highaltitude.log.20121030

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[00:41] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "[UKHAS] Re: HackHD"
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[05:12] <KF7FER> Hey all! I'm real new, so my apologies for being an idiot. It was suggested to me that I come here and hang out and put the design of my latest APRS tracker for review. Anybody got some time to kill?
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[05:30] <natrium42> hey KF7FER
[05:30] <KF7FER> Hey! How's it going? quiet tonight?
[05:32] <x-f> welcome, KF7FER
[05:32] <KF7FER> thanks x-f
[05:35] <x-f> i know nothing about APRS, but it's mentioned here quite often so feel free to hang around, you'll get answers to your questions
[05:36] <KF7FER> ok, thanks. I guess being the typical ignorant American I assumed that everybody doing HAB work was using APRS but I guess that's not an option in some parts of the world.
[05:37] <x-f> yeah, in UK APRS cannot be used airborne
[05:37] <x-f> i think my country has no APRS infrastructure at all
[05:38] <x-f> but here are a fair amount of Americans, too
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[05:40] <KF7FER> seems like a shame. Is an amazing resource, especially at altitude. I'm on the West coast in Oregon and the Eastern part of the state is pretty sparcely populated but there is a pretty good infrastructure - I was able to track a payload until less than 1,000' above ground via APRS. We only lost packets when we got closer to the ground (but luckily we were close enough to pickup the packets directly)
[05:40] <KF7FER> I am amazed at the low power boards some of the UK guys are doing - I hate having the 5v HX1 hanging around my neck
[05:41] <KF7FER> especially M0UPU has done some really cool stuff with a single AA battery. Almost makes up for no APRS
[05:43] <x-f> M0UPU is Upu here, he's a great guy, he takes this hobby very seriously :)
[05:45] <KF7FER> ah, ok, thanks. He has been very friendly and helpful and I can imagine :-) And he does some great work. What I've seen him do and share as been an inspiration and has caused me to do some of my best work yet.
[05:46] <Darkside> pff
[05:46] <Darkside> we have APRS in australia
[05:47] <Darkside> but we only use it as a secondary tracking system
[05:47] <Darkside> 70cm RTTY is our primary
[05:48] <KF7FER> Seems like 70cm is pretty much unused in the US. Is it really that much better?
[05:48] <KF7FER> and Darkside, didn't you teach Upu all he knew?
[05:49] <KF7FER> well, at least about PCB design :-)
[05:50] <Darkside> lol
[05:50] <Darkside> well i kept on criticising his designs
[05:50] <Darkside> until he made them better
[05:50] <Darkside> and i did the first tiny tracker :P
[05:50] <Darkside> the micronut
[05:50] <Darkside> i just haven't had time to make anything to beat his pAva board yet though
[05:51] <KF7FER> nothing like a little abuse to drive a guy to improve his work.
[05:51] <Darkside> lol
[05:51] <Darkside> anyway, the RTTY stuff does have better range
[05:51] <Darkside> though it requires people to actively receive stuff
[05:51] <KF7FER> and wow, I'd bow to your greatness if I could. You've done some excellent work as well. I've even looked closely at you work as well.
[05:51] <KF7FER> and that's better range with less power, correct?
[05:51] <Darkside> APRS is nice as it's passive
[05:52] <Darkside> yes
[05:52] <KF7FER> so could I ask you to look at a board I designed and tell me what you think?
[05:52] <Darkside> but with APRS you can't get higher update rates like youcan with RTTY, as you need to avoid congesting the network
[05:52] <Darkside> sure, but not right now
[05:52] <Darkside> as i'm about to head home from work
[05:52] <Darkside> back later
[05:53] <KF7FER> no rush. If you'd like I can send you a link now and I'll hang around (well, I don't expect anything within the next day)
[05:54] <KF7FER> so just in case - and for anybody else around - the link is https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8240668/RC2_1028.brd
[05:54] <KF7FER> would love any comments (besides those insulting my dress or my general appearance - I know it's not good)
[05:54] <KF7FER> hang around as in try and be here for the next few days :-)
[05:55] <KF7FER> btw, I'd think higher rates would result is shorter transmissions which would be better for the network, or am I simply showing my ignorance and missing something?
[05:56] <KF7FER> or wait... you're talking about payload updates, right?
[05:56] <KF7FER> thought you were talking baud rate
[06:11] Nick change: Nabobalis -> zz_Nabobalis
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[07:06] <Darkside> KF7FER: that looks incredibly familiar
[07:06] <Darkside> hoooooold on
[07:06] <Darkside> KF7FER: are you VK3YT?
[07:07] <KF7FER> LOL no, but I'm building the board for him.
[07:07] <Darkside> pff
[07:07] <KF7FER> sorry, I'm KF7FER as advertised
[07:07] <Darkside> youknocked off my design!
