highaltitude.log.20121110

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[02:37] <heathkid> what is the average burst altitude for a 3 ft. mylar?
[02:37] <heathkid> half filled of course...
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> African or European?
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> more seriously
[02:58] <SpeedEvil> it will double in volume at 5km or so
[02:58] <SpeedEvil> when it bursts depends on envelope strength
[03:08] <heathkid> I'm in the US
[03:16] <natrium42> SpeedEvil: carrying a coconut?
[03:25] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[03:50] <sparkgap> hey everyone, whats the general consensus on using spot devices as emergency locators?
[03:51] <sparkgap> we're putting one on our next payload
[03:51] <sparkgap> a spot 2, its currently buried in my car with the exact opposite of a clear view of the sky, and it's still pinging away with position reports every ten minutes no problem
[03:52] <SpeedEvil> they are great, if they work
[03:52] <sparkgap> how big of an if are we talking?
[03:53] <SpeedEvil> if they land upside down, no signal
[03:53] <sparkgap> ah, that's what I was worried about
[03:53] <sparkgap> but right now, its working under very nonideal conditions
[03:53] <sparkgap> its low in the car, with several layers of plastic and metal between it and sky, and it's sitting sideways
[03:53] <SpeedEvil> and the ten minutes means you have little chance of a report close to the ground
[03:54] <SpeedEvil> plus, no altitude info
[03:54] <sparkgap> well, its only for recovery
[03:54] <SpeedEvil> as a backup tracker, great
[03:54] <sparkgap> we have an APRS system, and a 900MHz zigbee link
[03:54] <SpeedEvil> and lots better than a mobile plus SMS, for example
[03:54] <sparkgap> this is (supposed to be) just insurance
[03:54] <sparkgap> is it definitely hosed if its upside down?
[03:55] <sparkgap> perhaps I should go reorient the one in my car
[03:55] <sparkgap> I also worry about the AAAs powering it after a high altitude cold soak...
[04:02] <SpeedEvil> if your payload box has a'amera in, and is insulated, it tends to stay a fair amount warmer
[04:03] <SpeedEvil> and no, not definitely, it depends on 'stuff'
[04:03] <SpeedEvil> but it's not reliable like that
[04:03] <heathkid> why not self-right itself if upside down?
[04:08] <sparkgap> not sure how to do so in a simple manner
[04:08] <sparkgap> it has a camera and it's insulated
[04:09] <heathkid> I never said it'd be easy... but it is do able
[04:10] <heathkid> servo would be easiest
[04:10] <heathkid> if enough power still exists
[04:11] <heathkid> AAA's?
[04:11] <heathkid> hadn't thought about a zigbee (or XBee link though)
[04:11] <heathkid> as a backup
[04:12] <heathkid> a CW beacon for sure though
[04:12] <heathkid> maybe
[04:12] <sparkgap> we have an AM beacon, its basically a fox with some directional antennas, but they only work for a mile and a half or so
[04:12] <sparkgap> plus the zigbee link, plus the APRS link, plus the SPOT
[04:13] <sparkgap> and the usual buzzers and lights
[04:13] <heathkid> SPOT?
[04:13] <sparkgap> one of those little persoal satellite locator things for hikers
[04:13] <heathkid> sparkgap: are you in the US?
[04:13] <sparkgap> yes, new york
[04:13] <heathkid> nice!
[04:14] <heathkid> the UK folks have great ideas and launches but I'm planning on APRS
[04:14] <heathkid> SPOT seems like an expensive part of the payload if you don't retrieve it....
[04:15] <sparkgap> yes, but the point of the SPOT is so that we definitely retrieve it :P
[04:15] <heathkid> how many launches have you already done?
[04:15] <SpeedEvil> aprs is simply illegal to use airborne in the UK
[04:15] <sparkgap> 2, with a 50% recovery rate
[04:15] <SpeedEvil> if we could have used it, it's quite possible things may have gone dofferenelt
[04:15] <heathkid> I'm still working on my first
[04:16] <heathkid> likely mylar
[04:16] <heathkid> then a 600g Kaymont
[04:16] <SpeedEvil> though what we've adopted has some advantages of its own
[04:16] <heathkid> then 1200g... etc.
[04:17] <heathkid> got my tracker/transmitter today
[04:17] <sparkgap> ah, we're going with a 1200g kaymont
[04:17] <sparkgap> I'm fortunate, I work on the same block as kaymont, I get to go bug them whenever I want haha
[04:17] <heathkid> lol
[04:17] <sparkgap> we're trying to move towards a mostly/fully solar powered payload too, so it's interesting... I think that's how we lost the last one so we redesigned the power system
[04:18] <sparkgap> payload 2 (icarus) seems to have lost power, it had an active switching system that disconnected the batteries and connected the panels in tandem when power was available
[04:18] <heathkid> what altitude are you going for?
[04:18] <sparkgap> I suspect it didn't work as planned at altitude and we lost power
[04:18] <sparkgap> 110k
[04:18] <heathkid> ah
[04:18] <sparkgap> the new system is diode mixed, so the batteries are always there if the panels crap out
[04:19] <heathkid> what kind of batteries are you using?
[04:19] <sparkgap> 3.7V lithium polymer
[04:19] <heathkid> I want to test Li-Poly instead of straigt lithium
[04:19] <heathkid> nice
[04:20] <sparkgap> boosted to 5V for a few things, but otherwise regulated down to 3.3V for the main system
[04:20] <sparkgap> though even that has a boost mode available if it comes down to it
[04:20] <heathkid> yep... same here
[04:20] <sparkgap> we should have ample power
[04:20] <heathkid> switching buck-boost?
[04:21] <sparkgap> yes
[04:21] <sparkgap> based around LT1300 linear ICs
[04:21] <heathkid> sounds like we're pretty much on the same page
[04:21] <sparkgap> I've had a lot of good luck with them on other projects, reasonably beefy
[04:22] <sparkgap> plus a little microchip charge controller IC to recharge the batteries if the panels are generating surplus power
[04:22] <heathkid> except I haven't done a launch yet.... :P
[04:22] <sparkgap> well, our last solar launch failed, so... :P
[04:23] <heathkid> ever done a mylar launch?
[04:23] <heathkid> or just the kaymonts?
[04:23] <sparkgap> kaymonts
[04:24] <heathkid> I came up with an idea tonight that might work (probably not so I'd prefer NOT to be the first to try it....)
[04:24] <sparkgap> oh?
