highaltitude.log.20121027

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[00:51] <RG-lz1dev> im wondering
[00:51] <RG-lz1dev> why is actual burst altitude higher than the predicted one
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> how do you mean?
[00:53] <RG-lz1dev> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:flight_data
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> the models of balloons are not good
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> or rather, the balloons can't read their data sheets
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> and fail to burst at the specified diameter
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[01:12] <RG-lz1dev> many variables
[01:13] <RG-lz1dev> im wondernig if the balloon exert pressure on the contets
[01:13] <RG-lz1dev> the balloon get much higher until the gas expands beyond the burst diameter
[01:14] <RG-lz1dev> cool
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[01:23] <heathkid> so, what's up in the air right now?
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> RG-lz1dev: the balloons have various nonelastic yeikd strength, just before burst
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> RG-lz1dev: these compress the gas, making it not able to rise.
[01:24] <heathkid> has anyone put a strain gauge on one to see when and where it actually bursts?
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[01:25] <SpeedEvil> if the buoyancy is not enough to exceed the reduction in buoyancy due to that, then you get a float
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> not yet
[01:27] <heathkid> I would think with a strain gauge and an active pressure release valve... a higher altitude could be achieved before burst. Thoughts?
[01:28] <heathkid> or would there be such a decrease in lift it wouldn't matter?
[01:28] <RG-lz1dev> with a lighther payload, you can afford to vent some of the gas
[01:28] <RG-lz1dev> theoretically you could get higher
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> not quite
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> below a certain volume of gas, you get a floater
[01:29] <heathkid> would you consider sacrificing a balloon as ballast? Say use multiple balloons and as they reach altitude... decrease pressure and "drop" a balloon?
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> you want one that approaches float at its burst altitude
[01:29] <heathkid> to achieve a higher float?
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> doesn't do that
[01:30] <heathkid> how much does a 1500g balloon cost?
[01:31] <Burninate> dropping a balloon doesn't help you
[01:31] <Burninate> venting a little helium does
[01:31] <heathkid> can't find pricing on the Kaymonts...
[01:32] <Burninate> well.. I guess it helps a little
[01:32] <Burninate> How long does the latex last in the hard UV?
[01:33] <Burninate> and the near-vacuum, for that matter
[01:34] <RG-lz1dev> are there any alternatives to totex balloons?
[01:37] <mattbrejza> hoywee
[01:37] <heathkid> hello mattbrejza
[01:39] <RG-lz1dev> mattbrejza: i mean the material
[01:39] <mattbrejza> oh
[01:39] <mattbrejza> foil for picos
[01:39] <RG-lz1dev> larger
[01:39] <mattbrejza> mila or something for super pressure
[01:40] <mattbrejza> or howeve ryou spell that
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> Mylar
[01:41] <mattbrejza> spelling doesnt happen at almost 3am
[01:41] <mattbrejza> and after alcohol
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[01:42] <heathkid> Mylar doesn't really stretch that much
[01:42] <heathkid> not good for high altitude from what I've read
[01:42] <mattbrejza> yea thats the idea of super pressure
[01:42] <heathkid> no experience here on my part
[01:43] <mattbrejza> latex is the only 'standard' equal pressure balloon material (that i know of)
[01:44] <heathkid> spray a latex balloon with liquid mylar spray?
[01:44] <heathkid> :)
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[02:13] <navrac> its quiet here
[02:14] <SpeedEvil> most are asleep
[02:14] <SpeedEvil> or, in my case grocery shopping
[02:15] <navrac> my wife has taken upsnoring tonight, so I've run away downstairs for a hot chocolate and to read a datasheet
[02:15] <SpeedEvil> noise canelling headphones
[02:16] <navrac> i didnt think of that - i wonder where mine went
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[02:31] <diu> hihi
[02:31] <SpeedEvil> The first bantha to appear on-screen was in the original 1977 Star Wars. Computer-generated imagery was not used to create the creature. Rather, an elephant was dressed in a costume of fur and fake horns.
[02:31] <SpeedEvil> err
[02:31] <SpeedEvil> hi
[02:31] <diu> does anyone know how to export the data from the tracking software?
[02:32] <diu> into a text file or to matlab?
[02:32] <diu> anyone knows?
[02:32] <RG-lz1dev> can you be more specific, which tracking software?
[02:32] <heathkid> where is PICOBUZZ 2?
[02:33] <heathkid> the timestamp is way off...
[02:33] <heathkid> in the water on on the ground?
[02:33] <heathkid> or still floating?
[02:33] <diu> dl-fldigi in HAB mode
[02:34] <diu> its like, i am testing the on board devices using Arduino
[02:35] <diu> i can get the data from the transmitter but i dunno how to export the data to my computer
[02:35] <heathkid> does anyone have a price list for the Kaymonts?
