highaltitude.log.20130306

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[00:12] <SpeedEvil> there is an important urgent launch opportunity
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[00:12] <SpeedEvil> someone needs to drop an orange smoke grenade down the Vatican chimney at the appropriate moment
[00:13] <mattbrejza> how easy do you think it is to get a notam for the vatican state?
[00:13] <Randomskk> I wonder if they control their own airspace
[00:14] <Randomskk> let's hope the homing glider people get their act together rsn
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[00:16] <jonsowman> I bet paying for the NOTAM would be a nightmare. I hear they only accept papal.
[00:17] <Randomskk> I swear
[00:17] <Randomskk> I will write a system to identify and classify bad puns
[00:17] <Randomskk> the #ha corpus is the only training data I will require
[00:17] Action: K9JKM says "!!!!"
[00:17] <Randomskk> and I will hook it to a bot that will automatically kick you
[00:17] <jonsowman> haha
[00:17] <Randomskk> and then it will go over to your house
[00:17] <Randomskk> and replace your internet connection with 300 baud dialup
[00:18] <jonsowman> :|
[00:18] <Randomskk> maybe have a "pun offenders register"
[00:18] <Randomskk> every time you join an irc room it will pop in and let everyone know you're a terrible person
[00:18] <jonsowman> that'd work
[00:19] <Randomskk> wait for it
[00:19] <Randomskk> honestly I wish I were better at coming up with creative punishments.
[00:19] <jonsowman> lol
[00:19] <jonsowman> dear me
[00:19] <jonsowman> I think it's bedtime
[00:19] <Randomskk> hmm yes
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[06:40] <x-f> Upu, pong
[06:43] <arko> woot, got 6 stations working today
[06:43] <arko> people are learning to use their radios and sdr's :D
[06:43] <Upu> morning x-f
[06:43] <arko> at this rate we can have more rtty folks in the US :P
[06:43] <x-f> morning
[06:44] <Upu> I think the answer is no but if you get a sec
[06:44] <Upu> can you have a read through this and tell us if it says you can't use amateur radio frequencies in the air :
[06:44] <Upu> http://www.likumi.lv/doc.php?id=174973
[06:44] <Upu> ta
[06:44] <Upu> no rush
[06:44] <Upu> but my Latvian isn't great
[06:45] <x-f> Upu, it doesn't say anything about that
[06:46] <x-f> i already checked that and some other rules, but found nothing
[06:46] <Upu> hmm
[06:46] <Upu> from Vases.lv
[06:46] <Upu> egarding your e-mail enquiry of 21 February, I wish to inform you that operation of amateur radio transmitters in Latvian airspace is forbidden.
[06:46] <x-f> hmm
[06:47] <x-f> well, i sent an email last week to vases.lv, but haven't got any response yet
[06:47] <Upu> ok thanks
[06:48] <x-f> i asked HAMs also, but they didn't know either and said "go ahead, nobody will notice anyway"
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[06:53] <Upu> lolo
[06:53] <Upu> it sort of puts a balloon on APRS.fi :)
[07:00] <x-f> i don't think there's a lot of traffic coming from here to that site :)
[07:00] <x-f> your map is still very yellow, are you sending emails to every country's authorities?
[07:02] <Upu> working around
[07:02] <Upu> its quite complex as most countries forbid it but then have exemptions for meterological balloons
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[07:26] <x-f> "Latvian league of radioamateurs" did not respond either from last week
[07:26] <x-f> it's like they don't know, or it's a secret
[07:27] <x-f> Upu, you got that likumi.lv link from Vases?
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[07:28] <x-f> i've seen some document that states, that radio amateurs cannot use their station on an airplane (iirc)
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[07:43] <UpuWork> yes x-f
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[07:57] <nosebleedkt> Hi
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> :D
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> now that boss missing i don't have balloon to watch
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> fsphil, did Kevin gave a whole album link for his photographs
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> ?
[08:04] <daveake> I don't think he did
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[08:50] <fsphil> boss missing? oh noes!
[08:52] <Laurenceb_> LIKE A BOSS
[08:52] <fsphil> you're fired
[08:52] <Laurenceb_> good
[08:53] <Laurenceb_> i didnt want to spend the next two years sitting at a desk in the corner
[08:53] <fsphil> my corner has a window, so I'm happy
[08:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/382118/Apprentice-star-Lord-Sugar-gave-me-a-sham-job-as-his-100-000-lackey
[08:54] <fsphil> it's a window into a canteen, so not as happy as I could be
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[09:09] <domlin> hello all
[09:10] <fsphil> howdy individual
[09:10] <daveake> greetings one
[09:11] <daveake> Blimey getting a lot of pingbacks from that Pi camera article
[09:11] <daveake> ignore wrong chan
[09:18] <Darkside> lol
[09:18] <domlin> how is everyone
[09:19] <fsphil> mostly intact I think
[09:20] <daveake> still recovering from yesterday
[09:21] <domlin> what happened yesterday? :o
[09:21] <daveake> An important moment in HAB history, of course :)
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[09:22] <domlin> aha I must have missed this
[09:23] <daveake> Lunar launched and recovered his very first HABB flight. He even joined the select few that recovered a wet landing.
[09:24] <domlin> ah wow!
[09:24] <daveake> And the telemetry all worked; even the cutdown worked though it took a time to cut the line
[09:26] <Darkside> he should have put a plush pig on it
[09:26] <domlin> haha
[09:27] <HixWork> what is it with the price of 2.54 and 1.25mm crimp connections, whay are they so damn costly?
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[10:08] <griffonbot> @Rapidonline: RT @daveake: Video of the preparations, launch and recovery of TARDIS / Pi In The Sky #raspberrypi #UKHAS http://t.co/SEvsNjQohY [http://twitter.com/Rapidonline/status/309244010025848832]
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[10:11] <chrisstubbs> currently watching someone draw a spreadsheet in AutoCAD
[10:11] <chrisstubbs> someone save me.
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[10:19] <fsphil> oh dear
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[10:27] <SpeedEvil> well, it does have lisp
[10:28] <cuddykid> and the donkey sets off& got a shipment coming via 'china post' - wonder how long it will take this time
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[11:04] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Morning all, a question on CAA permission if I may.
[11:05] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Is the paperwork done for the launch or the flight, or both?
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[11:06] <Ciemon-G0TRT> I have a Met Office site near me, and they're happy for me to launch from there. "Luckily" it's inside the Salisbury Plain danger area.
[11:06] <nick_> Launch next to Cresent Wood?
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[11:08] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Not sure I know where Cresent Wood is, but the Met Office launch site is in Larkhill, just north of Stonehenge
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[11:17] <mattbrejza> the MET office will have a standing notam to launch so you should need one providing you stay in the limits (as in launch times) set by the notam
[11:17] <fsphil> Ciemon-G0TRT: both I suspect
[11:18] <fsphil> but what mattbrejza said
[11:18] <fsphil> shouldn't though
[11:18] <_markh_> I'm just getting started with a new interest in HAB and am building a payload as part of a team. I'm having trouble (understatement) tx'ng RTTY via an RFM22B to SDR# / dl-fldigi ... :( SDR# appears to work fine with my USB dongle as I can listen to commercial radio stations and dl-fldigi gets audio from SDR# via Virtual Audio Cables... The RFM22B is controlled by an Arduino. I'm really...
[11:18] <_markh_> ...not sure whether the problem is with my use of SDR#, dl-fldigi or a coding issue. Using SDR# I see a spike roughly (but not exactly) where my payload should be and if I move the tuning line to just off the centre I hear a tone. When I TX this tone 'warbles' and I see signal in the dl-fldigi waterfall. Some advice/help on where to look would be appreciated...
[11:18] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Thanks :)
[11:20] <eroomde> that's a very nice sitation to be in Ciemon-G0TRT
[11:20] <fsphil> interestingly the met office sites don't have a notam, just the permission
[11:20] <HixWork> _markh_, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker?s[]=sdr should see you right
[11:20] <fsphil> or exception even
[11:21] <Elwell> Ciemon-G0TRT: are they only letting you launch so that the army can practice shooting it down?
[11:21] <_markh_> Sorry, I should have said. I have been using that guide extensively and (think) I've done everything....
[11:21] <Darkside> fsphil: Utopia keeps getting better and better
[11:21] <HixWork> _markh_, have you calibrated the dongle? Mine was slightly off and caused a lot of trouble as such over the weekend
[11:22] <fsphil> Darkside: cool, I'll have to check it this weekend. doesn't seem like the kind of show I'd normally watch
[11:22] <Darkside> its a bit odd
[11:22] <Darkside> but very good
[11:22] <_markh_> HixWork, No, I've not calibrated it. How do I do that?
[11:22] <eroomde> _markh_: i fear your question might be a bit heavyweight to get extensive help at the moment
[11:23] <eroomde> ah right, too late
[11:23] <mfa298> _markh_: have you aligned the red lines on dl-fldigi with the signal in dl-fldigi
[11:24] <HixWork> _markh_, I found a known signal and set the dongle to that then its a case of manually changing the frequency correction (ppm) in the configure dialog from SDR#
[11:24] <fsphil> my ppm in gqrx is set to -60 for the rtl-sdr
[11:26] <_markh_> I'll recalibrate in a moment. Am I correct in believing that I have to set the red line off centre to generate a contatnt (unmoduklated) tone?
[11:27] <HixWork> you may need to open up the filter bandwidth too what is is currently?
[11:27] <mfa298> The red lines in dl-fldigi indicate where the two tones are, so should line up with the signal lines your seeing in the waterfall
[11:27] <mfa298> as you're testing you'll need to set rtty paramaters manually
[11:27] <HixWork> in SDR sharp you need to be on the red line
[11:28] <_markh_> mfa298, what do you mean 'aligned the red lines'? I have clicked on the centre of the waterfall signal in dl-fldigi
[11:28] <_markh_> filter is 2400
[11:28] <HixWork> can you hear the RTTY from SDR#?
[11:29] <fsphil> a screenshot might help
[11:29] <Laurenceb> eroomde: how goes the parafoil?
