highaltitude.log.20121228

[00:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "[UKHAS] New dl-fldigi Release (mandatory upgrade!)"
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[00:55] <mrShrimp> Hi, anyone on?
[00:57] <arko> the internet?
[00:57] <mrShrimp> yes hi!
[00:58] <Darkside> yo
[00:58] <arko> hello shrimp
[00:58] <arko> damn im hungry now
[00:58] <mrShrimp> I'm having trouble with my transmission script
[00:58] <mrShrimp> can I get some help?
[00:59] <mrShrimp> ...I need to post it somewhere
[01:00] <arko> pastebin?
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> 4chan
[01:00] <arko> lol
[01:00] <mrShrimp> pastebin looks right, thanks!
[01:01] <arko> i would love to answer questions through 4chan
[01:01] <mrShrimp> :p
[01:04] <mrShrimp> Here it is
[01:04] <mrShrimp> http://pastebin.com/RgRZ8QsN
[01:04] <mrShrimp> the lines were dropped down on some of them
[01:05] <mrShrimp> but basically I used Robert Harrison's code from this tutorial: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[01:05] <arko> whats the problem?
[01:05] <mrShrimp> when I use the code
[01:05] <mrShrimp> from that tutorial
[01:05] <mrShrimp> it works fine
[01:06] <mrShrimp> but when I use this code, which is copied and pasted from that tutorial, the signal is screwed up
[01:06] <mrShrimp> When I listen in on the signal, it looks like it transmits for one second
[01:06] <Darkside> define: screwed up
[01:06] <mrShrimp> then stops
[01:06] <mrShrimp> then transmits again
[01:06] <mrShrimp> and stops
[01:06] <mrShrimp> I should get a screenshot :p
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[01:07] <mrShrimp> that might take a while though
[01:07] <mrShrimp> instead of the radio signal being continous
[01:07] <mrShrimp> it stops incrementally and starts again
[01:07] <mrShrimp> The string is ok, the transmission code is the same as what is in the tutorial, but they don't work together
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[01:09] <mrShrimp> I think I will get a screenshot
[01:09] <mrShrimp> and maybe an mp3 file too
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[01:10] <arko> does it loop once?
[01:10] <arko> and break
[01:11] <arko> or does it keep looping broken transmission?
[01:11] <mrShrimp> it keeps looping the transmission
[01:11] <mrShrimp> and the microcontroller says the code was transmitted successfully
[01:11] <arko> why did you get rid of the delay(2000);
[01:11] <arko> ?
[01:11] <mrShrimp> I added it back in, no difference
[01:11] <arko> ok
[01:12] <arko> i have beyond compare open
[01:12] <arko> with both of those
[01:12] <arko> baud rates are correct?
[01:12] <mrShrimp> yes
[01:12] <arko> that sprintf worries me
[01:12] <mrShrimp> when I tell it to print the string
[01:12] <mrShrimp> it is correct data
[01:12] <arko> hmm
[01:13] <arko> do you get any data out?
[01:13] <arko> like half the packet?
[01:13] <mrShrimp> just gibberish
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[01:13] <mrShrimp> but then again, I am using sterio mixer instead of buying virtual audio cable
[01:13] <mrShrimp> but that hasn't been a problem in the past
[01:14] <arko> what does sprintf return
[01:14] <arko> its a char array right?
[01:14] <mrShrimp> yes
[01:14] <arko> well, you give it a char array
[01:14] <mrShrimp> the same one as defined at the beginning
[01:14] <arko> hmm
[01:14] <arko> do you have a logic analyzer?
[01:14] <mrShrimp> just a string
[01:14] <mrShrimp> what's that?
[01:14] <arko> tap into the data line going to the rf modulator
[01:15] <arko> it a device that tells you the digital data going through a data line
[01:15] <mrShrimp> the circuit is correct
[01:15] <mrShrimp> I tested it with a fixed packet
[01:15] <arko> and it worked?
[01:15] <mrShrimp> yes
[01:15] <arko> hmmm
[01:15] <arko> so hardware is working
[01:15] <mrShrimp> let me get a screenshot
[01:15] <mrShrimp> as far as I can tell
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[01:16] <mrShrimp> brb in 5 minutes
[01:16] <arko> did you change your hardware since testing it?
[01:17] <gonzo_mob> you give sprintf the pointer to the start of a byte array. but it has no knowledge of the size of that array
[01:17] <gonzo_mob> in classic c at least
[01:18] <arko> if you did char data[] = "test";
[01:18] <arko> and you get "test" back
[01:18] <arko> i would blame the sprintf
[01:18] <arko> gonzo has a good point
[01:19] <arko> remember microcontroller c for arduino is complied with a different complier than whatever your pc used
[01:21] <arko> wait a second
[01:21] <arko> arduino
[01:21] <arko> it doesn't support floating point
[01:21] <arko> you cant do sprintf
[01:22] <Darkside> there are functions to convert a float to a strin gtho
[01:22] <zyp> of course you can
[01:22] <arko> i swear i remember this same problem
[01:22] <Darkside> dtostrf
[01:22] <Darkside> and you can use sprintf
[01:22] <Darkside> but it just won't do float conversion for you
[01:22] <arko> ohh
[01:23] <arko> i thought it wasnt implemented at all
[01:23] <arko> derp
[01:23] <zyp> if you try using floating point functionality the compiler will substitute floating point instructions with calls to a software emulation library
[01:24] <zyp> which you still might want to avoid though, for performance reasons
[01:24] <arko> sounds like a C++ background person :P
[01:24] <arko> i haven't heard of anyone that actually does sprintf in their code
[01:25] <arko> for atmel 8-bit
[01:25] <zyp> true, because printf is huge
[01:25] <arko> if your hardware doesn't have a floating point engine, don't use it
[01:25] <arko> even if there are these little "hacks" around it
[01:25] <zyp> why not?
