highaltitude.log.20130228

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[00:13] <Hibby> hello computer
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[00:16] <nigelvh> GREETING ACKNOWLEDGED
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[01:10] <arko> uggg, i really hate ham radio shops around here
[01:14] <arko> on the plus side i found out my school does have network analyzers after all
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[01:17] <nigelvh> What shop did you visit and what was less than great?
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[01:22] <arko> HRO
[01:22] <arko> nothing was good
[01:23] <arko> or even close to great
[01:23] <Randomskk> ugh, browsing reddit waiting for my gibbs sampler to run
[01:23] <nigelvh> I don't know much about the stores, but HRO is great as far as ordering stuff online.
[01:24] <nigelvh> I've ordered most of my radios from them.
[01:24] <nigelvh> What were you hoping for?
[01:33] <arko> well not standing around while the two guys behind the counter bicker away on the radio for one
[01:33] <arko> like 15 minutes or so
[01:33] <arko> i dunno
[01:33] <arko> that all aside
[01:33] <arko> im trying to find the best antenna to use for habs, either build and buy
[01:33] <arko> last time i asked, people suggested colinear
[01:34] <arko> which is what i'm aiming for now
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[01:53] <nigelvh> Yeah, a colinear is simple and would work alright for home use.
[01:53] <nigelvh> If the goal is to take it with you in the car, a handheld yagi would be better
[01:53] <nigelvh> That gives you some directionality
[01:54] <nigelvh> I just have a mag mounted vertical on my car and that usually works alright.
[01:54] <arko> cool
[01:54] <arko> figured so
[01:58] <Randomskk> c'mon converge you bastards
[01:58] Action: Randomskk swears at his simulations
[02:03] <arko> lol
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[05:48] <costyn> any peep from pie?
[05:49] <jarod> pie?
[05:50] <costyn> err
[05:50] <costyn> AVA
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[05:52] <arko> evening
[05:55] <costyn> howdy
[05:55] <arko> i have my station on with hopes it goes trans pacific
[05:56] <costyn> jarod: launching a balloon from the Hague on saturday if you're interested
[05:56] <arko> :)
[05:56] <costyn> arko: haha
[05:56] <arko> more like :P
[05:58] <nigelvh> Evening arko
[05:59] <arko> sup nigelvh
[06:00] <nigelvh> Livin' you know.
[06:01] <nigelvh> Contemplating how I want to connect my rig to the internet.
[06:02] <nigelvh> Control is an easy choice, but choosing audio does limit how it can be accessed.
[06:03] <Randomskk> hello 6am
[06:03] <Randomskk> :|
[06:03] <Randomskk> a fortnight exactly since I've been up all night working on coursework, and no coincidence
[06:03] <nigelvh> Hello 10pm
[06:03] <Randomskk> hah, I'd swap :P
[06:04] <arko> sounds better than my day
[06:04] <arko> i found out i moved up a tax bracket and owe money now
[06:04] <nigelvh> YAY!
[06:05] <arko> yea.. "yay"
[06:05] <Randomskk> sweet, love it when that happens
[06:05] <Randomskk> >_>
[06:05] <arko> more like "I OW HOW MUCH!?"
[06:05] <arko> owe*
[06:05] <Randomskk> your tax system is so weird
[06:05] <arko> dude it sucks
[06:05] <Randomskk> my income tax just gets taken out of my paycheque automatically
[06:05] <Randomskk> and the VAT I pay on things in shops is included on the price tag
[06:05] <Randomskk> and that's basically it
[06:06] <arko> yeah, eroomde was explaining when he was here
[06:06] <jarod> costyn freq?
[06:06] Action: arko books tickets to live in england
[06:07] <costyn> jarod: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/kUJdTQbarmI/XbqyPa1lzewJ
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[06:16] <costyn> arko: the weather really sucks most of the time though
[06:17] <arko> :/
[06:17] <arko> true
[06:22] <jarod> costyn cool :)
[06:23] <jarod> what mode?
[06:26] <costyn> jarod: RTTY
[06:26] <costyn> jarod: if you want to come watch, you're welcome
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[06:36] <jarod> nop rtty on sdrsharp ....
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[06:39] <x-f> jarod, you need dl-fldigi to decode HAB - route sound from sdrsharp to it and "it just works"
[06:40] <x-f> (replace HAB with RTTY)
[06:41] <costyn> :)
[06:41] <jarod> ok
[06:41] <jarod> so just need waterfall, ok
[06:41] <costyn> jarod: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[06:41] <costyn> jarod: (bottom part)
[06:41] <jarod> yap
[06:42] <jarod> hmm dl-fldigi is different from fldigi ?
[06:42] <costyn> yup
[06:43] <jarod> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi ... isee same site :)
[06:43] <Upu> morning all
[06:43] <costyn> jarod: yep
[06:44] <radim_OM2AMR> morning Upu, sun doesn't help yet
[06:44] <jarod> reception should be great here :)
[06:44] <Upu> Well tbh radim_OM2AMR if its still up there its probably over deepest russia now
[06:45] <costyn> jarod: where are you?
[06:45] <Upu> it was doing 110mph
[06:45] <jarod> Very North of Amsterdam
[06:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement - 2/3 March - Hyperion/Habanero from
[06:46] <costyn> ah ok
[06:47] <Upu> it be launching season
[06:47] <radim_OM2AMR> Upu, it could be so. Anyway yesterday was a great day :-)
[06:48] <Upu> glad you enjoyed it :) I'll put some RFM22B reset code in there next time
[06:50] <costyn> Upu: our questionable habamp is on it's way back to you. I posted it monday, should be there one of these days
[06:50] <Upu> ok I'll get that looked at costyn
[06:51] <costyn> Upu: thanks
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[06:52] <costyn> prediction looks nice, been stable since tuesday afternoon http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=1975e7be1a9ee2f5bd93aa4c875f34a5819024ca
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[06:58] <griffonbot> Received email: RG-lz1dev "[UKHAS] Re: Mobile Tracking webapp"
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[07:00] <arko> morning Upu
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[07:05] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/11449_trj001.gif
[07:06] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMN-zg7r3M
[07:06] <jcoxon> hooray
[07:06] <jcoxon> a balloon grand tour
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[08:10] <eroomde> mornen
[08:12] <arko> sup eroomde
[08:12] <nigelvh> Evening
[08:12] <eroomde> yo arko
[08:12] <nigelvh> Though I suppose technically it's morning now
[08:12] <eroomde> and nigelvh
[08:12] <eroomde> yeah
[08:12] <nigelvh> Just barely
[08:12] <eroomde> morning everywhere in the western world
[08:12] <Elwell> depends on TZ. Mid afternoon in western australia
[08:12] <eroomde> where west is an odd concept on a sphere
[08:13] <arko> i always wondered that
[08:13] <arko> so where is center?
[08:13] <eroomde> england
[08:13] <eroomde> at the top, in the middle
[08:13] <arko> psshhhhh
[08:13] <Elwell> grenwich
[08:13] <eroomde> obviously
[08:13] <Elwell> of course.
[08:13] <arko> heh
[08:13] <Elwell> just to by the reactor
[08:13] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CS1cUIxBVg
[08:13] <eroomde> first 30s
[08:13] <arko> man, i wish i could apply to work with Raffaello D'Andrea
[08:14] <Elwell> (which they have removed) -- wonder how many londoners knew there was a nuclear reactor in the city.
[08:14] <Elwell> http://www.ingenia.org.uk/ingenia/issues/issue10/Beeley.pdf
[08:15] <eroomde> as for what's up, car tax, credit card bills, and pcb design
[08:16] <arko> eroomde: 1/3 not bad
[08:16] <eroomde> yep
[08:16] <eroomde> other 2 a bit sucky
[08:16] <arko> i just found out i owe 6k in taxes today
[08:16] <eroomde> oh jesus
[08:16] <eroomde> that would kill me
[08:16] <arko> yeah....