[11:29] <HixWork> me? in a box :/
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[11:30] <mfa298> _markh_: on dl-fldigi you should see two lines that you're recieving, There should then be two vertical red lines that move when you click in the waterfall
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[11:31] <mfa298> those red lines should be over the recieved signal (you can change their width by changing the carrier shift setting)
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[11:31] <mfa298> although as fsphil said some screenshots would help
[11:31] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Elwell: I do hope not! I think we'd only launch when they're not firing.
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[11:32] <mfa298> and now todays productivity might drop, my funcube dongle has arrived :D
[11:32] <HixWork> heh, Sailsbury range not an ideal place to be when live :)
[11:32] <_markh_> OK, Let me grab a few screen shots and get right back. I really appreciate the help ...
[11:32] <fsphil> mfa298: yay!
[11:33] <fsphil> radio sometimes confuses me. I have a payload here on the office, which is a big metal building. between here and my house is a huge hill, but despite all this my radio at home can still receive and decode the payload sitting on my desk here
[11:33] <Darkside> knife edge refraction
[11:33] <Ciemon-G0TRT> HixWork: it's actually very easy to find out when they're shooting, and quite some time in advance.
[11:33] <Darkside> or ducting
[11:33] <Darkside> one or the other
[11:33] <fsphil> would ducting happen within a few km?
[11:34] <Darkside> sure
[11:34] <fsphil> I know for sure it isn't LOS
[11:34] <Darkside> might be knife-edge then
[11:34] <fsphil> I've been on top of this building, you can't see over the hill
[11:34] <HixWork> Ciemon-G0TRT, i wasn't being literal :)
[11:34] <Darkside> you can probably test that by moving closer to the hill
[11:34] <Darkside> maybe
[11:35] <Ciemon-G0TRT> :)
[11:36] <fsphil> we tried 2.4ghz links between here and my house a while back, it got nothing
[11:38] <Ciemon-G0TRT> fsphil: Indoor antennas?
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[11:39] <mfa298> 2.4Ghz is a pain over longer links
[11:40] <mfa298> I almost got a connection over ~4km once but that had LOS
[11:40] <fsphil> Ciemon-G0TRT: outdoor
[11:40] <fsphil> but not LOS
[11:42] <_markh_> OK. There's an screenshot of SDR# at http://imagebin.org/249170 . Some advice on whether that looks good is appreciated
[11:43] <craag> _markh_: Looks like RTTY to me! A screenshot of dl-fldigi might also be useful.
[11:45] <mfa298> _markh_: what do you see in dl-fldigi ?
[11:45] <_markh_> Will do. But those lines are there whether I'm transmitting anything or not. I mean as long as I'm tx'ing an unmodulated carrier...
[11:46] <_markh_> WIll prep a dl-fldigi image now ...
[11:47] <mfa298> _markh_: you might also want to get a later version of sdr# (I think the recommendation is to grab the dev/nightly build) - But you'll probably be ok with that build for now
[11:51] <craag> That build should be fine. It's just performance improvements since then. I've actually gone back to build 1000 as I've had a few crashes with the Dev version.
[11:54] <_markh_> The dl-fldigi RTTY settings are shown at http://imagebin.org/249172 and the dl-fldigi screenshot at http://imagebin.org/249174 You can see in the waterfall the gap between no transmission and when the Arduino starts bit banging...
[11:55] <craag> _markh_: You need to open up the shift on the RTTY modem until the two red lines are over the wide orange ones.
[11:55] <craag> Change carrier shift to about 470hz
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[11:58] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Ahh, so carrier shift is how you change that. Tnx
[11:58] <mfa298> you might also want to check your frequency 432 (as suggested by the sdr
[11:59] <mfa298> sdr# screen cap is outside of the ism band)
[12:00] <craag> Ciemon-G0TRT: You can get a long way with weak signals by changing the Shift (through Custom Shift) to be exactly right, and then putting the receive filter bandwidth down to 50-60 hz.
[12:01] <craag> Most people will set up the shift on their transmitter to be exactly 350hz or something at launch, but it tends to change a bit with temperature during the flight.
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[12:01] <_markh_> And there we have it! :) Thank you very much for your help.. The mistake was (as always) in my misunderstanding as I was setting the dl-fldigi value to the primary tone, rather than centreing on the two.
[12:01] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Excellent stuff.
[12:02] <craag> _markh_: Receiving strings now?
[12:02] <_markh_> The frequency is just a bit random (I was using one inside the ISM band) but was truying everything I could think of to change ....
[12:02] <_markh_> Yes, receiving strings - thank you :)
[12:03] <eroomde> the power of irc
[12:03] <eroomde> sorry for doubting it!
[12:04] <_markh_> I'm just using a short piece of wire as the antenna for the Dongle and no antenna at all for the RFM22 atm. What kind of desk setup should I use for testing ideally?
[12:04] <eroomde> that's completely fine for bench testing
[12:04] <eroomde> a wet noodle would do the job to be honest
[12:04] <craag> _markh_: I tend to use a 1/4 wave piece of wire on the rfm22b, and nothing on the rtl-sdr.
[12:04] <_markh_> I'm Seeing a bit of data corruption - even at 50baud
[12:04] <eroomde> but for tracking real flight you'll want something a bit better. a 1/4 wave with ground plane, much like you have on the balloon, is typical and fine 99% of the time
[12:05] <eroomde> you can get a bit more reach with a colinear (the watson W-50 is popular with habbers)
[12:05] <eroomde> and a yagi on a pan-tilt mount if you want some real artillery
[12:07] <Elwell> straightened (with a bend on the end) paperclips work remarkably well in a FCD for bench testing (and can be tuned with wirecutters to a nice range)
[12:07] <craag> For testing it's a good idea to have some sort of antenna on the transmitter, so it's got somewhere for the power to go, but you'll very rarely need any antenna on the receiver at such short range.
[12:08] <Elwell> do people find that their SDR dongles work much better in a USB extension away from laptop?
[12:08] <craag> Elwell: yes, noticeable improvement with mine.
[12:18] <_markh_> Well, I'm not at my PC atm (the power of logmein.com) so can't tweak the antenna. But I'll have a go this eve. Thanks for all your help so far ...
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[12:50] <HixWork> WOW! just been looking at the 8 channel USB logic analyser jonsowman recommended yesterday
[12:51] <jonsowman> the saleae?
[12:51] <HixWork> That looks genius for testing and devleoping stuff
[12:51] <HixWork> yeah
[12:51] <jonsowman> yeah it's fantastic
[12:51] <jonsowman> can't recommend it highly enough
[12:51] <HixWork> you could probably spend a whole year probing stuff to see whats happening
[12:51] <jonsowman> I may have done so...
[12:52] <HixWork> I imagine it's great for poking around stuff to see how it all works?
[12:52] <jonsowman> connected it to my car's CAN bus
[12:52] <HixWork> heh, what were you looking for?
[12:52] <jonsowman> nothing really
[12:52] <jonsowman> just messing around
[12:52] <fsphil> I had one wired up to a C64, just to see if it would work
[12:52] <HixWork> just coz oyu could
[12:52] <jonsowman> yep
[12:53] <HixWork> heh, I'm gonna get me one of them bad boys :)
[12:53] <jonsowman> they are worth it imo
[12:53] <jonsowman> the software is great too
[12:53] <HixWork> I reckon, just to learn stuff
[12:53] <fsphil> the real ones, not the fake ones btw :)
[12:53] <jonsowman> yes indeed
[12:54] <jonsowman> their customer support is very good as well
[12:54] <HixWork> fake one? how much is the real one then?
[12:54] <jonsowman> http://www.saleae.com/logic
[12:54] <jonsowman> I have this one
[12:55] <NigelMoby> mm jons buying me 1 :p
[12:55] <jonsowman> the logic16 can do 16 channels and up to 100MHz
[12:55] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: lol
[12:55] <NigelMoby> excellent kit for the price
[12:55] <jonsowman> it is
[12:55] <jonsowman> and I feel sorry for Saleae when they've put so much time and effort in and then people just sell cheap clones
[12:56] <HixWork> oh so €119 is the genuine jobby
[12:56] <jonsowman> HixWork: yes that sounds about right
[12:56] <fsphil> with their name on it
[12:56] <fsphil> it's just rude
[12:56] <jonsowman> you can buy the real ones from resellers, which can be cheaper
[12:56] <HixWork> ahh good, thought i was looking at a fake and the real deal was >1000
[12:56] <HixWork> I'll look
[12:56] <HixWork> maybe through work, so not VAT too
[12:56] <jonsowman> handy
[12:57] <NigelMoby> that'll help
[12:57] <HixWork> always worth a go...
[12:57] <jonsowman> yep
[12:57] <fsphil> they come in a handy case too
[12:57] <jonsowman> and with clips etc
[12:57] <jonsowman> it's really very nicely presented
[12:57] <HixWork> I'm a sucker for cases and bags. Everything big should come in a pelicase :)
[12:57] <NigelMoby> any odd quirks with the software Jon?
[12:58] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: not really
[12:58] <jonsowman> I had one issue where it kept segfaulting under OSX
[12:58] <NigelMoby> ahh
[12:58] <jonsowman> and one of their support team spent a lot of time with me working out what was wrong
[12:58] <jonsowman> very impressed with customer service
[12:59] <jonsowman> turned out to be my laptop being weird, so it wasn't even their fault
[12:59] <NigelMoby> blimey that's customer support how it should be done!
[12:59] <mfa298> having support that will spend the time with a customer to try and fix a bug is always a good sign
[12:59] <jonsowman> definitely
[12:59] <NigelMoby> so many times you find good hardware only to be let down by crap software
[13:00] <jonsowman> true - this is definitely not one of those times though
[13:00] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: the software is free - download it and try it
[13:00] <jonsowman> it runs in demo mode
[13:00] <jonsowman> http://www.saleae.com/downloads
[13:00] <NigelMoby> Ohh I'm there!
[13:01] <NigelMoby> linux too .. that's me sold!