[02:36] <navrac> well there is http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/ but it is showing as off line
[02:36] <diu> i had the 500 g balloon it was like $30
[02:36] <navrac> and picobuzz2 is presumed lost at sea
[02:36] <diu> anyone knows it?
[02:36] <heathkid> I'm wanting either the 1200g or 1500g for a start...
[02:37] <diu> i can only read the data cant export it
[02:37] <heathkid> I still have no idea how to send data to these sites for tracking
[02:37] <diu> yeah, same here
[02:37] <diu> anyone pro?
[02:37] <navrac> on the hab version it automatically uploads to habitat
[02:37] <heathkid> is it a secret?
[02:38] <diu> why is it automatic?
[02:38] <heathkid> what hab version?
[02:38] <navrac> http://habitat.habhub.org/
[02:39] <navrac> when you start fldigi in hab mode (-h) it uploads to the habitat server
[02:39] <navrac> so we normally download our data from there
[02:40] <diu> ok, is it possible to get the data back to my computer?
[02:40] <diu> not just the graph or patth on the map?
[02:40] <diu> *path
[02:41] <diu> how to download it
[02:41] <RG-lz1dev> diu: http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[02:41] <RG-lz1dev> but its is down at the momment
[02:41] <diu> ok
[02:41] <diu> thank you guys
[02:42] <navrac> the hab version can be found at
[02:42] <navrac> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[02:45] <heathkid> is there a list of rules and regulations for a HAB launch in the US?
[02:45] <heathkid> I know the FCC stuff for my ham radio gear...
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[02:50] <Guest10590> hello everyone
[02:51] <navrac> morning ( or whatever time it is for you) guest10590
[02:51] <Guest10590> im in sydney
[02:52] <heathkid> that's a ways away from me
[02:52] <heathkid> lots of friends in Perth though
[02:52] <Guest10590> im new to this HAB community and am currently trying to launch one with my colleagues
[02:53] <Lunar_Lander> Guest10590, Darkside is from Australia too
[02:53] <Guest10590> cool
[02:53] <navrac> i misread that - I thought you said you wanted to launch one of my colleagues
[02:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[02:53] <heathkid> that would be so much easier with the telemetry!
[02:54] <heathkid> "It's getting really cold!"
[02:54] <Guest10590> haha
[02:54] <Guest10590> are you guys familiar with the uBLOX MAX-6Q gps chip?
[02:54] <navrac> yes
[02:54] <navrac> quite familiar anyway
[02:55] <heathkid> I have two on the way with the helical antenna...
[02:55] <Guest10590> thats the one i have
[02:55] <navrac> good chip
[02:55] <heathkid> I'm a bit upset I can't get the pinout
[02:55] <Guest10590> i am having problems with it though
[02:55] <heathkid> seller keeps sending me the pinouts for another GPS module
[02:56] <navrac> whats the problem - my problem is I keep losing them in the north sea or over europe
[02:56] <Guest10590> haha
[02:56] <navrac> 6 launches - 1 recovery
[02:56] <Guest10590> im using it with this code
[02:56] <Guest10590> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[02:56] <navrac> ok
[02:57] <heathkid> anyone have the pinout for this one??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/260942939957
[02:57] <Guest10590> and im abel to get the data from it no problems, i am able to parse the data into a string
[02:57] <Guest10590> the problem comes when i send it usng the ntx2 transmitter
[02:57] <Guest10590> when i dont have the gps plugged in, i can send and recieve strings fine
[02:58] <Guest10590> when i plug in the gps, the strings are full of errors
[02:58] <navrac> could be as simple asa power supply issue - the gps takes a lot of current
[02:59] <heathkid> how much?
[02:59] <navrac> upto 75mA when getting a lock
[02:59] <Guest10590> well thats what i thought, so i used the arduinos power for the ntx2 and a seperate regulated 9v batery for the gps
[03:00] <Guest10590> with a common ground
[03:00] <navrac> are you usng softwareserial?
[03:00] <Guest10590> and it was still messy
[03:00] <Guest10590> yes
[03:00] <navrac> try swapping over to hardware serial
[03:02] <navrac> or also if you open up the softwareserial library the first code line sets the buffer to 64 bytes, it could be thaat whilst you are txing the rx buffer is overflowing - try setting it to 256 bytes
[03:02] <navrac> that one got me for a while
[03:04] <navrac> softwareserial.h > #define _SS_MAX_RX_BUFF 256 // RX buffer size instead of 64
[03:05] <Guest10590> ill give that a go, thanks!
[03:07] <navrac> no problem
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[03:18] <navrac> right back to bed for a bit
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[04:35] <diu> joj
[04:38] <diu> is the website back on line now?
[04:38] <diu> shi t, it is still offline
[04:39] <diu> does anyone know how to get the data using other methods besides fldigi?
[04:39] <stilldavid> which web site?
[04:40] <diu> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[04:40] <diu> habitat
[04:40] <stilldavid> ah, sorry.
