highaltitude.log.20130301

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[07:13] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch this weekend (2/3 March)"
[07:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[07:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Marco (projectBLAST) "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project BLAST
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[07:36] <x-f> so three flights on Saturday, cool
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[07:49] <costyn> yea that is cool
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[07:59] <UpuWork> can people check the info box in Spacenear.us
[07:59] <UpuWork> and tell me if I missed any thx
[08:00] <UpuWork> 1000 UTC HYPERION/HABANERO 434.650/434.250 Hague, NL</br>
[08:00] <UpuWork> 1200 UTC SHARP/BLAST 434.200/434.650 Gloucestershire, UK</br>
[08:00] <UpuWork> 1500 UTC PICO - 434.340 Suffolk, UK </br>
[08:01] <eroomde> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw6g2jzPQD1qdih8p.gif
[08:01] <eroomde> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m37l2kbHzI1qihztbo1_400.gif
[08:01] <eroomde> http://media.tumblr.com/0a7368638a0ed1e989f8cd7d5e77725f/tumblr_inline_mhd42tahAR1qz4rgp.gif
[08:02] <UpuWork> lol
[08:03] <eroomde> really i have no idea, i'm still at work
[08:03] <eroomde> little chance of going to bed now
[08:04] <UpuWork> all nighter ?
[08:04] <eroomde> mmmhmmm
[08:04] <eroomde> but
[08:04] <eroomde> PROGRESS
[08:04] <UpuWork> couldn't do it
[08:04] <UpuWork> I get to about midnight and have to stop
[08:04] <UpuWork> could never do it at Uni
[08:05] <eroomde> you don't have the friendly night-shift man at the shell garage who gave me free coffee because he liked my face
[08:05] <eroomde> I can never go back.
[08:05] <UpuWork> lol
[08:05] <daveake> I finished by first computer build at 7am
[08:06] <daveake> Just one of those "I'm not stopping till it works" moments
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[08:06] <eroomde> same
[08:06] <eroomde> except this was for wavelets
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[08:08] <eroomde> i have DTCWT (i put it as an acronym as it rolls off the tongue and i'm getting rsi from the non acronymed variable names) working in superfast C
[08:08] <eroomde> well, working in normal ansi C such that it is superfast
[08:09] <eroomde> well, such that it is faster than in python
[08:09] <eroomde> today we are testing a Rocket Power DRAGRACER
[08:09] <eroomde> WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
[08:10] <eroomde> except it'll be strapped down
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[08:10] <eroomde> but it'll be about 10kN of hybrid firiness
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[08:18] <eroomde> fsphil: i think the wave of tired is crashing against the shoreline of expected working hours
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[08:18] <eroomde> not fsphil
[08:18] <eroomde> that was at no one in partocular
[08:19] <daveake> tired is as tide does
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[08:24] <fsphil> wavelets can leave a man broken eroomde
[08:25] <eroomde> duel tree complex ones leave me feeling...
[08:25] <eroomde> complicated
[08:25] <eroomde> duel tree?
[08:25] <eroomde> en garde, fellow tree!
[08:25] <eroomde> dual
[08:26] <fsphil> you fell a tree?
[08:27] <eroomde> in the C
[08:28] <craag> UpuWork: Can you put FIZZLE, 869.59MHz on spacenearus banner as well? Flying with SHARP.
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[08:28] <UpuWork> sure thing
[08:28] <fsphil> I got the rtl-sdr installed for that last night. it's plugged into a tv antenna pointing roughtly that direction
[08:29] <UpuWork> do I need to make a 1/4 wave for that ? :)
[08:30] <fsphil> hopefully the broadcast channels are not so powerful they wipe it out
[08:30] <craag> Had a brief scare this morning with a deaf rtl-sdr, plugged it in and couldn't see any transmission..
[08:31] <craag> Tried a different usb socket and suddenly there it was. >0db.
[08:31] <eroomde> powered vs not?
[08:31] <craag> just a different one on the back of the pc. Probably the rtl-sdr just needed re-plugging.
[08:33] <craag> But yeah, I'm hoping tv doesn't cause too many issues. I'll probably grab some saw filters if it works alright tomorrow.
[08:34] <UpuWork> done craag
[08:34] <UpuWork> I'll try make a 1/4 wave today
[08:35] <craag> Thanks UpuWork. Great, It'll be good to have quite a few listeners!
[08:36] <fsphil> I think my diamond colinear has a filter on it, so probably not gonna get anything on that
[08:37] <fsphil> are you doing the normal FSK RTTY?
[08:37] <UpuWork> 82mm radials
[08:37] <fsphil> nice and small
[08:38] <craag> fsphil: Some colinears advertise 'rx coverage' of about 25MHz to a couple of GHz.
[08:38] <craag> I 'd be interested to know if it works.
[08:38] <craag> But a tv yagi should be a lot better anyway.
[08:38] <craag> Yes, normal rtty, but at 600 baud.
[08:39] <UpuWork> 10% duty cycle ?
[08:39] <craag> UpuWork: No, listen-before-talk, then drops back to 10% duty cycle if the channel is busy.
[08:40] <fsphil> the radiometrix module I have has quite large drift when it first starts transmitting
[08:40] <craag> Haven't really been able to test that bit.. there's only one 869MHz source near me and it's a channel-hopping one.
[08:40] <fsphil> think it's a combination of it being higher frequency and higher power
[08:40] <fsphil> that's something I haven't actually checked, if there's other 869mhz signals here
[08:41] <craag> fsphil: the rfm22 drifts a fair few khz when it first starts up.
[08:41] <craag> I'm doing my best to insulate it, so hopefully not too much drift in flight.
[08:42] <craag> The rfm reports 42 degrees temperature with 18 room temp :)
[08:42] <fsphil> nice
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[08:44] <craag> I've also put together a dedicated tracking webpage to take advantage of the 0.8hz telemetry. https://www.thecraag.com/hab/
[08:45] <craag> (balloon icon borrowed from spacenearus)
[08:45] <lz1dev> :D/fq 13
[08:45] <eroomde> they makes everything go red in vim
[08:46] <eroomde> that*
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[08:46] <lz1dev> lol
[08:46] <lz1dev> no, thats a smiley face
[08:46] <lz1dev> concatanated with the command a use to open links in irssi
[08:56] <craag> Also 3G depending there will be batc streaming from the launch site tomorrow.
[08:56] <daveake> nice. good to see more people do that :)
[08:58] <craag> With it not being my launch, it gives soo much more time to sort out the fancy bits!
[08:58] <eroomde> is there an android app for streaming from the built-in camera?
[08:58] <craag> eroomde: I think there is for ustream.
[08:58] <fsphil> listening on 869.5 mhz there is nothing at all
[08:59] <fsphil> which is either good or bad news
[08:59] <daveake> eroomde Yes there is. It's shit.
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[09:00] <daveake> It does work, however it needs the phone to be held in landscape position, and it doesnb't save any of the settings so when you load it up again you have to re-enter server address etc
[09:00] <craag> I'm using an adaption of daveake's pi-ffmpeg code, running on my netbook.
[09:00] <craag> *adaptation
[09:00] <UpuWork> craag http://i.imgur.com/GLfjoCu.jpg
[09:01] <eroomde> i guess i could do it from my laptop and stream through the tehtered phone
[09:01] <craag> UpuWork: Looks good!
[09:01] <daveake> Not my code :-). I just hacked it to do the telemetry overlay
[09:01] <UpuWork> craag if you need the UKHAS login let me know
[09:01] <craag> Well, it's more magic incantation than code.
[09:01] <daveake> yeah true
[09:02] <daveake> That's all I'd have done if it wasn't for a certain person suggesting that a telemetry overlay would be really cool ...
[09:02] <craag> UpuWork: I've got my own account, I'll just use that.
[09:02] <UpuWork> ok
[09:02] <UpuWork> disregard pm :)
[09:03] <eroomde> i've been put on a mailing list of some friends who i made in SF, the list is called 'waaaah'
[09:03] <eroomde> it's basically where the members rant about things that are stupid
[09:03] <fsphil> ooh, I see blips on 869mhz
[09:03] <fsphil> guess that's working
[09:04] <eroomde> with a slightly academic bent
[09:04] <eroomde> it's quite entertaining
[09:05] <craag> fsphil: Yeah, most devices on it seem to stick to the 10% cycle, or 10% per channel..
[09:06] <fsphil> yea. it's quite a wide signal but only brief blips
[09:07] <fsphil> whether this is sensitive enough to hear a payload 500km away is the question. guessing no :)
[09:08] <craag> It is 100 mW
[09:08] <craag> I realise receivers are going to be nowhere near as sensitive as 70cm radios.
[09:09] <craag> But I'm aiming high with the 600 baud, to find the limit so I know where it is.
[09:09] <craag> Might make tracking a bit more work though..
[09:10] <fsphil> yea the 600 is gonna be tricky
[09:10] <fsphil> why not 50?
[09:10] <craag> Higher power so I figured why not try to get more data down.
[09:11] <craag> It has worked v well in terrestrial tests.
[09:12] <craag> I'm thinking I should have just gone for 300, but I'd rather not mess with the code at this point. It'll be great if it works, and if it doesn't then we'll know that it doesn't.
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[09:13] <fsphil> 600 did work surprisingly well with pie4
[09:13] <fsphil> although I think that's the upper limit of the existing 434mhz network :)
[09:13] <craag> It did, I even got some with the funcube websdr.
[09:13] <fsphil> 1200 would need more than a few stations with stearable yagis
[09:14] <fsphil> I'll be doing 300 baud on my 869 beacon
[09:14] <fsphil> and 1200 afsk
[09:15] <craag> Cool!
[09:16] Action: craag afk
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[09:24] Action: HixWork has SDR:) and also R4 at work again :D
[09:25] <number10> craag: can you check the frequencies on spacenear.us for BLAST - I had a quick skim of emails and didnt seem to mach
[09:26] <number10> match
[09:26] <craag> number10: Good spot
[09:26] <craag> UpuWork: SHARP/BLAST is 434.075/434.650
[09:27] <UpuWork> fixed
[09:28] <craag> Cheers. Thanks number10.
[09:29] <number10> thats ok - it was a purley a selfish check as I wondered if there was room for another pico launch :)
[09:29] <UpuWork> well...I might launch too :)
[09:29] <UpuWork> mines on 434.200
[09:29] <number10> I was thinking of the same :(
[09:29] <UpuWork> can you change yours easily ?
[09:29] <number10> I dont have a programming header on my one :(
[09:29] <UpuWork> Mines all glued in a box
[09:29] <UpuWork> ok no probs don't worry in that case I won't launch
[09:30] <UpuWork> probably not going to get time anyway
[09:30] <number10> aha - well I suppose soldering is easier than glue
[09:30] <number10> I will change my one upu
[09:30] <number10> so you go ahead
[09:30] <UpuWork> as long as you're not going to be annoyed if I don't launch
[09:30] <number10> no
[09:30] <UpuWork> there is a 70% chance I won't
[09:30] <UpuWork> and I made that number up on the spot
[09:31] <number10> I should have the bits here at home
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[09:37] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: were you gonna launch sat?
[09:39] <mfa298> HixWork: I had a quick play with sdr# and dl-fldigi in an XP vm and it looked like it might work, now I need a HAB to test properly.
