highaltitude.log.20121214

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[00:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
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[00:23] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico launches sat 15th"
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[01:53] <Dan-K2VOL> I love it when I find horrible code errors in code that has flown already
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> like having a local variable named the same thing in two functions, and forgetting it's not global
[01:54] <Randomskk> hehe
[01:54] <Randomskk> better yet when it somehow worked anyway
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah it did actually, this was the white star iridium code
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a retry time counter
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> I never could figure out why the retry times were never what I expected them to be!
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[04:42] <niftylettuce_> anyone here launching or know someone doing a campaign on Kickstarter/Indiegogo?
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[06:57] <jcoxon> morning
[06:58] <Darkside> evening
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[06:59] <x-f_> morning
[06:59] <Upu> morning
[06:59] <Upu> out voted Darkside
[07:00] <Darkside> lol
[07:00] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[07:00] <Darkside> Upu: we will be wanting those modules
[07:00] <Darkside> and probably more than 5 :P
[07:00] <Upu> ok no probs
[07:00] <Upu> well I got 10
[07:00] <Darkside> heh ok
[07:00] <Upu> if you want more than that let me know I can always amend the order
[07:00] <Upu> not coming until the 22nd
[07:01] <Upu> afk back from work
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[08:13] <UpuWork> god its a nightmare out there
[08:14] <Darkside> how so?
[08:14] <lz1dev> snow?
[08:14] <lz1dev> lava?
[08:14] <x-f> too sunny?
[08:14] <Darkside> x-f: no that's here
[08:15] <x-f> Darkside, maybe british people are not used to the sun..
[08:15] <UpuWork> well freezing fog
[08:16] <UpuWork> has turned everything its touched into a ice ring
[08:16] <UpuWork> and I mean every single surface
[08:16] <UpuWork> and then its rained slightly to ensure the optimum slippyness
[08:16] <lz1dev> excellent, you've devoloped ice super powers
[08:17] <UpuWork> my accounts lady is in hospital having fallen over, three of my engineers are unable to get in
[08:18] <x-f> eek
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[08:36] <fsphil> just rain here. really heavy rain and wind
[08:36] <fsphil> too warm for ice or snow
[08:36] <fsphil> sorry, "warm"
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[09:38] <nosebleedkt> hi all
[09:38] <fsphil> hullo mr.t
[09:47] <x-f> hi
[09:48] <x-f> nosebleedkt, could you, please, briefly describe, what do you need to do to get a permission and launch a HAB in Greece?
[09:49] <joph> lol
[09:49] <joph> just give the next police officer 20¬ and you have the permission *scnr*
[09:49] <wibble_> lol
[09:49] <joph> yeah
[09:50] <nosebleedkt> x-f, nothing! no laws here for such thing
[09:50] <nosebleedkt> x-f, u greek ?
[09:50] <joph> lol
[09:50] <joph> never reading news?
[09:51] <x-f> nosebleedkt, no, i'm far north, just interested in legislation in different countries
[09:51] <wibble_> does anyone know what the functional difference is between SainSmart and Ardunio? SS appears to be *cheap*
[09:51] <joph> nothing works there without slush money according to a news from the spiegel and other magazines
[09:52] <x-f> nosebleedkt, so no NOTAM, no phoning to ATC, you just get out and launch?
[09:52] <nosebleedkt> x-f, here officialy no rules
[09:52] <nosebleedkt> yes
[09:52] <x-f> ok, thanks
[09:52] <wibble_> any rules on radio frequency you can use? :)
[09:53] <joph> i think the ISM frequencies should be usable
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[10:07] <costyn> x-f: we do have some regulations here in the netherlands concerning size of balloon and payload and amount of helium used, but if you stay below those levels you can launch anywhere you want without a NOTAM. You're only not allowed to launch within 3km of an airport ;)
[10:08] <x-f> costyn, thank you, you were the next in my list :)
[10:08] <x-f> what are the limits on balloon size and payload weight?
[10:12] <costyn> x-f: 4kg combined or 3kg single payload max weight
[10:13] <costyn> x-f: objects of 2kg or more with density of 13gr/cm^2 are not allowed
[10:13] <costyn> x-f: objects of 2kg or more with density of 13gr/cm^2 are not allowedx
[10:13] <costyn> x-f: lines have to break at 230 newton
[10:13] <costyn> x-f: if it's bigger than 30g it has to have a parachute which will slow descent to 5m/s
[10:15] <costyn> x-f: balloon: max 2m diameter at launch or 4 cubic meters of helium
[10:15] <x-f> great!
