highaltitude.log.20121208

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[00:44] <Laurenceb__> http://wonderful-russia.net/russian-technology-industry/most-powerful-gas-turbine-electric-locomotive-gtel/
[00:45] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[07:52] <arko> if anyone has free time and has done habs, and wants to peer review this wiki so far: http://wiki.032.la/nsl/HABEX2
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[07:52] <arko> im trying to document everything
[07:52] <arko> i will be making a manual and flight check list, etc
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[08:23] <Upu> needs moar radios arko
[08:23] <Upu> morning daveake
[08:24] <arko> really?
[08:24] <daveake> morning UpuNoWork
[08:24] <Upu> no I'm being sarcastic sorry
[08:24] <arko> haha
[08:24] <Upu> Byonics "Micro"-Trak
[08:24] <arko> ok, im like, i thought we took precautions
[08:24] <arko> yeah
[08:24] <arko> thats our radio that "can't" fail
[08:24] <arko> so it will be going through lots of testing
[08:25] <Upu> heavy unit
[08:25] <Upu> well engineered though
[08:25] <arko> in fact im working on an environmental thermalvac
[08:25] <eroomde> morn
[08:25] <Upu> morning Ed
[08:25] <daveake> In HAB, *everything* fails, eventually
[08:25] <arko> sup eroomde
[08:25] <Upu> usually when it his the sea
[08:25] <daveake> yes that helps
[08:26] <Upu> I'm going to sell my APRS tracker in the US I think :)
[08:26] <arko> oh no way
[08:26] <Upu> All 10g of it
[08:26] <arko> link to details?
[08:27] <Upu> being made but its just a fixed frequency 144.800 at the moment, with a 70cms transmitter on there too
[08:27] <Upu> ublox gps
[08:27] <Upu> can run from a single AA
[08:27] <arko> ohh
[08:27] <arko> yeah we are 144.390 here
[08:28] <Upu> can just swap the module over
[08:28] <arko> yeah, im assuming it's a radiotronix
[08:28] <daveake> Upu Independent Traders ... Halifax, New York ..
[08:28] <Upu> Arko https://secure.join.me/332-255-812
[08:29] <arko> ohh lala
[08:29] <arko> want
[08:29] <arko> no PA?
[08:29] <Upu> that NTX2 is actually a HX1
[08:29] <Upu> no 300mW for the APRS
[08:29] <arko> very clean
[08:29] <arko> that would be very handy to have
[08:30] <Upu> PCB's currently being made
[08:30] <arko> nice
[08:30] <Upu> when Mitch stops making videos
[08:30] <arko> i've been thinking of making my own
[08:30] <arko> but i dont know if i will have enough time to do testing
[08:30] <Upu> Should do
[08:30] <Upu> If that works
[08:30] <arko> will your gps go above 60,000ft?
[08:30] <Upu> I might try one of those Argent Data frequency agile 2meter modules
[08:30] <Upu> yeah
[08:30] <Upu> ublox 6 so good for 50km
[08:31] <Upu> 163000 us units
[08:31] <Upu> US
[08:31] <Upu> very well tested
[08:36] <arko> oh yeah that!
[08:36] <arko> i remember reading about that
[08:36] <arko> nice
[08:36] <eroomde> isnt ublox 7 sampling soon?
[08:37] <Upu> Yeah should have it in December
[08:37] <Upu> oh wai...
[08:37] <arko> the downside with sampling is there could be bugs
[08:37] <eroomde> zackly
[08:37] <Upu> it'll get tested
[08:37] <arko> so probably wont be smart for flight
[08:37] <arko> yeah
[08:38] <Upu> I doubt there will be anything significant
[08:38] <arko> last time TI sent me a chip to test for them, i found like 3 bugs
[08:38] <Upu> the 6 has been rock solid
[08:38] <arko> turns out where critical bugs with their timer circuits
[08:38] <Upu> well apart from power saving but thats my implemetation I'm sure
[08:38] <arko> to be fair it was pre sampling
[08:38] <arko> hmm
[08:39] <Upu> I'll chase them on Monday
[08:39] <arko> nice
[08:39] <Upu> see if I can get a handful, I'll distribute them out if I can
[08:39] <Upu> Steve will have to have one
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[08:50] <Upu> morning jcoxon
[08:50] <jcoxon> morning
[08:57] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ice-antenna.jpg :D
[08:59] <x-f> jarod, that PlanePlotter + RTL1090 works great!
[08:59] <x-f> just downloaded, installed, hooked up and already some planes on my radar :)
[08:59] <jarod> made a dipole?
[09:00] <x-f> need to do that, i'm using the small supplied antenna
[09:02] <jarod> well coincidently thats not far off :-)
[09:04] <jarod> x-f: http://x264.nl/dump/planeplotter-record-distance.jpg
[09:05] <x-f> oh, cool
[09:06] <x-f> i won't show my radar, that has only one plane on it :)
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[09:09] <jarod> x-f :D
[09:09] <jarod> good place to live then
[09:12] <x-f> that, or a better antenna would show more - there were four planes earlier
[09:13] <x-f> but first some snow shoveling is required - view from the window this morning - http://i.imgur.com/2aMTY.jpg
[09:13] <jarod> well
[09:14] <jarod> try make a dipole then :)
[09:14] <x-f> i will, i saw pictures of yours, simple enough :)
[09:14] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ads-b-antenna-dipole1.jpg
[09:14] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ads-b-antenna-dipole2.jpg
[09:14] <jarod> yup :)
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[09:15] <Darkside> no matching whatsoever
[09:15] <Darkside> so thats not really a dipole
[09:15] <Darkside> irs more like a 1/4 wave with kind of a sounterpoise
[09:15] <Darkside> counterpoise*
[09:15] <Darkside> but not really
[09:15] <jarod> its a dipole
[09:16] <Darkside> jarod: bit it's not matched properly
[09:16] <Darkside> a dipole is a balanced device, you are connecting it directly to an umbalanced feedline
[09:16] <Darkside> therefore it won't be acting as a dipole very well
[09:16] <jarod> works fine: http://x264.nl/dump/planeplotter-record-distance.jpg
[09:16] <Darkside> you may as well make a 1/4 wave ground plane, that'll probably be more useful for ADS-B traffic
[09:16] <jarod> :P
[09:17] <Darkside> jarod: you're getting those distances because the planes are putting out 10-20W of power, and are in the air
[09:17] <jarod> yeah
[09:17] <jarod> + a shitty tuner (RTLSDR) its pretty amazing :)
[09:17] <Darkside> if you use a properly matched antenna, you're likelt to get better distances
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[09:17] <jarod> oh i so agree with that
[09:18] <Darkside> make a 1/4 wave monopole with a ground plane
[09:18] <jarod> but for instance compares to my discone, this "dipole" works awesome
[09:18] <Darkside> at least that'll be matched
[09:18] <Darkside> a commercial discone?
[09:18] <jarod> http://x264.nl/discone.jpg
[09:18] <Darkside> yes
[09:18] <Darkside> that wouldn't work >600MHz or so
[09:19] <jarod> well the specs say it does, but indeed you are right
[09:20] <jarod> monopole with a ground plane <-- easy to make? :)
[09:20] <Darkside> yes
[09:20] <Darkside> extremely
[09:20] <jarod> 1/4 wave = 6.88cm
[09:20] <Darkside> use a panelmount BNC socket
[09:20] <Darkside> solder a bit of wire to the centre conductor for the monopole part
[09:21] <Darkside> and 4 wires to the panel bit, for the ground plane
[09:21] <jarod> thise 4 wires, length?