[13:01] <jonsowman> native linux support is nice
[13:01] <mfa298> is there much difference between the 8 and 16 channel versions (other than channels and cost)
[13:01] <zyp> voltage levels
[13:02] <zyp> and buffer size and max speed
[13:02] <fsphil> yea, the logic8 doesn't do 1.8v
[13:02] <zyp> 16 channel version can work with 1.8V logic and IIRC can sample at up to 100 MHz if you limit to three channels
[13:03] Action: mfa298 probably shouldn't go buying more toys
[13:03] <jonsowman> logic8 "May work with 1.8V but not recommended"
[13:03] <fsphil> it's also very tiny mfa298 :)
[13:03] <jonsowman> 2.0V is fine though
[13:03] <jonsowman> http://www.saleae.com/logic/specs
[13:04] <fsphil> do pay attention to the warning in the manual about grounding
[13:04] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:04] <Laurenceb> hopefully that would be obvious
[13:04] <mfa298> I shall have to spend some time looking through the specs then and see what makes more sense (and probably let the back account recover)
[13:05] <HixWork> I should find a book on logic analysing first methinks
[13:05] <Laurenceb> your logic is flawless
[13:05] <jonsowman> lol
[13:05] <mfa298> I'd started looking last night but hadn't done much comparison between then yet
[13:06] <number10> I just had a demo from of the 16 channel one from someone at work. its quite nice
[13:06] <mfa298> but having spent time trying to work out why things didn't work I can see it would be *very* useful
[13:06] <fsphil> it helped me solve some problems with the ublox recently
[13:06] <zyp> I'm pretty happy with my logic8
[13:06] <jonsowman> ditto
[13:06] <number10> has decodes for 12C SPI and serial
[13:07] <jonsowman> and more
[13:07] <zyp> today I would probably buy a logic16 instead
[13:07] <jonsowman> though those are the most commonly used
[13:07] <number10> It seems quite easy to use
[13:07] <fsphil> it is
[13:08] <fsphil> software is often an afterthought, but they've done it right
[13:08] <number10> yes
[13:09] <number10> I have one of the first tektronix oscilloscopes with software interface - and its horrible to use
[13:10] <daveake> Yeah I bought my Salae after seeing/trying the s/w. That sold it for me.
[13:10] <number10> has the saleae 16 got a faster sample rate
[13:10] <daveake> yes
[13:10] <fsphil> 100mhz
[13:10] <number10> compared to the 8
[13:11] <number10> where did you buy yours from daveake
[13:11] <daveake> Proto-pic I think
[13:11] <fsphil> 2 channels at 100mhz anyway
[13:12] <daveake> I've not missed the higher speed. For SPI/I2C you can just slow it down if you need (assuming that doesn't fix whatever's wrong)
[13:12] <jonsowman> I've not needed anything >24MHz
[13:12] <number10> I probably wouldnt either
[13:12] <zyp> I've ran into situations where 24MHz is too slow
[13:20] <number10> does anyone have a recomendation for a python book (I know there are online tutorials)
[13:21] <Randomskk> learn python the hard way is apparently often good
[13:21] <number10> cheers Randomskk
[13:22] <daveake> +1
[13:24] <Randomskk> chipping in to the saleae logic discussion
[13:24] <Randomskk> I got a logic when that's what it was called, back in 2008
[13:24] <Randomskk> it was fantastic then, used it for a ton of stuff
[13:24] <Randomskk> eventually it broke, may have touched ground to +ve or something
[13:25] <Randomskk> anyway they next-dayed me a new one free of charge
[13:25] <Steffanx> :)
[13:25] <Randomskk> it's super super good
[13:25] <Randomskk> having said that now I have a DSO I often find myself using that first to debug stuff as it's self contained and shows problems with the analogue signals
[13:25] <number10> thats good
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[13:26] <Randomskk> so like the other day jon and I were getting a DS18B20 working
[13:26] <domlin> HAI
[13:26] <Randomskk> and it just wasn't reporting temperatures or whatever
[13:26] <Randomskk> first thing was the scope
[13:26] <Randomskk> check voltage levels were correct, immediately noticed the timing looked a bit dodgy
[13:26] <Randomskk> turns out the library had hardcoded delays for 8MHz and the arduino was doing 16MHz so everything was twice as fast as the ds18b20 could take
[13:26] <Randomskk> you'd have spotted that with the logic too, admittedly
[13:27] <jonsowman> also only one channel to examine
[13:27] <Randomskk> indeed
[13:27] <Randomskk> like, the logic analyser is hugely worth having
[13:27] <Randomskk> and I did get mine before a scope
[13:27] <fsphil> yea, the logic is good for serial where you can see the full conversation
[13:27] <Randomskk> but in retrospect I'd probably still want a DSO before the LA
[13:27] <zyp> scopes and LAs complement rather than compete with each other
[13:27] <Randomskk> definitely
[13:27] <Randomskk> still would get a scope first
[13:28] <Randomskk> for most things
[13:28] <fsphil> some DSOs are also LAs
[13:28] <Randomskk> yea
[13:28] <Darkside> rigols
[13:28] <Randomskk> the expensive ones >.>
[13:28] <Randomskk> the rigols do LA?
[13:28] <Darkside> the newer rigol ones can do LA stuff
[13:28] <Darkside> yeah
[13:28] <Randomskk> intereting
[13:28] <Randomskk> +s
[13:28] <Darkside> it costs extra
[13:28] <Darkside> but yes
[13:28] <number10> I quite like the look of the scope daveake boaght last year - but hab budget - so will have to stick with my analogue storage scope for now
[13:28] <Darkside> the newer digital phosphor ones do it
[13:28] <Randomskk> I'd probably still want something like Logic for the LA part. it's very good at what it does and having it connected to a computer by default is handy
[13:28] <Darkside> yeah
[13:29] <Darkside> the rigols will connect to a comptuer too, but yes
[13:29] <Darkside> Logic is smaller
[13:29] <zyp> I have both a logic8 and a scope, but if I had to choose, I'd probably pick the logic over the scope
[13:29] <Darkside> we had a rigol rep come and show us all teh cool stuff
[13:29] <Randomskk> what do you mainly use them for?
[13:29] <Darkside> i think the scope we were looking at was about $700
[13:29] <daveake> zyp ditto
[13:30] <daveake> But then my typical use is getting some new random device to talk to a micro, so it's ideal for that
[13:30] <zyp> for my use, a 8-channel LA is usually much more useful than a 2-channel scope
[13:32] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/E89bM.png <- looking at 4-bit SD interfacing, for instance
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[13:57] <domlin> i wonder if this could be modified for use on a HAB? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-GPS-u-blox-B39-PCI-5S-PCI-Express-Wireless-Card-/250866889973?pt=UK_Computing_NetworkCards_RL&hash=item3a68d4f4f5
[14:00] <fsphil> not much use over a regular ubloc
[14:00] <fsphil> x
[14:01] <daveake> cheap
[14:01] <fsphil> it is that
[14:01] <daveake> hassle factor > price saving IMO
[14:01] <fsphil> agreed
[14:03] <domlin> what would the extra hastle be?
[14:03] <HixWork> that could be useful in a laptop or netbook to give lat lon for a chase app, mabye using open streetmaps downloaded so offline use....
[14:03] <mfa298> could be useful for a laptop (if it's got a suitable socket) to allow you to use dl-fldigi in its mobile mode (if it works)
[14:03] <mfa298> HixWork: great minds (or something like that)
[14:03] <domlin> i've just seen how cheap the balloons reccomended for pico launches are
[14:03] <domlin> looking to do a properly budget launch
[14:05] <HixWork> most laptops and netbooks have a mini pciexpress slot spare i think
[14:06] <mfa298> I'm not sure my netbook does but thats a couple of years old now
[14:06] <mfa298> but I'd hope a decent laptop might have a spare slot
[14:08] <HixWork> mine has, though I was going to fill it with a 3g miniPCI
[14:08] <HixWork> actually I am, I've got a BT338 gps that runs for about 2 days on charge so that can provide locn and 3G to keep dl-fldigi live on chase
[14:11] <domlin> sounds good :)
[14:11] <domlin> I know the ublox chips are a bloody good deal from Upu
[14:11] Action: HixWork pats himself on the back for avoiding another random ebay purchase, by talking himself out of it
[14:11] <domlin> but im interested to see quite how cheap I can do a successful launch
[14:12] <mattbrejza> that card also lacks an antenna it seems
[14:13] <mfa298> HixWork: snap on the BT338, seems like a decent bit of kit. I solved the 3G issue with a 3G router as well - although car to car wifi didn't seem to work well last time.
[14:13] <domlin> yeah i'd break it out and connect it to another board, wouldnt want to tey and desolder the ublox :P
[14:13] <domlin> try*
[14:15] <HixWork> mfa298, had one for years, always gets a lock in record time
[14:15] <HixWork> tracked my flight from YVR to LHR with it kjammed under the sun visor on the window :)
[14:16] <mfa298> i only picked this one up at a radio rally a couple of weeks ago but seems to be nice.
[14:16] <mfa298> although ideally I need to work out why the built in bluetooth on my netbook isn't working
[14:17] <HixWork> battery life is awesome, it is after all mostly a battery :)
[14:17] <mfa298> works ok if I plug in a bluetooth dongle
[14:17] <HixWork> bios?
[14:20] <mfa298> I suspect the cable is loose inside after the last upgrade I did
[14:20] <HixWork> ahhh maybe card not seated properly?
[14:21] <mfa298> at some point I'll attack it with a screw driver but it's not too much of a problem at the moment
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[14:52] <domlin> guys, just wondering, do people use the disposable helium canisters? they seem very cheap
[14:53] <gonzo_> they are convenient for foil pico flights
[14:53] <craag> domlin: I do for pico flights, but they don't hold much helium (0.33m^3)
[14:53] <fsphil> they're not very big
[14:53] <russss> they are not cheap for the amount of helium in them
[14:55] <domlin> yeah I was thinking of doing a few pico's with one
[14:56] <gonzo_> depends how many flights you are going to do. A big bottle is cheaper by vol of gas, but if you end up having it for ages, the monthly bottle rental can be costly
[14:58] <domlin> hmm, for me its 99.95 for a 1.81m3 cylinder
[14:58] <Elwell> but the trouble with big cylinders is lugging them to the site
[14:58] <gonzo_> the 36" foil's take 0.1cu mtr of gas. But usually they are pnly partially filled. So a throw away bottle could do a couple of pico flights
[14:58] <domlin> with 9 quid per week over the 28 days
[14:59] <Elwell> http://www.flickr.com/photos/elwell/6184838050/
[14:59] <domlin> yeah the disposables say they are 0.25m3
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[14:59] <gonzo_> and getting big He bottkles has become difficult recently (someone may update on that)
[14:59] <domlin> my work has a hell of a lot of helium
[14:59] <Elwell> domlin: yeah, so do we :-)
[15:00] <gonzo_> a foil will fit is most cars when filled
[15:00] <domlin> they would probably give me a canister
[15:00] <domlin> but I think i'm going to get a disposeable and some pico balloons
[15:01] <domlin> see how cheap I can make this launch :P
[15:01] <Elwell> hmm, I wonder if any if their 140 tons is available :-)
[15:04] <domlin> wish I could use nitrogen, they generate that on site ha
[15:07] <fsphil> Elwell: been meaning to ask. is it captured after use, or released?
