highaltitude.log.20121102

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[00:04] <m0psi> hi, is Arduino language indent sensitive?
[00:05] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Re: Nova 23 landing footage"
[00:05] <griffonbot> Received email: chris hillcox "[UKHAS] Gopro Hero 3"
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[00:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] Gopro Hero 3"
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[00:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.b3tards.com/u/e72b6a43f7162171a09b/hakunamatatat.jpg
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[01:32] <KF7FER> m0psi: no, indentation is for humans (a little late response)
[01:32] <m0psi> :-)
[01:32] <m0psi> guido didn't think so
[01:33] <m0psi> getting some really odd behaviour on my Arduino
[01:33] <m0psi> but, it is a 'freeduino'
[01:33] <m0psi> so, i'm thinking there is a compatibility issue, although i thought these things don't suffer from that
[01:34] <m0psi> since not much there really, the chip is a 168
[01:34] <KF7FER> It really shouldn't be a hardware issue
[01:34] <m0psi> really odd, i can't get tinyGPS to work
[01:34] <KF7FER> really? it's always worked for me
[01:35] <m0psi> well, i'm pulling my hair out here! :-(
[01:35] <KF7FER> are you using it with software serial?
[01:35] <m0psi> i must be missing something fundamental
[01:35] <m0psi> y, gps is on pins 4&5
[01:36] <m0psi> so, could be this timing issue upu mentioned
[01:36] <KF7FER> have you tried a simple standalone program?
[01:36] <m0psi> i've ordered another A, so that i can use it as a serial connector
[01:36] <m0psi> i can read the gps output
[01:37] <m0psi> but as soon as tinygps gets involved
[01:37] <m0psi> sillyness regins
[01:37] <m0psi> adding the #include <tinyGPS.h>
[01:37] <m0psi> things get unpredictable
[01:38] <m0psi> hence my conclusion of incompatibility
[01:38] <KF7FER> is it possible you're running out of memory?
[01:38] <m0psi> hmmm
[01:38] <m0psi> i don't know
[01:38] <KF7FER> more likely it's a coding problem than something with the hardware
[01:39] <KF7FER> are you using the 1.x Arduino environment?
[01:39] <m0psi> latest one
[01:39] <m0psi> ok, so i'm doing one step at a time
[01:39] <m0psi> currently this code works.
[01:40] <KF7FER> might be worth a try to go back to the pre-1.0 releases. It's my understanding that serial I/O has changed significantly in 1.x
[01:40] <m0psi> i'll paste it somewhere, hang on
[01:40] <KF7FER> pastebin.com? :-)
[01:40] <m0psi> y
[01:40] <KF7FER> I just learned about that site here
[01:41] <m0psi> me too
[01:41] <m0psi> http://pastebin.com/J5kVzMEA
[01:41] <m0psi> i'm not sure what it is, other than litereally a place to paste stuff
[01:41] <m0psi> and gives a tinyURL kind of link
[01:42] <m0psi> so, currently this works
[01:42] <m0psi> (btw, the gps cannot see the sky)
[01:42] <KF7FER> so all is good but you never get valid data, right?
[01:43] <m0psi> yep
[01:43] <m0psi> i do get stuff, if i go outside and get wet :-)
[01:43] <m0psi> but i don't care about that right now
[01:43] <m0psi> just want to parse stuff
[01:43] <KF7FER> ok
[01:43] <m0psi> happy for it to give me ""
[01:43] <KF7FER> so doesn't that mean the hardware is fine?
[01:43] <m0psi> at least not complain
[01:44] <KF7FER> after all, tinyGPS is working and all, right?
[01:44] <m0psi> y, but :-(
[01:44] <m0psi> no
[01:44] <m0psi> as you see all i did is add .h
[01:44] <m0psi> let me do the next bit
[01:44] <m0psi> i'll add stuff in the loop
[01:44] <m0psi> that is where it gets upset
[01:45] <KF7FER> oh! So you're saying that's the version thats' broken?
[01:45] <KF7FER> give me 2mins, sorry
[01:45] <m0psi> the one i pasted is working, AND it has the include file
[01:46] <m0psi> now, I added :
[01:46] <m0psi> TinyGPS gps;
[01:46] <m0psi> and it is broken
[01:46] <m0psi> !!!!
[01:47] <m0psi> i take it off, and it is fine :-(
[01:47] <m0psi> see what i mean. spooky and frustrating
[01:48] <KF7FER> back. hmmm....
[01:48] <m0psi> so, to be clear...
[01:49] <m0psi> I add the include file and it is ok
[01:49] <m0psi> i use the include file to declare an object, and it fails
[01:49] <KF7FER> ok.
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[01:49] <m0psi> and mem use is fine
[01:49] <m0psi> Binary sketch size: 6,072 bytes (of a 14,336 byte maximum)
[01:51] <KF7FER> well that's not the memory I was talking about
[01:51] <m0psi> oh
[01:51] <KF7FER> that's the size of the flash, not how much memory is used at run-tim
[01:51] <KF7FER> Here is a simple program I use to test GPSes http://pastebin.com/N0b8wGcd#
[01:51] <KF7FER> I hook the GPS up to the hardware serial port and when the LED lights I have a fix. Tells me all is well in a very simple way
[01:52] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[01:52] <KF7FER> might help you show if there is a problem with your hardware or not
[01:52] <KF7FER> I's also really suggest trying the last pre-1.0 version of the IDE.
[01:52] <KF7FER> I still use 0023 for my tracker builds
[01:53] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/NePi0.jpg
[01:53] <KF7FER> and I know the Trackuino guys have had issues with 1.x
[01:53] <m0psi> hmm
[01:53] <KF7FER> just a thought
[01:53] <m0psi> here is a thought
[01:54] <m0psi> that short program you just gave me
[01:54] <m0psi> i don't need to hook stuff up to check
[01:54] <m0psi> cos, i just want to see if tinygps is ok
[01:55] <KF7FER> fair enough. I actually have another piece of code that sends NMEA data as well, so I can test the whole thing without getting wet (I have the same problem you do)
[01:55] <KF7FER> SpeedEvil: A little holiday cheer eh?
[01:56] <KF7FER> Paul Dirac?
[01:57] <m0psi> so, you reckon if i hook up the gps to pins 1 & 0, then your code will work anyway. right?
[01:57] <KF7FER> we'll that's what I do, yeah. that's why I use the LED as an indicator
[01:58] <KF7FER> but you can't tell if it crashed or if it's running until you get a valid fix
[01:58] <KF7FER> It does blink 3 times at startup (to make sure I wired the LED up correctly)
[01:58] <m0psi> my board has onboard led
[01:59] <KF7FER> mine too, but things happen
[01:59] <m0psi> y
[01:59] <KF7FER> especially when I build them
[01:59] <m0psi> this is not working though
[01:59] <KF7FER> what does it do?
[01:59] <m0psi> no lights
[01:59] <KF7FER> you might need to change the baud rate
[01:59] <KF7FER> no lights, even at the start?
[01:59] <m0psi> of course i can't use the serial monitor now
[02:00] <m0psi> sorry, i get the three flashes
[02:01] <KF7FER> ok. that's all you get until it gets valid data from the gps
[02:01] <KF7FER> sorry it's not better
[02:01] <m0psi> y, and i wait, but nothing more
[02:01] <m0psi> np
[02:01] <m0psi> worth trying
[02:01] <m0psi> what about that other code you have?
[02:02] <KF7FER> do you have a pair of Arduino's?
[02:02] <KF7FER> or whatevers?
[02:02] <m0psi> no, but i did order another one
[02:02] <m0psi> to pretend to be a UM232R :-)
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[02:03] <KF7FER> np. The things is to use this you need two boards since one is a transmitter and one the receiver
[02:03] <KF7FER> are you in the US?
[02:03] <m0psi> UK
[02:04] <KF7FER> you really want something like https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716
[02:04] <m0psi> y
[02:04] <KF7FER> you can find the cheap versions on eBay for $3-4 shipped
[02:04] <m0psi> that is why ordered the other arduino
[02:04] <m0psi> apparently, all you have to do is :
[02:04] <m0psi> void setup ()
[02:05] <m0psi> void loop ()
[02:05] <m0psi> and there you have it
[02:05] <m0psi> it is one of those FTDI things
[02:05] <KF7FER> hmmm... I've seen people take a Uno and remove the chip and use it as an adapter.
[02:05] <m0psi> indeed. same thing i expect
[02:06] <KF7FER> not a bad idea, but I'd still suggest keeping your eyes out for a standalone FTDI board. Before you know it you'll need both Arduinos and won't want to give one up
[02:06] <KF7FER> but that's as funds permit and all that
[02:06] <m0psi> upu was telling me that the arduino is essentially the serial interface, plus the ATMega chip
[02:06] <KF7FER> right, but it's also more expensive and power hungry
[02:06] <m0psi> y, i expect you are right
[02:07] <m0psi> for now, since being new to this hobby, i want to limit expense
[02:07] <m0psi> i can justify another arduino :-)
[02:07] <m0psi> since it is supposed to be 'written off' for a flight
[02:07] <KF7FER> what you're doing is reasonable. And I can understand limiting expenses. Just keep it in mind if you see one. Seems to me it's one of those tools you'll use all the time
[02:08] <m0psi> y, for sure
[02:08] <KF7FER> just like an ISP programmer. You can always using ArduinoISP but standalone is faster and easier (just pull out the hardware and go)
[02:09] <m0psi> y, not there yet :-)
[02:09] <m0psi> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1146036&MER=baynote-1146036-pr
[02:09] <m0psi> this is the one i nearly got
[02:09] <m0psi> but 2 more ? got me a whole arduino uno
[02:10] <KF7FER> brb
[02:15] <KF7FER> back
[02:16] <KF7FER> and extra Arduino isn't a bad thing
[02:16] <KF7FER> especially for testing and such
[02:16] <m0psi> well, it's getting late here
[02:16] <m0psi> where are you?
