highaltitude.log.20121101

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[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[01:05] <KF7FER> So am I the only one who thinks that Halloween is a holiday made for jokes in poor taste? I mean kids roaming the streets in search of candy.... what could be more wrong than that?
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[01:31] <KF7FER> Earlier I saw people sharing their tracker boards, here are a few pics of mine https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/miniTrackuino/RevI_Front.JPG https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/miniTrackuino/RevI_Back.JPG
[01:31] <KF7FER> and one with a external gps https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/miniTrackuino/RevI_S1315F.JPG
[01:32] <KF7FER> I'm hoping to do better next version :-)
[01:33] <KF7FER> Just to get an on-topic comment now and then
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[03:05] <heathkid> KF7FER: read your history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
[03:06] <KF7FER> well, somehow when I pictured children being dragged off to their doom it was... I dunno... happier? Maybe with more slavery?
[03:08] <KF7FER> frankly, as usual, I probably missed the point. Sorry
[03:09] <KF7FER> I guess I have to laugh when "don't take candy from strangers" only applies 364 days per year
[03:09] <heathkid> yea, think you missed the point
[03:10] <heathkid> and I've got access to Live X-Ray... so hah! :P
[03:11] <KF7FER> wouldn't be the first time. And good for you?
[03:11] <KF7FER> does that mean you have a lead suit? (the live x-ray thing and all)
[03:12] <heathkid> yea... but don't use it
[03:12] <heathkid> no leaks
[03:12] <KF7FER> don't want to live too long then?
[03:12] <heathkid> only use the lead shielding when I'm doing videos and such that take hours
[03:12] <heathkid> no leaks
[03:12] <KF7FER> bad joke, sorry.
[03:13] <KF7FER> it's kinda funny to watch the people in the Dr's office put on protective gear during an x-ray.
[03:13] <heathkid> yea
[03:13] <KF7FER> I understand their exposure over time is much worse, but at the time it just seems... off
[03:13] <heathkid> over time? how many x-rays do they perform?
[03:14] <heathkid> and the exposure they would receive in the next room is nothing
[03:14] <heathkid> more gamma just shooting through us all the time
[03:14] <KF7FER> sorry, dunno. Just guessing. Thinking of the US and all. Lots of patients per day
[03:14] <heathkid> the cosmic stuff
[03:14] <heathkid> plus the content of the soil...
[03:15] <heathkid> and the same tech jumps on an airplane for vacation and no worries... and exposed to more than "on the job"
[03:17] <heathkid> here in Indiana... I get about 10-15 CPM background
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[03:17] <heathkid> please don't ask me to convert that to Seiverts (sp?) or Rads, or whatever.... too tired tonight
[03:18] <heathkid> not counting alpha
[03:18] <heathkid> obviously
[03:20] <KF7FER> well it's just interesting to watch them don the gear and all - regardless of the conversion factors
[03:28] <heathkid> any new HAB launches?
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[07:44] <zyp> KF7FER, that rf trace on your board doesn't exactly look like an impedance controlled transmission line
[07:44] <zyp> :p
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[08:30] <SkyProbe> Hi everyone, glad to join the group
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[09:59] <moumou> morning
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[10:36] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/FuCj2.jpg
[10:38] <fsphil> armed an dangerous
[11:02] <costyn> Laurenceb_: what are you going to use them for?
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> not mine
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[11:07] <Laurenceb_> just an impressive collection of every stm32discovery board
[11:09] <cuddykid> anyone run a chase car computer here apart from daveake?
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[11:11] <fsphil> just a laptop here
[11:13] <nosebleedkt> today
[11:13] <nosebleedkt> i just don't have work
[11:13] <nosebleedkt> as soon as i get paid
[11:13] <nosebleedkt> that is fun!
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[16:23] <NavracWork> ok, I'll get the coal in
[16:24] <x-f> eh?
[16:26] <NavracWork> its an old old joke , about no one giving in and speaking first - after 5 hours of silence on the channel I thought I'd give in
[16:28] <fsphil> I've not heard that one
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone ever play with battery fuel gauge chips?
[16:29] <hibby> hehe. Maybe we're all *gasp* working today
[16:29] <fsphil> yes, working. that's it :)
[16:29] <daveake> ofc
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[16:29] <NavracWork> sadly yes - but its nearly 5 oclock and ~I've done enough
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[16:41] <costyn> I am indeed quite busy today
[16:41] <costyn> but it's been surprisingly quiet here yes
[16:43] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/jVzHd.jpg
[16:43] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
[16:43] <arko> HOW AMAZING IS THAT!
[16:44] <fsphil> curious
[16:44] <fsphil> but yes, that was worth pasting four times
[16:44] <costyn> arko: cool pic
[16:44] <fsphil> best one yet
[16:44] <costyn> amazingly sharp
[16:46] <arko> sorry, i got excited
[16:46] <chris_99> how have they done that? do they have multiple cameras on it?