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[10:16] <x-f> and congratulations on very sensible regulations :)
[10:16] <x-f> thanks
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[10:16] <costyn> x-f: haha thanks
[10:16] <costyn> x-f: oh you're allowed to launch near airports of you let the tower know beforehand :)
[10:18] <x-f> if a 30 minutes long walk is too much hassle :)
[10:18] <costyn> heh
[10:19] <costyn> a good reason to launch at an aiport would be filling balloon in a hangar
[10:19] <costyn> but that's the only reason I can think of
[10:20] <x-f> if you use helium, then yes
[10:20] <costyn> x-f: and officially it has to be for scientific research, including meteorological
[10:21] <costyn> x-f: http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0007094 all listed here, but in Dutch
[10:21] <x-f> i'll take a look through google translation
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[10:27] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Re: Ofcom Update: GPS Jamming Notice"
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[10:29] <x-f> lz1dev, radim_OM2AMR, i would greatly appreciate such information about HAB regulations from you about Bulgaria and Slovakia
[10:30] <costyn> x-f: maybe you could put what you collect in the wiki
[10:31] <costyn> x-f: I think I started something somewhere once
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[10:37] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f , ok, no problem, I can add such info to the wiki, costyn - it's good idea to put it to the wiki
[10:39] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, that would be cool
[10:39] <lz1dev> x-f: haha, your assumtion is amusing :)
[10:39] <x-f> i found info only for UK and Germany there
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[10:40] <x-f> lz1dev, you are from there, aren't you?
[10:40] <lz1dev> yeah, there are not hab regulatoins
[10:40] <lz1dev> but there are some for light aircraft
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[10:40] <lz1dev> ill find the text and get the key points on the wiki
[10:40] <x-f> great
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[10:49] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f, we have same regulations in Slovakia like costyn in general
[10:49] <radim_OM2AMR> except the maximum size of balloon and helium amount
[10:50] <radim_OM2AMR> ballon in this case is taken like "light unmanned balloon"
[10:51] <radim_OM2AMR> CAA in Slovakia is not releasing any NOTAM message, just flight permission
[10:51] <radim_OM2AMR> you have to call local ATC about 30 minutes before flight
[10:52] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, what about the balloon size and amount of gas? are they more stricter than in Netherlands?
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[10:53] <radim_OM2AMR> no, we don't have any requests/restriction regarding gas amount and balloon size
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[10:53] <x-f> ah, got it
[10:54] <x-f> thanks, radim_OM2AMR
[10:56] <radim_OM2AMR> there is just such sentence, that you are not allowed to fly if your ballon or payload is risky in case of collision with ground
[10:57] <costyn> radim_OM2AMR: whaaat? no nitroglycerine on my payload? outrageous
[10:58] <radim_OM2AMR> costyn, no grenade, no bombs :-)
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[10:59] <costyn> :)
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[11:02] <radim_OM2AMR> and the last important info, flight permission in Slovakia is free of charge, but in Czech republic it costs about 200 Eur ! I tried to obtain permission from Czech CAA in case we will land in Czech.
[11:03] <x-f> heh
[11:04] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, when you apply for the permission, do you have to give them the max altitude, ascent rate, forecasted landing site, anything like that?
[11:05] <x-f> and how much time before the flight do they need any information from you?
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[11:10] <radim_OM2AMR> 15 days in advance, but usually one month before flight
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[11:13] <radim_OM2AMR> when we apply for permission we have to give them start location GPS, ascent rate, max alt, size and color and mass of balloon, estimated begin and end of flight, size and mass of the box, line diameter and breaking force info (<230N)
[11:15] <daveake> Estimated end of flight, 15-30days in advance??
[11:15] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake, sure :-) Important word is the "estimated" :-D
[11:16] <daveake> For me, that would be "Er, I think it might land in the UK"
[11:16] <daveake> or territorial waters :p
[11:16] <radim_OM2AMR> :-)
[11:17] <radim_OM2AMR> people from CAA in SK are very friendly to HAB-bing, but people from ATC are not
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[11:20] <radim_OM2AMR> or maybe I had "luck" for an ATC guy with wrong day :-) I had to read and spell whole permission during phone call :-|
[11:21] <x-f> people in SK are generally friendly, i've been there and i enjoyed my time there
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[12:16] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.com/patents?vid=5782818
[12:17] <costyn> Laurenceb: not exactly on-topic for #highaltitude
[12:18] <eroomde> Laurenceb: i think you have the kind of sense of humour that's better left internal
[12:19] <Laurenceb> sorry
[12:19] <Laurenceb> eww douple meaning
[12:19] <Laurenceb> *double
[12:36] <lz1dev> http://habhub.org/calc/ :D
[12:37] <radim_OM2AMR> aah, new look of calculator ? great !