[08:16] <arko> yeahhhhh
[08:16] <arko> im going tomorrow with all my papers to bring that down
[08:16] <eroomde> yeah
[08:16] <arko> if i can't, eu aint happening
[08:16] <arko> :(
[08:17] <arko> stupid taxes
[08:17] <nigelvh> You must have really had your W2's off.
[08:17] <eroomde> only 2 things are certain etc
[08:17] <arko> nigelvh: long story
[08:18] <arko> i like being told this news 1 day before going to SF
[08:18] <arko> eroomde: recommend food around there?
[08:18] <eroomde> YES
[08:18] <eroomde> everything
[08:18] <arko> oh good
[08:18] <arko> haha
[08:18] <eroomde> ferry building for artisan/hipster markets
[08:18] <arko> trying to get ahold of natrium42, maybe i can meet him
[08:18] <eroomde> the wine place, the cheese place, the bread place, the chocolate place
[08:18] <arko> cheese!
[08:18] <arko> duh!
[08:18] <arko> i forgot about that
[08:18] <eroomde> the cheese place is well good
[08:19] <arko> link?
[08:19] <arko> oh sweet
[08:20] <arko> right next to the BART station
[08:20] <arko> im staying in Berkeley
[08:20] <eroomde> do the american stuff but if they happen to have some 3 year aged Comte as they did when i was there, have some of that too because it will improve your life
[08:20] <arko> this should be perfect
[08:20] <eroomde> yes it's by embarkadero
[08:20] <arko> eroomde: Comte, noted
[08:20] <eroomde> end of market
[08:20] <arko> sweet
[08:20] <eroomde> Dotties for breakfast between market and mission on 6th
[08:20] <arko> i need to remember to bring my phone loaded with the full house theme
[08:20] <arko> ah!
[08:20] <eroomde> TARTINE for a croissant in mission (bart to 16th and mission then walk)
[08:21] <arko> i was thinking about breakfast
[08:21] <eroomde> if the weather is nice then there's a nice cafe/restaurant at the top of the moscone gardens
[08:21] <eroomde> near the conf centre
[08:21] <arko> dotties it is
[08:21] <eroomde> where you can eat outside and have nice things
[08:21] <arko> hmm
[08:22] <eroomde> just to the left of this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8447102762/in/set-72157632591417825
[08:22] <eroomde> there was a v nice but slightly spending vietnamese place in the ferry building too
[08:22] <arko> shiny
[08:22] <eroomde> spendy*
[08:22] <arko> ah
[08:22] <eroomde> called slatted door
[08:22] <eroomde> or slanted door
[08:22] <eroomde> or something describing a door
[08:22] <arko> haha
[08:23] <arko> im just going to copy and paste this and email it to myself
[08:23] <arko> i wont remember them very well
[08:23] <eroomde> well, dotties was the best breakfast i had there
[08:23] <eroomde> bit of a queue but it moves quickly and you will get a proper table
[08:24] <eroomde> if you're in berkely then there's another breakfast place called the alameda, iirc
[08:24] <eroomde> that has a breakfast plate called The Alameda
[08:24] <eroomde> which is also v good
[08:24] <eroomde> and if you can drive 5 minutes up the east bay, Jodies!
[08:24] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8462943758/in/set-72157632591417825
[08:24] <arko> oh that dude!
[08:25] <arko> i dig
[08:25] <arko> i like his attitude
[08:25] <arko> from what i've heard
[08:25] <eroomde> yep
[08:25] <eroomde> it's v east to eat v well, basically
[08:26] <arko> we have a car ;D
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[08:26] <eroomde> jodies is cool then
[08:27] <eroomde> i am jel
[08:27] <eroomde> i might be less so if the weather here wasn't so miserable
[08:27] <eroomde> it's been unusually grey
[08:27] <eroomde> the last week
[08:28] <fsphil> it's spreading. we had an unusual sunny week recently. now grey
[08:28] <arko> aww
[08:29] <arko> yeah, the weather here has been perfect for that past few weeks
[08:29] <arko> but i hear its getting hot soon
[08:29] <arko> ugg
[08:29] <eroomde> i would be happier at work if there was some blue
[08:29] <eroomde> the grey is a damp cold
[08:29] <arko> :/
[08:29] <eroomde> makes going outside for a wee not the pleasurable thing it should be
[08:29] <fsphil> tis try though, makes a change. and there's even some daylight now after I get home from work
[08:29] <arko> maybe i dont want to go to uk fo school afterall :P
[08:29] <eroomde> cambridge is dryer
[08:29] <eroomde> s'ok
[08:29] <fsphil> try/dry
[08:29] <arko> eees ok
[08:30] <arko> oh snap, it doesnt get that got
[08:30] <arko> hot*
[08:30] <arko> sweet
[08:30] <arko> just sat/sun
[08:30] <arko> which is fine
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[08:37] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zAIPL5O9Uwk
[08:38] <arko> time to sleep
[08:38] <arko> hopefully tomorrow is a better day
[08:38] <arko> night y'all
[08:39] <eroomde> cya
[08:39] <fsphil> nite
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[10:13] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: 3G Equipped RPi PIE4 streamed its own recovery live http://t.co/p9WAsXg4Q4 #ukhas #ukhas @Raspberry_Pi @daveake [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/307071056550690816]
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[11:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Nicole Blake "[UKHAS] CAA application"
[11:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Andrew Myatt "Re: [UKHAS] CAA application"
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[12:38] <costyn> HixWork: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=1566654415b5a91de59df16d3d10547e26b3bd34 prediction is moving closer to Venlo ;)
[12:39] <fsphil> not a bad prediction, although you've got quite a few big towns/cities there
[12:40] <costyn> fsphil: it's been north of Eindhoven for quite a while
[12:40] <costyn> fsphil: I think we'll beok
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[12:41] <costyn> fsphil: I'm already happy it's not going north or west :)
[12:42] <fsphil> yes. unless it went north west, you could land it in cambridge :)
[12:42] <costyn> heh
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[12:44] <g7ogxchris> any news abt AVA?
[12:44] <fsphil> nothing
[12:45] <g7ogxchris> shame..someone will find it eventually
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[12:51] <fsphil> the last two balloons to float that way have never been seen since
[12:53] <costyn> yea
[12:53] <costyn> shame... 1st we lost because we had no contact with East European hams, second one becuase payload crash/battery issues/who knows
[12:54] <fsphil> pretty sure the temperature caused the rfm22b to stop working
[12:54] <fsphil> difference between ava and storm was the gps failed in storm before the radio
[12:55] <costyn> heh
[12:55] <fsphil> I'm gonna add some heaters to it
[12:55] <costyn> fsphil: you doing a floater too?
[12:56] <fsphil> yea, going to do a storm 2
[12:56] <mattbrejza> or use a NTX2 and lassen :P
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[13:04] <craag> I've tested my rfm22 in -18 and it wasn't an issue, I guess ava got a lot colder.
[13:05] <mattbrejza> tbh on the rfm every few mins could you tx 100mW on 869 to heat it up? :P
[13:06] <HixWork> costyn, that has to be worth a lot of HAB points if it does :)
[13:07] <craag> The freezer test was at 10mw.
[13:07] <craag> Running 100mw the rfm was reporting a temp of +5.
[13:09] <mattbrejza> i think youre probably just best with a ntx2
[13:09] <fsphil> mattbrejza: jcoxon programmed one of his to go to 100mw outside the uk -- it failed seconds later :)
[13:09] <mattbrejza> the rfms offen die in the cold?
[13:09] <mattbrejza> oh maybe not then
[13:09] <fsphil> my floater died when it got to about -40c
[13:10] <mattbrejza> has a ntx2 ever died that we know of?
[13:10] <fsphil> don't believe so
[13:10] <jonsowman> apart from the one i murdered >:|
[13:11] <mattbrejza> looks like a solution then :P
[13:11] <fsphil> rfm22b can be programmed to do 25mw outside uk though
[13:11] <HixWork> i was thinking of filling the NTX2 with cotton wool and then sealing it with kapton tape, what say ye?