[09:21] <jarod> those
[09:21] <Darkside> either 1/4 wave or longer
[09:21] <x-f> hmm.. i connected the 1/4 wave ground plane i made for 434 MHz - now i see five planes instead of only one
[09:21] <jarod> so basically what i got now? only add 4 wires instead of one going down?
[09:22] <Darkside> jarod: yep, pretty much
[09:22] <Darkside> as i said, extremely simple
[09:22] <Darkside> what coax are you using?
[09:22] <jarod> can i bend the cable? so i can tape it up?
[09:22] <Darkside> bend what cable?
[09:22] <jarod> instead of: ----
[09:22] <jarod> go like L___
[09:23] <Darkside> uh
[09:23] <Darkside> where?
[09:23] <Darkside> im not sure what you mean
[09:23] <jarod> and tape the | to the bnc connector?
[09:23] <Darkside> uhh
[09:23] <Darkside> i dunno
[09:23] <Darkside> ill find a pic o what i mean
[09:23] <jarod> i have no other options
[09:24] <jarod> why would a groundplane work better than a dipole for 1090mhz aircraft signals?
[09:24] <Darkside> well, A) it's matched
[09:24] <Darkside> or, better matched
[09:24] <jarod> this dipole is about 50OHM
[09:24] <Darkside> uhhh
[09:25] <Darkside> no, it'll be 300 ohm
[09:25] <Darkside> and unmatched.
[09:25] <jarod> no 50ohm because it's 1cm between the top and bottom
[09:25] <Darkside> well, maybe not 300 ohm, but it'll be a balanced device
[09:25] <Darkside> also, the radiation pattern of a 1/4 wave monopole will be more into the sky
[09:25] <jarod> and that makes it better, because?
[09:25] <jarod> ok
[09:25] <Darkside> a dipole has half its pattern facing into the ground
[09:25] <Darkside> which doesn't help you very much
[09:26] <jarod> agreed
[09:26] <jarod> what i meant with: L---
[09:26] <jarod> L___
[09:26] <jarod> i have a wire: 6.88cm, yes?
[09:27] <jarod> but i want to put 1cm vertical to the bnc plug and 6.88cm as the groundplane part
[09:27] <jarod> would that work?
[09:27] <jarod> so i bend it and tape it fixed :-)
[09:27] <Darkside> http://members.optushome.com.au/vk6ysf/vk6ysf/Images/GP435MHz_E.jpg
[09:27] <jarod> yes
[09:27] <jarod> see that bend?
[09:28] <Darkside> those wires need to be 90 degrees to the vertical bit
[09:28] <jarod> what if i make a 90 degrees bend
[09:28] <Darkside> or thereabouts
[09:28] <jarod> yes...
[09:28] <jarod> exactly
[09:28] <jarod> so if i make a 90 degrees bend
[09:28] <jarod> 1cm to the connector and 6.88 horizontal?
[09:29] <Darkside> uh
[09:29] <Darkside> no 1cm to the connector
[09:29] <jarod> i HAVE to... i make to make a bend... in order to tape it :-)
[09:29] <Darkside> it should be 6.88cm from the point on the BNC socket to the end
[09:29] <jarod> ok
[09:29] <Darkside> you don't
[09:29] <jarod> so anything stuck TO the bnc connector can be any length?
[09:30] <Darkside> from your pic, i can easily see how you could tape this to the pipe
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[09:30] <Darkside> i still have found a decent pic..
[09:30] <Darkside> hrm
[09:30] <jarod> yes 6.88cm wire: _________
[09:30] <jarod> cant tape that to |
[09:30] <jarod> but L____ i can tape to | .....|L____ get it?
[09:30] <Darkside> nope
[09:30] <Darkside> i'll draw what i mean
[09:30] <Darkside> hold on
[09:33] <Darkside> jarod: http://i.imgur.com/BvhbF.jpg
[09:33] <Darkside> you could tape the bnc plug to the pole
[09:33] <jarod> hmm they point 45 degrees downward?
[09:34] <Darkside> yeah, that would be best i guess
[09:34] <jarod> why?
[09:34] <Darkside> but 90 degrees to the vertical works too
[09:34] <Darkside> modifies the radiation pattern slightly
[09:34] <jarod> which is best?
[09:34] <Darkside> doesnt matter that much
[09:34] <Darkside> probably 45 deg tbh
[09:34] <jarod> ok
[09:34] <Darkside> brb
[09:34] <jarod> hang
[09:34] <jarod> so the 6.88cm the bend can be part of it?
[09:36] <Darkside> for the ground radials yeah
[09:36] <Darkside> for the vertical, no
[09:37] <jarod> yes ofcourse, we're talking verticals here
[09:37] <jarod> i still cant connect them like you drawn
[09:38] <Darkside> then get a BNC panel mount socket
[09:38] <jarod> i need to make it 1cm longer and make a nearly 90 degrees bend to tape it fixed
[09:38] <jarod> ya ya... dont have now :O
[09:38] <Darkside> tape the coax
[09:38] <Darkside> not the antenna element
[09:38] <jarod> huh?
[09:38] <jarod> i have
[09:38] <jarod> :
[09:39] <Darkside> whatever
[09:39] <jarod> female-n-connector both sides... to the i connect a n-connector-male TO BNC
[09:39] <Darkside> i;'d make one now to show you
[09:39] <Darkside> but i;m not home
[09:39] <jarod> inside the female-connector-n i put the vertical
[09:39] <jarod> on the sides i must tape the verticals :)
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[09:40] <jarod> but you said they could be a bit longer... so should work :P
[09:40] <Darkside> can't you make it so you can tape the adaptor or whatever to the pipe, and have the actual antenna *above* the pipe
[09:40] <Darkside> ok i have other things to do...
[09:43] <jarod> yes thats possible
[09:44] <jarod> but the verticals have to be taped to the adapter....
[09:44] <jarod> the pipe is fiberglas...
[10:01] <eroomde> the galileo probe dropped by jupiter today/yesterday in 1995
[10:01] <eroomde> dropped into, i should say
[10:01] <eroomde> and the juno probe is on the way back currently
[10:01] <eroomde> happy times
[10:02] <eroomde> our neighbours at J-site at westcott, Moog ISP, build the engine that is powering juno
[10:02] <gonzo_> also Apillo 17 was in trans-lunar flight this time 40yrs ago
[10:04] <eroomde> good time to be into this stuff
[10:05] <eroomde> am just glad i'm not 20 years older
[10:05] <eroomde> 1980-2000 was probably not the best time to be coming into the space industry looking to do really exciting things
[10:06] <eroomde> well, ignoring jpl going back to mars in the 90s
[10:07] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
[10:07] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[10:07] <jcoxon> you still up for tomorrow?
[10:07] <eroomde> aye!
[10:08] <jcoxon> excellent
[10:08] <eroomde> yes pleasen
[10:08] <jarod> Darkside
[10:08] <jarod> thanks !!
[10:09] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/ads-b-antenna-groundplane.jpg
[10:10] <Upu> you made an antenna out of crap :)
[10:11] <jarod> amen :)
[10:11] <eroomde> nice work :)
[10:11] <lz1dev> ~/fq 20
[10:11] <jarod> getting full signal on rtl1090 now... running planeplotter to record distances :)
[10:16] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/rtl1090-6th-purple-led.jpg <-- anyone got a clue what that purple led means? mouse over says U/S
[10:18] <jarod> The 6th LED lights up when there is an extraterrestrial aircraft code identified
[10:18] <jarod> or there are more than 120 packets/s from intraterrestrial codes
[10:18] <jarod> ah...
[10:19] <jarod> Darkside thanks mate! Freaking awesome this
[10:23] <Gadget-Mac> jarod: looks fun
[10:27] <arko> Neato
[10:28] <eroomde> arko: we were just talking about juno
[10:28] <eroomde> well, briefly
[10:28] <eroomde> how it's on the way back to jupiter right now, today being the aniversary of galileo dropping into jupiter
[10:31] <jarod> hmmm funny
[10:31] <jarod> seems the groundwave is working too well...