[09:39] <mfa298> the dongle was plugged into an rpi using rtl_tcp
[09:40] <HixWork> mfa298, Ahh cool. Launches tomorrow....
[09:40] <HixWork> I have 2 dongles now, though one lacking ESD protection :/
[09:41] <HixWork> I'll test it with win2k8 tomorrow
[09:41] <mfa298> I'm probably going to try the dongle with craags payload.
[09:42] <x-f> talking about launches - SpaceX's Falcon9/Dragon to the ISS at 15:10:09 UTC today.
[09:42] <fsphil> what's the prediction for yours UpuWork? if jcoxon's is anything to go by, it'll be heading my way
[09:43] <mfa298> at present I'm only setup to use the little magmount antenna that came with the stick, but I'm hoping it might be a reasonable match for 869MHz Just have to find a way to mount a steel ruler outside the window to give it some groundplane
[09:43] <fsphil> steel ruler is a good idea
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[09:44] <mfa298> one of the may uses for them :D
[09:45] <mfa298> I think it gets used more as a ground plane than as a ruler!
[09:45] <fsphil> I had been using a little telescope counter weight
[09:45] <fsphil> but it's not wide enough really
[09:46] <costyn> number10: I'm launching on 250 and 650 saturday
[09:46] <number10> costyn: at 1000 utc yea?
[09:46] <costyn> number10: yes
[09:47] <number10> if I do launch will be around 1500 and I'l change the frequency to 434.400
[09:47] <costyn> ok nice
[09:48] <number10> I will probably only do it if james is not successful - should I manage to get it finalised
[09:48] <craag> It's times like this when having a 1MHz wide at 434.500 websdr on a tall building somewhere would be quite awesome.
[09:49] <number10> :)
[09:49] <number10> I also need to wire up my tv yagi for the 86pMHz
[09:49] <costyn> craag: jarod has a setup like that. his discone antenna is op top of a tall appartment block, quite nice
[09:49] <number10> 869
[09:50] <craag> costyn: Lucky him!
[09:50] <costyn> yea
[09:50] <mfa298> craag: I'm wondering if it could be worth talking to mattbrejza and see if you could add a spliter on astra's antenna
[09:50] <craag> I'm trying to get a discone and funcube websdr on a university building.
[09:50] <fsphil> whoa, busy weekend
[09:50] <mattbrejza> yea we wont get access to that room in that little time
[09:50] <number10> just like busses fsphil
[09:51] <number10> never see one for ages then 3 come along together
[09:51] <mattbrejza> is my launch on spacenear yet...
[09:51] <craag> mfa298: We'll have *something* on zepler this summer I hope.
[09:51] <number10> what is the callsign mattbrejza
[09:51] <mattbrejza> POP1/PICOTEX
[09:51] <craag> Will be 200KHz wide at best though.
[09:51] <mfa298> was just wondering if that was a useful middle step and proving area.
[09:52] <mattbrejza> sun though
[09:52] <number10> what ferquencies? mattbrejza
[09:52] <mattbrejza> .650/.198
[09:52] <mattbrejza> from new forest
[09:52] <mattbrejza> 1200ish
[09:52] <craag> mfa298: Maybe, still need to get the club to purchase an fcd, or use mine though.
[09:52] <mattbrejza> just get denis to buy one
[09:53] <number10> mattbrejza: I think you and UpuWork should have a chat as if he launches a pico on .200 that may be a problem
[09:53] <craag> mattbrejza: that might just work :)
[09:53] <mattbrejza> yea i prodded him earlier but hes gone
[09:53] <mattbrejza> did he want sun too?
[09:54] <number10> no I think pico floater so will go up sat and if floats will still be up sunday - he is probably busy with clients - bound to respond in a mo
[09:55] <mattbrejza> even with rfm/cc430 why are there like 2 frequencies used by them :P
[09:56] <griffonbot> @daveake: I've written up my #TARDIS #raspberry_pi #DoctorWho "Pi In The Sky" flight http://t.co/oV4Ytnvrv7 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/307429196928544769]
[09:58] <Elwell> funcubers / rtlsdr -- does the r-pi keep up for running a remote receiver OK?
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[09:59] <griffonbot> @ryanteck: RT @daveake: I've written up my #TARDIS #raspberry_pi #DoctorWho "Pi In The Sky" flight http://t.co/oV4Ytnvrv7 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/ryanteck/status/307429960489000961]
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[10:03] <mfa298> Elwell: I think most people have only used the rpi to run rtl_tcp
[10:03] <mfa298> which sends the IQ sample over the network at a fairly high rate
[10:04] Action: Elwell wonders if his bifferboard is man enough to stream from
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[10:06] <mfa298> I don't think rtl_tcp needs a lot of power but it is a fair amount or bandwidth, I think the 2Msamples rate gives around 30mbps on the network
[10:07] <Darkside> it'll use 4MB/s + overheads
[10:09] Action: mfa298 works in bits/second rather than bytes (I hate having to do *8 or /8 in my head)
[10:13] <costyn> daveake: do you really need 5 screens in the car? :)
[10:14] <daveake> Sorry, what's this word "need"?
[10:14] <daveake> :)
[10:14] <daveake> Nah, Upu "needed" 2 screens amd I had my 2. Oh and the satnav
[10:15] <Elwell> daveake: also 'On the other side went ... a custom board carrying ...' -- more info?
[10:15] <costyn> heh
[10:15] <daveake> Yeah I'll do a separate techie article
[10:15] <costyn> what aabout the ipad on the dash in front of upu? :)
[10:15] Action: mfa298 thought "because you can" was all the reasoning that's needed
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[10:16] <daveake> "because I can" is the reason I did the Pi in the first place
[10:16] <daveake> Oh yeah his ipad
[10:16] <daveake> And my android phone would be there but I'm struggling to find somewhere to mount it :p
[10:19] <costyn> daveake: how strange there's no room to mount it :P
[10:19] <daveake> hah!
[10:19] <costyn> did you guys try the various tracking apps?
[10:19] <costyn> (any of?)
[10:20] <daveake> I had the /mt app on the panel. Worked well. Didn't have it doing the chase car bit as the update rate was very slow when I tried
[10:20] <daveake> So the car PC (the touchscreen at the top) did that
[10:20] <costyn> updates from mt to spacenear?
[10:20] <daveake> Yeah didn't do that bit
[10:21] <daveake> Just used it to display the map
[10:21] <costyn> ok
[10:21] <daveake> Works well on a tablet, with the brightness wound right up
[10:21] <costyn> we'll give it a whirl tommorow. Got a bluetooth gps thingy in case it's not good enough
[10:22] <daveake> I'm going to make a little Pi/GPS/TFT to do the car position and to run a simple "compass pointing to payload" app
[10:23] <mattbrejza> *cough* https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem *cough*
[10:23] <costyn> daveake: doesn't the carputer already do that?
[10:23] <daveake> Yes. So? :)
[10:23] <costyn> riight... forgot about that
[10:23] <costyn> :)
[10:23] <daveake> I can fit this in the Elise for a laugh
[10:23] <costyn> haha
[10:23] <daveake> Yes Matt I'll try that for the next flight
[10:24] <mattbrejza> :P
[10:24] <mattbrejza> still need to add landing prediction
[10:24] <daveake> Was a bit busy before this one finishing the flight software :p
[10:24] <costyn> daveake: got my dodgy rfm under control thankfully
[10:24] <mattbrejza> that was probably better use of your time tbh
[10:24] <daveake> Let's put it this way: I had to screw the 4x4 dashboard back together after the launch before we set off ...
[10:24] <costyn> ran it for an hour this morning with no problems
[10:24] <costyn> daveake: haha
[10:26] <fsphil> good writeup
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[10:27] <daveake> One thing I would say re "but your car PC does that" ... you can never have too many options. Eventually on chases everything breaks, whether it's a BSOD on the PC, or a battery runnign flat, or 3G SIM running out of credit.
[10:27] <daveake> ^^ had all of those on the previous launch
[10:28] <daveake> s/launch/2 launches/
[10:30] <fsphil> it's like having lots of eggs, and keeping them in a single container.
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[10:31] <daveake> :)
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[11:19] <Jess--> I can agree with everything breaks on a chase, I spent a long time chasing hot air balloons around (harder than it sounds) No data from the balloon and comms from the pilot can best be described as variable (fun when the last you see of the balloon is the basket hanging from a cloud and a pilot that ignores the ground crew on radio for fun
[11:20] <Jess--> shortest flight (distance) was 200 yards in an hour, longest was 85 miles
[11:21] <Jess--> looking forward to chasing a hab, at least it tells me where its headed (in theory)
[11:22] <craag> Sounds like you'd benefit from hanging a hab tracker from the hot air balloon!
[11:22] <craag> Maybe not under it.. might get a bit squashed.
[11:22] <costyn> hehe
[11:22] <Jess--> that's the plan for a flight test of the tracker
[11:23] <Jess--> 1st flight, RC Plane
[11:24] <Jess--> 2nd flight, hot air balloon (100% retreival)
[11:24] <Jess--> 3rd flight, foil balloon
[11:24] <Jess--> 4th flight, latex
[11:25] <Jess--> does that sound like a good plan?
[11:25] <costyn> quite a test trajectory :)
[11:25] <craag> That's quite some testing..
[11:25] <costyn> sounds like a lot of work, but very thorough
[11:25] <Elwell> what's wrong with 'wrap it in gaffatape and launch'?
[11:25] <craag> Latex is still going to be quite different, in temperature and gps altitude.
[11:25] <costyn> yep
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[11:27] <Jess--> I realise that with latex, nervous about that one given the possible rfm22 failure on ava
[11:27] <costyn> Jess--: my rfm22 is/was behaving badly too. But I now changed it so every 50 strings it gets reset, you lose a string, but it works
[11:30] <fsphil> Jess--: the foil might actually be tricker/riskier than the latex flight
[11:31] <craag> Yeah you do need to be a lot more careful with payload weight and free lift with a foil.
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[11:58] <Babs> Morning all - Does anyone have a source for the larger Totex or Hwoyee balloons (2000g and up?) other than going to the US or China for them directly?
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[12:06] <fsphil> doubt anyone would stock them, but steve would probably be able to get one quicker than going direct
[12:07] <griffonbot> @Rob_Bishop: RT @daveake: I've written up my #TARDIS #raspberry_pi #DoctorWho "Pi In The Sky" flight http://t.co/oV4Ytnvrv7 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/Rob_Bishop/status/307462126501494787]
[12:21] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - Tuesday 5th March - Chalgrove - Vortex
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[12:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
[12:44] <x-f> aww..
[12:45] <x-f> ALERT: Geomagnetic K-index of 5
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[12:45] <x-f> somebody should do a launch today!
[12:45] <x-f> for science!
[12:46] <fsphil> oooh wonder if there's a chance of seeing something tonight
[12:46] <x-f> it was clear for the last three days here, tonight the snowstorm will arrive..
[12:47] <fsphil> cloudy here, after a week of sunshine (apart from yesterday)
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[12:47] <x-f> damn Murphy
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[12:55] <gonzo__> nope, my rx at home is not on
[12:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
[12:59] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: were you gonna launch your pico sat?
[13:00] <UpuWork> possibly
[13:00] <mattbrejza> were intending to launch on .198 on sun
[13:01] <UpuWork> Sat isn't it ?
