highaltitude.log.20130110

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[06:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[07:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Re: Hyowee 800g floater?"
[07:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Hyowee 800g floater?"
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[07:58] <costyn> gutmerning
[07:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[07:58] <UpuWork> hola
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[08:21] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
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[08:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[08:29] <costyn> heh
[08:30] <costyn> National Guard eh
[08:30] <costyn> this guy has connections
[08:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[08:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[08:33] <UpuWork> thats it
[08:33] <UpuWork> best advice in HAB
[08:33] <UpuWork> if in doubt add more gas
[08:33] <costyn> needs moar stirks!
[08:33] <UpuWork> absolutely
[08:33] <costyn> 9:00 AM 'lunch'. impressively early lunch :P
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[08:34] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
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[08:50] <UpuWork> btw I wasn't suggesting a 800 would float
[08:51] <UpuWork> I just felt 4m/s was too low considering he's got more water round him than we have
[08:51] <Darkside> yeah
[08:51] <Darkside> i wouldn't have expected a float either
[08:51] <daveake> Yeah
[08:51] <Darkside> not wth a 800g
[08:52] <UpuWork> However he did make a big song and dance and very long thread about keeping his camera dry
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[08:57] <daveake> yep
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[09:39] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[09:40] <fsphil> We added a few stirks to yesterdays launch. probably what saved us from the lake
[09:40] <daveake> :)
[09:41] <RocketBoy> we used some uStirks in #10s flight
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[09:45] <RocketBoy> bbl - time to get up - breakfast calls
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[09:58] <daveake> Nice one fsphil http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20959699
[09:59] <Darkside> where's phils name tho
[09:59] <daveake> Sadly not there
[10:00] <daveake> Didn't even get his 15 minutes
[10:00] <fsphil> typical
[10:00] <Daviey> fsphil: What diameter drogue is that?
[10:00] <Daviey> infatc, is there a writeup?
[10:01] <fsphil> not yet, the club is doing one I believe
[10:01] <daveake> fsphil Did the Spot(s) work all through the flight?
[10:01] <fsphil> it didn't seem to work at all
[10:02] <fsphil> it shows the launch site, and where they built up the payload
[10:02] <daveake> hah
[10:02] <Daviey> fsphil: what was your primary telemetry?
[10:03] <fsphil> rtty on 434mhz
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[10:04] <fsphil> that quote from Graeme was actually me, and I didn't mention the club
[10:05] <fsphil> I'd mentioned that it was the easiest flight I'd ever done, especially the recovery
[10:05] <daveake> fsphil Welcome to the media, where they never let facts get in the way of a good story
[10:07] <fsphil> it was good fun though
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[10:07] <fsphil> the fog made for some nice pictures
[10:07] <RocketBoy> one wonders if they don't in fact write the story beforehand
[10:07] <costyn> fsphil: yea good flight. that landing spot was just amazing :)
[10:08] <costyn> RocketBoy: wouldn't suprise me
[10:08] <fsphil> http://telly.com/04P2RC
[10:09] <daveake> IM(very limited)E, a very small percentage of journos bother to ask their story to be checked before they publish.
[10:10] <costyn> fsphil: whats this? sunlight? in Ireland?
[10:10] <fsphil> scary eh!
[10:10] <costyn> fsphil: smells like a hoax
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[10:11] <fsphil> no-one must know!
[10:11] <fsphil> I mean, of course it wasn't
[10:15] <costyn> hehe
[10:16] <costyn> amazingly I'm seeing sunbeams outside here too
[10:16] <costyn> precursor to colder weather apparently
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[10:21] <fsphil> the launch was the only sunny part of this
[10:21] <fsphil> the fog was pretty constant
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[10:35] <eroomde> arko: am now
[10:35] <eroomde> suspect you are not though
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[10:44] <Laurenceb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20959699
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[11:04] <Thorsten_> Dave are you here ?
[11:08] <Darkside> nope
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[11:24] Action: fsphil has a Stargate episode 200 flashback
[11:25] <Darkside> oh man
[11:25] <Darkside> yes
[11:25] <fsphil> his best line ever
[11:25] <Darkside> when th ecolonel was invisible
[11:25] <Darkside> fsphil: nope
[11:25] <Darkside> not even close
[11:25] <Darkside> the best line ever was:
[11:25] <Darkside> and i'll give you one guess as to this
[11:26] <Darkside> (go on, guess)
[11:26] <fsphil> there are so many
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[11:26] <Darkside> i think you might know the one
[11:26] <Darkside> hint: he kind of shouts it
[11:27] <fsphil> the golf one?
[11:27] <Darkside> yesss
[11:27] <fsphil> indeed
[11:27] <Darkside> "IN THE MIDDLE OF MY BACKSWING?"
[11:27] <Darkside> best episode ever
[11:27] <Darkside> though 200 is pretty good too
[11:27] <Darkside> "Teal'c: P.I"
[11:27] <Darkside> "Indeed"
[11:27] <fsphil> haha
[11:28] <fsphil> loved that bit
[11:28] <fsphil> they totally need to do that show
[11:28] <Darkside> yes
[11:29] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhFJ7VSqrE
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[11:30] <Darkside> OMG
[11:30] <Darkside> fsphil: thats that guy
[11:30] <Darkside> from SGU
[11:31] <Spoz> hiya
[11:31] <Darkside> fsphil: hahaha
[11:31] <Darkside> oh man
[11:31] <Darkside> i don't remember this
[11:31] <fsphil> it is isn't it
[11:32] <fsphil> hey Spoz
[11:33] <Spoz> whats happening?
[11:34] <fsphil> not too much, been a quiet morning
[11:34] Action: Hibby runs in and runs out again screaming
[11:35] <Hibby> speak for yourself, phil...
[11:35] <Spoz> hehe
[11:35] <Hibby> shipping thousands of pounds worth of antennas
[11:36] <fsphil> hopefully they all receive them
[11:39] <Hibby> going to one place, which is fine
[11:41] <Hibby> but it's 10 colinears and 3 folded dipole stacks, all 410-480mhz... and I want them not to break.
[11:44] <Spoz> hm, how do I assign a unique ID to my telemetry packets for habitat
[11:44] <Spoz> considering the avr might have watchdog resets
[11:44] <fsphil> we find that useful as we can tell when the computer has reset
[11:44] <fsphil> although if you want to store it between resets you'll need to store it in the eepron
[11:44] <Spoz> oh is that what it's for
[11:44] <fsphil> eeprom
[11:45] <Hibby> +1 counter stored in a register?
[11:45] <fsphil> eepron is something else entirely
[11:45] <Spoz> I mean, if I just set the id = millis()
[11:45] <Spoz> and it watchdog resets a few times
[11:45] <Spoz> then that wont disrupt the habitat format
[11:45] <Hibby> then you run the potential of having 'repeat' packets...
[11:46] <eroomde> with apologies to james
[11:46] <Hibby> hahah
[11:46] <fsphil> store it in the eeprom
[11:46] <Hibby> that's new...
[11:46] <Spoz> hm ok
[11:46] <Spoz> hopefully I can do that in the ISR
[11:48] <Spoz> ugh maybe I'll just do it in python on the receiving end
[11:48] <Spoz> my flight computer doesnt need unique packets
[11:48] <fsphil> what are you trying to do?