[04:40] <stilldavid> I thought I was in another channel, you freaked me out :\
[04:41] <diu> lol
[04:41] <diu> do u know how we track the balloon without using fldigi?
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[04:41] <stilldavid> which?
[04:42] <diu> the tracking software
[04:43] <stilldavid> what data are you after? something not on: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[04:46] <diu> it is like can we put the data that we received into a text file?
[04:46] <diu> the position data
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[04:47] <diu> anyone????????????????????????
[04:48] <diu> have you guys use ultimate IMU before?
[04:51] <diu> guys?
[04:52] <stilldavid> you realize this is primarily a UK channel?
[04:55] <diu> sydney
[04:56] <Darkside> sydney huh
[04:56] <Darkside> <- Adelaide
[04:58] <diu> does anyone know how to export data from fldigi ??????
[04:58] <Darkside> uhh
[04:58] <Darkside> it can save to a file
[04:58] <Darkside> and there's a TCP port which you can get the demodulated data from
[04:58] <Darkside> port 7322
[04:59] <Darkside> you have to do all the parsing yourself
[04:59] <diu> how
[04:59] <Darkside> uh
[04:59] <Darkside> you write code
[04:59] <diu> do u have the code?/
[04:59] <Darkside> no, and i'm not going to give it to you
[05:00] <Darkside> well, yes, i have code to parse it
[05:00] <Darkside> but you need to write your own
[05:00] <Darkside> our code is designed to work with the project horus payloads
[05:00] <diu> what software for the code?
[05:00] <diu> matlab?
[05:00] <Darkside> uh
[05:00] <Darkside> no
[05:01] <Darkside> ours is written in java, but only because we had to use java to talk to another mapping program
[05:01] <Darkside> if i had a choice, i would have written it in python
[05:01] <Darkside> this is all for mapping payload position
[05:02] <diu> i dont know what direction i need to go to programme this
[05:02] <Darkside> you'll need to work that out for yourself
[05:03] <diu> any hints? manybe
[05:03] <diu> *maybe
[05:03] <Darkside> most people here use the spacenear.us/tracker/ for tracking
[05:03] <Darkside> well, for mapping the position anyway
[05:03] <Darkside> only a few people have their own offline mapping system
[05:03] <diu> when is it going to be b online then
[05:04] <Darkside> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[05:04] <Darkside> the tracker is online
[05:04] <diu> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/ this one
[05:05] <Darkside> uhh
[05:05] <Darkside> thats to export data from previous flights
[05:06] <Darkside> not to export data from a current flight
[05:06] <diu> i wanna export the data when recover my payload
[05:06] <Darkside> the data will still be in the database
[05:06] <Darkside> and can probably be exported by someone
[05:06] <Darkside> you can also set fldigi to log the received data to disk
[05:07] <Darkside> when are you planning on launching?
[05:07] <Darkside> and do you have the appropriate clearances?
[05:07] <diu> next weekend
[05:07] <diu> yeah
[05:07] <Darkside> so you've run the predictions?
[05:08] <Darkside> you know where it's going to go?
[05:08] <Darkside> you have enough people ready to track it
[05:08] <diu> i ve got 7 people
[05:08] <Darkside> right
[05:08] <Darkside> what group is this with?
[05:08] <Darkside> and what kind of paylod are you flying
[05:08] <diu> we r going to put an iphone in the payload for backup tracking
[05:09] <diu> its the sydney uni HAB project
[05:09] <Darkside> iphone won't work well
[05:09] <Darkside> you don't get phone reception above a few km
[05:09] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=146a15e061ec359e3c301b83d4241d7e0a32e68e
[05:09] <diu> yeah, but its the worst backup
[05:10] <Darkside> thats next friday, but of course it will change
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[05:10] <Darkside> sydney is a crap place to launch from
[05:10] <Darkside> too many mountains
[05:10] <Darkside> you either land in the ocean, or you land in a national park
[05:10] <Darkside> or in the middle of a city
[05:11] <Darkside> unless you launch from a few hundred km west
[05:11] <diu> nahnahnah
[05:11] <diu> i didnt say i launch it in sydney
[05:11] <diu> yeah
[05:11] <Darkside> hoooooold on
[05:11] <diu> west
[05:11] <Darkside> university of sydney..
[05:11] <Darkside> are you part of the cubesat group?