[10:32] <jarod> only strong signals means others get blocked?
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[10:36] <arko> Oh nice
[10:36] <fsphil> juno's website is all flash :(
[10:36] <arko> Juno was one of the fist missions i was apart of
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[10:36] <arko> Stupid flash
[10:37] <Gadget-Mac> jarod: are those ground plane elements really only held on with tape ?
[10:37] <arko> First*
[10:38] <jarod> Gadget-Mac yep
[10:38] <Gadget-Mac> Wow
[10:38] <arko> eroomde: smap is the next "big" one
[10:39] <arko> What most of us are working on
[10:39] <fsphil> aah Juno has two LiIon batteries
[10:39] <eroomde> not the japanese boy band presumably
[10:39] <arko> Funny thing is that it will be more useful to humanity than msl, but wont get much credit
[10:39] <fsphil> I forgot it was solar powered
[10:40] <fsphil> MSL is a bit like Steve Jobs then?
[10:40] <arko> Lol
[10:40] <fsphil> nah I take that back
[10:40] <arko> Smap is like bill gates
[10:40] <arko> Dont ruin msl's name like that
[10:40] <eroomde> earth obs and comms are really the big story in space
[10:40] <eroomde> that never gets told
[10:41] <fsphil> exactly. I'm sorry :)
[10:41] <arko> :p
[10:41] <fsphil> I'm looking forward to seeing what Juno shows
[10:41] <arko> eroomde amen brotha
[10:41] <arko> I cant wait for new horizon
[10:42] <arko> I rmember being a freshman in high school and visiting jpl the day of launch
[10:42] <arko> Lots of excitement that we finally get to see pluto
[10:42] <fsphil> yea, pluto is turning out to be much more interesting than anyone expected
[10:42] <arko> Then they killed puto
[10:42] <arko> Heh ya
[10:42] <fsphil> it may not be a planet, but it's still a fascinating place
[10:43] <arko> Yep
[10:43] <fsphil> I do wonder if they're being optimistic when they say they plan to visit other objects after pluto
[10:43] <arko> I met mike brown at a bookstore once
[10:43] <arko> Told him i didnt mind the pluto thing
[10:43] <fsphil> I like the name he's using on twitter
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[10:44] <arko> He's grined
[10:44] <arko> Oh yeah haha
[10:44] <arko> @plutokiller
[10:44] <arko> He*
[10:44] <arko> I cant spell at 3am
[10:45] <fsphil> ahh yes, time. time for breakfast
[10:45] <arko> Cant sleep because the meds i took reacted with my stomach and made me puke
[10:45] <arko> Yay!
[10:45] <fsphil> urg
[10:45] <arko> So im sitting here reading about derating electronic parta
[10:46] <arko> Parts
[10:46] <arko> Thug life
[10:48] <eroomde> happy days
[10:48] <Gadget-Mac> jarod: Lots of loss in getting from the dongle though ?
[10:48] <jarod> loss? compared to?
[10:49] <Gadget-Mac> Just thinking about the number of connectors in the RF path
[10:49] <Darkside> jarod: how much cable is between the antenna ans your dongle?
[10:49] <Darkside> and*
[10:49] <jarod> no idea... the coax runs outside
[10:49] <Darkside> and what kind of cable is it
[10:49] <jarod> couple of meters.... rg58
[10:49] <Darkside> mm
[10:49] <Gadget-Mac> I'd like to do similar with the dongle in a box with a RPi :)
[10:50] <Darkside> jarod: maybe you could use a usb extention lead, and put the dongle closer to the antenna
[10:50] <Darkside> that'd reduce the cable loss
[10:50] <jarod> ya.. but impossible
[10:50] <jarod> i am already glad this works so well
[10:51] <jarod> every plane on flghtradar24 i can see as well, around schiphol/amsterdam :)
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[10:51] <Gadget-Mac> Thats pretty cool :)
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[10:52] <jarod> do note... i am pretty high of the ground :P
[10:52] <jarod> i put it on 4x120cm fiberglas mast .... on my balcony.... on the top floor.... :P
[10:53] <Gadget-Mac> It all helps.
[10:55] <Darkside> the useful thing is the planes ADS-B transponders are quite high power
[10:55] <Darkside> and they are in the air when transmitting
[10:55] <Darkside> so you'll hear them almost all the way to the horizon
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[10:55] <Darkside> though path loss and cable loss will kick in at some point
[11:01] <cuddykid> hey Upu - is it possible to send those modified files my way? cheers
[11:01] <Gadget-Mac> cuddykid: Did you end up with a better layout ?
[11:02] <cuddykid> Gadget-Mac: yup - a lot better!
[11:02] <Gadget-Mac> Cool.
[11:07] <jarod> Darkside i am getting them to horizon it seems :)
[11:07] <Gadget-Mac> Time to get it higher up :)
[11:08] <fsphil> launch it on a balloon? :)
[11:08] <fsphil> every year I need to buy a new 4x mains extension cable for the christmas tree. I've no idea where they disappear to
[11:09] <fsphil> there is a hidden room in this house just full of extension cables and odd socks
[11:10] <lz1dev> it should explode at one point
[11:10] <lz1dev> overwhelming you with extention cables
[11:11] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: Kite might be a better bet
[11:11] <fsphil> PiKite
[11:11] <lz1dev> gps tag the new one
[11:12] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed, Pi in the Sky
[11:12] <fsphil> that's already been done
[11:12] <fsphil> PiFly
[11:12] <fsphil> SuperPi
[11:12] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed.
[11:13] <Gadget-Mac> Wifi connected ?
[11:13] <jarod> Darkside, using adsb (from the sdr# guys): http://x264.nl/dump/planeplotter-record-distance-adsb.jpg
[11:13] <jarod> still work in progress.... but look how far (left)
[11:13] <Darkside> uh huh
[11:14] <Gadget-Mac> At this rate we'll have a UKHAB equiv of flightrader
[11:15] <jarod> amazing how this stupid design works :P
[11:18] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed.
[11:18] <Gadget-Mac> Feel like having a go myself
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[11:19] <jarod> 6.88cm parts :)
[11:19] <jarod> i used electrical wire
[11:19] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed. Got some thick copper somewhere
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[11:32] <jarod> Gadget-Mac if/when you're done, make a photo please :D
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[11:37] <jcoxon> ping Upu
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[11:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Board"
[11:44] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[11:44] <RocketBoy> yo
[11:44] <RocketBoy> jcoxon
[11:45] <jcoxon> interesting about hte step up
[11:45] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FM6JCX-11&timerange=3600
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[11:46] <jcoxon> its my solar powered aprs board
[11:46] <RocketBoy> way cool - hovering over london ;-)
[11:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:47] <jcoxon> yeah i've faked that altitude
[11:47] <eroomde> http://www.ti.com/product/cc1110f32
[11:47] <jcoxon> so for the ltc3526 is that running at 1.8v?
[11:47] <eroomde> i am pushing tghis as everyone seems obsessed with building tiny lightweight trackers but still uses separate micros
[11:47] <jarod> Gadget-Mac: http://www.movl.net/blog/2009/03/my-homemade-2m-14-ground-plane-antenna/
[11:48] <jarod> getting such plug might be great :)
[11:48] <Darkside> eroomde: whats the setup stuff to program one of those?
