtv show) was at our launch: http://youtu.be/anmVE6QzZHc
[07:05] <Upu> http://www2.upuaut.net/Cracking_the_Code_-_Cracking_the_Code_b01r9tww_default.mp4
[07:05] <Upu> should be there in about 30 mins
[07:05] <Upu> don't try it just yet as still uploading
[07:05] <Upu> right work calls bbl
[07:05] <nigelvh> "Here's a link... now don't click it"
[07:06] <x-f> teaser..
[07:07] <Darkside> costyn_: i thought that was you
[07:08] <costyn_> Darkside: :)
[07:08] <costyn_> I'm not featured much in the video as I'm busy with preparations. I'm the guy in the black and orange jacket
[07:09] <costyn_> most of the talking is done by Jeroen
[07:11] <Darkside> ahh
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[07:34] <griffonbot> @daveake: See "Pi In The Sky" on BBC2 edu prog "Cracking The Code" http://t.co/1rfskrb2g1 for the next 7 days.. Clip starts 23:18 #UKHAS #raspberry_pi [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/312104428285075456]
[07:34] <x-f> costyn_, very nice video
[07:38] <UpuWork> link works now and you should be able to stream it
[07:45] <daveake> cheers good work :)
[07:45] <lz1dev> costyn_: that was about the easiest recovery
[07:45] <lz1dev> :D
[07:47] <eroomde> "I will kill you last"
[07:47] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/TkJqw1Q.png
[07:48] <eroomde> this is v good btw
[07:48] <daveake> What you can't see are the 2 cameramen, director, and sound guy squeezed into the rest of the room
[07:49] <UpuWork> lol
[07:50] <UpuWork> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5809615703033948561/5809615773277249682?banner=pwa
[07:50] <eroomde> genuine excitement at the launch!
[07:51] <eroomde> caption for that google plus link
[07:51] <eroomde> 'steve it's dave... got any 3kg balloons? I got an idea...'
[07:52] <daveake> lol
[07:52] <eroomde> it's very impressive and untelevision-like that they're actually showing actual code
[07:52] <eroomde> and explaining what it does
[07:52] <eroomde> this is great
[07:53] <daveake> "How many ballloons? Er, kid, how much do you weigh?"
[07:53] <daveake> eroomde this is how I hoped it would turn out
[07:54] <eroomde> i enjoyed your code being reviewed by the small boy too
[07:54] <UpuWork> the burst was a little dead pan as we relived the burst 5 times
[07:54] <eroomde> "it just looks like somebody's done that [mimes flailing randomly at the keyboard]"
[07:54] <UpuWork> haha
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[07:59] <eroomde> that was v good
[07:59] <eroomde> impressed
[08:00] <UpuWork> didn't do a bad job
[08:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Dunville "[UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[08:01] <daveake> I'm glad they didn't include the bit where the balloon accidentally came off the filler :P
[08:02] <UpuWork> or the bit where you taught the children some new words
[08:02] <daveake> lol
[08:02] <eroomde> :)
[08:02] <UpuWork> same sequence ? :)
[08:03] <eroomde> scratch looks fun
[08:03] <eroomde> we should build hab modules
[08:03] <eroomde> rtty and gps parsing
[08:03] <UpuWork> well
[08:03] <UpuWork> Dave and I are working on a board that plugs into a Pi
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[08:03] <UpuWork> its a standalone tracker in its own right but provides data to the Pi for people to do what they want with
[08:04] <UpuWork> Edu-hab
[08:04] <eroomde> glad adam dunville got sorted
[08:04] <UpuWork> for schools etc
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[08:04] <eroomde> that sounds good
[08:05] <eroomde> all robotsh have to be autonomoush
[08:06] <eroomde> needlessly mean. i must drink that coffee
[08:09] <eroomde> well explained on how large programs are arranged
[08:10] <eroomde> i think i recognise the icub bloke...
[08:14] <eroomde> this is really good!
[08:15] <eroomde> i want to navigate the car through the maze
[08:15] <eroomde> why couldn't I have done this
[08:15] <eroomde> we just had ms paint
[08:16] <UpuWork> lol
[08:17] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: RT @daveake: See "Pi In The Sky" on BBC2 edu prog "Cracking The Code" http://t.co/1rfskrb2g1 for the next 7 days.. Clip starts 23:18 #UK ... [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/312115331256696832]
[08:18] <eroomde> 'getting rid of the bugs is all part of the fun'
[08:18] <eroomde> no.
[08:18] <eroomde> they're closing down Google Reader
[08:18] <eroomde> OMG
[08:18] <jonsowman> yeah
[08:18] <jonsowman> rubbish isn't it
[08:18] <jonsowman> :(
[08:18] <eroomde> that's terrible
[08:18] <eroomde> whose idea was that?
[08:18] <eroomde> let's kill them
[08:18] <jonsowman> haha
[08:19] <jonsowman> http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/a-second-spring-of-cleaning.html
[08:22] <jonsowman> and now newsblur is getting hammered
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[08:27] <fsphil> google are very trigger happy when it comes to killing services. I'm surprised they still do search
[08:27] <daveake> lol
[08:28] <eroomde> paranoia:
[08:28] <eroomde> setting up mail on my macbook to imap several GB of emails locally
[08:28] <eroomde> just inacse...
[08:30] <jonsowman> lol
[08:32] <Elwell> There's the normal downfall subtitled video for reader closing too
[08:33] <Elwell> youtu.be/A25VgNZDQ08
[08:36] <fsphil> those videos must be tricky to watch if you can speak german
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[08:37] <eroomde> i'm on a mailing list called 'Waaaah!'
[08:38] <eroomde> of about 10 people, 3 of which work in google search quality
[08:38] <eroomde> it's a list for ranting
[08:38] <fsphil> home away from home then?
[08:38] <eroomde> i've just posted the toutube link to it
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[08:39] <Elwell> its one of the better ones - covers quite a few points
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[08:47] <costyn_> x-f: thanks, kinda nice that this guy wanted to document/film everything
[08:50] <eroomde> half way through backing up my gmail
[08:52] <UpuWork> I'll check that video of yours costyn_ tonight
[08:52] <Laurenceb_> im sure google already backed it up
[08:52] <Laurenceb_> and read it
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[08:52] <fsphil> they very kindly moved all my videos from google video to youtube
[08:52] <fsphil> which then failed to process them
[08:53] <Laurenceb_> same here lol
[08:53] <UpuWork> mine too but it was only a load of crappy WOW videos I'd done
[08:53] <costyn_> UpuWork: thanks :) the guy made a pretty lengthy item out of it. (30 minutes). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKNbJCVRXhA is the footage from the payload itself, but I think I already posted it here
[08:53] <UpuWork> cheers
[08:53] <eroomde> gosh the thermal sensitivity on those mini dvb sticks is outrageous
[08:54] <costyn_> UpuWork: be sure to have sound on at about 5 minutes, you can hear a plane coming by, pretty nuts :)
[08:54] <UpuWork> lol ok
[08:55] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @daveake: See "Pi In The Sky" on BBC2 edu prog "Cracking The Code" http://t.co/1rfskrb2g1 for the next 7 days.. Clip starts 23:18 #UK ... [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/312124716552957952]
[08:55] <fsphil> the social interwebs at work
[08:56] <HixWork> or lack of
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[09:02] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/chjC7Ol.jpg boards finally arrived
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[09:05] <eroomde> nice
[09:05] <eroomde> next up, analysing some logic?
[09:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - 2/3 March - Hyperion/Habanero from
[09:06] <eroomde> oh god it's passed 9
[09:06] <eroomde> i should get to work
[09:07] <costyn_> HixWork: looks nice!
[09:07] <HixWork> lack of logical thinking on your part there eroomde :)
[09:07] <HixWork> cheers Costyn
[09:08] <costyn_> HixWork: whats the MC55 thingy on the back?
[09:09] <HixWork> that Mr. Van D is a GSM/GPRS module header http://i.imgur.com/SPrOoti.jpg
[09:10] <costyn_> HixWork: interesting
[09:10] <HixWork> hopefully it'll work
[09:10] <costyn_> simcard go in the back?
[09:10] <HixWork> Yup, and I've got loads, so if it does work they may be available
[09:11] <HixWork> well, 10 off
[09:11] <costyn_> minimum order quantity? :)
[09:12] <HixWork> boards yes, modules no, just offered the guy £150 for 10 and he accepted
[09:12] <costyn_> ah
[09:13] <HixWork> a bit of a rash move really
[09:13] <costyn_> heh
[09:13] <HixWork> but hey ho
[09:13] <costyn_> well if they work maybe Upu can sell them in his shop
[09:14] <daveake> Upu is too busy being famous on TV now :p
[09:14] <HixWork> I think Upu went the sparkfun route, myself being stupid dug a big hole :)
[09:14] <UpuWork> hmm ?
[09:14] <UpuWork> Sparkfun ?
[09:15] <HixWork> GSM/GPRS
[09:15] <HixWork> MC55 vs Sparkfun module
[09:16] <UpuWork> No I gave up on it tbh
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[09:16] <UpuWork> might revisit it at some point
[09:16] <UpuWork> do you want these modules back ?
