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[00:06] <Laurenceb_> RAGEEE
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[00:06] <Laurenceb_> why the hell did active robots bastardize the stepper motor datasheets
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> i want the manufacturers datasheets
[00:07] <natrium42> not can has
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> im going to bed :(
[00:07] <natrium42> good night, sweet prince
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[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[03:39] <heathkid> hello everyone!
[03:41] <fsphil> yo
[03:41] <heathkid> hello fsphil
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=121019740016&index=16&nav=SEARCH&nid=37971219212
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> cheap if
[03:43] <heathkid> and hello SpeedEvil!
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> hi
[03:43] <SpeedEvil> ir
[03:44] <heathkid> uh... I got this Davis Instruments radar reflector in the mail today... where does it go?
[03:44] <heathkid> :)
[03:44] <heathkid> I'm guessing between the parashoot and the balloon?
[03:44] <heathkid> it just keeps going?
[03:44] <fsphil> whereever you like :)
[03:45] <heathkid> after cutdown or burst?
[03:45] <fsphil> I'd put it below the chute
[03:45] <heathkid> not really helpful...
[03:45] <fsphil> it will have more drag than the payload but less than the chute (ideally)
[03:45] <heathkid> why below?
[03:45] <heathkid> ah
[03:46] <heathkid> then I might get to use it again
[03:46] <heathkid> *might* being a VERY optimistic term...
[03:46] <heathkid> for first launch... :)
[03:47] <fsphil> lots of furst launches go ok :)
[03:47] <fsphil> first*
[03:48] <heathkid> 600g Kaymont, 36" parashoot, Davis radar reflector, and an APRS payload.... for a first launch...
[03:48] <heathkid> maybe
[03:48] <heathkid> still might just get a couple party balloons and hope for the best
[03:49] <heathkid> or is it a 30" parashoot? I can't remember...
[03:50] <heathkid> still undecided if I want to go with a simple mylar launch as a first to test tracking gear... or go full out for a high-altitude launch
[03:50] <heathkid> payload is <600g
[03:50] <fsphil> to be honest a latex launch is simpler
[03:51] <heathkid> how so?
[03:51] <fsphil> less to go wrong
[03:52] <fsphil> foils have an annoying habbit of floating, or bursting very early
[03:52] <heathkid> what all can go wrong? either way?
[03:52] <heathkid> ah
[03:52] <heathkid> was planning two 3 ft. mylars with a cutdown
[03:52] <heathkid> on one
[03:53] <heathkid> low altitude... less float... as a test
[03:54] <heathkid> sounds easier than a latex with parashoot, radar reflector, cutdowns, etc.... other than I could get up high fast to burst and not have to drive several states away to retrieve it...
[03:55] <heathkid> so high altitude and fast with minimal float... or cheaper, easier, but probably more problems even at a much lower altitude?
[03:55] <fsphil> a 600g with enough gas will not go up very high
[03:55] <heathkid> 100k ft.
[03:56] <fsphil> and guaranteed to burst
[03:56] <heathkid> 6 ft. diameter launch... 20 ft. diameter burst
[03:57] <heathkid> or so Kaymont states...
[03:57] <heathkid> or is that wrong?
[03:57] <fsphil> no idea
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[04:02] <heathkid> then how do you know a 600g won't go up very high?
[04:02] <fsphil> I've launched a 1000g, it got to 31km. just extrapolating :)
[04:03] <heathkid> how much did your payload weigh and how much gas did you fill it with?
[04:03] <fsphil> 500g-ish, didn't measure the gas
[04:04] <heathkid> are you in the US?
[04:04] <fsphil> nah, UK
[04:05] <fsphil> well I live there, in .AU atm
[04:05] <heathkid> ah... so no APRS
[04:05] <fsphil> nah, old fasion aprs
[04:05] <fsphil> er, rtty
[04:05] <heathkid> lots of friends in Oz
[04:05] <fsphil> it's a really nice place
[04:06] <heathkid> I'd like to visit some day
[04:06] <heathkid> most of my friends live in Perth
[04:06] <heathkid> some down south
[04:07] <heathkid> a few on the east coast
[04:07] <fsphil> aah, Perth's a long way from here :)
[04:07] <heathkid> other side?
[04:07] <fsphil> yea
[04:08] <heathkid> I used to work for a company out of Perth
[04:08] <heathkid> time zone thing sucked as by the time I got home for the night the office was opening in Oz...
[04:08] <heathkid> I was sorta working 24 hours a day
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[04:09] <fsphil> that's never fun
[04:09] <heathkid> sleeping in between phone calls
[04:09] <heathkid> yea
[04:09] <fsphil> work to live, don't live to work :)
[04:09] <heathkid> is there a difference?
[04:10] <fsphil> well if you're working 24 hours a day, then yes :)
[04:10] <heathkid> but I loved it
[04:10] <heathkid> no longer with them...
[04:11] <heathkid> still miss it
[04:11] <heathkid> but that was then and this is now...
[04:11] <heathkid> and I just want to launch a balloon in the Spring... learning all I can now before first launch.
[04:12] <heathkid> no, I'm not going to tie my Galaxy S3 to a 600g Kaymont and "away it goes"...
[04:13] <heathkid> I might not take baby steps... but want to do it right the first time
[04:13] <heathkid> and the 2nd
[04:13] <heathkid> and the 50th
[04:13] <heathkid> etc...
[04:15] <heathkid> and I'd like to learn more about what you folks in the UK do for RTTY as a backup...
[04:15] <heathkid> APRS is a bit too easy
[04:15] <heathkid> but I still need a backup
[04:16] <heathkid> and then there is the CW beacon as a backup to the backup...
