[00:03] <fsphil> what does x10 mean in the context of oscilloscope probes?
[00:03] <Randomskk> attenuate signal by ten
[00:03] <Randomskk> means the probe itself loads the circuit under test 1/10th the amount
[00:03] <Randomskk> but the voltage sent to the oscope is 1/10th the amount too
[00:03] <Randomskk> (the scope usually has a button to multiply voltages on-screen by ten to make up for it)
[00:04] <fsphil> ah gotcha
[00:04] <Randomskk> typically used when the scope on x1 loads your circuit too much so that it actually affects it
[00:04] <Randomskk> also you can use it for measuring too-high voltages :P
[00:04] <fsphil> yea I was just watching a video where someone connected the scope directly with just clips <> bnc
[00:05] <Randomskk> ew
[00:05] <fsphil> was just a demo, they connected it to a function generator
[00:05] <m0psi> hi Randomskk, have you had a chance to compile a new version of DL-fldigi?
[00:05] <Randomskk> oh! not yet
[00:05] <Randomskk> hang on maybe I can do that right now
[00:05] <m0psi> ok, no rsh
[00:05] <m0psi> that would be cool
[00:06] <m0psi> i'm very close to being able to send data, so very timely ta
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[00:51] <Randomskk> m0psi: still around?
[00:53] <m0psi> y
[00:54] <m0psi> still here randomskk
[00:54] <m0psi> faffing with tinygps! :-(
[00:55] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/files/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-DL3.0-macosx-4df21eb-7004667.zip
[00:55] <Randomskk> forgot how long that takes to sort out and do
[00:55] <Randomskk> ugh
[00:55] <Randomskk> anyway
[00:55] <Randomskk> there you go
[00:55] <Randomskk> I don't think it'l load the list of flights
[00:55] <Randomskk> so no autoconfigure etc
[00:55] <Randomskk> and it'l whine that there's a new version available even though there isn't
[00:55] <Randomskk> so don't worry about those things
[00:55] <Randomskk> but maybe it won't crash
[00:56] <m0psi> ok, running so far
[00:56] <m0psi> i'll leave it for a bit, see if it falls over
[00:56] <m0psi> standby...
[00:57] <m0psi> time now 00:57
[00:57] <m0psi> we'll see how long it takes to stay alive
[00:58] <m0psi> i've not fiddled with any settings, i just ran it, and now waiting
[01:03] <m0psi> well, so far, it is surviving longer than its predecessor
[01:04] <m0psi> so, something is different
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[01:04] <m0psi> also, my fan is not going crazy
[01:04] <m0psi> saves on electric bill
[01:05] <m0psi> so, a greener application for sure
[01:05] <Randomskk> interesting
[01:06] <m0psi> like i said, all i'm getting it to do right now is the waterfall
[01:06] <m0psi> just ran it out of the box
[01:06] <m0psi> what does "DL" stand for btw?
[01:07] <Randomskk> distributed listener
[01:07] <m0psi> fancy :-)
[01:13] <m0psi> fan going now
[01:14] <m0psi> 27% cpu
[01:14] <m0psi> 20%
[01:14] <Randomskk> going to bed now but sounds promising at least. let me know how it goes.
[01:14] <m0psi> shall i leave it till crash
[01:14] <m0psi> and send logs?
[01:15] <Randomskk> if you like
[01:15] <m0psi> whatever is helpful
[01:15] <m0psi> 20% cpu is not great
[01:15] <m0psi> but happy to leave it for a bit longer
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> you may find turning off waterfall helps a lot
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> and using the other visualisation.
[01:17] <m0psi> can't see how to turn off wf
[01:19] <m0psi> ah, fft/wf
[01:20] <m0psi> still running at 20 ish %
[01:20] <m0psi> i'll watch for a bit
[01:29] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=doN4t5NKW-k
[01:29] <arko> dream job
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[01:36] <m0psi> yeah. i imagine it gets some getting used to
[01:56] <m0psi> so, Randomskk, 1 hour on, new version of DL-fldigi is still running on my mac
[01:56] <m0psi> nice job.
[01:56] <m0psi> i guess will need to learn how to use it with habitat now
[01:57] <m0psi> ttfn
[01:57] <m0psi> oh, cpu stayed at 20 ish % all the time
[02:00] <arko> blah this time machine is driving me crazy
[02:01] <arko> if only it worked so i could jump forward when it's all done
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[03:15] <arko> eroomde: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49920862/ns/technology_and_science-science/
[03:15] <arko> Neato
[03:19] <SpeedEvil> or not.
[03:19] <SpeedEvil> ariane 6 looks quite overpriced suddenly
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[03:36] <arko> "No chance again the falcon 9"
[03:37] <arko> Against*
[03:50] <SpeedEvil> problem is the ariane isn't a program to launch rockets. it's a space program.
[03:51] <SpeedEvil> so it must be done in the space way.
[03:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exploration/Visionary-Launchers-Employees.html?c=y&page=1&device=android
[03:52] <SpeedEvil> is relevant
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[04:15] <dawdw> hey, guys, do u know which website u can go register for the balloon launch?
[04:16] <dawdw> the tracking register
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[05:24] <arko> Upu: DanielRichman: Looks like the predictor program has memory leaks or something, or am I wrong here? It's taking up 15Gb's of ram :P
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[05:31] <mrShrimp> The UKHAS predictor? It worked fine for me recently.
[05:31] <mrShrimp> *CUSF predictor
[05:34] <arko> yeah
[05:34] <arko> its cool, i think it's me stupid sys admin
[05:34] <arko> keeps messing with the network
[05:34] <arko> and the vm's
[05:35] <arko> it's driving me mad
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[06:21] <arko> my stupid*
[06:43] <Upu> morning arko
[06:43] <Upu> no don't get that here
[06:43] <arko> ok
[06:44] <arko> must be something on my end
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[06:55] <mrShrimp> What sort of protocol would I use for transmitting data from the balloon to the ground station? Is it possible for me to create a custom one, or does it need to be preset for the tracker to read it?
[06:55] <Upu> well you can use APRS
[06:55] <Upu> or UKHAS RTTY
[06:56] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[06:56] <mrShrimp> Ok
[06:57] <mrShrimp> That is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
[06:58] <mrShrimp> Just out of curiosity, could custom fields be added onto that if one wanted to see unconventional telemetry in real time?
[06:58] <Upu> yep see that page
[06:58] <Upu> you have have what you want
[07:00] <Upu> put a can in that sentence
[07:00] <Upu> sorry its early
[07:04] <mrShrimp> Wow, you people in the UK make this so much easier for aspiring balloonists!
[07:04] <mrShrimp> Would you recommend CRC16_CCITT over XOR?
[07:06] <mrShrimp> Haha! this is so cool.
[07:11] <Upu> CRC16_CCITT
[07:11] <Upu> ok afk off to work
[07:11] <fsphil> it's a good system
[07:21] <oh7lzb> mrShrimp: In case you're using APRS, you can put telemetry in the comment field with this: http://he.fi/doc/aprs-base91-comment-telemetry.txt
[07:25] <fsphil> I wrote a little function to encode base91: http://pastebin.com/721W3ncY
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[08:34] <danf747> Hey i just generated my payload for launch tomorrow and needed to get it approved. Can anyone please tell me how i am meant to do that?
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[08:40] <Darkside> bug someone in #habhub
[08:41] <Darkside> where are you launching from?
[08:44] <danf747> centre of nsw
[08:44] <danf747> condoblin
[08:44] <Darkside> ahh, USYD group
[08:44] <dawdw> thats us
[08:44] <Darkside> good choice of launch site
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[08:45] <Darkside> but yeah, i can't approve stuff yet
[08:46] <Darkside> any target altitude?
[08:46] <Darkside> if you get >26km or so I should be able to hear you from here
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[08:47] <Darkside> brb
[08:48] <fsphil> hmm.. might hear that here too
[08:48] <fsphil> what time you launching?
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[09:20] <costyn> it'd be nice to have a map on the wiki or linked from the wiki where we can see where ukhas habbers are from
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[09:23] Action: x-f hands the flag to costyn.
[09:23] <costyn> hehe
[09:24] <costyn> yea I'd been looking for an appropriate webapp for it already
[09:24] <costyn> x-f: btw, that pic on engadget with the guy with 15 gopro's on his helmet was a joke that got out of hand
[09:25] <RG_LZ1DEV> there was a 7d in there
[09:25] <x-f> ah, yeah, it looked a bit suspicious :)
[09:25] <costyn> x-f: they had like 2 3D setups on there and 1 or 2 2D ones looking forward/back, but then they started adding more as a joke to see how many they could fit
[09:26] <costyn> and I was correct that it was in Dubai for some XRW flights; the guy wearing the helmet wasn't the owner nor the guy who jumped the eventual setup, he couldn't remember that many details
[09:32] <x-f> costyn, what does XRW mean?
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[09:34] <costyn> x-f: RW = relative work, bog standard skydiving where skydivers lie on their bellies and make boring figures, then there's CRW canopy relative work where you link up to other parachutes (google it), then they coined xrw for parachutes flying relative to freefallers (well, guys & gals in wingsuits)
[09:35] <costyn> oh... it stands for eXtreme Relative Work :)
[09:35] <x-f> sheesh
[09:35] <costyn> cause if it aint' EXTREME you ain't cool
[09:35] <costyn> everthings gotta be extreme these days
[09:36] <fsphil> extremely true
[09:36] <x-f> :)
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[09:38] <daveake> I'm ready for some eXtreme breakfast
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[09:45] <costyn> daveake: that's the spirit!
[09:45] <costyn> XBF
[09:45] <cos-> hello, does anyone know what balloon was used on PIE1?
