highaltitude.log.20130220

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[00:26] <heathkid> what is KITT?
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[00:30] <heathkid> did I miss something?
[00:49] <Darkside> Knightriders car
[00:49] <Darkside> 80s tv show
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[01:13] <heathkid> oh
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[05:47] <arko> anyone have experience with R820T tuners?
[06:19] <x-f> i use a couple, if that counts
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[06:27] <arko> have you got them working with dl-fldigi?
[06:29] <x-f> yes, but it's not possible directly - you need SDRsharp (win) or Gqrx (linux) in between
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[06:35] <arko> did you use a virtual audio cable or tcp?
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[06:43] <x-f> virtual audio cable
[06:44] <x-f> arko, have you seen this? - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
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[07:54] <arko> woot
[07:54] <arko> working
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[08:05] <arko> anyone have any alternatives to VAC?
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[08:28] <costyn> arko: for windows right?
[08:29] <arko> yes
[08:29] <arko> got VAC
[08:29] <arko> working
[08:29] <arko> no more trail voice throwing me off
[08:30] <costyn> :)
[08:30] <arko> :) this is awesome
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[08:30] <costyn> arko: during future launches you can ask around, some people using websdr can let you listen in on their streams so you can do your own decoding with dl-fldigi. Maxell did this yesterday
[08:31] <costyn> arko: gives you some 'live' experience :)
[08:31] <arko> oh totally!
[08:31] <arko> please that sounds good
[08:31] <costyn> Maxell listened in to craag yesterday afaik
[08:32] <arko> i wish i was in the uk to decode these habs
[08:34] <costyn> yea the 'scene' here is quite active
[08:34] <arko> i only wish for that :(
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[08:43] <fsphil> there's a fair few launches there too, just all spread out
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[09:04] <HixWork> costyn, all good withthe cron yesterday?
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[09:08] <UpuWork> morning
[09:08] <fsphil> morn!
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[09:14] <costyn> HixWork: not sure, I didn't leave on the vm very long
[09:14] <costyn> HixWork: going to set it up on a esx server here at work
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[09:16] <costyn> HixWork: actually it seems to have worked!
[09:16] <costyn> just ran the vm again on my laptop
[09:18] <costyn> HixWork: what do the diffrent shades of red mean in the landing dots?
[09:19] <x-f> costyn, darker during night
[09:19] <HixWork> costyn, haven't got a clue
[09:19] <costyn> x-f: thanks :)
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[09:21] <HixWork> could anyone let me know what the .sh files in the paste are for? I can't find docs for it, so am trying to document the hourly
[09:21] <HixWork> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=bW9CsYha
[09:21] <costyn> those do the actual work?
[09:21] <costyn> fetching data and other stuff?
[09:21] <costyn> or am I thinking too simple?
[09:21] <HixWork> oh - and it turns out that the server decided it fancied another IP yesterday, screwing everyting remote up :)
[09:22] <HixWork> yeah, but I wanted to knwo the specific role of each one
[09:23] <x-f> HixWork, there shouldn't be any .sh files in the /web dir
[09:23] <x-f> and they are named after their meaning :)
[09:24] <x-f> grabdata - downloads the data from NOAA servers
[09:24] <costyn> HixWork: any idea why there are 2 of everything in /opt?
[09:24] <x-f> hourly-predictions - performs the calculations
[09:24] <HixWork> costyn, think chris set up two predictors
[09:24] <x-f> fetch-run - lauches both of these files
[09:25] <costyn> HixWork: ah ok
[09:25] <HixWork> cheers x-f
[09:25] <HixWork> wondered why they were duplicatede but as you said not supposed to be in /web
[09:26] <HixWork> costyn, I was thinking of renaming the 2's to _old to see if it screwed anything on the web server, if not then rm them
[09:26] <costyn> yea
[09:28] <costyn> HixWork: httpd.conf:DocumentRoot "/opt/cusf-landing-prediction/web/hourly-predictions" <-- apache is configured for the other, so you should be able to delete 2
[09:29] <HixWork> where is that file located then?
[09:29] <costyn> /etc/httpd/conf
[09:29] <HixWork> so I can find out momre about the apache server on there
[09:29] <HixWork> cool, cheers
[09:31] <costyn> darn, today would be a perfect day to launch. It would land in NickB's backyard
[09:33] <HixWork> :D
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[09:34] <costyn> does it automatically purge past launch times?
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[09:36] <eroomde> morning
[09:39] <number10> morning
[09:41] <arko> Good night!
[09:41] <costyn> arko: cya
[09:41] <arko> Upu: parts arrived! Thank you sir!
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[09:41] <UpuWork> Blimey that was quick
[09:41] <arko> Can wait to mill my PCB this weekend
[09:41] <arko> Yeah no kidding
[09:42] <arko> Some stuff internal to us doesn't ship that fast
[09:42] <UpuWork> I posted that on the 15th
[09:42] <costyn> that is impressive
[09:42] <UpuWork> normally stuff to the US is catastrophically slow
[09:42] <arko> Go dl-fldigi working
[09:42] <arko> So cool
[09:42] <arko> Hehe
[09:42] <arko> Got*
[09:44] <arko> I maybe able to slap together an rtty radio to tack onto the hab. Or do a small 50g launch
[09:44] <arko> Who knows
[09:44] <arko> In the mean time. Its 2am
[09:44] <arko> Good night/morning
[09:44] <UpuWork> night
[09:45] <HixWork> night arko / morning eroomde
[09:46] <HixWork> hmm
[09:46] <HixWork> ./fetch-run-cronjob.sh
[09:46] <HixWork> Could not locate a dataset for the requested time.
[09:46] <HixWork> do i need to clear something?
[09:47] <Randomskk> that's a kind of known bug
[09:47] <Randomskk> I have to go right now but uhm
[09:47] <Randomskk> try again later
[09:47] <Randomskk> there's a workaround
[09:47] <Randomskk> and it's kind of NOAA's fault, if it's what I expect
[09:52] <Maxell> arko: on linux I can use pulseaudio. That way I can select a "local monitor", aka stereo mix.
[09:56] <costyn> Maxell: arko's asleep already, and uses Windows
[09:56] <costyn> :)
[09:57] <costyn> Maxell: hourly predictor works now, but I can't show it to you (yet). no access from teh webs
[09:57] <HixWork> ok cheers Randomskk
[10:06] <HixWork> costyn, there's arandom folder in /opt called rh to
[10:06] <HixWork> *too, that can go to make things cleaner
[10:09] <costyn> HixWork: thx
[10:09] <HixWork> so now there's just [root@localhost opt]# ls
[10:09] <HixWork> cusf-landing-prediction cusf-standalone-predictor landing-prediction-data
[10:09] <HixWork> much tidier
[10:10] <costyn> I think I'll leave it, I might setup 2 hourlies
[10:11] <HixWork> oh, ermm the hourly web page is not showing any data for lat long alt or for that matter any predictions
[10:12] <HixWork> is that coz i updated the scenario-template.json?
[10:23] <x-f> HixWork, do you have some files in the /web/hourly-predictions/data?
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[10:33] <eroomde> i needs me a monitor stand
[10:34] <eroomde> the next item on the slippery slope of spending too much time sat at a desk
[10:34] <daveake> For how many monitors?
[10:34] <eroomde> 2
[10:34] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hcqlxixx8kih350/2013-02-19%2011.42.07.jpg
[10:34] <eroomde> this is my desk currently
[10:35] <eroomde> with a monitor stand i can put the psu and scope underneath
[10:35] <eroomde> and have the speakers at desk height either side
[10:35] <eroomde> and the monitors about 10cm higher which would help a bit
[10:35] <daveake> Desktop pic from your trip ?
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[10:35] <eroomde> yes
[10:35] <daveake> ncie :)
[10:35] <eroomde> the sierra navads at dawn
[10:35] <daveake> Not jealous :)
[10:35] <daveake> How was Route 1?
[10:36] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8435590459/in/set-72157632591417825/lightbox/
[10:36] <eroomde> route 1 was awesome
[10:36] <daveake> I need to do that in an open-top car sometime
[10:36] <daveake> Only done in an RV so far
[10:36] <eroomde> roof down, nice throaty rumble from the mustang, amazing scenery. the radio bing very obliging with things like Hotel California
[10:37] <daveake> hah
[10:37] <HixWork> pwd
[10:37] <eroomde> Santer Cruz you're no tnthat far came on at Monterey
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[10:37] <daveake> Did you stop between SF and LA?
[10:37] <eroomde> god was waching over me
[10:37] <eroomde> yes i did
[10:37] <daveake> at?
[10:37] <eroomde> i stopped at sant abarbera, cambria, monterey, and santa cruz
[10:37] <HixWork> x-f it's empty
[10:37] <daveake> ditto
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[10:37] <eroomde> i also while in sf separately went down to mountain view, palo alto, stanford
[10:37] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[10:37] <daveake> Stayed at Morro Dunes overnight
[10:38] <eroomde> you stopped at cambria?
[10:38] <Lunar_LanderU> what is the neck diameter of a KCI-1500 balloon?
[10:38] <daveake> Morro Dunes - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8138921413/in/set-72157631888852035
[10:38] <HixWork> x-f is that because i ran prune-predictions-cronjob.sh
[10:38] <Lunar_LanderU> the balloon data page only gives diameters for Hwoyee
[10:38] <eroomde> wowza
[10:38] <daveake> tbh I#ve forgotten already but I can check :)
[10:39] <eroomde> it's very small which is why i asked
[10:39] <eroomde> but i really liked it
[10:39] <daveake> That sunset just went on and on
[10:40] <daveake> You'll know this place http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8138817724/in/set-72157631888852035
[10:40] <eroomde> SB?
[10:41] <daveake> yup
[10:41] <daveake> And checking, no we didn't stop at Cambria
[10:41] <eroomde> you wouldn't really
[10:41] <eroomde> i just stopped there because it was convenient point to stop toards the end of day 1
[10:41] <daveake> Did you go seal-watching?
[10:41] <eroomde> before saving the reason awesome bit of route 1 from there to big sur for the next day
[10:42] <daveake> Moonstone Beach was really nice
[10:42] <eroomde> did you see any seals?
[10:42] <daveake> loads
[10:42] <eroomde> there are bloody everywhere
[10:42] <daveake> There are some at Moonstone beach, and some elephant seals north of Hearst Castle
[10:43] <eroomde> i pulled over as there was such a racket coming from the beach i could here as i drove along
[10:43] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8476716337/in/set-72157632591417825/lightbox/
[10:43] <daveake> hah
[10:43] <eroomde> hear*
[10:43] <daveake> nice
[10:43] <daveake> b/w really works for that
[10:43] <eroomde> i like b/w
[10:44] <daveake> more seals http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8147289496/in/set-72157631910031321
[10:44] <daveake> And views like this are just standard on that coast http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8147295960/in/set-72157631910031321
[10:45] <eroomde> yeah
[10:46] <UpuWork> ping x-f
[10:46] <eroomde> i have a lot like that i need to put up
[10:46] <eroomde> what is your longer lens?