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[15:07] <fsphil> guessing it starts life as liquid
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[15:11] <domlin> Hydrogen seems easier... just slightly more dangerous?
[15:12] <fsphil> wouldn't say easier. more precautions needed
[15:12] <fsphil> cheaper
[15:12] <fsphil> lots cheaper
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[15:13] <domlin> I think i can do two pico launches for about £100
[15:14] <mfa298> just remember for pico the weight for your payload is more limited and it won't go as high
[15:16] <NigeyS> domlin, some good info / data about pico flights here, http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[15:17] <fsphil> picos are very unpredictible
[15:18] <domlin> thanks for the help guys, it's going to be an experiment more than anything, and wont cost too much so doesnt matter if it goes pear shaped :)
[15:18] <domlin> and thanks NigeyS ill bookmark that
[15:18] <fsphil> there's certainly less of a chance you'll get it back
[15:19] <gonzo_> and very easy to overinflate I've found. (Done it twice)
[15:19] <fsphil> in saying all that, I still want to try one :)
[15:20] <NigeyS> yes they are slightly unpredictable, you have a good chance of not seeing it again, and over inflation is likely .. though do have fun :)
[15:20] <domlin> sounds like i've got some chalanges :) i'm sure it will be fine
[15:20] <NigeyS> :)
[15:21] <fsphil> anyone done 300 baud from one?
[15:21] <domlin> i know that chrisstubbs has some launch permissions for most weekends in april in the pipeline with the CAA
[15:21] <NigeyS> i may try it on microchu, its all set for it
[15:21] <domlin> and I know we're going to be doing a normal launch but i'd like to throw some picos up too :)
[15:22] <NigeyS> picos are exempt from the notam requirement as long as you stay under a 2m x 2m limit .. so dont use more than 4 x 36" balloons and you'll be fine
[15:22] <fsphil> 2m in any direction
[15:23] <NigeyS> :p
[15:23] <fsphil> I wonder if you could put something over the foil balloon to keep it from expanding too much
[15:24] <fsphil> would it be more likely to float
[15:24] <fsphil> or super pressure
[15:24] <NigeyS> anything you put on there would just add weight ?
[15:24] <mfa298> or would it get too heavy and not fly
[15:24] <Randomskk> fsphil: just heat seal it more
[15:25] <Randomskk> they're already heat welded aiui?
[15:25] <fsphil> sometimes they split in the middle Randomskk
[15:25] <fsphil> not at the seals
[15:25] <Randomskk> no I mean
[15:25] <Randomskk> if you stick a seam in the middle
[15:25] <Randomskk> the gas can only expand to half the volume
[15:25] <Randomskk> rather than constraining it from the outside
[15:25] <Randomskk> just seal it more to reduce the maximum internal volume
[15:26] <fsphil> constraining it on the outside would spread the pressure a bit more though?
[15:27] <domlin> NigeyS: sorry i'm a little bit in the dark with launches atm, does that mean that I dont need permission to launch a pico?
[15:27] <domlin> as long as its under 2m x 2m?
[15:27] <Randomskk> think you'd just get a lower overall pressure, at the lower equilibrium altitude
[15:27] <fsphil> domlin: 2m in any direction
[15:27] <fsphil> 2m cube would be too big
[15:27] <domlin> okay, makes sense. payload included in that
[15:27] <fsphil> yep
[15:28] <domlin> a 36" balloon would be fine then?
[15:28] <fsphil> 0.9m, yea
[15:28] <domlin> nice :) well i'm off home from work now... been a really productive day :|
[15:28] <domlin> thanks for all your help guys :)
[15:29] <fsphil> lunar didn't launch today, I actually got stuff done
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[15:29] <mfa298> domlin: I'm sure it's been productive, maybe just not in the way your employer expected
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[15:46] <Elwell> fsphil: they've now got enough storage onsite to be able to keep it
[15:48] <Elwell> http://cds.cern.ch/record/1507606/files/CERN-ATS-2013-002.pdf
[15:55] <fsphil> 140 t .. crikey
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[16:13] <anerDev> hi guys !
[16:17] <mfa298> hi
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[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:54] <number10> hello
[17:54] <arko> hello
[17:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hello
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[17:56] <lz1dev> hello
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[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes it is finally done the flight has been successful and that is good
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:01] <number10> what will you be doing now its all finished Lunar_Lander
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah looking at the data
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> and having some rest
[18:01] <Upu> lol with the number of sensors you had on board see you next year
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:02] <number10> what was the dial frequency of the transmitter Lunar_Lander
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah I had to tune around
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> I think it was 4.074.2 or so
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> on the FT-790R
[18:03] <number10> ok. I tried to receive the signal on a could of German global tuners but did not hear anything
[18:04] <number10> could == couple
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[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
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[18:07] <lz1dev> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/900287439/inspired-with-openduinogsm
[18:07] <lz1dev> anyone seen this?
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> hm
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> no talking today?
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[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey mclane
[19:33] <fsphil> oh the channel's closed now that you've launched :)
[19:33] <daveake> lol
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[19:35] <mclane> Hello Lunar_lander
[19:35] <daveake> In fact, "LOL" has been reclassified. It now means "Lunar's Oernen Launch"
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[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> I got another awesome thing
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> an AVRISPmkII
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:36] <mclane> what do you want to do with it?
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[19:39] <fsphil> it's a better way of programming an AVR
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> Spoke to the CAA again today RE my launch window in april for NSE1 with domlin
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> I want to move from arduinos to standalone AVR chips
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> and also use avrdude and so on
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> Said he cant see a problem and to call back in a week. i guess they have to leave it last miniute to account for any proper flights that may pop up around the time
[19:41] <fsphil> that seems to be the way they work
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> Oh well. Just got to sort helium out :)
[19:42] <fsphil> I had requested this weekend but nothing heard
[19:42] <fsphil> although I'm too busy to launch anyway
[19:42] <fsphil> and predictions are naff
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> fsphil did you chase them up a few times?
[19:42] <fsphil> I'll chase them next week
[19:42] <fsphil> he usually amends the dates
[19:43] <fsphil> the window is for a few weekends
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> yeah mine was for every weekend in april. Im trying to keep on top of them just a little to get it through in time
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> i can see the advantage of picos now!
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[19:49] <fsphil> indeed
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[19:51] <fsphil> a pico launched from here today would head immediately out to the atlantic ocean
[19:51] <fsphil> and never be heard from again :)
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> my predictions are looking kinda rubbish :( http://hourly.chris-stubbs.co.uk/1/
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> hope it all shifts west about 50 miles by april
[19:54] <bertrik> interesting path :)
[19:54] <fsphil> same story here, except scotland instead of channel/london
[19:55] <fsphil> good for a floater though -- heading almost directly over Upu again, towards holland
[19:55] <x-f> chrisstubbs, why only 22 km altitude?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> well because I set that benchmark x-f
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:56] <x-f> :)
[19:58] <daveake> A new HAB SI unit is born
[19:58] <daveake> 1 Lunar = 22km
[19:58] <daveake> Record ~= 2 Lunars
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> exactly
[19:59] <x-f> fsphil's last flight was about 0.8 LD
[20:00] <fsphil> 0.9 ish
[20:00] <fsphil> my personal best is about 1.5
[20:00] <x-f> ok
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> who has the current record again?
[20:01] <fsphil> Mr.HAB
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> the people in California or Darkside or someone else?
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah yea
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> the hams that came to the landing knew of the californian balloon that flew to Morocco
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> seems to have been in a ham magazine
[20:02] <bertrik> What does OERNEN mean?
[20:02] <x-f> eagle?
[20:02] <fsphil> oh sorry, Mondo has the record. Steve is second
[20:03] <daveake> yup
[20:03] <fsphil> 44.3.. sheehs
[20:03] <fsphil> 44.4 rounded up
[20:03] <fsphil> a launch on the equator would stand a better chance of beating that
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[20:04] <fsphil> plus the weather is nicer
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Oernen is swedish for Eagle
[20:04] <bertrik> ah
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and we chose that because there has been an engineer who tried to go to the North Pole by Balloon in 1897
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and his balloon was called Oernen
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and thus Oernen-II
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[20:08] <chrisstubbs> x-f sorry just got back. 22km becuase i only have a 300g balloon. it all seems to work out for the 350-400g payload with 5m/s ascent. Not too worried about altitude as its just a test of the new payload with a camera strapped on
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> really looking forward to it as my first flight though :)
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> just watching lunars flight got me excited haha
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:31] <Joe_____> Hello, I'm Joe. I was just researching parts to use for Weather Balloon project and heard of this IRC. I'd like some assistance and advice with parts to use.
[20:31] <daveake> go on :)
[20:32] <mclane> go ahead
[20:33] <Joe_____> I planned on using it with an Arduino. I can have all the sensors, cameras work except the GPS. I do not how I can trace it up so high. Someone suggested using radio signals which I would have to get ham radio liscense of some sort.
[20:33] <daveake> Which country you in?
[20:34] <Joe_____> I'm from the U.S. on the East Coast.
[20:34] <daveake> OK, generally people over there use APRS, which does need a ham license
[20:35] <Joe_____> Does that mean there is no alternative to that?