[09:46] <cos-> i'm also sending a RPi-based balloon during winter and i'm concerned about weight issues
[09:46] <costyn> cos-: daveake launched it ask him :)'
[09:46] <costyn> cos-: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:flight_data <-- also listed here
[09:46] <cos-> btw i'm the author of kittinger, if someone else is planning to do a rpi-based balloon https://github.com/vranki/kittinger
[09:47] <costyn> cos-: but that was a balloon that had several payloads under it, not only the Pi
[09:47] <cos-> yep
[09:47] Action: daveake wakes up
[09:47] <fsphil> indeed. the Pi is not the most reliable of flight computers
[09:48] <costyn> cos-: in any case, it was a Hwoyee 1200
[09:48] <daveake> cos- I wouldn't use a RPi nuless you've got a very good reason. There are other boards MUCH more suitable
[09:49] <daveake> That first one was a 1200 because we had multiple payloads. I've used 800s since
[09:49] <cos-> daveake: the main reason is that i'm more a sw than hw guy and rpi can be used with cots usb components
[09:50] <costyn> cos-: not a really great reason :)
[09:50] <zyp> the main advantage of rpi is that it's cheap enough that you can afford losing it
[09:50] <cos-> daveake: did you measure temperature during flight?
[09:50] <cos-> zyp: that too
[09:50] <costyn> zyp: usually the microcontroller is one of the cheaper electronics (here's looking at you, GPS)
[09:50] <daveake> Doesn't matter. An Arduino or whatever can be used with i2c and spi, and you can use libraries to talk to them. So all you need is some code to call the libraries, and a little bit of soldering
[09:51] <fsphil> hehe, your flight software has a UI
[09:51] <daveake> I used a Pi for 2 reasons. #1 Because it was on my desk waiting to be used for something. #2 Because it's easier to connect a camera to it than to a simpler board
[09:51] <cos-> yep, i agree that a proper microcontroller-based balloon would be better but i want to ping localhost during flight :-)
[09:51] <daveake> No you don't :)
[09:52] <costyn> cos-: what
[09:52] <costyn> cos-: ping localhost? heh
[09:52] <cos-> fsphil: yep, actually it's also a simulator and possibly ground station
[09:52] <cos-> the actual flight logic code is not even implemented yet
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[09:53] <cos-> but it's the easiest part (while(alt < 500m { send_location(); sleep(5min); })
[09:54] <costyn> cos-: so what other parts are you going to be using for radio, gps etc?
[09:55] <cos-> costyn: usb gsm dongle and usb gps dongle, possibly i2c temp sensors and a gopro
[09:55] <cos-> this is my first balloon so i'm keeping it as simple as possible
[09:55] <Darkside> uh
[09:55] <costyn> cos-: GSM only works to a few KM altitude; so it'll be flying blind for a while
[09:55] <Darkside> gsm is not reliable
[09:55] <Darkside> do not use gsm.
[09:55] <cos-> costyn: yep, i know. it's only for retrieval
[09:56] <Darkside> and what if it lands where there is no phonr coverage?
[09:56] <costyn> cos-: are you sure you're going to land in an area which has GSM coverage?
[09:56] <Darkside> or it lands with the antenna facing down
[09:56] <Darkside> or in a weird position
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[09:56] <Darkside> you've now lost your payload
[09:56] <Darkside> use. a. radio.
[09:56] <cos-> costyn: this is finland, ther is GSM coverage practically everywhere
[09:57] <Darkside> cos-: thats not a reliable thing
[09:57] <cos-> Darkside: i plan to send first sms while airborne
[09:57] <Darkside> cos-: use a radio. seriously.
[09:58] <costyn> cos-: we highly recommend against using GSM as a primary communications device; there's a tried & tested method using radio with a network of distributed listeners
[09:58] <cos-> i have been looking for a radio but haven't found anything suitable yet
[09:58] <Darkside> cos-: you haven't been looking hard enough
[09:58] <Darkside> look at the UKHAS wiki
[09:58] <costyn> cos-: have you seen the UKHAS wiki? lots of examples and howtos there
[09:58] <Darkside> theres a few ones that most people here use
[10:00] <costyn> soldering an RFM and ublox gps to an arduino is really very easy. the software is the harder part, but if you're a software guy...
[10:00] <daveake> GSM = Gets Signal Maybe. Please don't rely on it.
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[10:03] <cos-> ok, i'll have to reconsider radio
[10:03] <cos-> i know UKHAS wiki, it's a great resource
[10:04] <cos-> afk lunch ->
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[10:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Drayton "Re: [UKHAS] Hwoyee 1600g early burst."
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[12:04] <cos-> would you recommend a setup like this for a k.i.s.s. radio tracking? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[12:05] <daveake> yes
[12:08] <costyn> cos-: the NTX2 is reliable and dependable
[12:09] <costyn> cos-: and lots of people in western europe who can recieve for you when you are flying your balloon
[12:09] <costyn> although Finland might be a stretch for UK and France
[12:10] <cos-> too bad i don't have anyone more experienced in electronics in the team.
[12:10] <cos-> perhaps i should contact the local radio amateur club and ask if they would be interested in this
[12:10] <costyn> cos-: maybe there's a hackerspace in your neighborhood? http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Finland
[12:10] <cos-> i'm building this in the local hackerspace
[12:10] <costyn> cos-: I'm sure your radio amateurs would be interested. This is their area :)
[12:11] <costyn> cos-: ah... no people experienced with arduino in your hackerspace??
[12:12] <cos-> yes, there are, but no-one seems to be willing to participate in the balloon project
[12:12] <cos-> i could do an arduino based payload myself, but it would exceed the time budget
[12:13] <cos-> perhaps i'll just fly the rpi+gsm version and not worry if it's lost forever
[12:13] <costyn> cos-: you could do that... maybe send a cheap Canon camera with CHDK instead of an expensive GoPro
[12:14] <costyn> cos-: most of us here use the Canon A480's, etc which take automatic pictures ever 10 or 15 seconds
[12:14] <cos-> actually i have a damaged gopro that i could use and not worry if it's lost
[12:15] <cos-> A480 is $200, way too expensive to lose
[12:16] <x-f> get a used one :)
[12:16] <x-f> what hackerspace is that, that has no interest in habbing!
[12:17] <cos-> well, they are building own robots and other stuff
[12:17] <costyn> cos-: and even if they aren't interested in participating, you can at least go to them with arduino questsions
[12:19] <x-f> cos-, to build a payload with NTX2 isn't that hard, there's the wiki and this chatroom to help, just make sure to inform your local radio amateurs prior to launch
[12:20] <cos-> yes, they are needed for ground station. i don't think anyone at the hackerspace has a suitable receiver
[12:21] <cos-> another issue is that should i also add a GPS module to arduino or can i rely on the one on RPI
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[12:22] <costyn> cos-: add a GPS module to the arduino
[12:22] <costyn> cos-: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[12:25] <costyn> cos-: the 3.3v one is cheaper http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 but this one is only suitable for 3.3v arduino's like the pro mini
[12:25] <cos-> that GPS module costs about as much as the whole RPI based payload
[12:26] <costyn> cos-: do you know if your GPS module is suitable above 18KM?
[12:26] <costyn> cos-: many aren't
[12:26] <cos-> nope, it's limited to 18km
[12:26] <costyn> cos-: oh but you only need it for recovery
[12:26] <cos-> yes
[12:26] <cos-> i hope i don't set any records as i won't know :-)
[12:27] <costyn> hmm
[12:27] <costyn> don't you want to know how high your balloon was when taking pictures?
[12:28] <cos-> nope, first time i'd be happy just to fly a balloon and recover it
[12:28] <costyn> if you only want to have a device for recovery, there's standalone gps/gsm units available
[12:28] <x-f> i read the backlog, and it's all clear about Australia, but i'm surprised that UK has such a poor GSM coverage
[12:28] <x-f> we have it, like, 99% of the teritory
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[12:29] <x-f> +r
[12:30] <craag> Bear in mind that you need signal at ~5cm off the ground for your payload once it's landed, that's a bit different to signal at hand/head height for a phone.
[12:30] <cos-> costyn: yep, i've been searching for cheap gps+gsm trackers but either they are heavy and expensive or they don't have real gps and use gsm for localization
[12:31] <New2Balloon> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Real-Time-Portable-Personal-GPS-Tracker-GSM-GPRS-Car-Pet-Tracking-Device-2012-UK-/270993661781?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item3f187b1f55
[12:31] <daveake> You can get GSM/GPS trackers for around €50
[12:31] <cos-> the only places without gsm coverage are some national parks and lapland and i can avoid them by choosing launch location
[12:32] <New2Balloon> See above link... £37 GBP
[12:32] <cos-> ok the prices have come down
[12:32] <daveake> Yes, used them. They're not very sensitive.
[12:32] <cos-> i actually had that unit for testing
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[12:33] <New2Balloon> I have one which wasn't bad at all, put me 8m from the tracker...
[12:36] <cos-> "Only support 2G Sim card Not 3G card " really?