[04:24] <heathkid> use a needle and poke a tiny hole in the mylar balloon and cover it with tape.... pressure builds up... tape gives way and releases some gas
[04:25] <sparkgap> I would expect the balloon would tear apart at the pinhole site
[04:25] <heathkid> poor man's pressure valve! :)
[04:25] <heathkid> maybe
[04:25] <sparkgap> it'll definitely relieve some pressure thought :)
[04:26] <heathkid> but won't know until it's tried... true?
[04:27] <sparkgap> I suppose=
[04:27] <heathkid> I don't want to lose my payload...
[04:27] <heathkid> even on my first launch
[04:28] <sparkgap> I wouldn't try it on the first launch personally
[04:29] <heathkid> so.... for first launch do I go a couple 3 ft. mylars or a 600g kaymont?
[04:29] <heathkid> payload will be <1kg
[04:29] <heathkid> much less
[04:29] <sparkgap> probably the kaymont, but I'm biased :P
[04:29] <heathkid> :)
[04:30] <heathkid> any restrictions I don't know about as long as it's under 4 lbs.?
[04:31] <heathkid> this is what I'll be using for my first launch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261114591451
[04:31] <heathkid> for GPS/APRS
[04:31] Nick change: UpuDaves -> daveake
[04:32] <heathkid> 4AA batts and a j-pole hanging down
[04:32] <natrium42> whoa upu and daveake is the same person!
[04:32] <natrium42> it all makes sense now
[04:32] <daveake> lol
[04:33] <heathkid> hey daveake... awesome job today!
[04:33] <daveake> He was mission controller here at my home yesterday
[04:33] <daveake> cheers. was a really good flight
[04:33] <daveake> I'm too tired to sleep tho
[04:33] <heathkid> I really enjoyed watching it live
[04:33] <heathkid> tracking... updates on here... etc.
[04:33] <heathkid> VERY exciting!
[04:34] <heathkid> *awesome* photos too!!!
[04:34] <daveake> Both Upu (not me) and I like to do the live video stream to help keep people feeling involved
[04:34] <daveake> And the "live" images of course help a lot
[04:34] <heathkid> success! I felt involved although I'm in Indiana, USA...
[04:34] <heathkid> and had FUN!
[04:35] <daveake> It was for a TV show (to teach young kids how to program). So we had lots of "that was great, but can we do it again please?"
[04:35] <daveake> And that happened 5 times for the burst !!!
[04:35] <heathkid> of course my involvement was.... oh this is so awesome!
[04:35] <daveake> So Upu had to pretend te balloon had just that moment burst, 5 times
[04:36] <heathkid> use more balloons next time...
[04:36] <natrium42> lol
[04:36] <heathkid> :P
[04:36] <heathkid> exceeding the speed limit just a bit while chasing? lol
[04:37] <daveake> Nearly lost the balloon ... with the TV stuff going on, I put the balloon neck too far down on the filler. It was a small (800g) balloon and they have a short neck.
[04:37] <heathkid> someone's going to have to teach me about that....
[04:37] <daveake> So there was too little neck left to put the cable tie on to
[04:37] <heathkid> balloon necks and fillers.... etc.
[04:37] <daveake> So I stretched the neck up so Upu could tie it closed
[04:37] <daveake> and the balloon came right off the filler tube in my hand!
[04:38] <natrium42> lol
[04:38] <daveake> So there I was, with a fully inflated balloon, open neck, gripped by one hand only
[04:38] <natrium42> happened to us too once
[04:38] <natrium42> the filler tube disintegrated
[04:38] <natrium42> but dad managed to catch the balloon
[04:38] <daveake> I got Upu there sharpish to rescue me :)
[04:38] <daveake> hah
[04:38] <heathkid> daveake: any pics of the landing site?
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[04:38] <daveake> I told the TV lot not to record/broadcast that little bit :)
[04:39] <daveake> Not sure. I didn't take any. It was quite dark.
[04:39] <daveake> The TV guy did record but I won't see that for ages
[04:39] <heathkid> so much fun!
[04:40] <daveake> It was in a field, next to a house. We knocked for permission but no answer
[04:40] <heathkid> made my day...
[04:40] <daveake> cool :)
[04:40] <daveake> Lter today I'll get all the images from the Pi SD card
[04:40] <heathkid> first time I've watched the tracking from launch to recovery...
[04:40] <daveake> It will have maybe 10 times the number transmitted
[04:40] <daveake> :)
[04:40] <heathkid> nice!
[04:41] <daveake> I must say, when I started the hobby I was just interested in A getting photos back, and B making/coding a tracker
[04:41] <heathkid> I look forward to those images
[04:41] <heathkid> I must be years behind you
[04:41] <daveake> But actually the whole launch day is fun. The launch side is a little bit stressful but the chase is great
[04:42] <heathkid> how close did the predictor actually get?
[04:42] <daveake> Oh, very close
[04:42] <heathkid> looked pretty close
[04:42] <daveake> I've not checked the map, but within 5 miles I think
[04:43] <heathkid> wow
[04:43] <daveake> The balloon burst on cue
[04:43] <daveake> and that's the main variable
[04:43] <heathkid> I don't want mine to burst though
[04:43] <daveake> Ascent rate overall I think was on target, though it was a bit slow early on
[04:43] <daveake> Descent rate was right on target
[04:43] <heathkid> but they hit pretty hard...
[04:44] <heathkid> about 5 m/s... but at about 40k/h?
[04:44] <daveake> The launch itself was interesting ... very windy and the line was almost horizontal. The Pi payload hit the ground a few times (lightly) as I was waiting
[04:44] <heathkid> that's not a light touchdown
[04:44] <daveake> 5m/s iis an average landing speed
[04:45] <daveake> It's what I aim for usually
[04:45] <heathkid> at 40k/h?
[04:45] <daveake> This time it was a little lower as the calculated chute size was between the 2 nearest sizes I had
[04:45] <heathkid> ah
[04:45] <daveake> So I went for the larger size
[04:45] <sparkgap> daveake, it sounds you were afflicted with the same desire to roll your own system even though they're a lot of well proofed affordable solutions to your problems that my friends and I have :P
[04:46] <daveake> go on
[04:46] <sparkgap> we're designing our own transmitter modules, power systems, etc, and kind of forcing ourselves to learn things and determine things we could just look up, but for us thats the fine
[04:47] <sparkgap> its an engineering design challenge for us
[04:47] <sparkgap> and since its not a job where we need to deliver a cheap timely solution, it doesn't much matter
[04:47] <sparkgap> and on top of that, launch days are always a blast
[04:48] <sparkgap> so are the crazy weekends assembling our respective components in to a payload, all piled in to one guys place drinking beers, snacking and building
[04:51] <daveake> It is of course a hobby not a job, and the more you do yourself the greater the reward when you succeed. There is no such thing as a "well proofed affordable solution" here (this is the UK - you *have* to make your own tracker to gain the many advantages of being part of our distributed radio network.