[04:16] <fsphil> rtty is pretty simple too. possibly more so than aprs, although the requirement fo ran SSB receiver is a bit of a sticking point
[04:16] <heathkid> not for me... either is basically the same
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[04:17] <heathkid> and don't you mean a SSB transmitter?
[04:18] <heathkid> in the US.... I can launch a dual-band HT with no problems...
[04:18] <fsphil> nope, the module we use is an FM one
[04:18] <fsphil> but with slight voltage variations it can transmit two frequencies for FSK
[04:20] <Darkside> it basically a VCO in a can
[04:23] <heathkid> this is going to be my first payload (part of it)... http://www.ebay.com/itm/261114591451
[04:23] <heathkid> has the Radiometrix HX-1 transmitting 300mW on 144.390
[04:25] <heathkid> it's tiny
[04:26] <heathkid> Darkside: isn't a VCO in a can easy enough to build anyway?
[04:26] <heathkid> for any band?
[04:27] <Darkside> well yes, but not easily to make work well
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[04:27] <heathkid> true
[04:27] <Darkside> its the same kind of transmitter as the HX1
[04:27] <heathkid> but very few parts if done right
[04:27] <heathkid> which one then?
[04:27] <Darkside> just instead of feeding an audio tone, we're directly modulating it with logic levels
[04:27] <Darkside> NTX2
[04:28] <heathkid> hmm
[04:28] <heathkid> and where do you find that?
[04:29] <Darkside> upu sell them
[04:29] <heathkid> link?
[04:29] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=61
[04:29] <heathkid> thanks!
[04:29] <Darkside> there is a 25mW version too
[04:30] <Darkside> which you might be able to get from a local distributor, if you can find one
[04:30] <heathkid> I was going to say... 10mW?
[04:31] <Darkside> its enough
[04:31] <Darkside> remember, the modulation is quite slow, so the power is concentrated in a very narrow bandwidth
[04:32] <Darkside> using 50 baud RTTY, 10mW goes a very very long way
[04:32] <heathkid> I need to read up on it more....
[04:32] <Darkside> current record is 800km i think
[04:32] <heathkid> 50 baud?
[04:32] <heathkid> so much for live HD video! :)
[04:33] <Darkside> well eys
[04:33] <fsphil> 300 baud record is something silly too, like 700km
[04:33] <Darkside> but the idea behing the telemetry transmitter is to have a *reliable* tracking sysrem
[04:33] <heathkid> indeed
[04:33] <heathkid> everything else is a bonus
[04:33] <heathkid> tracking is everything
[04:33] <Darkside> i'd suggest you do all the other stuff as separate systems
[04:34] <fsphil> if you can do HF video live then tracking should be simple for you :)
[04:34] <fsphil> *HD
[04:34] <fsphil> HF video would be quite neat though
[04:34] <Darkside> lol
[04:34] <Darkside> SSTV :P
[04:34] <heathkid> I used to use that while storm chasing
[04:34] <heathkid> it was a bit slow
[04:35] <heathkid> but FASTER than the radar updates I got!!!
[04:35] <Darkside> heathkid: anyway, in australia we *can* use APRS
[04:35] <Darkside> but we still use the 70cm RTTY stuff
[04:35] <heathkid> more reliable?
[04:35] <heathkid> or just cheaper?
[04:35] <Darkside> both
[04:35] <heathkid> or both?
[04:35] <heathkid> :)
[04:35] <Darkside> HX1 modules cost about $60 here
[04:35] <heathkid> brb
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[04:59] <heathkid> they aren't exactly cheap here either...
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[07:42] <UpuWork> I sell the HX1 modules as well heathkid, Euro ones
[07:43] <UpuWork> morning
[08:01] <eroomde> morning
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[08:08] <costyn> morning
[08:12] <eroomde> morning costyn
[08:12] <costyn> any news in habland?
[08:14] <eroomde> not from me, as usual
[08:15] <fsphil> nor here
[08:15] <fsphil> still not launched, is that news? :)
[08:16] <eroomde> i am building a little simple tracker payload though
[08:16] <costyn> fsphil: heh
[08:16] <eroomde> in anticipation of flying some stuff to test next year
[08:16] <costyn> eroomde: what are you testing?
[08:16] <eroomde> probably some avionics for a sounding rocket we're building
[08:17] <eroomde> higher speed telemetry systems
[08:17] <costyn> cool
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[08:17] <costyn> going to drop the test-payload and test telemetry while in freefall
[08:17] <costyn> ?
[08:17] <eroomde> so i'm making a little separate tracker payload that's quite robust, waterproof, full of self diagnostics, and mechanically and electrically sound
[08:17] <eroomde> so that i need not worry about it
[08:18] <eroomde> not free-fall this time :)
[08:18] <eroomde> just want to get a longish range check really
[08:18] <costyn> ah so high-speed data, not high-speed payload
[08:18] <eroomde> lol sorry
[08:18] <eroomde> yes
[08:18] <eroomde> higher data rates
[08:18] <costyn> when I think rockets, I think high speed speed
[08:18] <eroomde> this will be high speed too
[08:19] <eroomde> about mach 5
[08:19] <eroomde> but not mach 5 close to the ground
[08:19] <costyn> cool
[08:19] <eroomde> so heating thermal management can be kept not too woowoo
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[08:22] <eroomde> but the tracker box, though v simple, should be fun. I'm building it to be a bit of a tank, with a milled ali top plate populated with some robust mil-spec circular connectors for various things like power, serial, pyros
[08:22] <costyn> cool
[08:22] <costyn> and you get paid to do this right?