[11:48] <Spoz> I have built my own tracker but I want to also use the spacenear.us thingy
[11:48] <Spoz> so I need to port my current format over to them
[11:49] <Spoz> and my packets don't have a sentence ID
[11:49] <mfa298> The other question might be, do you expect the AVR to get reset by the watchdog ?
[11:49] <Spoz> I hope not
[11:49] <Spoz> in testing it has happened but I think I have worked out those issues now
[11:49] <fsphil> spacenear might be able to handle the count going back, it does happen sometimes but I honestly can't remember if it continued to map correctly
[11:50] <Spoz> I think I'll just tack on a sentence ID using my receiving code
[11:50] <Spoz> since the receiver will likely start only once, and I can save the last ID to a file easily if I need to restart it
[11:50] <mfa298> My impression is that most people just use a couter that gets cleared if there's a reset, with resets being a fairly rare occurace
[11:50] <Spoz> hm ok
[11:50] <Spoz> well thats even easier
[11:51] <mfa298> but if you want to make it persistant eeprom is probably the way to go but it takes a few clock cycles to read/write to eeprom.
[11:53] <Spoz> yeah my ISR code doesnt run if I try to do too much in it
[11:53] <Spoz> and I think Im at the limit already
[11:54] <fsphil> or calculate your ID from the gps time
[11:54] <fsphil> it should survive reset
[11:54] <mfa298> might be possible to only read from eeprom at startup and write the value every few sentences.
[11:55] <Spoz> hmm those are good ideas
[11:55] <Spoz> the watchdog is unlikely to reset in between incrementing the ID and writing to eeprom
[11:56] <eroomde> have not read the backlog so forgive me if this has already been stated but note that with eeprom, it's only rated for about 10k write cycles
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[11:56] <Spoz> yeah Im not likely to use more than that in a flight
[11:56] <eroomde> so for example if you log the 1Hz GPS strings, that's about 3 hours
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[11:56] <eroomde> unless you implement your own wear leveling or whatever
[11:56] <Spoz> yeah
[11:57] <Spoz> I like the "assume it wont reset" option
[11:57] <eroomde> i don't
[11:57] <eroomde> that sucks
[11:57] <eroomde> have a look at fram
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[11:57] <eroomde> persistenc magnetic ram
[11:58] <eroomde> persistent*
[11:58] <eroomde> i'm using it on a flight computer atm to ensure hot restart capbility
[11:58] <Spoz> my launch is in 9 days
[11:59] <eroomde> farnell will get it to you tomorrow if you order it today. it's just SPI addressable memory
[11:59] <eroomde> if you wanted
[12:00] <eroomde> of course proving the robustness of the software is time consuming
[12:00] <Spoz> yeah not really something I want to do at this stage, the flight computer is built
[12:00] <Spoz> are you sure eeprom isnt 100k cycles
[12:00] <eroomde> what chip are you using?
[12:01] <Spoz> atmega328
[12:01] <eroomde> beg your pardon, 100 yep
[12:01] <fsphil> I meant to get some SPI SRAM
[12:01] <eroomde> so 30 hours at 1hz
[12:01] <mfa298> the atmega324 lists 10k for flash, 100k for eeprom
[12:01] <Spoz> heaps!
[12:01] <fsphil> for storing image data
[12:01] <Spoz> yeah
[12:01] <eroomde> not really heaps
[12:01] <eroomde> i'd want to replace it every flight
[12:01] <Spoz> it is considering how much addressable space I have
[12:01] <eroomde> or every other flight
[12:02] <Spoz> I could use a brand new address for the flight
[12:02] <Spoz> and still do heaps of testing
[12:02] <eroomde> sure, that's basically wear levelling
[12:02] <Spoz> yeah
[12:02] <eroomde> that would work
[12:03] <Spoz> only problem is I dont really want to introduce new code unless necessary
[12:03] <Spoz> the eeprom library in this case
[12:03] <Spoz> my experience with the arduino libraries is theyre not very well written
[12:03] <eroomde> indeed, it's risky and you'd definitely want to test it thoroughly
[12:04] <eroomde> you also introduce a human-in-the-loop dependency to change the sotrage address every flight
[12:04] <fsphil> interesting that smaller memory devices are measured in kilobits rather than bytes
[12:04] <eroomde> and finally, you would want to make sure it's robust to epprom failure
[12:04] <Spoz> yeah
[12:04] <eroomde> i.e. the epprom failing won't lock up the whole tracker
[12:04] <fsphil> yea, use a crc
[12:04] <Spoz> which I cant do
[12:04] <eroomde> sure you can
[12:04] <eroomde> like fsphil says
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[12:05] <eroomde> or just during flight keep the counter also in ram and check it's one bigger than last time
[12:05] <Spoz> hah, thats how you do it
[12:05] <eroomde> and if it isn't, declare the eeprom dead and fail over to just having to accept the counter going wrong if you reset
[12:05] <Spoz> I was wondering how to do it that way
[12:05] <Spoz> no I dont even need the eeprom
[12:06] <Spoz> increment a counter and store it in ram
[12:06] <fsphil> habitat doesn't actually need the counter, just spacenear
[12:06] <eroomde> sure but that won't survive a reset
[12:06] <Spoz> yes it will
[12:06] <Spoz> not a power cycle, but a reset
[12:06] <Spoz> I guess I store it in two separate addresses
[12:07] <Spoz> and if theyre the same then I can say it was reset and to carry on from that value
[12:07] <Spoz> if they are different assume its been power cycled and to start from 1
[12:07] <eroomde> sure, though i'd have thought things like brownout resets are the more ikely thing to happen
[12:07] <eroomde> oh no, i guess watchdog actually
[12:07] <eroomde> and that keeps sram hot
[12:07] <Spoz> yeah
[12:08] <Spoz> Im going to pretend brownouts are an impossibility, dont tell me otherwise :p
[12:08] <eroomde> :)
[12:08] <fsphil> um
[12:08] <Spoz> I dont have time to deal with them too
[12:08] <eroomde> this is why i'm building i ferror ram
[12:08] <Spoz> hmm
[12:08] <eroomde> trillions of write cycles and non volatile
[12:08] <eroomde> terro*
[12:08] <eroomde> ferro*
[12:08] <eroomde> finally
[12:09] <costyn> is a reset that likely to happen though?
[12:09] <Spoz> Im not sure brownouts are likely to happen, I have a 5v reg with a large capacitor on the output, if there's a brownout then the voltage reg has failed and the flights screwed anyway
[12:09] <eroomde> can happen with watchdogs
[12:09] <eroomde> especially with unforseen things like interrupt collisions
[12:09] <costyn> ok
[12:10] <Spoz> two regs would have been a good idea in retrospect
[12:10] <Darkside> i've had brownout failure before, when working with a FET
[12:10] <Spoz> what happened?