[10:46] <eroomde> i am thinking hard about cameras atm
[10:47] <eroomde> on the one hand i'd love to get a leica m9 for lots of reason.s on the other hand for that money you could get a nikon d600 with 24mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.7, and the 70-200VR f/2.8 that is one of the best lenses i've ever used
[10:48] <eroomde> and it seems bonkers to not get the nikon kit but get the leica, but then the leica is something that would never leave my side which is argueably more important in a camera, and their lenses are preposterously wonderful
[10:49] <daveake> I have a cheap 55-200mm lens for the Canon. Nice for the money, with very effective IS
[10:49] <daveake> But those photos with filenames P... are all on a Lumix bridge camera
[10:50] <eroomde> that seal shot has the nice compressed perspective and narrow focal length of a long lens
[10:50] <eroomde> i like it v much
[10:51] <daveake> Ta :). That was full out on the Lumix
[10:52] <daveake> 600mm, and a small sensor
[10:52] <eroomde> i love the compression at longer focal lengths
[10:52] <eroomde> makes me pine after an slr
[10:52] <daveake> Sorry, 600mm 35mm equiv
[10:53] <daveake> That's longer than my regular SLR lenses
[10:53] <daveake> I do have a mirror lens which I think I've used once
[10:53] <eroomde> bigger sensors are good too though, as you get a wider field of view for a given focal length
[10:53] <daveake> yep
[10:54] <eroomde> so for example with medius format you get the same fov on an 80 as a 35mm sensor with a 50 but the the 80 looks a bit less distorted
[10:54] <eroomde> i would go MF if the sensors weren't so pricey
[10:54] <eroomde> and i'm not sure i want to get back into developing my own film
[10:54] <eroomde> it's quite a can of worms
[10:54] <eroomde> but like, the rolls royce of film cameras 10 years ago is now absolute peanuts on ebay
[10:55] <daveake> The day I used the mirror lens :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6513315255/in/set-72157628426877853/
[10:55] <eroomde> you can get a hasseleblad 500 in gread condition with a 80mm f/2.8 lens for about £800
[10:55] <eroomde> which is outrageous!
[10:55] <eroomde> that would have cost the price of a family car 10 years ago
[10:55] <daveake> yup
[10:55] <eroomde> i am well jel you got to see a shuttle launch
[10:56] <daveake> That was in my mental must-do list for ages
[10:56] <eroomde> too late for me
[10:56] <eroomde> sadly
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[10:56] <daveake> Then one day I just thought "er, why not just do it?"
[10:56] <eroomde> i becaome a man with independent income too late in life
[10:57] <daveake> We were thinking of a Florida holiday, so I checked the shuttle schedule and there was one a few weeks away.
[10:57] <Laurenceb_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554155_505525759512846_1305614787_n.jpg
[10:57] <UpuWork> if I click on that and its not relevant to the conversation Laurenceb I'm going to remotely stab you in the face
[10:57] <sJohn> hi,does anyone think a helix antennas are good to use in high alt
[10:57] <daveake> Take this knife
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[10:58] <eroomde> yes Laurenceb_, can you decamp to some internet mouthbreather channel where that kind of bollocks is considered funny
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> k ill head back
[10:58] <eroomde> sJohn: for what purpose?
[10:59] <eroomde> as GPS antennas, yes definitely, they're great
[10:59] <daveake> sJohn for GPS or UHF?
[10:59] <sJohn> uhf
[10:59] <eroomde> as telemetry to ground antennas, a lot of the characteristics that make them appealing are not so relevent for the way we typically do it
[10:59] <daveake> I flew one for UHF last weekend. Worked well though it may have affected the GPS. Need another test
[10:59] <daveake> Signal strength on te ground was just fine
[11:00] <eroomde> eg we don;t use circular polarisation as a rule, and we prefere things with a radiation pattern that sticks more energy out to the horizon, and often such antennas are significantly simpler to construct than ahelical
[11:00] <UpuWork> I would suggest you stick to a 1/4 wave
[11:00] <eroomde> excuse my typing
[11:00] <UpuWork> As daveake said the stub worked fine but may have interfered with the GPS
[11:01] <UpuWork> ok European HAMs if you're online. I need to know what country you are from and if the use of airborne APRS is permitted in your country thanks
[11:01] <eroomde> most of the ground receivers have vertically polarised uhf antennas, and given you have line of sight in habs almost always, there's an advantage to transmitting with the same polarisation
[11:01] <eroomde> UpuWork: mailing list?
[11:01] <UpuWork> well
[11:01] <sJohn> yh the 1/4wave is simple and does the job well i have heard
[11:01] <costyn> UpuWork: will try to find out for NL
[11:01] <UpuWork> Steve tried and got no response
[11:01] <sJohn> daveake was it a normal mode or axial helical?
[11:02] <daveake> UpuWork was it a normal mode or axial helical?
[11:02] <UpuWork> thanks costyn
[11:02] <UpuWork> 1 sec I'll get the link
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[11:02] <UpuWork> it was this : http://uk.farnell.com/lprs/ant-ss400/antenna-stub-straight-434mhz/dp/2096220
[11:03] <eroomde> sJohn: yes they're very effective, simple to make, and used on the overwhelming majority of ukhas flights historically
[11:04] <eroomde> that's not to say they're best in any specific metric, but they've won out for reasons of being pretty good from a radiation pattern pov and easy to construct
[11:04] <UpuWork> eroomde https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/ukhas/e7TUPlLtZZk/OiQDZwzLRV8J
[11:04] <Lunar_LanderU> hello UpuWork and the others
[11:04] <UpuWork> hi Lunar
[11:04] <UpuWork> do you know any Germany HAMS ?
[11:05] <eroomde> oh, missed that
[11:05] <UpuWork> so did I in fairness
[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> yea I know two near Osnabruck
[11:05] <UpuWork> found it via a google search
[11:05] <sJohn> i will build both helical and 1/4 wave (1/4 wave as back up)
[11:05] <UpuWork> Could you ask them if the airborne use of APRS is permitted in Germany please ? Links to any legislation to prove it would also be appreciate thanks
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> OK, will do
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> but wait
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> the Lake Constance balloons used APRS afaik
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> but I will ask
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> I would need an info as well
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> what's the neck diameter of a Kaymont balloon?
[11:07] <Lunar_LanderU> a 1500 g to be specific
[11:07] <eroomde> |-----------------------------------------|
[11:07] <eroomde> about that
[11:07] <eroomde> with a 10pt monospace font
[11:07] <daveake> And a 24" monitor
[11:07] <eroomde> oh kaymont!!sorry
[11:07] <eroomde> IGNORE
[11:07] <daveake> And xxx dpi
[11:07] <eroomde> right, kaymont
[11:07] <daveake> |------------------------------------------------|
[11:08] <eroomde> well, not sure entirely but i do know the fit nicely on 32mm pvc tubing as a fill tube
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> OK thanks
[11:08] <daveake> From Steve's site
[11:08] <daveake> Note: Hwoyee balloon neck diameter: 500g 6.4cm, 1000g 7.7cm, 1200, 1600 and 2000g 8.3cm.
[11:08] <daveake> Totex balloons generally have a 3cm diameter neck - except the 2000g & 3000g which has a 5cm neck.
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> OK that is good
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe that should be included in the Wiki as well
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[11:08] <eroomde> so yep, 32mm pvc tube for the filler
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later
[11:09] <UpuWork> You're welcome to update the Wiki Lunar
[11:09] <fsphil> you launching Lunar_LanderU?
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: I'll ask for you
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: well, preperations
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:09] <fsphil> excellent
[11:09] <UpuWork> cheers Lunar
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> you're welcome
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later!
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[11:10] <daveake> Lunar_LanderUTurn
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[11:13] <HixWork> [root@localhost scripts]# ./grabdata-cronjob.sh
[11:13] <HixWork> Could not locate a dataset for the requested time.
[11:13] <HixWork> could anyone explain this to me? is it that i ran it when NOAA haven't released any data atm
[11:13] <cuddykid> daveake: have you been to florida before?
[11:14] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) joined #highaltitude.
[11:16] <daveake> A few times yes
[11:17] <x-f> UpuWork, pong
[11:18] <UpuWork> hey x-f
[11:18] <x-f> hi
[11:18] <UpuWork> you're from Latvia ?
[11:18] <x-f> yes
[11:18] <UpuWork> do you know if you are permitted to use airborne APRS transmissions there ?
[11:19] <x-f> no, i don't know :/
[11:20] <UpuWork> ok cheers I'll keep digging :)
[11:20] <x-f> i could check some regulations, but not right now
[11:20] <UpuWork> when you get time it would be appreciated
[11:20] <x-f> sure
[11:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Can we use APRS in your country?"
[11:23] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: i assume you intend to tx above water?
[11:24] <UpuWork> generally yes
[11:25] <mattbrejza> you must have had fun drawing all those lines btw...
[11:25] <UpuWork> did I get something wrong ?
[11:25] <UpuWork> lol
[11:25] <UpuWork> 2 weeks :/
[11:25] <UpuWork> on and off
[11:25] <mattbrejza> na its just the water isnt green or anythnig
[11:25] <UpuWork> they all match up
[11:25] <mattbrejza> did you manually enter gps points into a text document?
[11:26] <UpuWork> well used some Steve had done for France and Spain and worked from them using a number of tools
[11:26] <UpuWork> http://www.birdtheme.org/useful/googletool.html
[11:26] <UpuWork> was helpful
[11:26] <mattbrejza> also theres a little void between germany and switz
[11:26] <UpuWork> oh yes
[11:26] <UpuWork> well spotted I'll fix that
[11:28] <UpuWork> And Ireland is entirely missing :)
[11:31] <costyn> UpuWork: airborne APRS is ok in Netherlands
[11:31] <UpuWork> thanks Costyn
[11:32] <costyn> UpuWork: I don't have an online source, but heard from a Dutch ham who asked a fellow Dutch ham
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[11:32] <UpuWork> sounds suitably chinese whispers for me
[11:32] <costyn> apparently there are no rules about it, but I do read in this forum post the SSID should end in -9
[11:32] <costyn> err -11
[11:33] <costyn> APRS aeronautical mobile
[11:33] <UpuWork> -> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0UPU-11&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[11:33] <HixWork> UpuWork, had you got bored by the time you got to the UK?
[11:33] <UpuWork> ping lz1dev
[11:33] <lz1dev> pong UpuWork
[11:33] <UpuWork> hi there
[11:34] <lz1dev> hey
[11:34] <UpuWork> can we use airborne APRS in Bulgaria ?