[12:36] <costyn> New2Balloon: I have that one, it's a bit dodgy, I need to test it more to see how it works. I sent it up on our first balloon but after it came down and I called it, got nothing
[12:36] <costyn> cos-: you don't need 3G for SMS
[12:36] <costyn> cos-: you call it, it sends you an sms back with coordinates
[12:37] <New2Balloon> It worked fine with a 3g card, haven't used it in a balloon, so vcan speak for that but in tests I've made here it was good (for the money)
[12:37] <cos-> i don't know what'd the difference between 2G and 3G sim's but if it means the sim card must be 10 years old, it will be difficult to find
[12:37] <daveake> costyn - That's my experience too. Worked on 1 flight didn't work on another
[12:37] <daveake> I owuld not rely on that thing alone
[12:37] <costyn> daveake: nope me either
[12:37] <cos-> the unit i tested had some kind of pin code which the owner didn't know so i could'nt really try it
[12:43] <gonzo___> I've had problems with old SIMs that were 5V rather than 3v3. Also had an old one that I wanted to sue on GPRS (long time ago) that turned out to be too old to support GPRS
[12:45] <gonzo___> I have omne of those trackets as linked above. Certainly work at ground level quite well
[12:45] <gonzo___> have a real GPS module in there
[12:47] <gonzo___> the antenna is crap though. You'd be better just cutting a bit of wire forb the GSM band you are going to use
[12:47] <Laurenceb> the gsm standard supports a raw data mode
[12:47] <Laurenceb> aiui
[12:47] <Laurenceb> but no carrier support it nowadays
[12:47] <Laurenceb> so you get error
[12:47] <gonzo___> gprs is still supported
[12:47] <cos-> also using the gsm+gps unit would remove most of the fun building the payload
[12:47] <nick_> Did anyone find out the details of Ofcom's announcement about the use of the old TV spectrum?
[12:48] <gonzo___> true. I brought my gsm tracker to fit to a car. Not for balloon use
[12:48] <costyn> cos-: indeed
[12:50] <cos-> but summing up my options are: a) rpi+usb devices, cost ~50¬, little effort b) arduino+embedded components, cost ~100¬, a lot of effort
[12:51] <gonzo___> a small and reliable tracker is worth the effort. And used in addition to any other payloads.
[12:52] <gonzo___> so even if the experimental payload goes tits up, you can still track and recover
[12:53] <daveake> cos- Allow me to amend that for you ... a) rpi+usb devices, cost ~50€, little effort, probably won't work b) arduino+embedded components, cost ~100€, a lot of effort, will work
[12:54] <cos-> btw is anyone here in any London hackerspace? i'm coming to London for new year and was planning to visit some hackerspace(s) during the time
[12:54] <daveake> And actually, the price is no different
[12:54] <nick_> cos-: #london-hack-space is their channel, I think
[12:55] <dawdw> 73c542e565814e66cf0f5828ccfa5778
[12:55] <dawdw> hi guys, me and some guys from sydney uni are lluanching tomorrow
[12:55] <dawdw> 73c542e565814e66cf0f5828ccfa5778
[12:55] <nick_> BTW, if you want to get microcontroller + mobile done easily the mbed has a Vodafone dongle library.
[12:56] <dawdw> this is the document number for the habitat genpayload
[12:56] <dawdw> how do we get it aproved?
[12:56] <dawdw> 73c542e565814e66cf0f5828ccfa5778
[12:56] <cos-> daveake: is there actually any reason it 'probably won't work'? i can even do low temperature testing
[12:56] <nick_> That option may be a little more expensive than arduino + GSM board
[12:57] <x-f> dawdw, did you try in #habhub?
[12:57] <nick_> (mbed is £40, vodafone dongle is £25, the few other components you need are <£5)
[12:58] <cos-> daveake: the biggest risks i can think of are thermal issues and software failure
[12:58] <daveake> The GSM is the main problem. Also, the RPi is more fragile - you've got an SD card that may fall out (tape it down) or get bent, breaking the socket. Best not to have any plugs/sockets and of course the RPi has USB and the power socket.
[12:58] <daveake> Descent and landing can be violent
[12:58] <nick_> That said, you could make your own board for ~£10 with the lpc1768...
[12:59] <daveake> Thermally, unless you do something, it will get warm, if not hot
[12:59] <cos-> if all goes well, it has already sent a fix by sms before it hits the ground
[12:59] <costyn> cos-: do you know if the GPS unit will regain a fix automatically after it has passed 18KM? it might need to be powercycled?
[12:59] <daveake> Yeah, but you need to think "If all goes wrong"
[12:59] <cos-> one hackerspace member has a thermal testing cabinet at work and has offered it to use
[13:00] <daveake> I wouldn't bother - it won't get cold.
[13:00] <daveake> You've got 2.5W emitted by the RPi, plus whatever your regulator and batteries throw out
[13:00] <costyn> cos-: like daveake said, at altitude the lack of air will make cooling difficult (no convection currents)
[13:01] <daveake> I now use switching regulators. With a linear it got hot. and I mean hot.
[13:01] <costyn> daveake: did you have a temp probe attached to your reg?
[13:01] <daveake> No, but it melted the plastic foam
[13:01] <daveake> Well nearly
[13:01] <costyn> hehe ok
[13:02] <daveake> I opened the lid and I could feel the heat coming out
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[13:02] <daveake> That was after it spent an hour on the ground, in the sun.
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[13:02] <costyn> nick_: that lpc1768 looks nice
[13:02] <daveake> The payloads with switching regs have been fine
[13:02] <nick_> I've liked using it in an mbed
[13:03] <nick_> Not really looking forward to soldering it
[13:03] <cos-> ok, i have a lot to think about. now afk company christmas party ->
[13:03] <costyn> heh
[13:03] <x-f> it's november!
[13:03] <costyn> pretty early for xmas
[13:03] <costyn> nick_: they've done the soldering for you already: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9564
[13:03] <nick_> But a lot of really useful things have been pretty much plug and play.
[13:03] <nick_> Like ethernet, 4G, etc
[13:04] <nick_> 3G sorry
[13:04] <costyn> nick_: Web-based C/C++ programming environment ?
[13:04] <nick_> costyn: yeah, I've got 7 of those boards
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[13:05] <nick_> The web IDE has some really cool features, although a few little things annoy me about it.
[13:05] <nick_> Mostly that I don't like typing in a web browser.
[13:05] <costyn> no, I can imagine
[13:05] <Randomskk> dawdw: you wanted 73c542e565814e66cf0f5828ccfa5778 approved?
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[13:06] <nick_> But you can go on their site and find the page or a some code you want to use, and just click on the "import" button and it'll pull their library or whatever into your work area or project.
[13:06] <nick_> So code sharing is really easy.
[13:07] <costyn> nick_: one of my friends from uni works at NXP, doing wildly complicated mathematical stuff for chip and pcb design
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[13:07] <nick_> Cool
[13:07] <nick_> I looked at applying for some of those kinds of jobs, but I don't think I really have the skills for working on chips.
[13:08] <costyn> heh.. his official title is "Industrial Mathematician"
[13:09] <costyn> nick_: http://www.linkedin.com/in/joostrommes have no idea what half this stuff even means
[13:09] <costyn> hehe
[13:13] <costyn> anyways, it all looks pretty cool and I wished I was smart enough to do this kind of stuff
[13:14] <nick_> Someone pointed me toward technical consultancy jobs yesterday, they look like they could be fun.
[13:14] <costyn> nick_: what is it?
[13:15] <nick_> Big companies outsourcing technology projects to the consultancy.
[13:17] <jdtanner> Morning chaps. I've noticed that the guide on linking the arduino to the NTX2 has been updated. I'm having a bit of a struggle getting my head around the voltage divider shown on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 &anyone got 5 mins to try and help with the maths?
[13:17] <jdtanner> (afternoon rather)
[13:17] <costyn> jdtanner: just did that too few days ago. maybe I can help
[13:18] <jdtanner> Cool, I have got my tracker up and running with two pins from the arduino, but I'm keen to follow any advances in designs. The main problem I have is figuring out the maths behind the voltage divider shown in the circuit diagram&I'm not happy just building it and not understanding how it works :)
[13:19] <costyn> maths or electrons ?
[13:19] <costyn> :)
[13:19] <costyn> jdtanner: you've read the wikipedia page on voltage dividers?
[13:20] <jdtanner> Both probably; the fact that VCC is always at +3.3V and RXD1 can fluctuate between 0 and +3.3V confuses me&I've never seen a voltage divider with multiple input voltages before.
[13:21] <jdtanner> I got my head around the previous voltage divider&and was happy with that :)
[13:21] <costyn> jdtanner: hmm I don't think I know the answer. :)
[13:22] <mattbrejza> hurrah finally someone updated that page
[13:22] <jdtanner> Y
[13:23] <jdtanner> Yep&and added confusion to me in the process :)
[13:23] <mattbrejza> it was just uncessary to use two pins for two different voltage levels
[13:24] <nick_> VCC is 5V, no?
[13:24] <mattbrejza> just consider the two cases, firs when the pin is high then you have a potential divider of R1=4.7+20 & R2=4.7
[13:24] <RG_LZ1DEV> probably
[13:24] <mattbrejza> and when the pin is low R1=4.7 and R2=4.7+20
[13:24] <mattbrejza> then work out the o/p voltage in each case
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[13:25] <jdtanner> Right, gotcha&I can see the fact that two pins gives an unnecessary failure point
[13:25] <jdtanner> :)
[13:25] <costyn> mattbrejza: that makes sense
[13:25] <costyn> jdtanner: and makes the code cleaner
[13:25] <mattbrejza> its more that processors have limited pins
[13:25] <mattbrejza> they dont tend to fail
[13:26] <jdtanner> They do with my soldering ;)
[13:26] <costyn> jdtanner: haha
[13:27] <mattbrejza> also with that layout if you change the 20K for a variable you can chnage the shift with one varaible
[13:27] <mattbrejza> the shift is dependant only on the 20k and the centre only on the 4.7:4.7 ratio
[13:27] <mattbrejza> (almost)
[13:28] <costyn> my R3 on a 5v arduino needed a 25K resistor. The indicated 47K (on the wiki) gave me a shift of 250
[13:28] <costyn> mattbrejza: I quite like that circuit, it's so elegant
[13:28] <mattbrejza> its also the most obvious one
[13:29] <mattbrejza> anything is more elegant than a horrible mess of pins and resistors
[13:29] <costyn> it's what I like about electronics and programming. it's engineering but also art
[13:29] <mattbrejza> i tend to pwm it these days anyway
[13:30] <costyn> mattbrejza: I'm going to add your explanation to the wiki ok?
