highaltitude.log.20121204

[00:01] <lz1dev> too bad its not open source
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[00:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi nigelvh
[00:02] <nigelvh> Yes, I even have an apple developer account so I could do that crap. But I'm too lazy to make the whole thing.
[00:02] <nigelvh> Howdy KT5TK_QRL
[00:02] <nayr> yeah it'd be great if it was open, its a nice lil app
[00:02] <KT5TK_QRL> Have you seen PecanPico?
[00:02] <KT5TK_QRL> http://imgur.com/nJUjK
[00:02] <nigelvh> I have not seen that! That looks great!
[00:02] <KT5TK_QRL> A bit shorter than the old Pecan Nut
[00:03] <nigelvh> Just a board redesign to be smaller and fix errors, or did you pull out functionality?
[00:03] <KT5TK_QRL> http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/download/PecanPico/
[00:04] <KT5TK_QRL> No amp, boost regulators
[00:04] <astrodog> Someone have a link to that trans-atlantic thing that's going now? Lost power. :(
[00:04] <KT5TK_QRL> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=7&call=a%2FK6RPT-12&timerange=172800
[00:04] <astrodog> Thanks.
[00:04] <nigelvh> Still got the spot for the uSD socket?
[00:05] <KT5TK_QRL> nope. no SD
[00:05] <astrodog> Looks like they're still having the telemetry issue.
[00:05] <KT5TK_QRL> But if you want more RF output I'm at this project: http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/download/PecanTurbo/
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[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigelMoby and everyone eslse
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> else
[00:06] <natrium42> hello kvein
[00:06] <natrium42> err
[00:06] <natrium42> kevin
[00:06] <nigelvh> So you're ditching the 7012 eh?
[00:07] <KT5TK_QRL> No, PecanTurbo is just an amplifier
[00:07] <nigelvh> Ah, output?
[00:08] <KT5TK_QRL> datasheet says 4 W, but I don't trust it
[00:08] <nigelvh> Hmm
[00:08] <KT5TK_QRL> 2 stage PA
[00:08] <nigelvh> That looks familiar. I may have looked at this part at some point.
[00:09] <KT5TK_QRL> RF6886 is like $9 at digikey
[00:09] <nigelvh> In any case, that's pretty cool. I've got a similar idea using my 250mW output currently, and getting about 10W out.
[00:10] <nigelvh> But, so far I've been pretty pleased with the 250-300mW I'm getting presently.
[00:10] <nayr> argent has some 5w radios
[00:11] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm sure the plain 25mW are fine. Just for Transatlantic flights I'd like more
[00:11] <Darkside> nayr: bloody expensive ones
[00:11] <nayr> $150 aint bad
[00:11] <nigelvh> Yes, my 1/4w transmitter has a cost of about $50
[00:12] <nigelvh> And generates packets from serial GPS input internally
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[00:12] <nigelvh> Also much smaller and lighter.
[00:12] <nigelvh> Not to say there aren't limitations
[00:13] <nayr> yeah but if you want some power there's isint a bad option
[00:13] <nigelvh> Well, you can get a 5W handheld for cheaper than that
[00:13] <nayr> but for a baloon your proabibly gona build everything in house for weight
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[00:15] <nigelvh> Also, I think an amp to get 10W would cost less than $25, so existing 1/4w transmitter with GPS parsing/packet generating capability + amp would come to about $75
[00:15] <nigelvh> (Guestimates
[00:15] <nigelvh> )
[00:16] <nigelvh> I also have to give KT5TK_QRL a lot of credit for the support and answering my questions.
[00:16] <nigelvh> It's my first home-made transmitter, so I'm a trifle proud.
[00:17] <nigelvh> Done lots of other boards, but always just added a radio module to it in the past.
[00:17] <nayr> yeah ive only ever used modules
[00:18] <nayr> for my purposed I need 2-way so dont want an amp
[00:18] <nayr> and im low altitude so the extra power will be nice
[00:19] <nigelvh> You can design the amp for two way, but yes, I (and my schematic) only care about one way
[00:21] <KT5TK_QRL> PecanPico is really just a testing board for the RF6886 chip. I believe the power is low enough hat you may use silicon to do the transmit/receive switching
[00:21] <nayr> id like to design something specific for my needs but so much other work needs done id rather slap off the shelf modules together for now until things mature then readdress the issue
[00:21] <KT5TK_QRL> The PA can be enabled/disabled from a micro though
[00:22] <nigelvh> yeah
[00:22] <KT5TK_QRL> It has forward & reflected measurement outputs integrated in the chip
[00:23] <KT5TK_QRL> for SWR
[00:23] <nigelvh> In my next revision I've made extra care to be able to turn off the PA while not transmitting, it draws a good bit of power idle.
[00:23] <nayr> thats cool
[00:23] <nigelvh> That is cool KT5TK_QRL
[00:23] <KT5TK_QRL> See the RF6886 datasheet
[00:24] <nigelvh> Did you end up experimenting with replacing that resistor like I mentioned to see if your existing circuit could measure the RF?
[00:24] <KT5TK_QRL> I didn't try because all my classical Pecans are gone
[00:24] <nigelvh> Ah
[00:24] <KT5TK_QRL> I'd have to build one more board
[00:27] <nigelvh> Yeah, I've only built one of mine. I'll build one of the next revision and give one to a friend who isn't deeply in the project so he can critique the assembly/using it from a fresh perspective.
[00:29] <KT5TK_QRL> Building projects together is real fun. Here is our last Pecan Roast: http://tkrahn.dyndns.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=7269
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[00:30] <KT5TK_QRL> I think you've met Andy & Tom
[00:30] <nigelvh> Your site doesn't appear to be very fond of loading...
[00:31] <nayr> was baout to say the same
[00:31] <nayr> we killed your databse
[00:31] <nayr> An error has occurred while interacting with the database.
[00:31] <KT5TK_QRL> It's the PC in my home office
[00:32] <KT5TK_QRL> hmm, works for me
[00:33] <nigelvh> The gallery loads, that link fails
[00:33] <DagoRed> question.... when will it stop being picked up by repeaters? http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FK6RPT-12&timerange=3600
[00:33] <nigelvh> DagoRed: When repeaters stop hearing it.
[00:34] <KT5TK_QRL> When the last digi comes outside the outer circle
[00:34] <KT5TK_QRL> (blue circle on aprs.fi)
[00:34] <nayr> when it gets past that station in St Johns
[00:34] <nayr> gott azoom out to see the range
[00:34] <DagoRed> Yeah... damn. So it has a bit yet.
[00:35] <nigelvh> KT5TK_QRL, now the link works for some reason....
[00:35] <KT5TK_QRL> Blame Microsoft ;)
[00:35] <nigelvh> And yes, I'm terrible with names, but I recognize Andy and Tom
[00:36] <nayr> which one is that your building?
[00:36] <nayr> pico or turbo?
[00:36] <nigelvh> nut
[00:37] <nigelvh> The original
[00:37] <nayr> ah
[00:37] <nigelvh> Anyway, it's home time for me now. I'll chat with y'all later.
[00:37] <nayr> i may have to build one of those for my UAV
[00:40] <KT5TK_QRL> Good, VO1BIL just igated a packet from K6RPT-12. Therefore we may have updates for a few more hours
[00:41] <nayr> excellent
[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:59] <russss> VO1BIL is a bit of a legend
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[01:05] <russss> seriously bad path, apparently.
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[01:08] <craag> Yeah, you're not supposed to use digipeaters when airborne just because you can it so many of them anyway. But it's going x-atlantic where there are few or no digipeaters in range, so can be forgiven really.
[01:08] <craag> *hit so many of them
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[01:23] <nayr> would be best to avoid it though over most of continent and switch it on as it aproaches atlantic
[01:24] <astrodog> Can their setup do that?
[01:24] <nayr> proabibly not
[01:24] <nayr> thus forgivness
[01:24] <nayr> wouldent be too hard to pull off in code
[01:25] <nayr> just guess based off longitude
[01:25] <astrodog> So far... it looks like it's following the GFS prediction. NOGAPS has it doing the same thing.
[01:26] <nayr> yeah UK should be next landfall I am guessing
[01:27] <nayr> if not it'll skim just south
[01:28] <astrodog> I'll give it one last run when VO1BIL loses it.
[01:29] <astrodog> Looks like the telemetry problem settled down a bit.
[01:29] <nayr> yeah its been beaving better as of late
[01:30] <astrodog> I think it's the altitude thing. It's right at the top of the range its been flying in when it loses it.
[01:31] <nayr> would make sence, pushing the limits of its gps
[01:33] <astrodog> It's acting like an overflow somewhere in their code, but hopefully, it'll stay well behaved.
[01:34] <nayr> hard to debug that from the ground
[01:39] <astrodog> Hopefully, it's well behaved when it gets picked back up.
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[02:14] <meatmanek> how long is K6RPT-12 expected to float?
[02:15] <Darkside> as long as it floats
[02:18] <russss> last time it landed in the Mediterranean
[02:19] <astrodog> It should push quite a bit further south... then rise back up to the north as it gets closer to the UK, but we won't be able to track it going back north.
[02:19] <russss> heh, it's heading straight over the north atlantic flight lanes
[02:20] <Darkside> .. at a much higher altitude
[02:20] <russss> true
[02:20] <nayr> some aliens might unwittingly hit it
[02:20] <russss> I am not implying it's a hazard
[02:20] <nayr> i hear that happens with baloons
[02:21] <astrodog> You know, if it did manage to hit something... that'd be the end of this particular hobby. :\
[02:21] <Darkside> nayr: like, i'm not saying it's aliens, but....
[02:21] <Darkside> aliens
[02:22] <nayr> the odds are astranomical
[02:22] <nayr> more likely iran would shoot it down
[02:22] <astrodog> nayr: That would also be a notable end.
[02:23] <nayr> Japan bombing mainland US with baloons and didnt manage to do anything and that was on purpose
[02:23] <nayr> we do have GPS now but still
[02:23] <astrodog> Eh, I'm hoping for Iran shootdown now.
[02:23] <nayr> that would be interesting
[02:24] <nayr> showing it off on TV like they did the UAV
[02:24] <nayr> look what we can do
[02:24] <astrodog> Ha.
[02:24] <astrodog> Not sure there'd be anything to show off.
[02:25] <nayr> the'd make there own then ;)
[02:25] <nayr> big ass blimp with a cartoon of mohamed on it
[02:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Ever wanted to know why the Mayan calendar ended in 2012? -- An Amateur balloon over Iran caused a world war ;)
[02:26] <nayr> mayan calendar was the first aprs node
[02:26] <nayr> thats some high latency
[02:26] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.w5acm.net/b32.html
[02:27] <nayr> hah
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[02:28] <KT5TK_QRL> Note the callsign will be N0D
[02:28] <nayr> thats most aproprate, nice touch
[02:38] <nayr> v0b1l has some nice sensitivity..
[02:38] <nayr> wonder how far it'd get w/a directional pointed at it now
[02:40] <Darkside> probably a little bit over the radio horizon
[02:40] <Darkside> depending on ducting conditions
[02:40] <nayr> ~450 miles
[02:41] <nayr> is my rough head calculation
[02:41] <nayr> of horizon @ 100k ft
[02:41] <Darkside> sounds about right
[02:42] <nayr> is that the blue circle?
[02:42] <Darkside> eys
[02:42] <nayr> al cool
[02:43] <nayr> ah
[02:43] <nayr> mebe v01bii has a directional on it now.. he's still hitting it
[02:47] <astrodog> Might be gone now.
[02:47] <nayr> yeah 5m
[02:48] <nayr> might give it lil more, given how infrequently it transmits.. v0b1l might be looking for it
[02:49] <nayr> but thats pretty impressive he kept it nearly to horizon
[02:52] <nayr> 5 missed transmissions now, proabibly wont hear from it for a while
[02:52] <nayr> and as I say that
[02:52] <nayr> lol
[02:52] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[02:52] <nayr> he got that last one
[02:53] <nayr> v0b1l is good
[02:53] <nayr> bil
[02:54] <KT5TK_QRL> Bets are open on which country will hear him first?
[02:55] <K9ILU> Azores..
[02:55] <nayr> yeah
[02:55] <nayr> they got stations there
[02:55] <K9ILU> in about 6 hours
[02:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Azores may be still in the game, but then?
[02:56] <astrodog> Wow.
[02:56] <nayr> ireland or france if it kicks back up north like expected
[02:57] <astrodog> Could also be N Spain, if the exit from the trough is further east.
[02:57] <KT5TK_QRL> OK, some more posits from VO1BIL
[02:58] <astrodog> Yeesh.
[02:58] <nayr> V01BIL has a good lock on it still
[02:59] <nayr> but he's gona loose LOS soon
[02:59] <K9ILU> You need to remember he does not have all the other aprs traffic to fight with.
[03:00] <nayr> its slowing down a lil bit, 134mph
[03:01] <nayr> was doing nearly 200 for a good while
[03:01] <nayr> or over
[03:03] <K9ILU> It keeps drifting south. How long before it should start drifting back north?
[03:04] <astrodog> Quite a bit.
[03:11] <astrodog> Still having the telemetry mess.
[03:14] <K9ILU> v01bt came to life....says he has antenna over 1000feet
[03:15] <astrodog> Yeesh. How far is that going to cover?