[11:34] <costyn> UpuWork: there's a post about a guy being persecuted in Belgium though: http://www.pi4raz.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=855&Itemid=1 so not sure about that
[11:34] <lz1dev> yes
[11:34] <UpuWork> thanks
[11:34] <lz1dev> there should be no problem, there are 3 aprs igates
[11:34] <lz1dev> on mountain peaks
[11:34] <costyn> UpuWork: although it's from 2008, so it might've been updated since then
[11:34] <lz1dev> so lots of covarage
[11:35] <UpuWork> if I get to Bulgaria
[11:35] <UpuWork> I'll be happy
[11:35] <lz1dev> when is your flight?
[11:35] <UpuWork> not sure yet
[11:35] <UpuWork> waiting on weather
[11:35] <UpuWork> but soon
[11:36] <UpuWork> week or two
[11:36] <costyn> UpuWork: do you have a pic of your tracker?
[11:36] <UpuWork> somewhere 1 sec
[11:36] <costyn> UpuWork: is it the tiny one you've been working on?
[11:36] <lz1dev> UpuWork: cool, might be in time to test the aprs daemon
[11:37] <sJohn> is a helix applicable to receive the signal, or does the immense size become a nuisance
[11:37] <UpuWork> just uploading costyn
[11:37] <eroomde> sJohn: depends
[11:38] <eroomde> are you putting it on the roof of your car or the roof of your house?
[11:38] <UpuWork> Its been suggested the APRS payload flying into Germany should look like this :
[11:38] <UpuWork> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRX5nWeJmEYll8XYf3fglh64EdrM6sKYXtiHD3yiDadU8Eo17kM
[11:38] <UpuWork> costyn
[11:38] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/V9Kxy#0
[11:38] <lz1dev> hahah
[11:38] <costyn> UpuWork: lol
[11:38] <eroomde> but really, i don't see why it has any particular merit for this aplication over a bunch of other options i would sooner use
[11:38] <costyn> UpuWork: ooh nice
[11:39] <UpuWork> dual APRS & RTTY
[11:39] <costyn> very purdy
[11:40] <costyn> UpuWork: what kind of lithiums are you using?
[11:40] <HixWork> UpuWork, in http://imgur.com/a/V9Kxy#2 is there tape to insulate uBlox from vias there?
[11:41] <costyn> HixWork: that's the NTX spot afaik
[11:41] <costyn> err RFM22
[11:41] <UpuWork> its how I solder the pad on the regulator on the other side
[11:41] <UpuWork> put some Kapton tape there just in case
[11:42] <HixWork> ah, right gotcha, thought i may need to insulate my ublox
[11:42] <UpuWork> costyn 3 pairs of AA's
[11:42] <UpuWork> so 6 batteries
[11:42] <costyn> ah
[11:42] <HixWork> mitch mailed me, both boards passed tests and are being fab'd now
[11:42] <UpuWork> about a weeks run time
[11:42] <UpuWork> well 6 days
[11:42] <Elwell> UpuWork: can you check the tracking no you gave me?
[11:43] <Elwell> Your item, posted on 18/02/13 with reference RJ794...GB has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in SWITZERLAND
[11:44] <Elwell> while its not that far to walk, I'd rather it was delivered to france
[11:44] <UpuWork> uh :)
[11:46] <UpuWork> you can try Swiss post with the same number
[11:46] <UpuWork> but its not officially a tracking number
[11:47] <Elwell> yeah 's OK - now I know where it's going it'll turn up
[11:47] <Elwell> and hopefully not be nailed on import tax as its to office
[11:49] <sJohn> eroomde, probably car
[11:49] <sJohn> i will be holding it/placing it on the ground
[11:51] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Friend in NZ ordered something from the US, and it seems to have shipped via Pakistan, possibly stopping in London on the way. Took a fair while...
[11:53] <eroomde> sJohn: i wouldn't bother but again it depends on what you're using to transmit
[11:53] <eroomde> helicals at both ends would match each other but the whole idea seems more complicated and time consuing than necessary to me
[11:54] <eroomde> i'd just use a whip on the ground when you can and a yagi on the ground when you have to
[11:56] <sJohn> i see, i'd take it into account, thanks
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[11:58] <fsphil> I didn't even bother with the yagi last time
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[12:28] Jess-- (51a81682@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.168.22.130) joined #highaltitude.
[12:29] <Jess--> does this look like valid tracker data to anyone? $$VBRTEST,27,122724,530827,1133,5,F,247,336,243*891F
[12:30] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[12:30] <fsphil> the checksum is valid
[12:30] <Randomskk> [2013-02-20 12:26:06,760] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$AVA,4850,12:25:48,53.75244,-1.81791,269,6,8,XM,402*7940\n' (e17947d87e791dc4ecf355577b7dbcd4a29648bcb18eab08f3eae1a91c293d02) from M0UPU
[12:30] <Randomskk> [2013-02-20 12:25:59,208] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[12:30] <Randomskk> [2013-02-20 12:25:59,208] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: No configuration doc for 'VBRTEST' found
[12:30] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[12:31] <Randomskk> uhm sorry that was ava
[12:31] <Randomskk> ignore 1st line
[12:32] <Randomskk> anyway it looks valid enough
[12:33] <Randomskk> just make a payload config doc
[12:33] <Randomskk> ^^
[12:37] <Randomskk> 1134 is not a longitude, Jess--
[12:38] <Jess--> I'm getting some strange results, code is basicly a copy of craag1
[12:39] kiwi_ (50d97db4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.217.125.180) joined #highaltitude.
[12:39] <Jess--> it's sat outside my back door on top of a wheelie bin at the min
[12:39] <mattbrejza> surely is 53.0, 0.1133?
[12:39] <mattbrejza> PE22?
[12:40] <Randomskk> you can't send 1133 as a lng
[12:40] <mattbrejza> why not?
[12:40] <Randomskk> ambiguous
[12:41] <mattbrejza> isnt htat why you have the payload doc?
[12:41] <Jess--> the postcode is accurate mattbrejza
[12:41] <mattbrejza> Jess--: generate the doc by copyinh craag1
[12:41] <Randomskk> not an accepted format. could use a filter
[12:41] <zyp> Randomskk, what's ambiguous with that? if the value is defined to be x*10000, then sending 1133 for 0.1133 is fine
[12:42] <HixWork> zyp the string showed ,530827,1133
[12:43] <mattbrejza> it wont work with the android app atm though
[12:43] <zyp> HixWork, yes, so 53.0827 and 0.1133?
[12:43] <Randomskk> ambiguous w/o filter being set in doc
[12:43] <HixWork> will dlfldigi automatically convert that then?
[12:43] <fsphil> habitat will if the doc is correct
[12:43] <fsphil> fldigi won't
[12:44] <HixWork> ok
[12:44] <Randomskk> won't itZ
[12:44] <Randomskk> ?*
[12:44] <fsphil> the distance thing doesn't work for me when the coordinates are not dd.dddd
[12:44] <Randomskk> need filter anyway
[12:46] <Randomskk> soon preferably, parser keeps emailing me :P
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[12:46] <mattbrejza> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/3bbad842c06828b08556048b3d1b3514
[12:47] <mattbrejza> {"filter":"common.numeric_scale","source":"latitude","factor":0.00010000000000000000479,"round":7,"type":"normal"}
[12:47] <jonsowman> mmm filters
[12:48] <mattbrejza> Jess--: should i just create a working payload doc for you?
[12:48] <Jess--> if someone could I would be grateful as this is new to me, the only thing that should change is the temps and batt voltage become valid
[12:49] <Jess--> in theory it's the same as craag1 with just a call change
[12:51] <UpuWork> if my payload is getting in the way I'll go offline
[12:51] <Randomskk> not a problem
[12:52] <mattbrejza> isnt this doc fine though: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/fc28d91f69f661aa5a6fd55f902deef6
[12:52] <mattbrejza> has someone got there before me
[12:52] <Jess--> fc28d91f69f661aa5a6fd55f902deef6 was the one I tried to copy from craag1 but I don't seem to be having success
[12:54] <mattbrejza> Jess--: are you sending altitude?
[12:54] <mattbrejza> youre missing a field
[12:54] <Jess--> it should be, currently -1
[12:55] <mattbrejza> ok, so youre not sending number of satellites?
[12:55] <Jess--> no it's not, format should be count, hour, minute, second, lat, lon, alt, state, battV, intTemp, extTemp
[12:56] <Jess--> hour minute second seem to be combined
[12:56] <mattbrejza> ok i removed #sats
[12:57] <mattbrejza> yea its working now
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[12:58] <fsphil> nice location
[12:59] <costyn> fsphil: which?
[12:59] <UpuWork> Jess--'s
[13:00] <Jess--> many thanks for the help, it's all on flyleads at the moment, just got to shrink it down now I know it's working, and add the temp sensors and batt voltage reading
[13:00] <Jess--> it's currently working from a single D cell
[13:03] <costyn> what're the coordinates?
[13:03] <UpuWork> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[13:03] <UpuWork> by the sea
[13:03] <UpuWork> sort of
[13:03] <UpuWork> actually
[13:03] <costyn> ah was looking through the coordinates postd here
[13:03] <costyn> :)
[13:03] <UpuWork> what frequency are you transmitting on Jess--
[13:03] <UpuWork> ?
[13:04] <Jess--> 434.201
[13:04] <UpuWork> actually never mind my radio is currnetly pretending to be an APRS Digi
[13:04] <UpuWork> I have a clear LoS out that way
[13:05] <mattbrejza> dont you have a spare radio/antenna UpuWork ?
[13:05] <UpuWork> yeah but the Yagi is currently unplugged
[13:07] <mattbrejza> :(
[13:09] <Jess--> http://81.168.22.130/trackertest.jpg is its current state
[13:11] <mattbrejza> pretty small as it is
[13:11] <mattbrejza> just put a smaller battery on it :)
[13:12] <fsphil> so how long before you've ported the tracker to this mattbrejza? :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1uyQZNg2vE
[13:12] <Jess--> it's going to get a lot more compact, batteries for flight will probably be a pair of AA's
[13:13] <mattbrejza> just need a gps + 434 radio + processor SoC
[13:14] <UpuWork> yeah lol at the battery :)
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[13:31] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Where to launch in UK."