[01:26] <arko> it's not kosher
[01:26] <arko> :P
[01:26] <arko> well, if you read the docs and make sure you understand exactly what the function is doing, sure
[01:26] <zyp> if floating point is a suitable fit for your applications and the achieved performance is acceptable, what reasons do you have for not using it?
[01:26] <arko> but for n00bies
[01:27] <arko> because floats aren't something atmega's are designed to handle
[01:27] <arko> they "fake it"
[01:27] <arko> im not going to jump into the details
[01:27] <zyp> the same can be said about any datatype larger than 8 bits.
[01:27] <arko> floats are different
[01:28] <arko> they are a representation of a number
[01:28] <zyp> so are ints. :p
[01:28] <arko> rather than short, long, int
[01:28] <arko> yes and no
[01:28] <mrShrimp> so... the circuit doesn't work now after I left it out all night -_-
[01:28] <arko> hey fun!
[01:28] <mrShrimp> I bet my cats messed it up
[01:28] <zyp> you don't need to lecture me on this, I know the layout of a float in memory
[01:28] <arko> im not lecturing, chill
[01:28] <zyp> :)
[01:29] <arko> it's just a common mistake for people new to C for microcontrollers to treat code they see for their computers like code for their 8-bit microprocessor
[01:29] <arko> most of the time that happens with floats
[01:30] <mrShrimp> arko, you are saying that the sprintf might be the problem, but in the tutorial's script sprintf is used.
[01:30] <arko> vOv
[01:30] <zyp> well, I'm not new to microcontrollers either :)
[01:30] <arko> this was more for mrShrimp, im sure you do
[01:30] <arko> you sound like you know more than me really
[01:31] <arko> im rusty on avr
[01:31] <zyp> I did a project at work last year, with an algorithm operating on floats running on an AVR, it worked pretty great apart from being slow
[01:31] <arko> naturally
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[01:31] <arko> i think i have beef with sprintf
[01:32] <zyp> so I ported it to 8.24 fixedpoint, and was a bit surprised to find it was still slow
[01:32] <arko> huh
[01:32] <arko> really?
[01:32] <zyp> a loop iteration went from 16ms to 12ms
[01:32] <arko> hmm
[01:32] <arko> sounds about right actually
[01:33] <zyp> turned out that the way avr-gcc does 32x32->64bit multiplications were horrible
[01:33] <arko> from there you can only cut precision
[01:33] <zyp> and I had 55 or so multiplications
[01:33] <arko> >_< yikes
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[01:34] <zyp> 8.24x8.24 turns into 16.48, and then you drop upper 8 and lower 24 bits to make it 8.24 again
[01:34] <zyp> so therefore 32x32->64 is needed
[01:35] <zyp> after rewriting the multiplication routine with some inline asm, iteration time went down to 2.6ms
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[01:36] <zyp> which were a six times speedup over the float implementation
[01:37] <arko> crap i need to go home
[01:37] <zyp> have fun
[01:37] <arko> sorry, i love chatting about c for micros
[01:37] <arko> laters!
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[01:39] <zyp> arko, we have to do the c vs c++ for micros-discussion one day, I tend to enjoy that :p
[01:51] <mrShrimp> http://filebin.ca/RVwje4yLaEB
[01:51] <mrShrimp> http://filebin.ca/RVwtwsSJtO1
[01:51] <mrShrimp> Here is the mp3 file and the screenshot
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[03:31] <arko> sigh
[03:31] <arko> im too tired to think
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[05:47] <heathkid> arko: I think I'm to tired to think but I'm not sure I'm thinking
[05:47] <heathkid> too
[05:47] <heathkid> need a spell checker!
[05:47] <heathkid> or grammar
[05:47] <heathkid> any launches today?
[05:52] <arko> i dunno
[05:52] <arko> i wish
[05:52] <arko> im doing some 3d diff eqs >_<
[05:52] <arko> makes my head hurt
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[06:59] <griffonbot> Received email: anerDev "[UKHAS] Re: New dl-fldigi Release (mandatory upgrade!)"
[06:59] <griffonbot> Received email: anerDev "[UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
[07:02] <Darkside> lol
[07:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: New dl-fldigi Release (mandatory upgrade!)"
[07:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
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[08:05] <costyn> morning
[08:05] <arko> good morning
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[10:31] <gonzo_p> commitments meant I missed the launch window for BONZO3, and the wx looks like crap got
[10:31] <gonzo_p> for the next wek
[10:31] <gonzo_p> week
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[10:53] <UpuWork> ping jarod
[10:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "[UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
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[10:54] <jarod> sup?
[10:54] <UpuWork> hey Jarod you're into the ADS-B stuff ?
[10:54] <jarod> (no highlight, just coincidence)
[10:54] <jarod> a bit...
[10:54] <UpuWork> quick PM
[10:54] <jarod> sure
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[11:07] <UpuWork> ping Dark3D
[11:07] <UpuWork> hello :)
[11:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
[11:16] <nick_> eroomde: have you seen the video of space x's grasshopper?
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> awesome
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> very thunderbirdsesque
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[11:34] <kokey> my last day at the bank
[11:34] <kokey> then I'm free
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[11:36] <fsphil> when people leave banks do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> river, investment, retail, bottle, sperm?