[13:11] <fsphil> NigelMoby tried covering the crystal with glue
[13:11] <jonsowman> i wonder how wombat would do
[13:12] <mattbrejza> or picotex
[13:12] <NigelMoby> glue helps
[13:12] <HixWork> what hot glues fsphil
[13:12] <HixWork> obviously it cools :)
[13:12] <jonsowman> lol
[13:12] <NigelMoby> hot glue over the xtal kept it rock solid stable.
[13:12] <fsphil> I think just keep the payload sealed, and with as little open space as possible
[13:12] <jonsowman> attach a glue gun, sealed lead acid, and inverter
[13:12] <jonsowman> that'll keep it hot
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[13:13] <HixWork> on a serious note, the zippo handwarmer uses some kind of rockwool as a a=catalyst and it's helllishly effective
[13:13] <HixWork> could be worth looking at a similar system
[13:14] <NigelMoby> if u feel experimental a small heat pipe from the Ntx2 vreg to the xtal might help...
[13:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] CAA application"
[13:41] <HixWork> i can't get tjhe stream here but the concept of 15 yrs from an AA seems unlikely but interesting http://goo.gl/wDkkf
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[14:16] <fsphil> RocketBoy: do you know if the 1600g hwoyees will be back in the next few weeks?
[14:20] <mattbrejza> just fly two 800g
[14:20] <mattbrejza> totally legit
[14:21] <HixWork> what sort of vol would you fill that to fsphil for a float attempt?
[14:21] <mattbrejza> well ascent rate of < 3m/s with a light payload is the general 'rule'
[14:21] <fsphil> yea, I'd just aim for an ascent rate of 2m/s
[14:24] <RocketBoy> fsphil: They should be
[14:24] <HixWork> what's the reason for such large balloons for floats then? could you not underfill a smaller balloon?
[14:24] <RocketBoy> hav'nt got an exact date - deends on customs etc.
[14:24] <RocketBoy> but about 2 weeks
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[14:25] <mattbrejza> btw RocketBoy in what way were the predictions this week off?
[14:25] <fsphil> thanks RocketBoy
[14:25] <mattbrejza> were the winds different speeds than expected or were the descent rates unexpected?
[14:26] <fsphil> smaller balloons need to be filled a bit more relative to their size HixWork, pushes them closer to their burst limit
[14:26] <fsphil> that's my understanding of it anyway
[14:26] <fsphil> though it has been done
[14:26] <RocketBoy> mattbrejza: the predicted landing spot (both from the stand alone predictor and the initial tracker) where out by about 5km to actual
[14:27] <RocketBoy> not 5km 20km off
[14:27] <fsphil> iirc the old pin-hole floaters where all 1000g balloons
[14:27] <RocketBoy> as per eail
[14:27] <RocketBoy> email
[14:27] <mattbrejza> did it get 'knocked' sideways or just go more downwind?
[14:28] <mattbrejza> yea i saw the email i was just wondering were the inaccuracy came from
[14:28] <RocketBoy> well the fligt was zig-zag - but about 20Km short of predicted
[14:28] <HixWork> ah right ok fsphil
[14:28] <RocketBoy> prediced was north of bicester and actual was milton keynes
[14:28] <fsphil> they stayed really close. I really did think it was a single balloon
[14:29] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[14:29] <RocketBoy> yeah - I thouth they had tangled once they hag gone into the clouds
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[14:30] <mattbrejza> our prediction is looking good but if its out by 20km south its going to get wet
[14:30] <mattbrejza> but 20km short or long is fine
[14:30] <RocketBoy> I was thinking up all sorts of disater scenarios of being tangled - and then one balloon bursting and a virtual float
[14:30] <mattbrejza> the footage must be good though
[14:30] <RocketBoy> it is
[14:31] <fsphil> there better be a whale and a bowl of petunias in there :p
[14:31] <RocketBoy> it would be nice to run retrospective predictions - and plug in the actual numbers to see how far out they were
[14:31] <HixWork> RocketBoy, any chance of getting a peek of stills from the landing in Whychwood last week or are they commercially tied in a.t.m?
[14:32] <RocketBoy> na - only the shot I have already linked to
[14:32] <RocketBoy> on flickr
[14:32] <mattbrejza> dont suppose you have the intial prediction saved anywhere?
[14:32] <RocketBoy> na
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[14:33] <mattbrejza> what we need (im not offering my services) is after balloons get to 2km is to run a range of predictions and save them for that launch
[14:33] <HixWork> I'll have to check that out at home as flickr banned here
[14:33] <mattbrejza> then we will have a range of predictions and the actual flight
[14:33] <fsphil> what's the flickr link?
[14:34] <RocketBoy> but irc gets through the firewall :-)
[14:34] <RocketBoy> one mo
[14:34] <fsphil> last one I see is 41 landing
[14:34] <HixWork> RocketBoy, tell me about it
[14:34] <RocketBoy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/
[14:35] <RocketBoy> one at the top XABEN41lands
[14:35] <mfa298> HixWork: sounds like you need to get a cheap vps and then as long as you can get ssh out you should be able to bypass any restrictions
[14:35] <mattbrejza> 'Blue Army - XABEN payload boxes - purging pink from the skys' lol
[14:36] <RocketBoy> :-)
[14:36] <RocketBoy> well something needs to
[14:36] <HixWork> remembered that i can just rdc into server and browse fgrom that, though with a helishly slow refres rate
[14:36] <fsphil> aah, I thought there was a pic from X42+X43
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[14:36] <RocketBoy> nope - only footage
[14:37] <mattbrejza> the kitkat ad been released yet?
[14:37] <RocketBoy> and thats hld back for a couple
[14:37] <fsphil> RocketBoy: have you seen much in the way of cosmic rays (spots and streaks) in your gopro videos?
[14:37] <RocketBoy> kitkat - yeah
[14:38] <RocketBoy> nope - never seen any
[14:38] <fsphil> I found what seems to be quite a lot in one of mine
[14:38] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hab/20130109-bbcsb-clip3.mp4 (30mb-ish)
[14:38] <RocketBoy> really - I'll be looking now
[14:39] <fsphil> they come and go, there's none near the apex
[14:39] <fsphil> that's only a 10 second clip
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[14:41] <RocketBoy> interesting - maybe upward facing camera
[14:41] <RocketBoy> pick them up better
[14:41] <fsphil> yea, I've not checked the other cameras yet
[14:41] <RocketBoy> I'll look at my older footage
[14:41] <RocketBoy> what altitude was that?
[14:42] <fsphil> it would have been roughtly 10km
[14:42] <fsphil> there's none at launch, and none near the top (20km, short flight)
[14:42] <RocketBoy> was that recent?
[14:43] <fsphil> january
[14:43] <UpuWork> interesting
[14:43] <UpuWork> was the sun particularly active then ?
[14:43] <fsphil> I checked but couldn't find a chart. there's no mention of major flares around that time
[14:44] <fsphil> in saying that, http://www.solen.info/solar/
[14:45] <fsphil> there's a big peak near the 9th
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[14:47] <x-f> Kp index - http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/images/plot_ace.png
[14:49] <fsphil> nothing unusual on that
[14:49] <x-f> we need more data, but this is interesting
[14:50] <mattbrejza> more likely on an upwards facing camera?
[14:50] <mattbrejza> the gopro has a decent amount of metal heatsink in it
[14:51] <mattbrejza> (radiation shielding)?
[14:51] <fsphil> I'll check the side camera when I get home, though it didn't last all the way to burst
[14:53] <RocketBoy> most of my up footage is on an offline disk - I'll look later
[14:53] <RocketBoy> very interesting though
[14:54] <RocketBoy> cool even :-)
[14:57] <fsphil> it is -- I only noticed it a few days ago
[14:58] <HixWork> I'm going to set up a socks proxy so they can stick their filtering of such silly urls
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[15:01] <eroomde> nick_ is going to fly a particle detector soon, i wonder if we could correlate with video
[15:05] <RocketBoy> perhaps an upward camera painted black lens
[15:10] <mattbrejza> would you want the sensor to be high sensitivity
[15:10] <mattbrejza> or would you have trouble telling noise from particles?
