highaltitude.log.20130310

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[00:06] <JaJa> evening boys and girls, just a quick one if anyone is still awake
[00:06] <chrisstubbs> just ;)
[00:07] <JaJa> on habsupplies it says to jump on IRC before ordering the NTX2s to talk about ordering options. is that just to make sure UK folk buy the 434s?
[00:07] <Darkside> yes
[00:07] <Darkside> 434.650 or 434.075
[00:08] <NigeyS> .650 tends to have less QRM
[00:08] Action: NigeyS throws a ublox 6 at Darkside :P
[00:08] <JaJa> awesome. didn't think there was anything else that could change looking at datasheets, thought it best to jump in and ask before clicking the button
[00:09] <JaJa> QRM?
[00:09] <mfa298> I think levels of QRM can vary depending on where you are.
[00:09] <NigeyS> noise..
[00:09] <mfa298> QRM - Man made interference
[00:10] <JaJa> ahh
[00:10] <JaJa> thanks all
[00:10] <mfa298> .650 is a repeater input frequency so can have noise from that depending on where you are.
[00:10] <Randomskk> JaJa: if you can wait a day or so Upu might have a privmsg for you
[00:10] <fsphil> yea there's another reason you might want to wait
[00:12] <JaJa> other than the usual case of 'must-have-it-now' i can wait!
[00:12] <fsphil> oh I get that all the time
[00:14] <JaJa> the only cure is a credit card and express shipping
[00:15] <fsphil> or no credit card and hiding in a cave :)
[00:16] <Randomskk> I'm struggling with that and a new CPU and motherboard right now >_>
[00:16] <Randomskk> could get it all by tuesday
[00:16] <fsphil> my 5 year old quad core is still faster than I need
[00:17] <NigeyS> Randomskk, do it !
[00:17] <Randomskk> my 3 year old quad core gets maxed out on fairly regular occasion
[00:17] <Randomskk> and the new one would be a really nice bit faster
[00:17] <Randomskk> also USB3 would be handy for things
[00:18] <JaJa> ebuyer are rock solid for that. nothing like buying all your parts at 11pm and having them arrive next day for 9am
[00:18] <Randomskk> exactly
[00:19] <Randomskk> sadly the motherboard is in the slower warehouse so it'd be tuesday
[00:19] <fsphil> ebayer charge too much for postage to BT*
[00:19] <Randomskk> the cpu and cpu cooler would be here monday
[00:19] <fsphil> ebuyer*
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> BT*=?
[00:20] <Randomskk> belfast?
[00:20] <fsphil> bt postcode
[00:20] <fsphil> covers all of NI
[00:21] <fsphil> ebuyer: free postage, free postage, look you get free postage... [orders]... oh wait, £12 postage
[00:21] <NigeyS> novatech are pretty good too
[00:22] Action: mfa298 gets even quicker parts from novatech, but they are only 20mins down the motorway
[00:23] <mfa298> otherwise I tend to use scan/ebuyer
[00:23] <fsphil> I used to like aria, but they don't have a huge selection
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:24] <mfa298> i have had the issue with novatech that I don't want to waste the trip so I look at nevada radio as well.
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[00:24] <fsphil> hah
[00:24] <fsphil> expensive
[00:25] <fsphil> I was in an astronomy shop a while back, and I didn't see anything under £200
[00:26] <fsphil> most of the stuff was £1000 or more
[00:26] <fsphil> scary what people pay for a hobby :)
[00:26] <mfa298> mostly I end up buying cable/ connectors/ adapters. But they still add up.
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[00:26] <JaJa> *hides his telescopes*
[00:27] <fsphil> plural :)
[00:27] <JaJa> well you can't just have one!
[00:27] <fsphil> true
[00:27] <JaJa> cassegrain for planets, dob/newt for deep space =p
[00:27] <NigeyS> which cas ?
[00:28] <fsphil> I saw jupiter through a dob earlier this year, amazing
[00:28] <fsphil> weirdly my best view of jupiter was through a small refractor
[00:28] <JaJa> skymax 150
[00:30] <NigeyS> http://www.f1telescopes.co.uk/shop.php?id=2747&level=
[00:31] <NigeyS> yes pls !
[00:31] <arko> :O
[00:31] <arko> woah
[00:31] <arko> want
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[00:32] Action: fsphil looks at the price
[00:32] <arko> i could buy a few usrp's with that
[00:32] <arko> :P
[00:32] <arko> maybe a car
[00:33] <NigeyS> this was fun until i sold it :/
[00:33] <arko> and pizza
[00:33] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFEOZ5NRIeI&feature=share&list=UUQHc1S_ak-XdTaJIIw2WAMw
[00:33] <jonsowman> mm pizza
[00:33] <jonsowman> </useful input>
[00:34] Action: NigeyS steals jonsowman's pizza
[00:34] <jonsowman> noo
[00:34] <NigeyS> nom nom nom :p
[00:34] <jonsowman> /ban NigeyS
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[00:34] <NigeyS> omg :(
[00:34] <arko> dude, you don't take another dude's pizza
[00:34] Action: NigeyS rings dominos!
[00:34] <fsphil> you had an proper scopt mount and everything
[00:35] <fsphil> scope
[00:35] <NigeyS> i was just borrowing it !
[00:35] <jonsowman> lol
[00:35] <arko> haha
[00:35] <NigeyS> yuhu phil
[00:35] <fsphil> mine's just the al/ez mount
[00:35] <arko> woot, building a colinear antenna tomorrow
[00:35] <jonsowman> nice arko
[00:35] <NigeyS> oh this was the cg5 goto mount, weighed a frikkin ton!
[00:35] <jonsowman> good luck & take pictures
[00:35] <arko> will do
[00:35] <arko> gonna document it
[00:35] <arko> should be easy
[00:35] <NigeyS> the cgem wouldve been better but stupidly expensive
[00:35] <fsphil> the al/ez is rubbish for long exposures
[00:36] <fsphil> but vastly cheaper
[00:36] <jonsowman> arko: what coax are you using?
[00:36] <NigeyS> yup, you need tracking, the cg5 etc have 8 levels of sidereal tracking for LE photography
[00:36] <arko> rg-59
[00:37] <nigelvh> isn't rg-59 a 75ohm coax?
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[00:37] <jonsowman> yeah it is
[00:37] <arko> oh crap
[00:37] <jonsowman> do you mean rg-58?
[00:37] <arko> 58
[00:37] <arko> sorry
[00:37] <arko> yeah
[00:37] <arko> 50ohm
[00:37] <jonsowman> cool
[00:37] <nigelvh> Yes, 58 is 50 ohm
[00:37] <jonsowman> I've got so much rg-58
[00:38] <jonsowman> I ordered 2 metres from ebay and they sent me a 100m roll
[00:38] <arko> nice
[00:38] <jonsowman> for about £3
[00:38] <arko> nice!
[00:38] <jonsowman> dunno what to do with it all
[00:38] <fsphil> ... I need some RF58 now that you mention it :)
[00:38] <fsphil> er
[00:38] <NigeyS> haha
[00:38] <arko> make some colinear antennas!
[00:38] <jonsowman> maybe I'll make a collinear using your instructions arko
[00:38] <fsphil> RG58
[00:38] <jonsowman> fsphil: remind me next week and I'll post you some
[00:38] <jonsowman> (it's at home and I'm at uni at the mo)
[00:39] <fsphil> nah, I'm half kidding. I've got enough cable but it's in two parts
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[00:39] <jonsowman> well if you want some, let me know
[00:39] <jonsowman> I've used about 2% of it in 4 years
[00:39] <arko> i want an rf connector cable poster
[00:39] <arko> with all the specs
[00:40] <jonsowman> that would be great
[00:40] <nigelvh> arko, keep in mind RG58's losses at 70cm, so avoid using a long runner.
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[00:40] <arko> oh, we are on 2meter
[00:40] <arko> aprs
[00:40] <jonsowman> arko: not great but http://www.mtl-inst.com/images/uploads/datasheets/posters/MTL%20Wireless%20Poster.pdf
[00:40] <nigelvh> Better, but still some losses.