[08:23] <eroomde> and a nice sealed military toggle switch under a switch guard to arm the pyros and put the payload into flight mode
[08:23] <eroomde> yes :)
[08:23] <costyn> lucky man
[08:23] <eroomde> well, the balloon tracker payload is not really mega necessary
[08:23] <eroomde> i'll be doing it in gaps between other stuff
[08:23] <eroomde> but work will cover the cost
[08:23] Action: fsphil is still holding out for his job of surfing the internet
[08:23] <eroomde> and those connectors are delicious but not the cheapest
[08:23] <costyn> eroomde: in any case, it sounds like fun
[08:24] <costyn> fsphil: hehe good luck with that
[08:24] <eroomde> these are the connectors
[08:24] <eroomde> http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/images/R3014664-06.jpg
[08:24] <eroomde> panel mount, and ip68 if you mount them with little rubber gaskets, which I will
[08:25] <costyn> noice
[08:25] <eroomde> and the mating sides are also really nice
[08:25] <eroomde> they bayonet lock in very very robustless
[08:25] <eroomde> you could probably hang off them
[08:25] <eroomde> robustly*
[08:26] <eroomde> and they come with a range of specificly sized adhesive heatshrink back shells so you can make a completely watertight system, including all the external wires
[08:27] <eroomde> there other reason for making a waterproof, bombproof payload is because I finally want to launch stormhab
[08:28] <eroomde> where a hab is released right into the belly of a big storm
[08:29] <costyn> that sounds exciting too
[08:30] <eroomde> it would be quite fun, I think
[08:30] <eroomde> to fly in with a decent datalogger and see how it's thrown about
[08:30] <eroomde> and then take photos of cumulonimbus from above
[08:30] <eroomde> if it makes it through alive, ofcourse
[08:31] <eroomde> costyn: have you read the account of the paraglider who got sucked into a storm cell?
[08:33] <costyn> eroomde: have heard of it, actually I had a gf who stayed up like 20 minutes when she was a student skydiver (huge parachute) and got caught up in some weird ass updraft. In hindsight getting out of the plane just before the huge clouds rolled in wasn't a great idea
[08:33] <costyn> eroomde: do you mean that woman who almost froze to death?
[08:36] <eroomde> yeah
[08:36] <eroomde> who wrapped themselves in their chute to keep warm
[08:37] <eroomde> and were stuck being flung around for about 20 minutes
[08:37] <eroomde> being bashed by ice
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[08:37] <eroomde> getting hypoxia when being thrown up to the top of the cloud
[08:37] <eroomde> then got spat out eventually about 300ft off the deck, had the presence of mind to deploy the reserve
[08:37] <costyn> that's awful
[08:37] <eroomde> costyn: i'm doing a jump soon hopefully
[08:37] <eroomde> i am quite excited
[08:38] <costyn> eroomde: cool, which dropzone?
[08:38] <eroomde> locally at bicester hopefully
[08:38] <eroomde> want to test out gps/ins package we're building
[08:38] <eroomde> our*
[08:38] <costyn> heh
[08:38] <costyn> are you paying for it yourself?
[08:39] <costyn> seems like an expensive way to test equipment hehe
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[08:40] <eroomde> it's kinda for the shiggles too
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[08:40] <eroomde> will strap a couple of gopros on
[08:41] <costyn> did you ask if that was ok?
[08:41] <eroomde> no not yet
[08:42] <costyn> its unusual for tandem passengers to take along a camera
[08:42] <costyn> but perhaps the tandemmaster can take a hand mounted gopro
[08:43] <eroomde> maybe i should drive to the netherlands...
[08:44] <costyn> heh
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[08:44] <costyn> well they won't feel much different about it here (passenger carrying a camera)
[08:46] <costyn> eroomde: but if you discuss it ahead of time, I'm sure you and the dropzone can work out something
[08:46] <costyn> eroomde: just saying if you show up on the day itself with a bunch of gopro's, that won't work :)
[08:46] <costyn> anyways
[08:46] <costyn> I need to go ttyl
[08:48] <eroomde> cheers
[08:48] <eroomde> ttyl
[08:53] <fsphil> like this, http://www.flickr.com/photos/unripegreenbanana/8183324475/
[08:54] <eroomde> nice
[08:59] <eroomde> http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=20398
[08:59] <eroomde> eaglie viewer for android
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[09:10] <zyp> eroomde, nice, can it highlight signals?
[09:13] <SamSilver> trans atlantic attempt http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0s4Q04gaaoV9KnJ0UMb7h5b90telngQjv
[09:13] <SamSilver> http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0s4Q04gaaoV9KnJ0UMb7h5b90telngQjv
[09:13] <UpuWork2> in progress ?
[09:13] <SamSilver> nope
[09:13] <SamSilver> iminent
[09:14] <SamSilver> 4:35pm local Leon, Mexico 11/15/2012
[09:14] <SamSilver> looks like they late
[09:14] <SamSilver> http://www.indiegogo.com/upacrosstheatlantic
[09:14] <UpuWork2> oh wow
[09:15] Nick change: UpuWork2 -> UpuWork
[09:16] <UpuWork> http://clusterballoon.com/assets/media/CasasYesFlyingHouse.png
[09:16] <UpuWork> oh its that dude
[09:16] <UpuWork> http://clusterballoon.com/assets/media/TheAlpsCluster_SeriousAtDawn.jpg
[09:17] <UpuWork> http://clusterballoon.com/assets/media/LaIndependencia_SkiesOfMexico.jpg
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[09:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "RE: [UKHAS] Launch announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) 13th, 6am - PICO @ Southampton"
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[10:29] <wibble_> UpuWork: still no joy on the ezcap - what antenna would you recommend to use?
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[10:37] <fsphil> you should get some signals even with a short length of wire
[10:39] <fsphil> well, I guess that also depends on where you live
[10:39] <wibble_> Indeed. its pretty good around here
[10:39] <fsphil> are you able to receive commercial radio with it?