[13:01] <mattbrejza> i orginally said sat/sun
[13:01] <mattbrejza> but sat is going in the drink
[13:01] <UpuWork> pico
[13:01] <mattbrejza> latex
[13:02] <UpuWork> you're launching latex on sat ?
[13:02] <mattbrejza> no, im launching latex on sunday
[13:02] <mattbrejza> im not blast btw
[13:02] <mattbrejza> there are two soton ones
[13:03] <UpuWork> ok no problems then
[13:03] <UpuWork> my pico will be sat on 434.200
[13:03] <UpuWork> if i launch it at all
[13:03] <mattbrejza> it was suggested that you might intend to float it
[13:03] <UpuWork> well if it does float (foil)
[13:03] <mattbrejza> well longer term
[13:03] <UpuWork> its going to be up over scotland and north sea
[13:03] Action: fsphil is confused
[13:03] <UpuWork> I wouldn't worry about it
[13:03] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:03] <UpuWork> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/01/raspberry_pi_tardis/
[13:03] <mattbrejza> its picotex so if they so collide it wont be for long
[13:04] <mattbrejza> and yea i confused myself too fsphil
[13:08] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: when youre not busy could you add 3/3/13 - POP1/PICOTEX - 434.650/434.198 - New Forest, UK
[13:08] <mattbrejza> thanks
[13:08] <mattbrejza> (to spacenear)
[13:09] <UpuWork> sure
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[13:09] <UpuWork> 1000 ?
[13:10] <mattbrejza> 1200
[13:10] <mattbrejza> well depends a bit
[13:10] <mattbrejza> cant see us being early :P
[13:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
[13:13] <UpuWork> ok referesn now there is a list of all the frequencies plus some "maybes"
[13:13] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: thanks
[13:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
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[13:14] <craag> wow, launches galore.
[13:15] <fsphil> we're going to need some kind of traffic controller
[13:16] <fsphil> HATC
[13:16] <UpuWork> I think I'm it at the moment :/
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[13:16] <mattbrejza> so our notam says keep away from soton airport
[13:16] <mattbrejza> flying over @ 25km is still fine?
[13:16] <mattbrejza> (we are clearing this with DM)
[13:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/01/raspberry_pi_tardis/
[13:17] <Laurenceb> lol @ "3G dongle"
[13:17] <fsphil> you laugh, but it worked :)
[13:17] <UpuWork> it did
[13:18] <Laurenceb> but not sureing flight
[13:18] <Laurenceb> *during
[13:18] <fsphil> nope, but wasn't expected to
[13:18] <Laurenceb> exactly
[13:18] <Laurenceb> article is retarded
[13:18] <UpuWork> nah we didn't expect it too
[13:18] <UpuWork> wait you're not reading it expecting an accurate scientific articled are you Laurenceb ?
[13:19] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
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[13:46] <griffonbot> @geodbz: RT @daveake: I've written up my #TARDIS #raspberry_pi #DoctorWho "Pi In The Sky" flight http://t.co/oV4Ytnvrv7 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/geodbz/status/307486958408572931]
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[14:01] <HixWork> "high altitude geezer Dave Akerman" heh
[14:02] <daveake> hehee
[14:02] <Elwell> ah, didn't realise you'd already had a run in ^W^W^W collaborated with el reg on LOHAN
[14:02] <daveake> Also http://raspi.tv/2013/raspberry-pi-in-near-space-35-5km-from-earth
[14:03] <daveake> Erm, well, I supplied the launch site and balloon and gas
[14:03] <daveake> And as I had an Iridium tracker I flew that
[14:03] <daveake> I'm not part of the LOHAN side really
[14:03] <LazyLeopard> That the one that went into the Channel?
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[14:04] <daveake> Yep
[14:04] <daveake> Prediction and reality disagreed
[14:05] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: TARDIS Nerdgasm http://t.co/MPKHuaL5E5 & http://t.co/UNeddHpSb0 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/307491725100871680]
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[14:05] <HixWork> daveake, what's the cl;amp for the lilliput monitor? is it a manfrotto item?
[14:06] <daveake> Just got it from the local camera shop
[14:06] <daveake> Works great
[14:06] <HixWork> heh cl:amp sounds like a tm for an ammeter
[14:06] <HixWork> hmmm, looking for something like that, could you get a part number from it at some point pls?
[14:07] <HixWork> one i've got is just a little too narrow
[14:07] <daveake> Ah no tell a lie ... the clamp was on ebay; the stud thing between that and the monitor was from the camera shop
[14:08] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Clamp-for-Magic-Arm-LCD-and-DSRL-Camera-UK-/271110197681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f1f6d51b1
[14:10] <HixWork> ahh, good work high altitude geezer :)
[14:10] <jonsowman> DSRL camera
[14:10] <jonsowman> interesting
[14:10] <HixWork> it's a lens that reacts quickly :)
[14:14] <HixWork> oh, wow - I thought the Manfrotto clamp was over £50 - turns out £17 http://goo.gl/xNzNv
[14:15] <HixWork> Their gear is excellent - Even spotted a few of them on Felix's gondola
[14:17] <fsphil> for all they spent on that, they really did have a crappy voice comms system
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[14:19] <griffonbot> @daveake: Video of the preparations, launch and recovery of TARDIS / Pi In The Sky #raspberrypi #UKHAS http://t.co/SEvsNjQohY [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/307495353521946626]
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[14:24] <fsphil> next step, TARDIS cubesat
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[14:26] <HixWork> there we go - they even painted them white http://goo.gl/usSX8
[14:31] <daveake> I only chose TARDIS 'cos, being kinda square, it was easy to make :)
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[14:39] <Laurenceb> http://blog.openbeamusa.com/2012/05/18/behind-the-scenes-injection-molding/
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[15:43] <HixWork> Friaday afternoon, the can't be arsed effect is strong
[15:43] <[1]chrisstubbs> HixWork, this should lighten your mood...
[15:44] <HixWork> if it's streaming, it'll be banned here :)
[15:44] <chrisstubbs> nah flickr
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[15:44] <chrisstubbs> bear with
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[15:44] <HixWork> banned too :/
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[15:44] <HixWork> quite the personality change there chrisstubbs :)
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> lol
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[15:45] <lowerstoford> hi guys anyone been watching the F9 launch?
[15:45] <HixWork> I need a discone in a hat for covert SDR stuff whislt at work :)
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> dad read this in the express this morning
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> tabloids make me so sad.
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/theheliumcaughtfire.jpg
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> tragic story. but the editors are as thick as sh*t
[15:48] <lowerstoford> just interested if anyone else heard the "they have a couple of fires" comment that was accidentally mixed in to the coverage. After they cut the feed early?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> http://exposingevilempire.com/accenture/accenture-analyst-dead-at-desk-for-4-days/
[15:49] <HixWork> oh chrisstubbs what was the flickr? keep forgetting about the server at home and rdc
[15:50] <chrisstubbs> i uploaded it at the chris-stubbs link ^
[15:51] <Elwell> Laurenceb: 2nd source? (and no, not the onion!)
[15:51] <griffonbot> @Mariano817: #CUSF gran acompañamiento de la propuesta y una elecciòn de los docentes que redundara en beneficio de nuetros hijos http://t.co/YeQtfIS1Hi [http://twitter.com/Mariano817/status/307518351410880512]
[15:51] <Laurenceb> i think its spoof
[15:51] <HixWork> ah ok..
[15:52] <HixWork> Laurenceb, I don't care, i'm content with the newsreader screencap
[15:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
[15:54] <mattbrejza> steve should retune his ntx2, we need more balloons in the air tomorrow
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[15:58] <chrisstubbs> just read Hyperion as Hypnotoad on the launch cal
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> im disappointed to say the least
[15:59] <Laurenceb> lolz
[15:59] <chrisstubbs> picoatlas from suffolk should be a good track for me, not too far :)
[16:03] <chrisstubbs> brb
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> grr. missed the spacex launch
[16:05] <russss> there is an anomaly
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:05] <russss> attitude control didn't initialize
[16:05] <russss> Falcon worked though
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> hope it's OK...
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[16:09] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/307521854166417408
[16:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
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[16:36] <HixWork> costyn, whats your latest on the hourly?
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[16:40] <lowerstoford> Dragon Update - Thruster pod 3 tank pressure trending positive Preparing to deploy solar panels
[16:43] <lowerstoford> adobe.com
[16:43] <lowerstoford> woops wrong window!!!
[16:50] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/307533114035535872
[16:51] <lowerstoford> solar panel deployment sucsessfull
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[16:54] <junderwood> Please could someone approve doc 0127d85f71f0fe86190a44f424827f91?
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[16:56] <Pete```> i'm really interested in HAB and wanting to make the "chase" less of a distance - has anyone successfully had the payload control it's descent direction? ie via a parachute or wing like feature?
[16:58] <junderwood> For that you need a gliding parachute. Gliding parachutes don't work very well at high altitude.
[16:58] <junderwood> .. and you need a control system
[16:59] <junderwood> ... and you're in danger of being classified as a UAV which results in all sorts of legal headaches
[16:59] <Pete```> ah ok....so probably not something to continue to look into then lol
[17:00] <gonzo__> A commanded cutdown is doable. Then you can end the flight when you choose. Of course you are still at the mercey of the winds
[17:00] <lz1dev> Pete```: you can run a prediction, to see if that wind conditions are good
[17:00] <junderwood> certainly not for your first attempts at HABing
[17:00] <Pete```> so for HAB the theory of go big or go home doesn't count? :P
[17:01] <gonzo__> baby steps
[17:01] <junderwood> The best approach is to run a prediction then go to the payload rather than asking it to come to you :)
[17:01] <Pete```> heh
[17:02] <gonzo__> first flights, jsut fly a tracker that you don't mind losing. Till you get the hang of it.
[17:02] <gonzo__> (I'm still only at the first few steps)
[17:02] <junderwood> Never fly anything you can't aford to lose (or not recover)
[17:03] <gonzo__> hehe, I was just typing something along those lines!
[17:03] <DanielRichman> junderwood: done, thank you
[17:03] <junderwood> DanielRichman, thanks
[17:04] <junderwood> Very few payloads seem to be lost these days.
[17:04] <junderwood> Although there are quite a few that aren't recovered
[17:04] <Pete```> I assume that's simply with the cost of technology dropping etc
[17:04] <junderwood> more to do with tall trees
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[17:04] <Pete```> i meant the lost bit :)
[17:05] <Pete```> the tall tree bit could be resolved by wire holding the payload (assuming polystyrene is used) and turning on a current to melt through it :)
[17:05] <Pete```> but simple is best to begin with - sorted
[17:06] <gonzo__> the floating attempts tend to be disposable payloads. There is usually no plans to chase/reciover them. Though sometimes local HABbers will go out and recover for you.
[17:06] <lowerstoford> I hope you don,t mind me asking, but I am hoping to start to put together my tracker tonight. Based on Dave A and the CRAAG pico. Will anyone be on here that could answer some quires, if I get stuck?
[17:06] <gonzo__> the sea eats a few. But we are on a small island here.
[17:07] <lowerstoford> I have just applied for WOP (Wife or Partner) permission and am awaiting a decision...
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[17:07] <fsphil> hah
[17:07] <Pete```> yeh I had a play with the simulation for payload location
[17:07] <Pete```> quite a few times it ended up in the sea
[17:07] <fsphil> now if you had a boat, that would be a good thing
[17:08] <Pete```> surely not a good thing - just not as bad? :)
[17:08] <fsphil> there's been a few sea recoveries
[17:08] <gonzo__> Pete```, first thing to do is get a reliable basic tracer going.