[03:16] <K9ILU> should be atleast another 30 miles
[03:26] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[03:27] <K9ILU> I don't like the fact it is going higher...
[03:28] <astrodog> Shouldn't it decend now, or?
[03:30] <nayr> 1k - 110k feet the horizon is 514miles
[03:31] <arko> wow that transatlantic balloon is cray cray
[03:32] <astrodog> It's had weird telemetry problems for awhile now.
[03:33] <nayr> if it dont get enough sat locks it wont have a 3D fix
[03:33] <nayr> and then altitude just becomes a guess
[03:33] <astrodog> nayr: I don't think that's what this is. It's not just altitude.
[03:34] <astrodog> It's also missing 2D location by a huge margin.
[03:34] <nayr> mebe gps resetting and having to reaquire fixes?
[03:34] <nayr> depending on when a packet goes out
[03:34] <nayr> might be wanky
[03:35] <nayr> not even have a 2D fix yet
[03:35] <astrodog> It *looks* like they might be overflowing a variable. It's always when the balloon is a bit high.
[03:35] <nayr> like something shoulda been longint? heh
[03:35] <astrodog> Something like that.
[03:36] <nayr> it was at 109k feet the last time it went
[03:36] <nayr> adn then came back at 113
[03:36] <nayr> so that was some altitude gain
[03:36] <nayr> inbetween
[03:36] <arko> is the person runing that hab here?
[03:37] <astrodog> nayr: If it's an overflow... it would have had to spike to 115 or so in the middle.
[03:37] <astrodog> arko: Nope... we're all speculating. *grin*
[03:37] <nayr> needa figure out the max reported so far
[03:37] <arko> i assume it's you?
[03:37] <nayr> see if its divisble by 32 heh :)
[03:38] <nayr> i dont think i seen any 114k
[03:38] <nayr> >
[03:38] <astrodog> nayr: Yeah. There's a hard ceiling, that the ballon *should* have broken a few times.
[03:39] <astrodog> Yeesh. Go VO1BT-1.
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[03:39] <nayr> thats a hell of a station
[03:39] <nayr> bravo to the operator
[03:39] <astrodog> 1,200 feet, something like that?
[03:40] <nayr> could be on a moutain side or smthn
[03:40] <nayr> dunno newfounlands terrain, its all flat
[03:40] <nayr> on gmaps
[03:40] <nayr> heh
[03:40] <astrodog> Anyone tried using a tethered balloon to track this kind of thing?
[03:40] <astrodog> (Or, another HAB?)
[03:40] <nayr> tha'd be pretty simple
[03:40] <nayr> but need 2-way
[03:41] <arko> how will they keep tracking when it's in the middle of ocean?
[03:41] <astrodog> They won't.
[03:41] <arko> oh fun
[03:41] <astrodog> It comes down to prediction, then.
[03:41] <nayr> launch a bunch of em
[03:41] <nayr> every few hours apart
[03:41] <nayr> link continents w/aprs
[03:41] <arko> will europe pick it up?
[03:41] <arko> also, isn't aprs illigal for air in eu?
[03:41] <astrodog> We should see it pop back up around France or the UK... maybe Spain, if the trough is to the east.
[03:42] <astrodog> arko: Dunno.
[03:42] <arko> oh well
[03:43] <arko> till interesting
[03:43] <arko> still*
[03:43] <astrodog> arko: Not that it matters on the recieving end of things.
[03:43] <arko> all done with finals now, time to get some chicken
[03:43] <arko> astrodog: ic
[03:43] <astrodog> VO1BT-1 must be right at the horizon now.
[03:43] <nayr> if not a lil past
[03:45] <nayr> wish I could see RSSI
[03:55] <astrodog> 4 minutes... think we're done?
[04:00] <nayr> he went 10 before
[04:00] <nayr> and found it
[04:01] <nayr> and nothing.. mm, yeah perhaps..
[04:01] <nayr> nothing by 16m id call it out of range
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[04:01] <nayr> tha'd be 8 missed transmissions
[04:16] <heathkid> I'm simply amazed!
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[04:32] <astrodog> It should be making its turn to the north in the next 90 minutes or so.
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[04:34] <astrodog> http://imgur.com/ln0hR
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[05:47] <nayr> 4-5 hours you think til Azores might find it?
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[05:48] <nayr> or its gona miss it entirely by your image
[05:50] <astrodog> That image is the recorded track... predicted has it turning north about now.
[05:50] <astrodog> Well.. ENE, anyway.
[05:51] Nick change: Mission-Critical -> MissionCritical
[05:52] <x-f> from the twitter feed i recon they think it should be in the range of Azores in an hour or so
[05:52] <x-f> morning, guys
[05:52] <astrodog> An hour? Wow.
[05:53] <astrodog> Is anyone listening there?
[05:53] <x-f> http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/275800707687391232
[05:53] <x-f> he is their forecaster, as i understand
[05:54] <astrodog> Huh.
[05:54] <astrodog> It looked like NOGAPS and GFS were doing alright.
[05:55] <astrodog> Is anyone on the Azores listening for it?
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[05:59] <x-f> CU2ARA in Azores picked it up last year, no information if he's been contacted this year too
[06:00] <x-f> ah, that's an organization, not a single person
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[06:13] <x-f> ok, i've sent an email to Azores.
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[06:23] <nayr> i saw some stations online in Azores earlier
[06:23] <nayr> yeah there on
[06:24] <nayr> CU7ARA
[06:30] <x-f> cool, then we hopefully will know, when it gets there
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[06:48] <x-f> balloon has slowed down, but hasn't descended for the night - http://x-f.lv/x-files/pics/k6rpt-12.png
[06:48] <x-f> that is a bit unusual
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[06:55] <radim_OM2AMR> maybe hwoyee balloon factor :-)
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[06:57] <x-f> seems plausible :)
[06:58] <radim_OM2AMR> they are using hwoyee, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5QUGMAgkVg
[06:58] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
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[07:00] <jcoxon> morning
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[07:03] <KF7FER> morning for you guys on the right side of the world... here on the US left coast it's a bit less than morning :-)
[07:05] <arko> morning
[07:05] <KF7FER> keeping an eye out for K6RPT-12 anyone?
[07:05] <arko> from la it's well into the night
[07:06] <KF7FER> arko: I would have thought it fairly early for the LA crowd
[07:06] <arko> it's 11pm here
[07:06] <arko> my brain thinks it's 3 am
[07:07] <KF7FER> heh. I'm in Oregon, so same here but I thought that was early for the fancy folk from LA...
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[07:07] <arko> nah we PST all up in this
[07:07] <natrium42> :)
[07:07] <jcoxon> K6RPT is going to swing further south i think
[07:08] <KF7FER> I could have sworn I saw on TV that the fun never stops in cal-eye-forn-eye-aye
[07:08] <KF7FER> K6RPT sure flew across the US... no pun intended
[07:10] <KF7FER> long night - stopped for a dorkbot meeting and was forced to drink beer for over 3 hrs.... the horror
[07:15] <Upu> morning
[07:15] <oh7lzb> Got inspired by K6RPT-12 last night and built a TNC-X kit. It received a good bunch of packets from two ISS passes overnight.
[07:15] <jcoxon> oh7lzb, nice!
[07:15] <Upu> aww its going South again
[07:15] <Upu> no fair
[07:15] <oh7lzb> Too bad my scientific balloon path prediction is going to fail and the TNC-X won't do much good on 144.390. :)
[07:16] <jcoxon> oh7lzb, :-)
[07:16] <oh7lzb> The upside is that now I'm motivated to do a nicer ISS page than http://ariss.net/ for aprs.fi.
[07:17] <jcoxon> oh7lzb, i quite like the simplicity of that page though
[07:17] <oh7lzb> Yeah. I was thinking of going to the other extreme - there will be some downsides to that. :)
[07:18] <jcoxon> oh7lzb, i nearly got a balloon to you
[07:18] <jcoxon> made it to sweden!
[07:18] <oh7lzb> Oh, when?
[07:18] <jcoxon> couple of weeks ago
[07:18] <oh7lzb> Wow, cool.
[07:22] <jcoxon> next time we send one your way i'll give you a heads up
[07:22] <jcoxon> possibly will have aprs onboard
[07:24] <Upu> I applied for a NoV jcoxon
[07:24] <Upu> they are considering it
[07:25] <jcoxon> what grounds?
[07:26] <Upu> geofencing is complex for small µC's and there is a disparity between the UK and the rest of the world with regards to the use of amateur equipment in the air
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[07:28] <jcoxon> oh right
[07:28] <jcoxon> but what would it allow you to do
[07:28] <Upu> oh
[07:28] <Upu> use APRS airborne in the UK
[07:29] <Upu> I know its limited benefits but its about time someone started pointing out the law is dumb
[07:29] <arko> thats a stupid law indeed
[07:30] <arko> anarchy in the uk!
[07:30] <KF7FER> oh7lzb sorry I'm a bit late, but isn't the TNC-X a nice kit? was fun and easy to build and it just works
[07:31] <oh7lzb> Yeah, pretty nice. Bought a couple of kits from the man at DCC in September.
[07:32] <jcoxon> what freq should we be listening to?
[07:32] <oh7lzb> I'm having some trouble with the USB, it doesn't enumerate right all the time and doesn't come up with the serial device in Linux every time I plug it in. Could be a bad port on the host, though - will need to debug a bit more tonight.
[07:33] <KF7FER> oh7lzb: I've actually built 3 of them and have never had a problem with the USB interface but then again I am using windows
[07:34] <KF7FER> I've had great support when any problems arise so I'm sure you'll get it sorted out
[07:34] <oh7lzb> The transmitted audio sounds muddy, I'm not sure if that's due to the receiver being close and getting saturated somehow, or some pre-emphasis issue (there are no jumpers to adjust that)
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[07:35] <KF7FER> so are you having problems decoding packets?
[07:35] <oh7lzb> KF7FER: Yeah, John Hansen was really nice in person
[07:35] <oh7lzb> No, it seems to decode fine!
[07:36] <KF7FER> I do my APRS tracker testing with the transmitter pretty close to my receiver (tho the antenna is 20' away) and I never have any issues
[07:36] <KF7FER> but I am only using 300mW on the transmission side
[07:36] <oh7lzb> The serial device just doesn't come up every time I plug the USB cable in, will have to test with other computers tonight to see if it's just the port on the old Linux box.
[07:37] <oh7lzb> Transmit audio just sounds very bass-heavy to my ear.
[07:40] <KF7FER> I don't have a very good feel for packet noise... seems to vary quite a bit but still decodes
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[07:40] <oh7lzb> http://aprs.fi/img/stats-aprs-viewers-weekly.png - nice visitor peak.
[07:41] <KF7FER> Upu: so I know one of the big advantages in the US of APRS is the infrastructure (for tracking HAB payloads). Does the UK have a similar infrastructure to use?
[07:42] <Upu> it has one Brad just not quite as extensive
[07:42] <Upu> To run a digirepeater here you have to have a notice of variation to your license I believe
[07:42] <oh7lzb> CPU use has peaked at 175% instead of the usual 120%. 8 cores, so 800% is where it'd max out. :)
[07:42] <Upu> as they don't like unattended TX
[07:42] <KF7FER> probably the US should do that same ;-)
[07:43] <Upu> I might be wrong
[07:43] <x-f> oh7lzb, do you know, how long do i have to wait to get to the aprs.fi again, after i've got a message saying "There are too many connections from your internet address"?
[07:43] <Upu> Just run testing one of the 1.8V boards with a linear regulator on, 13 hours so far on 2 x AAA
[07:43] <oh7lzb> France is worse, they don't allow any sort of radio interconnection, even RX only. :)
[07:43] <oh7lzb> x-f: That depends. How did you get there?
[07:44] <oh7lzb> And what's your address?
[07:44] <x-f> oh7lzb, i refreshed the raw page a few times, my ip is 212.93.98.119
[07:45] <x-f> raw log*
[07:45] <KF7FER> I hate the mime types warning
[07:45] <fsphil> nobody likes mimes
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[07:45] <oh7lzb> The UK APRS infrastructure is not too extensive, but when you're floating out to elsewhere in the europe, it's pretty good in many countries
[07:45] <oh7lzb> x-f "a few times"? :)
[07:46] <KF7FER> don't need much infrastructure at +50k feet
[07:46] <KF7FER> sorry to mention imperial units in a clean metric environment
[07:46] <fsphil> I'd trust the 434mhz network we have over the aprs one any day
[07:47] <oh7lzb> x-f: Did you try to download stuff from the raw packets with a script?
[07:47] <fsphil> well, except maybe at 5am on a sunday morning
[07:47] <x-f> oh7lzb, yes, sort of
[07:47] <oh7lzb> x-f: Ok, then you got what you deserved. It's an user interface, not an API, so don't. :)
[07:48] <oh7lzb> Go for the raw packets from the APRS-IS instead, please. It's not that hard after all, just telnet to port 14580 and say "user xf pass -1 filter b/K6RPT-12" and they will start flowing your way.
[07:48] <x-f> oh7lzb, i know, i found the API page later :/
[07:49] <oh7lzb> It figured it was a bot / script and kicked you out. It's a sliding window of 86400 seconds so it'll start working again about 24 hours after you stop trying.