[20:35] <daveake> No, you can do the same as we do in the UK, which is a low power license-free transmitter
[20:36] <daveake> Then you will have to do your own receiving, and perhaps get some others to listen/decode the transmissions for you
[20:36] <lz1dev> Joe_____: if you go with APRS you will have the support of the existing network
[20:36] <daveake> The advantage of APRS is that people have receivers set up anyway, so you fly and the APRS network receives for you
[20:37] <Joe_____> I'm a beginner to Radio signals and such. If I were to go with the low power license-free transmitter..would it be difficult to do alone or is there some text I can follow?
[20:37] <daveake> Because we can't use APRS airborne in the UK, we have an alternate system, and we now have plenty of receivers meaning that our flights are well covered
[20:37] <daveake> Search the ukhas.org.uk wiki for NTX2, and for "tracking guide"
[20:38] <daveake> Lots of info there
[20:38] <lz1dev> Joe_____: do consider APRS, you might get someone who has a license to help
[20:38] <daveake> Essentially the processor (Arduino or whatever) receives the GPS data, formats a telemetry string containing position, temperature etc., then transmits over radio
[20:39] <mclane> but if you choose the low power ISM approach, you can do it
[20:39] <mclane> with a small team
[20:40] <mclane> its fun to chase
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[20:42] <Joe_____> I just skimmed over both APRS a little and the low power transmitter... I think I might look more into APRS to see if someone can help, otherwise maybe take on the challenge with the low power. Thank you so much! Very helpful!
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[20:45] <junderwood> Is there anyone around who could update the banner on spacenear.us for the launch tomorrow?
[20:46] <fsphil> I can
[20:46] <junderwood> :)
[20:46] <junderwood> Do you have the e-mail with the frequencies, etc?
[20:47] <fsphil> vortex yea?
[20:47] <junderwood> That's us
[20:47] <fsphil> clogging up the airwaves :) is that all on one balloon?
[20:47] <junderwood> One balloon, two payloads
[20:47] <junderwood> One is only going half way
[20:47] <junderwood> (I hope)
[20:48] <junderwood> each has a backup
[20:48] <Ciemon-G0TRT> daveake: can you help me to understand: <daveake> Because we can't use APRS airborne in the UK.
[20:48] <Ciemon-G0TRT> I presume you mean APRS on Ham Radio freqs, rather than the protocol
[20:48] <mfa298> Ciemon-G0TRT: it's more that we can't use the standard aprs freq (144.8)
[20:49] <mfa298> you could use the protocol on ISM but with the lower power and lack of network there seems little point
[20:49] <Ciemon-G0TRT> yeah thought so. I haven't used APRS for.... 13 years or so, so thought something might have changed
[20:50] <fsphil> junderwood: which ones are being cut-down?
[20:50] <fsphil> I'll separate them
[20:50] <mfa298> I tried listening on 144.8 today to test my new funcube dongle and have been surprised at how little there seemed to be.
[20:50] <junderwood> Vortex and Vortex4
[20:50] <fsphil> ta
[20:51] <Ciemon-G0TRT> mfa298: yeah, I don't hear that much over here. Shame, it has a lot of potential.
[20:51] <craag> mfa298: Really? The winchester digipeater is usually chocked.
[20:52] <craag> Haven't listened in a while though.
[20:52] <mfa298> I tried listening on the 817 as well and didn't hear much there either
[20:52] <mfa298> I was somewhat surprised as well
[20:52] <craag> Maybe they finally fixed the bournemouth? digi that had WIDE7-7..
[20:53] <Ciemon-G0TRT> I have all the kit here for a digi, and a gateway too I guess but... meh
[20:54] <fsphil> junderwood: where are you launching from?
[20:54] <junderwood> CHalgrove
[20:54] <junderwood> Oxfordshire
[20:54] <craag> I ran a gateway and fill-in digi for a while, but it only picked up a true APRS mobile station about twice a week.
[20:54] <junderwood> (close to where we were testing the balloons this afternoon :)
[20:54] <junderwood> s/balloons/payloads
[20:55] <craag> Most of it was homestations as far away as yorkshire that had 7-7 beacons every 10 minutes..
[20:56] <fsphil> try now
[20:56] <junderwood> Perfect. Thanks.
[20:56] <fsphil> aprs is dead around here
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[20:58] <craag> It's used usefully around the new forest for raynet events, as there's no phone coverage there, but everywhere else it's been quite superseded by mobile internet.
[20:59] <junderwood> fsphil, do you have access to the predictor?
[21:00] <fsphil> the live predictor?
[21:00] <junderwood> yes
[21:00] <fsphil> yea
[21:00] <junderwood> could you set the parameters?
[21:00] <junderwood> Rate of ascent is 6 m/s (may be higher)
[21:02] <junderwood> Vortex rate of descent is 2.5 m/s
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[21:02] <fsphil> slow
[21:02] <fsphil> big chute?
[21:02] <junderwood> Helioss rate of descent is 2.3 m/s (if we lose the balloon)
[21:02] <fsphil> what's your expected burst rate?
[21:02] <fsphil> er, altitude
[21:02] <junderwood> Vortex will be 25 km +/- 100m
[21:03] <junderwood> HelioSS will be no more than 34 (I hope - otherwise it's going to Holland)
[21:03] <fsphil> it can't do separate, so I'll set it to 32?
[21:03] <junderwood> Set it to 25 km - I'm sure about that one :)
[21:03] <fsphil> or 25, can be changed afterwards
[21:03] <junderwood> indeed
[21:04] <fsphil> there we go, 1.14 Lunars
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[21:04] <junderwood> What usually happens is that the balloon tangles with HelioSS and they both land within seconds of each other
[21:05] <junderwood> Thanks. Balloon fest coming up tomorrow
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to script stuff in openoffice?
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> will set the radio up for tracking junderwood :)
[21:06] <fsphil> must remember to leave my radio on
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> so say user uploads excel file to server, and its converted to a csv
[21:07] <Upu> sadly afk for this one
[21:07] <junderwood> Upu, I may catch up with you in the upload stats :)
[21:08] <Upu> lol
[21:08] <Upu> I'm only away for a day not a year :)
[21:08] <junderwood> especially if I tune into the 300 baud payload
[21:08] <junderwood> 1 string every 3 seconds
[21:09] <junderwood> (or test them on the ground for 3 hours before launch)
[21:09] <Upu> yeah that would do it
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[21:11] <mfa298> hmmm, I might need to make another antenna (and get some more useful adapters)
[21:12] <mfa298> for sma -> SO239 I had to go via bnc and N type
[21:13] Action: mfa298 wonders how many sound cards he can connect to a PC
[21:14] <chrisstubbs> How much data would i be likely to churn through in a day when tracking NSE1? Probably running the chase car app, FLDIGI uploading, IRC and checking the map every now and again
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[21:15] <chrisstubbs> would 1GB do?
[21:15] <fsphil> I don't believe I've ever gone over 1GB
[21:15] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that would probably be more than enough
[21:15] <chrisstubbs> perfect
[21:15] <fsphil> or even near it
[21:16] <mfa298> I think my 12GB PAYG stick still reports 12??? mbs on it and I've used it on a couple of chases and had multiple people using it together
[21:17] <arko> anyone here built a colinear with coax before?
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> arko i remember upu mentioning it
[21:18] <arko> going to be building one this weekend myself, just wondering for tips or tricks
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> is there an online viewer for the ics calendar feed?
[21:20] <eroomde> i have
[21:20] <eroomde> i taped chunks to a rod as i went along
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> my otlook crashes whenever i open it now for some reason
[21:20] <eroomde> then soldered them
[21:20] <mfa298> you can import it into a google calendar
[21:20] <eroomde> made it easier if you don't have 4 hands
[21:21] <arko> oh sweet
[21:21] <arko> cool
[21:22] <bertrik> eroomde: how many elements did you use?
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> 4
[21:22] <bertrik> as I understand there are diminishing returns from adding more elements at some point
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> earth, air,fire,water
[21:22] <arko> haha
[21:23] <arko> eroomde: im thinking about putting it inside a pvc pipe with caps to make it look clean
[21:23] <jonsowman> I did that with a slim jim
[21:23] <arko> lol
[21:23] <arko> to eat it later?
[21:23] <arko> "yo jon, whats in the pvc"
[21:23] <arko> "oh just my slim jims"
[21:23] <jonsowman> lol
[21:23] <jonsowman> yeah pretty much
[21:23] <arko> hahaha
[21:23] <arko> thats awesome
[21:24] <jonsowman> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-I/Testing/Antennas/Antennas_009
[21:24] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, sweet. that works perfectly :)
[21:24] <jonsowman> my loft
[21:24] <junderwood> fsphil, would you be able to delete our chase car tests from the tracker?
[21:24] <junderwood> HelioSS chase x 3 and CALLSIGN123
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[21:24] <lz1dev> would you buy him a beer?
[21:24] <junderwood> probably HelioSS and Vortex/3/4 as well
[21:25] <fsphil> just clear everything?
[21:25] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: have you gotten screenshots of spacenear?
[21:25] <fsphil> if you want them
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:26] <jonsowman> cleared some of junderwood's
[21:26] <arko> oh wow very nice
[21:26] <arko> im going to build one this weekend
[21:26] <arko> then have everyone in the tracking team build on tuesday
[21:26] <jonsowman> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-I/Testing/Antennas/Antennas_008
[21:26] <jonsowman> inside
[21:26] <jonsowman> worked pretty well
[21:27] <arko> oh nice
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> done
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> thanks fsphil
[21:27] <arko> have you measured the gain?
[21:27] <jonsowman> arko: no I've got
[21:27] <jonsowman> *not
[21:27] <jonsowman> I did put it on an ATU tho
[21:27] <arko> cool, jw
[21:27] <jonsowman> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-I/Testing/Antennas/Antennas_007
[21:29] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: EARS Launch Day - March http://t.co/dnXfkNGtSK #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/309415358597578753]
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> this is interesting
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> i think my retina responds to heating
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> i thought i could see 960nm IR, but it looks like it was just heating
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> i can see 1W @870nm, just...
[21:31] <junderwood> jonsowman, thanks
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> 1W @ 950nm just seems to burn my eyes out...