[02:16] <m0psi> indeed
[02:16] <KF7FER> Oregon
[02:16] <m0psi> oh the other side of the world
[02:16] <m0psi> amazing this internet thing :-)
[02:16] <KF7FER> pretty much, but the same weather. and sure is
[02:17] <m0psi> i never really get bored of wondering about this tech stuff
[02:17] <m0psi> i was approaching Heathrow airport the other day
[02:18] <m0psi> and a massive jumbo 747 flew over
[02:18] <m0psi> wow what a sight
[02:18] <KF7FER> kinda amazing something large... that can fly... was built by man
[02:18] <m0psi> (i'm a pilot, and physicist etc)
[02:18] <m0psi> but still i really am in awe of this stuff
[02:19] <KF7FER> me I'm a long-time software geek but I'm learning more about the metal side of things
[02:19] <m0psi> well, i switched to the dark side
[02:19] <m0psi> i did a psychology ressearch degree!
[02:19] <m0psi> now i'm confused! :-)
[02:20] <KF7FER> don't most people study psychology to help fix themselves?
[02:20] <m0psi> this is more about HCI
[02:20] <KF7FER> urban legend I guess
[02:20] <m0psi> usabilty user experience etc
[02:20] <m0psi> which is very tech oriented
[02:20] <KF7FER> ah. Saved me having to search. And I've noticed the increase in people working on user interface design
[02:21] <m0psi> indeed
[02:21] <m0psi> quite crucial really
[02:21] <m0psi> iphone is an easy example
[02:21] <KF7FER> Apple does do nice, easy to use products that seem to be very polished
[02:22] <m0psi> well, this is exactly what is debatable
[02:22] <m0psi> but we wont start that conversation at 2:30 in the morning :-)
[02:22] <KF7FER> probably best
[02:23] <m0psi> ok, so before i go to bed
[02:23] <m0psi> can you paste that code for me please
[02:23] <m0psi> the other test one you have
[02:23] <KF7FER> sure
[02:24] <m0psi> thanks
[02:25] <KF7FER> it's really terrible code (I do know how to code a for loop), but http://pastebin.com/AUED3tvw
[02:25] <m0psi> hey, any help is help :-)
[02:26] <KF7FER> well I hope it does help.
[02:26] <KF7FER> good luck and let me know how it goes
[02:26] <m0psi> so, this one chucks out nmea pretend stuff?
[02:27] <KF7FER> yeah. I run that on one Arduino, and hook up the board on the other. Just to make sure I didn't mess up the I/O pins on the board
[02:27] <KF7FER> basically I install the first program on a tracker (sans gps), and then I load this new code on a 2nd board and connect tX->RX and RX-TX
[02:28] <m0psi> so it pretends to be a working gps
[02:28] <KF7FER> basically yeah. Not sure how helpful it will be, but...
[02:28] <m0psi> yep, useful
[02:28] <m0psi> thanks Brad
[02:28] <KF7FER> anytime
[02:28] <m0psi> have a good night
[02:28] <KF7FER> you too
[02:28] <m0psi> enjoy your election! :-)
[02:28] <KF7FER> hardly but that's another topic ;-)
[02:28] <m0psi> indeed
[02:28] <m0psi> nn
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[03:12] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: you around?
[03:12] <Dan-K2VOL> hey samsilver
[03:12] <Dan-K2VOL> how's things down there
[03:13] <SamSilver> the yagi you looking for (handheld)
[03:13] <SamSilver> 433?
[03:13] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[03:13] <SamSilver> I buit three
[03:13] <SamSilver> http://imgur.com/a/5Ai0Q#5
[03:14] <SamSilver> two like that ^
[03:14] <SamSilver> and one like this http://imgur.com/a/onCzs#7
[03:15] <SamSilver> have not had them on the dyno yet
[03:18] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: I got to dash,
[03:18] <SamSilver> bbl
[03:23] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
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[03:38] <wjh308> hi
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[05:15] <hido> hi, does anyone know how to cut off the string which is attached to the balloon envolop
[05:15] <hido> like, what sort of design i need to do that
[05:16] <hido> anyone here?
[05:16] <hido> does what i said make sense?
[05:17] <Darkside> don't launch assuming that a cutdown will save you
[05:17] <Darkside> especially one that hasn't been tested in flight
[05:19] <hido> we r not sure if the balloon is still floating in space or not
[05:19] <Darkside> what?
[05:19] <hido> i mean, incase, the balloon doesnot burst
[05:19] <Darkside> if you know your payload weight, and fill the balloon correctly, it should burst
[05:19] <Darkside> don't underfull the balloon, or even cut it close
[05:19] <Darkside> if in doubt, overfill
[05:20] <Darkside> it may burst sooner, but it will burst
[05:20] <hido> but CASA needs that shi t
[05:20] <Darkside> no you don't
[05:20] <Darkside> not for a light balloon
[05:20] <Darkside> heavy, sure
[05:20] <Darkside> but <4kg you shouldn't need a cutdown device
[05:21] <Darkside> i haven't looked at the relevant legislation in a while
[05:21] <Darkside> so i'm not sure
[05:21] <hido> i dont know, CASA requires some kind of system like this
[05:21] <Darkside> pretty sure it doesn't
[05:22] <Darkside> for the big stuff, sure
[05:22] <Darkside> like, Zero-Pressure stuff
[05:22] <Darkside> i'd have to have a read of the legislation again
[05:22] <Darkside> section 101
[05:23] <hido> could u give me the link?
[05:23] <hido> section 101
[05:23] <hido> i got the email saying i need that stuff
[05:23] <Darkside> im trying to find the section relevant to balloons now
[05:23] <hido> ok
[05:25] <Darkside> hrm
[05:26] <Darkside> Note For free balloon and heavy balloon, see regulation Error! Reference source
[05:26] <Darkside> not found..
[05:26] <Darkside> bahaha
[05:26] <hido> damn...
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[05:27] <hido> another question,
[05:27] <hido> about the radar reflector
[05:27] <hido> can i just wrap the whole box with AL foil?
[05:28] <Darkside> http://www.rmac.riverland.net.au/101casr.pdf
[05:28] <Darkside> you should be in the 'light' balloon class
[05:28] <Darkside> you only need all that stuff if you're in the medium or heavy class
[05:29] <Darkside> well
[05:29] <Darkside> the whole balloon diameter thing is a bit of an iffy part
[05:29] <Darkside> i'd just talk to casa
[05:30] <Darkside> we fly radar reflectors anyway
[05:30] <Darkside> and we have cutdown capability
[05:30] <Darkside> the radar reflectors we use are the ones from bureau of met radiosonde launches
[05:30] <Darkside> cutdown capability took a while to develop
[05:30] <Darkside> i wouldn't bother with a first flight
[05:31] <Darkside> just overfill the balloon a bit, it'll burst
[05:31] <hido> uhh.....cool
[05:32] <hido> but, can i just wrap the whole box with aluminum foil?
[05:33] <Darkside> that won't be good enough
[05:33] <Darkside> and it'll also stop your GPS from working
[05:33] <Darkside> tbh our radar reflectors can't ebt racked by ground radar anyway
[05:33] <Darkside> also, note the legislation
[05:33] <Darkside> either: (i) the balloon envelope carries a radar reflector, or radarreflective material, that will return an echo to a surface
[05:33] <Darkside> radar operating in the frequency range 200 megahertz to
[05:33] <Darkside> nots the OR there
[05:33] <Darkside> 2 700 megahertz; or (ii) the balloon is fitted with a device to allow it to be
[05:34] <Darkside> continuously tracked by the operator beyond the range of
[05:34] <Darkside> ground-based radar;
[05:34] <Darkside> you are satisfying the second part
[05:34] <Darkside> with your own tracker
[05:34] <Darkside> now, the next part is a bit shit however
[05:34] <Darkside> (d) if the balloon is operated in an area in which ground-based
[05:34] <Darkside> secondary surveillance radar is in use, it is fitted with an SSR
[05:34] <Darkside> transponder (with altitude-reporting capability) that either
[05:34] <Darkside> operates continuously or can be turned on by the operator if an
[05:34] <Darkside> air traffic control service so requires.
[05:34] <Darkside> that says that you must have a ADS-B transponder
[05:34] <Darkside> and screw that
[05:34] <Darkside> way too heavy, and way too expensive
[05:34] <Darkside> this is whwy the medium balloon class is a bit.. weird
[05:35] <Darkside> ok, gtg
[05:35] <hido> dude...
[05:35] <hido> how to make the radar reflector then?
[05:35] <hido> come back
[05:35] <Darkside> lol
[05:36] <Darkside> read what i said
[05:36] <Darkside> theres aN OR there
[05:36] <Darkside> you will be flying a tracking device
[05:36] <Darkside> that satisfies that part of the legislation
[05:36] <Darkside> http://www.rmac.riverland.net.au/101casr.pdf
[05:36] <Darkside> 101.185 1c
[05:36] <hido> the radar reflectors we use are the ones from bureau of met radiosonde launches
[05:37] <hido> i searched on the web, no results
[05:37] <Darkside> of course you won't
[05:37] <Darkside> the met burea launch radiosondes every day
[05:37] <Darkside> we occszionally go chase them down
[05:38] <hido> what the heck?
[05:38] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/sonde_lanching.jpg
[05:38] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=42
[05:38] <Darkside> read that
[05:38] <hido> u mean u get that thing after it drops down?
[05:38] <Darkside> the blog post covers what i do
[05:39] <Darkside> the digital sondes (with GPS) are launched very rarely
[05:39] <Darkside> the analog sondes, which is what the BOM use all the time, are launched every day
[05:39] <hido> r u the guy with glasses?
[05:39] <Darkside> but are a bitch to track
[05:39] <Darkside> what, down the bottom of th page?
[05:39] <Darkside> at the controls
[05:39] <Darkside> thats me
[05:39] <hido> hahah
[05:40] <Darkside> old pic :P
[05:40] <hido> lol
[05:40] <Darkside> but yeah, chasing those things down is a lot of work
[05:40] <hido> u mean u use the sondes as a radar reflector?
[05:40] <Darkside> no, i use the radar reflector as a radar reflector
[05:41] <hido> ok, i will read thru it
[05:41] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2012-10-07_Horus_29/Pages/30.html
[05:41] <hido> no ideas whats going on right now
[05:41] <Darkside> the thing in the foreground
[05:41] <Darkside> thats a radar reflector
[05:41] <Darkside> a corner reflector, to be precise
[05:41] <hido> it looks so heavy!!!!!
