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[04:45] <arko> sup eroomde
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[05:19] <arko> eroomde: http://www.esquire.com/print-this/tom-rivellini-curiosity-interview-1212?page=all
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[06:54] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
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[09:40] <UpuWork> ping jarod
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[10:01] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
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[12:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
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[12:46] <fsphil> ipv7?
[12:46] <fsphil> I only just got ipv6 :p
[12:46] <zyp> ipv6 too old, nobody uses that anymore
[12:46] <Laurenceb> ipv9000
[12:46] <zyp> +is
[12:50] <costyn> Laurenceb: not quite over 9000 then?
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[14:11] <DrLuke> yeah
[14:11] <DrLuke> it's the future
[14:11] <DrLuke> but not that much future
[14:11] <DrLuke> so it's just 9000
[14:12] <joph> every electron in the universe will get his own adress! :D
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[14:20] <nosebleedkt_> pffff so bored at work
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[14:44] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
[14:45] <Navrac_Work> yep I'm bored silly here today too. I think I might play a game of measure the lowest voltage an 8mhz crystal will run at on an atmel at various temperatures.
[14:46] <fsphil> see if you can run an avr with the internal 128khz clock, divided by 256
[14:49] <daveake> "run"?
[14:50] <fsphil> good point
[14:52] <UpuWork> I tried internal with the /8 set last night
[14:52] <UpuWork> didn't work
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[14:58] <Navrac_Work> I wonder if I can get a party gas cylinder ordered and delivered before xmas so I can do a quick boxing day pico launch
[14:59] <Navrac_Work> I've got lots of bits of butchered experimental payloads here I could stitch together to make soemthing
[15:01] <fsphil> another armada? :) I might be able to do one from here too
[15:02] <fsphil> got the bits, dunno about time
[15:08] <Navrac_Work> I must admit work seems to be slowing down - all i have today is conference calls booked so i can solder and talk at the same time
[15:08] <kokey> Navrac_Work: I got some from ASDA's delivery before, not sure if they still have them
[15:08] <Navrac_Work> it looks like its going to be a solar powered domino conference badge payload at 3v
[15:08] <kokey> you have a good headset?
[15:09] <fsphil> gopro hero 2 teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nsYd3lG60
[15:09] <Navrac_Work> yep, somewhere under the bench in the box of rubbish
[15:09] <kokey> I've quit my day job so will be working from home in january on my other job
[15:10] <kokey> so having only one job I should have enough free time to rebuild my payload to be flight ready
[15:10] <kokey> or at least order enough stuff to complete the job when I get to cape town in february
[15:14] <Navrac_Work> hmm - now I've got to play the 'since all these diodes are out their farnell packets, which strip is the varicap ones as opposed to the zeners and schottkys and general purpose ones - they all look exactly the same
[15:14] <Navrac_Work> ' game
[15:14] <daveake> That's a pain
[15:15] <daveake> ... a terrible pain ...
[15:15] <daveake> ... in all the diodes down you left side.
[15:15] <daveake> +r
[15:17] <kokey> I don't even have time to make silly arduino controlled flashing LEDs for xmas
[15:18] <Navrac_Work> I'm going to strap a varicap straight onto the rfm22's existing crystal and just feed it via an inductor of some sort - like one of the ones left over from a step up psu board
[15:20] <Navrac_Work> in fact to make it more interesting I'm going to force myself to only used previously used parts ( ok that helping as I know which boards have varicaps on them)
[15:22] <gonzo___> about 40,000 smd LEDs have appeared in the work's WEE bin. Really trying to think of something to use tthem for!
[15:23] <fsphil> that's enough to make a nice big display
[15:25] <gonzo___> fill a whole wall with them
[15:26] <gonzo___> take a ling time to hand solder
[15:26] <fsphil> LED roof
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[15:28] <gonzo___> rude messages to the police helicopter
[15:29] <fsphil> "You are here >O"
[15:29] <daveake> "Stop here please Santa"
[15:29] <gonzo___> The Comic Strip Presents
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[15:29] <fsphil> "hacked by fsphil"
[15:29] <gonzo___> (though that was shaftsbury, about 30 miles from here
[15:30] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:297b:773:d6af:23fe) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[15:30] <fsphil> (H)
[15:30] <fsphil> actually no
[15:30] Nick change: UPu2 -> Upu
[15:30] <fsphil> that one would end badly
[15:30] <daveake> For launch days ... "You forgot to check the NOTAMs"
[15:31] <gonzo___> 'Turn that bloody fan off!'