[11:48] <eroomde> so this is the chip we used on badger2 and badgercub, and has an 8051 core inside
[11:48] <Darkside> eroomde: using one of those chips means *more* annoying QFN components though
[11:48] <RocketBoy> jcoxon - yep
[11:48] <eroomde> Darkside: stencil
[11:48] <eroomde> and it suddenly becomes completely not a problem
[11:48] <Darkside> you mean reflow
[11:48] <eroomde> yes
[11:48] <fsphil> 4kb of ram, not bad
[11:48] <eroomde> with a stencil
[11:49] <Darkside> eroomde: what is required to program one of these things
[11:49] <Darkside> what hardware
[11:49] <eroomde> it has a uart on it so it can connect directly to the gps
[11:49] <eroomde> i think we bought a programmer from ti for about $60
[11:49] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: 1.8v max6 rfm22b and pic18lf26k80
[11:49] <fsphil> just the one uart eroomde?
[11:49] <eroomde> but otherwise it's just an 8051 core for which loads of compilers are available
[11:49] <eroomde> fsphil: i think so yes
[11:49] <eroomde> and usb too
[11:50] <fsphil> ooh
[11:50] <eroomde> so you can probably do a bootloader
[11:50] <eroomde> or hatever
[11:50] <mattbrejza> eroomde: did you see my cc430 pico? thr same as tthat but msp430ncore
[11:50] <Darkside> eroomde: 10mW though, right?
[11:50] <eroomde> yeah
[11:50] <eroomde> not so good for aussies
[11:50] <eroomde> mattbrejza: i didn't
[11:50] <Darkside> we like our 300 baud data
[11:50] <eroomde> but cool that it exists
[11:50] <Darkside> apparently there is a higher powered one
[11:50] <fsphil> 300 baud at 10mw works fine ;)
[11:50] <Darkside> but according to keithp it doesn't do constant carrier mode
[11:50] <Darkside> so won't do RTTY
[11:50] <eroomde> basically there are loads if integrated rf chip with micros out there
[11:51] <eroomde> so people really can make a postage stamp sized 0.6mm thick pcb
[11:51] <eroomde> as a flight computer
[11:51] <Darkside> eroomde: you have seen mattbrejza's board, right?
[11:51] <eroomde> and then win whatever the competition is that peeps seem to be playing
[11:51] <fsphil> oh it does have two usarts
[11:51] <Darkside> his bosrd fits that description to a tee
[11:52] <eroomde> link me someone
[11:52] <Darkside> mattbrejza:
[11:52] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
[11:53] <Darkside> there wre drift issues with that though
[11:53] <mattbrejza> yea wasnt helped by my powervcycling though
[11:53] <eroomde> well the 3d printed case is cool but probably not as insulating as it could be for the mass
[11:54] <mattbrejza> it was then wrapped in foam, the case went in the neck of a 100g balloon
[11:55] <mattbrejza> but the xl was tiny which didnt help
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[11:55] <eroomde> mmm
[11:56] <eroomde> the xtals they grow at astrium for sats are quite impressive
[11:56] <eroomde> i remember thinking that was one of the more interesting things there
[11:56] <jcoxon> eroomde, i saw a tv show about crystals for sats
[11:56] <jcoxon> at surry it think
[11:56] <eroomde> they're many cm^3
[11:57] <jcoxon> yeah its not high te h
[11:57] <jcoxon> tech*
[11:57] <eroomde> just v big and stable
[11:58] <Darkside> btter to use more space than use power doign temp control i guess?
[12:00] <Gadget-Mac> jarod: interesting idea.
[12:00] <jarod> ask Darkside if that works
[12:00] <jarod> (maybe plug too big?)
[12:01] <Darkside> i wouldn't use a SO239 for anything >150MHz
[12:02] <Darkside> but you could do something similar on a BNC/N/SMA panel mount socket
[12:02] <jarod> thats what i thought
[12:02] <Darkside> like i suggested initially
[12:02] <jarod> yeah... any image of such device? :)
[12:02] <Darkside> uhh
[12:02] <Darkside> like whar you linked
[12:02] <Darkside> but smaller
[12:03] <Darkside> heh
[12:03] <Darkside> well, not smaller for a N socket
[12:03] <Darkside> but for a SMA socket it would be :P
[12:03] <Darkside> i don't think i have any panelmount SMa sockets floating around
[12:03] <Darkside> so i can't make one up to show you what i mean
[12:04] <Darkside> but it's the same idea as with the 2m one you linked
[12:04] <eroomde> hopeless robot
[12:04] <Darkside> haha
[12:04] <eroomde> we should take it out and shoot it
[12:04] <Darkside> take it out behind the chemical sheds
[12:04] <jarod> or just make it like i did.... like a professional :P
[12:04] <jarod> mcguyver would be proud
[12:04] <jcoxon> poor zeusbot
[12:05] <Darkside> jarod: yours won't last long in weather tho
[12:05] <jarod> lol, duh :P
[12:05] <jarod> needs more tape... then it will
[12:05] <jarod> and glue :P
[12:05] <Darkside> given how small the damn thing is you could put it in a small box
[12:05] <Darkside> or put a icecream container over the top of it
[12:06] <jarod> but the top peace is easy to replace
[12:06] <mattbrejza> use apc7, you know you want to (warning, stupid idea)
[12:06] <jarod> hehe ya :)
[12:06] <jarod> i have unlimited access to electrical wire..... :P
[12:06] <Darkside> but you'll end up corroding away the connectors
[12:06] <jarod> endless supply of those as well :)
[12:07] <jarod> but i keep it inside anyway
[12:07] <Darkside> hmm where the hell did my stock of SMA sockets go..
[12:07] <jarod> its on 4x120cm mast now, lol
[12:08] <jarod> luckily no wind now
[12:08] <jarod> yesterday it was storming :P
[12:08] <Darkside> oh yeah to anyone using SMA sockets - i can reccomend the DX special SMA pcb-mount sockets
[12:08] <Darkside> they work fine
[12:08] <Darkside> up to 2GHz anyway
[12:08] <Upu> ping jcoxon
[12:08] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FM6JCX-11&timerange=3600
[12:09] <Upu> hello Mr APRS :)
[12:09] <Darkside> jcoxon: i'm looking forward to seeing this in action
[12:09] <jcoxon> running off solar power
[12:09] <Darkside> because a solar pwoered APRS payload would be very useful for us
[12:09] <lz1dev> that altitude
[12:09] <lz1dev> is so fake :)
[12:09] <Upu> I must be doing something wrong mine won't even power up
[12:10] <jcoxon> well its a little fake
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[12:10] <jcoxon> but i wanted a realistic packet length
[12:10] <Upu> looks good
[12:11] <jcoxon> seems not to be missing packets
[12:11] <Darkside> jcoxon: how big are the panels?
[12:11] <jcoxon> its 1x 3.7v 100mA panel
[12:11] <jcoxon> let me find the link
[12:11] <Darkside> flexible?
[12:12] <Darkside> so you're charging up a cap or something?
[12:12] <jcoxon> this one
[12:12] <jcoxon> http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/264/powerfilm-mpt36150-100ma-36v-mini-solar-panel
[12:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[12:12] <Darkside> hows the gps being powered?
[12:12] <Darkside> or does it get lock each cycle
[12:12] <jcoxon> so panel -- diode --- supercap --- setup to 5v -- hx-1
[12:13] <jcoxon> so currently i'm running that off lithiums
[12:13] <Darkside> mm
[12:13] <jcoxon> but this is only the test of the actual hx-1 part
[12:14] <Darkside> well.. i know they work well :P
[12:14] <Darkside> well, they don't work very well on the ground.. but in the air they work fine
[12:14] <jcoxon> i mean the solar charging for them
[12:14] <Darkside> i think the deviation on them was a little bit off though
[12:14] <Darkside> ahh
[12:14] <Upu> so should be able to plug that straight into the HX1 board
[12:14] <jcoxon> we could easily run a gps and micro off lithiums
[12:15] <jcoxon> Darkside, well its more that aprs feature is like an add on
[12:15] <jcoxon> so we could use a pico payload and add aprs
[12:16] <Darkside> ahh right
[12:16] <Darkside> i'd more like to be able to do an APRS floater across australia
[12:16] <jcoxon> well we could add another panel
[12:16] <jcoxon> and do the rest easily
[12:16] <jcoxon> considering the panels are 3.1gr
[12:16] <Darkside> once i get some $$ i want to get some more pico boards made up and sdo more foil launches
[12:16] <Upu> sent yours away to be made yet ?