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> and this is probably a bad idea :P
[21:32] <bertrik> probably
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> i have _lots_ of high power LEDs :D
[21:34] <bertrik> I have a < 30mW green laser and the thing scares me a bit
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> lasers are much more dangerous
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> but at some point LEDs become as harmful... think i reached that point
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[22:03] <Willdude123_> Hi, my parents have said I definitely cannot do a HAB flight or fly a payload, because it involves people who I have never met.
[22:03] <arko> :(
[22:03] <Willdude123_> So I guess I won't be talking in this chan much
[22:04] <fsphil> you could still build a payload
[22:04] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Willdude123_: Where are you then?
[22:04] <Willdude123_> No,they won't let me do that either.
[22:04] <fsphil> have it hitch a lift with someone else
[22:04] <Ciemon-G0TRT> I can understand their reluctance.
[22:04] <fsphil> shame
[22:05] <Willdude123_> I know.
[22:05] <NigeyS> wah ? why not ? :|
[22:05] <arko> could you get your school involved?
[22:05] <fsphil> good thinking
[22:05] <Willdude123_> They thought it was weird Upu offered 'sponsorship' .
[22:06] <arko> maybe some classmates
[22:06] <Willdude123_> Not easily.
[22:06] <arko> aww
[22:07] <arko> you should listen to your parents, but don't give up building a payload
[22:07] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Willdude123_: they're protecting you, which is excellent. I've been there and done that. Might I suggest that you don't give up
[22:07] <Willdude123_> If I did a flight myself, they are worried it'd hit an electricity pylon.
[22:07] <Ciemon-G0TRT> There's so much to learn
[22:07] <Willdude123_> I know.
[22:07] <chrisstubbs> Does anybody know what type of connector i need to connect to the ACC port of a 817: http://www.min.at/prinz/oe1rib/CAT/images/FT817-ACC.gif ?
[22:07] <arko> yeah, you should have adult supervision
[22:07] <Willdude123_> They just want me to have a normal hobby.
[22:08] <fsphil> this is three normal hobbies in one
[22:08] <chrisstubbs> I know its for the CAT cable and i have made one just using jumpers stuck into the port. however it would be nice to get the correct "plug" to solder the pins onto
[22:08] <mfa298> you should point out that the metoffice launch loads of baloons each year and havn't caused a blackout yet
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[22:08] <Willdude123_> I did.
[22:08] <fsphil> looks like a mini-din chrisstubbs
[22:09] <lz1dev> mfa298: you mean 2 or more each day ? :)
[22:09] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I think you're lookinf for an 8pin mini din
[22:09] <Ciemon-G0TRT> I asked about where Willdude123_ lives in case there was a small gathering that his parens might be introduced to
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[22:09] <eroomde> if i were you i'd build a payload, then get someone else to fly it for you
[22:09] <eroomde> then it becomes their problem
[22:09] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MiniDIN-8_Diagram.svg
[22:09] <Willdude123_> Won't let me do that.
[22:09] <Upu> Dave's offeree
[22:09] <Upu> offered
[22:09] <arko> I had similar problems when I was a kid, I ended up convincing my dad to talk to this rocket group to go and take me with him.
[22:10] <mfa298> Willdude123_: could well be worth talking to people at your school, if you can find a a few other interested students and a keen teacher you could get something going
[22:10] <mfa298> there have been a few other schools doing hab projects
[22:11] <Upu> but do stick with it
[22:11] <Willdude123_> Even so, we couldn't afford the payload equipment, not me nor the school.
[22:12] <Ciemon-G0TRT> You know... the first thing I'd do if I were you, is learn the code
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, if you get the school on your side, im sure you could talk the local HAM club into helping out :)
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> for tracking at least
[22:12] <Willdude123_> There's not much chance.
[22:12] <Ciemon-G0TRT> My son is building a HAB at Uni, and the code is the hardest thing.
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> and cheers guys that 8 pin mini din looks perfect :)
[22:13] <Willdude123_> So yeah, goodbye.
[22:13] <Willdude123_> I might still PM a few peeps from time to time.
[22:13] <Upu> keep in touch Will
[22:13] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Willdude123_: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins129798.html
[22:14] <Ciemon-G0TRT> cheers me up in times like these.
[22:14] <Willdude123_> I will do.
[22:14] <Willdude123_> :(
[22:15] <arko> :) cheer up, keep engineering
[22:15] <Willdude123_> They won't let me go to YRS either.
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> Willdude123_: the internet is a dangerous place
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> theres freaks like me on here
[22:16] <Willdude123_> And there's nice people.
[22:16] <Willdude123_> Bye.
[22:17] <Upu> laters Will
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[22:17] <Laurenceb_> theres hackers on steroids
[22:17] <arko> :( poor kid
[22:18] <Upu> Lunar might have some competition for longest payload build
[22:18] <arko> had the same problem joining rocket clubs as a kid
[22:18] <Ciemon-G0TRT> Dude's our future :(
[22:18] <chrisstubbs> I can totally see where his parents are coming from
[22:18] <chrisstubbs> but they should give him a chance
[22:18] <arko> Upu lol
[22:18] <Upu> absolutely
[22:18] <Upu> I offered to speak to them
[22:18] <eroomde> one of my friend's mums decided i was a bad influence when i turned up to play once with estes motors
[22:18] <eroomde> when i was little
[22:19] <arko> haha!
[22:19] <arko> email the mom now "IM BUILDING ROCKETS NOW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH"
[22:19] <chrisstubbs> upu kind offer
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[22:20] <chrisstubbs> maybe he could ask his parent/s to take him to the conference
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_85FwUVkvis
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> get an idea of who we are/what we do
[22:20] <Upu> not clicking it Laurenceb as I bet 10p its totally ot
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> and them
[22:20] <Upu> off to walk the dog
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> see you did watch it
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> they made you buy a dog
[22:20] <arko> later Upu!
[22:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: haha
[22:22] <eroomde> our offive black lab is snoring away in the corner
[22:22] <Randomskk> I nearly killed everyone seeing what happened when you ignited estes motors without nosecones or fins
[22:22] <Randomskk> learnt that lesson
[22:22] <Randomskk> never did find the casing
[22:22] <eroomde> land shark
[22:22] <NigeyS> lol
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> haha
[22:22] <arko> hah
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> i tied one to a bit of wire and the other end to a tree...
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[22:22] <Randomskk> head height and doing circles, it was great
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> you just have to see what happenes with these things :P
[22:23] <Randomskk> that said I think jonsowman takes the cake on that one
[22:23] <Randomskk> washing line attached to house
[22:23] <Randomskk> rocket pointed housewards
[22:23] <Randomskk> it was only going to go one way
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[22:24] <eroomde> were there clothes on the line?
[22:24] <Randomskk> I don't think so :P
[22:25] <fsphil> there definitly wasn't afterwards
[22:25] <jonsowman> haha
[22:25] <jonsowman> yes that went badly
[22:25] <jonsowman> or very well
[22:25] <jonsowman> depending on how you look at it
[22:25] <fsphil> and you people are the responsible ones. sheesh
[22:26] <jonsowman> supposedly
[22:26] <Randomskk> me, responsible?
[22:26] <jonsowman> I haven't done it since
[22:26] <Randomskk> actually I think I'm abdicating
[22:26] <jonsowman> does that count?
[22:26] <Randomskk> just need to decide when
[22:26] <arko> aaannnddd the email is off to the FAA for approval for my HAB
[22:26] <arko> 3 weeks and counting
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> arko good luck! what is your payload name?
[22:27] <arko> HABEX2
[22:27] <arko> HAB HARDER
[22:27] <arko> :P
[22:27] <arko> RIP HABEX1 :<
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> lol, i will keep an eye out :)
[22:27] <arko> I hope to get it on the spacetracker too
[22:27] <Randomskk> A GOOD DAY TO HAB HARD
[22:27] <arko> gonna work that out next week
[22:27] <jonsowman> oh god
[22:28] <arko> Randomskk :P
[22:28] <arko> got that right
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> APRS im guessing then?
[22:28] <arko> yes
[22:28] <arko> launching from the mohave
[22:31] <griffonbot> @Mariano817: desde las 21hs con @sebasrossa en @radiocanal1 para conversar sobre #CUSF [http://twitter.com/Mariano817/status/309431102114783232]
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> not expecting to see the chase car then. looks like 3g is out of the question :P
[22:32] <arko> 3g?
[22:32] <arko> oh there's internet out there
[22:32] <arko> not all parts
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> mobile internet
[22:32] <chrisstubbs> oh result
[22:32] <arko> we have ok 4g coverage
[22:34] Action: Ciemon-G0TRT wonders if there's scope for putting specific APRS stations onto the tracker site.
[22:34] Nick change: Ciemon-G0TRT -> Cie
[22:34] <griffonbot> @sebasrossa: RT @Mariano817: desde las 21hs con @sebasrossa en @radiocanal1 para conversar sobre #CUSF [http://twitter.com/sebasrossa/status/309431763644588032]
[22:34] <jonsowman> interesting
[22:35] <eroomde> the distance between me and bed tonight is measured in airwires
[22:35] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/Tj9RuLf.png
[22:35] <jonsowman> nice
[22:36] <eroomde> have a sausage roll and lots of coffee beans
[22:36] <Upu> Ed isn't going to bed tonight
[22:36] <jonsowman> what is it?
[22:36] <arko> haha
[22:36] <arko> very clean man
[22:36] <eroomde> an adc card for bridge sensors. this is for a multichannel pressure datalogger
[22:37] <eroomde> 8 channels per card, stackabe up to 4 for 32 channels
[22:37] <jonsowman> cool
[22:37] <jonsowman> what's the mcu?
[22:37] <eroomde> and a little cpu card on the top of the stack which is basically just an ethernet interface
[22:37] <eroomde> it's an adc
[22:37] <jonsowman> ah, got it
[22:37] <eroomde> it's cute, 8ch, 16bit, 200ksps simultaneous on all 8 channels
[22:37] <Randomskk> do you keep the 200ksps up for 32 channels?
[22:38] <eroomde> the hardware could do it, but no need
[22:38] <eroomde> doesn't need that data rate
[22:38] <Randomskk> fe
[22:38] <eroomde> but you would have a very high fedelity microphone array....