[12:38] <UpuWork> thats lz1dev's work
[12:39] <fsphil> ooh that is jazzy
[12:39] <costyn> lz1dev: niiiice
[12:39] <mattbrejza> :D
[12:39] <chris_99> like the design :)
[12:40] <mattbrejza> btw is there an API for the predictor yet?
[12:40] <lz1dev> try scrolling the input fields
[12:40] <costyn> lz1dev: that's really cool
[12:40] <UpuWork> how do they work ?
[12:40] <fsphil> ah, mouse wheel
[12:40] <UpuWork> oh yeah
[12:40] <UpuWork> I see nice
[12:41] <fsphil> my mouse wheel is nuts sadly
[12:41] <lz1dev> :D
[12:41] Action: fsphil really needs a new mouse
[12:42] <costyn> feature suggestion: float warning? if certain parameters are met, you get a message: your balloon is likely to float!
[12:42] <fsphil> good one
[12:42] <lz1dev> im not sure what the recipe for floating is
[12:43] <costyn> large hwoyee + slow (<4) ascent rate
[12:43] <UpuWork> if balloon = 1600g Hwoyee and ascent <5.5m/s = floaty time
[12:44] <daveake> Question re the calculator ... why is it that when you ask for an ascent of (say) 5m/s, it gives a result with an ascent rate of (say) 5.5m/s?
[12:44] <x-f> SP9UOB floated a 1000 Hwoyee, didn't he?
[12:44] <costyn> daveake: I have often wondered that myself
[12:46] <lz1dev> not sure
[12:47] <lz1dev> probably guesses the other values, and then calculates the speed based on them
[12:48] <costyn> fsphil: I can recommend the Logitech M-500 btw, nice comfy mouse with a flywheel scrollwheel (which you can change back to discrete steps with a button)
[12:49] <radim_OM2AMR> lz1dev, is it using the same calculator formula like old one ?
[12:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomasz Brol "[UKHAS] Launch anouncment 22/12/2012 10:00 UTC"
[12:50] <lz1dev> yep
[12:50] <lz1dev> just a reskin
[12:51] <radim_OM2AMR> ok, thanks, anyway very nice reskin :-)
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[12:52] <lz1dev> hmm, i wonder, does it work in IE
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[12:55] <x-f> works in IE9
[12:56] <radim_OM2AMR> lz1dev, I never tried that, burst alt over 40 km
[12:56] <radim_OM2AMR> and now: Target burst altitude is too high! (greater than 40km)
[12:56] <costyn> radim_OM2AMR: which balloon?
[12:56] <fsphil> thanks costyn will have a look. I prefer the clicky wheels
[12:57] <radim_OM2AMR> Hwoyee1600
[12:57] <costyn> fsphil: it is clicky, but you press a button and it flies!
[13:00] <costyn> and because it's a (relatively heavy) flywheel it has a nice solid feel to it
[13:00] <fsphil> this one here (old genius mouse) you scroll the wheel and it's pretty much 50/50 which direction it goes
[13:01] <costyn> haha
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[14:17] <x-f> nice, a new "tower" in Ukraine has appeared on the spacenearus map
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[14:20] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f good to know :-) for our upcoming january flight :-D
[14:20] <number10> RocketBoy: do you lnow what frequency james is using tomorrow?
[14:20] <number10> kmow
[14:20] <costyn> we'll need to keep him interested.... not going to hear much in Ukraine when most launches are in UK :)
[14:20] <number10> I give up with the keyboard today!
[14:22] <radim_OM2AMR> costyn - and what about Madagascar ? :-)
[14:23] <x-f> oh, really
[14:24] <Gadget-Mac> For those tinkering with ADS stuff http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21628956.300-satellite-upgrade-should-let-planes-slash-emissions.html
[14:24] <radim_OM2AMR> PY is prefix for Brazil, so probably mistake in GPS coords
[14:25] <costyn> radim_OM2AMR: what the heck?!
[14:25] <costyn> our friend from Saudi been on lately? I see there's a listener in Oman
[14:26] <radim_OM2AMR> PY2RPD looks like Brazil amateur radio operator callsign
[14:26] <costyn> maybe SP2DDV can help the Saudi guy out
[14:27] <costyn> SP2DDV is not Oman I see now
[14:27] <costyn> but Poland
[14:27] <costyn> I think
[14:27] <radim_OM2AMR> you're right, wth ??
[14:28] <radim_OM2AMR> and WA4ADG is in China :-D
[14:28] <mfa298> there also appears to be an american in China.