[04:52] <daveake> And being a hobby it's not a "problem" it's a challenge
[04:52] <sparkgap> ah, over here in the states groups like sparkfun are putting together more and more kit like solutions
[04:52] <sparkgap> but, we're avoiding those
[04:52] <sparkgap> I agree its much more rewarding to do it yourself
[04:52] <daveake> Quite. Doesn't happen here. And anyone who makes a tracker won't give/sell you the design or code. Not completely anyway.
[04:53] <sparkgap> if I was going to buy kits and just add batteries and helium, I might as well just download everyone elses photo and sensor data and call it a day
[04:53] <daveake> Well quite
[04:53] <sparkgap> we're actually hoping to make our system components available as well, through the sparkfun-esque channels
[04:54] <daveake> The whole point is to have your own "space program". Especially for old farts like me who were brought up in the "space age" and were too young to be in NASA :)
[04:54] <daveake> This TV program is for kids. The TV guys brought 2 for the filming. Both 9, which happens to be how old I was when "we" landed on the moon
[04:55] <sparkgap> ah, I'm a fairly young engineer here, but I've always loved the idea of space flight, I grew up absorbing every piece of information I could get on the Apollo program and it remains one of my favorite topics of all time
[04:55] <sparkgap> I think it's one of the USes greatest engineering endeavours of all time, and I feel like by making our own system, we're kind of reliving just some small part of it
[04:55] <daveake> Indeed
[04:55] <sparkgap> since my generation never had (and I fear never will have) a program of similar magnitude
[04:56] <daveake> And HAB is something you can do in a small team, or on your own. Almost all of the HAB flights in the UK are done by individuals
[04:56] <daveake> No. Sad. Apollo was an amazing challenge and it was equally amazing that it was successful
[04:57] <daveake> Then we all assumed that there'd be moon bases and people on Mars by now
[04:57] <sparkgap> we had the capability, but we decided a new football stadium was a higher priority
[04:57] <sparkgap> I have to say, this topic can get me pretty bitter, pretty quickly :P
[04:57] <daveake> :)
[04:57] <daveake> Well ...
[04:57] <daveake> ... I need to go sleep again :-)
[04:57] <sparkgap> haha
[04:57] <sparkgap> catch you later
[04:58] <daveake> seeya
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[04:58] <sparkgap> heathkid, are you doing this whole thing yourself?
[04:58] <sparkgap> daveake was right, it can be done by individuals, but I think it's easier, and immensely more fun, if you get a little group
[04:58] <heathkid> sparkgap: I'm trying...
[04:58] <sparkgap> no friends to rope in to it?
[04:59] <heathkid> maybe one or two...
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[04:59] <heathkid> what do you think of the tracker/aprs thingy in the link?
[04:59] <heathkid> just add batts and antenna and a balloon...
[05:00] <heathkid> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261114591451
[05:00] <heathkid> it's very tiny
[05:01] <sparkgap> I've seen this thing around
[05:01] <heathkid> 300mW TX APRS
[05:01] <sparkgap> it looks cool, but I'm not sure how proven it is
[05:01] <heathkid> I know
[05:01] <sparkgap> for our APRS system we're using tried and true MicroTrak stuff
[05:01] <heathkid> which one?
[05:01] <sparkgap> the APRS system and SPOT are our robust things, the rest is stuff we're experimenting with
[05:01] <sparkgap> the RTG
[05:02] <sparkgap> eventually I'm designing a more streamlined integrated transceiver unit that will support APRS and some uplink stuff
[05:02] <sparkgap> do you have a radar reflector?
[05:02] <heathkid> that's why I bought a few Baufeng dual-band radios....
[05:03] <heathkid> do I need one?
[05:03] <sparkgap> I don't recall if it's required, but it is definitely recommended
[05:03] <heathkid> I planned to wrap the payload in mylar
[05:03] <heathkid> notify my local airport of the launch
[05:04] <heathkid> no NOTAM required for a mylar launch... right?
[05:05] <heathkid> would do one for a 600g kaymont though...
[05:05] <heathkid> or 1200g
[05:05] <heathkid> but not ready for that yet
[05:05] <sparkgap> I'm not too familiar with that stuff to say for sure, we're kaymont fanboys here
[05:06] <heathkid> do you always do the NOTAM stuff?
[05:06] <sparkgap> yep
[05:06] <sparkgap> one of our crew is a pliot, he is a stickler for that sort of thing
[05:06] <sparkgap> pilot*
[05:07] <heathkid> is there a guide anywhere for amateur balloons in the US?
[05:07] <heathkid> the UK stuff doesn't count...
[05:07] <sparkgap> um... google :)
[05:07] <sparkgap> there are a lot of blogs
[05:07] <sparkgap> with a lot of successes and a lot of failures, the failures are great reads because they cover a lot of comon pitfalls
[05:08] <heathkid> hmmm.....
[05:08] <sparkgap> beyond62.com seems fairly interesting, skimming that now, he's fairly new to this and has a pretty interesting story for his first launch :)
[05:08] <heathkid> I'm setting myself up for a major failure and lose a couple hundred $ in payload....
[05:08] <sparkgap> http://jhabproject.com/ is another interesting one
[05:14] <heathkid> if I could do this: http://www.beyond62.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_0749.png
[05:14] <heathkid> it's be a dream come true!
[05:14] <sparkgap> well the one thing I can say, take small steps!
[05:15] <sparkgap> thats how we lost icarus, we bit off way too much and got in over our heads
[05:16] <heathkid> how about a couple hundred gram payload and a 3 ft. mylar balloon for a first attempt?
[05:16] <sparkgap> with a reliable APRS tracker? I'd say you have pretty good odds
[05:16] <heathkid> I know I'm not going to get 100k+ ft.... but it's a start
[05:16] <heathkid> cool
[05:16] <heathkid> that's how I'll start
[05:16] <heathkid> kaymonts next...
[05:16] <sparkgap> as long as it pops when it should....
[05:17] <heathkid> which is when exactly? :)
[05:17] <sparkgap> oh, and make sure to put contact information on it!
[05:17] <heathkid> planned on it
[05:17] <sparkgap> there are resources online for calculating burst altitudes
[05:17] <heathkid> for mylars?
[05:17] <sparkgap> ....I think so :)
[05:18] <sparkgap> I don't know, I'm a latex balloon guy
[05:18] <heathkid> so should I go with the kaymont 600g for my "first" launch?
