highaltitude.log.20121129

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[00:08] <KF7FER> So this is a REAL stupid question, but why does my id keep changing without my help? I always login as KF7FER, but I end up as KF7FER2. Is there more than one of me? I am fat enough but I only seem to have 1x each of the critical parts of me :-)
[00:09] <RG_LZ1DEV> on irc?
[00:09] <KF7FER> yeah, sorry I should have said that. Perhaps it's a buggy client?
[00:10] <RG_LZ1DEV> if you dropped from your previous session, the server has to timeout to drop the nickname
[00:10] <RG_LZ1DEV> and then when you reconnect before the drop the nickname is still in use
[00:10] <RG_LZ1DEV> so your client adds '2'
[00:11] <KF7FER> ah, ok. That makes sense. Thanks.
[00:11] <RG_LZ1DEV> to get you connected
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[07:09] <x-f> good morning
[07:11] <x-f> any of you involved with the Reaction Engines?
[07:11] <x-f> they have some good news - http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_updates.html
[07:11] <x-f> "(..) Reaction Engines has shown the world that Britain remains at the forefront of technological innovation and can get ahead in the global race. This technology could revolutionise the future of air and space travel."
[07:13] Action: Upu points at eroomde
[07:14] <x-f> (thought so)
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[07:26] <arko> Evening
[07:27] <Darkside> right
[07:27] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/a/LVnYh
[07:27] <Darkside> there's my clone of Upu's pAVA board
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[08:00] <costyn> Darkside: looks nice
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[08:09] <natrium42> the 45 deg chip looks leet
[08:12] <eroomde> Darkside: but isn't pAVA sort of a descendent of uNut?
[08:12] <eroomde> there is too much incest
[08:12] <eroomde> won't somebody think of the gene pool?
[08:13] <UpuWork> lol I was thinking that on the way in, if there is some fundemental flaw in these boards we are doomed
[08:13] <UpuWork> still theres only so many ways you can arrange an ATMega328, a MAX6 and a RFm22B on a 25mm x 50mm PCB
[08:14] <costyn> eroomde: haha
[08:14] <eroomde> it's cool though actually
[08:14] <eroomde> maybe my despair yesterday was just misplaced
[08:15] <daveake> You keep getting these made in China; think of the PCBPool
[08:15] <eroomde> the technology has not 'stalled'
[08:15] <eroomde> it's 'matured'
[08:15] <UpuWork> far from it
[08:15] <UpuWork> smaller and oddly slower
[08:15] <UpuWork> but slower is better
[08:15] <eroomde> like how cars all look the same now
[08:15] <eroomde> cos everyone's realised that's sort of the way to do it
[08:16] <eroomde> does anyone elses's houses have those little 25W halogen spots?
[08:16] <eroomde> the ones you recess into ceiling fittings
[08:16] <UpuWork> no I have full fat 500's
[08:16] <UpuWork> oh
[08:16] <UpuWork> inside
[08:16] <eroomde> i seem to loose about 1/day
[08:16] <UpuWork> yes they do blow alot
[08:16] <UpuWork> GU18's ?
[08:16] <eroomde> there are 7 in the kitchen
[08:16] <eroomde> they all worked 1 month ago
[08:17] <eroomde> now only 3 do
[08:17] <daveake> You can get LED ones
[08:17] <eroomde> i might go for that
[08:18] <daveake> I replaced all the R80s in our kitchen with them. The beam is a bit more pointy so I also added LED strings under and over the wall units
[08:19] <daveake> The spots run direct from the mains; the strings need a transformer
[08:23] <costyn> eroomde: yea ... I had those, strangely the 12v ones just kept going. I replaced them all with LED versions though. The 12v ones were eating 160W, now only 48W for 8 spots
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[08:24] <eroomde> nice
[08:24] <eroomde> ok i might do this
[08:25] <costyn> eroomde: it seems mostly the 220/240v ones die a lot
[08:25] <costyn> eroomde: you might be put off by the price difference though. especially dimmable LED spots are still quite expensive
[08:26] <eroomde> if it's with x10 the halogens, could well be worth it financially!
[08:26] <eroomde> within*
[08:27] <costyn> it's not that bad :)
[08:28] <costyn> and yes, those led spots will reportedly last you 20 years, with 8-10 'on' hours per day
[08:29] <daveake> I wish pilots would check the dates on a notam, instead of assuming it includes "today"
[08:29] <costyn> and in the industry they define 'dead' of producing 70 or 80% of the original light. apparenlty the LEDs just keep going, but give off less lumens
[08:30] <UpuWork> phone calls already daveake ?
[08:30] <daveake> Yeah one just now
[08:30] <UpuWork> concerned they are flying a plane and they don't even know what day it is
[08:30] <daveake> lol
[08:31] <daveake> Still, at least this time the notam is only for a short period. Last time it was 9 days and I got a bit fed up of the calls
[08:32] <nosebleedkt> hi people!