[11:37] <daveake> No they just lose interest
[11:37] <Navrac_play> oh dear......
[11:38] <kokey> haha
[11:38] <kokey> both retail and investment
[11:40] <kokey> busy filling in my exit interview questions
[11:40] <kokey> they ask which firm I am going to, and list other banks
[11:40] <kokey> haha
[11:45] <kokey> funky questions though, they ask which other banks and how much they are paying etc.
[11:46] <kokey> so they can figure out who of their competitors are taking their staff and how/why
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[11:47] <kokey> we had to hand back our bedside lamps to the inlaws
[11:48] <kokey> so I took a bunch of LEDs that I have, stuffed them in a row on the breadboard my modules for my payload are in, and power them
[11:48] <kokey> didn't want to take the modules out yet since I've got a wee bit more code to write and I need to note the wiring
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[14:24] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Hello, do people use 'backup trackers' incase their radio dies? I know using a mobile phone sending it's GPS to somewhere is definitely not a good primary tracker (cant use it at height, might land where no signal etc...) but, as a backup, 'last hope of finding the payload' kind of thing, is it a good idea?
[14:25] <Navrac_play> yes some people do - you cant have too many backups
[14:25] <daveake> Depends ... if it's a valuable payload then I do
[14:27] <STRATODEAN_Mark> OK, so what kind of phone do you use? I have a spare iphone 4 and wondering if that would do
[14:28] <Navrac_play> you can buy cheap gprs/gps trackers from china for £25
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[14:30] <dsjohn> hello, i had some questions on sending rtty messages using arduino
[14:30] <UpuWork> shoot
[14:30] <Navrac_play> I'm fed up with domino, it makes a horrible noise, and its difficult to keep it stable all the time through shifting supply voltages and to a certain extent temperatures
[14:30] <UpuWork> I wouldn't use an iphone
[14:30] <fsphil> that was basically our conclusion too Navrac_play
[14:30] <UpuWork> there are some cheapo chinese jobbies on dx.com
[14:30] <UpuWork> Bill Brown manages to make it work
[14:31] <UpuWork> but yes thats the conclusion we came too
[14:31] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Ah ok I'll have a look now
[14:31] <UpuWork> but primary should be the radio
[14:31] <UpuWork> in the UK anyway
[14:31] <UpuWork> where are you ?
[14:31] <UpuWork> ask away dsjohn
[14:31] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Gloucestershire, UK
[14:31] <UpuWork> yeah radio all the way
[14:31] <Navrac_play> well it works well enough - but you need to use a seperate xtal. Pulling the one on the rfm board means its too sensitive to supply variations
[14:31] <dsjohn> i can print serial data straight to the pc, but if i wanted send to receiver should i to convert the variable (e.g.temp) to string
[14:32] <UpuWork> dsjohn you basically get all your data and put it into a string which you then transmit
[14:32] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Yeah I have built the radio, just want a backup
[14:32] <UpuWork> Personally I use sprintf
[14:32] <fsphil> use snprintf
[14:32] <dsjohn> i was on that page and set up my arduino in that way, and can get the output
[14:33] <dsjohn> ok so sprintf
[14:33] <dsjohn> then insert a temp variable
[14:33] <UpuWork> or snprintf
[14:33] <UpuWork> as fsphil says
[14:34] <UpuWork> have a good read of this (both dsjohn & STRATODEAN_Mark )
[14:34] <UpuWork> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
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[14:35] <dsjohn> oh cheers
[14:35] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Will do
[14:36] <fsphil> programming is a dark twisty maze, there are many traps :)
[14:37] <UpuWork> Yeah lets put it this way I wasn't exactly Indiana Jones
[14:37] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Does anyone know of anyone from the Gloucestershire region who gets involved with the tracking?
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[14:38] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Or am i going to need a Yagi to make sure I can do it all myself from the chase car?
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[14:39] <UpuWork> just get a Diamond MR77 Magmount
[14:39] <fsphil> a yagi is a last resort
[14:40] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Ah really ok
[14:42] <cuddykid> STRATODEAN_Mark: I launch from worcester area - so does WillDuckworth :)
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[14:42] <cuddykid> STRATODEAN_Mark: more than welcome to pop along to one of my launches - hope to do the next one sometime in feb
[14:44] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Yeah talking about antennas from the payload - I have seen, read about, and started to test a whip antenna that is just homemade using some coax and some straws. 17cm long. The core hangs down and then the braiding is split into 4 quarters and supported using the straws. My question is - is 17cm the length of exposed core - or the length of the antenna in total? - ie 17cm of core and
[14:44] <STRATODEAN_Mark> then about 20cm of untouched coax back to the tracker
[14:44] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Ah ok thanks cuddykid
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[14:45] <cuddykid> STRATODEAN_Mark: ~17cm of exposed core
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[14:45] <cuddykid> so each radial ~17cm - and then preferably a short length of coax back to the radio
[14:46] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Ah great thats what I have.
[14:46] <dsjohn> i wanted to know what circuit t connect this board to my arduino http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[14:46] <UpuWork> Is it a 5V Arduino ?
[14:47] <fsphil> how'd you find making that STRATODEAN_Mark? splitting the braid into four parts takes me ages
[14:47] <dsjohn> yep, has 3.3v and 5v
[14:47] <UpuWork> dsjohn if its a 5V Arduino you need this : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[14:47] <UpuWork> Which model is it ?
[14:47] <UpuWork> Uno ?