[13:30] <mattbrejza> sure
[13:30] <jdtanner> nice, thanks chaps :)
[13:36] <costyn> mattbrejza: this is ok right? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?&#circuit_diagram not sure if the first paragraph should be left in, it's a confusing (imho) explanation of how voltage dividers work in general
[13:39] <daveake> The 2-pin thing I always thought strange. I believe it just stemmed from the Icarus computer, and when I asked Rob he said he just did it that way because it seemed more obvious to him.
[13:39] <UpuWork> haha just been talking to him about that
[13:39] <daveake> I thought the 1-pin was more obvious :)
[13:39] <daveake> oh, and?
[13:39] <UpuWork> he can't explain it either
[13:39] <daveake> haha lol
[13:40] <UpuWork> it just worked
[13:40] <daveake> Just a piece of HAB history then :)
[13:40] <UpuWork> I was saying I tend to do PWM now
[13:40] <UpuWork> however we were talking about his code and how its still used everywhere
[13:40] <daveake> You need single-pin for that, or for direct drive from a UART
[13:40] <UpuWork> even the entirely unused void callback() which does nothing
[13:40] <daveake> :)
[13:40] <costyn> UpuWork: pwm directly on the transmit pin of the ntx?
[13:41] <mattbrejza> costyn: "the two 4k7 resistors, R4 and R5, sets the bias (centre) point of the two levels to be half the supply voltage. The RXD pin then diviates the voltage from the centre point by an amount controlled by R3"
[13:41] <UpuWork> yeah via a resistor
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[13:41] <UpuWork> and you effectively get software controlled shift
[13:41] <mattbrejza> probably a bit better ^ ?
[13:41] <UpuWork> and more accuracy
[13:41] <daveake> mattbrejza - exactly
[13:41] <UpuWork> please amend it
[13:41] <costyn> mattbrejza: for the first paragraph?
[13:41] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:41] <costyn> i'll chagne it
[13:41] <UpuWork> this is what happens when you let idiots write tutorials
[13:42] <mattbrejza> i would but i dont have an account on the wiki
[13:42] <UpuWork> make one :)
[13:42] <costyn> updated
[13:42] <mattbrejza> oh apparently i do
[13:44] <costyn> UpuWork: why do you still need a resistor when using PWM? is the PWM not granular enough?
[13:44] <costyn> hehe.. in the first paragraph: Pretty please take the time to work out what the code below is doing, redo it yourself, break it, fix it most importantly understand it.
[13:45] <costyn> and then the code itself is the arduino blink tutorial heheh
[13:45] <costyn> although the actual rtty_txbit etc does get more complicated
[13:46] <costyn> UpuWork: did you test those resistor values for 3.3v and 5v?
[13:46] <mattbrejza> does the wiki take equations in the latex format?
[13:47] <UpuWork> just 5V
[13:47] <gonzo___> would PWM risk injecting noise on the keying waveform?
[13:47] <costyn> UpuWork: hmm and 47K gave you 425 shift?
[13:48] <UpuWork> something liket hat
[13:48] <daveake> The NTX2 has a low-pass filter
[13:48] <RG_LZ1DEV> isnt vcc 5v ?
[13:48] <UpuWork> daveake - our reg is ok
[13:48] <daveake> ok
[13:48] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: latex style maths installed on the wiki?
[13:48] <gonzo___> ok
[13:48] <costyn> UpuWork: I don't get why I needed 25K on to get 425 shift, while I was also using 4.7k's for the center point
[13:49] <UpuWork> I have no idea mattbrejza, try it if not tell us what module we need to install
[13:49] <mattbrejza> nope
[13:49] <mattbrejza> https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:latex?s[]=equations
[13:49] <UpuWork> costyn I checked that circuit using 20k as it was all I had about
[13:49] <UpuWork> and it worked
[13:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> with 20k when the pin is high
[13:50] <UpuWork> shift was about 450 it seems
[13:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> gives 2.76
[13:50] <UpuWork> mattbrejza I'll see if I can get that installed for you
[13:50] <mattbrejza> k thanks
[13:50] <mattbrejza> i suprised noone else has tried to use it
[13:51] <mattbrejza> or at least they have but probably not bothered complaining
[13:51] <costyn> UpuWork: is 47K a typo then in the wiki for 5V?
[13:51] <UpuWork> very likely yes
[13:51] <costyn> ok :)
[13:51] <UpuWork> as it was the value from the previous circuit
[13:51] <UpuWork> sorry
[13:51] <costyn> phew
[13:51] <mattbrejza> why are arduinos still 5V anyway :/
[13:52] <costyn> I'll edit it as soon as Matt is done
[13:52] <Laurenceb> cuz they fail
[13:52] <Laurenceb> tarduino
[13:52] <mattbrejza> oh im locking it
[13:52] <mattbrejza> ok off now, waiting for instal
[13:53] <UpuWork> this is how it works
[13:53] <UpuWork> improve away :)
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[13:53] <mattbrejza> the only things still 5V these days is analogue
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[13:53] <RG_LZ1DEV> Second case when the RXD1 pin is low R1=4.7 and R2=4.7+20, gives 0.53v.
[13:53] <RG_LZ1DEV> thats incorrect
[13:53] <UpuWork> its meant to be 0.21 something
[13:53] <costyn> RG_LZ1DEV: I calculated it, but I probably messed up
[13:54] <RG_LZ1DEV> costyn: are you looking from http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:ntx2.png?cache=&w=900&h=633
[13:54] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
[13:55] <mattbrejza> 4.7/(4.7+4.7+20) * 3.3 = 0.53 (ie correct)
[13:55] <costyn> RG_LZ1DEV: yes
[13:56] <RG_LZ1DEV> resistors are in parallel ?
[13:56] <mattbrejza> lol oops
[13:56] <mattbrejza> i thought those numbers looked too big/small
[13:57] Action: costyn just sits here and looks clueless
[13:57] <RG_LZ1DEV> it should be 4.7/(4.7+(4.7||20))
[13:57] <costyn> what is the || operator?
[13:57] <RG_LZ1DEV> parallel
[13:58] <mattbrejza> (4.7)/(4.7+(4.7^-1+20^-1)^-1) * 3.3 = 1.82
[13:58] <costyn> aaah ok... I see it now
[13:58] <RG_LZ1DEV> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor#Series_and_parallel_resistors
[13:59] <costyn> RG_LZ1DEV: thanks :)
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[14:02] <RG_LZ1DEV> mattbrejza: is the output pin
[14:03] <RG_LZ1DEV> also 3.3 or 5v ?
[14:03] <jdtanner> I guess it depends on your arduino?
[14:03] <mattbrejza> 3.3 for those using a sensible processor solution
[14:03] <costyn> heeh
[14:04] <RG_LZ1DEV> arduinos have both a 5v and 3.3v pin
[14:04] <RG_LZ1DEV> so you can do VCC, but the output will be 5v
[14:04] <jdtanner> (mine only has 3.3 :) )
[14:04] <costyn> RG_LZ1DEV: digital pins are 5v afaik
[14:04] <mattbrejza> so why do people use them with a 5V Vcc :/
[14:05] <costyn> mattbrejza: that's the same as asking why so many people still use internet explorer
[14:05] <daveake> There are some Arduinos that use 3.3V logic
[14:05] <mattbrejza> and two pins for their rtty
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[14:05] <daveake> Like the one I use
[14:05] <costyn> mattbrejza: o you mean hook up NTX to 5v vcc instead of 3.3v?
[14:06] <daveake> That's OK it has its own reg
[14:06] <mattbrejza> nope use 3.3V
[14:06] <RG_LZ1DEV> this tutorial just got serious
[14:06] <RG_LZ1DEV> :D
[14:06] <mattbrejza> but yea it doesnt care
[14:06] <costyn> hehe
[14:06] <UpuWork> NTX2 has its own 2.7V internal reg
[14:07] <RG_LZ1DEV> with Vcc at 3.3v
[14:07] <RG_LZ1DEV> and output pin at 5v
[14:07] <UpuWork> there are many ways to skin a cat
[14:07] <jdtanner> I'm quite happy that it has stimulated this discussion :)
[14:07] <RG_LZ1DEV> vout is 2v
[14:07] <UpuWork> most of which will land you in trouble with the RSPCA
[14:07] <UpuWork> hi jdtanner
[14:07] <jdtanner> Hey UpuWork thanks for the torch email :)
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[14:07] <UpuWork> welcome
[14:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[14:07] <daveake> is it me you're looking for?
[14:07] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[14:07] <UpuWork> daveake is getting one for XMAS after I make a portal in his kitchen with it
[14:08] <UpuWork> made
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork, daveake today I passed Theoretical Physics 3, which means that research can continue!
[14:08] <jdtanner> nice&I'm off work with a bad back at the moment, so I'm busy buying stuff that I din't really need to cheer me up :)
[14:08] <costyn> jdtanner: that always helps :)
[14:08] <UpuWork> congrats Lunar
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> I am so happy right now!