[05:18] <sparkgap> maybe for that reason alone, go with the kaymont, there's a lot more information available in seems
[05:18] <sparkgap> start easy, if you succeed with an easier project, you'll be itching to try something a little harder
[05:18] <sparkgap> if you go harder and blow it, you're just gonna be annoyed
[05:19] <heathkid> a little harder? lol
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[05:19] <heathkid> end goal is ONE complete orbit and land (via UAV) within 50 ft. of launch....
[05:21] <sparkgap> haha
[05:21] <heathkid> not asking for much am I? :P
[05:21] <sparkgap> well, they landed on the moon with a computer that wasn't a tenth as powerful as your calculator
[05:21] <sparkgap> so...
[05:21] <heathkid> I can dream....
[05:21] <sparkgap> and you better damn well do it
[05:22] <sparkgap> that's the problem, nobody dreams anymore...
[05:22] <heathkid> I plan to
[05:22] <sparkgap> I'd go with the kaymont, and I think you have good odds
[05:22] <heathkid> I just want a first launch with some pretty pictures...
[05:22] <heathkid> and retrieve the payload
[05:23] <heathkid> a 600g kaymont may do it...
[05:23] <heathkid> it'll go up fast... burst and come down where I expect it to (or close enough)
[05:23] <heathkid> a mylar... who knows...
[05:23] <heathkid> it may float for a long time
[05:24] <heathkid> last thing I want is a stupid 3 ft. mylar balloon landing in the Atlantic
[05:24] <sparkgap> haha yeah, that would be frustrating
[05:24] <sparkgap> where are you launching from?
[05:25] <heathkid> Indiana
[05:25] <sparkgap> well, if you make it to the atlantic, that's almost a totally different kind of success :P
[05:28] <daveake> Can't sleep :(
[05:28] <daveake> Good luck with a UAV
[05:29] <daveake> or with an orbit
[05:29] <daveake> Both .... well, let me know when you try that :D
[05:29] <daveake> Slightly alarming angle to the balloon yesterday - http://i.imgur.com/MljBY.jpg
[05:30] <sparkgap> wow, nasty overcast too
[05:31] <daveake> overcast was fine ... got some nice shots of the clouds being lit from above by a low sun
[05:32] <sparkgap> that sounds cool
[05:32] <daveake> Was about to abort the launch and use a 2-line technique, then the wind stopped and the balloon hovered right above me
[05:32] <daveake> So turned from the trickiest launch I'd done, to the easiest
[05:33] <sparkgap> 2-line technique?
[05:36] <daveake> You put a small metal ring just below the balloon, and you thread a cord through it. You hold both ends of the cord and you slowly let out one end.
[05:36] <daveake> So the balloon starts to rise and you're holding it against the wind with that cord
[05:36] <daveake> Meanwhile as the balloon goes up it starts to lift the payloads off the ground
[05:37] <sparkgap> oh, cool
[05:37] <daveake> The payload is line is vertical as it's not being used to hold the balloon
[05:37] <daveake> So you let it out slowly till the balloon has lifted all the payloads
[05:37] <daveake> Then you just let go of one end of the cors
[05:37] <daveake> cord
[05:37] <daveake> The cord then flies through the ring as the balloon ascends
[05:38] <daveake> leaving the cord behind
[05:38] <daveake> Never needed to do it yet
[05:38] <sparkgap> neat trick
[05:38] <sparkgap> that windy eh?
[05:38] <daveake> You saw that photo, right?
[05:38] <daveake> No way could I launch in that otherwise
[05:40] <sparkgap> yes, it does look rather treacherous
[05:40] <daveake> We could have launched earlier but the batteries in the TV camera died
[05:41] <sparkgap> haha
[05:41] <sparkgap> my alma mater has asked us to do a launch during alumni weekend, we're hoping to have the solar payload fully debugged by then, and then we'll use the spare parts to build another and launch them tandem at the event
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[07:24] <Upu> sparkgap the guy who makes that comes on here
[07:39] <daveake> morning
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[07:49] <Upu> morning daveake
[07:49] <Upu> how you feeling ? :)
[07:49] <daveake> fecked
[07:49] <Upu> lol not surprised
[07:49] <Upu> long day
[07:50] <daveake> plus the prep before
[07:50] <Upu> yep
[07:50] <daveake> I'll grab all the images from the SD card later
[07:50] <Upu> how long will it take you to get your office back to its normal state of disarray ? :)
[07:50] <Upu> ok
[07:50] <daveake> lol
[07:50] <daveake> some time :(
[07:51] <daveake> Did I tell you why the Pi stopped after landing?
[07:52] <Upu> yeah power came of ?
[07:52] <daveake> yup
[07:52] <daveake> Batteries only taped down, like everything else, to allow the kids to insert stuff before launch
[07:53] <daveake> For next time I'll make something to hold everything in place
[07:53] <Upu> camera men said you were teaching the kids some new swear words ? :)
[07:54] <daveake> lol
[07:54] <daveake> Not used to having kids around :)
[07:55] <Upu> they were having a laugh about it anyway
[07:55] <daveake> :)
[07:56] <daveake> The 2 kids couldn't have been more different
[07:56] <Upu> no
[07:56] <Upu> what was Harry like the morning ?
[07:56] <daveake> Harry was asked why he was interested in being there
[07:57] <daveake> <long pause> "Weellll" <long pause> "at school i never get picked for anything"
[07:57] <daveake> Not f*ing surprised
[07:57] <Upu> theres a reason for that Harry :)
[07:57] <daveake> That was clear :)
[07:58] <daveake> The girl though was a natural
[07:58] <Upu> I think Lotte took after her mum, she was overly enthusiastic about everything
[07:58] <daveake> Yep
[07:58] <Upu> everything was "amazing"
[07:58] <daveake> Julie said that
[07:58] <daveake> Whe was asked to say (for camera) what she thought of the Pi
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[07:59] <daveake> And she went on for ages, saying "amazing" several times
[07:59] <Upu> lol
[07:59] <daveake> But she was good - said there were things like USB she recognized and things she didn't
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[07:59] <daveake> then she was asked to repeat (different camera angle or cat meowing or something) and she said it all again
[08:00] <daveake> didn't miss anything or skip a beat
[08:00] <Upu> yep
[08:00] <Upu> same in the afternoon
[08:00] <daveake> totally unphased by cameras etc
[08:00] <Upu> she came up and said thanks and bye at the end
[08:00] <Upu> didn't see Harry
[08:00] <daveake> :)
[08:01] <daveake> He probably got buried by the cameramen
[08:01] <Upu> but yes an interesting day
[08:01] <Upu> not sure launching with camera people is a good idea
[08:01] <daveake> nope
[08:01] <Upu> lol at the battery going flat just as the wind was right
[08:01] <daveake> I know !!
