highaltitude.log.20130108

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[00:34] <meatmanek> there's a ~30mW 144.39 radio that everyone likes to use for APRS, but I can't remember the name
[00:34] <fsphil> HX1
[00:34] <fsphil> 300mw
[00:34] <meatmanek> that's the one
[00:34] <meatmanek> sorry yeah 300mW
[00:35] <fsphil> yea I don't think 30mw would work too well for aprs
[00:35] <meatmanek> narrow-band?
[00:36] <fsphil> FM just doesn't work well at low powers
[00:37] <meatmanek> anybody know a place I can get a HX1 quickly in the US?
[00:42] <fsphil> that I don't know. there's a few US'ians on here that might
[00:42] <fsphil> if you don't mind a short wait you can get them from the uk
[00:43] <fsphil> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=78
[00:44] <meatmanek> apparently my group wants to do a launch on thursday...
[00:44] <fsphil> aah
[00:44] <meatmanek> I'd rather not send my handheld up this time
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[00:44] <arko> get a beofeng :P
[00:47] <fsphil> anyways, g'nite all :)
[00:48] <arko> nite
[00:48] <meatmanek> cheap HTs are cool and all but it also just seems easier to interface with the hx1 since it's SIP-packaged
[00:49] <meatmanek> also weight
[00:49] <arko> yeah
[00:50] <arko> http://www.lemosint.com/radiometrix/radiometrix_details.php?itemID=209
[00:50] <KT5TK_QRL> meatmanek: http://www.lemosint.com/product_Details.php?itemID=748
[00:50] <arko> theres that too
[00:51] <arko> you're US right?
[00:51] <meatmanek> yeah california
[00:51] <KT5TK_QRL> Get the -10
[00:51] <meatmanek> do I want the -10 or -3
[00:51] <meatmanek> -10?
[00:51] <KT5TK_QRL> the -3 is not so good
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[00:51] <arko> oh cool
[00:51] <arko> me too
[00:51] <KT5TK_QRL> for APRS out of the linear range
[00:54] <Darkside> the -3 works if you drive it with a 3.3v PWM signal
[00:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Sure it works, just when he buys one, he can get the -10 right away
[00:59] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[01:02] <KT5TK_QRL> https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/?p=123
[01:09] <arko> omg
[01:09] <arko> wat
[01:09] <arko> Eric Idle is gonna be jpl wednesday
[01:11] <meatmanek> anybody have any success at all with sending e.g. cutdown commands to the balloon with APRS?
[01:11] <Darkside> we haven't bothered
[01:11] <Darkside> we use a different uplink ssytem
[01:12] <Darkside> making use of the receive capability of the module we use to transmit RTTY with
[01:12] <meatmanek> "we" being the UKHAS folks?
[01:12] <Darkside> we being project horus
[01:12] <Darkside> australia
[01:12] <meatmanek> ah
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[01:13] <Darkside> though navrac was the one that started it
[01:13] <Darkside> it uses 500 baud GFSK uplink packets
[01:13] <Darkside> they fit within a 3KHz passband, so you can transmit pre-recorded packets through a SSB transmitter
[01:13] <Darkside> which is very convenient
[01:13] <meatmanek> hm.
[01:14] <Darkside> APRS receive on the balloon would be nice, but it needs a lot more computational power
[01:14] <meatmanek> that would be convenient. Given the time constrants, I'm probably going to end up sticking with NFM
[01:14] <Darkside> and unless you run on a separate frequency, it's going to get flooded with traffic
[01:16] <meatmanek> we've already got an OTUSB module which will do the APRS demodulation for us so computational power isn't a big deal
[01:18] <KT5TK_QRL> What rx are you planning to use for this?
[01:19] <Darkside> meatmanek: ooh yeah the OTUSB's are good
[01:19] <Darkside> i have one of those in my car
[01:19] <Darkside> stick the GPS on port B, and just listen on port A
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[01:19] <Darkside> if only the OUTPUT function worked on them :-)
[01:20] <Darkside> as you could do the entire thing with the OTUSB's scrupting engine
[01:23] <KT5TK_QRL> Scott, N1VG has just released a 9600bd receive experimental build for the Tracker3. I wonder if that worked with the OTUSB as well?
[01:24] <Darkside> that'd require a discriminator tap though
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[01:24] <KT5TK_QRL> Yea, I used a FT-817
[01:24] <KT5TK_QRL> but it may work with the RFM22 modules or similar
[01:24] <Darkside> not with the RFM22s
[01:24] <meatmanek> Darkside: OUTPUT?
[01:25] <Darkside> maybe with the NRX's
[01:25] <meatmanek> it's been a while since I looked at the opentracker's commands, which is OUTPUT again?
[01:25] <Darkside> it doesn't work (isn't implemented)
[01:25] <Darkside> but it's meant to set a IO line
[01:25] <meatmanek> ah
[01:25] <Darkside> which you could use to trigger a cutdown
[01:25] <meatmanek> I do also have an OT3m as well, I think that one does have it
[01:26] <meatmanek> or we could stick an arduino on the other port and listen for commands
[01:26] <KT5TK_QRL> That might be the best option
[01:26] <Darkside> just remember the OTUSB has inverted data inputs
[01:26] <Darkside> but non-inverted data outputs
[01:26] <meatmanek> interesting
[01:26] <Darkside> its so it can read from RS232 gpses
[01:27] <Darkside> i ended up desoldering the 2N7002 FETs and bypassing them
[01:27] <Darkside> so i could use a 3.3v TTL gps
[01:27] <meatmanek> cool
[01:27] <meatmanek> very cool actually
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[01:27] <Darkside> i aso replaced the 5V LDO regulator in mine with a switchmode module
[01:27] <Darkside> as the 5v reg was getting very very warm
[01:27] <meatmanek> neat
[01:27] <KT5TK_QRL> I did the same :)
[01:27] Action: meatmanek takes notes
[01:28] <Darkside> next thing i want to do is put a bluetooth serial module on port a
[01:28] <Darkside> so i can connect to it from my laptop
[01:28] <Darkside> :-)
[01:28] <KT5TK_QRL> Text and drive?
[01:28] <Darkside> lol
[01:28] <Darkside> more being able to send messages from it, or monitor the traffic
[01:29] <Darkside> another thing that output IO would be useful for is switching channels
[01:29] <Darkside> i'd be able to switch my radio to the ISS freq
[01:29] <KT5TK_QRL> In your car?
[01:29] <Darkside> yeah
[01:29] <Darkside> at the moment i have to open the boot and press a button
[01:30] <Randomskk> don't you have a 7k?