[17:08] <gonzo__> yep, my favourite was Dave's one that floated back in
[17:09] <Pete```> I've done that already - I've been working with a cycling team who wanted to know peer to peer locations
[17:09] <gonzo__> what's it based on? radio/cgsm?
[17:09] <Pete```> but obviously not to the alt. of 35,000 ft :)
[17:09] <fsphil> 35km more like :)
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[17:10] <Pete```> it was radio
[17:10] <griffonbot> @_smstext: RT @daveake: I've written up my #TARDIS #raspberry_pi #DoctorWho "Pi In The Sky" flight http://t.co/oV4Ytnvrv7 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/_smstext/status/307538323075919874]
[17:10] <Pete```> right time to go home from work
[17:11] <fsphil> sounds interesting
[17:11] <Pete```> will get my home irc client on here later on - def want to start having a play
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[17:14] <daveake> sorry about all the RT spam chaps
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[18:01] <craag> lowerstoford: I'm sure we can help you out, or show you where to look :)
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[18:16] <lowerstoford> Nice one thats great. I will get the soldering iron out
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[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:39] <nigelvh> mmhmhmmmmhmmmhmmhm Thin Mints......
[18:39] <nigelvh> Damn you girl scouts......
[18:39] <costyn> are those like After 8's?
[18:40] <nigelvh> http://paaresume.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/thin-mints-1.jpg
[18:40] <nigelvh> It's a minty chocolately cookie
[18:41] <costyn> nigelvh: looks nice, never had one I think
[18:41] <nigelvh> They are put out by girl scouts of america
[18:42] <nigelvh> But damn they're delicious.
[18:43] <Ciemon> whois sbasuita
[18:43] <costyn> Ciemon: try with a / in front :P
[18:43] <Ciemon> Heh, thanks.. he's not around anyway
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> after eights go awesomely with bananas.
[18:45] <nigelvh> Thin mints go aweseomly with the rest of a box of thin mints.
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[18:46] <costyn> nigelvh: haha
[18:46] <costyn> SpeedEvil: gonna have to try that
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> today we couldn't do the launch test run because of two of our team who couldn't attend
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> so I hope everything will work on monday
[18:47] <lowerstoford> WOP permission has been granted for the dining table area only. Let the build begin
[18:49] <lowerstoford> First question - I Will be running using software serial first so I can debug, but if I have the uBlox connected to hardware serial, can I still upload (using the other TXRX) or is it best to disconnect the GPS first?
[18:50] <nigelvh> If you're using an arduino you have to use the hardware serial port to upload programs
[18:50] <nigelvh> (Unless you have an ICSP programmer)
[18:50] <lowerstoford> Second Question - I am using a MPL3115A2 instead of BMP085 has anyone got any experiance with this sensor?
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[18:51] <nigelvh> That one I can't answer
[18:52] <lowerstoford> nigelvh: as the pro mini has 2 connection points for hardware serial, the question is is GPS is on the other connection point is it safe to upload without disconnecting?
[18:53] <lowerstoford> if you look at this https://www.thecraag.com/images/d/d0/FlightPrototype_CRAAG1.JPG
[18:53] <craag> lowerstoford: You'll run into problems trying to upload with the gps connected.
[18:53] <lowerstoford> the GPS red VCC is disconnected
[18:53] <nigelvh> The pro mini has only one hardware serial port.
[18:53] <craag> For that one, I had to disconnect Vcc from the gps every time..
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[18:54] <lowerstoford> cragg :That answers it, thanks.From Dave A pics its hard to see the connection
[18:55] <lowerstoford> nigelvh: i understand the pro mini has only one hardware serial, but it has 2 points to connect to it
[18:55] <nigelvh> There are two connection points to it, but it's only one port, so you will have issues like craag said.
[18:56] <lowerstoford> Yes, I will disconnect GPS before upload
[18:56] <craag> lowerstoford: I'd suggest investing in an icsp programmer sooner rather than later, I use one now and will never go back!
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea I ordered a AVRISPmkII and I am excited to work with it
[18:57] <lowerstoford> My build is based around the image i linked to, but it will use this http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/sensors/temp-pressure/mpl3115a2-pressure-temp-sensor
[18:58] <lowerstoford> and DS18B20 temp sensors
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[18:58] <lowerstoford> I will look into the programmer, why is it better?
[18:58] <lowerstoford> doh! hardware serial is not used?
[18:59] <craag> I uses the SPI port instead, which supports multiple devices so you don't have to disconnect anything.
[18:59] <nigelvh> Yes, ICSP uses different pins
[19:00] <craag> Good plan on the digital temp sensors. The analogue ones in CRAAG1 couldn't be measured while the radio was transmitting!
[19:01] <nigelvh> I haven't had issues with my analog temp sensors, so perhaps your issue was something systemic. None the less, temp sensors are always an interesting one.
[19:01] <lowerstoford> Craag: Yes I read that on your site. Main reason thou is, i have loads of them
[19:01] <craag> nigelvh: It was built ugly-bug, hence lots of rf pickup I think.
[19:01] <nigelvh> Easily possible
[19:01] <craag> Incidentally no such problems on my new pcb :D
[19:02] <lowerstoford> I have analog temp sensors on my wind turbine battery, when I added a analog current sensor the temp is incorrect. so I have moved to digital
[19:02] <nigelvh> You just have to make sure that analog is done right.
[19:03] <nigelvh> In some regards I prefer analog sensors in that it reduces the failure chances in the digital communications.
[19:04] <nigelvh> Like I2C hosing the bus.
[19:04] <nigelvh> Had that happen once.
[19:05] <lowerstoford> I imagine that its my code causing the problem, but I needed a quick fix for that particular project so I changed to the DS
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[19:05] <lowerstoford> Dave are your ear burning?
[19:05] <lowerstoford> ears!
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[19:07] <daveake> neither
[19:07] <lowerstoford> OK, so do you think it is OK to run software serial for debugging, then move to hardware
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[19:08] <daveake> sure. if you want to be debugging s/w serial
[19:08] <lowerstoford> Daveake: sorry , I mentioned your name earlier.
[19:09] <costyn> I was thinking of make a dependency chart for beginners, to see what goes where and what all is involved in UKHAS style HAB
[19:09] <lowerstoford> can anyone tell me what problem the uBlox has with software serial? its not a problem, but it has made me change my future plans for sd logging
[19:10] <costyn> lowerstoford: the timing on software serial makes that for 9600 baud it's unreliable and error-prone
[19:10] <nigelvh> I believe some people had issues with the baud rates being off.
[19:10] <costyn> lowerstoford: if you switch to 4800 people do get good results, but then at boot you have to first tell the gps to slow down :)
[19:11] <lowerstoford> ok. unreliable is all i needed to hear
[19:12] <lowerstoford> I will only be using it for minor debugging to start with. Im having a few problems with my USB SDR so im not sure if I will be able to get a clear signal to decode.
[19:12] <costyn> lowerstoford: SD logging is overrated. I first thought I was going to do it too, but as nearly all strings sent out by your balloon (except the last few before landing), will be stored on the server, theres not much point in the extra hassle for SD card writing, which eats program memory
[19:12] <lowerstoford> But. I havent tried
[19:13] <eroomde> successful test fire of 2 of the rocket dragster engines this afternoon, it was quite loud and pleasing
[19:13] <costyn> eroomde: that sounds brilliantly awesome
[19:13] Action: costyn = only slightly jealous
[19:14] <eroomde> took all day to prep, had to build up a steel land anchor to rawl-lug into the concrete ground to restrain the car
[19:14] <nigelvh> SD logging can also be troublesome. I have done onboard logging on some of my flights, but use a dedicated flash chip with good, known, easy communications protocols.
[19:14] <eroomde> rawl-plug*
[19:15] <gb73d> http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-sees-monster-sunspot-growing-fast-solar-storms-003249636.html
[19:16] <lowerstoford> Logging will be used for additional sensors, I was not sure how many sensor data streams I could send over the radio.
[19:16] <nigelvh> You can send a fair bit of data over the radio (depending on how quickly you need it)
[19:16] <nigelvh> Also, you shouldn't rely on recovering the payload to get your data.
[19:17] <nigelvh> Often recoveries are made, but there is a chance you'll lose it.
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[19:18] <costyn> lowerstoford: what other sensors are you thinking of?
[19:18] <lowerstoford> our payload system is modular and custom cast for each module. using a MLI technology we have developed. We will be flying differant modules depending on the flight. So we will add a sensor module, dedicated to logging.
[19:19] <lowerstoford> Ozone, CO2, Light, Radiation and other things that we have not thought of yet...
[19:20] <Elwell> flying an airqualityegg?
[19:20] <lowerstoford> neutrinos?
[19:20] <nigelvh> Also note that gas sensors are rather hard to do.
[19:20] <Elwell> aren't they temp/pressure dependent?
[19:20] <nigelvh> They generally require a heating element or whatnot and tend to not work well
[19:21] <nigelvh> Also, at altitude the concentrations of gas elements will be rather low, so that should be taken into account as well.
[19:21] <lowerstoford> ah. future flights will have gas sensors, but I hoping to pass this module to a collage or uni to develop
[19:21] <nigelvh> (I tried an ozone sensor once and I got mostly garbage)
[19:22] <Elwell> magnetic field may be interesting but suspect uness you can stabilise payload container it'll just be too unstable
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[19:23] <daveake> Guten Abend
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> our launch is in jeopardy
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> two out of our team couldn't be there today, so we have to meet at monday to get the payload cords ready
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> what is an airqualityegg Elwell ?
[19:25] <eroomde> well, you can therefore measure payload movement
[19:25] <lowerstoford> Elwell: we are working on stabilization, as the modular payload is designed for kites, balloons and rockets
[19:25] <fsphil_> Is that like an air biscuit?
[19:26] <lowerstoford> We are also going to include a 10DOF sensor to measure payload movement
[19:26] <Elwell> Lunar_Lander: http://airqualityegg.com/ -- co2, no + dht22
[19:26] <eroomde> stabilised payloads would be very interesting
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> lowerstoford, cool, why 10?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> I know 9
[19:26] <eroomde> we have fun little orange weafable gas detectors for some of the rocket work
[19:26] <eroomde> they keep bleeping at you
[19:26] <eroomde> and detect farts
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyro and 3-axis magnetometer
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, lol
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> what is the 10th degree?
[19:27] <eroomde> pressure?
[19:27] <daveake> Can you smell a fart in space?
[19:27] <lowerstoford> Pressure
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:27] <lowerstoford> I also found 11 DOF
[19:27] <lowerstoford> 11 is GPS
[19:27] <eroomde> our little Analog monolithic black IMU is 10DOF
[19:27] <Elwell> daveake: only one way to find out :-) -- I predict a funding application
[19:27] <eroomde> well, gps is 3 really
[19:27] <eroomde> or 6
[19:28] <eroomde> DOF is a slightly ropey term in this context
[19:28] <lowerstoford> I know that just what they call them
[19:28] <daveake> Elwell Sounds like a good idea. I propose that I supply the farts.