[15:32] <fsphil> "Hi CIA"
[15:32] <gonzo___> 'Google Earth Sucks'
[15:32] <fsphil> "Bing"
[15:33] <fsphil> "Society Against Light Pollution Headquarters"
[15:33] <gonzo___> (c) image, rioyalty = £1M
[15:33] <fsphil> or just a (c) -- claim copyright of the entire earth
[15:34] <gonzo___> best stop this thread, otherwise it will end up happening!
[15:35] <Navrac_Work> I'm still trying to get a patent on the earth.
[15:35] <fsphil> if they're red LEDs, make an illuminated santa outfit
[15:37] <x-f> Navrac_Work, i don't think you're gonna get it - it may come as a surprise, but we may not be real - http://news.techeye.net/science/scientists-plan-test-to-see-if-the-entire-universe-is-a-simulation-created-by-futuristic-supercomputers
[15:41] <Navrac_Work> I thought I had'nt got much to do at work today.- Those guys have far too much time on their hands
[15:42] <daveake> Well one thing's for sure - if it was me running he simulation then I'd have arranged for me to have more spare time than I do
[15:42] <Navrac_Work> I'd put loads of delay() lines in the code to try to keep up
[15:44] <Navrac_Work> and i'd make electrons bigger so surfaced mount stuff wouldn't need a microscope to solder
[15:45] <fsphil> I would add a workaround for the speed of light
[15:45] <Navrac_Work> all leads muct be>0.5mm otherwise current cant flow
[15:45] <fsphil> like an arcade game ... "up up down right down left fire"
[15:47] <daveake> I'd make sure that DM gives me priority for notams
[15:47] <daveake> Damn, given it away ...
[15:47] <Navrac_Work> maybe thats why light slows down when it passes thru things? more processing power required - whilst in a vacuum its fast as you only need to define the start point and angle and ignore everything else
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[15:48] <Navrac_Work> maybe the SOL will increase if we get a processor upgrade
[15:48] <daveake> ^^ I read that as "Maxwell has quit "
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[15:49] <Navrac_Work> so did I!
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[16:37] <nigelvh> Morning all!
[16:37] <mfa298> Afternoon
[16:37] <nigelvh> How's things over there?
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[16:39] <mfa298> Typical England mostly. Moderately decent weather and lots of panic before Christmas
[16:40] <nigelvh> Makes sense. Snowed a bit overnight here. So that makes me happy. Also got my new boards last night, so that also makes me happy. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMG_0373.jpg
[16:41] <KT5TK> Nice boards nigelvh! I like the stars next to the LED
[16:42] <nigelvh> Yeah, they came out pretty well, considering how small they are.
[16:42] <mfa298> looks impressive, one of these days my experimenting will progress from breadboard to something that can fly.
[16:43] <nigelvh> I spent a few hours last night soldering. Got everything but the PA and the RF Sense sections done. Boost converter works like a dream, uC is running, 3.3V reg, VCXO, and PLL, so hopefully it will be done tonight.
[16:44] <KT5TK> With all the 0603 Rs and Cs around the ADF7012 there's not much space left...
[16:44] <KT5TK> What frequency are you running on?
[16:44] <nigelvh> Not a lot, no. This revision adds quite a few R's around it, as the IO needs to be at 3.3V, but the uC is at 5, so I added a bunch of resistor dividers.
[16:45] <nigelvh> Frequency of the ADF, or frequency of the ATmega?
[16:45] <KT5TK> ATmega at 5V/16 MHz?
[16:45] <nigelvh> Yeah
[16:45] <KT5TK> and ADF on 2m
[16:46] <nigelvh> Yep
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[16:46] <nigelvh> I divide down the clock just before sleeping, so that saves a good bit of power, then it clocks back up to 16 for the processing.
[16:47] <KT5TK> Do you have a link to the schematic?
[16:47] <nigelvh> Just a second.
[16:48] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Iris_V1_1_SCH.png
[16:49] <nigelvh> As a note, the schematic says the boost is the TPS61200, but I have the TPS61202
[16:51] <KT5TK> Tnx. I have improved the values for the audio filter for a better (symmetrical) shape of the two tones.