[09:16] <HixWork> not bothered, if you aren't gonna use em, but if you want to try then hold on, got breakouts if you want one?
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[09:17] <UpuWork> I'll post them back as I'm probably not going to use them at this time
[09:17] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/chjC7Ol.jpg arrived finally :)
[09:17] <UpuWork> whats the crystal for ?
[09:17] <HixWork> ok nps
[09:17] <HixWork> ahh thats tracker brd
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[09:17] <HixWork> lh MC55 rh Tracker
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[09:24] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Cracking the Code"
[09:27] <costyn_> daveake: Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only. :(
[09:27] <costyn_> bah
[09:28] <daveake> PM
[09:28] <UpuWork> you can post it here
[09:28] <UpuWork> i don't mind
[09:28] <UpuWork> just not on the list
[09:28] <daveake> ah ok
[09:28] <daveake> http://www2.upuaut.net/Cracking_the_Code_-_Cracking_the_Code_b01r9tww_default.mp4
[09:29] <daveake> I'm uploading our section now
[09:29] <UpuWork> that would be better
[09:29] <daveake> Just another 37 minutes of uploading to go .... :p
[09:29] <UpuWork> lol
[09:29] <UpuWork> your internet is ace
[09:30] <lz1dev> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENITui5_jU
[09:30] <daveake> That's a new use for the word "ace" that I'd not come across before
[09:31] <costyn_> lz1dev: ahyea that's a nice one
[09:31] <UpuWork> "BT Infinity isn't currently available to you"
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[09:31] <costyn_> lz1dev: wonder how it would look if the water was more laminar
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[09:31] <daveake> More like 1/infinity
[09:32] <lz1dev> costyn_: i love the 23hz sine
[09:32] <daveake> Damn A in ADSL
[09:32] <lz1dev> its mindbending
[09:32] <UpuWork> CHADDLEWORTH no plans you don't have have 21CN
[09:33] <UpuWork> not exactly a big Exchange
[09:33] <daveake> nope
[09:33] <daveake> Need to move
[09:33] <daveake> lol
[09:33] <UpuWork> 569 residential premises
[09:34] <UpuWork> mine has 20k on it :/
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[09:35] <daveake> At least my internet works Upu
[09:35] <daveake> :)
[09:35] <UpuWork> oh I just rebooted home PC for updates :)
[09:35] Action: lz1dev expects daveake to timeout
[09:37] <daveake> still here
[09:37] <daveake> :)
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[09:39] <fsphil> good to see RFC 2549 working well
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[09:44] <cuddykid> daveake: watched the BBC clip - nice work!
[09:44] <daveake> cheers I'm really pleased with how they put it together
[09:44] <cuddykid> yep
[09:45] <cuddykid> how odd airing it at 5am lol
[09:45] <daveake> It's a regular slot for school stuff ... 2 hours one for juniors one for seniors, with the idea that the teachers record the show for use later
[09:46] <cuddykid> ah, I see
[09:46] <fsphil> they can bring out the ancient TV on wheels
[09:46] <fsphil> with a VHS player
[09:46] <cuddykid> that's right, stick the VHS in
[09:46] <daveake> It was that old Sony format when I was at school
[09:48] <HixWork> then totally lose it a the whole class as someone switches womens tennis on using the stolen remote
[09:50] <costyn_> HixWork: haha
[09:51] <HixWork> of course that was just fiction, it never happened at my school every biology lesson. Ever
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[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
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[10:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[10:20] <lz1dev> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CprHRsa1OTo
[10:29] <craag> I'm quite impressed by the explanation of the programming in the BBC clip.
[10:31] <fsphil> indeed
[10:34] <eroomde> fucking hel Mike Bessant
[10:34] <eroomde> that advice is never true
[10:34] <eroomde> jesus
[10:34] <eroomde> MUST.
[10:34] <eroomde> RESIST.
[10:34] <eroomde> URGE.
[10:34] <fsphil> I can't be that ba.... WTF
[10:35] <fsphil> It's Ed Time
[10:35] <costyn_> eroomde: just give in
[10:35] <costyn_> fsphil: :)
[10:35] <jonsowman> i was waiting for eroomde to comment on that
[10:35] <jonsowman> :D
[10:36] <mattbrejza> you cant even have functions in picaxe basic :(
[10:36] <costyn_> it's just an awful programming 'language'
[10:37] <jonsowman> i have fond nostalgic memories
[10:37] <jonsowman> but yes it is awful
[10:38] <fsphil> I started with it on the C64, but that taught me very quickly to learn assembly
[10:38] <costyn_> the guy behind http://letsmakerobots.com/ is quite a fan, I built one using a picaxe, but that's the first and last picaxe that's coming into my house :)
[10:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[10:39] <staylo> That's what you think. Just you wait till my medication wears off.
[10:39] <eroomde> boom
[10:39] <jonsowman> hah
[10:39] <costyn_> ooh http://marcamos.com/ha/this-is-gonna-be-good.gif
[10:39] <fsphil> You've Been Ed'd
[10:39] <costyn_> niiiiice
[10:40] <jonsowman> totally untrue of course
[10:40] <jonsowman> but a useful quote in this context
[10:40] <fsphil> indeed, I used BASIC but I'm better now
[10:40] <fsphil> I don't even hardly use GOTO now
[10:41] <jonsowman> lol
[10:41] <oh7lzb> Heh, I've learned a new habit of using it a bit in C, for error handling / cleanup :)
[10:42] <jonsowman> uIP is full of goto
[10:42] <jonsowman> makes me sad
[10:42] <oh7lzb> to get out of nested loops
[10:42] <costyn_> oh7lzb: i hope you're trolling :P
[10:42] <oh7lzb> No, am not. Sorry! :)
[10:43] <fsphil> I have used it on occasion
[10:43] <Randomskk> a lot of a certain type of C code does use goto
[10:43] <eroomde> tbh i don't think it's the language that's the problem
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[10:43] <Randomskk> C being basically a DSL for assembler it seems fair enough to use jumps. often way quicker on embedded stuff anyway
[10:43] <fsphil> avoiding goto can sometimes make code ugly
[10:43] <jonsowman> yes, well there's a reason that uIP uses it
[10:43] <eroomde> writing a solid gps parser that runs asynchronously with rtty is a hard thing fromma design point of view
[10:43] <eroomde> arduino happy functions are pretty much as simple as basic anyway
[10:44] <eroomde> delayms(1000), printLn("blah") or whatever
[10:44] <Randomskk> yup
[10:44] <costyn_> define "happy"?
[10:44] <fsphil> happy not to use basic
[10:44] <jonsowman> not having to deal with registers
[10:44] <eroomde> exactly
[10:44] <costyn_> ah
[10:44] <mattbrejza> http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?23374-Arduino-experience
[10:45] <jonsowman> oh god mattbrejza
[10:45] <Randomskk> oh wow
[10:45] <fsphil> lol
[10:45] <costyn_> poor deluded souls
[10:45] <eroomde> "my download cable doesn't work"
[10:45] <fsphil> "oh noes it's different!!1"
[10:45] <mattbrejza> http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?10903-Arduino-gt-PICAXE
[10:45] <eroomde> it's just USB...
[10:45] <jonsowman> mattbrejza: stop now
[10:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: I assume they're talking about the PICAXE download cable
[10:45] <jonsowman> lol
[10:45] <Randomskk> which is an FTDI thing
[10:46] <Randomskk> that goes to a 3.5mm jack
[10:46] <costyn_> Randomskk: Its horrific
[10:46] <fsphil> that's like complaining to Sony because your playstation controller doesn't work in your Wii
[10:46] <eroomde> it was 3.5mm phono jack when i last used picaxe
[10:46] <oh7lzb> Like, this: https://github.com/hessu/aprsc/blob/master/src/accept.c#L987 and https://github.com/hessu/aprsc/blob/master/src/accept.c#L1268
[10:46] <Randomskk> indeed
[10:46] <costyn_> Randomskk: I have one at home, it costs and arm and a leg and looks funny. usb to 3.5mm jack
[10:46] <mattbrejza> http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?20095-PICAXE-Popularity
[10:46] <fsphil> anyone who uses jack for anything other than audio needs slapped
[10:46] <fsphil> and even that needs a slap
[10:46] <jonsowman> mattbrejza: stop before you make people cry
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[10:47] <Randomskk> "I've not found the lack of variables to be too restrictive. It is possible to peek/poke into a reasonable amount of RAM, so you can re-use the variables.
[10:47] <mattbrejza> http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?21079-PICAXE-amp-Arduino-(code-size-comparisons-just-for-fun)
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[10:47] <mattbrejza> ok tghat will do
[10:47] Action: fsphil cries
[10:47] <jonsowman> look what you've done
[10:47] <costyn_> mattbrejza: yes, please stop the horror
[10:47] <mattbrejza> back to kicking synopsys tools
[10:48] <mattbrejza> however when commands take hours to run it probably wont be long
[10:48] <Randomskk> "Welcome Effinrobots (great name BTW)"
[10:48] <Randomskk> woah
[10:48] <Randomskk> what is this, the late 80s?