[15:12] <eroomde> RocketBoy: lens cap?
[15:12] <costyn> how much room should I leave between 2 payloasd under 1 balloon?
[15:13] <eroomde> a bit more reversible :)
[15:13] <eroomde> mattbrejza: i suspect you would have some trouble
[15:13] <eroomde> people have certainly flwon rolls of 35mm film in the can
[15:13] <eroomde> then developed it
[15:13] <eroomde> and seen white spots
[15:14] <mattbrejza> we did something similar with something photosensitive, i think we got something but I havnt seen the images
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[15:28] <fsphil> I will have to repeat it. I have a small balloon that should manage 20km fine
[15:28] <fsphil> I wouldn't want to go much higher with such an expensive camera
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[15:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah. dropping from over 20km can break things.
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[15:35] <fsphil> not so much the dropping, as the getting wet
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[15:37] <fsphil> it's basically a lake surrounded by a bit of land surrounded by an ocean :)
[15:37] <x-f> need more cutdowns!
[15:37] <fsphil> only exception to the south
[15:38] <eroomde> yus
[15:38] <eroomde> cutdowns are a good thing
[15:39] <fsphil> I needa stop being lazy and make one
[15:42] <eroomde> the kaboom type
[15:44] <eroomde> speaking of which, the parafoila rrived today
[15:44] <eroomde> along with a book on optimal control theory
[15:44] <eroomde> co-incidence?
[15:44] <jonsowman> we're doing the classical optimal control part of F3 now
[15:44] <jonsowman> soo much linear algebra
[15:44] <eroomde> death by
[15:45] <jonsowman> yes
[15:45] <jonsowman> riccati equations
[15:45] <eroomde> but death holds new fear with the promise of mathematical englisghenment
[15:45] <jonsowman> matrix ODEs. i mean, seriously
[15:45] <eroomde> no fear*
[15:46] <eroomde> well i don't know what your course is like now
[15:46] <eroomde> but this book might be a good purchase
[15:46] <eroomde> as i think it is written with english aswell as maths and is more approachable by mortals
[15:46] <Randomskk> I finally finished the second machine learning coursework at like 0720 today
[15:46] <Randomskk> ugh
[15:46] <eroomde> wehereas i remember optimal control at camb to be about the biggest mind f*ck i ever took
[15:47] <eroomde> with this very bright young researcher lecturing in a thick accent as if it was all obvious
[15:47] <jonsowman> no booklist in the notes
[15:47] <jonsowman> :(
[15:47] <eroomde> who is the lecturer?
[15:47] <jonsowman> glover for this part
[15:47] <eroomde> oh wow, he's lecturing again
[15:47] <eroomde> he is a beast
[15:47] <jonsowman> the predcitive control bit was Ed Hartley
[15:47] <eroomde> he was head of department
[15:48] <eroomde> but i don't think he ever lecturered
[15:48] <eroomde> ed....
[15:48] <eroomde> the chap who talks into his feet but phrases his words quite carefully and with pristine ennunciation?
[15:48] <jonsowman> yes that sounds about right
[15:48] <jonsowman> he says 'so' at the beginning of every sentence
[15:49] <eroomde> i think he must have done the MIT exchange
[15:49] <eroomde> everyone at MIT does that
[15:49] <eroomde> they all say 'so,...' and start from fundamentals
[15:49] <eroomde> 'hey, where'd the loo?''so, you gotta dispose of waste, right?'
[15:49] <jonsowman> haha
[15:49] <jonsowman> very true
[15:50] <eroomde> what's glover like as a lecturer?
[15:51] <jonsowman> very good actually
[15:52] <jonsowman> his notes are printed on amaing quality paper and in colour
[15:52] <jonsowman> which is new
[15:52] <eroomde> he basically is Optimum Control
[15:52] <eroomde> in human form
[15:52] <eroomde> from what i understand
[15:53] <eroomde> or rather, it was him who came up with H-infinity loop shaping
[15:53] <Randomskk> yea
[15:53] <eroomde> which is quite a thing to have come up wth
[15:53] <Randomskk> indeed
[15:53] <Randomskk> we did H-infinity in f2, robost control
[15:53] <Randomskk> robust*
[15:53] <Randomskk> good stuff
[15:53] <eroomde> i am confused as to how they've split up and reshuffled the control modules now
[15:53] <jonsowman> he is good at teaching despite being insanely clever
[15:54] <jonsowman> which is a rare quality
[15:54] <Randomskk> would have liked to have been lectured by him
[15:54] <Randomskk> eroomde: 4f1 is basically all the advanced classical stuff, by mc smith
[15:54] <eroomde> yes, i think that's untouched from when i did it
[15:54] <Randomskk> f2 is robust by smith and nonlinear by that guy
[15:54] <eroomde> given someone wanted to borrow my coursework
[15:54] <Randomskk> f3 is optimal and predictive
[15:54] <eroomde> ah ok
[15:55] <Randomskk> god, the f1 coursework gives me nightmares
[15:55] <jonsowman> f2 is half Smith and half Maciejowski
[15:55] <eroomde> so it used to be non-linear and predictive 4f3
[15:55] <eroomde> and robust and optimal 4f2
[15:55] <Randomskk> lol that's silly
[15:55] <Randomskk> realised my control system was not internally stable 20 minutes before hand in, shit.
[15:55] <eroomde> algebraically cancelling a physical pole or zero?
[15:56] <eroomde> well, pole
[15:56] <Randomskk> something like that yea
[15:56] <eroomde> that old chestnut
[15:56] <jonsowman> probably
[15:56] <Randomskk> don't think it was quite a direct cancellation actually
[15:56] <Randomskk> I forgot
[15:56] <Randomskk> one of the internal transfer functions was unstable anyway
[15:56] <eroomde> from the people that brough you the M9.5 machine screw
[15:56] <jonsowman> one of the 4 TFs is unstable
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[16:19] <griffonbot> @stratodean: Thanks @GSK for helping us listen to near space! http://t.co/NgeNMWxwW7 #totalprotectionforteethanddongles #upcycle #ukhas [http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/307163146848698369]
[16:19] <radim_OM2AMR> near collision with weather balloon http://avherald.com/h?article=45e731b0&opt=0
[16:22] <eroomde> intresting
[16:22] <eroomde> 10-15m from the wing tip
[16:22] <eroomde> that's gotta keep you alert
[16:23] <eroomde> jonsowman: is there a course on PDEs and if so do you have access to its notes?
[16:23] <jonsowman> yeah I'm doing it, 4M12. PDEs & variational methods
[16:24] <HixWork> e-ink for android phones? http://goo.gl/81p3q
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[16:25] <fsphil> I still want a pixel qi laptop
[16:25] <eroomde> I need some more PDEs to make sense of the HJB in my BOOK on OCT
[16:25] <eroomde> Do you see?
[16:26] <jonsowman> haha
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[16:26] <jonsowman> the notes for the PDEs part are photocopies of the OHP transparencies
[16:26] <jonsowman> :|
[16:27] <eroomde> nice
[16:27] <eroomde> well, there's a section on PDEs and variational methods in this book actually
[16:27] <eroomde> might serve to refresh me
[16:29] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, yikes
[16:30] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f, what ? Did you obtain permission ?
[16:31] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, that was my reaction to the link you posted
[16:32] <x-f> no progress on that front, have meeting with them on Tuesday
[16:32] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f :-) oh yes :-) I'm thinking about your troubles still. I hope you will be successful next week
[16:32] <HixWork> fond this online course, looks like a pretty comprehensive introduction to C http://cs50.tv/2011/fall/
[16:33] <eroomde> learn C the hard way is also good
[16:33] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, thanks :)
[16:35] <HixWork> yes been going through that eroomde, though I've not gone past the section on makefiles as yet
[16:36] <fsphil> you never stop learning C
[16:36] <HixWork> I was thinking of creating a resource n the wiki for such things. to act as a good point of refernce, good idea?
