highaltitude.log.20130308

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[05:57] <arko> natrium42:
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[06:43] <griffonbot> @mileniceeee: then someone yelled out "is your husbands name henry?" hahahahahahahah i love my school #cusf [http://twitter.com/mileniceeee/status/309917343113437184]
[06:45] <natrium42> wat
[06:50] <x-f> lol
[07:09] <eroomde> odd
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[07:56] <kokey> what's the ISM 433 restrictions in the UK again?
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[08:00] <kokey> seems like in south africa it's 100mw erp
[08:12] <eroomde> 10mW
[08:15] <fsphil> any more than that and there'd be panic, riots in the streets
[08:19] <costyn> lol
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[09:06] <arko> Haha
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[09:06] Action: costyn seekritly used 25 on the last one
[09:07] <costyn> I haven't been able to find anything on restrictions/laws about sending radio from the air here in NL
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[09:28] <gonzo_> not so secret now!
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[09:30] <kokey> seems like it's 100mw in south africa
[09:30] <kokey> but will have to double check that
[09:30] <fsphil> that's a lot of photons
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[09:35] <costyn> gonzo_: hehe indeed
[09:35] <costyn> fsphil: :)
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[09:53] <costyn> anybody have the link to the automated meteo balloon launcher video?
[09:54] <costyn> can't find it on youtube
[09:56] <Elwell> costyn: nothing under http://www.youtube.com/user/VaisalaGroup ?
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[09:57] <costyn> Elwell: checking...
[10:00] <Elwell> hmm nope don't see it
[10:01] <Elwell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKaDsbyZmV4
[10:02] <Elwell> ah no sorry
[10:02] <costyn> neuh
[10:02] <costyn> err.
[10:02] <costyn> I mean no worries
[10:02] <costyn> found a good enough picture
[10:03] <costyn> this is sort of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5PnIduYgRQ
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[10:04] <x-f> iirc, i've seen such video from the Horus team
[10:04] <Darkside> eh?
[10:04] <Darkside> yeah
[10:04] <Darkside> vimeo
[10:05] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/19862362
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[10:11] <costyn> x-f / Darkside : thanks, just what I was looking for
[10:11] <costyn> :)
[10:11] Nick change: `rune -> `rune_away
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[10:48] <HixWork> Any of you guys used 2.4Gig video senders at all? Just ordered http://goo.gl/CylDI but wondering if it can cope with full PAL resolution
[10:49] <mfa298> Used one years ago with limited success
[10:50] <mfa298> but there were a lot of walking bags of water in the way
[10:50] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure 500mW isnt legal in the uk btw (at least airborne anyway)
[10:50] <HixWork> figured for the paltry cost of $14.99 it was worth a try
[10:50] <HixWork> won't be airborne, not really any use with 50-200m range
[10:51] <mfa298> im not sure 500mW is legal for video
[10:51] <HixWork> just figured it was worth a look at
[10:52] <daveake> If airborne 10mW is the max I believe
[10:52] <eroomde> shane, the tall ginger swearing irishman who said 'fuck me!' with perfect timing in the launch video of our rocket that i played at the conference,...
[10:52] <eroomde> ... is singing a surprisingly good impersonation of macy gray along to macy gray on the radio
[10:52] <eroomde> it's quite something to hear
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[10:54] <mfa298> looking at ir2030 table 3.24 suggests 10mw max ground or airborne
[10:56] <mfa298> personally for video I tend to just run some reasonable coax
[10:58] <mfa298> urm70 seems to work well for composite video (and unbalanced audio)
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[11:13] <cuddykid> might be launching next week if I can get permish
[11:14] <daveake> Shouldn't be a problem. What are you launching?
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[11:19] <gonzo_> for video, you can get away with just about anything. I have audio lap screened cable runing around my front room. Seems to be fine
[11:19] <gonzo_> I doubt that most video inputs are terminated at 75R anyway. None of mine are
[11:21] <fsphil> need a fair bit of coax
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[11:28] <nosebleedkt> query fsphil
[11:31] <mfa298> I think a lot of video kit is a higher impedance - I've got a run around my flat with a couple of T pieces in as well - only had issues when one end wasn't terminated at all
[11:32] <mfa298> and I've done much longer runs with urm70 in the past (50-100m with various connectors in the middle)
[11:34] <gonzo_> yep, long unterminated leads cause fun reflections. but house length runs youi can get awau with it.
[11:35] <gonzo_> my 25ft of audio cable does cause a slight ghosting. But so close in that it's not visible unless you are right up against the screen
[11:35] <fsphil> syntax error nosebleedkt
[11:36] <nosebleedkt> fsphil, completely
[11:41] <mfa298> I think I've had more issue with audio cables picking up mains hum than I've had with video. Although good coax seems to help and balanced cables are even better (but not much consumer kit does balanced audio)
[11:41] <fsphil> I prefer running video over cat5 on long runs
[11:42] <fsphil> plus means I can get four signals in one (video + stereo + misc)
[11:43] <costyn> fsphil: you run the analog signal over cat5?
[11:43] <costyn> I mean, no re-coding or anything?