[16:51] <KT5TK> You may put a small parallel cap to R 12
[16:52] <nigelvh> I will keep that in mind. I don't recall having issues with that, but I'll look again. Though, I'm not using the PWM (Trackuino) method, which may have some effect.
[16:52] <KT5TK> Like here: http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/downloads/PecanPico/hardware/PecanPicoSch.pdf
[16:53] <Upu> hey KT5TK did you get chance to upload those Spice simulations ?
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[17:00] <nigelvh> Looks like you scared him away Upu
[17:00] <Upu> aye :)
[17:01] <nigelvh> BTW, how's the price of a ublox setup coming these days? Say the chip, and the external components, not including the board?
[17:03] <nigelvh> (I ask rather than taking time to research it, as I figure you might know offhand)
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[17:07] <Upu> not alot
[17:07] <Upu> about $20 from my shop ? something like that
[17:07] <KT5TK> Upu Sorry XYL was calling..
[17:07] <Upu> depends on the antenna
[17:07] <Upu> hehe nps
[17:08] <KT5TK> I didn't find them. Need to make new ones
[17:08] <Upu> ok nps
[17:08] <nigelvh> It may be time for me to switch... The modules I've been using presently are about $35.
[17:09] <KT5TK> I may have some access to a spectrumanalyzer and Networkanalyzer soon. Then I'll compare the simulations with the real data.
[17:11] <Upu> that would be nice
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[17:16] <KT5TK> Upu: BTW the uBlox modules have arrived yesterday. Ufb
[17:17] <KT5TK> Also the Habamp. Didn't remember that 0603s are that big ;)
[17:22] <Upu> 0805's :)
[17:22] <Upu> euro size
[17:22] <cuddykid> fsphil: was it you who built the tesco price checker? Is it still up and running/have a link? Completely random sorry :P
[17:22] <Upu> thx for letting me know
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> me, no
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid:
[17:22] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: ah yes!
[17:22] <cuddykid> sorry fsphil
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> I need to dig it out of the old disk, and restart
[17:22] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: that's a shame, no probs
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> any particular reason?
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> https://secure.techfortesco.com/tescoapiweb/
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> is the API
[17:23] <cuddykid> not really - just recently there have been quite a few pricing errors with tesco (recently £60 odd item down to £1.90) - wondering if your system picked it up
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> it's really easy
[17:23] <cuddykid> ah nice
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> oh
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> no more users. :'(
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[17:40] <KT5TK> nigelvh: R25 in your schematic is potentially a problem
[17:40] <DrLuke> is there any other software besides sdr# I can use on windows?
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[17:40] <KT5TK> DrLuke:Reversi
[17:40] <DrLuke> thanks
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[17:40] <nigelvh> KT5TK, what is R25 associated with?
[17:41] <KT5TK> I think you're pulling down the Voltage DC whise
[17:41] <nigelvh> Ah, yes. I did that on purpose.
[17:41] <DrLuke> KT5TK that seems to be linux only
[17:41] <DrLuke> or am I missing something
[17:42] <KT5TK> which brings the center frequency of the VCXO to a different operating point
[17:42] <KT5TK> You may wor kat the edge there
[17:42] <nigelvh> I'm not using the trackuino code like you are, so I'm doing a full 5V<->0V swing on that pin, so I'm dropping the swing down.
[17:42] <KT5TK> It requires Ub/2
[17:43] <KT5TK> So you're right at the center freq?
[17:43] <nigelvh> I had added this resistor to the last revision to get the deviation right just by tacking it on.
[17:44] <KT5TK> But are you're right at the exact center frequency or do you compensate in software?
[17:45] <nigelvh> I just measure the crystal without deviating anything and use that in the calculation to set frequency in the software, yes.
[17:45] <KT5TK> Then ok
[17:46] <lz1dev> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Power-Supply.aspx
[17:46] <nigelvh> It had been that I was WAAAAAY overdeviating, so I added the 220ohm to make the divider to bring the levels down.
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[17:47] <KT5TK> Make sure that you don't work on the edge of the VCXO linear range. It may stop oscillating when it gets cold
[17:48] <KT5TK> measure the DC level at the VCXO control voltage and make sure you're close to Ub/2
[17:49] <nigelvh> At 0V out from the ATmega, both your and my schematics will end up with 0V at the VCXO
[17:50] <nigelvh> However, while modulating, your PWM setup will keep you at a positive DC bias, but mine will be closer to GND.