[22:38] <eroomde> you could do electronically steerable microphones
[22:38] <Randomskk> I've always wanted to do that
[22:38] <Randomskk> well actually I nearly did that
[22:38] <Randomskk> back in first year
[22:38] <Randomskk> with the, uhm
[22:39] <Randomskk> the thing...
[22:39] <Randomskk> maple
[22:39] <lz1dev> syrop
[22:39] <lz1dev> mmm
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[22:49] Action: fsphil just had home made caramel squares
[22:49] <fsphil> yum
[22:50] <arko> nice
[22:53] <fsphil> bit too much chocolate, although not a bad fault
[22:54] <jonsowman> that's an anti fault
[22:54] <eroomde> 6music is annoyingly just on the wrong side of quirky that it makes for quite distracting background radio
[22:54] <eroomde> not the best routing music
[22:55] <Randomskk> my "routing" playlist is basically my "programming" playlist :/
[22:55] <fsphil> I quite like glitch hop channel on di.fm
[22:55] <fsphil> for programming
[22:55] <Randomskk> "glitch hop"
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[22:58] <Laurenceb_> haha di.fm
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> i used to listen to that, back in 2004 or so
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> got boring and repetitive after a while
[22:59] <Randomskk> a while = ten seconds, before you noticed the loop? :P
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> but then i had a job where they had radio1 playing....
[22:59] <Randomskk> I can't talk, I have buckets of glitch and electropop and similar >_>
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> thats like the same 5 songs in a random loop
[22:59] <Randomskk> talking of
[22:59] <eroomde> i am basically crap at electropop
[22:59] <eroomde> or trance
[22:59] <Randomskk> chvrches <3
[22:59] <eroomde> or anything that is often recommended for computer work
[22:59] <eroomde> classical is too distracting, i end up eyes shut and air-conducting
[22:59] <Randomskk> eroomde: have you heard 'music for programming'?
[22:59] <eroomde> 6music is fine until something up it's own bottom
[23:00] <eroomde> or cute 60s french pop
[23:00] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> finally i realised, anything is better than radio1
[23:00] <Randomskk> french pop is fun because I mostly can't follow the lyrics
[23:00] <fsphil> haha
[23:00] <Randomskk> so it works well as background ;)
[23:00] <Darkside> heh
[23:00] <fsphil> I've got some 90s french pop here
[23:00] <Darkside> i prefer 'chill' music when programming
[23:00] <fsphil> I suspect if I understood it, I wouldn't like it nearly as much
[23:00] <Darkside> not too distracting
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[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Evening all
[23:01] <eroomde> no fewer air wires but it looks a bit less scary a job after a bit of sanitisation
[23:01] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/mdMAmLa.png
[23:01] <Darkside> ooh
[23:01] <fsphil> that's less scary?
[23:02] <Darkside> that looks schmick
[23:02] <Darkside> whats that?
[23:02] <eroomde> less scary than before!
[23:02] <fsphil> scary
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody played with thr RTL_TCP facilities and managed to make sense of the Gain settings ?
[23:02] <Randomskk> that does look a lot better
[23:02] <eroomde> it's an adc card for a multichannel pressure logger
[23:02] <eroomde> part of a rocket engine
[23:03] <eroomde> the clue is in the pwd on the bottom left really
[23:03] <Darkside> hehe
[23:03] <eroomde> let's ignore the capacitor sitting inside the adc
[23:04] <zyp> sure, that's normal ;)
[23:04] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmkBqsJEC7I
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[23:05] <fsphil> man, youtube without flash is basically random. about 50% of stuff plays
[23:05] <eroomde> the problem with that kind of music is that, when i'm working alone, it makes me think 'god it's late, what am i still doing working here?'
[23:05] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/0N8W1.png <- I also tend to have capacitors sitting inside chips ;)
[23:05] <eroomde> mirror at the last minute
[23:05] <Darkside> eroomde: i like this particular style
[23:06] <eroomde> i'm trying to have no components on the bottom
[23:06] <zyp> also, I love your input routing :)
[23:06] <eroomde> i have failed sadly
[23:06] <eroomde> i spent a wee while on that conditioning chunk of circuitry :)
[23:06] <eroomde> so that each channel can tessalte
[23:06] <eroomde> tessalate*
[23:06] <eroomde> so in theory could keep stacking them up indefinitely
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> tessellate is such a fantastic word
[23:06] <Darkside> also, probably my favourite piece of electronic music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ihGI5jCH2o
[23:07] <eroomde> 64 channels into one fpga, which is something on the horizon
[23:07] <Darkside> no competition
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[23:08] <AdamDynamic> Hi, I was wondering whether someone could answer a quick question about the NTX2 modules available in the UKHAS store?
[23:08] <eroomde> don't ask to ask, just ask
[23:08] <eroomde> IRC netiquette ^
[23:09] <AdamDynamic> Ah, ok (still learning :)
[23:09] <eroomde> it gets easier, don't worry :)
[23:09] <AdamDynamic> There seems to be two NTX2 modules that are suitable/legal for the UK
[23:09] <eroomde> yup
[23:09] <LazyLeopard> They keep telling me that about Morse code too...
[23:09] <AdamDynamic> The descriptions suggests asking here before ordering
[23:10] <AdamDynamic> I'm just wondering what the difference between the two is?
[23:10] <eroomde> nothing, except frequency
[23:10] <eroomde> the reason to ask here is because Upu might pm you
[23:10] <eroomde> he owns the store
[23:10] <eroomde> it's worth waiting for that PM, i promise
[23:11] <eroomde> zyp: what is your pcb?
[23:11] <eroomde> i see an xbee, some inertial stuff
[23:11] <zyp> quadrotor controller
[23:11] <eroomde> awesome
[23:12] <zyp> old project, you might have seen it before: http://bin.jvnv.net/f/sTW8U.JPG
[23:12] <AdamDynamic> Is there any benefit to using one frequency over the other?
[23:13] <Randomskk> .650 is further away from annoying interference AND more likely to annoy tetchy hams
[23:13] <Randomskk> win:win
[23:13] <AdamDynamic> :)
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> omfg http://hackaday.com/2013/03/06/dynamic-bicycle-headlight-uses-the-open-road-as-a-display/#comments
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> this guy wins the internet
[23:13] <AdamDynamic> So on balance, the .650 is the better of the two?
[23:13] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: yea until daytime
[23:14] <eroomde> AdamDynamic: however i think he went to take his dog for a walk so might not be online right now
[23:14] <Randomskk> AdamDynamic: in all honesty it doesn't make much difference though.
[23:14] <eroomde> zyp: i hadn't, but that's cool
[23:15] <eroomde> what's the cpld doing?
[23:15] <zyp> IO routing mostly
[23:15] <eroomde> this board was seconds away from getting one
[23:15] <eroomde> to rationalise the backplane bus a bit
[23:15] <eroomde> but it was a bit YAGNI for this prototype
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[23:16] <zyp> one of the features I wanted is the ability to emulate a can bus, so I can hook it up to motor controllers and run can signalling without transceivers
[23:16] <AdamDynamic> Ok, I'll just pick my favourite then. Thanks for the help guys!
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[23:18] <chrisstubbs> AdamDynamic, at this stage you cant tell. the main difference would be to avoid frequency clashes. Either should work ok, but randomssk's .650 suggestion is worth taking note of.
[23:18] <chrisstubbs> thats the one i went for
[23:19] <eroomde> zyp: that's a neat idea. i quite like can. recently at work we basically reinvented canbus on the whiteboard when trying to come up with something simple, networky, and robust in a messy environment
[23:19] <AdamDynamic> Ok, I'm guessing if the shop stocks both then either will be suitable
[23:19] <eroomde> then someone said 'some of that looks a bit like CAN iirc'
[23:19] <zyp> :)
[23:19] Hix (~Hix@78-105-38-142.zone3.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:19] <eroomde> and CAN was basically exactly what we wanted
[23:19] <eroomde> just didn't realise until then
[23:20] <Randomskk> can is nice
[23:20] <Randomskk> i like the address priority system
[23:20] <Hix> bit late to the partay, but guessing you arent talking about CAN the 70's band :)
[23:20] <zyp> either way, at >$1 the CPLD weren't exactly a disadvantage
[23:20] <AdamDynamic> Also, I'm looking at Arduino Unos, the ones on eBay seem to be clones, should these be avoided? They seem to be ~£10 cheaper than Farnell etc, is it worth paying the extra though?
[23:21] <zyp> it's just a shame that the toolchain for programming it is a hassle
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> talking of toolchains
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> eclipse n00b guy is still failing
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> my inbox is filling up :-S
[23:21] zamabe (~zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> and im trying not to laugh
[23:22] <Laurenceb__> i think ill just resort to trolling him at this point
[23:22] <chrisstubbs> AdamDynamic, i have used both the clone arduino nano and clone duemilanove. both great value and i have not found any problems
[23:23] <Hix> dont they all use an ATMega?
[23:23] <Randomskk> though if they actually claim to be arduinos I'd be a little sad about giving them money
[23:23] <Randomskk> in the same vein as buying pirated DVDs at the market, you're only encouraging them >_>
[23:23] <Randomskk> there are other atmega dev boards.
[23:23] <chrisstubbs> Yeah i suppose Arduino deserve the money. but as a student the clones were perfet for me
[23:24] <Randomskk> I'm a student >_>
[23:24] <Laurenceb__> buy an olimexino
[23:24] <eroomde> i was a student
[23:24] <eroomde> but when i was the flight computers were arm
[23:24] <Laurenceb__> stm32 for lower price with tons more features
[23:24] <Hix> thought that was the whole point of arduino, they released the designs, as long as you called it a copy it's ok no?
[23:24] <Laurenceb__> im kind of a student...
[23:24] <eroomde> i'm not sure who i should feel bad for under this scenariop
[23:25] <Laurenceb__> writing up PhD thesis currently..
[23:25] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb_
[23:25] <Randomskk> Hix: yea, it's only people actually claiming they are arduinos. arduino is trademarked
[23:25] <AdamDynamic> They look like they're built on Arduino boards populated by someone else
[23:25] <eroomde> no, you're on IRC currently
[23:25] <eroomde> like me
[23:25] <eroomde> 5 airwires
[23:25] <eroomde> 10 minutes of irc
[23:25] <eroomde> 5 more airwires
[23:25] <eroomde> 10 more minutes of irc as a reward
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> im trying to do work...