[07:07] <Darkside> grr
[07:07] <Darkside> VK3YT asked me for micronut board
[07:07] <KF7FER> well... kinda? I looked and everything that made sense I did. Is that bad?
[07:07] <Darkside> and i turned him down
[07:07] <Darkside> lol
[07:08] <Darkside> ok, well resonators are bad
[07:08] <Darkside> run the entire board at 3.3v, not 5V
[07:08] <Darkside> so you don't have all the level conversion crap
[07:08] <Darkside> and then you just need a single supply rail
[07:08] <KF7FER> what about the HX1?
[07:08] <KF7FER> it needs 5v?
[07:08] <KF7FER> I agree so far btw
[07:08] <Darkside> oh wait, this for a HX1
[07:08] <Darkside> run that off a separate regulator
[07:09] <Darkside> APRS with the HX1 works best with a 3.3v PWM drive into the TXD pin
[07:09] <KF7FER> would it be ok to do a pair of DC/DC converters, or am I asking too much?
[07:09] <Darkside> i'd try and not put DC/DC converters on there at all
[07:09] <Darkside> just drop down from 6V
[07:09] <Darkside> 4x AAs
[07:10] <KF7FER> not what I wanted to hear - everybody wants to run off of 2xAA
[07:10] <Upu> morning Brad
[07:10] <Darkside> KF7FER: i'm sure they do
[07:10] <KF7FER> hey Upu
[07:11] <Upu> welcome to IRC :)
[07:11] <KF7FER> thanks :-)
[07:11] <Upu> Darkside is the man for PCB critique :)
[07:11] <Upu> taught me everything I know :)
[07:11] <KF7FER> Upu: so I hear
[07:12] <Darkside> anyway, i was a bit annoyed by VK3YT asking straight away for a micronut board
[07:12] <KF7FER> Darkside: my current design actually uses a standard LDO but I've had a number of SAR people who want a tracker for assets and don't have the same power limitations of HAB use
[07:12] <KF7FER> I didn't know he did that. Right now I actually sell an APRS tracker on eBay. He bought a "kit" version of my board and asked me to design him a variation that used a ublox
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[07:13] <Darkside> KF7FER: ahh
[07:13] <KF7FER> I'm certainly not as good as you guys but my work is much better as a result
[07:13] <Darkside> but anyway, i don't like resonators
[07:13] <KF7FER> ok, I'll switch that.
[07:13] <Darkside> run the ATMega at 3.3V, and 8MHz
[07:13] <Darkside> and provide a separate supply for the HX1
[07:13] <KF7FER> so I can do my own boost converter you mean?
[07:14] <Darkside> well use whateve you want
[07:14] <Darkside> but you need 3.3v and 5V from somewhere
[07:14] <KF7FER> ok, thanks
[07:14] <Darkside> we either drop down from a higher voltage, or boost up
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[07:14] <KF7FER> did I do ok on trace length and that sort of thing?
[07:15] <oh7lzb> KF7FER: Have to insert my standard advertisement: If you do APRS telemetry, please look at this spec: http://he.fi/doc/aprs-base91-comment-telemetry.txt
[07:15] <Darkside> KF7FER: are you using a ground plane?
[07:15] <Darkside> i mean, ground planes
[07:15] <Darkside> im not sure how to get eagle to show those, if they exist
[07:15] <KF7FER> on both sides, yes
[07:15] <Darkside> ok
[07:15] <KF7FER> I just "rats nest"
[07:15] <Darkside> aha
[07:16] <Darkside> thanks
[07:16] <Darkside> i use altium designer
[07:16] <KF7FER> I was going to ask about vias on the ground around the HX1 RF In. Do you think that's needed?
[07:16] <Darkside> perhaps
[07:16] <KF7FER> and oh7lzb: I'll take a look, thanks
[07:16] <Darkside> KF7FER: see my PM
[07:17] <oh7lzb> KF7FER: It allows you to transmit higher-resolution telemetry in very little space together with each position
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[07:17] <nosebleedkt> hello !
[07:23] <Upu> morning nosebleedkt
[07:23] <Upu> hye Brad this is just an APRS transmitter isn't it ?
[07:32] <KF7FER> yes, it is.
[07:32] <KF7FER> sorry I'm a bit... unfocused
[07:34] <Upu> no problems
[07:34] <KF7FER> getting a bit late for this of us on the left-coast
[07:34] <Upu> 2am ?
[07:34] <Upu> oh left
[07:35] <Upu> midnight
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[07:37] <KF7FER> yeah, the typical wet side of the US. Not too bad really.
[07:40] <KF7FER> Upu: so did you get a look at the board I posted? any comments?