[14:47] <dsjohn> i ordered the other one already
[14:48] <dsjohn> uno r3
[14:48] <UpuWork> You got the wrong one thats a 5V Logic
[14:48] <UpuWork> no worries
[14:48] <dsjohn> has 3.3v and 5v
[14:48] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Yeah I had two attempts at it. Really takes a long time. I found having a pointy bradle really helpful
[14:48] <UpuWork> Just send it back and I'll refund
[14:48] <UpuWork> it has but the logic is 5V
[14:48] <UpuWork> and the 3.3V doesn't have enough milliamps to power the GPS
[14:49] <dsjohn> can i just use the http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
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[14:49] <UpuWork> you can if you put some level conversion circuits on it
[14:49] <dsjohn> not a 3.3v regualtor
[14:49] <dsjohn> then connect to 5v power
[14:50] <UpuWork> if you plug that into the Uno you are likely to damage it
[14:50] <UpuWork> see the PM I just send you
[15:09] <STRATODEAN_Mark> Where would someone buy an MR77 from, not includinging ebay as there is only one in Taiwan on there
[15:09] <STRATODEAN_Mark> ?
[15:09] <UpuWork> www.radioworld.co.uk
[15:09] <UpuWork> www.hamradio.co.uk
[15:09] <UpuWork> afk
[15:10] <STRATODEAN_Mark> thanks
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[15:17] <fsphil> CPC sell a cheap vertical too
[15:17] <fsphil> too late
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[15:30] <cuddykid> is there any "test" map linked in to habitat? so - rather than my uploaded data getting shown on spacenear tracker map it gets shown on another test map
[15:31] <daveake> Don't believe so, but that is the plan
[15:32] <daveake> So anything not part of a current flight would go to a test map
[15:32] <cuddykid> good stuff
[15:32] <cuddykid> yep, currently my "test_chase" is driving around cupertino
[15:33] <daveake> UAV? Impressive :)
[15:33] <daveake> So long as you don't test during a real flight, no-one cares
[15:33] <cuddykid> ha, feeding gps data into the iOS simulator
[15:33] <cuddykid> yeah
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[15:34] <daveake> How's your "fly on my HAB" project going?
[15:34] <Majed> hi everyone
[15:34] <Majed> Costyn: hi
[15:34] <costyn> Majed: hello
[15:35] <Majed> you are not going to believe this
[15:35] <cuddykid> daveake: got 4 primary schools involved so far - and a few individuals registered their interest.. trying to reach out to more schools through the uni
[15:35] <daveake> good stuff
[15:35] <Majed> do you rememeber the huge helium tank i rented!
[15:36] <dsjohn> when i use snprintf to turn my sensor to string, i cannot get it to rtty,
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[15:36] <daveake> dsjohn upload your code to pastebin or somewhere and link us
[15:36] <Majed> costyn: do you rememeber the huge helium tank i rented!
[15:37] <dsjohn> ok
[15:37] <costyn> Majed: sure
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[15:37] <Majed> it did not have neough helium to fill up 1200g balloon
[15:37] <daveake> Not very huge then
[15:38] <Majed> it went out of helium half way through the inflation and we had to deflate and get another tank
[15:38] <costyn> Majed: woa
[15:38] <costyn> Majed: so it had very little pressure iin it?
[15:38] <Majed> costyn: i know
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[15:39] <Majed> costyn: yes
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[15:39] <costyn> daveake: it sure was huge on the pic. they must've given it to him almost empty
[15:39] <Majed> costyn: exactly
[15:39] <daveake> yup
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[15:39] <dsjohn> http://pastebin.com/dWttxqhB
[15:39] <costyn> Majed: well that sucks... so did you launch?
[15:40] <Majed> costyn: no we did not
[15:40] <Majed> costyn: we had to deflate and go back home because there is no way we could get additional helium at that time
[15:40] <dsjohn> i want to output temp value on the dl-fldigi
[15:40] <costyn> Majed: ouch... what did the guy who sold you the bottle say?
[15:41] <Majed> costyn: did not get in touch with him yet because today is the end of the week here
[15:42] <Majed> they are off
[15:42] <costyn> Majed: ok, you tried to launch today then?
[15:42] <Majed> yes
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[15:42] <daveake> dsjohn snprintf(datastring, 800, "%i", temperature); isn't doing anything useful
[15:42] <costyn> Majed: damn sorry to hear that
[15:43] <Majed> costyn: what is the difference between nozzile lift and free lift?
[15:43] <dsjohn> i have short temperature, should i use another function
[15:44] <Majed> costyn: sorry, i meant to say gross lift and nozzile lift
[15:44] <daveake> No, my point is that you're putting something into datastring and then not using it
[15:44] <costyn> Majed: not sure... daveake ?
[15:44] <daveake> Nozzle/neck lift = how much the balloon can lift to a neutral balance
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[15:44] <daveake> Free lift = neck lift minus payload/string/chute weight
[15:45] <costyn> what about gross lift?
[15:45] <daveake> Oh yeah
[15:45] <daveake> dunno
[15:45] <fsphil> sounds like free lift
[15:46] <Majed> daveake: i was looking at the balloon data table on here http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data and came across "gross lift" which left me confused
[15:46] <fsphil> "The Balloon Gross Lift is the lift generated by the volume of Gas"
[15:46] <dsjohn> daveake, did i correctly put the temp variable into the datastring
[15:46] <dsjohn> or insert
[15:46] <costyn> fsphil: so free-lift minus the weight of the baloon?
[15:47] <fsphil> "Subtract the Balloon Weight plus the Payload weight form the Gross Lift to give the free lift."