[01:30] <Darkside> not for APRS
[01:30] <Randomskk> oh right, fe
[01:31] <Darkside> i'm using an old kenwood handheld as my APRS TRX
[01:31] <Randomskk> for the 7k you totally want the front panel extension cable and windscreen mount
[01:31] <Darkside> TH-215A
[01:31] <Darkside> Randomskk: haha
[01:31] <Darkside> i wouldn't want to mount it in my car
[01:31] <Darkside> it's worth more than my car is
[01:31] <Randomskk> haha true
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[02:25] <arko> ah
[02:28] <Lunar_Lander> so
[02:28] <Lunar_Lander> that was the final episode of the sky at night
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[04:53] <heathkid> why not do a custom cut XTAL and a *simple* TX/RX for a cutdown?
[04:53] <Darkside> because custom cut crystals cost more than the other radio modules?
[04:56] <nigelvh> Yeah... :(
[04:56] <nigelvh> Damn expensive crystals...
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[05:21] <heathkid> what's wrong with the HX1?
[05:52] <DrLuke> custom cut crystals? what?
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[07:43] <Spoz> if my launch goes well in two weeks we will be doing another one, and then one in london in march
[07:44] <Spoz> I'm thinking about putting an additional analog radio for the london launch since you guys have such a great network for it over there
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[07:46] <Darkside> heh
[07:46] <Darkside> yes
[07:46] <Darkside> it will help a lot
[07:46] <Spoz> how do I go about that, Im not sure what I should be looking at
[07:47] <Darkside> ukhas wiki has a lot of stuff on it
[07:47] <Spoz> there are a few options there
[07:47] <Spoz> 70cm?
[07:47] <Darkside> yes
[07:47] <Darkside> 434.070 or 434.650MHz are the main ones
[07:47] <Darkside> 434.075*
[07:48] <Darkside> those are the frequencies the radiometrix NTX2 modules are available in
[07:48] <Spoz> oh right, so it is the ntx2 I should be looking at
[07:49] <Darkside> thats the simplest way of doing it
[07:49] <Spoz> I guess I should completely switch over to this then, as the second harmonic might screw with my digital radios
[07:49] <Spoz> or vice versa since its 1W output
[07:49] <Darkside> i doubt it'd be a problem
[07:49] <Spoz> rather than running both simultaneously
[07:49] <Spoz> yeah?
[07:49] <Darkside> well switching to this you'll save a lot of power
[07:50] <Spoz> yeah, but we have a lot of launches planned and I really need to get the digital system working... either that or invest in a lot of 70cm gear
[07:50] <Darkside> well you don't need much to receive
[07:50] <Darkside> hell, you can use those cheap usb tv tuner dongles
[07:50] <Darkside> and they work pretty well
[07:50] <Spoz> hm right
[07:51] <Spoz> how about direction finding?
[07:51] <Darkside> you'll need a different radio for that
[07:51] <Darkside> i swear by the Icom IC-R10s for direction finding
[07:51] <Darkside> though they are hard to come by
[07:52] <Darkside> the key point iwth direction finding is you need some kind of RF gain control
[07:52] <fsphil> you might find it tricky getting launch permission for london
[07:53] <nosebleedkt> This morning I took an epic picture with my new DSLR
[07:53] <nosebleedkt> give me a link of a website that allows random uploading of pics
[07:53] <fsphil> also remember you can't use amateur radio transmitters
[07:54] <fsphil> from the balloon
[07:56] <Spoz> oh so the 434mhz stuff isnt amateur radio
[07:56] <Spoz> but can be picked up with AR receivers?
[07:57] <number10> imgur.com nosebleedkt
[07:57] <Darkside> Spoz: yes
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[08:01] <fsphil> Spoz: yea they ISM devices that happen to be in the 70cm band
[08:01] <fsphil> both ISM and amateur users are secondary there
[08:02] <Spoz> cool
[08:02] <fsphil> it's annoying because it means we're limited to 10mw
[08:03] <Spoz> it seems to be enough for you
[08:03] <fsphil> it's amazing what can be done with it. but for some things it would be nice to use more
[08:03] <fsphil> faster data rates for example
[08:04] <fsphil> or TV
[08:04] <Spoz> is video on 1.2ghx a possibility there?
[08:05] <Darkside> no
[08:05] <Darkside> no amateur operation airborne
[08:05] <Darkside> at all
[08:05] <Darkside> it'd have to be on the ISM bands
[08:05] <Darkside> with the associated power limits
[08:07] <Spoz> hmm
[08:08] <Spoz> what would happen if someone did it anyway, hypotetically
[08:10] <nosebleedkt> http://imagebin.org/242104
[08:10] <nosebleedkt> Top of Mt Olympus
[08:10] <nosebleedkt> from my balcony
[08:10] <nosebleedkt> 45km away :P
[08:10] <nosebleedkt> crazy 300mm zoom lens :P
[08:11] <Darkside> 300mm, is that all :P
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[08:12] <nosebleedkt> :P
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[08:23] <Spoz> fsphil we won't do directly in london, but as close as we can I suppose
[08:24] <fsphil> you might be able to launch from Cambridge
[08:24] <fsphil> if you have a word with the CUSF guys, could make it a lot simpler
[08:24] <Spoz> cool, will do
[08:25] <Spoz> so is there currently any way to do live video in the UK?
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[11:01] <Spoz> so Adafruit ended up issuing me a refund for the MT3339 GPS
[11:02] <Spoz> which was nice of them
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[11:16] <SpeedEvil> what was up with it?
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[11:32] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch announcement - Saturday 12th January - Chalgrove"
[11:33] <nosebleedkt> what happens to balloon if launch from high altitude?
[11:34] <nosebleedkt> eg: top of mountain
[11:34] <nosebleedkt> ~3km
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[12:16] <Spoz> Speedevil: I complained that they sold it to me as a high altitude unit when it was limited to 27km
[12:16] <Spoz> they said they havent had any other complaints
[12:17] <daveake> This is Adafruit?
[12:18] <Spoz> yeah the ultimate gps
[12:18] <daveake> They know that 27km isn't enough which is why they have the 40km one
[12:18] <Spoz> I bought it when it first came out and they advertised it as a high altitude replacement for the mt3329
[12:18] <daveake> Not that 40km is enough over here :)
[12:19] <Spoz> I only found out the other day that I had a 27km unit and not the 40
[12:19] <Spoz> anyway Im pleased they were willing to sort it out
[12:19] <daveake> good
[12:20] <Spoz> 2 weeks before launch
[12:20] <Spoz> hopefully my ublox gets here in time :p
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[12:24] <Spoz> anyway bedtime, 4am start :(
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[12:44] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re : Re: [UKHAS] Launch Today! 12:00 GMT from Suffolk"
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/55741/1301656609/facebook.jpg
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[14:58] <lz1dev> nosebleedkt: did feel the quake?