[07:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Australian HAB tracking & recovery opportunity"
[07:40] <Upu> subtle changes over the original design
[07:41] <Upu> note the backup batter on the GPS
[07:41] <Upu> rechargable
[07:41] <Upu> I'll have a good look later, about to head off to work
[07:42] <KF7FER> no problem. Thanks
[07:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Justin Maynard "[UKHAS] Australian HAB tracking & recovery opportunity"
[07:42] <Upu> oh there it is
[07:43] <Upu> I released that 10 mins ago
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[09:37] <number10> too early for that
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[11:07] <cuddykid> Upu: don't fancy a trip to Oz then ?! ;)
[11:08] <UpuWork> A-Team job
[11:09] <cuddykid> haha
[11:09] <cuddykid> if only I had the time and they would pay for a roundtrip :P
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[13:34] <Darkside> >England gets bad weather.
[13:34] <Darkside> >We complain for a little bit over a pint.
[13:34] <Darkside> >USA gets bad weather.
[13:34] <Darkside> >Everyone starts dying and entire country is crippled.
[13:35] <eroomde> wait till it snows in england
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[13:38] <fsphil> the wrong kind of snow especially
[13:39] <fsphil> looks like next week is getting mightly chilly
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[13:42] <m0psi> hi all. Is the UAVA balloon about to launch?
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[13:43] <UpuWork> hmm ?
[13:43] <m0psi> I see it on spacenear.us
[13:43] <UpuWork> no thats just Dave testing trackers
[13:43] <UpuWork> date is yesterday :)
[13:43] <m0psi> ok, does he live near there?
[13:44] <UpuWork> pretty much under the balloon
[13:44] <m0psi> :-)
[13:44] <UpuWork> I'll clear it down
[13:44] <m0psi> no date set yet ?
[13:45] <UpuWork> http://hourly.upuaut.net/
[13:45] <UpuWork> --------/\
[13:45] <UpuWork> right afk a few
[13:46] <m0psi> oh dear :-)
[13:47] <m0psi> no having much luck are you sir! :-)
[13:47] <m0psi> mind you , 6th nov look good
[13:47] <m0psi> you'll get the cambridge boys looking up to spot the bang!
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[14:03] <Laurenceb__> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/thumbgallery.php?t=1290963&do=threadgallery&page=2
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[15:11] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/30/scream_in_space/
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> CUSF involved?
[15:11] <Randomskk> "involved"?
[15:11] <Randomskk> In December, CUSF will be blasting a Google Android phone into orbit as part of the STRaND-1 nanosatellite payload. The plan is to "test the capabilities of a smartphone to control a satellite in space".
[15:12] <Randomskk> does that sound involved to you? :P
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[15:12] <Laurenceb__> are you actually doing any work tho?
[15:12] <Randomskk> haha oh god no, we just wrote a stupid app and made that website
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> or are sstl handling it all
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> hehe
[15:12] <Randomskk> sstl are doing all the cubesat design
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> i thought as much
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[15:12] <Randomskk> talk to me about it in person one day
[15:12] <Randomskk> didn't you work for SSTL once?
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> yes
[15:13] <Randomskk> maybe you can imagine what I'd say, then
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> thats why i know
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> how they operate
[15:13] <Randomskk> good good
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> its also one of the reasons i left
[15:14] <Laurenceb__> "I'm no physicist but surely the screaming being played through the phone's speaker will cause the phone itself to vibrate and thus make the microphone vibrate as wel"
[15:14] <Laurenceb__> hehe
[15:15] <Laurenceb__> "here's another experiment-
[15:15] <Laurenceb__> Give me a £20 note, and see if I can make it disappear.
[15:15] <Laurenceb__> Look! It's gone.
[15:15] <Laurenceb__> Let's see if I can do it again- give me another twenty..."
[15:15] <Laurenceb__> comments are genius
[15:15] <Randomskk> you should see some of the other ones we've had
[15:15] <Randomskk> amazing
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[15:30] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
[15:30] <Laurenceb__> also funny
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[15:33] <staylo> keerist that's hideous
[15:34] <daveake> Wonder whast mapping it's using
[15:34] <Laurenceb__> the comments are hilarious
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[15:36] <SpeedEvil> more seriously on the phone thing.
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> gps(?)+ gyro+mag+cam+clock = decent attitude and position solution,
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> a whole earth map with few hundred m resolution should enable you to get your orbit damn precisely
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> even lacking GPS
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> also fun - unidirectional WiFi.
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> 80w or so into a 2.5m dish should get you reception at 200km
[15:42] <Randomskk> well perhaps you should have submitted an app idea :P
[15:42] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: in theory yes - in practice the round trip times due to speed of light concerns exceed protocol timeouts
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> unidirectional
[15:42] <Randomskk> oh, well
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[15:42] <Randomskk> I guess? you have to modify all the protocol stacks so much at that oin tit's not really wifi?