[07:50] <x-f> ok then, thank you and sorry for the trouble
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[07:50] <oh7lzb> The site has a large number of generated pages, and all sorts of crawlers used to generate the majority of server load, so I had to do something to that.
[07:50] <oh7lzb> No worries, no trouble caused at all. :)
[07:52] <KF7FER> fsphil: Just to see a mime get a bit of love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z0Y6Tpg4Tk.
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[07:54] <oh7lzb> It can generate an almost unlimited amount of different pages, and some crawlers & bots tend to not honor robots.txt & rel=nofollow attributes, so a rate limiter was needed. It's designed to catch bots and scripts based on their behaviour, and it's quite hard to trigger it by manually hitting reload on your browser.
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[07:57] <KF7FER> So I know that some (many?) people use SDR... has anyone tried http://ae9rb.com/?
[07:57] <KF7FER> the Peaberry SDR
[07:59] <KF7FER> I guess it's a bit different because it's an HF transceiver and doesn't have much use on 2m
[08:02] <mfa298> Upu: I've got a feeling there's some note about aprs at the back of the license but that might only apply yo full licenses.
[08:03] <mfa298> Half of what I remember for the NoV is from the packet days
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[08:17] <oh7lzb> x-f: The API cannot give you the raw packets, it only provides the (sometimes badly filtered) decoded positions, so in case of the CNSP flight, you'll want to do "telnet rotate.aprs2.net 14580" and say "user blaablaa pass -1 filter b/K6RPT-12" <enter>. You'll get them much quicker than by polling, and in an efficient manner.
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[08:21] <x-f> oh7lzb, i'm looking into it now
[08:25] <x-f> oh7lzb, where do i register for the user and password?
[08:33] <x-f> mm, nevermind, got it
[08:34] <oh7lzb> For APRS-IS, you can receive data without a passcode, just use pass -1
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[08:34] <oh7lzb> on the aprs.fi API, it's on your user account page
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[08:40] <x-f> thanks, i'm getting something
[08:41] <x-f> when all else fails, rtfm comes to the rescue
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[08:45] <fsphil> looks like this flight will be a bit too far south for the UK
[08:54] <oh7lzb> x-f, here's how the API compares to the raw packets download on the server side:
[08:54] <oh7lzb> Dec 3 16:35:53 10.242.42.124 main: [212.93.98.119] [anon] INFO: raw 'K6RPT-12' limit 1000 first '' last '' took 0.178 s (main 0.178 s)
[08:55] <oh7lzb> Dec 4 10:53:53 10.242.42.123 api: [77.75.187.10] [uid/M0UPU] INFO: json get loc ok (0.002 s): name: K6RPT-12
[08:56] <oh7lzb> There's a slight processing overhead of rendering 1000 packets on the user interface (it should be optimized to be quicker at some point)
[08:57] <fsphil> fancy adding image support? :)
[08:57] <oh7lzb> 0.002 seconds for Upu's script getting the position for the spacenear.us tracker. :)
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[08:58] <oh7lzb> fsphil, that'd be very cool indeed, but I'm not sure if I want to encourage people do that on regular basis on 144.800 :)
[08:58] <oh7lzb> or whatever frequency they use normally...
[08:58] <fsphil> haha, yea this is my worry
[08:59] <fsphil> it really would depend on where it's being done too - here no problem, but a big city would be different
[08:59] <oh7lzb> yeah, and what altitude & what digipeater path
[08:59] <oh7lzb> Might be inconsistent to do that and try to act as the network congestion educator at the same time :)
[09:00] <oh7lzb> I've done ssh over ip over ax.25 on 144.800 to a hard-to-reach linux-based digipeater myself :)
[09:01] <oh7lzb> but just *once* in the middle of Finland, so no-one noticed...
[09:01] <fsphil> I did that here once, just to see how it worked
[09:01] <fsphil> surprisingly well actually
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[09:02] <x-f> oh7lzb, i should have been more careful yesterday - i inconsiderately left "1000" while i was testing, it would become a more sensible number in "production" and be requested 1-3 times per hour, while K6RPT is airborne
[09:03] <oh7lzb> It doesn't matter much if a single guy does that once or twice, but if everyone sent pictures or did ssh on a regular basis...
[09:05] <oh7lzb> I avoided obtaining access to a chain of keys to get in to the hospital, going through a closed section of the hospital (mental...), and crawling to the other end of the dusty attic to fix the digi_ned config.
[09:05] <fsphil> I setup an IRC server on 2m once, it worked well too
[09:05] <fsphil> not 144.800
[09:06] <oh7lzb> Yeah, tried that too. A bit more chatty than conversd, but could be tuned down a bit.
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[09:16] Nick change: hextic -> George_Soros
[09:22] Nick change: George_Soros -> hextic
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[09:34] <WillDuckworth> Hey Upu - how did the weekend go? (i've been away and out of interweb contact)
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[09:50] <nosebleedkt_> goodmorning !
[09:51] <fsphil> mornin
[09:51] <nosebleedkt_> hextic, why ex George_soros ?
[09:52] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil, do u know that trick with 2 radios and 1 ant?
[09:57] <fsphil> a diplexer?
[09:59] <fsphil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/spears_flight/
[09:59] <fsphil> some dodgy looking blokes in that story
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[10:04] <hibby> diplexer or duplexer?
[10:04] <hibby> whetever you do, don't try to build your own cavity duplexer from scratch...
[10:05] <hibby> the maths is evil and the accuracy required is astounding.
[10:05] <fsphil> they do look cool though
[10:05] <hibby> gnarly as hell. Huge losses, thogh
[10:05] <hibby> we've got 4x40W radios being duplexed to 10W final...
[10:06] <hibby> diplexers, however, are much more simple
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[10:06] <fsphil> what's our plan nosebleedkt_?
[10:06] <fsphil> your*
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[10:08] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil,
[10:08] <nosebleedkt_> my new board got 2 radios
[10:08] <nosebleedkt_> 144.8mhz & 433mhz
[10:09] <nosebleedkt_> wanna join those RF traces to 1 antetnna
[10:09] <hibby> as long as you filter properly, it's not too difficult.
[10:09] <nosebleedkt_> one friend told what hibby said.. that the design must be very careful
[10:10] <hibby> it might add a chunk of weight, though, depending on components
[10:10] <hibby> there'll be quite a few inductors.
[10:10] <nosebleedkt_> isn't on the internet some ready schematic ?
[10:10] <nosebleedkt_> and just draw it?
[10:11] <mattbrejza> copy: http://www.projectswift.co.uk/2012/04/20/diplexor/
[10:11] <hibby> tidy
[10:12] <nosebleedkt_> mattbrejza, that required 2 antennas? where is the output antenna ?
[10:12] <hibby> nosebleedkt_: that's two inputs
[10:12] <hibby> and one antenna port at the centre of the board
[10:12] <nosebleedkt_> yeah but i didnt say i need that
[10:13] <hibby> ... yes you did
[10:13] <hibby> 10:08 < nosebleedkt_> my new board got 2 radios
[10:13] <nosebleedkt_> two input RF traces will join to 1 output antenna connector
[10:13] <hibby> 10:08 < nosebleedkt_> 144.8mhz & 433mhz
[10:13] <hibby> 10:09 < nosebleedkt_> wanna join those RF traces to 1 antetnna
[10:13] <hibby> well... design it so you can solder in a connector.
[10:14] <nosebleedkt_> those 2 SMAs get their input by antennas...
[10:14] <nosebleedkt_> i won't have such a thing
[10:14] <nosebleedkt_> instead i'll have two radio rf output traces
[10:14] <mattbrejza> a SMA is just a 50ohm connector...
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[10:14] <nosebleedkt_> joining to a unique trace
[10:15] <mattbrejza> so a connection between two sma connectors is just a 50ohm trace that you can split
[10:15] <nosebleedkt_> and that trace will go to a SMA connector as output
[10:15] <hibby> the two sma connectors there are from radios
[10:15] Action: hibby blinks
[10:15] <hibby> nosebleedkt_: no one is going to feed you the design. That is an example of what someone else has done... Draw from the design and do it yourself.
[10:15] <nosebleedkt_> i don't know rf designing :D
[10:16] <hibby> but you don't have to
[10:16] <nosebleedkt_> i do some noob pcb boards but with very limited knowledge
[10:16] <hibby> what we're saying is remove the input SMA connectors and have atrace instead...
[10:16] <nosebleedkt_> hibby, yeah
[10:16] <nosebleedkt_> got it
[10:16] <hibby> and add an sma at the bottom instead of a solder point for the antenna.
[10:16] <nosebleedkt_> but how am I supposed to design that thing ?
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[10:16] <nosebleedkt_> if i dont have the sch?
[10:16] <hibby> define: design
[10:17] <hibby> ask the swift guys for the schematic
[10:17] Action: hibby sees design as the mathematical description of the circuit...
[10:17] <hibby> so you'd design it using standard passive filter calculations, and superposition at the convergance point...
[10:17] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind the bottom layer will be all gnd you can just look at tehe pcb, even all the components are labelled
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[10:21] <nosebleedkt_> need to talk to Darkside
[10:21] <nosebleedkt_> he seems to have created that
[10:21] <nosebleedkt_> does he have his own website for his projects?
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[10:28] <Darkside> nosebleedkt_:
[10:28] <nosebleedkt_> oh
[10:28] <nosebleedkt_> there he is !
[10:28] <Darkside> get a pcb from upu
[10:28] <Darkside> that'll be easiest
[10:28] <nosebleedkt_> Darkside, can i have the pcb design ?
[10:28] <Darkside> its made in altium designer
[10:28] <nosebleedkt_> Darkside, cool
[10:28] <nosebleedkt_> i can work it
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> i wont use your board straight like this
[10:29] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/project-horus/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fduplexer-pcb
[10:29] <Darkside> the orientation of the components is important
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> i will embedde it in my pcb
[10:29] <Darkside> and the spacing
[10:29] <Darkside> you need to be careful with coupling between the inductors
[10:30] <Darkside> but thats the design, you can work it out from there
[10:30] <nosebleedkt_> oh
[10:30] <nosebleedkt_> cool
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[10:30] <mattbrejza> does that tool do RF analysis or is it just a fancier program than eagle?
[10:31] <nosebleedkt_> I will tell my pro friend to work it
[10:31] <Darkside> altium is a full EDA suite
[10:31] <Darkside> does heaps of FPGA stuff
[10:31] <Darkside> the pcb design part is perhaps 1/2 of the total functionality
[10:31] <Darkside> but it does it really wel
[10:31] <mattbrejza> seems odd to have a combined fpga/pcb tool
[10:31] <Darkside> i use it because much of the electronics industry here uses it
[10:31] <Darkside> and it's incredibly powerful
[10:31] <mattbrejza> i havnt heard of its use in fpga
[10:32] <Darkside> i dont know how common that use it
[10:32] <Darkside> but all the big electronics companies around here use altium for pcb design
[10:32] <Darkside> also does nice 3d design stuff, so you can design boards to fit in certain cases and such
[10:32] <Darkside> i find its interface a bit more straightforward than eagle
[10:32] <Darkside> anyway, personal preference
[10:33] <Darkside> it costs a shitloads of money
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> Darkside, thanks
[10:33] <Darkside> which is why most hobbyists dont use it
[10:33] <Darkside> nosebleedkt_: no probs
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> Darkside, that will help a lot
[10:33] <mattbrejza> oh ok, eagle is fine but the 3d stuff seems useful
[10:33] <Darkside> hmm dont have a screenshot
[10:33] <mattbrejza> yea id assumed that
[10:33] <Darkside> i designed the hamamp board to fit within a certain hammond box
[10:34] <mattbrejza> and probably has a 'export to 3D model' button rather than having to recreate your board in solidworks
[10:34] <Darkside> yes
[10:34] <Darkside> it can export a STEP model
[10:34] <Darkside> which is really goddamn useful
[10:35] <Darkside> i got one of the workshop techs to make a 3d printed box to fit around a pcb of mine using that
[10:35] <mattbrejza> is the layout of that board just to stop inductors messing with each other or are you using a specific length of microstrip as a component in the filter?
[10:35] <Darkside> its just so stop the inductors messing with each other
[10:35] <Darkside> its just 50 ohm microstrip, so length doesnt matter that much
[10:35] <Darkside> and tbh given the entire thign is a pretty small percentage of the signal wavelength, it doesnt matter that much anyway
[10:36] <Darkside> but the inductor coupling does matter
[10:36] <mattbrejza> yea, ive seen various matching circuits that use certian lengths of microstrip, was wonderign if you had done that
[10:36] <Darkside> nah
[10:37] <mattbrejza> but i hadnt seen it on a filter design before, so assumed probably not
[10:37] <Darkside> i have seen stub matching and stuff
[10:37] <Darkside> but i haven't done it yet
[10:37] <radim_OM2AMR> Darkside, have you any suggested antenna for diplexer ? I have one diplexer from Upu :-)
[10:37] <Darkside> this design was just based off the duplexer used in the arrow antennas
[10:37] <Darkside> radim_OM2AMR: we use a Comet SMA-24
[10:37] <Darkside> but i dunno how easy those are to get
[10:38] <Darkside> basically any flexible handheld whip antenna with a SMA socket
[10:38] <mattbrejza> hmm stub is a new one
[10:38] <Darkside> dual-band antenna*
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[10:39] <radim_OM2AMR> thanks, I have to check my dual-band antennas with VNA
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[10:43] <cuddykid> ah, I love these CNSP flights
[10:43] <cuddykid> how are they getting them to float so well?