[14:28] <costyn> I guess leaving the default N and E of the dec coordinates isn't working out for them :P
[14:28] <mfa298> also looks like g7ogx should have been /mm
[14:29] <eroomde> out at sea
[14:29] <mfa298> middle of the english channel
[14:30] <radim_OM2AMR> chasing for Upu's payload maybe
[14:33] <UpuWork> would have helped
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[15:15] <malgar> hello! I would like to launch a "low altitude balloon".. a party balloon with a leighweight gps tracker <50 g Burst height < 2000 m Do I anyway need a permission?
[15:16] <eroomde> malgar: location?
[15:16] <malgar> italy
[15:16] <eroomde> ah, i don;t know then i'm afraid. Braindamage, who is on here sometimes, is italian
[15:16] <eroomde> he might know
[15:16] <malgar> Braindamage is one of the stratospera team?
[15:17] <eroomde> not sure
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[16:38] <cuddykid> interesting article - http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/vortex-radio-waves-could-boost-wireless-capacity-infinitely
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[16:41] <malgar> interesting video about pressure *inside* a latex balloon
[16:42] <malgar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwh-i0WB_bQ
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[16:51] <Grumbleist> anyone know if fldigi can capture decoded packets to a text file ?
[16:51] <Grumbleist> preferably only decoded packets, not just a stream...
[16:51] <fsphil> not decoded packets, but it does send received telemetry to a tcp port
[16:51] <Randomskk> it doesn't know what's a "decoded packets"
[16:52] <Randomskk> well
[16:52] <Randomskk> I guess that isn't strictly true
[16:52] <Randomskk> but why do you ask?
[16:52] <merlin_> try an a large array]
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[16:52] <Grumbleist> would be useful if chasing a balloon with no mobile 'net access
[16:53] <mclane> look into the log file
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[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:54] <merlin_> its just two fpu i'd have thought
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> this is the new board configuration http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/6/z/5yvrzx-kiikdz-tter/IMG6332.jpeg
[16:55] <fsphil> I'm not sure you're in the right conversation merlin_
[16:58] <merlin_> that picture looked like something out of a fruit machine when i was a kid. its all about arm cpu's low cost and effiency
[17:02] <mclane> flightradar24.com
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[17:21] <Laurenceb> join #raspberrypi
[17:22] <Randomskk> gg
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[17:23] <Laurenceb> doh
[17:24] <Laurenceb> heading off for my daily trolling session
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[17:28] <malgar> are jet streams seasonals? Is possible to predict the season having less probability to catch a jetstream give a latitude?
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[17:48] <x-f> malgar, in general, yes, they are seasonal, jetstream calms down on summer
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[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello radim_OM2AMR
[19:15] <radim_OM2AMR> hi Lunar, how are u ?
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> I am good thanks
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> radim, have a look here http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/6/z/5yvrzx-kiikdz-tter/IMG6332.jpeg
[19:26] <x-f> hi, Lunar
[19:27] <x-f> where are those two yellow wires going to?
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> to the screw joint with the NiCr wire for the cutdown
[19:29] <x-f> what's the JST connector for?
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> for the lipoly for the cutdown
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:31] <x-f> the white LED blinks when NTX2 is transmitting?
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> (blue)
[19:32] <x-f> ok, thanks, i have no more questions :)
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> :) o
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> one moment please
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/z/l/5yvrzx-kiism8-0j4c/IMG6330.jpeg
[19:35] <x-f> i see
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> with batteries it weigs
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> 233.4 g
[19:37] <x-f> nice touch on the power switch
[19:37] <x-f> just make sure nothing hits it during the flight
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, the board will be the topmost thing in the box
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> maybe that reduces the danger?
[19:39] <x-f> should be ok, but be careful anyway
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:39] <x-f> i think you have seen videos what happens right after burst
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, spinning and so on
[19:41] <x-f> and i would immobilise the antenna wire somehow, to be sure it doesn't break free from the NTX2
[19:42] <arko> anyone have suggestions for a well priced high speed camera/
[19:42] <arko> ?
[19:42] <Randomskk> heh
[19:42] <Randomskk> how high speed, and how well priced?
[19:42] <Randomskk> they are two things that don't generally go together
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> x-f, yeah I want to tie down the coax cable next to the solder point somehow
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> that's called stress relief I think?