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> you need 100m or so to get downlink
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> unless you have an antenna on the top end better than stock
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> which also implies pointing
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> I guess simple time + magnetometer let you pull out a fair number of orbital parameters, even with no other sensors
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[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL> afternoon upu
[16:08] <UpuWork> oh heyDan
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[16:16] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[16:18] <fsphil> you still this side of the pond Dan-K2VOL?
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> hi phil! nah, I'm back over the other side finally, I ended up being there about a month though!
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> how are your projects?
[16:20] <fsphil> progressing slowly, lack of time as usual :)
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[16:28] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: are you survivng the weather?
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> hi eroomde, I'm fortunately in kentucky, so not a problem
[16:28] <eroomde> ah right
[16:28] <eroomde> fine
[16:30] <eroomde> i wish one could compile python
[16:30] <Randomskk> careful what you wish for
[16:30] <staylo> I was going to do a joke about google hits for 'fortunately in kentucky', but then I googled 'fortunately in wales' and thought better of it
[16:30] <eroomde> so quick to write, so slow to run
[16:31] <Randomskk> try pypy :P
[16:31] <eroomde> oh yeah!
[16:31] <eroomde> oh how interesting
[16:31] <eroomde> that will be a fun thing to try
[16:31] <eroomde> i am reinstalling brew
[16:31] <eroomde> and uninstalling enthought
[16:31] <Randomskk> ew enthought
[16:31] <eroomde> and installing python via brew
[16:31] <Randomskk> never been a huge fan of enthought
[16:31] <Randomskk> interesting via brew
[16:31] <eroomde> but need new xcode first
[16:31] <Randomskk> ah
[16:31] <Randomskk> macs
[16:31] <Randomskk> enjoy that
[16:31] <eroomde> yes
[16:32] <eroomde> well, brew to install python
[16:32] <eroomde> then pip for everything else
[16:32] <eroomde> but yes i will grab pypy and give it a whirl
[16:32] <Randomskk> virtualenvs are also nice
[16:32] <Randomskk> but check out pythonbrew maybe
[16:32] <Randomskk> it's like rvm is for ruby, if you've used that
[16:32] <Randomskk> meh though if you only ever need one version of python, brew is probably fine
[16:33] <Randomskk> rvm is the neatest way to install ruby
[16:33] <eroomde> yeah i was/am not sure if i ever wanted to get into the whole virtualenv thing
[16:33] <eroomde> i can understand if you're a sysadmin with a bunch of webapps al on different servers or something
[16:33] <Randomskk> I think it's very useful for self contained projects and servers and things
[16:33] <Randomskk> habitat definitely needs it
[16:33] <eroomde> but for me it's just a scripting thing for scipy and glue logic, really
[16:33] <Randomskk> I think it's quite a big waste of time for playing around with bits and pieces
[16:34] <eroomde> it's just my swiss army knife
[16:34] <Randomskk> I usually introduce it once a projecty thing is working and might need to be packaged or someone else needs to use it
[16:34] <Randomskk> well mainly it's just having a requirements.txt file that lists your deps
[16:34] <eroomde> i can still use virtualenv though in the future, as i underatand it?
[16:34] <Randomskk> yes
[16:34] <eroomde> within some specific project folder
[16:34] <Randomskk> indeed
[16:34] <eroomde> fine
[16:34] <eroomde> job's a good'n then
[16:35] <Randomskk> indeed
[16:38] <eroomde> if anything pypy seems a little slower!
[16:39] <Randomskk> curious
[16:39] <eroomde> the script is basically reading a 65M line file line by line, doing some string processing, and appending a byte to an open file
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[16:39] <Randomskk> are you doing lots of slow things like function calling and dict access?
[16:39] <eroomde> so it might be you don't get much speedup in file io
[16:39] <Randomskk> yea possibly
[16:39] <Randomskk> I wonder what part of that is particularly slow
[16:39] <Randomskk> possibly no part of it :P
[16:39] <eroomde> i will profile it
[16:39] <eroomde> maybe
[16:39] <Randomskk> profile before optimising etc
[16:39] <Randomskk> there are some good things for that now
[16:39] <Randomskk> uhm
[16:40] <eroomde> %prun in ipython is all i've used
[16:40] <eroomde> it was gd
[16:40] <eroomde> though some sexy graphical thing could be fun
[16:40] <eroomde> if such a thing exists
[16:40] <Randomskk> cProfile and RunSnakeRun are apparently good
[16:41] <Randomskk> it's been a little while since I properly profiled python stuff but it was nice and gave me pretty call graphs
[16:42] <Randomskk> https://plus.google.com/115212051037621986145/posts/HajXHPGN752
[16:42] <eroomde> it's a bit unnerving when rm -rf takes longer than you're expecting
[16:42] <Randomskk> yes, always, it really is
[16:42] <Randomskk> but yea, runsnakerun is a graphical viewer for cprofile stuff
[16:42] <Randomskk> so maybe check that out
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[16:46] <dannywill> Hi, anybody there?