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[14:59] <nosebleedkt> lz1dev, no i just heard the news
[14:59] <nosebleedkt> it camed from Aegean ?
[15:00] Nick change: UpuWrk -> UpuWork
[15:01] <lz1dev> yeah
[15:01] <lz1dev> it was kinda shaky here, on the 22th floor
[15:01] <lz1dev> MAP 5.7 2013/01/08 14:16:09 39.659 25.567 9.9 AEGEAN SEA
[15:01] <lz1dev> MAP 4.3 2013/01/08 06:15:06 37.682 37.986 10.1 CENTRAL TURKEY
[15:01] <lz1dev> MAP 4.5 2013/01/08 06:05:09 37.810 37.952 10.0 CENTRAL TURKEY
[15:01] <lz1dev> MAP 4.3 2013/01/06 23:22:32 40.153 21.819 11.8 GREECE
[15:01] <lz1dev> MAP 4.4 2013/01/03 08:39:10 34.086 25.087 9.9 CRETE, GREECE
[15:09] <nosebleedkt> lol
[15:09] <nosebleedkt> i felt nothing
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[15:10] <lz1dev> :)
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[15:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.kk.org/streetuse/flinstonesbikes02gz1.jpg
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[16:11] <arko> Morning
[16:12] <x-f> morning
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[16:16] <eroomde> morning arko
[16:16] <arko> Ugg 8am class :(
[16:17] <arko> Meaning i have to wake up at 6am
[16:17] <eroomde> 8am class!?
[16:17] <eroomde> like
[16:17] <eroomde> that couldn't happen in the UK
[16:17] <arko> Its a crime against humanity
[16:17] <eroomde> arko: Randomskk found this u might like
[16:17] <eroomde> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/
[16:18] <arko> It shouldnt happen at any university
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[16:18] <arko> Hahaha kill -9 -1
[16:19] <eroomde> i can def sympathise with 'an error notification comes in that is related to code you worked on'
[16:20] <Randomskk> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/39118334785/carefully-examining-nagios-emails
[16:20] <Randomskk> ^ was DanielRichman and me the ATLAS night
[16:20] <Randomskk> over 3k emails from habitat
[16:20] <arko> Hahaha
[16:20] <Randomskk> because one of the backup tracker mirrors had gone down and habitat couldn't post telemetry to it
[16:21] <Randomskk> so the Network Unreachable and Timeout and Could Not Connect exceptions were all being raised right up to the "shit, email this" handler
[16:21] <eroomde> yes i had a brief phase of high insytrumenting a bit of code for the test bay with loads of logging
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[16:21] <eroomde> then tail -f which is normally tumble weed
[16:21] <eroomde> but when something went wrong the other day it went ballistic and gave me multiple line errors for every tcp packet that wasn't working
[16:22] <Randomskk> haha
[16:22] <eroomde> eventually killed the process before the log file overwrote all the memory and hdd
[16:22] <arko> Ffffffff
[16:22] <eroomde> definitely done this
[16:22] <eroomde> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/38783275366/working-on-the-wrong-server
[16:23] <arko> Dude, i hate it when that happens
[16:23] <arko> People complain changes arent there
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO8sWctHi-g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[16:23] <arko> "Damn that was a dev server"
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I find xterms with coloured backgrounds useful
[16:24] <eroomde> this is why you do dev and production on the same server
[16:24] <eroomde> duh
[16:24] <Randomskk> hehe
[16:25] <arko> Hahaha
[16:25] <arko> Best way to get fired evar
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[16:26] <arko> Talking about servers i finally got a new set of static ips
[16:26] <arko> Servers are happy now :)
[16:26] <arko> Buying some ip space was a good idea
[16:28] <eroomde> Randomskk: UV and CP filter arrived just now
[16:28] <eroomde> the cp works
[16:28] <eroomde> mba screen on! [rotate] MBA screen off!
[16:28] <eroomde> etc
[16:28] <arko> eroomde: found out eric idle is going to be at my work tomorrow
[16:29] <eroomde> microwave's reflection in the glass tabletop on! microwave's reflection in the glass tabletop off!
[16:29] <eroomde> arko: why!?
[16:29] <Randomskk> eroomde: haha yea cp filters are tons of fun
[16:29] <arko> The bbc series or something
[16:29] <eroomde> coming to sing 'always look on the bright side of life' to the mars polar lander team?
[16:29] <arko> Stargazing or something
[16:29] <fsphil> stargazing live
[16:29] <eroomde> oh yeah it's stargazing Live!!1 this week
[16:29] <arko> Hahaha
[16:29] <eroomde> it's cloudy
[16:29] <arko> Lol
[16:30] <arko> No stars
[16:30] <arko> They setup the auditorium here to show it for the next 3 days at non
[16:30] <arko> Noon
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[16:32] <arko> Ugg i hate the first day of school
[16:32] <arko> Syllabus all day :/
[16:33] <eroomde> so how do you split your time between school and JPL?
[16:33] <arko> I dont remember beinf this bored
[16:33] <arko> eroomde: jpl MWF, school TTh
[16:34] <arko> Thats why its taken me a little longer than usual to graduate
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[16:35] <eroomde> i have no idea what those acronyms been
[16:35] <eroomde> apart from jpl
[16:35] <nigelvh> Monday Wednesday Friday
[16:35] <nigelvh> Tuesday Thursday
[16:36] <arko> ^^^
[16:36] <arko> Hahaha
[16:37] <eroomde> how long is your course then?
[16:37] <arko> Classes all day
[16:38] <eroomde> in years
[16:38] <eroomde> i think there's an impedance mismatch down this comms channel
[16:38] <nigelvh> Perhaps so.
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[16:56] <nigelvh> Arko, eroomde was asking how long it was going to get your degree (finish your program).
[16:57] <arko> Ohhh!
[16:57] <arko> eroomde: 1 yearish
[16:57] <Randomskk> how long is the course going to take from start to finish?
[16:58] <arko> 5 years
[16:58] <arko> For EE
[16:58] <arko> Sorry, had no coffee
[16:58] <arko> Cant think :p
[17:00] <eroomde> phew
[17:00] <eroomde> have some coffee
[17:00] <arko> :P
[17:00] <arko> YeH seriously
[17:00] <eroomde> i have just been given another cup
[17:00] <eroomde> last for today i think to be safe
[17:00] <arko> This lecture is making me sledpy
[17:01] <arko> Sleepy
[17:01] <arko> Ermoode you practically inhale coffeee all day
[17:01] <arko> Also, course here usually means class
[17:01] <eroomde> i'm cutting down
[17:03] <eroomde> print('The time between matriculation and graduation is {0} years'.format(get_time_between_matriculation_and_graduation().toYears()))
[17:03] <arko> Hehe, yeah
[17:03] <eroomde> yay for pep8
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[17:04] <arko> 5 years
[17:04] <arko> 5 5 5 5 5 5
[17:04] <eroomde> ic
[17:05] <eroomde> which of them are you in now?