[10:39] <wibble_> I've got a short length of wire attached and absolutely zip
[10:40] <UpuWork> hey wibble
[10:40] <NavracWork> my ezcap was pretty deaf to be honest, i had yo couple it to a preamp to get nay use out of it. Even with the supplied aerial i could only get one fm station here
[10:40] <UpuWork> I'll post another out to you today
[10:40] <UpuWork> just in case
[10:40] <fsphil> interesting
[10:40] <wibble_> don't worry about it!
[10:40] <fsphil> it's possible the FM stations are unusually strong where I live
[10:40] <UpuWork> just PM me your real name so I can find your address
[10:41] <wibble_> seriously don't worry about it until i've done some more testing!!
[10:41] <fsphil> you should see some traffic on 433.900 mhz and about +/- 100khz
[10:42] <wibble_> I get my car keyfob
[10:42] <wibble_> so maybe its just the fm
[10:42] <fsphil> if you can receive that then it suggests its working
[10:42] <NavracWork> i could get my hab payload - but only at short ranges
[10:42] <UpuWork> wibble_ do you have an NTX2 or anything ?
[10:43] <wibble_> I'm trying to get hold of a second hand receiver anyway
[10:43] <wibble_> not yet, no
[10:43] <wibble_> on my list once I confirm which ardinuo I want to buy
[10:43] <fsphil> are you using it with habamp by any chance?
[10:44] <UpuWork> no I ruled that out last night :)
[10:44] <fsphil> as that would filter out broadcast FM
[10:44] <fsphil> aah
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[10:48] <NavracWork> wibble- I dug out the yupiteru last night - works well but im not convinced about the battery contacts as it looks like it had a battery leak at some time in its history. I'll find some batteries and check they make a decent contact, I've used it previously mobile while tracking down a payload and it worked on batteries then
[10:49] <NavracWork> that cluster balloon just updated its position
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[10:53] <UpuWork> hey NavracWork
[10:53] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/si86S
[10:53] <UpuWork> New board note GND near crystal
[10:53] <UpuWork> I did a version with a linear reg on too
[10:54] <NavracWork> looks huge upu, loads of spare space ;-)
[10:54] <fsphil> wait, is that balloon just flying a boat?
[10:54] <UpuWork> haha
[10:54] <UpuWork> 50mm tall x 26mm
[10:56] <NavracWork> the only way from here is to ditch the rfm and place the si4432 chip directly on the pcb.
[10:56] <NavracWork> could shave off as much as 3mm off the board
[10:57] <UpuWork> Well I took 5mm off the last one
[10:58] <UpuWork> mainly to get it down to the cheaper something x 50mm price range
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[11:03] <wibble_> NavracWork: thanks just let me know!
[11:04] <NavracWork> will do wibble_
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[11:28] <NavracWork> wibble_ just saw your email and replied.
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[12:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) 13th, 6am - PICO @ Southampton"
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[12:56] Nick change: MLow-werk -> MLow
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[13:46] <Laurenceb> eroomde: why dont you use ultramotion actuators?
[13:47] <eroomde> because
[13:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "Re: [UKHAS] TDMA"
[13:49] <Laurenceb> hehe
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[14:12] <kokey> why don't you use xbee and rapsberry pi and ruby on rails and insurance
[14:14] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ping
[14:15] <Laurenceb> do you know how to change default colours in gnuplot?
[14:16] <RG_LZ1DEV> colours of what?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> the lines
[14:17] <RG_LZ1DEV> data lines?
[14:17] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:17] <Laurenceb> the yellow looks bad on a white background
[14:17] <mattbrejza> open in paint and use the fill tool
[14:17] <Laurenceb> lollllllll
[14:17] <RG_LZ1DEV> haha
[14:17] <RG_LZ1DEV> Laurenceb: you just add 'lc rg "red"'
[14:17] <RG_LZ1DEV> to the plot line
[14:17] <Laurenceb> yeah something like that
[14:18] <Laurenceb> oh to the plot
[14:18] <RG_LZ1DEV> lc is short for line colour
[14:18] <RG_LZ1DEV> lc rgb 'red'
[14:18] <Laurenceb> thanx
[14:18] <Laurenceb> that worked
[14:21] <Randomskk> you dont' need rgb do you?
[14:22] <Randomskk> there are a ton of ways of doing it anyway
[14:22] <Randomskk> but yea whatever
[14:22] <Randomskk> it works
[14:22] <eroomde> we never heard back from the chap who needed help picking a colourscheme did we
[14:23] <RG_LZ1DEV> Randomskk: i believe you need rgb, its part of the colourspec
[14:23] <eroomde> maybe he's spent the last two weeks organizing a focus group on stainless steel fixings vs normal steel
[14:24] <Randomskk> I don't think he was hugely impressed with our response given where he turned next
[14:25] <mattbrejza> did he state a university in case a launch annoucement appears in the summer?
[14:27] <NavracWork> mattbrejza - did your last payload have radials or just a trailing 1/4 wave wire?
[14:28] <Laurenceb> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=236156
[14:28] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[14:28] <Darkside> eroomde: were you there when we found his /b/ thread?
[14:28] <mattbrejza> 1/4 wave down and kinda one up
[14:28] <mattbrejza> so like a dipole
[14:28] <Laurenceb> thats why solenoids dont work for linear actuators
[14:28] <mattbrejza> but the up one wasnt that far up
[14:28] <eroomde> yes i was
[14:28] <Laurenceb> its driven with a sawtooth duty cycle
[14:28] <Darkside> eek
[14:28] <Laurenceb> but thats no sawtooth
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[14:28] <Darkside> mattbrejza: thats not going to radiate nicewly
[14:28] <Darkside> nicely*
[14:29] <Laurenceb> due to the friction
[14:29] <Darkside> radiation pattern would have been screwed
[14:29] <mattbrejza> it radiated enough
[14:29] <Laurenceb> tons of friction
[14:29] <Darkside> at 10mW you really need all the help you can get
[14:29] <Laurenceb> due to the sideways attraction forces on the plunger
[14:29] <Darkside> use some radials next time
[14:29] <mattbrejza> the slight issue was that were was a balloon neck in the way
[14:30] <Laurenceb> eroomde: do you think im right?
