highaltitude.log.20130206

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[00:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "[UKHAS] Old dl-fldigi support discontinued. Please read if you're
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[00:51] <SpeedEvil> ah, the smell of electrolyte...
[00:51] Action: SpeedEvil has the windows open after his laptop PSU vented
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[02:22] <meatmanek> SpeedEvil: I've only had a few electrolytic caps explode
[02:22] <meatmanek> most of them were my fault
[02:23] <SpeedEvil> this was sorta, but not really
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[02:24] <SpeedEvil> I noticed a couple of weeks back that the laptop PSU was getting a little warmer than normal
[02:24] <SpeedEvil> I should have opened it up at that time
[02:25] <SpeedEvil> tonight the ups made its overload noise, and there was a nasty smell
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[03:06] <arko> uggg
[03:06] <arko> orbital mechanics is hard :(
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[03:20] <SpeedEvil> hoh man, is it hard.
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[08:04] <nigelvh> Evening KT5TK
[08:05] <KT5TK> Hi nigelvh.
[08:05] <nigelvh> How's things?
[08:05] <KT5TK> Well, not geting any further with the Si4464
[08:06] <SamSilver> very low altitude rocket http://www.gizmag.com/rocket-motorcycle-brittain-ebay-sale/26017/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=50b1a6efb8-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
[08:06] <nigelvh> No?
[08:06] <KT5TK> Submitted a request to Silabs customer support
[08:06] <KT5TK> let's see...
[08:06] <nigelvh> Couldn't get it to respond with sensible data?
[08:07] <KT5TK> well the chip id works fine
[08:07] <KT5TK> but I can't get past power up
[08:07] <nigelvh> Hmm
[08:08] <KT5TK> Not sure if I need to upload some patch or even the whole firmware
[08:08] <nigelvh> That might be an explanation. Though that would be rather odd.
[08:09] <KT5TK> at least there is some function for patch uploading
[08:09] <nigelvh> True, though in theory a simpler device wouldn't need it.
[08:10] <KT5TK> well, the Si4464 isn't really a simple chip anymore. It has its own microcontroller
[08:10] <nigelvh> Yes
[08:11] <KT5TK> You never know where Digikey got the chips from
[08:11] <costyn_> SamSilver: that thing is nuts... how do you even control that?
[08:11] <nigelvh> True, they may not have a good firmware
[08:12] <SamSilver> costyn_: say a quick hail mary and hit start
[08:13] Nick change: costyn_ -> costyn
[08:14] <costyn> but but... reaching 600 km/h in 400 meters? how many G's is that? that's ridiculous
[08:14] <nosebleedkt> Hi everybody !
[08:20] <SamSilver> costyn: i am looking for video of it
[08:20] <Maxell> hello
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> did I loose some new mission pictures ?
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> :D
[08:24] <SamSilver> costyn: Does not seem to be any video of it - I am having my doudts
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[08:43] <costyn> SamSilver: it does seem doubtful
[08:55] <SamSilver> later
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[09:05] <costyn> UpuWork: you can see why a shorter sma sma cable would be nice: http://i.imgur.com/4vLbEty.jpg
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[09:07] <UpuWork> lol yes
[09:07] <UpuWork> they are on order
[09:07] <UpuWork> well shpped
[09:07] <UpuWork> shipped
[09:08] <costyn> UpuWork: ah good
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[09:11] <costyn> UpuWork: what's the best way to test if the habamp is working? we don't notice any signal improvement when we turn on the 5v
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[09:11] <UpuWork> should see an increase on the SDR
[09:11] <UpuWork> i.e you have to turn the contrast down a bit
[09:12] <costyn> ok
[09:14] <fsphil> ack, I forgot to order an sma socket
[09:14] <Maxell> UpuWork: yeah, one problem, it's not already -50 dB or someting
[09:14] <Maxell> and stays the same when plugged in.
[09:14] <Maxell> It's even blocking signal...
[09:15] <costyn> UpuWork: Maxell and I were testing our unit last night and not seeing expected results
[09:16] <fsphil> applying power should make a big difference
[09:16] <fsphil> although I've not used it with the rtl-sdr yet
[09:17] <fsphil> is there an antenna plugged into that?
[09:17] <costyn> fsphil: we used bits of wire as simple antenna's, but nothing proper no
[09:17] <Maxell> gqrx only showed decreased signal strenght when using the habamp
[09:17] <fsphil> that should still be enough
[09:17] <Maxell> I think I broke it
[09:21] <fsphil> they seem like difficult things to break
[09:23] <costyn> fsphil: what about reversing polarity by mistake?
[09:23] <fsphil> that may kill the amp. I'm not sure what its tolerance is
[09:23] <UpuWork> hmm
[09:23] <UpuWork> if you reversed the polarity you'll blow the amp
[09:24] <UpuWork> is it getting hot ?
[09:24] <UpuWork> if its working the moment you apply power you'll notice it
[09:25] <UpuWork> if it gets hot its knackered
[09:25] <UpuWork> I know as I put a few on backwards initially :/
[09:26] <UpuWork> back in 5
[09:27] <gonzo__> there is a regulator on them isn't there?
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[09:27] <fsphil> it's optional
[09:27] <fsphil> that picture looks like it doesn't have one
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[09:27] <fsphil> being powered from usb directly
[09:27] <fsphil> that's the same as I've mine setup
[09:27] <gonzo__> ah, ok. Wondered if a reg would protect the amp, in rev pol, or be sactrificial
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[09:28] <gonzo__> with FCD?
[09:28] <fsphil> yea
[09:28] <costyn> fsphil: we've been making and breaking down the setup many times, Maxell has been careful, and never noticed that it was connected wrong, but it seems the only explanation now
[09:28] <fsphil> my FCD was an early version that can't provide power via the coax
[09:28] <gonzo__> think the FCD2 has power out through the ant socklet. Far better soln
[09:29] <fsphil> it does
[09:29] <fsphil> I'll probably order another amp with the bias-t option
[09:29] <fsphil> most original FCDs had it too
[09:29] <fsphil> just the first batch that didn't
[09:30] <gonzo__> upu keeps them so cheap, it's a no brainer.
[09:30] <costyn> well we'll try replacing the amp them
[09:30] <costyn> then
[09:30] <gonzo__> should be easy enough to mod. Just a few turns of kynar or emaelled wire around a ferrite bead
[09:31] <fsphil> is there definitly 5v coming from the pi costyn?
[09:31] <costyn> fsphil: yep
[09:31] <fsphil> the white wire GND?
[09:32] <costyn> fsphil: yes
[09:32] <fsphil> that all looks prefect
[09:32] <fsphil> perfect*
[09:32] <costyn> fsphil: good to know :)
[09:37] <fsphil> how's the rpi going?
[09:37] <gonzo__> must box up my 2nd G4DDK LNA, for use on 868meg
[09:37] <fsphil> I was able to stream the samples from it but not hugely reliably
[09:37] <gonzo__> but build for 5V power this time for the FDC
[09:37] <fsphil> ooh there are lnas for 868?
[09:38] <gonzo__> the ddk one is wide band 50meg-4ghz
[09:38] <costyn> fsphil: good, with 1Msamples/sec we get adequate results; we haven't tested it yet in live tracking, but our setup should be complete in the next few eweeks
[09:38] <fsphil> ah right
[09:38] <gonzo__> but you could easilly put a filter on the o/p if needed
[09:39] <gonzo__> I'm relying on the antenna for filtering out lower freq signals and hoping not too much desense from 900meg cellular
[09:42] <fsphil> forgot about that
[09:42] <fsphil> I need to make up a yagi for the weekend
[09:43] <UpuWork> costyn pm
[09:43] <costyn> UpuWork: seen it thx
[09:44] <gonzo__> these lnas have a huge dynamic range. But apparentky suffer overload with lower freq signals, due to excessive gain at lf. But a yagi should keep most of the lf stuff out
[09:45] <gonzo__> www.g4ddk.com/SPFAMP.pdf
[09:56] <Maxell> gonzo__: looks nice
[09:57] <Maxell> and you are going to follow a balloon with yagi?
[09:57] <fsphil> black magic
[09:58] <gonzo__> there has been talk on using that band for a while. So thought I'd build the kit to be ready.
[09:58] <gonzo__> I use yagi's on 434meg anyway
[09:59] <fsphil> folded dipole yagis seem fairly simple to make
[09:59] <gonzo__> but for 868 I will brobably just go to a clear space and listen from the car. As my 868 yagi is not that wx proof
[10:00] <gonzo__> phil, this is just a bit of 1/2" wood with some holes drilled and ali rods hammered through
[10:00] <fsphil> nice
[10:00] <fsphil> what's the main element like?
[10:01] <gonzo__> the feed was the hardest bit and that was prob easier than a fiolded dipole
[10:01] <gonzo__> it's like a j-pole
[10:01] <gonzo__> I'll have a look for the link to it.....
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[10:02] <gonzo__> http://www.wa5vjb.com/yagi-pdf/cheapyagi.pdf
[10:03] <gonzo__> I used the 902MHz design and scaled it a bit for 868meg
[10:03] <fsphil> ah it's like a half folded dipole
[10:04] <gonzo__> yep, but folded dipole you have to bugger about with making a balun
[10:04] <fsphil> the shield of the coax is connected at the half way point to the top, and the core to the end of the bottom?
[10:05] <gonzo__> yep that l;ooks to be the idea
[10:05] <gonzo__> I think the single non folded lelemnt works parasitically
[10:06] <UpuWork> any suggestions for a payload mounted 2 meter antenna for TXing APRS ?