[10:48] Action: fsphil writes some C code
[10:48] <fsphil> there there, it's all right
[10:49] <mattbrejza> so tempted to reply to that thread with those links as a reason to use PICAXE
[10:49] <Randomskk> haha oh boy
[10:49] <Randomskk> that would be less subtle than your last troll
[10:49] <Randomskk> but seeing as literally no one noticed that one perhaps less subtle is good
[10:49] <jonsowman> lol
[10:49] <jonsowman> that was a shame
[10:50] <mattbrejza> the last one will be hard to beat on subtly
[10:50] <Laurenceb> the rs232 to 3.5mm phono jack was kind of cool
[10:50] <Laurenceb> i use it on a few of my payloads
[10:50] <Laurenceb> easy to plug in and check its running on the lanuchpad
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[10:51] <Laurenceb> *used
[10:51] <jonsowman> important difference
[10:51] <fsphil> we had something similar on my first launch. we used an audio splitter to share the GPS between payloads ;)
[10:51] <mattbrejza> also at the time everyone had rs232 ports so the programming method was a good idea at the time
[10:51] <costyn_> wat... "However the learning curve for a true beginner will be exponentially higher than with a PIcaxe. If you gave one programming newbie a Picaxe Starter Kit and and another an Arduino, and told them to make an Led flash at 1000 hz.... The Picaxe newbie might could have that done in a day or less while the Arduino newbie after a week or so might still be scratching his head."
[10:51] <Randomskk> 10:46:37 fsphil> anyone who uses jack for anything other than audio needs slapped
[10:51] <Randomskk> 10:51:17 fsphil> we had something similar on my first launch.
[10:51] <Randomskk> what?
[10:51] <cuddykid> lol
[10:51] <fsphil> Randomskk: I didn't make it
[10:52] <eroomde> where is this subtle troll?
[10:52] <eroomde> how did i miss it?
[10:52] <eroomde> give me a date bound
[10:52] <fsphil> my first flight was basically getting a lift on someone elses flight
[10:52] <Randomskk> it was pretty subtle
[10:52] <Randomskk> uhm
[10:52] <mattbrejza> our first digital camera had a 3 pin audio jack that used serial to get photos off the camera
[10:52] <Randomskk> what thread was it even in
[10:52] <jonsowman> can't remembver the thread
[10:52] <jonsowman> oh, insurance
[10:52] <jonsowman> 29/07/2012
[10:52] <jonsowman> 22:12
[10:53] <eroomde> gorrit
[10:53] <jonsowman> there's a reason it reads like it's been autotranslated to french and then back to english ;)
[10:54] <mattbrejza> i spent way too long doing that
[10:54] <jonsowman> hahah
[10:54] <jonsowman> it was so excellent
[10:54] <jonsowman> totally worth it
[10:54] <Randomskk> oh god 11am
[10:54] Action: Randomskk cries about coursework
[10:54] <jonsowman> how's that going?
[10:54] <Randomskk> I went to bed at 2 and figured I'd do it in the morning
[10:54] <jonsowman> kay
[10:54] <jonsowman> ...
[10:54] <fsphil> always a bad idea
[10:54] <jonsowman> it's morning
[10:54] <Randomskk> probably should have stayed up and just done it
[10:55] <Randomskk> about halfway through but I'm hopeful that the latter bits wqill be quicker. they look it
[10:55] <jonsowman> what time is deadline?
[10:55] <Randomskk> 4pm
[10:55] <jonsowman> right
[10:55] <Randomskk> though I have that meeting at 2.30pm
[10:55] <jonsowman> which meeting?
[10:55] <Randomskk> with ramji
[10:55] <jonsowman> oh the guy
[10:55] <jonsowman> yes
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[10:55] <jonsowman> #highaltitude is silent as everyone reads that email
[10:56] <eroomde> yep
[10:56] <costyn_> what email?
[10:56] <eroomde> i can see the clunky prose bit that looks suspicious
[10:56] <eroomde> do i need to read the whole thread to get it?
[10:56] <jonsowman> costyn_: ukhas list, 29/07/2012, 22:12, from mattbrejza
[10:56] <mattbrejza> nope
[10:56] <costyn_> jonsowman: thx
[10:57] <eroomde> OH
[10:57] <eroomde> fuck me
[10:57] <eroomde> that's genius
[10:57] <jonsowman> hahah
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[10:57] <eroomde> you win
[10:57] <mattbrejza> :D
[10:58] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[10:59] <jonsowman> too subtle for everyone at the time apparently
[11:00] <fsphil> BASICALLY, GOTO F***
[11:00] <fsphil> although what daveake said reads better
[11:00] <fsphil> threads on insurance basically got ignored here :)
[11:00] <costyn_> jonsowman: too subtle for me still :(
[11:00] <jonsowman> fsphil: yeah I think that was the issue
[11:00] <jonsowman> most people were too bored with the disucssion and didn't read it
[11:00] <jonsowman> *discussion
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[11:04] <fsphil> I'd probably still be using PICs if they had a decent free C compiler
[11:04] <eroomde> that was what screwed them in the first place i think
[11:04] <eroomde> the newer ones are not a bad architecture
[11:04] <eroomde> but WinAVR destroyed all before it
[11:05] <daveake> I've used 3 different PIC C compilers to date.
[11:05] <daveake> Hate them all.
[11:05] <Randomskk> I haven't used any very new ones, but all the ones I have used had some pretty gnarly architectures really
[11:05] <jonsowman> I had to use MPLAB and C18 last year for a project
[11:05] <jonsowman> was so bad
[11:05] <jonsowman> lots of stupid things
[11:05] <daveake> I'd feel sorry for you if I hadn't been in a similar position :)
[11:05] <mattbrejza> msp430 ftw
[11:06] <mattbrejza> (just throwing it in)
[11:06] <jonsowman> however I found a good solution
[11:06] <jonsowman> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/62498867/mplabfire.png
[11:06] <Randomskk> bank switching and single accumulator
[11:06] <zyp> mattbrejza, cortex-m ftw :p
[11:06] <daveake> I like that solution
[11:06] <mattbrejza> yea theyre good too
[11:06] <craag> cortex m0+ are looking awesome.
[11:07] <jonsowman> also you'll note it was running in a vm for containment reasons :D
[11:07] <daveake> Gawd. When you see a (Pi) thread entitled "Grounding 5v", you know it's not going to go well
[11:07] <jonsowman> lol
[11:08] <fsphil> at least it's cheap :)
[11:08] <daveake> Wonder if it's the same person whose i2c only worked when his HDMI cable was plugged in ...
[11:08] <daveake> (missing ground to the i2c device, in case anyone hasn't guessed)
[11:09] <HixWork> how do I call alphabettiSpaghetti into my sprinf?
[11:11] <daveake> Does it float?
[11:12] <fsphil> I'm still surprised nobody else has done a Pi HAB flight
[11:12] <mattbrejza> probably all caught fire
[11:13] <mattbrejza> also the launch in {somewhere east eu} did
[11:13] <fsphil> ah
[11:14] <daveake> There was one in the USA but it was just logging not tracking
[11:15] <fsphil> that's a shame
[11:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[11:16] <daveake> Only my first one got hot, and that was the external linear reg. Temps are much more sensible with the SMPS modules
[11:16] <mattbrejza> also id expect the 'A' is a lot better
[11:17] <fsphil> it is
[11:20] <daveake> Much
[11:20] <daveake> I've not measured it yet but allegedly it's 113mA
[11:20] <daveake> vs 400mA or so for the B
[11:21] <fsphil> there was talk of extra power saving code too
[11:28] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[11:33] <daveake> Yes (gratuitous name-dropping alert) Eben said to me last night they could help re power saving. I said not to bother as I'm expecting to get plenty enough life from 4 AAAs. I'll check that tomorrow
[11:35] <Randomskk> oh my god
[11:35] <Randomskk> yes
[11:35] <Randomskk> brace for this
[11:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[11:35] <daveake> <braced>
[11:35] <mattbrejza> i have sat down
[11:35] <daveake> (not braced enough I think)
[11:35] <eroomde> DIVE DIVE DIVE
[11:35] <jonsowman> oh christ
[11:35] <fsphil> oh no
[11:35] <eroomde> BATTLE STATIONS
[11:36] <eroomde> all the lights in my office have gone read
[11:36] <daveake> I shall read the comments here and deduce what he said
[11:36] <eroomde> i have got out the ibm model M to reply
[11:36] <eroomde> gone red*
[11:36] <costyn_> lol
[11:36] <Randomskk> it's... it's so perfect
[11:36] <Randomskk> I might just block all new emails to the list ever
[11:36] <daveake> Does he suggest Southampton BASIC coded on a Teletype?