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[10:47] Nick change: earthshine_ -> earthshine
[10:49] <daveake> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/spears_flight/
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[10:51] <radim_OM2AMR> :-D the first photo is amazing
[10:51] <daveake> I have a hot glue gun and I'm not afraid to use it
[10:52] <cuddykid> haha :D
[10:52] <cuddykid> daveake: it certainly looks like mission control back at your house
[10:52] <daveake> :)
[10:53] <daveake> He needed a wider angle lens to get all the screens into view
[10:53] <cuddykid> brilliant
[10:53] Action: fsphil doesn't have monitor envy at all
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[10:55] <RocketBoy> so did the igniter fire?
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[10:55] <fsphil> nobody knows
[10:55] <daveake> AFAIK the igniter board didn't send that status
[10:55] <cuddykid> a shame it wasn't retrieved
[10:56] <daveake> I'll suggest that next time we put an SSDV tracker there to watch it
[10:56] <RocketBoy> simple continuity would have given a 99% certain idea
[10:57] <daveake> Indeed. AFAIK that board didn't check that.
[10:57] <daveake> The rtty from that one was screwed anyway
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[10:57] <RocketBoy> and why does it take 1.9Kg and 8 AAs to fire an igniter
[10:58] <cuddykid> lol
[10:58] <daveake> I'm only responsible for 300g of Iridum tracker; ask Neil :D
[10:58] <gb73d> Hi, is the transatlatic floater still alive ?
[10:58] <cuddykid> we believe so gb73d
[10:58] <cuddykid> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FK6RPT-12&timerange=604800
[10:58] <fsphil> it's not been heard for a while, but it should be
[10:58] <gb73d> ty
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[10:58] <fsphil> shouldn't be too far from spain now
[10:59] <gb73d> i am monit 144.390 NFM
[10:59] <cuddykid> is it just using a standard hwoyee/kaymont with ballast control?
[11:00] <RocketBoy> dave - whats the bath mat for?
[11:00] <daveake> lol
[11:00] <daveake> I asked that too
[11:01] <daveake> Not entirely sure
[11:01] <RocketBoy> do they know what they are doing?
[11:01] <daveake> What do you think? :B
[11:01] <RocketBoy> when it comes to firing rocket engines at altitude
[11:01] <daveake> I've kept well away (on both senses) from that side.
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[11:03] <daveake> They asked for a launch site for this test, so I did that and provided a tracker, plus chased the thing to the sea.
[11:03] <RocketBoy> yeah - I sort of decided not to use anything pyrotechnic round balloons filled with hydrogen
[11:03] <daveake> Sensible
[11:03] <RocketBoy> I have had a couple of pyrotechnic cut downs fire when they shoundn't
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[11:06] <RocketBoy> humm - no news from K6RPT - should have been in range of the Azores by niow
[11:06] <RocketBoy> now
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[11:07] <gb73d> bbl
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[11:08] <Najed> hi all
[11:09] <Najed> Darkside
[11:09] <Najed> Costyn
[11:15] <UpuWork> ping RocketBoy 16 hours run time on the linear boad with 2 x AAA
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[11:15] <UpuWork> @1.8V
[11:15] <UpuWork> Well nearly 17
[11:15] <RocketBoy> ha - just writing an email on the same subject
[11:16] <UpuWork> it just died
[11:16] <RocketBoy> I ran the 1.8V setup with the Ti linear reg and a pair of AAAs - got at least 13.5 hours - It might have been a lot longer but I don't know exactly as dl-fldigi crashed :-(
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[11:17] <UpuWork> I think the step up seems to be a little more efficient
[11:17] <RocketBoy> thats euqivelent to 21hours on a single AA
[11:17] <RocketBoy> or 42 on a pair
[11:17] <daveake> not bad at all
[11:17] <UpuWork> Ok just heard back from the Captain of the Confidante
[11:17] <UpuWork> nothing seen
[11:18] <mattbrejza> is this just a 1.8V gps and power saving?
[11:18] <daveake> :(
[11:18] <UpuWork> no power saving
[11:18] <RocketBoy> (yep)
[11:18] <RocketBoy> the TPS61200 is not that good on efficency
[11:18] <fsphil> was worth asking
[11:18] <mattbrejza> i probably should have seen how long my one would have lasted (it had gps power saving)
[11:19] <RocketBoy> no power saving
[11:19] <mattbrejza> yea i tried to find one better than the tps but nothing
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[11:19] <RocketBoy> Im now playing with an LTC3526 - did you look at that?
[11:19] <UpuWork> well I got 27.5 hours from the same board with a TPS61200
[11:19] <cuddykid> can someone cast a brief look over http://i.imgur.com/aDX2f.png just to see if there are any glaring errors before I set about rerouting for the millionth time lol :D thanks
[11:20] <UpuWork> however the one I'm using dies at 2.8v in so possibly that
[11:20] <mattbrejza> potentially, i would have looked at linears stuff
[11:20] <UpuWork> cuddykid crystal needs to be closer to the µC
[11:21] <cuddykid> thought that might be an issue, I'll get it moved - thanks UpuWork
[11:21] <Darkside> mattbrejza: you got power saving working?
[11:21] <mattbrejza> i probably didnt use the 3526 part due to its higher Vin min, but i didnt keep records of this
[11:21] <mattbrejza> yep
[11:22] <Darkside> suuuuuure?
[11:22] <Darkside> i'm sure UpuWork would like to converse about that
[11:22] <mattbrejza> yea i measured current, and it only gives data every 10s when in power save mode
[11:22] <Darkside> since he found big problems with it
[11:22] <UpuWork> thats the one mattbrejza
[11:23] <mattbrejza> yea the gps gets sad when signal strength dies a bit, but you just have to kick it (rewrite settings)
[11:23] <Darkside> they had a problem where if it loses lock it screws
[11:23] <UpuWork> I'll chat with you about it later, however I had huge issues with
[11:23] <UpuWork> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/spears_flight/
[11:23] <UpuWork> lol
[11:23] <UpuWork> at that pic
[11:23] <mattbrejza> how i actually had it working is when it lost lock it stopped giving data, the watchdog timer kicked in, resetting the msp, which then reset the gps
[11:23] <mattbrejza> jsut use a ublox 7 now :P
[11:24] <UpuWork> yeah
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[11:24] <Darkside> UpuWork: when are you etting those?
[11:24] <UpuWork> err December
[11:24] Action: UpuWork looks at the date
[11:24] <UpuWork> doh
[11:25] <UpuWork> Dave's calculations, based on an "absolutely ridiculous" payload weight of 1,900g
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[11:26] <mattbrejza> howd they manage that?
[11:26] <eroomde> that's quite light
[11:27] <mattbrejza> i should probably look at what was actually on it
[11:27] <UpuWork> For us "amateurs" its heavy
[11:27] <UpuWork> ping astrodog
[11:27] <UpuWork> you got a mention :)
[11:30] <Najed> hi all
[11:30] <Najed> just bought a helium regulator and thought i might get your opnion
[11:30] <Najed> uploading the images
[11:30] <eroomde> sure
[11:30] <Najed> link in a few minutes
[11:30] <eroomde> don't attach to mouth
[11:31] <Najed> ok
[11:31] <Darkside> :P
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[11:31] <Najed> here you go http://imgur.com/4aKdm,2U9ND,ulKx0#0
[11:32] <Darkside> looks like it will do fine
[11:32] <Darkside> you just need to get some hose on the output
[11:32] <Najed> got the hose too
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[11:33] <Darkside> cool
[11:33] <Najed> is this a high pressure regulator or will it take ages to fill the balloon ?
[11:33] <Darkside> it'll take a bit of time
[11:33] <Darkside> not super long
[11:33] <Najed> like how long?
[11:33] <Darkside> maybe 20-30 min?
[11:33] <Najed> 1200 g balloon
[11:33] <Darkside> yeah, probably 20-30 min or so
[11:34] <Najed> that is with in the comfort zone
[11:34] <Darkside> can't exactly remember, i always lose track of time during launch prep
[11:34] <Najed> no problem
[11:34] <Najed> any of you guys have a check list ready?
[11:34] <Najed> too lazy to write one
[11:35] <New2Balloon> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:pre_launch_checklist
[11:36] <cuddykid> any better UpuWork? http://i.imgur.com/GHdIG.png
[11:36] <UpuWork> use an SMD one on the rear and sit it right next to the pins
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[11:36] <cuddykid> good idea!
[11:36] <UpuWork> Sparkfun HC49/S
[11:36] <cuddykid> ta
[11:37] <daveake> eroomde My "ridiculous" comment was about the 5kg neck lift aksherley
[11:37] <daveake> I got mis-quoted :(
[11:37] <UpuWork> and it was me who backed away from the pyro
[11:38] <Darkside> and no mention of bundaberg ginger beer!
[11:38] <daveake> I did too
[11:38] <daveake> No !!!!
[11:38] <UpuWork> no but it makes a mention in the images
[11:38] <daveake> Can't be right!
[11:38] <UpuWork> err appears
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[11:54] <m0dts> anyone tracking K6RPT-12? has passed over london but no data on spacenear or aprs.fi?
[11:55] <Darkside> are you sure thats where it is?
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[11:55] <UpuWork> where did you get that info from m0dts ?
[11:55] <m0dts> a station in london has been listening to packet on that freq but not decoded it...
[11:56] <UpuWork> it wasn't heading for London
[11:57] <m0dts> hmm, he couldnt decode it so maybe something else but faded in then back out over time..
[11:58] <Najed> back
[11:58] <oh7lzb> When?
[11:58] <Najed> is there any gps altitude logger that i can attache to my payload and retrieve data after landing
[11:59] <m0dts> he heard it until about 30min ago but faded out now.. maybe something else, just wondered if it was correct!
[11:59] <Najed> note, i do not have radio reciever
[12:00] <oh7lzb> m0dts: Where did you hear/read about this? Did he try to decode it? Could not decode or didn't have a decoder?
[12:00] <Najed> i just want to know how high the balloon went, and ascent rate.
[12:01] <zyp> Najed, how are you going to locate your balloon after landing then?
[12:01] <Najed> SPOT GPS
[12:01] <m0dts> he had no decode setup was just monitoring that freq in cas eit appeared, maybe incorrect as no positive id..
[12:01] <oh7lzb> There's not many things transmitting packet on 144.390 over there, unless someone is playing tricks, or his receiver is hearing some byproduct or IF leak from 144.800.
[12:02] <m0dts> i will check back in if i find any more info, i'm at work now so couldnt listen myself..
[12:02] <Najed> i am sure there is some sort of USB flash like device that would record speed, altitude, ascent/descent rates.
[12:02] <Najed> been seraching the net but witout any sucess
[12:03] <Najed> anybody?
[12:03] <fsphil> my station on 144.390 has heard nothing, although I'm pretty far north
[12:03] <m0dts> aparrently it was approx 30sec tx then 30sec no signal cycle if that's relevent...right off for lunch...back later.
[12:04] <fsphil> most of us just track via radio Najed
[12:04] <Najed> i know fsphil, but i do not have radio for my first hab
[12:04] <oh7lzb> 30-second long transmission? It wouldn't be that long.
[12:04] <Najed> but i need to know max altitude
[12:06] <m0dts> yes not like normal packet... oh well, lets hope it's negative ID and appears later..hi
[12:06] <x-f> Najed, none of the GPS you can buy in the store work at high altitudes
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[12:06] <x-f> you could make your own logger, if you had more than "really soon" time :)
[12:07] <fsphil> and a logger is just a single component away from a tracker :)
[12:07] <x-f> yes
[12:09] <x-f> then a receiving equipment is required tho
[12:09] <x-f> but there must be radio amateurs in Saudi, too
[12:10] <Najed> i am willing to build my own
[12:10] <Najed> doe sit require any license tho
[12:11] <Najed> anything that can be attached to the payload and retrieved via connection to a pc after landing
[12:11] <Najed> x-f
[12:12] <x-f> m?
[12:12] <Najed> i am willing to build my own logger, anything that can be attached to the payload and retrieved via connection to a pc after landing
[12:12] <Najed> are you aware of how to build it?
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[12:13] <x-f> welcome to the electronics :) you'll need an Arduino, an SD module, an SD card and a GPS module (suitable for high altitude)
[12:13] <x-f> and a battery
[12:13] <Najed> and how do get the readings after recovery of payload?
[12:14] <x-f> all the data will be (should be) on the memory card
[12:14] <Najed> and
[12:14] <x-f> and you'll put it in your computer and read it
[12:14] <Najed> is there a special device that reads the SD card?
[12:15] <Najed> what software will read it>/
[12:15] <Najed> ?
[12:15] <x-f> usually you just need an adapter, or your computer might already have card reader
[12:15] <oh7lzb> my macbook has a sd slot on the left side.
[12:15] <mattbrejza> the arduino writes a text file on the card which is read by the pc
[12:15] <x-f> basically it's just a text file, no special software needed
[12:16] <oh7lzb> Half of all digital cameras use SD cards.
[12:16] <Najed> My MAC does have a card reader... but will there be any decoding required or is uit just a simple click/open/read and that is it
[12:16] <oh7lzb> that's it.