[08:32] <UpuWork> morning nosebleedkt
[08:33] <costyn> daveake: heh, that is worrying... I guess they're annoyed with the extra paperwork and just skip to the phone number listed
[08:33] <gonzo___> is it not poss to put a mobile phone number and leave an aswerphone message with launch details for the pilots?
[08:33] <eroomde> daveake: imagine having a permenent notam
[08:33] <eroomde> for 3 years
[08:33] <gonzo___> or does there have to be someone to talk to?
[08:33] <daveake> eroomde: I have. Not happening!
[08:34] <eroomde> it was a massive arse
[08:34] <daveake> Well, Steve has a link to a page on his website included in the notam. Perhaps that would help.
[08:35] <daveake> The permission says "the number MUST be monitored throughout the launch period"
[08:36] <jonsowman> it _is_ a massive arse
[08:36] <costyn> not much room for interpretation there
[08:36] <jonsowman> not that I don't enjoy being woken up by pilots at 6am
[08:36] <daveake> lol
[08:36] <daveake> Yeah I keep the mobile next to the bed at night just in case
[08:37] <daveake> They do tend to call at 6am
[08:37] <eroomde> i have had a few answerphone messages
[08:38] <eroomde> [nasal and officious]: "reporting of the *un*manned telephone number shall be made herewith to the authorities.." blah
[08:38] <jonsowman> oh yes
[08:38] <eroomde> just call them back and that usually deflates them
[08:40] <gonzo___> wonder is a recorded message with the details and inviting them to leave a message that 'will' be returned is sufficient enopugh to me monitopring? At least most will get the info and go away?
[08:41] <eroomde> anyhoo here is the press release for anyone interested
[08:41] <eroomde> http://www.parabolicarc.com/2012/11/28/44703/
[08:45] <costyn> eroomde: exciting stuff!
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[08:55] <nosebleedkt> Hi people
[08:55] <nosebleedkt> is any way that i make lightweight antennas?
[08:55] <nosebleedkt> instead of buying and put heavy ones on the paylaod
[08:56] <nosebleedkt> i need for 144 and 433 mhz
[08:57] <Darkside> i've got a diplexer design that you might like
[08:57] <Darkside> lets you use a dual-band handheld whip antenna on both 2m and 70cm
[08:58] <Darkside> it also acts as a former for teh antenna ground plane
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[09:00] <nosebleedkt> Darkside,
[09:00] <nosebleedkt> i have 2 separate radios
[09:00] <Darkside> yes
[09:01] <nosebleedkt> attached to 2 antennas
[09:01] <Darkside> the point of the diplexer is to combine the signals from the 2 radios into one antenna
[09:01] <nosebleedkt> wow!
[09:01] <nosebleedkt> thats the best
[09:01] <Darkside> UpuWork: got any diplexer boards?
[09:01] <nosebleedkt> does it have negative performance?
[09:01] <Darkside> nosebleedkt: has a small bit of insertion loss, something like 0.1dB
[09:01] <Darkside> not bad tho
[09:02] <UpuWork> yep
[09:02] <UpuWork> checking
[09:02] <Darkside> you'll still need a HT antenna to go on it
[09:02] <nosebleedkt> Darkside,
[09:02] <Darkside> we fly Comet SMA-24's, but i dunno if you can get those anymore
[09:02] <UpuWork> 5
[09:02] <nosebleedkt> can you send me a picture of it ?
[09:02] <nosebleedkt> maybe i tell my guru friend here to make one diplexer
[09:02] <Darkside> uhm
[09:03] <UpuWork> http://www.projectswift.co.uk/
[09:03] <Darkside> its not so much it being a diplexer
[09:03] <Darkside> its more how it also formt the antenna
[09:03] <Darkside> not sure if i have a pic of how that works
[09:03] <nosebleedkt> not how it works
[09:03] <Darkside> and i wouldn't use it with those sma sockets
[09:03] <nosebleedkt> but a pic with de device itseldf
[09:03] <Darkside> nosebleedkt: see the link upu just posted
[09:03] <nosebleedkt> Darkside, i moved to bnc
[09:03] <Darkside> move back to sma
[09:04] <nosebleedkt> lol
[09:05] <Darkside> you could use bnc for the connections form teh diplexer to the radios
[09:05] <Darkside> its just heavier
[09:05] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/5KpxV.jpg
[09:06] <Darkside> sorry abotu the bad pic
[09:06] <Darkside> but you can see how theres a sma socket in the centre, which you screw a handheld antenna onto
[09:06] <UpuWork> not sure about launching an angle poise lamp Darkside :)
[09:06] <Darkside> then you can run cables from the 2m and 70cm ports inside the payload
[09:06] <Darkside> UpuWork: haha
[09:08] <nosebleedkt> omg
[09:08] <nosebleedkt> sounds much more complex
[09:09] <Darkside> nosebleedkt: lighter than having 2 antennas
[09:10] <Darkside> your other option is to have the standard 1/4 wave for 70cm, and have a 2m slim jim, or jpole above your payload
[09:10] <nosebleedkt> yeah but needs extra pcb which i hate !