[15:47] <daveake> dsjohn You didn't USE datastring
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[15:47] <costyn> fsphil: thanks, makes sense
[15:47] <daveake> It's the last thing in your loop (aside from the (not needed) delay)
[15:47] <costyn> Majed: got it?
[15:47] <fsphil> quoting from here btw, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[15:48] <costyn> heh
[15:48] <Majed> and how much free lift is recommended for a 2312g payload target altitude 30k
[15:48] <fsphil> there's a calculator for that
[15:48] <Majed> costyn: yes
[15:48] <fsphil> Majed: http://habhub.org/calc/
[15:48] <fsphil> seen that?
[15:48] <daveake> Yeah just play with that
[15:48] <Majed> fsphil: i know, just making sure i have the right numbers
[15:48] <daveake> Keep ascent rate around 5m/s
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[15:49] <dsjohn> you said i put something in datastring and im not using it, how should i use it
[15:50] <daveake> transmite it. That's the idea isn't it?
[15:50] <daveake> -e
[15:50] <dsjohn> rtty_txstring (datastring);, does this not transmit it
[15:51] <daveake> Well what does your comment say?
[15:51] <daveake> The general idea in coding is that things are done in a certain order. Like build a string then transmit it.
[15:52] <Majed> daveake: keeping ascent rate @ 5 m/s with a target altitude of 30k means time to burst is 30,000/5 = 6000 seconds hence 6000/60 = 100 minutes right?
[15:52] <daveake> Yeah sounds about right
[15:53] <Majed> free lift stays the same regardless of the payload weight? is that right?
[15:53] <fsphil> neck lift stays the same
[15:53] <daveake> No, "free" it's what's left over *after* yaking your payload weight into account
[15:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
[15:54] <daveake> But let the calculator sort that out
[15:54] <Majed> fsphil: are u sure?
[15:54] <daveake> What you need from it is the ascent rate and burst alt so you can do the prediction, neck lift to measure when filling, and gas volume so you buy enough gas :)
[15:55] <fsphil> yes
[15:55] <fsphil> the neck lift is the gross lift - weight of balloon
[15:56] <Majed> fsphil: oh come on. neck lift is not gross lift
[15:56] <fsphil> that's what I just said
[15:56] <costyn> - = minus :)
[15:57] <daveake> Gross = mass of air displaced by balloon
[15:57] <Majed> ahh ok
[15:57] <fsphil> neck lift is the weight of the ballon subtracted from the gross lift :)
[15:57] <daveake> Neck = Gross minus weight of balloon
[15:57] <Majed> got it.
[15:57] <fsphil> might be a better way to say it
[15:57] <daveake> Free =Neck minus payload (and chute etc)
[15:57] <daveake> Sorted
[15:57] <Majed> fsphil: what is the recommended free lift for a 2312g payload ?
[15:58] <daveake> One that gives 5m/s ascent :)
[15:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
[15:58] <daveake> It will depend on the balloon size
[15:58] <fsphil> yea 5m/s is the usual ascent rate
[15:58] <Majed> daveake: very well said
[15:58] <fsphil> any faster uses too much gas, any less risks it floating
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[15:59] <Majed> got it guys.. many thanks
[15:59] <daveake> :)
[15:59] <Majed> daveake: :)
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[16:00] <Majed> I am so disappointed the helium tank did not have enough to fill today
[16:00] <Majed> will go the guy who sold me the tank and show him my shotgun
[16:00] <Majed> maybe they can figure it out
[16:00] <Majed> :0
[16:01] <costyn> Majed: haha
[16:01] <costyn> Majed: hope he acknowledges it was their mistake
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[16:02] <Majed> costyn: is it possible the tank lost a lot of gas since i rented it? have read about helium molecules are very small and can escape easily
[16:02] <costyn> Majed: no, you only got it a few weeks ago right?
[16:02] <Majed> yes
[16:03] <Majed> right
[16:03] <costyn> any leakage would've been too little to notice
[16:03] <Majed> disappointing
[16:03] <kokey> my party balloon tank from ASDA held pretty long between use
[16:03] <fsphil> I've had a tank for months without any obvious loss
[16:03] <Majed> my tank should have at least 2000 psi in it
[16:03] <kokey> there was still enough left to make my voice sound funny
[16:04] <costyn> Majed: unless the valve wasn't shut properly, but that would be unusual
[16:04] <fsphil> sure it was the helium?
[16:04] <kokey> darn, that is the sad thing about the helium shortage, no more funny voice
[16:04] <costyn> kokey: there's heavier than air gasses to give you low voices :)
[16:04] <fsphil> helium doesn't seem to work on me
[16:05] <Majed> costyn: the valve was securely shut off
[16:05] <Majed> 100% certain
[16:06] <costyn> Majed: hope you get it sorted with your supplier, that he finds out he made a mistake in his administration and gave you an empty bottle
[16:06] <costyn> Majed: otherwise it's his word against yours
[16:06] <costyn> Majed: I need to go, good luck!
[16:06] <Randomskk> costyn: somewhat more dangerous ;)
[16:06] <Randomskk> the whole "they sit in your lungs without leaving of their own accord" bit
[16:07] <fsphil> handstand
[16:07] <Randomskk> yup!