[12:16] <Darkside> its just that over here, a pico launch would work better with APRS Than with RTTY
[12:17] <Darkside> Upu: yep
[12:17] <Darkside> we don't have many listeners we can call on in the eastern states
[12:17] <jcoxon> Darkside, i'd love to help with that
[12:17] <Upu> got some of the fixed R7 boards on order
[12:17] <Darkside> so whats happened is terry is away for a few months
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[12:17] <Darkside> and since the NOTAMs are issues in his name, we can't do any big launches for a while
[12:18] <Darkside> and we still have a tank of gas sitting in a shed
[12:18] <Darkside> so i want to do some pico launches
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[12:18] <jcoxon> yay
[12:18] <Darkside> i just need bloody payloads to launch
[12:18] <Darkside> minus the bloody part
[12:18] <Darkside> but anyway
[12:18] <jcoxon> yeah that adds mass
[12:18] <Darkside> i've got my own pico boards on the way, which are basically the same as Upus
[12:19] <Darkside> but it'd be nice to do an ultralight APRS payload
[12:19] <Darkside> i just havent got the time to design or build anything atm
[12:19] <jcoxon> well i'll leave this running
[12:20] <Darkside> also dont really have the money for parts atm
[12:21] <jcoxon> the solar should work better at altitude
[12:21] <Darkside> jcoxon: also, the heat here is interesting for pico launches
[12:21] <Darkside> the last launch i did, i made the mistake of fillin ginside
[12:21] <Darkside> +10 degree temp difference between inside and outside
[12:21] <jcoxon> need to fill in garage/barn
[12:22] <Darkside> well theres also the sun factor
[12:22] <Darkside> it was 35 degrees that day
[12:22] <Darkside> and i had a green balloon
[12:22] <jcoxon> early morning perhaps?
[12:22] <Darkside> yeah maybe
[12:22] <jcoxon> or evening
[12:22] <jcoxon> the advantage of Oz will be its dry
[12:22] <Darkside> yep
[12:22] <Darkside> no clouds when i did that launch
[12:23] <jcoxon> e.g. last pico that went to sweden i suspect it got wet
[12:23] <jcoxon> and descended
[12:23] <Darkside> the problem we do have is the huge gaps in receive coverage for RTTY launches
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[12:23] <Darkside> especially for low flying pico launches
[12:23] <jcoxon> yeah aprs would be better suited
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[12:23] <Darkside> yep
[12:23] <Darkside> theres pretty good APRS coverage around here
[12:23] <jcoxon> what would you do at night?
[12:24] <Darkside> how do you mean?
[12:24] <jcoxon> well our solar powered setup won't work in the dark
[12:24] <Darkside> ahh yeah
[12:25] <Darkside> well i was thinking more fly a pico aprs payload which has a 2 day abttery life
[12:25] <jcoxon> and the supercaps can do about 3 packets without sun
[12:25] <Darkside> or just change the duty cycle
[12:25] <Darkside> only update every 5 or 10 minutes
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[12:26] <jcoxon> yeah
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[12:28] <Darkside> but yeah, aprs would be best
[12:28] <Darkside> sucks that the HX1 modules cost so bloody much
[12:28] <Upu> not from me Darkside
[12:28] <Darkside> its a lot of payload to throw away
[12:28] <Darkside> Upu: how much from you?
[12:30] <Upu> see shop
[12:31] <Darkside> mm
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[13:06] <jcoxon> getting a bit grey here, but still working :-)
[13:06] <eroomde> weatherwise?
[13:09] <jcoxon> oh i mean my solar setup
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[13:24] <eroomde> i just read an article which had a picture of bill bryson smoking a pipe but was written by a female prison warden who smaokes a pipe
[13:24] <eroomde> i spent a while wondering why such an article would be accompanied by a picture of bill bryson smoking a pipe
[13:25] <eroomde> turns out it is actually a photo of the female prison warden
[13:25] <eroomde> quite a thing
[13:26] <Darkside> heh
[13:26] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/virtual-radar-server-rtl1090.jpg
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[13:35] <x-f> jarod, i got plane 380 km far away!
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[13:35] <x-f> http://i.imgur.com/H70KO.jpg
[13:36] <x-f> i made my 1/4 wave groundplane antenna from the RG213 cable - centre core as the vertical part and shielding split into four radials, that i fixed in place with hot glue, so no soldering and no connectors there - http://i.imgur.com/ih0M9.jpg
[13:36] <x-f> don't know how good it really is, but - it works
[13:37] <Darkside> thats a good idea
[13:39] <jarod> x-f how long are those verticals?
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[13:39] <x-f> jarod, ~16 cm, i made it for 434 MHz
[13:40] <jarod> and works so well for 1090mhz? lol nice
[13:40] <jarod> maybe your house is a secret antenna :P
[13:40] <jarod> bloody sweet :)
[13:41] <x-f> i'd doubt that, can't recieve any planes east and south :)
[13:41] <jarod> weird then :P
[13:42] <jarod> seems to me, they time of day has to do with perfect reception also
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[14:04] <jarod> hmm Darkside
[14:04] <jarod> i was playing outside...
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[14:04] <jarod> seems when you move the antenna under an angle... you gets lots more, directional
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[14:06] <jarod> yup
[14:06] <jarod> getting planes from the UK now :P
[14:07] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/virtual-radar-server-rtl1090-directional-uk.jpg
[14:08] <jarod> the antenna is on my balcony now... below the roof....
[14:08] <jarod> so easy signals from the east/south :P
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[14:11] <jcoxon> jarod, next step is a directional antenna
[14:12] <jarod> well seems the groundplane can be.... just point at where you think a plane is :)
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[14:32] <jarod> Darkside http://x264.nl/dump/rtlsdr-ads-b-antenna.jpg :P
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[15:32] <fsphil> nice, the Juno mission has lego: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Juno_lego.jpg
[15:35] <jcoxon> hehe
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[15:39] <jcoxon> looks like sunlight has dropped now so my aprs setup isn't able to tx
[15:40] <fsphil> I'm still impressed that works at all
[15:41] <fsphil> do you think you'll be able to add gps to the mix?
[15:43] <jcoxon> not on a single solar panel
[15:45] <jcoxon> but maybe on a second panel
[15:45] <fsphil> what capacitors are you using?
[15:45] <fsphil> the ones I got have quite a low max voltage
[15:45] <fsphil> which I didn't notice until I had them
[15:46] <jcoxon> i'm using 2 x 2.5v 1F supercaps
[15:46] <jcoxon> in series
[15:46] <jcoxon> so we get 5v 0.5F
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[15:48] <fsphil> never thought of using two smaller ones. feel a bit stupid now
[15:49] <jcoxon> yeah its been 30mins since a packet
[15:51] <daveake> You /may/ need balancing resistors when using them in series
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[15:54] <number10> hi jcoxon will you possibly be launching a pico at christmas
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[15:58] <cuddykid> hm - can anyone shed light on what "stop mask" DRC errors mean in eagle?
[16:00] <jcoxon> number10, it might be next weekend
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[16:00] <cuddykid> and for the uBlox are the layers tRestrict and bRestrict?