[10:06] <gonzo__> you have to be careful with yagi feeds. As the yagi will be designed to have a certain impeadence at the feed point
[10:07] <fsphil> I must see if I can borrow the clubs antenna analyser
[10:07] <fsphil> which now that I think about it probably doesn't go as high as 869mhz
[10:07] <gonzo__> upuwork, athe upsude down gp is prob still manageabet at 2mtrs
[10:08] <UpuWork> possibly
[10:09] <UpuWork> Was wondering if I could suspend a slim jim under the parachute
[10:09] <gonzo__> the coupling to the elements of a yagi will cange the impeadence of a dipole that you out at the feed point. So a 50ohm yagi design will change the Z od a simple dipole feed from it's freespace 75r to 50r. If you put a folded dipole in there it would not be the freespace 300r, it would be now 200r
[10:09] <gonzo__> upuwork, yep that would work, or a J pole to reduce the weight
[10:10] <fsphil> I understand about 10% of that gonzo__ :)
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[10:12] <gonzo__> hehe
[10:14] <gonzo__> well, that design I linked, if it has half a folded dipole, you would expect the impeadence at the coax feed pointo to be half a folded dipole. So 150r. But the proximity of the other elements in this specific design changes the impredence to 50R. So you can feed it directly with 50r coax
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[10:20] <UpuWork> gonzo__ I could make a slim jim from some ladder line ?
[10:21] <fsphil> ah
[10:22] <gonzo__> yep a popular method. Or thin 300R twin, like the stuff you used to get as an FM antenna with your hifi
[10:22] <gonzo__> that may be lighter
[10:22] <fsphil> I've no way to measure impedance
[10:23] <UpuWork> thats a good idea I'll go search "the bay"
[10:23] <gonzo__> fsphil, I would not bother measuring. Just pic a feed that matches ythe yagi design. (usually it will be detailed with the design itself)
[10:24] <gonzo__> if you get stuck, let me know, I have a gert roll of it
[10:24] <fsphil> all my coax is 50 ohms so it should work
[10:24] <fsphil> shame diamond or arrow don't make one for this frequency :)
[10:26] <Maxell> fsphil: what freq?
[10:26] <fsphil> 869mhz
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[10:27] <Maxell> whats on that? :o
[10:28] <gonzo__> really easy to make phil, mine too baout an hour
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[10:30] <gonzo__> Maxell, hopefully some HABs in the future
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[10:31] <gonzo__> you can use more power on 868mez than we can on 434. But limited to 10% duty cycle
[10:32] <craag> gonzo__: Or listen-before-talk.
[10:32] <craag> WHich is what I went for.
[10:32] <mattbrejza> or frequnecy hop?
[10:33] <craag> Could do, would be a pain to track conventionally though.
[10:33] <mattbrejza> well if you want to do anything useful at 869 youll need new recieving software
[10:33] <craag> Has anyone tried decoding the RFM22's gmsk in something like gnuradio btw?
[10:34] <mattbrejza> even with fldigi you can monitor the output times and whatever and tell the radio to hop
[10:34] <mattbrejza> if the hopping is defined by gps time
[10:36] <Maxell> mattbrejza: and then some rtl_tcp interface to retune
[10:37] <mattbrejza> na dont need to retune the rtl
[10:37] <craag> True, I'd have to finally try to get that set up then :P
[10:37] <Maxell> Complete gqrx/sdr# rerwite
[10:37] <Maxell> or a sdr# plugin
[10:37] <craag> Is there an sdr# plugin for the radio control that dlfldigi uses?
[10:37] <mattbrejza> meh a downconverter isnt too hard at all once you work out the rtl drvier lib thing
[10:38] <Maxell> craag: not that I know of.
[10:41] <gonzo__> freq hop. That's fsk, loosely!
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[10:42] <gonzo__> are you 869 people using narrow shift tty or using the mative keying from a module?
[10:42] <craag> Maxell: Yeah I've looked, but can't find any. I should try gqrx again at some point.
[10:43] <fsphil> mine will be AFSK packet and narrow rtty
[10:43] <mattbrejza> also ir2030 is really vague as to whether you even need 10%. It says 'not cause interference', so the path loss could perform that function?
[10:43] <Maxell> SDR# has more features then Gqrx.
[10:43] <fsphil> gqrx works in linux
[10:43] <Maxell> Gqrx "just works" for me, under linux yes.
[10:44] <fsphil> no support for the funcube dongle 2 yet though
[10:44] <Maxell> But when I'm at home I setup rtl_tcp from my linux laptop and use SDR# under Windows &.
[10:44] <craag> mattbrejza: I set mine for a threshold of 50mW at 200m path loss.
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[10:44] <craag> Way above what it should ever see when airborne imo.
[10:45] <craag> fsphil: Darn, I'll have to stick with sdr# then.
[10:45] <mattbrejza> it just has to be weak enough such that something on the ground will see its intended txr rather than yours
[10:45] <mattbrejza> you could probably put .5W across the entire 250kHz band @ 100% duty
[10:47] <fsphil> DSSS
[10:47] <fsphil> that'd be cool
[10:47] <craag> ooo I hadn't seen the combining of channels. That's nice :)
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[10:49] <Maxell> mattbrejza: why would you want to do that? :P
[10:49] <mattbrejza> because you have 250kHz of BW
[10:49] <craag> Sooooo much datarate..
[10:50] <mattbrejza> im just looking at what we could do in the limits we have
[10:50] <craag> Well, compared to RTTY.
[10:50] <Maxell> lol, overkill
[10:50] <fsphil> not overkill for video :p
[10:50] <Maxell> live video streaming from a HAB
[10:50] <Maxell> sure.
[10:51] <fsphil> or really high resolution images
[10:51] <mattbrejza> a rfm22b wouldnt really cut it though
[10:51] <fsphil> nope
[10:51] <fsphil> with an amp, maybe
[10:53] <craag> n-PSK with 250KHz BW would be ideal really. But would require a very custom TX.
[10:55] <craag> There's a fair few homebrew QPSK modulators in the DATV area, just need to lower the datarate and get the right LO to go to 869.
[10:55] <craag> Then implement a receiver :P
[10:56] <fsphil> easy!! so when will you be done? :)
[10:56] <gonzo__> dvb-s
[10:56] <gonzo__> lots of rx about for that
[10:56] <craag> gonzo__: Yes, I was thinking about our own custom bitstream tbh.
[10:57] <craag> SO we can send telemetry at >200hz :P
[10:57] <gonzo__> if you can make an encoder/tx cheap enough to be able to afford to dume in the sea, you'll be a very popular guy in the DATV circles
[10:57] <costyn> gonzo__: :)
[10:57] <fsphil> haha
[10:58] <fsphil> raspberry pi + fast DAC
[10:58] <craag> Just use the USB hardware that they have, which is essentially a bitstream => QPSK at any frequency unit.
[10:59] <fsphil> the pi and it's camera produce an h.264 stream
[10:59] <craag> All the encoding is usually done in the PCs in DATV. (except one recent one with an FPGA).
[10:59] <craag> fsphil: Yep, the datv world is v excited about that!
[11:00] <mattbrejza> what power/bw/modulation/encoding do these things usually use
[11:00] <mattbrejza> ?
[11:00] Nick change: joph_ -> joph
[11:00] <gonzo__> It needs a stand alone box, video in rf out, at less than the £900 of the current commercial offering
[11:00] <gonzo__> that's what the DATV lot want
[11:00] <gonzo__> PC's are note really any good for portable ops
[11:00] <craag> Erm about 20-100W, ~2MHz, QPSK, with 1/2 FEC iirc.
[11:01] <mattbrejza> so you get decent quality
[11:02] <craag> Yep, currently using DVB-S, so MPEG2 video. Hardware is starting to appear for DVB-S2, with H.264.
[11:02] <gonzo__> that would do. RTG HAB again!
[11:02] <mattbrejza> H.265? :P
[11:02] <mattbrejza> how would the H.264 hardware unit cope though
[11:02] <mattbrejza> probably not well
[11:03] <craag> mattbrejza: Would be nice if you hav any encoders lying around that can run on less than a supercomputer :P
[11:03] <mattbrejza> for H265?
[11:03] <craag> Yeah
[11:03] <mattbrejza> 264 it is then
[11:04] <gonzo__> what's 0.001 of an H between freinds?
[11:04] <craag> The only solution I've seen was software for mobile video encoding, and that was mobile video because they couldn't get a box full of Xeons to do realtime at any larger than mobile resolution!
[11:06] <craag> I'd reckon there's going to be a DATV DVB-S2 solution based on the Pi within a few months, if not weeks of the camera coming out.
[11:07] <mattbrejza> wont solve the transmitter though
[11:08] <mattbrejza> if you know your h264 codecs then it wont take long to put it all together
[11:08] <costyn> how do they keep improving these codecs? I mean, aren't there a limited number of tricks you can do with video to compress it further?
[11:08] <craag> No, still need bitstream => USB => I/Q => modulator => amp.
[11:08] <mattbrejza> yea theres theoretical limits on all this costyn
[11:09] <mattbrejza> well how good is the pi at shoving data out its spi bus?
[11:09] <craag> costyn: Yep, they're running short now, hence why the open-source codecs are suffering, as all the techniques people can think of have already been patented.
[11:09] <costyn> mattbrejza: h.264 was already pretty good as I understood it, now h.265 will do the same video/quality but at half the datarate... wtf :)
[11:10] <craag> mattbrejza: Hmm, good point, works for rfm22, but never tried mass-datarate.
[11:10] <mattbrejza> with audio/usb you write a block to a buffer on that bit of hardweare and let it get on with it
[11:11] <mattbrejza> but the spi might be directly off the processor bus
[11:11] <costyn> HEVC was designed to substantially improve coding efficiency compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC HP, i.e. to reduce bitrate requirements by half with comparable image quality, at the expense of increased computational complexity. <-- well there's the catch :)
[11:11] <craag> costyn: Hence the supercomputers :P
[11:11] <mattbrejza> yea complexity always goes up, but you still have to find something to take advantage of
[11:11] <costyn> craag: yea :)
[11:12] <mattbrejza> but on fpga its probably not much worse then 264
[11:12] <mattbrejza> much being relative
[11:12] <craag> It's apparently a LOT more chip area, which is the major issue at the moment.
[11:12] <fsphil> I very much doubt it'll be half the bitrate
[11:13] <craag> fsphil: It pretty much is. There's some weirdness with stuff like grass in a football game if you look closely, but motion and details are still v good at half bitrate.