[16:46] <fsphil> not surprised
[16:46] <UpuWork> that is very cool
[16:46] <arko> eroomde would agree
[16:46] <fsphil> one of the cameras on the arm I think
[16:47] <arko> chris_99: the MAHLI camera on the arm
[16:47] <UpuWork> chris_99 was taken by Opporunity
[16:47] <UpuWork> Opportunity
[16:47] <UpuWork> if it could fly
[16:47] <UpuWork> along way
[16:47] <fsphil> Robot Wars: Martian version
[16:47] Action: costyn misses the obligatory duckface on this self-portrait shot
[16:48] <costyn> fsphil: haha
[16:48] <arko> i hope one day the two can meet
[16:49] <arko> i know it wont ever happen
[16:49] <arko> but i hope far in the future when we do manned mars missions that they bring the two together
[16:49] <arko> maybe when im old i can see opportunity again
[16:52] <eroomde> arko: yes it is cool
[16:52] <eroomde> very
[16:52] <eroomde> it has made my day better
[16:52] <eroomde> my day was already good
[16:52] <arko> :)
[16:52] <x-f> would be cool if one day humans on Mars would find all landers and rovers and put them in a museum (on Mars)
[16:52] <eroomde> as i just got a really sexy bit of test equipment
[16:52] <arko> oh?
[16:53] <eroomde> it's a Rhode and Schwartz ZVL
[16:53] <arko> x-f: one day my friend it will happen
[16:53] <eroomde> which is a 9khz-13ghz network and spectrum analyser
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[16:53] <arko> SO
[16:53] <eroomde> and power meter
[16:53] <arko> JEALOUS
[16:53] <eroomde> it's really a delicious thing
[16:53] <eroomde> and it's field usable
[16:53] <eroomde> has built in batt
[16:53] <arko> i should ship you some of my smith chart stickers I make
[16:54] <eroomde> i should ship you some of the smith chart png's it put on my usb stick
[16:54] <arko> dude, that must be like +$20k
[16:54] <mattbrejza> eroomde: easy to use? :P
[16:54] <eroomde> arko: it's about $35k
[16:54] <eroomde> mattbrejza: yeah!
[16:54] <eroomde> surprisingly
[16:54] <arko> thats like a car
[16:54] <eroomde> yes
[16:54] <arko> want
[16:54] <mattbrejza> maybe theyve learned how to make a decent UI...
[16:54] <eroomde> we didn't pay for it
[16:54] <eroomde> because that would be madness
[16:54] <arko> haha
[16:54] <eroomde> and i'd rather put that money towards a wage for my friend who i want to join next year
[16:55] <hibby> eroomde: tasty. We've got similar in the workshop - one worker was complaining that all the test equipment he was using was worth about 4x his annual salary.
[16:55] <mattbrejza> meh $35k isnt bad for a network analyser
[16:55] <eroomde> it's very good for network + specan + power
[16:55] <eroomde> am impressed
[16:55] <eroomde> also the rep showed us the new high end sig-gen
[16:55] <eroomde> it's a terrifying piece of equipment
[16:56] <nick_> eroomde: R&S are coming here tomorrow
[16:56] <eroomde> it does sine (yup), triangle (yup), square(yup uhuh)
[16:56] <eroomde> gsm (oh!)
[16:56] <eroomde> 24gps satts at once all with correct ephermis (woah!)
[16:57] <eroomde> 4G LTE (fuck me!)
[16:57] <mattbrejza> did the calkit and cables set you back another $10k?
[16:57] <eroomde> calkit included
[16:57] <eroomde> this really cute little unit
[16:57] <eroomde> and we have some made-of-solid-money test coax cables anyway
[16:58] <eroomde> the unit we have also has nice field things like audio out
[16:58] <mattbrejza> 4G basestation or just siggen?
[16:58] <eroomde> so it's a very expensive fm radio receiver at the mo
[16:59] <mattbrejza> ive seen a 3G basestation piece of test gear
[16:59] <eroomde> no, just a siggen
[16:59] <hibby> I suspect in future, buying more normal coax might result in better performance
[16:59] <eroomde> to test stattions and so on
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[16:59] <hibby> £100 notes aren't known for their conductivity
[16:59] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[16:59] <Willdude123> Anyone want an IRCCloud invite?
[16:59] <eroomde> my irc is in the cloud
[17:00] <Willdude123> Ha. Ha. Ha.
[17:00] <hibby> irssi does all that for me
[17:00] <eroomde> yes
[17:00] <eroomde> same
[17:03] <Willdude123> How? Even when you are offline?
[17:03] <Willdude123> Cool.