[11:43] <mfa298> the only times I've used cat5 for video is for vga or hdmi with dedicated sender/reciever boxes
[11:43] <fsphil> analogue, using baluns to convert to and from a balanced signal
[11:43] Action: costyn googles baluns
[11:43] <fsphil> I've got one that has 2x video and 2x audio in, cat5 out
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[11:44] <costyn> never heard of baluns before
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[11:46] <fsphil> something like http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/50-7730/composite-video-stereo-audio-over/dp/AV17463
[11:47] <costyn> fsphil: cool, good to know this exists :)
[11:47] <gonzo_> there are a lot of so-called baluns on the market, that are just connectors. No actual balun inside
[11:47] <fsphil> the ones I have are, naturally they where taken apart :)
[11:47] <gonzo_> the ones for cat5 should have a 75R to 100R transformer inside.
[11:48] <fsphil> I did try video over cat5 directly first, it was horrible
[11:48] <gonzo_> yep, ditto
[11:48] <fsphil> fuzzy image, and picked up all sorts of noise
[11:48] <fsphil> the balun made it solid
[11:48] <fsphil> got rid of the audio hum too
[11:48] <gonzo_> the ones that are just a termonal block and a bnc, are just used for hookup etc, not driving lines
[11:48] <Randomskk> yup. cat5 is perfect for balanced signals
[11:49] <gonzo_> as they are also isolation they are good for fixing earth loops
[11:49] <fsphil> yes
[11:49] <costyn> fsphil: when do you need such long runs of audio/video?
[11:49] <fsphil> costyn: nest box camera
[11:49] <costyn> ah
[11:49] <fsphil> it's a 20m run of cable
[11:50] <gonzo_> another use for them, is for driving other low freq signals. Like low HF or VLF Rx antennas
[11:50] <fsphil> and rather than running a few coax cables, it only needs one cat5
[11:50] <gonzo_> I have also used them for sending my 10MHz reference signals around
[11:50] <fsphil> I got an hdmi<>cat5 adaptor recently
[11:50] <fsphil> it's quite neat
[11:52] <gonzo_> my cctv cams akll have braid screened twin. But I actually use it unbalanced, with the other core for DC power.
[11:52] <gonzo_> niot udeal but it works
[11:52] <fsphil> yea. cat5 isn't great for power either
[11:52] <fsphil> I think I'm feeding 11v into it, getting 9v out the other side
[11:52] <gonzo_> yep, you can get volt drops.
[11:53] <costyn> probably why PoE is at 48v? enough margin :)
[11:53] <gonzo_> They can then cause earth loop probs, though a balun on each end shoudl fix that
[11:53] <zyp> costyn, yes, and also lower current
[11:54] <gonzo_> yep, that's the main reasion
[11:55] <gonzo_> 48 or 52V has been a telecoms std for a long time
[12:06] <Darkside> http://freezone.internode.on.net/vod/freezone/internode/events/womad/yr2013/
[12:06] <Darkside> live jazz from my home town
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[12:18] <HixWork> I've been looking for something to record video to SD card. There are scores of integrated camera systems out there, but its seems, few that will record proper PAL resolution as a standalone system
[12:19] <HixWork> i need something small, lowe powered and portable. Ideally the part of a gopro that records, not the capturing aspect
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[12:24] <fsphil> I've not seen anything like that
[12:25] <costyn> HixWork: so just a lens and ccd system which gives you a video feed?
[12:25] <HixWork> found this, but not sure of the quality http://goo.gl/44uI7
[12:26] <HixWork> nope got that costyn - need to record
[12:26] <costyn> HixWork: ah... so a dvr?
[12:26] <HixWork> yeaqh, but small and portable as in standalone
[12:27] <costyn> HixWork: http://www.cooldrives.com/mipodvrforsd.html
[12:28] <zyp> HixWork, from a pal source?
[12:28] <costyn> HixWork: 'portable dvr' seems a good search term on Google
[12:28] <HixWork> yeah zyp - costyn thats the same item in a cse :)
[12:29] <costyn> HixWork: ah :)
[12:30] <zyp> it seems a bit silly nowadays to use a digital camera to output an analog video signal, then digitalize that again to record it
[12:30] <costyn> HixWork: there are scores of portable dvr devices on google... try searching on google images
[12:30] <costyn> zyp: that is silly
[12:30] <HixWork> zyp its a standalone CMOS camera that I'm using
[12:31] <zyp> exactly, and that's digital
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> It may be quantised spacially - not all are digital though.
[12:32] <HixWork> problem is I can't access the signal from the sensort o record it digitally
[12:32] <zyp> that means you picked a bad camera :)
[12:34] <HixWork> IRONICALLY i PICKED A VERY GOOD SONY, IT'S JUST THE INTEGRATION THAT'S BAD :)
[12:34] <HixWork> OOPS engineering drawing mode again, sorry chaps
[12:34] Action: costyn puts his fingers in his ears
[12:34] Action: HixWork signs at costyn noise has gone now
[12:34] <costyn> HixWork = http://jakobfreely.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/shouting-at-a-computer.jpg
[12:35] <HixWork> :) If you could see me at my computer at work when CAD screws me over, you'd think i was speaking in block caps :)
[12:35] <costyn> :)
[12:36] <HixWork> problem with CAD is that everything is in caps, and you naturally alt tab and type forgetting till after you hit return
[12:36] <lz1dev> computers are secretly mocking all of us
[12:36] <Elwell> secretly?
[12:36] <HixWork> openly
[12:37] Action: SpeedEvil wants some beam design software.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> The good stuff is expensive.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> I want to remove bits of structural wood in my house, without making it fall down.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> Doing beam calculations 'right' - not simply assuming they are made from pinned rigid beams free to rotate - is hard.