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[16:37] <eroomde> yes
[16:37] <HixWork> I shall make it so
[16:37] <eroomde> learning to program is A Big Thing for a lot of new habbers, and it's an awesome way in
[16:37] <HixWork> I could do with a bookmark massacre, they're getting a bit out of control of late
[16:37] <HixWork> a central C hub sounds like a better plan
[16:38] <HixWork> and everyone can contribute to it
[16:39] <HixWork> suppose Arduino and C would be better for newbies, C alone would probably scare people off
[16:40] <nick_> Digital cameras should not really be sensitive to cosmics, I think.
[16:40] <mfa298> "learn c the hard way" does that mean there's an easy way to learn c ?
[16:41] <eroomde> it's more in response to the 'learn c in 24 hours!!1!1' bs
[16:42] <HixWork> that'd need to be a efking long 24 hours :)
[16:42] <nick_> Tim O'Reilly
[16:42] <nick_> Founder, O'Reilly Media
[16:42] <nick_> Programming is how we talk to the machines that are increasingly woven into our lives. If you aren't a programmer, you're like one of the unlettered people of the Middle Ages who were told what to think by the literate priesthood. We had a Renaissance when more people could read and write; we'll have another one when everyone programs.
[16:43] <nick_> I liked that quote when I read it earlier.
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[16:43] <mfa298> you mean there's more to learn that "hello world" :p
[16:43] <nick_> There was a better one, but I didn't know the guy who said it.
[16:44] <nick_> (The better one was saying that at some point people had to decide to read or do a crappy job, now they have to decide to program or do a crappy job)
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[16:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just got round to doing the AVA object movies HTML5 http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/AVA/output/ava_1.html and Flash http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/AVA/output/ava.html had been hoping it might have re-appeared!
[17:03] <NigeyS> looks good geoff
[17:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Cosmic rays and cameras ? http://aer.aas.org/resource/1/aerscz/v9/i1/p010111_s1?view=fulltext can be a problem!
[17:07] <nick_> I think it's mostly not an issue because the sensor is small.
[17:07] <nick_> So you very rarely get a hit.
[17:08] <nick_> Of course at altitude that rate goes up quite a bit.
[17:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Might be interesting at the greater heights, where the shower will be more engertic than lower down, but I don't think it will be vast problem, most rays will pass thru at right angles and only affect 1 or 2 pixels in most cases
[17:09] <nick_> Well, the energy of the particles basically doesn't matter.
[17:10] <fsphil> my video had less spots and streaks higher up
[17:10] <nick_> (and indeed, I don't think the energy changes a whole lot with altitude, until you get really high)
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[17:11] <nick_> Primary cosmic rays can get pretty energetic, but once they start to shower in the atmosphere they just make more secondaries if they are more energetic.,
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[17:12] <nick_> Ah, the PDG implies I'm wrong
[17:12] <nick_> At HAB altitiudes you get lots of protons
[17:12] <nick_> (I think, they really plot protons + neutrons)
[17:13] <fsphil> I'll get the extact altitude later
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[17:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> I would imagine there is a cross-over between count of electrons released in the sensor due to energy as opposed to count of electrons due to larger shower at lower heights ?
[17:17] <nick_> Well, if there are more cosmics (larger shower) you just get more hits.
[17:18] <nick_> The muons are probably minimally ionising, so their signal won't change much with their energy.
[17:18] <nick_> The protons might though.
[17:20] <eroomde> /window 18
[17:20] <eroomde> fail
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[17:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/new-crossrail-images-show-london-tunnelling-marathon-underway-beneath-the-capital
[17:49] <gartt> Quite an operation
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[17:50] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[17:51] <eroomde> this parafoil is quite big in person
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[17:53] <Laurenceb> how are you going to control it?
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[17:54] <eroomde> with science
[17:55] <eroomde> and moderately beefy servos
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[17:55] <Laurenceb> two servos?
[17:56] <Laurenceb> one for each wingtip?
[17:56] <eroomde> suspect so as then can get mean aoa or braking
[17:56] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:56] <Laurenceb> parafoils seem to want to spin real bad
[17:56] <Laurenceb> it looks harder than rogallo
[17:57] <Laurenceb> maybe some kind of tail on the back would help, but it would add drag
[17:58] <Laurenceb> another problem, its going to fly slow unless you make it rather heavy
[17:58] <Laurenceb> same issues with rogallo, but you can make rogallos nice and small
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[17:58] <eroomde> all very true
[17:58] <Laurenceb> something i did on the rogallo
[17:58] <Laurenceb> record wind during ascent
[17:59] <eroomde> i'll just have to see what i can do within the mass constraints
[17:59] <Laurenceb> then, on the descent, you integrate up to the current altitude, simulating a chute with the same decent rate
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[17:59] <Laurenceb> so integrate drift from the target
[17:59] <Laurenceb> then aim for the resulting position
[18:00] <Laurenceb> that gives you optimal course through the wind
[18:00] <Laurenceb> i crunched a ton of flight data, and 120m vertical layers worked best
[18:00] <eroomde> yes, the wind estimate for trajectory planning was going to use the winds on the way up as a prior
[18:01] <Laurenceb> seemed to work well enough in my sims based on past flights
[18:01] <Laurenceb> and just stored as int8_t in eeprom on a mega168p
[18:01] <Laurenceb> i made my flight computer resistance to reboots
[18:01] <Laurenceb> but my cord wasnt resistant to deknotting
[18:01] <eroomde> stored what as a byte?
[18:02] <eroomde> a byte each for speed and bearing?
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[18:04] <nick_> eroomde: do you ever think that you and mr Bayes are in a one way bromance?
[18:04] <eroomde> it's The Korrect Way to think about things
[18:05] <Laurenceb> almost
[18:05] <Laurenceb> north and east as meters per second
[18:05] <Laurenceb> so 2 bytes per 120m layer
[18:05] <eroomde> sure, so just a different coordinate system
[18:05] <Laurenceb> i used median gps velocity for that layer
[18:05] <eroomde> i would do u + v like that anyway
[18:05] <eroomde> easier on the microcontroller
[18:06] <Laurenceb> also for control i used a low offset melexis gyro and gps
[18:06] <Laurenceb> then corrected the gps bearing for wind
[18:06] <Laurenceb> nowadays you'd use a 9dof imu
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[18:06] <Laurenceb> with something cheap and cheerful like the diydrones code
[18:06] <Laurenceb> i put gps and gyro into a simple EKF
[18:07] <Laurenceb> but diydrones complimentary filter looks good
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[18:07] <eroomde> i've not looked at it
[18:08] <Laurenceb> its really simple, but works quite well
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[18:08] <Laurenceb> runs at like 500hz with float on mega168p or something stupid
[18:08] <eroomde> not bad
[18:08] <Laurenceb> stores attitude as a rotation matrix then tweaks the matrix elements and occasionally renormalizes it and stuff
[18:09] <Laurenceb> the sensor calibration code would add a bit to that
[18:09] <eroomde> i'd do quaternion + some flavour of KF
[18:09] <Laurenceb> diydrones does gyro bias tho
[18:09] <eroomde> only needs to run at 20Hz + can do it on a beefier micro
[18:09] <Laurenceb> yeah im sure you could do a similar model with quaternions
[18:10] <Laurenceb> for reference the rogallo was doing 7.5m horizontal and 2.3m vertical at ~sea level
[18:10] <Laurenceb> at 12Km it was about 16m/s horizontal and about same lift/drag
[18:11] <Laurenceb> i'd say you need those sorts of speeds to counter the wind reliably
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[18:11] <eroomde> i'm not sure what they airspeed of this parafoil will be with ~1.5kg payload
[18:11] <eroomde> i shall measure it
[18:11] <Laurenceb> yeah
[18:11] <Laurenceb> i did a sh*ton of tests launch rogallos down a hill
[18:11] <Laurenceb> +ing
[18:11] <eroomde> the new 10Hz ublox 7s will make a welcome appearence here
[18:12] <Laurenceb> heh
[18:14] <Laurenceb> at one point i made a nutty 3m wingspan rogallo with concrete block payload
[18:14] <Laurenceb> the servos didnt have enough control authority and it left a triangular hole in a hedge...