[17:03] <eroomde> yes
[17:03] <eroomde> the technology to do this is decades old
[17:04] <eroomde> also did you know
[17:04] <eroomde> rhode and schwartz own hameg now
[17:04] <eroomde> and all the hameg stuff is built by R&S now at their facilities
[17:04] <hibby> eroomde: really?
[17:04] <eroomde> and there's some really nice stuff
[17:04] <hibby> that's interesting
[17:04] <eroomde> yeah
[17:04] <hibby> Willdude123: yah, stick irssi in screen, ssh into server and reconnect to screen
[17:04] <eroomde> we're in the market for a decent 4ch scope, 350mhzish bandwidth, 2.5gsps type thing
[17:05] <eroomde> tektronix will do you such a thing for about £7k
[17:05] <eroomde> the equivalent hameg is about 3.5k
[17:05] <hibby> lemme have a peek and see what we just had returned from repairs last week
[17:05] <arko> http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/liebergot-booster-r.jpg
[17:05] <arko> http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/10/apollo-flight-controller-101-every-console-explained/
[17:06] <eroomde> yeah i saw that article
[17:06] <eroomde> tis awesome
[17:06] <hibby> (we have a lot of Ku band kit floating about, being a ground station and producing VSAT stuff and all
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[17:07] <arko> tis
[17:07] <hibby> can't find it. Must have deleted that mail :/
[17:08] <eroomde> i need to properly sit down and read that article soon though
[17:08] <eroomde> just only had a chance to flick through at work
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[17:12] <arko> me too
[17:12] <eroomde> arko: so how's it going?
[17:12] <arko> good, midterms over
[17:12] <eroomde> fb suggested you've been having one of those work nights
[17:12] <eroomde> ah cool
[17:12] <arko> yeah
[17:12] <eroomde> go and have a drink :)
[17:12] <arko> finished a lab report
[17:12] <arko> going to drink away my memories tomorrow night
[17:12] <arko> hahaha
[17:12] <arko> yeo
[17:13] <arko> p
[17:13] <eroomde> i'm doing fpga stuff today
[17:13] <arko> <-- jealous
[17:13] <arko> what chip?
[17:13] <eroomde> more of a learning mountain than a learning curve
[17:13] <arko> ah
[17:13] <eroomde> just a spartan 3 with 500k gates
[17:13] <arko> nice
[17:13] <eroomde> the one on the papilio
[17:13] <arko> oh sweet, i have the same chip on a digilent
[17:13] <Randomskk> eroomde: did you see someone made a (basic) fpga out of 7400 logic
[17:13] <Randomskk> amazing
[17:14] <eroomde> Randomskk: yes
[17:14] <eroomde> it was nick on hackvana
[17:14] <eroomde> i've been talking to him about it for weeks :)
[17:14] <Randomskk> ah
[17:14] <Randomskk> nice
[17:14] <Randomskk> :P
[17:14] <Randomskk> clearly I should be on hv
[17:14] <arko> thats crazy
[17:14] <eroomde> arko: i'm still just learning. but implementing some rf stuff
[17:14] <eroomde> ranging tones between two boxes
[17:14] <eroomde> on the 5.8GHz active rfid band
[17:14] <arko> oh sweet
[17:15] <eroomde> just lifting gps techniques directly
[17:15] <eroomde> cos i know them and they're robust
[17:15] <arko> btw, we worked on this at our hackerspace http://wiki.032.la/nsl/Proxmark3_LCD
[17:15] <arko> rfid stuff with fpgas
[17:15] <eroomde> does jpl have a hackspace?
[17:15] <eroomde> 'm totally ignoring rfid stuff
[17:15] <arko> oh no, the hackerspace in downtown los angeles
[17:16] <eroomde> just taking advantage of the power and bandwidth allowance on 5.8G :D
[17:16] <arko> jpl is a hackerspace :P
[17:16] <arko> ohhh!
[17:16] <eroomde> i was gonna say!
[17:16] <eroomde> this is for measuring the distance bwteeen two units up to 4 or 5km
[17:16] <eroomde> to within 100m or so
[17:16] <arko> woah
[17:16] <arko> thats freakin awesome
[17:17] <arko> what is this called?
[17:17] <eroomde> we sell a product for these aerostats called helikites
[17:17] <arko> the technique
[17:17] <eroomde> they are basically moored airships
[17:17] <eroomde> used for all sorts of things
[17:17] <eroomde> butthe regs say they need some cutdown system should they detach from their moorings
[17:17] <eroomde> we used to us gps and create a little geofence that would trigger the hotsire cutdown if it wandered outside
[17:18] <arko> hah, nice
[17:18] <eroomde> but gps is getting a bit mullered in the last couple of years by gps jammers used by truckers, and military customers also do annoying jamming things
[17:18] <arko> how do you get an accurate position when the devices are so close?