[12:17] <NavracWork> just a solid carrier here on 144.390
[12:17] <Najed> any tutorial on how to build one
[12:19] <x-f> first get familiar with Arduino, how it works, how you upload programs, etc
[12:19] <x-f> then start attaching parts to it
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[12:19] <x-f> and write your own code
[12:19] <x-f> plenty of samples around
[12:20] <oh7lzb> There are about 500 people staring at aprs.fi waiting for it to reappear right now. I'm sure the accumulated happiness would be large if a single BRRAAAAP would suddenly be heard.
[12:21] <gonzo___> more tea vicar?
[12:21] <M0NSA> oh7lzb, i'm listening on the freq and the number of squelch breaks is increasing, though not hearing packet YET - so it could just be increasing local noise
[12:22] <NavracWork> i think it will go well south of us
[12:23] <gonzo___> I expect if it came over our noirson, the sigs would become qyuite strrong quite quickly
[12:23] <gonzo___> horison
[12:23] <Najed> x-f: thanks
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[12:25] <cm13g09> presumably we're expecting something any time now.... if we're going to see it at all here in the UK
[12:25] <cm13g09> although I thought the prediction said 6PM
[12:30] <x-f> Najed, when you'll get to the GPS module, take one of these, they're well proven at high altitude flights - http://ava.upuaut.net/store/?route=product/category&path=59_60
[12:31] <Najed> x-f: ok
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[13:04] <cuddykid> UpuWork: doing some research on the SMD crystal - you said HC49/S package - seems like that's through hole? Is the SMD crystal in your AVA library at all?
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[13:08] <RocketBoy> there are through hole and surface mount variants of the HC49/S
[13:09] <RocketBoy> they just flatten and bend the leads through an insulating spacer to make them surface mount
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[13:10] <RocketBoy> like this http://transko.hostei.com/img/product/crystal_pdf/hc49smd.pdf
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[13:13] <UpuWork> err hang on cuddykid
[13:14] <UpuWork> i did one this morning that has dual HC49 and the ABM03 pads
[13:14] <UpuWork> HC49UP sorry
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[13:22] <Najed> hi
[13:22] <cuddykid> cheers UpuWork
[13:22] <Najed> hi all
[13:23] <Najed> does anyone have a link to one of those USB exteranl power supply that work on AA batteries?
[13:27] <cuddykid> looking any better? http://i.imgur.com/xY6AU.png
[13:28] <cuddykid> makes sense now, thanks RocketBoy :)
[13:29] <UpuWork> yep but
[13:29] <UpuWork> try make the crystal to the crystal caps equidistant
[13:29] <UpuWork> i.e put the on the bottom
[13:30] <UpuWork> them
[13:32] <cuddykid> will do, thanks
[13:33] <fsphil> nothing heard, not looking good
[13:34] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/vNvRttvW
[13:34] <Laurenceb> octave code to give nearest road and class of road
[13:36] <cuddykid> nice work Laurenceb
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[13:53] <Laurenceb> some minor b roads seem inaccurate
[13:53] <Laurenceb> but looks like it works for everything else
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[14:04] <astrodog> Ha. That's fun Upu.
[14:05] <radim_OM2AMR> Upu, cuddykid, what about using SAW filter between Sarantel and ublox ?
[14:07] <astrodog> Looks like K6RPT-12 went north... or sank. Heh.
[14:07] <UpuWork> sure its something that can be done
[14:07] <UpuWork> well only fair to credit you astrodog :)
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[14:12] <radim_OM2AMR> UpuWork, we used Venus938 GPS, wich has integrated SAW and active antena with SAW also, without any jamming from 808 cameras for example
[14:12] <gb73d> Hi it seems the transatklanticv floater has not been heard since mid atlantic
[14:12] <UpuWork> generally easier just to put the 808's out of range :)
[14:12] <UpuWork> nothing heard gb73d
[14:12] <gb73d> ok ty
[14:12] <radim_OM2AMR> oops, wrong venus - Venus638FLPx is correct :-|
[14:17] <astrodog> Upu: What's the predictor say about K6RPT-12?
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[14:18] <UpuWork> well predictor isn't much use for that
[14:18] <UpuWork> I'll give it a shot 1 sec
[14:19] <astrodog> Could you feed it a lauch altitude of 34km? *grin*
[14:19] <UpuWork> yes you can actually
[14:20] <UpuWork> then put burst of 34001
[14:20] <UpuWork> and a decent rate of 0.00001
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[14:21] <astrodog> Seems like it'd be close... and we can compare the prediction to actual track if we wanted, from, say, the final over-land point.
[14:22] <UpuWork> predictor is being broken
[14:22] <astrodog> That's always fun.
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[14:24] <UpuWork> nah predictor doesn't want to play today
[14:24] <astrodog> How does it work?
[14:25] <UpuWork> http://habhub.org/predict/
[14:25] <radim_OM2AMR> just 85% files downloaded, then nothing...
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[14:26] <astrodog> Upu: Is there a description of the code behind it? *grin*
[14:26] <m0psi> hi all, I take it the atlantic balloon has gone awl
[14:26] <oh7lzb> mia
[14:26] <m0psi> shame
[14:27] <UpuWork> err
[14:27] <NavracWork> the noaa site might be working
[14:27] <UpuWork> somewhere probably astrodog
[14:27] <lz1dev> K6RPT-12 should've made it to europe by now?
[14:27] <m0psi> or africa
[14:27] <oh7lzb> Nobody's listening in africa.
[14:27] <lz1dev> aprs?
[14:28] <m0psi> unlikely, but you never know
[14:28] <daveake> It's probably headed for Shoreham
[14:28] <lz1dev> is not transmitting aprs over europe ?
[14:28] <astrodog> It should be a few hundred miles off the coast.
[14:28] <m0psi> amazing that it was doing 200mph last night
[14:29] <astrodog> It slowed down significantly over the Atlantic.
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[14:29] <m0psi> of course as far as the balloon was concerned, it was light airs :-)
[14:29] <astrodog> If no one is listening in the Azores, we probably wouldn't have heard from it just yet.
[14:29] <UpuWork> astrodog https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor
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[14:30] <NavracWork> the global tuners station in spain might be the best bet - if i can find my password
[14:31] <m0psi> so, is the main reason why the uk hab possie not using aprs is because of the clever laws we have re tx from the air?
[14:31] <astrodog> UpuWork: Any use for a spatial database backed version?
[14:31] <UpuWork> wha does that mean ? :)
[14:31] <m0psi> it seems to me that using and hooking into the aprs net is a good thing
[14:32] <NavracWork> m0psi - yes
[14:32] <m0psi> so, i was wondering why non aprs was used to track hab
[14:32] <m0psi> ok
[14:32] <NavracWork> as in yes no amateur tx airborne in the uk
[14:33] <craag> UpuWork: Can you run the predictor in the past?
[14:33] <astrodog> You'd run PostgreSQL... and could simply keep the entire GFS model in the database, and return GeoJSON or PostGIS layers for mapping.
[14:33] <UpuWork> no
[14:33] <m0psi> so, everyone one around the uk is allowed, but we don't. and that is supposed to promote innnovation?!
[14:33] <UpuWork> astrodog might be a better idea, I know they are looking at it, if you want to improve it join #habhub and chat in there about it
[14:33] <UpuWork> there are a number of things that could be improved
[14:34] <craag> Oh ok, well I have this prediction based on 'now' data: https://www.thecraag.com/predict/#!/uuid=69f7c60c3c5f73f28a5ca71862ea4b621a351f8d
[14:34] <astrodog> craag: Remember, it's been flying 12 hours.
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[14:35] <astrodog> So... for a prediction, we really need the GFS model from 12 hours ago. :\
[14:35] <UpuWork> well its likely to be in the drink
[14:35] <craag> Yep, don't know how to hack it for that tho :P
[14:36] <astrodog> craag: Gimme a sec.
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[14:36] <craag> I'm assuming 'things will break' if I just remove the input validation for the time/date being in the past.
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[14:37] <astrodog> One way to find out.
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[14:39] <craag> astrodog: stand by..
[14:39] <craag> It appears to have worked!
[14:39] <craag> Downloaded the midnight GFS model.
[14:40] <craag> And... it's morocco: https://www.thecraag.com/predict/#!/uuid=dbe7c4adaf0cc755abeb4677503e70a5569bfaad
[14:40] <UpuWork> would have been suprised if the Azores couldn't pick that up
[14:41] <astrodog> craag: I have an idea, one sec.
[14:41] <craag> Same. Given that flight path is 5 hours, I think it's either in the sea, or well over central africa by now.
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[14:42] <astrodog> craag: I'm trying a run against it's last over-land location. See if the model is getting the known path correct.
[14:42] <craag> Sounds good.
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[14:43] <craag> Lat delta can be opened up to 30 degrees at the moment, let me know if you need any more.
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[14:44] Action: craag afk for a few minutes.
[14:44] <astrodog> https://www.thecraag.com/predict/#!/uuid=d3c8bf26bdffa70a3dd3ba8cd2300a4368ebddd9
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[14:46] <m0dts> my source earlier must have been kidding me judging by that prediction....hi
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[14:49] <oh7lzb> I'm still hoping it'll follow my scientific prediction and wake up from deep freeze around here. :)
[14:50] <NavracWork> nothing heard on globaltuners
[14:50] <UpuWork> I suspect it ditched over night
[14:51] <UpuWork> needs more satellite comms :)
[14:52] <m0dts> hope it appears, at home now and monitoring...
[14:53] <NavracWork> cnsp make me laugh.. from their about page 'To provide leadership for the ballooning community via presentations, and internet sharing of new information.'
[14:54] <UpuWork> do what ?
[14:54] <NavracWork> however they never seem to get round to the sharing bit
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[14:54] <UpuWork> their definition of sharing needs some work
[14:54] <UpuWork> I'm going to apply it to my whisky
[14:54] <astrodog> Upu: I was suprised there was no Iridium module.
[14:55] <UpuWork> They tend to use off the shelf modules without custom firmware or their own code
[14:55] <UpuWork> I think
[14:55] <UpuWork> I suppose they could stick a SPOT on it
[14:56] <oh7lzb> Switching to the ISS frequency and digipeater path over the sea would be cool, too.
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[14:57] <UpuWork> yep James has some code for that to predict when its over head
[14:57] <UpuWork> however, that would involve custom code
[14:57] <UpuWork> I don't think it could reach IIS
[14:57] <UpuWork> oh7lzb for a clueless APRS noob can you answer me a few questions
[14:58] <UpuWork> like whats "wide" and the numbers
[14:58] <oh7lzb> APRS noob maybe. Clueless, no.
[14:58] <mfa298> This is the point when I start to think our way of doing HAB has it's advantages, especially when people look at HF trackers as well.
[14:59] <astrodog> http://imgur.com/FcQ7m - Prediction versus actual.
[14:59] <oh7lzb> WIDE is an alias for a digipeater, the digipeaters are configured to retransmit packets having the "WIDEn-N" callsign as the next unused path element.
[14:59] <UpuWork> ok lets back up a sec
[14:59] <oh7lzb> The numbers are an APRS modification (hack).
[14:59] <radim_OM2AMR> astrodog, nice, let's try to add the Morocco prediction
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[15:00] <astrodog> rad: Link it again?
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[15:00] <astrodog> Ah, got it.
[15:00] <UpuWork> so a digipeater takes the packet and retransmits it via radio ?
[15:00] <UpuWork> and whats an unused path element ?
[15:01] <oh7lzb> WIDE2-2 in the original packet asks for two hops of repeating. The first digipeater hearing that reduces that to WIDE2-1, the second one reduces that to WIDE2-0 (shown as WIDE2 since the -0 is not displayed), and sets (or at least should set) the "used" bit for that path element.
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[15:01] <oh7lzb> The packet has a source callsign, a destination callsign, and digipeater path.
[15:01] <UpuWork> ok
[15:01] <oh7lzb> In traditional old packet radio, you would transmit a packet like this:
[15:02] <oh7lzb> OH7LZB>UPU,DIGI1,DIGI2:datadatadata
[15:02] <oh7lzb> DIGI1 would hear the packet, and set the "used" bit sitting in the frame format next to DIGI1
[15:02] <m0dts> that reminds me of the good old days of packet on 27MHz :-)
[15:03] <m0dts> ham packet is dead..hi
[15:03] <oh7lzb> DIGI2 would look at the next unused path element (DIGI2), and mark it used and transmit.
[15:03] <gonzo___> I used to run an rtty link on 27meg, with mech teleprinters
[15:03] <oh7lzb> The "used" bit is displayed in the TNC2 monitor format using a * next to the callsign.
[15:04] <oh7lzb> With the fun detail that only the last "used" digipeater has the *.
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[15:04] <oh7lzb> So in a packet of OH7LZB>UPU,DIGI1,DIGI2,DIGI3*:datadata actually all of the digis have the "used" bit set.
[15:05] <oh7lzb> That's done just to make it look nicer, some TNCs actually display DIGI1*,DIGI2*,DIGI3*, but the APRS-IS software cleans that up.
[15:05] <gonzo___> I think the * would show which digi you were hearing the packet from
[15:05] <gonzo___> when monitoring that is
[15:06] <m0dts> yes
[15:06] <oh7lzb> With the APRS hacks and bugs in place, it's not that simple any more.