[19:28] <lowerstoford> But 10 DOF from China £10 11 from Germany £84
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[19:28] <eroomde> lol
[19:28] <jonsowman> kickfarter :X
[19:28] <eroomde> ours was about £600 :)
[19:28] <Elwell> daveake: ha! you're just in it for the free flight
[19:28] <lowerstoford> HA
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman, ROFL
[19:29] <lowerstoford> £600 for 10DOF?
[19:29] <eroomde> yes
[19:29] <lowerstoford> umm....
[19:30] <eroomde> they're not all created equal
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> lol good one
[19:30] <eroomde> this is goin on a rocket so had more stringent requirements
[19:30] <Elwell> DK3WN seems to be rather seriously into strand-1 and other sats
[19:30] <Upu> ping craag
[19:31] <lowerstoford> Rocket? are you in the UK?
[19:31] <Upu> -> http://i.imgur.com/x2z9hIc.jpg
[19:31] <eroomde> yes
[19:31] <craag> Upu: :D
[19:31] <lowerstoford> Where are you getting you motors? I have 2 never flow 29mm here
[19:31] <Upu> send it on :)
[19:31] <eroomde> we build our own liquid biprops
[19:31] <Upu> will be 30 ft up a pole
[19:31] <Upu> what time is launch ?
[19:32] <eroomde> but i have flown amagtuer solids up to N before, got them from Rockts N Things
[19:32] <eroomde> in crawley
[19:32] <craag> Upu: Estimate from the blast team is about 12:30 - 1pm :P
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:32] <Upu> ok see you about 3pm
[19:32] <craag> They are getting to the launch site at 9:30.....
[19:32] <lowerstoford> Have I seen you on the UKHAS 2012 video?
[19:32] <Upu> with or without the payload this time ?
[19:32] <eroomde> lowerstoford: possibly yes
[19:33] <Elwell> eroomde: how fast do you need to sample when in rocket mode?
[19:33] <eroomde> i did give a talk
[19:33] <Upu> evening lowerstoford
[19:33] <eroomde> Elwell: not mega fast actually, 50Hz is fine for the guidance loops
[19:33] <lowerstoford> Upa: Evening
[19:33] <eroomde> when we're datalogging we run faster, maybe 1 or 2kHz
[19:33] <eroomde> that's for post-flight analysis though
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> payload now looks like this http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/2/7/5yv94z-klgd3p-k0a8/IMG6606.jpeg
[19:33] <craag> Upu: With I hope. But I'll be following a few hours later, so I can always bring whatever they've forgotten. eg balloon, string, batteries...
[19:33] <Upu> lol
[19:34] <Upu> so what is the telemetry I'm looking for
[19:34] <Upu> RTTY @
[19:34] <lowerstoford> All this chatting and I still haven't turned to soldering iron on!
[19:34] <Upu> ?
[19:34] <craag> 600 baud. Probably a bit too fast, but it'll test the channel.
[19:34] <eroomde> lowerstoford: it happens
[19:34] <craag> at 100mw
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[19:34] <daveake> craag I forgot the balloon on Wednesday
[19:34] <eroomde> whole days of work can be lost to irc
[19:35] <Upu> 100mW ? nice
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> the straws were suggested by fsphil I think
[19:35] <Upu> whats shift ?
[19:35] <Upu> and 7n2 ?
[19:35] <craag> Upu: 650 shift, 7n2
[19:35] <Upu> thanks
[19:35] <Upu> ok I'll be set
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[19:36] <craag> Might be Rv, rtl-sdr reckons it is, funcube reckons it isn't, so i really don't know.
[19:36] <Upu> Funcube set to reverse IQ ?
[19:36] <craag> yep
[19:36] <Upu> sorry swap I&Q ?
[19:36] <craag> yeah thats right.
[19:36] <Upu> ta
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[19:40] <mclane> upu: what frequency is y
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[19:40] <mclane> sorry is the antenna on the picture
[19:40] <lowerstoford> eroomde: if you ever need a testing ground we have load of land that could be used. Meathine/NO2 engines have been known to "Make and fire themselves " here before
[19:40] <mclane> ?
[19:41] <Upu> 868Mhz
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[19:41] <mclane> ok, what are you doing on 868?
[19:41] <Upu> I threw it together today as craag is launching a payload on that freq tomorrow
[19:41] <mclane> ah ok
[19:41] <Upu> just a 1/4 wave
[19:42] <mclane> yea I have something similar
[19:43] <mclane> to be used in one of my next payloads
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, btw my antenna http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/2/7/5yv94z-klgd3p-k0a8/IMG6606.jpeg
[19:43] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:43] <eroomde> lowerstoford: thank you for the offer. however, i am a principal engineer at airborne engineering, where we have some dedicated reinforced concrete, fully instrumented rocket test stands and propellent storage facilities
[19:43] <eroomde> eg the test bauy on the front page of ael.co.uk
[19:43] <eroomde> people come and pay us good money to test rocket engines for them!
[19:44] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> hah
[19:45] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: where do you have the radiator (facing down)?
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah that one is bent over
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> can you see the multimeter?
[19:45] <lowerstoford> Eroomde: Sound like a very cool job. I was only joking, the cows don't really enjoy rockets :-)
[19:45] <Hiena> Sigh...Anybody has a good, simple schematic for an A class, VHF amplifire around 2 or 5W without a dozen coils, caps and expensive transistors?
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> the yellow-striped straw it is
[19:46] <mclane> ok
[19:46] <mattbrejza> Hiena: looked thru analog.com?
[19:46] <mattbrejza> will still need some coils
[19:46] <costyn> Upu: what was that cute little antenna for you linked earlier?
[19:46] <costyn> Upu: and was wondering if you received our habamp yet?
[19:47] <mattbrejza> ok none for VHF, nm
[19:47] <Upu> its for craag's flight tomorrow costyn, just a 1/4 wave on 868Mhz
[19:47] <Upu> and negative on the habamp
[19:47] <Upu> though did get cuddykid's board today cuddykid
[19:47] <costyn> Upu: ok, thx
[19:47] <costyn> Upu: chinese new year ... it's why all mail these days is slow right? ;)
[19:48] <Upu> lol
[19:48] <Upu> coming from china yes :)
[19:48] <Steffanx> When tomorrow is the big launch costyn ?
[19:48] <costyn> Steffanx: 10:00 UTC
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> daveake, just been reading your write up for the pi payload
[19:48] <Steffanx> And normal dutch time? :)
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> are you still sending the RTTY to ntx2 over serial?
[19:48] <costyn> Steffanx: 11:00 :)
[19:48] <costyn> Steffanx: you Dutch?
[19:48] <cuddykid> glad it got to you ok upu :)
[19:48] <Steffanx> Yes yes
[19:48] <daveake> yup
[19:49] <costyn> Steffanx: where?
[19:49] <Steffanx> Near Groningen
[19:49] <Upu> not looked at it yet cuddykid
[19:49] <costyn> ah
[19:49] <Hiena> mattbrejza: Yeah. I'm suck with the tuned circuits (no scope), and my good old thrustworthy complementer headphone amp wont go ower 500mW at 60MHz.
[19:49] <costyn> Steffanx: well if all goes well there should be a live video stream tommorow during setup & launch
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> i was just thinking instead of having it switch between GPS and rtty like i belive it does on the same serial port, you could use a cheap usb-ttl board
[19:49] <costyn> Steffanx: not sure how good the quality will be, we do have wifi there, so should be ok
[19:49] <cuddykid> no worries upu - i think it's the radio that might have packed in
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> another component to break/get in the way though i gess
[19:50] <Steffanx> costyn where can i see it?
[19:50] <daveake> Oh it no longer switches - the gps is i2c
[19:50] <costyn> Steffanx: ustre.am/SMza
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> ah i see, cool :)
[19:50] <Upu> could be an issue as I think my hot air has packed up
[19:50] <daveake> much better solution :)
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> yeah, is that the ublox from upu still?
[19:51] <daveake> yup
[19:52] <lowerstoford> right Pizza then soldering.......
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> Interesting, looked like a nice flight daveake! glad to see it was recovered ok with the pi etc onboard
[19:54] <daveake> yeah easy peasy
[19:54] <daveake> Very pleased the 3G stuff worked as planned
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> was the 3g stick just 3g or 3g/gprs/gsm?
[19:55] <daveake> I used it for 3G internet
[19:55] <daveake> You can of course do messaging if you want with them
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> dont suppose you logged the signal against altitude did you?
[19:56] <Upu> lol
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> end the controversy about not using mobiles as primary trackers haha
[19:56] <Upu> 0 = strong
[19:56] <Upu> 300 = none
[19:56] <Upu> meters
[19:56] <daveake> You can't if it's connected to 3G (as far as I know)
[19:57] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_DLgJEa0k
[19:57] <daveake> As Upu Said
[19:57] <jcoxon> predictions are holding for tomorrows Pico flight
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> thats the video ive been looking for upu cheers
[19:57] <Upu> let me run for here jcoxon
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, btw did you see my payload intro?
[19:58] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o65pmcx702i8qba/2013-03-01%2016.25.12.jpg
[19:58] <eroomde> tis the car
[19:58] <eroomde> don;t have a firing pic yet as had to get to london the sec the firing was over
[19:58] <Upu> interesting take on "car"
[19:59] <daveake> chase car?
[19:59] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecuqj0468wl43p8/2013-03-01%2016.06.04.jpg
[19:59] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/14625_trj001.gif
[19:59] <Upu> I like that
[19:59] <Upu> everyone gets a bite
[19:59] <eroomde> the anchor and load cell mount we knocked up in the bg, rocket motors on the car rear in fg
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, XD!
[20:01] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xukspf6yvl72nyy/2013-03-01%2011.55.22.jpg
[20:01] <eroomde> N20 tanks under the fairing
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[20:02] <chrisstubbs> Upu is that another of your pico launches?
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, I like how the project website is just given as .com
[20:02] <Upu> yeah for tomorrow
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> oh btw
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> are there any flights on March 5 besides my planned one?
[20:03] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: yeah that's my favourite bit too
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> Ah hasnt appeared in my outlook ICS yet, will tune in if i can :)
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:04] <eroomde> if i were being sleuthy tho i might see what happens if i put the word above the '.com' before the '.com' in the web browser
[20:04] <eroomde> words*
[20:05] <Hiena> eroomde: Interesting. I have a very, very, similar hat.
[20:06] <eroomde> james likes that hat
[20:07] <Elwell> eroomde: I guess there's a load cell on the end of that chain (above grey box)
[20:08] <eroomde> yes
[20:08] <eroomde> and the grey box has one ofour dataloggers
[20:09] <Elwell> this a uni project or a personal interest?
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[20:10] <eroomde> which is connected to an ethernet cable which runs back into the ethernet patch panel in the testbay
[20:10] <eroomde> neither
[20:10] <eroomde> the car is a project by some friends of ours
[20:10] <eroomde> we develop and test rocket engines as part of our company
[20:11] <eroomde> so we're a good place for them to come and conduct instrumented firings
[20:11] <eroomde> which is what happened today
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[20:12] <eroomde> we had another datalogger measuring stuff on the motors themselves
[20:13] <Elwell> aaah, so you're airboune eng?
[20:13] <eroomde> yup
[20:14] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: theres a uk launch planned for the 5th
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> which frequency?
[20:15] <mattbrejza> all of the frequencies (almost)
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[20:16] <mattbrejza> .077/.223/.235/.651
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> at least a normal launch in the UK doesn't reach over to the continent too much
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:16] <junderwood> I hope it doesn't! We want it back!