[09:10] Nick change: nick__ -> nick_
[09:10] <nosebleedkt> 2m slim jib ?
[09:11] <Darkside> http://www.southgatearc.org/techtips/slimjim.htm
[09:11] <Darkside> you can make them out of ribbon cable
[09:16] <nosebleedkt> seems like a work for my guru friends
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[09:33] <costyn> Darkside: the active element is the outside of the ribbon you solder together right, but where do you connect the ground?
[09:33] <costyn> or does this also need a ground plane?
[09:34] <costyn> sorry
[09:34] <costyn> just saw the coax braid and coax inner attach points
[09:35] <cuddykid> in the news again eroomde :)
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[10:08] <WillDuckworth> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/29/playmonaut_mission/
[10:15] <costyn> lol, in the other article: "The other component, just to the left of GPS receiver, is a DS18B20 temperature sensor, presumably to measure whether passing gear aficionados are in danger of spontaneously combusting as they admire the tracker's magnificent form."
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[10:16] <daveake> Chinese DS18B20. It'd probably just melt
[10:17] <costyn> hehe
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[10:51] <jdtanner_> Adium is having a fir this morning
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[10:51] <jdtanner_> fit
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[10:59] <costyn> jdtanner: never have any probs with it
[10:59] <jdtanner> Me neither normally&I think it might be OSX 10.8.2
[10:59] <jdtanner> it cocks up my wireless
[11:00] <jdtanner> I found some interesting behaviour with dtostrf this morning which I'll shout into the aether just in case anyone else has a problem :)
[11:01] <costyn> jdtanner: I haven't bothered upgrading to 10.8
[11:01] <jdtanner> My thoughts regarding the following line: dtostrf(outsideTemp, 6, 2, outsideTempBuffer);
[11:01] <jdtanner> are that declaring char outsideTempBuffer[6] should work
[11:02] <fsphil> doesn't leave room for the null terminator
[11:02] <jdtanner> Bril...argh
[11:02] <jdtanner> that is it
[11:02] <jdtanner> haha&I've encountered this before&but didn;t document it
[11:02] <costyn> jdtanner: haha... I had the exact same couple weeks ago
[11:02] <jdtanner> lol
[11:03] <costyn> jdtanner: fsphil also came to the rescue for me :)
[11:03] <jdtanner> In the end I thought "bugger it" and delcared outsideTempBuffer[10]
[11:04] <daveake> Most of my arrays end up being the nearest power of 2 in size :p
[11:04] <jdtanner> Up too late last night obviously: It has been staring me in the face all morning & "The minimal size of the buffer s depends on the choice of radix. For example, if the radix is 2 (binary), you need to supply a buffer with a minimal length of 8 * sizeof (int) + 1 characters, i.e. one character for each bit plus one for the string terminator. Using a larger radix will require a smaller minimal buffer size."
[11:04] <jdtanner> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__stdlib.html#ga060c998e77fb5fc0d3168b3ce8771d42
[11:05] <jdtanner> Cheers fsphil ;)
[11:06] <jdtanner> I was ready to chuck the bloody thing out the window this morning&I'm going to blame it on my bad back ;)
[11:06] <jdtanner> costyn: I wouldn't bother upgrading unless you want tighter intyegration with Facebook
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[11:07] <costyn> jdtanner: I don't :)
[11:08] <jdtanner> lol
[11:08] <costyn> jdtanner: also still running IOS 5, I like my google maps, and already have TomTom software (which actually works - really well actually)
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[11:08] <jdtanner> I wish I could roll back!
[11:10] <jdtanner> Why oh why Apple don't allow roll back is beyond me&or at least offer Google Maps as a separate app until they sort their house out.
[11:12] <costyn> yea
[11:12] <costyn> silly that they removed it all together.
[11:13] <costyn> I guess they don't lik Google any more since all the Android squabbles
[11:13] <costyn> bwahaha http://www.cultofmac.com/192441/apple-aggressively-going-after-google-maps-engineers-to-fix-its-new-maps-service-report/
[11:16] <jdtanner> typical! I've installed Maps+ (ISTR) which is basically Google Maps...
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[11:32] <cuddykid> yeah - I found the apple maps to be a real pain when chasing - so much easier when I was cross checking google maps on mac + iPhone
[11:32] <cuddykid> well, in general, their maps are awful
[11:51] <Randomskk> anyone remember what the regs are on transporting helium by car?
[11:52] <RG_LZ1DEV> probably dont inhale while driving
[11:53] <Randomskk> I'm more interested in things like vehicle signage, transportation limits, etc.