[14:30] <NavracWork> drift was more likely due to the caps and r's in the cc430 than the actual crystal
[14:30] <Darkside> mattbrejza: steve managed to do it
[14:30] <mattbrejza> next one will have the radio module at the bottom and have the upper half of the dipole along the case
[14:30] <mattbrejza> was his actually in the neck though?
[14:30] <Darkside> yes
[14:30] <eroomde> Laurenceb: not reading sorry
[14:30] <eroomde> i have to go now to london
[14:30] <eroomde> to see a man
[14:30] <Laurenceb> heh nvm
[14:30] <eroomde> elon again
[14:30] <Laurenceb> have fun
[14:30] <Laurenceb> srsly?
[14:30] <Darkside> can someone find the pic of steves 100g launch?
[14:30] <eroomde> yes
[14:30] <NavracWork> yes - just tie wrapped to the tube with a bit poking out for the radials and radiating elelment
[14:30] <Laurenceb> your the man eroomde
[14:31] <Laurenceb> *you are
[14:31] <mattbrejza> it would have been difficuilt given the arrangment of everything in the case
[14:31] <eroomde> so my hareem tells me
[14:31] <Darkside> mattbrejza: then change the case
[14:31] <mattbrejza> but i would be interested to see steves
[14:31] <Laurenceb> hehe
[14:31] <Darkside> you really don't want to fly a dipole
[14:31] <mattbrejza> yea hence talk of rv 2 :P
[14:31] <Darkside> not if you're goign to be beneath the balloon
[14:31] <wibble_> UpuWork: so the plot thickens - with the car remote and my external antenna I can get the 433.5mhz signal from 50 metres away
[14:32] <mattbrejza> the biggest issue was the fading from it swinging around mind you
[14:32] <Darkside> yes
[14:32] <Darkside> a 1/4 wave might help with that a litte
[14:32] <mattbrejza> dipole is only 3dB down on a 'standard' antenna?
[14:33] <Darkside> well you are going to be radiating out and also up
[14:33] <Darkside> and you want all that energy going down
[14:33] <mattbrejza> so 3dB?
[14:33] <Darkside> maybe
[14:33] <Darkside> but you didn't have a dipole
[14:34] <Darkside> the radiation pattern would have been a fair way off a dipole antenna, as you wouldn't have been feeding it balanced
[14:34] <Darkside> no idea what the actual radiation pattern would be
[14:34] <mattbrejza> well the antenna started directly from the output of the radio module
[14:34] <Darkside> i seriously reccomend you design in some ground radials
[14:35] <Darkside> its not hard to have some bits of single core wire coming out of the payload container
[14:35] <mattbrejza> i knew the radiation wouldnt be ideal but it did work
[14:35] <mattbrejza> but there are various imporvments to male
[14:35] <mattbrejza> issue was the radio part was at the top of the case with a battery in the way
[14:36] <bertrik> what kind of antenna is usually used in HAB?
[14:36] <mattbrejza> rv2 would have the gps above the battery and radio below it
[14:36] <Darkside> bertrik: 1/4 wave monopole
[14:36] <Darkside> upside down
[14:36] <craag> If the balloon is swinging around enough though, a ground plane is going to cause fading i would think.
[14:36] <NavracWork> even a dipole would have been a big impedance mismatch as well as radiating in the wrong directions
[14:37] <Darkside> craag: probably as much as a dipole
[14:37] <bertrik> Darkside: so, just a 1/4 wire sticking out of the bottom of the box? Is there a picture/photo of it somewhere?
[14:37] <Darkside> bertrik: with a ground plane
[14:37] <Darkside> lots of photos around
[14:37] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2012-10-07_Horus_29/Pages/26.html
[14:38] <Darkside> theres one built into a payload box
[14:38] <craag> The real question I think is how much it is thinking. The only way to find out is fly an accelerometer I guess.
[14:38] <craag> *how much it is swinging
[14:38] <NavracWork> I use slim jims - mainly to be different, although my next one is a slim jim with two extra half wave sectionss
[14:38] <bertrik> Darkside: ah, ok, thanks!
[14:38] <Darkside> NavracWork: but that'll radiate more to the horizon
[14:39] <NavracWork> yes exactly
[14:39] <Darkside> long duration floaters?
[14:39] <mattbrejza> well was the fading because the radiation pattern was moving around of because of dopler and so constructive/destructive interference
[14:39] <Darkside> uh
[14:39] <NavracWork> I dont care about underneath really - with picos its all about the horizon
[14:39] <bertrik> doppler, really?
[14:39] <Darkside> you won' get doppler from it swinging around
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[14:39] <mattbrejza> lol ok
[14:40] <Darkside> if you're beneath it when the balloon bursts, sure
[14:40] <NavracWork> have to be swinging fast!
[14:40] <Darkside> the fading would have been from the balloon bobbing around
[14:40] <NavracWork> without a long string and payload theres no real incentive for the balloon to face in any particular direction i guess
[14:41] <Darkside> yeah
[14:41] <Darkside> centre of gravity is too close to the centre of hhe balloon
[14:41] <Darkside> that 2m limit is a bitch :P
[14:41] <Darkside> oh well, better than our 50g limit
[14:41] <mattbrejza> 50g inc balloon?
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[14:42] <Darkside> that depends on how you read the legislation
[14:42] <Darkside> it says a 50g payload >_>
[14:42] <mattbrejza> thats easy enough#
[14:42] <NavracWork> well thats okay then...