[12:10] <Spoz> I have a couple of FETs on my board
[12:10] <eroomde> i guess a basic balloon tracker is among the simpler things so less likely to happen, but things like poorly implement ring bufers
[12:10] <Darkside> this was a FET that drives a nichrome eire
[12:11] <eroomde> ... can cause unforseen behaviour
[12:11] <Darkside> the voltage across the nichrome + FET was higher than the VCC of the micro driving the fet
[12:11] <eroomde> non terminating string copies and so on
[12:11] <Spoz> oh right
[12:11] <eroomde> which a watchdog should catcth
[12:11] <eroomde> i give up with typing
[12:11] <Darkside> and what i was noticing was the VCC of the micro would raise up when i turned th FET on
[12:11] <Darkside> the micro would continue to run, until i go to turn th FET off, when the VCC spikes downwards, triggering the brownout detection
[12:11] <Darkside> and the chip would hang
[12:12] <Spoz> ah I see
[12:12] <costyn> Darkside: interesting
[12:12] <Spoz> Im using an FET to switch my video transmitter, but its switching the full 12v not the 5, so the voltage drop at the micro from the extra load is not that much
[12:12] <Darkside> fixed the symptom with a watchdog timer, ended up fixing the problem by running th system off a boost converter, so VCC is higher than the voltage across the nichrome and fet
[12:12] <Spoz> the voltage reg should be able to deal with it
[12:12] <Darkside> it was a bit of a weird situation
[12:12] <eroomde> Darkside: that is odd behaviour
[12:12] <Spoz> yeah
[12:12] <Darkside> i think it was cause dby current flowing back through the gate
[12:12] <Darkside> but i'm still not sure
[12:13] <Darkside> i had the appropriate series resistor between the atmega ant the gate
[12:13] <zyp> just remember that watchdogs are just safeguards, not solutions
[12:13] <Darkside> 100 ohms between atmega and gate, and 3.3k from gate to ground
[12:13] <Spoz> sometimes they are solutions!
[12:13] <fsphil> nope
[12:13] <Darkside> zyp: yep, that was why i switched to the lower supply voltage
[12:13] <fsphil> they're a plaster on a wound :)
[12:13] <Spoz> depends on the application
[12:14] <Darkside> still, even switching to a lower supply didn't completely diagnose the fault
[12:14] <zyp> Spoz, so for what application would a watchdog be the solution?
[12:14] <eroomde> Darkside: was this for a hot wire?
[12:14] <Darkside> it stopped it from happening, and there are now no more VCC rail fluctuations
[12:14] <Darkside> eroomde: yep
[12:14] <Darkside> eroomde: no the wire wasn't in a coil
[12:14] <eroomde> i wasn't going to suggest that as that wouldn't explain the behaviour anyway
[12:14] <Darkside> heh
[12:15] <Spoz> say if you had some code where you needed to reset the mcu each time it loops
[12:15] <Darkside> anyway, i captured it on a scope, you could see the VCC voltage spike down to about 2v before going back up to 3.3
[12:15] <Darkside> it was very very off
[12:15] <Darkside> odd*
[12:15] <zyp> Spoz, then do a reset-request?
[12:15] <Spoz> for something simple and ultra-reliable
[12:15] <Spoz> reset request?
[12:16] <zyp> yes, any modern mcu should have something of that sort
[12:16] <zyp> cortex-m got a bit in a register call SYSRESETREQ
[12:16] <zyp> just set that and the chip resets
[12:16] <Spoz> do the atmegas have it? I havent heard of it
[12:16] <Spoz> as far as I know watchdog is the only way
[12:16] <zyp> dunno, avr is hardly modern
[12:16] <zyp> :p
[12:16] <fsphil> avr-libc's docs say to use the WDT to reset it
[12:17] <Spoz> fair enough
[12:17] <Spoz> anyway thats a huge deviation from what we were talking about
[12:17] <Spoz> my point was there are other applications for the watchdog than watching dodgy code
[12:18] <eroomde> interestingly the apollo lunar module guidance computer had to have hot restarts built in for this reason
[12:18] <eroomde> so it could get straight back into a terminal descent profile if it reset part way through
[12:18] <eroomde> they had to use this
[12:19] <Spoz> that would have been an embarassingly literal software crash
[12:19] <eroomde> indeed
[12:19] <eroomde> they had that problem with a priority inversion on the various tasks the processor had to do
[12:20] <eroomde> which stopped it ever running some code it needed to run
[12:21] <Spoz> nice to know that even nasa isn't exempt from rushing it to meet a deadline
[12:21] <Hibby> potentially my favourite feature in an IRC channel I moderate - Cappy Hour. We drink, and type exclusively in caps for an hour. It's incredibly fun :)
[12:22] <Darkside> sounds awesome
[12:22] <costyn> Hibby: that does sound fun
[12:24] <zyp> sounds tiring
[12:24] <Hibby> drinking is optional. but caps are.
[12:24] <Hibby> *are mandatory
[12:25] <costyn> hehe
[12:26] <Spoz> DO YOU EVER FORGET WHAT CHANNEL YOURE IN AND YELL AT SOMEONE BY ACCIDENT?
[12:26] <Hibby> REGULARLY
[12:26] <Hibby> I mean, yeah, occasionally.
[12:26] <Darkside> Hibby: WILL BE IMPLENENTING THIS IN A FEW CHANNELS I'M IN
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[12:27] <zyp> what about just going to a loud bar if the purpose is to drink and shout?
[12:28] <Hibby> becuase it's irc.
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[12:28] <Hibby> i don't have real friends
[12:28] <Hibby> :p
[12:28] <Hibby> just sent an all caps email. oops
[12:28] <Spoz> heh
[12:29] <Spoz> are you in aus, hibby?
[12:29] <BrainDamage> related: http://i.imgur.com/WIRm7.jpg
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[12:30] <Hibby> Spoz: nope, North of Scotland here
[12:30] <Hibby> couldn't be much further away.
[12:31] <Spoz> ah scotland, that explains it :p
[12:31] <Spoz> oh it is after noon there
[12:32] <Hibby> indeedio.
[12:32] <Spoz> well cheers from aus!
[12:32] <Spoz> Im drinking and procrasti-coding
[12:32] <Hibby> awesome
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[12:33] <Spoz> I havent really told anyone here the extent of my project yet
[12:33] <Spoz> I probably should because I need to find someone to help
[12:34] <Spoz> I was approached by a local band and given a sketch of what they wanted to do
[12:34] <Spoz> I'll upload it so you can see
[12:36] <Darkside> haha
[12:36] <Darkside> a launch for a band
[12:36] <Darkside> we've done that :P
[12:36] <Darkside> did a launch for skipping girl vinegar, they used the footage in a music video
[12:37] <chris_99> linky Darkside?