[00:41] <jonsowman> aha, better:
[00:41] <jonsowman> http://docmesure.free.fr/manuels/anritsu/Anritsu_RF_uW_Poster_No1.pdf
[00:41] <fsphil> ahhh, loving firefox's pdf renderer
[00:41] <arko> aww but no pictures
[00:41] <arko> like connectors and cables
[00:41] <arko> i like the first one though
[00:41] <jonsowman> yeah neither of them are great
[00:42] <arko> o well
[00:42] <jonsowman> make one :)
[00:42] <arko> haha
[00:42] <arko> if only there was time
[00:43] <NigeyS> meh reboooooot :/
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[00:43] <jonsowman> time is always the issue
[00:46] <mfa298> only 4 years for having your rg-58, I tink I bought my reel around 15 years ago
[00:46] <jonsowman> heh
[00:46] <jonsowman> I would have been 7
[00:46] <jonsowman> wasn't that into RF at that point in time
[00:46] <jonsowman> more ice cream and lego
[00:46] <mfa298> I bought it for networking in uni halls
[00:46] <nigelvh> I've got a reel of double shielding RG-316 which is nice for short runs and sma connectors.
[00:46] <fsphil> lego was awesome
[00:47] <mfa298> only was ?
[00:47] <fsphil> some of the boxes they sell today are too narrow
[00:48] <mfa298> I still have my box of lego, not that it gets used these days
[00:48] <fsphil> you build what they have in the picture
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[01:13] <russss> I got dropped off the channel, did we see this yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ivr6JF1K-8#!
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[01:14] <Randomskk> russss: oh haha that's excellent
[01:15] <russss> yeah that was yesterday's test
[01:15] <Darkside> I prefer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzgRVUGTK1o
[01:15] <Darkside> but anyway
[01:15] <Randomskk> the legs appear to be a bit on fire in that descent
[01:15] <russss> heh
[01:15] <Darkside> very cool test
[01:16] <arko> do you guys do cold tests for your habs often?
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[01:46] <arko> woot
[01:46] <arko> ordered a hanging scale for the balloon and payload measurements before launch
[01:46] <arko> :)
[01:47] <Randomskk> good plan :D
[01:47] <arko> want to get as close as possible to the cusf predictor as possible
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> and remember
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> the lift of a balloon in a crosswind is not zero
[01:49] <arko> yep
[01:49] <arko> so it will measure higher in wind
[01:50] <arko> gonna do best guess when winds are calm
[01:50] <arko> hopefully it will be a calm day, but we wont know until we are there
[01:54] <arko> :/
[01:55] <arko> heh or lower
[01:55] <arko> freakin balloons
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[05:53] <arko> oh yeah, dst today
[05:53] <arko> uggg
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[07:42] <fsphil> burn it
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[08:08] <arko> burn what?
[08:11] <fsphil> DST
[08:11] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:11] <fsphil> morning jcoxon
[08:11] <fsphil> we have snow here. yays
[08:13] <jcoxon> eek
[08:13] <fsphil> just a few cm
[08:14] <jcoxon> forecast for here later on
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[08:29] <Upu> morning
[08:29] <Upu> we have snow here too annoyingly
[08:29] <fsphil> suspect you have more
[08:29] <Upu> don't want it
[08:29] <Upu> its the 30kmph winds that are cold
[08:30] <Upu> far from Pico launching weather
[08:30] <Upu> UKHAS f?cked over again..
[08:31] <fsphil> traditional launch weather for me
[08:33] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March - Walsall, UK"
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[08:36] <number10> snow here as well
[08:36] <Upu> well they just earnt themselves a place on my firewalls shitlist
[08:37] <number10> what happened with ukhas - someone edit it?
[08:37] <Upu> yeah another spammer
[08:37] <Upu> however same IP as the previous 2
[08:37] <Upu> so just blocked the IP at the permiter firewall
[08:38] <fsphil> ah the wiki
[08:39] <fsphil> does the software support any kind of account validation? allow registration but no edits until verified?
[08:39] <number10> i was thinking, there is a page "up and coming launches" dave has some html that displays the calender.. could be useful to have there
[08:40] <Upu> I think it does
[08:40] <Upu> we have Recapta on there
[08:41] <Upu> I think we decided not to go any further with the authentication
[08:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March -
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[09:23] <daveake> Oh dear - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BE09aUUCcAApaSU.jpg:large
[09:23] <Darkside> hahaha
[09:25] Action: Upu starts singing the theme from Team America
[09:26] <fsphil> that can't be real
[09:26] <fsphil> or the author having a joke
[09:26] <daveake> I saw it on Twitter what more proof do you need? :p
[09:26] <fsphil> I hope it's real!
[10:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March -
[10:06] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March -
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[10:32] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4322dc762e15953b953067a88f544d644060cf2c
[10:32] <cuddykid> touch and go atm
[10:33] <cuddykid> got a reasonably light payload and will just put the whole tank of helium in - plus it's a pawan so will probably burst early
[10:33] <daveake> try a smaller balloon
[10:33] <fsphil> http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/ hah
[10:33] <cuddykid> daveake: haven't got one unfortunately
[10:34] <cuddykid> and RocketBoy is out of most
[10:34] <daveake> buy one? :)
[10:34] <daveake> oh
[10:34] <cuddykid> ah, actually he has 800g hwoyee in stock
[10:35] <cuddykid> that might do - just need to finalise payload weight
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[10:35] <daveake> 6m/s 29km sorted
[10:35] <fsphil> I've got a 600g in case he doesn't get any in stock before my notam expires
[10:35] <fsphil> not sure if anyone's tried floating such a small balloon
[10:35] <daveake> Not that I know of
[10:36] <cuddykid> I'll pop the whole helium canister in the 800g - that should do it
[10:38] <daveake> 2kg lift above the payload weight - it'll shift :)
[10:38] <fsphil> yikes
[10:43] <Elwell> re the '4/10 majority' thing -- can't find source (always a bad sign)
[10:43] <Elwell> but there was a survey in 2004/5
[10:43] <Elwell> http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/degrees-of-freedom/2011/10/15/we-hate-math-say-4-in-10-a-majority-of-americans/
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[11:28] <fsphil> so very cold
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[11:51] <fsphil> first accurate use of the term 'edge of space': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21730887
[11:51] <fsphil> also very cool
[11:55] <daveake> nice
[12:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March -
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[12:11] <Tramvai> Good afternoon
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[12:28] <daveake> Afternoon
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[12:35] <domlin> hello all
[12:37] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
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[12:39] <chrisstubbs> hi Hix
[12:39] <Hix> g'day
[12:40] <chrisstubbs> Started soldering those boards up this morning
[12:41] <chrisstubbs> nothing to be proud of, they look a mess! :(
[12:41] <Hix> heh, my soldering looks a bit agricultural at times :)
[12:42] <chrisstubbs> waiting on the ublox neo 6, crystals and regulators before i can see if it all works or not
[12:42] <chrisstubbs> looks ok on the continuity meter
[12:43] <Hix> yeah, know the feeling, my boards still not arrived, seem like its been months now
[12:43] <Hix> though not looking forward to the GSM connector 0.2mm pins on .5mm pitch
[12:44] <chrisstubbs> jeez
[12:44] <Hix> tell me about it
[12:45] <chrisstubbs> i think im going to condense my tracker and SSDV layouts onto one board before i get them hackvana'd. two birds with one stone
[12:46] <Hix> i've kept it at two boards to avoid interference from the GSM, but the modules are tiny so 2x 50mm^2 boards
[12:46] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/SPrOoti.jpg
[12:47] <chrisstubbs> i do not like the look of that thing haha
[12:48] <Hix> not too bad once i've done the header, thinking of bringing it in to work and using hot air
[12:48] <chrisstubbs> sounds like a better idea!
[12:48] <chrisstubbs> what do you do again?
[12:48] <Hix> as little as possible :)
[12:48] <Hix> CAD monkey in automotive
[12:48] <Hix> here's the GSM board http://i.imgur.com/y8Hsln7.png
[12:49] <chrisstubbs> A CAD worker doing as little as possible. how odd
[12:49] <chrisstubbs> cough domlin cough
[12:49] <daveake> CAD = Can't be Arsed to Do anything ?
