[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:33] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm trying to compile dl-fldigi on Debian stable and get the following error: In file included from rigcontrol/hamlib.cxx:54:
[00:33] <KT5TK_QRL> ./include/dl_fldigi/hbtint.h:6:21: error: jsoncpp.h: No such file or directory (...)
[00:34] <KT5TK_QRL> any clues?
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[00:42] <KT5TK_QRL> It seems like dl-fldigi/habitat-cpp-connector/ is completely empty. That's where this file should be.
[00:42] <KT5TK_QRL> but it's not there
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[00:48] <DanielRi1hman> try $ git submodule init --update
[00:48] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[00:48] Action: DanielRichman has to go
[00:49] <KT5TK_QRL> Tks. will do
[00:49] <KT5TK_QRL> In which directory?
[00:50] <KT5TK_QRL> You mean git pull submodule init --update ?
[00:50] <KT5TK_QRL> the above git command doesn't exist
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[00:53] <KT5TK_QRL> seems to require a path
[00:55] <KT5TK_QRL> If I do just: git submodule init
[00:55] <KT5TK_QRL> I get: Submodule 'habitat-cpp-connector' (git://github.com/ukhas/habitat-cpp-connector) registered for path 'habitat-cpp-connector'
[00:55] <KT5TK_QRL> But the directory is still empty
[00:58] <KT5TK_QRL> Now I did: git submodule update
[00:58] <KT5TK_QRL> There are the files
[00:59] <KT5TK_QRL> Now we're compiling
[01:00] <KT5TK_QRL> Thanks DanielRi1hman!
[01:00] <KT5TK_QRL> Wonder why git didn't pull them in the first place?
[01:03] <KT5TK_QRL> Compiled and works
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[01:27] <chrisg7ogx> is there balloon launching activity in the wind/
[01:29] <Darkside> yep, launch tomorrow
[01:29] <Darkside> ... in australia
[01:29] <chrisg7ogx> oh you tease!
[01:30] <chrisg7ogx> i can see southampton balloon which has been tracked high wind gusts forecasted
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[01:32] <chrisg7ogx> according to map craag-1 is steady at 37k !!
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> We also launch on Sunday
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> From Texas
[01:34] <KT5TK_QRL> 1600g Hwoyee with PSK31 on 40m/15m
[01:34] <chrisg7ogx> zzzz good luck and good night
[01:34] <chrisg7ogx> ah hf now that is interesting
[01:34] <KT5TK_QRL> Trying a floater
[01:35] <chrisg7ogx> what does the forecast and predictor say abt expected route?
[01:35] <KT5TK_QRL> going east
[01:35] <KT5TK_QRL> likely not too far North :(
[01:35] <chrisg7ogx> shame further nort equals a chance for EU
[01:36] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, that's why.
[01:36] <KT5TK_QRL> But we almost never get that chance from here
[01:36] <chrisg7ogx> not to algeria i hope?!!!
[01:36] <chrisg7ogx> would a launch from Canada be more successful?
[01:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Maybe Mali ;)
[01:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Possibly
[01:37] <chrisg7ogx> is there an APRS onboard?
[01:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Anyways we have 15m during daylight and 40m at night
[01:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, PecanPico & PecanTurbo
[01:38] <chrisg7ogx> is there a web site?
[01:38] <KT5TK_QRL> Still working on that
[01:39] <chrisg7ogx> i want to post something on the funcube dongle group
[01:39] <KT5TK_QRL> But in general http://www.w5acm.net/
[01:39] <chrisg7ogx> Ah the Mayan calendar! I've got the t shirt!
[01:40] <KT5TK_QRL> well, that was the last launch
[01:40] <KT5TK_QRL> Now the call will be KT5TK
[01:41] <KT5TK_QRL> These are the payloads: http://w5acm.net/B3212C11.html
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[01:41] <KT5TK_QRL> except the Argentdata this time
[01:41] <chrisg7ogx> smiled when I saw, "BLT" a Slovak team sent a balloon up a couple of days ago with their national dish attached...sheep's cheese and dumplings!
[01:42] <KT5TK_QRL> :)
[01:42] <chrisg7ogx> your APRS freq is 144.600???
[01:43] <KT5TK_QRL> No, 144.390 in the US and then it switches automatically to 144.800
[01:43] <chrisg7ogx> maybe fish and chips from our boys soon
[01:43] <KT5TK_QRL> It swithhes to 144.600 when we reach Japan ;)
[01:43] <chrisg7ogx> ok tks yes 144.800 is used here european standard i think
[01:44] <chrisg7ogx> its a shame but time for horizontal zzzzs 0144 mhere g night and tks for info
[01:45] <KT5TK_QRL> GN!
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[04:11] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: Slightly late (or is that early) reply, It looks like the craag1 flight you could see on spacenearus is a replay of its last flight in November.
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[09:30] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:30] <WillDuckworth> morning
[09:31] <jcoxon> just got a grumpy email from work say the weather is no excuse for not coming in
[09:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:31] <costyn> jcoxon: snow?
[09:32] <jcoxon> indeed
[09:32] <costyn> we had our snow day last tuesday. whole country ground to a halt
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[09:32] <costyn> 1000km of traffic jams on the national highways (normal is about 200km)
[09:33] <jcoxon> eek
[09:33] <jcoxon> well i've got to get to work tonight but i'm loathed to leave super early
[09:35] <fsphil> no snow at all here. I'm disappointed
[09:35] <jcoxon> uksnowmap has powered up
[09:36] <daveake> plenty here and still falling
[09:36] <mfa298> fsphil: depending on your point of view that might be a good thing. I don't think we've had that much here and it seems it's become chaos
[09:36] <fsphil> nah I love snow
[09:37] <fsphil> uksnowmap is down, panic!
[09:37] <UpuWork> morning
[09:38] <fsphil> moorrrn
[09:38] <jcoxon> oh its working for me
[09:38] <fsphil> don't refresh -- it could just be the initial page load
[09:38] Action: jcoxon charges his radio
[09:38] <mfa298> its very slow to load for me
[09:40] <fsphil> ah, current forecast has the snow starting at 1600
[09:40] <fsphil> ... and not stopping
[09:40] <fsphil> until at least tuesday. yay!
[09:41] <x-f> your wish will come true? :)
[09:41] <jcoxon> grrr i'm on nights all weekend
[09:41] <jcoxon> worst case scenario
[09:41] <fsphil> lots of broken bones?
[09:42] <fsphil> yikes, blizzard conditions tonight
[09:42] <jcoxon> more i'll get stuck at work
[09:42] <jcoxon> for the whole weekend
[09:42] <jcoxon> work at night, sleep during the day, so no fun with the snow at all
[09:42] <fsphil> just because of it being busier?
[09:43] <jcoxon> they'll ask me to stay as they can't risk me going home and not getting back in
[09:43] <fsphil> aaah that's a fair point
[09:43] <jcoxon> its usually quieter initially
[09:43] <jcoxon> as people just stay in
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[09:46] <jcoxon> been geeky we should use aprs for uksnow
[09:47] <fsphil> aprs has the icons
[09:48] <fsphil> ah, uksnowmap finally loaded
[09:48] <fsphil> nearly 15 minutes. I feel better about my website load times now :)
[09:48] <mattbrejza> http://www.tomtom.com/livetraffic/ this works quite well too
[09:49] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Getting a few more requests than usual, I guess...