[13:32] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[13:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Marco (projectBLAST) "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement: University of Southampton Project BLAST
[13:35] <costyn> fsphil: google glass looks pretty spectacular
[13:35] <costyn> fsphil: that commercial has a very Apple feel to it :)
[13:36] <lz1dev> Jess--: thats some battery you've got there
[13:38] <Jess--> lol it's only for testing
[13:41] <lz1dev> :)
[13:41] <Jess--> the whole tracker could be built inside the battery casing (and still have spare space)
[13:44] <Jess--> these rfm22 boards have quite a lot of freq drift on them, I'm seeing 200+ Hz
[13:44] <lz1dev> proposterous, if i saw it with my own two eyes, i would not believe it
[13:45] <Randomskk> that's not a lot
[13:45] <fsphil> costyn: haha, it does doesn't it
[13:46] <Jess--> I guess I'm just used to freq being very tightly controlled where a drift of 200Hz would wipe out 3 other transmitters
[13:48] <fsphil> drifting has always been an issue
[13:49] <fsphil> if we had more power I suspect FM would be more popular
[13:53] <HixWork> is ausops@caa.co.uk still the correct prot of call for liaising with the CAA with regards to launch?
[13:54] <jonsowman> yep
[13:54] <HixWork> cool - time to talk locations with them
[13:54] <jonsowman> there is a direct address for the guy but they're essentially the same thing in that nobody else ever replies
[13:54] <jonsowman> in fact he doesn't even bother sometimes
[13:54] <HixWork> :D
[13:55] <fsphil> I have sometimes got replies from someone else
[13:55] <HixWork> Got a name - better to start off friendly i guess
[13:55] <jonsowman> :o
[13:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: out of office?
[13:56] <daveake> s/sometimes/usually/
[13:56] aaa (d925d971@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.37.217.113) joined #highaltitude.
[13:56] <fsphil> once DM was out of office, the other time was to confirm that they'd received the request
[13:56] <fsphil> different people both times
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[13:57] <jonsowman> wonders will never cease
[13:57] <jonsowman> bbl
[13:57] <HixWork> DAngermouse is in charge of ops
[13:58] <daveake> please please please please let his assistant be Penfold
[13:58] <fsphil> sadly not
[13:59] <HixWork> is there a formal name for DM?
[13:59] <fsphil> He Who Must Not Be Named
[13:59] <fsphil> or, David Miller
[13:59] <HixWork> :) ta fsphil
[14:01] <HixWork> as a guide, what sort of distance from a TMA is the minumum from experience?
[14:05] <Elwell> |<-------- at least this much ------->|
[14:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Where to launch in UK."
[14:06] <mattbrejza> heh
[14:06] Action: daveake checks mailing list ....
[14:06] <daveake> lol
[14:07] <costyn> hehe
[14:09] <HixWork> Elwell, is that metric or imperial?
[14:10] <Elwell> HixWork: depends on your monitor resolution :-)
[14:10] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/hcbvY gives me a good idea where I'm going to get clearance
[14:10] <HixWork> monitors are pretty much all imperial though arent they ;p
[14:17] <HixWork> he he don't hold back eroomde
[14:17] <Penfold> Crumbs, chief.
[14:19] Nick change: HixWork -> DangerMouse
[14:19] <DangerMouse> Penfold!!!!
[14:20] Nick change: DangerMouse -> HixWork
[14:20] <x-f> i liked that cartoon
[14:21] <Penfold> Narrated, one should point out, by the recently deceased and sadly missed Richard Briers.
[14:22] <Penfold> ah - tell a lie. confusing it with Roobarb. Narrated by David Jason.
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[14:26] <HixWork> wasn't dangermouse narrated by ronnie corbett
[14:27] <fsphil> David Jason did the voice of DM
[14:27] <HixWork> ahh oops
[14:27] <eroomde> as my fried said at a dinner party,
[14:27] <eroomde> "My name, is David Jason. Not many people know that"
[14:27] <eroomde> er, no, harry, wrong person
[14:29] <HixWork> a friend of a friend had a method for escaping dinner parties with his wife - it involved the question "why does noddy have a bell on his head"
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[14:29] <HixWork> at which point his wife used to get up and announce their retirement from the evening
[14:30] <eroomde> that's worth remembering
[14:30] <HixWork> before he got the answer out.
[14:30] <HixWork> Apparently, after the first time, it worked with 100% success
[14:30] <eroomde> harry can always be relied upon to have a venture at a smooth move but slightly mess it up in a way that's not amusing to him but amusing to everyone else
[14:32] <eroomde> eg sliding up to a quite atractive girl working behind the bar at a coctail club in london and saying with a twinkle in his eye "I'll have a pass-ion-ah-teh plume"
[14:32] <HixWork> I have a friend in media, he can talk with the best of them, but every now and again, drops an unintentional tact-bomb
[14:32] <eroomde> Waitress: "... you mean a passionate plum?"
[14:32] <HixWork> it brings tears to our eyes because we can see it coming having known him since school
[14:32] <HixWork> and he is still oblivious to what his mouth is about to do
[14:33] <HixWork> I'm sniggering thinking of some of them
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[14:38] <eroomde> anyone know if these things, which are very much cheaper than the sort of more prevelent erotron ones, are still any good or do you get what you pay for?
[14:38] <eroomde> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DeskMountPro-Twin-Desktop-Monitor-Stand-Dual-LCD-Mount-Steel-Silver-VESA-100-PC-/390473158623?pt=UK_Computing_Monitor_Mounts_Stands&hash=item5aea038fdf
[14:39] <russss> eroomde: I just got an Arctic Z2 for work, which is pretty cheap, and it does the job but it injured me assembling it
[14:39] <eroomde> i wont really every need to adjust the monitors as if they were an anglepoise like i know the ergotrons can do, so as long as they can hold them still in a relatively stiff way then i don't see what's to lose, but what to check incase anyone else has experienced them
[14:39] <eroomde> russss: interesting
[14:39] <eroomde> and cheaper!
[14:40] <eroomde> an injury i could avoid if you recount it to me?
[14:40] <russss> just cheap construction, you have to get the thumbscrews really tight for them to stay in position
[14:40] <russss> and that's tricky when it's got two monitors on
[14:41] <eroomde> but will they basically do the job once set up or do they droop over a period of time?
[14:41] <russss> they have stayed in place for a few weeks so far
[14:41] <eroomde> i really just want the stand to get the monitors a few cm higher and so i can get some test equipment under the monitors flush with the screen
[14:41] <fsphil> the single monitor bracket I have droops :(
[14:42] <Brace> eroomde: I've had some really cheap ones in the past and they generally work fine
[14:43] <eroomde> cool, will give it a whirl
[14:43] <eroomde> thanks all
[14:43] <eroomde> that's probably used up my OT allowance for today :)
[14:44] <fsphil> it's fine, dual monitors are great for tracking...
[14:44] <fsphil> that ebay one does look rather nifty
[14:44] <daveake> Let's hope nobody mentions fine wine or food
[14:44] <eroomde> yes they are super for tracking
[14:44] <mattbrejza> yea look at all that relevent HAB discussion youre getting in the way of...
[14:44] <daveake> :)
[14:45] <mattbrejza> im suprised noones made a SHARP comment yet
[14:45] <fsphil> the channel's lost focus
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[14:46] <eroomde> good they're trying again though
[14:46] <eroomde> they'll have a blast
[14:46] <eroomde> actually it is annyingly because blast is the name of a really high profile scientific high altitude balloon experiment
[14:46] <eroomde> annoying*
[14:46] <daveake> Yeah that was aninteresting dvd
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[14:47] <fsphil> BLAST ... sounds like a really british person trying to swear
[14:47] <mattbrejza> we just need to rename blast in the same way sharp -> blunt/slarp
[14:47] <daveake> Maybe someone said that at the cutdown test
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[14:48] <daveake> implode?
[14:50] <griffonbot> @ProjectBlast: BLASTs first full launch will be this Saturday from Dover's Hill, Gloucestershire. Full details at http://t.co/p7kOUjmU #ukhas [http://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/304241541747179520]
[14:50] <HixWork> that z2 is cheap <£44 http://goo.gl/yATxb
[14:52] <fsphil> Is PBlast a followup to sharp?
[14:53] <mattbrejza> https://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/278903024594862080/photo/1
[14:53] <mattbrejza> wouldnt want blast landing on your head
[14:53] <daveake> wtf
[14:53] <costyn> woa
[14:53] <costyn> looks heavy
[14:53] <costyn> :)
[14:53] <fsphil> for once I'm glad to be 500km away
[14:54] <mattbrejza> no sense of scale though
[14:54] <mattbrejza> probably not that heavy if Al?
[14:55] <costyn> mattbrejza: true, it could be 5cm x 5cm
[14:55] <Babs> Cubesat dimensions normally 100mm around
[14:55] <daveake> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/CubeSat_in_hand.jpg/800px-CubeSat_in_hand.jpg
[14:56] <costyn> Babs: ah, thanks
[14:56] <mattbrejza> well hers the bottom bit next to a beer https://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/301690244527431680/photo/1
[14:57] <fsphil> a universal measurement
[14:57] <fsphil> that's pretty big
[14:57] <daveake> of all 4 dimensions
[14:57] <craag> Or a beer in the case! https://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/303628863316058112/photo/1
[14:58] <fsphil> I'm beginning to think they may have issues
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[15:01] <Babs> If it was 3mm thick all the way and 100mm*100mm I reckon in the region of 300-400g
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[15:05] <craag> They're not flying any of that this time though afaik. Just the sharp platform and the phone in the top of the sharp case.
[15:05] <mattbrejza> isnt that the entire project anyway?
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[15:06] <craag> Well I think the plan is to eventually have the phone in the cubesat case, with it's own radio telemetry.
[15:06] <craag> But attached under sharp for hab launches.
[15:06] <daveake> What are they actually testing this time then? Or is it just practice?
[15:06] <mattbrejza> even so, barely seems a project for 5-8? people to do for a year
[15:06] <craag> Just practice, and testing some code changes for the sharp tracker.
[15:07] <daveake> ok
[15:07] <craag> mattbrejza: I know....
[15:07] <HixWork> sounds like perfect management training
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[15:08] <HixWork> do very little, watch things go wrong, have a meeting to find out lessons learned, apportion blame. go to pub
[15:09] <craag> Still waiting on whether I can piggyback my tracker with theirs.
[15:09] <craag> If so, $$FIZZLE ?
[15:09] <HixWork> that's manager ive worked with, not SHARP team, I don't know them from adam
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[15:29] <griffonbot> @TurinTurambar90: RT @ProjectBlast: BLASTs first full launch will be this Saturday from Dover's Hill, Gloucestershire. Full details at http://t.co/p7kOUjm ... [http://twitter.com/TurinTurambar90/status/304251349284048896]
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[15:37] <HixWork> my hourly has gone walkies,
[15:38] <HixWork> in the github for cusf prun-predictions-dronjob.sh states:
[15:38] <HixWork> REPOROOT="/var/www/hab/predict/"
[15:38] <HixWork> DATADIR="predict/preds"
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[15:39] <HixWork> but REPOROOT on the image shoule be /var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor
[15:40] <HixWork> is this correct as that's tjhe filestrucutre i see?