[12:44] <gonzo_> apply large amounts of common sense and gut feeling (and 8x3 timber)
[12:46] <gonzo_> the thing you can never model is the tensions set up in the existing structure and wood dires and foundations settle
[12:46] <gonzo_> dries
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[12:56] <HixWork> :) http://goo.gl/GbQJg
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: theres opensource multiphysics packages
[13:00] <Laurenceb> ive been playing with http://www.csc.fi/english/pages/elmer
[13:00] <Laurenceb> but its crazy hard to set up...
[13:01] <costyn> HixWork: that's nothing http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/15/caption-contest-gopro-gone-wrong/
[13:02] <Laurenceb> haha wtf
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[13:02] <costyn> it started off as a joke after he'd mounted 2 3d setups, but apparently he ended up jumping with it
[13:03] <mattbrejza> at least point in different directions...
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[13:17] <costyn> mattbrejza: well if you're the cameraman there's not much point at filming something off to the side
[13:17] <costyn> mattbrejza: but there's no point to this many camera's in any case
[13:17] <costyn> it was a joke :)
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[13:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.b3tards.com/u/dceb14b0c0ee9d13b69a/jeremy-kyle-sheep.jpg
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - it's annoying. The bit between ideal massless rods and 'screw it, CFD' is messy.
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> A) >100h trying to understand and learn the code and appropriate packages and screwing around.
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> B) scale models I can make in 5 min
[13:26] <Laurenceb> hee
[13:26] <Laurenceb> yeah elmer is crazy hard to set up
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Then there is the interesting question of building regulations.
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[13:28] <Laurenceb> i got a structural engineer to sign off structural steelwork designs
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[13:29] <Laurenceb> only cost £100 or so
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Yeah, steel is the easy way.
[13:29] <Laurenceb> but i knew the guy so...
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, it's not notably cheap.
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[15:19] <S_Mark> I was wondering if there is a web service which accepts habitat telemetry sentences in addition to the usual way?
[15:21] <costyn> S_Mark: you can talk to the couchdb
[15:21] <costyn> S_Mark: join #habhub and ask the guys that maintain it there.
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[15:23] <S_Mark> costyn, ok thanks very much!
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[15:25] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/wiptn iPad to FT-817ND interface from Hackvana's google profile for those of you that own both...
[15:25] <costyn> any more details on it than a pic?
[15:26] <eroomde> remote: bb/acl: edmoore is allowed. accepted payload.
[15:26] <eroomde> from pushing to bitbucket
[15:26] <eroomde> i love it
[15:26] <eroomde> 'edmoore is allowed'
[15:26] <eroomde> i dread to think what the consequences would be if i was not allowed
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[15:27] <NigeyS> lol it will explode :P
[15:28] <costyn> NigeyS: eroomde's head?
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[15:28] <jonsowman> probably the same as what happens when you try and sudo without permission
[15:29] <costyn> jonsowman: it makes smarmy comments at you?
[15:29] <jonsowman> http://xkcd.com/838/
[15:29] <costyn> haha
[15:31] <HixWork> costyn, sorry, I don't, though if you ask on #hackvana, I'm usre someone will know
[15:32] <Laurenceb> hahah
[15:32] <costyn> ok, no worries.. i have an old 817 anyways
[15:32] <Laurenceb> the goatkcd of the latest xkcd is epic
[15:32] <HixWork> ahh, holdfirre costyn, I'm asking zindello
[15:32] <costyn> Laurenceb: gawd
[15:34] <lz1dev> :[
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[15:36] <costyn> for everyone else, if you google goatkcd, results are NSFW, and even not safe for life
[15:37] <lz1dev> not safe for life at least
[15:38] <Laurenceb> http://imgur.com/Hjwxnl.jpg
[15:41] <fsphil> links from Laurenceb are usually iffy. LaurenceA wasn't too bad, but Laurenceb killed him
[15:41] <Laurenceb> /b/
[15:41] <fsphil> evil clone syndrome
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[15:42] <staylo> the shocking revelation is that the 'b' is a hex digit
[15:43] <fsphil> I hear Laurence0 lives in a hollowed out volcano
[15:44] <staylo> and 'laurence' is actually an acronym
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[15:55] <costyn> :)
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[16:01] <costyn> woa... cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBnurznFio
[16:01] <costyn> FPV glider from a HAB
[16:03] <chrisstubbs> thats awesome, got stuck just in the right part of the tree too haha
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> Would anyone be able to have a quick glance over my tracker schematic and see if they notice anything wrong? :)
[16:04] <costyn> interesting cutdown mechanism too
[16:05] <Laurenceb> wtf
[16:05] <Laurenceb> that guy actually built something
[16:05] <Laurenceb> unreal
[16:05] <Laurenceb> thats been on the go since like 2005
[16:05] <costyn> yea, pretty cool
[16:05] <costyn> reading the article http://rcexplorer.se/projects/2013/03/fpv-to-space-and-back/
[16:06] <costyn> guy is a bit clueless about GPS, but interesting read otherwise
[16:06] <costyn> 2W transmitter woa
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[16:08] <Laurenceb> erm
[16:08] <Laurenceb> that doesnt look controlled
[16:08] <costyn> it doesnt no
[16:09] <Laurenceb> ok.. maybe later in the flight
[16:09] <Laurenceb> oh lolz
[16:09] <Laurenceb> only once he takes control from ground
[16:09] <Laurenceb> fail
[16:10] <peplin> hey, anyone here able to help out with an attempted RTTY modem transmtiting from an Arduino? I've tried a number of different RTTY implementations but I can't decode the right characters in dl-fdigi
[16:10] <chrisstubbs> peplin, are you using an NTX2?