[11:36] <Randomskk> so that this can stand as the pinnacle
[11:37] <Randomskk> the heights of our collective accomplishments
[11:37] <Randomskk> standing taller even than the altitude record
[11:37] <costyn_> Randomskk: haha
[11:37] <fsphil> actually not too bad
[11:37] <fsphil> abort abort
[11:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[11:38] <jonsowman> oh god
[11:39] <costyn_> mattbrejza: haha, couldn't resist eh
[11:39] <mattbrejza> is has descended so nope
[11:39] <jonsowman> good work on starting with the "I *really* miss PICAXE" one
[11:42] <eroomde> i am just reading this
[11:42] <eroomde> fortran is made up of C libraries?
[11:42] <eroomde> wow
[11:42] <jonsowman> nothing surprises me any more
[11:42] <eroomde> everything i thought i knew about the history of programming languages was wrong
[11:42] <costyn_> eroomde: it gets better
[11:42] <jonsowman> C libraries are made from bananas and biscuits
[11:42] <eroomde> bash is simple?
[11:43] Action: daveake walks off to write a tracker in COBOL
[11:43] <eroomde> pixace basic is compiled?
[11:43] <eroomde> what the fuck?
[11:43] <eroomde> oh god
[11:43] <eroomde> it's almost not worth it
[11:43] <Darkside> i should write one in brainfuck
[11:43] <Darkside> or LOLCODE
[11:43] <jonsowman> almost
[11:44] <costyn_> bash, it's the programming language of choice. nevermind it's more anal about syntax than almost any language
[11:44] <daveake> My Pi ones use bash :-). But only to take pictures and to run the real programs
[11:45] <fsphil> hehe
[11:46] <x-f> daveake, so basically bash is the most important part? :)
[11:47] <costyn_> x-f: yes, because it's so simple
[11:47] <daveake> suuure :)
[11:47] <fsphil> it's the Higgs Boson of the computer world
[11:48] <x-f> that's a thought
[11:48] <russss> eroomde: apparently Dijkstra was talking about some 70s version of BASIC which is even more fucked up than what we now know as BASIC. It didn't have loops or something.
[11:48] <hibby> fsphil: what, theoretically it makes everything nice?
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[11:50] <Elwell> fsphil: _the_ Higgs, or _a_ Higgs :-p
[11:50] <Darkside> at some point i need to code up a payload to transmit baudot
[11:50] <fsphil> yes
[11:50] <Darkside> so i can use a friends teletype machine
[11:52] <daveake> That would be great
[11:53] <gonzo__> my original bonzo code supported baudot and was tesated on the mech tty. But for over air use I'd need a terminal unit/modem
[11:53] <daveake> My first computer experience was on a teletype, this would bring me full circle :-). I could then die a happy man :p
[11:54] <Darkside> this thing is a teleprinter
[11:54] <Darkside> or whatver
[11:54] <gonzo__> (somewhere I do have some pic code that will do an rs232 ascii to baudot 50bd)
[11:54] <Darkside> it'll print out the text onto paper
[11:54] <daveake> close enough
[11:56] <fsphil> you'd also need those tape reel things they had in old data centers
[11:56] <fsphil> just for the effect
[11:56] <Darkside> hehe
[11:57] <gonzo__> and archive the data on punch tape
[11:57] <daveake> oh yus
[11:59] <daveake> fax for SSDV
[12:00] <fsphil> ah the old weather fax system
[12:00] <Darkside> haha
[12:00] <Darkside> you could do that
[12:00] <fsphil> fldigi has a decoder for that
[12:00] <Darkside> it'd just be horribly slow
[12:00] <Darkside> WEFAX is just FSK
[12:00] <fsphil> yep
[12:01] <fsphil> and a mechanical printer to receive it
[12:02] <fsphil> dot matrix even
[12:02] <fsphil> all printers are mechanical
[12:04] <gonzo__> I thuibnk this is my tty tests? www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/tty/DSCF2710.AVI
[12:05] <gonzo__> you've prob all seen it before
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[12:14] <DanielRichman> Darkside: morse pls
[12:16] <DanielRichman> having said that jokingly, I now remember that some people actually do use morse for real
[12:16] <daveake> semaphore over ssdv
[12:16] <Darkside> haha
[12:16] <daveake> Might get one position over the entire flight :)
[12:18] <Darkside> reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WmudPExkKJ4#t=34s
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[12:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[12:21] <eroomde> and now I should probably just do some work
[12:21] <Darkside> ooh
[12:22] <Darkside> an ed email
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[12:23] <Darkside> well that was tame
[12:24] <costyn_> yep, really restrained yourself :)
[12:24] <eroomde> ed 2.0
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[12:26] <eroomde> only the grumbliest, flakiest chocolate
[12:28] <jonsowman> nobody knows what to say now
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[12:28] <daveake> that's a new twist
[12:28] <costyn_> probably just as well
[12:29] <jonsowman> my chocolate knowledge is a bit flakey
[12:33] <gonzo__> a marathon email
[12:37] <Elwell> depends on the topic
[12:38] <Elwell> any innuendos and you'll be snickering all day
[12:40] <daveake> I think we need to time out
[12:43] <staylo> I hear a wispa of discontent
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[12:44] <gonzo__> ed's reply did suggest he's quite a smartie
[12:44] <Elwell> staylo: only in distant galaxies
[12:45] <staylo> it mars his reputation somewhat
[12:45] <eroomde> speaking of marred reputations, i knew a girl at university
[12:45] <Elwell> we should rename high altitude to aero projects
[12:45] <fsphil> that's awful
[12:45] <eroomde> who made some money at gentleman's clubs, going peek-a-boo shows
[12:45] GadgetDroid (~GadgetDro@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[12:46] <eroomde> but she broke their contract in a shameful way and now she's reduced to doing it at shopping centres
[12:46] <eroomde> so now she's a Mall-teaser
[12:46] <daveake> noooooooooooooooooooo
[12:46] <jonsowman> haha
[12:46] <daveake> Apparently there's one in Munich called "Boobs". Nice, simple. accurate (one assumes)
[12:46] <jonsowman> elaborately awful
[12:47] <fsphil> it stops being funny after eight
[12:47] <gonzo__> boot hits eroomde on back of nut
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[12:47] <eroomde> she had a sisters who's a vegetarian
[12:47] <daveake> Somewhere to take your curly wurly?
[12:47] <eroomde> she claims i we were introduced
[12:47] <eroomde> but i never met herbivore
[12:47] <daveake> stop
[12:47] <daveake> it
[12:47] <daveake> now
[12:47] <daveake> :)
[12:49] <fsphil> keep that up and someone will put a bounty on you
[12:49] <gonzo__> only if he tries to fudge the results
[12:50] <eroomde> if they get passed the security in my gated community
[12:50] <eroomde> they don't let anyone live there
[12:50] <eroomde> it's a quality street
[12:50] <gonzo__> That just takes the biscuit
[12:50] <fsphil> these guys are heros
[12:50] <daveake> I feel the need to breakaway
[12:50] Action: Elwell takes a break from all this nonsense
[12:51] <costyn_> what a plot twix
[12:51] <eroomde> yeah, we should sit back and stop all this now
[12:51] Action: jonsowman snickers
[12:51] <eroomde> relax, pour a bourbon
[12:52] <costyn_> I'm just going to be Lion here
[12:52] <gonzo__> that's nice
[12:52] <Elwell> do people have time for picnics at launch?
[12:52] <UpuWork> sure
[12:52] <UpuWork> unless its your first launch
[12:52] <UpuWork> then its PANNNNIIIICCCC
[12:53] <Darkside> we had a BBQ while waiting for a balloon to float back around
[12:53] <Darkside> beers and all
[12:53] <Darkside> then the balloon didn't burst
[12:53] <Darkside> so that was a bit shit
[12:53] <UpuWork> lol
[12:53] <costyn_> haha
[12:53] <Darkside> well, it burst, but quite a bit later
[12:53] <HixWork> Costyn - http://goo.gl/wyhYb datasheet for MC55
[12:54] <costyn_> HixWork: cheers
[12:54] <costyn_> will have a look
[12:54] <eroomde> jafa cakes dry out if u put them in biscuit tins
[12:55] <eroomde> but not inoffensively
[12:55] <HixWork> and AT instruction set http://goo.gl/wyhYb
[12:55] Nick change: costyn_ -> costyn
[12:55] <HixWork> am I safe from awful chaocolate based puns yet?
[12:56] <costyn> HixWork: I think we stopped, but eroomde hadn't stopped thinking about food yet
[12:57] <daveake> The internet will end before that happens
[12:58] <HixWork> he never does, I'm sure he has a part of his brain dedicated to purely food thinking, though some of it is under attack from the Salae plugging virus of late
[12:58] <jonsowman> i do spend a significant portion of my life thinking about food
[12:58] <HixWork> Salea
[12:58] <jonsowman> nearly
[12:58] <jonsowman> Saleae
[12:58] <daveake> Saleae
[12:58] <daveake> coo I remembered :)
[12:59] <jonsowman> nothing wrong with a bit of Saleae plugging
[12:59] <HixWork> Saline sail sale
[12:59] <fsphil> saliva
[12:59] <staylo> I see we're stictly back on Topic
[13:02] <eroomde> you bought one yet HixWork?