[17:18] <eroomde> so we're now designing a system whereby you have one box on the ground by the anchor, one on the aircraft, and range betwee them
[17:18] <eroomde> just time of flight
[17:18] <arko> oh ok
[17:19] <eroomde> but it's sending a very specific pseudorandom sequence
[17:19] <arko> nothing to decode?
[17:19] <arko> oh
[17:19] <arko> neat
[17:19] <eroomde> this is the bit i copied from gps
[17:19] <arko> what res does that even give you?
[17:19] <arko> smart
[17:19] <eroomde> which correlates with itself very strongly when you have perfect alignment, and not at all with a slight misallignment
[17:20] <eroomde> so i can get a correlation value to within about 0.1 chips
[17:20] <eroomde> and if my chip rate is 1.023mhz (it is) then that's a resultion of a few 10s of meters
[17:20] <eroomde> resolution*
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[17:21] <eroomde> the other realisation is that there's probably a market for direction-finding gps jamming sources
[17:21] <eroomde> but that's a different story
[17:22] <eroomde> would be nice to crack down on gps jammers. it's seriously not cool
[17:22] <eroomde> truckers who install them should be killed with death
[17:22] <arko> it's really that big of a problem out there?
[17:22] <arko> i thought no one did that
[17:22] <eroomde> increasingly yes
[17:23] <eroomde> you'd be surprised
[17:23] <arko> it
[17:23] <arko> it's a federal crime here
[17:23] <eroomde> truckers have statrted buying these horrible jammers from hong kong
[17:23] <eroomde> it james their black boxes
[17:23] <arko> why would they jam gps?
[17:23] <eroomde> so they can speed or drive longer hours and so make more money, or whatever
[17:23] <arko> wow
[17:23] <arko> thats stupid
[17:23] <eroomde> yes
[17:23] <eroomde> it's seriously not cool
[17:24] <arko> >_> lame
[17:24] <arko> well
[17:24] <arko> not much you can do unless you equip law enforcement
[17:24] <nick_> I remember hearing that a number of random systems can be made to fall over by jamming GPS
[17:24] <Randomskk> there was a great whitepaper form the gov about that nick_
[17:24] <Randomskk> loooads of things
[17:25] <arko> oh
[17:25] <eroomde> the other thing i'm learning them for right now is to interface to the gps rf front end chip, which spits out digital samples of a downmixed signal with an IF of about 4mhz, and also talked to the inertial measurment unit, and packs all this data nicely into some flash chips
[17:25] <nick_> Because systems you wouldn't expect to have GPS use it as a simple way to set the clock.
[17:25] <arko> i know that paper
[17:25] <arko> brb
[17:25] <Randomskk> like ATMs
[17:25] <arko> http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~dbrumley/courses/18487-f12/readings/Nov28_GPS.pdf
[17:25] <arko> hmm thats not it
[17:25] <arko> nvm
[17:26] <arko> but thats a good one
[17:27] <arko> worth a read
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[17:27] <eroomde> yes i was thinking about a direction finding unit that you could seel to police
[17:27] <eroomde> sell*
[17:27] <arko> if it becomes a big enough problem you might have too :p
[17:28] <nick_> I've been tempted to drive around with a GPS jammer just so people get lost.
[17:28] <eroomde> it would be 4 patch antennas, 4 rf front ends, and an fpga
[17:28] <eroomde> all in the same kind of size format as a radar gun
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[17:33] <arko> man that sounds like such a fun project
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[17:40] <KF7FER> zyp: yeah, I know... one of the many mistakes. That's why I came here to improve.
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[17:54] <m0psi> hi, anyone can help with an sick gps? ublox6
[17:54] <eroomde> as is the universal law of irc, just ask the question
[17:54] <m0psi> ok :-)
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[17:55] <m0psi> i ran up the test script that generates all gps output, ran it, all good
[17:55] <m0psi> then...
[17:55] <m0psi> i wanted to turn off irrelevant stuff
[17:56] <m0psi> and used the following:
[17:56] <m0psi> / Turning off all GPS NMEA strings apart from GPGGA on the uBlox modules
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,GLL,0,0,0,0*5C\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,ZDA,0,0,0,0*44\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,VTG,0,0,0,0*5E\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,GSV,0,0,0,0*59\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,GSA,0,0,0,0*4E\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> Serial.print("$PUBX,40,RMC,0,0,0,0*47\r\n");
[17:56] <m0psi> changed it to read gps.print etc
[17:56] <eroomde> pastebin.com good for dumping chunks of text
[17:57] <eroomde> as an asside, but carry on
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[17:57] <m0psi> cos i was using pins 4 & 5 on the arduino
[17:58] <m0psi> that did not work, so, I thought (in the absence of ref for addressing the gps), that the number '40' was magical, and it should be 41, as is in the existing text in the working code, to set baud rate
[17:59] <m0psi> so, i changed the 40's to 41's
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[17:59] <m0psi> after that, i get a failed response from the gps:
[17:59] <m0psi> B562624240FFFF63000010270050FA0FA06402C10000000000000016DC * Reading ACK response: (FAILED!)