[16:10] <peplin> HX1, I'm in the states we can use 144MHz
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[16:10] <chrisstubbs> ok sure, got both lines on the waterfall?
[16:11] <peplin> yeah, solid lines, audio is clean
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> Ok, do you know the baudrate, 7/8bit and stop bits?
[16:11] <peplin> I'm thinking it has to do the the baud rate timing because sometimes I'll get characters at about the right rate (just 50 baud to start) but it's not the right character
[16:11] <peplin> yes, 50 baud, 7 bit ASCII and 2 stop bits
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> try pressing the r/v button in the bottom right corner of fldigi
[16:13] <peplin> !!! what a fantastic button
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> fixed?
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[16:13] <peplin> yes, looks like it - thank you! i'll look it up in the docs, but what does Rv do?
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> i think it means your mark/space are crossed over
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> try swapping them over in our arduino code
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> the mark/space pin numbers that os
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> *is
[16:14] <peplin> interesting, I'll check
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> swap them over then turn off the rv button. Its a good idea to make sure they are the right way round as other people may not be able to decode your payload if they do not know its rv
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[16:38] <peplin> chrisstubbs: fixed on the transmitting side now, thanks for your help
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> peplin, awesome, i went though exactly the same thing with my NTX2 :)
[16:43] <Sierra004> If my ublox max 6 is producing the (FAILED) ACK responce constantly when running the softserial configuration/test code, have I killed the breakout board?
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[16:45] <Sierra004> Note that before I started trying to do ublox to NTX2 code and connecting that up to see what happened it was working fine
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[16:46] <HixWork> Doubtful you've killed it
[16:46] <mattbrejza> unlikely, the best way to get it working to start iwth is to conenct to a pc with a usb->ttl serial stick and running ucenter
[16:46] <HixWork> try hardware serial
[16:48] <Sierra004> UM232? or via the arduino hardware serial
[16:49] <HixWork> try hooking it up to arduino serial 0/1
[16:50] <HixWork> and just set the baud and run serial terminal
[16:52] <Sierra004> So SoftwareSerial GPS(4, 5); becomes (0,1); ?
[16:53] <Sierra004> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 I'm running part one of this btw
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> Sierra004, i think HixWork means to use the arduino as a USB>ttl board to test the GPS output
[16:54] <HixWork> yup
[16:54] <HixWork> just try andf read the raw NMEA strings
[16:54] <chrisstubbs> may be easier to use your UM232 if its suitable
[16:55] <HixWork> tha'll tell you if it's screwed, though I connected 5v to mine accidentally once ad it was fine
[16:55] <Sierra004> is that using ucenter?
[16:55] <HixWork> putty anything
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> you can use ucenter, but arduino serial monitor/putty/hypertermial will work easier
[16:56] <Sierra004> well I'm using the breakout board available on the store @ 5v
[16:57] <Sierra004> The serial monitor responce I get is:
[16:57] <Sierra004> B562624240FFFF63000010270050FA0FA06402C10000000000000016DC * Reading ACK response: (FAILED!)
[16:57] <chrisstubbs> try the ttl board/purry
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> you should get somthing like $GPGGA,hhmmss.ss,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x,xx,x.x,x.x,M,x.x,M,x.x,xxxx
[16:58] <Sierra004> where is that sorry?
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> download putty
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> and hook the GPS up to your USB/TTL board
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> 5v - 5v
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> tx - rx
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> rx - tx
[17:00] <chrisstubbs> gnd - gnd
[17:00] <Sierra004> I should probably mention at this point I'm using ubuntu for added complexity lol
[17:01] <Sierra004> I was running that setup previously
[17:01] <chrisstubbs> oh, use some kind of ubuntu serial monitor then, the arduino one will do if you have the IDE installed
[17:01] <Sierra004> and through the dev/tty serial monitor it was coming up with all the good stuff
[17:01] <mattbrejza> u-center i think runs under wine
[17:02] <mattbrejza> u-center being the program to query the gps and monitor how many sats it has, play with settings etc
[17:02] <mattbrejza> and can monitor the gps when its connected to the arduino (if you connect the rx of the serial->usb converter to the gps tx)
[17:03] <Elwell> screen works well enough for this
[17:03] <Elwell> screen /dev/ttyUSB0
[17:03] <Sierra004> I then ran the NTX2 and the breakout board off the same 5v powerline, went back to basics to check my gps was working and now it just times out and says (FAILED!) instead of (SUCCESS!) followed by the $GPGGA
[17:04] <mattbrejza> the B5 62... string is ublox binary data
[17:04] <HixWork> $GPGGA is aNMEA sentence, so it impplies it isn't borked
[17:04] <mattbrejza> that might be the response when trying to put into flight mode or somethig
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[17:05] <HixWork> forget trying to run any code for nowe and just link it to serial and monitor output
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[17:07] <Sierra004> I just noticed that I get the notice "not in sync: resp=0x00"
[17:07] <Sierra004> so packet 5 isn't being received in order?
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[17:09] <HixWork> what are you monitoring it with ?
[17:09] <Sierra004> the IDE serial monitor
[17:09] <HixWork> ok, are you running any code?