[12:37] <Darkside> hold on
[12:38] <Spoz> http://balloon.theredpaintings.org/TRP_Balloon_InfoGraphic.jpg
[12:38] <Spoz> ugh I keep doing that
[12:38] <Spoz> http://balloon.theredpaintings.com/TRP_Balloon_InfoGraphic.jpg
[12:38] <Darkside> there's our project page for the launch http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=2100
[12:38] <Darkside> oh god
[12:38] <Darkside> IT'S NOT SPACE
[12:39] <Darkside> jeez
[12:39] <Spoz> :P
[12:39] <Hibby> OH LORD
[12:39] <Spoz> I dont know what you're telling me for
[12:39] <Hibby> FIX THE TERMINOLOGY
[12:39] <Spoz> WRONG CHANNEL HIBBY
[12:39] <Hibby> It's not even space, let alone outer space
[12:39] <costyn> <epic rage ensues>
[12:39] <Darkside> and the balloon in balloon thing is silly too
[12:39] <Darkside> you won't get a clear balloon big enough
[12:39] <Spoz> I know, keep in mind this is their original proposal
[12:39] <Spoz> Ive tempered their expectations somewhat
[12:39] <chris_99> you can say, "near space" can't you
[12:40] <Spoz> this is what I was handed 6 months ago when I knew nothing about balloons
[12:40] <Darkside> the live video stuff too
[12:40] <Hibby> get a telecoms network on board and you could do live streaming with some specialised 3g kit, but the global liaisons will be the nightmare
[12:40] <mattbrejza> and getting permission to launch in the centre of london
[12:40] <Spoz> we are doing live video, but only one channel of SD
[12:40] <Spoz> not two HD hannels
[12:40] <Darkside> yeah, launching in the centre of london.. not going to happen
[12:40] <Spoz> we know
[12:40] <Spoz> this is concept
[12:41] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iDpuxe0KryI
[12:41] <Spoz> look at it as a concept :P
[12:41] <Darkside> there's the skipping girl vinegar music video
[12:41] <Spoz> made by people with no experience in balloons
[12:41] <Darkside> man
[12:41] <mattbrejza> nothing more fun then tearing appart a proposal, even if it is old :P
[12:41] <Spoz> :P
[12:41] <Darkside> so much dodgyness in that SGV video
[12:41] <Spoz> well, I took on the project
[12:41] <Darkside> their 'laptop computers' are hillarious
[12:41] <costyn> reykjavik eh... will be fun for the chasers there :)
[12:41] <Spoz> and Im off to london in march
[12:41] <chris_99> nice Darkside :) what camera is that
[12:42] <Darkside> Spoz: also SGV had their music playing in their payload when we launched :P
[12:42] <Darkside> so nyer
[12:42] <Darkside> it's been done :P
[12:42] <Darkside> chris_99: eh?
[12:42] <costyn> Darkside: hehe
[12:42] <Hibby> costyn: ccp did a livestreamed launch from rekjavik and 'twas good.
[12:42] <chris_99> for the video Darkside
[12:42] <Darkside> chris_99: it was a gopro on the payload
[12:42] <chris_99> oh Go Pro :)
[12:42] <costyn> Hibby: I see
[12:42] <Spoz> I'll have to let them know :P
[12:42] <Darkside> it's *always* a gopro
[12:42] <Darkside> lol
[12:42] <Spoz> they'll be very disappointed
[12:42] <chris_99> they're expensive if you get lost though Darkside heh
[12:43] <Darkside> chris_99: that's why we don't lose them
[12:43] <chris_99> :)
[12:43] <Hibby> apart from me...
[12:43] <Darkside> we've only killed a gopro once
[12:43] <Darkside> when we splashed down 100m offshore
[12:43] <chris_99> darn
[12:43] <Darkside> we got the gopro back, but it was killed by the saltwater
[12:43] <Hibby> I lost mine kayaking... cracked my head off a rock and it split off my camera, and they things don't float by default.
[12:43] <chris_99> i wonder if you can insure them for if they get lost...
[12:43] <Hibby> **split off my helmet
[12:44] <Darkside> but yeah Spoz, we had a little speaker in th ebottom of the 'rocket' playing music on the way up
[12:44] <Darkside> you couldn't really hear it in the gopro footage thjo
[12:44] <Darkside> it was more of a gimmick than anything
[12:44] <Spoz> yeah as is this
[12:45] <Darkside> anyway, this was a bit over a year ago now
[12:45] <Darkside> jeez
[12:45] <Darkside> we've done 11 launches since then..
[12:45] <Spoz> hehe
[12:45] <Spoz> these will be my first 15
[12:45] <Spoz> if we get that far
[12:46] <Darkside> getting random fans to chase is a bit risky tbh
[12:46] <Darkside> we did something similar with a launch from mildura last year
[12:46] <Spoz> how did it go?
[12:46] <Darkside> where it was meant to be a competition - the person to the paylaod first wins a radio
[12:47] <Darkside> we ended up having to specify a huge amount of rules
[12:47] <Darkside> regarding crossing property, that kind of thing
[12:47] <Spoz> ah
[12:47] <Spoz> yeah
[12:47] <Darkside> also the tracking itself was pretty difficuly, from a technical standpoint
[12:47] <Darkside> i think we ended up with 2 other chase teams
[12:48] <Spoz> do you have a copy of them anywhere? Id be interested to see the issues you identified
[12:48] <Hibby> If you are just a vendor to the band though, surely it's their responsibility (...contractually, assuming that's the road you go down)
[12:48] <Darkside> nah, this was just stuff we told the people chasing the day before
[12:48] <Spoz> ok
[12:48] <Darkside> we did a short briefing session
[12:48] <Spoz> yeah
[12:48] <Darkside> one of the biggies was "Don't touch the payload"
[12:48] <Darkside> just report back via radio
[12:48] <Spoz> why?
[12:48] <Darkside> because it had all our tracking gear in it
[12:48] <Darkside> and cameras and stuff
[12:48] <Darkside> and we didn't want anyone to mess with it
[12:48] <Spoz> right
[12:49] <Spoz> we're not so fussed about that
[12:49] <Darkside> we ended up getting to the payloads before anyone else anyway
[12:49] <Spoz> the rules will stipulate that we need to get the cards back before the prize will be issued
[12:49] <Spoz> well, the entire payload
[12:49] <Spoz> and hopefully the prize will be more than what two gopros are worth
[12:49] <Darkside> the other issue is, launching at the same time in a number of countries means at least a few of those launches are going to end up in crap locations
[12:49] <Darkside> mountains, over powerlines, in peoples backyards
[12:49] <Darkside> etc
[12:50] <Darkside> or water landings
[12:50] <Darkside> we only launch if we know the conditions are good - launching to a particular date has never worked out well for us
[12:51] <Darkside> we might make plans to launch, but only make the decision with 48 hours notice
[12:53] <Darkside> but yeah, the getting people to go after it is asking for trouble
[12:54] <Spoz> yeah understandable
[12:54] <Spoz> these are issues Ive struggled to get the band to accept
[12:55] <Spoz> with regards to launching from undesirable locations, they dont really care as long as we get some footage and tracking info
[12:55] <Darkside> well thats what i mean
[12:55] <Spoz> japan and nz for example are going to end up in the ocean and they know that
[12:55] <Darkside> you're going to have to have experienced teams at each launch site to get thigns back
[12:55] <Spoz> we have nobody with any experience at all
[12:55] <Spoz> not even me
[12:56] <Darkside> this is going to be the problem
[12:56] <Spoz> thats why I'd really like someone to get on board in the UK
[12:56] <Darkside> there's plenty of people in the UK who have experience
[12:56] <Darkside> launching from the centre of london is extremely unlikely to happen though
[12:56] <Spoz> I'd like to find one who's willing to travel with us to do it
[12:56] <Darkside> way too much air traffic
[12:56] <Spoz> yeah we know
[12:56] <Spoz> I told them last night that cambridge was likely as close as theyd get and that was fine
[12:57] <Darkside> so all the launches are means to tbe simultaneous?