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks UpuWork
[14:08] <costyn> Lunar_LanderU: nice work! :)
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> and hi jdtanner costyn
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
[14:08] <jdtanner> Congratulations :)
[14:08] <UpuWork> right much as I enjoy this discussion ont he right number of pins I must go do some real work
[14:09] <UpuWork> bbl
[14:09] <daveake> Lunar_LanderU - I found someone else using "XD" on the internet, and funnily enough it was in reply to this video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5P7RsC9TI
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> thank you all
[14:09] <daveake> and well done :D
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :D
[14:09] <costyn> mattbrejza / RG_LZ1DEV : anyways, I'll update the values with the correct ones later in the wiki. it'll be a nice exercise for me
[14:09] <mattbrejza> ive done half the work
[14:11] <jdtanner> Nice one :) I'm actually quite happy with the way my circuit is working now, but I'm always on the look out for improvements. PWM sounds like a great idea actually :)
[14:11] <costyn> jdtanner: yea I'd like to play with pwm too
[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> actually I am listening to "We are the Champions" xD
[14:11] <eroomde> interfacing a thermocouple to an avr is actually quite a bit of work, components-wise
[14:11] <eroomde> it's annoying
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[14:12] <eroomde> not very friendly to low board space
[14:12] <mattbrejza> just use a ds18b20, im sure itll work just as well :)
[14:12] <eroomde> yeah
[14:12] <eroomde> i heard they perform just great at 600C
[14:12] <eroomde> thanks
[14:12] <costyn> haha
[14:13] <mattbrejza> i thought that mught be the case
[14:13] <costyn> and -55
[14:13] <costyn> (not)
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[14:13] <mattbrejza> well if you get a reply from it the rocket isnt on
[14:13] <mattbrejza> if it fails to reply your rocket is working.....
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> the Ph.D. students and I will have some cake now
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> so talk to you later!
[14:13] <New2Balloon> Any ublox experts?
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[14:14] <New2Balloon> error whilst reading GPS.. Code from the ukhas site too?
[14:14] <New2Balloon> error: B562624240FFFF63000010270050FA0FA06402C10000000000000016DC * Reading ACK response: (FAILED!)
[14:19] <New2Balloon> holding reset on the arduino and the NMEA data flows to terminal
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[14:30] <costyn> New2Balloon: what's your code look like that you're using now?
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[14:31] <New2Balloon> Straight off the wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[14:31] <costyn> ah softserial
[14:31] <New2Balloon> btw got it reading to the terminal window after your advice teh other day
[14:31] <New2Balloon> yes soft
[14:32] <costyn> New2Balloon: so you using the softserial one or hardware serial?
[14:32] <New2Balloon> softserial
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[14:35] <RG_LZ1DEV> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2#circuit_diagram
[14:35] <costyn> New2Balloon: did you try uncommenting the pubx configuration commands?
[14:35] <RG_LZ1DEV> that should be more clear now
[14:35] <costyn> RG_LZ1DEV: nice
[14:36] <costyn> is the shift the NTX produces relative to it's VCC or absolute? (I guess vcc?)
[14:37] <mattbrejza> its absolute
[14:37] <gonzo___> going to be relative to the keying V from the processor. If that cahnges, the shioft will chaneg
[14:37] <gonzo___> change
[14:37] <costyn> well well... which is it? :)
[14:37] <gonzo___> the Vcc power to the MTX is regulated
[14:38] <gonzo___> NTX
[14:38] <mattbrejza> also the input voltage just gets put across a varicap, doesnt matter on supply
[14:38] <New2Balloon> costyn, yep does the same thing except highlighting the FFFF in the error line
[14:38] <mattbrejza> the varicap has a C(Vin) relationship
[14:39] <costyn> ermm... thats still beyond my knowledge level unfortunately
[14:39] <costyn> New2Balloon: so it seems the GPS is not responding at all to any commands
[14:39] <gonzo___> but if that same Vcc powers the processor, and the output of the I/O lines of the priocessor are dependent on Vcc, then the varicap V will change
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[14:39] <mattbrejza> even if it was relative to the internal supply of the ntx2, that doesnt change
[14:40] <New2Balloon> costyn, yep.. Correct. hit the rest it obviously bypasses the Arduino and away it runs setting out the NMEA data to the terminal?
[14:41] <mattbrejza> a 1V input to the ntx2 will give the same deviation whatever its supply is
[14:41] <costyn> mattbrejza: 1v input on the txd pin right?
[14:41] <mattbrejza> yea
[14:42] <costyn> thx
[14:42] <gonzo___> If the Vcc is common to NTX and processor, then it affectes the I/O pin that generates the varicap V, then it will have an effect
[14:42] <mattbrejza> also why is the label on the circuit diagram of the pin from the avr 'rxd1' :/
[14:43] <costyn> New2Balloon: hmm not sure whats going on, sorry :(
[14:43] <costyn> New2Balloon: I had something similar but my memory is really bad
[14:44] <mattbrejza> yea the processor o/p via the resistor network is relative to supply, but the ntx2 by itself is absolute
[14:44] <costyn> mattbrejza: yea noticed that too
[14:44] <New2Balloon> Ok, no problem... know what it feels like :)
[14:44] <New2Balloon> I'll try it again tomorrow
[14:45] <costyn> New2Balloon: if you can, try to listen in on the serial data between the arduino and the gps. connect the rx of an ftdi to the tx pin of the gps and see what, if anything it says back
[14:45] <costyn> New2Balloon: also connect ftdi to tx pin on arduino and see what its saying
[14:46] <gonzo___> think the confision is that costyn didn't specify which VCC he was talking about. I assumed it would be a common rail for NTX and proc
[14:46] <costyn> proc = microcontroller proc ?
[14:46] <gonzo___> rr
[14:47] <costyn> New2Balloon: I remember my problem was that my Chinese arduino had a pin labelled GND which wasn't actually GND, so the gps wasn't getting any power
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[14:50] <daveake> :)
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[14:52] <eroomde> there's an awesome electronics tool i recommend for people
[14:52] <eroomde> FilterLab
[14:53] <eroomde> from microchip
[14:53] <eroomde> runs in wine
[14:53] <eroomde> you can design filters with it
[14:53] <eroomde> specifiy lp/hp/bp, butterworth/bessel/chebychebyhubbahubba/, cutoff frequencies, number of poles
[14:53] <eroomde> and it gives you a schematic of how to make it with opamps
[14:53] <eroomde> aswell as a bode plot with the performance
[14:54] <costyn> eroomde: i've never needed this but I take your word that it is awesome
[14:54] <mattbrejza> looks good
[14:54] <mattbrejza> although why its windows only who knows
[14:55] <eroomde> works fine in wine
[14:55] <eroomde> how i am using it now
[14:55] <costyn> and what, pray tell, is chebychebyhubbahubba
[14:55] <mattbrejza> use windows anyway :P
[14:55] <eroomde> chebychev
[14:55] <eroomde> + enthusiasm
[14:55] <costyn> hehe
[14:56] <mattbrejza> i generally google '<filter name> online calculator'
[14:56] <jonsowman> lazy sod
[14:56] <jonsowman> ;)
[14:56] <eroomde> sadly i want to antialias something down to about 10hz
[14:56] <mattbrejza> so do you get your lecture notes out, a caluclator and spend some time getting some decent values for a opamp filter?
[14:56] <eroomde> i.e. don't want the thermocouple to pick up mains
[14:56] <mattbrejza> jonsowman: ?
[14:56] <eroomde> and that means massive caps
[14:57] <mattbrejza> does it pick mains up from its long wires?
[14:57] <mattbrejza> also that program actually needs to be installed :/
[14:59] <eroomde> exactly
[14:59] <eroomde> so there's rf filtering on the input of the instrumentation amp
[14:59] <jdtanner> Ok, so I've been inspired to look at alternative approaches to driving the NTX2&PWM seems to be the way forward.
[15:00] <eroomde> as no int amp's cmrr will save you from rf freqs
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[15:00] <cloix> hi there...
[15:00] <costyn> jdtanner: how do you hook up the ntx to your microcontroller?
[15:00] <eroomde> and then a unity gain anti-alias filter from between the int amp output and the adc
[15:00] <costyn> cloix: howdy
[15:00] <eroomde> to get rid of the rest
[15:00] <eroomde> jdtanner: excellent!
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[15:00] <mattbrejza> well you could use large R, but noise is R dependant?
[15:00] <eroomde> you'll be wanting this program i just plugged
[15:01] <jdtanner> costyn: that is what I'm going to try and figure out this afternoon ;)
[15:01] <costyn> ok :)
[15:01] <mattbrejza> as in proportinal rather then 1/R
[15:01] <eroomde> mattbrejza: not following sorry
[15:01] <eroomde> large R for what?
[15:01] <mattbrejza> your AA filter
[15:01] <mattbrejza> large C or large R?
[15:02] <eroomde> prefer active
[15:02] <eroomde> more accurate
[15:02] <eroomde> have taken the trouble of using an instrumentation amp afterall
[15:03] <mattbrejza> i might be trying to solve a problem you dont have...
[15:04] <eroomde> poss :)
[15:04] <eroomde> it's the way when trying to communicate technical concepts with ascii
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[15:04] <jdtanner> Re: PWM, this is where I'm going to start I think ;)
[15:04] <eroomde> rc is ok for single pole
[15:04] <mattbrejza> we need a new text based way to communicate...
[15:05] <eroomde> but you get probalems cascading loads together when trying to make a better filter
[15:05] <eroomde> you get 2 poles per op-amp for a start
[15:05] <mattbrejza> a single RC is fine for driving a NTX2 PWM style
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[15:05] <eroomde> depends on how fast you want to drive it vs the pwm freq :)
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[15:06] <costyn> RC?
[15:06] <eroomde> the simplest kind of low pass filter
[15:06] <eroomde> a resistor and a capacitor
[15:06] <eroomde> R and C
[15:06] <costyn> ah
[15:06] <mattbrejza> yea im assuming pwm freq of clock/256 and nothing more than 300 baud
[15:06] <eroomde> you make a potential divider with the resistor on the top and the capacitor on the bottom
[15:06] <costyn> (sorry for the n00b questions), this is my first year ever dabbling in electronics
[15:07] <eroomde> no it's good - this is how you learn
[15:07] <costyn> eroomde: indeed
[15:07] <costyn> eroomde: this channel is gold in that regard
[15:07] <eroomde> so the thing i've been doing is making active filters with operational amplifiers - these have a lot more going for them in almost all metrics except for simplicity
[15:08] <mattbrejza> after 2nd order you have to be careful when it comes to things like Q factor, which is a right pain
[15:09] <costyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider#Low-pass_RC_filter <-- this?