[11:13] <fsphil> so not half then :)
[11:14] <fsphil> I've not seen any 265 demos yet
[11:14] <fsphil> my machine struggles with h.264 as it is
[11:14] <craag> It balanced out, the motion was better than the h.264
[11:14] <craag> imo
[11:15] <fsphil> still an inprovement either way
[11:15] <fsphil> er
[11:15] <fsphil> improvement
[11:15] <craag> Yeah, 50% bw at even 80% quality is something broadcasters will jump for.
[11:16] <fsphil> I remember microsoft going on about how WMA was as good as mp3 at 50% the bitrate
[11:16] <fsphil> it clearly wasn't
[11:17] <mattbrejza> well anyone feel like looking on google scholar for papers?
[11:17] <mattbrejza> cos i cba :P
[11:17] <fsphil> VP8 seems to have flopped a bit, which is a shame
[11:19] <craag> Yeah, VP8 is worse than h.264, with less optimised encoding and no HW decode.
[11:19] <craag> VP9 is being worked on though, basically taking the scraps of technique that haven't been patented yet.
[11:19] <fsphil> patents really are holding back progress in this area
[11:20] <fsphil> the opposite of what they're suppose to do
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[11:20] <craag> The problem is that there is going to be a ridiculous amount of money in holding the smallest patent in HEVC.
[11:21] <craag> It's a no-brainer for any company with video compression people, to patent anything they find, add it to HEVC, and reap royalties for years to come.
[11:21] <costyn> craag: heh
[11:21] <fsphil> from a making money point of view, yea
[11:22] <fsphil> for everyone else, it sucks
[11:22] <craag> serios props to google for not going that route.
[11:22] <craag> *serious
[11:23] <craag> But then google has to pay royalties on all h.264 videos they have on youtube?
[11:23] <craag> So it's about money for them too?
[11:23] <fsphil> I believe they got h.264 patents from the motorola purchase
[11:23] <fsphil> so they make money on h.264 too
[11:24] <craag> Ah.
[11:24] <craag> Ok, so they are just not-being-evil.
[11:24] <craag> :)
[11:24] <fsphil> evilish
[11:25] <craag> I think they looked at opening up the motorola patents and found they relied on derivative work that they didn't own the patents for.
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[11:25] <craag> derivative isn't the right word.
[11:25] <craag> *other
[11:26] Action: craag => afk.
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[12:27] <Hix> join #london-hack-space
[12:27] <Hix> doh
[12:28] <fsphil> they've hacked your brain
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[12:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Lower Stoford Developments "Re: [UKHAS] Polystyrene foam thickness survey."
[12:34] <Hix> not worth hacking fsphil
[12:39] <fsphil> might need overclocking?
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[12:50] <Maxell> fsphil: patches are welcome.
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[12:59] <costyn> UpuWork: PM
[12:59] <fsphil> I need to upgrade my firewall, there's too much useless information getting in there
[13:00] <costyn> Hix: check the industrial-quality rack for use with on my timelapse rig : http://imgur.com/a/tCQOC#6
[13:00] <costyn> Hix: it's quite a bit bigger than I had anticipated
[13:01] <fsphil> shiny
[13:01] <costyn> (finger for scale :)
[13:02] <Hix> whoa - that's a bit errrr industrial.
[13:02] <Hix> i found this section £13.60 per metre
[13:02] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/qR9YLQ2.png
[13:03] <Hix> and you might want to checlk out this for alternatives to rack/ pinion
[13:03] <Hix> http://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-belts-open-length-belting-c-25_38_49.html
[13:03] <Hix> just need to find a source of PTFE or similar block for the slide "bearings"
[13:04] <Hix> and to design my own carriage from simple 6082 flat-stock
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[13:04] <costyn> Hix: too late, I already have a rack :)
[13:04] <costyn> Hix: belt looks nice tho
[13:04] <Hix> hmm yeah, missed the bleeding obvious there
[13:05] <Hix> seems pretty robust
[13:05] <Hix> reckon fairly quiet and backlash free
[13:05] <fsphil> is this for doing close up or night time timelapse videos?
[13:05] <Hix> this could yet become real http://i.imgur.com/6RUbNww.png
[13:05] <costyn> fsphil: night time yea
[13:05] <fsphil> there's been some really impressive night sky timelapses with moving cameras
[13:05] <fsphil> fantastic. looking forward to seeing the results!
[13:06] <costyn> fsphil: it's what we're planning. :) I have all the bits, now need to combine it into a working whole
[13:06] <Hix> fsphil, all manner of timelapse
[13:07] <Hix> like this beauty http://vimeo.com/24456787
[13:08] <costyn> Hix: very nice
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[13:10] <Hix> brilliantly done i think
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[13:20] <Hix> found my bearing material Costyn http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/UHMWPESheet/Natural/5mm/
[13:20] <Hix> this is getting closer to real than it was
[13:20] <Hix> and the cost is a lot less
[13:20] <Hix> :D
[13:21] <costyn> Hix: cool
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[13:25] <Hix> costyn, just been pointed towards this http://www.makerslide.com/
[13:27] <costyn> Hix: nice, there's another system as well. there was a kickstarter campaign, can't find it right now. was a bit expensive
[13:27] <costyn> Hix: but what about linear guidance systems? 2 rails?
[13:28] <Hix> did look at h6 ground bar, but couldnt find pricces
[13:30] <Hix> apparently there was a group buy on the makerslide sections at the london hackerspace
[13:31] <costyn> Hix: found it: http://www.makeblock.cc/work/slide/
[13:32] <costyn> Hix: the makeblock concept is really quite cool
[13:32] <costyn> although I'd wish people would stop using 'make' in everything
[13:32] <fsphil> +1
[13:33] <Hix> option overload
[13:33] <Hix> but I'm leaning towards the simplicity of the UHMWPE bearing concept
[13:33] <Hix> you can buy it in 8mm thickness
[13:33] <Hix> so it'd fit the extrusion already
[13:34] <costyn> Hix: makeblock.cc stuff is still prototype, they're stil in kickstarter mode apparnetly
[13:34] <Hix> just needs a carriage to hold it
[13:34] <Hix> this stuff is all out there, no minimum qty needed
[13:34] <Hix> simple and available
[13:35] <Hix> might make a suggestion to makerslide [sorry] about an extrusion for the UHMWPE carriage
[13:35] <Hix> see if it gains interest
[13:35] <Hix> CAD mostly there for it
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[13:36] <Hix> Hi daveake
[13:37] <daveake> Hi Hix
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[13:41] <Laurenceb> famous guy
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[13:45] <Cadair> Hey guys.
[13:47] <Cadair> I have a follow-on question from yesterday. What adrurino board is the most basic while having enough features to run GPS + 1x temp and Tx?
[13:48] <Hix> arduino pro mini 3v3
[13:48] <Hix> but needs icsp
[13:48] <Hix> uno will work
[13:49] <Hix> does for me so fR
[13:49] <Hix> far
[13:50] <costyn> Cadair: Arduino Micro is fairly new, I like it thusfar. also not to expensive
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[13:50] <costyn> it would be great, except the labelling of the pins will enrage you
[13:52] <Hix> didn't know about that, looks good http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMicro
[13:55] <fsphil> I'd like to try the Due but I can't justify buying one :)
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[13:56] <Hix> costyn whats wrong with the pins? http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/ArduinoMicro_pinout.png
[13:58] <costyn> Hix: pick a physical pin in the middle somwhere: http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/ArduinoMicroFront.jpg now determine which label belongs to it... good luck
[14:00] <Hix> hmmm yeah ,see what you mean, just printout and keep paper next to it
[14:00] <Hix> paintpen dots for indexing?
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[14:01] <cuddykid> has anyone come across this site before? -> http://highaltitudescience.com/
[14:01] <cuddykid> someone just pointed it out to me
[14:01] <costyn> Hix: what are paintpen dots?
[14:02] <costyn> Hix: and thanks for that pinout page... good idea to print that out
[14:02] <UpuWork> http://shop.highaltitudescience.com/Eagle-Flight-Computer-55897.htm
[14:02] <UpuWork> looks like a 6502 at the core of that
[14:03] <Hix> costyn just use a small paint marker to make a dot for important ones
[14:03] <cuddykid> yeah, I saw that - seem to be shifting quite a few
[14:03] <fsphil> the picture isn't big enough
[14:03] <fsphil> it's likely to be an atmega
[14:03] <Hix> http://www.craftyarts.co.uk/acatalog/edding_Window___Blackboard_Marker.html
[14:04] <costyn> Hix / fsphil : cool thing about the micro is that the analog pins can be used as digital ones too. so lots more pins to choose from
[14:05] <fsphil> that's true of any arduino isn't it?
[14:05] <Hix> isn't that tru on the uno too?
[14:05] <Hix> ^
[14:05] <costyn> Hmm I thought that was a new feature, but maybe I wasn't paying attention :)
[14:06] <costyn> I stand corrected :)
[14:06] <Hix> that's my forte
[14:06] <Hix> miss the bleeding obvious most of the time
[14:06] <Hix> :D
[14:06] <costyn> in anycase, the arduino as a keyboard/mouse is probably one of the least useful new "features" I can think of
[14:06] <costyn> why would you want it to be controlling your computer as if you're doing keyboard inputs?
[14:07] <costyn> I mean, there are easier ways of getting data into your computer arent there
[14:07] <fsphil> not if your project is making a game controller
[14:07] <fsphil> or barcode scanner
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[14:40] <SAIDias> WooHoo, got my cross band repeater controller build and working!
[14:40] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[14:40] <W0OTM> grr
[14:41] <costyn> fsphil: ok ok... I guess there's a few situations in whre it could be useful:)
[14:42] <Hix> wow - http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ are really reasonable on std plate and section prices
[14:42] <Hix> and localish too :)
[14:43] <costyn> any tips & tricks on attaching aluminum antenna parts to (or with) iron bits (on the house).
[14:43] <costyn> I was told alu and iron wil get corrosive as they react
[14:44] <Hix> galvanic corrosion, true
[14:44] <Hix> you could heatshrink the ali ection to isolate it
[14:44] <Hix> or paint
[14:45] <gonzo__> ali masts and steel U clamps have been used for years with no real prob.