[11:53] <mattbrejza> we were told we didnt need a sign when picking up a cylinder a while back
[11:54] <daveake> I don't know the answer, but when Steve checked re H2 he said for 1 cylinder you don't even need the mag signs (surprisingly). For 2/3 (not sure which) you do
[11:54] <mattbrejza> window open is probably advised though
[11:54] <Randomskk> window open is certainly advisable
[11:54] <daveake> Pickup truck is advised
[11:54] <Randomskk> yea, that's better yet
[11:55] <costyn> mattbrejza: or just don't put your air system on recirculate
[11:55] <daveake> Well, having the cylinder in a separate compartment
[11:55] <Randomskk> my concern is mostly about signage really
[11:55] <Randomskk> and possibly insurance complication
[11:55] <mattbrejza> golf cart?
[11:55] <daveake> Well the signs are cheap
[11:55] <Randomskk> but you are not meant to display them unless you need them
[11:55] <daveake> I have the green gas cylinder one and the red inflammable gas one
[11:56] <Randomskk> the latter for H2?
[11:56] <daveake> Yes
[11:56] <Randomskk> maybe I should get the oxidiser one. hm.
[11:56] <Randomskk> don't think it's required for the volumes involved though
[11:56] <daveake> I put them on when I collect the gas, and (if I remember) take them off after dropping them off
[11:58] <gonzo___> if you have an LPG system in the car, the installation just has a cover over the valve gear that is vented out in case of slow leaks
[11:58] <gonzo___> even then an LPG sign is only advised
[12:04] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/TrendCollectBot/status/274093610859905026
[12:04] <eroomde> whoda thunk!
[12:04] <daveake> :)
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[12:28] <Laurenceb> "SABRE, an air-breathing rocket engine, utilises both jet turbine and rocket technology. Its innovative pre-cooler technology is designed to cool the incoming airstream from over 1,000ÚC to minus 150ÚC in less than 1/100th of a second"
[12:28] <Laurenceb> oops
[12:30] <Darkside> oops?
[12:30] <Laurenceb> wrong character encoding
[12:30] <Darkside> came out fine here
[12:30] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:30] <costyn> same
[12:31] <Darkside> ÚÚÚÚÚÚÚ
[12:31] <Laurenceb> shows as EsC here
[12:31] <costyn> looked like garbage in the article though
[12:33] <Randomskk> looks fine here too
[12:33] <Randomskk> l2unicode, Laurenceb
[12:33] <Randomskk> :P
[12:33] <Randomskk> (though really for html you'd be better using html escape codes)
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/150878483847?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0
[12:59] <Laurenceb> nice - runs openwrt and has usb otg and ethernet
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[13:39] <costyn> Laurenceb: where would you use it? In your car? Or fixed installation where there's no landlines?
[13:39] <Laurenceb> i was planning to experiment with some wifi positioning
[13:39] <Laurenceb> using MAC level packet timing
[13:40] <Laurenceb> looks quite an interesting technique, but id need some cheap nodes running openwrt
[13:40] <Laurenceb> that one has the advantage that it only takes 100ma @3.3v, so nice for battery power
[13:40] <costyn> and why/where would you use this?
[13:41] <Laurenceb> for positioning indoors
[13:41] <costyn> whats the accuracy?
[13:43] <Laurenceb> ~4m
[13:46] <x-f> Laurenceb, how do you know those power requirements? its description mentions 5V 1A
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[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you mean with external hardware?
[13:57] <Laurenceb> z-f: becnhmarks on openwrt site
[13:57] <Laurenceb> its about the lowest power supported device
[13:58] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: you can get 1us timestamps
[13:58] <Laurenceb> tcpdump -I wlan0
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> you can get 1us reported granularity timestamps.
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[13:59] <craag> Laurenceb: How does that give you ~4m?
[13:59] <Laurenceb> www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/fg112/Papers/hoene_paper2.pdf
[13:59] <Laurenceb> like that
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> are you sure these have any basis in reality beyond a few millisexods?
[13:59] <Laurenceb> but people have taken it further since then
[13:59] <Laurenceb> doing xtal drift correction etc
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> I am unsure the hardware will timestamp incoming packets, so you are relying on the hosats interrupot response
[14:00] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:00] <Laurenceb> its done at hardware level
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> which will vary according to cache status, and the weather
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> k
[14:00] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:00] <Laurenceb> this is the MAC layer timestamping
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> I guess it strongly depends on chip set
[14:00] <craag> So you take a lot of measurements at 300m accuracy and use intelligent averaging?
[14:00] <Laurenceb> so you need monitor support from your drivers
[14:01] <Laurenceb> cragg: yes
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> multipath may be a bitch
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> will
[14:01] <Laurenceb> but aiui you can ping off a remote AP
[14:01] <Laurenceb> and grab its timestamps
[14:01] <Laurenceb> as the timestamping is done automatically at the MAC level
[14:01] <Laurenceb> you just need a driver at your side to access it
[14:02] <Laurenceb> yeah you need to calibrate well
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> I have extreme doubts multipath won't kill it in practice.
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> you need very clean phase accuracy, and multipath will interfere with that in a possibly data dependant manner
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> i was looking at using it for indoor positioning in commercial environments
[14:04] <Laurenceb> where you can calibrate regularly
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> certainly interesting
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> indoor positioning sucks
[14:04] <Laurenceb> and the only thing to cause extra multipath is workers walking around
[14:04] <costyn> what sort of applications do you need indoor positioning?