[05:41] <Darkside> its made of foam
[05:41] <Darkside> with a think layer of foil on it
[05:42] <hido> the surface is so smooth
[05:42] <Darkside> it probablt weighs about 200g
[05:42] <Darkside> if that
[05:42] <hido> can i use the foil from woodworths?
[05:42] <Darkside> that'd probably work
[05:42] <Darkside> this stuff is metallised mylar i think
[05:42] <Darkside> but sure, normal foil would work
[05:42] <hido> but i need to make the surface god-damn smooth right?
[05:42] <Darkside> or you, you know, don't fly one
[05:43] <Darkside> as the legislation says you don't need it if you have your own tracking device
[05:43] <Darkside> like i've been saying
[05:43] <hido> you know robert brand?
[05:43] <Darkside> i know of him
[05:44] <hido> hes got his tracking device but still needs the reflector
[05:44] <Darkside> i haven't met him, or talked to him
[05:44] <Darkside> well i dunno whats going on there
[05:44] <Darkside> i think each negotiation with CASA is different
[05:44] <Darkside> so do whatever they tell you to do
[05:44] <Darkside> i need to go
[05:44] <hido> damn..........
[05:44] <hido> ok, thankyou so much
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[07:17] <eroomde> morn
[07:18] <DanielRichman> hi
[07:18] <DanielRichman> woo fire alarm drills etc.
[07:18] <eroomde> splendid
[07:18] <eroomde> woo being awake at 6.30 for no particular reason
[07:19] <DanielRichman> the best kind of awake
[07:19] <eroomde> might just go to work
[07:19] <eroomde> well, the cold of the house was quite oppressive
[07:19] <eroomde> so it took 30 mins to get out
[07:19] <eroomde> but work has a new toy
[07:19] <DanielRichman> :o
[07:20] <eroomde> which is a reason to go and play
[07:20] <eroomde> it's a network analyser, spectrum analyser, and power meter all in one
[07:20] <eroomde> a Rohde & Schwarz ZVL
[07:20] <eroomde> 9khz-13GHz
[07:20] <DanielRichman> I was expecting fire to be involved
[07:20] <eroomde> well
[07:21] <eroomde> we did the first test fire of a new engine on tue also
[07:21] <DanielRichman> :P
[07:21] <DanielRichman> go well?
[07:22] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-tbhs3C8WA&feature=youtu.be
[07:22] <eroomde> well, demo'd that it works
[07:22] <eroomde> which is all you need for a first burn
[07:23] <eroomde> just want to check things don't spring apart
[07:23] <eroomde> or explode
[07:23] <eroomde> a tiny spec of grease somewhere in the oxygen line detonating and stripping the protecting oxidiser layer off some ali part which then becomes a roman candle
[07:24] <eroomde> that's a fun one
[07:24] <eroomde> so yes, it counts as a happy success
[07:24] <eroomde> :)
[07:24] <DanielRichman> woo
[07:24] <DanielRichman> cool
[07:25] <DanielRichman> what's your... explode or spring apart vs not rate for first tests so far :P?
[07:25] <eroomde> nothing has properly gone south on a live burn
[07:26] <DanielRichman> that's good
[07:26] <eroomde> but certainly during cold flow tests (the prellents inidivually without ignition) bad stuff can happen
[07:26] <eroomde> sometimes a thermocouple gets mortars out of its nipple in a high pressure line
[07:27] <eroomde> which then makes the rig sound like a stream train honking its siren
[07:27] <eroomde> mortared*
[07:27] <eroomde> but we're usually quite judicious about oxygen cleaning and drying everything
[07:27] <eroomde> IPA, nitrogen dry, H202, nitrogen dry
[07:28] <eroomde> but back to the ZVL toy!
[07:28] <eroomde> it's fun
[07:28] <DanielRichman> :P
[07:28] <eroomde> i pugged in a 70cm hab type antenna for interest
[07:28] <eroomde> amazing how sensitive the centre freq is to all sorts of things
[07:28] <eroomde> a shifting of say 20MHz just depending on how close my hand is or how i bend the ground plane
[07:29] <zyp> I played with one of those ZVL boxes in uni, I think it was the 13GHz one
[07:29] <eroomde> yeah, that's the one we have
[07:29] <eroomde> an ex demo unit loaded with all the toys
[07:29] <eroomde> we don;t have it forever
[07:30] <eroomde> it's like $35k new which is more than our little 3 man band has at the mo for a bit of equipment like that
[07:30] <eroomde> but we're on good terms with the local rep who is letting us look after it for a bit
[07:30] <eroomde> i quite like it, despite my reseverations about all these modern bits of test equipment being windows xp
[07:31] <eroomde> i would love to keep it indefinitely though. will be mega useful in the field
[07:32] <eroomde> what did you think of it zyp?
[07:32] <zyp> it was nice
[07:33] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/DheuF.jpg <- helped us tune the antenna on this
[07:33] <zyp> we etched some mockups for tuning before we had the board fabbed
[07:34] <eroomde> ah nice
[07:34] <eroomde> very nice
[07:34] <zyp> and later the spectrum analyzer mode helped us trace back a problem to bad crystal loading
[07:34] <eroomde> yeah that's exactly what i want to use it for straight away
[07:34] <eroomde> a 5.8GHz pcb antenna
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[07:34] <zyp> our is 2.4 GHz
[07:35] <eroomde> what is that pcb for, if i'm allowed to ask?
[07:35] <eroomde> it looks nice
[07:36] <zyp> my bachelor degree thesis; it contains inertial sensors, ANT radio and an atmega
[07:37] <eroomde> nice
[07:37] <eroomde> as part of a bigger project?
[07:40] <zyp> well, it was intended for stuff like detecting falls for elderly people
[07:40] <eroomde> microswitch on chest :)
[07:42] <zyp> one of the guys in my group wanted to continue working on it, commercializating it
[07:43] <zyp> but I passed on that, I just had fun making it and learning from that
[07:44] <eroomde> yeah
[07:44] <eroomde> i sympathise
[07:45] <eroomde> we had some people floating around when i was an undergrad always saying '... but, why not stop with the silly rocket stuff and just commercial this!? you can SELL this!'
[07:45] <eroomde> yes i'm sure i could
[07:45] <eroomde> but
[07:45] <eroomde> boring
[07:46] <eroomde> infact it was really the same guy from this sponsor company who was a bit obsessed with making money from our stuff. we turned his visits into a game which we called 'IP bailing'
[07:46] <eroomde> baiting*
[07:47] <zyp> ah, I've run into a few of those guys
[07:48] <eroomde> i don't think we really actually had much ip
[07:48] <eroomde> he just seemed to think there was
[07:48] <eroomde> and the job of turning a proof of concept into a polished product is so terrifying, to me, and so much effort, and so 80/20 rule, that it would have to be a really cool thing for me to want to put in the effort
[07:49] <zyp> yeah
[07:50] <zyp> I prefer to keep my hobby of making stuff as a hobby, and have a day job to go to to earn money
[07:51] <eroomde> i'm in a happy place atm in that regard
[07:51] <eroomde> work can afford stuff i can't
[07:52] <eroomde> and i can do stuff as a team of 3 that i couldn't on my own
[07:53] <eroomde> I hope it lasts
[07:53] <eroomde> but who knows
[07:57] <UpuWork> morning
[07:58] <eroomde> morn
[08:27] <costyn> morning
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[08:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Gopro Hero 3"
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[08:44] <costyn> UpuWork: got your gps back couple days ago, thanks for that
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[08:46] <UpuWork> no probs costyn
[08:48] <costyn> UpuWork: sure I can't reimburse you for shipping? I can easily send some money with paypal
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[08:51] <UpuWork> nah just link the shop if you feel the need to talk about your project etc
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[08:51] <costyn> UpuWork: ok thanks
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[12:21] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[12:22] <Lunar_LanderU> I didn't get to recording the RTTY yet
[12:22] <Lunar_LanderU> but when you quit fldigi, will the cursor stay where it had been when you start it again?
[12:27] <cuddykid> this is brilliant - http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/university-builds-cheap-supercomputer-with-raspberry-pi-and-legos/
[12:29] <Lunar_LanderU> I am asking because when I started my fldigi, the cursor was at the very left of the waterfall
[12:30] <cuddykid> Lunar_LanderU: no - it doesn't remember the position
[12:30] <Lunar_LanderU> if that was saved from closing the recording on the duration test, it would confirm that the frequency drifted out due to temperature
[12:30] <Lunar_LanderU> hm
[12:30] <cuddykid> pretty sure it doesn't anyway
[12:31] <daveake> I don't think so, but just try it!
[12:31] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[12:31] <Lunar_LanderU> what do you suggest?
[12:32] <Lunar_LanderU> putting it into a fridge and record while doing that for example?
[12:34] <daveake> You asked about the dl-fldigi cursor. You don't need a signal to see what happens to that when you restart the program
[12:34] <Lunar_LanderU> true
[12:36] <daveake> Back to your telemetry/decoding issue ... you can see what happens when the NTX2 drifts just by changing the temperature of the NTX2. e.g. blow on it
[12:36] <daveake> Having a long period of no data is bad if the frequency is drifting.
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[12:38] <Lunar_LanderU> is it a good idea to try to temperature protect the NTX2 then?
[12:38] <costyn> you can add extra isolation yes
[12:38] <costyn> bubblewrap the crap out of it :)
[12:38] <daveake> Yep :)
[12:38] <costyn> (someone here did that, made a lot of difference)
[12:39] <daveake> Steve I think
[12:39] <daveake> Not sure. But yes it's a very good idea
[12:39] <costyn> daveake: does xps expand/shrink due to cold/changes in air pressure?