[05:11] <Darkside> tubesat*
[05:11] <Darkside> or is that UNSW
[05:12] <diu> ummm...... not really, but i did participate in the tube sat design
[05:12] <Darkside> right
[05:12] <diu> i m with another one
[05:12] <Darkside> they're testing that with us
[05:12] <diu> yeah, i know
[05:12] <Darkside> we're doing a launch for them in adelaide
[05:12] <diu> i was invited to be in the team for launching with you guys then
[05:13] <Darkside> yeah i have no idea how many people are coming over
[05:13] <diu> we only have two
[05:13] <Darkside> and they still need to change their transceiver frequency, as it's on an unsuitable frequency at the moment
[05:13] <diu> i pply not going since i have this one
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[05:13] <Darkside> 433.050 is A) not completely within the ISM band
[05:14] <Darkside> and B) the input to an amateur radio repeater which will be within the radio footprint of the payload when it's in teh air
[05:14] <diu> ok, i ll reflect this to the actual designer
[05:14] <Darkside> we've already told them
[05:14] <diu> ohohoh,ok
[05:14] <Darkside> it needs to be shifted up to somewhere around 434.075
[05:14] <Darkside> or 434.650
[05:15] <Darkside> there are a few options
[05:15] <diu> i m using 434 as well
[05:15] <Darkside> are you using a radiometrix module?
[05:15] <diu> yeah
[05:16] <diu> oh, its the transmitter
[05:16] <diu> ntx2
[05:16] <Darkside> yeah
[05:16] <Darkside> they work well
[05:16] <Darkside> so i guess you're doing 50 baud RTTY?
[05:16] <Darkside> or somethign similr
[05:16] <Darkside> arduino, gps unit, so on
[05:16] <Darkside> or some other microcontroller
[05:18] <diu> yeah arduino
[05:19] <diu> the only thing here is to get the real time data from the balloon
[05:19] <Darkside> well if you are set up properly with the habitat system, all the strings will be logged in the database
[05:19] <Darkside> and can be pulled out later
[05:20] <Darkside> have you made a payload document?
[05:20] <diu> u mean CASA?
[05:20] <Darkside> no
[05:20] <Darkside> i mean in the habitat system
[05:21] <diu> i m not sure if my teammate did or not
[05:21] <diu> i might ask him later
[05:21] <Darkside> does the project have a name?
[05:21] <diu> just HAB
[05:22] <Darkside> k, theres nothing in the db then
[05:22] <diu> 'HAB'
[05:22] <Darkside> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[05:22] <Darkside> yeah, you might want to make that name a bit more unique
[05:22] <Darkside> like USYDHAB or something
[05:22] <Darkside> else people are going to get confused
[05:22] <diu> ok, i will do that
[05:23] <diu> the only thing left it the real time data tracking now
[05:23] <Darkside> anyway, in there you can make a payload document, where you fill out info about the transmitted sentence stuff
[05:23] <Darkside> well if you get a payload document done, your payload will show on spacenear.us/tracker/
[05:23] <diu> not, the offline one
[05:23] <Darkside> i'd make sure it works with spacenear.us first
[05:24] <Darkside> then work on the offline stuff
[05:24] <Darkside> because thats going to be a *lot* harder to get working reliably
[05:24] <diu> the online is another backup. what if its offline
[05:24] <Darkside> haha spacenear.us tracker hasn't been offline for ages
[05:24] <Darkside> everyone here uses it as a primary tracking system
[05:24] <Darkside> it's *very* reliable
[05:25] <Darkside> a HUGE amount of work has gone into making it work, and work well
[05:25] <diu> ummmm.....sounds good
[05:25] <Darkside> as long as you have a decent 3g connection, you shoudl be fine
[05:25] <Darkside> and its sydney, that shouldn't be a problem
[05:25] <Darkside> just don't use vodafone :P
[05:26] <diu> i m with vodafone T>T
[05:26] <Darkside> haha
[05:26] <diu> damn.................
[05:26] <Darkside> get someone with telstra
[05:26] <Darkside> i mean, voda will probably work
[05:26] <Darkside> another thing is it might be worth having a stationary receive site
[05:27] <Darkside> someone at a place with a stable net connection, to receive the signal and upload the data (which happens automatically with dl-fldigi)
[05:27] <Darkside> that way there'll always be valid data on the spacenear.us/tracker/ page
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[05:27] <Darkside> and if you do happen to have a crap net connection, you can ring someone and ask where yo go
[05:27] <Darkside> to go*
[05:28] <diu> ohoh
[05:29] <diu> could u give me hints how to write that shi t in python? :)
[05:29] <Darkside> not really, no
[05:29] <Darkside> because theres a lot more to it
[05:29] <Darkside> seriously, for a first launch, use the existing tracking infrastructure
[05:30] <Darkside> then look at making your own offline tracking system
[05:30] <Darkside> you only have a week. that is *not* long enough to code and test a reliable offline tracker
[05:30] <diu> well...
[05:30] <Darkside> get the payload and receive stuff working with the existing, tried and tested system
[05:30] <Darkside> then once that is working, go and code your own stuff
[05:31] <Darkside> the only reason we have an offline tracker is many of our flights do go outside NextG coverage,
[05:31] <diu> i have no idea how to write
[05:31] <Darkside> so we have no choice but to have something
[05:31] <Darkside> diu: exactly why you should get your payloads working with the existing tracker
[05:31] <Darkside> because it's already there and working
[05:32] <diu> ok
[05:32] <diu> i might find it out for 2nd launch
[05:32] <diu> or 3rd
[05:33] <Darkside> ok, i need to head off
[05:33] <diu> cool, man. thx for your time
[05:33] <diu> thx a lot
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[05:47] <stilldavid> well, payload is ready for tomorrow at 15:30 UTC
[05:47] <stilldavid> crossing my fingers, charging my batteries and getting some sleep now.