[16:07] <fsphil> which would be tricky while asphyxiating
[16:09] <daveake> dsjohn: http://pastebin.com/L9YhWJUm
[16:09] <daveake> My effort to explain what's wrong
[16:09] <Majed> costyn: thanks
[16:11] <daveake> dsjohn: #1 rtty_txbit(bmp085GetTemperature(bmp085ReadUT())); isn't doing what you intended
[16:11] <daveake> #2 You're filling "datastring" twice but onl;y transmitting once
[16:12] <daveake> #3 Not sure what that 800 is there for. No point using snprintf if you give it a huge number not the actual size of the array
[16:12] <fsphil> daveake: he timed out
[16:12] <daveake> oh, oops :p
[16:12] <daveake> Ah well, code shit please learn to code rather than copying
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[16:41] <cuddykid> been out testing the iPhone app - works well :)
[16:41] <cuddykid> http://pic.twitter.com/RjrOrN8l
[16:41] <cuddykid> basic but I'll add to it when I get time
[16:41] <daveake> Yeah saw your tweet. Didn't take you long!
[16:42] <cuddykid> only started learning objective-c last week :P
[16:48] <mattbrejza> i thought there was already a iphone chasecar app? or is it not habitat ready?
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[16:49] <daveake> There is and it is I'm sure
[16:52] <cuddykid> mattbrejza: there is a very old one (not habitat ready) and only available through cydia
[16:52] <cuddykid> I'll submit this to the app store this evening probably
[16:53] <mattbrejza> lol doesnt effect me, android ftw
[16:53] <daveake> :)
[16:53] <mattbrejza> but now its all complete for everyone
[16:53] <daveake> Ditto, got shiny new nexus 4 here :)
[16:53] <mattbrejza> might even be a windows phone one
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[16:55] <fsphil> the nexus 7 3g is still sold out
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[16:56] <fsphil> as are all the 4's
[16:56] <fsphil> it's like the raspberry pi all over again
[16:56] <fsphil> except more expensive
[16:57] <kokey> so my girlfriend's laptop went poof recently
[16:57] <kokey> so in a hurry, we bought her an asus netbook
[16:57] <kokey> anyway, it is pretty slow
[16:57] <kokey> turns out it has only 1GB of ram
[16:57] <kokey> not only that, it's soldered into the board
[16:58] <kokey> so this xmas I figured I'll install an SSD into it
[16:58] <kokey> and I don't care about SSD life, I'll set up a big pagefile on it
[16:58] <kokey> but it hasn't really helped performance much at all
[16:59] <fsphil> my old eeepc 900 cam ewith two SSDs, one onboard and another in the mini PCI slot
[16:59] <fsphil> but the PCI one is very slow
[16:59] <fsphil> swapped it for a faster and bigger one and it's pretty useable, apart from the battery
[17:00] <fsphil> the tiny keyboard is annoying too
[17:00] <fsphil> the screen is lovely though
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[17:04] <kokey> this is the 1015bx
[17:04] <kokey> I find the keyboard pretty good
[17:04] <kokey> screen resolution not great tho
[17:05] <fsphil> I'm not sure what I'd replace this old thinkpad with if it broke
[17:05] <kokey> I'm thinking of getting my girlfriend a 'normal' laptop and keeping the netbook as something to go out and about with
[17:05] <fsphil> I've dragged this laptop everywhere :)
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[17:06] <kokey> i'm going to try ubuntu on the asus 1015bx and see how that goes
[17:06] <kokey> perhaps it will work better than windows 7 home basic
[17:06] <fsphil> yea the linux distro my eeepc came with was pretty poor
[17:06] <kokey> at least with linux I can tune how it uses swap on the SSD
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[17:07] <kokey> ok I'm about to leave this office for good
[17:08] <kokey> I always have this weird feeling that I've forgotten something before leaving the office for the last time
[17:12] Action: arko yawns
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[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> did someone of you assist in the royal institution christmas lecture of today? :)
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> they had a box floating down on a black balloon
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[17:30] <fsphil> I don't think they'll need much help tracking that
[17:31] <fsphil> the last one was pretty good. enought explositions to keep even michael bay happy
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I meant the episode about "Water"
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> or do you mean the episode "Air"
[17:32] <fsphil> nah it was the water one
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:32] <fsphil> they did a nice H2+O explosion at the end
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> I was quite interested in the OxyReduct thing
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> can you really live well in a house with 15% O2?
[17:33] <fsphil> can't say I've tried
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> but it was funny how he couldn't use lighters
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> and poor sausage man!
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> good that wee just have 21% O2
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[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> here http://www.wagner-uk.com/products/oxyreduct1/operating-principle/access-to-the-protected-areas/
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[17:43] <mrShrimp> Hello, can someone help me troubleshoot this data I've been recieving from my GPS/transmitter setup?
[17:44] <daveake> go on
[17:44] <mrShrimp> http://pastebin.com/RgRZ8QsN
[17:44] <mrShrimp> This is the code I am having trouble with.
[17:45] <mrShrimp> I used Robert Harrison's code from the NTX2 & Arduino tutorial
[17:45] <mrShrimp> but for some reason this doesn't work
[17:46] <daveake> What's it doing?
[17:46] <mrShrimp> Here is a png
[17:46] <mrShrimp> http://filebin.ca/RabVAHNkyhZ
[17:46] <mrShrimp> of fldigi recieving the code
[17:47] <mrShrimp> and here is an mp3 of that wierd looking signal
[17:47] <mrShrimp> http://filebin.ca/RabfmR229Ov
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[17:47] <mrShrimp> Normally it is continous, but it halts for some reason with this code
[17:48] <daveake> What GPS?
[17:48] <mrShrimp> Trimble CopernicusII
[17:49] <daveake> ok
[17:49] <mrShrimp> When I transmit a fixed packet using the code from the tutorial it works, so the circuit isn't the problem.
[17:49] <daveake> and is it decoding at all?
[17:49] <mrShrimp> A bit
[17:49] <daveake> meaning/
[17:49] <daveake> ?