[17:50] <KT5TK> No, I always operate my "DAC" at an elevated level
[17:52] <nigelvh> I meant based on the circuits, if you output 0V from the atmega, you'd get 0V at the VCXO, and yes, your PWM 'DAC' will keep the bias higher than my setup will.
[17:52] <KT5TK> You could isolate your audio DC wise with a cap and then use a voltage divider to get to Ub/2
[17:52] <nigelvh> My setup would probably benefit from a series capacitor and a 1/1 voltage divider to bias the VCXO.
[17:52] <KT5TK> exactly
[17:53] <nigelvh> However, we'll only run into that if I keep my modulation pin at either extreme.
[17:53] <nigelvh> Actually, with the divider, only the GND extreme
[17:53] <nigelvh> While modulating, the capacitors will do some work to keep it off the edges
[17:53] <KT5TK> 0 V is also outside the operating range
[17:53] <nigelvh> How close, I actually need to measure.
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[17:54] <KT5TK> with no modulation you should be right at Ub/2
[17:55] <KT5TK> maybe +/- 10%
[17:55] <nigelvh> Yes, if I sink that pin, I end up pulling down on the VCXO
[17:59] <nigelvh> Though, in theory yours would do the same. You just do a 50% pwm to keep it centered.
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[18:17] <nigelvh> Also, assuming that the VCXO you're using is the same as the number on your schematic, it would appear that you can pull that to 0V.
[18:17] <nigelvh> Though, you're into a rather non-linear part of the slope
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:28] <nigelvh> Howdy
[19:29] <Hiena> http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/f-102-1.jpg
[19:29] <nigelvh> Hahaha
[19:29] <arko> she seems to like that rod
[19:29] <nigelvh> "Oh my! Look at your rod!"
[19:30] <fsphil> oh dear
[19:31] <nigelvh> Have something to add fsphil?
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[19:31] <fsphil> nothing sensible :)
[19:32] <nigelvh> sensibility is overrated.
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> balloon: http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/v/r/5yvm3b-kip6ab-jeve/IMG6354.jpeg
[19:34] <fsphil> yes
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:36] <Hiena> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sar5WT76kE#!
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[19:41] <nigelvh> I saw that one the other day. NASA makes me happy
[19:41] <nigelvh> And sad at the same time.
[19:42] <nigelvh> One of the few things our government does well, and they keep cutting funding.
[19:42] <Upu> need more money I'm with Neil Degrasse Tyson on this one, you could have some of my tax money and I'm not even American
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:42] <fsphil> agree with that
[19:42] <nigelvh> NdGT is a genious.
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> does NASA have PayPal?
[19:42] <fsphil> esa's a money black hole
[19:43] <fsphil> maybe NASA should study them
[19:43] <Upu> never seen ESA do anything particularly interesting for years
[19:43] <nigelvh> They tend to contribute sensors to NASA spacecraft.
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:43] <Upu> They did Giotto many years ago
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> maybe they think, as Venus Express and Mars Express are still running well, they don't need to replace them or so
[19:44] <fsphil> venus express doesn't seem to be doing anything
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> but they cut the mercury lander from BepiColombo
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> that was crappy
[19:44] <nigelvh> Then again, Canada contributed a robotic arm. Kinda being shown up by Canada there.
[19:44] <fsphil> rosotta is a nice mission
[19:44] <fsphil> rosetta even
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea, hope it works
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> not like Beagle 2 crashing on mars
[19:46] <fsphil> what a place to crash though
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> at least it made it there
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> what else
[19:47] <fsphil> huygens was great
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> ESA never went beyond Saturn
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> that was awesome
[19:47] <fsphil> still a money black hole, but they've done some great things too
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> people should consider Uranus and Neptune again
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> lots to see there too
[19:49] <fsphil> Triton!
[19:49] <nigelvh> Triton indeed
[19:49] <fsphil> that's an interesting place
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea but Uranus too
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[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> if you check the NASA Photo Journal I think, you can see that it has really interesting clouds and stuff
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> it isn't just a green ball
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[19:51] <nigelvh> Lunar, other people aren't as interested in uranus as you are. :P
[19:52] <costyn> nigelvh: that was too easy wasn't it :)
[19:52] <nigelvh> I'd describe it as too tempting.