[17:59] <m0psi> i turned him off/on
[17:59] <m0psi> still the same problem
[18:00] <m0psi> using the non-modified original program now
[18:00] <m0psi> still no joy
[18:00] <m0psi> this is the one I'm using
[18:00] <m0psi> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
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[18:00] <m0psi> (checking pastebin.com ...)
[18:01] <m0psi> so, now a bit stuck
[18:01] <m0psi> is it possible that i've upset the gps, and need to reset it
[18:01] <m0psi> rather than just powercycle?
[18:03] <m0psi> the other part of the same question; I've tried to find syntax of addressing the gps on it's datasheet, but nothing there. A pointer would be useful please.
[18:05] <KF7FER> m0psi: Have you looked at the Receiver Description and Protocol Spec manual at http://www.u-blox.com/de/gps-modules/pvt-modules/max-6.html?
[18:06] <m0psi> looking now kf7fer
[18:06] <m0psi> ta
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[18:19] <eroomde> arko: the antenna design i'm looking at for something was invented by jpl
[18:19] <eroomde> which is cool
[18:20] <eroomde> the choke ring antenna
[18:20] <eroomde> thems are some clever peeps
[18:23] <arko> heh, yeah the people here are pretty smart
[18:24] <arko> its nice to be the dumbest person in the room almost all the time
[18:25] <arko> ohh
[18:25] <arko> is this the antennas they use on differencial gps?
[18:26] <eroomde> yeah
[18:27] <eroomde> very good at rejecting multipath and getting accurate phase measurements
[18:27] <eroomde> so also useful for radar altimeters :)
[18:27] <eroomde> our hovering rocket is gonna get one sexy sexy diy radar altimeter
[18:27] <arko> :O
[18:27] <eroomde> using similar principles to this new cutdown rangefinder box
[18:28] <eroomde> infact it was playing with altimeter ideas that made is realise we could do something like that to get round the gps issue on the blimp cutdowns
[18:28] <eroomde> made us*
[18:28] <arko> wow this is antenna design is pretty sweet
[18:28] <eroomde> the maths on these chocke ringe antennas is pathological though
[18:28] <eroomde> annoyingly
[18:28] <eroomde> was wondering if you could 3D print them
[18:28] <arko> haha
[18:29] <arko> i was just thinking of cnc'ing one
[18:29] <arko> you could use a metal 3d printer too
[18:29] <eroomde> depends on the depth and width of the gaps between the rings
[18:29] <arko> just need a cad
[18:30] <arko> so cool
[18:30] <arko> also engrave the Leica logo for lulz
[18:32] <arko> man, your company must have a lot of money or something
[18:32] <arko> these aren't cheap
[18:32] <arko> if you get me a cad, I will mill it for you btw
[18:32] <eroomde> what isn't cheap?
[18:32] <eroomde> and no we don't :)
[18:32] <arko> the atenna
[18:32] <eroomde> oh, we'd be making one for sure
[18:32] <eroomde> we have a cnc mill
[18:32] <arko> haha
[18:33] <eroomde> our annual turnover is probably JPL's pencil budget
[18:33] <arko> should have assumed that
[18:33] <arko> man i need to find a better job here
[18:33] <eroomde> especially if they're space rated pencils
[18:33] <arko> lol
[18:34] <eroomde> work for a small comapny
[18:34] <eroomde> it's easier
[18:34] <eroomde> you get to do more
[18:34] <eroomde> and it's much easier to be a 'senior engineer'
[18:34] <eroomde> and get treated as an equal by senior engineers in organisations of 5000 people
[18:34] <eroomde> it's all gaming the system really
[18:35] <arko> yeah
[18:35] <arko> soon as im done with school
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[18:35] <eroomde> also as a small company with a few good people it's much easier to get a reputation as being A Good Thing
[18:35] <eroomde> who does innovated stuff for very low costs
[18:35] <eroomde> as overheads seems to have a greater than linear sclaing with organisation size
[18:35] <eroomde> in both money and time it takes to do things
[18:35] <arko> very true
[18:36] <eroomde> i think it's because the ammount of communication required scales factorially
[18:36] <arko> i use to work for a smaller company a while back
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> and more importantly, permission,
[18:36] <eroomde> yes
[18:36] <arko> got to do a lot of cool stuff, but they ended up wanting more time
[18:36] <arko> though i was in school
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> fewer people to say what you can't do.