[17:05] <arko> They say 4, but thats bs
[17:05] <arko> Im year 4
[17:05] <eroomde> the happy happy fun time year
[17:06] <arko> Yeah
[17:06] <arko> Gearing up for my senior project next year
[17:06] <arko> :D
[17:06] <eroomde> what r u mkng?
[17:06] <eroomde> wt r u mkng?
[17:06] <arko> Selfdriving golf cart
[17:06] <eroomde> doin?
[17:06] <eroomde> oh cool
[17:07] <eroomde> mit der SLAMen?
[17:07] <arko> Ja
[17:07] <eroomde> der particlenfiltren?
[17:07] <arko> Und a-star
[17:07] <arko> Und lidar
[17:07] <arko> Ja
[17:07] <eroomde> der huyoko-en lidar of choisen?
[17:07] <arko> Ist das shit
[17:08] <arko> Ich bin still shopping
[17:08] <eroomde> das shit in der goodn sense er das word?
[17:08] <eroomde> or der badden sense er das word?
[17:08] <arko> Guten sense
[17:08] <eroomde> are guten
[17:08] <eroomde> yah
[17:08] <eroomde> i wanten der lidar
[17:08] <eroomde> upu promisen me der lidar fer der helping him mit der soldering
[17:08] <arko> Fsphil just died reading this
[17:09] <eroomde> ve hadden dealen
[17:09] <eroomde> but he not coughen uppen
[17:09] <arko> LOL
[17:09] <arko> En
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[17:10] <eroomde> mit de graphics carten onder golf carten?
[17:10] <arko> Vas?
[17:10] <arko> Ich kannt nicht understand
[17:11] <arko> Ich liebe schlapfen
[17:11] <eroomde> ferder accelerackten of den algoridm filterpartiklen mit der hardvareparalizen
[17:11] <arko> Ohh ja ja
[17:11] <arko> Our manshaft consisten of one computer majoren
[17:12] <eroomde> Rao-Blackwellize ALL THE THINGS
[17:12] <arko> Lol
[17:12] <eroomde> you can often reduce of the dimensionality of the particle state vector
[17:12] <eroomde> which gives you computational winning
[17:13] <arko> Ich bin gearing up to propose and get sponsership from nike und toyota (mein fingers crossed)
[17:13] <eroomde> why nike?
[17:13] <arko> Neat, i need to get cracking on more research this summer
[17:13] <arko> My friend knows people
[17:13] <arko> Possibly get money
[17:14] <arko> We will see
[17:14] <eroomde> http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~grisetti/pdf/grisetti06jras.pdf
[17:14] <eroomde> because i love you
[17:15] <eroomde> but srsly, rao blackwellization is the best low hanging fruit optimisation you can make
[17:15] <eroomde> the estimators are more accurate so you don't need as many particles
[17:15] <arko> I want a velodyne lidar :(
[17:15] <arko> Gonna write to them and twll them they willget a tax write off for donating one
[17:15] <nigelvh> I want a million dollars
[17:16] <eroomde> moroever i have some excellent papers explaing SMC, PFs and Rao Blackwellization in a more fundamental, tutorial-like way
[17:16] <eroomde> my old dept was a bit of a particle filter mafia
[17:16] <arko> Eroomde damndude
[17:16] <arko> Nice find
[17:16] <eroomde> my old lab*
[17:17] <eroomde> lots of the work on them came from there
[17:17] <eroomde> and still does
[17:17] <arko> Duuuude
[17:17] <arko> Thats epic
[17:17] <arko> Ive added this to my immediate read list
[17:18] <eroomde> infact my friend is currently writing a textbook with his supervisor on PFs
[17:18] <eroomde> he's a useful resource
[17:18] <arko> Woah nice
[17:20] <eroomde> this is a good intro paper to the whole lot
[17:20] <eroomde> ftp://ftp.idsa.prd.fr/local/aspi/legland/ref/doucet00b.pdf
[17:20] <eroomde> i recommend reading it given you've done the stanford thingamie
[17:20] <eroomde> just fills in some of the methematical gaps
[17:20] <eroomde> and gives some more context
[17:21] <eroomde> i think i have a less uglily formated raw TeX versiona ctually
[17:22] <arko> Sweet
[17:22] <arko> Thanks
[17:22] <arko> Each particle having a map madness
[17:22] <eroomde> www-sigproc.eng.cam.ac.uk/~sjg/papers/99/statcomp_final.ps
[17:23] <eroomde> yeah it's sort of the other way round to what you might first think
[17:23] <eroomde> but i think almost all slam has each particle as a map rather than your location
[17:23] <eroomde> and just doing the likelihood of the map given the sensor
[17:24] <arko> Right
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[17:25] <eroomde> not sure if you read Thrun's journal paper opn the darpa car thingamie?
[17:25] <eroomde> v good overview of everything
[17:25] <arko> Thurn <3
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[17:25] <arko> I have his textbooks
[17:25] <arko> Which journal?
[17:25] <eroomde> not maths heavy, just systems level, e.g. these sensors go into an exttend KF which going into a circular buffer which talks to this process
[17:25] <eroomde> etc
[17:25] <eroomde> don't know. was on his home page
[17:25] <eroomde> do you have a copy of Bishop?
[17:26] <arko> Ohnneat
[17:26] <eroomde> if you like ML then you must have a copy of Bishop
[17:26] <arko> Yes
[17:26] <eroomde> GOOD
[17:26] <arko> Pdf
[17:26] <eroomde> then we can be firends
[17:26] <arko> Hahaha
[17:26] <eroomde> also Mackay is great and explains stuff a little more approachably
[17:26] <eroomde> free pdf too
[17:26] <eroomde> that's less ML and more seeing the world according to Bayes
[17:27] <eroomde> it covers information theory, inference techniques, and learning algorithms
[17:27] <arko> Of course youd like it
[17:27] <arko> Bayes
[17:27] <eroomde> especially good for the theory behind FEC
[17:27] <eroomde> which comes under the information theory sections
[17:30] <arko> Man, i need to organize my books
[17:30] <arko> Thank god this lecture is over
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[17:33] <arko> Time for the next boring lecture of material i already know
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[17:38] <anerDev> hi folks !
[17:39] <arko> eroomde damn dude, i wish i had more knowledge
[17:39] <arko> I love this stuff, but it takes so long tonnot only learn
[17:39] <arko> But to retain
[17:39] <arko> To a certaindegree
[17:40] <arko> Im gonna pick at your brain when you get here
[17:40] <cuddykid> arko: what uni are you at?