[16:02] <number10> ah ok - jcoxon - its just that I dead bugged a pico so cant easily reprogram it so stuck with 434.300
[16:03] <jcoxon> number10, you up for launching?
[16:03] <number10> yes - but I am in the lake district - due home next friday
[16:03] <jcoxon> as in 13th?
[16:04] <number10> 14th driving back
[16:04] <jcoxon> okay
[16:04] <jcoxon> steve and i were thinking about something on 15th
[16:04] <jcoxon> depending on the weather of course
[16:05] <number10> snow on the mountains here
[16:05] <number10> I dont mind getting stuck up here :) ...are you launching pos saturday?
[16:05] <jcoxon> yeah possibly
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[16:09] <fsphil> woo, snow
[16:09] <fsphil> we need some here
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[16:14] <fsphil> daveake: how would that work? (the balancing resistor)
[16:15] <jcoxon> we aren't charging to full capacity
[16:15] <jcoxon> so shouldn't need balancing
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[16:20] <keithp> Darkside: it's packet only, and up to 256 bytes, so you have 2048 bits to play with. For the cc1111, debian has a packaged compiler, and altusmetrum has downloading tools that use (oddly) another cc1111 as a debug dongle and boot loader.
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[16:21] <number10> fsphil: sunrise on snowy grisedale pike this morning http://i.imgur.com/aZr1F.png
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[16:25] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/fKeth.png
[16:25] <cuddykid> almost done (hopefully)
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[16:29] <number10> wow everyone is doing there own pcbs - nice cuddykid
[16:29] <cuddykid> yeah - my 2nd, thanks to the help from Upu :)
[16:30] <cuddykid> this one is ~ 3x3.5cm
[16:32] <number10> thats pretty smal - do you have normal regulator or a stup up cuddykid ?
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[16:32] <cuddykid> number10: just linear reg
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[16:33] <zyp> what's going on with the lack of planes underneath the ublox?
[16:34] <cuddykid> zyp: shouldn't route anything under there according to datasheet
[16:34] <zyp> route anything is different from having planes there
[16:34] <cuddykid> and no planes either (from memory)
[16:35] <zyp> I find that very unlikely
[16:35] <cuddykid> might well be wrong
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[16:35] <cuddykid> I'll double check with Upu when he's back
[16:36] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[16:36] <zyp> I'll check the datasheet for you
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[16:38] <zyp> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/LEA-6_NEO-6_MAX-6_HardwareIntegrationManual_%28GPS.G6-HW-09007%29.pdf <- see page 44
[16:38] <cuddykid> cheers :)
[16:38] <zyp> also, page 43
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[16:38] <zyp> it recommends ground planes well stitched with vias
[16:39] <cuddykid> I'll get that sorted - thanks for pointing that out zyp
[16:45] <zyp> what's the chip in the upper right corner? i2c eeprom?
[16:45] <zyp> ah, no, it's an LDO?
[16:47] <cuddykid> v reg
[16:47] <zyp> yes
[16:48] <zyp> is there a reason you picked such a large crystal package for the avr?
[16:48] <cuddykid> zyp: Upu recommended it - no other reason
[16:49] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Board"
[16:50] <zyp> hmm, would you be interested in hearing what I would have done different on that board?
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[16:50] <cuddykid> zyp: yep - certainly :)
[16:51] <zyp> I would have moved the avr to the top layer, in the upper right corner, because the way it is sitting now it's creating a lot of back and forth routing of colliding traces
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[16:53] <zyp> I think that would result in a more connected ground plane
[16:53] <fsphil> that's great number10
[16:53] <cuddykid> zyp: yeah, you're right - the avr position isn't great
[16:55] <zyp> hmm, I was about to ask if I could have the design files, to try a few changes, but I just realized I have to leave for a dinner party about now :)
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[16:55] <zyp> so that'll have to wait for later
[16:55] <cuddykid> haha, have fun :)
[16:56] <zyp> I will :)
[16:56] <zyp> anyway, smaller crystal, avr to upper right corner, ldo underneath the antenna, or perhaps somewhere on the bottom side of the board
[16:57] <zyp> the trick is to group the signals between each component and avoid having the groups cross each other
[16:58] <zyp> and then place the components to avoid the groups crossing
[16:59] <fsphil> would it be silly of me to use spair GPIO pins for pointless LEDs?
[16:59] <zyp> since the mcu is the central component, everything is branching out from that
[16:59] <zyp> so try to get different groups on different sides of that
[17:01] <cuddykid> yep
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[17:17] <dharnke> hello upu
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[17:25] <Upu> hi DanielRichman
[17:25] <Upu> oops
[17:25] <Upu> hi dharnke
[17:25] <Upu> sorry Daniel
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[17:26] <dharnke> just wanted know, do you have spare time to help me with connecting my sdr receiver and ntx2
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[17:27] <Upu> well I need to go out shortly, have you got the NTX2 wired up ?
[17:28] <dharnke> yep
[17:28] <dharnke> it doesnt have to be today, if your free tomorrow?
[17:28] <Upu> is the SDR working ?
[17:28] <dharnke> yes
[17:29] <DanielRichman> Upu: np
[17:29] <Upu> so whats not working ?
[17:30] <dharnke> on the fldigi i do not get anything so as the sdr app, i do not get any signal from the ntx2
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[17:32] <dharnke> im using the ukhas e.g. for the ntx2 which is transmitting rtty
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:33] <Upu> ok do you see the transmission on the SDR ?
[17:33] <Upu> hi Lunar
[17:33] <dharnke> no
[17:34] <Upu> lets see your screen www.join.me
[17:34] <dharnke> ok
[17:34] <Upu> I have 10 mins
[17:37] <dharnke> 637912524
[17:37] <Upu> ok turn the nTX2 on
[17:38] <dharnke> its on
[17:38] <Upu> ok open SDR
[17:38] <Upu> which NTX2 is it ? 075 ?
[17:38] <dharnke> its 065
[17:39] <Upu> set center freq to 433,500,000
[17:39] <Upu> 433
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[17:40] <Upu> ok nothing there are you sure the NTX2 is on ?
[17:40] <dharnke> yep
[17:41] <Upu> ENable on the NTX2 needs to be connected to VCC
[17:41] <dharnke> it is
[17:42] <Upu> remove all the wiring apart from GND, VCC and EN together
[17:42] <Upu> should just get a carrier
[17:42] <Upu> single line on the water fall
[17:42] <dharnke> thats done
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[17:42] <Upu> got some car keys near by ? press the button
[17:43] <Upu> there
[17:43] <Upu> see that ?
[17:43] <dharnke> yep
[17:43] <Upu> possibly local ?
[17:43] <Upu> press the car keys
[17:43] <dharnke> i have not got with me,
[17:43] <dharnke> but probably from outside
[17:44] <Upu> that will check the radio is working
[17:44] <Upu> it looks right
[17:44] <Upu> dunno if you can hear anything else
[17:44] <Upu> got an antenna in the SDR ?
[17:44] <dharnke> yep
[17:45] <dharnke> thats good i guess
[17:45] <Upu> if it has an antenna
[17:45] <dharnke> so is it the EN wiring that was not good
[17:45] <Upu> you'd be able to see the NTX2 on there
[17:45] <Upu> if you provide power to VCC+EN and GND
[17:45] <Upu> you should get a single line on the waterfall
[17:46] <dharnke> understood
[17:46] <Upu> I have to go for a bit sorry
[17:46] <dharnke> no worries, cheers for your help
[17:47] <cuddykid> Upu: don't worry if you're busy, it can wait - when you get a chance - anything glaringly wrong with my routing? http://i.imgur.com/ZePV6.png
[17:48] <Gadget-Mac> cuddykid: Those via's under the uBlox arn't going to do anthing
[17:49] <cuddykid> Gadget-Mac: just connects up bottom & top ground planes as advised in data sheet
[17:49] <Gadget-Mac> Nope, see all the black space around them, no copper in there
[17:49] <cuddykid> Gadget-Mac: very true!