[19:43] <arko> not pro
[19:43] <arko> just consumer
[19:43] <fsphil> the newer gopros have a fairly nice frame rate
[19:43] <Randomskk> arko: like, the gopro hd hero 3 black edition does 240fps at wvga and isn't so expensive, plus has a lot of nice features
[19:43] <Randomskk> but maybe 240fps is not what you're looking for
[19:44] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, yeah, that's what i meant
[19:44] <arko> higher speed would be nice
[19:44] <Randomskk> it gets expensive quite fast :3
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[19:58] <arko> caiso exilim zr-100 looks good
[19:58] <arko> i know eroomde told me about one, but i cant remember it
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[20:02] <Randomskk> arko: he was probably talking about the casio exilim ex-f1
[20:03] <arko> yikes
[20:03] <Randomskk> which can do up to 1200fps, at 336x96px
[20:03] <arko> cant afford that
[20:03] <Randomskk> if you can't afford that I don't think there's much that will work :P
[20:04] <arko> ZR100 is affordable and good enough
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[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> x-f, I want to make a decompression test
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> to see how the barometer reacts
[20:13] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, good idea, share the results when done
[20:14] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> will do
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello james
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> Armin
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> afternoon
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> I should pay more attention to the keyboard
[20:17] <jcoxon> hmmm going to be windy tomorrow
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> windy here now
[20:17] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm wondering if I should upgrade my ups.
[20:18] <fsphil> windy here this-morning. guess it's heading east
[20:18] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@host86-129-31-206.range86-129.btcentralplus.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, PICO launches from Suffolk Sat 15/12/12 ~1500GMT
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> 2*100ah batteries can be around a hundred on eBay
[20:18] <jcoxon> yeah it should calm tomorrow
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yay jcoxon is Op!
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> power cuts are annoying
[20:19] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, indeed i am
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:19] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[20:25] <cuddykid> good luck jcoxon for tomorrow - hopefully we'll get some good floatyness
[20:26] <jcoxon> thanks cuddykid
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> good luck!
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[20:28] <fsphil> may the float be with you
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[20:52] <jcoxon> ping number10
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/d/a/5yvrzx-kiiv6k-yc0u/IMG6313.jpeg
[21:00] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) got lost in the net-split.
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[21:08] <jcoxon> good work Lunar_Lander
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[21:19] Nick change: [1]G8KNN_LT -> G8KNN_LT
[21:24] <Upu> whats that lipo doing Lunar_Lander ?
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> that's for the nicr cutdown
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[21:26] <Upu> evening jcoxon what frequency will your payload be on and whats the call sign ?
[21:26] <jcoxon> PICO
[21:26] <jcoxon> don't mind which freq
[21:27] <jcoxon> shall i go for 434.400
[21:28] Nick change: piotrp_ -> piotrp
[21:29] <Upu> why not
[21:29] <Upu> guess Steve's is a XABEN
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[21:42] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[21:49] <Upu> what time is kick off tomorrow jcoxon ?
[21:50] <jcoxon> after lunch
[21:50] <jcoxon> ground winds are better
[21:50] <Upu> k
[21:50] <jcoxon> prob launch at 1500
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[21:52] <number10> pomg jcoxon
[21:56] <jcoxon> wanna try and launch tomorrow?
[21:58] <number10> I may not be able to change frequency easily
[21:59] <number10> but I will have a go - the programming connections are removed
[22:00] <number10> do you think three in the air will be too many?
[22:00] <Upu> what frequency are you on number10 ?
[22:01] <number10> I am on 434.300 - that is what RocketBoy is on
[22:01] <Upu> wonder if RocketBoy can move easily ?
[22:02] <number10> well I dont want to inconvenience anyone - happy to launch later
[22:03] <jcoxon> we should be able to launch 3
[22:03] <jcoxon> i don't see an issue
[22:03] <jcoxon> do you plan to float or recover?
[22:03] <number10> float or maybe sink ;)
[22:04] <number10> I have some milar balloons I bought from steve earlier in year
[22:05] <number10> --foil ones
[22:07] <number10> I will have a go soldering the programming connector on here tomorrow and go for 434.200 - will let you know how it goes
[22:11] <jcoxon> oka
[22:11] <jcoxon> y
[22:11] <jcoxon> don't break it!
[22:12] <jcoxon> Upu with R7 linear what sort of current draw have you seen?
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[22:23] <Upu> err tbh not measured it
[22:23] <Upu> but 2000/16
[22:23] <Upu> 121mA for 16.5 hours run time
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[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> is that for tomorrow?
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> also for reference
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think is the mass of lightest tracker made so far?
[22:27] <Upu> its mattbrejza's
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> what does it weigh?
[22:28] <Upu> then probably pAVA and Mick Mondos thing
[22:28] <Upu> pAVA is 5g
[22:28] <bertrik> a 1g tracker would be nice for tracking bats
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> awesome
[22:29] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> and in flight configuration
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[22:29] <Upu> that can't be much over it
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. with batteries
[22:29] <Upu> Here is the American entry : http://i.imgur.com/36s5f.gif
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> is it powered by an AAA?