[17:40] <arko> Cal poly pomona
[17:40] <arko> Its a sad place
[17:41] <cuddykid> ah nice
[17:41] <arko> Could afford nicer unis
[17:41] <cuddykid> at least it's in sunny cali :) unlike this country I'm in..
[17:41] <arko> Haha
[17:41] <arko> Its nice here indeed
[17:43] <arko> http://db.tt/wJzloOhA
[17:43] <cuddykid> lovely
[17:43] <arko> Just took that
[17:43] <arko> Tablet camera sucks
[17:44] <cuddykid> here currently - dark & raining
[17:44] <arko> :(
[17:44] <arko> I should have appied to other unis
[17:44] <arko> Thinking back
[17:45] <arko> My gpa has always been above 3.7
[17:45] <arko> Im at 3.9 here
[17:46] <arko> Im sure i could have gone somewhere better :/
[17:46] <eroomde> well, there's not much to retain after a while
[17:46] <eroomde> you just see a new thing and you're like 'that's just bayes rule with some frills'
[17:46] <eroomde> a bit like what supposedly you get when you work through SICP
[17:47] <arko> Heh
[17:47] <eroomde> you get presented with some super new all star niche computer language and you think 'oh that's just a nice syntax for something i already did in scheme'
[17:47] <arko> Ahh makes sense
[17:48] <arko> Remember and retain fundamentals
[17:48] <arko> Ok time to move my ass and get to the next lecture
[17:48] <eroomde> time to go home!
[17:48] <arko> This starbucks is terrible
[17:48] <arko> Lucky!
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[17:51] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
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[18:05] <Randomskk> science. https://twitter.com/search?q=%23overlyhonestmethods
[18:10] <anerDev> I have a question about yagi antenna, who can help me ?
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[18:13] <mfa298> anerDev: that probably depends on what the question is, try asking and I'm sure someone will answer (I'll help where I can)
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[18:14] <anerDev> oh thank you mfa298
[18:15] <anerDev> so, there is a scheme or a online calculator tool
[18:15] <anerDev> for measure the dimension of yagi antenna ?
[18:15] <anerDev> lenght, width, space and other !
[18:16] <anerDev> and the second question is: there is a difference if I use 2 mm of wire or a tubolar for the conductor (dipole, reflector, ?) ?
[18:16] <mfa298> I think there are some tools to help you work out the measurements
[18:16] <mfa298> but as you add more elements it gets harder to design and build
[18:16] <nigelvh> And yes, the shape and size of the elements will make an impact.
[18:17] <anerDev> I'm surfing on internet and there are many site to describe how build yagi antenna
[18:17] <mfa298> and what you use for the elements can make a difference.
[18:17] <anerDev> but I search an stadard measure !
[18:18] <anerDev> for example, this tool is good ? http://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/yagi_uda_antenna.php
[18:18] <mfa298> I'm not sure there is a standard way of doing it.
[18:19] <mfa298> the number of elements will have an impact on the length of the various elements and their spacing
[18:19] <anerDev> sure, plus elements much the signal is good ! or no ?
[18:20] <nigelvh> Yagi's don't strictly follow a formula. There are a number of reasonable approximations, but you really have to simulate them to get real results. For general purposes, any of the online calculators should be fine.
[18:20] <mfa298> more elements in theory make it more directional however the amount you get per additional element reduces and the complexity increases
[18:21] <anerDev> oh sure !
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> yagis follow maxwells formulae
[18:22] <anerDev> just moment, I search maxwells formulae
[18:22] <mfa298> anerDev: what is it you actually want to acheive ?
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> in practice, you don't want to solve yagis analytically
[18:23] <anerDev> I need to receive 2 signals: 434 Mhz and 869 Mhz
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> find a site with goog Poland
[18:23] <anerDev> for the first I use this tutorial http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> good plans
[18:23] <anerDev> for the second I'm searching a similar tutorial
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> it should work just fine at double the frequency
[18:24] <mfa298> where are you recieving the signals from - is it for recieving a HAB ?
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> 869=434*2
[18:25] <anerDev> HAB ? what's ?
[18:25] <mfa298> HAB - High Altitude Balloon
[18:25] <anerDev> for an weather ballon
[18:25] <anerDev> huahua
[18:25] <anerDev> SpeedEvil
[18:25] <anerDev> can I use the same antenna for 434 and 869 MHz ?
[18:26] <anerDev> for receive ?
[18:26] <mfa298> assuming it's vertical polarisation you'll need to think about how its mounted as well. puting a vertical yagi on a metal pole is a bad idea
[18:27] <anerDev> and if I put the yagi antenna on a plastic tube ?
[18:27] <mfa298> you'll also need to be able to rotate it to point towards the balloon.
[18:28] <mfa298> if you can get a suitably rigid plastic tube that work work, but a large yagi gets heavy
[18:29] <anerDev> oh yes
[18:29] <anerDev> But for move the yagi antenna
[18:29] <anerDev> I can do a machine like this:
[18:30] <mfa298> I had a feeling 2nd harmonic on an antenna wasn't so good as the elements are likely to be 1/2wave on one band and a whole wave length on the other
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[18:30] <anerDev> I use a plastic tube, 3 meters, on the top I mount the yaagi antenna with a hinge for up and down move
[18:31] <costyn> anerDev: there are very very cheap yagi's on ebay. I think buying the materials would be more expensive than getting one of these
[18:31] <anerDev> and for rotate, right left, I move the tube from the bottom
[18:32] <anerDev> I'm searching the yagi antenna on ebay
[18:32] <mfa298> anerDev: as costyn said, you're probably best looking at ebay. The only time making your own might be worth while is if it's very few elements (i.e. driven element, 1 reflector and 1 director)
[18:32] <mfa298> I'm not sure you'll get a dualband one
[18:33] <anerDev> the medium price is 50 euro !
[18:33] <costyn> anerDev: I can't find one right now
[18:33] <anerDev> I'm on ebay now .. the price is very high !
[18:33] <mfa298> for a base station setup you're probably best off with some sort of vertical (colinear or similar)
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[18:34] <costyn> anerDev: yea the ones I found are high
[18:34] <anerDev> I don't understand the latest response of mfa298
[18:34] <costyn> DrLuke: ping
[18:35] <mfa298> the benefit of buying one is you know it will work for the frequency it's specced for. If you build one your self how will you know it works well on the frequency you want it for.
[18:36] <mfa298> anerDev: I'm suggesting that for a base setup (something that's not mobile) a vertical antenna (like a colinear) is probably better than a yagi.
[18:36] <anerDev> ahh ok ok
[18:36] <anerDev> colinear is like a simple wire ?