[12:40] <daveake> Doubt it. My XPS payloads have always come back looking as good as new :)
[12:40] <daveake> We've had flights that have had long gaps and have drifted, and they've been a PITA to track
[12:40] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[12:41] <daveake> So, see what's using that 7 seconds, and see what you can do to optimize it
[12:41] <costyn> ok; my new tracker is encased in a clamshell of 2 plates of xps, I'm still not sure how I'm going to close them and hold them tight. Duct tape is an obvious answer, but I'd like something more elegant. Was thinking velcro strip wrapped around it, but this probably has its own risks
[12:41] <daveake> Basically it's taking your code 7 seconds to read the GPS and sensors
[12:42] <daveake> I did buy some tiny but very strong magnets for that job, but haven't used them yet
[12:43] <costyn> or some big rubber bands
[12:43] <fsphil> they might freeze and break
[12:43] <daveake> I wondered how the rubber would cope with -50C
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> badly
[12:43] <costyn> yea exactly :)
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> see space shuttle challenger
[12:44] <costyn> Maybe I'll send some along to find out :)
[12:44] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks daveake
[12:44] <Navrac_Work> gaffa works for me , but then again I'm not very proud
[12:44] <daveake> Weeell... that was a lack of springiness rather than breaking
[12:44] <costyn> daveake: how are you going to bond the magnets to/into your xps?
[12:44] <daveake> Spinnaker tape is neater and much lighter
[12:44] <Lunar_LanderU> so you suggested that inserting the millis() function after each step can help finding out how much time each step takes?
[12:44] <daveake> Both come in pink; other colours are available
[12:45] <daveake> costyn UHU Por adhesive
[12:45] <costyn> daveake: good idea on the spinnaker tape. the por adhesive will stick to the magnets? Or you are going to make a hole and embed the magnets in the xps?
[12:46] <daveake> LL - Yes, you can get the time before and after some code, then you know how long that code took
[12:46] <daveake> Por sticks to most things; I think it'd work
[12:46] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[12:46] <costyn> cool
[12:46] <daveake> And yes, make a hole and glue the magnet into it
[12:47] <daveake> btw Por comes in tubs too - much cheaper than tubes
[12:47] <daveake> Or, LL, you can just comment-out some code and see how much quicker the whole loop runs
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[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks daveake
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> I think about taking the payload home today and maybe test it with spacenear then
[12:50] <daveake> I shall watch :)
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[12:50] <fsphil> so, is the launchnear.us?
[12:51] <costyn> :)
[12:51] <daveake> farfaraway.com
[12:52] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[12:53] <fsphil> aww, that domain is taken
[12:53] <daveake> :(
[12:54] <costyn> unsurprisingly :)
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> hakunamatattoine.com
[12:57] <costyn> hehe
[12:58] <costyn> hakuna matata = no problem in swahili, although the Lion King makes that much clear although they do butcher other Swahili words
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, I will test the thing with the fldigi cursor first
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> then the temperature stability
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later!
[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks again
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[13:01] <fsphil> not like disney to butcher culture or history
[13:03] <fsphil> crap, I've got that song stuck in my head now
[13:05] <daveake> Well, a "problem-free philosophy" is just what you need for HAB :)
[13:10] <nick_> Does anyone know how much current a 3g dongle draws when it's trying to connect?
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[13:11] <eroomde> i understand the saturate their 500mA allownace
[13:11] <eroomde> mobiles often want even more
[13:12] <nick_> 500mA is the maximum allowed on usb?
[13:13] <eroomde> i believe so
[13:13] <eroomde> for enumerated devices
[13:13] <daveake> I have a GSM module and that specifies 2A peak, so I'm sure the USB songles will use up to the full 500mA
[13:13] <Navrac_Work> why does no one use the local 70cm repeaters while I'm testing aerials?
[13:14] <nick_> So I should be fine with a 1A regulator?
[13:18] <nick_> And presumably if I want to switch the dongle on/off with a transistor then I should put that before the regulator?
[13:19] <daveake> Yes and yes
[13:19] <nick_> Cool
[13:19] <nick_> Hopefully I'll finally get my mbed online via my vodafone dongle this weekend.
[13:21] <daveake> The dongle probably doesn't use much power normally. It's only when it's chatting to a transmitter that the power requirement goes up (and particularly if the transmitter is distant)
[13:22] <nick_> yeah
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[13:24] <nick_> Now I just need to find a cool use case.
[13:25] <nick_> Currently I'm thinking something like a GPS based theft detector.
[13:25] <griffonbot> Received email: William Dover "[UKHAS] Which Canon Camera for CHDK?"
[13:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Which Canon Camera for CHDK?"
[13:30] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Which Canon Camera for CHDK?"
[13:31] Nick change: signaleleven -> signal11_pulizie
[13:35] <Randomskk> eroomde: having just sat through a lecture on changepoint detection
[13:35] <Randomskk> I suddenly understand exactly why you had to write that rtty decoder
[13:36] <eroomde> i know right?
[13:36] <eroomde> it's perfect
[13:37] <eroomde> for lots of things
[13:37] <Randomskk> I know! all the things
[13:37] <Randomskk> so good
[13:37] <Randomskk> really want to make a totally awesome online bayesian decoder
[13:38] <Randomskk> from incoming FSK right through to probabilistic sentences
[13:38] <Randomskk> I mean you can put a uniform prior over [0-9.+- ,] for coordinate parts of sentences
[13:38] <eroomde> i love it when people start to get a tingle in their extremeties because they're beginning to 'grok' bayes
[13:38] <Randomskk> and then as you get more sentences you can put a tighter and tighter prior on most significant digits of lat/longs etc
[13:38] <eroomde> you start seeing the world differently
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[13:39] <Randomskk> indeed
[13:39] <eroomde> in that very vein, arithmetic coding would be a good thing
[13:39] <eroomde> for the *encoding* on a hab
[13:40] <eroomde> to compress the strings being sent down
[13:40] <Randomskk> totally
[13:40] <costyn> my final project at uni was with naive bayes classifiers, but that was almost 10 years ago. I don't remember having an aha moment, but it wasn't so much the classifier itself as using an ensemble of them
[13:40] <eroomde> because it's exactly what you'd described just then, really
[13:40] <Randomskk> or possibly deltas
[13:40] <Randomskk> yea but I mean, you can apply that in the decoding and still get a lot of gains
[13:40] <Randomskk> without breaking backwards compatibility
[13:40] <eroomde> indeed
[13:40] <Randomskk> costyn: it's more having a bayesian view on everything, I think
[13:41] <Randomskk> naive bayes classifiers are all well and good for machine learning/classification problems
[13:41] <costyn> Randomskk: I should look into it again, you guys make it sound so exciting :)
[13:41] <eroomde> it is!
[13:41] <Randomskk> but a small subset of the universe that is bayes
[13:41] <Randomskk> hmm international media
[13:41] <Randomskk> "Researchers at Cambridge University in London are testing if screams can be heard in space by loading human screams on a smartphone to be sent into space."
[13:41] <eroomde> lol
[13:41] <eroomde> where is that from?
[13:42] <Randomskk> http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/280677/scitech/science/cambridge-scientists-to-test-screams-in-space
[13:42] <Randomskk> nowhere notable
[13:43] <Randomskk> eroomde: also fitzgerald teased us a little by promising to go into MCMC and particle filtering methods
[13:43] <eroomde> he's good isn't he
[13:43] <Randomskk> I suddenly understand a lot better what you meant by "it works offline but I need to see if it can work online"
[13:43] <Randomskk> he really is
[13:43] <eroomde> some people pull a face a bit when i recommend 4F6
[13:43] <eroomde> cos it's not really that specific
[13:43] <Randomskk> that's kinda the best part about it though
[13:43] <eroomde> it's just sort of a general philosophical gallop through inference with a bunch of techniques
[13:43] <Randomskk> indeed
[13:44] <eroomde> but actually it's the most enlightening course i think i took at cam
[13:44] <Randomskk> and the most likely to be useful in pretty much anything thereafter too
[13:44] <eroomde> yeah
[13:44] <eroomde> particle filter are kool
[13:44] <eroomde> i have a toy one running for the gps
[13:44] <eroomde> again, so so simple once you grok them
[13:44] <Randomskk> I love how _everything_ drops out of the inference stuff
[13:44] <eroomde> yep
[13:45] <eroomde> it's all just bayes rule
[13:45] <Randomskk> like "oh hey if you try to estimate the frequency using bayes... you get the FT"
[13:45] <eroomde> really
[13:45] <Randomskk> "or if it's discrete, the DFT"
[13:45] <Randomskk> "also you can derive the kalman filter"
[13:45] <eroomde> yeah it's kinda like when neo saw the matrix right
[13:45] <Randomskk> inded
[13:45] <eroomde> you just see the underlying code that runs everything
[13:46] <eroomde> but yeah, all these techiques just make perfect sense in terms of being specific realisations of bayes rule
[13:46] <fsphil> whoa
[13:46] <eroomde> importance sampling
[13:46] <eroomde> well, that's just a prior
[13:46] <eroomde> kalman filtering, well that's just law of total probability (convolution) for the prediction step, and bayes rule for the measurement step
[13:46] <eroomde> particle filtering *precisely* the same thing
[13:46] <eroomde> precisely
[13:47] <eroomde> except the assumptions, just details really, are looser
[13:47] <eroomde> and you do it with sampling rather than analytically because the loosening of the assumptions makes it too computational to do analytically
[13:47] <Randomskk> mmm
[13:47] <eroomde> this is why i'd get bayes rule as a tattoo
[13:48] <Randomskk> it is also fun when you can answer questions from other modules like digital filtering and pattern processing using all the things from bayes
[13:48] <Randomskk> have you see autonomy in cambridge?
[13:48] <Randomskk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bayes%27_Theorem_MMB_01.jpg
[13:48] <eroomde> they're dodgy peeps
[13:48] <eroomde> but yes
[13:49] <eroomde> i need this too
[13:50] <UpuWork> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Icom-IC-R7000-ICOM-IC-R71A-radios-mounted-in-rack-case-hf-vhf-uhf-receivers-/140876812318?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item20cce9901e
[13:51] <UpuWork> there is an IC-R20 on there for £200 too
[13:52] <eroomde> Randomskk: you can also probably see why fitzgerald was considered the worst lecturer ever when we had him for 1A maths
[13:52] <Randomskk> hahaha oh wow yes
[13:52] <Randomskk> that would be terrifying
[13:52] <eroomde> he took us for fourier transforms
[13:52] <eroomde> 1st year
[13:52] <eroomde> no really maths knowledge
[13:52] <eroomde> 'hello, i'm fitzgerald. consider some orthogonal set phi'
[13:53] <eroomde> [10 minutes of him talking]
[13:53] <eroomde> "... and so we've shown equivalence is true and necessary - isn't that beautiful?"