[12:50] <chrisstubbs> lol
[12:50] <Hix> http://goo.gl/5alc6
[12:50] <Hix> Cry as Desk
[12:51] <Hix> http://goo.gl/eJqi2 a true CAD monkey classic
[12:51] <chrisstubbs> Hix is that board just like a breakout for the GSM?
[12:51] <domlin> hello, i'm a CAD monkey!
[12:52] <Hix> yeah - got a load of MC55 modules so figured might as well use em
[12:52] <Hix> greetings domlin
[12:52] <domlin> hello Hix :)
[12:52] <chrisstubbs> Cool
[12:53] <Hix> what sort of stuff are you working on domlin ?
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[12:54] <domlin_> woopsie.
[12:54] <domlin_> mainly working on testing jigs
[12:55] <Hix> Solidoworks?
[12:55] <Hix> always type that wrong
[12:55] <Hix> sound slike the japanese version
[12:55] <domlin_> haha, Nah I use AutoCad, inventor, and PRO E
[12:56] <Hix> i feel for you with ACAD :)
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[12:56] <domlin_> :p that's the easiest one
[12:56] Nick change: domlin_ -> domlin
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[12:57] <chrisstubbs> our CAD lecturer insists of doing his spreadhseets in ACAD
[12:57] <chrisstubbs> its quite funny to watch
[12:57] <Hix> Pro/E is quite nice, not really used it in a while though, pretty much all Catia these days
[12:58] <Hix> ahh saw you mentioning that the other day :) what a numpty
[12:58] <domlin> oh, yeah that guy is erm... useless
[12:58] <chrisstubbs> looks kinda like the PGtips monkeh
[12:58] <Hix> yeah, think it was one
[13:00] <chrisstubbs> Hix just googled the MC55
[13:00] <chrisstubbs> the moto smartphone?
[13:01] <Hix> ah no, siemens MC55 module
[13:01] <Hix> this http://goo.gl/V14NM
[13:02] <Hix> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/54078.pdf
[13:02] <chrisstubbs> Just found the one
[13:03] <Hix> never even thought about sending a HABFax - that would be retro )
[13:03] <chrisstubbs> yeah you dont want to be home etching the lands for that connector
[13:03] <Hix> heh]
[13:03] <chrisstubbs> is it bad i just had the same thought
[13:03] <chrisstubbs> send the photos back via GSM fac
[13:03] <chrisstubbs> fax
[13:04] <daveake> Convert the image to ASCII then send as a series of lines by SMS
[13:04] <Hix> GPRS would be cool to upload to habitat when on the ground, but i'm noway near being able to code that up
[13:04] <Hix> GPRS for location, i'm thinnking
[13:04] <Hix> I'm sure timzaman did it last year
[13:05] <Hix> amongst his other amusing stuff
[13:05] <chrisstubbs> is it just serial AT commands for texting over that module?
[13:05] <Hix> yup
[13:05] <domlin> stick a polaroid camera up there
[13:05] <daveake> I've done it, by sending the telemetry string as a message to a phone at home plugged into a PC
[13:05] <domlin> let is just print the pictures and they will fall back to land
[13:06] <Hix> it should be possible to upload the data from the module itself though shouldnt it daveake
[13:06] <Hix> using GPRS connnection
[13:06] <daveake> Sure, but you need a web connection to you need to run PPP
[13:07] <daveake> All doable but will be fun on bare metal
[13:07] <Hix> PPP? point to point protocol?
[13:07] <daveake> Yup
[13:07] <daveake> A few AT commands to send an SMS = easy
[13:08] <Hix> hmm the sms spec states: Point-to-point MO and MT
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> daveake the pi/3g photo upload thing worked pretty well
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> did you do it all in python?
[13:09] <daveake> The photo upload over 3G didn't work, as that was supposed to happen after landing, and as it rebooted on landing it didn't know it had landed :p
[13:10] <chrisstubbs> oh
[13:11] <chrisstubbs> bloody pi
[13:12] <daveake> nah, probably he batteries bounced against the springs in the holders
[13:12] <chrisstubbs> im just thinking of the SSDV. Some nice photos anyway
[13:13] <daveake> Ah yes that worked really well
[13:13] <daveake> And the batc link sprung into life once 3G reconnected - that was amagic moment for me
[13:14] <daveake> Next Pi flight will use the Pi camera and I'm going to push the picture size up
[13:14] <chrisstubbs> awesome, try and get it to float over the essex way and i will have a go at decoding
[13:14] <chrisstubbs> Did i see you won the first camera made or somthing?
[13:14] <Hix> I was thinking of getting some of the shrink film that RC packs use for the flight batteries, thatd stop anything like that happening i think
[13:15] <daveake> No, but I got #18 and #20 from the pre-production batch of 70
[13:15] <chrisstubbs> result
[13:16] <chrisstubbs> and that goes in the little white flat ribbon connector socket? cant remember the proper name
[13:16] <daveake> CSI port
[13:16] <daveake> It's the one next to the LAN socket. Well it would be but this is a model A board and it has no such socket :)
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[13:19] <chrisstubbs> Hix that sounds like it could work
[13:19] <chrisstubbs> or some massive heat shrink
[13:19] <chrisstubbs> camera well earned daveake. must have put a lot of hard work into getting all this working
[13:19] <Hix> the film stuff should be good, thinking of the vibration RC cars offroad are subjected to
[13:22] <Hix> just fired up Notepad++ it's pretty nice for coding, opensource too which is a rarity for win applications
[13:24] <dharnke> can i get any info on where i can buy helium gas in the uk?
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> that worked...
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> http://balloonhelium.co.uk/
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> cheapest place i found
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> there is BOC too
[13:25] <Hix> dharnke: http://goo.gl/vYkgH
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> consider hydrogen too
[13:25] <Hix> oh, chrisstubbs beat me to it
[13:26] <chrisstubbs> hydrogen is nice if you fancy investing in the regulator. BOC quoted about £200 for me though :( Worthwhile if you are doing regular flights
[13:26] <Hix> turns out I've got access to a free 3.6m3 cylinder as and when i want it WIN!!!
[13:27] <chrisstubbs> hix h2 or he?
[13:27] <Hix> He
[13:27] <chrisstubbs> lucky sod
[13:27] <Hix> yup, impressed with that
[13:27] <chrisstubbs> me and domlin have been trying to chat to the guy that does gasses and stuff at our place but not heard anything back yet
[13:28] <chrisstubbs> they only deal with 1.8m ones though afaik
[13:28] <Hix> if they have an account, they could prob just order one in for you, you'd get a decent rate too i imagine
[13:28] Action: SpeedEvil looks again at his source of 50p/m^3 lift gas.
[13:29] <dharnke> i see thanks
[13:29] <Hix> speaking of BOC, does anyone know the thread on the low pressure side of the He regulator? where the flexi balloon filler screws in?
[13:29] <chrisstubbs> the problem they had was us taking it off site
[13:29] <chrisstubbs> let me just break out the book hix
[13:29] <domlin> chrisstubbs: cant we use nitrogen
[13:29] <daveake> not much lift
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> you could use oxygen
[13:29] <chrisstubbs> domlin might work for your deep sea exploration
[13:30] <daveake> ditto
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> in principle
[13:30] <Hix> you can if you want to stay on the ground domlin
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> #lowaltitude
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> nitrogen has negative lift
[13:30] <domlin> :P
[13:30] <Hix> typical CADMonkey ;p
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> but natural gas - heating - is not insane
[13:30] <daveake> Cannot Ascend only Descends
[13:30] <domlin> I only ask because we have access to a huge amount of it
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> yes, it's half the density of air.
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> Hix 3/8 inch RH thread
[13:31] <Hix> nice is that BSPT?
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> but it's also £1/kg of lift
[13:31] <chrisstubbs> you would think so. dosent say in the catalouge
[13:32] <Hix> hmm, got a link to a pdf at all?