[12:57] <Spoz> at the end of the day some things are possible and somethings are not
[12:57] <Spoz> no, one about every 3 months or so
[12:57] <Darkside> heh ok thats easier
[12:57] <Spoz> yes :)\
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[12:57] <Spoz> I really wish I found you guys six months ago
[12:57] <Darkside> must be a bloody big budget to do this
[12:58] <Spoz> yeah, but distributed over 13 launches and including things like flights and accomodation means we have to build cheap balloons
[12:58] <Spoz> unfortunately
[12:58] <Darkside> mm
[12:58] <Darkside> well, the trackers are cheap enough
[12:58] <Spoz> yeah
[12:58] <Darkside> or they can be
[12:58] <Darkside> the trackers in my payloads are about AUD$60
[12:59] <Darkside> well, that's the BOM anyway
[12:59] <Spoz> Im really regretting using digital radios
[12:59] <Darkside> yep
[12:59] <Darkside> shitload easier with our system
[13:00] <Darkside> also ridiculously light
[13:00] <Spoz> yeah
[13:00] <Darkside> 30g or so for a complete tracker payload
[13:00] <Spoz> I kinda wish I could start over but Im somewhat committed to it
[13:00] <Darkside> actually less i think
[13:00] <Darkside> for this first launch anyway you are
[13:00] <Spoz> yeah
[13:00] <Darkside> for the next one you have options
[13:00] <Spoz> if it doesnt go well it will be an argument to switch
[13:00] <Spoz> yeah that is what Im thinking
[13:00] <Darkside> if it does go well you'll have an argument based on weight anyway
[13:01] <Spoz> yeah
[13:01] <Darkside> and not drawing 800mA at 5V..
[13:01] <Spoz> legally our total lift cant exceed 4kg
[13:01] <Darkside> yep
[13:01] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/aprs_payloads.jpg
[13:01] <Spoz> so cutting out the batteries would be great
[13:01] <Darkside> those aren't quite the ones i'm talking about
[13:01] <Darkside> but those are our APRS payloads
[13:01] <Darkside> that's a 2xAA holder on the back
[13:02] <Spoz> open source? :P
[13:02] <Darkside> nope
[13:02] <Darkside> :P
[13:02] <Spoz> hehe
[13:02] <Darkside> they're too light
[13:02] <Spoz> too light?
[13:02] <Darkside> makes it too easy for people to launch without a NOTAM
[13:02] <Darkside> in australia if your payloads is <50g you can launch without a NOTAM
[13:02] <Spoz> oh right
[13:02] <Darkside> which isn;t something we want to encourage
[13:02] <Spoz> fair enough
[13:02] <Darkside> those APRS payloads are just under that weight limit
[13:03] <Spoz> I cant develop something like that on my own unfortunately
[13:03] <Darkside> the newer telemetry payloads are even moreso
[13:03] <Spoz> so instead I am releasing a 1500g balloon with only a notam :P
[13:03] <Darkside> do the launch from adelaide instad :P
[13:04] <Darkside> we just tack on one small payload >_>
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[13:04] <Spoz> hehe, I wish
[13:04] <Darkside> it;s only a 3 hour flight away :P
[13:04] <Spoz> got time to come to brisbane? :p
[13:05] <Spoz> there could be a round the world trip in it for you :P
[13:05] <Darkside> haha
[13:05] <Darkside> intriguing :P
[13:05] <Darkside> kind of in the middle of a PhD at the moment..
[13:05] <Darkside> that and i have no money
[13:06] <Spoz> who said you needed money
[13:06] <Darkside> well if i was coming to brisbane i would...
[13:06] <Darkside> anyway, i;m busy for the next few weekends
[13:06] <Darkside> so you'll have to do this launch on your own i'm afraid :P
[13:06] <Spoz> Im afraid too
[13:06] <Darkside> ring up casa and tell them you want to switch the NOTAM to a different launch site :P
[13:07] <Darkside> then fly down here :P
[13:07] <Spoz> erm, how early do you have to file a notam
[13:07] <Spoz> pilot friend of mine indicated it was only days prior
[13:07] <Darkside> if you have a launch site already approved, then 48 hours
[13:07] <Darkside> though they prefer 72
[13:07] <Spoz> I see.
[13:08] <Spoz> and how long does it take to get a launch site approved...
[13:08] <Darkside> not sure
[13:08] <Darkside> terry handled that
[13:08] <Spoz> well I know what Im doing tomorrow
[13:08] <Darkside> it was more prodding CASA to get things moving
[13:08] <Spoz> oh hang on, I think you may have gone through a different process
[13:08] <Darkside> but yeah, we have 3 approved launch sites
[13:08] <Spoz> do you know if your balloons were classified as light balloons?
[13:08] <Darkside> they were >_>
[13:09] <Darkside> yes that part is dodgy
[13:09] <Spoz> yeah
[13:09] <Spoz> ours too
[13:09] <Darkside> CASA said it was fine
[13:09] <Spoz> I know
[13:09] <Spoz> luckily I managed to avoid the $1000 fee to tell me that
[13:09] <Darkside> there is no balloon category for what we do
[13:09] <Spoz> I was under the impression you didnt need to approve a site for light balloons
[13:09] <Darkside> the medium category is ridiculous
[13:09] <Spoz> I know
[13:09] <Darkside> anyway, i'm not sure what our deal is exactly
[13:09] <Spoz> ok so you guys have done the same thing we are doing
[13:09] <Spoz> I thought ours was dodgy
[13:09] <Spoz> so I didnt want to say too much
[13:10] <Darkside> but we have adelaide, mildura, and a small place called "Whyte Yarcowie" booked
[13:10] <Darkside> approved*
[13:10] <Darkside> and with a few weekends notice, we can usually round up enough people to chase
[13:10] <Spoz> Im going to make some calls tomorrow, I thought it was simply a case of notifying atc that we are launching
[13:10] <Spoz> I didnt realise they had to pre-approve the site
[13:10] <Darkside> haha
[13:10] <Darkside> terry called ATC our first launch
[13:10] <Darkside> they didn't give a shit
[13:11] <Spoz> well, the conditions for a light balloon kind of imply that
[13:11] <Spoz> did they know that the site had been approved?
[13:11] <Darkside> dunno
[13:11] <Darkside> we're a fair way away from the airport
[13:11] <Spoz> Im sick of dealing with the casa rep Ive been dealing with
[13:11] <Darkside> though there is a flight path above our launch site
[13:11] <Spoz> Id rather just call atc and do it
[13:11] <Darkside> the planes are at about 4km when they fly over us
[13:11] <Spoz> and try to be sensible about it
[13:12] <Spoz> yeah
[13:12] <Darkside> but yeah, the tracking stuff..