[14:45] <gonzo__> but I know that land rovers have suffered ali steel corrosion for years
[14:45] <gonzo__> poss due to the thinner gauges involved
[14:46] <costyn> what about using steel nuts & bolts on an otherwise ali pipes
[14:46] <Brace> I'd paint what you can personally
[14:46] <fsphil> nice one W0OTM
[14:46] <Hix> you could use ali fasterners or nylon for that matter
[14:47] <gonzo__> have a feeling brass/copper and ali are bad
[14:48] <gonzo__> if it's heavy gauge I think ali-steel is liveable with
[14:48] <costyn> Hix: I have some existing ali latticework where I wanna mount the antenna to: http://imgur.com/a/q2tea#0
[14:48] <gonzo__> but yes, paint/coat to keep the wet out
[14:48] <costyn> and the mounting pipe on my diamond x-50 is ali as well
[14:49] <gonzo__> think stainless is less of a prob with ali
[14:50] <Hix> http://www.gwr-fasteners.co.uk/aluminium-fasteners-178-c.asp
[14:50] <costyn> ok, thanks for the info guys
[14:50] <Hix> expensive, reckon normal metric screws would be cool though
[14:50] <W0OTM> fsphil: used my old basic2 stamp, so its super small and light weight
[14:51] <costyn> Hix: thx
[14:52] <Hix> np
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[15:45] <Spiruel> hello, I'm part of a student project - and we're wanting to launch a balloon that would hopefully lift a raspberry pi to a minimum of 35,000 metres
[15:46] <Spiruel> can anybody give me an idea of the size of the balloon, and the amount of gas required?
[15:47] <W0OTM> Spiruel: Do you know your total weight?
[15:52] <UpuWork> http://habhub.org/calc/
[15:53] <UpuWork> I know the answer is "because of Pi" but why the Pi ? Its not entirely suitable as a HAB platform
[15:54] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Sunday 10th February - Cumbria"
[15:55] <Cadair> UpuWork, >.<
[15:55] <UpuWork> ooo looks like I'm on collection duty
[15:58] <griffonbot> Received email: W0OTM "[UKHAS] iHAB-9 Launch Announcement"
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[16:01] <fsphil> heading yonder way?
[16:02] <UpuWork> yeah I was going to go to the launch site
[16:02] <UpuWork> but predictions mean it would make more sense for me to position around the landing area
[16:02] <costyn> "1.2Ghz live wireless downlink video
[16:02] <costyn> interesting
[16:02] <W0OTM> costyn: agrred
[16:03] <W0OTM> costyn: the Rockwell guys have something up their sleeve
[16:03] <costyn> W0OTM: but it's your announcement, you don't know the details? :)
[16:04] <W0OTM> costyn: No, I haven't see it yet.
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[16:04] <costyn> interesting. so you're sending up a handheld radio?
[16:04] <W0OTM> costyn: I am not geographically near the Rockwell team, so I have only discussed it via conference calls
[16:05] <costyn> W0OTM: ok
[16:05] <W0OTM> costyn: the only thing I know is that the whole video systems weighs 250g
[16:05] <W0OTM> costyn: includes battery, emit, and cam
[16:05] <W0OTM> costyn: and anttena
[16:06] <costyn> W0OTM: cool, there was a discussion about live video and weight and power restrictions eariler today :)
[16:06] <Cadair> What are the restrictions on the radio freq like?
[16:07] <W0OTM> costyn: this is a sponsored launch, so we give the sponsoring group control over what payloads are flown. We just give them size and weight guidelines. in this case they have 687g to play with.
[16:07] <costyn> W0OTM: aha ok
[16:07] <W0OTM> costyn: I just hope we can record the live video
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[16:11] <mfa298> Cadair: restrictions vary depending on where you are. UK is fairly restricted, USA have a variety of options.
[16:13] <Cadair> damn the UK! Apart from the 70cm band what else is useable in the UK?
[16:13] <costyn> 868 apparently
[16:13] <mfa298> there are some other bands that can be used but 70cm's has been the easiest in general.
[16:14] <mfa298> In the UK IR2030 is your friend (although a pain to read)
[16:16] <W0OTM> come move to the USA&wait&bad idea
[16:16] <W0OTM> LOL
[16:16] <Cadair> mfa298, jesus you ain't kidding, that is a beast of a document.
[16:17] <mfa298> Cadair: The most useful page is Table 3.1 and look at the ones listed in (e) which says what can be used airborne
[16:17] <costyn> Cadair: you can also just move across the channel
[16:18] <costyn> Cadair: rules are more relaxed here in Netherlands
[16:18] <costyn> also the no NOTAM thing is kinda nice
[16:18] <Cadair> NOTAM?
[16:18] <mfa298> costyn: is that on license free still or is that using an Amateur radio license ?
[16:19] <costyn> mfa298: APRS you still need a (n) license, but I haven't come across any rules about sending power from the air
[16:19] <fsphil> Cadair: you need permission from the CAA to launch
[16:19] <Cadair> ah right
[16:19] <Cadair> yeah
[16:19] <fsphil> along with the permission, they will publish a NOTAM
[16:19] <costyn> mfa298: but aprs is allowed from the air
[16:19] <fsphil> Notice To Airmen
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[16:20] <Cadair> what does analogue video is excluded mean?
[16:20] <fsphil> means you can't do analogue video... :)
[16:20] <Cadair> what counts as analogue video?
[16:20] <fsphil> like those video senders, and wireless cameras
[16:20] <Cadair> is over a modem analogue?
[16:20] <fsphil> anything that isn't digital basically :)
[16:21] <mfa298> unfortunately I think for CEPT usage you're still supposed to abide by the UK regs and the local regs which presumably means I still couldn't fly a HAM payload with my UK callsign even in another country :(
[16:21] <Cadair> so for a HAB you could use it say dling a webcam from a rPi?
[16:21] <fsphil> 434mhz has the massive benefit if being in the 70cm band, so there are lots of sensitive receivers and good antennas commercially available
[16:21] <fsphil> mfa298: indeed
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[16:22] <fsphil> be interesting to see what happens when one of the US flights reaches UK airspace, and transmitting on 144mhz
[16:23] <fsphil> (prediction: lots of complaining, but nothing else)
[16:23] <Cadair> fsphil, sure. I am just thinking about 863-865, it has a power restriction of 25mW, and the physicist in me says higher freq = higher bandwidth.
[16:23] <Cadair> Thinking about video
[16:23] <mfa298> fsphil: no doubt there'll be a few vocal HAMs complaiming about it and how it's upseting their enjoyment of things.
[16:24] <fsphil> higher power = higher bandwidth
[16:24] <Cadair> fsphil, yes, practicalities beat physics!
[16:24] <fsphil> You could do a megabit on HF if you really wanted to :)
[16:25] <Cadair> What are the Tx / Rx like on 863
[16:25] <mfa298> although most people probably won't even notice a USA APRS beacon if it's on the APRS freq (unless it's a 2m ssb competition day)
[16:25] <fsphil> I don't believe the 86x frequencies have been used in the UK yet Cadair
[16:25] <fsphil> I've an 869mhz payload mostly ready to go
[16:25] <Cadair> Hmm cool
[16:25] <fsphil> 869mhz allows for 500mw power
[16:26] <fsphil> but only for 6 minutes in an hour
[16:26] <Cadair> I assume you could use the same SDR as for 435
[16:26] <Cadair> XD]
[16:26] <Cadair> XD
[16:26] <fsphil> yea, but with appropriate antenna of course
[16:26] <Cadair> one really high bandwidth dl an hour
[16:26] <fsphil> a 70cm yagi won't be much good
[16:26] <mfa298> that's how the attempt at 868 was tried at the weekend
[16:26] <Cadair> fsphil, well yes!!
[16:26] <fsphil> I'll be using a funcube dongle to track the 869 one
[16:27] <fsphil> though I'll probably be putting a 434mhz module on there too
[16:27] <Cadair> What is the antenna design like for 868
[16:27] <fsphil> far more people have the hardware for 70cm
[16:27] <fsphil> on the payload it's the same as 70cm, just shorter
[16:27] <Cadair> yeah, what about base?
[16:28] <fsphil> probably gonna make a yagi
[16:28] <fsphil> I've got a design printed out
[16:28] <Cadair> I am thinking I might try and set up a base station for a bit of fun.
[16:28] <Cadair> I want to be able to Rx at 435 and 50MHz so I am going to need 2 antenna!
[16:28] <fsphil> the more trackers the better :)
[16:28] <mfa298> for the people that make their own antennas then they'll be the same as 434 just scaled down, There's probably very few comercial antennas for 868
[16:29] <fsphil> there are tri-band antennas Cadair, that can do 50mhz,144mhz and 430mhz
[16:29] <Cadair> ohrly?
[16:29] <Cadair> whats on 144 in the UK?
[16:29] <mfa298> I've got a GP15 which does all three.
[16:29] <Cadair> also how much!
[16:29] <fsphil> 144mhz is the 2m band in the UK
[16:29] <fsphil> and most places
[16:29] <mfa298> 144 is the 2m amateur band
[16:30] <fsphil> most flights in the US use the 2m band
[16:30] <Maxell> when is that puppy gonna hit the sky
[16:30] <Cadair> mfa298, you mean one of these?
[16:30] <Cadair> http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/base-antennas/comet-gp-15
[16:30] <Maxell> and will I be able to track it from the netherlands
[16:30] <fsphil> the 869mhz flight Maxell?
[16:31] <mfa298> the three bands are also close to being 3rd harmonics so it's possible to design an antenna that's a reasonable match for all three
[16:31] <costyn> Maxell: not with our antenna's
[16:31] <Cadair> mfa298, I love physics!
[16:31] <mfa298> Cadair: that's the one I've got. I've only used it for HAB tracking once but seemed to do a decent job
[16:31] <fsphil> I'll be putting an rfm22b on there so there will be something on 434mhz to track
[16:31] <costyn> Maxell: although, let me remove the unused discone from my roof one of these days
[16:32] <Cadair> mfa298, Seeing how I am broke and only going to be doing Rx I think I might try and make one.