[13:32] <chrisstubbs> i have their paper industrial producsts book
[13:32] <chrisstubbs> there is a stupid flash version of it online
[13:33] <Hix> I was thinking about machining up an attachemnt so the flow-stop valve was at the neck to facilitate easier filling with accuracy, it'd make stirks easier too
[13:33] <Hix> ahh, bugger. I'll email them from work
[13:33] <chrisstubbs> http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/products-and-supply/industrial-catalogue/index.html
[13:33] <chrisstubbs> if you press the PDF download button it just downloads the page around the flash iframey thing
[13:34] <Hix> weird, i just hit that same page as you pinged me
[13:35] <chrisstubbs> Speedevil, could get a bit more lift with the oxygen if you went 50/50 with some H2 as well
[13:36] <daveake> Yes that could go up
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[13:40] <Hix> heh
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen and chlorine for autocutdowns in night launches
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[13:43] <domlin> Hix: talking of me being a CADMonkey, during training I usually just created things like this
[13:43] <domlin> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-AFdMqCIAI7abI.jpg
[13:44] <Hix> heh, nice areo styling domlin :)
[13:44] <domlin> haha thank you
[13:45] <Hix> I'd show you a screengrab of a car surface model, but I think i'd be liable to some serious court action if i ever made it public
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[13:46] <chrisstubbs> craag are you about?
[13:47] <craag> chrisstubbs: I am, good afternoon.
[13:47] <domlin> haha
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[13:47] <domlin> do you mainly do auto related work then Hix ?
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> okaaaay
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> it's currently just stopped hailing really hard
[13:48] <chrisstubbs> craag i saw your pi conrtolled gamon thing
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> and there is an ice cream van playing tunes
[13:48] <chrisstubbs> should have called it PorkPi
[13:48] <craag> chrisstubbs: lol
[13:48] <Hix> pretty much exclusively domlin http://i.imgur.com/R8qvncH.png
[13:49] <Hix> thats ancient so safe
[13:49] <domlin> oh wow
[13:49] <domlin> any specific manafacturers?
[13:49] <Hix> i can't remember ;p
[13:49] <craag> Yeah, I'll be fishing it out in a couple of hours.
[13:50] <craag> Very much looking forward to it :D
[13:50] <chrisstubbs> lol
[13:50] <Hix> is it just me or does this not load? http://goo.gl/Z9yMn
[13:50] <chrisstubbs> do you have the link to hand? its the kind of thing that will make domlins day haha
[13:50] <chrisstubbs> Hix loaded
[13:51] <Hix> it'll be my shite connection then 3mins and counting
[13:51] <chrisstubbs> lol what do you wanna know
[13:51] <chrisstubbs> the threads?
[13:51] <Hix> yeah
[13:51] <craag> chrisstubbs: Live Temp: http://sousvide.thecraag.com:8910/
[13:51] <craag> Photo: https://twitter.com/thecraag/status/310462275330904064/photo/1
[13:52] <chrisstubbs> the photo is priceless
[13:52] <Hix> craag, you need a jettle http://goo.gl/wDgaV
[13:52] <chrisstubbs> Hix the valve outlets are BSP
[13:52] <chrisstubbs> let me find the regulator
[13:53] <chrisstubbs> reg isnt on there :/
[13:54] <Hix> 3/8" BSP sounds like it's correct
[13:54] <domlin> wait
[13:54] <domlin> theres ham in the kettle?
[13:55] <craag> Hix: Wow
[13:55] <craag> domlin: Yes, a 700g gammon joint.
[13:55] <domlin> craag: you've made my day
[13:55] <Hix> craag: it's the nuts no?
[13:56] <domlin> ah I love colin furze, sky stole him didnt they
[13:56] <craag> Hix: It is indeed.
[13:56] <Hix> the best bit is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-fDM9Eb16Do#t=244s
[13:57] <craag> Yep. I've made tea with a parcan lamp once, that worked well.
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[13:58] <craag> 1KW parcan lamp, didn't take long at all!
[13:59] <Hix> has the geofence sample been removed from the wiki? Can't find it, only Upu's UK and continental posts
[14:00] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/APRS_Projects/tree/master/Pico92
[14:00] <Upu> or down Project Swift github
[14:00] <Upu> or down James Coxons github
[14:00] <Hix> got it http://ukhas.org.uk/code:uk_polygon?s[]=polygon
[14:01] <Upu> yup
[14:02] <Hix> oh wow, cheers Upu, thats a hell of a lot of info to be digging around in, weeks worth of learning there, cheers
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[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Alternative food prep is neat.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I prepared some apples once, using only solar energy.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Well, when I say prepared, it was my tree.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> As an aside - free body diagrams are awesome
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[14:52] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March - Walsall, UK"
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[15:05] Nick change: Sierra005 -> Sierra004
[15:08] <mattbrejza> cheaper rfm22b alternative: http://dx.com/p/diy-cc1101-433mhz-wireless-transceiver-module-for-arduino-green-2-pcs-149251
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[15:19] <joph> mattbrejza, have a look at nrf24l01
[15:20] <bertrik> nrf24l01 is on a completely different band (2.4 GHz)
[15:22] <joph> yeah, but also transmitter
[15:22] <joph> for ballons of course not useful
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[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> hey lunar
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> hey there people I'm not Bobby Brown
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> I may not be the cutest boy in town
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> but I'm Lunar_Lander and see what I've done
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> I sent a balloon to 22.5 kilometers!
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> brb
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[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[15:29] <chrisstubbs> Well its a good job i checked my code was actually putting the ublox into nav mode :P
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[15:38] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
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[15:40] <cuddykid> odd - I know this is a little of topic but any electronics help would be appreciated! On my power dist board (for hexacopter), there is a resistance of ~100K between + and - .. it's always slowly increasing too when I measure it. Anyone think that's normal? Or have I destroyed it in my soldering attempt :P
[15:41] <zyp> sounds like a capacitor
[15:41] <bertrik> sounds like a capacitor charging up from the measuring current :)
[15:41] <mfa298_3g> I'd agree with zyp
[15:41] <cuddykid> hm
[15:41] <bertrik> nothing to worry about
[15:41] <zyp> it's pulling a current to charge, which decreases as it fills up
[15:42] <cuddykid> no power though - only multimeter on ohm-meter setting
[15:42] <daveake> That is the power
[15:43] <cuddykid> gotya
[15:43] <cuddykid> brill
[15:43] <cuddykid> thought I had f'ed it up monumentally as my soldering is beyond terrible
[15:43] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, dont worry its been one of those days haha
[15:44] <cuddykid> :D
[15:45] <cuddykid> I have inhaled enough solder fumes to last me a life time in the past hour
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, http://flic.kr/p/e23hH8
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> i made such a mess of that TQFP
[15:46] <chrisstubbs> looks a bit better with the flux cleaned up
[15:46] <cuddykid> not as bad as my soldering! haha
[15:46] <cuddykid> is that a home made pcb?
[15:46] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[15:46] <chrisstubbs> with my kapton taoe toner transfer method
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> this board came out a little worse than the last, the toner went all streaky
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> still not sure if kapton is actually any better than magazine paper as of yet. my first board with is was quite nice
[15:47] <cuddykid> nice
[15:50] <chrisstubbs> forgot to break out the reset pin. looks like i will be using a probe on the TQFP pin to program ;)
[15:51] <cuddykid> fun times
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> how is the copter coming along?
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[16:05] Action: mfa298_3g appears to be having weird internet issues.
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[16:05] <mfa298_3g> I can only ping addresses where the last number is odd (from a limited test)
[16:11] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: not too bad - biggest hurdle has hopefully been overcome (soldering) - got the frame made now
[16:11] <cuddykid> just need to wire up motors + escs etc
[16:11] <cuddykid> then wait for radio control to arrive from china :)
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[16:12] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, sweet! FPV?
[16:13] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: not yet, on the "to buy list" though!
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[16:13] <cuddykid> many things are on my to buy list however :/
[16:13] <cuddykid> oh that's not good.. just checked the tracking number hobby king gave me.. destination country = "US"
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> ah
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> If upu about?
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> *is
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[17:30] <jdtanner> Evening all.