[13:12] <Darkside> with a bit more notice i'm sure we could have sorted something out
[13:12] <Darkside> it really isn't that much work to get it going
[13:12] <Darkside> hell, the simplest one would be to tack on some kind of APRS Tracker
[13:13] <Spoz> I would love to do that if you are able to assist with it, we could even pay for it
[13:13] <Darkside> if you already have an advanced operator on board for the ATV, you can use their callsing for that too
[13:13] <Darkside> well you can buy APRS trackers off the shelf
[13:13] <Darkside> they just aren't cheap
[13:13] <Spoz> yeah
[13:13] <costyn> Darkside: and they're lumpy and heavy
[13:13] <Darkside> yep
[13:14] <costyn> UpuWork: here's where you come in and say you've got a lightweight one almost ready to go
[13:14] <Darkside> heh
[13:14] <Darkside> ours is pretty light, but we don't have many of them
[13:15] <Darkside> we only built the two when we started
[13:16] <UpuWork> I have actually
[13:16] <UpuWork> just soldering it now
[13:16] <UpuWork> pics to folloew
[13:16] <UpuWork> follow
[13:16] <costyn> Spoz: but seriously, if you're looking for someone to help you with all the launches and you have the money, send a message to the UKHAS mailing list. there might be someone with spare time
[13:16] <Darkside> lol
[13:16] <costyn> haha
[13:17] <Spoz> we dont have a lot, we can budget for flights for someone to come along
[13:17] <Spoz> but they cant afford to pay for services
[13:17] <Spoz> except in free travel
[13:18] <Darkside> there's always costs associated with travel though, accomodation, etc
[13:18] <fsphil> tell me about it
[13:18] <costyn> right, well give it a go; surely quite a few people here would see that as a fun trip, launching balloons around the world
[13:18] <Spoz> I think I will have to
[13:19] <Spoz> Im realising I really need some help
[13:19] <Darkside> i really would love to do it
[13:19] <Darkside> but i'm trying to get this PhD finished :P
[13:20] <costyn> Darkside: well all the more incentive to get it done quickly :P
[13:20] <Darkside> haha
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[13:24] <mfa298> Only glanced at the scrollback but this band thing reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 Launch last year.
[13:25] <mfa298> I think from a lot of the fans point of view it was a bit of a failure - copies stuck in a tree, assuming what worked in the US worked for the rest of the world etc.
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[13:42] <nosebleedkt> hi everybody
[13:42] <costyn> nosebleedkt: howdy
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> does anyone a commercial module which takes input from many solar panel
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> panel
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> panels
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> charges your lipo
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> and in the same time provides same stable output
[13:43] <nosebleedkt> some*
[13:53] <costyn> there are some on sparkfun
[13:54] <costyn> nosebleedkt: the seeedstudio stalker board also does this I believe
[13:54] <nosebleedkt> costyn, seeed does have the lipo rider pro
[13:54] <nosebleedkt> but only takes 1 input solar panel
[13:54] <nosebleedkt> I need many :D
[13:55] <costyn> oooh ok
[13:55] <costyn> I have no idea
[13:57] <nosebleedkt> or it could be the other way
[13:57] <nosebleedkt> wire the panels together
[13:57] <nosebleedkt> but i dont know if that will cause a nuclear effect
[13:57] <nosebleedkt> :P
[13:57] <costyn> heh
[13:57] <costyn> well wiring them in parallel should work right?
[13:58] <nosebleedkt> i forgot that stuff
[13:58] <nosebleedkt> :P
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[14:02] <mfa298> as long as the panels have a protection diode and have the same voltage output i can't see there being an issue with them in parallel.
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[14:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Roberto Zinelli "Re: [UKHAS] DL-FLDIGI question"
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[15:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[15:03] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: hi... all ready for tommorow?
[15:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> just tested my tracker, and seems to be ok
[15:03] <nosebleedkt> what happens tomorrow?
[15:04] <x-f> friday!
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> hahahahaha
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> x-f :D
[15:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> we launch in Denmark
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> oooo
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> do you have a facebook site ?
[15:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its a 1th :-)
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> ooooooo
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> the 1st one is always the loveliest
[15:04] <nosebleedkt> :P
[15:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe
[15:05] <UpuWork> good luck OZ1SKY_Brian
[15:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork thank you Anthony, hope Trevor is doing allright with all the launch info
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[15:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> building up the tracking car, backup for as much as possible :-)
[15:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and a 5elem beam if we cant see it or gets dark
[15:08] <x-f> don't forget to take some food, too
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[15:09] <UpuWork> and a drink
[15:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe yes
[15:09] <UpuWork> just put a bottle of water in the car
[15:09] <UpuWork> and remember to drink it
[15:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes im good at forgetting that at work also
[15:10] <UpuWork> it goes all mental on first launch and you end up getting to 4pm with a headache as you've not had a drink all day
[15:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i tryed that more than once at work, so i know what you mean
[15:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> will dl-fldigi work ok with GPS possition, as mobile tracker?
[15:13] <UpuWork> Its meant too but personally I've never had it working
[15:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[15:14] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: yea it will work ok, do you have a bluetooth gps module?
[15:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got a usb
[15:14] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: should be ok then
[15:14] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: mine does bluetooth/usb, but I've only ever got it working with bluetooth funny enough
[15:15] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: don't know what OS you are running dl-fldigi on, but if you have a (virtual) COM port where your NMEA strings are coming in, you can tell dl-fldigi to read the strings from that port
[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im running win7 and winxp on the backup laptop
[15:16] <costyn> never tried it under windows (only Mac) but should just work
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[15:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ill give it a try
[15:17] <costyn> I was pleasanlty surprised how easy it was
[15:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LOL bluescreen
[15:19] <costyn> heh
[15:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> only in windows
[15:20] <costyn> dodgy usb driver
[15:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cant find one for win7
[15:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the icon, will it be a mobing antenne?
[15:21] <mfa298> I've had isues with the GPS reading on windows but it's worked when I've tested on linux. - Not tried it on the latest build yet.
[15:21] <costyn> yes
[15:21] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: no, a car :)
[15:21] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: so change your operator callsign to OZ1SKY_Chase or similar :)
[15:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> RR
[15:23] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: what USB GPS do you have?
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[15:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> GM-307 USB, havent used it for ages
[15:25] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: if you have a spare ublox with 3.3v ftdi you could use that too
[15:25] <costyn> :)
[15:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh yes
[15:26] <UpuWork> New Saratel antenna SL1252R http://imgur.com/a/t1zR8
[15:27] <costyn> UpuWork: noice
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[15:32] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: did you get it working?
[15:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> close to i think
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[15:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gps working in the testutil but not in dl-fldigi
[15:42] <mfa298> OZ1SKY_Brian: that sounds similar to what I've had with a USB gps reciever on Windows 7 in dl-fldigi
[15:42] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: I see a skals1_chase
[15:43] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: on the tracker
[15:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats Trevor
[15:43] <costyn> ah
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[15:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> WARNING! GPS error createfile () failed
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[15:58] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: those errors are great, don't say much and Google hasn't heard of them either
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[16:00] <mfa298> I think I've seen something similar in the past, but I think I've broken windows driver stack by testing again now.
[16:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its a dl-fldigi error
[16:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> works great on the gps test software
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[16:06] <costyn> OZ1SKY_Brian: that's too bad
[16:07] <nigelvh> Morning all.