[18:36] <arko> so i had to come back here
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[18:36] <eroomde> you can run our US office :)
[18:37] <arko> ok1
[18:37] <arko> ok!*
[18:37] <eroomde> which we might have to set up to do space things in the US
[18:37] <eroomde> especially if with agencies
[18:37] <arko> :D
[18:37] <arko> you've got an employee here then
[18:38] <eroomde> who knows
[18:38] <eroomde> roll on jan visit
[18:38] <arko> oh yeah
[18:38] <arko> we'll go drinking
[18:38] <eroomde> which i must ask you about soon
[18:38] <arko> more important
[18:38] <eroomde> mmm
[18:38] <eroomde> i can do that
[18:39] <arko> yeah, just let me know the times and we can organize a tour
[18:39] <eroomde> cool
[18:39] <eroomde> am holding off just right now so i can finish some stuff here so i can guarantee i have something to show TR
[18:40] <arko> haha, you setup a meeting with him?
[18:40] <eroomde> want to yeah
[18:40] <arko> nice
[18:40] <eroomde> tour + meeting would be the ideal thing :)
[18:41] <eroomde> or at least a quick ten mins with some hardware and some pics on my ipad
[18:41] <eroomde> that's all i need
[18:41] <arko> ohhh
[18:41] <eroomde> he said he'd show me around last year at the aiaa conf. so i will hold him to it :)
[18:41] <arko> that might violate the rules on my end
[18:41] <arko> err jpls
[18:41] <eroomde> sure
[18:41] <eroomde> i'll mail him direct
[18:41] <eroomde> see what happens
[18:41] <arko> yeah
[18:42] <arko> the rules on tours are somewhat strict
[18:42] <arko> business is treated very differently
[18:42] <eroomde> yeah i can imagine
[18:42] <eroomde> well, not even just imagine, have done stuff with nasa before
[18:43] <arko> :)
[18:43] <eroomde> life is easier with small companies :)
[18:44] <eroomde> at another conference my friend and i, when still students, were taken under the wing of andrew nelson who is xcor's coo
[18:44] <eroomde> he introduced us to everyone
[18:44] <eroomde> and then was like 'so.... when're u visiting? next month? I hope you like steak!'
[18:44] <arko> nice!
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> awesome
[18:44] <arko> sickkk
[18:44] <eroomde> he was like some kind of ghost of christmas present
[18:44] <arko> hahaha
[18:45] <eroomde> happiest man i've ever met
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> commercial space is finally gettongmsomewjere useful
[18:45] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone have a good handheld yagi receiving antenna they recommend?
[18:45] <eroomde> yeah
[18:45] <arko> Diamond antennas are nice
[18:46] <arko> oh crap
[18:46] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: the arrow antenna that amsat push is quite nice too
[18:46] <eroomde> dual 2m and 70cm
[18:46] <eroomde> with a nice handle
[18:46] <eroomde> and inscrewing elements for storage
[18:46] <eroomde> unscrewing*
[18:48] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
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[19:27] <gonzo_p> the guy who makes the arrow ants is a biy
[19:28] <gonzo_p> bit of an automation junkie
[19:28] <gonzo_p> bespoke machines for every operation to make them
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pgmetalshop.com/platinum-pt/platinum-pt-wire-microwire-fine/0-0006mm-diameter-99-90-platinum-wire.html
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> volumetric ally most expensive item in the world?
[20:19] <DrLuke> that's some really fine wire
[20:20] <arko> srsly
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> 10cm of 600nm wire
[20:20] <arko> super thin
[20:20] <arko> what do you need that for?
[20:21] <DrLuke> probably some scientific applications
[20:21] <arko> whats a good rope cut off wire?
[20:21] <arko> nicrom?
[20:22] <arko> nichrome*
[20:22] <eroomde> not pt :)
[20:22] <eroomde> nichrome is good yep
[20:23] <eroomde> copper nickel titanium works too
[20:23] <arko> hahaha
[20:23] <eroomde> be careful how you write the abbreviation
[20:23] <arko> platnum wirecut off because we are the 1%
[20:23] <eroomde> but i use 0.375 nichrome for the blimp cutdowns
[20:24] <arko> oh cool
[20:24] <arko> abbreviation?