[22:30] <Upu> most of the small boards can run from a single AAA
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[22:34] <KT5TK_QRL1> Actually PecanPico is also below 5g: http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/download/PecanPico/PecanPico.jpg Weight mainly depends on the battery though
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:35] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL1, all set for tomorrow?
[22:35] <KT5TK_QRL1> Yes, I'll try to upload a pic later tonight
[22:37] <KT5TK_QRL1> Hope we won't have rain at the launch. But if it's like now, it's OK.
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[22:38] <jcoxon> i hope it floats...
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[22:42] <KF7FER> Hey all! So I just did a set of run-time tests on my new APRS Tracker. I got 7hrs w/ 2xAA (generic department store) and 23hrs 43mins w/ 2xAA L91's. Whoo hoo! I didn't even expect it to work. I'm also doing a test with 1xAA but I don't think it's going to run long enough to be anything more than a cool demo. At least from a battery, maybe it would work better from solar?
[22:42] <KT5TK_QRL1> I hope so too. With 16 x AA Energizer Li batteries I hope we'll have power for quite some time for the 3 transmitters.
[22:43] <KF7FER> I was shocked at how light they were - I never used one until today
[22:43] <KF7FER> well, yesterday I guess :-)
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> what's the record for running time again?
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> 28hours?
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> I got some 38 hours lately with 4 energizer lithium AA
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> off single cell with step up
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> that doesnt count :P
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:44] Action: jcoxon is wondering why he is launching a payload with solar so close to the winter solstice
[22:45] <KF7FER> I wish I didn't have to supply 5v to the HX1, I'm sure I'd get better run-times if I could drop the voltage down a bit
[22:46] <KT5TK_QRL1> There are alternatives to the HX1. E.g. ADF7012 uses 3.3 V
[22:46] <number10> solar tomorrow jcoxon ? is a little bold
[22:47] <KF7FER> KT5TK_QRL1: I've never tried anything like that. So far my experience with radio equipment is mostly black box. How hard is the ADF7012 to implement?
[22:48] <jcoxon> number10, well its not just solar
[22:48] <number10> :)
[22:48] <jcoxon> strange i can hear voices on 434.300
[22:49] <jcoxon> but can't seem to tune them to make it clear
[22:49] <number10> KF7FER: I think Randomskk from CUSF has done AD7012
[22:49] <KT5TK_QRL1> KF7FER: From what I've seen from you, you should be able to do it
[22:49] <KF7FER> so it's UHF?
[22:50] <KF7FER> KT5TK_QRL1: Thanks. I try :-)
[22:50] <KT5TK_QRL1> There is plenty of information here on my pages: http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/download/PecanPico/
[22:50] <KT5TK_QRL1> VHF or UHF, depends on how you populate the filters
[22:51] <KT5TK_QRL1> 2m, 70cm, 222 or 900 MHz
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> does someone have a few minutes?
[22:51] <KF7FER> oh cool, ok thanks! Nice work... I love the pie
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> this man made a video of baking bread using those 808 cameras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr9y-4jNHOc
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> and my friend thinks that camera performance is terrible
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[22:52] <KF7FER> quality-wise or other?
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[22:53] Action: fsphil isn't a fan of the rolling-shutter wobbly video effect
[22:53] <KF7FER> horrible color balance
[22:53] <KF7FER> looks like my indoor pics
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea quality
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> the audio is choppy too
[22:55] <KF7FER> A little choppy yeah. Kinda ugly, but I've seen worse.
[22:55] <KF7FER> why would you do this with a keychain camera?
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> he flies gliders and so on and I think he wanted to show how the 808 performs inflight and at home
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> he has several other clips from going flying recorded with 808s
[22:56] <KF7FER> oh... well it's really not bad given the price and size. But no awards for quality
[22:56] <KF7FER> kinda amazing actually
[22:57] <KF7FER> poor choice for even youtube but I guess I'm probably a snob
[22:57] <KF7FER> oh and it does stutter...
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:58] <KF7FER> I'm sorry, I made it to 5:32 before I thought I saw my life flash before my eyes...
[22:58] <KF7FER> but man KT5TK - that board is sure purdy :-)
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh!