[18:37] <anerDev> lamda lenght ?
[18:37] <Randomskk> no
[18:37] <Randomskk> it's like a stacked array of antennas
[18:37] <DrLuke> hey costyn
[18:37] <mfa298> a vertical antenna could be a simple wire, a colinear is a special design,
[18:37] <costyn> DrLuke: you were the one that found the cheap yagi on ebay right?
[18:38] <DrLuke> yeah
[18:38] <mfa298> there's a range of vertical antenna designs (jpole being another)
[18:38] <costyn> DrLuke: how did you find it? was it a shop or a private person?
[18:38] <costyn> DrLuke: trying to find it again for anerDev
[18:38] <DrLuke> I just searched for 70cm yagi
[18:38] <DrLuke> it was a private person
[18:38] <DrLuke> and one was a shop
[18:38] <DrLuke> (I bought 2)
[18:38] <DrLuke> give me a sec
[18:38] <costyn> DrLuke: ah yes
[18:38] <costyn> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/70-cm-UHF-Yagi-Richtantenne-Amateurfunk-PMR-BOS-Antenne-/250826224761?pt=DE_Handys_Kommunikation_Antennen&hash=item3a66687479#ht_2777wt_1102
[18:39] <DrLuke> http://www.ebay.de/itm/350-500-MHz-70cm-Band-Richtantenne-9dBi-YAGI-ABY7LB-/110998171358?pt=DE_Handys_Kommunikation_Antennen&hash=item19d801aede
[18:39] <costyn> 9 euros
[18:39] <DrLuke> that's one I got
[18:39] <DrLuke> and the other was private
[18:39] <DrLuke> yep
[18:39] <DrLuke> better than anything you could do yourself for that price
[18:39] <costyn> anerDev: you see those? thats the one you should be looking for
[18:40] <costyn> anerDev: for 10 euros plus some shipping it's hard to make it cheaper yourself
[18:40] <anerDev> oh fantastic !
[18:40] <anerDev> is very cheap
[18:40] <mfa298> anerDev: if you want to build something a jpole or dipole are probably easier.
[18:40] <anerDev> dipole is no a directional antenna ?
[18:40] <anerDev> this is a colinear antenna ? http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/guerrilla.net/reference/antennas/2ghz_collinear_omni/end_element1.jpg
[18:40] <anerDev> thank you DrLuke
[18:40] <DrLuke> you're welcome
[18:41] <costyn> DrLuke: yea thanks :)
[18:41] <DrLuke> it's also very very light
[18:41] <costyn> yup
[18:41] <DrLuke> so you can easil use some small servos to make an automatic tracker if you fancy so
[18:41] <costyn> hehe
[18:41] <DrLuke> and my huge 2,35m antenna also is surprisingly light
[18:42] <DrLuke> 2.35m for everyone outside of germany
[18:42] <DrLuke> :)
[18:42] <costyn> DrLuke: we use that silly separator too here
[18:42] <costyn> s/too here/here too/
[18:43] <anerDev> but this antenna work for 434 Mhz
[18:43] <DrLuke> yeah
[18:43] <costyn> anerDev: yea ... 350 - 500
[18:43] <anerDev> and if I would like to receive
[18:43] <DrLuke> it has a range of 350 - 500
[18:43] <mfa298> dipole and jpole etc aren't directional but for a HAB base station that may not be a problem.
[18:43] <anerDev> 869 Mhz ?
[18:43] <anerDev> okok mfa298
[18:43] <DrLuke> then you need another antenna
[18:43] <costyn> anerDev: why do you need 860?
[18:43] <costyn> 869
[18:43] <DrLuke> it will smaller than the 70cm antenna
[18:43] <DrLuke> *be
[18:43] <costyn> anyways, I need to go
[18:44] <DrLuke> bye
[18:44] <costyn> bye
[18:44] <anerDev> because I ordered 2 transmitter: NTX2 and Aurel TX869
[18:44] <DrLuke> anerDev: just note that that antenna has a weird connect
[18:44] <anerDev> the yagi ebay antenna ?
[18:44] <DrLuke> FME Connector (male)
[18:44] <DrLuke> yeah
[18:45] <anerDev> don't have a classic bnc connecor ?
[18:45] <DrLuke> you'll need an adapter to sma for it
[18:45] <DrLuke> nah
[18:45] <anerDev> ahh
[18:45] <anerDev> have an SMA connecot ?
[18:45] <anerDev> connector
[18:45] <DrLuke> not yet
[18:45] <DrLuke> need to buy one
[18:45] <DrLuke> I actually need to buy one of upu's dongles with the sma connector
[18:45] <DrLuke> upu's dongle hehehehe
[18:45] <x-f> aww.. shipping is 20 euros for the first one :/
[18:46] <anerDev> O.0
[18:46] <DrLuke> also it comes with a vertical wall mount for all your wall mounting needs
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[18:47] <anerDev> the antenna have FME connecotr ?
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[18:48] <anerDev> I think I buy this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/350-500-MHz-70cm-Band-Richtantenne-9dBi-YAGI-ABY7LB-/110998171358?pt=DE_Handys_Kommunikation_Antennen&hash=item19d801aede#ht_1438wt_1413
[18:48] <anerDev> now I contact the seller for information about the connector
[18:54] <mfa298> hmmm, that looks to have about the same gain as my vertical (although that cost a bit more)
[18:54] <mfa298> has a better front to back ratio though
[18:59] <anerDev> thank you guys !
[18:59] <anerDev> I build a dipole
[18:59] <anerDev> and I testing
[18:59] <anerDev> after I wiil buyng a yagi antenna
[19:00] <mfa298> there's a lot of joy to be had building simple antennas - and if you can build a simple one that works well you can move onto something more complex.
[19:00] <anerDev> yes ! =D
[19:00] <anerDev> question for transmitter:
[19:00] <mfa298> I've built a couple of dipoles for 2m (145MHz) which also work well on 70cms.
[19:01] <anerDev> with 10mW what's the range of transmission ?
[19:01] <anerDev> 50 km ?
[19:01] <mfa298> these dipoles use a bit of ABS plumbing pipe and some threaded rod - all availble at the local hardware store.
[19:01] <craag> anerDev: If you have line-of-sight, 700km!
[19:01] <craag> +
[19:01] <mfa298> for high frequencies it's mostly down to line of site. at least on 70cms
[19:01] <craag> Through buildings, maybe 100 metres or less.
[19:02] <craag> (for 70cm, 434MHz)
[19:02] <mfa298> the 896 might be less than Line of site if it's only 10mW
[19:03] <craag> Planning on using 868MHz?
[19:04] <mfa298> it may also vary with what you're sending, 10mW probably won't do voice for that distance and definetly won't manage video.