[18:15] <eroomde> i'm surprised
[18:24] <Laurenceb> you missed out the /s
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[18:27] <jcoxon> is spacenear.us down?
[18:27] <fsphil> ok here
[18:27] <jcoxon> oh there is is
[18:27] <jcoxon> slow to load
[18:27] <fsphil> a bit slow loading, there's four flights on there
[18:27] <NigeyS> slow here to
[18:27] <fsphil> which can be cleared now I suppose
[18:27] <NigeyS> evening jcoxon
[18:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, might get this pico all the way to you
[18:28] <fsphil> haha, AVA 25821 points
[18:28] <fsphil> when's it up jcoxon?
[18:28] <jcoxon> fsphil, saturday PM
[18:28] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[18:28] <fsphil> good, should be free all sunday
[18:29] <NigeyS> hey, how's things looking for saturday then, hardware all sorted ?
[18:29] <daveake> give me 10 mins for screenshots before spacenear is cleared please?
[18:29] <jcoxon> yeah most is done
[18:29] <jcoxon> just need to do some tests
[18:30] <NigeyS> awsome, any idea on weight yet ?
[18:30] <fsphil> I've cleared all but the last days flights daveake
[18:32] <fsphil> still holding out some hope of ava being detected :)
[18:37] <jcoxon> NigeyS, it'll be 33g or so
[18:38] <NigeyS> oh excellent, 1 balloon then i take it
[18:38] <daveake> I'm done :)
[18:39] <jcoxon> NigeyS, yeah, not sure its really worth doing 2
[18:39] <daveake> Just done a calculation based on the last airborne position of PIE4, and the landing spot
[18:39] <daveake> I reckon it was 37 metres above the ground when it was over the power line
[18:39] <fsphil> I wonder where ava would be if it kept that speed
[18:39] <fsphil> ooooh
[18:39] <fsphil> now that was close
[18:39] <daveake> Apparently pylines are normally "15 to 55m" ....
[18:40] <daveake> pylons
[18:40] <daveake> God job it was between pylons where the line droops
[18:40] <daveake> I think it was that close ...
[18:40] <fsphil> yea almost exactly
[18:40] <NigeyS> jcoxon, with that kind of weight i think it's pretty safe on 1, if i can get away with 1 for microchu i will use 1
[18:40] <Upu> evening
[18:40] <NigeyS> evening upu
[18:41] <Upu> can delete mine I have screen shots
[18:41] <jcoxon> NigeyS, i think you are a lot more likely to get float with 1 balloon
[18:41] <NigeyS> agreed
[18:41] <fsphil> yea
[18:41] <domlin> what happened to AVA
[18:41] <domlin> ?
[18:41] <fsphil> unless that shared pressure thing can be worked out
[18:41] <Upu> got cold I suspect domlin radio gave up
[18:41] <NigeyS> the tube ?
[18:41] <fsphil> yea
[18:41] <domlin> ahh fair enough! went bloody far
[18:41] <NigeyS> was thinking about that
[18:42] <Upu> still loling at PIE managing to follow the M4 perfectly :)
[18:42] <NigeyS> you cant really do that and get a perfect seal on the valves
[18:42] <NigeyS> so there may be inherent leakage
[18:42] <Upu> it probably went much further however we'll neve rknow
[18:42] <daveake> I wonder if it hit the line with the payload under
[18:42] <fsphil> easier to make a larger foil maybe
[18:42] <daveake> suppose not it would have dropped earlier
[18:42] <jcoxon> NigeyS, fsphil http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/18849_trj001.gif
[18:42] <NigeyS> oo james that is a nice track
[18:42] <fsphil> we need some stations in scotland
[18:43] <NigeyS> at 4k i should easily be able to track that
[18:43] <fsphil> I've got a clear view to the east from the nearby mountain
[18:43] <jcoxon> its going to be quite a slow flight
[18:43] <jcoxon> it'll hit wales at midnight on sunday
[18:43] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get one of those easy caps
[18:43] <jcoxon> and then accelerates
[18:43] <NigeyS> ive got a nice clear view north west and the bristol channel.. might even put the yagi on the washing line for it
[18:44] <fsphil> sunday morning?
[18:44] Action: NigeyS buys extra coffee and batteries for the radio
[18:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, ?
[18:44] <jonsowman> NigeyS: your radio runs on coffee?
[18:45] <fsphil> reaching cardiff sunday morning?
[18:45] <NigeyS> haha yup !
[18:45] <jcoxon> nah i think later
[18:45] <NigeyS> jonsowman, radio = coffee, operator = batteries!
[18:45] <jonsowman> :)
[18:45] <jcoxon> looking at the hysplit
[18:46] <jcoxon> so we launch at 1500 on saturday
[18:46] <fsphil> oh see that, a day to wales
[18:46] <fsphil> that really is slow
[18:46] <fsphil> so it'll pass me on monday
[18:46] <jcoxon> eek
[18:46] <mfa298> looks like a good tour of the UK
[18:46] <jcoxon> well no hurry then :-p
[18:47] <fsphil> I'll be at work but I'll have remote control
[18:47] <fsphil> just means I can't get out the yagis
[18:47] <NigeyS> bring the wellies james!
[18:47] <fsphil> another reason to get a rotator
[18:48] <jcoxon> there isn't much difference between 3000m and 4500m
[18:51] <jcoxon> just need the damn thing to actually float
[18:51] <costyn> any other Mac os x users of dl-fldigi here atm?
[18:52] <costyn> Randomskk: ping
[18:52] <Randomskk> hi
[18:52] <costyn> Randomskk: I can't browse any flights in the main screen
[18:53] <costyn> I've downloaded the latest version twice already :)
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[18:53] <costyn> tried clicking on refresh payloads
[18:53] <Randomskk> wfm
[18:54] <Randomskk> wht URL do you have in the habitat field on the enable tab
[18:55] <costyn> http://habitat.habhub.org
[18:55] <Randomskk> do you see payloads in the all payloads tab?
[18:55] <costyn> do I need to fill in my nick to be able to download stuff?
[18:55] <Randomskk> no
[18:55] <Randomskk> shouldn't do
[18:56] <Randomskk> though who knows, maybe
[18:56] <Randomskk> you should probably have a callsign
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[18:56] <costyn> well I keep it out to not upload bogus test data to the tracker
[18:56] <Randomskk> dinner time
[18:56] <Randomskk> that might be impacting, idk
[18:56] <Randomskk> see if you can get any errors
[18:56] <costyn> Randomskk: well that fixed it
[18:56] <costyn> Randomskk: flights are now listed
[18:57] <costyn> as well as updated payloads
[19:00] <fsphil> interesting
[19:00] <fsphil> shouldn't really require a callsign that
[19:00] <costyn> apparently it does
[19:02] <jcoxon> i think its to stop people never putting them in
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[19:02] <jcoxon> as we had problems in hte early days
[19:02] <costyn> ah
[19:03] <costyn> well now there's a test payload on the map :)
[19:03] <costyn> maybe test payloads can time-out on the map wihtin 15 minutes of the last packet received, if the telemetry is not within the approved flight window
[19:04] <fsphil> I'd like http://spacenear.us/test/
[19:04] <fsphil> with /tracker/ only being approved flights
[19:05] <costyn> fsphil: even better
[19:05] <fsphil> or even just a tickbox I suppose
[19:05] <fsphil> default to only authorised
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[19:09] <costyn> well good I guess that I tested [2013-02-28 19:08:32,662] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: Incorrect number of fields (got 10, expect 9)
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[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> payload tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56BkA-E-_k
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[19:42] <nigelvh> What's the deal with the wires in the payload box?