[16:46] <jonsowman> many, many people
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[16:47] <dannywill> Good. I'm new here and (very) new to HABing looking for a little help/advice
[16:47] <jonsowman> are you in the UK?
[16:47] <dannywill> I am - Sheffield
[16:47] <jonsowman> if so, please read http://ukhas.org.uk
[16:47] <Randomskk> jonsowman: ooi where would you link if the answer was no? :P
[16:47] <UpuWork> hi dannywill
[16:48] <UpuWork> my neck of the woods
[16:48] <dannywill> I have browsed pretty much the entire site over the last few weeks. It has being very helpfull
[16:48] <dannywill> Where are you UouWork?
[16:48] <jonsowman> Randomskk: I'd shout APRS and leave
[16:48] <Randomskk> jonsowman: haha
[16:48] <dannywill> I don't understand?
[16:48] <UpuWork> Halifax
[16:49] <dannywill> Yes, not far at all.
[16:49] <dannywill> What does APRS mean?
[16:49] <jonsowman> don't worry
[16:49] Nick change: Cadair_away -> Cadair
[16:49] <jonsowman> just do as I suggested
[16:49] <jonsowman> and then come back with questions
[16:49] <UpuWork> advanced packet reporting system I think
[16:49] <UpuWork> not used in the UK
[16:49] <Randomskk> amateur? anyway though yea
[16:49] <Randomskk> APRS is a thing they can use in other countries
[16:49] <Randomskk> but regardless, hi
[16:50] <UpuWork> you can use it in the UK just not in the air or if you don't have a license
[16:50] <jonsowman> which turns out to be a bit of an issue for HABs
[16:50] <UpuWork> anyway welcome aboard, the answer to your first 58 questions will be "its on the wiki" probably :)
[16:50] <dannywill> HaHa. I have read the wiki.
[16:50] <UpuWork> so got any ideas what you want to achieve then ?
[16:51] <eroomde> 2 stone and generally feel better about myself
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[16:51] <eroomde> oh wait, wrong window
[16:51] <jonsowman> good to know
[16:51] <UpuWork> lol
[16:52] <dannywill> Me and a friend are trying to achieve near-space photography for a modest budget. - Similar to space.1337arts.com
[16:52] <UpuWork> well you have 2 options : a) Easymode (TM) see if you can catch a flight on someone elses balloon
[16:53] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[16:53] <eroomde> if you stay <500g and avoid pointy bits, you can usually find a willing flight share
[16:53] <UpuWork> b) make your own tracker and rejoice in the knowledge you've made something
[16:54] <dannywill> We are most definitely looking at option B! It's the fun of the project we are looking for
[16:54] <eroomde> deck the halls
[16:54] <eroomde> welcome dannywill
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[16:55] <jonsowman> :)
[16:55] <eroomde> usually it's 'nah can't be bothered with any of that 'soldering or 'software' or whatever you call it'
[16:55] <eroomde> usually in terms of responses. if you look at flights, they're 95% with trackers
[16:56] <eroomde> usually people willing to make a tracker (not actually that hard, a lot of fun to learn) are also the ones to see it through to a successful flight
[16:56] <daveake> or "I want to do my own tracker but need to launch next wek can I have source codez and tracker plz"
[16:57] <eroomde> or
[16:57] <dannywill> Well, that's the thing. We want to try and achieve the flight with off-the-shelf parts. We are very impressed by : space.1337arts.com
[16:57] <UpuWork> "space pix naaaaaaawwwww"
[16:58] <eroomde> 2what is the public perception of the decision on whether or not to build your own tracker? because i need to justify whether or not i build my own tracker"
[16:58] <UpuWork> lol
[16:58] <UpuWork> don't worry dannywill
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[16:58] <jonsowman> lol ed
[16:58] <UpuWork> some of us are a little jaded
[16:58] <daveake> and some a lot
[16:58] <daveake> well Ed is
[16:58] <daveake> :D
[16:58] <dannywill> We are in no rush to launch. Would prefer to take time doing the proper research and get it right (i.e. retrieve the payload...hopefully)
[16:58] <UpuWork> right enough of this space shinanigans
[16:58] <UpuWork> Tescos!
[16:58] <UpuWork> afk
[16:59] <Randomskk> dannywill: pretty much that does mean making your own tracker rather than sticking together off the shelf parts, however
[16:59] Action: UpuWork predicts eroomde just fell of his chair
[16:59] Action: daveake did
[16:59] <UpuWork> really afk now
[16:59] <Randomskk> what space.1337arts.com did is most likely down to luck more than preparedness when it comes to actually finding the thing afterwards
[16:59] <eroomde> dannywill: sorry yes. there is a touch of world weariness here, from felix-effect waves of new people wanted to launch a balloon and launch it tomorrow and not accepting our answers if we suggest they might have to do some work themselves
[17:00] <Randomskk> basically their thing landed somewhere that the phone had coverage
[17:00] <Randomskk> which is lucky
[17:00] <eroomde> but yes, we're very pro a radio tracker rather than just an off the shelf gsm tracker. a lot of the time, gsm trackers do not got signal when they're right on the ground, having landed in a field or whwtever
[17:00] <dannywill> I feel like I am being made fun off a little - But I'm fine with that. That's what newbies are for! I do however have to leave. I will be back - Be warned! LOL.