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL> hey all
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> URANUS
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone flown any servos?
[19:56] <Upu> yes Rob did
[19:57] <Upu> remove alll the grease
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm curious what solvent he used
[19:57] <costyn> grease will frease :P
[19:57] <Upu> no idea
[19:57] <Upu> I'd try isopropanol as its all I have lying about
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah the problem is that some solvents may also remove the plastic gears :-P
[19:58] <Upu> bah tiz but a small point
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[19:58] <Upu> I have the programmer atm btw
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[20:34] <mclane> hi lunar
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[20:36] <mclane> I am just starting think about vacation
[20:36] <mclane> starting tomorrow night
[20:36] <mclane> everyone wants to have something before christmas
[20:37] <mclane> and doomsday is coming on Friday ;-))
[20:37] <mclane> so quite some stressfull days up to now
[20:37] <mclane> and how about you?
[20:39] <fsphil> A Doomsday for Doomsday
[20:40] <fsphil> can't wait until this sillyness has passed ... until the next one anyway
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> I am quite good
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> I am a bit amused about our 20 million euro cafeteria at uni
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> they have TVs on which the meals are displayed for everyone to see
[20:41] <daveake> that's a lot for a cuppa
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> today I saw that http://s.gullipics.com/image/y/b/4/5yvm3b-kip94f-u9ir/IMG6349.jpeg
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> (says "Potentially dangerous software detected")
[20:43] <mclane> cool
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> lol yea that is the second day they are open
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> I was told that yesterday, on the opening day, there was no power half an hour before opening
[20:43] <mclane> Thats the effect of using "KleinWeich" OS
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> because someone programmed the main breaker switch wrong
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> and now
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> my payload http://s.gullipics.com/image/c/4/w/5yvm3b-kip6bh-16iv/IMG6352.jpeg
[20:46] <mclane> arduino on the back of the pcb I assume?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:47] <mclane> what kind of humidity sensor are you using (the device on the pink styrofoam plate)?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD orange it is
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> Honeywell HIH-4030
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> just what sparkfun had when I started
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> now they got the HIH-6130 which has temperature and humidity and a onewire interface
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[21:04] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander are you there ?
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yes, hello
[21:05] <radim_OM2AMR> hello, friend, just for inspiration, my brand new trackers http://i.imgur.com/cf9DJ.jpg
[21:05] <radim_OM2AMR> just finished :-)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:07] <radim_OM2AMR> pcb and smd soldering is not my work, but our friends from factory :-)
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> :) sounds good
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[21:08] <radim_OM2AMR> I'm not able to solder venus gps chip& as I don't have reflow owen
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[21:09] <Upu> very tidy radim
[21:09] <radim_OM2AMR> I have to say, that I was inspired by Upu's conference badge board :-)
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:09] <radim_OM2AMR> ohh, Upu, evening :-)
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> as a comparison my board http://s.gullipics.com/image/c/4/w/5yvm3b-kip6bh-16iv/IMG6352.jpeg
[21:09] <Upu> oh one does APRS one does RTTY
[21:09] <Upu> nice
[21:09] <radim_OM2AMR> yes, PCB is universal for both radios
[21:10] <Upu> good thinking that
[21:10] <radim_OM2AMR> there are just solder jumpers for different Vcc and for PTT handling
[21:10] <Upu> yeah I see them
[21:10] <Upu> I've done a dual 70cms/2meter board
[21:11] <Upu> will put some pics up when it arrives
[21:11] <Upu> how did you get the Venus on there ?
[21:11] <radim_OM2AMR> all the smd's was soldered in pcb factory, venus was in owen
[21:12] <Upu> ah ok
[21:12] <Upu> use a ublox next time, much easier :)
[21:12] <radim_OM2AMR> yeah, I have one from you :-D
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[21:13] <radim_OM2AMR> anyway, thank you for good inspiration Upu :-)
[21:13] <Upu> get it on there :)
[21:13] <Upu> hey more than welcome that was the whole idea of the badge board
[21:13] <Upu> btw new idea for a cut away
[21:13] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfg_zI5kR14&feature=youtu.be
[21:15] <radim_OM2AMR> ah, great, is it that parachute rings cut off ?
[21:15] <Upu> yep
[21:15] <Upu> well just 3 key rings actually
[21:16] <radim_OM2AMR> and now to add small servo.. great
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, didn't you say you had one of these 808 cameras?