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[19:06] <fsphil> you can use 500mw on 869mhz
[19:06] <fsphil> but only for 10% of the time
[19:07] <fsphil> it would suit packet pretty well
[19:07] <craag> Or use listen-before-talk?
[19:07] <fsphil> at altitude you'd hear a lot though
[19:07] <mfa298> then we'll need a good source of 869 recievers
[19:07] <fsphil> I've a few receivers that cover it but no antennas
[19:08] <number10> you can use 100mw on 865
[19:08] <craag> Yeah. I've got an 868MHz rfm22, planning to fly it and transmit the RSSI back.
[19:08] <craag> On 10% cycle.
[19:08] <mfa298> i think my handy can do 869 (but the batteries flat so I can't check)
[19:08] <number10> on 865 no restriction on duty cycle
[19:09] <craag> number10: Oh ok.. that sounds good!
[19:09] <number10> IR2030/13/21
[19:09] <mattbrejza> it says 'mitigate interference to other users,' which could be interpreted as 'my payload will be miles away from anything, so path loss will mean the power is low on the ground, so any local system will just drown mine out'
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[19:09] <fsphil> I don't see 13/21
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[19:10] <craag> page 34
[19:11] <fsphil> oh 13/2 -- tiny 1
[19:11] <craag> Application: 'Radio Frequency Identification' though
[19:11] <fsphil> there's a 500mw one a few sections down
[19:11] <fsphil> 13/4(2)
[19:11] <fsphil> or is that (1)
[19:11] <fsphil> I can't read it
[19:11] <fsphil> RFID probably doesn't cover what we do :)
[19:12] <fsphil> there's a 2 watt one just above that
[19:12] <mattbrejza> at the top it says you can combine adjacent bands, so can you combine the 10 25kHz 868MHz 500mW bands into a single 250kHz 5W band? (numbers might be wrong, i dont have the doc open)
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[19:13] <eroomde> is there anything about duty cycle?
[19:13] <fsphil> no mention of duty cycle on the RFID sections
[19:13] <fsphil> but RFID systems don't transmit continously anyway
[19:13] <number10> ues I dont think so eroomde - it was I think something you pointed out a little while back
[19:14] <fsphil> but I really doubt we can use those rules
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[19:16] <anerDev> WOOOOW
[19:16] <anerDev> 700 KM !!
[19:16] <anerDev> from my town to Rome ! ahuhauhua
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[19:17] <mfa298> the rfid one also says only cat iii can be used airborne in the bit I'm looking at
[19:17] <mfa298> implying the others cant be used airborne
[19:18] <fsphil> whatcha doin anerDev?
[19:18] <mfa298> cat iii being 13.5Mhz at 60dBuA/m @10m
[19:18] <fsphil> the other modes do say allowed for airborne
[19:18] <number10> fsphil: how about IR2030/1/19 500mw - non specific - airborne - just need to listen before talk
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[19:19] <mclane> Bonsoir, F6AGV
[19:19] <fsphil> number10: that's the best bet. although that still requires gaps
[19:19] <fsphil> and being LOS with a good chunk of the country, 869mhz might be noisy
[19:20] <number10> yea
[19:20] <fsphil> although the receivers we use are not very sensitive
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[19:21] <mfa298> need a habamp for 869MHz
[19:21] <fsphil> well the point being you don't want to receive much :)
[19:21] <fsphil> then you can transmit more
[19:22] <craag> I'm thinking that it's sufficient enough to fly a data-collection for rssi level, and then set a threshold above the average level seen.
[19:22] <anerDev> fsphil: what's whatcha ??
[19:22] <fsphil> whatcha = lazy way of typing "what are you"
[19:22] <craag> mfa298: I found some cheap saw filters! Just swap them out with the one in the habamp.
[19:23] <fsphil> the preamp would need to be swapped too
[19:23] <craag> fsphil: Really?
[19:23] <fsphil> I think so
[19:23] <craag> I thought it was based on one of g4ddk's wideband designs?
[19:23] <mattbrejza> ive looked into this before and i thought it was just switching the SAW filter for ones you can get from rapdi
[19:23] <craag> Most of them are good to well over 1 GHz.
[19:23] <mfa298> fsphil: sorry I was thinking for our ground recievers (which might want to be more sensitive)
[19:24] <fsphil> I suspect you're right. I think it was adapting it as a GPS pre-amp that wasn't going to work
[19:25] <craag> fsphil: The device is apparently rated to 4GHz.
[19:25] <craag> But I might test it out if I get time.
[19:26] <fsphil> nice
[19:26] <fsphil> wonder if a pre-amp and filter would help with 2.4ghz wifi
[19:26] <craag> Normal PCB won't do anywhere near that.
[19:26] <fsphil> or would a wifi adaptor already have these
[19:26] <anerDev> HAB I'm making fsphil !
[19:26] <mclane> ping F6AGV
[19:27] <fsphil> aah. what's the 700km range anerDev?
[19:46] <F6AGV> sorry mc lane hello I'm in return here
[19:48] <F6AGV> you speek french, mc lane THANKS for tralation DL-FLDIGI guide !
[19:48] <F6AGV> translation sorry
[19:48] <Upu> Is it good F6AGV ?
[19:49] <mclane> salut, f6agv, j'ai envoyé un email a ton adresse, est-ce que tu pourrais corriger le guide d'utilisation dl-fldigi? Etant Allemand, je suis sur que j'ai mal traduisé
[19:49] <F6AGV> Yeah, news about ATLAS ?
[19:50] <F6AGV> OK, je vais le lire, il est sur mon blog pour les stations F qui ne connaissent pas la langue
[19:51] <F6AGV> I'm waiting for news from F4FHR located in ATLAS landing aera !
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[19:52] <F6AGV> Upu best 73
[19:52] <Upu> I'll put it on the front page of ukhas.org.uk
[19:52] <Upu> thx mclane
[19:58] <F6AGV> je suis en train de corriger, pas grand chose, surtout les fameux accents (graves et aigus !) Résultat sur mon blog.
[19:58] OZ1SKY_Brian (535c780a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.92.120.10) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] <F6AGV> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.fr/2013/01/informations-sur-dl-fldigi-hab-en.html
[19:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi
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[20:02] <mclane> oui, c'est mon point faible (et celui de mon clavier allemand ;-))
[20:03] <fsphil> I think I just spotted FITSAT-1
[20:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the leds?