[17:10] <Sierra004> Yeah I just re-copied and pasted the example code from the wiki guides
[17:10] <Sierra004> it is now functioning correctly
[17:10] <HixWork> just run a seria.read
[17:11] <Sierra004> I have zero clue why it was failing before
[17:11] <Sierra004> getting allsorts now
[17:11] <HixWork> were you trying to upload code to the arduino with the uBlox plugged into hardware serial ports?
[17:12] <HixWork> and getting "not in sync: resp=0x00" in orange at the bottom in the verification window of the IDE?
[17:12] <Sierra004> At one point yes after it was suggested I try that
[17:13] <HixWork> therein lies a problem, the arduino uses one of those pins for ICSP so it fails with anything sending data into that pin
[17:13] <Sierra004> but prior to that I was running it through pins 4 and 5 and was getting the same failure minus the "not in sync: resp=0x00" I think
[17:13] <HixWork> did you have 4 and 5 the wrong way round?
[17:13] <Sierra004> I tried both orientations
[17:14] <Sierra004> So I pressed the reset, copied in code straight from the wiki instead of the one I had saved
[17:14] <HixWork> maybe it needed a reset
[17:14] <Sierra004> and then it worked perfectly
[17:15] <Babs_> Probably not an issue, but there have been conflicting wikis for hardware serial in some places, one says rx to tx (and vice versa) from the ublox to the arduino, the other says rx to rx and tx to tx. You need to make sure you are doing the latter
[17:15] <Babs_> That one stumped me for a while until i found the correct wiki
[17:15] <arko> mornin
[17:16] <Sierra004> Thank you, would you all advise against using software serial at all then for flights?
[17:16] <HixWork> yes
[17:16] <Sierra004> Why is it inadvisable?
[17:16] <HixWork> woo hoo freedom from the office bbl
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[17:16] <arko> runaway! runaway!
[17:16] <Sierra004> Thank you HixWork!
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[17:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UVwt7oWC5fc#!
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[17:36] <eroomde> Randomskk: happier psu ground arrangements, as requested
[17:36] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/I9jdxPW.png
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[17:40] <arko> wow very nice
[17:43] <Elwell> indeed
[17:44] <eroomde> it's getting there now, nearly ready for a review
[17:44] <Laurenceb> whats the big chip?
[17:44] <eroomde> the square one in the upper middle?
[17:45] <eroomde> adc
[17:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[17:45] <eroomde> the big footprint is an islated traco dc dc
[17:45] <Laurenceb> i see
[17:45] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/thd-12-2423wi/converter-dc-dc-12w-15v-0-4a/dp/1284260?Ntt=THD12-2423WI
[17:45] <eroomde> i like them a lot and use them a lot
[17:46] <eroomde> eg on the smart rocket igniter controller
[17:46] <Laurenceb> big.. heavy and expensive
[17:46] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8364771362/in/photostream
[17:46] <eroomde> top left corner
[17:46] <Laurenceb> but i guess it doe shte job
[17:46] <eroomde> heavy and expensive?
[17:46] <eroomde> they're neither
[17:46] <Laurenceb> £35
[17:47] <eroomde> i mean i wouldn;t do them on mass production
[17:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:47] <eroomde> but this is not a mass production item, it's prototype isntrumentation
[17:47] <eroomde> £35 doesn't even register on rocket engine hardware
[17:48] <Laurenceb> i guess lol
[17:48] <eroomde> especially for the convenience
[17:48] <eroomde> designing a decent dc/dc like that, remembering the isolation, is not easy and i'm willing to bet it would take up significantly more board space
[17:48] <eroomde> it's not just a switch-mode
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[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> hallo
[17:54] <eroomde> afternoon Lunar_Lander
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[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[17:55] <eroomde> the life is going ok
[17:55] <eroomde> i have almost finished a pcb layout
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[17:55] <eroomde> which feels nice
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> today I got my avrispmkII to work with arduino first
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> and then with avrdude alone
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[17:57] <eroomde> awesome
[17:57] <eroomde> avrdude is a nice piece of software
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> albeit with my arduino uno on perfboard it refused to work
[17:58] <eroomde> are you planning on writing straight C for Oernen II?
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> I hooked it up to the ICSP header I made and the LED on the avrisp turned red
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah maybe later
[17:58] <eroomde> hmm, that might be something to do with the fuse bits
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:58] <chrisstubbs> Do any of you clever people know about how to route 50 ohm traces for the GPS antenna?
[17:59] <eroomde> you have to be careful with setting the fuse bits correctly when switching from arduino to something else
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> someone linked me to a fuse calculator
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> where you can set which oscillator you have
[17:59] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: yes, although often it's v much easier than you think, especially if you keep the trace short, eg 1-2cm
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> what I did was that I inserted a atmega328 that I bought off sparkfun with the optiboot already on it
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> and I was able to program it via FTDI
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[18:00] <eroomde> as that's about <= 1/16 the wavelength, at which point you don't really have to worry about RF stuff
[18:00] <eroomde> you can treat it as DC
[18:00] <chrisstubbs> erromde ok so i dont have to worry about sheilding it with a ground plane or anything?