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[05:55] Nick change: spacekitteh -> ricerlinux
[05:55] Nick change: ricerlinux -> spacekitteh
[06:04] <diu> good luck dude
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[06:23] <MLow> hey stilldavid
[06:23] <stilldavid> ohai
[06:55] <MLow> yeaaa
[06:56] <MLow> get yer balloon on?
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[07:06] <dwill> Hello, complete newbie here. Anybody there?
[07:06] <MLow> im here but im a newbie too
[07:06] <MLow> :(
[07:07] <dwill> How much of a newbie? Do you have any plans for a project or are you just interested?
[07:10] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Guinness Record attempt"
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[07:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Frits PE2G "Re: [UKHAS] Alinco DJ-X11 + dl-fldigi ?"
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[07:53] <danf_> Hey guys. hows it going
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[08:03] <navrac> good morning
[08:04] <danf_> morning
[08:05] <number10> morning - some wintery showers overnight - white stuff on shed roofs
[08:05] <Upu> morning
[08:05] <navrac> rain and strong winds here - had to get up at 6 to take the mast down
[08:05] <danf_> in australia here... all sun
[08:05] <Upu> meh
[08:05] <navrac> phhh
[08:06] <number10> nice
[08:07] <danf_> you guys actually get snow?
[08:09] <number10> yes, you can even get it in greece
[08:09] <danf_> almost impossible here. Ive never seen snow in australia
[08:10] <number10> you need to go to the boue mountains
[08:10] <number10> blue
[08:10] <danf_> Sydney far off im from north australia
[08:14] <danf_> easier to launch with no mountains. Balloons can get stuck in trees
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[08:17] <danf_> have you used ublox's max 6q chip before?
[08:18] <number10> yes
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[08:20] <danf_> im having trouble with serial interference with a transmitter
[08:20] <number10> it shouldnt be a problem its a straight forward serial interface
[08:21] <number10> infact if you power it up with an rs232 level converter you can see the nmea data on your pc
[08:23] <danf_> transmitting the nmea data is the problem. the chip seems very sensitive to timing on the serial port.
[08:24] <navrac> odd - ive never had a problem withit, even using softwareserial
[08:25] <number10> what are you using to receive the data?
[08:25] <danf_> maybe its the transmitter ntx2 radiometrix
[08:26] <number10> so you are receiving the data and retransmitting that on an ntx2 - and the problem is the retransmission?
[08:27] <number10> if you are using one of these arduino things and software serial - and have a very simple delay function for your ntx2 - the serial interrupts will interfere with your ntx2 timing
[08:29] <danf_> the retransmission does not work.well i am using an arduino with delays to send data on the ntx2
[08:35] <x-f> try disabling interrupts when you start transmission, then enable them again when it's finished
[08:37] <danf_> that seems like it would work. Thanks
[08:38] <x-f> great
[08:38] <danf_> first balloon launch coming up
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[08:39] <jcoxon> shall we clear the tracker?
[08:43] <danf_> no thats fine. Should be fine tracking
[08:44] <Upu> shoot for me
[08:47] <jcoxon> danf_, you launching did you say?
[08:48] <danf_> yes
[08:48] <danf_> next weekend
[08:48] <jcoxon> oh right
[08:48] <danf_> ?
[08:49] <jcoxon> you suggested it would be today
[08:49] <jcoxon> well i read it as you were launching today :-)
[08:49] <danf_> oh sorry. its late at night for me...... i forgot about the time different
[08:49] <danf_> difference*
[08:49] <Darkside> ahh, not the USYD group
[08:50] <Darkside> resending NMEA is a bit wastefu
[08:50] <Darkside> parse it and repackage
[08:50] <Darkside> you don't need most of the data
[08:50] <danf_> How do you about the usyd group. Yeah i do have some parsing code. just need longitude latitude hight
[08:50] <danf_> and time obviously
[08:50] <Darkside> look at the UKHAS wiki
[08:50] <Darkside> theres a 'standard' format
[08:51] <Darkside> follow that, and it'll make things easier for tracking
[08:51] <Darkside> hmm where is it
[08:52] <Darkside> cant find the damn thing, jcoxon ?
[08:52] <Darkside> aha
[08:52] <Darkside> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[08:52] <Upu> <3 wiki
[08:53] <Darkside> so yeah, use a standard sentence, with a CRC16 checksum
[08:53] <Darkside> else you're going to end up parsing invalid data
[08:53] <jcoxon> that page needs a bit of a spruce
[08:53] <Darkside> danf_: there was someone from the usyd group on earlier. I'm part of Project Horus - we're launching stuff for USYD soon
[08:54] <danf_> perfect. Ohhh yes. those guys coming down to south australia are a different project
[08:54] <danf_> we were about to get permission to launch in NSW
[08:55] <Darkside> so you have permission?