[13:04] <HixWork> not yet, though if i get shot of a load of expensive stuff that is sitting around not doing anything, I'll add it to the list of "to buy"
[13:04] <costyn> so, for a beginning electronics guy like myself, I assume a logic8 would be sufficient?
[13:04] <eroomde> hmm, the logic16 is sort of better
[13:04] <eroomde> for 2 reasons
[13:05] <HixWork> that's the theory, apart from the subversive only allow 16ch to work with 1.8v
[13:05] <daveake> At the risk of being on the sharp end of Ed's wrath, it's fine :)
[13:05] <costyn> the price difference between an 8 and a 16 is 100 euros...
[13:05] <eroomde> neither of which are really to do with the number of channels
[13:05] <costyn> daveake: :)
[13:05] <eroomde> but 1- the 16ch has a hardware buffer
[13:05] <eroomde> so you will definitely get eveything at higher speeds
[13:05] <eroomde> whereas on the 8 it can drop samples
[13:05] <eroomde> not such a problem for UART at 9600bps
[13:06] <eroomde> but more of a promblem say with 12MHz spi
[13:06] <daveake> All true indeed. So far I've not needed the 16. One day I shall jump to Ed's side of the fence, just not yet
[13:06] <eroomde> the other is the 1.8V as dave mentioned, which is becoming a very popular way of habbing
[13:06] <daveake> :)
[13:06] <costyn> eroomde: ok, thanks for that. Now I can make an informed decision :)
[13:06] <eroomde> i'm not needed to use 16channels yet either
[13:07] <eroomde> though actually i am doing some stuff with 16bit wide memory interfaces atm. but they're not really that complicated than i need to get a probe onto them
[13:07] <zyp> logic8 with it's 24MHz max is also on the border of too slow to capture 12MHz SPI
[13:07] <eroomde> in theory
[13:07] <eroomde> yes indeed
[13:07] <eroomde> you want about 4x the clock rate to sample, i think
[13:08] <eroomde> the higher speed thing i have definitely used many times
[13:08] <eroomde> eg for all the gps sampling stuff
[13:09] <zyp> we have some logic16s at work, I've used it a couple of times for 1.8V stuff
[13:09] <eroomde> and will be using it again soon for writing a faster full SD interface
[13:09] <zyp> and then I have a logic8 at home
[13:11] <eroomde> with either of them, the software is nice
[13:13] <costyn> what do you guys think of the cheap chinese copies: http://www.dfrobot.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=601
[13:14] <zyp> I think the original is cheap enough
[13:14] <zyp> and they deserve the money
[13:14] <eroomde> the salaea guys wrote a heartfelt plea on their site as to why you shouldn't buy clones
[13:15] <eroomde> it is just a 2-blokes operation trying to make a nice product
[13:15] <costyn> ok
[13:15] <costyn> wont buy cheap copy then :)
[13:16] <UpuWork> the original is a gorgous bit of kit
[13:16] <costyn> funny, buying it from a local shop is more expensive then buying it straight from saleae.com
[13:18] <eroomde> oh they have an sdk
[13:18] <joph> lol
[13:18] <joph> costyn, expensice chinese build
[13:18] <eroomde> so you can talk to the device directly and organise the bits as you wan
[13:18] <joph> and i wont speak from a copy
[13:18] <eroomde> that would be super useful for me
[13:18] <joph> it's just a dev board in a nice casing
[13:19] <joph> http://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#Logic_analyzers
[13:20] <joph> i see no problem there if you buy the chinese board and use sigrok
[13:20] <joph> and they didn't steal it - saleae just used a circuit which was nearly just the default setup for this IC
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[13:24] <costyn> joph: I had no idea there were so many :)
[13:26] <joph> probably you should buy the saleae item if you want to use their software
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[13:34] <eroomde> s'up zuph
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[13:50] <Elwell> oooh and theyre into sailing. Hard not to :-)
[13:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[13:59] <costyn> well that went rather well
[14:00] <costyn> far too reasonable and accurate
[14:00] <costyn> although he's still wrong about the bit that the picaxe doesn't need a programmer gadget
[14:01] <eroomde> oh jesus
[14:01] <eroomde> 'don't use a pickup truck'
[14:01] <eroomde> 'what about this ford pickup truck?'
[14:01] <costyn> hehe
[14:01] <costyn> Beaglebones don't have a good HAB track record either
[14:02] <eroomde> he doesn't understand the differences between the beaglebone and arduinos
[14:03] <eroomde> it's basically about 3 orders of magnitude in any meaningful metrix except size
[14:03] <eroomde> i just
[14:03] <eroomde> well whatever
[14:03] <HixWork> so. top tips for keeping pesky SMD parts in place until you've got the first couple of pins solederd to keep it in place?
[14:03] <eroomde> better things to do than debate with someone who doesn't understand the words he's using
[14:03] <costyn> eroomde: :)
[14:04] <eroomde> HixWork: pre-tin one of the pads
[14:04] <mattbrejza> what is it with him and gcc :/
[14:04] <eroomde> tack the smd part down onto that pre-tinned pad (that way you only need 2 hands - one for tweezers holding smd part, one for iron)
[14:04] <eroomde> then you're away
[14:04] <zyp> I was about to say the same as eroomde
[14:04] <HixWork> thinking more along the lines of the MAX6 eroomde
[14:04] <eroomde> same deal
[14:04] <HixWork> where you have the mousebite board
[14:05] <eroomde> you can use the same principle
[14:05] <HixWork> ok, i'll try it
[14:05] <eroomde> just get the pcb pad wet with solder
[14:05] <eroomde> not too much
[14:05] <eroomde> just enough to hold it when you remelt it when presenting the max6 and the iron tip
[14:05] <HixWork> the one thing i don't like with the ublox is the ESD shield and its proximity to the pads
[14:05] <zyp> preferably pick a pad that's not hooked to the gnd plane, it's easier to remelt
[14:05] <HixWork> its a big short sink
[14:05] <eroomde> then go around the other ones, i guess starting with the opposite corner, so it's contraint against twisted with thermal loads or whatever
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[14:08] <zyp> HixWork, good technique and good equipment makes that a non-issue
[14:09] <zyp> the trick is to put heat into the pad faster than it drains into the sink
[14:09] <eroomde> a good iron is money very well spent
[14:09] <eroomde> sod the saleae
[14:09] <fsphil> hakko?
[14:09] <eroomde> yep the 888 is good
[14:09] <HixWork> I wish soldering irons were a little shorter so the tip was nearer to the hand, like writing
[14:09] <fsphil> I keep hearing they are good
[14:09] <eroomde> or something like a 2nd hand weller wsd81
[14:09] <zyp> yeah, that's what I'm using
[14:09] <HixWork> I've got ayoyue 986
[14:10] <eroomde> that'll be fine
[14:10] <zyp> HixWork, soldering irons come in all sorts of lengths and sizes
[14:10] <fsphil> I've a maplin cheepy atm
[14:10] <HixWork> oops nop i havent
[14:11] <HixWork> 936
[14:11] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
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[14:31] <Elwell> daveake: 'add i2c uarts' -- is that something thats cost effective? (I had a need for some serial suff at last house)
[14:32] <mattbrejza> probably easier would be to add a digitial switch (mux), although that depends on application a bit more
[14:36] <daveake> Elwell Dunno just a suggestion never needed them. As mattbrejza says a mux may work depending on how the app works
[14:37] <mattbrejza> tbh you shouldnt really need that many serial ports, should use syncronous comms between components on a board
[14:38] <mattbrejza> exceptions are talking to a pc, and gps (so that you can connect the gps to a pc to see whats happening)
[14:38] <Elwell> this was connecting to a leccy meter and router
[14:39] <Elwell> gave up and moved house/continent
[14:39] <fsphil> dramatic
[14:39] <Elwell> drama llama says 'Drama!?'
[14:39] <mattbrejza> should have probably said exceptions are "external devices then"
[14:39] <mattbrejza> was more thinking hab
[14:40] <mattbrejza> but yea using a bit of external logic can avoid the need for pc104 boards
[14:42] <fsphil> raspberry pi would be a good serial<>ethernet interface :)
[14:44] <fsphil> annoyingly is cheaper than many avr<>ethernet interfaces
[14:44] <Elwell> fsphil: yeah. I was using a nanode but kept running out of stashes
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[14:45] <Elwell> even the cheapest avr+ethernet seems dearer than r-pi just now
[15:00] <daveake> Well yeah with the Pi I could easily do 3G and then equally easily do ftp uploads, batc, poke data into habitat etc
[15:01] <daveake> So once you have that extra capability you might as well use it :)
[15:02] <gonzo__> I wonder if the useable altitude for 3G could be improved with a directional antenna pointing down?
[15:03] <zyp> doesn't really help when the base station don't have an antenna pointing up
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[15:04] <gonzo__> gain at either end would increase the range, though depends if it's enough to be worth the effort
[15:04] <craag> You'd trade off chance of it connecting on the ground.