[08:02] <daveake> and LOL at "Can we do the burst again please?"
[08:02] <Darkside> lolwat
[08:02] <Upu> yeah I had to screen shot spacenear.us
[08:02] <Upu> and put it on full screen and pretend (5 times) the balloon had just burst
[08:02] <daveake> nice work
[08:02] <Darkside> well i can beat you all
[08:03] <Darkside> we faked an entire launch
[08:03] <daveake> lol
[08:03] <Upu> lol
[08:03] <Darkside> with excited gesturing towards th enonexistent balloon and all
[08:03] <Darkside> we even mocked up a landing
[08:03] <daveake> did that include a fake UK altitude record too? ;)
[08:04] <Darkside> lol
[08:04] <Darkside> no
[08:04] <daveake> just kidding :)
[08:04] <Darkside> >_>
[08:08] <daveake> Upu I liked that pic of Roxy (fat/furry cat) on the desk in mission control
[08:08] <daveake> Put it on FB and a friend said "Where's Major Tom?" ... clever (Tom ... tom cat)
[08:08] <daveake> Specially clever as he;s from Yorkshire :)
[08:08] <Upu> heh
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[08:25] <KF7FER> Upu: got your package in 8 days. Much quicker than I expected. And the MAX-6 is TINY... but I do have to ask - how do you keep the antenna cover on the SL1202?
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[08:35] <Darkside> KF7FER: superglue
[08:35] <KF7FER> uh... really? That simple?
[08:36] <KF7FER> can I leave it off? it's 0.9g
[08:41] <Darkside> better not
[08:42] <Darkside> static kills gpses
[08:43] <KF7FER> Fair enough. So in a perfect world the antenna should be at the edge of the enclosure, or does it really matter? And any comments on this sort of antenna for a generic tracker (for non-HAB use)?
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[08:56] <Upu> I just put a blob of hot glue in and push on
[08:56] <KF7FER> Upu: thanks. I guess I over-complicate things. I thought more would be required
[08:57] <Upu> just one small blob the inside lip of the radome, not all round or it seals and you can't get it on
[08:57] <KF7FER> Ok. more is less then
[08:59] <KF7FER> regarding the MAX-6... I'd like to build a board that has a chip antenna but also has a UF.L connector for an external antenna. Is this something easily done, or should I simply stick with one or the other?
[08:59] <Upu> yeah you can
[08:59] <Darkside> you won't be able to have both the chip antenna and u.fl connector
[08:59] <Darkside> not at the same time anyway
[08:59] <Upu> you just need to put a cap between the passive antenna and the active part
[08:59] <Upu> to filter the DC off to the passive antenna
[08:59] <Darkside> Upu: you get impedance mismatches if you have both
[09:00] <Upu> ok
[09:00] <KF7FER> well that kills that dream... thanks for the info.
[09:00] <KF7FER> but that must be ok for a ceramic antenna... I've seen some GPSes that have both
[09:01] <KF7FER> the one that Adafruit sells that's supposed to be HAB friendly comes to mind
[09:01] <KF7FER> MKT33339 or something?
[09:02] <KF7FER> I was simply hoping to use one OR the other... perhaps I could put both on the PCB and only populate the UF.L or add the chip antenna?
[09:03] <Darkside> yup
[09:03] <Darkside> that'd work fine
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[09:06] <KF7FER> Darkside: So could I do something like https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/antennas.jpg? Is that ok?
[09:07] <Darkside> if put the socket on the microstrip if you can
[09:07] <Upu> adafruit isn't hab friendly yet
[09:07] <Upu> tops at 27km
[09:07] <Upu> I have a test module here that does 40km
[09:08] <KF7FER> Darkside: not to be stupid, but you're saying that I need to move it in-line with the chip antenna?
[09:09] <Upu> right afk
[09:09] <KF7FER> Upu: and I wondered. I heard you were involved in testing
[09:14] <KF7FER> Darkside: Needs to be cleaned up a bit, but you're talkinng about https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/combined.jpg correct?
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[10:01] <daveake> After landing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDiDdjI8zg&feature=youtube_gdata
[10:02] <number10> thats good
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[10:03] <daveake> Yes I like that :)
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[10:19] <daveake> Pie webcam images from yesterday - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157631973090080/
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[10:21] <SpeedEvil> nice
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> I thought the battery fell off
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[10:21] <daveake> No, it was still taking photos after it landed
[10:22] <daveake> The battery wire fell off when I manhandled it after opening the case :)
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> ah!
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[10:22] <daveake> I /assumed/ it was already loose, because number10 wasn't picking up images from it
[10:22] <daveake> But it was on its side so the radiation pattern may have stopped him receiving
[10:22] <daveake> dunno yet
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[10:24] <number10> I had the better antenna on buzz, and just a 1/4 wave on a lower pole for Pi - didnt swap them over to see if Pi was still tx
[10:25] <daveake> ah ok
[10:25] <daveake> well the images from the ground are ncie to show it's actually on the ground, but we knew from the altitude anyway :)
[10:26] <daveake> Wehn we arrived at the field, the car pc GPS and Buzz both read 85m
[10:26] <daveake> Julie's photos from the day - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157631972333763/
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> what's the gong?
[10:28] <daveake> reflector
[10:28] <daveake> ?
[10:28] <daveake> which image?
[10:28] <daveake> Upu's downsized his HAB activities - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8171497527/in/set-72157631972333763
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> the first one
[10:29] <daveake> yeah, they shoved lights and relfectors into my office
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[10:29] <daveake> blimey my typing is siht this morning
[10:31] <daveake> Launch video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CPRcW4IwS0&feature=youtu.be
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[10:41] <daveake> right, afk shopping
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[15:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> hwy
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[17:12] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nVvRwrgsGU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> misheard lyrics
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[17:24] Nick change: sparkgap263 -> sparkgap
[17:24] <sparkgap> so, has anyone had any problems with cutdown devices damaging chutes?
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[17:27] <eroomde> nope
[17:28] <sparkgap> we were worried about it falling down on the chute and incinerating it... or burning a hole through it
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[17:29] <eroomde> what kind of cutdown?