[08:55] <Darkside> and a approved launch site?
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[08:56] <navrac> heavy hail here - would take a balloon out no problem
[08:56] <jcoxon> sunny here
[08:56] <fsphil> sunny here, we had nasty hail yesterday evening
[08:56] <fsphil> and snow on the hills
[08:57] <fsphil> I guess this means my launch is coming up soon :)
[08:57] <danf_> Yeah we received permission from casa last week. we havent decided a launch site around nsw though yet
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[08:57] <Darkside> danf_: west
[08:57] <Darkside> far west
[08:58] <number10> that was pretty windy that video you posted yesterday fsphil
[08:58] <fsphil> shame this sydney launch is a week too early for me to visit and annoy them :)
[08:58] <danf_> ahahah yeah... just need to get over the mountains and past the pine forests
[08:58] <Darkside> danf_: adelaide works :P
[08:58] <fsphil> yea I was bracing myself for the balloon touching one of those spiky plants number10
[08:58] <Darkside> danf_: you've been running flight predictions?
[08:59] <danf_> Darkside: have you ever had landing in the ocean as a problem
[08:59] <Darkside> sure
[08:59] <Darkside> we don't launch when the prediction has the balloon going over the ocean
[08:59] <Darkside> there's a very good predictor available already
[09:00] <danf_> What would be the best predictor that you would suggest?
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[09:00] <Darkside> getting a link
[09:00] <Darkside> hold on
[09:00] <navrac> jcoxon: we need a lot of the rf22 library to do comms - the rfm one is hugely stripped down
[09:00] <Darkside> seriously, uo *need* to be running predictions
[09:00] <Darkside> you can't just pick a weekend and launch
[09:00] <Darkside> that usually ends very badly
[09:00] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=ffff6c09c56150fb5bfa00fc422fffc9ad1466f3
[09:01] <Darkside> there's one i ran for a random location near parkes, no particular launch point
[09:01] <jcoxon> navrac, do you think its not worth it?
[09:01] <Darkside> just as an example
[09:01] <Darkside> you set the time, date, launch loation, and other launch paremeters, then run the prediction
[09:01] <navrac> I think it might be better to start with the rf22 and strip stuff out of it
[09:01] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=043a7616da40a5080aecf642e95eff17e6a8e784 <- this is why I'm not launching today
[09:01] <Darkside> the predictions only work about a week in advance, and even then they aren't that ccurate that far out
[09:02] <Darkside> but yeah, you *need* to be running predictions, or else there's a good chance you're going to lose your payload
[09:03] <danf_> Well we were planning to launch in the next few weeks.... So i better start running them now
[09:03] <Darkside> yes
[09:03] <Darkside> and you need to fill your balloon appropriately, to get whatever ascent rate you use int eh predictions
[09:03] <Darkside> 5m/s is a good target
[09:04] <Darkside> you'll also need to get your launch site approved by casa
[09:04] <Darkside> which may take time
[09:04] <navrac> jcoxon - I'm going to need to add a bit to the rf22 lib as it is to put the processor into sleep mode while wiating for rx
[09:04] <Darkside> anyway, back to the telemetry
[09:05] <navrac> weeedidlydiddlydiddledeee
[09:05] <Darkside> danf_: if you want to have your payload show up on spacenear.us/tracker/ you will need to follow that telemetry format
[09:05] <danf_> GIven it is an acceptable place. We were told the approval time would be 4-5 days
[09:05] <Darkside> and then make a payload document
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[09:05] <Darkside> someone was in here talking about offline tracking, but you don't really have time to make and test a reliable offline tracking system
[09:05] <Darkside> so i'd use the spacenear.us/tracker/ system - it's very reliable
[09:06] <Darkside> downside is you'll need net access to be able to use it.
[09:06] <danf_> ok thanks. would we have to make a payload document before or after the launch?
[09:06] <Darkside> somethign else to consider when selecting your launch location
[09:06] <danf_> iphone hotspot... telstra is always the best choice
[09:06] <Darkside> yes
[09:06] <Darkside> but even then you mau ned a better antenna
[09:07] <Darkside> we often use large external antennas on our chase vehicles
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[09:08] <jcoxon> navrac, i'm off to ikea
[09:08] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:08] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2012-10-07_Horus_29/Pages/6.html
[09:08] <danf_> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4e0451e32b383bdbc6275a0e86280a0f2659e18b
[09:08] <Darkside> big black stick on the back of that landcruiser
[09:09] <Darkside> yep
[09:09] <Darkside> you
[09:09] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[09:09] <Darkside> argh
[09:09] <Darkside> you're going to want to avoid reservoirs, and large mountains :P
[09:09] <Darkside> else recovery is going to be a bitch
[09:10] <danf_> 10km hike is not preferred :S whats the worst retrieval you have had?