[09:52] <costyn> mattbrejza: tomtom map is awesome, it actually crashed last tuesday here in NL :) and few browsers didn't display it correctly because there were too many red lines
[09:52] <costyn> mattbrejza: I see London hasn't been hit by snow yet :)
[09:52] <mattbrejza> 50min queue to enter soton
[09:53] <jcoxon> yeah tehre is snow in london
[09:54] <costyn> jcoxon: I dont see anytraffic jams, just to the west, I assumed the snow had only been where the jams were :)
[09:54] <mattbrejza> all the roads have compact snow/slush here, nothings clear
[09:54] <fsphil> it's tradition for me to launch in the snow
[09:54] <fsphil> I should do a snowpico
[09:55] <fsphil> although not in this wind. a blizzard is a bit much for even me
[09:55] <jcoxon> fsphil, hehe
[09:55] <jcoxon> cause ot the layout of my street the snow is going up outside my window
[09:55] <fsphil> I think it would head out over the atlantic anyway, so wouldn't be tracked for very long
[09:56] <mattbrejza> if i were to launch it wouldnt go far, but i wouldnt be able to drive to collect it
[09:56] <mattbrejza> faster to walk
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[10:08] <daveake> Drifting here. Which usually means it drifts from the fields into the roads which, as they're lower, get filled up easily.
[10:09] <mattbrejza> the only thing drifting here are the cars
[10:09] <daveake> hah
[10:09] Action: daveake Looks outside. 4x4. Chunky tyres. Not worried.
[10:09] <mattbrejza> now i need to go out again and retake all my photos, camera was in S pic size...
[10:09] <daveake> aw
[10:09] <mattbrejza> until you get stuck behind everyone else
[10:09] <daveake> true
[10:14] <cuddykid> nothings drifting here - haven't had a flake of snow overnight
[10:15] <fsphil> nothing here either cuddykid, but it's coming!
[10:15] <cuddykid> yeah, it's forecast for later this afternoon here
[10:15] <cuddykid> looked at the radar and it does seem to be on its way
[10:15] <fsphil> just heard on da twitter that it's starting to snow in belfast
[10:16] <cuddykid> apparently there was a minor earthquake / tremor last night here& didn't feel a thing
[10:21] <fsphil> ah cool
[10:26] <daveake> You weren't testing your cutdowns then?
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[10:42] <cuddykid> lol, not yet
[10:45] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: looks like worcs have had quite a bit of snow - live on sky news :)
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> yeah - will make the cycle home interesting.....!
[10:46] <cuddykid> haha
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[11:00] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - Tuesday 22nd January - Chalgrove"
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[11:23] <jcoxon> i'm not sure uksnowmap is acutally working
[11:24] <jcoxon> my tweet hasn't added anything to it
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[11:24] <cuddykid> I know he was having big probs with the server hosting the other day
[11:26] <UpuWork> lets reprovision spacenear.us if its snowing near you make a chase car called "Normal weather for this time of year" #ofcourseitsnowingitsjanuaryduh
[11:26] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:27] <daveake> hah
[11:27] <eroomde> not a bad idea
[11:27] <daveake> just a mo :)
[11:27] <eroomde> i'm just trusting the forecase is right - that it should stop snowing by the end of tomorrow
[11:27] <eroomde> and thus i can get out on sunday
[11:27] <jcoxon> you flying this weekend eroomde
[11:27] <eroomde> yep
[11:27] <eroomde> well, I hope so anyway
[11:32] <daveake> I've got this Pi talk to do on Sunday, so I hope it is clear by then
[11:34] <eroomde> indeed
[11:34] <eroomde> well on the bbc weather forecast for heathrow, the snow stops at about 9am tomorrow
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[11:36] <WillDuckworth> off to Oz tomorrow - Heathrow better have their act together
[11:38] <LazyLeopard> Brother's off to Kenya tomorrow, too. M25 permitting...
[11:39] <LazyLeopard> (No good Heathrow having its act together if the transport routes aren't workin.)
[11:39] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: fantastic! how long for?
[11:40] <WillDuckworth> 2 weeks - seeing friends and getting some sunshine :D
[11:40] <cuddykid> lovely! very jealous haha
[11:40] <WillDuckworth> will be interesting with the little one on the plane too..... aaah
[11:41] <cuddykid> oh yeah! especially for that length of time - good luck!
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[11:51] <costyn> WillDuckworth: how little is little? :)
[11:53] <Gadget-Mac> Morning all
[11:53] <WillDuckworth> 5 months
[11:53] <costyn> owww
[11:53] <WillDuckworth> made serious impact on HABing activities
[11:53] <Gadget-Mac> http://hackaday.com/2013/01/18/operation-stratosphere/
[11:53] <costyn> WillDuckworth: don't get me started
[11:53] <costyn> WillDuckworth: i have 2 of 1 year and 2.5 years :)
[11:54] <Gadget-Mac> WillDuckworth: How old ?
[11:54] <costyn> WillDuckworth: well at least they still sleep a lot
[11:54] Action: Gadget-Mac reads up
[11:54] <WillDuckworth> hopefully he'll will sleep through the flight! fingers crossed
[11:55] <costyn> WillDuckworth: unlikely but one can hope :)
[11:56] <costyn> WillDuckworth: saw a pic on the internet somwehere where parents of a small child had given out little bags of candy with a note saying they had a kid and were sorry for any excessive noise and if things got to bad please let them know. Thought it was clever
[11:56] <WillDuckworth> hehe - thanks
[11:57] <fsphil> WillDuckworth: it was 46C in Sydney yesterday!
[11:57] <WillDuckworth> toasty :D
[11:57] <WillDuckworth> might melt
[11:57] <daveake> 46C happens to be the exact external temperature reading in my car
[11:58] <daveake> however it is broke
[11:58] <costyn> daveake: heh
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[12:20] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqHqwsm8nk
[12:25] <nosebleedkt> Hi !
[12:28] <fsphil> it's snoooowing
[12:28] <daveake> woo
[12:28] <daveake> hoo
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[12:34] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> testing my ups now
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> 666w load for 30 min so far
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> actually, dropped to 647
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> taking the chill off the kitchen
[12:43] <chrisg7ogx> looking at Northwood WX Fax looks bad for end of weekend
[12:47] <griffonbot> Received email: chris G7OGX "[UKHAS] Re: Launch announcement - Tuesday 22nd January - Chalgrove"
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[13:01] <fsphil> "All packages from DX.com are sent without DX logo or any information indicating DX.com." .... the first rule of DX.com....
[13:16] <lz1dev> costyn: hey
[13:17] <costyn> lz1dev: hello
[13:17] <costyn> fsphil: hehe
[13:17] <costyn> fsphil: they're usually just covered in weird chinese customs stickers
[13:17] <lz1dev> costyn: how did you get 11 digits on the speed ? :D
[13:18] <costyn> lz1dev: 15, behind the decimalpoint!