[17:30] <sparkgap> nichrome wire, relay, battery
[17:32] <eroomde> you can presumably design it such that the wire doesn;t ever make contact with the chute
[17:33] <sparkgap> yeah, that's the plan, I'm just worried I'm going to make a common mistake and its going to make contact, so I'm looking to see what some of those mistakes might be to avoid them :P
[17:33] <eroomde> i don;t recall ever seeing or hearing of that happening
[17:33] <eroomde> http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/hf-aprs_mechanical.html
[17:34] <eroomde> the pic there shows one solution to keeping stuff from other stuff
[17:34] <eroomde> if you'll excuse my vagueness
[17:34] <sparkgap> haha
[17:34] <sparkgap> I'll take a look
[17:35] <RG_LZ1DEV> you can always encase it in a tiny box
[17:36] <sparkgap> then I'd be worried about the box getting caught in the chute.....
[17:36] Action: sparkgap is really paranoid
[17:36] <sparkgap> really, really paranoid
[17:36] <sparkgap> and I realize it's entirely unfounded, I just need to convince myself of that
[17:36] <sparkgap> the box is probably what we'll do
[17:37] <RG_LZ1DEV> sparkgap: SMALL box :)
[17:37] <sparkgap> haha
[17:37] <sparkgap> I was thinking a pelican case ;)
[17:37] <eroomde> paranoia is a useful instinct :)
[17:38] <sparkgap> until it becomes paralyzing
[17:38] <eroomde> provided it senses the right things
[17:38] <eroomde> yes
[17:38] <eroomde> peli cases are nice
[17:38] <eroomde> perhaps a bit heavy for uk hab tastes
[17:38] <eroomde> but they make a lot of sense
[17:39] <RG_LZ1DEV> one of our flight, exprienced chute detachement on burst
[17:39] <RG_LZ1DEV> suprisingly enough, wasnt damaged from the fall :)
[17:39] <sparkgap> personally I'd rather use a cutdown device near the payload, and attach the chute to a different anchor point, but I'm not sure how tangle prone that is
[17:39] <sparkgap> RG_LZ1DEV, really? what do you predict the impact velocity was?
[17:39] <RG_LZ1DEV> never really borthered to check, as it wasn't mine :)
[17:40] <RG_LZ1DEV> but it did bounce off nicely from the ground
[17:40] <RG_LZ1DEV> well, side of a hill
[17:40] <sparkgap> ha, I think if I saw my payload do that I'd have a heart attack
[17:41] <m0psi> what's a pelican case?
[17:41] <m0psi> is it that one in the photo eroomde showed?
[17:41] <eroomde> yeah
[17:42] <eroomde> they're very tough handles cases
[17:42] <eroomde> come in all sorts of flavours
[17:42] <m0psi> what aboute temp insulation?
[17:42] <eroomde> usually to hold expensive things with custom foam inserts
[17:42] <eroomde> they're probably good enough
[17:42] <eroomde> i still dont think temp is much of an issue
[17:42] <m0psi> y, they do look good for sure
[17:43] <eroomde> componentns are rated to about -40, and they're dissipating some mW inside a sealed box
[17:43] <m0psi> i guess, one could insulate with foam inside anyway
[17:43] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[17:43] <m0psi> but i think the self-heating is under-rated, if you'll excuse the expression
[17:44] <m0psi> i still don't understand why wire-wound resistor on-board heaters are not used much in hab
[17:44] <sparkgap> we're considering a heater controlled by the flight computer under the assumptions that the temperature is below a threshold and the solar panels are producing plenty of power
[17:45] <m0psi> i would have thought a seperate battery with a resistor on it would do wonders keeping things toasty
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> sparkgap: too answer your question
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> You have: 592meter/30sec
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> You want: km/hr
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> * 71.04
[17:45] <sparkgap> oooh
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> ouch*
[17:45] <RG_LZ1DEV> ftfy
[17:45] <sparkgap> haha
[17:45] <sparkgap> indeed
[17:45] <sparkgap> 44 mph (I'm a US nerd)
[17:45] <sparkgap> ouch indeed
[17:46] <m0psi> interestingly sparkgap, we use mph in the uk for speed
[17:46] <RG_LZ1DEV> they had a layer of fibercloth on
[17:46] <sparkgap> I did not know that
[17:46] <m0psi> ft for height
[17:46] <RG_LZ1DEV> so it was pretty durrable
[17:46] <m0psi> m and cm for length
[17:47] <m0psi> and Celcius for temp
[17:47] <m0psi> go figure
[17:47] <sparkgap> personally I prefer metric, but I don't have the same intuitive grasp as I do for imperial units
[17:47] <sparkgap> math wise though, way easier
[17:47] <sparkgap> whoever came up with 5280 ft to a mile, 12 inches to a foot needs to be slapped :P
[17:47] <m0psi> at least a dozen times!
[17:48] <sparkgap> no
[17:48] <sparkgap> at least ten times
[17:48] <sparkgap> or 100
[17:48] <sparkgap> no 12s :P
[17:48] <RG_LZ1DEV> what about weight in stones
[17:48] <RG_LZ1DEV> :)
[17:48] <sparkgap> how about one slug per slug of mass?
[17:48] <RG_LZ1DEV> sounds good
[17:49] <sparkgap> I think that's the nerdiest conversation I've had in weeks, excellent
[17:49] <RG_LZ1DEV> i perfer to measure weight in earths
[17:49] <sparkgap> haha
[17:49] <sparkgap> my friend measures time in jovian seconds
[17:49] <sparkgap> he's the only person that can get away with "this'll only take a second" and not be lying
[17:50] <x-f> i lol'd :)
[17:53] <m0psi> anyone know what the sockets on the arduino is called that these plug into http://tinyurl.com/b57p69e ?
[17:53] <sparkgap> female headers
[17:53] <m0psi> i want to buy some but don't know the proper name
[17:53] <mfa298> we have a pub quiz where one of the favourite questions is "what's the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight"
[17:53] <m0psi> ta
[17:53] <sparkgap> mfa298, I would love to visit that pub
[17:53] <sparkgap> 0.1" pitch, just like the pins
[17:54] <RG_LZ1DEV> no computers allowed?
[17:54] <mfa298> internet, computers etc wern't allowed. We did manage to work it from from m/s once although I can't remember the exact route we took
[17:55] <RG_LZ1DEV> You have: c
[17:55] <RG_LZ1DEV> You want: furlongs/fortnight
[17:55] <RG_LZ1DEV> * 1.8026175e+12
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[17:59] <number10> m0psi: http://proto-pic.co.uk/arduino-stackable-header-kit/
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[17:59] <m0psi> thanks number10
[18:00] <m0psi> good to meet you btw
[18:01] <number10> and you - I dont use arduino but that looks like the thing you need
[18:01] <m0psi> regarding the ntx2, it has a bare back on the metal can. is it necessary to 'close' it off in terms of RF, or is ok bare?