[13:53] <eroomde> to stunned silence
[13:54] <Randomskk> haha
[13:54] <Randomskk> that would be great.
[13:54] <Randomskk> well, to watch.
[13:54] <eroomde> everyone runs back to their supervisors baffled to hear something like 'oh, it just means you can make any signal from a series of sines and cosines'
[13:54] <eroomde> that's what we wanted to hear as basically still a-level maths school leaveras
[13:56] <Randomskk> it's great how fast the maths spirals out of control. my mathmo friend is doing category theory
[13:56] <Randomskk> whcih is apparently about studying generic abstract patterns in mathematical concepts
[13:56] <Randomskk> maths of maths
[13:58] <eroomde> i had monads explained to me in terms of category theory once
[13:58] <eroomde> didn't help
[13:59] <Randomskk> no I don't imagine it would
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[14:12] Nick change: signal11_pulizie -> signaleleven
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[15:01] <mattbrejza> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18012571
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[15:30] <Navrac_Work> ping upuwork
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[16:35] <Navrac_Work> ping upu upuwork
[16:35] <UpuWork> boo
[16:35] <UpuWork> hi Navrac_Work
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> http://www.insightcrime.org/slavery-in-latin-america/zetas-enslave-engineers-in-mexico
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[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:03] <m0psi> hi
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, I saw how the frequency shifts when the system cools
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi m0psi
[18:03] <m0psi> hi lunar_lander
[18:04] <m0psi> did you see the bbc interview with felix
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[18:04] <m0psi> interesting that he compares his event to the moon landings
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> I think he isn't that good anymore
[18:04] <m0psi> no doubt it was a gripping event
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> he said mars research is unnecessary
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> and to move politics ahead, democracy is too slow
[18:05] <m0psi> but that is a few atmospheres too far
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> that is not good
[18:05] <m0psi> interesting
[18:05] <m0psi> what would he know about mars!
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> also that crap
[18:06] <m0psi> seen the self portrait of curiosity?
[18:06] <m0psi> very cool
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[18:06] <m0psi> i cant think how they did that
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> "a moderate dictatorship of private economy"
[18:07] <m0psi> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16239.html
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:08] <m0psi> the maths model to stitch that bunch of photos, is waaaay beyond my comprehension of maths
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> m0psi, but do you know what I thought was shocking?
[18:08] <m0psi> i don't know where to start to think about that one
[18:08] <m0psi> ?
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> well in connection to the thing that baumgartner thinks dictatorship is good, someone quoted a survey
[18:09] <m0psi> blimy, he comes from austria right?!
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> a number of Austrians would like to have a "strong leader", 6% even would accept a military dictatorship
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> that figures, right?
[18:10] <m0psi> bloody hell, it's not even been a century, and some wounds are still raw!
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> also, if I remember that Eurobarometer right, most of the people asked in Austria thought science is a waste of money, unnecessary
[18:11] <m0psi> nout as queer as folk
[18:11] <m0psi> hmm
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> I think it is not surprising that there are companies in that country that select applicants on their star sign or graphological reasons
[18:11] <m0psi> i hate to tar a whole people with one brush. so i wont
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[18:12] <m0psi> but, not good.
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> there is one astronomer who came from austria but lives in germany now
[18:12] <m0psi> only one? :-)
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> he like hates seeing how austria goes down the drain science-wise
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[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> he runs a blog at the german scienceblogs
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[18:13] <m0psi> well, there is no smoke without fire.
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:13] <KT5TK_QRL> ping oh7lzb
[18:13] <m0psi> so if the austrians get this kind of reputation. there must be 'something' 'somewhere' that generates this
[18:14] <m0psi> so, how do you think curiosity did the self portrait?
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[18:15] <nick_> Scientific skilss scalewith length of shorts, this is know
[18:15] <nick_> n
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[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> m0psi, well with the camera on the arm
[18:16] Nick change: bobtfish -> t0m
[18:16] <m0psi> ok, but you cant see the arm
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[18:19] <x-f> i'm not saying it was aliens, but..
[18:19] <m0psi> i reckon she had one of them makeup mirrors on a pole
[18:20] <m0psi> can't see the shadow, cos it is midday
[18:21] <m0psi> "ere, do you mind taking a photo of me, with this mountain in the background?"
[18:22] <m0psi> OK, so here is a question; has anyone taken a self portrait of a hab, at altitude?
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> there have been pictures of the balloon
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> I don't suppose you count money shots
[18:23] <m0psi> sure, but payload
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[18:24] <x-f> m0psi, http://www.flickr.com/photos/stilldavid/8144695878
[18:24] <m0psi> nice x-f
[18:24] <m0psi> love it
[18:25] <m0psi> the camera insulation would be a problem, but you could have just the CCD part, on the end of the stick
[18:26] <m0psi> hmm, quite the problem actually
[18:26] <m0psi> this shot shows the box to be balanced, so, it was probably counterbalanced somehow
[18:26] <m0psi> such a cool photo
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[18:29] <arko> morning
[18:29] <arko> that sparkfun payload looks awesome
[18:31] <m0psi> y, still can't see how the did the camera, unless it was a tiny thing, that did not need much balancing. and the fisheye did not neet to be too far away from the box
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[18:34] <daveake> m0psi Probably the "camera on an arm" had its own support line
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[18:36] <m0psi> daveake, support line?
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[18:37] <daveake> When I've done this, I've put a key-ring a little way above the payload, and I tie lines from there to the payload and to the ends of any arms sticking out.
[18:38] <m0psi> ah
[18:38] <m0psi> ok, cantilever kind of thing
[18:43] <m0psi> daveake, are you launching this weekend?
[18:43] <daveake> hopefully
[18:43] <m0psi> is it ok if i come and watch?
[18:44] <daveake> Sure, but you will be helping too :)
[18:45] <m0psi> for sure
[18:45] <m0psi> "ere, hold this string!"
[18:45] <m0psi> or is there more :-)
[18:45] <daveake> "and don't let go"
[18:46] <m0psi> ah, glad you said that now!
[18:46] <daveake> The predictions are changeable; I probably won't make a final decision till Sunday morning
[18:46] <m0psi> can you email me joining instructions please
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[18:46] <m0psi> ali at azzawi dot net
[18:46] <daveake> "joining"?
[18:47] <m0psi> as in, location, time etc
[18:47] <daveake> ok sure
[18:47] <m0psi> usual term for conferences etc :-)
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[19:03] <m0psi> i thought the arduino ran any code in it, forever, in a loop. however, it seems to 'start' when i view the serial monitor' on the arduino dev env. What's going on?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake did you read what I wrote above?
[19:04] <KF7FER> I think opening the serial port causes the IDE to issue a reset
[19:04] <nick_> Starting the serial monitor resets it
[19:04] <KF7FER> err Serial Monitor
[19:05] <m0psi> ok, makes sense
[19:05] <nick_> If that's an issue you could monitor it another way
[19:07] <gb73d> http://spacenewsgb.weebly.com/
[19:09] <daveake> LL That you saw the freq change?
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:10] <daveake> good
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> also it uncovered a problem in the sensor data parsing
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> the temperature didn't have a minus sign
[19:11] <daveake> Fixed now?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> the minus issue?
[19:12] <daveake> Yes. Did you fix it?
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> will do
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> and I brought the payload home for the spacenear test
[19:16] <DrLuke> I already stripped 150g off this camera without loosing any functionality :D
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:20] <KT5TK_QRL> We're planning to launch some Pico balloons this Saturday ~19:00 UTC
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[19:21] <KT5TK_QRL> KT5TK-10 and KT5TK-11
[19:21] <KT5TK_QRL> Anyone willing to add them to spacenear.us ?
[19:22] <DrLuke> where from?
[19:22] <stilldavid> x-f: hello!
[19:22] <DrLuke> and will it be near the southeastern part of germany?
[19:22] <x-f> hi, stilldavid
[19:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Katy Texas (near Houston)
[19:22] <DrLuke> oh
[19:22] <DrLuke> I think that's a bit far :P
[19:22] <stilldavid> x-f: you say something to me? my logs cleared
[19:22] <fsphil> awww... /me puts away his yagi
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello stilldavid
[19:22] <stilldavid> hiya Lunar_Lander
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> just reading your text on flying the sparkfun box :)
[19:23] <KT5TK_QRL> One of them is a 350g latex with a 35g payload
[19:23] <stilldavid> cool :) threw that together pretty quick yesterday am
[19:23] <fsphil> new transatlantic delivery option?
[19:23] <x-f> stilldavid, i just pasted a link to your flickr with sparkfun HAB
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:23] <stilldavid> ah, cool.
[19:23] <KT5TK_QRL> We have no experience with small latex floaters.
[19:24] <fsphil> "Your parcel will arrive at 13:55 in ... MAYBE EUROPE ..."
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> stilldavid, today I learned something about NTX2 thermal stability
[19:24] <KT5TK_QRL> The battery should last that long and the prediction starts off with a wind from South
[19:24] <stilldavid> Lunar_Lander: and how it's really not stable :)
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD exactly
[19:24] <fsphil> KT5TK_QRL: are both flights the same?
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon did a crystal oven once, right?
[19:25] <KT5TK_QRL> One will be a mylar floater
[19:25] <fsphil> good insulation is all you need
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <fsphil> I've never had much drifting on any of my flights
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> someone I think put heat shrink around his NTX2
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> stilldavid, btw Felix Baumgartner talked some crap recently
[19:29] <stilldavid> oh yeah? about what?
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> about how Curiosity is a waste of money
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> and also that democracy can't really change things
[19:30] <DrLuke> I agree to the second point
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> he favoured a "moderate dictatorship of private economy"
[19:30] <stilldavid> hm. not sure I care to hear his thoughts on space polic
[19:30] <stilldavid> *y
[19:31] <fsphil> he does overall seem to be a bit of a twit
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea like the thing where he hit the truck driver?