[13:18] <costyn> lz1dev: I'll take a screenshot if you want
[13:18] <lz1dev> :D
[13:18] <lz1dev> no need
[13:18] <costyn> imgur.com/Ckc9k
[13:19] <lz1dev> thats altitude :)
[13:19] <costyn> lz1dev: well yea, but it did the same with speed earlier today when I was in the car
[13:19] <costyn> lz1dev: doing it with accuracy now too
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[13:24] <lz1dev> silly me not spotting that in the spec
[13:24] <lz1dev> readonly attribute double? altitude;
[13:24] <lz1dev> readonly attribute double accuracy;
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[13:35] <Laurenceb_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Beethoven_WoO_59_Erstausgabe.png
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> the pedo song
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[14:06] <griffonbot> Received email: GMT "[UKHAS] Re: Mobile Tracking webapp"
[14:06] <griffonbot> Received email: GMT "[UKHAS] Re: Launch announcement - Tuesday 22nd January - Chalgrove"
[14:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Mobile Tracking webapp"
[14:10] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch announcement - Tuesday 22nd January - Chalgrove"
[14:16] <costyn> lz1dev: not sure how quickly a chase car times out on the map. Might be useful if more people are going to use/test it if they are purged more often
[14:17] <lz1dev> costyn: that has to be handled on the backend
[14:17] <costyn> lz1dev: yea, but just we might want to consider
[14:17] <lz1dev> I think Randomskk said, that its fine to do it manually
[14:17] <costyn> we'll see how it goes
[14:17] <costyn> lz1dev: ok
[14:17] <lz1dev> its been considered :)
[14:18] <costyn> lz1dev: ok :)
[14:18] <costyn> I see all the test chase cars of this morning are gone :)
[14:18] <costyn> lz1dev: maybe you could raise the bar, give the user a warning when they enable the chase car mode "do you really want to do this? Your location will be displayed on spacenear.us
[14:19] <lz1dev> thats kinda of silly
[14:19] <lz1dev> you could just have chase cars timeout
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[14:20] <costyn> ok :)
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[15:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
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[15:11] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Mobile Tracking webapp"
[15:21] <chrisg7ogx> is CRAAG-1 transmitting please?
[15:22] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: I think the CRAAG-1 you saw last night was the flight from november showing up.
[15:22] <mfa298> the path on the map looked suspiciously like the old flight.
[15:23] <chrisg7ogx> ok thanks map shows today's date
[15:24] <mfa298> I saw it last night as well, but the flight path looked very much like the one in november
[15:24] <x-f> there is no date in telemetry, it is always "today"
[15:26] <mfa298> this was the real flight from november: https://www.thecraag.com/CRAAG1_Camera_Launch_26th_November
[15:26] <chrisg7ogx> oh ok... thought it was risky considering wind gusts tks again
[15:26] <mfa298> last I heard (about a week ago) it's still in the same tree.
[15:28] <chrisg7ogx> lol waiting for a friendly woodsman I'll warrant!
[15:28] <chrisg7ogx> balloon with HF launching from Texas tomorrow
[15:31] <mfa298> I think the decsicion was that the cost of getting it down is more than its worth
[15:32] <chrisg7ogx> off to feed the birds (not tuppence a bag) bye
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgeNTKrPghs this is not on topic. other than this is somewhat done with balloons,
[15:35] <chris_99> haha
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> sometimes
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[15:42] <costyn> SpeedEvil: haha
[15:44] <costyn> lz1dev: do I need to do anything to see the new version?
[15:44] <costyn> lz1dev: I tried reloading
[15:46] <lz1dev> costyn: what do you mean?
[15:46] <costyn> lz1dev: I see you committed a new version; is it live yet on the tracker?
[15:46] <costyn> (on habhub?)
[15:46] <lz1dev> probably note
[15:47] <lz1dev> not*
[15:47] <lz1dev> deployment is manual, afraik
[15:49] <costyn> lz1dev: ok
[15:59] <kokey> should launch a balloon with a label printer, and it just prints and drops the labels with telemetry on it
[16:00] <kokey> can follow it like breadcrumbs
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[16:17] <Randomskk> lz1dev: having a big bold text warning on that page saying it will make your current location public and should only be ticked if you are currently chasing a HAB payload might not be a bad idea.
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[16:29] <lz1dev> Randomskk: agreed
[16:32] <lz1dev> are you thinking one time warning
[16:32] <lz1dev> or every time?
[16:35] <Randomskk> just static text on the chase car tab
[16:35] <daveake> Is the habitat --> spacenear link currently broken? I uploaded some telemetry (accidentally as it happens) and went to spacenear to delete, but it's not showing.
[16:35] <daveake> logtail not showing any issues
[16:36] <Randomskk> doesn't look broken
[16:36] <Randomskk> logs say it sent data from PIE at about 16.32.59
[16:36] <daveake> yup
[16:36] <Randomskk> sentence ID 51
[16:36] <daveake> Just not showing on spacenear
[16:36] <Randomskk> so it isn't. huh.
[16:37] <Randomskk> probably something weird on the spacenear side? or it discarded the packet for some reason
[16:37] <daveake> Actually ... earlier I ran a quick chasecar test and that didn't show either
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[16:40] <daveake> tracker admin is most definitely broken ... mysql_fetch_array() expects parameter 1 to be resource, boolean given in /home/space/public_html/tracker/admin/index.php on line 129
[16:40] <Randomskk> natrium42: ping
[16:40] <Randomskk> I can't see anything obvious in the logs, but I also can't find the PHP error logs for spacenear.us
[16:40] <Randomskk> sounds like the database might be sad
[16:40] <daveake> yup
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[17:34] <lz1dev> costyn: your suggestion is now live
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[17:35] <arko> itz a morning
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[17:40] <fsphil> he stole it from us precious
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[17:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> offtipic, but since there are so meny brits here, ill ask. Does someone have freeview and able to check SNR on a sat transponder on there stb?
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> no
[17:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> technically I am
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> but I'd need to reinstall my dish and connect it up
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> and of course pay tvl
[17:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tvl is pretty much mandatory here.
[17:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> they just call it medialicens, so just having a internet connection enough.
[17:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is enouhg
[17:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> erh enough
[17:54] <fsphil_> I've got freesat rather than freeview
[17:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah yes thats what i mean, freesat, freeview is DVB-T
[17:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> can your stb show SNR on a transponder?
[17:55] <fsphil_> I'll check in a moment
[17:55] <fsphil_> I'm not actually sure
[17:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> here you need a licence to watch a live broadcast from a licences broadcast television service
[17:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SpeedEvil i just ment bbc itv etc
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> I avoid doing so.
[17:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> the one or Twp times I have regretted this was for BBC parliament
[17:59] <fsphil_> Hmm no. It just gives me a quality percentage
[17:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i can´t say i watch that either
[17:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok phil.
[17:59] <fsphil_> Quick is bouncing around quite a bit due to the snow
[17:59] <fsphil_> Which*
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[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> hello
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[18:06] <dharnke> on my uCenteer i can see blue colours in the tables, but no position. can someone tell me what they think, thanks
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> dharnke, does it say how may sats are connected?
[18:07] <dharnke> no
[18:08] <dharnke> on view--docking windows--satellite position, it is blank
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[18:09] <Laurenceb_> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65373000/jpg/_65373741_fear_comp.jpg
[18:09] <chrisstubbs> Sure you have a fix?
[18:10] <chrisstubbs> on teh Data View window you should have a "fix mode"
[18:11] <dharnke> im not sure, i have the ublox max6, but i have no idea if it is talking to the satellite
[18:11] <dharnke> it says "no fix"
[18:11] <chrisstubbs> Ok, do you have the arduino IDE installed or PUTTY?