[17:00] <eroomde> no not you!
[17:00] <eroomde> you're a good one
[17:00] <eroomde> you can stay
[17:00] <Randomskk> honestly not you, you're being held in high esteem compared to a lot of recent newcomers :P
[17:00] <jonsowman> it's true
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[17:00] <daveake> dannywill - no, the fun is being taken of people diametrically opposite what you appear to be :)
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[17:01] <daveake> wah
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[17:01] <Randomskk> he said he'd be back :P
[17:01] <daveake> oh missed that :)
[17:01] <eroomde> 'brew doctor' always finds something
[17:01] <eroomde> like a project supervisor
[17:02] <eroomde> just feels it has to find something about which to complain
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[17:05] <eroomde> Randomskk: a nice thing if one has the $$
[17:06] <eroomde> a fast linux and windows vm on my mba
[17:06] <eroomde> want bigg hdds - the xilinx tools expand to 15GB
[17:06] <eroomde> cad programs similarly big
[17:06] <eroomde> running it all on the mba impractical
[17:06] <jonsowman> what size is the SSD in yours?
[17:06] <eroomde> 128GB
[17:06] <jonsowman> not too bad
[17:06] <eroomde> 3/4 i have already used
[17:06] <Randomskk> I just have like, my desktop
[17:06] <Randomskk> with a proper keyboard and mouse
[17:06] <Randomskk> probably what I want for xilinx and cad
[17:06] <Randomskk> and it has lots of cores, disk, ram
[17:07] <eroomde> well, the mba has a decently fast cpu
[17:07] Nick change: Nabobalis -> zz_Nabobalis
[17:07] <eroomde> and a decent amount of ram
[17:07] <eroomde> this i am less bothered by
[17:07] <eroomde> it's super fast by standards of a while ago
[17:07] <eroomde> but the storage is an issue
[17:07] <jonsowman> can you replace the SSDs int hose?
[17:07] <eroomde> the happy solution is
[17:07] <eroomde> thunderbolt is 10Gbps - faster than the latest Sata!
[17:08] <eroomde> can run an external 512GB ssd through a thunderbolt external enclosure
[17:08] <eroomde> and it'll likely be even faster than the inbuilt ssd
[17:08] <Randomskk> neat
[17:08] <Randomskk> thunderbolt is very fast
[17:08] <eroomde> can give each vm 100GB have have plenty of room left over for fast access to large datasets
[17:08] <eroomde> like gps sampled files
[17:09] <Randomskk> not sure how likely the ssd is to saturate that
[17:09] <Randomskk> that is a nice thing
[17:09] <Randomskk> sadly my mba doesn't have thunderbolt :P
[17:09] <eroomde> i want this on a laptop specifically because of field work
[17:09] <Randomskk> makes sense
[17:10] <eroomde> i have to be on irc now
[17:10] <eroomde> since clearing out homebrew i have lost EVERYTHING
[17:10] <eroomde> i had to edit my path in nano just now
[17:10] <Randomskk> the horror
[17:10] <eroomde> no python, no octave, no vim, i feel naked
[17:11] <fsphil> no vim!!1
[17:11] <fsphil> you may as well just go home
[17:11] <eroomde> yeah i know
[17:11] <eroomde> it's just me an my terminal
[17:12] <eroomde> and waiting for xcode to get something that brew wants
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[17:16] <Willdude123> Is PIE1 going to be launched soon?
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[17:21] <daveake> With recent predictions ... no idea
[17:21] <daveake> Just testing atm
[17:22] <Willdude123> How heavy is the payload?