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[19:43] <eroomde> they hold the circuit board
[19:43] <nigelvh> I'd be nervous about that.
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[19:45] <eroomde> so long as they're tight and isolated from any of the electronics i think you'll be ok.
[19:45] <nigelvh> Unless you're really careful about it, I'd be nervous about having metal wires hanging around inside the payload to potentially short things out.
[19:45] <costyn> drifing through the snow, like a rfm22b in a freezer... geez
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, cool video. Payload is looking good!
[19:48] <nigelvh> Anyway, like I said, it just makes me nervous, but otherwise things are looking pretty good.
[19:49] <fsphil> is the antenna soldered into that socket?
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:53] <griffonbot> @NigeyUK: MicroChu and Nocturn getting some code updates before freezer testing. #ukhas http://t.co/NJtRFP4Zyi [http://twitter.com/NigeyUK/status/307216914155991040]
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> OK, sorry
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> you were asking about the structure wires?
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> the horizontal ones are covered by heat shrink
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, how do you mean exactly?
[19:55] <fsphil> the antenna wires seem to be going into a bnc socket
[19:55] <fsphil> are they soldered
[19:56] <fsphil> ?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> the GND wire is soldered to the outer mantle and the TX wire to the center
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. to the yellow wire
[19:58] <fsphil> I worry about antennas like that. the wires being so thin they might get bent by the wind
[19:59] <fsphil> might be worth putting a bit of straw over it to make it sturdier
[19:59] <eroomde> agreed
[19:59] <eroomde> wind and bumping into your hand on launch
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> OK, so straws like other people have used them?
[20:00] <eroomde> yes
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> that is no problem
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> and as for the vertical wires
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> I looked out that there are no solder connections on the corners
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[20:03] <costyn> I think I need some assistance... my rfm seems on the fritz http://i.imgur.com/Cu19vUG.png
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[20:03] <costyn> it just keeps going normal, and then POW, garbage
[20:03] <costyn> the signal looks very fuzzy on the waterfall
[20:04] <costyn> jcoxon: I noticed you had some RFM reset stuff in your loop() on atlas?
[20:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:04] <jcoxon> i just reset it after a number of loops
[20:04] <costyn> jcoxon: any particular reason, or just in case?
[20:04] <jcoxon> just in case
[20:04] <costyn> i mean, did you have what I have in testing?
[20:05] <costyn> its weird
[20:05] <jcoxon> i've had a load of weird things
[20:05] <costyn> I tried resetting the arduino, but that didn't help
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> further questions and comments please
[20:05] <jcoxon> both in testing and in flight
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and thanks chrisstubbs
[20:05] <jcoxon> the rfm22 recently haven't been so good
[20:05] <jcoxon> perhaps a bad batch
[20:05] <costyn> hmmz
[20:05] <jcoxon> it reboots very quickly
[20:05] <costyn> ok, well I might help myself to your code :(
[20:05] <costyn> I mean, :( that I need it
[20:06] <jcoxon> sure
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[20:06] <jcoxon> the code for my flight this weekend is here
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[20:06] <jcoxon> though it includes all the aprs stuff as well
[20:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[20:07] <jcoxon> hey OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi James. How are the predic looking this weekend?
[20:07] <costyn> jcoxon: on github?
[20:08] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[20:08] <jcoxon> https://github.com/jamescoxon/PicoAtlas/tree/master/Pico94
[20:08] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/18849_trj001.gif
[20:08] <costyn> thanks
[20:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OK james, let me have a look at the coverage, its way north :-)
[20:09] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, thats a good few hours away
[20:09] <jcoxon> we've got some norwegian listeners haven't we?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes its too far north for us danes, so need to get some LAs
[20:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar
[20:10] <chrisstubbs> May have exceeded the maximum of 2500 queries per day to the google elevation API
[20:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LA3EQ is the best bet
[20:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fyi http://oz1sky.smart-tech.dk/hab/Coverage/northsea.html
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> my line of sight calculator script isnt very efficient
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56BkA-E-_k&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1
[20:12] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, we'll have some warning about if it'll even get far enough along the flight path
[20:12] <jcoxon> so don't need to rush
[20:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> you need someone up in the aberdeen area
[20:13] <jcoxon> yeah, we can do that
[20:14] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasvi#flight1
[20:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah yes theres one
[20:15] <Upu> evening all
[20:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> evening Anthony
[20:15] <jcoxon> i think teh best plan is to get it to float
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> evening Upu
[20:15] <jcoxon> then we can attempt to recruit listeners
[20:15] <jcoxon> the early bits should be well covered
[20:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats a first, james
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, you asked about the wires in the payload?
[20:15] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, will be launching at 1500 on saturday
[20:16] <jcoxon> Upu, whats better for this 2xAAA or 1xAA?
[20:16] <Upu> 1 x AA
[20:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jcoxon who is that one up near aberdeen ?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, do you have seven minutes :)?
[20:17] <jcoxon> Upu, despite more efficient?
[20:17] <Upu> seven ?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:17] <Upu> no sorry only got six
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:17] <Upu> not more efficient on 1.8v board
[20:17] <Upu> is on 3.3
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56BkA-E-_k&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1
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[20:18] <Upu> in a bit Lunar
[20:18] <Upu> just updating a customers server
[20:18] <jcoxon> Upu, will need some AAs then...
[20:19] <Upu> Tescos :)
[20:19] <jcoxon> hmmm 3xAAA + payload is 32.3g
[20:19] <jcoxon> :-p
[20:19] <jcoxon> okay
[20:19] <jcoxon> will find some AAs tomorrow
[20:21] <Upu> oh James
[20:21] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/max7c.jpg
[20:21] <jcoxon> oooo
[20:21] <jcoxon> thats exciting
[20:21] <costyn> jcoxon: there's an RF22::reset() fucntion, yet you use the digitalWrite(RFM22B_SDN, HIGH); followed by digitalWrite(RFM22B_SDN, LOW); in your pico94 code to reset it
[20:21] <jcoxon> what sort of benefits
[20:21] <costyn> jcoxon: is it more reliable?
[20:21] <Upu> no idea
[20:22] <Upu> not had chance to test it yet
[20:22] <Upu> 10Hz updates
[20:22] <jcoxon> costyn, well i'm turning it off completely
[20:22] <costyn> ok
[20:22] <Upu> allegedly 4.5mA in 1 sec cyclic
[20:22] <costyn> sounds like what I need
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> stupid question
[20:23] Action: eroomde braces himself
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> why are AAAA batteries called that way if they don't look smaller than AAA?
[20:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander nice video, but the antenna worrys me
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> I was told to put straws over the wires
[20:24] <daveake> because they're not AAA?
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea I mean AA is bigger than AAA then I thought AAAA is smaller than AAA
[20:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> have you just pressed the dipole into the centerpin of the bnc connector?
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> no I soldered it on
[20:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok good
[20:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> got the remote working on the radio on intranet, but for some reason not on the internet, will look into it
[20:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but should get it working for your flight, as im not home when you launch
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> :) sounds good
[20:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its abit tricky to route to the car :-)
[20:31] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Nice board :)
[20:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but should be able to get it working
[20:31] <Upu> you can buy them Gadget-Mac :)
[20:32] <Upu> not with the MAX7 on
[20:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> who need pictures, when you seen it in real life :-)
[20:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> on a short turnaround though :-)
[20:33] <Upu> :)
[20:34] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Is the max7 the same footprint
[20:34] <Upu> yep
[20:34] <Gadget-Mac> Assumed it would be, but nice
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[20:39] <costyn> jcoxon: ok, some soldering and some coding, lets see if it worked :)
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[20:41] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, hi! nice video tour. what camera you will be using?
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> the same one that I used for filming
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> Canon PowerShot A490
[20:42] <x-f> ok
[20:45] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, regarding your question from yesterday - Lithuania seems warmer to me :) also there have been at least two HAB flights already (GLORY), while i haven't found any in Estonia, so the former one is HAB-friendly for sure
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> didn't you say that someone of your friends knows the guy who made the GLORY project?