[19:33] <fsphil> not heard about that one
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah that was like two years ago and he had to pay money as a penalty but he asked for revision and is now in court again
[19:35] <fsphil> ah well
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[19:50] <gb73d> http://www.i4is.org/index.html
[19:50] <m0psi> not stellar, INTER stellar!!
[19:51] <MrScienceMan> why do they have a pirate ship in their logo?
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[19:52] <gb73d> thats the discovery
[19:52] <gb73d> capt cooks ship
[19:53] <MrScienceMan> that kinda of ship doesnt work in space ;(
[19:53] <gb73d> thats a start
[19:54] <gb73d> what will ? is the big Q
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> Q?
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> like on James Bond?
[19:56] <MrScienceMan> well Q had some pretty nice gadgets
[19:56] <MrScienceMan> dont think he had a interstellar space ship tho
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> the submarine car in the one movie was cool
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> in "The Spy Who Loved Me"
[19:58] <DrLuke> ah crap I wasted my cam
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:59] <gb73d> 007 on Alpha Centari
[19:59] <gb73d> thats got legs
[19:59] <fsphil> 007 ... light years away
[20:00] <daveake> Silly pie. Oven has been on 20 mins but it's not cooked yet ...
[20:00] <DrLuke> you cook your pies?
[20:00] <daveake> ... suppose it would be better if I removed the pie from the worktop and put it in the oven ...
[20:01] <m0psi> processing question: trying to use this line "sTime = str(time);". Arduino compiler complains that "error: 'str' was not declared in this scope". Do I have to include some header or what?
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[20:02] <m0psi> i thought str() was a standard thing
[20:02] <DrLuke> #include <string.h>
[20:02] <m0psi> thanks
[20:02] <DrLuke> you're welcome
[20:02] <DrLuke> oh wait
[20:02] <DrLuke> str might not work anyways, you'll want itoa
[20:02] <m0psi> oh?
[20:03] <DrLuke> char buf[100]; itoa(time, buf, 10);
[20:03] <m0psi> http://www.processing.org/reference/strconvert_.html
[20:03] <DrLuke> will put time as a string into buf
[20:03] <DrLuke> with a radix of 10
[20:03] <DrLuke> you can also output it as hex or binary if you're fancy
[20:03] <john____> hello, im trying to buy a cheap radio receiver, is this ok to use in uk: http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/radio-scanners/scanners/bearcat-ezi33?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product%2Bsearch&utm_campaign=xml%2Bfeed
[20:03] <DrLuke> you can use any receiver anywhere you want
[20:04] <daveake> [100]? Arduino RAM doesn't grow on trees, you know :)
[20:04] <DrLuke> make it as much as you need
[20:04] <DrLuke> or don't use arduino :P
[20:04] <m0psi> i thought that 'processing' was the ardruino language?!
[20:04] <daveake> bearcats don't do SSB AFAI
[20:04] <DrLuke> no
[20:04] <DrLuke> it's C++
[20:04] <m0psi> oh?!
[20:05] <DrLuke> processing is a whole different thing
[20:05] <DrLuke> and the environment is called wiring
[20:05] <m0psi> damn! ok, i'm leaving!!
[20:05] <DrLuke> processing also bases on wiring
[20:05] <m0psi> so, arduino is entirely c++ ?
[20:05] <DrLuke> yeah
[20:06] <DrLuke> which is a silly thing to do on an AVR anyways
[20:06] <m0psi> well, it is at least good to know
[20:06] <DrLuke> if you're serious about microcontrollers and electronics, you might want to invest your time into ditching arduino and going for AVRs directly
[20:06] <DrLuke> it'll pay off in the end
[20:07] <m0psi> avr?
[20:07] <DrLuke> it's the family of microcontrollers arduino uses
[20:07] <DrLuke> it doesn't really stand for anything
[20:07] <DrLuke> it's just avr
[20:07] <m0psi> ATmega etc?
[20:07] <DrLuke> yes
[20:07] <DrLuke> atmega is a subfamily of avr
[20:07] <m0psi> ok. so you propose learning to program the chip directly
[20:08] <DrLuke> yep
[20:08] <DrLuke> it's fun
[20:08] <DrLuke> you learn so much about it
[20:08] <m0psi> instead of going through the ide?
[20:08] <DrLuke> but it's very daunting at first
[20:08] <DrLuke> you'll go through a different IDE
[20:08] <m0psi> you are mad. How do i block you!?
[20:08] <DrLuke> you're on mac, right?
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[20:08] <DrLuke> :)
[20:08] <m0psi> y
[20:08] <DrLuke> well, that sucks
[20:08] <m0psi> i am using mac
[20:08] <john____> is there any radio receiver that is ssb under £100
[20:08] <DrLuke> the official avr IDE only runs on windows as far as I know
[20:08] <m0psi> bsd, i get a proper terminal
[20:09] <DrLuke> John____: dvb-t dongles
[20:09] <m0psi> not a bad thing
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke, the AVR Studio?
[20:09] <DrLuke> yes
[20:09] <DrLuke> it's a very nice IDE
[20:09] <DrLuke> but sadly windows only
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:10] <DrLuke> yeah, programming AVRs on a mac is just as difficult as on linux (for beginners)
[20:10] <DrLuke> you might think about getting a windows machine
[20:10] <DrLuke> or get a dualboot
[20:11] <daveake> john___ You should be able to get one of these for <=£100 ... ICOM IC-R10, AOR AR8000, Yupiteru MVT7200
[20:11] <DrLuke> http://i.imgur.com/kHibz.png
[20:11] <john____> DrLuke: is it reliable for beginners, and does it scan the UK 434 Mhz
[20:11] <DrLuke> it's 15$, so there's nothing you can do wrong with it
[20:11] <m0psi> hmm, is that c++ too drluke?
[20:11] <DrLuke> it certainly is good enough from what I heard
[20:12] <Upu> there is an IC-R20 on Ebay for £200 atm
[20:12] <DrLuke> m0psi: No, only C
[20:12] <Upu> evening
[20:12] <DrLuke> C++ is unecessary
[20:12] <m0psi> hey upu
[20:12] <DrLuke> hi upu
[20:12] <m0psi> c is nice, i get it, and happy to stick to it
[20:12] <DrLuke> C++ has a lot of high level stuff like classes, garbage collection and cupholders
[20:12] <DrLuke> you don't need that on mcus
[20:12] <m0psi> i expect it is good for most control jobs
[20:12] <DrLuke> C++ has a high ram and flash demand
[20:13] <DrLuke> relative to C
[20:13] <m0psi> y, c is much closer to the floor
[20:13] <DrLuke> yeah
[20:13] <m0psi> what is 'radix'?
[20:13] <m0psi> you mentioned that above
[20:13] <DrLuke> it's the number system
[20:13] <DrLuke> 10 is decimal
[20:13] <DrLuke> 2 is binary
[20:13] <m0psi> oh
[20:14] <DrLuke> the amount of different symbols is called a radix
[20:14] <DrLuke> (unless I'm mistaken)
[20:14] <fsphil> 10 is binary too .... </nitpick>
[20:14] <DrLuke> there are only 10 people on the world
[20:14] <daveake> I'm in 10 minds about that
[20:14] <DrLuke> those who speak binary, those who don't, and those who think this is a binary joke.
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, btw your Yupiteru
[20:17] <daveake> Mine? I don't have one :)
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> I think I saw one in your mitsubishi or in that movie that your friend made about your first balloon
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[20:17] <daveake> In the Shogun, yes, but I sold that scanner.
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I just wanted to ask if you used like high or low squelch on it?
[20:18] <daveake> Bought an R10 which is better
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:18] <daveake> Well, you know what squelch does?
[20:18] <john____> i think yaesu and icom's are quite expensive, i have seen them for £50 on ebay
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I'd need to read it up
[20:18] <john____> but i might go with dongle
[20:18] <daveake> Well, LL, you don't want it
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> it suppresses noise
[20:19] <daveake> No it doesn't
[20:19] <Upu> Ali did you get your code working ?
[20:19] <daveake> It turns the audio off if the signal is below a certain level (set by the squelch control)
[20:19] <m0psi> upu yes, it seems to be
[20:19] <m0psi> which is worrying
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:19] <Upu> oh cool I was just about to set up a board
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> so it's not good for low signals
[20:19] <Upu> you need to stop using software serial
[20:20] <Upu> honestly
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> *low power signals
[20:20] <daveake> So it's used to turn the audio off when there's nothing to listen to
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:20] <daveake> Which you want if you're listening to speech
[20:20] <daveake> But you don't want when you're listening to a possibly weak rtty signal
[20:20] <m0psi> well, it is still not great. i did send up off for another arduino , upu
[20:20] <m0psi> waiting for that
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yes
[20:22] <Upu> ok glad you got it working
[20:22] <m0psi> drluke, compiler complaining about this: Serial.println("Time: %s\n", sTime);
[20:22] <DrLuke> dunno
[20:22] <DrLuke> what does it complain
[20:22] <m0psi> upu, as soon as i get this reading bit of gps data, i'll stick it out of the window, an will see
[20:23] <m0psi> error: invalid operands of types 'const char [5]' and 'char [20]' to binary 'operator+'
[20:23] <m0psi> char sTime[20], sLat[20], sLon[20]; itoa(time, sTime, 10);
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[20:24] <m0psi> upu, all i did was run it up again. hence my worry. i did not do any different from yesterday
[20:24] <m0psi> hence the frustration too :-(
[20:24] <daveake> m0psi that error message doesn't refer to any of the lines you poste
[20:24] <daveake> d
[20:24] <Upu> should try coding at sensible hours of the day and not 2am :)
[20:25] <m0psi> daveake, it is referring to the println line
[20:25] <m0psi> at least that is what it highlighted
[20:25] <m0psi> y, 2am sucks
[20:25] <fsphil> I wrote some of my best code at 2am. fair enough, when you read it back it makes no sense. but it works
[20:26] <m0psi> obfiscated arduino
[20:26] <daveake> m0psi That line doesn't contain a binary operator, as it stands. Your error is elsewhere.
[20:26] <daveake> pastbin the entire source
[20:26] <daveake> pastebin
[20:26] <DrLuke> m0psi: just do Serial.println(sTime);
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> I like paste.ubuntu.com better
[20:26] <DrLuke> without concatenating it
[20:27] <m0psi> why cant i concatinate?