[18:00] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: that still could be a fuse bits issue if you switch from ftdi bootloader to ICSP
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:00] <chrisstubbs> the entire board is (almost) single sided so i can self etch it
[18:00] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: i still would, it's good practice
[18:01] <eroomde> so, i would have uninterrupted ground underneath the rf side of the gps module
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> what I already learned is that if you select a fuse that disables SPI, then you are like the stupidiest champion
[18:01] <chrisstubbs> good plan
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> because then you can't program the chip anymore
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[18:01] <chrisstubbs> design is going pretty well :) only needed 2 vias
[18:01] <eroomde> and rf ground between the antenna connector ground and two rf_gnd either side of the rf-in pin on the gps
[18:02] <eroomde> with SMA connectors it's basically easy as the sma pinout matches the gps input pinout
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, can you set fuses if the avrisp is red?
[18:02] <eroomde> then connect the ground on top and bottom with shit-loads of vias
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't try the fuse command because I didn't think of it
[18:03] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: you definitely can repair them with avrdude
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> btw I think I got the connector right
[18:03] <eroomde> but it being red doesn't help me much as i use a non-coloured terminal
[18:03] <eroomde> so i have no idea what being red means
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> because I turned around 180° and the LED flashed orange
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> and what I know is that means it knows it is hooked up wrong
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> (but I have no proof, I hooked it up to my arduino mega and it was green and I could flash it, should have tried to flip it 180°)
[18:04] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: http://i.imgur.com/QSPOJ38.png
[18:04] <eroomde> this is how i have done it on something i had to hand
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah btw, the chip was powered
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> if you ask
[18:05] <chrisstubbs> eroomde thanks for the help. What im getting at is the board is single sided and home etched so i cant have a gound plane on the back
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> because I read the avrispmkII doesn't deliver power
[18:05] <eroomde> sadly i have to go now so can't really help you LL
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> no problem!
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:05] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: well you should still be ok, just keep it all super short
[18:05] <chrisstubbs> im using the chip antenna btw
[18:05] <chrisstubbs> ok cheers, will see how it goes :P
[18:05] <eroomde> it might be a bit more noise-prone than a double-sided board but you should still be fine
[18:06] <eroomde> chrisstubbs: ah, my advice is different then
[18:06] <eroomde> follow the pdf file
[18:06] <eroomde> right gtg
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> cu eroomde
[18:09] <arko> woot! ordered the 1200g balloon
[18:09] <arko> $95 damn it
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:13] <arko> how do you guys do these's launches so often!?
[18:13] <arko> it's like at least $400 everytime
[18:14] <fsphil> I skipped a year
[18:14] <arko> (strong languageish) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-4PltMB2A
[18:37] <arko> im tempted to just use technora everywhere
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/www_lidl_uk/hs.xsl/our-offers-2491.htm?action=showDetail&id=610&ar=11
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> cheap liion drill
[18:39] <arko> datagram: http://imgur.com/vT6NyaN
[18:51] <arko> wat, wrong channel sorry
[18:52] <arko> btw, hab peoples
[18:52] <arko> 200cf for $100 with tank rental
[18:52] <arko> $328 for 200cf of welding grade
[18:52] <arko> do those numbers sound right?
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[18:58] <fsphil> welding with helium?
[18:58] <arko> welding grade*
[18:59] <arko> im not sure where you would use it in welding
[18:59] <arko> but it's very very very pure helium
[18:59] <arko> im assuming everyone uses party grade
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[18:59] <arko> i think ive asked before here, and the answer was yes, party grade
[19:00] <fsphil> yea
[19:00] <fsphil> they call it Balloon Gas here
[19:01] <HixPad> I just appeared to arko's comment, I'm assuming it's helium
[19:01] <arko> yes
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[19:02] <HixPad> But party grade sounds like some kind of music festival purchase heh
[19:02] <arko> you have no idea
[19:02] <arko> party up in 30km
[19:02] <HixPad> That's high
[19:02] <HixPad> :P
[19:02] <arko> thats just how we roll
[19:03] <arko> ain't no party like a high altitude party
[19:03] <HixPad> Are you LA arko's?
[19:03] <arko> yes
[19:03] <arko> are you?
[19:03] <HixPad> Why did it correct that, damn you apple
[19:03] <HixPad> Nope UK
[19:03] <arko> aww
[19:03] <HixPad> don't sound so sad :)
[19:04] Action: arko is lonely in LA
[19:04] <arko> no one does habs here
[19:04] <arko> like a few uni's
[19:04] <arko> but nothing like the family that is EU
[19:04] <arko> with rtty and all
[19:04] <HixPad> Theryre more into abs in LA aren't they
[19:04] <arko> yeah :(
[19:04] <HixPad> Heh
[19:05] <HixPad> O the bright side you don't have shite weather like us, or NOTAMS
[19:05] <arko> oh
[19:05] <arko> we have notams
[19:05] <HixPad> oh do you?
[19:05] <arko> im currently emailing back and fourth with faa
[19:05] <arko> and getting a NOTAM issued
[19:05] <HixPad> Thought none in USandA
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[19:07] <arko> even if it's not required, i'd still do it for pilots
[19:07] <arko> i did a notam for my last hab
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[19:09] <HixPad> Up
[19:09] <HixPad> Yup
[19:09] <HixPad> Anyone have an alternative to the 4ucon sim holder in the spark fun library?