[18:12] <dharnke> yep
[18:12] <chrisstubbs> you can use that to check if you are getting the serial data ok
[18:12] <dharnke> i check on the arduino serial, i get the data running, whether it is correct im not certain
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[18:13] <chrisstubbs> If you can see your lon/lat in it then you should have a fix
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> i think its in the $GPRMC string?
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> maybe its $GPGGA...
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> both
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> in general
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[18:15] <dharnke> "GPS Level Convertor Board Test Script 03/06/2012 2E0UPU Initialising.... Setting uBlox nav mode: B562624240FFFF63000010270050FA0FA06402C10000000000000016DC * Reading ACK response: B5625120624325B (SUCCESS!) $GPRMC,181405.00,V,,,,,,,180113,,,N*7E $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30 $GPGGA,181405.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*6F $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*30 $GPGSV,1,1,00*79 $GPGLL,,,,,181405.00,V,N*43"
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> ,,, strings in gpgga strings and such mean not locked
[18:15] <dharnke> is on the arduino serial
[18:16] <chrisstubbs> Yeah looks like you dont have a signal, try sticking it out the window on a USB extender!
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[18:19] <dharnke> in the data view under satellite i get nearly all boxes full with a blue colour
[18:20] <chrisstubbs> i _think_ they are supposed to go green when you have a fix
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[18:22] <fsphil> hehe, my satellite has stopped working completely now
[18:23] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/ublox.jpeg like so
[18:23] <dharnke> oh ok
[18:25] <dharnke> the gps is clearly looking for satellites because in the SATELLITE LEVEL HISTORY it shows a similar to your but in a blue colour
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[18:26] <chrisstubbs> Are you using it indoors?
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[18:27] <dharnke> yes
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> You can sometimes get a fix indoors, but it will get it a lot faster by an open window/outside
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> some windows are not gps transparent
[18:29] <lz1dev> lead infused windows
[18:29] <lz1dev> keeping GPS out of your house
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> naah
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> IR reflective windows
[18:29] <dharnke> i will check with an open window
[18:30] <chrisstubbs> Should work better if you can pop it outside on a window ledge
[18:30] <chrisstubbs> Brb guys
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[18:39] <fsphil> it's surprisingly slippy out there already
[18:43] <gb73d> im staying in, 3.5 inches snow today
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[18:45] <fsphil> wise
[18:46] <fsphil> I've done all I needa do today
[18:46] <fsphil> it's a night for being indoors
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[18:49] <SpeedEvil> I am regretting testing my ups today
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> as it won't be fully charged till tomorrow sometime
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[18:52] <fsphil> I just setup apcupsd on my server
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[18:52] <fsphil> just in-case
[18:52] <fsphil> I'd forgot to do it ages ago
[18:52] <fsphil> since our power has actually been really quite stable last year
[18:53] <fsphil> I need to figure out how to get the machine to restart after it's shut down
[18:54] <fsphil> but the power returns before the battery is empty
[18:54] <mfa298> best thing I've found for that is to set an alarm in the bios to turn on every day
[18:54] <mfa298> but might means it's off for a while.
[18:55] <mfa298> alternativly you want something that could do something like wake on lan
[18:55] <fsphil> that'd be handy
[18:55] <fsphil> I *think* the ups can be configured to shut down after the PC goes off
[18:56] <fsphil> then switch back on after a few seconds if mains power is back
[18:56] <mfa298> the other challenge is making sure the UPS comes back on.
[18:56] <mfa298> I think my UPS didn't turn itself back on after it has lost power and gone flat.
[18:57] <fsphil> this one has always come back on
[18:57] <fsphil> been a while since it's been tested though
[18:58] <mfa298> I decided it was easier to not bother with a UPS now, power seems to be fairly stable here.
[18:59] <mfa298> It also means I've got more SLA's to use for radio
[19:00] <jarod> Maxell: http://x264.nl/dump/52-2205/403.900mhz-vaisala-sgp-sonde-8715m.jpg
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> it was off 20h last winter here
[19:01] <fsphil> ah, looks like centos has the commands to kill the ups after shutdown
[19:01] <fsphil> the old version didn't
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> so, I decided to get a ups that will let me run normal loads for most of a day
[19:01] <fsphil> I imagine that's quite big
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> not that bad
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> 2*110ah batteries
[19:01] <fsphil> this is a teeny tiny thing
[19:02] <fsphil> they're actually not as important to me now, since I work more on the laptop
[19:03] <fsphil> it keeps the router and vdsl modem going at least
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> I want my electric blanket to work in the case of a power cut
[19:03] <mfa298> I think I've found half the problems is getting things to shutdown nicely - I'd have it protecting a machine with various virtual machines
[19:03] <arko> http://robotrising.org/2013/01/operation-stratosphere-conclusion/
[19:03] <arko> you guys see that?
[19:04] <fsphil> that the gopro ball?
[19:04] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: that sounds like a good reason for UPS or similar
[19:04] <fsphil> yea we've no way of heating the house during a power cut
[19:04] <arko> yeah
[19:04] <arko> pretty cool
[19:05] <x-f> SpeedEvil, why don't you get a generator?
[19:05] <arko> nice burst video too
[19:05] <fsphil> I had an idea, but no money, to build a big sphere with a walkway in the middle
[19:05] <fsphil> and project the videos onto the outside of the sphere
[19:05] <fsphil> so you could fly with the payload
[19:06] <fsphil> in a way
[19:06] <fsphil> kind of like a 360 degree planaterium
[19:06] <fsphil> planetarium*
[19:07] <fsphil> would make a good exhibit somewhere
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> x-f: gnerators don't start
[19:08] <arko> you saw that photoball right?
[19:08] <arko> someone made for cheap
[19:08] <arko> i forget
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[19:11] <fsphil> yea the one they threw into the air?
[19:11] <arko> ya
[19:11] <fsphil> indeed, that was cool
[19:11] <arko> http://jonaspfeil.de/ballcamera
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[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> I got something a bit shocking today
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> I pressed against my NTX2 by accident and it actually tilted a few degrees
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> and I had to tilt it back until it started to broadcast again
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it tilted in the solder joints
[19:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Make sure you re-solder all connectors. A cold solder joint WILL be a problem when the balloon is in the air.
[19:43] <DrLuke> so I wonder if attaching a soft-power-switch to the enable pin of a dc-dc-converter is a good practice
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> if you need to turn it off
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> KT5TK_QRL, yeah
[19:44] <DrLuke> lunar_lander: use more flux
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> thing is that it didn't react to cooling to -80°C
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> and now I just tilt it and that happens
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> OK
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[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> I was afraid that I have to pull apart the whole thing again now
[19:45] <DrLuke> are you using stripboard?
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[19:45] <DrLuke> or veroboard
[19:45] <fsphil> cooling it to -80 might have damaged it
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> protoboard
[19:45] <fsphil> why so cold?
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> the one without copper strips
[19:45] <fsphil> your payload will be lucky to see -20c
[19:46] <KT5TK_QRL> No, just look closely and find the actual point were it was broken.
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is what I told my professor but he said that we should try it down to that temperature anyway
[19:46] <DrLuke> yuck, protoboard is nasty to use in my opinion
[19:46] <costyn> lz1dev: i saw you updated github; live on habhub too?
[19:46] <daveake> Lunar_Lander Sometimes it's best to tell your professor he's wrong
[19:46] <DrLuke> lunar_lander: most off-the-shelf components only are rated to -20°C
[19:46] <DrLuke> below that they will be damaged
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:47] <DrLuke> can be*
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> so I think we are lucky that everything works well still
[19:47] <DrLuke> yep
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> for example
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> a 3x AA ultimate lithium package had 4.8 V of voltage before putting it into the kitchen freezer at -15°C
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> the next day it had the same voltage
[19:48] <DrLuke> did you expect that?