[09:10] <Darkside> long 4wd into very difficult area
[09:10] <Darkside> go through the projecthorus.org launch history
[09:11] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/DSC_5712.jpg
[09:11] <danf_> Thanks for the informations
[09:11] <Darkside> we were so far from anywhere that we could only use HF to contact base
[09:11] <Darkside> wayyy outside of phone range
[09:13] <danf_> Wow.
[09:13] <danf_> checking telstra range now
[09:13] <Willdude123> Can anyone help me with recieving http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RTTY.ogg in dl-fdigi?
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[09:14] <Willdude123> I have it open. There are 2 lines. I changed the settings, but the lines are not big enough to go over the 2 red ones.
[09:16] <Upu> op mode->rtty->custom
[09:16] <Upu> select custom carrier shift
[09:16] <Upu> adjust till the lines are right
[09:16] <Willdude123> That's weird, it says 170hz, but it isn't. Thanks Upu, I'll try that.
[09:16] <Upu> nah thats wrong
[09:17] <Upu> normally 400-600hz
[09:18] <Willdude123> The lines are right now as far as I can tell, but I'm getting random characters.
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[09:19] <Upu> ok do you know what baud rate and stop and start bits the sample you have is ?
[09:19] <Willdude123> 45.45 baud
[09:20] <Willdude123> 1.5 stop bits.
[09:20] <Upu> sure ?
[09:20] <Upu> thats a wierd one ? Where did you get that ?
[09:20] <Willdude123> WM Commons.
[09:21] <Upu> what bit rate ?
[09:21] <Willdude123> 5 data bits.
[09:21] <Upu> thats baudot
[09:22] <Darkside> oh that'll be ye olde baudot rtty
[09:22] <Upu> ok
[09:22] <Darkside> which is 45.45 baud standard, 170Hz shift
[09:22] <Darkside> and baudot
[09:22] <Upu> op mode->rtty->custom
[09:22] <Upu> bits 5
[09:22] <Upu> amend baud rate
[09:22] <Upu> bits per char
[09:23] <Upu> why not get a more standard sample
[09:23] <Willdude123> There were already set like that.
[09:24] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/launch_recordings/
[09:24] <Upu> couple there
[09:26] <Willdude123> Blocked! AARRRGGGHH!
[09:27] <Upu> you need to speak to who ever has installed that god awful software and get it removed
[09:27] <Willdude123> Well my parents don't really trust me.
[09:27] <Upu> give me their number I'll call them
[09:28] <Upu> :)
[09:28] <Willdude123> No.
[09:28] <Upu> lol
[09:28] <Upu> "Hello maam I'm from the internet"
[09:28] <Upu> get them to put an exclusion in
[09:29] <jonsowman> for "8"
[09:29] <jonsowman> er, "*"
[09:29] <Willdude123> Ironic. The people who do look at boobies on the internet are the people who have free access to all sites. Those who wouldn't do that have to suffer from not being able to go on other things.
[09:29] <Upu> lol yes
[09:29] <Upu> surely if you show them the site and explain your learning they will exclude it for you
[09:30] <Willdude123> I will do, soon.
[09:31] <Willdude123> It used to email them every time I went on something that the software thinks is bad. One extension was handy 'Auto refresher for Chrome'
[09:31] <Upu> lol
[09:31] <jonsowman> ssh tunnel?
[09:32] <Willdude123> Nope.
[09:32] <Upu> just go ask them
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[09:50] <cuddykid> Willdude123: just fire up Tor and you're through
[09:50] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Nova 23 landing footage"
[09:50] <cuddykid> Willdude123: https://www.torproject.org/
[09:50] <cuddykid> that landing footage is brilliant
[09:51] <Upu> like thats not going to be blocked
[09:53] <cuddykid> might not be, soon as it's downloaded it'll work through any blocking system unless they're the chinese gov
[09:53] <fsphil> your assuming the download is not blocked
[09:53] <cuddykid> yeah
[09:54] <cuddykid> read a post somewhere once describing how Tor was used by the bad boys to order weapons online lol
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[09:59] <RG-lz1dev> lol
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[10:19] <navrac> my chinese delivery has turned up - ive got two of these rfm22 replacements - odd little things
[10:19] <fsphil> clones?
[10:19] <navrac> they looked like clones but actually they are smaller
[10:20] <fsphil> the rfm is pretty small already
[10:20] <navrac> 14mmx12mm ish
[10:20] <fsphil> impressive
[10:21] <navrac> feels lighter than an rfm - which doesnt weigh much anyway
[10:21] <navrac> also a bigger one which has the sma connector on it - but it seems to have grown a chip more than the one i ordered
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[10:26] <navrac> ah its some kind of processor - looks like its a serial interface on it, pity
[10:32] <Darkside> hmm
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[10:32] <Darkside> is it a SoC radio?