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[15:46] <HixWork> 0 prediction scenarios found
[15:46] <HixWork> find: `/var/www/hab/predict/predict/preds/*': No such file or directory
[15:46] <HixWork> 0 of them had mtime of more than 14 days
[15:46] <HixWork> Now deleting...
[15:46] <HixWork> find: `/var/www/hab/predict/predict/preds/*': No such file or directory
[15:46] <HixWork> Done deleting.
[15:46] <HixWork> ls: cannot access /var/www/hab/predict/predict/preds/: No such file or directory
[15:46] <HixWork> 0 prediction scenarios remaining
[15:46] <HixWork> surely it should be changed to /var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor
[15:47] <HixWork> ?
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[15:49] <jonsowman> HixWork: yeah, should be /var/www/cu...
[15:49] <jonsowman> if that's where your stuff is
[15:49] <jonsowman> /var/www/hab/predict is where I had it when I was developing the predictor web interface
[15:50] <HixWork> REPOROOT="/var/www/hab/predict/"
[15:50] <HixWork> DATADIR="predict/preds"
[15:50] <HixWork> oops
[15:50] <HixWork> sorry
[15:51] <jonsowman> I forgot I wrote that cron script
[15:51] <jonsowman> I should change that
[15:53] <eroomde> rich wareham?
[15:53] <jonsowman> hmm?
[15:55] <HixWork> I was getting this:
[15:55] <HixWork> 1 prediction scenarios found
[15:55] <HixWork> find: `/var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/preds/*': No such file or directory
[15:55] <HixWork> 0 of them had mtime of more than 14 days
[15:55] <HixWork> Now deleting...
[15:55] <HixWork> find: `/var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/preds/*': No such file or directory
[15:55] <HixWork> Done deleting.
[15:55] <HixWork> 1 prediction scenarios remaining
[15:55] <HixWork> but when i pwd
[15:55] <HixWork> ]# pwd
[15:55] <HixWork> /var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/preds
[15:56] <HixWork> so I think it's just empty
[15:57] <HixWork> so i tried to run:
[15:57] <HixWork> [root@localhost scripts]# ./fetch-run-cronjob.sh
[15:57] <HixWork> Could not locate a dataset for the requested time.
[15:58] <jonsowman> hang on, what are you trying to do?
[15:58] <jonsowman> I thought you were just trying to get the pruning cronjob working?
[15:58] <HixWork> the hourly has lost the flight settings and the predictions are gone
[15:58] <HixWork> the pruning is to clear it no?
[15:59] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Commercial promotion on UKHAS message board"
[15:59] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[16:00] <jonsowman> yes but that's for the standalone predictor
[16:00] <jonsowman> not the hourly
[16:00] <HixWork> oh.
[16:00] <jonsowman> they are seperate things
[16:00] <HixWork> so for the hourly i just need to run ./fetch-run-cronjob.sh
[16:00] <jonsowman> yep
[16:01] <jonsowman> it overwrites its old data
[16:01] <jonsowman> no pruning etc requird :)
[16:01] <HixWork> so do you know why it retunrs the error above
[16:01] <HixWork> Could not locate a dataset for the requested time.
[16:02] <jonsowman> hmm
[16:02] <craag> I wonder what exciting and revolutionary experiment weighs 2000g :P
[16:02] <jonsowman> two bricks
[16:02] <HixWork> a Canon iirc
[16:03] <fsphil> thankfully not a cannon
[16:04] <HixWork> heh
[16:04] <mattbrejza> im sure CH will approve if we point WUSAT to steves bigger than 4ft chutes
[16:06] <craag> lol probably not..
[16:07] <daveake> what a tempting idea ...
[16:07] <mattbrejza> are they on twitter
[16:08] <HixWork> the only thing i can see is th eint hourly..sh where it states # Run the data grabber from now to 160 hours in future
[16:09] <craag> mattbrejza: It appears not, just a facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WarwickUniversitySatellite
[16:10] <mattbrejza> that works too
[16:12] <mattbrejza> so WUSAT are using high power xbee with a high gain antenna on the gorund
[16:12] <mattbrejza> and everyones favourite labview
[16:13] <craag> https://twitter.com/WUSAT_Team
[16:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Joe "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[16:18] <HixWork> could a small drogue chute not be employed to pull out multiple chutes once the atmosphere gets a little thicker and things have stablilised somewhat?
[16:18] <mattbrejza> or just get a 6ft chute :P
[16:18] <mattbrejza> im not really a chute expert though
[16:18] <mattbrejza> thats for someone else to sort out
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[16:18] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[16:19] <HixWork> just thinking that many things use multi chutes
[16:19] <HixWork> and they seem to be deployed by a drogue chute
[16:19] <mattbrejza> yea thats just to help the larger ones deploy
[16:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Commercial promotion on UKHAS message board"
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[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:22] <HixWork> but then again, it's extra complexity and I do believe they should just buy a bigger chute, if they can afford to lift 2kg they can afford to get it down safely too.
[16:22] <jonsowman> ^ true
[16:23] <daveake> The chute is the #1 thing you want to work no questions asked
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[16:23] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Commercial promotion on UKHAS message board"
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw when i told you some months ago about the He liquefication at uni someone said lab grade helium
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> sadly not
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> it turned out today that they generate 95% He
[16:23] <daveake> close enough
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[16:26] <HixWork> I'm still loving the idea of a HAB based JPADS system, that would be ace
[16:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Commercial promotion on UKHAS message board"
[16:33] <eroomde> HixWork: that would be incredibly cool
[16:33] <eroomde> infact
[16:34] <eroomde> i don;t want to get too much into the quagmire of what is an isn't a UAV
[16:35] <eroomde> but, I will offer a nice bottle of vintage champagne to the first person who can get a steered parachute payload to within 300m of a pre-stated landing point from a starting altitude of at least 20km
[16:37] <fsphil> does Yorkshire count as a pre-stated landing point?
[16:37] <HixWork> my line of thinking is that it is not so much a vehicle as it is merely a retardation device, which happens be have the ability to steer...
[16:37] <HixWork> :)
[16:37] <eroomde> gotta be stated to 4dp in decimal degrees, then
[16:37] <daveake> Extra points for *missing* Yorkshire
[16:37] <eroomde> HixWork: yes mine too. I think you'd get away with it
[16:38] <NigeyS> hah guess not phil :P
[16:38] <eroomde> all parachutes have a lift to drag
[16:38] <HixWork> fsphil, did we find out if Yorkshire charge landing fees?
[16:38] <fsphil> worth a try :)
[16:38] <eroomde> and steerable parachute has a slightly better lift-to-drag
[16:38] <fsphil> I've yet to get a bill HixWork
[16:38] <daveake> ditto
[16:38] <HixWork> :D
[16:38] <NigeyS> fsphil, your case should be "pick a tree" should it not? :p
[16:38] <HixWork> oh here we go...
[16:38] <daveake> Steve's flight yesterday looked like it had tree-avoidance steering
[16:38] <HixWork> eroomde, I reckon it would be get-away-able
[16:38] <fsphil> it did, didn't it
[16:39] <fsphil> it certainly went against the prediction, by going in circles
[16:39] <HixWork> Arbourphobia yesterday
[16:39] <eroomde> i just hope the predictor isn't improved to the point of being able to be this accurate before a launch :)
[16:39] <eroomde> we've definitely had flights where the onboard predictor in the car got it that close with the prediction it made at burst
[16:39] <NigeyS> eroomde, never! it only take a few strong gusts to throw things off
[16:39] <fsphil> one more rule: the landing point need to be selected before launch
[16:39] <fsphil> +s
[16:40] <eroomde> yes indeed
[16:40] <eroomde> also to mitigate against this
[16:40] <mattbrejza> and off the predicted path?
[16:41] <eroomde> well, i don't want to make it too stringent as being able to make headway against the wind implies a higher airspeed which implies a higher wing loading which implies generally more KE and chance of something going wrong if it doesn't work
[16:41] <fsphil> that doesn't matter so much
[16:41] <eroomde> i.e. a much smaller lower drag parafoil that might hurt a bit if it came into the side of your head on landing approach
[16:42] <NigeyS> ouch
[16:42] <eroomde> i think it will be a hard enough problem if you submit a point the day before
[16:42] <eroomde> even if it's close to the predicted landing spot
[16:42] <eroomde> you'd probably want to pick a point deliberately in the clear and safe, but somewhere close
[16:43] <HixWork> To be fair if the payload is programmed with a land point before launch, HAB points should be allocated on radius from intended DZ
[16:43] <mattbrejza> i look forward to someone taking you up, but it seems unlikely
[16:43] <daveake> It'd probably need several points so it can choose which one(s) it can manage after burst
[16:43] <eroomde> indeed it does a bit, but it could be fun
[16:44] <eroomde> i would quite like lawrence to have a go
[16:44] <eroomde> daveake: that would be the ideal case as a general hab technique once it's become established
[16:45] <eroomde> but to keep the prize both a bit harder and more interesting and simpler to explain, i'd like it to just be a single landing spot mailed to the list at least 12 hours before the annouced launch time
[16:45] <nick_> Just put a small computer on there with some mapping data and tell it to land at !tree
[16:45] <daveake> It would be easy to get it to Tx the chosen spot
[16:45] <eroomde> or perhaps 12 hours before the eventual landing time
[16:45] <daveake> Well your bottle your rules :)
[16:45] <nick_> (where tree is losely defined to include buildings, etc)
[16:46] <HixWork> and telemetry should ojnly be a2g
[16:46] <daveake> lakes
[16:46] <daveake> roads
[16:46] <eroomde> but yes i think the eventual aim of this if it became established would be to have stuff pick the easiest known-safe, open spot to get too
[16:46] <fsphil> people
[16:46] <daveake> cars
[16:46] <daveake> pylons
[16:46] <eroomde> away from roads, water, forests, built up areas etc
[16:46] <daveake> power lines
[16:46] <eroomde> yep exactly
[16:46] <HixWork> home address, or fish and chip shop.
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> the linksprite camera module is a nightmare to implement
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately I won't fly it
[16:47] <HixWork> would it be a good time to advertise Hix[tm]Steerachute?
[16:47] <HixWork> ;p
[16:47] <daveake> I dream of a launch day which goes ... Launch - BBQ - watch images - watch flight land next to you
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> I just bought it to experiment with it
[16:47] <fsphil> can't be that bad Lunar_Lander, I know a few people who are using it
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, xD
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yea
[16:47] <eroomde> yep, best to fight firmware battles once the basic tracker has had a couple of flights to prove itself. good idea.
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[16:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[16:49] <daveake> I do want to do an Apollo capsule with 3 chutes sometime
[16:49] <daveake> < 2kg though
[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> btw the Orion was tested in an Apollo 15 style landing to prove that it can land with 2 chutes safely
[16:49] <daveake> so many ideas so few launch weekends :p
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> was last week or so
[16:50] <NigeyS> daveake, dont fear summer will be here....soon....maybe..possibly.....