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for your opinion KF7FER
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for that
[22:59] <KF7FER> <laughs> no problem, I was certainly curious. It wasn't that bad.... if I really wanted the info I certainly have suffered thru worse
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> problem is, I just realize
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> he doesn't give what SD card he uses
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> everything that I heard was that you need a fast card
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> Class 10 is the best for the 808
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> maybe he used a slower card or so
[23:01] <KF7FER> hmm... I know the Pi certainly behaves differently given a variety of SD cards
[23:01] <KF7FER> I've been meaning to buy an 808 but just haven't gotten there yet. I do think it's an amazing product given it's cost and size
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> I got a Class 10 because of that
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> and the video is OK I would say
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> in terms of being choppy or smooth
[23:02] <Upu> 808 camera ?
[23:02] <KF7FER> certainly ok. If you want to point out crappy videos there is much worse on the 'tube
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> I can upload an example maybe in a few minutes to youtube
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, yes
[23:02] <Upu> they jam GPS you know
[23:02] <Upu> flying a LiPo KF7FER ?
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> I just notice something
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> the audio jumps occur when he is like moving around
[23:03] <KF7FER> Upu: not me. You mean the 808?
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> do objects in motion like need more processor power when recording?
[23:03] <Upu> oh sorry was looking at PecanPico
[23:04] <KF7FER> Upu: god I wish that was my work. I'd offer my first-born to be able to do that
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> at 2:16 he like says "oh I forgot Oil" and he reaches over and then the audio jumps
[23:04] <KF7FER> but she's 22 and in graduate school and kinda cranky
[23:04] <Upu> yeah the 808 jams GPS
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> on the duration tests that was no problem so far
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> the 808 was taped to the outside of the styrofoam box
[23:05] <Upu> you've been warned
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> but we considered wrapping it in Al foil
[23:05] <Upu> seems to get worse as you move away from the ground
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> wrapping it in Aluminum was discussed here IIRC
[23:06] <KF7FER> Upu: so what do you recommend for video then? Something like https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11418?
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[23:06] <Upu> Not heard good things about that camera
[23:06] <Upu> tbh
[23:06] <Upu> just roll with a GoPro
[23:06] <Upu> tried and tested
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:06] <Upu> or just use a Canon A560
[23:06] <KF7FER> really? that's disappointing.
[23:06] <Upu> cheap cheerful and work
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, what did you hear about the HackHD exactly?
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> I think the price is really high
[23:07] <Upu> its on the mailing list somewhere
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea I remember the thread
[23:07] <KF7FER> thanks for killing my dreams guys... I thought that was just the guts from a GoPro?
[23:08] <Upu> no its far from it
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, but again
[23:08] <Upu> its just a souped up 808 from what I can gather
[23:08] <KF7FER> Upu: So next you'll be telling me I shouldn't wait up for Santa?
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> I think several months ago the talk was that wrapping the 808 should stop interference
[23:08] <Upu> like I say Lunar personally I wouldn't risk it
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:08] <Upu> been there done that
[23:09] <KF7FER> seems like tracking is a dangerous thing to risk
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> I'm wondering what exactly would cause interference
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> and I am sure there is a way to decouple theat
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> *that
[23:09] <Darkside> harmonics of one of the clocks i'm betting
[23:09] <Upu> crap sheilding/filtering possibly
[23:09] <Darkside> radiated harmonics
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:10] <Darkside> which means its basically an interfering carrier
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah the thing
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> I was told if watches would carry KHz crystals that would be bad
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> as the watches would whistle
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[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> all it'd need is a faraday cage
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[23:20] <KF7FER> Lunar_Lander: BTW, I've been following the progress of your board. Nice work for your first board. Much more impressive than mine (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/images/ProtoTracker.JPG)
[23:20] <KF7FER> I've been wanting to add the BMP085 pressure sensor
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea your's looks interesting
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[23:22] <KF7FER> eh... it worked. I first built it to play with the BeRTOS code, then modified it to use the Trackuino stuff
[23:22] <KF7FER> but it was a _basic_ tracker. Nothing more. No extra sensors nor SD logging
[23:23] <KF7FER> I'm thinking of building a daughter board for my current trackers to add a SD card as well as other sensors... I think that's pretty cool.
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[23:25] <KF7FER> so anybody have any comments on reducing ublox power usage? So far I'm running with the defaults, but I'd like to lower power usage
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> KF7FER, the EURUS code has a power saving option I think but I was told it doesn't work
[23:28] <KF7FER> Ideally I'd like the ublox to stop using power for 40 secs out of each minute, then it has 20 seconds to give me a valid location (note I'm using a super cap on VBAT)
[23:28] <KF7FER> Lunar - hmmm.... I'll take a look
[23:28] <jcoxon> Pico's mass = 32.3g
[23:28] <KF7FER> I was thinking of trying to use Cyclic mode
[23:28] <KF7FER> jcoxon: is that fully-loaded?