[17:32] <jdtanner> I've got a headscratcher if anyone fancies a pop? Can anyone foresee a problem not padding a temperature value with leading zeros when passing a temperature to a transmit buffer? e.g. " 7.23" rather than "+07.23"
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[17:36] <chrisstubbs> jdtanner, im not sure it matters as habitat can deal with that
[17:36] <chrisstubbs> however im not 100%
[17:36] <jdtanner> Yeah, I thought it could. My checksum should catch any errors. I'm just a bit of a pedant when it comes to formatting :)
[17:36] <mfa298> about the only thing I can think of where you might have a problem is if something was keeping it as text and then tried sorting it.
[17:36] <mfa298> but that seems unlikely
[17:37] <mfa298> I think other people have sent temps without any padding with no issues
[17:38] <jdtanner> It would help if arduino supported sprintf for floats...hey ho
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[17:40] <chrisstubbs> jdtanner, yeah all mine just get converted to strings :P
[17:40] <chrisstubbs> awful coding practice
[17:40] <jdtanner> dtostrf
[17:40] <jdtanner> :)
[17:41] <jdtanner> But I like nicely formatting numbers...meh. :)
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[17:43] <jdtanner> http://josh.to/silvia/rebuilding-the-arduino-ide-to-support-sprintf-with-floats/ seems to be the solution!
[17:43] <jdtanner> A bit OTT tbh
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[17:56] <Sierra004> lol the front of ukhas has gone all crazy it would seem
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[17:58] <chrisstubbs> ah man. what the hell
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[17:59] <Tramvai> Hello, question about HAB cameras, are there any cheap alternatives to GoPro sports cameras?
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[18:00] <Tramvai> I understand that people tend to prefer Canon Powershots with CHDK, but what about video recording?
[18:00] <Tramvai> But what about video?
[18:00] <Sierra004> I'm using a canon powershot a810 for my soon to be first flight
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> canons can do video
[18:01] <Sierra004> it runs off AA's so you can deck it out with lithiums
[18:01] <Tramvai> Yeah, but VGA isn't too good
[18:01] <Tramvai> And shaking on digital cameras will be a problem, as far as I know.
[18:01] <Morseman> Methinks www.ukhas.org.uk has been hacked... "start.txt · Last modified: 2013/03/10 17:08 by aakiley921"
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[18:02] <Sierra004> my a810 will do 720p, close enough to HD but I have yet to fly it so...
[18:02] <mfa298> probably spammers rather than hacked
[18:02] <Tramvai> I'm checking the local pawn stores for cameras, just trying to find out what to look for
[18:02] <Sierra004> The impressive you receive when taking GenF20 will be manufactured under the guidelines this can specified from the Food and Drug Administration. Apparently!
[18:02] <Tramvai> Oh, you record with the A810, Sierra?
[18:02] <Morseman> Do spammers advertise gruesome surgical routines often?
[18:02] <craag> ukhas fixed.
[18:02] <Tramvai> Or take pictures?
[18:02] <Sierra004> Yeah, well thats the plan anyway
[18:02] <Tramvai> Alright.
[18:03] <Sierra004> gearing up to my first flight but have a look at the specs
[18:03] <Tramvai> Okay, one pawn store hasit for 58¬
[18:03] <Sierra004> I got mine for £40 on ebay
[18:03] <Tramvai> Pretty much the same price, nice.
[18:03] <Sierra004> so 45ish Euro's
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[18:04] <Sierra004> I think I paid closer to 50 Euro's so yeah thats not bad, there are other cameras out there but that one seemed great for a first go.
[18:08] <Sierra004> It can handle HDXC cards too so its high capacity
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[18:11] <Sierra004> SDXC sorry
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[18:14] <Tramvai> Hmm
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[18:33] <Tramvai> Thinking of trying the chinese HD keychain cameras
[18:34] <Tramvai> They do pretty good video for 25¬
[18:34] <craag> Tramvai: Is this for a hab flight?
[18:34] <Tramvai> Yes
[18:34] <gonzo___> 25?! Last ones we brought were £8 each
[18:34] <craag> Incase you haven't heard, they can jam gps.
[18:35] <craag> 25 isn't bad for the HD ones.
[18:35] <Tramvai> 808 #16
[18:35] <craag> Yep, that one's the one I got.
[18:35] <Tramvai> Thanks for the information.
[18:35] <Tramvai> Oh, and does it jam GPS?
[18:35] <craag> They can do, and have done on previous flights.
[18:36] <craag> I flew a #16 on a pico flight and it was fine.
[18:36] <craag> But I did plenty of testing with the gps antenna no top of the running camera.
[18:36] <craag> *on top
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> Im going to try the tin-foil wrap method with my 808. At this rate it looks like im flying 3 trackers so there is a bit of redundancy!
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[18:37] <craag> chrisstubbs: Also if you can physically space them a bit, that'll help.
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[18:37] <chrisstubbs> thats the plan :)
[18:38] <chrisstubbs> my main tracker had screwed up since i put the flight mode code in, wont get a fix :(
[18:38] <craag> And if you take the code out again?
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[18:39] <chrisstubbs> Will try that now!
[18:40] <Broliv> Evening all
[18:40] <Tramvai> Thanks for the info, Craag.
[18:40] <craag> It's a good idea if something strange happens, to revert to previously-known-working code, that way you can check it's actually to do with the change you just made and not something like a dodgy contact.
[18:41] <craag> Tramvai: No problem :)
[18:42] <chrisstubbs> craag took the nav mode setting bit out and it got a fix straight away!
[18:42] <craag> hmm, ok. It shouldn't take much longer to get a fix in flight mode.
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> also sometimes it would just stop transmitting if it did get a fix
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> sometimes after the first string ti got a fix, sometimes longer
[18:44] <craag> GPS is a bit like that, it will give you very variable fix times especially indoors.
[18:44] <craag> And at the launch site of course :P
[18:44] <chrisstubbs> i think the reason it was hanging was i didnt put a delay between changing the baudrate and setting flight mode
[18:45] <craag> Ah.. any particular reason you are changing the baudrate?
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> from upus code. im using softwareserial so i crank it down to 4800
[18:46] <craag> Oh software serial. I haven't used that.
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> :/
[18:47] <chrisstubbs> wish i had designed the board to use hardware
[18:47] <chrisstubbs> seemed to work perfectly before though
[18:47] <craag> I've been changing the baudrate to 19200 for my 1hz code.
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> might be worth leaving the baudrate at 9600
[18:48] <craag> I did [gps command to change baudrate], [delay 400ms], [change arduino baudrate], [next gps command]
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> do some experimentation
[18:49] <craag> Have you got any sort of delay like that ^^
[18:49] <chrisstubbs> i do:
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> [change gps baudrate] [change arduino baudrate] [delay 1000]
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> then set nav mode
[18:50] <craag> That's from upu's code?
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> mostly, but bodged into tinygps
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> it seems to be working fine w/o navmode
[18:51] <craag> software serial and tinygps :|
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> lets try putting it back in
[18:51] <craag> yeah try that.
[18:51] <craag> Disconnect the power for a bit after programming it, and give it a good couple of minutes to try to get a lock.
[18:52] <chrisstubbs> lol its buggered
[18:52] <chrisstubbs> reading ACk response failed
[18:52] <chrisstubbs> i will try power cycling it
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> oh it passed in the end
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> upon restarting it passed ACK first time. but still no fix
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[19:18] <Sierra004> Oh project, y u no work?
[19:18] <Sierra004> I'm convinced I'm being an idiot with my hardware set up
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[19:24] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:24] <Sierra004> When you guys connect up your gps and transmitters are you decoupling your earth?
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[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Sierra004, you should have a capacitor accross your voltage input (or regulator output)
[19:32] <craag> lots of capacitors is good.
[19:32] <Ciemon> :)
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> I havent bothered putting more caps in around each device, however im sure it will do no harm
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[19:32] <chrisstubbs> only good :)
[19:33] <Hiena> And a strong low pass filter on the transmitters power line.
[19:33] <craag> my tracker PCBs have 8x 0.1uF caps.
[19:34] <Hiena> Not to mention the star point grounds and the ground loop check.
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> time to break out ucenter
[19:34] <craag> chrisstubbs: That's a good plan actually.