[19:49] <KT5TK_QRL> You'll see the effect only with a load
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> true, the next thing I did was hooking it up to my cutdown
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> the wire got hot enough to melt the cord
[19:49] <daveake> Indeed. It's the internal resistance that goes up as temp goes down
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> but it didn't get the wire to glow as it did before
[19:52] <fsphil> I'm not sure I'd trust parts that have been cooled below their minimum storage temperature
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[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, why exactly?
[20:01] <fsphil> they wouldn't have a minimum safe storage temperature for no reason
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> but storage
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't store them at these temperatures
[20:01] <fsphil> you stored them in a freezer
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> just as long as they needed to cool down
[20:02] <fsphil> doesn't matter
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:02] <DrLuke> usually the storage temps are lower than the operating temps
[20:03] <DrLuke> and cooling it too much could result in cracks in the silicone I could imagine
[20:03] <DrLuke> resulting in a loss of reliability
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> do you think it is still OK for flight?
[20:05] <DrLuke> test it thoroughly
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:05] <DrLuke> there probably is no damage
[20:05] <DrLuke> but who knows
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> the duration tests last year were made after some of the freezer tests
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and they used all the components that are on the current board
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. the GPS, the NTX2 and so on
[20:06] <fsphil> yea the stress might reduce the life of the components
[20:08] <DrLuke> I think it should be alright
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> DS18B20 test http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/b/e/5yvpu8-kjbl7j-wwc3/IMG6540.jpeg
[20:13] <eroomde> i think your next test should be a balloon test
[20:13] <eroomde> where you buy a balloon
[20:13] <eroomde> and put some helium in it
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea xD
[20:13] <eroomde> and attach the payload
[20:13] <Upu> +1
[20:13] <fsphil> no better test :)
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[20:16] <DrLuke> lol
[20:17] <DrLuke> inb4 a bug that could've been prevented makes it cut off itself
[20:17] <costyn> eroomde: :D
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke, how do you mean?
[20:18] <DrLuke> could've been prevented by testing*
[20:18] <DrLuke> nevermind :P
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I remember that project SHARPs balloon triggered the cutdown at 8 km on the first try
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> that wasn't so good
[20:18] <DrLuke> well yeah, there goes 200¬
[20:19] <DrLuke> I should create a learning algorithm for my cutdown which outputs a confidentiality
[20:20] <DrLuke> and if that confidentiality rises above a certain level, cut it off
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> sounds interesting
[20:20] <DrLuke> I've done some learning algorithms before when I wrote a really crude character recognition thing in python
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> something like OCR?
[20:21] <DrLuke> yeah
[20:21] <DrLuke> basically
[20:21] <DrLuke> except it was really crude
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD do you know the commercial for analphabets?
[20:21] <DrLuke> but it could differentiate between an 8 and a 5
[20:21] <DrLuke> lol yeah
[20:21] <DrLuke> alfa telefon münster
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> where the guy comes to the eye doctor and like doesn't know the letter A
[20:21] <eroomde> confidence
[20:21] <eroomde> confidentiality means something else
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> and the doctor makes the letter bigger and bigger
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:22] <DrLuke> eroomde: oh yeah, right :P
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yeah the latter thing is like for papers
[20:22] <DrLuke> my brain is just so mushy right now
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke, or the Audi repair guy
[20:22] <DrLuke> I can't even english
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> "Ein Deckel und kein Dickel, eine Scheibe und keine Schäbe"
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:22] <DrLuke> I don't know that one
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[20:23] <DrLuke> oh well, I'm off to see a movie, cya
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[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi radim_OM2AMR
[20:27] <radim_OM2AMR> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[20:29] <radim_OM2AMR> fine, thanks, I forgot to say, that your tracker is better and better :-)
[20:29] <radim_OM2AMR> I saw the picture the night before STS-2 flight here
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> ohh how was STS-2?
[20:30] <radim_OM2AMR> STS-2, a lot of issues :-( I have to investigate errors during this weekend
[20:31] <radim_OM2AMR> fortunately Canon did good job http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.536769766357594.124308.341510389216867&type=1
[20:32] <radim_OM2AMR> &and some launch and chase photo - http://stsproject.net/?p=933
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[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:37] <radim_OM2AMR> the one of the issues was that openlog recorded 12 MB of "chinese tea" instead of telemetry data :-(
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh!
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[20:39] <radim_OM2AMR> same openlog and same SD card as from STS-1, maybe SD card is corrupted, because there are some visible traces of correct lines, like 00: from GPS time, or $$ST.. from $$STS-2
[20:39] <eroomde> our new snow clearing prototype
[20:39] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rocketengines/8393125534/
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:41] <radim_OM2AMR> eroomde, you have to go to Heathrow with that engine :-)
[20:43] <eroomde> mmm
[20:44] <eroomde> i want to fly from heathrow on sunday
[20:44] <eroomde> so definately
[20:44] <radim_OM2AMR> :-D
[20:44] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, what do you say to our "Houston" ? :-)
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:46] <eroomde> a bar for an hq
[20:46] <eroomde> genius
[20:48] <radim_OM2AMR> :-) is it our base station for our flights, good playfield for launching to any direction
[20:50] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, so when will you fly your payload ?
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> there is an exam at the end of the month
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> and we got a lot of snow at the moment
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> what about february/march?
[20:51] <radim_OM2AMR> yes, and a lot of jet-streams too
[20:52] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, great, so I will looking forward to your launch
[20:54] <radim_OM2AMR> I think better will be march/april, when the temperatures for chasing will be warmer :-) and no snow of course
[20:55] <arko> eroomde: dude! nice video
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Are there any instructions out there for what exactly is needed when filling a balloon with hydrogen?
[20:56] <arko> 1) Don't die
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> Haha good start!
[20:57] <arko> avoid static, hot days, concave/convex clear objects
[20:58] <KT5TK_QRL> 2) don't let the hydrogen explode while smoking
[20:58] <arko> 3) Use He
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> Hmmmm Helium would be nice, but the price of hydrogen is what draws me to it
[20:59] <arko> i'll pay $100 more any day to not die
[21:01] <eroomde> yo arko
[21:01] <eroomde> ta
[21:01] <arko> whats the fuel?
[21:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Well the danger of dying when using h2 is often overstated, but simply be careful
[21:01] <eroomde> that's still CO+O2
[21:01] <arko> oh cool
[21:02] <eroomde> just from a random angle as didn;t want to put the 5d outside in the blizzard
[21:02] <eroomde> i shall be your compatriot in less than 48hrs
[21:02] <eroomde> infact should be landing in almost exactly 48hrs
[21:03] <arko> woah
[21:03] <arko> nice
[21:03] <arko> btw, my friend who owns the condo is out of town when you're in town
[21:03] <arko> dont think his place will work out :/
[21:03] <arko> sorry dude
[21:04] <eroomde> np
[21:04] <eroomde> will figure something out
[21:04] <arko> hear back from tom?
[21:04] <eroomde> not yet
[21:04] <chrisstubbs> KT5TK_QRL thats what I had heard too, precautions will be taken. I understand people use PVC pipe in the neck of the balloon, with i guess the hose just glued into the other end?