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> paint ir dots on the ceiling, and point a camera up. :-)
[14:04] <costyn> warehouses ?
[14:04] <Laurenceb> its for a big brother worker monitoring system :P
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> hoovering
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[14:05] <Laurenceb> reconstruct every workers positions throughout the working day
[14:05] <costyn> SpeedEvil: Roomba random walk not good enough? :)
[14:05] <Laurenceb> companies will way big money for it
[14:05] <costyn> Laurenceb: no privacy problems with that at all :)
[14:05] <Laurenceb> im just evil
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> step deaaturation, plus gyros, plus accel and mag is interesting
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> for navigation
[14:06] <Laurenceb> sure
[14:06] <Laurenceb> thats how you would do passive recalibration
[14:06] <Laurenceb> also use RSSI
[14:06] <Laurenceb> kalman filter the lot on a central server
[14:06] <Laurenceb> but time of flight is needed to get decent performance out of the thing
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[14:07] <Laurenceb> with just regular smartphones carried by the employees
[14:07] <Laurenceb> also you have to trade off network conjestion against number of packets
[14:08] <Laurenceb> 1000 ack packets/second is going to screw a CSMA system
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[14:13] <Laurenceb> costyn: supposedly its for "health and safety"
[14:14] <costyn> Laurenceb: just like terrorism, a lot of questionable policies can be implemented for 'health and safety's sake
[14:14] <Laurenceb> :P
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[14:16] <Laurenceb> to be fair it has a use in a chemical plant
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> chemical plants...
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> would those be the things with large metal objects with nice linear or cylindrical sides?
[14:17] <costyn> SpeedEvil: haha
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> to be clear - get it working, and you are more awesome than Celine Dion.
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[16:20] <costyn> SpeedEvil: that isn't very hard is it?
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[18:42] <noonian338> What is the difference between using big or small carrier shifts when sending RTTY?
[18:43] <noonian338> Actually any information about how the configuration of a rtty transmitter affect signal would be great, like buads, parity etc
[18:44] <RG_LZ1DEV> afraik, more power = more interference on nearby frequency hence you need larger shift
[18:45] <mattbrejza> if you space the carriers in an orthognal manner that doesnt matter
[18:45] <mattbrejza> equally with 50 baud it doesnt matter too much with normal shift
[18:45] <mattbrejza> s
[18:47] <fsphil> yea shift has no effect, unless it's less than half the baud rate
[18:47] <fsphil> but best to keep it near a traditional standard shift
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[18:50] <noonian338> Thanks, I followed a tutorial on ukhas with an arduino and I have a shift of 750Hz for some reason, is this bad?
[18:51] <mattbrejza> its not bad, its just that itll go out of the radio recievers bandwidth more offen when the radio drifts
[18:51] <fsphil> it's a bit far from a standard shift
[18:52] <mattbrejza> some of those resistor values are supply voltage dependant
[18:52] <fsphil> try tweaking the resistor values
[18:54] <x-f> what is the standard shift?
[18:55] <x-f> i followed that tutorial and got 600 Hz shift
[18:56] <arko_> good mornig
[18:56] <arko_> morning*
[18:56] Nick change: arko_ -> arko
[18:56] <x-f> morning :)
[18:56] <fsphil> 425Hz is popular :)
[18:57] <fsphil> mornevening arko
[18:57] <arko> :P
[18:57] <arko> whens the next ukhas con? 2013?
[18:57] <fsphil> very likely yea
[18:58] <arko> sweet
[18:58] <arko> summertime?
[18:58] <RG_LZ1DEV> x-f: what resistors did you use?
[18:58] <fsphil> usually autumn arko
[18:59] <fsphil> september or october
[18:59] <arko> oh ok
[18:59] <fsphil> although it's not written in stone
[18:59] <arko> right
[18:59] <arko> i watched the videos on your channel
[19:00] <fsphil> could you hear them ok? the sound is a bit low
[19:00] <arko> on full volume though, I will buy you guys mics
[19:00] <arko> haha
[19:00] <arko> yeah
[19:00] <arko> im like dude i want to know, but i cant hear ya
[19:00] <fsphil> I brought a wireless mic for 2012, but it didn't survive the trip
[19:00] <arko> aww
[19:00] <arko> haha
[19:00] <fsphil> so I'm gonna get one of those clip mics
[19:00] <arko> it's cool, but these sort of talks can be very valuable
[19:01] <arko> awesome
[19:01] <arko> take the word "but" out of that sentence
[19:01] <arko> heh
[19:02] <arko> anyway, it sounds like a cool thing to be at
[19:02] <fsphil> they've been great
[19:02] <arko> i've been thinking about doing an "intro to hab" video as im doing mine for the second time
[19:02] <arko> so many unanswered questions and things to think about\
[19:02] <x-f> RG_LZ1DEV, 4.7k and 20k, 3.3v
[19:03] <arko> ukhas has great documentation though, so i dont think the video would be really helpful
[19:03] <fsphil> some people perfer videos
[19:03] <fsphil> many of the concepts are better explained visually
[19:03] <arko> yeah
[19:04] <arko> like how does the parachute connect to the balloon
[19:04] <RG_LZ1DEV> x-f: what arduino?