[14:42] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure they meant <50g all up though
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[14:42] <Darkside> but the wording does say <50g payload
[14:43] <NavracWork> 2000g baloonb 12g tracker
[14:43] <Darkside> yup lol
[14:43] <mattbrejza> it doesnt matter what they ment to say :P
[14:43] <Darkside> we've done 200g balloons with <50g payloads a few times now
[14:43] <m0psi> quick arduino question: what is the best way to turn int into string. Is there something like int2str ?
[14:43] <Darkside> sprintf
[14:43] <NavracWork> sprintf
[14:43] <m0psi> ta
[14:43] <Darkside> do it all in one go
[14:43] <UpuWork> sprintf(string,"%i",int);
[14:44] <UpuWork> floating points don't work though
[14:44] <mattbrejza> also snprintf if you like to be safe
[14:44] <m0psi> ok, what to do with float then?
[14:44] <zyp> the best thing is not using float at all
[14:45] <UpuWork> ---/\
[14:45] <UpuWork> turn them into ints
[14:45] <UpuWork> and watch for padding
[14:45] <UpuWork> i.e 1.00001
[14:45] <UpuWork> should not end up as 1.1
[14:45] <m0psi> oh, so multiply up, then divide down later?
[14:45] <craag> I've multiplied them by 10 or 100 on the payload to transmit an int, and then divide them by 10 or 100 in the habitat payload doc..
[14:45] <UpuWork> yeah habitat can do that with its filters
[14:46] <NavracWork> dtostrf(battV, 3, 1, battVS);
[14:46] <m0psi> ok, got it
[14:46] <Darkside> yes, dtostrf works nicely
[14:46] <Darkside> surprised more people don't use it
[14:47] <NavracWork> ive got a gfsk 256 baud definition for the rfm if you want it darkside
[14:47] <NavracWork> turns out 128 is only possible with manchester - which is cheating
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[14:55] <gonzo_> I preefr to downlink telemetry ADC values raw and convert them on the ground. Simplifies the flight SW
[14:56] <gonzo_> and from an engineering stand, you want the raw data. Which you can masarge as req
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[14:56] <DrLuke> but you might prefer human readable data
[14:57] <DrLuke> and evaluate the raw data afterwards from an sd-card
[14:57] <DrLuke> or other means of logging stuff onboard
[14:57] <gonzo_> hmmm, sd card sounds like a huge complication for flight sw
[14:58] <DrLuke> not really
[14:58] <DrLuke> it should be manageable
[14:59] <Darkside> its not that hard to add in
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[14:59] <Darkside> means more complexity on the board
[14:59] <Darkside> and won't be easy to do with something like a RFM22B transmitter
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[14:59] <Darkside> as it'd need to use SPI too
[15:00] <gonzo_> just writing the basic tty stuff in a robust way is enough for me
[15:07] <Darkside> zzzz time
[15:07] <Darkside> nn
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[15:23] <daveake> Darkside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/7902498900/in/photostream
[15:24] <eroomde> i'm on a buuuuus
[15:25] <daveake> oh, too late :D
[15:25] <Laurenceb> you the BOSS
[15:25] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c
[15:26] <RG_LZ1DEV> poor balloon
[15:26] <RG_LZ1DEV> :(
[15:26] <mattbrejza> yea steve had it a bit easier from an antenna point of view
[15:26] <Laurenceb> interesting
[15:27] <Laurenceb> payload inside the balloon, thats got to be a first for uk hab
[15:27] <eroomde> no
[15:27] <daveake> Dunno, but that's about the neatest installation I've seen
[15:28] <Laurenceb> nice launch technique
[15:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/7917181410/in/photostream
[15:29] <Laurenceb> omg alienzzz
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[15:40] <SamSilver> anyone else use a TPEOE4045?
[15:43] <costyn> SamSilver: what is it? Google doesn't know it
[15:43] <SamSilver> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/7902502958/in/photostream/
[15:43] <SamSilver> :p
[15:44] <costyn> I see :)
[15:44] <SamSilver> slow day heading home in 5
[15:44] <costyn> SamSilver: looked like an electronic part number... power reg or somesuch :)
[15:46] <SamSilver> costyn: what is flying or should i say floating this weekend
[15:46] <SamSilver> early launch on Saturday i think
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[15:47] <SamSilver> had 5 days of conferencing aiming for a quite weekend with some spacenear.us fun
[15:53] <SamSilver> right home time
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[16:24] <SpeedEvil> massive flypast just now.
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> >2000 geese.
[16:25] Action: SpeedEvil looks at his freezer.
[16:42] <gonzo_> grab the double 8 bore
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[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I do not have a licence
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> probably could get one.
[16:46] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a UAV that sneaks up on a goose, grabs its wings, cuts its head off, and glides it to a predetermined location.
[16:48] <gonzo_> an H2 HAB with pyro, you could cook it on the way down too
[16:49] <daveake> What's good for the goose is good for the habber
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> for increased capture range, could use reentry heating for cooking
[16:50] <gonzo_> groan
[16:51] <gonzo_> with the tendency for habs to get caught in foliage, a bird in the hab is worth two in the bush
[16:56] <daveake> hah
[16:56] <daveake> Thought you'd do the "wild goose chase" one :)
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[16:57] <gonzo_> I was trying all sorts of pun ideas, but this one had me stuffed
[16:58] <gonzo_> (as a pun subject, it's a real basted)
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[18:29] Nick change: kaktus__ -> kaktus
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[18:33] <jcoxon> Evening
[18:33] <gb73d> Hiya
[18:34] navrac (navrac@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:34] <gb73d> will I haVE any chanc e of hearinfg tyhe german ballon tomoz from S England on 434mhz
[18:34] <gb73d> or will it be out of range even at max height
[18:34] <gb73d> its going up from Germany
[18:36] <jcoxon> It wil be at the extreme of your range
[18:36] <gb73d> ok so i shud try when it reaches max height ty
[18:36] <craag> If you have a good line of sight to the horizon in that direction then you might. But any sort of hill or higher ground in the way will block it.