[16:32] <fsphil> http://www.wa5vjb.com/yagi-pdf/cheapyagi.pdf
[16:32] <fsphil> courtesy of gonzo__
[16:34] <Cadair> cool
[16:35] <mfa298> if you're building your own antenna it's probably best to do a single band one.
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[16:35] <mfa298> at least for the first attempt
[16:35] <Cadair> If I want a cheap (< £50) antenna to mount on my shed and do tracking 435 and 50MHz meteor scatter from have you got any suggestions about what is the best thing to do?
[16:35] <Cadair> i.e, buy one or make one
[16:36] <Cadair> (or make two)
[16:36] <fsphil> get that comet
[16:36] <fsphil> a yagi probably isn't so good for meteor scatter
[16:36] <mfa298> you could probably make two fairly cheaply.
[16:36] <Cadair> what comet is £130
[16:36] <Cadair> as much as I would like that
[16:36] <mfa298> I've made dipoles for 2m for a few quid.
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[16:37] <Cadair> How directional are the yagis?
[16:37] <fsphil> depends on how many elements it has
[16:39] <Cadair> 6m is HAM in the UK as well isn't it
[16:39] <mfa298> yes
[16:40] <Cadair> and gain is in dB which is log scale so actually this is 10x worse at receiving 70cm than that massive comet antenna. makes sense.
[16:40] <Cadair> http://www.maplin.co.uk/triband-mobile-antenna-218789?c=maplin&utm_source=gcs&utm_medium=gcs_search&utm_campaign=A33GX&utm_content=Amateur+Radio+Accessories
[16:40] Action: Cadair Thinks he really would love to find the time to get a HAM license
[16:41] <mfa298> the first ham license is fairly easy to get.
[16:41] <fsphil> yea
[16:41] <Brace> Cadair: it's not that hard, I got one and I'm a dumbarse
[16:41] <mfa298> even the advanced shouldn't be that hard.
[16:41] <Cadair> yeah, it looks it. But it is more the time and money to make use of it
[16:41] <Brace> I was put off the full one as my morse was/is crap
[16:42] <fsphil> it can be an annoyingly expensive hobby
[16:42] <Cadair> as can most hobbys
[16:42] <fsphil> it's not required anymore Brace
[16:42] <fsphil> I've an advanced callsign and don't know any morse at all
[16:42] <fsphil> though I'd like to
[16:42] <Brace> fsphil: yeah, I know, I just CBA to go back and get the advanced callsigh
[16:42] <fsphil> lol
[16:42] <fsphil> understandable
[16:43] <mfa298> I've got a full and I didn't even have to appreciate morse :D
[16:43] <Brace> my 2E1 call isn't actually active at the moment anyway, as I let it lapse back when you still had to pay yearly to keep a licence
[16:43] <fsphil> I got the advanced because I didn't like the 2x0xxx format
[16:44] <mfa298> Brace: if you talk to ofcom you should be able to get it back fairly easily
[16:44] <Cadair> why is everything I want to buy at the moment perpetually about £30 more than I can afford?
[16:44] <mfa298> my M1 had lapsed for a number of years and I got it back
[16:44] <fsphil> global conspiricy
[16:44] <Brace> mfa298: yeah, I've got a form at home, it'll cost me £20 apparently
[16:44] <Brace> just need to get round to filling it in
[16:45] <Brace> not that I acutally have a transmitter at the moment :D
[16:45] <Brace> sold my old Icom handheld a while back
[16:45] <Spiruel> to reach 30,000 metres do you need a 350g or 1000g balloon? I'm completely new to this, and I have websites with contradicting information
[16:45] <Cadair> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SQBM1000N-6-2-70cm-TRI-BAND-FIBREGLASS-COLLINEAR-/300766981231?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item46071bec6f
[16:47] <mfa298> Cadair: after you get a decent antenna you then have to budget for some decent coax RG213 is a reasonable starting point.
[16:48] <Cadair> :O That is some expensive cable
[16:48] <mfa298> RG213 is relativly cheap.
[16:48] <Cadair> relativly
[16:48] <Cadair> I understand it has an important job to do!
[16:48] <fsphil> Spiruel: "It Depends" :) have a play with http://habhub.org/calc/
[16:49] <mattbrejza> 'We hope you enjoy your Radio Scanner, YUPITERU MVT-7100 Multiband Receiver' \o/
[16:49] <fsphil> depends mostly on yoru payload weight, and ascent rate
[16:49] <mattbrejza> bargin @ £73.78
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[16:49] <mfa298> cheaper coax (like rg58) tends to have a noticeable loss at 70cms.
[16:49] <fsphil> yea
[16:49] <mfa298> it's fine for a couple of meters
[16:50] <fsphil> I get a much better signal when I connect the radio to the end of the coax in the attic
[16:50] <fsphil> rather than the coax coming down into the room
[16:50] <Spiruel> OK thank you!
[16:51] <Cadair> are these the simplest type of antenna to build? http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/n1rik/n1rik.htm?
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[16:53] <mfa298> Cadair: if you think RG213 is expensive you're not going to want this: http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/antenna-cable/ssb-electronic-ecoflex-15---drum
[16:53] <Cadair> :/
[16:53] <Cadair> a bargain at £5 pm
[16:55] <UpuWork> Just use westflex 103
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[16:56] <UpuWork> http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/antenna-cable/westflex-103-per-metre
[16:56] <mfa298> I think I'd agree on the Westflex as long as it's a permanent install.
[16:56] <fsphil> plugs for the westflex are expensive :(
[16:56] <UpuWork> only slightly less loss per 100m
[16:56] <mfa298> although soldering the pin onto the centre conductor is a pain.
[16:56] <UpuWork> at 70cms
[16:56] <UpuWork> yeah I didn't enjoy soldering it
[16:57] <fsphil> I'd rather solder than crimp the centre pin
[16:57] <UpuWork> My iron isn't powerful enough its for SMD :)
[16:57] <fsphil> ah
[16:57] <UpuWork> anyway home time laters
[16:57] <fsphil> moar power!
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[16:58] <mfa298> I think I ended up using the gas flame option on a gas soldering iron in the end.
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[17:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Polystyrene foam thickness survey."
[17:24] <arko> morning
[17:25] <Maxell> >dark outside
[17:25] <Maxell> not 6:25 am
[17:26] <arko> hmm
[17:26] <arko> .nl
[17:26] <arko> netherlands?
[17:30] <Maxell> GMT +1 best GMT
[17:44] <Maxell> Hmm, guys? My dl-fldigi tells me there is a new version out there
[17:45] <Maxell> I'm running the ubuntu package, and just build from source.
[17:45] <Maxell> The github one is still telling me about this update.
[17:45] <Maxell> It's Fldigi 3.21.50
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[17:52] <mattbrejza> DanielRichman: , Randomskk ^
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[18:12] <W0OTM> Howdy Dan
[18:16] <DanielRichman> Maxell: I'm having difficulty parsing what you just said
[18:16] <DanielRichman> but basically
[18:16] <DanielRichman> either git pull or update from the ubuntu ppa
[18:17] <DanielRichman> I think you're running 4df21eb5 and the latest is 2abd6a7
[18:21] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Marshall
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[18:35] <W0OTM> Its good to have Helium again!
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[18:37] <fsphil> </high pitch voice>
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[18:49] <chrisstubbs> Can i delete my old payload docs from habitat?
[18:50] <chrisstubbs> they were just testing ones
[18:51] <fsphil> nah, just forget 'em
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> ok, i will try not to create so many next time haha
[18:51] <chrisstubbs> didnt realise editing it also duplicated it
[18:52] <fsphil> old docs are kept so that any telemetry can be matched against whatever doc was in use at the time
[18:52] <Maxell> DanielRichman: oh right, yeah. I'm running the ubuntu package. This one gives me the same error message as the github version
[18:52] <fsphil> well I think that's the idea anyway :)
[18:52] <fsphil> this the update message Maxell?
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[18:53] <fsphil> I get that too
[18:53] <Maxell> yeah
[18:53] <Maxell> but there is no update
[18:53] <fsphil> yep
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[18:54] <Maxell> wat do i not good with computer
[18:54] <fsphil> DanielRichman: jcoxon's tree is only up to 4df21eb5
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[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, sorry I read the backscroll and missed a question you asked me about the xtal
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[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't measure the capacitance of the xtal alon
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> *alone
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[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> I just took two 22 pF caps as the Arduino Uno schematic has them too
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[19:12] <DanielRichman> Maxell: ah, sorry. I'll email james and ask him to update his git. Until then, try "git pull https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi
[19:12] <DanielRichman> * git pull https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi master
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[19:16] <zyp> Lunar_Lander, loading caps for crystal?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:17] <zyp> they should be sized as appropriate for the selected cap
[19:19] <zyp> rule of thumb is twice the C_L parameter for the crystal, rounded down a bit to account for trace capacitance
[19:20] <zyp> uh, I meant as appropriate for selected crystal
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:21] <zyp> 22pF loading caps would therefore be suitable for crystals rated slightly above 11pF
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> I got that 22 pF figure, as I said, as the Uno uses it with its 16 MHz xtal
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[19:22] <zyp> different crystals might have different C_L values even if the frequency is the same
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I got my crystals at sparkfun
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> there is no datasheet but they say
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> "Rated at 20pF capacitance and +/- 50ppm stability."
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> so you say it would rather need 40 pF?
[19:23] <zyp> sounds like it
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[19:24] <zyp> but it might not matter for your application
[19:25] <zyp> too little loading will cause it to run a little bit faster
[19:26] <zyp> I did that mistake once
[19:27] <zyp> it resulted in it running 0.015% too fast, IIRC
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> OK
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I "copied" an arduino Uno on protoboard
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and it ran OK
[19:28] <zyp> while it might not matter for a microcontroller, it did matter in this application, because it was feeding a radio transceiver, causing a 400kHz deviation at 2.4 GHz, which was a big deal when the channel width was 1 MHz :p
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> I can imagine
[19:32] <zyp> since that time I've taken care to get it right, and not just put some random value ;)
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Polystyrene foam thickness survey."