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> tracking down 150x VTB8441H
[23:25] <eroomde> eyeing up the large bottles of cobra my boss and i bought earlier as something to keep us going
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> might have some in poland....
[23:26] <chrisstubbs> Im off for the night, thanks and goodnight all
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> cya
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> so eroomde, how goes the parafoil?
[23:26] <chrisstubbs> good luck with the project AdamDynamic
[23:27] <AdamDynamic> Thanks for the help, Chris.
[23:27] <Hix> seeya chrisstubbs
[23:27] <Hix> eroomde: how goes with the board?
[23:27] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: totally sitting in the plastic bag
[23:27] <eroomde> got a busy couple of weeks at work
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:27] <Hix> snap with mine :)
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> same here
[23:28] <eroomde> designing a few pcbs today, tomorrow
[23:28] <eroomde> sending them off on friday
[23:28] <eroomde> getting them back on tuesday
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> aiming to finish PhD by September...
[23:28] <eroomde> having them populated by wednesday
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> thats fast
[23:28] <eroomde> have the programmed and inside a sexy front-panel designer box by friday
[23:28] <Hix> not via mitch then
[23:28] NickSF2 (~NickSF@5.70.243.119) joined #highaltitude.
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> but I have a job starting 1st April (ya really)
[23:28] <Randomskk> mitch can be pretty fast if you pay
[23:28] <eroomde> nope, our usual 'we've left this a bit late' pcb people
[23:28] <eroomde> these guys are next working day
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> so im totally insane trying to do all this :-/
[23:29] <Randomskk> sounds fun Laurenceb_
[23:29] <Hix> Randomskk: he's off on a jaunt
[23:29] <eroomde> online form to in your hands
[23:29] <Randomskk> where'st he new job?
[23:29] <eroomde> iff you get it in by 7am
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> its complex
[23:29] <Randomskk> lol
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[23:29] <Laurenceb_> working for NHS and Smith and Nephew
[23:29] <eroomde> Hix: it's going ok now
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> on biosensors
[23:29] <Hix> cool cool
[23:29] <eroomde> a random asside to work on the schematic more and change things around
[23:29] <eroomde> that took most of the afternoon
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> tons of polymer stuff
[23:29] <eroomde> but now i'm into the final route
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> im not sure im qualified...
[23:29] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/mdMAmLa.png
[23:30] <Hix> how did you work the copy group for it all ?
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> but no-one else is so... lulz
[23:30] <eroomde> i did the taking advantage of the rather dodgy eagle design
[23:30] <eroomde> by deliberately breaking forward and back annotation
[23:30] <eroomde> so it goes something like this:
[23:30] <Hix> ahh, yeah
[23:30] <eroomde> get the single instance of schematic and corresponding layout done
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[23:31] <eroomde> close the layout
[23:31] <eroomde> ignore the complaints about breaking forward/back
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> see this is where eagle fails
[23:31] <eroomde> group copy and paste the chunk of schematic so that you have two instances of it on the schematic
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> i hate these issues
[23:31] <eroomde> save and close the schematic
[23:31] <eroomde> open the layout
[23:32] <eroomde> copy and paste preciely the same amount, all the nets included, in the laout
[23:32] <eroomde> save
[23:32] <eroomde> reopen schematic
[23:32] <eroomde> it will complain about inconsistancies, no forward back annotation can be peformed etc
[23:32] <eroomde> run an erc, it will tell you exactly what is wrong
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> so you do this last?
[23:32] <eroomde> usually for example AGND becomes AGND1 in the copied version
[23:32] <eroomde> so jsut rename it back to AGND
[23:32] <eroomde> and so on
[23:33] <eroomde> when you have no more erc errors (didin't take more than about 6 renames) then you're back in the game
[23:33] <Hix> theres a script for that too, though I'm not finding it now :/
[23:33] <eroomde> and the pcbs will be resynced
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> i see
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> Hix: yeah ive used the script
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> to panellize
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> but i use pymerge or whatever its called now
[23:34] <Hix> I'm going to look into KiCAD, Mitch is really plugging it, got to be worth a look
[23:34] <Hix> apparently you can import eagle files and library parts ?!?!
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> erm wtf am i talking about
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> http://ruggedcircuits.com/gerbmerge/
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> that even
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[23:35] <Laurenceb_> works really nicely once you set up the config, which is a little tricky
[23:35] <eroomde> that works for panelising but doesn't work so well if you want to then go and redit in eagle
[23:36] <eroomde> i.e. not so good for relicating specific subsections within a single design
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[23:36] <eroomde> replicating
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> its be nuts to do that with gerbers lol
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[23:38] <Randomskk> Hix: I really like kicad
[23:38] <eroomde> eagle is kind of like an arranged marriage
[23:38] <Randomskk> but it and eagle both have their idiosyncrasies
[23:38] <eroomde> the idea is horrendous, it can be a shock at first, but you sort of learn to get along with it in time
[23:38] <Randomskk> eroomde: you got to know it too well when you were both young and now you're stuck together?
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> i couldn't work out how to do routing in kicad...
[23:39] <Hix> so does hackvana it seems, I've only jst got to grips with eagle, but i am a mech CAD monkey, so not really fearing a transition.
[23:39] <eroomde> that's not an arranged marriage
[23:39] <eroomde> that's a CUCA marriage
[23:39] <eroomde> CUCU*
[23:39] <Randomskk> haha
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[23:39] <Randomskk> CUCA is a lot funnier though
[23:39] <Hix> worth a go then Randomskk
[23:39] <Randomskk> I imagine their marriages are more for convenience and politics :P
[23:39] <Hix> ?
[23:39] <Randomskk> Hix: yea definitely
[23:39] <Randomskk> I think kicad does a lot of bits better
[23:39] <Hix> kicad i meant not the dreaded w word
[23:40] <Randomskk> same
[23:40] <BrainDamage> I wish kicad would have a mode to automatically propagate changes from one program to the other
[23:40] <BrainDamage> the repetitive execution of save in one program, export in the other is quite annoying
[23:41] <Hix> right, time to emmulate someone in a coma for 6 hours
[23:41] <Randomskk> you might be doing it wrong if you're doing it that often
[23:41] <Randomskk> I pretty rarely find myself changing the schematic once I start routing
[23:41] <Randomskk> maybe it'l turn out something could be done a bit easier on another pin or whatever but usually I think about that when doing the sch anyway
[23:42] <BrainDamage> I just make lots of mistakes
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[23:42] <Laurenceb_> eagle can be annoying if you change the name of something
[23:42] <Randomskk> I guess it's a downside of having more rigidly separated schematic capture vs pcb layout programs
[23:42] <BrainDamage> and if you know a recipe how to fix that other than "look at it fe hundred times more", please tell
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> and you have to reroute all ove rthe place
[23:44] <eroomde> i love having the tight coupling in eagle, mostly
[23:44] <eroomde> eg highlying a part in layout highlights in it schematic
[23:44] <eroomde> so you can see what it's doing
[23:44] <Randomskk> kicad does do that
[23:44] <eroomde> s'alright then
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[23:46] <eroomde> moores law: effort for a given air wire = k*(total airwires left)^-1
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[23:47] <Randomskk> I think it's stronger than ^-1
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[23:48] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/MJjLi.png <- some tricky routing on that board :P
[23:49] <Randomskk> why use full size jtag, that's just asking for pain
[23:49] <eroomde> that looks like it would have been a nightmare
[23:49] <Randomskk> the 5x2 swd header is much much happier
[23:49] <eroomde> i'm glad you got over that brief flirtation with 'organic' autorouting
[23:49] <eroomde> for that radio board iirc
[23:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: also for some reason the last airwire is always from one corner to the opposite
[23:50] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/wombat.png the final three or four airwires were a total pain iirc
[23:51] <eroomde> yes i have to get 4 I2C lines from top right to bottom left
[23:51] <eroomde> they're just passing through
[23:51] <eroomde> but i can see they'll be a big pain already
[23:52] <Darkside> wombat?!
[23:53] <Randomskk> ?
[23:53] <Darkside> next board should be called platypus
[23:53] <Randomskk> ..?
[23:53] <Darkside> australian animals
[23:53] <Randomskk> furry woodland mammals is technically the theme
[23:53] <Darkside> though i guess the previous board was badger
[23:53] <Darkside> err
[23:53] <Randomskk> but yea
[23:53] <Darkside> wombat is not a furry woodland animal
[23:53] <Randomskk> we've depleted that barrel really
[23:53] <Darkside> not really
[23:53] <Darkside> :P
[23:54] <eroomde> how about, things that will kill you in austrialia
[23:54] <eroomde> eg
[23:54] <eroomde> boredom
[23:55] <Randomskk> lagar
[23:55] <Randomskk> lager even
[23:55] <Darkside> ..
[23:55] <Darkside> we don't drink fosters here
[23:55] <Darkside> no matter what the adverts say
[23:55] <Randomskk> pretty sure you do
[23:55] <Randomskk> nice try
[23:55] <eroomde> yeah
[23:55] <Darkside> pretty sure we don't
[23:55] <eroomde> i've seen it on tv
[23:55] <Darkside> fosters is piss
[23:55] <eroomde> and the cork hats
[23:55] <Darkside> we drink coopers
[23:55] <Randomskk> uh huh, they were definitely in australia
[23:55] <Randomskk> and drinking it
[23:55] <Randomskk> which is pretty prime evidence
[23:55] <eroomde> trying to stay out of the sun
[23:56] <Darkside> Coopers Pale Ale
[23:56] <Darkside> thank you very much
[23:56] <Darkside> well you could make them after deadly australian animals
[23:56] <Darkside> you won't run out for a while
[23:56] <Randomskk> people might get confused
[23:56] <Darkside> redback, funnelweb, blue-ringed octopus
[23:56] <Randomskk> maybe after animals from fenlands mythos
[23:56] <Darkside> taipan, tiger snake
[23:57] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
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[00:00] --- Thu Mar 7 2013