[15:06] <oh7lzb> In the traditional old packet radio network, that woul dhold true.
[15:06] <UpuWork> 5:Fm M6AVD-9 To U3TSWY Via WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 <UI pid=F0 Len=15 >[15:06:10]
[15:06] <UpuWork> `w?Z @J>/>"5F}
[15:06] <UpuWork> That i think my station recieved
[15:06] <astrodog> http://imgur.com/lmpcy
[15:06] <gonzo___> if you could hear the originator and the digis, you would get 4 packets monitiored, and the ^ would move along the list
[15:06] <UpuWork> I don't know if it did anything with it
[15:07] <fsphil> would be simpler to scrap APRS at this point, rather than trying to fix it
[15:07] <astrodog> (That's it with the two predictions)
[15:07] <UpuWork> my station doesn't retransmit but is connected to the internet
[15:07] <oh7lzb> You received that one directly from M6AVD-9.
[15:07] <radim_OM2AMR> astrodog, muuuch better :-)
[15:07] <gonzo___> oh7lzb, I never moved on from OLD packet!
[15:07] <UpuWork> ok
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[15:08] <UpuWork> would my station do anything with that packet like relay it to the internet ?
[15:08] <astrodog> It looks like the red prediction has the atlantic trough misplaced (which is why we see that... abrupt turn)
[15:08] <oh7lzb> He's asking for a WIDE1 ("local fill-in") digi to repeat the packet, and two WIDE2 (wide-area) digipeaters to repeat it. 3 hops - that could mean half the country over here.
[15:08] <m0dts> thats how i learnt about linux variants, playing with ax25 digi and bbs etc...great fun some 10 years ago!
[15:08] <oh7lzb> Yes, your station would pass that to the internet if you were running an igate.
[15:09] <UpuWork> ah ok missing knowledge incoming I suspecty
[15:09] <UpuWork> I'm running AGWTracker
[15:09] <UpuWork> thats not an igate then ?
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[15:10] <oh7lzb> I guess it is. I don't use it, the guy can't grok the difference between Unicode and UTF-8 so I gave up.
[15:10] <nayr> nothing in 11h,?
[15:10] <astrodog> Okay... that's kind of fun.
[15:10] <astrodog> It might show back up in the GoM. :P
[15:10] <oh7lzb> Maybe igating is just not enabled in some menu.
[15:11] <oh7lzb> Also, the APRS-IS removes duplicate packets heard within 30 seconds, so if another igate managed to push it to the servers first, the copy you heard might be dropped.
[15:13] <oh7lzb> Also: http://www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2012-October/040635.html http://www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2012-October/040646.html
[15:14] <oh7lzb> He wrote a DSP modem program for Windows, which had a TCP protocol for communicating from an application client to the modem's TCP server.
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[15:15] <nayr> iran is claiming to shot down another drone, hope it wasent K6RPT12
[15:15] <nayr> :P
[15:15] <UpuWork> haha
[15:15] <UpuWork> be a long shot if it did
[15:15] <UpuWork> so is there any way to run an igate under windows ?
[15:15] <nayr> we were joking about it lastnight
[15:15] <oh7lzb> Published a nice word document about it. People wrote client apps. Now there's also like 5 or 6 other sound modems, all of which are free, and some are better than his. Now he's not happy. :)
[15:15] <nayr> and i wake up, no baloon but theres iran on news
[15:15] <craag> UpuWork: aprsisce works well.
[15:16] <UpuWork> ok thx
[15:16] <craag> The only issue I've had with it is agwpe giving up after a few days.
[15:16] <oh7lzb> aprsisce is nice, and Lynn is much nicer than George Rossopoulos too.
[15:16] <fsphil> oh7lzb: bit of a jerk?
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[15:17] <oh7lzb> His commercial interests in selling agwpe were hurt by fair competition.
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[15:20] <nayr> ah dang ISS isint flying over atlnatic for a while..
[15:20] <astrodog> Right now, it appears that K6RPT-12 might visit somewhere like Gambia... or it may return to North America.
[15:20] <astrodog> :P
[15:20] <astrodog> Anyone know how long its batteries are good for?
[15:20] <nayr> someone posted a graph lastnight
[15:20] <nayr> it looked like it had solar
[15:21] <nayr> http://x-f.lv/x-files/pics/k6rpt-12.png
[15:21] <mfa298> from the twitter it sounded like there's solar to recharge (and heat) the batteries
[15:22] <mfa298> that looks a lot like the battery didn't charge that well during the day.
[15:22] <astrodog> Could just be temperature.
[15:23] <radim_OM2AMR> astrodog, I read somewhere that for 50 hours
[15:25] <astrodog> Hrm.
[15:25] <nayr> it obviously missed the azores, wonder how far north it went
[15:25] <astrodog> nayer: I don't think it went North.
[15:25] <astrodog> It looks like the ridge collapsed, based on what the models are showing now.
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[15:25] <nayr> so ur thinking spain?
[15:26] <astrodog> Right now? Gambia. Or North America again.
[15:26] <nayr> oh danm
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[15:27] <nayr> it'd of had to drop due south
[15:27] <astrodog> In the end... either it made it onto the ridge... and we're looking at France/UK/etc... or, if it didn't, it's hard to tell. Africa or back to North America.
[15:27] <astrodog> http://imgur.com/lmpcy
[15:28] <astrodog> It was already going south much faster than the red model predicted... and it was well south of the green one over the ridge.
[15:28] <mattbrejza> did anyone tell recievers it might be passing over? assuming those islands also use .800 not .390
[15:28] <nayr> yeah i see that, shoulda been picked up by azores tho
[15:29] <nayr> someone emailed azores lastnight
[15:29] <nayr> CU7CRA digipeater is online
[15:33] <nayr> looks like its on a nice sized volcano at >700m asl
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[15:35] <nayr> if it went south I dont think the'd of missed it
[15:35] <nayr> unless it went way south under em
[15:36] <astrodog> None of the models seem to support it making the turn north... if it dropped south that quickly, though, it may just end up looping.
[15:36] <nayr> the path you drew basically had it go right over azores
[15:37] <astrodog> Red is run on the current model, but the last position is 10 hours old.
[15:37] <nayr> it coulda lost alot of speed
[15:38] <astrodog> Or... it rose too much as it warmed up, and popped.
[15:38] <nayr> that too, it didnt drop much when it got dark and cold
[15:38] <nayr> next day with warmth it coulda got a big bump
[15:39] <nayr> last telimetry showed battery was down, speed was down but altitude was holding
[15:41] <fsphil> did local sunrise happen while it was out of contact?
[15:42] <fsphil> it could have burst
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[15:44] <nayr> yeah
[15:45] <nayr> its last contact was like 11pm MST
[15:45] <fsphil> still was an impressive float
[15:46] <fsphil> north america is pretty big! :)
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[15:46] <nayr> I think iran shot it down still :P
[15:46] <JFS1> Afternoon all - any one tried checking up on K6RPT-12?
[15:47] <nayr> no word from it since yesterday
[15:47] <nayr> 12h
[15:47] <nayr> so i guess it was like 9pm MST when it last heard from
[15:48] <JFS1> Not looking promising then - shame it seemed to be looking fine last nigth.
[15:48] <nayr> thinking it burst when the sun came up
[15:48] <icecdocorp> 172.18.5.201
[15:48] <JFS1> was it latex?
[15:49] <icecdocorp> ( sorry, wrong window )
[15:49] <nayr> dunno
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[15:49] <nayr> models show it shoulda passed over azores long time ago and they never spotted it
[15:50] <JFS1> sounds fairly terminal then
[15:51] <nayr> could still be out there but yeah
[15:51] <JFS1> I was hoping that after having eaten three HABs last weekend the water might have had enough for a while
[15:51] <nayr> its never had enough :)
[15:51] <daveake> It has a large Habettite
[15:52] <nayr> its still transmitting on US APRS frequencies tho and as far as I can see Azores is one of the few listening stations left
[15:52] <nayr> if it went further north or south it may still be out there w/nobody listning for it
[15:53] <JFS1> daveake: a very large one recently - I don't suppose you've heard anything about yours that were eaten?
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[15:54] <daveake> No. The boat that was nearby didn't see it.
[15:55] <m0dts> is it only VHF this one? the others had HF?
[15:55] <nayr> i believe so
[15:56] <m0dts> ah ok
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[16:05] <radim_OM2AMR> CNSP @K6RPT
[16:05] <radim_OM2AMR> If CNSP-18 is still floating, it should reach Europe or Africa by 1900 UTC. Thanks go to the many #hamradio ops listening.
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[16:16] <nayr> so ~3h?
[16:17] <x-f> yeah
[16:17] <x-f> they are expecting to have power for 60 hours total
[16:18] <x-f> (info from their twitter feed)
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[18:16] <arko> morning
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> morning
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[18:18] <arko> someone sent me this and told me it's my life story http://i.imgur.com/72Qt8.jpg
[18:18] <arko> pretty accurate i say
[18:21] <nigelvh> Anyone across the pond heard anything about the K6RPT flight?
[18:22] <arko> it's a shame if it's gone
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[18:23] <arko> when were they expecting signal to return?
[18:24] <nigelvh> I had thought the UK guys were hoping to hear from it mid day
[18:24] <russss> should have been in range of the Azores this morning and western europe midday-ish
[18:24] <russss> (UTC)
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[18:36] <nayr> half an hour left before its late
[18:38] <nayr> said 7pm utc it should have reached eu or africa
[18:40] <arko> oh no way
[18:40] <arko> so it's not lost hope
[18:40] <nigelvh> It's also to be considered though that they're using the US APRS frequency, so people in other countries have to be tuned there.
[18:40] <arko> ah
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> there's some globaltuners radios around the world that can also be tuned to 2m
[18:41] <fsphil> got an igate setup but I'm much too far north
[18:41] <arko> so did these guys coodinate with anyone in eu?
[18:41] <fsphil> don't believe so
[18:41] <nayr> ther'es hamnets searching for it tho
[18:41] <nayr> im sure
[18:41] <nayr> were all pretty stoked when this happens
[18:41] <fsphil> they seem to launch, and just hope people listen out for it :)
[18:41] <fsphil> which is a pretty safe bet to be honest
[18:42] <nayr> not like a bunch of fat old farts aint listning ;)
[18:43] <nayr> we'll climb a moutain to make a contact, but would rather sit in basement
[18:44] <arko> 99% are a bunch of old farts :(
[18:44] <arko> it was the facebook of the 1950's
[18:45] <fsphil> I wonder if it's that, or that 60% are just really quiet
[18:45] <arko> i rarely talk
[18:45] <nayr> IRC is twitter for old people, HAM is the old persons smart phone
[18:45] <arko> i can't stand the medicare talk
[18:46] <nigelvh> Well, I know that I'm 23 and don't talk a lot on the radio, but do use my license for projects and whatnot.
[18:46] <arko> "yes, dorthy's aarp came in today"
[18:46] <arko> BORING
[18:46] <nayr> I dont talk @ all
[18:46] <nayr> im all digital
[18:46] <arko> yeah
[18:46] <fsphil> I've never used the radio for chat
[18:46] <nayr> i listen to local nets every once and a while
[18:46] <fsphil> well once
[18:46] <nayr> tune in when storms are about
[18:47] <nigelvh> I generally do the local ATV net, but otherwise I don't do a lot of talking.
[18:47] <daveake> I remember telling the hams at Bletchley Park what I use radio for ... they stared at me with "er, why don't you use it to talk to people?" look in their eyes
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[18:48] <fsphil> I had the CB for chat when I was younger
[18:48] <fsphil> less formal :)
[18:48] <nayr> there's alot of traffic where I am at tho, sometimes there's some interesting activity
[18:48] <nayr> usally not tho
[18:49] <nayr> tho the first day I turned my radio on was one of the best.. found a big ass foxhunt in progress
[18:49] <nayr> someone had a 1w VHF radio stuck on transmit on the 20th floor of a building in the Tech Center
[18:49] <nayr> was quite interesting watching em find it
[18:49] <nayr> at some radio station, knocked on door at 6pm durring xmas party
[18:50] <m0dts> ATV all the way here, video and voice ;-)
[18:50] <nigelvh> We have a video repeater and then do audio over one of the local voice repeaters.
[18:51] <nigelvh> Our exciter at the video repeater doesn't deal with audio well, so we disabled that.
[18:51] <m0dts> full duplex video here, where are you?
[18:51] <fsphil> I tried to get stuff from 13cm.co.uk but they never sent the goods
[18:51] <nigelvh> We're in Seattle, WA
[18:51] <m0dts> a hsame that site.. poor service
[18:51] <m0dts> *shame about that site
[18:52] <fsphil> very
[18:52] <fsphil> ended up opening a paypal case to get my money back
[18:52] <m0dts> ah, thought i would have recognised the name if u were in uk..hi
[18:52] <nigelvh> Yeah, I've heard that the UK groups have a good bit going on with ATV
[18:52] <m0dts> many people have had same problem, annoying as it puts a lot of people off atv.
[18:53] <nigelvh> We're still running pretty simple. 70cm uplink AM, 23cm downlink AM.
[18:53] <m0dts> mobicom on ebay is the best bet now but a little more expensive.