[21:04] <arko> kk
[21:05] <arko> so i assume you dont have the LA days locked down yet
[21:06] <eroomde> not yet
[21:06] <arko> no worries
[21:06] <eroomde> but i still think roughly that week
[21:06] <eroomde> mon-thurs/fri
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[21:06] <eroomde> something like that
[21:06] <arko> cool
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[21:06] <arko> monday i can take off
[21:07] <eroomde> only yesterday got the NY accomodation sorted :)
[21:07] <arko> or just meet up at night for drinks
[21:07] <arko> ha!
[21:07] <arko> tuesday hackerspace stuff
[21:07] <eroomde> awesome
[21:07] <arko> wed for tom maybe
[21:07] <arko> i dunno, up to you
[21:08] <eroomde> yep thsat's what i'm hoping for
[21:08] <eroomde> i've noticed he has like a 2-3 day reply cycle
[21:08] <eroomde> so am not flapping yet
[21:09] <arko> yeah, busy dude
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[21:09] <eroomde> no idea about thurs yet
[21:09] <eroomde> maybe a celebrity buss tour
[21:09] <eroomde> right up my street
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[21:12] <arko> hahaha
[21:12] <arko> TOURIST
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> LIKE A BUS!
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[21:14] <eroomde> i just remembered webrings
[21:14] <eroomde> the web used to be a better place
[21:15] <arko> dude
[21:16] <arko> screw celebrity crap, see the space shuttle!!
[21:18] Action: arko is going to see the shuttle again sunday :D
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[21:34] <eroomde> arko: where is it?
[21:34] <arko> California Science Center
[21:34] <arko> near downtown LA
[21:34] <arko> http://www.californiasciencecenter.org/
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewitem?itemId=281052567840
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> haha
[21:35] <eroomde> that'd do it
[21:35] <eroomde> can you go inside?
[21:35] Action: SpeedEvil would be more impressed with the space shuttle if it hadn't held back space progress by decades.
[21:39] <eroomde> i think shuttle appreciation has a quadratic curve
[21:39] <eroomde> interest on the y axis
[21:39] <eroomde> engineering nerdiness on the x axis
[21:40] <eroomde> on the left 'wow shuttle cool!'
[21:40] <eroomde> at the root, 'i'd would be more impressed with the space shuttle if it hadn't held back space progress by decades.
[21:40] <eroomde> '
[21:40] <eroomde> over on the right
[21:41] <eroomde> wow looks at the grroving on the reaf face of the turbopump turbine! this must be how they solved the sealing problem. hmm i wonder if i can adapt that...
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[21:43] <Laurenceb_> now you make it sound interesting
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> photos required
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: wtf
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> is that legit?!
[21:43] <arko> eroomde: you cant go inside
[21:43] <arko> cant even touch it
[21:43] <eroomde> can you study the shaft seals on the turbopump?
[21:43] <arko> from 5m away
[21:44] <arko> :P
[21:44] <eroomde> like, 'hey guys i'll catch you up at dinner. it's me and my camera phone and my steel rule i brought with me to put in the photos for scale'
[21:44] <arko> haha
[21:44] <eroomde> which nearly got me ejected from the science museum last time
[21:44] <arko> bring a zoom lens
[21:44] <arko> dude!
[21:44] <arko> nice
[21:44] <arko> hahaha
[21:44] <eroomde> tampering with the exhibit
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:45] <arko> you're doing it right
[21:45] <arko> :P
[21:45] <arko> reminds me of the time i got kicked out of Frys Electronics for taking apart their roomba
[21:45] <eroomde> hoping to go to the rolls royce heritage museum when i get back
[21:45] <eroomde> to have a tour and chat with John Scott Scott who designed half the rockets there
[21:45] <arko> woah
[21:46] <arko> where is that?
[21:46] <eroomde> and says things like 'turbopumps are easy i don;t understand why every fusses' but has the chops to back it up
[21:46] <arko> london?
[21:46] <eroomde> no, north of england somewhere
[21:46] <eroomde> it's more of a hangar
[21:46] <eroomde> but you can get up close and ersonal
[21:46] <arko> that would be awesome to see
[21:46] <arko> for now
[21:46] <eroomde> wll, i have lots of questions to ask him
[21:46] <eroomde> i want to be Good At Turbopumps
[21:47] <arko> i need to learn how they work (other than concept)
[21:47] <eroomde> well, that's really the problem. conceptually simple, designing a good one is a bit piggy
[21:47] <eroomde> unless you're john scott-scott
[21:48] <arko> right
[21:48] <arko> if i only had more time
[21:48] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPpauFbnIA
[21:52] <arko> wow
[21:54] <eroomde> mmm
[21:54] <fsphil> those engines are lovely
[21:54] <eroomde> the history of british rockets right there
[21:54] <arko> i want more info
[21:54] <arko> damn it
[21:54] <arko> stories and those things are always fun
[21:54] <eroomde> made a very decent small launcher with a few guys in a shed and plenty of tea, could have been the start of something great
[21:54] <arko> id love to see and see how they actually saved cost
[21:55] <eroomde> the french pushed ahead and ended up with arieane
[21:55] <eroomde> we've been dead, launcher-wise, ever since
[21:55] <eroomde> though working hard to fix that
[21:55] <fsphil> it is a crime that black arrow wasn't continued
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[21:56] <eroomde> well, partly it was that there was no option. for every 1000 people nasa had, we had maybe 6 and a modest supply of pipe tobacco
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[21:56] <eroomde> so there was little choice. but they definitely had the small teams and low overheads advantage
[21:56] <eroomde> technicians and machinists and designers all under the same roof
[21:57] <eroomde> but on the couple of occassions i've talked to him, you say 'ah but how did you do this really complicated thing?'
[21:57] <eroomde> and he says
[21:58] <number10> UK is only country to successfully launch a satellite and abandon the capability
[21:58] <fsphil> the US did that for manned spaceflight .. for the moment anyway
[21:58] <eroomde> 'well, it's not that complicated is it. don;t need a computer, just this equation..."
[21:58] <jarod> http://io9.com/5977193/did-nasa-delete-evidence-of-ufos-from-its-photo-archive?
[21:58] <eroomde> and off he goes
[21:59] <eroomde> they usually designed a 90% solution, built it, and refined it by practical testing
[21:59] <fsphil> does he still work on it today eroomde?
[21:59] <eroomde> nope
[21:59] <eroomde> v retired
[21:59] <eroomde> but was working on skylon until recently
[21:59] <fsphil> he sounds like he'd be great to have in a team
[21:59] <eroomde> totally
[21:59] <arko> srsly
[21:59] <eroomde> but i think he was a bit unwell recently
[21:59] <arko> :(
[22:00] <eroomde> but yes, he was/is one of those one-man engineering armies
[22:00] <eroomde> he's designed some cool stuff
[22:00] <arko> he seems like at his current age that he's pretty much there
[22:00] <eroomde> biprop rocket engines for assisted takeoff for jets
[22:00] <eroomde> the buckaneer i think
[22:00] <arko> most nasa old folks i've met are kinda "mmm yes yes, uh huh" and dont remember a whole lot
[22:01] <eroomde> and some gucci turbopumps the size of a coke can that ran at 500,000rpm and generated like 200kW of power
[22:01] <eroomde> apparently the compressor and the turbine just looked like knurling on a stubby shaft
[22:02] <eroomde> this one was used on the bucaneer
[22:02] <eroomde> one of his designs
[22:02] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Siddeley_605
[22:02] <arko> knurling?