[20:46] <x-f> umm.. no?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> then I mixed that up
[20:46] <x-f> that may have been upix
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[20:48] <jcoxon> costyn, i'm going for a reset every 20strings
[20:48] <jcoxon> doesn't cause too much problem
[20:49] <costyn> although dl-fldigi seems to miss some strings now, but maybe I don't wait enough for the carrier to settle
[20:49] <costyn> I mean, it misses the first few $$
[20:49] <jcoxon> could add some more :-p
[20:49] <Steffanx> When is it going to fly costyn ?
[20:49] <costyn> Steffanx: this saturday :/
[20:49] <costyn> Steffanx: and I'm doing some last minute debugging, bah
[20:49] <Steffanx> ha
[20:50] <costyn> something really strange going on
[20:50] <daveake> pah. I wrote the flight control s/w for PIE4 the night before :)
[20:50] <daveake> well day before
[20:50] <eroomde> odd
[20:50] <eroomde> occured to me he hasn't been around for a while
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:02] <costyn> hmph
[21:02] <costyn> dodgy connection somewhere
[21:03] <costyn> if i tap it or shake it around the rfm goes silent
[21:06] <Maxell> Dutch-Mill: launch from The Hague saturday :D
[21:08] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: yea! come and watch... like to meet you :)
[21:08] <Maxell> :o
[21:08] <Maxell> https://revspace.nl/ContactAndRoute
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[21:18] Nick change: [1]Boggle -> Boggle
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[21:19] <Dutch-Mill> Hi Costyn just back from Berlin, i saw your posting on the list
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[21:28] <costyn> jcoxon: ugh... it's killing me
[21:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> costyn will be looking for your flight here too, should be in range
[21:28] <costyn> jcoxon: not coming back from reset... it worked once
[21:28] <jcoxon> costyn, hmmm thats odd
[21:29] <jcoxon> if you powercycle does it work again?
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dutch-Mill how did you like Berlin?
[21:29] <costyn> jcoxon: yes it does
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[21:29] <jcoxon> odd that it doesn't come back
[21:30] <Dutch-Mill> Hi Lunar_Lander 5 likes for Berlin!
[21:30] <jcoxon> costyn, can you put hte code somewhere for me to look at
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[21:30] <costyn> jcoxon: one sec
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:31] <costyn> jcoxon: https://github.com/costyn/habanero/blob/master/habanero.pde
[21:32] <Dutch-Mill> I think Berlin is the most vibrant city in Europe at te moment... ( Sorry at the other side of the North Sea... London i mean ;-)
[21:32] <jcoxon> costyn, you know your define for RFM22B_SDN
[21:32] <jcoxon> switch that to the actually pin number
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[21:32] <jcoxon> and see if that helps
[21:32] <costyn> hmm it seems to be working now... I added more delay
[21:32] <costyn> jcoxon: it's on pin 8?
[21:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:33] <costyn> you mean use the number 8 instead of the define?
[21:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:33] <costyn> ah ok
[21:33] <costyn> will do
[21:33] <jcoxon> digitalWrite(8, HIGH);
[21:33] <jcoxon> it shouldn't matter
[21:33] <jcoxon> but
[21:33] <jcoxon> it did for me
[21:33] <fsphil> what's the define?
[21:33] <costyn> yea noticed you had A5 intermingled with RFM22B_SDN
[21:35] <jcoxon> costyn, i've updated the code again
[21:35] <fsphil> that really made a difference?
[21:35] <jcoxon> who knows
[21:37] <costyn> jcoxon: thanks
[21:38] <costyn> jcoxon: weird, just broke it again by making the delay slower. your wait function is basically the same as delay right?
[21:38] <jcoxon> whats your speed?
[21:38] <costyn> 8 I think
[21:38] <Upu> is that wait ?
[21:38] <Upu> wait(); ?
[21:38] <Upu> if you're on 8Mhz use delay
[21:39] <costyn> yes, I'm using delay
[21:39] <Upu> I wrote wait as delay doesn't work on 4Mhz ┬ÁC
[21:40] <Upu> but tbh I wouldn't use it for anything where timing is crtical like rtty
[21:40] <Upu> critical
[21:40] <costyn> Upu: ah
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[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, how is work going?
[21:42] <Upu> coming along
[21:42] <costyn> jcoxon: ok, well it aint pretty but it seems to work
[21:43] <costyn> gonna have some grumbling people on saturday as the signal cuts out a second every once in a while :)
[21:43] <arko> supps
[21:43] <sjohn> hello, ii get a string of "$$SJohn,2013/02/28, 21:41:00,51.5137,+0.0189,10000, 7, 102890*BF46", how do i upload this?
[21:44] <sjohn> and mis this correct
[21:44] <sjohn> is
[21:44] <costyn> jcoxon: thanks for your help. gotta go sleep now
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you have time to check the video?
[21:45] <Upu> not at the moment Lunar
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:57] <Maxell> sjohn: you use the dl-fldigi (HAB version) to send it to the habitat tracker.
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[22:02] <sjohn_> how do i get a payload approved?
[22:03] <Maxell> sjohn_: I'm not sure.
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> just say "hello"
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:06] <sjohn_> hello Lunar_Lander
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> hello :)
[22:07] <eroomde> not to Lunar_Lander
[22:08] <eroomde> go to #habhub and ask for your doc to be approved
[22:08] <sjohn_> ok, hello eroomde
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[22:08] <eroomde> quote the number
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[22:10] <Hix> ping GMT
[22:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> costyn look like your flight will be tropo assisted http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_nwe.html
[22:17] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: is this good or bad news?
[22:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats good for the trackers
[22:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> good news
[22:18] <Hix> SDR dongles arrived, neither look like pics that were posted :/
[22:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it will enhance the radio range
[22:18] <fsphil> Hix: typical
[22:19] <Hix> E4000 is not E4000 but chinese chip, so prob a copy
[22:19] <Maxell> oh uh
[22:19] <Maxell> that does rtl_test tells you?
[22:20] <Maxell> Why not a mini R820T?
[22:20] <Hix> though one has a SOT23 D6 near the Rf conn -looks promising
[22:21] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: so it will bounce against it or just pass trough when it is above that layer?
[22:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it can do both, but it will still assist the signal
[22:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> I copyed PYSY on tropo assist, it was below the horizon here
[22:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 802km range
[22:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> whether or not
[22:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> depends on the angle of atack, on the tropo layer
[22:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> too steep and it will pass, and too shallow it will bounce off, in between it will get assisted
[22:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so no way of saying for sure, all i know is that in most cases it helps.
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[22:45] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/Nv3uoO8.jpg
[22:46] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/HDJo3pU.jpg
[22:46] <Hix> that's the two boards
[22:47] Nick change: aj_ -> aj
[22:49] <jonsowman> spot the ESD protection
[22:49] <jonsowman> or lack thereof
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah there is that one diode missing right?
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> so if you plug in an antenna with gain it will overload the board
[22:56] <craag> Lunar_Lander: More if you plug in an antenna that's large, the static electricity on the antenna can fry the first chip.
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:56] <fsphil> it's happened a few people
[22:57] <craag> This is very much worsened if your antenna is on a pole outside, any storm nearby can generate enough static in your antenna to kill it.
[22:57] <bertrik> http://i.imgur.com/HDJo3pU.jpg has the TVS as far as I can se
[22:58] <craag> bertrik: Yep, little three-legged thing next to the antenna socket.
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[22:59] <MrP> Hi all
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Hello.
[23:01] <bertrik> I see some colinear designs that are DC connected between antenna and shield
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> That doesn't help static created when you plug them in
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Well, it does a bit
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> But you need to plug it in carefully, shorting the shield to ground first
[23:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[23:05] <craag> Yeah, the diode costs pence and doesn't hurt, so no reason not to install it.
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> quite
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[23:24] <Hix-Android> Parafoil here too. Heh
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[00:00] --- Fri Mar 1 2013