[15:09] <mattbrejza> yea
[15:09] <eroomde> well, when you want more than 2nd order you are usually thinking about exactly what kind of filter you want anyway
[15:09] <eroomde> quite hard
[15:09] <mattbrejza> with opmaps and R/C components is then much easier than a RF filter with RL/C
[15:09] <mattbrejza> -R
[15:10] <eroomde> eg for all our dataloggers we have 6th order aa bessel filters, deliberately bessel for the uniform phase response
[15:10] <mattbrejza> that never works well first time
[15:10] <eroomde> yeah, rf filters are a whole nuther ballgame
[15:10] <mattbrejza> cant say ive had to use analogue filters in an applicatoin which cares about phase
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[15:15] <eroomde> you probably have if you've ever done any data logging of anything dynamic
[15:16] <mattbrejza> cant say i have
[15:17] <eroomde> well, if you do, remember group delay
[15:18] <mattbrejza> i shall :)
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[15:22] <costyn> speaking of measuring temperature, some switches we manage are having issues: Temperature low alarm; Operating value: -126.2 C
[15:22] <costyn> and Temperature high alarm; Operating value: 122.3
[15:22] <costyn> not values one usually sees in a datacenter
[15:23] <eroomde> hmm
[15:24] <eroomde> it looks kinda like a signed int
[15:24] <eroomde> that has gone through some kind of calibration curve and become a float in the process
[15:24] <eroomde> but you're either getting stuck on (11111111) or stuck off (00000000) when you poll the temp sensor over i2c
[15:24] <eroomde> perhaps
[15:24] <costyn> those are values from 2 different switches funny enough
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[15:52] <jdtanner> Quick question (probably a stupid one): do I need to bother implementing a low-pass filter if I'm going to drive the NTX2 via PWM?
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[15:52] <navracwork> no theres plenty of filtering in the ntx
[15:52] <jonsowman> I found it cleaned the spectrum up a bit
[15:52] <jdtanner> So, that makes the driving of the NTX very simple via PWM :)
[15:52] <jonsowman> 1kHz lpf or something
[15:53] <jonsowman> but no it's not absolutely necessary
[15:53] <jdtanner> Cool, thanks chaps.
[15:53] <jdtanner> (really wish I had access to an oscilloscope)
[15:53] <jonsowman> get one :)
[15:53] <daveake> Yep :)
[15:54] <jonsowman> old and perfectly good CROs can be had off ebay for not much
[15:54] <jdtanner> Unless Black Friday sales reduce the prices to £0 I'm afraid they are a bit out of my price range atm ;
[15:54] <jdtanner> ;)
[15:54] <jonsowman> I managed to get a 30MHz Hameg from the engineering dept here for free
[15:54] <jdtanner> It is on the shoppig list
[15:54] <jonsowman> heheh
[15:54] <daveake> The really old ones keep you warm in the winter
[15:54] <RG_LZ1DEV> haha
[15:55] <jdtanner> I'm just going to have to rely on the hive mind to tell me what I need to know? I used to have a crazy old Russian one that I borrowed from a skip outside a Physics dept
[15:55] <jdtanner> along with a monster PSU
[15:55] <jdtanner> They were retired not long after
[15:55] <number10> I have one from 1970s in the attic somewhere - I wonder if it still works
[15:55] <jdtanner> Rather dangerous ;)
[15:55] <daveake> I had a Telequipment dual-beam scope for years
[15:55] <jonsowman> just adds to the excitement
[15:55] <jdtanner> In a skip for a reason :D
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[15:56] <jonsowman> what do you mean, PAT test failed?
[15:56] <jdtanner> Yeah, I'm happy not being excited by being able to look through a smoking hole in my hand
[15:56] <daveake> Valves + transistors .... the valves warmed up the transistors so at startup the trick was to spot the trace as it flew from bottom to top of the screen
[15:56] <jdtanner> Well, they failed the "why the hell is that fizzing and popping" test ;)
[15:57] <jonsowman> ah
[15:57] <number10> did you ever have one daveake where you had to adjust the stability - and back of some other ajustment - cant remember now what it was
[15:57] <jdtanner> I'm quite attached to my eyebrows ;)
[15:58] <daveake> number10 You may mean the beam splitter
[15:58] <daveake> It had 2 real beams, created from one by a thin blade inside the CRT, and a magnet on the back to align the beam with the blade so it evenly split into two
[15:59] <number10> I cant remeber now - I should get it out of the attic an see
[15:59] <daveake> I got it cheap because one trace was barely visible .. the seller (akak bloke who happened to be near the back of a lorry at some point) didn't know
[15:59] <daveake> aka*
[15:59] <eroomde> was wonder what an akak bloke was
[15:59] <eroomde> wondering*
[16:00] <daveake> So half price and fixed with a BIC pen top
[16:01] <daveake> Lasted for many years
[16:01] <eroomde> there's a guy at esa who insists that relays are the only valid form of signal isolation
[16:01] <daveake> Like 20. Now I'm on an Owon
[16:01] <eroomde> for like 24V control signals in industrial situations
[16:01] <eroomde> he seems to not have heard of opto-isolators
[16:01] <daveake> Yeah, 24V people do like relays
[16:01] <jdtanner> Out of interest, why isn't everyone using PWM?
[16:02] <eroomde> for rtty, no need
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[16:02] <number10> possible as it takes a little more effort on programming
[16:02] <eroomde> it's a good idea though
[16:02] <eroomde> people have used DACs before
[16:02] <eroomde> be they pwn or otherwise
[16:02] <daveake> nodulation?
[16:03] <jdtanner> Hmm, interesting& ;)
[16:05] <costyn> jdtanner: so you're just connecting your arduino pin to the txd pin of the ntx?
[16:08] <number10> did you get the owon SDS7102 daveake ?
[16:08] <daveake> yup
[16:08] <number10> no problems with it - I remember it looked good some of the fft screen shots
[16:09] <daveake> Very good value. UI could do with an overhaul, but the hardware is good. Links to PC via USB or LAN and there's a reasonable PC program to record etc
[16:09] <jdtanner> To answer the above&yes&unless somebody has a sound reason for me not to ;)
[16:10] <daveake> Diunno if anyone wants a Kindle Fire but they're down to £99 till Monday.
[16:11] <daveake> I don't btw :-). Too much Amazon not enough Android
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[17:12] <mattbrejza> what a nice archway: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64331000/jpg/_64331834_sconepalacearchpaulfarmer.jpg
[17:12] <m0psi> hi all. got a teaser (in my book), but I"m hoping you're all going to shout, in unison, why what I am doing is wrong in the first place. Here are the three lines of code that produce a nonsensical output:
[17:12] <mattbrejza> but: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64331000/jpg/_64331831_archway.jpg
[17:12] <m0psi> float f_test;
[17:12] <m0psi> f_test = 112233.44;
[17:12] <m0psi> debugSerial.print("1- f_test = "); printFloat(f_test);debugSerial.println();
[17:12] <mattbrejza> lol whoops
[17:12] <m0psi> float f_test;
[17:12] <m0psi> f_test = 112233.44;
[17:12] <m0psi> 1- f_test = 112233.45750
[17:13] <m0psi> sorry, the output is this only :
[17:13] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: D:
[17:13] <mattbrejza> moar info http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-20462667
[17:13] <m0psi> 1- f_test = 112233.43750
[17:13] <RG_LZ1DEV> mattbrejza:  _ 
[17:14] <mattbrejza> unfortinate clash in convostation
[17:14] <bertrik> m0psi: so what's the problem?
[17:14] <m0psi> i am hoping to see the decimal show 44
[17:14] <m0psi> not some random number :-(
[17:14] <bertrik> float probably has limited precision
[17:14] <daveake> floats are shorter than you think
[17:15] <m0psi> but it works for another variable
[17:15] <m0psi> ok, regardless, how do i extend the float
[17:15] <m0psi> all i want is 2 decimal points
[17:15] <craag> You are limited by significant figures, rather than decimal points.
[17:16] <daveake> It's not the decimal points as such - it's the sig fiigutes
[17:16] <daveake> and my tipping
[17:16] <mfa298> from what I remember of old programming its related to how floats are stored (they have to be stored as a x bit value)
[17:16] <m0psi> ah, that could figure
[17:16] <m0psi> so, i should multiply the large float by 100
[17:16] <m0psi> then tx it
[17:16] <daveake> Try double, but if it's Arduino I think double=float anyway
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[17:16] <m0psi> and then divide again
[17:16] <daveake> no
[17:17] <daveake> That'll just change the exponent
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[17:17] <daveake> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-precision_floating-point_format
[17:17] <mfa298> you'll probably have the same issue when you change back to a float
[17:18] <m0psi> hmm
[17:18] <m0psi> so, tried using double, that did not fix it
[17:19] <zyp> floats are just double with more precision
[17:19] <craag> Yeah, double == float on AVRs.
[17:19] <zyp> sorry, opposite
[17:19] <zyp> :p
[17:19] <daveake> :)
[17:19] <bertrik> can you do printf-style formatting on the arduino?