[17:49] <cuddykid> oops
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[18:51] <eroomde> god jesus
[18:51] <eroomde> reverse all the letters
[18:51] <eroomde> sounds like sausage dog
[18:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Board"
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[19:01] <Laurenceb__> god egasuas ekil sdnuos
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[19:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Bob McNair "[UKHAS] "
[19:27] <jonsowman> great ^
[19:29] <daveake> concise
[19:32] <cuddykid> very
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[19:54] <Laurenceb__> http://tl-wr703n.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/tl-wr703n-usb-hub-2.html
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[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hello all
[20:50] <jcoxon> evening Dan-K2VOL
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> hey james
[20:51] <jcoxon> hows tricks?
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> I just got back from a last minute visit to San Francisco California, a bunch of the french balloon scientists were there for a conference and I wanted to catch them while they were nearby for a visit
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> (nearby being relative)
[20:52] <jcoxon> success
[20:52] <jcoxon> ?
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> though it turned out to be as expensive to fly last minute there as it would have been to fly to france :-/ I did get critical questions answered and relationships built more
[20:53] <jcoxon> good good
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> JP Pommereau is a really nice guy, he's the one who invented the Montgolfiere InfraRed balloon
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> that can fly day and night with only air
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> no He
[20:54] <jcoxon> yes i remember him
[20:54] <jcoxon> from africa
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yeah! I'm glad he's the one you met, I think I saw pics this time of that mission
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[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> he showed me a few pics of an old launch, and there's one guy in them that's such a great character - I'll link
[20:59] <jcoxon> wanna see something cooler then the most recent K6RPT flight?
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> sure!
[21:00] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/171003_trj001.gif
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> http://imgur.com/a/PGk9d
[21:00] <cuddykid> now that would be good jcoxon
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> the guy in orange is jp, but the guy chain-smoking is my favorite
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> nice james!
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> I like your path!
[21:01] <jcoxon> 120hrs
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm impressed you got the web version to plot out that far!
[21:01] <jcoxon> so 120hrs with a latex?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[21:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hey kevin
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:03] <Dan-K2VOL> james did you catch my imgur link?
[21:04] <jcoxon> yes
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, YAY round the workd
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> *world
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> doing well, trying to develop automated ways to deal with thousands of badly OCRed balloon research PDFs
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> that was 1972, and that solar setup tracked the sun in two axes for 7 months and weighted just a few hundred grams!
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> superpressure I assume?
[21:05] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, and altitude control using an internal air ballonet
[21:05] <Dan-K2VOL> autonomously followed a parcel of air up and down and around for 7 months
[21:06] <cuddykid> very cool
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> so a lagrangian system
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[21:06] <Dan-K2VOL> something about following potential temperature gradients
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> does someone of you know Project DaVinci?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> that was an effort by Vera Simons to do such measurements with a manned balloon in the 1970s
[21:07] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:07] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be tedious
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> and with DaVinci Transamerica she then tried an north american crossing
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> but they were forced down by a thunderstorm in Ohio
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, yeah, like the pilot had to try to keep the balloon level and so on
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> and later they like had to calculate the influence of power plants on the trajectory, i.e. what plant contributes which pollution
[21:08] <Dan-K2VOL> the tedious part wouldn't be the level, but the changing altitudes to track the potential temperature change when the pressure remains constant
[21:09] <Dan-K2VOL> I am developing a huge spelling dictionary of balloon terms which should be useful
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:10] <Dan-K2VOL> I am terrible at websites, I need to figure out a good way to get all this info out there
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:22] Nick change: UPu2 -> Upu
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[21:30] <cuddykid> Upu: if you're around - whenever you have a mo, could you send me the updated files, for some reason dropbox hasn't synced it up.. it's not showing you as a shared folder participant either, which is odd as I received the email saying you had joined
[21:30] <Upu> what about now ?
[21:30] <cuddykid> cheers
[21:30] <cuddykid> sorted :)
[21:35] <fsphil> that's a heck of a path jcoxon -- does that happen often?
[21:40] <jcoxon> well more often at this time of year
[21:41] <jcoxon> the advantage would be that if you flew in the northern hemisphere at high latitudes you'd get minimal UV
[21:41] <jdtanner> Evening chaps.
[21:41] <Upu> evening
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello everyone
[21:42] <Upu> yeah that path needs an Iridium
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> 1 hour and 18 minutes until I turn 23
[21:42] <jdtanner> http://api.ning.com/files/4284gURM7Nj74TYql5IA5G*npm*K32ZT6i*qDZCPfSJTY*EVq5SakMy4Z0eZoaOR2eHlGvlRDACDeTZXr5bZSg__/helloeverybody300x288.png
[21:42] <jcoxon> HF
[21:42] <jdtanner> (sorry)
[21:43] <Upu> happy birthday in advance Lunar_Lander
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:45] <daveake> 3 days later and you'd have been born on the 27th anniversary of Apollo 17's lunar landing
[21:45] <daveake> Bad timing there :p
[21:47] <jdtanner> Maybe a daft question, but does anyone have/know of an Eagle library which includes the Arduino Pro Mini?
[21:50] <Upu> that
[21:50] <fsphil> happy birthday kev!
[21:50] <Upu> might just have large Arduino bits in
[21:50] <jdtanner> Cheers
[21:51] <jdtanner> Eagle is melting my brain
[21:51] <fsphil> it does that
[21:51] <cuddykid> Upu: it is the _tsilk layer where text should be?
[21:52] <cuddykid> jdtanner: eagle has caused me hours and hours of pain!
[21:52] <cuddykid> I think I'm about there (finally) with a huge thanks to Upu
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[21:52] <Upu> no tSilk means put a layer of solder on a pad here
[21:53] <cuddykid> ah oops
[21:53] <cuddykid> glad I checked that one!
[21:53] <Upu> you want tPlace for top layer
[21:53] <Upu> bPlace for bottom
[21:53] <Upu> use vector
[21:53] <cuddykid> brill, thanks
[21:54] <Upu> > 0.8 if you want to be able to read it
[21:54] <cuddykid> yep
[21:55] <eroomde> i put my silkscreen on _tsilk. but I don't touch it when making parts in libraries. I just use it to make the silkscreen for the board
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[22:26] <m0psi> hi all, looking for Steve Aerospace? what's his IRC name?
[22:28] <m0psi> actually, just found out what i wanted, which is balloon neck diameter
[22:28] <m0psi> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk:
[22:34] <m0psi> thanks
[22:34] <m0psi> for some reason i thought that was Adam
[22:35] <m0psi> but makes more sense to be steve
[22:35] <x-f> he is, Steve is RocketBoy
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> doh
[22:36] Action: SpeedEvil is still asleep
[22:36] <m0psi> ok that makes sense
[22:37] <m0psi> x-f, what is your name?
[22:37] <m0psi> ditto speedevil
[22:37] Action: x-f is Kristaps.