[18:54] <fsphil> I had seen him when searching
[18:54] <fsphil> I went for 13cm because of the price
[18:54] <fsphil> but I'll give mobicon a go
[18:54] <fsphil> or wait and get the dvb stuff
[18:54] <m0dts> ah right, 13/23/70cm up and 13/3cm down on my local repeater with quad picture for duplex.. the only ful duplex repeater in operation at present.
[18:55] <m0dts> dvb is good but more expense again!
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> are the spacenear times in UTC?
[18:56] <nigelvh> Yeah, we're at an antenna limited and RF nasty site, so we've had a good bit of a fight just getting 70cm recieve working right at the repeater.
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[18:57] <m0dts> i see 70cm is a problem with us, there's a Defense site with high power radar in band on 70cm near here which causes a lot of problems
[18:58] <m0dts> ssdv from the balloons is about as good as 70cm gets for pictures atm!
[18:58] <nigelvh> Yeah, we've talked about doing a 33cm recieve, as there's in theory room for us, but it would require new equipment for everyone.
[18:59] <m0dts> always problems! anyway must go, just had to chip in when atv was mentioned ;-)
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[19:00] <nigelvh> Have a good one.
[19:00] <Dan-K2VOL> ok here's a hysplit trajectory for that transatlantic flight that may be horribly wrong because the data model stops at 29900m, but for that altitude, here's the prediction: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/10493_trj001.gif
[19:00] <nigelvh> We do stream our nets though. wwats.net at 7pm pacific on thursdays and sundays
[19:00] <Dan-K2VOL> starting at 0400 on 04/12
[19:00] <m0dts> check out batc.tv and gb3km repeater sometime to see our system, will sheck your stream soon.
[19:01] <Dan-K2VOL> so K6RPT watchers, check that link I posted
[19:01] <fsphil> think it's safe for me to shut down this igate :)
[19:02] <m0dts> shame about the path.. few listeners down there...
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> well, remember it may be wrong, that's 5km lower than the last reported altitude
[19:02] <m0dts> hope so!
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[19:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Maybe we've some realistic chance that it'll come back to central America ;)
[19:06] <Dan-K2VOL> so what about those jagged lines on the path on spacenear.us
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[19:07] <mattbrejza> Dan-K2VOL: decimal to nmea screw up (best guesses)
[19:07] <nigelvh> It's been having GPS issues and has been reporting some positions/altitudes incorrectly
[19:07] <mattbrejza> there are even more dodgy points that dont make it onto aprs.fi
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> quite interesting, is this not the commercial tracker?
[19:08] <mattbrejza> its supposidly a big red bee thing, but with a ublox instead of hte usual lassen
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds like the firmware isn't so great
[19:09] <mattbrejza> the altitude also messes up when the lat/long are out
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[19:31] <nayr> I have a feeling if its still floating its on the surface of the atlantic
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[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah it should be over land by now if it maintained altitude
[19:33] <nayr> if it came near europe someone woulda have picked it up surely
[19:33] <arko> :( i was really hoping to see it
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[19:35] <nayr> it was doing pretty well all day yesterday
[19:35] <nayr> other than the GPS gltch
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[19:36] <nayr> V01BIL managed to keep ahold of it 1/4way across the atlantic, everything lookd promicing that it'd pop out on the other side
[19:36] <fsphil> make you wanna try again Dan-K2VOL? :)
[19:36] <x-f> :)
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[19:38] <nayr> keep trying eventully your bound to come down on land
[19:38] <nayr> by sheer brute force
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe fsphil I'm holding out for the real superpressure system, there's no reason to stop at europe if you have a good balloon
[19:39] <nayr> which communist state will be the first to shoot down an ametuear american baloon?
[19:40] Action: fsphil goes back to work on his 50km range laser.... :)
[19:40] <nayr> thinking about it im not sure iran can throw rocks that high
[19:43] <lz1dev> high altitude balloon warfare?
[19:43] <nayr> would be a good target to practice your anti satelitte tech
[19:43] <nigelvh> Japan used high altitude balloons made of paper to drop bombs on america during the war. (Weren't really successful, but they did)
[19:44] <nayr> they made it to mainland US
[19:44] <nayr> had they had GPS they might of hit something
[19:44] <nayr> but using timers is kinda like playing lottery
[19:44] <nigelvh> That's all they had.
[19:45] <nayr> they had much more knowledge bout jet stream then we did at the time
[19:45] <nigelvh> They had also hoped that even if they didn't hit many people, that the fear would be greater than it was.
[19:45] <nayr> could of been an effective weapon, even still today perhaps
[19:45] <nayr> it'd be really hard to track a high altitude baloon that didnt want to be tracked
[19:45] <nayr> hell we cant even track the ones we do want
[19:46] <lz1dev> fsphil: add aprs-is guided aiming, balloon recognition and you will have a defense system for habs
[19:46] <nayr> for just random terrorisim, you'd need a pretty massive nation to use it against.. your not gona have much luck hitting anything not the size of US/Canada etc
[19:47] <nayr> but im sure one idiot would try it, then the attacked country would spend 30 trillion developing anti-baloon shield
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[19:48] <lz1dev> and the idiot would make sure to get teh contract
[19:48] <nayr> you figured out the ??? before proffit!
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[19:51] <SamSilver> evening jcoxon
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[19:54] <SamSilver> night all
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[20:01] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:01] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
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[20:03] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[20:03] <Upu> you about for a bit ?
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[20:05] <jcoxon> yup
[20:06] <RocketBoy> yo jcoxon
[20:06] <RocketBoy> wanted to ask about solar pannels
[20:06] <Upu> ok working on this APRS tracker
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[20:08] <jcoxon> sounds like we are working on the same things
[20:08] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, fire away
[20:09] <RocketBoy> ta - this one is 3.3V right?
[20:09] <RocketBoy> x 100mA
[20:10] <jcoxon> not sure which one you mean?
[20:10] <RocketBoy> sorry http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/7648695270/in/contacts/
[20:10] <RocketBoy> forgot to paste the link
[20:10] <jcoxon> thats 3.7v 100mA
[20:10] <jcoxon> in proper sunlight it puts out about 4.2V
[20:11] <RocketBoy> that appears to be 3 x 12 cell array
[20:11] <RocketBoy> (two lots of 3 x 6 in parallel
[20:11] <RocketBoy> )
[20:11] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, so i've got one of those powering an Hx-1
[20:11] <jcoxon> doing beacon every 2 mins
[20:12] <RocketBoy> cool
[20:12] <jcoxon> what you scheming?
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[20:13] <RocketBoy> nothing really - just trying to come up with an optimal way of placing panels to get good outpput
[20:13] <jcoxon> so there are other options
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: pointed at the sun
[20:14] <jcoxon> i've got some 3v 50mA
[20:14] <RocketBoy> cant decide if to have 4 pannels round a cube - and for only 2 panneks to be illuminated at one time
[20:14] <jcoxon> http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/538/powerfilm-mp337-50ma-3v-mini-solar-panel
[20:14] <jcoxon> so i'm playing with supercaps
[20:14] <jcoxon> to accomadate the solars inconsistancy
[20:14] <Upu> thats the one I use
[20:15] <RocketBoy> or one big pannel that rotates with the balloon and gets sun 50% of the time
[20:15] <Upu> I thought a hex shaped box with 45' angles and 6 panels
[20:15] <Upu> so 3 get illuminated at any given time
[20:15] <RocketBoy> how do the supercaps do at low temps?
[20:15] <Upu> in theory
[20:15] <Upu> you can get them rated to -40
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: horizontal is good at UK latitude near midday
[20:18] <RocketBoy> surely for HAB work at altitude mounted at an angle is best
[20:20] <RocketBoy> I was reading a paper on solar cells - and it seems any shaddowed ones cause more loss than would be accounted for by the %shading alone
[20:20] <RocketBoy> any //el ones in shade act as a load
[20:21] <RocketBoy> and any series ones in shade act as additional series resistance
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> solar cells are diodes in parallel with a current source
[20:22] <jcoxon> bbiab
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> the current source is proportional to intensity
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> shadowed cells reverse bias
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> if you have ten panels in parallel, then one is illuminated, the voltage is 60mv lower
[20:23] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'm talking about the individual cells in an array - like say those at the left of the picture
[20:23] <RocketBoy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/7648695270/in/contacts/
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> that's six cells
[20:24] <RocketBoy> if all the left colum were ti get shaddowed yu would loose more than 1/3 the power
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:24] <RocketBoy> columns as in vertical - thats 12 cells
[20:25] <RocketBoy> likewise if the ower 6 cells got shaddowed the you would loose more than 1/2 the power
[20:25] <RocketBoy> lower
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> look closely
[20:25] <RocketBoy> 6 rows
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> it's six long and thin cells
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> they are divided into multiple sections by the metallisation
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> bit they are not different bits of silicon
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[20:27] <RocketBoy> hang on - lets see if we are talking about the same thing
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> the last picture you posted
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> ...270/
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[20:31] <RocketBoy> to me thats a 3 colums between the +ve and -ve connections ?
[20:31] <RocketBoy> are you saying its 6?
[20:32] <RocketBoy> and 12 full rows (with some half cells thrown in)
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> 3 columns would be about 1.8v open circuit
[20:32] <RocketBoy> ah - thats one of my Qs
[20:33] <RocketBoy> how to get 3.7v out of 3 cells in series
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[20:33] <SpeedEvil> six total cells. look very closely and you can see where the bits of silicon are disjoint
[20:34] <RocketBoy> yeah - but they are in //el not series
[20:34] <RocketBoy> you mean the gap between the upper 3x6 cells and the lower 3 x 6 cells
[20:37] <RocketBoy> its just 2 of these 3.6v x 50mA pannels in parallel http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/oem/mpt36-75
[20:37] <RocketBoy> again 3.6V from a 3 x 6 array - 3 in series 6 in parallel
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[20:53] <anerDev> Hi, anyone there ?
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[20:58] <craag> anerDev: Good evening.
[21:00] Ben__ (3e1f49a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.31.73.165) joined #highaltitude.
[21:00] <Ben__> Hello! Is anyone there? :)
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[21:01] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:02] <Ben__> D:
[21:03] <fsphil> just us invisible people :)
[21:04] Action: mfa298 watches the tumble weed go past
[21:04] Action: LazyLeopard yawns
[21:04] Action: daveake yawns too
[21:04] <Ben__> Can I pick your brains for a few minutes? :) I've no experience in ballooning
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> do not make them from lead
[21:05] Action: daveake crosses project off list
[21:05] <jcoxon> ask away
[21:05] <jcoxon> its best not to ask to ask
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[21:05] <Ben__> Some context: I'm a 17 year old student form Birmingham, UK, I want to get a little group together to work on a project for a fe wmonths
[21:06] <jcoxon> okay
[21:06] <Ben__> I'm experienced in engineering stuff like this and have resources but I'm afraid balloons are slightly out of my comfort zome xD
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> what electronics skills do you have
[21:06] <Ben__> WEll, I have full marks at GCSE electronics, I used Arduino to make a device
[21:07] <Ben__> so I can program with that and design PCBs well enough
[21:07] <Upu> "a device"
[21:07] <Upu> I'm intrigued
[21:07] <Ben__> I'm into model a ircraft in a big way too
[21:07] <Ben__> I made a golf ball returner :P
[21:07] <jcoxon> sounds like a good start
[21:07] <jcoxon> the ukhas wiki is worth a read
[21:07] <anerDev> Hi folks
[21:08] <anerDev> I have a question
[21:08] <Ben__> I'm briefly browsing it now
[21:08] <Upu> evening anerDev
[21:08] <Upu> Ben__ best idea is to read the blogs of others
[21:08] <Upu> project pages, the wiki etc
[21:08] <Ben__> It mentions you've done launches in Ombersly, is there an established 'site' there?
[21:08] <Ben__> mhm
[21:08] <anerDev> what's the hardware for use this dl-fldigi ?
[21:08] <anerDev> software
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> you mean what hardware is needed to receive payloads with dl-fldigi?
[21:09] <jcoxon> anerDev, lots, anything that can pipe audio in
[21:10] <Ben__> Judging by the list of sites you've launched from Ombersly is the closest to me
[21:10] <daveake> Any "real" radio or scanner that has SSB, or an SDR USB stick
[21:10] <anerDev> oh perfect !
[21:10] <jcoxon> there isn't a permant site there
[21:11] <Ben__> I'm mostly concerned about getting appropriate permission, I think making sure that's sorted is kind of my priority at the moment
[21:11] <Ben__> It's just a bit of a trek to cambridge
[21:11] <jcoxon> nah thats the easier part
[21:11] <jcoxon> ideally you'd build a payload
[21:11] <daveake> It's not hard. Find somewhere handy that's not next to an airport, then fill in the form and send to the CAA
[21:11] <jcoxon> and then while doing extensive testing organise permission
[21:12] <daveake> Do the CAA thing when you're ready
[21:12] <Ben__> mhm
[21:12] <Ben__> My Dad's a prototyper by trade and he does a shedload of model aircraft related stuff so I don't think the payload should be /that/ difficult, just d on't want to get nicked ;)
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[21:13] <daveake> If you apply before you've got a working tracker, you may well feel the need to launch before you're ready.