[17:19] <daveake> double = float on Arduino - http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/Double
[17:20] <bertrik> I think printf allows you to specify the number of decimals
[17:20] <m0psi> what i'm actually trying to do is to construct the sentence to be tx'ed
[17:20] <m0psi> and i'm using the time variable which is like 112233.44
[17:20] <m0psi> so, i want to make it into a string
[17:20] <daveake> Oh, for that, use an int
[17:20] <jonsowman> sprintf
[17:21] <zyp> the thing is that the values below the decimal point is binary and not decimal
[17:21] <m0psi> using dtostrf(f_test, 4, 2, s_gps_time);
[17:21] <daveake> You don't need the sub-second part
[17:21] <zyp> .1 binary is .5 decimal, .01 is .25, .11 is .75, and so on
[17:21] <daveake> cd /
[17:21] <zyp> so there is no precise way to represent, say, .3
[17:21] <m0psi> sure daveake, but frustrating that i can't print a float, which is what my problem bolis down, right now
[17:21] <daveake> bollox
[17:21] <jonsowman> lol daveake
[17:22] <zyp> m0psi, take the float, multiply by 100, cast to int, print
[17:22] <m0psi> right zyp, i think i will do that
[17:23] <m0psi> it is not that long an int
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[17:24] <bertrik> do you need to use a float anyway?
[17:24] <m0psi> not really
[17:24] <m0psi> but i could not see the mistake
[17:25] <m0psi> 'mistake' cos i expect it to work
[17:25] <m0psi> evidently not
[17:27] <daveake> Like zyp said, the limited resolution means that the value you get will be the closest binary representation of your decimal number
[17:27] <daveake> It's a bit surprising at first but it does make sense
[17:31] <zyp> it's a common problem, and floating point is discouraged for many application because of that
[17:32] <zyp> http://docs.python.org/2/library/decimal.html <- python for instance have a distinct decimal type that allows floating point numbers with decimal instead of binary representation
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[17:32] <kokey> my screen resolution is a float
[17:32] <kokey> because of the half dead rgb pixels
[17:33] <kokey> ;-)
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[17:41] <m0psi> ok, so it turns out this is a limitation of the dtostrf function
[17:41] <m0psi> i think
[17:42] <m0psi> y, so, i just will tx as int
[17:42] <m0psi> thanks guys
[17:42] <RG_LZ1DEV> what is m0psi ?
[17:42] <m0psi> well, tx as long
[17:42] <m0psi> m0psi is my radio callsign
[17:43] <m0psi> also, psi is the symbol used in psychology
[17:43] <m0psi> i'm a psych researcher
[17:43] <m0psi> Mopsi is also the name of one of the rabbits in Peter Rabbit stories
[17:43] <m0psi> Mopsi and Flopsi :-)
[17:44] <RG_LZ1DEV> what else?
[17:44] <m0psi> PSI, is of course a relevant SI unit for HAB
[17:44] <m0psi> can't think of anymore :-)
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> my initial inquiry was regarding the problem with dtostrf
[17:45] <m0psi> ah
[17:45] <m0psi> dtostrf(floatVar, minStringWidthIncDecimalPoint, numVarsAfterDecimal, charBuf);
[17:45] <m0psi> convert double or float into strings
[17:46] <m0psi> on arduino
[17:46] <RG_LZ1DEV> err
[17:46] <RG_LZ1DEV> ahh
[17:46] <RG_LZ1DEV> whats the issue ?
[17:47] <m0psi> i was trying to convert the gps time, to a string
[17:47] <m0psi> 112233.44
[17:47] <RG_LZ1DEV> dtostrf is what you need then :)
[17:47] <m0psi> but that function seems limited in the length of number
[17:47] <jcoxon> m0psi, is that gps time? did you say?
[17:47] <m0psi> y
[17:47] <jcoxon> why do you need the decimal then
[17:48] <m0psi> for gigles
[17:48] <jcoxon> you surely don't need to know that its .44 of a second
[17:48] <m0psi> no, but i was frustrated that i couldn't
[17:48] <jcoxon> fair enough but it would be so much happier as an int
[17:48] <jcoxon> and so would habitat
[17:48] <jcoxon> :-p
[17:48] <m0psi> you are right of course. but i did not know why it was not working
[17:48] <m0psi> no i do, i think
[17:49] <RG_LZ1DEV> it should work
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[17:49] <m0psi> i am going to behave and send as int :-)
[17:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> you need width of 10 and precision of 2
[17:50] <m0psi> y
[17:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> so dtostrf(double, 10, 2, buffer)
[17:50] <RG_LZ1DEV> doesnt work?
[17:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> buffer has to be at least 11
[17:51] <daveake> FWIW, I just leave it as a string :)
[17:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> in size
[17:51] <m0psi> the issue is that the float number is not working inthe first place
[17:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> there is no float on arduino
[17:51] <RG_LZ1DEV> :(
[17:51] <daveake> But then I'm just using NMEA on not UBX
[17:51] <m0psi> so, float f_test = 112233.44 is not happy
[17:52] <daveake> Arduino does do floats; it's the formatting for sprintf etc that's missing
[17:52] <daveake> 'cos it's not linked in unless you mess with the makefile
[17:52] <daveake> (I think - I've not tried)
[17:53] <RG_LZ1DEV> That is, the double implementation is exactly the same as the float, with no gain in precision.
[17:53] <RG_LZ1DEV> for arduino.cc
[17:53] <m0psi> hang on though jcoxon, the nmea sentence coming out is
[17:53] <m0psi> $GPGGA,151829.00,5111.05363,N,00049.19934,W,1,05,4.46,78.0,M,46.4,M,,*7E
[17:53] <m0psi> so, i was only trying to use the time as it was
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[17:54] <m0psi> so, in this case i just wanted to pull it out, and then make it a string
[17:54] <daveake> It's already a string :)
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[17:54] <m0psi> not if i'm using tinygps
[17:54] <daveake> Ah
[17:54] <m0psi> so, how do you get it as a string dave?
[17:55] <daveake> I don't, as you probably guessed
[17:55] <daveake> I mean, I don't use tinygps
[17:55] <m0psi> right, what do you use?
[17:55] <m0psi> you parse your own?
[17:55] <daveake> I parse it myself, and the parsing of that part just copies the time characters into another buffer.
[17:55] <m0psi> ok
[17:55] <daveake> And I stop doing that when I get to the dp
[17:55] <m0psi> fine
[17:56] <daveake> So I don't have ints or floats for the time
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[17:57] <m0psi> it's all upu's fault, he put me onto tinygps! :-(
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:59] <G7PMO_Kev> M0psi - I use TinyGPS and all is ok?
[17:59] <m0psi> glad to hear it! :-)
[17:59] <m0psi> i think i'm getting there
[18:00] <m0psi> only this last bit
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> hey upu, you home from work yet?
[18:00] <Upu> no
[18:00] <Upu> oh wait
[18:00] <G7PMO_Kev> M0psi - https://github.com/KevWal/JimBob
[18:00] <Upu> doh
[18:00] <Upu> hi Dan-K2VOL
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> hi :-)
[18:00] <m0psi> (i sound like a druggie!)
[18:00] <m0psi> thanks g7pmo
[18:01] <m0psi> hi upu, just been saying how wonderful your advice has been :-)
[18:01] <x-f> m0psi, i use PString from the maker of TinyGPS, it "prints" variables to the string, no hassle at all
[18:01] <Upu> So i read :)
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I just got a Wiring board from sparkfun that has an Atmega1281 on it to see if I can get the iridium controller software to run on it, it has a much smaller package than the 2560 chip
[18:02] <m0psi> ah, i'll give that a closer look. i did come across it
[18:03] <Upu> I have a new module
[18:03] <Upu> and daveake has his working
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> really! very nice!
[18:03] <daveake> Just doing the gateway into habitat now. It's Python-dependency hell at the mo :D
[18:04] <RG_LZ1DEV> :D
[18:04] <gb73d> daveake if u r launching this weekend I will have to give the launch site a miss been laid low by a cold
[18:04] <daveake> not this weekend
[18:05] <gb73d> ok when ?
[18:05] <Upu> I'll check my new module tonight
[18:05] <Upu> next weekend gb73d
[18:05] <daveake> maybe the following weekend
[18:05] <gb73d> hope to make it will see how it goes
[18:05] <gb73d> ty
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> oh daveake?
[18:05] <daveake> oh?
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> very nice to hear!
[18:06] <daveake> The Iridium?
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you using to interface on the modem side
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[18:06] <daveake> It's plugged in to an Arduino Mega, so I have enough serial ports
[18:06] <daveake> I'll do a Pi port after it's all working, connecting via the USB for that
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, have you gotten a chance to try my controller code?
[18:07] <daveake> At the mo the Arduino is just running a terminal program, and I have a small test program on the PC to send commands
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> would you mind giving my standalone arduino code a try?
[18:07] <daveake> Weeelll... I like to play with stuff myself first and then look see what others have done :)
[18:07] <daveake> No, sure, will do
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> no prob :-)
[18:07] <daveake> It's just nice to start from scratch
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm trying to get it in friendly shape for beginners to use
[18:08] <daveake> sometims
[18:08] <daveake> +e
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, I'll tell you that modem is a headache and a half to program for all of it's weird response timings
[18:08] <daveake> Indeed. I'm used to AT commands anyway so I just worked from the manual
[18:09] <daveake> Oh yeah, timings ...
[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> here's the code: https://github.com/steamfire/Iridium-AVR-Controller
[18:09] <daveake> TVM
[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a serial terminal interface so you can send messages and see the progress of the responses
[18:09] <daveake> cool
[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> or send raw AT commands
[18:09] <Upu> I'll have a play with that tonight
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> nice upu!
[18:10] <daveake> The web side has 2 methods of passing the messages on - email or via POST to a URL
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> I noticed, I'm a little disappointed that they're limiting the message length
[18:10] <Upu> ok this new one is responding via the USB anyway
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> a good start!