[15:04] <craag> Which was awesome.
[15:05] <gonzo__> The problem on gsm was also that the phone at altutude would see multiple bases
[15:05] <craag> And probably only get a few hundred m more alt, given how directional the masts are.
[15:05] <gonzo__> wonder if the 3g stuff sufferes that too
[15:05] <gonzo__> so gain and directionality could help
[15:06] <griffonbot> @ProjectBlast: Business Cards ready for this Saturdays Science Day... #UKHAS http://t.co/1iIYaluq3Y [http://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/312218163792187393]
[15:06] <craag> gonzo__: Are you thinking along the lines of a 3/4 wave whip?
[15:06] <craag> So gain lobes at 45 degrees down?
[15:06] <gonzo__> have a friend in the phone industry, will try asking for some antenna paterns
[15:07] <gonzo__> was thinking more like a 3 ele yagi
[15:07] <craag> It's going to have to be omnidirectional..
[15:07] <craag> Unless you are spin-stabilised!
[15:07] <gonzo__> nope, needs to point towards the base. Which will be down
[15:08] <daveake> I think a modest gain aerial at the bottom could help
[15:08] <daveake> If that last flight had reconnected in time to see the landing happen, I would probably have wet myself
[15:09] <gonzo__> so the yagi idea may risk your trousers
[15:09] <craag> Perhaps a quad loop, with a groundplane reflector above. Then you'd get a bit of signal out to the side for launch/landing as well.
[15:10] <gonzo__> the double quad is a useful ant. and would still be managenable at 2ghz
[15:11] <gonzo__> tin foil GP to keep the weight down
[15:11] <gonzo__> and the quad made from flexy wire with polystyrene supports
[15:11] <gonzo__> sounds doable
[15:12] <craag> It does. Getting a decent 3G dongle I think will be a big part as well.
[15:13] <gonzo__> i have no info on that side of things
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[15:13] <craag> Nah me neither..
[15:13] <craag> oooh, how good would 4G be at altitude I wonder.
[15:14] <gonzo__> coversage will be a few years away yet
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[15:14] <gonzo__> even gprs would be useable
[15:14] <craag> THere's a fair few towers in cities, but you'd probably run into guard interval-like issues with range.
[15:14] <gonzo__> though appatrentkly that may not be with us for long?
[15:15] <craag> They only switched off gsm internet a couple of years ago I think.
[15:16] <Laurenceb> http://lwn.net/Articles/542664/
[15:16] <gonzo__> the time div muxing onb gsm limited to 32km. Though some areas have extra time slots for long range. look at the coverage maps of the north sea. There are extra large hemispheres to cover the oil rigs
[15:16] <craag> Ah I see.
[15:18] <craag> Laurenceb: lol
[15:21] <craag> It would be so nice to fly ham radio gear. I'm looking at the 869MHz band because we could do more bandwidth with the whopping 0.5W!
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[15:41] <Elwell> dangit, all this TZ malarkey. I appear to be scrobbling radio tracks an hour out
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[16:49] <chrisstubbs> Hi guys
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[16:49] <chrisstubbs> got my SMD board programmed but the timing seems way out
[16:49] <fsphil> did you set your fuses?
[16:49] <fsphil> it could be running of the internal clock
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[16:50] <chrisstubbs> got a feeling the caps on my crystal are wrong as they all seem very mixed up at work
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> my boards.txt is set up for 8mhz in arduino IDE
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> i think that handles all the fuses for you
[16:51] <HixWork> i made a copy of the pro mini 8MHz
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> yeah thats exactly what i did Hix
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> and changed the mcu name to 168p (as thats what i have)
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> is there an easy way to check if the frequency is coming ok from the crystal, or if its eratic?
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> i have run the blink sketch with the delays at 10ms (50hz) and my frequency meter said somthing like 7.5hz output
[16:55] <gonzo__> I doubt that caps coul;d pull a xtal that far!
[16:56] <HixWork> cue eroomde with saleae sales pitch :)
[16:56] <gonzo__> is he on comission
[16:56] <HixWork> voltage stable?
[16:57] <HixWork> if he isn't he should be
[16:57] <chrisstubbs> should be stable. i have put a 100nf smd cap between output of regulator and gnd
[16:57] <mattbrejza> just put a scope on the crystal, if its being used by the avr itll be oscillating
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> will do that now marr
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> matt
[17:00] <gonzo__> linear regs (especially the 78x series) like some HF cap, like your 100nF and a resevoir cap, say a 47uF
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[17:02] <chrisstubbs> i use a TLV700033ddct
[17:02] <chrisstubbs> should probably read the dataseet :P
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[17:06] <chrisstubbs> right it expects a 1uf cap. maybe my 100nf just inst cutting it
[17:06] <chrisstubbs> crystal dosent appear to do anything on teh scope either
[17:06] <mattbrejza> fuses set wrong then
[17:07] <fsphil> yea, it's using the internal osscilator
[17:08] <gonzo__> the electrolitoc is to give some local energy storeage and the ceramic is to give HF decoupling
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> i see
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> was i supposed to test the crystal with the gnd clip one one side of the xtal and the scope probe on the other
[17:09] <chrisstubbs> or gnd to board gnd and probe to a pin of the crystal?
[17:10] <fsphil> proper ground
[17:10] <chrisstubbs> ok yeah still nothing
[17:11] <fsphil> when I did it last, one side of the crystal had a nice smooth sine wave, and the other was a bit distorted
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> just tested my smd breakout board (same setup, or so i thought) and that does indeed oscilate
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> must be a fuse/arduino config/circuit problem on the tracker board then
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> cheers for the help. time to have a think!
[17:12] <fsphil> if it was a circuit problem, I don't think the avr would be running at all
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[17:19] <chrisstubbs> the chips running fine, just looks like 1ms delay in code = 5ms delay on scope
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[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:23] <chrisstubbs> afternoon lunar
[17:26] <number10> what is your next project Lunar_Lander ?
[17:26] <Lunar_Lander> a weather station maybe
[17:27] <number10> ah thats a nice one to do - especially if you makeyour own anemometer
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[17:29] <eroomde> there's an irc channel for that, I beieve
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> what did work though is programming the atmega644P
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> which will be the CPU for the next balloon
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[17:31] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> well fuses are nice and straight forward ;)
[17:32] <chrisstubbs> would anyone be so kind as to give me a hand what i want? i have found this: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> or the calculator by Frank Zhao
[17:34] <chrisstubbs> do i want to divide my clock by 8?
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[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> no
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[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> as far as I understood that it means that with an 8 MHz quartz, the chip will only run at 1 MHz
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[17:35] <chrisstubbs> ok i will uncheck that
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> and make sure that you keep SPI on and also that the RESET pin keeps its functionality
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> at which voltage do you want to run it?
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> and which chip do you have?
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs
[17:37] <chrisstubbs> 3.3v lunar, im just doing a screen print of the config hang on
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[17:37] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/AvrFuses.png
[17:38] <jonsowman> no no no
[17:38] <jonsowman> stop
[17:38] <chrisstubbs> with an 8mhz external crystal, atmega168PA
[17:38] <chrisstubbs> stopped
[17:38] <jonsowman> you will brick it if you set those fuses
[17:38] <jonsowman> you want "full swing external crystal"
[17:38] <jonsowman> _not_ external oscillator
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[17:38] <jonsowman> what you have externally is a *crystal*
[17:38] <jonsowman> not an oscillator
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> well today I programmed my atmega644 which has a quartz on it
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> I used the external oscillator thing and it works
[17:39] <jonsowman> oh really?
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:40] <chrisstubbs> jonsowman, 258ck / 1k / 16k ?
[17:40] <jonsowman> selecting "ext xtal oscillator" means it will expect a clock input on one of its pins
[17:40] <jonsowman> there's stuff about it in the datasheet
[17:41] <jonsowman> chrisstubbs: the rest looks ok
[17:41] <chrisstubbs> jonsowman, do i need to disable the div 8 checkbox like lunar said?
[17:41] <Upu> what are you trying to do chrisstubbs ?
[17:41] <jonsowman> chrisstubbs: yeah, that's fine
[17:41] <Upu> what chip is it ?
[17:41] <jonsowman> let it run at the xtal frequency
[17:42] <chrisstubbs> atmega168pa
[17:42] <Upu> arduino boot loader ?
[17:42] <chrisstubbs> thats the plan upu, but i need to but it on using ISP first right?
[17:42] <Upu> those fuse calculators are just confusing
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> what is important
[17:43] <Upu> for a 3.3Mhz Arduino
[17:43] <Upu> with an 8Mhz external clock
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> can you see the SPI Enable which is ticked?
[17:43] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.low_fuses=0xFF
[17:43] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDA
[17:43] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x05
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> 3.3mhz or 3.3v?
[17:43] <Upu> sorry
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> he means voltr
[17:43] <Upu> 3.3V
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> -r
[17:43] <Upu> 8Mhz
[17:43] <chrisstubbs> ok cheers
[17:43] <Upu> just copy the settings from boards.txt
[17:44] <Upu> and get the ATMEL Studio
[17:45] <jonsowman> ok so actually what the calc means by "external crystal osc" is "low power external osc"
[17:45] <jonsowman> because ???