[18:02] <m0psi> y, the very thing number10
[18:02] <m0psi> i'm referring to the package that upu sells
[18:03] <m0psi> radiomatrix ntx2
[18:03] <number10> it will be fine as is - you can mount the open end away from the digital
[18:03] <m0psi> ok
[18:07] <eroomde> some people do close it over, i.e. putting a 90 degree bend in the legs. but it's not necessary
[18:07] <eroomde> just is a bit less vertical height if that's a consideration
[18:08] <m0psi> y, i figured i can do that, against a veroboard, should give enough of a shield at 75cm wavelength
[18:09] <eroomde> indeed
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[18:33] <sparkgap> does anyone have recommendations for a self contained FM module for the US 2m band? preferably something with a TX enable, audio in, and some kind of frequency selection
[18:33] <sparkgap> I'm sick of gutting ebay HTs
[18:35] <m0psi> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=69
[18:35] <m0psi> will that work sparkgap?
[18:36] <sparkgap> it just might, though I'd prefer not having fixed frequency, that might be something I have to concede
[18:36] <sparkgap> I also need a little linear amp to feed that in to so I can get some more RF magic flowing out of the antenna
[18:38] <eroomde> bleeding americans
[18:38] <eroomde> with their enlightened tx power laws
[18:39] <sparkgap> haha
[18:39] <sparkgap> we're just too stupid to use finesse, so we use brute force ;)
[18:39] <sparkgap> "signal not making it? forget tuning the thing, just crank up the power"
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[18:42] <sparkgap> nah, I was thinking more like 2W, just a little extra oomph
[18:43] <eroomde> golly
[18:44] <sparkgap> oh come on, most people over here use 10W :)
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[18:47] Action: eroomde is just jealous
[18:47] <eroomde> could get megabit downlinks with 10W
[18:47] <eroomde> megabits plural
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[18:50] <sparkgap> that's the eventual plan, for now I just want to know my APRS link is going to work
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[18:50] <eroomde> :)
[18:50] <eroomde> well good luck
[18:50] <sparkgap> thanks
[18:50] <eroomde> you have experience of surgery on ebay handhelds though?
[18:51] <sparkgap> mostly burying them :)
[18:51] <sparkgap> but yes
[18:51] <eroomde> :)
[18:51] <eroomde> i wanted to cut one up to make a simple uplink
[18:51] <eroomde> as i need an uplink for something soon, and don;t really want to go mad on development weffort
[18:52] <eroomde> VHF and DTMF was my plan
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[18:52] <sparkgap> that works
[18:52] <sparkgap> AX.25 is pretty easy to modulate though, its really just two tones
[18:53] <eroomde> yeah
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[19:09] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: do you know any uk sources of linear actuators?
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> im after something small and fast
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> with <10N holding force
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> but i need >50mm/s
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> how much line
[19:10] <Laurenceb__> line?
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> throw
[19:10] <Laurenceb__> oh
[19:10] <Laurenceb__> ~30mm
[19:10] Action: SpeedEvil is not awake.
[19:10] <Laurenceb__> atm my best find is Firgelli L12
[19:11] <Laurenceb__> if i overvolt it i might get 42mm/s
[19:11] <eroomde> no idea i'm afriad
[19:11] <Laurenceb__> but still not fast enough
[19:11] <eroomde> we built our own for the rocket
[19:12] <Laurenceb__> ah
[19:13] <Laurenceb__> i want hardware running by end of next week :S
[19:14] <Laurenceb__> i was contemplating hacking something together with rc servo(s)
[19:14] <Laurenceb__> but thatd be very goofy
[19:14] <Laurenceb__> may as well blow some money on this - its work stuff
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[19:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.actuatorzone.com/actuator-high-speed-actuator-pa-15-3-11-3-inch-stroke-11-lbs-force-actuator.aspx
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ariane launch imminent http://www.arianespace.tv/
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> BOOM
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> s/float/int16_t
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[21:01] <daveake> Think they fixed that one :)
[21:02] <KF7FER> Sparkgap: Take a look at this https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=110 Nice, but probably a bit more spendy that you want
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[21:03] <daveake> Upu is scaling back his HAB launches somewhat, whilst maintainign his pink theme ...http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8171497527/in/set-72157631972333763/
[21:13] <Darkside> bahaha
[21:14] <mattbrejza> when do we get yo see you on tv?
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[21:15] <daveake> Easter probably
[21:15] <daveake> Nobody knows :)
[21:15] <mattbrejza> these tv people like to hang around
[21:15] <daveake> And do stuff again
[21:16] <daveake> The classic was after the balloon burst .. they were in "mission control" with Upu and said (and I'm not joking) "Can we do the burst again please?"
[21:16] <mattbrejza> if they bothered buying more cameras (and people to hold them) they wouldnt have this issue (so much)
[21:17] <mattbrejza> o dear
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, is mission control your computer room?
[21:17] <daveake> I mentioned the above to Eben Upton (Raspberry Pi guy) who replied with a great line - "Glad to hear from someone else having trouble with the media's
[21:17] <daveake> attitude to the non-rewindable structure of reality"
[21:17] <daveake> LL yes
[21:18] <daveake> Fortunately Upu made a quick screenshot of "just burst" on spacenear, zoomed that up to full screen, and let the kids do "Oh wow it's burst!" ** FIVE ** times
[21:19] <daveake> When he mentioned this on IRC we saw that in the car and thought he was joking
[21:20] <mattbrejza> the kids seem to manage however
[21:21] <daveake> Yeah, they didn't care. The lad though was very quiet and totally unenthusiastic. The girl was great and a complete natural in front of the camera
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> daveake: who was filming?
[21:23] <RG_LZ1DEV> just got infront the computer
[21:23] <RG_LZ1DEV> and not sure what daveake is talking about
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> hahahaaa
[21:24] <RG_LZ1DEV> maybe i should scroll up
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> #jimmysavile
[21:24] <daveake> lol
[21:24] <daveake> I managed not to make any JS jokes :)
[21:24] <daveake> It was a production co commissioned by the BBC
[21:24] <sparkgap> KF7FER, yikes, that is pricy, but pretty cool
[21:25] <RG_LZ1DEV> haha
[21:25] <RG_LZ1DEV> "Can we
[21:25] <RG_LZ1DEV> do the burst again please?"
[21:25] <RG_LZ1DEV> gold
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> so what were you filming for?
[21:29] <daveake> It's a single show (but may be a series later) aimed at getting kids 8-11 to start learning to code
[21:29] <RG_LZ1DEV> whats the show called?