[19:04] <arko> i had to do that last minute
[19:04] <fsphil> indeed, and measuring the neck lift
[19:04] <arko> yeah!
[19:04] <daveake> arko upside-down on one of my launches when someone handed me the wrong line :p
[19:04] <fsphil> I was lucky and had someone at launch who could make proper knots
[19:04] <x-f> RG_LZ1DEV, Seeedstudio Stalker
[19:04] <arko> daveake: haha!
[19:04] <arko> that sucks
[19:04] <fsphil> cause if I'd tied them, it would have fallen apart just after launch
[19:05] <daveake> Spotted it when letting the balloon out, so had to pull it back down and reverse the chute
[19:05] <arko> fsphil: yeah we eneded up sewing a tab onto the parachute which connected to the parachute
[19:05] <daveake> edmoore and m0psi both do very good knots
[19:05] <arko> oh good
[19:05] <fsphil> the wiki page on knots is neat
[19:05] <daveake> I just randomly loop things then tape it up
[19:05] <fsphil> I've forgotten how to do them already though
[19:06] <fsphil> if in doubt, duct tape
[19:06] <arko> it's like the Genesis spacecraft we had years ago, where someone installed the accelerometer upside down, so on reentry the parachute never deployed
[19:06] <daveake> oops
[19:06] <fsphil> I remember that
[19:06] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhCrOdbOUkY
[19:06] <arko> good times
[19:07] <arko> question though
[19:08] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/36181973@N00/5045208162/sizes/l/in/photostream/
[19:08] <arko> in this one you can see that it's tied to the top of the chute
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[19:08] <RG_LZ1DEV> x-f: with those values you should be getting around 700hz shift
[19:08] <arko> would it work better if it was tied to the same rope the paachute is on?
[19:09] <arko> so the balloons left overs dont hit parachute on the way down?
[19:10] <fsphil> I never thought doing it that way made sense
[19:10] <fsphil> although it stops the chute opening on the way up
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[19:10] <arko> ?
[19:11] <arko> which way?
[19:11] <x-f> RG_LZ1DEV, i'll inspect my resistors then how much off of their nominals they are
[19:11] <fsphil> in that pic, the chute is tied at the top
[19:11] <arko> right
[19:12] <arko> is that how most people do it?
[19:12] <fsphil> the cord going to the balloon would put weight on the chute if any bits of balloon remained
[19:12] <RG_LZ1DEV> x-f: you probably have vcc as 3.3v and the RXTD pin as 5v
[19:12] <fsphil> not sure which way is most popular actually
[19:13] <arko> http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&roomid=1295&KEY=12850BDD633654E2FE5258339D66E286
[19:13] <arko> like that is bad
[19:13] <arko> i would think tieing it directly to the payload would be smarter
[19:14] <fsphil> hmm.. java not fonund
[19:14] <fsphil> found
[19:14] <fsphil> I tie my parachute to the cord going between the payload and the balloon
[19:14] <fsphil> but at the bottom of the cute rather than the top
[19:14] <arko> ok
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[19:15] <fsphil> so it's dangling upside down during ascent
[19:15] <fsphil> but it means the payload and balloon remains can hang below it
[19:15] <fsphil> without any cord resting on the chute
[19:16] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/zFjEk.png
[19:16] <arko> like this right?
[19:16] <fsphil> exactly
[19:16] <arko> ok
[19:16] <arko> yeah, im thinking of doing it this way
[19:16] <fsphil> the chute is 2/3 of the way up, so the balloon hangs about half way down toward the payload
[19:16] <arko> was wondering if it would be ok, i figured so
[19:16] <arko> oh thats smart
[19:17] <arko> see, its these small things that hang me up
[19:17] <arko> or i screw up on them
[19:17] <fsphil> it's a good plan, Rob H came up with that one I think
[19:17] <arko> then have last min fixes :P
[19:17] <arko> nice
[19:18] <daveake> That's the way I do it ...balloon 1/3rd chute 2/3rd
[19:19] <arko> ok so chute is 1/3 away from the balloon and 2/3 away from the payload
[19:19] <fsphil> yep
[19:19] <arko> makes sense
[19:19] <arko> neato
[19:19] <fsphil> stops the balloon wrapping around the payload
[19:19] <arko> cant wait to get this habex ready
[19:19] <arko> right
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[19:22] <fsphil> I'm not sure where to put a cut-down in that setup
[19:24] <fsphil> ideally it would go right up at the chute
[19:24] <fsphil> but that's a long way from the payload
[19:24] <KT5TK_QRL> BLT-32 Float attempt "To The End Of The World" will have the special callsign N0D (Now Zero Days). 2000g Hwoyee. Launch near Houston 2 x APRS and PSK31 on 18.100 MHz.