[20:24] <eroomde> it's about the watts/m^2
[20:24] <eroomde> CuNiTi
[20:24] <eroomde> remeber the first 'i'
[20:24] <arko> hahahaha
[20:25] <arko> way
[20:25] <arko> ya*
[20:25] <eroomde> i forget the W/m^2 value you want on your nichrome
[20:26] <eroomde> i have it on a spreadsheet at work
[20:26] <eroomde> but there's a decent value to get it nice and melty but not nadger the mechanical properties of the wire
[20:27] <eroomde> i bought some pt1000 sensors today. they are quite pricey too
[20:28] <eroomde> ohwell bll
[20:29] <Laurenceb> thaat reminds me
[20:29] <arko> cool
[20:29] <Laurenceb> i want to make some platinum H2 sensors
[20:30] <Laurenceb> it ends up a lot cheaper than that
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[20:31] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of PtCl2
[20:31] <Laurenceb> then "black Pt" coating
[20:31] <Laurenceb> with the right current density its highly porous giving increased reactivity
[20:33] <Laurenceb> then stick it on the surface of the skin in a plaster and drink a H2 fizzy drink
[20:33] <Laurenceb> and you can monitor metabolism
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[20:34] <edmoore> arko:
[20:35] <edmoore> I am in the pub but just remembered the value to aim for
[20:35] <edmoore> 90kW/m^2
[20:35] <edmoore> Surface area of wire and power dissipated in the wire
[20:36] <Laurenceb> hahahaha
[20:36] <arko> hahaha
[20:36] <arko> booze!
[20:36] <Laurenceb> just watching the apprentice
[20:36] <arko> miracles
[20:36] <edmoore> It helps me think
[20:36] <Laurenceb> they called their team platinum
[20:36] <Laurenceb> epic facepalm
[20:36] <Laurenceb> they need someone to walk onto that show and punch them all the the face
[20:37] <arko> me too
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> I think munching Mr sugar in the face gets you fired.
[20:37] <arko> it helps me program :D
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> punching
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> though that too
[20:38] <arko> i wish we had pubs here
[20:38] <edmoore> Right back to drink
[20:38] <edmoore> Bbl
[20:38] <edmoore> X
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:10] <arko> evening
[21:11] <arko> well afternoon for me
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[21:18] <Upu> ping navrac
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> do you happen to know gnuplot?
[21:18] <Upu> evening Lunar
[21:18] <Upu> gno sorry
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:18] <daveake> gnor me
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> I almost have what I want but it doesn't understand the transition from one day to another
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:34] <jcoxon> anyone watching operation iceberg bbc2?
[21:36] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: have a look at python and matplotlib
[21:36] <eroomde> specifically pandas
[21:36] <eroomde> pandas is very good at handling time series data
[21:37] <eroomde> especially in arbitrary formats like mins/hours/days
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> did you receive what I just said?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> i use pandas
[21:40] <Laurenceb> i usually put them in my FedEx parcels
[21:40] <Laurenceb> ensures they arrive on time
[21:40] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: how can i answer that?
[21:40] <eroomde> think
[21:41] <fsphil> this is a weird moment to join the channel :)
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I just checked zeusbot
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the suggestion eroomde
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> what I wanted to say
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> the third duration test was successful
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> the payload ran for about 20 hours, then started to measure strange values, rebooted and then worked again
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> for a total of 38 h
[21:41] <eroomde> cool
[21:41] <eroomde> nice
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> but like in the first night, the radio reception just stopped
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> and when I found the payload the wind apperantly had pushed it on the side and off the box it was sitting on
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> but when I checked the cameras, that did not happen until after dl-fldigi stopped receiving it
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> and I don't know why
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> looks like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1324964/
[21:55] <jcoxon> ping navrac
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> any ideas?
[21:56] <Upu> also after him jcoxon
[21:56] <Upu> probably for the same thing :)
[21:56] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: is that a direct copy and paste from fldigi?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:57] <eroomde> no editing at all?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I just selected the last lines that were complete
[21:58] <eroomde> how big is your string buffer?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I set it to 400
[21:59] <daveake> 400 bytes
[21:59] <eroomde> ok
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> the same string btw is also saved on the SD
[21:59] <daveake> So it's not that :)
[21:59] <eroomde> well
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> and on the SD, all the strings have been saved
[21:59] <eroomde> the lines are each 100 chars long
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> and in the august duration tests, we also received all the strings
[21:59] <eroomde> and there are 4 of them which work fine
[21:59] <eroomde> then it goes wrong
[21:59] <eroomde> hmm
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> well it works OK well before that
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> let me check
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> as you see it goes wrong on line 2015
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> had been running for 6.5 h at that time
[22:00] <eroomde> is that repeatable?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> according to the camera images it had not tipped over at that time yet
[22:00] <eroomde> can you manually set it to say 2010 and see if it still breaks at 2015?
[22:01] <eroomde> and looking at your paste, what happens after line 9?
[22:01] <eroomde> does it keep cutting off the first few chars every 4 messages?
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> well the whole fldigi log is 94 pages long
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> it works OK for those first 2014 lines
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:02] <eroomde> can you paste from 2010 to say 2100 please?
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1324988/
[22:03] <eroomde> and it's all fine before that?
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, occasionally missing a character or so but usually fine
[22:04] <daveake> how much time between sentences?