[18:36] <gb73d> yes ic
[18:38] <jcoxon> I don't think it wil go that high
[18:38] <navrac> I'm going to try - butto be honest I'm not expecting to hear it
[18:38] <jcoxon> As its an old ballon
[18:38] <craag> The outer circle on the spacenear.us map is 1 degree elevation I think, so that should give you a guide of when you should be able to hear it.
[18:38] <m0psi> hi jcoxon, any progress on fldigi?
[18:39] <m0psi> i'm getting to the point where i need to test some radio stuff
[18:39] <jcoxon> Waiting on them to release it
[18:39] <m0psi> them?
[18:40] <jcoxon> Or ifyou persuade randomsk to compile you a version
[18:40] <m0psi> ooh, that would be great. thanks for the tip
[18:40] <jcoxon> I can't build you an image
[18:40] <m0psi> sure, can you please email me his email address?
[18:40] <gb73d> tnx fer the modelling of the baloon yes tough one
[18:41] <jcoxon> Pop on to #habhub and ask there
[18:41] <m0psi> ok, will do
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:14] <Upu> Evening Lunar
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> today I tried to expand the new code to contain the GPS functions, but that doesn't work so well, the string only contains zeroes, but when the GPS has no lock, the altitude used to be -17 and the navmode is 50 or so or 0 and not 6,
[19:17] <Upu> interesting you get that
[19:17] <Upu> you should never get a navmode of 50
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:17] <Upu> I've seen that and I'm sure there is an issue in the code you're using
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:17] <Upu> in fact I'm going to do my own this weekend
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> so the GPS function seems to be flawed
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> I checked and saw that the RX wire was ripped off actually
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> I soldered it back together and checked again
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> but that didn't change anything
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. of course that thing won't work without wiring but even after that...
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS code was taken directly from that code that worked
[19:24] <Upu> step back to when it was working
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:24] <Upu> though I'm going to redo the codethis weekend I think
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:27] <Upu> Are you tracking this weekend Lunar
[19:28] <Upu> Launch from Regensburg
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I was actually going to say that I took my Yaesu home for that
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> hope I can receive it
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[20:02] <john__> hello
[20:04] <Upu> evening john__
[20:05] <john__> i wanted to know with my ntx2 and arduino, how should i implement it to a coax cable (antenna feeder)
[20:06] <Upu> how is the NTX2 mounted ?
[20:06] <Upu> in a bread board ?
[20:07] <john__> i used the ukhas example with the 3 resistors
[20:07] <Upu> yup, is it soldered in or just in a bread board ?
[20:07] <john__> breadboard
[20:09] <Upu> ok well I wouldn't worry about a coax feeder just yet but
[20:09] <Upu> the braid just split into 2 and solder to each of the GND pins (which can also be connected to the rest of the circuits GND)
[20:10] <Upu> the RF just solder to the center of the coax
[20:11] <john__> yh im still in early stages, i just wanted to know for future reference, thanks
[20:11] <Upu> Does remind me I need to put antenna guide on the wiki
[20:16] <john__> also Upu , i wanted to know some info about the Ublox Max-6...
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[20:18] <john__> do i need a separate antenna, because i have seen some breakout assemblies with a sarantel antenna
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[20:18] <Upu> the breakouts I sell come with antennas on
[20:19] <Upu> so no you don't need additional antennas on them
[20:19] <Upu> however just watch it close to stuff like cheap chinese cameras, they can jam the GPS
[20:19] <Upu> Are you using a 5V Arduino or a 3.3V one ?
[20:20] <john__> 5V, but i have a voltage regulator
[20:21] <Upu> ok
[20:21] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[20:21] <Upu> so that will plug straight into it
[20:21] <Upu> doesn't need additional antenna or regulation
[20:21] <Upu> or level conversion circuits
[20:22] <john__> wow, it would save me alot of trouble
[20:24] <Upu> well yes :)
[20:24] <Upu> thats my shop btw
[20:25] <john__> oh that really cool, i was looking at the component: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[20:25] <john__> which i guess the other is a much improved version
[20:26] <Upu> that one is a super light 3.3V board
[20:26] <Upu> to be honest if you're just setting out get the previous one
[20:26] <Upu> it will be easier to work with
[20:26] <Upu> btw
[20:27] <Upu> if you put in coupon code UKHAS
[20:27] <Upu> at the check out
[20:27] <Upu> you get 10% off
[20:27] <Upu> sort of a thank you for finding your way here :)
[20:28] <john__> oh cheers, im a beginner at this, but ukhas has helped me so much getting started
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[20:29] <Upu> well its better if you find your way here so we can help you and ensure you're doing stuff safely
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[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hey navrac
[20:43] <Upu> evening Dan
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> upu, navrac, and eroomde, check this out: http://www.janus-rc.com/Documentation/wi125_product_brief.pdf
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[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a gps module intended for frequency synthesis output
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> up to 30MHz
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[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> howdy upu
[20:44] <Upu> max altitude 18km
[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> oh mf
[20:44] <Upu> you know the NEO-6T ?
[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> well they're just listing the cocom limits
[20:44] <Upu> http://www.u-blox.com/en/gps-modules/u-blox-6-timing-module/neo-6t.html
[20:44] <Upu> does 10Mhz
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> hopefully they use the correct AND interpretation
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> I know, but the rfm22 needs 30mhz doesn't it?