[22:02] <eroomde> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=knurling&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=gsb5UM-cMI6Y0QXu1oHoCQ&biw=1304&bih=670&sei=iMb5UJDaL9Gz0QXp-4HoDg
[22:03] <eroomde> where you pattern a shaft on a lathe
[22:03] <eroomde> usually for knobs
[22:03] <eroomde> the nice thing about this bucaneer engine was that it got started by decomposing a little peroxide through a silver catalyst pack to charge up the turbine on the tubopump
[22:03] <arko> jarod: screw io9
[22:04] <eroomde> which then provided the main pumping
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> jarod: if its real its probably something classified
[22:04] <arko> oh neat
[22:05] <arko> eroomde: whats the advantage of that?
[22:05] <arko> not knurling
[22:06] <eroomde> oh, just means you don;t need a separate precombustor
[22:06] <eroomde> you can just use one of the propellents to drive the turbine
[22:06] <eroomde> just simpler plumbing and cheaper and you can basically do staged combustion more easily
[22:06] <eroomde> which is a more efficient rocket cycle
[22:07] <arko> oh neat
[22:07] <arko> are those tubes at the end for cooling?
[22:07] <arko> i've never see it like that
[22:07] <arko> looks like an engine block
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Earth_Orbit_STS_088.html
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> debris
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> probably classified
[22:08] <eroomde> yes they are for cooling
[22:08] <eroomde> the fuel gets passed through them before being injected
[22:09] <arko> does it act as a heater for the fuel as well as coolant?
[22:09] <arko> do you even need to heat the fuel?
[22:09] <eroomde> yes it does both
[22:10] <arko> cool
[22:10] <eroomde> infact there is a think called the Expander Cycle that relies entirely on heat transfer from the cooling channels to drive a turbine for the pump
[22:10] <arko> wow
[22:10] <arko> smart
[22:10] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expander_cycle_(rocket)
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[22:11] <eroomde> it is smart
[22:11] <eroomde> we have cunning plans in that regard
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> does it involve underpants?
[22:12] <fsphil> so cunning it steals food out of your bins at night?
[22:12] <arko> nice
[22:12] <arko> i like this
[22:13] <arko> what are the limits though?
[22:13] <arko> possible risks?
[22:13] <eroomde> limits are size
[22:13] <eroomde> wiki explains
[22:14] <eroomde> only works on smaller engines where the engine wall surface area to gas volume ratio is lower
[22:14] <eroomde> smaller as in, 30 tonnes of thrust or less
[22:14] <eroomde> which is plenty
[22:14] <eroomde> the engines in black arrow were about 2.5 tonnes
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> or clustering of course
[22:15] <eroomde> that's what i mean
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:16] <eroomde> so black arrow today:
[22:16] <eroomde> say 200kg to LEO
[22:17] <eroomde> we can do lox/methane and get a specific impulse way better than h2o2/keroscene
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> i still prefer explorer 1
[22:17] <eroomde> we can do composites to shave a bunch of fuel tank mass
[22:17] <eroomde> electronics mass saving is a no-brainer
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> for ultimate simple rocket
[22:17] <arko> Laurenceb_: represent!
[22:17] <arko> :P
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> or multiple stages
[22:17] <eroomde> we can do clever altitude saving nozzles which might buy you another few percent on ISP
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> but yeah black arrow used room temperature propellants
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> so composite tanks would work
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> explorer1 was very clever
[22:18] <eroomde> composite + cryo is not necessarily impossible
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> that is nice about h2o2
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> no boil off, or cryo or frostong issues
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> course it has problems of its own
[22:19] <eroomde> indeed
[22:19] <eroomde> just buying it vs buying Lox is an adventure in paperwork
[22:19] <eroomde> and cost
[22:19] <eroomde> and all for lower performance
[22:20] <eroomde> if you're going to have passive molecules along for the ride in the exgaust, water isn;t the best
[22:20] <eroomde> hydrogen would be better
[22:21] <eroomde> but yeah, i think one could redo black arrow sufficiently well to make a compelling smallsat launcher today
[22:21] <eroomde> especially if you can do some major cost-sabing party tricks
[22:21] <eroomde> saving*
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[22:23] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: there was a source willing to ship http
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> but they went away
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> HTP
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> cheap(ish)
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[22:24] <SpeedEvil> 600¬ for pallet of 180l
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> but ...
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> I don't see what's inherently terrible about staging, if you do it at very low Q
[22:29] <eroomde> well, i guess it's not inherent
[22:29] <eroomde> it's practical
[22:29] <eroomde> you keep throwing very expensive bits of hardware away
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> if they are very expensive
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[22:31] Action: SpeedEvil mehs.
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[22:32] <eroomde> they almost always are
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> just get nebulae aerospace guy on the job
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> I had some very cheap ideas, but not developed
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> problem solved
[22:33] <eroomde> even dumb boosters are expensive enough that you put triple-redundant everything in your sat because launching a replacement would be expensive, and between the sat and the launcher you're instantly at maybe $500M
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[22:34] <SpeedEvil> basically, just give up on the idea of nice margins to a degree, throw an extra stage or two in there
[22:34] <eroomde> less with SpaceX doing $100M launches or whatever it is now, but you still go for the $100M gold plated sat instead of the $10M sat that does the same thing but without the redundacy at those kinds of prices
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> and test lots before flying
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> this was aimed at 10kg ish pauloads
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> it doesn't scale
[22:35] <eroomde> no
[22:35] <eroomde> i'd be surprised if you could seel that to a customer for less than about $100,000/kg
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> lots of things dont scale
[22:35] <eroomde> sell*
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> i came up with some interesting n prize ideas
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> but theres no point
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> as they dont scale
[22:36] <arko> its all about how expensive and important the satellite is
[22:37] <arko> more the cost than anything else
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[22:37] <arko> spacex is offereing a $10M flight?
[22:38] <eroomde> is it?
[22:38] <eroomde> $100M i said
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> im offering a $1 flight
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> you can jump off the top of my house
[22:38] <arko> oh derp
[22:38] <arko> read that wrong
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[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: do you supply the kick motor?
[22:39] <arko> Lauranceb_: what options do we have on mission reliability?
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[22:39] <arko> is your roof tested?
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[22:39] <eroomde> if you could launch your 15 tonne telecoms bus for $15M, then you might aswell build three simpler versions and just replace them if one goes down
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> foot works as a kick motor
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[22:40] <arko> wait, where is this $15M launch coming from?
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> shared launches
[22:41] <arko> derp
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> i dont understand povray
[22:41] <eroomde> arko: a fully reusable single stage to orbit spaceplane
[22:42] <eroomde> not shared launches
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> i model foam with 3d bubbles, it doesnt care at all
[22:42] <eroomde> you dont share launches when you're 15T
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> enable antialiasing and try and model foam, it kills the processor
[22:42] <arko> yeah i was gonna say
[22:42] <arko> 15T
[22:42] <arko> thats a shit load
[22:42] <arko> for 15M
[22:42] <arko> thats impossible
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=243334 <- took 1hour to get that far.. wtf
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[22:43] <eroomde> it is at the moment
[22:43] <arko> what are you using to render?
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> secret stuff...