[17:46] <Upu> no idea but the fuse calculator just confuses the crap out of me
[17:46] <jonsowman> so yes, the one you selected will work Lunar_Lander
[17:46] <Upu> ATMEL Studio its much clearer
[17:46] <jonsowman> personally I use "full swing"
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> downloading atmel studio now
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh btw
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> oh yay its only 800mb
[17:47] <jonsowman> 'full swing' is probably still the one to go for
[17:47] <jonsowman> unless you have a reason not to
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> if you want to use avrdude, the drivers from the atmel studio prevent that
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> so it will screw up the arduino ide?
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> it seems like it yea
[17:48] Action: chrisstubbs boots virtual machine
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> which programmer do you have?
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> at the moment im using the "Arduino as ISP" setup
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> with a 3v3 level converter
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> its just serial ports, so it should be fine i think
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> well I got an avrispmkII and someone in the arduino forums said that it needs this driver to work http://mightyohm.com/blog/2010/09/avrisp-mkii-libusb-drivers-for-windows-7-vista-x64/
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:50] <chrisstubbs> i should be ok then
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[18:11] <cuddykid> got everything out and ready to put props on the hexacopter, then I realised the silly screws required some tiny allen key :(
[18:22] <chrisstubbs> atmel studio is still installing. going for dinner now bbl :)
[18:28] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: why the 644p?
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> because it has more memory, two UARTs and comes in a DIP package
[18:29] <fsphil> you might want to consider the 324p
[18:29] <fsphil> same but with less memory
[18:30] <fsphil> cause really you don't need that much
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:31] <fsphil> I recently measured how much my own payload was using with the aprs, rtty, ssdv and sensors. it was small enough to fit into the 324p
[18:31] <fsphil> that said, if the 644p is the same price. why not :)
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> and the 1284P? XD
[18:32] <fsphil> the xmega is cheaper
[18:32] <fsphil> well some of them are
[18:34] <Laurenceb> STM32
[18:34] <fsphil> not as easy to develop for yet
[18:34] <Laurenceb> inb4 zyp
[18:36] <fsphil> international Pi day is sort of reliant on the US date format
[18:36] <fsphil> although works in yyyy/mm/dd too
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[18:42] <eroomde> i just built dl-fldigi from source, grabbed ten minutes ago
[18:42] <eroomde> but am getting a popup complaining it's not up to date
[18:43] <fsphil> the method for detecting new versions is not great
[18:43] <fsphil> git commit ID I believe
[18:44] <eroomde> != to a given ID?
[18:44] <fsphil> I think so
[18:44] <eroomde> guess comparisons between hashes would be a neat trick
[18:44] <eroomde> nvm
[18:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: having said that I don't think you should be getting that
[18:45] <Randomskk> what source did you get from and what commit ID are you using?
[18:46] <DanielRichman> the method for update checking is a HTTP GET to a url
[18:47] <DanielRichman> with comparing hashes or some stuff in mind
[18:47] <Randomskk> unless you've made a commit on top of your checkout I don't think you should be getting that popup
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[18:47] <DanielRichman> however I was too lazy to import git; or whatever. So at the moment it is just string comparison (not !=, it's if blah in [list of acceptable things])
[18:48] <DanielRichman> but doing the above was with the ability to implement sexy git version comparison in mind
[18:48] <eroomde> i've not commited ontop of my checkout for sure
[18:48] <Randomskk> where'd you get it from and what ID then?
[18:48] <eroomde> clone, configure, make
[18:48] <eroomde> head of james' github
[18:48] <Randomskk> there's your first problem
[18:49] <DanielRichman> /dl-fldigi-check?commit=4df21eb54445e9c962b6116ae37a178bc8799500&platform=linux <-- this is you
[18:49] <DanielRichman> it is currently looking for 2abd6a72a331577cb71da9083f25031e3828edec
[18:49] <DanielRichman> ah yes
[18:49] <eroomde> 4df21eb5
[18:49] <DanielRichman> 2abd6a7 is my head
[18:49] <eroomde> yeah
[18:49] <DanielRichman> one commit ahead
[18:49] <DanielRichman> merely an 'update the submodule' thing
[18:49] <DanielRichman> I'll submit a pullreq
[18:50] <Randomskk> though still a whole DL release
[18:50] <Randomskk> not a compatible change iirc, isn't this where we changed the flight view format
[18:50] <DanielRichman> very possibly
[18:51] <eroomde> could you change it to do a quantitatve comparison on the tagged version number?
[18:51] <Randomskk> that'd be harder than just searching the github commit tree probably
[18:51] <Randomskk> easy enough once you load the git library to see if the current commit is a child of the head
[18:51] <Randomskk> but in this case I note it was correct: your version is out of date
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[18:53] <eroomde> how can i fix it?
[18:54] <DanielRichman> until james acts on the pullreq; git pull https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi.git master should be sufficient
[18:54] Action: DanielRichman bbl
[18:54] <eroomde> ta
[18:54] <eroomde> will wait for now
[18:54] <eroomde> just want to poke in the guts a bit
[18:54] <DanielRichman> oh god
[18:55] <DanielRichman> are you sure you want to do that
[18:55] <eroomde> not so much the dl part
[18:55] <Randomskk> even worse
[18:55] <fsphil> I think that's what he meant :)
[18:55] <daveake> run away
[18:55] <DanielRichman> hey, the habitat-cpp-connector submodule is even unit tested
[18:55] <DanielRichman> it is the vanilla fldigi bit you want to be scared of
[18:56] <eroomde> well, the alternative is arecord and numpy :)
[18:56] <eroomde> (playing with FEC)
[18:56] <Randomskk> arecord and numpy sounds a muuuuch happier solution
[18:56] <Randomskk> though why arecord
[18:56] <eroomde> it's happier for development for sure
[18:56] <Randomskk> there exists like pyaudio and stuff
[18:56] <DanielRichman> if you're losing the will to live, etc., have a poke around in src/qrunner/ and see if you can work out why that was even written
[18:56] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[18:56] <eroomde> just want to see what it would tak to bake in
[18:56] <eroomde> i daren't look at this ^
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[18:57] <eroomde> somebody else read it first and tell me if it's ok
[18:57] <DanielRichman> humm, I think I mean a different file
[18:57] <Randomskk> eroomde: don't bother
[18:57] <Randomskk> k bbl
[18:57] <DanielRichman> maybe include/threads or qrunner/fqueue.h
[18:57] <DanielRichman> it's... I don't know
[18:57] <daveake> ed, do yourself a favour, go and poke around in fldigi :)
[18:57] Action: DanielRichman bbl also
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> back :)
[19:00] <chrisstubbs> upu atmel studio is installed
[19:01] <fsphil> poke it with a long stick
[19:01] <Upu> Tools -> Device Programming
[19:01] <Upu> type the device in
[19:01] <Upu> ATMEGA168p
[19:01] <Upu> click fuses
[19:01] <Upu> then read
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[19:03] <chrisstubbs> ok thats done
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> read the datasheet?
[19:04] <eroomde> well, maybe MikeB can come onto IRC to answer all the picaxe questions
[19:04] <jonsowman> that would be entertaining
[19:05] <Upu> </IRC emote for raised eye>
[19:05] <jonsowman> should have closed the email thread at MikeB's first email
[19:05] <Upu> chrisstubbs you can read them and write them there
[19:05] <jonsowman> off topic and pointless
[19:05] <eroomde> or we just change the banner to say 'only ask picaxe question on the picaxe forums'
[19:06] <fsphil> do we get picaxe questions?
[19:06] <eroomde> in between the questions about how to tie your own shoe laces and how to cross the road
[19:06] <fsphil> I don't remember any
[19:06] <Upu> oh he posted again
[19:06] <eroomde> no, this is in response to the suggestion that we suggest picaxe to newbies
[19:07] <Upu> I think well close that thread now
[19:07] <eroomde> adam is done
[19:07] <eroomde> ville
[19:07] <Upu> Given its mutated so far from the original post
[19:07] <jonsowman> yes Upu, I'm regretting not doing it earlier
[19:08] <eroomde> it might shut itself
[19:08] Action: LazyLeopard decides it's time to try digging "Cracking the Code" out of the depths of iPlayer...
[19:09] <Upu> oh yay :)
[19:09] <eroomde> mybe we could have a fire and dragons mailing list
[19:09] <daveake> I wondered if PICAXE does interrupts. You know, so rtty can be done in the b/g as the HAB gods intended. It does. It does them by polling.
[19:09] <eroomde> for fruitless but fun keyboard bashers
[19:10] <eroomde> picaxe is dire
[19:10] <eroomde> seriously
[19:10] <eroomde> i had to use it once for a year or so
[19:10] <eroomde> it's unforgivable
[19:10] <eroomde> people who say it's good are simply unaware
[19:10] <eroomde> imagine you never saw a car
[19:10] <daveake> It's a Trabant?