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[19:36] <Maxell> DanielRichman: and the ubuntu packages?
[19:36] <DanielRichman> Maxell: hmm, I think I know what has happened. Could you uninstall and reinstall from ppa?
[19:38] <Maxell> Sure.
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[19:39] <Maxell> Uninstalled. Upgrading some older packages.
[19:40] <Maxell> Installing again...
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[19:41] <Maxell> DanielRichman: it's fine now.
[19:41] <DanielRichman> Maxell: cool. The reason is fairly dull and I have to run, but if you'd like I can explain it later
[19:42] <DanielRichman> but yeah
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[19:42] <Maxell> nah
[19:42] <Maxell> I just noticed a few times
[19:42] <Maxell> And I'm now prepping for some balloon spotting
[19:52] <Adam012> Hi all, just got the Horizon tracker up on the Spacenear.us tracking page for the first time. It's looking okay so far.
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[19:54] <Adam012> Our project is called Horizon and we're planning to launch a test flight (for the tracking equipment and a Canon A530) at 10am (HAB time) on Saturday 9th February from Queen Mary's Grammar School in Walsall.
[19:54] <Adam012> Our website can be found here: http://horizon.qmgs.walsall.sch.uk/
[19:57] <fsphil> what frequency are you using Adam012?
[19:57] <Adam012> The tracker is transmitting on 434.075 (434.066 actual) with a carrier shift of 550Mhz, Baud rate of 50, Bits per character of 7, Parity 0, 2 stop bits
[19:58] <fsphil> your actual will not be actual for too long :) they tend to move around a lot
[19:58] <Adam012> We have an LG E900 as a backup tracker for when the payload returns to earth
[19:58] <fsphil> I shall have a listen out!
[19:58] <fsphil> though I'm a bit far
[19:59] <Adam012> @fsphil: I know, we had a lot of drift when we were testing in the snow.
[19:59] <craag> ooh, looks like a landing v near me for once. Exciting.
[19:59] <fsphil> two flights this weekend. they're worse than busses
[19:59] <Adam012> We made the payload page on habitat but there was something about a Document to post here?
[19:59] <Randomskk> hi, yes
[20:00] <Randomskk> your payload doc had some kind of oddity actually but don't worry about that
[20:00] <mfa298> fsphil: I had a feelign there was a third as well but can't spot the email for it now.
[20:00] <Randomskk> you've made a payload config doc, have you made a flight doc?
[20:00] <Adam012> We did plan to launch last weekend but the hourly had us landing on the cliff edge. Too close for comfort!
[20:00] <Adam012> @Randomskk: I'm worrying, what do you mean by oddity?
[20:01] <Adam012> We haven't made a flight doc, if I'm honest I didn't even think the payload doc would work!
[20:01] <Randomskk> payload docs should be very straightforward
[20:02] <fsphil> you get it cleared with the CAA Adam012?
[20:02] <Randomskk> but yea one of your fields is the wrong type and it exposed something we hadn't noticed before
[20:02] <Adam012> Should I post on https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas with all the details?
[20:02] <Randomskk> be sure to make a flight doc before you launch, and when you do, just give me a shout and paste the document ID (it'l tel you what that is once it makes the doc)
[20:02] <Randomskk> that's a good plan too.
[20:02] <fsphil> that's always a good idea Adam012
[20:02] <Randomskk> and yes, I take it you've got permission to launch from the CAA?
[20:02] <Adam012> We have had clearance by email but we're waiting for the Certification
[20:03] <Adam012> They gave us notice 12 hours before our last planned flight having sat on the documents for nearly 2 months!!!
[20:03] <fsphil> yep, sounds like business as usual :)
[20:03] <Adam012> I chased them 4 times and agree with Upu that they are last minute Charlies.
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[20:04] <Adam012> We have to put down £133 for a minibus, £76 for helium and all on the hope that we'd get clearance.
[20:05] <Adam012> We'd have lost the lot if they had said no.
[20:05] <fsphil> or just not said anything
[20:06] <fsphil> if it's any consolation my June launch got permission by December
[20:06] <Adam012> What? How did that work?
[20:06] <Adam012> December after June or before?
[20:06] <fsphil> after. I applied before June
[20:07] <fsphil> it wasn't until december that I finally got a result
[20:07] <fsphil> dates ammended of course
[20:07] <Adam012> Wow. Are they recruiting? I fancy a new line of work and it sounds like they need more bodies in that department.
[20:07] <Adam012> Would make getting NOTAM's easier as well.
[20:08] <fsphil> if it was more automated it would be easier and quicker for everyone
[20:08] <Adam012> Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
[20:09] <Adam012> Ooops, wife says it's dinner time. I'll be back in 30 mins.
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[20:11] <fsphil> has anyone floated a 1000g hoyweeewewerr (sp?)
[20:11] <fsphil> hwoyee
[20:12] <fsphil> I think I remember a 1200g floating
[20:19] <W0OTM> K6??? did
[20:19] <Upu> hey Adam can you post what frequencies you are using as we won't want any clashes
[20:20] <Randomskk> 19:57:52 Adam012> The tracker is transmitting on 434.075 (434.066 actual)
[20:23] <Upu> thanks Adam
[20:23] <Upu> oh yes I see that now sorry
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[20:32] <mattbrejza> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170981316628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[20:32] <mattbrejza> radio going for £56
[20:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Joe "Re: [UKHAS] Polystyrene foam thickness survey."
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[20:36] <MrCraig> Evening all
[20:36] <jonsowman> hello
[20:36] <MrCraig> hi jon
[20:36] <mattbrejza> wernt after a ssb radio by any chance?
[20:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Lower Stoford Developments "Re: [UKHAS] Polystyrene foam thickness survey."
[20:37] <MrCraig> Couple of questions for you actually :-) Do you recall how heavy I said my payload is when you asked last week? I think I misinformed you.... Are you attending at cambridge on saturday? Need a ride from leatherhead? Bringing a yagi by any chance?
[20:37] <MrCraig> Ok, perhaps a few questions.
[20:38] <Randomskk> MrCraig: have you seen predictions for saturday?
[20:38] <griffonbot> @S_alhateem: Rock band in campus #CUSF http://t.co/KHLdJCR7 [http://twitter.com/S_alhateem/status/299255671256387584]
[20:38] <jonsowman> ^ lol
[20:38] <jonsowman> MrCraig: yes, predictions are the first thing to address
[20:38] <jonsowman> it's looking pretty damp
[20:38] <MrCraig> Randomskk: The last ones I saw looked like I was just going to miss hastings (not ideal)
[20:38] <Randomskk> miss hastings by entering the sea
[20:38] <MrCraig> I'll run another prediction now
[20:39] <MrCraig> Randomskk: precisely.
[20:39] <jonsowman> to answer your other questions, I'm sorry I don't recall the mass. I will be there on Saturday if it goes ahead, but am already in Cambridge. We can bring a Yagi and track, though won't chase
[20:40] <MrCraig> ok - well, we're planning to meet at my workplace in leatherhead at around 8am to aim for 10am - if its not too damp :-P
[20:41] <jonsowman> 10am is fine
[20:41] <fsphil> weather is no excuse :)
[20:41] <Upu> there is a radio currently at £1.20 if you look hard
[20:41] <Randomskk> 10am saturday huh
[20:41] <Randomskk> I'm glad jonsowman has volunteered to be up :P
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[20:41] <Randomskk> ...I'm sure I'll be around too >_>
[20:41] <mattbrejza> there is one going for 58 in 3min Upu , the 1.20 one still has a while on the clock
[20:42] <Upu> it does and I suspect it won't end at £1.20 just a hunch
[20:42] <mattbrejza> but im gonna be annoyed if it goes for 58 having just bought one for 74 :P
[20:42] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:42] <jonsowman> evening
[20:43] <MrCraig> fsphil, saturday is my only opportunity, I'll be in dallas sunday afternoon / evening. Weather is only a concern for me if it's severe - but I do rather depend on the CUSF guys braving conditions! :)
[20:43] <jonsowman> it's not that so much as losing it in the sea
[20:43] <Randomskk> we've braved pretty bad ground conditions before lol
[20:43] <jonsowman> ground weather doesn't look too bad - 5mph wind and no rain
[20:44] <Randomskk> remember nova 22
[20:44] <jonsowman> 22..?
[20:44] <Randomskk> weasel
[20:44] <jonsowman> oh god
[20:44] <jonsowman> yes
[20:44] <Randomskk> :P
[20:44] <MrCraig> My internet connection here at the hotel sux - my company paid money for this :-/
[20:44] <jonsowman> (that was 19 btw)
[20:44] <Randomskk> was it now
[20:44] <jonsowman> 22 was t-rex
[20:44] <Randomskk> lol
[20:44] <Randomskk> jeez
[20:44] <Randomskk> oh yea!
[20:44] <Randomskk> how time flies
[20:44] <Randomskk> or nova launches anyway
[20:44] <jonsowman> :D
[20:45] <jonsowman> apex alpha was pretty windy too
[20:45] <Randomskk> I kept warm up in skylab for that iirc
[20:46] <jonsowman> oh yes :D
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[20:51] <MrCraig> ok - the exact same payload (give or take soft parts replaced) dropped between 2.5-3.5m/s on the last flight. Using ascent rate of 7.5 (assuming the balloon can be filled to do that) - it's gonna hit the channel. The faster I make the descent rate, the better the prediction looks - add weight?
[20:52] <mattbrejza> good luck with 7.5
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> I also get more than 7 m/s with 600 g payload and a Kaymont 1500 and 33 km burst height
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> on the burst calculator
[20:53] <mfa298> adding more weight could affect the ascent rate and/or burst height as well.
[20:54] <mattbrejza> advisable to work out before filling to 7.5 also
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah higher altitude should be less gass and thus less lift
[20:54] <fsphil> that's quite a big balloon for a tiny payload
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[20:57] <Adam012> That is a small payload. Our's weighed in at 1.3kg - bought too big a box from Ferribox
[20:57] <jonsowman> MrCraig: what neck lift do you need for 7.5m/s?