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[20:45] <Upu> sure navrac had a 5 x on a 6Mhz output from a normal MAX6
[20:46] <Dan-K2VOL> and the max6 has noisy output, I'm hoping this one doesn't require an entire external reference oscillator
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[20:46] <Upu> ok
[20:46] <Upu> I've not tested it personally
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> even they say you need to have a PLL with a crystal oscillator on the output to clean it up enough
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> (ublox)
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm just trying to find fewer part count solutions
[20:48] <Upu> fair enough
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[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> that one I linked to is crappier in about every other category than the ublox-6's unfortunately
[20:50] <Upu> MAX7's are out early next year
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> they don't offer any cleaner output from what I can tell
[20:50] <Upu> yeah
[20:51] <Upu> entirely ot but just shows you how repeatable some songs are http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRORQWV13762CDDF4C
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[20:54] <RG_LZ1DEV> 5/fq 4
[21:00] <navrac> missed the gps/pll conversation...
[21:00] <navrac> the 5x on the rfm sadly gave it a bit of an fm quality....
[21:00] <navrac> and any other frequency gave a seriously fmquality
[21:02] <navrac> to be honest a tcxo was easier and the drift was miniscule
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[21:04] <mclane> Hi, can anybody please approve our flight tomorrow? Doc ID is d392aceb2b83a5337174b1576f0c9331
[21:04] <mclane> Thanks a lot!
[21:06] <navrac> I hope its going to go high so e have a chance of hearing it over here
[21:06] <navrac> e=we
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello mclane
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> I'll try to receive you here
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:10] <mclane> Hi Lunar, I am really curious
[21:10] <mclane> if that works
[21:10] <mclane> what equipment will you use?
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, the Yaesu FT-790R and a simple whip antenna
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> like the antenna that was coming with my Stabo XR100
[21:27] <mclane> understood, I would be very astonished if that works
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> somehow I was able to pick up Apex Alpha with that off the coast of holland
[21:28] <mclane> you are located close to Osnabrück, aren't you?
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[21:32] <m0psi> hi Randomskk, are you about?
[21:33] <Randomskk> hi
[21:33] <m0psi> jcoxon suggested i ask you if you can do me a favour and compile me a DL-fldigi
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> oh I missed him
[21:33] <m0psi> for the mac
[21:33] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:33] <Randomskk> I am the person to ask
[21:33] <m0psi> the one i have crashes in less than about 4min
[21:33] <Randomskk> oh
[21:33] <Randomskk> right
[21:33] <Randomskk> hmm
[21:34] <m0psi> so, i can't run any tracking :-(
[21:34] <Randomskk> that is quite fast crashing
[21:34] <m0psi> indeed
[21:34] <Randomskk> and I think we had a fix for that in the new dl-fldigi
[21:34] <Randomskk> and I think I'm meant to compile it
[21:34] <Randomskk> so
[21:34] <Randomskk> okay
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[21:34] <m0psi> please email it to me, or a link
[21:35] <Randomskk> yea sure
[21:35] <m0psi> thanks a bunch
[21:35] <Randomskk> it'l be a release for everyone
[21:35] <Randomskk> but we need to test it a bit first
[21:35] <Randomskk> so you can help with that
[21:35] <m0psi> for sure
[21:35] <m0psi> let me know what you need, and i'll do that
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw what do you think of Richard Noble and the Thrust project?
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[21:54] <x-f> Randomskk, i can volunteer too - Snow Leopard, 32bit, crashes in a few minutes
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[22:10] <arko> afternoon
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[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[22:33] <upinthesky> Any coding helpers out there???
[22:35] <arko> specific question?
[22:36] <Upu> I don't think anyones brave enough at this time of night... :)
[22:36] <Upu> evenign arko
[22:36] <arko> evening
[22:36] <arko> cant wait to get to my lab to play with my radio trcker
[22:37] <upinthesky> :))) I'll try you, looking for some code - Arduino/GPS/Phone (Tracking) to get me started.
[22:37] <m0psi> that is the stage i'm at, upinthesky
[22:37] <Upu> Well
[22:37] <Upu> I don't think anyones going to give you some complete code
[22:38] <m0psi> got all the pieces, now sticking them together
[22:38] <Upu> however there are alot of individual examples out there, really the onus is on you to look at them, understand them and then implement your own version
[22:38] <m0psi> it's a jigsaw puzzle :-)
[22:38] <Upu> if you just grab lots of code
[22:38] <Upu> from various sources
[22:39] <Upu> and stick it all together I guarantee it won't end well
[22:39] <Upu> ask Lunar
[22:39] <upinthesky> I've managed, (with the site example) to get the RTTY sending a single message. Not looking for complete code, just a leg up to how the GPS is read, presumably NMEA, and entered into RTTY transmission
[22:39] <Upu> ok
[22:39] <Upu> better question
[22:39] <Upu> the GPS is read by serial
[22:40] <Upu> there are a number of examples in the Arduino library for serial reading
[22:40] <Upu> There is also TinyGPS which may help
[22:40] <upinthesky> ok, tinygps, looked and liked that
[22:40] <Upu> there you go then
[22:41] <Upu> so you have tinygps puting data in variables
[22:41] <Upu> and you have some code thats transmitting a string
[22:41] <Upu> so you just need to work out how to make a sting with variables in and your set
[22:41] <Upu> uff
[22:41] <Upu> no don't go PHP...
[22:42] <Upu> anyway sprintf
[22:42] <upinthesky> Arduino is new on me.. Is it a sequential code, therefore element can be code one after another or is it more complex in it's approach/
[22:45] <Upu> not sure exactly what you mean
[22:45] <Upu> but if you've not done any programming
[22:45] <Upu> it could take a bit to get it right
[22:46] <upinthesky> ...html and some php is my limit
[22:46] <Upu> well you've done some
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[22:57] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Balloon Fiesta 2013"
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 17 2012