[21:17] <mclane> I could not identify it very well on the video - what is the working principle?
[21:17] <Upu> 1 sec imgur is being crap again
[21:17] <DrLuke> has anybody in here got some experience with nRF905?
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> it looks like one of these patience games you can buy on the christmas market
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi DrLuke
[21:18] <DrLuke> hi
[21:18] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/IMG_1379.JPG
[21:19] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, yes, I have two #16 808 cameras
[21:19] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/3Ring_release_animation.gif
[21:19] <Upu> is the mechanism
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> radim, as Upu and I were discussing that those can interfere with GPS
[21:20] <mclane> ah - ok!
[21:20] <radim_OM2AMR> mclane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AItz8GcYx60
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, cool!
[21:20] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, yes, Upu and daveake suffered from GPS jamming from those cams
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> so we won't fly ours I think
[21:21] <Upu> be safest
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:21] <daveake> To be specific, daveake suffered from Upu's camera jamming :p
[21:21] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, but I'm using different GPS chip and active antenna (SAW in antenna, SAW in chip according to datasheet)
[21:22] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake :-D
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, XD
[21:23] <mclane> DrLuke - I am starting to work with XRF modules based on CC1110 from TI
[21:23] <DrLuke> well
[21:23] <mclane> Just got them and will try soon
[21:23] <DrLuke> I'm having hardware problems
[21:23] <DrLuke> I basically got almost 0 TX power :/
[21:24] <DrLuke> and I can't tell if it's a software or hardware problem, although I copied the reference design almost 1:1
[21:25] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, you can make some tests on the ground, but for sure I will listen to Upu :-D he is the guru :-D
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, what happened exactly?
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, yea, on the ground I got next to no errors
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> but better not challenge ist
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> it
[21:25] <daveake> Upu put his camera onto the top of my payload, this rendering my GPS inoperative :B
[21:25] <DrLuke> I am so totally never ever touching RF again if I don't have to
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:26] <mclane> RF can be black magic
[21:26] <nigelvh> Can be? I'd say more like "Always is"
[21:26] <Gadget-Mac> mclane: You got base XRF modules or the amplified version ?
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw did that only happen with the 808 on top of the payload?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> what happened when it is on the side?
[21:27] <daveake> Yup. I still maintain that a Yagi works by locally changing the laws of physics
[21:27] <DrLuke> nigelvh: no idea
[21:27] <mclane> got XRF; amplified version is not out yet
[21:27] <mclane> but if XRFs are working good, that is my next step ;-))
[21:28] <daveake> Lunar_Lander We didn't try other positions. We didn't realise what the cause was at the time. It was only when Upu had GPS troubles on a later flight that he realised what the cause was.
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:29] <Gadget-Mac> mclane: Be interested to see how you get on. Although it does limit receiving options
[21:29] <mclane> Yes, I will use a pair
[21:29] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, I saw another HAB team here in Slovakia, they suffered from interference from other micro cameras too, they moved cams from gps antennas and got the fix, but it's not rule
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> I still think a simple faraday cage will do it
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> but again
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> don't stress it
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:30] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: I made an experiment with an 808 #16 with a uBlox (from upu) and got jamming only if I put the camera very close to the helix antenna
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:31] <mclane> close = 2-3 cm
[21:31] <radim_OM2AMR> I put the running cam near by active antenna, no interference, put it on top of GPS chip, also without any interference, but as I said, different chip...
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:33] <Gadget-Mac> mclane: You planing on 2 ways comms then ?
[21:33] <radim_OM2AMR> btw,the new version - video out, usb power cable http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180962539554?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[21:33] <mclane> Gadget-Mac: yes
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[21:34] <mclane> I was inspired by the portugese team using xbee pro at 868 MHz
[21:34] <mclane> but xbee pro is too expensive
[21:35] <nigelvh> I have used the 900MHz xbee pros for ground stuff and they've worked well, but I'm wary of digital transmissions on a balloon because if it gets weak you lose everything.
[21:35] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, I see connectors with lock, great !
[21:35] <mclane> about 120 EUR a pair
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:35] <Gadget-Mac> mclane: Really ?
[21:36] <mclane> yes: http://www.digistoreeurope.com/?pn=XBP08-DK&utm_source=google&utm_medium==&utm_campaign=%28organic%29
[21:38] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, GPS soldered, good. What king of coax cable are you using ?