[20:57] <jonsowman> and also that's a lot of He
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> I bought the KCI-1500 back when I planned big
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> for a 2 kg payload
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[20:59] <fsphil> I can't think of anything to fly that would be that heavy
[20:59] <MrCraig> jonsowman - far too much (12170g) lol
[20:59] <Adam012> Only a DSLR or several Go Pros
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[21:00] <fsphil> I wouldn't be brave enough to fly a DSLR
[21:00] <Adam012> Wan't there someone on the other night planning to do just that with a Gyro stabilised rig?
[21:00] <Adam012> Wasn't
[21:00] <MrCraig> The payload (incl chute) is 700g + 1000g Hwoyee balloon. Trying to find a way to adjust the flight parameters to look favorable.
[21:00] <fsphil> yep
[21:00] <jonsowman> MrCraig: even in still conditions, anything with neck lift >3kg gets very difficult to hold and tie off
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> 12 kg MrCraig ?
[21:01] <lz1dev> fsphil: perhaps stipping an old DSLR
[21:01] <fsphil> our balloon nearly slipped of the filler rig in my last flight
[21:01] <fsphil> I don't recall what the neck lift was but it was pretty high
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, back in the days (tm) the scientific balloon probes had masses that would be crazy by todays thoughts
[21:01] <daveake> I've done one at 3.5kg and one at 5kg. Quite a lot of pull.
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> in Japan, a electrical sonde was built that weighed in at some 6 kg
[21:01] <MrCraig> Lunar_Lander :- I understand the figures aren't realistic - just playing with the numbers to try to find a prediction that doesn't mean a payload loss.
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:01] <fsphil> yea they really want to fly
[21:02] <Adam012> Talking about filler rigs how do you seal the joints? I was thinking silicone?
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> and that seemed to be a metal box
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[21:02] <jonsowman> Adam012: use proper gas fittings
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> a metal box at 6 kg under a balloon
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> in the 1960s I think
[21:02] <fsphil> imagine that landing on your car
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> in Japan it hopefully landed in the Pacific
[21:03] <fsphil> not as bad as that nasa balloon accident though
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> of which I still have to read the report btw
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> of the investigation
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> speaking of investigations
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> at a level crossing that malfunctioned in Osnabruck an ICE train stopped, the driver got out, asked a woman with her dog to stop the cars and then proceeded on
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> German Rail commented on the drivers behaviour being "non-standard" for such a situation
[21:05] <MrCraig> I saw what happened when you try to lift a biology lab above the navada desert with a balloon.
[21:05] <MrCraig> complete with ice packs
[21:06] <Randomskk> haha
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> what happened?
[21:06] <jonsowman> that ended really well didn't it?
[21:06] <jonsowman> oh no, hang on
[21:06] <Randomskk> so well
[21:06] <Randomskk> wait
[21:06] <MrCraig> mangled biology lab in a carrier bag.
[21:06] <Randomskk> maybe it was crushed by aliens to prevent their discovery
[21:07] <Randomskk> upper atmosphere aliens
[21:08] <fsphil> isn't that what Olly's looking for?
[21:08] <fsphil> they got his rocket too
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> on sparkfun there once was a vid from a rocket day in the desert
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> and I think they showed his rocket payload
[21:08] <fsphil> rockets are cool
[21:08] <jonsowman> true
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> and then how it was crumbled due to the impact
[21:09] <fsphil> it really did get crushed
[21:09] <MrCraig> Think I might as well just aim for berlin: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5cbbb1b8e8137a7fc181600636a69254f759238d
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> and what was it with the bio balloon?
[21:09] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander can travel up and catch it :)
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> Felix Baumgartner Style
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> op op op op
[21:10] <fsphil> you do have your radio don't you?
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> Felix Baumgartner Style
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> when will the launch be?
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> then I can take it home from uni
[21:10] <fsphil> saturday
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> and what is it with the new dl-fldigi?
[21:10] <fsphil> everything is the new dl-fldigi
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[21:10] <fsphil> there is no old one anymore
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> eee
[21:11] <fsphil> iii
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> who is the randomengineer guy?
[21:11] <daveake> ooo
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> steven
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> his nick ?
[21:11] <fsphil> rocketboy
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> fff
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> missing
[21:11] <fsphil> email 'em
[21:11] <nosebleedkt> I can't send money through paypal
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah good, it says "Uploading remaining requests to server" at shutdown
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> as the new windows version does
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> because some months ago it annoyed me "you don't have the latest version"
[21:12] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander, !
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> but I compiled after the new version was released
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedkt
[21:12] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander, still didn't fly a mission?
[21:12] <fsphil> I had the same bug until today Lunar_Lander
[21:12] <fsphil> well not a bug
[21:12] <Randomskk> "bug" :P you had an old version
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, there is an exam on Monday and after that I can fly :)
[21:12] Action: fsphil blames jcoxon ;)
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> maybe March 1
[21:12] <nosebleedkt> ooooooooooo
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> or even earlier
[21:13] <fsphil> I thought you said Mach 1 there for a sec
[21:13] <daveake> tuesday it is then
[21:13] <fsphil> ooh tuesday
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:13] <fsphil> I'll have to book a flight over
[21:13] <daveake> Largest influx of chasers ever
[21:13] <fsphil> you better video the launch Lunar_Lander
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> probably the NDR will be there
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> (regional public TV)
[21:15] <daveake> Nuclear Death Ray?
[21:15] <fsphil> oooh I can get NDR
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[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> Norddeutscher Rundfunk
[21:15] <fsphil> are you not in south germany?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> no Osnabruck is in the North West
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> actually we had the biggest British division post-WWII
[21:17] <fsphil> ah. I'm not sure why I thought you lived near the south
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> so can someone tell me what was it with the biology balloon in the nevada desert?
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> did it crash?
[21:19] <fsphil> it very crashed
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[21:19] <Adam012> Didn't it destroy a car/truck?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> was it a big balloon or a latex one?
[21:20] <fsphil> oh I thought you meant the rocket
[21:20] Action: fsphil didn't read
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> MrCraig mentioned the balloon
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[21:31] <SP9UOB_Tom> evening all
[21:32] <arko> evening
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[21:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: my 1.8V PIC design consumes 47-54 mA when GPS id in Psave mode :-)
[21:33] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: @1.5V
[21:33] <Upu> yeah thats alot of run time from an AA :)
[21:34] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: PIC have Peripherial module disable register, it can disconnect any peripherial :-)
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[21:35] <Upu> are you turning the ADC off to get that low ?
[21:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> upu: yes
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[21:35] <SP9UOB_Tom> MCP1640 works downto 0.6V
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[21:36] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: also voltagedividers has big values (VCC measure, stepup feedback)
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[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB_Tom
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> didn't you ask to see my payload in flight config?
[21:37] <MrCraig> joking aside its only 60 quid to get to calais and back for one car of tracking folk... I might have to consider doing it.
[21:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Coghlan "[UKHAS] Horizon Launch Announcement - Saturday 9th February - Walsall"
[21:38] <jonsowman> MrCraig: I'll chase it to Europe for you at cost ;)
[21:38] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: yes
[21:38] <MrCraig> I know jonsowman, I've not forgotten that suggestion.... it's at what cost that concerns me :)
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, one moment
[21:38] <jonsowman> haha
[21:38] <jonsowman> well indeed
[21:38] <jonsowman> I've been longing for an excuse to do that
[21:39] <SP9UOB_Tom> sputnik-3 1.8V will launch soon :-)
[21:39] <MrCraig> B&B with meals, in paris for you and a girlfriend + fuel and le chunnel... Could be just a little more than I'm willing to cover on the endevour :-P
[21:39] <MrCraig> though, were my gf in the country and my flight not on sunday, I'd do it.
[21:39] <SP9UOB_Tom> 12 grams (w/o battery)
[21:40] <jonsowman> MrCraig: I'm sure we could do it in one day
[21:40] <jonsowman> and I promise I'll just take Randomskk with me
[21:40] <MrCraig> wonder if my employer would adjust my flight to leave from paris. :-P
[21:40] <jonsowman> haha
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/5/7/5yvpcs-kkaypl-xne8/IMG6563.jpeg
[21:41] <Upu> pretty impressive consumption that SP9UOB_Tom, how much does it weigh ?
[21:41] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: cool :-) When do You launch ?
[21:41] <mattbrejza> we're still waiting to see whether the department, which pays transport expenses, will pay for us to hop over to france
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> late this month
[21:41] <jonsowman> mattbrejza: shotgun
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> chemistry exam on monday
[21:42] <Upu> thats a payload Lunar_Lander
[21:42] <mattbrejza> tbh its still a while to calais
[21:42] <Upu> strap a balloon on to it and let go
[21:42] <mattbrejza> itll beat us to it
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:42] <SP9UOB_Tom> UPU: im disabling ADC, voltage reference, unused timers, unused uart, spi, i2c and many more... :-)
[21:43] <Upu> yeah that gets the power down
[21:43] <Upu> pics and weight ?
[21:43] <fsphil> unused uart? you're not trying hard enough :)
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> and the beta and lambda circuit?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> (small Knight Rider reference there)
[21:43] <SP9UOB_Tom> Im also considering switch to internal 32 khz oscillator between transmissions
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, my payload weighs 614 g btw
[21:44] <SP9UOB_Tom> fsphil: ??? i have 2 uarts :-)
[21:44] <Upu> thats a good weight Lunar
[21:44] <Upu> less that my first payload
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> how much was yours?