[22:44] <arko> cant wait for octane to finally give you cloud rendering
[22:44] <arko> one of my best friends is vp of engineering there and working on that at the moment
[22:44] <arko> should be sweet
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> hmm that looks nice
[22:44] <arko> autodesk inventor will have that
[22:44] <arko> too
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> this sort of stuff is crying out for gpu acceleration
[22:45] <arko> wait
[22:45] <arko> is this ray tracing or path tracing
[22:45] <arko> looks like ray
[22:45] <arko> since you dont have the whole image
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> yes its ray
[22:45] <arko> <3 path tracing
[22:45] <arko> your gpu hates you
[22:46] <arko> but it looks nice
[22:46] <arko> once its done
[22:46] <arko> which is never
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> i think the foam caused the antialiasing to go mad
[22:46] <arko> lol
[22:46] <eroomde> gnuplot needs work too
[22:46] <eroomde> i wants to render all 2 million datapoints if you give it that many
[22:47] <arko> chrome doesn't help much either
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> its recursing to ~infinity
[22:47] <eroomde> wont just sumsample to the number of pixels then render
[22:47] <eroomde> that would be sensible
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> also the antialiasing is a bit goofy
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> with a ton of noisy data it ends up looking more noisy than it really is
[22:48] <arko> yeah
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> i think the antialiasing overshoots or something
[22:48] <arko> it's not always a good thing
[22:52] <arko> translucent objects will look like shit
[22:53] <arko> bah
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[22:58] <arko> man, im running on fumes
[22:58] <arko> long day
[22:58] <arko> and it's only 3pm
[22:59] <eroomde> coffee and toast
[22:59] <eroomde> maybe smoke a pipe
[22:59] <eroomde> meditate all 4 things at once
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[23:00] <arko> lol
[23:00] <arko> eroomde: do you smoke?
[23:01] <arko> cigars?
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[23:02] <arko> we have a very nice cigar shop in pasadena
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[23:02] <fsphil> yucks
[23:02] <arko> i havent had a cigar in a long time
[23:03] <fsphil> they're vile things
[23:03] <arko> :P
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[23:03] <eroomde> arko: no
[23:03] <eroomde> except
[23:03] <eroomde> sometimes if v drunk
[23:03] <arko> lol
[23:04] <eroomde> wake up the next morning, go through the boot process
[23:04] <arko> i never like cigarrettes
[23:04] <eroomde> 'legs? yes, arms? yes, right bed? yes'
[23:04] <eroomde> etc
[23:04] <arko> lol
[23:04] <arko> bios system check
[23:04] <eroomde> and occassionally become aware of a fucking horrendous taste in my mouthe
[23:04] <fsphil> keyboard not found. press F1 to continue
[23:04] <eroomde> which suggests i was persuaded to have a cigar the previous night
[23:05] <arko> wait, do they call cigarrettes cigars?
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[23:05] <eroomde> no
[23:05] <arko> ok, i forget which country does that
[23:05] <fsphil> fags
[23:05] <arko> lol
[23:05] <arko> sorry
[23:05] <fsphil> cancer sticks
[23:05] <eroomde> we have the same understanding of it as u, i think
[23:05] <arko> yeah i hate those
[23:05] <fsphil> my nieces recently started calling them those
[23:05] <arko> cant stand it
[23:05] <fsphil> I thought it was a reference to the X-Files
[23:05] <fsphil> turns out they don't even know what the X-Files are
[23:06] <arko> :P
[23:06] <arko> it's sad, that show hasn't held up as well over time
[23:06] <fsphil> definitely not
[23:06] <fsphil> I watched a few lately and it's just, meh
[23:07] <arko> yeah
[23:07] <fsphil> still like mulder and scully though, good team
[23:07] <arko> i remember watching it as a kid and freaking out
[23:07] <fsphil> and if they made another movie I'd totally see it
[23:07] <arko> now im just calling bs
[23:07] <arko> lol
[23:09] <arko> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ugUxH2k1QQo/UPi5mDisDeI/AAAAAAAAaRo/4LI5qiJ27Tg/s494/if-dr-seuss-books-were-titled-according-to-their-2.jpeg
[23:09] <eroomde> our sponsor has a cigar named after him
[23:09] <eroomde> http://www.regiuscigars.com/th-regius-cigar-range/
[23:09] <eroomde> bottom one
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[23:10] <arko> lol
[23:10] <arko> what
[23:10] <arko> why is there a warning?
[23:10] <arko> uk?
[23:10] <arko> w/e
[23:10] <arko> neato
[23:11] <arko> hmm, is weed illegal in uk?
[23:11] <arko> jw, i dont smoke that crap
[23:11] <Upu> weed is, tobacco isn't
[23:11] <arko> figured
[23:11] <arko> it's practically legal in california
[23:11] <arko> if you are caught with it you get a ticket
[23:11] <arko> and thats it
[23:12] <arko> like $40 or something i forget
[23:12] <Upu> I think its about the same here
[23:12] <Upu> you just get a telling off
[23:12] <arko> ah
[23:13] <eroomde> selling it gets u in trouble tho
[23:13] <Upu> I think the upgraded it recently
[23:13] <Upu> No idea don't smoke anything personally
[23:14] <arko> yeah, never seemed appealing to me
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[23:15] <arko> i want to go work on my hab :(
[23:16] <arko> parts arrived but still in boxes
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[23:18] <arko> man i love Beyond Compare
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> lol that cigar site looks like pron
[23:20] <arko> lol right? with the warning label and all
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[23:43] <jarod> following a weather ballon on 403.9mhz now, tip from bertrik
[23:44] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/52-2205/403.900mhz-H2743970-2013-01-18-6703m.jpg
[23:44] <jarod> 9km now, climbing
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[23:44] <arko> nice!
[23:45] <arko> no gps lock?
[23:46] <fsphil> it will only decode if SondeMonitor has recent copy of the gps almanac
[23:47] <fsphil> and the receivers location
[23:47] <arko> ah
[23:47] <fsphil> something about the way those sondes transmit the data -- they're not full gps decoders
[23:47] <arko> bizzar
[23:49] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/52-2205/403.900mhz-H2743970-2013-01-18-sdrsharp.jpg
[23:50] <jarod> the gps almanac <-- whats that?
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[23:53] <jarod> fsphil
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> presumably they transmit raw correlator data
[23:53] <jarod> can you explain what we need?
[23:54] <fsphil> jarod: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsAlmanacs
[23:54] <fsphil> "Current SEM Almanac"
[23:54] <fsphil> download the .al3 file
[23:55] <fsphil> sondemonitor can load that
[23:55] <jarod> and then?
[23:55] <jarod> ok
[23:55] <jarod> how?
[23:55] <fsphil> don't recall exactly
[23:55] <fsphil> there's a function called GPS Arm somewhere
[23:55] <fsphil> you'll also need to put in the coordinates (roughtly) of the launch site
[23:55] <fsphil> it should begin decoding
[23:56] <jarod> no idea of launch site... bertrik ?
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[23:56] <jarod> fsphil any idea where to load in sonde monitor?
[23:57] <fsphil> http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS02/RS02C.html
[23:57] <fsphil> lists launch sites
[23:57] <fsphil> I really don't recall jarod
[23:57] <fsphil> there are GPS functions in one of the menus
[23:57] <fsphil> I don't have it installed here
[23:57] <fsphil> can't check
[23:58] <jarod> De Bilt - EHDB - 06260 then
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 19 2013