[16:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tryed it in winxp, same error
[16:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh well, chace app and dl-fldigi should work also
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[16:20] <mfa298> just restarted windows (inc a nice BSOD), looks like the error I get from the GPS is "warning: hbtGPS setvbuf() failed"
[16:22] <mfa298> firing up putty looking at the right com port with 4800 baud I see GPS data.
[16:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "Re: [UKHAS] Hyowee 800g floater?"
[16:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> mfa298 same here, just with another program
[16:26] <UpuWork> what sized He bottle is he getting OZ1SKY_Brian as that is ALOT of money
[16:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork i realy dont know, ive only been part of the tracker
[16:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got involved so late, that the only thing i was to take care off, was the tracker
[16:28] <UpuWork> ok no problems
[16:28] <UpuWork> I'll sort the tracker out tonght
[16:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what do you mean?
[16:29] <UpuWork> put your flight on it
[16:29] <UpuWork> set up live prediction etc
[16:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh yes ok
[16:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[16:29] <UpuWork> set the title to BRIAN IS ACEFACES
[16:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sorry acefaces?`
[16:31] <mfa298> just looked at the source for dl-fldgi, it looks like the setup code for gps on windows is different to that used on other platforms.
[16:32] <UpuWork> I'm being silly
[16:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sri gotta run, bbl, better get haircut, national television will be there tomorrow LOL
[16:33] <UpuWork> lol
[16:33] <UpuWork> never done that have we daveake
[16:33] <daveake> lol
[16:33] <daveake> nope never at all
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[16:49] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: newbie"
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[16:58] <cuddykid> UpuWork: does that new sarantel have the same footprint as the old one? / will it work with my pcb?
[16:59] <UpuWork> no
[16:59] <UpuWork> new foot print
[16:59] <UpuWork> but don't worry I still have and can get old one
[16:59] <UpuWork> afk off home
[16:59] <cuddykid> ah no worries, the old one is still good :D
[17:00] <UpuWork> for a bit
[17:00] <UpuWork> any new designs should have new antenna on
[17:00] <UpuWork> btw I got a delivery of PCB's today
[17:00] <UpuWork> yours weren't in there
[17:00] <UpuWork> not sure when they are turning up did he give you a dispatch date ?
[17:01] <cuddykid> ah, probably stuck in customs or what not
[17:01] <UpuWork> will continue conversation from home back soon
[17:01] <cuddykid> rum, yeah, they were dispatched ages ago
[17:02] <cuddykid> Upu: shipped 29th Dec - according to HK post left hong kong on the 6th - so I guess they'll be here relatively soon
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[17:04] <arko> Morning
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[17:28] <Upu> Ah ok cuddykid
[17:28] <Upu> Yeah the ones I got today were posted 24th
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[18:35] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:35] <nigelvh> Morning
[18:35] <Upu> evening
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[18:36] Nick change: [1]Boggle -> Boggle
[18:38] <eroomde> happy test firing
[18:38] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/bOxBk.jpg
[18:38] <eroomde> carbon monoxide and oxygen
[18:39] <russss> pretty
[18:46] <Randomskk> :D
[18:46] <Randomskk> this time without pressure sensor destruction?
[18:46] <eroomde> yes
[18:47] <eroomde> got it dialed in now
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[18:47] <Randomskk> just turned on the fuel even sooner?
[18:47] <bertrik> looks and sounds dangerous
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[18:48] <eroomde> no, switched to o2 lead
[18:48] <eroomde> bertrik: not really
[18:48] <eroomde> we're behind a very solid wall with very chick windows
[18:48] <Randomskk> I thought it was already hitting the o2 too quickly, so running through fuel rich to oxygen rich as it started?
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[18:48] <Randomskk> or now you just run oxygen rich the whole time?
[18:49] <Randomskk> I guess it stops the hard start?
[18:49] <eroomde> yep running oxygen rich
[18:49] <eroomde> which stops the stoichiometric blip
[18:53] <Randomskk> yea fair enough
[18:54] <eroomde> o2 rich is less ideal in theory and practice but fine enough for this test engine
[18:55] <eroomde> less ideal than fuel rich
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[18:56] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "Re: [UKHAS] DL-FLDIGI question"
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[19:14] <arko> eroomde: nice test!!
[19:17] <lz1dev> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2013-January/123499.html
[19:17] <lz1dev> why would somebody delete the wiki
[19:18] <mfa298> presumably they were trying to hide their tracks.
[19:19] <mfa298> from what I've seen of attacks often the people doing them are fairly clueless.
[19:19] <lz1dev> usually unprviligied users dont have access to logs
[19:19] <lz1dev> maybe attacks that got in the news
[19:20] <lz1dev> a good attack, wont be noticed
[19:20] <lz1dev> there are few good stories, about discovering a breach years later
[19:20] <mfa298> most of the ones I've seen are ones I've investigated - but most of those are based on scripted attacks
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[19:21] <lz1dev> there was a time, when bots were doing mass exploting
[19:21] <lz1dev> then honey pots came along
[19:21] <mfa298> once they've got console access there isn't always much track of what they've done in logs - unless process accounting had been turned on.
[19:22] <mfa298> there's a lot of attempted mass exploiting (at least based on all my logs)
[19:22] <nick_> Why delete the wiki? To annoy users of the wii.
[19:22] <nick_> wiki
[19:22] <lz1dev> there are quite a few solutions for logging stdin stdout
[19:22] <nick_> Users of the wii are living in the past and should be annoyed that they don't have a wii U.
[19:22] <lz1dev> not talking about bash HIST
[19:22] <mfa298> My guess is they were trying to clear out things like .bash_history so just did something like rm -rf ~
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[19:24] <lz1dev> maybe
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[19:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Hardy "[UKHAS] Balloon supplier....?"
[19:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Re: Hyowee 800g floater?"
[19:49] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Offline GPS logger as an altimeter"
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[20:00] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Offline GPS logger as an altimeter"
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[20:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> could someone please turn on the predicted path for SKYHAB, so its ready for tomorrow morning?
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[20:25] <Upu> hey OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:25] <Upu> I'll sort it shortly
[20:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Anthony
[20:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Btw i got your parcel late afternoon, sri but havent had much time to look at it yet.
[20:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thanks re predicted path
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[20:35] <WillDuckworth> eagle fun times!
[20:35] <WillDuckworth> respect upu
[20:36] <Upu> hello ?
[20:36] <Upu> did I do something ? :)
[20:36] <WillDuckworth> what is the part number for the inductor on pava?
[20:37] <WillDuckworth> it's taking me awhile to get to grips with eagle foibles
[20:37] <Upu> ELLVGG something 1 sec
[20:37] <WillDuckworth> getting there
[20:37] <Upu> eagle part or real life Farnell part ?
[20:38] <WillDuckworth> not sure - what do you suggest?
[20:39] <Upu> are you using the TPS61200 ?
[20:39] <WillDuckworth> yep yep
[20:39] <Upu> ok in that case the inductor is ELLVGG_INDUCTOR in the AVA.lbr
[20:40] <WillDuckworth> got it - thanks :)
[20:41] <WillDuckworth> just doing some reverse engineering ;)
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[20:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Balloon supplier....?"
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[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Re: Hyowee 800g floater?"