[17:50] <mrShrimp> it transmits haltingly
[17:50] <mrShrimp> um
[17:50] <mrShrimp> when I transmitted a fixed packet
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[17:50] <daveake> ok, so a few chars then delays then a few more chars?
[17:50] <mrShrimp> keeping the same code in the pastebin
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[17:50] <mrShrimp> the packet was "Testing Testing ABC"
[17:50] <bertrik> maybe the "data" buffer in send_data is too small
[17:50] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Around ?
[17:50] <mrShrimp> and it would normally pop out as "Te#%@s
[17:51] <mrShrimp> well
[17:51] <mrShrimp> here is some true data I received
[17:51] <mrShrimp> L|zngABDEF yin@wgABx^~zing t.^~hi~g 8cetxng T}@sting xa@DE~ZjY;^
[17:51] <daveake> Buffer is 60 chars should be fine
[17:51] <mrShrimp> true as in it came out of fl-digi
[17:51] <mrShrimp> when I ran "Testing Testing ABC"
[17:52] <mrShrimp> you can see that it picks up parts of it, but most of the signal is false
[17:52] <Upu> here Gadget-Mac
[17:53] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: pm ?
[17:53] <mrShrimp> Any idea what is happening?
[17:54] <daveake> When you did the "Testing.." bit, did that work?
[17:54] <mrShrimp> Did it work how?
[17:55] <mrShrimp> It transmitted from the device fine, but the received data, as you can see above, was not fine.
[17:55] <daveake> OK so you've never had the received data work fully?
[17:55] <mrShrimp> Not with this script, no.
[17:56] <daveake> With some other script?
[17:56] <mrShrimp> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[17:56] <mrShrimp> with this one it works like a charm
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[17:56] <mrShrimp> and all I did was copy and paste :p
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[17:58] <daveake> OK, try without the software serial. That will mean commenting out ss.begin(4800);
[17:58] <daveake> and also the bit where you wait for a GPS position
[17:58] <daveake> and replace the sprintf with sprintf(data, "This is a test\n") or something
[17:58] <daveake> then try that
[17:59] <mrShrimp> So, just get rid of all the gps stuff?
[17:59] <daveake> Yes
[17:59] <mrShrimp> ok
[17:59] <daveake> I'm wondering of the softwareserial is messing up the delay timing
[17:59] <daveake> if
[17:59] <daveake> back later - have to go cook
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[18:09] <mrShrimp> The problem might have actually been that sprintf
[18:09] <mrShrimp> like arko was saying
[18:10] <mrShrimp> I tried it without the ss, but it stopped working entirely
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[18:11] <arko> wait
[18:11] <mrShrimp> That might have been another problem, but now when I take out the sprintf it works
[18:11] <arko> did you try just doing
[18:11] <arko> char data[] = "test"
[18:11] <mrShrimp> yes
[18:11] <arko> does it that work?
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[18:11] <arko> thus proving hardware works
[18:11] <mrShrimp> I did that with the sprintf in and it didn't work
[18:11] <mrShrimp> without the sprintf in, it does work
[18:11] <arko> ok so hardware is fine
[18:11] <arko> i think it's sprintf
[18:12] <mrShrimp> but that is also in the tutorial
[18:12] <mrShrimp> and when I print the string to the monitor, it is correct
[18:12] <mrShrimp> This is puzzling to me
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[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello arko!
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello radim_OM2AMR
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[18:50] <mrShrimp> When I take away all three of the sprintf lines it doesn't work
[18:51] <mrShrimp> but when I uncomment two it goes back to the broken data thing
[18:51] <arko> mrShrimp: you mean through the serial monitor?
[18:51] <radim_OM2AMR> evening Lunar :-)
[18:51] <arko> sup lunar
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[18:51] <mrShrimp> I'm just testing by looking at what comes through fldigi
[18:52] <mrShrimp> I have to go now though, so more testing will have to wait.
[18:52] <arko> "<mrShrimp> and when I print the string to the monitor, it is correct"
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[18:52] <mrShrimp> oh
[18:52] <arko> is that over the usb serial monitor?
[18:52] <mrShrimp> yes
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[18:52] <mrShrimp> that is what I meant
[18:52] <arko> hmm
[18:53] <arko> so you do sprintf then serial print to the serial montior
[18:53] <arko> and it works?
[18:54] <mrShrimp> yes
[18:54] <arko> hmm
[18:54] <mrShrimp> but when I send it with the tutorial code
[18:54] <mrShrimp> it doesn't work
[18:54] <arko> im confused
[18:54] <mrShrimp> same haha
[18:55] <arko> i just dont get what code is running where
[18:55] <arko> ok, so we know that the hardware is ok
[18:55] <arko> based on the data[] = "test"
[18:55] <arko> you pass the pointer to data to sprintf
[18:55] <arko> sprintf does it's thing
[18:56] <arko> if you serial print it, it looks good?
[18:56] <arko> the result from sprintf
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, how was christmsa?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> *christmas
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[18:58] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, good, thanks, and yours ? Mine with STS-2 preparations :-)
[18:58] <mrShrimp> it does look good when I print it to the serial monitor
[18:58] <daveake> arko/mrShrimp I highly doubt that sprintf is the problem
[18:58] <mrShrimp> but when I took out all of the software serial stuff and the sprintf lines it works fine
[18:59] <mrShrimp> with the test packet
[18:59] <daveake> Much more likely to be dodgy timing in the rtty
[18:59] <daveake> mrShrimp> but when I took out all of the software serial stuf
[18:59] <daveake> there you go
[18:59] <mrShrimp> I'll have to do more conclusive tests later
[18:59] <mrShrimp> I'm catching a plane in an hour though, so I have to go now.