[17:22] <daveake> No idea
[17:22] <daveake> Not decided what exactly will go in it yet
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[17:49] <eroomde> python building
[17:49] <eroomde> amazing how many libs you need to compile the standard libs
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[17:56] <Randomskk> seriously
[17:56] <Randomskk> and how long all the tests take to run
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[18:32] <eroomde> having to build numpy manually on 10.7
[18:32] <eroomde> oh, osx
[18:32] <eroomde> why
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[18:33] <Randomskk> enjoy that
[18:33] <Randomskk> I think you'd have been better off with a ubuntu VM
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[18:33] <Randomskk> and then aptitude install python-numpy
[18:33] <Randomskk> quicker anyway :P
[18:33] <eroomde> thanks
[18:33] <Randomskk> any time
[18:33] <eroomde> my desktop is ubuntu and indeed that's what i do
[18:33] <eroomde> but
[18:33] <eroomde> alas not yet
[18:33] <eroomde> till i get the thunderbolt external vm drive of awesome
[18:34] <Randomskk> so it turns out, 4f10 is indeed hard
[18:34] <Randomskk> sigh
[18:34] <eroomde> lol
[18:34] <eroomde> well
[18:34] <eroomde> don;t say i didn;t warn you
[18:34] <Randomskk> indeed
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[19:40] <arko> someone should launch a hab in NY
[19:40] <arko> see where it ends up
[19:40] <fsphil> pretty certain it would land in water
[19:40] <arko> simulate!
[19:46] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=da1e0c0270d04a8aa007f84d17ccd15b93bdfbe6
[19:46] <arko> b
[19:46] <arko> s
[19:48] <arko> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a0872bb0c91c455831fe4ecfc41a2127c6fae010
[19:48] <arko> seems more likely
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[20:22] <Upu> anyone got the link to the site that sent a proper sonde up with a normal payload ?
[20:24] <x-f> http://stsproject.net/
[20:24] <Upu> super thx
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[20:25] <x-f> np
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[20:47] <eroomde> arko: yo
[20:50] <arko> sup dude
[20:53] <eroomde> seeing as you ask
[20:53] <eroomde> disinfecting my mac for enthought python
[20:53] <eroomde> and rebuilding everything python from source
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[20:56] <arko> hooray!
[20:56] <arko> what a pain that must be
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[20:57] <eroomde> yes it is a bit
[20:57] <eroomde> by enthought was being more painful
[20:57] <eroomde> install its own versions of libs that were higher up my $PATH and messing up builds
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[21:01] <eroomde> and infact it works
[21:02] <eroomde> numpy, scipy, matplotlib, ipython
[21:02] <eroomde> all working
[21:02] <eroomde> not as painful as it could have been
[21:02] <eroomde> well anyway that is yawny chat
[21:02] <eroomde> how are you arko?
[21:02] <arko> haha
[21:02] <arko> im good
[21:02] <arko> busy studying for midterms
[21:02] <arko> took work off because theres just too much to review
[21:03] <eroomde> i know the feeling
[21:04] <eroomde> i have a memory that you were doing an fpga seminar recently?
[21:04] <arko> yeah
[21:04] <arko> turns out they moved the times
[21:04] <arko> so i couldn't make it
[21:04] <arko> the conference call to join wasn't working either
[21:04] <arko> ugg
[21:04] <eroomde> oh buttocks
[21:05] <arko> yeah exactly
[21:07] <eroomde> we did a successful rocket testfiring today
[21:07] <arko> oh snap
[21:07] <eroomde> first time we've lit this new engine up
[21:07] <arko> video?
[21:07] <eroomde> not yet
[21:07] <arko> cool
[21:07] <eroomde> we were too keen to get to the pub
[21:07] <arko> what type of engine?
[21:07] <eroomde> it's an experimental engine, but not in an interesting way from an engine pov
[21:07] <arko> ah
[21:08] <arko> nice, congrats
[21:08] <eroomde> it's just a big copper engine designed to test propellent combos that could be synthesised on mars
[21:08] <eroomde> for sample return
[21:08] <eroomde> so CO and NH4 and other things
[21:08] <arko> :D
[21:09] <eroomde> we did CO + O2 this eve
[21:09] <eroomde> gorgeous blue flame
[21:10] <arko> :) nice
[21:10] <arko> you have a cool job
[21:10] <arko> im jelly
[21:13] <eroomde> i spent a lot of time also having python problems
[21:13] <eroomde> if it makes any difference
[21:13] <eroomde> trying to make dull data munging scripts work
[21:13] <arko> haha
[21:13] <arko> it's the sad side of engineering no one tells kids about
[21:13] <arko> so when we grow up we find out that it's not all just testing and fire
[21:13] <eroomde> yep!
[21:14] <arko> ok, back to studying for me
[21:14] <daveake> there's smoke too
[21:14] <eroomde> ttyl
[21:14] <arko> laters!
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[21:16] <eroomde> Randomskk: so i installed pypy through my rebuilt homebrew, instead of manually. it's gone from taking 4mins to munge the 650Mb file to 1m22s
[21:17] <Randomskk> wow
[21:18] <Randomskk> interesting
[21:18] <Randomskk> what were you doing wrong manually? :P
[21:18] <eroomde> no idea!