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[21:15] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "Re: [UKHAS] Offline GPS logger as an altimeter"
[21:18] <WillDuckworth> did they do sky balloon on bbc stargazing in the end? been dipping in and out an may have missed it
[21:21] <mfa298> I've not noticed it
[21:22] <daveake> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20959699
[21:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Adrian Hicks "Re: [UKHAS] Balloon supplier....?"
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[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, do you know what things the balloon carried?
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> the BBC article says pressure and wind measurements "besides other things"
[21:33] <daveake> cameras and trackers
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:35] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
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[21:45] <chrisg7ogx> is SKYHAB still LSB please?
[21:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[21:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> or usb rev
[21:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :-)
[21:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok off now, long day tomorrow. gn
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[22:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Balloon supplier....?"
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[22:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Offline GPS logger as an altimeter"
[22:27] <eroomde> that reads a bit grumpily
[22:28] <eroomde> good.
[22:31] <Upu> here here
[22:32] <mfa298> only missing the: 3) get yourself on IRC.
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> evening anthony
[22:32] <Upu> try 4/ Actually launch a balloon and get some experience
[22:32] <Upu> Evening Lunar
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> how did you like Stargazing Live of this year?
[22:33] <Upu> I sort of missed it been working on an APRS payload
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:33] <Upu> I'll catch it on Iplayer Stargazing Notso Live
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:33] <eroomde> given the light has taken thousands of years to arrive
[22:34] <eroomde> it can wait another 24hrs
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> I liked the Back To Earth Intro
[22:34] <Upu> was fsphil on it ?
[22:34] <eroomde> was the balloon featured?
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> with the flyby of the planets and at the end that beam that came from where macclesfield is
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> and wrote "Back To Earth"
[22:35] <eroomde> uk space industry on radio 4 right now
[22:35] <eroomde> talking about exomars
[22:35] <mfa298> I didn't notice anything of the fsphil's balloon
[22:35] <eroomde> 'this 6 wheeled vehicle will eventually be carried by rockets to the surface of mars"
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> dave linked to a BBC article on a balloon earlier
[22:36] <eroomde> no, it will be rescoped into non existence at a ministerial meeting
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20959699
[22:36] <eroomde> after a 10 year stay of execution
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[22:59] <eroomde> hmm, coincidently the project he linked to used his equipment hire service
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[23:14] <chrisstubbs93> Just recorded this on 433.062mhz: http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/morse/morse.mp3 Any ideas what it could be?
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[23:14] <chrisstubbs93> seems to be transmitted every 10 mins
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[23:15] <nigelvh> I don't know morse code, but if it's regular and in the ham band, I might guess a propogation beacon.
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigel
[23:16] <nigelvh> Afternoon
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> today I tried to test the thermometer
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/b/m/b/5yvkzq-kjw1i3-x0wo/IMG6486.jpeg
[23:17] <chrisstubbs93> nigelvh, nor do i, ran it through dlfldigi and got "TER H JO01GR" out of it... makes no sense to me
[23:18] <mfa298> chrisstubbs93: my guesses would be beacon or morse practice
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> isn't the last thing a locator?
[23:18] <mfa298> looks like it could be a locator square
[23:18] <nigelvh> Yeah
[23:19] <nigelvh> I wonder if you didn't get a good decode on the first part, but the last is the locator square format.
[23:19] <mfa298> JO01 covers SE england (Dover, London, Chelmsford
[23:19] <chrisstubbs93> chelmsford im in
[23:20] <chrisstubbs93> will try and record it again at 23:21, seems to be every 11th min
[23:20] <nigelvh> http://www.levinecentral.com/ham/grid_square.php
[23:20] <nigelvh> Put in the locator and it will show you where it is.
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> when it is periodic it seems to be automatic
[23:20] <mfa298> sounds like a beacon
[23:20] <nigelvh> Could also be a repeater IDing
[23:21] <mfa298> I'd expect repeater to be 15 minutes, but could be
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> XD JO01GR includes Springfield
[23:21] <chrisstubbs93> yep, happened again just now
[23:21] <Randomskk> if you get the start with a repeat you should know for sure
[23:21] <Randomskk> with a callsign*
[23:21] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs93: did you catch the callsign?
[23:21] <nigelvh> I see a GB3ER repeater on 433.075 FM in that grid square
[23:22] <mfa298> not finding any 70cms beacons in that area.
[23:22] <chrisstubbs93> i recorded it in audacity, its hard to catch the first bit, got sdr# set up ready for 23:31 :P
[23:22] <chrisstubbs93> there is a 70cms repeater i think pretty local
[23:22] <mfa298> what mode was the rx in (FM, ssb etc)
[23:23] <nigelvh> if you were sitting in SSB then you saying you heard it on 433.062 makes sense for a 433.075 FM
[23:23] <nigelvh> Which corresponds to that repeater I found.
[23:24] <chrisstubbs93> SDR# was in USB mode
[23:24] <chrisstubbs93> shall i try with NFM next time?
[23:25] <mfa298> might be worth it, that's in the repeater outputs section of 70cms
[23:25] <nigelvh> I'd leave it where it was so you can get a complete recording without wondering if it's going to pick it up
[23:25] <chrisstubbs93> the frequency drifts too much for dlfldigi to get the first bit :(
[23:26] <chrisstubbs93> i think ill give it a shot in NFM
[23:26] <nigelvh> FM is better about that.
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[23:26] <nigelvh> Set at .075
[23:26] <mfa298> I'm wondering how much you'de hear of FM when it's recieving ssb, although tones might work.
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[23:26] <nigelvh> You'd hear it pretty well with tones I think.
[23:27] <chrisstubbs93> 433.075?
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[23:29] <mfa298> GB3ER might make sense, the T could be the end of 3 in morse, and it's the right locator
[23:29] <mfa298> and I bet H is the code for 110.9Hz cctss
[23:30] <chrisstubbs93> yeah that repeater is monted on a phone mast just down the road
[23:30] <chrisstubbs93> http://web.archive.org/web/20120516004934/http://www.essexrepeatergroup.org.uk/gb3er.htm
[23:32] <mfa298> also try http://www.ukrepeater.net/my_repeater.php?id=92
[23:32] <chrisstubbs93> Nope missed the start again, had to retune it back to 433.067 and just caught the end :(
[23:33] <mfa298> is that still on ssb ?
[23:33] <nigelvh> Anyway, I have to head out, I'll chat with y'all later.
[23:33] <chrisstubbs93> got the end of it on NFM
[23:33] <chrisstubbs93> Ok Nigel. Cheers for the help, interesting stuff!
[23:34] <mfa298> try listening around rush hours if you can using NFM on .075 and you might hear some people.
[23:37] <chrisstubbs93> What time would be morse coder's rush hour? haha
[23:37] <mfa298> the morse is just the repeaters ident to say it's there
[23:37] <chrisstubbs93> Ah ok im with you, yeah voice repeater
[23:38] <chrisstubbs93> I will tuen in when im home from work tommorow and see if i catch anything
[23:38] <mfa298> often repeaters get used around rush hour or evenings
[23:38] <mfa298> although it can vary with the area
[23:52] <chrisstubbs93> callsign GB3ER got it at last
[23:52] <chrisstubbs93> Im off now, night
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 11 2013