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:17] <junderwood> Lunar_Lander, you're launching at 9:00 UT?
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:22] <junderwood> We're planning to launch a couple of hours later.
[20:23] <junderwood> If the flights overlap, I think the only listeners who will be able to hear both at once would be in the Netherlands
[20:24] <junderwood> Anyone in the UK listening to your flight would need a yagi, which would cut out our flight
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> we will probably have landing at T+2 h
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> junderwood, I hope the lauch will happen anyway
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> maybe you read above that some of our team members couldn't attend the meeting so we have to do the payload mechanics on monday
[20:27] <junderwood> There's nothing like leaving until the last minute!
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[20:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[20:45] <Upu> evening Brian
[20:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> anyone here using HRD for remote radio control?
[20:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Anthony
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[20:45] <mfa298> OZ1SKY_Brian: I've used it in the past
[20:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> mfa298 is it correct it can´t relay the audio ?
[20:46] <mfa298> I dont think so (unless its appeared recently)
[20:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok then ill stop trying and just use skype for audio transfer
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[20:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> that works, and then i also got a webcam of the radio at the same time
[20:47] <mfa298> I think other people have used the likes of skype or echolink for the audio
[20:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes that works well too, but would have been easyer to have in the same program
[20:48] <mfa298> I think I've either used to for remote control during habs so the waterfall as generally been good enough or to save walking accross the room all the time.
[20:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats what i did with AVA also, but i like to have the audio as well
[20:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i moved, but the radios and antennas are still at the old place, so i need to remote them from there
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[20:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> for now, untill the wx gets better and i can move the lot here
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[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56BkA-E-_k&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> junderwood, yea
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:56] <jcoxon> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SI4431-433MHZ-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-Shield-Board-Remote-Signal-CC1101-1100-/230741465146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b943583a
[20:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats a nice little tx
[20:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> trx
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[20:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar, so i think im all setup for your launch now, remote wise
[20:59] <junderwood> It's a flight computer on a board. All you need is a GPS.
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, I hope my team comes together for payload cord mechanics on monday
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> we had personal problems preventing one of us to attend today
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> and he planned the cord setup
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> but our payload now has straws xD http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/2/7/5yv94z-klgd3p-k0a8/IMG6606.jpeg
[21:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> good
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[21:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> crazy day tomorrow with all those launches lol
[21:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> can´t wait :-)
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[21:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> The dutch should be easy to copy, the rest is abit unsure
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:04] <MrP> evening, i'm calling in for some advice, if anyone can help it'd be very much appreciated!
[21:04] <number10> some are provisional OZ1SKY_Brian so all may not launch
[21:05] <anerDev> hi guys !
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> did someone of you noticed the SpX-2 launch?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> the failed solar panels and thruster pods on the Dragon capsule
[21:06] <mclane> nice video, Lunar
[21:07] <mclane> saw it yesterday
[21:07] <mclane> cannot answer immediately, I am coding
[21:07] <jcoxon> MrP, don't ask to ask
[21:07] <jcoxon> just ask
[21:08] <MrP> thanks jcoxon
[21:08] <jcoxon> :-p
[21:09] <MrP> I'm a Science teacher at a school in the north east, and some students have appraoched me with the idea of doing a HAB launch. I appreciate you guys probably get asked by complete beginners a lot, so apologies if I'm asking question that have been asked a million times before!
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[21:10] <jcoxon> MrP, we are always happy to help (tis a friendly bunch on here)
[21:10] <Upu> Do we have to call you MrP ? :) Its like being back at school :)
[21:10] <jcoxon> one place to check before asking is the wiki
[21:10] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[21:10] <Upu> Quick question is Selby one of yours ?
[21:11] <MrP> haha, call me Jay
[21:11] <MrP> nothing to do with me, Selby...
[21:11] <Upu> ok
[21:11] <Upu> a pupil who's been mailing around, I suggested they get their teacher on the case
[21:12] <MrP> ah fair enough!
[21:12] <Upu> we have a number of teachers doing this with their classes
[21:12] <Upu> AdamC is one when he's here
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[21:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> number10 yes i did see that, we´ll see
[21:13] <Upu> one bit of advice is keep it simple, the Raspberry Pi is tempting but complex
[21:13] <Upu> use an Arduino
[21:13] <Upu> or Pic if you use those
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[21:14] <nigelvh> Yeah, start simple
[21:14] <MrP> funny you should mention the Raspberry Pi...I brought one home from work to play with this weekend!
[21:15] <Upu> Well don't get me wrong they are great but overly complex for this purpose
[21:15] <Upu> Have a read of http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[21:15] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 is an article on getting a radio working with an Arduino
[21:15] <Upu> which isn't that complex
[21:16] <Upu> And some guide lines here : http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
[21:16] <MrP> I've considered the arduino approach, but we've also looked at 'out of the box' solutions for ease...but they can be pricey.
[21:16] <Upu> there are no out of the box solutions we'd recommend
[21:16] <Upu> apart from the SPOT Satellite tracker
[21:16] <Upu> but even that doesn't work above a certain altitude
[21:16] <fsphil> even those are iffy
[21:16] <Upu> Radio tracker is where its at
[21:17] <MrP> Also looked at using a mobile phone running an app that we can track through a browser...but obviously that's not great at altitude, and also we'd be at the mercy of signal.
[21:17] <MrP> ok, so radio tracking is the way to go
[21:17] <Upu> exactly
[21:17] <Upu> yep back it up with the others
[21:17] <Upu> but radio tracking gives you live telemetry and live predictions as to the landing at www.spacenear.us/tracker
[21:17] <Upu> which is way better
[21:17] <MrP> what sort of kit are we talking? We're a pretty small independent school, so our budget isn't marvellous...
[21:18] <Upu> < £100 for the hardware
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> of the order of £100
[21:18] <Upu> gas and ballon ~ £200 ish
[21:18] <fsphil> yea the price has dropped a lot since I started
[21:18] <MrP> that's definitely something we could stretch too; excellent!
[21:18] <fsphil> for hardware
[21:18] <fsphil> sadly not the case for helium
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i can agree to that. Our launch had both radio tracker and 2 gps trackers. The radio won.
[21:19] Action: SpeedEvil notes again that ethane is 45p/m^3.
[21:19] <Upu> You can approach people for sponsorship
[21:19] <MrP> so let's talk radio tracking then...I've seen that the 70cm radiometrix seems to get all the love...
[21:20] <fsphil> the good old NTX2
[21:20] <MrP> oh don't worry about the sponsorship...I've been on the phone to garmin, SPOT, Gopro...trying to see what they will give us!
[21:20] <Upu> simple and works
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[21:22] <MrP> Reading the article about arduino and the radiometrix seems like that should be easy enough to sort out. how about a radio and aerial for tracking?
[21:23] <MrP> am i right in thinking that we should be 'chasing' the balloon in a vehicle as the radio range will be significantly shorter on the ground due to LOS?
[21:23] <Upu> well firstly use a radio and you get the UKHAS tracking network behind you
[21:23] <fsphil> you can get little mag-mount antennas for < £15
[21:23] <fsphil> for the top of the chase car
[21:23] <Upu> which means you can drive whilst people track it for you
[21:24] <MrP> loving the sense of community!
[21:24] <Upu> however I strongly suggest you get some experience in tracking
[21:24] <Upu> as below 1000 meters remote stations may loose it
[21:24] <MrP> suggestions for getting this experience?
[21:24] <fsphil> track other flights
[21:25] <Upu> and also
[21:25] <Upu> once you have a payload working
[21:25] <Upu> give it to someone
[21:25] <Upu> get them to drive 1/2 mile away
[21:25] <Upu> then you have to find it
[21:25] <MrP> ah that's a great idea.
[21:25] <fsphil> radio fox hunting :)
[21:25] <Upu> yep
[21:25] <MrP> to be fair that's something we can get the students involved in too. awesome
[21:26] <Upu> would suggest a Yagi antenna which you can make out of an old tape measure and some dowling
[21:26] <Upu> seriously you have a whole years curriculum here :)
[21:26] <Upu> where are you based ?
[21:26] <costyn> yea there's so much involved in HABbing :)
[21:26] <MrP> We're up in Teesside...the town's called Eaglescliffe
[21:26] <costyn> hardware, software, electronics, physics, weather
[21:26] <Upu> Oh Teesside know it well :)
[21:26] <Upu> just avoid Wilton
[21:27] <Upu> land on ICI and you're on your own
[21:27] <MrP> haha true...used to live about 2 ins from wilton site
[21:27] <MrP> *ins
[21:27] <MrP> *mins
[21:27] <Upu> Worked at Wilton Research Center for a year
[21:27] <Upu> petrochemical wonderland
[21:27] <fsphil> that's quite near the Dales and Moors isn't it?
[21:28] <Upu> more to toward the coast
[21:28] <fsphil> ah got it on the map
[21:29] <Upu> its quite an international community here as well
[21:29] <Upu> ignore the UK part of UKHAS
[21:29] <MrP> We were thinking of launching from the moors. as our school grounds are pretty close to Durham Tees Valley airport (Teesside formerly)
[21:29] <MrP> ah ok
[21:29] <Upu> its likely your balloon will be tracked by people in France , Belgium Denmark etc
[21:30] <Upu> in fact tomorrow is a big launch day
[21:30] <fsphil> it certainly is
[21:30] <Upu> if you have time pop on here
[21:30] <Upu> and check out www.spacenear.us/tracker
[21:30] <MrP> I don't think i've got much on tomorrow, so will try to wander on!
[21:30] <lowerstoford> HI Guys
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> wb lowerstoford
[21:31] <fsphil> I'll have to have a listen for the .nl flight
[21:31] <fsphil> howdy lowerstoford
[21:31] <lowerstoford> I have used the software serial code from ukhas and am getting nubers and figures from the serial port. How long untill it gets a lock?
[21:32] <lowerstoford> I have been outside as its the chip antenna
[21:32] <Upu> got a time ?
[21:32] <Upu> I'm working on an "Eduhab" tracker for schools
[21:33] <Upu> using the most robust stuff we have, active Sarantel antenna, LMT2 transmitter
[21:33] <Upu> won't be pico but it will be solid
[21:33] <fsphil> linear reg?
[21:33] <Upu> no will end up with a boost on it
[21:33] <Upu> as PCB will have 2 battery clips
[21:33] <fsphil> onboard gps antenna?
[21:33] <Upu> Sarantel active
[21:33] <Upu> screw on stub
[21:33] <Upu> clip in batteries
[21:34] <Upu> (I found some clips with locks on)
[21:34] <Upu> screw on antenna
[21:34] <MrP> sounds interesting
[21:34] <Upu> laucnh
[21:34] <fsphil> *sequence shortened :)
[21:34] <Upu> however I would like people to make their own and use it as a backup
[21:34] <Upu> lol indeed fsphil
[21:34] <fsphil> sounds good
[21:34] <fsphil> I've been wondering if having an sma socket for gps is a better option
[21:35] <fsphil> if it got damaged, just plug in a new on
[21:35] <fsphil> _e
[21:35] <fsphil> +e
[21:35] <fsphil> ack
[21:35] <Upu> yep
[21:35] <Upu> considering it
[21:35] <Upu> the active sarantel is £16
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> what is the best method to get that sarantel antenna cap to stick?