[19:09] <HixPad> Can't find here and their min order qty is 10000 units
[19:10] <HixPad> #bitexcessive
[19:10] <HixPad> Or a soured
[19:10] <HixPad> Source for it
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:11] <HixPad> Hey Lunar_Lander
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:12] <HixPad> Back down to earth now? XD
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
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[19:17] <chrisstubbs> Can anyone name a crystal manufacturer that do samples? :P
[19:18] <HixPad> Bits box online are cheap and do singles chrisstubbs
[19:18] <Upu> HixPad Molex do one
[19:19] <HixPad> Got one, proto-pic proto-pic.co.uk/sim-socket/
[19:19] <HixPad> Cheers upu
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> Hixpad cheers but no SMD ones. Not to worry though
[19:21] <HixPad> Ah sorry, didn't see SMD. I'm ordering from farnell in the next couple of days if you want one lemme know, I'll just post it on
[19:21] <HixPad> Saves the 20 min order
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Ill bear that in mind, thanks :)
[19:21] <HixPad> How did your homebrew tqfp board work out in the end?
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Upu has some in stock so if i put an order in with him i might pick some up
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> the brakout board is working perfectly
[19:22] <HixPad> Ah koi
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> just finished an El-cheapo SMD single sided tracker design for domlin
[19:22] <HixPad> Jesus apple just let me type without correcting everything
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> will attempt to home etch it
[19:22] <HixPad> Cool
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> my phone just autocorrected "i pik u up at 8.15" to "i oil you up at 8.15?"
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> not quite what i was offering
[19:23] <HixPad> Heh hope it was a girl
[19:23] <HixPad> Not your mum XD
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> lmao
[19:24] <domlin> that's HTC for you
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> nah and i dont normally text like that, i just like to annoy some people by doing it ;)
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> ah hello domlin
[19:24] <HixPad> That's a bit Barking really, I love mah momma everyday
[19:24] <domlin> ahoy thee
[19:24] <domlin> there*
[19:24] <domlin> traffic cops is on, this is good stuff!
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/FinishedBoardRendering.png
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> HixPad
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> Upu does the antenna feed on that PCB look ok to you? :)
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> for the GPS chip antenna
[19:27] <HixPad> I was told as wide as you could fit it
[19:27] <Upu> on the neo6 those 2 pads that link togethe
[19:27] <HixPad> Same with rf ant
[19:27] <Upu> together
[19:27] <Upu> just run the connection between the pads
[19:28] <Upu> so your gnd pour is continuous
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> 4th and 5th in from the top left?
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> ok will do, wanst 100% sure so i made it cuttable if i wasnt right
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> File updated, does that look better?
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> huh there is still an airwire there....
[19:30] <jonsowman> micro airwire
[19:31] <jonsowman> eagle?
[19:31] <Upu> just turn off all the layers apart from airwires
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> Sorted, used line insted of route accidently
[19:31] <Upu> and ensure your back ground is black
[19:31] <jonsowman> I usually zoom waaaaay out, hit the route tool so it picks up the airwire, then zoom back in
[19:31] <jonsowman> to see where it came from
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> good tip upu, there was one more i missed :)
[19:32] <jonsowman> although I have spotted it already in your render
[19:32] <jonsowman> chrisstubbs: if you hit Ratsnest it will tell you the remaining number of airwires in your status bar
[19:32] <jonsowman> alternatively you will receive the holy grail of pcb design: "Nothing to do!"
[19:33] <Upu> lol
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[19:35] <chrisstubbs> Sorted, "Nothing to do!" :)
[19:35] <costyn> chrisstubbs: I'm missing one of the GPIO links on the RFM
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> just updated that, bear with i will update the file
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> thanks anyway :)
[19:36] <costyn> chrisstubbs: ok :)
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> still need to put a ISP header of some kind on
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> just pads i can solder onto to load the arduino bootloader, then i can use the rx/tx pads i put there to upload
[19:38] <costyn> chrisstubbs: not if your gps is also connected to that same hardware uart
[19:39] <chrisstubbs> costyn, i have put 0604 resistors in place that i can bridge with solder when the GPS is connected
[19:39] <chrisstubbs> sorry when the sketch is uploaded
[19:39] <costyn> chrisstubbs: so you have to solder to reprogram the board?
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> maybe header/jumpers would be a more sensible idea
[19:40] <costyn> chrisstubbs: you could also put a 2 pin header with a jumper to break/make the gps tx
[19:40] <costyn> :)
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> costyn, too slow ;) haha
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> cheers, i will do that :)
[19:40] <costyn> chrisstubbs: or dip switch?
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> nice idea, but dont have any to hand
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[19:41] <chrisstubbs> domlins el-cheapo board so im trying to keep the parts list down
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[19:41] <costyn> I'd put a 2 switch dip on my board, one to make/break gps tx and one for make/break power from battery
[19:41] <costyn> chrisstubbs: I have a bunch at home. I'll sponsor you :)
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> costyn, kind offer of you, but i will just use the jumpers
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> thank you anyway
[19:43] <costyn> chrisstubbs: ok :) but your gps will still be expensive :)
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> £11 delivered ;)
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> NEO6 :)
[19:43] <costyn> noice
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> Getting to grips with eagle now
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> had to look up how to do vias and the gnd plane
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> but remembered the rest :)
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[19:49] <chrisstubbs> uh oh, spoke to soon
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> board and schematic are not consistent!
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> i deleted the resistors and replaced them with jumpers in the schematic
[19:57] <arko> https://twitter.com/HABEX2
[19:58] <costyn> chrisstubbs: nice
[19:58] <costyn> arko: exciting stuff
[19:58] <arko> :)
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> arko following you :)
[19:58] <arko> woot!
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> costyn, how do i un cock up the board and schematic are not consistent! thing?