[19:24] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.w5acm.net/b32.html
[19:25] <fsphil> kneel before N0D
[19:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Hope it'll float until the end
[19:25] <KT5TK_QRL> ;)
[19:25] <fsphil> that's a big balloon
[19:26] <KT5TK_QRL> We have a 1600 backup
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[19:29] <arko> yeah
[19:30] <arko> i need to get a good cutdown system implemented
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[19:39] <arko> anyone here done H2?
[19:39] <arko> rather than H3
[19:39] <arko> He*
[19:40] <daveake> yes
[19:42] <eroomde> yes
[19:42] <arko> was it terrifying to fill?
[19:42] <eroomde> no
[19:42] <daveake> no
[19:42] <arko> no smoking around it
[19:42] <arko> haha
[19:43] <eroomde> might be staticier in pasedena
[19:43] <eroomde> dunno
[19:45] <arko> heh
[19:45] <arko> desert
[19:47] <eroomde> right, home time
[19:47] <eroomde> brain not up to complicated routing
[19:48] <arko> heh
[19:48] <arko> drive safe
[19:48] <eroomde> willdo
[19:48] <eroomde> ta
[19:48] <arko> i say heh a lot
[19:49] <fsphil> you're in good company
[19:49] <eroomde> infact will wait here another 5
[19:49] <eroomde> just put the car on
[19:49] <eroomde> it's iced up
[19:49] <eroomde> will let the heater do its thing for a wee bit
[19:49] <fsphil> everytime I put my heater on, one of the belts starts squeeling
[19:50] <arko> thats an odd problem i've never had
[19:50] <arko> it snowed here like once in the last 25 years
[19:50] <fsphil> I like snow
[19:52] <x-f> i have it outside, a few centimeters
[19:52] <daveake> So do I now I have a suitable car :)
[19:53] <fsphil> hah
[19:53] <fsphil> yea, the clio seems fine in light snow
[19:53] <fsphil> we rarely get more than a few cm
[19:54] <x-f> lucky you, the forecast is for more than 10 cm tonight here :/
[19:55] <x-f> RG_LZ1DEV, i don't have 5v here, only 3.3v, and 20k is 19k actually
[19:55] <daveake> I have driven the Elise in the snow
[19:56] <jonsowman> fsphil: aux belt, squirt a bit of wd40 on the alternator pulley and see if that shuts it up
[19:56] <daveake> It's like Bambi on ice
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[19:57] <fsphil> will do jonsowman, thanks
[19:58] <fsphil> I had checked if it was tight enough, seemed fine
[19:58] <RG_LZ1DEV> x-f: try http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
[19:58] <RG_LZ1DEV> and play around with the values
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[20:00] <jonsowman> fsphil: doing that will tell you if it's actually the belt slipping
[20:00] <jonsowman> or a bearing somewhere
[20:00] <jonsowman> if it's the belt, replacing the belt will almost certainly solve it
[20:01] <fsphil> it's a new belt
[20:01] <fsphil> replaced it and the timing belt at the same time
[20:01] <jonsowman> do you know if the idler & tensioner were changed at the same time?
[20:01] <jonsowman> could be a bearing somewhere squealing
[20:02] <fsphil> that I don't know
[20:02] <fsphil> when it squeals, the lights dim and the fans slow a bit
[20:02] <jonsowman> my old alternator used to squeal, I spent ages trying to work out what it is
[20:02] <jonsowman> that does sound like a slipping belt
[20:02] <fsphil> yea
[20:03] <jonsowman> check the belt tension maybe
[20:03] <jonsowman> could be the tensioner as well, I had mine changed with the belt last year
[20:04] <fsphil> will get a look at that tomorrow. will have to google a bit so I know what I'm looking for
[20:04] <jonsowman> the timing belt is usually under a cover
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> get your cars Haynes manual.
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> but don't believe it too strongly.
[20:06] <jonsowman> it is referred to as The Book Of Lies on the 406 forums :)
[20:06] <jonsowman> but it is indeed useful for some things
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/fascia.jpg
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> this was a five minute job
[20:06] <jonsowman> what a beautiful interior
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> it escalated somewhat after finding out Nissan had removed an access panel
[20:07] <jonsowman> i know that feeling
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> after I'd pushed the heater cxontroll panel back into the fascia
[20:07] <jonsowman> "oh I'll just fix this thing quickly..."
[20:07] <jonsowman> two hours later the entire dashboard is out
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> thankfully, the book was wrong, and the steering wheel doesn't have to come off
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> in short.
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> read all the steps
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> verify as far as you can that your hardware matches
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> before starting
[20:10] <jonsowman> heh, yes
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[20:31] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> evening
[20:32] <Upu> evening
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[20:42] <jcoxon> so what is launching tomorrow?