[20:27] <DrLuke> just try it
[20:27] <m0psi> y, it works
[20:28] <DrLuke> you can't concatenate because println isn't printf
[20:28] <daveake> Of course
[20:28] <m0psi> hmm
[20:28] <m0psi> ok, but printf was not allowed
[20:28] <m0psi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1327443/
[20:28] <DrLuke> just don't use printf
[20:29] <DrLuke> print it seperately
[20:29] <m0psi> LL, y, much nicer interface
[20:29] <DrLuke> easy fix
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:29] <DrLuke> alternatively just write a function to concatenate strings
[20:29] <m0psi> ok. at least it now works
[20:29] <DrLuke> (or use one of the string.h ones)
[20:30] <MrScienceMan> Serial.println("Lat " + sLat +"\n");
[20:30] <MrScienceMan> lol
[20:30] <MrScienceMan> tihs is not java
[20:30] <DrLuke> if it was that easy :)
[20:30] <m0psi> life SHOULD be that easy :-)
[20:31] <MrScienceMan> do print("Lat "); println(sLat);
[20:31] <DrLuke> it shouldn't be
[20:31] <DrLuke> where would be the fun in that?
[20:31] <MrScienceMan> println does the \n at end
[20:31] <m0psi> now your getting into politics drluke
[20:31] <m0psi> you and felix!
[20:31] <DrLuke> uh oh! :P
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[20:32] <DrLuke> well
[20:32] <DrLuke> now I'm in dire need of a new camera
[20:32] <DrLuke> anybody wanna part with one?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:32] <m0psi> right, time to help elder daughter put a shelf up...
[20:32] <DrLuke> don't hurt yourself!
[20:33] <m0psi> much easier than println!!!
[20:33] <DrLuke> also make sure your water level is actually working :P
[20:33] <DrLuke> I heard this funny story recently...
[20:33] <DrLuke> it involved tilted shelves
[20:40] <DrLuke> maybe I should just get a camera module
[20:40] <DrLuke> it certainly would be lighter
[20:40] <DrLuke> and easier to control
[20:41] <john____> what problems from experience is their with the dvb-t just in case
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[20:42] <DrLuke> well, it's a rather low quality signal compared to a proper receiver
[20:42] <DrLuke> but for those low transmission speeds it really doesn#t matter
[20:44] <john____> im just receiving temp and most important gps data from the max-6
[20:45] <DrLuke> as I said
[20:45] <DrLuke> with a baud rate of 50, the signal quality doesn't have to be the best
[20:45] <heathkid> john____: did you have to put your max-6 in "Flight Mode"?
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[20:47] <john____> yes
[20:48] <john____> used level converter and initialised flight mode
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> wow thunderstorm approaching
[20:53] <fsphil> lucky
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[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> there is a funfair in the city, 15 km away and you can usually hear the fireworks and I thought that is it
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> but then I just saw a lightning bolt
[20:54] <fsphil> wish I was there
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> let's do the UKHAS 2013 conference in osnabruck, germany
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:55] <fsphil> would be DEHAS then :p
[20:55] <daveake> If I fly late enough on Sunday, wonder if I'll capture any fireworks on the way down
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> the thundering just stopped
[20:56] <daveake> Donner und Blitzen. Other reindeer are available.
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:02] <pthomas_> hi
[21:03] <pthomas_> does anyone know of a good simulator to try and find out were a balloon will land?
[21:04] <fsphil> hiya pthomas_, the usual one is here: http://habhub.org/predict/
[21:04] <arko> ^ my fav
[21:05] <pthomas_> I tried that one, and http://weather.uwyo.edu/polar/balloon_traj.html but they gave me very different results
[21:07] <pthomas_> my school science club is planning on sending a balloon up with cameras and we want to know where it might land, as we are close to water and we need to be ready if there will be a water rescue
[21:07] <arko> my favorite was running this simulations during sandy
[21:07] <pthomas_> that must have given some pretty wild stuff
[21:08] <pthomas_> the habhub.org one is reliable?
[21:08] <arko> fairly
[21:08] <pthomas_> ok
[21:08] <arko> it predicted the direction my last one went pretty accuratly
[21:08] <pthomas_> how high is a pretty average burst height?
[21:09] <arko> 30,000m ish
[21:09] <arko> depends on the balloon, and balloon pressure
[21:10] <Upu> pthomas_ I'm not familar with the uwyo.com one but the habhub one is very well proven
[21:11] <pthomas_> ok
[21:11] <pthomas_> I got the uwyo.com one from an article I was reading
[21:11] <Upu> where are you based ?
[21:11] <pthomas_> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/diy-flying/how-to-launch-a-camera-into-space
[21:11] <pthomas_> Delaware
[21:12] <Upu> oh ok yeah best use this http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[21:12] <Upu> has more accurate information
[21:12] <pthomas_> ok. I will take a look
[21:12] <Upu> you're in the US so you have more options for tracking
[21:12] <Upu> over here we can't use APRS in the air
[21:12] <Upu> but you can
[21:12] <Upu> if you're a licensed amateur anyway
[21:13] <pthomas_> over there? and what is APRS?
[21:13] <Upu> don't let the UK part of his put you off we have alot of americans on here
[21:13] <Upu> nah
[21:13] <pthomas_> I don't particularly care where you are from
[21:13] <Upu> Automatic Packet Reporting System
[21:13] <Upu> well laws are different
[21:14] <pthomas_> yeah
[21:14] <arko> anyone here know who runs habhub.org?
[21:14] <Upu> so best have some local knowleAutomatic Packet Reporting System
[21:14] <Upu> oops
[21:14] <daveake> :)
[21:14] <Upu> yeah arko the server is run by me, however the HAB Hub team make it work
[21:14] <arko> oh
[21:15] <pthomas_> this is really helpful, thanks guys
[21:15] <Upu> thats DanielRichman, Randomskk, jonsowman , priyesh to name but a few
[21:15] <arko> how accurate is the predictor running with GFS HD data?
[21:15] <Upu> jonsowman ---/\
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[21:15] <arko> can i run the habhub myself?
[21:15] <Upu> which part
[21:16] <arko> i would like to script something to run tests for me one a day
[21:16] <Upu> its all open sourced
[21:16] <arko> either side
[21:16] <arko> oh sweet
[21:16] <DanielRichman> you mean predictions, one a day?
[21:16] <arko> yes
[21:16] <Upu> arko http://hourly.upuaut.net/
[21:16] <Upu> something like that
[21:16] <pthomas_> you own the habhub.org prediction thing?
[21:16] <Upu> I don't think anyone "owns" it pthomas_
[21:16] <DanielRichman> you want to deploy this, arko - https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction
[21:16] <arko> YES!
[21:17] <DanielRichman> pro tip: you need a specific version of pydap (when you get it)
[21:17] <arko> exactly that!
[21:17] <DanielRichman> you need Pydap==3.0.1
[21:17] <DanielRichman> or you will get weird errors
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, will the habhub system be able to do that one day?
[21:17] <DanielRichman> I recommend installation into a virtualenv
[21:17] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander: yes
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. to show the trajectories for several hours
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:17] <DanielRichman> they're powered by the same C predictor just with a different interface and glue and stuff
[21:17] <DanielRichman> it's gonna get a makeover soon
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> and can you bring back the float function from the first predictor?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:17] <DanielRichman> if I have my way
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[21:18] <DanielRichman> arko: IIRC there's no other gotchas when deploying it. Might be a bit fiddly but if you know your way around linux command line it should be fine
[21:18] <arko> ok
[21:18] <arko> what do you recommend?
[21:18] <arko> install ubuntu then?
[21:19] <DanielRichman> where are you thinking of putting it? on your desktop or on a server
[21:19] <arko> server
[21:19] <arko> i have a few xeon servers that arent computing at the moment
[21:19] <DanielRichman> downloads about 250mb; and takes about 10 minutes or so to run the full set of predictions. Only a very little bit of that is actual cpu usage, most very very slow downloading froms low wind servers
[21:19] <DanielRichman> okay yes
[21:19] <DanielRichman> deploy your faviourite ubuntu
[21:20] <DanielRichman> check that git repo out into /opt
[21:20] <arko> ok
[21:20] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:20] <arko> oh hell ya
[21:20] <arko> it's python!
[21:20] <Upu> natrium runs spacenear.us
[21:20] <arko> and shell scripts :D
[21:20] <DanielRichman> yeah
[21:20] <DanielRichman> it's a bit icky
[21:20] <DanielRichman> if you like looking at python
[21:21] <arko> anything i need to install other than python?
[21:21] <DanielRichman> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat
[21:21] <DanielRichman> you'll need to compile the C program inside pred_src
[21:21] <DanielRichman> you'll need cmake libglib and build-essential
[21:21] <DanielRichman> I think
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, can I ask another habhub thing?
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> who does payload documents?
[21:21] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander: you do
[21:21] <arko> wait which one do i check out? cusf or habitat?
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> I know Randomskk does
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:21] <DanielRichman> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[21:22] <DanielRichman> arko: cusf
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:22] <Upu> do you mean authorise them Lunar ?
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:22] <DanielRichman> in that case, I do too
[21:22] <arko> what that habitat link?
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:22] <DanielRichman> habitat is the software that parses telemetry uploaded by dl-fldigi
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:22] <DanielRichman> it forwards it to the map - which is the only bit that is not open source - but we're gonna rewrite that sometime
[21:22] <arko> oh neat
[21:22] <arko> cool
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, cool, the site looks different than some time ago though
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> I recall it was a gray site where you had to use TAB to get to the next point or so
[21:23] <DanielRichman> it's more powerful and easier to use now
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:23] <DanielRichman> and more importantly it generates documents for the new database
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:24] <arko> DanielRichman: does it use the GFS HD data?
[21:27] <DanielRichman> I don't know
[21:27] <DanielRichman> maybe not
[21:27] <arko> its cool
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[21:28] <arko> thanks!
[21:28] <arko> I finally wont feel like im wasting time on my "supercomputer"
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[21:31] <SpeedEvil> joy
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> come Nov 5, eBay I pulling wildcard searches
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> is
[21:31] <arko> so stupid
[21:31] <arko> why are they doing this!?