[21:44] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: 12 grams (w/o battery)
[21:45] <mattbrejza> how obese :P
[21:45] <Upu> haha
[21:45] <Upu> ignore matt "size 0" brejza
[21:45] <Upu> foil friendly
[21:45] <fsphil> lol
[21:45] <SP9UOB_Tom> upu: i take some pictures in a while (its working now on the balcony)
[21:45] <Upu> ok
[21:45] <jonsowman> hahah Matt "Size 0" Brejza
[21:45] <jonsowman> that's excellent
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, today I looked at my JPEG trigger once more
[21:46] <fsphil> aye
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> it is broken anyway at the moment
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> the wire from the JST to the stepup came off
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> but otherwise, for example the camera header is wired correctly
[21:46] <fsphil> seems to be a flaw with jst
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> so that should be OK
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> what I considered was that the stepup only delivers 100 mA
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> and that could be too much for camera, CPU and SD
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> but when I hooked a lab supply to the input lines, it didn't work as well
[21:47] <fsphil> likely
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> so there should be some other error still
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if I should try one last time and invest 26 euro into a sparkfun board
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[21:52] <SP9UOB_Tom> Upu: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/sputnik-3/20130206_224616.jpg
[21:52] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/sputnik-3/20130206_224829.jpg
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[21:53] <SP9UOB_Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/sputnik-3/20130206_224839.jpg
[21:54] <Upu> though hole :)
[21:54] <Upu> looks good
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[21:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> next version will be 100% SMT
[21:55] <mattbrejza> SP9UOB_Tom: did you seen mine?
[21:55] <SP9UOB_Tom> mattbrejza: i cant recall
[21:55] <mattbrejza> its the same area (ish) has upu's breakout
[21:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> mattbrejza: with radio integrated in processor?
[21:56] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:56] <SP9UOB_Tom> i saw cool :-)
[21:56] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
[21:56] <mattbrejza> thanks Upu
[21:56] <Upu> I kept the link :)
[21:57] <SP9UOB_Tom> yeah awesome :)
[21:57] <mattbrejza> i was looking through sent emails
[21:57] <mattbrejza> need an imgur account really
[21:58] <mattbrejza> i cant see having a super small pico over small pico making a difference, as the battery and case are now the signifcant factors
[21:58] <mattbrejza> but the idea was to fit in the neck of a 100g balloon
[21:58] <mattbrejza> and to see just how small you can get it
[21:59] <SP9UOB_Tom> mattbrejza: no thermal insulation?
[22:00] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is trying to get aerogel
[22:00] <mattbrejza> it had some foam around the neck
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> alledgdly you can make aerogel
[22:00] <mattbrejza> but it was a right pain to track (it had off periods)
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> btw there seems to be another launch at HAM RADIO 2013 at Lake Constance
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, maybe again with the people of Project Copernicus
[22:01] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: really? Im looking for the criogel - criogenical insulation rated to 0K :-)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> I once read that making aerogel isn't that difficult
[22:02] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: i know, they will be launhing my APRS digipeater called dsDIGI
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> and I was told they have two 150 g slots for payloads
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> and the chief of launch asked if I would be interested
[22:03] <mattbrejza> quick make a spare payload Lunar_Lander
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah as I said
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> radio and GPS are not required as their mainboard already has that
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> I have to know if I get power from them
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> a battery cuts into the weight budget
[22:05] <mattbrejza> well two AA batteries weigh 30g or so
[22:05] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: cr123a
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> that would be up to 75 then
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[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> coin cell SP9UOB_Tom ?
[22:06] <SP9UOB_Tom> 3V and stepup if required
[22:06] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: no photocell
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> not a photocell like a photoresistor but a camera battery?
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> SP9UOB_Tom: you know it's produced for wall insolation?
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cabot-corp.com/Aerogel/Daylighting/Products
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[22:09] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: http://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/P943813.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Assorted-Fresh-CR123A-3V-Lithium-Battery-6-pack/647792/product.html&h=300&w=250&sz=11&tbnid=GlNm4FGyqTmFOM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=83&zoom=1&usg=__BSnBRRxsB564NmbWqoWHFczPyBc=&docid=uOtTk6JtWuwS-M&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=cNQSUc-qLYLIhAfslYGYDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBQ&dur=873
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[22:10] <SP9UOB_Tom> SpeedEvil: yes. i have contacted company in Poland, but still no reply
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, the best of course would be if I get some power from them
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about it
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:11] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: http://sklep.avt.pl/p/pl/487250/bateria+litowa+cr123a+3v+kinetic.html
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> I planned to make a 3.3V system
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> granules should be dead easy to make
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, and I still have that https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967 lying around in the lab
[22:11] <SP9UOB_Tom> Lunar_Lander: 1.2 - 1.4 Ah @3V - about 18 gram
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
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[22:12] <SP9UOB_Tom> and its easy to get 5V with steup
[22:12] Action: SpeedEvil realises his phone goes to over 4.2v
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB_Tom, yeah and then a atmega328 and a crystal
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[22:51] <Bellious> So, I am thinking of starting to play with Hab
[22:52] <Bellious> the only problem is i am a complete beginner when it comes to electronics
[22:52] <fsphil> might be worth getting an arduino board, having a play about with it
[22:52] <fsphil> get it blinking some LEDs
[22:53] <Bellious> is there anything i can get off the shelf to do the same thing?
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[22:53] <chrisstubbs> to use as a tracker?
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[22:54] <Bellious> yeah, i know there are SMS versions but somethingto track realtimewould be good
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[22:54] <fsphil> there are no off-the-shelf rtty trackers, the kind most used in the UK
[22:54] <fsphil> but there really isn't much involved in it
[22:54] <fsphil> and it's a good learning experience
[22:55] <Bellious> thats very true and i was thinking of that.
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> do you have any programming experience?
[22:55] <Bellious> a little C and Java in uni
[22:55] <fsphil> ah, C, you're sorted :)
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> you should make sense of arduino then
[22:56] <fsphil> it's more programming than electronics tbh
[22:56] <Bellious> ok cool, i have read the guide on the HAB wiki and it does seem useful
[22:57] <jonsowman> building your own tracker is half the fun
[22:57] <Bellious> I just thought i would check, but thanks for the help .... arduino board, herei come :)
[22:58] <Bellious> is cambridge the best place to do the launch then?
[22:58] <jonsowman> you're very welcome to come and launch here if you like
[22:58] <fsphil> geographically, no. but for getting assistance, yes :)
[22:58] <jonsowman> CUSF have a permanent launch site at Churchill College, and plenty of experience launching
[22:59] <fsphil> where abouts in the world are you Bellious?
[22:59] <Bellious> london, right in the centre.So probably best not do it from here
[23:00] <Bellious> im sure it would take out an overgroundtrain or something
[23:01] <jonsowman> the trains to cambridge from kings X are great
[23:01] <jonsowman> 45 minutes
[23:02] <fsphil> aah lovely london
[23:02] <Bellious> ok cool, i might take you up on that :) would probably drive on the launch to chase it down
[23:03] <jonsowman> Bellious: contact@cusf.co.uk
[23:03] <jonsowman> send us some details :)
[23:03] <Randomskk> when you're ready, of course :P
[23:03] <Bellious> great, thanks jonsowman
[23:03] <Bellious> of course lol
[23:03] <fsphil> no rush or anything ;)
[23:04] <jonsowman> certainly not
[23:04] <jonsowman> :D
[23:04] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is going to horizontal polarisation Night all
[23:04] <fsphil> I'd better fire of DM an email
[23:04] <jonsowman> fsphil: thinking of launching in 2015?
[23:04] <fsphil> yea, thought I'd get in early
[23:05] <Bellious> let me get the tracker sorted and then see where i am
[23:05] <fsphil> nite SP9UOB_Tom!
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[23:05] <Bellious> or 2013 ... ifi canget a rollonit
[23:05] <jonsowman> Bellious: of course, no rush at all. let us know when you've got some dates in mind, or if you have any questions about the site
[23:06] <Bellious> sorry, spacebar on laptop issticking lol
[23:06] <fsphil> ooh I hate that
[23:06] <fsphil> happened me a few weeks ago
[23:06] <Bellious> ive popped it off twice
[23:06] <fsphil> my laptop is just old. who knows what's under these keys
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> im off, good luck bellious! the guys on here are very helpful when it comes to arduino etc
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> night all
[23:07] <fsphil> nite chrisstubbs!
[23:07] <Bellious> thanks Chris
[23:07] <jonsowman> au revoir
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[23:08] <Bellious> ill have a look into the componants and then come back,thatway i canhave a long list of questions :)
[23:08] <fsphil> excellent
[23:08] <jonsowman> Bellious: you'll find a lot of answers on the wiki
[23:08] <jonsowman> but yes, do ask here if you don't find what you need
[23:08] <Bellious> thanks for the help guys,its good to see a support network :)
[23:09] <Bellious> catch you later, have a good evening
[23:09] <jonsowman> good luck!
[23:09] <fsphil> later Bellious
[23:10] <fsphil> my hourly predictor is changing wildly at the moment
[23:10] <fsphil> the atmosphere must be all over the place
[23:10] <Bellious> in thewordsof schwarzenegger 'illbe back'
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[23:11] <fsphil> strange that phrase ever became popular. it wasn't even that prominent in the film
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[23:20] <nigelvh> I think it's more related to his accent
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, did you ask about the capacity of the crystal yesterday?
[23:20] <fsphil> bah, my motherboard manufacture put their PDF files into a .exe file
[23:20] <fsphil> that's kinda useless
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[23:21] <nigelvh> We had talked about the capacitance of the traces the crystal was attached to yes.
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> no, didn't measure these
[23:22] <fsphil> yea, and how I was wrong to not use caps
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[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:25] <nigelvh> Evening
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[23:37] <fsphil> ack, was moving a motherboard between cases and the little cpu fan clips broke
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> no more nails
[23:38] <fsphil> really. hmm
[23:39] <fsphil> there's quite a lot of pressure in the clip
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[23:39] <jonsowman> the clips holding the fan to the heatsink?
[23:40] <Randomskk> or the ones holding the heatsink to the motherboard?
[23:40] <fsphil> heatsink to motherboard
[23:40] <fsphil> there's a plastic frame around the cpu socket
[23:41] <fsphil> one of the clips on that
[23:41] <jonsowman> oh dear
[23:41] <fsphil> I'm hoping the frame is a standard shape between boards
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[23:45] <fsphil> ah ha, it's called a retention frame and is removeable
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[00:00] --- Thu Feb 7 2013