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> i would hope you can set navmode in there
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> and see if it works that way
[19:36] <Sierra004> I posted alot on the mailing list but it doesn't seem to be up yet
[19:36] <craag> I would use it to monitor the RX from the GPS as your board starts up.
[19:36] <Sierra004> When I'm fiddling around with it the RTTY is really distorted and nasty
[19:36] <craag> you can see if it's not seeing any sats at all, or just on the edge.
[19:36] <Sierra004> I accidentally yanked the 5v out of my gps and it was coming through great for 3 seconds before the gps powered down
[19:37] <craag> Sierra004: It's moderated, so may be a little while before someone takes a lool.
[19:37] <craag> *look
[19:37] <craag> Hmm
[19:37] <fsphil> only some emails get lol'ed
[19:37] <craag> fsphil: Indeed :P
[19:37] <Sierra004> Yeah thats cool I thought it might be a while before they get the green light
[19:38] <Sierra004> my gps as far as I can tell is working fine
[19:38] <craag> Sierra004: What are you using for a power supply?
[19:38] <Sierra004> I've booted it several times and killed all but the important stuff
[19:38] <Sierra004> well at the minute I'm just powering from the arduino usb
[19:39] <craag> For the transmitter and GPS as well?
[19:39] <Sierra004> yeah
[19:40] <Sierra004> Uhh tried briefly to run the gps off a 5v I have
[19:40] <craag> I'm wondering if you're pulling too much current for the USB to provide a stable voltage. Is it the NTX2 transmitter?
[19:40] <Sierra004> well variable power supply
[19:40] <Sierra004> and I got packet order failure on the gps
[19:41] <Sierra004> Yeah I thought that too, that maybe its just pulling too much current.
[19:41] <Sierra004> So you suggest capacitors on 5v and GND?
[19:42] <Sierra004> or just ground?
[19:42] <fsphil> between them
[19:42] <fsphil> 5v to ground
[19:42] <craag> A capacitor between 5v and ground might help.
[19:42] <Sierra004> derp yeah sorry
[19:43] <craag> What arduino model are you using?
[19:43] <Sierra004> uno r3
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[19:45] <Upu> evening all
[19:45] <fsphil> nin'
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> Hey upu
[19:45] <Upu> ping cuddykid not forgotten about your PCB just not had chance to look at it yet
[19:45] <Upu> hey there
[19:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Dunville "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[19:45] <Sierra004> lol thats me
[19:46] <cuddykid> hey Upu - no worries, there's no rush :)
[19:46] <Upu> Anytime before Wednesday huh ?:)
[19:47] <Hiena> Sierra004: Use a several, different capacitor parallel on the power and the ground. The parallel 100uF, 1uF, 100nF, 1nF is a good start. The reason is to cut the parasitic inductance of the capacitors. Each value fiter different frequency range on the power line. Also placing smaller (1-100nF) values near the modules helps the talcback situations.
[19:49] <Sierra004> Ok still in parallel with 5v and GND at the modules?
[19:49] <Tramvai> Hey, as a board for a balloon, should I go for Arduino Mega or Uno? (Assuming these are the common options)
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[19:50] <Upu> Uno or smaller
[19:50] <Upu> Mega is generally over the top
[19:50] <Upu> Arduino Mini
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[19:50] <Tramvai> Alright, thanks
[19:50] <Hiena> Sierra004: Yes.
[19:51] <Upu> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardProMini
[19:51] <Upu> but prototype it on the Uni
[19:51] <Tramvai> I'm opting for this one
[19:51] <Tramvai> http://dx.com/p/120464
[19:51] <Upu> my advice is pay the extra and get the genuine board
[19:51] <Upu> thats a copy
[19:52] <Tramvai> I'm aware of that
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[19:52] <Sierra004> Hiena: Ok thanks, looks like I'll have to go shopping since my bits pot has nothing close to that.
[19:52] <Tramvai> But accorrding to 80 reviews, it does the job.
[19:52] <Upu> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/arduino-revision-p-583.html
[19:52] <Upu> up to you
[19:53] <Tramvai> I am assuming the software works for the copy as well
[19:53] <Tramvai> As none of the reviewers had complaints
[19:53] <eroomde> shame it's deliberately tring to knock it off though
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[19:54] <Tramvai> China.
[19:54] <eroomde> yup
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[19:55] <Tramvai> Thank you, Upu. :)
[19:55] <Upu> the real boards use good quality components and you could fly it fine
[19:56] <Upu> the copies may
[19:56] <Upu> may
[19:56] <Upu> use capacitors etc that aren't rated to such lower temps
[19:56] <Upu> and may die
[19:56] <Upu> but will be fine for development I suspect
[19:57] <Sierra004> From what I can tell the code I have spliced together seems fine its just my hardware set up that is to blame, if I yank the GPS 5v line then it does nice RTTY for a bit then stops when its capacitors drain
[19:57] <Tramvai> You scare me, Upu
[19:57] <Upu> not scaring you
[19:57] <Upu> just telling you as it is
[19:57] <Upu> the Chinese rarely select components based on performance
[19:57] <Upu> not for knock offs anyway
[19:57] <Upu> all I'm saying is don't fly it
[19:58] <Upu> may be no difference I don't know
[19:58] <Upu> We know the RFM22B modules have issues with lower temperatures
[19:58] <Upu> but we use them anyway
[19:58] <eroomde> they should do a milspace, rad-hard arduino
[19:58] <eroomde> milspec*
[20:00] <Upu> they do auto spec ones :
[20:00] <Upu> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/automotive_avr.aspx
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> that just crossed my mind
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> what if a cosmic ray hits the CPU and the arduino fails?
[20:01] <Upu> depends how it fails
[20:01] <Upu> what it does I suspect
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[20:03] <chrisstubbs> craag i figured out how to set the nav mode in ucenter and it works after i set it
[20:03] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: i think you just answered your question
[20:03] <Sierra004> What were those de-coupling capacitor values again? 100u, 1n ,1u, 100n?
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> looks like its my awful code thats the problem then hah
[20:03] <eroomde> in the question
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, i.e. it won't happen?
[20:03] <eroomde> no
[20:04] <eroomde> 20:00 < Lunar_Lander> what if a cosmic ray hits the CPU and the arduino fails?
[20:04] <eroomde> A: the arduino fails
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> well yea
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> and the mission is lost
[20:04] <eroomde> yep
[20:04] <Upu> wouldn't be the first time
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> cosmic ray failure?
[20:04] <eroomde> there are different kinds of cosmic ray failures
[20:04] <fsphil> well the cosmic ray succeeded
[20:04] <eroomde> and they can hit different bits of the core
[20:05] <eroomde> some you can mitigate against, others not
[20:05] <daveake> good job most of them fail
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:05] <eroomde> a watchdog is probably the best simple thing you can do
[20:05] <Upu> Thats something I need to implement in my code
[20:05] <daveake> Or make the tracker from valves </OdP>
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[20:06] <Upu> you know what happens when you make silly suggestions like that daveake :)
[20:06] <eroomde> it's worth doing. easier to have something reset safe (write your code so that's ok) than to try and actively mitigate against any possible failure
[20:07] <daveake> I know what happens when you make them Upu :p
[20:07] <Upu> lol
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:08] <eroomde> 'i have included my hardware setup'
[20:08] <eroomde> in jpg format
[20:08] <eroomde> sigh
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[20:13] <Sierra004> Mailing list?
[20:17] <Sierra004> Sorry
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> buttcoin.org/
[20:27] <Ciemon> :D
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Upu could you please explain how to check if the ublox is in flight mode?
[20:30] <mattbrejza> if you connect the gps tx to a usb->sreial stick youll see the ack
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> Do you know if you can do it through ucenter?
[20:31] <mattbrejza> yea thats probably best as you can then see what it actually replies with
[20:31] <mattbrejza> (easily)
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> i must be doing somthing totally wrong
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> i am setting airborne mode using the messages window
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> ubx>cfg>nav
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> but no sign of anything ACk related on the text console
[20:34] <mattbrejza> both serial connections good?