[21:18] <eroomde> it was a binary
[21:18] <eroomde> perhaps just compiled for smthing else
[21:18] <Randomskk> huh yea,; maybe
[21:18] <Randomskk> or without enough optimisations
[21:19] <Randomskk> I just spent bloody ages deriving parameter update rules for expectation maximalisation for some ridicuous synthetic mixture model
[21:19] <Randomskk> but it bloody got the right answer
[21:19] <Randomskk> and for some stupid reason the right answer is the same as the update rule for the mean of a gaussian mixture model. sigh.
[21:19] <Randomskk> even though the distribution is wildly different and most of the inbetween steps are different too
[21:20] <Randomskk> oh well
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[21:21] <eroomde> so here's a fun thing
[21:21] <eroomde> time python -c "sum(xrange(1000000000))"
[21:22] <eroomde> hmm it crashed
[21:22] <Randomskk> hmmm I wonder why that could possibly be
[21:22] <eroomde> 15s
[21:22] <eroomde> time pypy -c "sum(xrange(1000000000))"
[21:22] <eroomde> 1.8s
[21:23] <Randomskk> pypy is just magically faster
[21:23] <Randomskk> it's obscene
[21:23] <eroomde> yep
[21:23] <eroomde> loops and iterators are the bomb
[21:23] <Randomskk> it compiles later and the compiler is written in python
[21:23] <Randomskk> yet it beats the shit out of the earlier-compoling C interpreter
[21:23] <Randomskk> magic
[21:24] <eroomde> isn't it
[21:24] <Randomskk> oh huh, they're fundraising for stm/py3k/numpy in pypy
[21:25] <Randomskk> serious numbers
[21:25] <eroomde> if only i had some monies
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[21:27] <Randomskk> oh uh
[21:27] <Randomskk> last time I looked pypy was better in "most" areas vs python
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:27] <Randomskk> vs cpython anyway
[21:27] <Randomskk> but now
[21:28] <Randomskk> it's way better in every single test
[21:28] <eroomde> i'm impressed so far
[21:28] <eroomde> can you do fallover interobangs?
[21:28] <eroomde> eg
[21:29] <eroomde> #!/usr/bin/pypy
[21:29] <eroomde> failing that
[21:29] <eroomde> #!/usr/bin/python
[21:29] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:29] <Randomskk> not generally I don't think
[21:29] <eroomde> poobums
[21:31] <Randomskk> you can use /usr/bin/env python, but I guess pypy never 'replaces' python like that
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[21:37] <eroomde> how is 4yp Randomskk?
[21:38] <Randomskk> oh god.
[21:38] <Randomskk> well I haven't seen my supervisor since the second day of term
[21:38] <eroomde> :s
[21:38] <eroomde> what week is it/
[21:38] <Randomskk> tuesday week 4
[21:38] <Randomskk> but I mean, I have two supervisors
[21:39] <Randomskk> one is the CUED guy who is basically responsible for signing things
[21:39] <Randomskk> and the other is the peron in bio who is meant to be doing more of the advising
[21:39] <Randomskk> it's the former I haven't seen for ages
[21:39] <eroomde> not so bad then
[21:39] <Randomskk> yea
[21:39] <Randomskk> the latter I haven't seen for like, two weeks though
[21:39] <Randomskk> but whatever
[21:39] <Randomskk> I'm researching stuff
[21:39] <Randomskk> and finding out lots
[21:39] <Randomskk> and making plans?
[21:40] <Randomskk> mostly it just looks like this is a hard problem to do at scale but at least people have done lots of work on various bits of various things involved
[21:41] <Randomskk> I feel like I should be spending more time on it
[21:41] <eroomde> mmm
[21:41] <eroomde> it's easy to get that way
[21:41] <Randomskk> wish I could get with writing some code
[21:41] <Randomskk> looks like I'll need to implement most of the crunchy bits in OpenCL
[21:43] <eroomde> that'll be fun at least
[21:43] <Randomskk> yea...
[21:44] <Randomskk> mostlyI have just made pretty things in pages
[21:44] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z17imbvwiwohgli/plan.pdf
[21:45] <Randomskk> and writing in that project notebook you saw.
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[21:47] <eroomde> :)
[21:48] <Randomskk> did you see that project I linked you to that was doing that superresolution sdr df?
[21:49] <Randomskk> apparently it is working, but takes like two hours to compute a set of steering phases
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[21:49] <Randomskk> apparently as well the array is self calibrating though
[21:50] <eroomde> no?
[21:50] <eroomde> link me up
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[21:50] <Randomskk> http://tg319.user.srcf.net/work/proposal-tg319.pdf
[21:51] <Randomskk> mature compsci undergrad at wolfson
[21:51] <Randomskk> for his part ii
[21:54] <eroomde> interesting
[21:54] <eroomde> and a gantt chart
[21:54] <Randomskk> yes. I think that was a format requirement
[21:54] <Randomskk> especially given as it appears to be entirely linear
[21:55] <Randomskk> but yea. pretty similar
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[22:17] <Laurenceb__> lol gantt charts
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 31 2012