[21:38] <radim_OM2AMR> *kind
[21:38] <Gadget-Mac> Ah well that is the full dev kit
[21:38] <mclane> First try will be in parallel with the well-proven 434 MHz NTX2 based tracker
[21:40] <Gadget-Mac> Sounds sensible :)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, good question, we just found it in one of the lab storage boxes
[21:41] <mclane> Gadget-Mac: a single module is 72$ - not really much cheaper ;-))
[21:41] <Gadget-Mac> Sure. Interesting guess it's low volume
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[21:42] <mclane> anyways, the idea is to transmit images
[21:43] <Gadget-Mac> That'll be cool
[21:44] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander,oh, yes.
[21:48] <mclane> upu: from where did you get the cutaway thing? or did you build it yourself?
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[21:54] <Upu> yeah made it myself
[21:54] <Upu> just a few key rings
[21:54] <Upu> not sure I'd risk an £80 latex balloon on a paper clip though
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD like the "Terminator" on the other slovakian balloon
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, what was it called again?
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> Julo 2 or so?
[21:56] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar_Lander, yes, it was Julo2 ballon, but it's not ours :-)
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah I know
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> but I remember how the terminator failed
[21:57] <radim_OM2AMR> they lost one balloon due that fail during start...
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> what was it again?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> I think a servo was supposed to loosen a screw or so?
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[22:01] <radim_OM2AMR> exactly, over-engineered cut-off :-)
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:01] <radim_OM2AMR> 433 MHz link from payload to cut-off
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:02] <radim_OM2AMR> I'm thinking about to put NiCr wire inside payload box
[22:02] <radim_OM2AMR> and to use two lines, but I have to test it
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about my cutdown which was derived from the HORUS model?
[22:03] <radim_OM2AMR> but I'm afraid that wet line will freeze and not will not pull well from roller
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea that is not good
[22:05] <radim_OM2AMR> quick scratch of my idea :-) I'm not artits, you was warned :-D http://www.forum.radiosonda.sk/download/file.php?id=2397
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> looks reasonable
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, balloon: http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/v/r/5yvm3b-kip6ab-jeve/IMG6354.jpeg
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[22:06] <radim_OM2AMR> lines are not in scale , the upper one will be much longer
[22:07] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, oh, it's US military one ?
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> I got two of these and a KCI-1500
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:08] <radim_OM2AMR> Lunar, so that old known video is for you :-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4USw4VrtXtc
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:09] <daveake> radim_OM2AMR I did a cutdown like that ages ago. Dunno if it would have worked or not - the software didn't trigger
[22:09] <radim_OM2AMR> And Julo2 fail should be video response to it :-D
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> I can't see a vid response
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> damn new youtube
[22:09] <daveake> (the code was only enabled above 35km and it didn't get that high)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> I just wonder why the balloon ripped away
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> did the payload weigh 50 kg or so?
[22:10] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake, I'm afraid of freezing and lines tangling
[22:10] <daveake> yes lines could twist definitely
[22:10] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake - good point!
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> hm searching julo 2 balloon on youtube gives no results
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[22:12] <radim_OM2AMR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaDshZS0JLI
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:13] <radim_OM2AMR> nice girls there :-)
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[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> I still don't get why the balloon failed on the launch in mexico(?)
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
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[22:20] <Rozier> hey all
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:20] <Rozier> hey Lunar!
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[22:32] <fsphil> there's poo on the moon!!!1
[22:32] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNP8wy3S_kY
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[22:41] <Laurenceb_> finally got power to my house
[22:41] <fsphil> wb!
[22:42] <gonzo___> time to invest in a generator
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> mains cable blew up
[22:42] <fsphil> what an odd first comment to see, sorry :)
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[22:46] <nigelvh> Perhaps I'll have to show those videos to my fiance.
[22:47] <nigelvh> Her one bit of crazy is she doesn't think we landed on the moon.
[22:47] <fsphil> !
[22:47] <nigelvh> Curiosity rover is real, various satellites, etc. Moon, nope.
[22:47] <lz1dev> thats a bit odd
[22:47] <lz1dev> what about ISS and people on there?
[22:47] <nigelvh> Yep, she knows they're there.