[18:10] <daveake> I set both up and sent 2 messages ... and nothing happened. Then about 18 hours they got through. Apparently my account wasn't set properly!
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[18:11] <daveake> Now that's fixed the messages come through very quickly.
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> how's that antenna doing for signal level?
[18:11] <daveake> Says 2/3 indoors and 5 outdoors
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> from what I can tell it's better than the helical Delorme is using in their InReach, which is deaf as a post
[18:11] <Upu> ...in the rain
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> wow
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I never get over 2 with the delorme helical
[18:12] <daveake> I've got a simple Python script (and I should add that this was my first ever Python script) hanging off a web server on my PC, so when the Iridium system POSTs to the URL, that script runs and logs the message
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> that's good news
[18:12] <daveake> Now I'm trying to get it to send the message (which will be the normal telemetry string) into habitat
[18:13] <Dan-K2VOL> very cool
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[18:14] <draix_> helo
[18:15] <Upu> hi there
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> one thing we should make sure to follow is the TX and retry timing rules that iridium has to avoid network congestion
[18:15] <draix_> i am trying to work my one of my sensors with my arduino, having some difficulties
[18:16] <Upu> which sensor and which Arduino ?
[18:16] <draix_> bmp085 & arduino UNO
[18:16] <draix_> i use an example code
[18:16] <Upu> ok whats the issue ?
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> they need people to randomize the time between transmissions
[18:17] <draix_> i upload the code, but the tx light is off, so there is no serial comm
[18:18] <Upu> ok so step back and test the serial port with the BMP disconnected
[18:19] <draix_> same thing happens
[18:20] <Upu> so you have an issue with the serial ?
[18:21] <draix_> i use a breadboard to connect the sensor, so i just insert the wire through the bmp's pins
[18:21] <Upu> yeah but step back are you getting any comms to your serial port
[18:21] <Upu> ?
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[18:21] <draix_> yes, i tested it
[18:21] <Upu> ok
[18:21] <Upu> how is the BMP085 mounted ? breakout ?
[18:22] <draix_> correct
[18:22] <Upu> sure its wired correctly ?
[18:22] <Upu> double double checked it ?
[18:26] <Upu> I've not used the BMP085 personally
[18:26] <Upu> but normally I just pull the thing apart and start from scratch when I get a situation like this
[18:27] <daveake> draix_ What connections do you have to the BMP085?
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[18:29] <draix_> upu, yep i just disconnected everything and now starting again, daveake i connected 3.3v to vcc, gnd to gnd, sda to analog pin 4, scl to analog pin 5
[18:30] <daveake> OK, and you're programming via the USB port?
[18:30] <draix_> yep
[18:31] <daveake> And what's the code (link to it please)
[18:31] <draix_> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/Barometric/BMP085_Example_Code.pde
[18:32] <daveake> OK and what happens when you open the serial port on the PC?
[18:32] <daveake> Oh, and is it programming ok?
[18:33] <draix_> nothing
[18:33] <daveake> Put a Serial.print statement straight after the Serial.begin statement and try again
[18:34] <draix_> nothing
[18:35] <daveake> Now unpluig the BMP and run again
[18:35] <eroomde> a firing from just now
[18:35] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/FOy6A.png
[18:35] <eroomde> jonsowman / Randomskk ^
[18:35] <jonsowman> oh wow
[18:35] <jonsowman> :D
[18:36] <eroomde> that's the engine we will hopefully show you tomorrow
[18:36] <draix_> nothing
[18:36] <eroomde> except
[18:36] <daveake> Just what you need for stir-frying with a wok
[18:36] <eroomde> the injector sacrificed itself in that firing
[18:36] <jonsowman> eroomde: can't wait
[18:36] <eroomde> it played a role in the combustion process
[18:36] <jonsowman> should be very cool
[18:36] <jonsowman> haha
[18:36] <jonsowman> nice
[18:36] <daveake> draix_ And the IDE says it programmed the device?
[18:36] <eroomde> that was a ox/methane injector
[18:36] <eroomde> we might/will have to swap it out for the ox/monoxide injector
[18:37] <eroomde> which might take a bit of bottle bashing
[18:37] <jonsowman> :)
[18:37] <draix_> yep
[18:37] <eroomde> but we should still hopefully be able to fire something
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[18:37] <jonsowman> great
[18:40] <mclane> draix_ the BMP085 is 3.3V I/O, the Arduino UNO is 5 V I/Oso you need level shifters
[18:40] <eroomde> jonsowman: if not then we can have some drinks anyway
[18:40] <jonsowman> eroomde: sounds good to me :)
[18:41] <jonsowman> we will be bringing your CUSF hoody/tshirt/mug
[18:41] <eroomde> oh awesome!
[18:41] <eroomde> thanks
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[18:41] <daveake> mclane Sparkfun seem to think it's OK - http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/253
[18:42] <daveake> That said, I've only ever used it with a 3.3V part
[18:43] <daveake> Checking http://www.bosch-sensortec.com/content/language1/downloads/BST-BMP085-DS000-05.pdf, it says 4.25V max supply, and inputs should be <= supply
[18:44] <daveake> So, erm, whoops --> Sparkfun
[18:45] <mclane> at least you run it out of spec the way Sparkfun suggests it, so the result may or may not work
[18:46] <eroomde> jonsowman: right, home time
[18:46] <eroomde> see you tomorrow
[18:46] <eroomde> call me if there are any issues
[18:46] <eroomde> tho i have crap signal here
[18:46] <eroomde> to call the phone number on http://www.ael.co.uk/home/contact/
[18:46] <eroomde> the office
[18:47] <eroomde> if you can't get through to me
[18:47] <jonsowman> sure
[18:47] <jonsowman> will do
[18:47] <jonsowman> see you about 11 ish
[18:47] <jonsowman> :)
[18:47] <eroomde> see you
[18:55] <zyp> mclane, no, they are not running out of spec
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[18:55] <zyp> I2C use open drain signalling, pulled up to 3.3V
[18:55] <zyp> which means that the highest level on signal lines is 3.3V
[18:55] <zyp> and that should still be high enough to register as high on a 5V AVR
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[19:03] <mclane> zyp that is clear but what about the input of the sensor?
[19:04] <mclane> Vddio max 3.6 V?
[19:04] <zyp> you are not understanding what I wrote.
[19:04] <zyp> I2C use open drain signalling
[19:05] <zyp> meaning that neither the AVR nor the sensor does supply any signal power to assert a high signal
[19:05] <zyp> they only pull it down to assert a low signal
[19:05] <zyp> when they transmit a high signal, they release it, and it is pulled up by the external pullup, connected to 3.3V
[19:06] <zyp> so there is no way the singal voltage is going to exceed that.
[19:11] <mclane> ok, I looked into the ic spec - you are right
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[19:16] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hi jcoxon
[19:17] <jcoxon> hey Dan-K2VOL
[19:24] <cuddykid> <non_hab> good deal for those with good uplink - https://www.crashplan.com/bigsale/index.vtl </non_hab_>
[19:26] <m0psi> i'm using crashplan btw, seems to work well
[19:27] <cuddykid> I had never heard of it before - got it early at $2 something - currently have 2days left on the upload!
[19:27] <cuddykid> this is on a virgin media 30meg - but only ~2mbps upload
[19:29] <draix_> now its working,
[19:30] <daveake> What changed?
[19:31] <draix_> i think its the jumper wires iwas using, i used pitch header and wired it directly.
[19:32] <draix_> it was just the wiring
[19:32] <daveake> ok
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[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> hey daveake/upu, are either of you near your rockblock? could you see what the supercap model is so I can see what the temp range is?
[19:39] <daveake> Powerstor Aerogel
[19:39] <daveake> PM series 3F 5V
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> thx
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> awesome it's 40C
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> one of their early protos was not using a good cold rated one
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[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> thx daveake
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[20:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-20463857
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
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[20:47] <m0psi> does habitat take time as an int? or a formatted hh:mm:ss.cc string?
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[20:54] <RG_LZ1DEV> m0psi: most likely in hhmmss
[20:55] <m0psi> ta
[20:55] <m0psi> as int, right?
[20:56] <RG_LZ1DEV> hold on let me check on that
[20:56] <RG_LZ1DEV> seems to be hh:mm:ss
[20:56] <m0psi> oh, as a string, with the ":"
[20:57] <RG_LZ1DEV> seems so
[20:57] <m0psi> thank you
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[21:00] <Gnea> so this is almost done: http://harp.aerodynelabs.com/
[21:03] <DrLuke> hi m0psi!
[21:06] <m0psi> hey doc
[21:06] <m0psi> c++ and me do not get on
[21:06] <m0psi> i thought i saw the back of it years ago
[21:07] <m0psi> it has come to bite me
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[22:22] <jdtanner> Evening :) PWM again :P Those of you that are using PWM to drive your NTX2&are you filtering the PWM signal from the arduino?
[22:24] <RG_LZ1DEV> dont think they use PWM at all
[22:27] <jonsowman> so when I last did it
[22:27] <jonsowman> i used 64kHz PWM
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[22:27] <jonsowman> and a 1kHz RC low pass filter
[22:27] <jonsowman> worked very nicely
[22:28] <jdtanner> cool, thanks :)
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, nice to see you again btw :)
[22:35] <jdtanner> u 2 :)
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[23:14] <fsphil> I didn't bother with a filter on the PWM output
[23:17] <PE2G> Anyone who knows when BUZZ, MONDO-3 and CRAAG1 will fly?
[23:18] <daveake> BUZZ is just a test of a new tracker
[23:20] <PE2G> OK, thanks for the info What about the other two?
[23:20] <daveake> no idea
[23:21] <daveake> Could be months away with the current weather :D
[23:23] <PE2G> Here in the Netherlands WX is quite good, apart from the current fog.
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 24 2012