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[21:13] <jcoxon> well you wouldn't launch without permission of course
[21:13] <jcoxon> and it should take 1month to get
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[21:13] <Ben__> of course not
[21:13] <jcoxon> tis only my advice
[21:13] <Ben__> I'll do some research into applying nearer the time, of course, but it's a good idea to get some idea of design specification before you start building
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[21:14] <Ben__> "well you wouldn't launch without permission of course" of course not * :)
[21:14] <Ben__> ie dammit this thing weighs way more than it sho uld
[21:14] <jcoxon> as i said the permission to launch isn't difficult
[21:14] <jcoxon> there aren't any additional rules
[21:14] <jcoxon> the permssion says that it must be launched on a meterological balloon
[21:14] <jcoxon> and descend by parachute
[21:14] <jcoxon> thats it
[21:14] <Ben__> must be done by parachute?
[21:15] <jcoxon> thats the wording of the permission
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[21:15] <jcoxon> a streamer would also be appropriate i reckon
[21:15] <Ben__> ah
[21:15] <Ben__> I've done some work with quadrotors before and I'll admit while ambitious descending one by quadrotor would be cool
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[21:17] <jcoxon> for a first launch i'd stick to something well tested
[21:17] <Ben__> yeah, descent wise
[21:17] <Ben__> the hardware for said quadrotor is well up and running though
[21:17] <Ben__> THe other thought I had is doesn't GPS stop working at a certain height?
[21:18] <jcoxon> indeed some do
[21:18] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:guides
[21:18] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[21:18] <Upu> boom multi wiki
[21:20] <Ben__> *reads*
[21:20] <Ben__> thanks guys :D
[21:21] <Ben__> Is arduino a good platform to work around? It'd make development easier for me
[21:22] <jcoxon> yes
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[21:23] <Ben__> alrighty
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:24] <RocketBoy> hey LL
[21:26] <daveake> evening LunarLander
[21:26] <daveake> :p
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[21:28] <Upu> btw Lunar_Lander /msg nickserv help
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[21:30] <Upu> so you can register your nickname
[21:30] <daveake> In case LunarLander wants to be Lunar_Lander
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> well I registered
[21:32] <mfa298> i think there's an additional command for nickserv that means you have to log in for you nick
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yes, everything's fine, thanks
[21:33] <mfa298> i think by deafult you got have to login,
[21:33] <mfa298> but if you've set that its good
[21:33] <nigelvh> By default it will ask you to login but won't force a nick change if you don't
[21:33] Nick change: daveake -> Lunar_LanderU
[21:33] <Lunar_LanderU> hmm
[21:33] <nigelvh> You can set it to force
[21:33] Nick change: Lunar_LanderU -> daveake
[21:34] <nigelvh> In which case you get 30 seconds to identify before it changes you to Guest#####
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea I know that feature but not how to activate it
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> how comes you are suddenly so concerned about it?
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> L_LU is for the university
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> daveake
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[21:42] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: try /msg NickServ SET ENFORCE ON
[21:42] <mfa298> from http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#registering
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[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> did it
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:44] <mfa298> it's a bit of a pain finding all the info for nickserv
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:47] <mfa298> I hadn't realised you could send nickserv a help command - pretty obvious though
[21:48] <mfa298> hmmm, just noticed I appear to have moved onto IPv6 :D, I wonder when that happened.
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[21:51] <fsphil> lol
[21:51] <fsphil> most people do it intentionally
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[21:55] <mfa298> I've had ipv6 for ages but i couldn't get irssi to connect to irc on ipv6
[21:55] <mfa298> but seems like it's happened at some point recently
[21:55] <fsphil> aah gotcha
[21:56] <mfa298> I think the system my irssi client sits on had some v6 issues. Other machines seemed to be better with it.
[21:57] <fsphil> I was amazed how well all my programs worked with ipv6
[21:58] <fsphil> once it was enabled on the network, everything just worked
[21:58] <mfa298> although I could break everything at some point and try moving my tunnel onto the adsl router now but then I have to learn firewalling on ios
[21:58] <mfa298> mostly it's not too bad. I've had issues with running ipv6 dhcp
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[21:58] <fsphil> I avoided dhcp for ipv6
[21:59] <mfa298> and there were bits of the linux v6 stack I've not liked (when I started ip6tables was pretty poor)
[21:59] <fsphil> I've radvd on the router, and the machines autoconfigure
[21:59] <mfa298> I wanted to experiemnt with dhcpv6, the ddns stuff is the worst with it but that's an isc issue.
[22:01] <mfa298> I think for now it's something to stay well away from though unless you need it
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[22:23] <johnboiles> no word from K6RPT-12 huh?
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[22:23] <johnboiles> what was the estimate for it to get to europe/africa?
[22:24] <johnboiles> *time estimate
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[22:24] <jcoxon> sadly nothing
[22:24] <jcoxon> should have been a few hours ago
[22:24] <johnboiles> bummer
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:25] <johnboiles> are there many aprs receivers over north africa, perhaps it's flying along an unpopulated path
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> hope K6RPT-13 makes it across
[22:26] <jcoxon> there is certainy that chance
[22:26] <cm13g09> we're thinking we can hear something possibly right down in the noise here in Southampton
[22:26] <cm13g09> but then it may just be us
[22:26] <jcoxon> you would have hoped that the azores or canary islands would have heard it if it was heading for north africa
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> it was aiming for Morocco if you extrapolate
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> but should have been in radio range of Portugal or Spain
[22:27] <johnboiles> truth
[22:29] <M0NSA> never know, it could have been abducted by aliens
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[22:33] <mfa298> even though it might have been in range of some stations would they have known to be on the right freq.
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> you mean cause the european APRS frequency is different?
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[22:35] <mfa298> I know at least the UK is different (and I assume europe is 144.8 as well)
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> USA is 144.39 or so
[22:36] <arko> ye[
[22:36] <arko> yep*
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[22:36] <fsphil> shame that
[22:36] <mfa298> need to persuade them to try rtty on hf, then we might get some packets accross the atlantic
[22:38] <nigelvh> That would also let me track it from Washington
[22:39] <g0hww> evening. i just asked in #nasa if they'd mind getting their bods on the ISS to have a listen for an MIA balloon, but no answer yet
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[22:46] <arko> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-384
[22:46] <arko> eroomde: ^^^ AW YEAH
[22:48] <Upu> objectives : More Awesome
[22:51] <arko> UP
[22:51] <arko> YUP*
[22:51] <arko> sorry, im just glad we can finally talk about this
[22:52] <arko> they haven't given the final "go" but it's within budget
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[22:52] <arko> and everything is pointing to it happening
[22:52] <Upu> hope they can find enough plutonium for it
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[22:55] <jcoxon> whats the recommended WIDE setting for balloons on APRS again?
[22:55] <arko> 1-1
[22:55] <nigelvh> I generally use WIDE2-1
[22:55] <arko> 2-1
[22:56] <arko> yeah
[22:56] <nigelvh> WIDE1-1 will hit the fill in digis which could be a large number
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[22:56] <nigelvh> WIDE2-1 will still limit to one hop, but only the larger digis will answer to 2 or more.
[22:59] <nigelvh> That's why they recommend a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 for cars, as then you've got a chance to hit a fill in digi, to reach a main digipeater, otherwise, you hit two main digipeaters and the result is the same.
[23:00] <jcoxon> okay so for the payload i've got sitting on my desk and i've got my aprs station on digipeat
[23:00] <jcoxon> i'd want to get my station to digipeat the payload
[23:00] <nigelvh> Is your station on digipeat, or igate?
[23:01] <jcoxon> digipeat
[23:01] <jcoxon> (just using xastir)
[23:01] <jcoxon> so I'd set the payload to WIDE2-2
[23:01] <jcoxon> of wait WIDE2-1
[23:01] <nigelvh> k, then it just depends on your settings. There's nothing that says a fill in digi *cant* digipeat a WIDE2 or more, it's just a configuration that's considered best practice.
[23:01] <jcoxon> as it would hop through my station then onto another where it could be Igated
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[23:07] <nigelvh> Is that possibly helpful?
[23:09] <jcoxon> stll having a play around :-)
[23:10] <nigelvh> K, well, I haven't played with xastir, but generally digipeat software has settings to define what packets it will actually digipeat.
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[23:12] <jcoxon> it seems to be that if i set my payload to WIDE1-1 my aprs station will digipeat it
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[23:21] <jcoxon> nigelvh, got it
[23:29] <nigelvh> Did you find the setting to allow 2-1?
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[23:32] <jcoxon> so i needed to do WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1
[23:32] <jcoxon> therefore my home station did WIDE1*
[23:33] <jcoxon> and then the local digi could pass it on
[23:33] <nigelvh> Well, that will digipeat twice, which isn't preferable for a balloon
[23:33] <jcoxon> oh no this is more for my current setup on the ground
[23:34] <jcoxon> just wanted to see that a packet could enter the system
[23:34] <Dan-K2VOL> hey james
[23:34] <nigelvh> Ah, ok, then yes, actually a WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1 is generally recommended for ground stations
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[23:34] <jcoxon> nigelvh, my beacon is solar powered :-)
[23:35] <nigelvh> Fancy
[23:35] <Dan-K2VOL> nice jcoxon
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:35] <nigelvh> Howdy Lunar.
[23:35] <jcoxon> sitting under a lamp charging up its supercaps
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, nigelvh Dan-K2VOL do you want to see what my own engineering completed today?
[23:35] <nigelvh> Robot girlfriend?
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/t/k/5yvlqf-jhzbjh-y3ok/IMG6297.jpeg
[23:36] <nigelvh> Looks like you've got you some bits on a perfboard.
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:36] <nigelvh> One of them appears to be an arduino
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> basically I made this one https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10549
[23:37] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[23:38] <nigelvh> shiny
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> I was told though that the XTAL should be closer to the CPU
[23:38] <nigelvh> I was going to mention that.
[23:38] <nigelvh> Generally as close as possible
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:39] <nigelvh> I would also generally recommend (in this photo) putting the SD socket nearer the bottom right corner. Because all the SPI lines are on that corner of the chip
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> that would also mean to move the level shifter there
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> the NXP chip
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> I think in that design I can't change that anymore
[23:41] <nigelvh> Or running the arduino at 3.3V
[23:41] <nigelvh> Then just drop the level shifter.
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[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea but the linksprite camera generally runs at 5V
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> but you are right
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> as the 5V mode requires that stepup
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> and the one you see there delivers 100 mA
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> which is appearently too little
[23:42] <nigelvh> Yeah
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> so we are looking at improving that part still
[23:42] <nigelvh> But if it works then really that's the important part
[23:42] <nigelvh> The rest is just nit-picking
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[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> well it is supposed to flash the LED if no card is in
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> that it does
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> but with card and camera attached it does nothing
[23:45] <nigelvh> Handy
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> and I suspect this is because it is drawing all the available current
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> camera works if wired directly to the FTDI
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[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> and writing to the card works too if using a test code
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[23:46] <nigelvh> Try running a different 5V regulator, perhaps off a bench supply
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> but the cam uses 80-100 mA and SD may use up to 100 mA as well
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:46] <nigelvh> For reference, here's the first balloon board I did. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/CIMG0004-1024.jpg
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> on the FTDI it doesn't work too, what's the current limit for USB?
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[23:46] <zyp> 500 mA for enumerated devices
[23:46] <nigelvh> USB is limited to 500mA
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:46] <zyp> for usb2
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:46] <zyp> IIRC 900 mA for usb3
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> my laptop is a IBM T23 from 2003
[23:47] Action: jcoxon smiles at the icon that is used for GB2RN
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> so that is maybe USB 2 but it sometimes
[23:47] <zyp> and more for a device which is only charging, not transferring data
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> win XP sometimes says stuff about how my USB stick could improve performance on USB 2 or so
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> so that might be USB 1 even
[23:47] <zyp> usb1 power specs are same as usb2
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:47] <nigelvh> Then some of your ports are probably usb1
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea, there are two
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> and it says it on both
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> well, I'll find out what is wrong
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> hopefully
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:49] <nigelvh> Check for shorts, I don't know how much power the camera should draw, but I would think you could power the whole thing under 500mA
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> camera is said to be running at "80-100 mA"
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> and the original board has a TI TPS62100 able to deliver 600 mA
[23:51] <jcoxon> night all
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
[23:51] <nigelvh> Night
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> linksprite website also just says 80-100 mA
[23:52] <nigelvh> You should measure it
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[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> and I got the SD 100 mA figure from adafruit
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> that module is the most painstaiking device I worked with so far
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> all the other sensors and stuff were mostly plug & play
[23:53] <nigelvh> Do you mean the camera or the SD card?
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> the camera
[23:54] <nigelvh> Yes, cameras are tricky.
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> I use OpenLog for my SD but I experimented with running the SD on it's own already
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> I thought of making a SD datalogger weather station with arduino Uno as a spin off from the balloon
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[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> I remember a saying I read in a book on Windows 95
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> "Plug & Pray"
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:55] <nigelvh> That was especially true then.
[23:56] <nigelvh> Anyway, time for me to go home. I'll chat with y'all later.
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[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> one thing though
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> I had to go back to Arduino 0022 as the code is not ported to 1.0+ yet
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:57] <nigelvh> Yep. I keep both installed.
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:57] <nigelvh> Anyway, home time. Talk to you later.
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> see you later/tomorrow
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 5 2012