[21:30] <RG_LZ1DEV> i have a friend that runs this thing for kids, where they learn to do stuff with arduinos
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[21:34] <daveake> Provisionally "Cracking the Code"
[21:35] <daveake> It'll be an 8-10 minute segment in an hour show. Another segment was recorded at an F1 team factory
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[21:37] <RG_LZ1DEV> do you know the air data and time?
[21:37] <RG_LZ1DEV> date*
[21:39] <daveake> Easter ish
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[21:40] <mattbrejza> anyone know of a better bit synchroniser then early-late?
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> so rpi guys were there?
[21:44] <daveake> No. rpi were asked for an interesting project that the pi is being used for, and this one got recommended
[21:45] <eroomde> mattbrejza: not sure about a better discriminator
[21:45] <daveake> Eben and Liz are planning on coming to a launch, but that will be after I've got hold of the pi camera (ready in a few weeks)
[21:45] <eroomde> but you can use the descriminator output value in a better way that say a PLL
[21:47] <mattbrejza> i was just gonna move the sampling point back and forth based on the early-late output
[21:48] <mattbrejza> having oversampled by say 11x before hand
[21:49] <eroomde> for the gps DLL i plugged the output into a kalman filter
[21:49] <eroomde> sampling about 16x the chip rate
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> 16khz?!
[21:49] <eroomde> no
[21:49] <mattbrejza> last time i did this i ignored the filter part and just limited the amount it could move each time, but that was using a fpga so i cba
[21:50] <mattbrejza> but this time filtering would be easy enough
[21:50] <mattbrejza> not read up on kalman filters however
[21:51] Action: Laurenceb_ is getting pissed
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> no fast linear actuators
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> grrrrr
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> http://www.active-robots.com/linear-actuator-l12-30-50-06-r.html
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i might try that with the tronics ripped out and the motor running on 12v
[21:54] <eroomde> max1556
[21:54] <eroomde> 95% efficiency at 1mA smps chip
[21:54] <eroomde> gloria in excelsior
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> 95% @ 1ma load?
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[21:55] <eroomde> yeah
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> nice
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> what the risk in overvolting small DC motors?
[21:55] <eroomde> v impressive
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> just overheat?
[21:56] <eroomde> erm, just heat really
[21:56] <eroomde> you have to get to high volts before arfcing across windings
[21:56] <eroomde> remeber doubling the voltage is 4x the power
[21:56] <eroomde> which is a lot of extra heat
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> but itll be max voltage for like 1% duty
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: think that thing will burn out if i run the stock tronics at 12v ?
[22:23] <eroomde> poss
[22:23] <eroomde> dunno
[22:23] <eroomde> examine what's inside
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> is this high altitude?
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> and do you care if it lasts a week?
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> arcing across the commutator and brush damage happens lots earlier
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> also, possible overheating and demagnetisation of the magnets if you go too far
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> as long as you don't over current, it won't demagnetise or overheat generally
[22:31] <DanielRichman> yo eroomde
[22:31] <DanielRichman> Adam mentioned something about a python predictor project
[22:32] <DanielRichman> and then he mentioned you
[22:32] <DanielRichman> I was wondering if I could have a look at whatever you have
[22:32] Action: DanielRichman is looking at cleaning and then maybe even improving the predictor
[22:34] <DanielRichman> there's also another fresher who has will be as well
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: not high altitude
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[22:42] <m0psi> upu can't stand looking at the horizontal launch http://www.flickr.com/photos/azzawi/8170682069/in/set-72157631971096566/
[22:43] <m0psi> while both cameramen are hoping for something spectacular from daveake :-)
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[22:44] <daveake> Yes, bit worrying at that point. Very nearly needed plan B
[22:47] <m0psi> daveake, i kept meaning to ask you about the parts you used for the filler tube
[22:48] <m0psi> how did you interface the rubber tube with the wider plastic tube
[22:48] <m0psi> there seems to be some silicone or somethig inside
[22:48] <daveake> expanding foam filler
[22:48] <daveake> And some silicon at the end
[22:48] <daveake> +e
[22:49] <m0psi> so, how is the rubber secured to the plastic large tube?
[22:49] <daveake> The balloon to the tube? 2 cable ties and some duct tape
[22:49] <m0psi> no, the rubber goes inside the white plumbing tube
[22:49] <daveake> top tip (from Steve): use a lathe to cut a groove in the tube
[22:49] <m0psi> the diameters are very different
[22:50] <daveake> then the cable tie can push the latex into the groove
[22:50] <daveake> doesn't matter - fold it over
[22:50] <daveake> it's fine
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[22:54] <m0psi> i get the balloon onto the white plumbing tube (cable ties etc, that was what I was able to help with). I mean the tube that runs the gas from the regulator (or tap) to the white plumbing tube. What ensures the rubber tube not coming out from inside the white plumbing tube?
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[22:57] <daveake> oh, just expanding foam
[22:57] <daveake> very sticky stuff
[22:58] <m0psi> oh, ok. I'll give it a go
[22:58] <daveake> You confused me with "rubber" as there isn't any :)
[22:59] <m0psi> on the hydrogen there is, but the helium it is a green tube. my mistake
[23:01] <daveake> yup
[23:06] <daveake> It was the other end of the filler that failed :/
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[23:07] <m0psi> failed? what do you mean daveake?
[23:07] <daveake> The hose fell off the valve
[23:08] <m0psi> on friday?
[23:08] <daveake> yup
[23:08] <daveake> Hadn't started filling
[23:08] <m0psi> oh, i did not realise, you must have fixed it super quick
[23:08] <daveake> It was stuck on (well, wasn't) with glue.
[23:08] <m0psi> oh, i was going to say! if it had failed after filling, that would have been a bad thing
[23:08] <daveake> And a hose clip which wasn't working (kept slipping)
[23:09] <m0psi> jubilee clip thing?
[23:09] <daveake> yep
[23:09] <daveake> I've bought a valve so I'll make a more permanent filler assembly
[23:10] <daveake> Also Upu gave me a spare valve
[23:10] <m0psi> oh, the one used for the party balloon?
[23:11] <daveake> yes
[23:11] <daveake> I'll put that in the h2 hose
[23:11] <daveake> Better control
[23:11] <m0psi> then that into the h2 regulator?
[23:12] <daveake> No .. cyl --> reg --> valve
[23:12] <m0psi> y, that is what i meant
[23:12] <daveake> oh ok :)
[23:12] <m0psi> understood
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[23:53] <frank_____> hi
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[00:00] --- Sun Nov 11 2012