[23:29] <jcoxon> yup
[23:29] <jcoxon> 2xAAA
[23:29] <jcoxon> 2x 3.6v 100ma solar panels
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[23:29] <KF7FER> rechargable AAA?
[23:29] <jcoxon> no
[23:29] <KT5TK_QRL1> K7FER: I actually have a separate boost reg for the uBlox and switch it on just until I get the coordinates. Then I put the GPS to sleep by killing the enable signal on the boost reg
[23:30] <KF7FER> KT5TK_QRL1: Are you using a supercap to help you hotstart, or don't you care about that?
[23:31] <KF7FER> jcoxon: What sort of run-time do you get with that?
[23:31] <KT5TK_QRL1> No I just power the batt backup pin of the uBlox with the main 3.3V power
[23:31] <jcoxon> KF7FER, so on just the AAA looking at 20-25hrs
[23:31] <KF7FER> oops - I guess that works too eh? Sometimes the answer is the simple one :-)
[23:32] <jcoxon> however the solar should mean that during day time the AAA won't have to work hard
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[23:32] <jcoxon> and in theory the solar *should* be able to power it
[23:32] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[23:32] <KF7FER> jcoxon: very impressive. I just got near 24hrs with my tracker and 2xAA batteries.
[23:32] <RocketBoy> hey
[23:32] <jcoxon> set for tomorrow?
[23:33] <RocketBoy> yep - i'll be there - well wize
[23:33] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, any chance you could shift freq on the payload?
[23:33] <jcoxon> or are you all set?
[23:33] <jcoxon> number10 has hardcoded his to .200
[23:34] <jcoxon> he is trying to change it...
[23:34] <RocketBoy> mines on .300
[23:34] <jcoxon> oh i mean .300
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[23:35] <jcoxon> if not don't worry he was going to try and change it
[23:35] <RocketBoy> oh - difficult to change now - I have to diconnect the power and GPS to run on 3.3v in order to program then drop back down to 1.8
[23:35] <jcoxon> nah leave it be then
[23:36] <RocketBoy> looks like it will turn out at 37g or so
[23:36] <jcoxon> nice
[23:36] <jcoxon> i'm 33.2g
[23:36] <jcoxon> though need some insulation :-p
[23:36] <RocketBoy> ah - ok you think that will float ok
[23:37] <RocketBoy> ?
[23:37] <jcoxon> well by the time i've added insulation i'll be around 35g
[23:37] <jcoxon> the big issue tomorrow will be groundwind
[23:38] <RocketBoy> just checking wx
[23:38] <jcoxon> its better later in the day
[23:39] <gonzo__> same prob here
[23:39] <RocketBoy> yeah 4pm looks okish - even better when it gets dark
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[23:39] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, but i have solar!
[23:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:39] <RocketBoy> ah!
[23:40] <jcoxon> i have AAAs too
[23:40] <jcoxon> maybe i should go first
[23:40] <jcoxon> take advantage of a little sunlight
[23:40] <RocketBoy> whats the longest float we have had out of a 36"
[23:41] Action: jcoxon refers to http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[23:42] <jcoxon> PicoAtlasVIII 22hrs
[23:42] <philipm> greetings. can anyone point me in the direction of the board/schematic for the ublox gps breakout on the habsupplies site? It doesn't appear to be in the upuaut github repository...
[23:42] <jcoxon> oh wait
[23:42] <jcoxon> that not right
[23:43] <RocketBoy> crazy units - seconds of float
[23:43] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, 17 hrs
[23:43] <jcoxon> yeah but thats from the days of 10mins of float
[23:44] <RocketBoy> do theytend to burst after sunise?
[23:44] <RocketBoy> sunrise?
[23:44] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasvi#flight1
[23:45] <jcoxon> not necessarily
[23:46] <jcoxon> most haven't showed much change sunrise/sunset
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[23:48] <RocketBoy> whats the key to float - low necklift?
[23:48] <jcoxon> ascent rate
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[23:49] <RocketBoy> yeah i meant free lift
[23:49] <jcoxon> 1 balloon + < 1m/s
[23:50] <jcoxon> i still use your calc
[23:50] <jcoxon> then wing it a little
[23:52] <RocketBoy> 1g of free lift
[23:53] <RocketBoy> really - its still some use then - excellent
[23:53] <jcoxon> do a bit of timing ascent in the barn
[23:53] <RocketBoy> yeah
[23:54] <RocketBoy> ok I'm off to get some beauty sleep
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 RocketBoy
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[23:54] <RocketBoy> (its gonna take a lot)
[23:54] <RocketBoy> nn
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 15 2012