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> approx 10 seconds
[22:05] <eroomde> er
[22:05] <daveake> wow
[22:05] <eroomde> how long *exactly*
[22:05] <eroomde> and what is the tx format
[22:05] <eroomde> 7 or 8 bits?
[22:05] <eroomde> ascii?
[22:05] <eroomde> start and stop bits?
[22:06] <daveake> Erm ... you have ~10 seconds from the one sentence to another. How much is the *gap* *between* sentences?
[22:06] <eroomde> cos (100chars/50baud)*8bits = 16s
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah it's at 300 baud
[22:06] <eroomde> ah right
[22:06] <eroomde> ok
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> 7 bits ascii
[22:06] <daveake> so about 3 seconds data and 7 seconds carrier?
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> but wait
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know why it does that
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> I don't have delays or so in the program
[22:07] <daveake> Well you do
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> stop bits is 1
[22:08] <daveake> Your program is doing /something/ for 7 seconds ... getting GPS, reading sensors ... something
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:09] <daveake> Anyway, my point is that fldigi won't frequency-track the carrier, so if the Tx frequency is drifting then you will lose characters at the start of a sentence
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> dang!
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> of course!
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> like that AFC can't like keep track of it anymore?
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> and when a person would have to turn the dial
[22:11] <daveake> Yes
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> I am just scanning it
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> temperature drops all the time
[22:11] <daveake> which may happen if you're getting cold air into the payload container
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> the inside one I mean
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> when it happened the inside temp was down to 15°C and dropping
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> when it ended it was at about 13°C
[22:12] <daveake> I prefer to send continuously. In my code there's just a very short delay whilst it sprintf's the next sentence
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[22:12] <eroomde> yeah maybe send the letter 'U' constantly between messages
[22:12] <daveake> Makes life easier for fldigi
[22:12] <eroomde> see if that helps
[22:13] <daveake> Well he can't, as he's sending in the loop and that's where he spends 7 seconds getting data (I assume)
[22:13] <daveake> if he was sending from a timer int then easy peasy
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> what part of the code can tell how much time passes?
[22:15] <daveake> Well you can print the time (from millis()), to a debug port, or to SD, before and after any piece of code
[22:15] <daveake> But at a guess you've got several DS18B20's and you've got them set to 12-bit resolution
[22:15] <daveake> Do I win a prize?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> I got one, yes
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> I use the DS18B20 readout part from jcoxon's ATLAS 3
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[22:17] <daveake> That's about a second right there, if it's set to the highest resolution
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> I also have a BMP085 and a HIH-4030 and my battery voltage divider
[22:18] <daveake> Measure them
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:19] <daveake> The GPS will take about 1 second probably (well, depends how you're doing it)
[22:19] <daveake> Added up you've got 7 seconds, which is a bit excessive
[22:20] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: try this just for fun
[22:20] <eroomde> add
[22:21] <eroomde> 'UUUUUUUUUU' to the front of each message
[22:21] <eroomde> eg
[22:21] <eroomde> UUUUUUUUUU$$OERNEN etc
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> what will it do?
[22:21] <jonsowman> help pronounciation
[22:22] <eroomde> well
[22:22] <eroomde> U is, in binary, 01010101
[22:22] <eroomde> so that gives a nice strong clear regular signal for fldigi to lock onto
[22:22] <eroomde> and then it should have locked on by the time you get to $$
[22:23] <eroomde> assuming this is the cause of the problem
[22:23] <eroomde> but it might not be given it apparently works fine for a while first
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> maybe temperature drift could be the problem
[22:24] <eroomde> do you notice freq drift in fldigi during the test?
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> well the tests in august were indoors
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> and I didn't watch fldigi because I went home after about string 630
[22:26] <daveake> record the audio next time
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> it does record in WAV, right?
[22:27] <daveake> yes
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> hm ok
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> that will be a big file afterwards
[22:28] <daveake> Not really
[22:28] <daveake> Do it
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks eroomde and daveake
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> eroomde, what would be a good way to send out U?
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> for the transmission as such I took Upu's tutorial code
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> with the RTTY definitions and so on
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[22:54] <navrac> reping upu
[22:55] <Upu> oh evening navrac
[22:55] <navrac> sorry was in the pub when you pinged
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[23:11] <Lunar_Lander_> hello Dan-K2VOL
[23:12] <navrac> ping jcoxon
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[23:16] <edmozley> Evening all :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[23:17] <edmozley> I am having some problems installing drivers on my XP machine from Zadig - the error I get is:
[23:17] <edmozley> installer_x86 entry point not found
[23:18] <jonsowman> ##rtlsdr
[23:18] <edmozley> I looked online and it does seem to be a known issue but there was no obvious solution
[23:20] <jcoxon> navrac, got your 250baud working
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 2 2012