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> Im getting data ok
[20:34] <mattbrejza> if you hit refresh at the top it asks the gps for the current settings
[20:34] <mattbrejza> and i thik it provides a timer to show how old the data is
[20:35] <mattbrejza> you might be getting data fine, but perhaps not sending it fine
[20:35] <mattbrejza> also i think theres cfg and cfg v5 or somthing
[20:35] <mattbrejza> both having flight modes in
[20:35] <mattbrejza> and you want the secord
[20:35] <mattbrejza> second
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> NAV1 NAV2 and NAV5?
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> NAV1/NAV sorry
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> i cant see this refresh button
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[20:36] <mattbrejza> i dont have it installed atm so i cant help that much
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> ah ok
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> no worries
[20:37] <mattbrejza> the flight mode you want is in a drop down box rather than a tick box
[20:38] <chrisstubbs> does the ublox save the nav mode when the power is lost? or does it reset?
[20:38] <mattbrejza> its list
[20:38] <mattbrejza> lost
[20:39] <mattbrejza> unless you have the version that allows you to attach an external eeprom (which you probably wont)
[20:39] <chrisstubbs> nope just upus 5v modules
[20:40] <Sierra004> back-up battery?
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> no backup bettery
[20:40] <mattbrejza> just write the flight config every few strings
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[20:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Atherton "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
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[21:06] <chrisstubbs> I will never understand GPS
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[21:06] <chrisstubbs> think i need to look at this with fresh eyes tommorow
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, I thought the same
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> but I succeeded :)
[21:08] <NigeyS> chrisstubbs, it can get alot more complicated ..... https://github.com/nigeyuk/Microchu/blob/master/gps.c
[21:08] <eroomde> i might do a thing on understanding gps
[21:09] <eroomde> maybe a talk
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah actually GPS works by exploiting the relativity principle
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:09] <eroomde> [havign read scollback]
[21:09] <NigeyS> eroomde, would be very welcome i think :)
[21:09] <eroomde> i misunderstood
[21:09] <NigeyS> evening kev
[21:09] <eroomde> i mean understanding gps, like how the system works
[21:09] <eroomde> rather than battles with the ublox api
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> i would find that very helpful
[21:09] <NigeyS> heh it's all just clocks ? :p
[21:10] <chrisstubbs> it was all going so well until i tried to put it into flight mode now it just wont get a fix :P
[21:10] <eroomde> i have a suspicion that in a 1 hour slot you could write a software gps receiver (in numpy) from scratch
[21:10] <eroomde> as you go along explaining it
[21:10] <eroomde> that might make a fun workshop session
[21:10] <NigeyS> dont put it into mode 3 until you have a fix :)
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:11] <chrisstubbs> mode 3 being flight mode?
[21:11] <NigeyS> yup
[21:12] <mattbrejza> only really needed for testing though
[21:12] <mattbrejza> what happens if it resets in the air?
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Why does upu do it on setup() ?
[21:12] <chrisstubbs> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[21:12] <mattbrejza> itll try to get a fix while not in flight mode
[21:13] <Sierra004> Is that good or bad?
[21:13] <mattbrejza> well if its >18km bad
[21:14] <mattbrejza> or whatever the limit of mode 0 is
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> why did i think mode 6 was flight mode?
[21:14] <eroomde> alzheimers
[21:15] <Sierra004> If I'm running a backup battery on my ublox I shouldn't have to worry about that right?
[21:15] <mattbrejza> well you should configure flight mode on startup
[21:16] <Sierra004> in the setup()
[21:16] <mattbrejza> i dont see the need for a backup battery when you wont be turning the gps off and on
[21:16] <NigeyS> chrisstubbs, my mistake, bad brain day 6 is flight mode, 3 is pedestrian
[21:17] <NigeyS> you can chuck it into mode 6 anytime, but if it doesnt have a fix when you do so, it can take a looooooooooooong time to get a fix
[21:17] <eroomde> mattbrejza: some people have done some badness 10000 things
[21:17] <eroomde> like configuring the ublox in uCenter
[21:17] <eroomde> and using the backup batt to keep those settings alive
[21:17] <Sierra004> I thought its purpose was to save your settings since it has no RAM
[21:17] <NigeyS> :o
[21:17] <eroomde> and just have the micro be a dumb nmea parser
[21:17] <mattbrejza> thats just asking for trouble
[21:17] <eroomde> it is
[21:17] <eroomde> very much
[21:17] <Sierra004> or rather buffer your settings
[21:18] <eroomde> it does do that Sierra004
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[21:18] <chrisstubbs> ah ok i will try and stick the switch to mode 6 elsewhere then :)
[21:18] <eroomde> but it's much more robust as a system if the micro just puts it into a known state on startup
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> thanks :) will see how it goes
[21:18] <Sierra004> I'm running Ubuntu so I haven't even touched u-centre yet, I've just been changing my stuff on the arduino
[21:19] <eroomde> battery backups are good for car satnavs basically, where you can keep the most recent sat data hot so you don;t have to wait for it all to download before you can get a lock
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[21:19] <eroomde> which can take minutes
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[21:19] <Sierra004> Ahh I see
[21:19] <Sierra004> so probably useful if you lose lock?
[21:20] <eroomde> if you loose lock && power
[21:20] <Sierra004> I'm only having it set flight mode once at this point
[21:20] <Sierra004> in setup()
[21:20] <mattbrejza> btw eroomde gps works by comparing the timing differences of each satellites 1MHz C/A signal?
[21:20] <eroomde> yep
[21:20] <mattbrejza> i generally set flight mode on regular intervals, because why not
[21:21] <eroomde> Sierra004: that's usually sufficient. it's unusual that the gps would loose power but the micro wouldn;t, which would be a scenario where that might fail
[21:21] <eroomde> usually both would reset
[21:21] <mattbrejza> you might be unlucky at hte first and only time you set the flight mode might fail
[21:21] <eroomde> which means the micro would re-run setup()
[21:21] <eroomde> that should work fine
[21:22] <Sierra004> I planned to use a few 9v lithiums for my board in parallel so should have enough juice for up and down
[21:22] <Sierra004> 800mah each
[21:22] <mattbrejza> why not AAs?
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[21:23] <Sierra004> you have to have them in series right? to kick out 6v?
[21:23] <eroomde> there are a number of ways
[21:23] <eroomde> that's the simplest way
[21:24] <eroomde> but increasingly people use switching regulators to get from any input voltage to any output voltage
[21:24] <eroomde> that's generally more power efficient
[21:24] <eroomde> but not worth worrying about initially unless you're super mass-concious
[21:25] <Sierra004> Well this'll be my first flight for me
[21:25] <eroomde> indeed
[21:25] <eroomde> go with simple
[21:25] <Sierra004> 9v seemed to have enough voltage/current for the duration
[21:25] <mattbrejza> 4 AAs will last longer though
[21:25] <eroomde> do some ground tests to be sure
[21:25] <Sierra004> than 2 9v?
[21:25] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:26] <Sierra004> oh ok
[21:26] <Sierra004> I'll definately run a ground test to see first
[21:26] <Sierra004> just got to get everything else squared away first
[21:26] <jcoxon> 4xAA will be 3000mAh
[21:26] <mattbrejza> tbh 4 AAs last for ages anyway
[21:26] <eroomde> make sure it's comfortabley more than a flight
[21:26] <Sierra004> 2x9v are 1600mAh
[21:27] <mattbrejza> like i use old batteries used for flights to test payloads and they still dont run out after hours of testing
[21:27] <eroomde> apples and oranges comparison chapses
[21:27] <eroomde> use Wh
[21:27] <eroomde> and factor in efficiencies and voltage drops as the power regulator demands
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[21:27] <eroomde> otherwise you're not really concluding anything
[21:27] <mattbrejza> surely mAh is better for linear regs?
[21:28] <Sierra004> I wonder if using 4x9v at 3200mah negates the weight of a 4xAA holder
[21:28] <Sierra004> doubtful I suspect
[21:28] <eroomde> mattbrejza: 21:27 < eroomde> and factor in efficiencies and voltage drops as the power regulator demands
[21:29] <Sierra004> Yeah
[21:29] <mattbrejza> fair enough
[21:29] <mattbrejza> 9V lithiums are £7 each?