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> i now understand why you should not close either file while editing the other
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[20:03] <costyn> chrisstubbs: no idea. Never used eagle to be honest :)
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> sorted it now, just had to delete everything i changed on both
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> im off out, thanks for the help everyone!
[20:04] <costyn> chrisstubbs: cya
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[20:42] <Laurenceb_> sup
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> hey
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[21:14] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:15] <fsphil> evening sir.c
[21:16] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:16] <lz1dev> #include "evening.h'
[21:17] <jcoxon> so you remember the annoying radio reset every 20 strings on the last pico?
[21:17] <fsphil> warning: missing terminating " character
[21:18] <fsphil> yea and I didn't even receive it
[21:18] <jcoxon> well its staying
[21:18] <fsphil> good good
[21:18] <jcoxon> but how about we put 5 second uplink window
[21:18] <jcoxon> just before
[21:18] <fsphil> I wouldn't trust the rfm22b without it
[21:19] <fsphil> definitely, if the capability is there then it would be silly not to
[21:19] <jcoxon> the issue would be drift
[21:20] <jcoxon> needs some testing
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[21:23] <Upu> evening jcoxon
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[21:41] <number10> jcoxon: add a couple or so extra $ for the first string after radio reset
[21:41] <jcoxon> okay
[21:42] <fsphil> or nulls
[21:43] <jcoxon> done
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[21:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Provisional Launch Announcement - HABE 7 - Wednesday (13/03)"
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[22:01] <arko> aww, everyone must be asleep now
[22:01] <Elwell> or out partying
[22:02] <mfa298> or out drinking
[22:02] <arko> oh yeah! it's friday
[22:02] <Elwell> just us saddos playing with geojson at home
[22:02] <arko> i shall drink tonight
[22:02] <arko> i need to do my school lab stuff tonight at least, might as well drink
[22:03] <arko> Drinking + VHDL
[22:03] <arko> what could go wrong
[22:03] <mfa298> if you get the ratio right magic code that works but no one understands
[22:06] <arko> haha
[22:06] <arko> artisan coding
[22:10] <Adam012> Hi all
[22:10] <Adam012> Artisan coding?
[22:11] <fsphil> coding is an art
[22:11] <Adam012> Yes, messy and takes an age to clean up after.
[22:11] <fsphil> not at all
[22:11] <fsphil> code can look great
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[22:11] <fsphil> visually and in function
[22:12] <fsphil> in the same way as a photo or painting
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[22:12] <fsphil> and a lot of it is just scribbles :)
[22:13] <Adam012> I remember the old demo scene on the Amiga. I miss those simple days sometimes. Monkey Island, the lamp and teapot.
[22:13] <fsphil> heck yea
[22:13] <Adam012> It was amazing what some people could get out of just a few kb
[22:13] <fsphil> I still like to load up C64 and Amiga demos
[22:14] <Adam012> I need to get a decent emulator. The Amiga was an awesome computer.
[22:14] <fsphil> if you've the space, they're not too expensive these days
[22:15] <arko> i always try to aim for clean and self explainitory code
[22:15] <Adam012> It's the space. We have a toddler, he likes to pull on wires. Computers are hidden things at the moment.
[22:15] <arko> minimize comments
[22:15] <arko> etc
[22:15] <fsphil> aaah yes
[22:15] <Randomskk> minimising comments isn't the same as clean code D:
[22:15] <fsphil> not a place for an amiga :)
[22:15] <arko> Randomskk very tru
[22:15] <Upu> hey Adam012
[22:15] <arko> its not
[22:16] <arko> but writing clean and understandable code can lead to less comments
[22:16] <Randomskk> sure
[22:16] <Randomskk> though ideally the comments explain why you're doing a thing, not how, so even the clearest code still needs the same comments :P
[22:17] <fsphil> /* no idea what this does... */
[22:17] <mfa298> I've had the problem that code I've written makes sense to be and as far as I'm concerned the code documents itself well. But others haven't agreed with me.
[22:18] <mfa298> But that was perl code
[22:18] <Randomskk> ah, perl..
[22:18] <mfa298> I blame the lack of comprehension on the people who couldn't understand the code :p
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[22:20] <mfa298> although some perl code really does need documentation - or purging with fire
[22:20] <mfa298> e.g. http://totl.net/PerlContest/
[22:20] <Randomskk> s/some //
[22:20] <Randomskk> all perl is line noise
[22:21] <Randomskk> I enjoy that you can say like $[=1; to swap to 1-based indexing in arrays
[22:21] <Randomskk> that's mental
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[22:25] <mfa298> my own perl code is generally a lot more readable than that
[22:26] <Adam012> Horizon 2 is postponed until Saturday 23rd March 2013 - Awful weather predicted for tomorrow.
[22:26] <fsphil> bad here too unless I want to land in Upu's garden
[22:26] <Adam012> We've also hit problems with our sensor array. The SD card library does not play nicely with the SD card library.
[22:27] <Randomskk> oh no :(
[22:27] <Randomskk> I hate it when things don't play with themselves well
[22:27] <Adam012> Ha
[22:28] <Adam012> I'll take a look at it again next week.
[22:28] <arko> Randomskk: exactly!
[22:28] <arko> short and simple descriptions
[22:28] <arko> sometimes you add more if needed
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[22:39] <griffonbot> Received email: A. Coghlan "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Horizon 2 - 23rd March - Walsall, UK"
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[23:05] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 9 2013