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[21:34] <SpeedEvil> good question
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> I assume economising on dB hardware
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> http://community.ebay.co.uk/topic/Search-Categories/Wildcard-Search-Withdrawal/1700102621 if you care to have a go at moaning at them
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[21:47] <Randomskk> arko: I wouldn't hugely bother with the HD data
[21:47] <Randomskk> very little difference
[21:47] <Randomskk> (also hi)
[21:47] <arko> i just ran the predictor and i got totally different results
[21:47] <arko> also hello!
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> just made a payload configuration
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[21:49] <Randomskk> arko: totally different results on what to what?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, what do I need to do next?
[21:50] <arko> same conditions different weather data
[21:50] <Upu> whats the payload Lunar_Lander ?
[21:50] <Randomskk> different weather data as in...?
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> OERNEN-II
[21:50] <Upu> its there
[21:50] <Upu> open dl fldigi
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[21:50] <Upu> click browse all
[21:50] <Upu> all payloads testing
[21:51] <Upu> find it, click it and then autoconfigure
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> that did work
[21:52] <Upu> so switch it on
[21:52] <Upu> receive it
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:52] <Upu> warn everyone first though
[21:52] <arko> Randomskk: DFS and DFS_HD
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> OK will do
[21:52] <Upu> if they see your payload on the map people may fall off chairs
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:52] <Randomskk> arko: you get a significant difference between the two of them?
[21:52] <daveake> I was about to ask if I should sit down first :)
[21:52] <Randomskk> everything else the same?
[21:53] <arko> 40 miles apart
[21:53] <arko> very bad
[21:53] <Randomskk> flight path look similar?
[21:53] <arko> try it yourself
[21:53] <arko> no they are not
[21:53] <arko> two different directions
[21:53] <arko> also 90 degrees apart
[21:53] <Randomskk> is this on habhub.org/predict ?
[21:53] <arko> yes
[21:53] <Randomskk> one second
[21:53] <arko> try the two different datas
[21:54] <Randomskk> please try again now
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> my dl-fldigi suggests me to update
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I built it like last month from the ubuntu instructions
[21:59] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=aedb336336047c427a3de4bf7eca4d0cdf2b10ad
[21:59] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4122f6d9aca06284a5d23e3b12c38ab5263c52ad
[21:59] <arko> cool
[21:59] <arko> thats much much better
[21:59] <Randomskk> yea that's more like what I'd expect
[22:00] <Randomskk> so I th ink there's an issue with it caching data for longer than it should
[22:00] <Randomskk> so it thinks it's using new data but is in fact lying and using old data
[22:00] <Randomskk> which is being worked on
[22:00] <Randomskk> (by DanielRichman)
[22:00] <Randomskk> (he is also working on everything else)
[22:00] <arko> awesome
[22:00] <arko> you guys update the git when you fix stuff usually>
[22:00] <arko> ?
[22:01] <Randomskk> always
[22:01] <Randomskk> the server deployment is from the git
[22:01] <Randomskk> well. the github repo, I should say
[22:01] <arko> awesome
[22:02] <arko> i will be buying a bunch of beer tonight and setting it up on my severs
[22:02] <arko> servers*
[22:02] <Randomskk> plural servers is probably overkill
[22:03] <Upu> you could just...use habhub :)
[22:03] <Randomskk> yea
[22:03] <Upu> it does the US you know
[22:03] <Randomskk> if anything we kinda encourage people to use the central one unless you have big reasons not to
[22:04] <arko> oh i want to use habhub but i dont want to bash it with so much stuff
[22:04] <arko> plus i want to script it
[22:04] <arko> so i can run different cases every hour
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[22:04] <Upu> thats the hourly predictor
[22:04] <arko> yeah
[22:04] <Upu> you will need to run that locally
[22:04] <Randomskk> it already exists as a thing, upu means
[22:04] <Randomskk> http://hourly.cusf.co.uk etc
[22:04] <Upu> that is wha I mean
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:05] <Upu> s/wha/what
[22:05] <arko> buti dont want to click every hour
[22:05] <Randomskk> ?
[22:05] <Randomskk> it runs automatically
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> on dl-fldigi next to the AFC button, what does the diamond mean?
[22:05] <Randomskk> every six hours (new weather data)
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> which is black, green and yellow
[22:05] <Randomskk> and calculates a prediction for every hour into the next week
[22:05] <Randomskk> and shows the locus of landing positions
[22:05] <Randomskk> for the upcoming week
[22:05] <Upu> actually yes what does the diamond mean in dl-fldigi ?
[22:05] <Upu> I wondered that too
[22:05] <arko> oh wow
[22:06] <arko> how do you even changethe launch location?
[22:06] <Upu> you amend a file
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[22:06] <Upu> then run it on a cron
[22:06] <Upu> it takes about 30 mins to run
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[22:06] <Upu> 4 times a day
[22:07] <arko> oh
[22:07] <arko> wonderful
[22:07] <Upu> as the GFS data comes out 4 times a day
[22:08] <arko> right
[22:08] <arko> where is the file?
[22:08] <arko> the git?
[22:08] <arko> sorry for the stupid questions
[22:09] <Upu> git clone https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction
[22:09] <Upu> let me get you my .bash_history from when I installed it
[22:09] <Upu> its not the easiest
[22:10] <arko> aweeesome
[22:10] <arko> that will run locally on the machine? or the cron will access the habhub server?
[22:10] <Randomskk> locally
[22:10] <Randomskk> won't touch habhub
[22:11] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/vvB2VySE
[22:11] <arko> awesome
[22:11] <arko> !
[22:11] <arko> this is exactly what i wanted
[22:12] Action: DanielRichman suggests Upu pastebins his crontab -l
[22:12] <arko> I'll be on here later drunk trying to install it
[22:12] <arko> :)
[22:12] <Upu> 0 */6 * * * /opt/cusf-landing-prediction/scripts/fetch-run-cronjob.sh
[22:13] <MrScienceMan> cat /etc/passwd
[22:13] <MrScienceMan> :P
[22:13] <arko> haha
[22:13] <Upu> there are two scenario files for added confusion
[22:13] <DanielRichman> ah yes that is a good point
[22:14] <Upu> its the /opt/cusf-landing-prediction/web/hourly-predictions/scenario-template.json
[22:15] <arko> wait what?
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[22:18] <Upu> when you install it
[22:18] <Upu> there are two scenario files
[22:19] <Upu> the one above is the one you edit to get the result you want arko
[22:19] <arko> the right one is in/opt/cusf-landing-prediction/web/hourly-predictions/scenario-template.json
[22:19] <arko> cool
[22:19] <arko> thanks
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, check spacenear
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> don't fall over
[22:21] <daveake> FMR
[22:21] Action: Upu checks the universe is still in balance
[22:21] <daveake> I need a taller screen though
[22:21] <Upu> amazing
[22:21] <arko> woah
[22:21] <Upu> awesome lunar
[22:22] <arko> crazy flight path
[22:22] <arko> :P
[22:22] <priyesh> i know where you live
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:22] <priyesh> etc, etc
[22:23] <priyesh> 16.6 C is a bit chilly
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> damn it's moving north
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> have to check if there are intruders in the garden
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[22:24] <daveake> lol
[22:24] <Upu> haha
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> back
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:26] <Upu> thats normal lunar
[22:26] <Upu> if you have it in dynamic model mode 6
[22:26] <Upu> which you do
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[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah it's drifting
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> see the temperature?
[22:28] <Upu> yep cold
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> some 14 deg C
[22:28] <Upu> is it in a box ?
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> at uni it lost acquisition when it reported around 13°C and already the signal is moving left on the waterfall
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yes styrofoam but the lid is a bit loose now
[22:29] <Upu> you will get some drift
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> and from below there is the camera opening
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:29] <Upu> thas normal as well
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> Checksum: GOOD :-)
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah just now there was a cut off sentence
[22:30] <Upu> lots of testing now Lunar
[22:30] <Upu> but congrats on getting it working
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[22:30] <Upu> afk a few
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> now he had one with Checksum: BAD
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> and the line was red
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> what does he do actually?
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, what's FMR btw?
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[22:37] <daveake> Er, it means I was pleased and surprised :p
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> is it normal that "sh" connects to a canonical server while we run dl-fldigi on ubuntu?
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, ?
[22:55] <DanielRichman> what
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> is it normal that "sh" connects to a canonical server while we run dl-fldigi on ubuntu?
[22:56] <DanielRichman> what exactly do you observe
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> when I run netstat -p, I can see dl-fldigi connected to habhub
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> and also sh listed as CLOSE_WAIT to "wildcard-launchpad-net.nutmeg.canonical.com"
[22:57] <DanielRichman> I suspect that they are unrelated. That's not unsurpising, canonical do some odd stuff
[22:58] <DanielRichman> it's worth noting that you trust them with your OS anyway so you probably shouldn't lose any sleep over them being evil
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> what do you mean?
[22:58] <DanielRichman> canonical make ubuntu, right?
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:59] <DanielRichman> it's probably nothing to worry about. maybe it's something to do with the thing that guesses if you make a typo
[22:59] <DanielRichman> or something like that
[22:59] <DanielRichman> IDK
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, does dl-fldigi make its own checksum and compares it with the one that was received?
[23:03] <DanielRichman> yes
[23:03] <DanielRichman> it uploads it anyway though
[23:04] <DanielRichman> sometime we might write something that fixes broken sentences
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:04] <DanielRichman> but currently habitat checks the checksum as well and discards wrong stuff
[23:04] <DanielRichman> etc.
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah I just remember that the 3D desktop crashed earlier and that "report a bug" stuff came up
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> maybe that came from that
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[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, thanks for the insight
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> when will OERNEN-II disappear from the map again?
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> is that a manual process?
[23:08] <Randomskk> yes
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:08] <daveake> It'll get cleared manually, before a flight or if you ask it to be cleared
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> can you leave it for a few minutes please?
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[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, if you are still there
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> <Upu> lots of testing now Lunar
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> which tests are next?
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[23:52] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/wbZkR.png
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 3 2012