[20:45] <Upu> PAVA
[20:45] <Upu> and QAVA but technically they are one and the same
[20:45] <Upu> its a PAVA board with an Adafruit GPS strapped to it
[20:45] <Upu> if you get a PAVA telemetry string its from Ublox
[20:45] <Upu> QAVA is from the Adafruit
[20:47] <Upu> 1600g H2 may float
[20:47] <Upu> battery will only last 12 hours
[20:47] <Upu> its only goal is to get above 40km
[20:48] <daveake> Are Adafruit expecting their GPS to work up to 40km and no further?
[20:48] <Upu> Truth ? They have no idea
[20:49] <Upu> the old one stopped at 27km
[20:49] <Upu> they've been told by the manufacturer this one is good for 40km
[20:49] <Upu> it may just stop
[20:49] <Upu> it may go above it
[20:49] <daveake> Well as we're not chasing it, I'd just go for max alt and see what it does
[20:49] <Upu> thats the plan
[20:50] <Upu> shame I can't reprogram it or I'd up baud rate
[20:50] <Upu> but its been sealed in a ball for 2 months
[20:50] <daveake> ah lol
[20:51] <daveake> And it's just swapping between PAVA and QAVA sentences?
[20:51] <jcoxon> boo to 12hrs
[20:51] <Upu> well it gives the software serial about a second or so to respond with something that passes a checksum
[20:51] <jcoxon> needs more
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[20:52] <Upu> if it doesn't it just gets on an TX's from the ublox
[20:52] <Upu> in testing its about 1 QAVA to 3 PAVAS
[20:52] <daveake> Upu can you add a battery or is that all sealed in?
[20:52] <Upu> yeah sorry jcoxon when I glued the ball together I hadn't through about making it longer
[20:53] <Upu> err
[20:53] <Upu> if you want to really seriously pikey it up we could tape one to the outside :)
[20:53] <Upu> but could cause issues if it fell off
[20:53] <daveake> It's not me that pikey-ups frankentrackers :D
[20:54] <Upu> nah leave it as one
[20:54] <Upu> we can do floatly stuff with a 1.8V payload
[20:55] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:56] <jcoxon> i plan to do my christmas eve traditional flight i think
[20:56] <Upu> super
[20:56] <Upu> see if I can get you an APRS tracker for that
[20:56] <Upu> btw I was wondering
[20:56] <Upu> if I could apply for a NoV to my license
[20:56] <Upu> to allow TX of APRS in the air whilst over UK
[20:57] <jcoxon> you could certainly apply
[20:57] <Upu> they'll probably reject it on the grounds no way to turn the beacon off in two hours
[20:57] <Upu> unless you have a Eurofigther to hand
[20:57] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:59] <Upu> Earliest I can apply is June next year
[20:59] <Upu> hi Lunar
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:01] <Upu> afk :)
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[21:04] <arko> there we go, i added "Powered by CUSF Hourly Predictor to the title of the predictor im running http://predictor.habexproject.org/
[21:04] <arko> :)
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[21:05] <jonsowman> thanks on behalf of CUSF ;)
[21:05] <arko> i should be thanking you!
[21:05] <arko> i hate not giving credit where credit is due
[21:05] <arko> plus i set this up half drunk last time
[21:05] <jonsowman> haha
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[21:12] <g7ogx> where's the action?! qth bognor regis trying to find freq of balloon "Roll" please
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[21:20] <daveake> That was a test. It flies on Saturday
[21:21] <daveake> The next flight is PAVA/QAVA tomorrow
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[21:48] <eroomde> ssd failed
[21:48] <eroomde> wooooo
[21:48] <eroomde> /usr/ hosed
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> damn, that sounds like an expensive failure
[21:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdu71bSVGi1qjr9sx.gif
[21:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> ahh, i was looking for
[21:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcsnp67iCM1qdntjwo1_250.gif
[21:52] <RG_LZ1DEV> more related, etc
[21:52] <arko> haha
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[21:54] <Laurenceb_> did you exceed the 4 write cycles or something?
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> /troll
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> to be fair my normal hard drive failed a few weeks ago
[21:57] <RG_LZ1DEV> raid 5 with SSDs
[21:57] <RG_LZ1DEV> i dare you
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[22:02] <SpeedEvil> why did I part?
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[22:35] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[22:43] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_9eYcGIT88&hd=1
[22:43] <arko> wow
[22:44] <arko> thats an awesome time to launch
[22:45] <Darkside> heh
[22:45] <Darkside> that magazine called us up asking if we could 'pop uo to cairns' and to the launch for them
[22:45] <Darkside> they didn't seem to relise that cains is 3 days drive away
[22:45] <Darkside> cairns*
[22:45] <arko> haha
[22:46] <arko> it's a big country
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[22:52] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[23:01] <g7ogx> sooo pava/quava and roll tomorrow great looking forward to that
[23:02] <g7ogx> no pava/quava tomorrow and "Roll" on Saturday Doh!
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 30 2012