[20:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> or is that another sat
[20:04] <fsphil> yea it was blinking
[20:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cool
[20:05] <fsphil> when I was leaving work I saw two objects just a few degrees apart moving in parallel
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[20:06] <fsphil> was wondering if there had been a launch somewhere
[20:07] <fsphil> hmmm... can't be fitsat-1
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[20:08] <fsphil> just looked up the track, it's over the US at the moment
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: ping
[20:09] <fsphil> that's just odd
[20:10] <F6AGV> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.fr/2013/01/texte-dl-fldigi-en-francais-cor.html
[20:11] <F6AGV> mc lane tu peux trouver le texte corrigé sur le lien précédent COR : OK QSL ?
[20:11] <mclane> merci, je vais corriger dans le wiki
[20:11] <F6AGV> tu peux m'envoyer tout ce que tu veux, no problem !
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[20:16] <fsphil> ah, it's adam whatchamacallhim
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[20:17] <daveake> Steltzner
[20:18] <fsphil> that robot is BIG
[20:18] <daveake> Bigger than yours?
[20:18] <fsphil> only slightly
[20:18] <fsphil> I must get some pics of mine
[20:19] <griffonbot> Received email: hotrod460 "[UKHAS] newbie"
[20:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Launch Friday from Denmark"
[20:19] <fsphil> I'm considering calling it "Beagleish"
[20:19] <mfa298> I hadn't realised curiosity was so big
[20:20] <fsphil> yea I remember the first pictures, I thought it wasn't that bad
[20:20] <fsphil> then I saw a picture of someone standing beside it
[20:21] <fsphil> I think Adam is stalking Liz
[20:22] <fsphil> daveake, that've got more monitors than you
[20:22] <fsphil> they*
[20:22] <daveake> I'd stalk Liz too
[20:23] <daveake> And yes I have monitor-envy :)
[20:25] <F6AGV> night all !
[20:25] <Upu> night
[20:25] <nigelvh> Evening
[20:26] <F6AGV> A+
[20:26] <fsphil> nite F6AGV
[20:26] <F6AGV> Nite
[20:26] <mclane> a bientôt! (voir l'accent!)
[20:26] Nick change: nigelvh -> k7nvh
[20:26] <F6AGV> au revoir mon ami !
[20:26] <mclane> ;-)
[20:26] Nick change: k7nvh -> nigelvh
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[20:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Brian Kalstrup Hougesen "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Friday from Denmark"
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[20:37] <Randomskk> talking of high altitude
[20:37] <Randomskk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b1An1MFwXxQ
[20:37] <Randomskk> ffffffffff
[20:39] <nigelvh> fffffffffffffff is right.
[20:39] <mclane> they ARE crazy!!!
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[20:40] <fsphil> I feel funny just watching that
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:40] <fsphil> ahoy there captain' lunar
[20:40] <Upu> Evening Lunar
[20:41] <fsphil> brian may brian may
[20:41] <Randomskk> at five minutes they start doing it _at night_
[20:41] <nigelvh> "Yes, lets jump off a building at night...."
[20:42] <Randomskk> and at 5.30 they start swinging off ropes
[20:43] <nigelvh> Though, if you're going to jump off a building, that one looks pretty well designed for it.
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[21:09] <fsphil> there's a lot of hand waving in this show
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> which one?
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[21:11] <fsphil> stargazing live's after show thingy
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> there is an aftershow?
[21:14] <fsphil> yea
[21:14] <fsphil> "back to earth"
[21:15] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: pong
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> hi there
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[21:15] <Laurenceb_> i was going to ask you about a control issue
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> remeber my linear actuator?
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> ive got it running with a stepper motor
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> but it proving a pain to control
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> ive got it to go to position setpoints
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> and thats working well - about 50ms to go from end stop to end stop
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> but im trying to control applied pressure, this is getting weird
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[21:18] <Laurenceb_> its oscillating even tho it should be doing optimal control
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> code is here https://github.com/Laurenceb/Chibi-Spectro/blob/master/threads/EKF_Pressure.c#L252
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> its very messed up with comments atm
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> line 284 im not using all the info from the kalman filter any more
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> trying to do something simple, but it needs the factor of 4
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> otherwise it starts oscillating
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> and i dont see how oscillation is even possible
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> itll oscillate with a period of around 300ms
[21:23] <griffonbot> @SandritaBae: #HABE2 gaindituta :D [http://twitter.com/SandritaBae/status/288757960153387008]
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, does it run right after the main show?
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> and i dont see how i could have accumulated enough lag for that kind of oscillation period, as the main loop is at 100hz
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> i cant find any lag introduced by the code at all
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> i mean... the median filter on the adc data will do some odd stuff, but its not going to give much lag
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> everything past line 289 seems to be working as far as i can tell - motor control code
[21:29] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: yea
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> ill take that as eroomde getting utterly confused by the code
[21:38] <eroomde> yo
[21:38] <eroomde> sorry was elsewhere
[21:39] <eroomde> let me digest the scrollback
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> my board now got JST power connectors
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/3/d/3/5yvk28-kjs88j-j8zt/IMG6466.jpeg
[21:40] <eroomde> fsphil: what am i missing?
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[21:43] <fsphil> um?
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[21:43] Nick change: [1]Boggle -> Boggle
[21:43] Action: fsphil is payload box'ing
[21:43] <eroomde> Laurenceb_:
[21:43] <eroomde> float overshoot_velocity = sqrtf( 2*Actuator->MaxAcc*(stop_distance-fabs(delta)+0.001 )
[21:43] <eroomde> what's the 0.001 for?
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[21:44] <eroomde> line 321 sorry
[21:44] <lz1dev> probably so its not 0
[21:45] <eroomde> not sure if it matters much if it is
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[21:49] <eroomde> unless it's a hack to avoid denormalised floating point, i guess
[21:49] <eroomde> but i don't know if that's a thing with small micros and gcc defaults
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[22:02] <griffonbot> Received email: chris G7OGX "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Friday from Denmark"
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[22:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Brian Hougesen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch Friday from Denmark"
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[22:19] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: its a bit of a hack
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> sorry was cooking
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> behaviour doesnt change with the 0.001 removed
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> its left over from me messing about with random hacks all over the place...
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> oh when i said about factor of 4.0, i meant line 284
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> theres a load of /4.0 and stuff in other places as the stepper interrupt runs at 400hz and the loop at 100hz
[22:23] <arko> Afternoon
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> but yeah, all the motor control stuff with acceleration/deceleration seems to be working fine
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> its the pressure control thats leaving me confused
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> this is running on an STM32F4
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[22:28] <Laurenceb_> as long as the "spring constant" from the kalman is sane then line 284 should work?
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> actuator_midway_position is used to try and account for the sampling times at the ADC
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[22:37] <Laurenceb_> as i see it... theres no source of lag
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> other than the sensor itself.. analogue front end
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[22:41] <Laurenceb_> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=242197
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> with open loop "control"
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> signs of some weird delay there.. position is a nice S curve
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[23:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn all
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 9 2013