[22:48] <fsphil> there are photos of the landing sites
[22:48] <nigelvh> Yep
[22:48] <fsphil> with footprints
[22:48] <nigelvh> She doesn't think they're conclusive enough
[22:48] <lz1dev> yeah there a actual film photos from the moon
[22:48] <fsphil> I mean recent ones, from lunar orbit
[22:48] <nigelvh> I've also told her about the retroreflectors and whatnot.
[22:48] <fsphil> that's really odd
[22:49] <nigelvh> Trust me, I've tried to show her the 'err of her ways.
[22:49] <arko> wait what
[22:49] <lz1dev> maybe she is messing with you :D
[22:49] <arko> my spider senses tingled
[22:49] <arko> something about not landing on the moon?
[22:49] <nigelvh> I don't believe so. She does NOW take joy in that it makes me angry, but I don't think she honestly believes.
[22:49] <arko> ok
[22:49] <arko> good
[22:50] <arko> i shall go back to my cave now
[22:50] <nigelvh> I think you misinterpret arko, she doesn't believe we landed on the moon, despite the evidence we did.
[22:51] <arko> oh no, i read it, i dont think she believes it either
[22:51] <arko> she's just messing with you
[22:51] <arko> which is normal
[22:52] <arko> if she actually believes it..im ready to argue
[22:52] <bertrik> everyone knows the moon is made of cheese, I saw it in a movie
[22:52] <nigelvh> I think part of the problem is that she's smart, but does more psych/medical knowledge. The earth and space sciences never latched with her.
[22:52] <fsphil> it would be easier to land on the moon, than to convince all those people to keep quite about faking it :)
[22:52] <nigelvh> I can tell her about retro-reflectors all day long, but they're not intuitive to her understanding.
[22:53] <lz1dev> retro-reflectors are not tangible evidence
[22:53] <nigelvh> fsphil: as XKCD put it, "If NASA were willing to fake great accomplishments, they'd have another by now"
[22:53] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw
[22:53] <nigelvh> Or as NdGT put it, "Sitting on top of a skyscraper full of rocket fuel, where else do you think they'd be going?"
[22:53] <lz1dev> nigelvh: you just wait until comercial flights to the moon
[22:54] <nigelvh> Yeah, hopefully it won't take that much convincing. I'm not rich enough.
[22:55] <lz1dev> wave the leaflet and be all, 'see, i told you'
[22:56] <nigelvh> If a leaflet were all it took, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be here.
[22:57] <nigelvh> I should find that google moon tour though. That had some good imagery.
[22:57] <lz1dev> oh!
[22:57] <lz1dev> google earth had a map of the moon
[22:57] <lz1dev> I think
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[22:59] <lz1dev> http://www.google.com/moon/
[22:59] <nigelvh> Yeah
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[23:01] <lz1dev> she must be messing with you
[23:01] <nigelvh> I hope so
[23:02] <lz1dev> mars is so far away compared to the moon
[23:02] <nigelvh> I don't think it's the distance, just the complication of getting a person someplace.
[23:02] <lz1dev> moon is easy
[23:02] <nigelvh> (Though she's good with the whole rocket skycrane business)
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[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't sound that good nigelvh
[23:24] <nigelvh> Yeah...
[23:24] <nigelvh> Oh well, I think I can forgive one bit of crazy.
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:26] <fsphil> aah cool my youtube switched back to the old layout
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[23:27] <nigelvh> BTW Lunar_Lander, my new boards came in. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMG_0373.jpg
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> now you only have to populate it
[23:28] <nigelvh> It's mostly done, I just haven't taken another picture
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> how do you do the SMD soldering?
[23:28] <nigelvh> By hand
[23:29] <nigelvh> Generally I put some solder on one pad, hold the iron on it and place the part on with tweezers. Then pull the iron away, the solder cools and holds the part while I solder the other pads.
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> sounds like a tedious process
[23:30] <nigelvh> Yes, compared to stenciling, it is tedious
[23:30] <nigelvh> I expect that total time assembling this board is going to be about 4-6 hours.
[23:30] <nigelvh> I also expect that if I got some solder paste and a skillet, I could cut that time down a LOT
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:34] <nigelvh> Anyway, it's something I definitely need to do, but for now I can work around it by hand.
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:49] <nigelvh> Alrighty then, home time. Evening all!
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[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> good evening nigelvh
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 19 2012