[21:36] <Upu> Hot glue Lunar
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[21:37] <chrisstubbs> How does the SMD antenna work, does it connect to gnd on one side or somthing?
[21:38] <Upu> no just a single connection
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> ah ok cool
[21:38] <fsphil> it's like the active element in a quarter wave antenna
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> and they get a fix ok outdoors, just take a little longer than the sarantel?
[21:38] <fsphil> they work surprisingly well
[21:39] <craag> chrisstubbs: mine gets a lock by the window, just takes a minute or two.
[21:39] <fsphil> the one I used got a lock indoors, about 3m from a window
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> think i will give one a go on my SMD board then
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> pretty good results then sounds about the same as my standard ublox board from upu
[21:39] <chrisstubbs> can you not just use a 1/4 wave bit of pcb track?
[21:39] <lowerstoford> ,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48
[21:40] <Upu> tbh over last few day GPS has been a bit iffy
[21:40] <lowerstoford> indoors, going to sit outside for 5
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> so no lock
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, GPS in general?
[21:40] <craag> chrisstubbs: You could, but the chip antenna is very good at not receiving other frequencies, acts a bit like a filter.
[21:40] <Upu> my testing here
[21:40] <chrisstubbs> oh ok i see, cheers
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[21:41] <fsphil> I suppose a pcb trace and saw filter would work too
[21:41] <fsphil> but probably no cheaper
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[21:41] <MrP> can anyone suggest a low cost radio that we would be able to buy for our project?
[21:41] <chrisstubbs> yeah for £2.50 or whatever its not bad
[21:42] <Upu> For testing you can use a SDR
[21:42] <chrisstubbs> MrP Software defined radios are a very affordable solution
[21:42] <fsphil> for testing and basic tracking, the rtl-sdr modules are great
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[21:42] <jcoxon> hey craag
[21:42] <chrisstubbs> not 100% practical of tracking on the go though
[21:42] <craag> jcoxon: yo
[21:42] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70
[21:42] <Upu> disclaimer thats my shop
[21:42] <Upu> other radios are availble
[21:42] <jcoxon> might need your southern tracker station for my flight...
[21:42] <fsphil> other shops you mean? :)
[21:42] <MrP> haha I'll have a look
[21:42] <Upu> no there are no other shops availble :)
[21:43] <fsphil> lol
[21:43] <lowerstoford> UPU have you 3.3v with helix in stock again now?
[21:43] <Upu> I also sell the NTX2's and GPS but please do speak to me before you order
[21:43] <Upu> yes I do lowerstoford
[21:43] <Upu> with the new antenna
[21:43] <craag> jcoxon: Oh yeah? When are you launching?
[21:43] <lowerstoford> OH! I ordered last week and you only had chip i couldnt wait
[21:43] <Upu> hmm let me check they've been in stock for a week or two
[21:44] <lowerstoford> Would helix have got a fix indoors?
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[21:44] <jcoxon> craag, 1500
[21:44] <Upu> it depends
[21:44] <Upu> they are all passive
[21:44] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasix#predicted_flight_path
[21:44] <Upu> so any interference may cause issues
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[21:44] <Upu> yeah its in stock on the system
[21:44] <chrisstubbs> jcoxon, i will be tuning in from chelmsford :)
[21:44] <Upu> do you get a time lowerstoford ?
[21:45] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, great - should go over the top of you
[21:45] <craag> jcoxon: Ok, I should be back from sharp, might head out to a hill somewhere to track yours after :)
[21:45] <jcoxon> yeah it'll be a slow flight
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> awesome, do you have a predictor link?
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[21:45] <lowerstoford> no time just as ai posted ,,,,,,
[21:45] <MrP> sorry Upu, perhaps my nomenclature was incorrect....In common person speak I meant 'device what I can use to listen for my balloon with'
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[21:46] <Upu> the SDR :)
[21:46] <Upu> for testing :)
[21:46] <Upu> in the car a proper radio but come speak to us before you lauch
[21:46] <Upu> lowerstoford thats odd
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> oops sorry jcoxon just saw the wiki link
[21:46] <Upu> no time means no signal at all
[21:46] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, i'll get a cusf link
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[21:46] <Upu> do you have a 3.3v FTDI board ?
[21:47] <lowerstoford> Very Old house 500mm walls with flint. Will go outside for some "Fresh Air" and see what happens
[21:47] <Upu> hehe ok
[21:47] <lowerstoford> 3.3v FTDI Yes
[21:47] <Upu> ok if you plug it into that
[21:47] <Upu> rx to tx etc
[21:47] <Upu> and go download ublox ucenter
[21:48] <Upu> you can get some diagnostic info from it
[21:48] <lowerstoford> Was going to do that next...
[21:48] <lowerstoford> Back in 5..........
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[21:49] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, well nearly over you http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c6ed869cddb64051b71a6a44b0423b554787ad5c
[21:51] <Upu> MrP you can pick up ICOM IC-R10's from E-bay for £100
[21:51] <craag> g7ogx and g0nzo have better setups than mine for tracking it over the channel. I think astra will probably cover it as well!
[21:51] <craag> Of course, I'll chip in :)
[21:51] <Elijah_> 3yeah
[21:51] <Upu> if you can get the money the Yaesu FT817 is a great radio for tracking
[21:51] <jcoxon> we'll start recruiting when its actually floating :p
[21:51] <Upu> tomorrow is going to stretch the network :)
[21:52] <MrP> Thanks Upu, I'll have a look!
[21:52] <Upu> 817 = ~ £500
[21:52] <chrisstubbs> jcoxon, awesome
[21:52] <chrisstubbs> hmm time to test my line of sight program again, hopefully the elevation API will let me back in
[21:52] <jcoxon> Upu, might have to use filters
[21:52] <jcoxon> just to make sense of the mess
[21:52] <Upu> indeed :)
[21:53] <Upu> going to need flight director Coxon on the case I suspect
[21:53] <craag> I am worried that fizzle will clog spacenear quite badly.
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[21:53] <Upu> how come craag ?
[21:53] <craag> many many strings
[21:53] <jcoxon> craag, not many listeners...
[21:53] <craag> no, ture
[21:53] <craag> *true
[21:53] <Upu> I wouldn't worry about it
[21:54] <mclane> is there a c++ implementation of the ssdv codecs (I am lazy ;-))
[21:54] <Upu> speak to fsphil mclane
[21:54] <lowerstoford> Walked outside 1m from house, got TIME. 10 seconds later got fix. Walked near house fix dropped. Conclusion - my house is made of lead!
[21:54] <Upu> there you go :)
[21:55] <lowerstoford> :)
[21:55] <lowerstoford> Radio next then...............?
[21:55] <Upu> well
[21:56] <Upu> you could work out how to output a UKHAS style telemetry string to a software serial debug
[21:56] <fsphil> mclane: no but it will compile fine in C++. give me a PM if you need some pointers
[21:56] <Upu> because if you do that
[21:56] <Upu> the radio will take you 10 mins
[21:56] <chrisstubbs> who should i direct a quick question to regarding the CSV output of the predictor?
[21:56] <lowerstoford> Any idea why my RTL-SDR stick is showing so much noise? the peaks are very small? T-Stick
[21:57] <Upu> what antenna ?
[21:57] <lowerstoford> UPU: OK I will do that. Going to have a look at some other code that used the same kit
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[21:58] <lowerstoford> Have tried with Stupid one it comes with for FM and roof anttena for FM
[21:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lowerstoford sounds like you live in a faraday cage lol
[21:58] <lowerstoford> have made a moxon for HAB but not tested it yet
[21:59] <lowerstoford> OZ1SKY_Brian: I think I do, mobiles don't work and I have 6 wifi access point to cover 75% of the house! 3 bed
[21:59] <craag> huh, i'm not on the sharp flight doc
[22:00] <fsphil> yikes lowerstoford
[22:00] <nigelvh> He must have lead walls.
[22:00] <Upu> going to make testing fun
[22:01] <craag> Yeah, I had a hackathon building a hab tracker in a shielded lab, that sucked.
[22:03] <craag> We put 1m wires on the gps board and dropped it out the window, but it sounds like even that won't work for you!
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[22:03] <MrP> Upu, can you advise whether either of these devices would be suitable? apologies for beginner a complete beginner at this!
[22:03] <MrP> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALINCO-DJ-X30T-RADIO-SCANNER-RECEIVER-AIR-BAND-HAM-/271161008904?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3f2274a308
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[22:04] <MrP> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-VR-120D-Communications-Receiver-Radio-Scanner-/190803118563?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2c6cc089e3
[22:04] <Upu> no need to apologise
[22:04] <lowerstoford> And my shed roof i lines with 10mm of foil, so I cant even go out there :-)
[22:04] <Upu> negative on both
[22:04] <Upu> it needs to do
[22:04] <Upu> SSB on 70cms(434Mhz)
[22:05] <lowerstoford> I needs to type betterer
[22:05] <Upu> whats the old Yaesu that does it ?
[22:05] <MrP> cheers, will resume the search on the 'bay!
[22:05] <craag> ft790?
[22:05] <Upu> yep
[22:06] <Upu> one of those MrP
[22:06] <MrP> will have a look around, cheers guys
[22:07] <fsphil> the ft790's are not as common as they used to be, but awesome if you can get one
[22:08] <Upu> me internal components were dislodged.
[22:08] <Upu> [21:06] <Upu> However I soldered all the components ba
[22:08] <Upu> ignore sorry
[22:08] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAESU-FT-817ND-and-matching-LDG-AUTOMATIC-TUNER-Z817-/170996205723?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D5944709109959416411%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D190803118563%26
[22:09] <MrP> looks good, but probably more than budget will allow sadly!
[22:09] <Upu> it will go for more than that
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> wow
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> looks like the £300 for mine wasnt a bad price after all
[22:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> why not a sdr?
[22:09] <fsphil> 300 was fantastic
[22:09] <fsphil> was it in good condition?
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[22:10] <chrisstubbs> waters and stanton
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> yeah its all pretty tidy
[22:10] <fsphil> good catch then
[22:10] <mfa298> I've not checked for a while but I'd expect an 817 to hit at least £400
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> i went to the shop 3 times and spoke to the guy ont he phone a few times
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[22:10] Action: craag wishes yaesu would release a new version of the 817. Partly because it's really quite old tech, and also because the second-hand market would be swamped with 817s :D
[22:10] <chrisstubbs> he must have been sick of my questions but it got the price down a fair bit in the end
[22:11] <MrP> I've downloaded an SDR for my macbook, but I assume I'll need to whack an antennae in to get any usage out of it!
[22:11] <fsphil> an 817 with better battery would be great
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> think they wanted £350 to start
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> running mine of kodak AA's
[22:11] <fsphil> and an N socket on the back
[22:11] <mfa298> I'm wondering how many 817's have blown their finals and if they get sold often.
[22:11] <Upu> and you'll need a dongle MrP
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> not quite the same standard as energizer lithiums but its £1 for 10
[22:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil what does it have on the back?
[22:12] <MrP> forgive my naivety but what sort of dongle? 3G for interwebs?
[22:12] <fsphil> SO-239
[22:12] <fsphil> or whatever that socket is called
[22:12] <craag> MrP: SDR dongle. From upu's shop I'd recommend.
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[22:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cowboy jack, whats i call it
[22:12] <MrP> oh I see, will take a peek!