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[16:51] <fsphil> just not in the UK
[16:51] <daveake> LL Yes I read somewhere they only needed 2 the 3rd was a backup
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> btw did I tell you my latest stupidiest champion story?
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:51] <daveake> Dunno you have so many :p
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:52] <daveake> j/k :)
[16:52] <fsphil> when human beings are involved, it's always nice to have a backup
[16:52] <fsphil> humans are squishy and delicate
[16:52] <daveake> o I keep telling the wife
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> last weekend my Arduino Uno ran with an BMP085, DS18B20, TEMT6000 and an SD card
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> and that ran with four alkaline batteries for 70 hours
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> I only forgot one thing
[16:52] <daveake> ok and?
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> I set the counter in the datastring as an int
[16:52] <daveake> GPS?
[16:52] <daveake> Yeah that's easy
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> recording every 5 seconds, it overflowed
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> that isn't for the balloon though
[16:53] <daveake> I ran the Pi tracker well into 6 digits for the counter
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> that is supposed to be a weather station spinoff
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS that I have is fixed to the tracker board :)
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> and then yesterday I changed that to an unsigned long, let it run to record every second and it recorded some 64000 lines when the batteries hit 4.2 V and a red light turned on that was supposed to turn on if the software couldn't access the SD card
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose that was because of low power
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[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> now that is strange
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> if I add the number of lines to the start time I get a somewhat earlier time than I recalled
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> hm
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[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> I guess you can't really trust the arduino timing as such
[16:57] <fsphil> unless your driving your time from an interrupt, it won't be accurate
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:58] <eroomde> re: uav parachute stuff, looking at the UK regulation, while on the face of it a polystyrene box in the air would break every single one of the rules, we already have a specific exemption from those rules to launch a hab in the first place
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> there was a simple delay(1000) at the end
[16:58] <fsphil> that'll be delay + your code + overhead
[16:59] <eroomde> any UAV that does *not* have sense-and-avoid must *not* fly:
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:59] <HixWork> seems crazy that something which iomproves safety is exempt froman exemption
[16:59] <daveake> Yep. Best if it's not a UAV
[16:59] <eroomde> in controlled airspace, in any aerodrome traffic zone, beyond visual range, at night, over or within 150m from any congested area of city, town, or settlement, with 50m of any person or vehicle etc
[16:59] <nick_> Is a box a vehicle?
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> that is why my weather station gets one of Anthony's proven GPS
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:59] <eroomde> the list goes on
[17:00] <eroomde> and habs do all of those things
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I will try out TinyGPS this time as I don't need the position and so on
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> but today we talked about making a filler and the rigging
[17:03] <HixWork> so what if the payload cut away the steering chute at a predefined alt
[17:03] <eroomde> that's fine
[17:03] <HixWork> i reckon
[17:03] <HixWork> as when it lands, it is just a dumb box witha retatrdation device
[17:04] <daveake> What height? If low enough to still be able to hit the landing spot +/- 50m say, then that would work
[17:04] <HixWork> appropriate that i typo that word :)
[17:04] <daveake> :)
[17:04] <HixWork> i think 1 OS grid sq so 1km^2
[17:04] <eroomde> i was thinking about 250m radius (eg within a large field) from a relatively high altitude
[17:04] <eroomde> eg 20km
[17:05] <eroomde> i say this because i know that the dealing with thinner atmospheres is part of the tricky bit
[17:05] <eroomde> going from 1000m is sort of ardupilot territory
[17:05] <daveake> it is
[17:06] <eroomde> and the ardupilot might still work of course
[17:06] <eroomde> but i think the model dynamics and flying characteristics migt be different at 20km than at 1km
[17:06] <eroomde> and that that's quite an interesting problem to try and solve
[17:06] <daveake> yes and yes
[17:06] <HixWork> so what is the general concencus on a steering chute that cuts away - doable or breaching regs?
[17:06] <craag> mattbrejza: I've got stuck on some 3yp and so won't be up in mountbatten later, would sometime tomorrow afternoon work?
[17:06] <nick_> I saw a video demo of ardupilot following a guy walking around.
[17:07] <HixWork> Ardustalker
[17:07] <nick_> In pretty high winds it was quite cool that it could follow
[17:07] <nick_> Although I don't know what flight time it could achieve.
[17:07] <mattbrejza> craag: sure, any time after 12 and before 5
[17:07] <nick_> Stalking's all well and good, but you want to stalk people more than 5 mins
[17:08] <HixWork> what is the reg on kites and altitude briefly?
[17:08] <craag> mattbrejza: Great, around 3 then.
[17:08] <mattbrejza> ok :)
[17:08] <HixWork> was thinking of using a kite as a tesp platform for trascker and GSM board
[17:08] <craag> Thanks!
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> but today we talked about making a filler and the rigging
[17:09] <daveake> twice?
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea well I had to find out the neck diameter first that is why I asked here and then I could go back to give the diameter
[17:10] <eroomde> HixWork: when you say a steering chute that cuts away, you mean it detcahes from the balloon line at, say, 20km (because that's the min alt limit) and then comes down?
[17:10] <eroomde> or detaches from a parachute part of the way during descent, having already been descending?
[17:11] <HixWork> i meant the chute cuts away before landing, so it arrives dumb
[17:12] <eroomde> ballistic payload?
[17:12] <HixWork> if the regs wouldn't let it land as an intelligent box.
[17:12] <HixWork> no - normal chute as backup
[17:12] <eroomde> i'd probably want to constrain the vertical velocity a bit
[17:12] <eroomde> ah ok
[17:12] <HixWork> :D
[17:12] <HixWork> I'm not that mac-cap
[17:12] <eroomde> do the regs affect the landing specifically? I'm not sure they do
[17:12] <HixWork> mad-cap even
[17:13] <eroomde> i think they pertain to use of airspace above 400ft AGL
[17:13] <HixWork> yeah, that's the problem
[17:13] <HixWork> but really how likely is it to be an issue?
[17:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Nicole Blake "[UKHAS] Re: Twin parachutes on payload"
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[17:13] <HixWork> it's just falling like a dumb old hab eh.....
[17:13] <craag> ^^ LOL
[17:14] <craag> (the email)
[17:14] <jonsowman> craag: :| :| :|
[17:14] <eroomde> but i'm sort of arguing that balloon lofted parachute payloads are exempt from them anyway by definition, becaause we are specifically exmpted to do them where they would otherwise fall foul of almost every UAV reg
[17:15] <HixWork> ah, ok I interpreted it as we would risk our exemption
[17:15] <HixWork> WIN!!!!
[17:15] <eroomde> i'd put in some other housekeeping rules, like maybe <= 1.5kg at the balloon neck and landing vertical descent rate <5m/s
[17:16] <HixWork> sure - it still has to be safe, that's Rule 1,2,&3
[17:16] <daveake> lol
[17:16] <HixWork> Right, time to leave.
[17:16] <daveake> (the email)
[17:17] <HixWork> But before I go - don't forget to check my blog for the Hix[tm]Steerachute ;p
[17:17] <HixWork> available soon and reasonably priced
[17:17] <HixWork> joking
[17:17] <HixWork> bbl guys
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[17:18] <eroomde> i beleive jgrahamc wanted to have a go with the parafoils tuff aswell
[17:19] <eroomde> i might also enter it just to do a hab again and because it's cool, but i wouldn't be allowed to win the prize (not saying i would anyway)
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[17:31] <arko> morning
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[17:32] <arko> aloha
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[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, do you remember how you recommended me to use a X-shaped ground plane?
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[17:58] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[18:04] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Twin parachutes on payload"
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[18:11] Action: Hix is beginnning to like the 10m^2 of ripstop parachute nylon he bought a good while back
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[18:12] <Hix> & the fact that he has a mother who is a sewing machine godess
[18:12] <arko> nice
[18:13] <arko> do many people use technora?
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, ?
[18:28] <fsphil> I remember everything Lunar_Lander
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[18:29] <fsphil> at least I think I do
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> well what I wanted to ask is
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> does the X have to be outside the payload box or can it be on the inside of the floor?
[18:31] <fsphil> doesn't matter
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> what I can say is that we have a team talk on Friday
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[18:48] <arko> it's damn windy outside here
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[18:52] <Hix> there's a distinct lack of chute canopy design info on the web, think it's deeemed bad form to let peeps try and make their owm /kill themselves in the chuting community :)
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[18:54] <arko> on that subject, eroomde: http://www.planetaryprobe.org/sessionfiles/session6a/presentations/5_adler_supersonic_decel.pdf
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTaXI9LUugc sort of on topic - It contains helicopters.
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[19:16] <Hix> if I change the home directory in Apache on CentOS do I need to restart apache? If so how?
[19:16] <Hix> trying a new build of the hourly
[19:18] <mfa298> Hix: I assume you mean your updating the DocumetRoot
[19:18] <mfa298> in which case "/etc/init.d/httpd graceful" should restart it
[19:18] <Hix> yes - and thank you
[19:19] <mfa298> If you wanted to keep multiple things available it's possible to do clever things with Alias lines.
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> Evening Hix
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[19:20] <arko> anyone know a good helium cost calculator?
[19:20] <Hix> hey chrisstubbs
[19:20] <arko> i could always call Air&Gas
[19:20] <daveake> One with lots of digits
[19:20] <fsphil> how much you have + 20%
[19:20] <fsphil> seriously though, it seems variable depending on who you buy it from
[19:20] <fsphil> and the day of the week
[19:22] <arko> hmm
[19:22] <arko> i need 4646L
[19:23] <arko> or 4.65m3
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> thats a fair bit
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> 1000g?
[19:24] <arko> 1200g
[19:24] <arko> i just want a ballpark really
[19:24] <arko> $100, $200,, etc
[19:26] <daveake> Well, here that would be a BOC 9.1m3 cylinder at $240
[19:26] <arko> ok, sounds about right
[19:26] <daveake> Too much for a 3.6m3 which would be $150
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> the price of helium makes me so so sad
[19:28] <chrisstubbs> Is UPU about?
[19:28] <arko> yeah, helium is stupid expensive
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> Went to pick up my RMF22 from the post office today and the stupid woman had a massive moan about the tracking siticker being inside the plastic sleeving
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> they are so hopeless there
[19:29] <arko> >_>
[19:30] <chrisstubbs> ooo atmel have dispatched my TQFP ATmega328's :)
[19:31] <daveake> Yeah our postie made the same moan
[19:31] <daveake> I had to produce a sharp knife
[19:31] <fsphil> TQFP FTW
[19:32] <chrisstubbs> but i did get a reduced chocolate cake for 20p in the coop while i was getting the parcel
[19:32] <fsphil> reduced chocolate?