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> ian
[22:37] <m0psi> :-) I'm Ali
[22:38] <x-f> hi, and good night, Ali, Ian
[22:38] <m0psi> nn
[22:38] <fsphil> my nick leaves little imagination
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:38] <m0psi> got your number Phil :-)
[22:38] <fsphil> crap, my secret identity is out
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[22:51] <jdtanner> Just checked those Eagle files, they don;t have the Pro Mini. I have found sch and brd files for the Pro Mini, but I'm not 100% sure how to use them yet :)
[22:52] Nick change: russss_ -> russss
[22:54] <jdtanner> They are here for those who are interested :) http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Dev/Arduino/Boards/Arduino-Pro-Mini-v13.zip
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[23:16] <JimAM> I wanted to make a range finder, which takes a laser beam, splits it into a line, and measures various points of the reflected line to see the distance to those points, so I could build a 3d map, does anyone have any ideas how I can sample different points
[23:17] <JimAM> at first I was thinking a ccd or cmos sensor, but the response time wont be fast enough
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[23:18] <JimAM> so then I was thinking an array of photodiodes, but I'm not convinced I could isolate the points on the line, esp when sampling at a high enough rate like 1msps
[23:19] <m0psi> so, did you think of phase modulating the line?
[23:19] <m0psi> how did you think to do the 'slplitting' into the line?
[23:20] <m0psi> what about the field of view (in terms of angle) is it wide?
[23:20] <m0psi> what resolution where you thinking of?
[23:20] <JimAM> it's a coherent signal, so apart from the slight deviation in phase caused by time of flight the sections of the line would not be phased differently
[23:20] <m0psi> (along the line)
[23:21] <m0psi> i meant that you could deliberately phase encode, along the line
[23:21] <JimAM> along the length of the line? I'm not sure how you could do that?
[23:22] <m0psi> isn't a prism going to delay the wave in a phase sensitive maner?
[23:22] <m0psi> and split the incoming at the same time
[23:22] <JimAM> yeah you might be on to something there
[23:23] <JimAM> but over such a short distance
[23:23] <m0psi> (patent idea :-) )
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> JimAM: use a servo to wiggle your laser ranger
[23:23] <m0psi> right, so that is why i was asking about resolution/distance etc
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> JimAM: or use a galvonometer
[23:23] <m0psi> i was trying to think of a non-mechanical way
[23:23] <JimAM> plan was to mount it to a uav, so speed probably approx 40mph, a servo wouldn't be fast enough
[23:23] <JimAM> range maybe 500ft
[23:24] <m0psi> oh
[23:24] <m0psi> so, lambda is way off for resolution
[23:24] <m0psi> so, a time of flight thing then
[23:24] <JimAM> time of flight plus phase shift I think
[23:24] <m0psi> how about coding a stream of pulses
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[23:25] <m0psi> phase is overkill at that distance
[23:25] <m0psi> tof will be ok, but need a good clock
[23:25] <JimAM> without it, I only have a resolution of approx 30cm @ 1msps
[23:25] <m0psi> and super fast shutter
[23:25] <JimAM> which is a lot of samples
[23:25] <m0psi> LCD?
[23:26] <JimAM> for the optical sensing?
[23:26] <m0psi> lcd for shutter
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=190474938095&index=0&nav=SEARCH&nid=06028250799
[23:26] <m0psi> gets you a a non-mechanical switch
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> galvonometer
[23:26] <JimAM> I'll just switch the supply to the laser, at least that was the plan
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> plenty fast enough
[23:26] <m0psi> LED laser?
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[23:27] <JimAM> yes
[23:27] <m0psi> you want the edge to be clean
[23:27] <m0psi> you can test that
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> err
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[23:27] <m0psi> on a scope, with the detector
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> are you sure you doesn't drop some Zeros?
[23:27] <m0psi> you'll know soon enough
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> 30cm =1ns
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> or 1gs/s
[23:28] <m0psi> is 30cm ok for you?
[23:28] <JimAM> so I have more like 3m accuracy, it's mental I don't know how these small off the shelf units have such high accuracy
[23:29] <m0psi> you want? or you have 3m accuracy?
[23:30] <m0psi> ok,lets start again; the problem is 2 parts (at least): A- range accuracy, B- multiple points
[23:30] <JimAM> 1msps turns out to be 300m/s using pulses
[23:30] <JimAM> sorry, metres accuracy
[23:31] <m0psi> imsps = ?
[23:31] <m0psi> ah
[23:31] <m0psi> 1ms per sec ?
[23:31] <m0psi> confused. sorry
[23:31] <JimAM> million samples per second
[23:31] <m0psi> ok
[23:31] <m0psi> for the sensor?
[23:31] <JimAM> yeah
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[23:32] <m0psi> so, y, 300 meters
[23:32] <m0psi> no good then, right?
[23:33] <JimAM> I'd probably have to sample at 10msps and then encode a modulation with a wavelength of 30m to get any decent accuracy
[23:33] <m0psi> y
[23:33] <JimAM> and what kind of optical sensor can switch that quickly
[23:33] <m0psi> using the detector, as is, is not going to be enough
[23:34] <m0psi> that is what i meant about lcd
[23:34] <m0psi> it is essentially a shutter
[23:34] <m0psi> either for out or in
[23:34] <m0psi> polarising switch
[23:34] <m0psi> this is what is used in optical labs
[23:35] <JimAM> I think I can just directly switch the laser though, so no need for lcd?
[23:35] <m0psi> none the less, you still need to get the pulse in the pico second
[23:35] <JimAM> unless they need some sort of charge pump?
[23:35] <m0psi> right
[23:36] <m0psi> that is what i meant about looking at its spec
[23:36] <m0psi> there could be a lag time
[23:36] <JimAM> plus there's doppler since I'm moving
[23:36] <m0psi> oh
[23:36] <JimAM> only just considered that
[23:36] <m0psi> here we go :-)
[23:36] <m0psi> now it all comes out
[23:36] <m0psi> on an asteroid?
[23:37] <JimAM> no on a uav
[23:37] <m0psi> towards a black hole, right? :-)
[23:37] <m0psi> how fast is the uav?
[23:37] <JimAM> hey, it's a real effect, could affect phase measurement
[23:37] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Board"
[23:38] <m0psi> y, you get doppler effect on hab stuff
[23:38] <JimAM> 40mph, the reason I bring it up, my options for encoding the signal are PWM or variable frequency modulation
[23:38] <JimAM> I don't see pwm working because if I sample out of sync I miss the start or end of the pulse
[23:39] <m0psi> freq is obviously going to get messy with motion
[23:39] <m0psi> unless you can correct, with gps speeed data
[23:40] <JimAM> so if I use a variable modulation, I can say I transmitted @ 500mhz @ time x but with doppler it might actually read as 499.8 mhz?
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> ...
[23:40] <JimAM> or it may be really negligable like 499.9999998
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> compute the speed at which you need to go to be that far out
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> narrowband optical filters also help
[23:41] <m0psi> hmmm
[23:42] <m0psi> is there such a thing, akin to SDR for optics?
[23:42] <JimAM> so you think the prism will phase shift the beam enough from the point of transmission to be detectable?
[23:42] <m0psi> so, you get the spectrum, and pick out what you want?
[23:42] <m0psi> i don't know Jim, but worth looking at that. what colour is your laser?
[23:43] <m0psi> you'll get more on IR
[23:43] <m0psi> than green
[23:43] <JimAM> I was going to choose green :)
[23:43] <m0psi> or UV
[23:43] <m0psi> ir is bigger refraction
[23:43] <JimAM> problem is, the sun emits ir and uv
[23:43] <m0psi> ok, but if encoded, no prob
[23:44] <JimAM> hmm
[23:44] <m0psi> btw, sun also gives green :-)
[23:45] <JimAM> clearly the sun is yellow ;)
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[23:45] <m0psi> well, you have an interesting on Jim. good luck. I've got to do some work now :-)
[23:45] <m0psi> on == one
[23:46] <JimAM> thanks for your input its given me a few ideas :)
[23:46] <m0psi> i'd like to hear how it goes
[23:46] <m0psi> sure thing
[23:46] <m0psi> good luck
[23:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Board"
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[23:53] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] Free Sugru x5"
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[00:00] --- Sun Dec 9 2012