[22:12] <fsphil> haha
[22:12] <fsphil> they're really not good plugs/sockets at all
[22:13] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70 MrP
[22:13] <craag> MrP: It's the actual hardware that, very simply, converts radio => usb
[22:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> they are easy to make, and use, but i also like N better, or 7/16
[22:13] <Upu> none in stock atm
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> MrP i found UPUs SDR a great starting point. the software is pretty easy to use too once its all set up
[22:14] <mfa298> about the only thing going for the so239 is you can use a longwire on a banana plug,
[22:14] <mfa298> but a proper tuned antenna is usually better
[22:14] <MrP> Oh I see, excellent. Will these work on any OS? or are they purely windows?
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> sdr# for windows and mac (and linux i think)
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> no idea how the drivers work in mac though
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> my bad sdr# is only windows haha
[22:15] <MrP> ok, no worries
[22:16] <chrisstubbs> but there are loads of other softwares
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[22:22] <MrP> I've found some software that will work for SDR, just need the dongle, and i notice that Upu is out of stock...any alternatives?
[22:22] <Upu> I am out of stock yes
[22:23] <Upu> due 2 weeks
[22:23] <Upu> I think this does it : https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=281
[22:24] <jcoxon> MrP, the other option is a funcube
[22:24] <Upu> but doesn't have the SMA on it
[22:24] <Upu> but does have the ESD diode
[22:24] <Upu> yep FCD is viable
[22:24] <MrP> looked at the funcube...they seem to be on the pricey side.
[22:25] <Upu> they are but they are cheaper than the alternatives
[22:26] <MrP> true
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[22:27] <mclane> fsphil: I am getting linker errors when trying to compile ssdv
[22:27] <mclane> (I am using qtcreator in Linux)
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[22:27] <mclane> want to use the functions within my ground control sw
[22:28] <mclane> to decode images send from my payload
[22:28] <Elijah_> Have you tried any of the DVB-T dongles?
[22:28] <Elijah_> not sure they're as sensitive but they're pretty cheap
[22:29] <MrP> any good...v v v cheap? http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Receiver-Realtek-RTL2832U/dp/B009VBUYA0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362176901&sr=8-1
[22:29] <Jess--> for those wondering about chip antenna on the ublox I just fired mine up on top of my monitor in the office (no nearby window, just concrete walls) tracker transmits every 20 secs max and it locked for the 3rd transmission (so 40 secs max) $$VBRTEST,3,222628,5308274,11266,541,F,59,-241,5*B7B9
[22:30] <fsphil> mclane: what's the error?
[22:31] <Jess--> error?
[22:31] <mclane> undefined reference to 'encode_rs_8' in function ssdv_enc_get_packet
[22:31] <lowerstoford> this is the rtl SDR i bought http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330862192727?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[22:31] <fsphil> mclane: have you included the rs8.c + rs8.h files?
[22:32] <mclane> yes, sure
[22:32] <mclane> its a linker error, compile is fine
[22:32] <lowerstoford> jess: your house is made of paper then?
[22:32] <fsphil> it sounds like it's not linking rs8.o
[22:33] <lowerstoford> I have left mine by the window in my lead house for 30 mins still now time
[22:33] <Jess--> double concrete blocks in this part, only single storey in the office though
[22:33] <Jess--> I will admit 40 secs is unusually fast, it's usually about 1:30 outdoors
[22:34] <lowerstoford> I am going to try and make a test lead for the GPS using a 10m CAT5 cable and put it out the window. Or do all my testing 1m away from my house
[22:36] <jcoxon> i'm having lock issues today too
[22:38] <lowerstoford> Just test GPS with my iPhone and poor GPS (Outside) I blame the Dragon in the sky for the poor GPS.
[22:38] <mclane> fsphil: now it works (I had to clean the project first)
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[22:40] <fsphil> ah ha
[22:40] <fsphil> good
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[22:41] <mclane> GPS is not working well today
[22:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[22:44] <mclane> bye
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[22:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Daniels "RE: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project
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[22:55] <lowerstoford> jcoxon? are you still here?
[22:55] <jcoxon> yup
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[22:56] <jcoxon> lowerstoford, how can i help?
[22:57] <lowerstoford> I was looking at the code from craag site and it mention that its based on pico atlas code. Which version used the same kit?
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[22:57] <jcoxon> lowerstoford, its sort of constantly evolving
[22:58] <jcoxon> tomorrows fligth is using Pico94
[22:58] <lowerstoford> Im just looking for a starting point to develop my code from.
[22:59] <lowerstoford> so you are using RFM22b, uBlox MAx-6 mini pro?
[22:59] <lowerstoford> on number 94?
[22:59] <jcoxon> so thats a custom board
[22:59] <jcoxon> rfm22
[22:59] <jcoxon> max6
[22:59] <jcoxon> atmega328
[23:00] <jcoxon> but its running at 4mhz
[23:00] <jcoxon> so slower then a mini pro
[23:01] <lowerstoford> so in theory I code use the same code with my kit?
[23:02] <lowerstoford> I want to write my own, but always like something to learn from?
[23:02] <lowerstoford> *could
[23:03] <jcoxon> the only changes would be changing some of the delays etc
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[23:05] <lowerstoford> Thanks, I will have a look then. But the first few comments are beyond my understanding
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[23:07] <chrisstubbs> lowerstoford, have you looked at tinyGPS?
[23:07] <lowerstoford> frequency shift registers?
[23:07] <chrisstubbs> my code is completley based around that
[23:07] <lowerstoford> tinyGPS? works with uBlox
[23:08] <lowerstoford> sorry chris, but im not sure I have found your site yet
[23:08] <lowerstoford> what are your payloads called
[23:09] <chrisstubbs> my code is for NTX2 but the GPS side should be the same
[23:10] <chrisstubbs> http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[23:11] <chrisstubbs> by all means try jcoxons code, his is all tested and proven
[23:11] <lowerstoford> No, Im wrong, I have been on your ARC Welding site before :-)
[23:11] <lowerstoford> It was one of the first sites I found when I discovered HAB
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> :O wow i didnt think my site stood out that much. just a little ticker of what im up to tbh thats why there isnt a whole load of detail
[23:13] <lowerstoford> whats the advantage of tinyGPS over .... well not?
[23:13] <nigelvh> Getting GPS data vs not getting gps data
[23:14] <chrisstubbs> haha
[23:14] <chrisstubbs> sorry im in php/google API mode still. let me take a look
[23:14] <chrisstubbs> once the libraries are set up for tinygps you can get the coords simply by:
[23:15] <chrisstubbs> gps.get_position(&lat, &lon, &fix_age);
[23:15] <chrisstubbs> amongst other things such as course and speed and time
[23:15] <nigelvh> There are things that I would have done differently in tinyGPS, but it's reasonably small, works, and I didn't have to write it, so I'm not complaining.
[23:15] <chrisstubbs> then its just a case of rearranging that data into a telementry string, and sending it over radio
[23:15] <lowerstoford> OK so easier to understand and code. Sounds better for me
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[23:16] <chrisstubbs> you can connect the GPS over softwareserial so you can still use hardware serial for debugging
[23:16] <lowerstoford> any comments on this JCOXON?
[23:17] <chrisstubbs> however some people swear against this in flight as it can mess up timings, but ive never had a problem with SS
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[23:17] <lowerstoford> Software serial, do you not get the timing issuses?
[23:17] <lowerstoford> same!
[23:17] <nigelvh> I've used software serial at 4800baud, and it's worked. I haven't used it at 9600
[23:17] <chrisstubbs> i can understand why it would go wrong, but i have never noticed a problem
[23:17] <lowerstoford> not a problem changing from software to hardware for flight
[23:18] <chrisstubbs> true, probably not a bad idea tbh
[23:18] <chrisstubbs> if you can be bothered haha
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[23:20] <lowerstoford> Sorry but i just have to share this with you guys
[23:20] <lowerstoford> Elon Musk @elonmusk
[23:20] <lowerstoford> Just want to say thanks to @NASA for being the world's coolest customer. Looking forward to delivering the goods!
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> his craft has a major malfunction
[23:22] <lowerstoford> All fine now
[23:22] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm curious to hear what went wrong.
[23:23] <lowerstoford> Arduino mini pro reset when Dragon was released
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:23] <nigelvh> Haha
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> don't say that the Dragon runs on arduinos?
[23:24] <lowerstoford> They had to do a GSM SMS upload as it passed over OZ
[23:25] <lowerstoford> Elon Musk @elonmusk
[23:25] <lowerstoford> About to pass over Australia ground station and command inhibit override
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[23:26] <lowerstoford> All 4 thruster pods are now online and obit raising burn successful
[23:27] <lowerstoford> OK maybe the Arduino,GSM and SMS where not strictly correct but at least its fixed
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[23:29] <lowerstoford> SpaceX is built on redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. Two supply flights both with faults on the craft. The first was a success and I have no reason to think the second will not be
[23:30] <lowerstoford> They used the USAirForce Long Range comms system to uplink and reboot windows 8
[23:31] <nigelvh> "You know why they use Windows 3000 as a prison guard? Because it always locks up!" (Futurama Joke)
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[23:31] <lowerstoford> Elon Musk "Get Bill Gates here NOW!"
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> still one engine exploded last time
[23:32] <nigelvh> It was a materials failure
[23:32] <lowerstoford> Technically it didn't explode
[23:33] <lowerstoford> it looked good tho
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> but people are thinking heavily about tito wanting to fly to mars with them
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[23:34] <lowerstoford> redundancy! why have 3 engines, when you can have 9!
[23:35] <lowerstoford> And tito will fly to Mars using SpaceX tech
[23:36] <x-f> he said, he's too old for that
[23:37] <chrisstubbs> :O
[23:37] <chrisstubbs> IT WORKS, i think :)
[23:39] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/extras/maps/csvhandle/csv.php?uuid=8de2b3675b7edf9bb1904aa48f09ee31a3bd330b&button=Submit
[23:39] <lowerstoford> OK not tito my his project
[23:40] <chrisstubbs> Completley proof of concept, and not quite perfect (takes an age to load) but it loads a flight prediction and highlights the path red where i dont have line of sight
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[23:45] <lowerstoford> tested and it looks like you can see my whole flight: if i launch from my farm
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[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[23:45] <chrisstubbs> Im having problems with the google elevation API to get the terrain data
[23:45] <chrisstubbs> night lunar
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[23:46] <chrisstubbs> if you run too many requests over a period of time it just returns everything back as flat, so you have line of sight eveywhere haha
[23:46] <chrisstubbs> the documentation dosent specify a number of requests or time limit. i think i need to re-optimise
[23:47] <chrisstubbs> it runs 50 calls to the API per query :/
[23:47] <lowerstoford> where are you located tho chris
[23:47] <chrisstubbs> chelmsford
[23:47] <chrisstubbs> all mine that had red parts are not coming back blue
[23:47] <chrisstubbs> *now
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[23:48] <lowerstoford> ok so no where near me. so yes the the API calls
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[23:55] <chrisstubbs> right im off
[23:55] <lowerstoford> Cheers Chris
[23:56] <chrisstubbs> good luck with the tracker code lowerstoford
[23:56] <chrisstubbs> night
[23:56] <lowerstoford> Looking forward to writing it
[23:56] <chrisstubbs> haha yeah its good fun and the guys on here are great support
[23:57] <lowerstoford> night
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 2 2013