[19:10] <eroomde> and someone gave you a mower with a deskchair attached to the back via a length of rope
[19:11] <eroomde> and you said 'it works! it gets me from a to b!'
[19:11] <jonsowman> too many people are on 'always allowed to post' as well
[19:11] <eroomde> and were quite happy in your world of not knowing about cars
[19:11] <jonsowman> we reset everyone a while bake
[19:11] <LazyLeopard> That thread is but a pale wanna-be compared to the Heatsink thread on the KX3 group...
[19:11] <jonsowman> *back
[19:11] Action: jonsowman is thinking about food again
[19:11] <eroomde> and someone said 'but look, over here we have cars'
[19:12] <eroomde> and you said 'no! i don't want to know! this is adequate!'
[19:12] <eroomde> that's what picaxe people are like
[19:12] <eroomde> .
[19:12] <LazyLeopard> Who'd a thunk heatsinks could be such a flaming hot topic... ;)
[19:12] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, nice analogy ;)
[19:12] <eroomde> it's because it's based on cars
[19:12] <daveake> Some people think Blue Nun is a jolly nice wine
[19:13] <LazyLeopard> :)
[19:13] <eroomde> steering a rant of mine onto wine
[19:13] <eroomde> bad idea
[19:13] <daveake> lol
[19:13] <chrisstubbs> ok upu afaik i cant read from my chip as i only have the "arduino as ISP" programmer. can i just bash in the fuses you sent me? :P
[19:13] <Upu> sure
[19:13] <chrisstubbs> will it destroy teh atmega168p ?
[19:13] <eroomde> i think i should have a special list permissions setting just for me
[19:14] <eroomde> always alloud
[19:14] <Upu> nope worst thing that will happen is you screw up the fuses and need a proper programmer to recover it
[19:14] <Upu> if you clock it too slow or something
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> ok, lets give it a go!
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[19:34] <chrisstubbs> well its not bricked, but still nothing from the crystal on the scope and the timings still wrong :/
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> any other ideas? :)
[19:35] <jonsowman> what timing is wrong?
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[19:38] <chrisstubbs> for example if i do the blink sketch with delay 10, the length of each HIGH on the scope is 40ms
[19:38] <jonsowman> does it scale like that?
[19:38] <jonsowman> e.g. is a delay of 20 turned into 80?
[19:39] <jonsowman> are you using _delay_ms() ?
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> 10ms = 45ms oscilloscope time
[19:40] <jonsowman> interesting that it's not an even multiple
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> just delay()
[19:40] <jonsowman> try the above function from util/delay.h
[19:41] <jonsowman> make sure F_CPU is defined
[19:41] <jonsowman> to be your clock frequency in Hz
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> yeah its right
[19:42] <jonsowman> good
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> the odd thing is the same programming setup works fine for another board of mine, with the same chip, frequency and voltage
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> which makes me think its the caps/crystal on this board
[19:43] <jonsowman> providing it's the frequency you think it is and the caps are in the right ballpark it should be ok
[19:43] <jonsowman> links to the xtal and caps?
[19:43] <jonsowman> (is it a custom board?)
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> yeah its self etched
[19:44] <jonsowman> link to schematic as well svp
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> the caps should have been 22pf, but they were all mixed up at work and may be wrong
[19:44] <jonsowman> i would expect the oscillator to run or not at all really
[19:45] <jonsowman> it would be weird to get it running at the wrong frequency, especially one lower than the design freq
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> unless upu send me the wrong crystal?
[19:45] <jonsowman> also probably unlikely
[19:45] <jonsowman> they normally say their frequency on the package somewhere
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> A080E2C
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> yeah they normally say like 8.0000
[19:46] <jonsowman> yes
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[19:47] <chrisstubbs> jonsowman, http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/sch.png
[19:47] <jonsowman> looks fine
[19:51] <jonsowman> bbl
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> cheers for the help jonsowman
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[20:08] <chrisstubbs> FIXED
[20:09] <chrisstubbs> well there is an output on the clock now
[20:09] <chrisstubbs> turns out that only happens if you upload the arduino bootloader
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[20:18] Nick change: jol02 -> jolo2
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[20:34] <cuddykid> hey RocketBoy
[20:35] <cuddykid> what's your stock levels like for Hwoyee 1000g? Think they will go fast?
[20:36] <arko> jonsowman: going to be doing a dry run (driving payload around town) tuesday 8pm PST. Anyway to get the us aprs system routed over to spacenear
[20:36] <arko> ?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[20:37] <arko> The team will be tracking with their own stations, but i wanted them to get experience checking the updated predictions
[20:45] <RocketBoy> cuddykid - should last a few weeks I expect - in any event re-stocking should be less problematic now the Chinese are all back off hols
[20:45] <cuddykid> good stuff, cheers
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[21:25] <domlin> ahoyhoy
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, why don't you have the KCI-2000 and 3000 anymore?
[21:27] <RocketBoy> well two related reasons - they are expensive - and people rarely buy them
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[21:28] <RocketBoy> the 3000 worths out about 450euro
[21:28] <RocketBoy> works
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> domlin, it looks terrible (becuase i ripped the land off for the capacitors accidently) but it transmits :D http://flic.kr/p/e3htdQ
[21:28] <RocketBoy> and the 2000 not much less
[21:29] <domlin> doesnt look too bad from a distance
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[21:30] <domlin> and if i squint
[21:30] <domlin> without my glasses
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[21:32] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, ohhh
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> is the hwoyee 2000 comparable to the kaymont version?
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> domlin aha yeah well the total build cost for $$CHEAPO so far is £7,50
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, xD!
[21:35] <domlin> not too bad!
[21:35] <domlin> shall we use carrier bags instead of a balloon?
[21:36] <chrisstubbs> tbh we could use a bin liner
[21:36] <domlin> or a wheelie bin with enough helium
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[21:42] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: well the necks are different sizes (T2000 5cm, H2000 = 8cm) but the burst sizes are similar (T = 10.5m H = 11.0m)
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I doub't we will need such a balloon size
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> but it is good to ask :)
[21:46] <RocketBoy> looks like your cutdown worked ok on your flight - any pics of it?
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah I got a test video
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moK2NHj16_Q&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=3
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[22:00] <RocketBoy> cool - the old nicrome wire trick
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[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> worked good
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[22:50] <AdamDynamic> Hi, Can anyone recommend an SDR dongle that i can buy in the UK?
[22:50] <daveake> paging UpuWork
[22:50] <Upu> yep
[22:50] <daveake> -Work
[22:50] <Upu> I stopped selling them
[22:50] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[22:50] <Upu> I just updated that today
[22:50] <Upu> there is a link to this :
[22:50] <Upu> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=288
[22:50] <Upu> works fine
[22:51] <Upu> hey costyn jsut finished watching the Hak5 video of your launch, was well done and the guy asked sensible questions
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[22:52] <Upu> I'm going to work out how to retrofit them with bias-T 5V injector
[22:52] <Upu> at some point
[22:52] <AdamDynamic> Ok great, thanks.
[22:53] <Upu> night
[22:53] <AdamDynamic> There's a new product that seems to be available in the UKHAS shop, a booster PCB for SDR dongles, I don't suppose you're able to tell me whether I could use that with the dongle in the link?
[22:55] <daveake> HABAmp? Yes you can. Speak to Upu about power options
[22:56] <JMH_> #xxxyyyzzz
[22:57] <AdamDynamic> Am I right in thinking that using that PCB booster would make an SDR dongle suitable for tracking a 'real' flight?
[22:57] <AdamDynamic> Or is that still to be tested?
[22:57] <Upu> you can but it all depends on your antenna
[22:57] <Upu> location etc
[22:58] <Upu> I need to log as I'm up early in the morning but if you pm me your mail address I'll send you a more detailed answer
[22:58] <Upu> anyway I'm really gone this time .. night!
[22:59] <daveake> nn
[22:59] <AdamDynamic> Stupid question, how do I PM someone?
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[23:03] <mfa298> AdamDynamic: likely to depend on your client but "/msg <nick> message" is likely to work on most
[23:04] <AdamDynamic> Ah ok, I'll give that a try, thanks!
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[23:06] <mfa298> if you want to test it feel free to send a quick message to me and I'll respond if it works
[23:07] <AdamDynamic> When I try I get a message saying "No such nick.channel: <mfa298>"
[23:08] <AdamDynamic> *nick/channel
[23:08] <mfa298> you don't need the <> around the nick
[23:09] <mfa298> sorry, that's a standard way I've come accross for documenting something to replace
[23:09] <nigelvh> Seconded
[23:10] <AdamDynamic> Did my test message get through?
[23:10] <mfa298> AdamDynamic: yes, you should have seen a short reply "That works"
[23:11] <mfa298> your client should have opened a new tab or similar to show the private chat
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[23:11] <AdamDynamic> Ah, I see the seperate tab at the top, many thanks! I'll ping Upu a message now...
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[23:50] <fsphil> costyn: just watched the hak5 vid, that was great
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 15 2013