[19:00] <mrShrimp> Thanks for all your help!
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[19:01] <arko> hmm
[19:01] <arko> daveake: you think the software serial stuff was screwing with the timing
[19:01] <arko> ?
[19:01] <daveake> yes
[19:02] <arko> that would make sense
[19:02] <daveake> He printf'd the string to USB, and it was OK
[19:02] <arko> yeah
[19:02] <arko> that proves the sprintf works
[19:02] <daveake> There's no code in there that can change the string afterwards (unless I missed it)
[19:02] <arko> right
[19:02] <daveake> Yet rtty is screwed
[19:02] <arko> timing
[19:02] <daveake> Yup
[19:03] <arko> :)
[19:03] <arko> makes sense
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, mine was good too
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> ordered myself the Blackadder DVD box from the BBC :)
[19:04] <radim_OM2AMR> :-)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, and my cutdown seems to work as well
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> now I power it with three ultimate lithiums
[19:05] <radim_OM2AMR> oh, great, NiCr wire ?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> but I also got some Kanthal now, 19.7 Ohms/m
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> will test that too
[19:06] <fsphil> why not just use nichrome? it works
[19:06] <radim_OM2AMR> I'm fighting with PT100 now :-(
[19:06] <fsphil> is it resisting?
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yea but I want to try the other one too to see the properties of it
[19:07] <radim_OM2AMR> fsphill, yes :-D about 100 Ohms :-D
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> what is it btw?
[19:08] <arko> http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/dec/28/bbc-sherlock-top-show-2012
[19:08] <arko> i couldn't agree more
[19:09] <arko> woops wrong channel
[19:09] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar - PT100 ? Platinum temperature sensor, -200 to +850 C :-)
[19:10] <daveake> arko I agree :)
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[19:11] <arko> that show is so damn good
[19:11] <daveake> yup. definitely best thing on tv
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:11] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, for me it's -80 C as lower limit enough
[19:11] <arko> i bought the little magnifying glass sherlock uses
[19:12] <arko> it's so damn useful
[19:12] <daveake> :)
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> on the Top Gear LX crash, why did they print "Sir Robert Markson" on the screen when Jeremy Clarkson was on?
[19:12] <arko> you can get a better look at circuits, etc
[19:12] <fsphil> they need to make more episodes
[19:12] <arko> ^^^^^
[19:12] <arko> agreed
[19:12] <fsphil> although not if the quality suffered
[19:12] <daveake> indeed
[19:13] <fsphil> I liked the sherlock parody on doctor who
[19:14] <daveake> oh yeah :)
[19:14] <daveake> same writer
[19:14] <arko> no way!
[19:14] <arko> damn i need to see that
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[19:14] <arko> british are good at stopping when it's sweet
[19:15] <arko> i think this next season maybe the last
[19:15] <arko> the only sherlock episode i thought was "ok" was the HOUND episode
[19:16] <fsphil> some shows do seem to go on a bit longer than they should
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> can someone explain my question?
[19:17] <arko> fsphil: which episode was that?
[19:18] <fsphil> the parody? was in the last christmas special
[19:18] <arko> ah crap
[19:18] <arko> i missed that
[19:18] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv6Tivmox_M
[19:18] <arko> this last one was sooo good
[19:18] <arko> the new companion
[19:18] <arko> <3
[19:18] <arko> she's too cute
[19:18] <fsphil> loving the new tardis too
[19:19] <fsphil> not convinced on the new titles
[19:19] <arko> wait what
[19:19] <arko> OMG
[19:19] <arko> derp
[19:19] <arko> i can't believe i forgot about that
[19:19] <arko> i saw that
[19:19] <daveake> LL: google Robert Mark
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:19] <arko> i loved her line: "it's smaller on the outside"
[19:19] <arko> brilliant
[19:20] <fsphil> the bad guy in that unofficially played the Doctor once
[19:20] <arko> oh really?
[19:20] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM
[19:23] <arko> hahaa
[19:24] <arko> i secretly wish Rowan was a doctor for a seasons
[19:24] <arko> season*
[19:24] <arko> just for lulz
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[19:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[19:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> When i update fldigi, does it keep my settings or do i need to backup something?
[19:37] <fsphil> it'll keep the settings
[19:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fb, ill give it a try then
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi lunar
[19:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yep settings all the same, good
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> arko, you mean Rowan Atkinson?
[19:47] <arko> yes
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD https://xkcd.com/1133/
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[20:26] <cuddykid> splashcreen for the iPhone app http://i.imgur.com/3JQJL.png
[20:29] <daveake> need a boat version :p
[20:29] <daveake> SPLASHscreen
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[20:33] <cuddykid> :D
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> http://www.steorn.com/heating/
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
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[20:42] <SpeedEvil> why does it confuse?
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> it's just a means of minimising peak energy use
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> and indeed using economy 7
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, still here?
[20:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> did you see this already?
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/12/crazy-xmas-capsule-configuration-no-main-parachutes-on-board/
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[20:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> can´t say i have
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> I think it is dangerous
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[22:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn all
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[23:00] <cuddykid> submitted to the app store :)
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:06] <fsphil> I've always questioned the idea of an app store. if you made a very expensive app, what's to say apple won't reject it
[23:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Trevor Cousins "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Predictor update"
[23:08] <DanielRichman> ...
[23:08] <fsphil> close enough
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[23:36] <Laurenceb_> lol @ reply
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 29 2012