[19:33] <fsphil> that's no fun
[19:33] <chrisstubbs> hahah
[19:37] <Hix> :D
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> Time for a test run of the new iron, just got to decide if i want to solder the RFM22 onto the breakout, or just onto some wires so i can remove it and drop it on my own PCB later
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[19:41] <Hix> mfa298: is this an error or just a quirk? [warn] NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
[19:42] <Hix> when i run /etc/init.d/httpd graceful
[19:42] <mfa298> it's a warning
[19:42] <mfa298> you should be ok ignoring it.
[19:43] <Hix> ok
[19:43] <mfa298> it's part of setting up virtual websites
[19:43] <mfa298> You could probably find that line and comment it out in the config.
[19:45] <Hix> so i've altered the grabdata-cronjob and the hourly-predictions... updated the scenario-template , run fetch-run-cronjob
[19:46] <jonsowman> all working?
[19:46] <Hix> which returns "Could not locate a dataset for the requested time."
[19:46] <Hix> , which apparently is a known bug
[19:46] <Hix> yet the predictor http://flight-predictor.widerimage.co.uk/ is still blank
[19:46] <Hix> #lost
[19:47] <Hix> jonsowman: nope
[19:47] <Hix> :/
[19:47] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:47] <Hix> grrr morelike
[19:48] <arko> did you make the data and new directory?
[19:48] <arko> or was that the hourly only
[19:49] <jonsowman> Hix: where did you clone from?
[19:49] <arko> i've had days where the noaa server just felt like not giving data
[19:49] <Hix> sec
[19:49] <jonsowman> yes, the servers are like that
[19:49] <Hix> jonsowman: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction/archive/master.zip
[19:49] <mfa298> Hix: is this still installed in /opt/cusf-landing-prediction
[19:49] <jonsowman> yeah that's ok
[19:50] <Hix> I've installed in /opt/home and updated the 2 crons and the apache working dir to this
[19:50] <mfa298> you might need to edit some of the files in the scripts folder
[19:51] <mfa298> I thnk by default fetch-run-cronjob.sh will try to run things in /opt/cusf-landing-prediction/scripts
[19:54] <Hix> right, missted fetch-run-croinjob.sh
[19:54] <Hix> fingers crossed
[19:54] <arko> oh yeah, hardcoded paths
[19:54] <mfa298> I think you'll need to change a few files in the scripts folder
[19:54] <mfa298> I've not checked anything else much yet.
[19:54] <jonsowman> sorry :P
[19:55] <Upu> here now chrisstubbs
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> Think im good now UPU, just about to solder up the RFM
[19:57] <Hix> going through everything in scripts to look for anything involving /opt :)
[19:57] <Upu> ok
[19:58] <Upu> flux :)
[19:58] <Hix> hows the new tool chrisstubbs
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> just had another go at soldering up some spare LCD borns
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> *boards, works very well
[19:58] <mfa298> Hix: you might also want to look for cusf-landing-prediction
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> my lead free solder is crapping things up a bit though :(
[19:58] <Hix> ok ta
[19:58] <Hix> andthing that's a file locn basically :)
[19:59] <mfa298> At some point I might have a go at setting up the hourly on a different server and sort out the paths (2nd thing I'd like to add is being able to have several different launch profiles on one hourly)
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> UPU i am tempted to just solder some cat5 cables onto it for debugging, so i can desolder them and drop it onto my own board after
[20:01] <Hix> bugger something turned the prompt to > and now nothing works - escape plan?
[20:01] <Upu> You can do it but you may end up breaking the pads
[20:02] <Hix> sorted ` did it somehow
[20:02] <chrisstubbs> Hmm ok i think i will put it on the brakout, then do a 2 man 4 soldering iron job if i decide to take it off
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[20:02] <chrisstubbs> to heat all the pads evenly and slide it off
[20:03] <Upu> they are hard to get off
[20:03] <Upu> you can hot air them but its tricky
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> yeah looking at the size i can see what you mean about loading it with solder to get it off, it might spread accross to the components on one side
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> .8mm tip job for this i think
[20:05] <Hix> found a cheeky :w in one of the .sh files. still getting the could not locate a dataset issue though
[20:05] <Hix> main thing is the predictor isnt showing lat long or alt which the jsonm file should dictate no?
[20:06] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Vortex flight 3 - 22nd January 2013"
[20:06] <Hix> or will it not do that until it grabs a new dataset?
[20:13] Action: Hix gives up. bbl
[20:13] <x-f> Hix, it won't - it takes that information from /web/data/manifest.json, which is generated after all predictions are done
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[20:25] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "Re: [UKHAS] Commercial promotion on UKHAS message board"
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[20:34] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
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[20:40] <Hix> I think the "bug" is stopping everything working
[20:41] <Hix> constantly returning the same error with cannot get the data
[20:44] <mfa298> Hix are you still trying to write data to /opt/landing-prediction-data/ or have you changed that as well
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[20:46] <Hix> mfa298: OUTPUTDIR=${ROOT}/home/web/hourly-predictions
[20:47] <Hix> in hourly-predictions-cronjob.sh
[20:47] <mfa298> this is stuff in grabdata-cronjob.sh
[20:48] <Hix> in grab... there is GETDATA=${ROOT}/home/pydap/get_wind_data.py
[20:48] <mfa298> the default setup has two folders: cusf-landing-prediction holds the predictor, landing-prediction-data has the downloaded gfs data
[20:49] <mfa298> The line im wondering about it WORKINGDIR
[20:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Vander Houwen "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[20:52] <Hix> mfa298: DocumentRoot "/opt/home/web/hourly-predictions"
[20:52] <Hix> in /etc/httpd/conf
[20:53] <mfa298> Hix: sorry I meant the WORKINGDIR= line in grabdata-cronjob.sh
[20:53] <Hix> hey on the bright side - i'm very familiar with the file structure of it all now
[20:53] <Hix> ok i'll look
[20:54] <mfa298> that's where it stores the gfs data so if you've changed that you'll need to create some folders
[20:54] <Hix> # The get data script itself
[20:54] <Hix> GETDATA=${ROOT}/home/pydap/get_wind_data.py
[20:54] <Hix> # Where to run the script
[20:54] <Hix> WORKINGDIR=${ROOT}/landing-prediction-data/
[20:55] <mfa298> ok, so that's still on the default path.
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[20:55] <mfa298> do you still have /opt/landing-prediction-data and does it contain two folders logs and gfs ?
[20:56] <Hix> yes and yes
[20:56] <Hix> oh and yes :)
[20:58] <mfa298> hopefully the /opt/landing-prediction-data/logs folder will have logs files from when it's run last - which might help determine whats going wrong.
[20:58] <mfa298> it could also be worth running ./scripts/grabdata-cronjob.sh manually and see how long it runs and if it creates data/logs in those folders.
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[21:01] <Hix> logs have this:
[21:01] <Hix> INFO: Looking for latest dataset which covers Wed Feb 20 20:37:37 2013
[21:02] <Hix> and I've been running it manually all night
[21:03] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[21:03] <mfa298> is that all the logs contain ?
[21:03] <Hix> yup.
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[21:04] <mfa298> hmmm, I wonder if you can connect out properly from your vm
[21:05] <mfa298> my next line is: INFO: Found good dataset at http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20130220/gfs_12z.
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[21:06] <mfa298> might be interesting to see what happens if you try:
[21:06] <mfa298> GET -dS http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20130220/gfs_12z
[21:08] <Hix> bingo - out is screwed
[21:09] <Hix> GET http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20130220/gfs_12z --> 500 Can't connect to nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090 (Bad hostname 'nomads.ncep.noaa.gov')
[21:09] <Hix> NAT issue?
[21:09] <mfa298> or dns
[21:09] <mfa298> might be worth checking your /etc/resolve.conf
[21:10] <Hix> empty
[21:10] <mfa298> oop, should be resolv.conf (no e)
[21:10] <mfa298> could also try "ping -n 212.58.246.95" to check nat
[21:11] <Hix> # Generated by NetworkManager
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[21:11] <Hix> domain lan
[21:11] <Hix> search lan
[21:11] <Hix> nameserver 192.168.1.254
[21:11] <mfa298> that's probably a reasonable config for that (assuming your router is 192.168.1.254)
[21:12] <Hix> [root@localhost scripts]# ping -n 212.58.246.95
[21:12] <Hix> PING 212.58.246.95 (212.58.246.95) 56(84) bytes of data.
[21:12] <Hix> 64 bytes from 212.58.246.95: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=20.3 ms
[21:12] <Hix> 64 bytes from 212.58.246.95: icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=19.8 ms
[21:12] <Hix> 64 bytes from 212.58.246.95: icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=19.5 ms
[21:12] <Hix> 64 bytes from 212.58.246.95: icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=19.5 ms
[21:12] <Hix> ad infinitum
[21:13] <Hix> how to stop it though
[21:13] <mfa298> that suggests the nat is working.
[21:13] <mfa298> control c
[21:14] <Hix> ta
[21:14] <mfa298> next one I'd probably try is "ping www.bbc.co.uk"
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[21:14] <Hix> 18.7ms - good
[21:15] <mfa298> if things are working you should get the same result as before
[21:15] <Hix> yeah
[21:15] <Hix> so dns is good too
[21:15] <mfa298> I wonder if it's just something thats stopping you connecting out on port 9090
[21:16] <Hix> its on w2k8 so if i open that in firewall then try again
[21:16] <mfa298> if it's in a vm then the host firewall probably isn't going to affect it.
[21:17] <Hix> oh ok now not sure then
[21:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Twin parachutes on payload"
[21:20] <Hix> nope- opened 9090 in 2k8 and same result from the noaa9090
[21:20] <Hix> gonna try vm reboot
[21:21] <mfa298> often a good option when you cant find an obvious cause
[21:21] <Hix> :D
[21:21] <Hix> IT std
[21:22] <mfa298> although it's often seen as more of a last resort on linux/unix
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[21:22] <Hix> the really weird thing is even a ctrl F5 on the hourly public url worked whilst it was rebooting
[21:23] <mfa298> the httpd process will be running some of the time the server is shutting down
[21:24] <Hix> ah ok
[21:24] <mfa298> in linux you tend to lose access to the terminal first and get it back once everything else is up.
[21:25] <Hix> well the reboot didnt work
[21:25] <Hix> GET failed on 9090 again
[21:25] <mfa298> on 2k8 in a command prompt can you still run telnet ?
[21:26] <Hix> nope, but think i have putty
[21:26] <Hix> sec
[21:26] <mfa298> you might need to find some other options for putty for the test I'm thinking of - I'm just having a look
[21:26] <Hix> i have putty on w2k8
[21:27] <Hix> ok
[21:27] <mfa298> I was going to suggest trying to connect to that url with putty, but in my tests the window closes too quickly to see any response codes
[21:28] <Hix> powershell?