[21:29] <Sierra004> yeah something crazy like that
[21:29] <mattbrejza> a pack of AAs is £5.50
[21:30] <eroomde> but sure, if both sipplys are greater than LDO output + dropout, then you're right MAh
[21:30] <Sierra004> I'll have to remember that one, thanks guys
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[21:31] <mattbrejza> also look at 4x AAA
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[21:32] <Sierra004> Ok cool
[21:33] <mattbrejza> tbh theyre about the same price as AA so might not be so much worth it
[21:33] <Sierra004> Well I am going to double up the ammount of batteries in my camera too to make sure that doesn't die so it might be worth just getting 8xAA's
[21:34] <mattbrejza> i use a switchmode powre supply for both cameras
[21:34] <mattbrejza> powered by 6AAs
[21:34] <mattbrejza> never failed yet
[21:34] <Sierra004> What does that do?
[21:35] <mattbrejza> well it takes in 9V or so from the batteries and givese out 3.7V
[21:35] <Sierra004> ahh right
[21:36] <mattbrejza> what camera?
[21:36] <mattbrejza> can you just shove in more batteries?
[21:36] <Sierra004> My camera run's off AA's which is nice so I was just going to hook up some in parallel
[21:36] <Sierra004> Canon powershot A810
[21:37] <daveake> No need you'll get 8 hours out of a pair anyway
[21:37] <Sierra004> Video?
[21:37] <daveake> Ah
[21:38] <daveake> dunno
[21:38] <daveake> measure it
[21:38] <Sierra004> I think I worked it out to be something like 2-3 hours
[21:38] <mattbrejza> tbh cameras seem to use max power whether theyre idle, taking photos or whatever
[21:38] <mattbrejza> if you can measure the current compare the idle current and video current
[21:39] <daveake> Usually the lcd is the biggest current draw, and the sensor next, but on one camera I measured it was the other way round
[21:39] <Sierra004> I was pretty much just going to be video-ing from the get go really, I just wanted to be sure it was going to last especially if I end up faffing during pre-flight
[21:40] <Sierra004> Or if I don't find it!
[21:43] <eroomde> good thinking - there should be some named law about the length of pre-flight faffing as a function of how much time you allow for it when planning
[21:45] <Sierra004> lol
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[22:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Dunville "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Downlink code help"
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> GPS fix at last :)
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, YAY
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[22:21] <chrisstubbs> may have spoken too soon. restarted and its failed again
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[22:35] <chrisstubbs> time to call it a night i think
[22:35] <arko> well looks like building a 2meter collinear antenna is very very big
[22:35] <arko> almost 3meters
[22:36] <arko> thats not going to work well on a car :P
[22:36] <Upu> Well my Watson is 1.8 meters long
[22:36] <Upu> that does 2m
[22:36] <Upu> and the Diamond magmount i have works on a car @ 2 meters
[22:36] <Upu> I think its a 5/8ths
[22:36] <mattbrejza> we've driven around with a 1.5m tall antenna before
[22:37] <mattbrejza> did 50/144/434MHz
[22:37] <arko> yeah it's probably 5/8
[22:37] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/mr-77s_sma_diamond_2m_70cm_70w_50cm_long_black_metal_whip_magmount-p-2055.html?osCsid=cbc77de5578b8ce6c181254823138867
[22:37] <arko> http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/mobile_uhf___vhf.html
[22:38] <arko> oh nice
[22:38] <Upu> they do it with different connectors on but thats the one I use for tracking
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[22:40] <arko> works well i assume
[22:41] <arko> trying to find a high gain omni's
[22:41] <arko> was planning on building
[22:43] <arko> Upu: how do you have that grounded?
[22:45] <Upu> well I assume the roof of the car acts like a GP
[22:46] <Upu> hmm thought it was cold out there, -3'c wind chill feels like -12'C
[22:47] <arko> heh
[22:48] <arko> i mean, it does, but to get the max gain you probably want actual contact between the antenna gnd and the car gnd
[22:48] <arko> right?
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[22:48] <Upu> no idea
[22:48] <Upu> I just slap it on the roof
[22:48] <Upu> and it seems to work
[22:49] <Upu> probably no link as most of the time its on batteries anyway
[22:49] <Upu> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5809615703033948561/5809615783640924290?banner=pwa
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, snow in the UK too?
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, snow in the UK too?
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[22:54] <nigelvh> arko, keep in mind, for a vertical antenna, the more gain it has, the more horizontal the side lobes are going to be, so if the balloon is high up, you'll actually end up with worse signal.
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
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[22:56] <nigelvh> howdy
[22:56] <daveake> I had a pico flight I was chasing go right (well, withink 100m horizontally) overhead at 4000 metres. The null was brief and still decoded. This was with a car mounted aerial like the one Upu linked to
[22:57] <fsphil> my dogs water bowl was solid ice
[22:57] <arko> yikes
[22:58] <fsphil> my mag mount has an insulator between the base and the car
[22:58] <fsphil> seems to work well despite that
[22:58] <cm13g09> Lunar_Lander: we have had snow of a fashion in the UK, yes
[22:58] <arko> cool
[22:58] <arko> sold
[22:58] <arko> theres is a mr77 at the shop down the street
[22:58] <arko> gonna pick it up tomorrow
[22:58] <arko> did some research, looks like the best option
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> that snow is annoying
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> last tuesday it was sunny and stuff
[22:58] <daveake> If the balloon had been up at 30km say, and the aerial higher gain, then it would have not been decoded. However my feeling is that this would happen for such a short time, and happen so rarely, that it's not worth worrying about.
[22:59] <arko> nigelvh: yeah
[23:00] <nigelvh> daveake, yes, a standard car 5/8ths mag mount will work fine. You start talking about a reasonably high gain colinear and your nulls are much more serious.
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, I flew btw
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:01] <nigelvh> arko, if you're interested in modeling antennas and their radiation patterns, you should check out eznec. There's a free version that's limited in the number of points (complexity) it will simulate, but it's very good.
[23:01] <nigelvh> I generally use a 5/8ths on a mag mount on my car and it works fine.
[23:01] <nigelvh> I heard.
[23:01] <daveake> Sure, but how often do you get a flight overhead, and if you do, does it matter that the signal drops out?
[23:01] <Upu> woah
[23:01] <Upu> nice lag
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[23:02] <nigelvh> daveake, yes, you're right, for most cases, I'm just saying that on sufficiently high gain colinears, the pattern gets VERY horizontal. I've seen patterns that would not see really any of the sky unless you're a LONG ways out.
[23:03] <daveake> sure
[23:03] <nigelvh> Especially commercial colinears as they design them to force the lobes down as they're usually mounted at high locales.
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[23:03] <arko> nigelvh: woah cool
[23:03] <arko> thanks
[23:04] <nigelvh> Anyway, a 5/8ths or most any not huge colinear would work fine. Just something to keep in mind.
[23:04] <arko> ok cool
[23:05] <nigelvh> Gain generally means you have to restrict the recieving angles. So really high gain gives you really narrow lobes.
[23:05] <arko> was gonna build one but it looks like there isn't much to gain (punny)
[23:05] <arko> makes sense
[23:05] <nigelvh> Yeah, a 5/8ths is cheap and easy and works.
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[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh,
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> I succeeded
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:12] <nigelvh> I heard.
[23:12] <nigelvh> Any hiccups?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> save for the splashdown it worked well :)
[23:20] <daveake> Well that's not controllable (not easily anyway!)
[23:21] <daveake> One thing for next flight - and I know this is difficult on your first - is try and get us lot updated somehow. We had no data aside from spacenear for the whole flight
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[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> will try to solve this somehow
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> maybe someone can be stationed "at home" and on the chat
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> we had my stabo running in the university and my prof said that it could copy the balloon into the descent
[23:25] <daveake> Yes, if you don't have 3G from the chase car at all, but do have a "handy" working, then do that
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[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> :
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> is Upu still on?
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> or does anybody else know something about active antennas for the ublox GPS?
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[23:29] <daveake> He's not no
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[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> in other news
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> my avrispmkII works
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:34] <daveake> A positive move :)
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> :) yea
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 11 2013