[21:29] <mfa298> I'm afraid I don't know powershell, I'm a perl person instead :p
[21:29] <Hix> I think it's one of those that just needs to be left.
[21:30] <mfa298> I've got some level of test I think.
[21:30] <Hix> k
[21:31] <mfa298> If you set the type to telnet, Host: nomads.ncep.noaa.gov, Port: 9090 and Close window on exit: Never
[21:31] <mfa298> hopefully a putty window will open and you can enter:
[21:31] <mfa298> GET http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20130220/gfs_12z
[21:31] <mfa298> and press enter a couple of times.
[21:31] <mfa298> I get back a few lines of which the first is:
[21:31] <mfa298> HTTP/1.1 505 HTTP Version Not Supported
[21:32] <Hix> was gonna say about close window never, but though of teaching and sucking eggs :P
[21:32] <mfa298> which at least shows I've talked to the server
[21:33] <mfa298> that was the option I was trying to find, I didn't think it was on the first page so couldn't find it
[21:34] <Hix> apparently that server doesn't exits
[21:34] <Hix> exist
[21:34] <mfa298> that would suggest its something further up the chain thats blocking it then
[21:34] <Hix> sharks?
[21:34] <mfa298> could be worth a similar check from some other machine
[21:35] <mfa298> that way you get a better idea if it's the 2k8 machine or the router/provider
[21:35] <Hix> looks like router is blocking out on 9090
[21:35] <Hix> connected here and it worked
[21:36] <Hix> back in a min
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[21:41] <Hix> k back
[21:43] <Hix> looks like o2 router is blocking it, intrusion detection shows a few flags that weren't there yesterday, cant edit it's firewall either
[21:44] <mfa298> time to get a better router / provider :p
[21:44] <fsphil> O2 are pretty poor in a lot of ways :)
[21:44] <fsphil> only advantage is their coverage, here anyway
[21:45] <Hix> yup - well I think that draws an end to this evenings session of headbutting a wall :)
[21:45] <Hix> my advantage is their static IP which is not actually static but has been for 3 years
[21:45] <Hix> fools
[21:45] <mfa298> at least we've shown it's not a silly mistake on the vm level
[21:45] <Hix> and i;ve learned a lot :)
[21:46] <Hix> and thank you for all the help
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[21:46] <Hix> gotta be worth a pint after this years conf :)
[21:46] <mfa298> Hix: there's plenty of providers that will give you a (or more) real static ips
[21:46] Action: fsphil has 16 v4 addresses
[21:46] Action: fsphil uses two of them
[21:46] <nigelvh> Can I have a few?
[21:46] <Upu> I got 8
[21:47] <nigelvh> I've just got one static presently.
[21:47] <mfa298> fsphil: thats just greedy,
[21:47] <Hix> only really ned one
[21:47] <Upu> and 2^56 IPV6's
[21:47] Action: mfa298 has a /29
[21:47] <mfa298> and a /48 of V6
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[21:47] <mfa298> and I think I'm using a massive 3 /64's of that v6
[21:48] <fsphil> and a /64 v6
[21:48] <arko> quick question,dont mean to detrack here, but do you guys usually do balloon grade He? or welding?
[21:48] <Upu> We use H2 arko
[21:48] <arko> crazy kids!
[21:48] <Upu> but I understand balloon gas is "watered" down anyway
[21:48] <Hix> welding He?
[21:48] <fsphil> balloon gas for helium
[21:48] <arko> not welding, i forget
[21:48] <Upu> I wouldn't use high purity He
[21:49] <fsphil> it's not pure
[21:49] <russss> what kind of welding uses helium?
[21:49] <russss> :P
[21:49] <arko> there isn't one
[21:49] <arko> i messed up
[21:49] <Hix> helium balloon sealing
[21:49] <arko> it's like lab grade
[21:49] <Hix> heh
[21:49] <Upu> just "balloon gas"
[21:49] <arko> so most people use balloon gas?
[21:49] <fsphil> it would be a bit of a waste to use the pure stuff
[21:49] <arko> because that stuff is not very pure
[21:49] <arko> ok
[21:49] <Upu> everyone apart from that dude who owned a oil well
[21:49] <arko> yeah i thought so
[21:49] <arko> lol
[21:49] <Upu> arko
[21:49] <Upu> use H2
[21:49] <fsphil> if you need pure helium, may as well make the leap to hydrogen
[21:49] <Hix> right off to the real world, cheeers mfa298 you are owed units of beer from me :)
[21:50] <Hix> night guys
[21:50] <fsphil> nite Hix
[21:50] <Upu> nn Hix
[21:50] <Upu> Arko https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/Funny/tumblr_m5sy3o7Cia1rt8sgdo1_1280.jpg
[21:50] <mfa298> nite, no problem with the help
[21:50] <Upu> link is rude
[21:50] <Upu> words
[21:50] <arko> Upu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Hindenburg_burning.jpg/260px-Hindenburg_burning.jpg
[21:51] <arko> think about the HABmanity
[21:52] <Upu> well if you paint your balloon in Thermite then thats what happens
[21:52] <arko> heh
[21:52] <arko> im too chicken to use the H
[21:53] <fsphil> it can only explode once
[21:53] <nigelvh> I think I'll probably use H2 for my next launch, whenever that happens.
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> the shock in the bloke at BOCs voice put me off when i told him i was planning on just using a valve + hose barb, no regulator
[21:53] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen?s[]=hydrogen
[21:53] <fsphil> you definitely need a regulator
[21:53] <Upu> Also ARHAB have alot of data on H2
[21:53] <Upu> hell yeah you need a regulator
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> probably, bat far too much money at the moment
[21:54] <fsphil> they are expensive, but pay for themselves after a few launches
[21:54] <Upu> don't use H2 with out a regulator Chris
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> dont worry i wont!
[21:54] <fsphil> also you don't die
[21:55] <Upu> yes this is a bonus
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[21:55] <arko> why would you die if you dont use it without one?
[21:55] <Upu> 200 bar of highly explosive gas with no control on it
[21:56] <fsphil> you want it released slowly
[21:56] <arko> oh duh!
[21:56] <fsphil> it can ignite if released into air quickly enough
[21:56] <arko> woah f that noise
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[21:56] <arko> yeah, im sticking with He this time around
[21:56] <arko> next time I'll do a small balloon with H
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[21:57] <fsphil> I can't put a trailer on my car, gonna have to put it in the boot :/
[21:58] <arko> oh you mean trunk
[21:58] <arko> haha
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> evening Upu
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> do you have a moment?
[21:58] Action: mfa298 thought a trunk was what an elephant has
[21:58] <Upu> actually just going to walk the dog but I'll be back in 10 Lunar will chat then
[21:58] Action: arko thought you wear boots
[21:59] <fsphil> das boot
[22:00] <fsphil> not sure why either name is used
[22:01] <fsphil> "... in South Asia, where it is usually called a dickie"
[22:01] <nigelvh> Rear Storage Compartment
[22:01] <arko> well thats just silly
[22:01] <arko> nigelvh: too obvious
[22:01] <nigelvh> Aft Containment Area
[22:02] <fsphil> rubbish hider area
[22:02] <nigelvh> Body Transport Locale
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[22:14] <Upu> back now Lunar_Lander
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> wb
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> earlier we discussed making a filler at Uni
[22:15] <Upu> ok
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> and friday there will be a team discussion on how to make the rigging
[22:19] <Upu> you already ?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes why?
[22:20] <Upu> just asking :)
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> do you have experience with spherachutes parachutes?
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> i am asking because you have to imagine that the strings from it form four loops
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought about it a long time how to attach the payload to that
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[22:23] <Upu> ok
[22:23] <Upu> this is how I do i
[22:23] <Upu> it
[22:23] <Upu> roll out 2 pieces of string one 11 meters one 21 meters
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> ok, normal nylon cord as Steve sells it?
[22:23] <Upu> at one end of each one make a alpine butterfly not
[22:23] <Upu> knot
[22:23] <Upu> yes
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> OK, knot like in the Wiki
[22:24] <Upu> take 10 meter one, loop it under the attachment at the top of the parachute and through the loop the Alpine knot has
[22:24] <Upu> pull it all through
[22:25] <Upu> the free end attach to the balloon
[22:25] <Upu> now take 20 meter one, loop it under the attachment at the bottom of the parachute and through the loop the Alpine knot has
[22:25] <Upu> pull it all through and the other end attach to your parachute
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> with the attachment you mean the cords that are in the top hole of the parachute?
[22:26] <Upu> yep
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> so the first rope
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> I call it the balloon rope
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> it sort of joins the payload rope at that place?
[22:26] <Upu> [22:25] <Upu> pull it all through and the other end attach to your parachute <- I meant payload
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> what about the risers that the chute has?
[22:27] <Upu> so the payload end of the 20 meter bit
[22:27] <Upu> do another alpine
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:28] <Upu> you can run a key ring through it (http://www.woodworkscraftsupplies.co.uk/images/keyring%20split%20ring.jpg)
[22:28] <Upu> and then run that through your payload loops
[22:28] <Upu> or you can do the other knot on the wiki
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> so that last alpine gets attached to the keyring for example and that to the payload?
[22:30] <Upu> yep can do
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:31] <Upu> you may want to put further knots in there as well to tie stuff off
[22:31] <Upu> and tape them all up
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> but once again
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> the risers of the chute itself, how get they attached?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> or did I miss that?
[22:31] <Upu> have you got the parachute
[22:31] <Upu> ?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> at the lab
[22:31] <Upu> have you seen it ?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:32] <Upu> I don't get the question then ?
[22:32] <Upu> risers are attached to the chute
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> like http://spherachutes.com/images/shrouds.jpg
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> this is the thing that I can see
[22:32] <Upu> get
[22:32] <Upu> yep
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and these cords are in loops so to speak
[22:32] <Upu> so the cord goes through the loop at the bottom
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> http://spherachutes.com/images/knot.jpg
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> through that one?
[22:33] <Upu> yep
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> when I unpacked it, I opened that knot and got four individual loops
[22:35] Action: Upu pats lunar
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> and that is for a normal ascent
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> now we have to get the cutdown in
[22:37] <Upu> right I'm off night all
[22:37] <arko> night!
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night Upu and thank you very much!
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[23:42] <griffonbot> @ProjectBlast: Now using the NEW Monte Carlo Predictor from @unisouthampton - http://t.co/lpCtrKHl8N #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/304375543984451584]
[23:45] <griffonbot> @ProjectBlast: Now using the NEW Monte Carlo Predictor from @unisouthampton - http://t.co/lpCtrKHl8N #UKHAS http://t.co/iGmxowdY9e [http://twitter.com/ProjectBlast/status/304376245603430400]
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 21 2013