[10:32] <Darkside> because if you can program the SoC, you could make a tracker with just that board and a gps
[10:33] <Willdude123> Upu:Tor isn't blocked.
[10:33] <Willdude123> But it would be no help.
[10:34] <Willdude123> It's like it monitors all stuff. Even if I have Ubuntu in virtualbox, it works.
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[10:43] <navrac> cant read the chip at all darkside - need my other glasses
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[10:47] <Darkside> mm, the laser etched stuff is hard to read
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[11:17] <Laurenceb_> any launches coming up?
[11:18] <Randomskk> we'll probably have one as soon as predictions look decent
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> cool
[11:18] <Randomskk> isn't there one today
[11:18] <Randomskk> or now
[11:18] <Randomskk> or something
[11:18] <Randomskk> stilldavid's
[11:18] Action: Laurenceb_ checks
[11:20] <stilldavid> yup.
[11:20] <stilldavid> in about 4 hours or so.
[11:21] <cuddykid> horrific conditions where I am - windy & freezing - however, a good clear sky
[11:21] Action: stilldavid up well before dawn :\
[11:21] <Randomskk> I got up so late :D
[11:21] <Randomskk> yay saturdays
[11:21] <stilldavid> it's probably -2 out, but nice and clear :)
[11:21] <RG-lz1dev> im wondering whenever GOOTAN is a good name for a hab payload
[11:24] <number10> I likes the nova 23 video Randomskk
[11:24] <number10> liked
[11:25] <daveake> That was funny
[11:25] <number10> you can hear the crunch of the gps tracker being damaged
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[11:26] <Laurenceb_> where is it?
[11:26] <Laurenceb_> the video
[11:26] <number10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3Q1cHrbFY
[11:26] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[11:27] <daveake> contains naughty words
[11:27] <Darkside> what
[11:27] <number10> i think one of the supervisors at the end was cracking a joke to the roofer that maybe it was up there to record his bad workmanship ... not quite those words
[11:28] <Darkside> it landed on people
[11:28] <Darkside> haha its a UGO!
[11:28] <Darkside> UFO*
[11:28] <number10> no - landed on roof Darkside
[11:29] <Darkside> hahah phone it, we might win something!
[11:31] <RG-lz1dev> 'congratulations, you winner who will be appearing in our youtube video'
[11:33] <RG-lz1dev> next time im packing a popout snake in my payload
[11:33] <x-f> hehe
[11:34] <x-f> "aliens from spaaaaaaaace"
[11:34] <x-f> "kill it with fire!!"
[11:34] <RG-lz1dev> ALIEN SPACESHIPS TO ATTACK EARTH IN NOVEMBER 2012!
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[11:36] <daveake> One of my payloads *was* a spaceship
[11:36] <RG-lz1dev> http://www.seti.org/rumors-of-spaceships-untrue?pid=1539
[11:36] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/P1030196-1024x768.jpg
[11:36] <Randomskk> number10: :D you can indeed
[11:37] <RG-lz1dev> daveake: nice one
[11:37] <Randomskk> hahaha a popout snake is a great idea
[11:49] <RG-lz1dev> anyone have an idea what are the spec of KI6YMZ-4 ?
[11:49] <RG-lz1dev> balloon/fill amount
[11:50] <x-f> email says 1600g balloon, H2
[11:52] <costyn> x-f: question about polling the gps after checkNav(); do you do a PUBX*33 and then a Serial.flush() to get rid of the "garbage"?
[11:52] <x-f> just PUBX*33, i don't flush
[11:53] <costyn> ok, wouldn't the garbage string still be in the serial buffer?
[11:53] <RG-lz1dev> probably
[11:53] <RG-lz1dev> i'd flush after
[11:53] <RG-lz1dev> it does take some time for the command to be processed, so it should be ok
[11:53] <x-f> that's why i poll it twice
[11:54] <x-f> i tried to flush, it didn't work well for me
[11:54] <costyn> I guess I'm a little confused about the inner workings of the Serial buffer :)
[11:54] <x-f> twice after checkNav*
[11:54] <costyn> ah ok
[11:54] <costyn> and then again as part of the normal loop ?
[11:55] <x-f> yes
[11:55] <costyn> ok cool
[11:57] <x-f> costyn, i was using the older Arduino IDE version, iirc from 1.0 flush() works a little different, so in this case it may be enough to just flush()
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[12:03] <d0wnl0rd> @mclane: bin nachher beim conrad - brauchst Du was?
[12:05] <costyn> x-f: well I couldn't get the TinyGPS library to work in Arduino 1.0 so I downgraded to 0023
[12:06] <x-f> ah, yes, you mentioned that
[12:06] <costyn> x-f: anyways thanks for the tips
[12:07] <costyn> just watched the nova 23 landing footage, very funny
[12:07] <x-f> cheers
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[12:08] <x-f> weird, i finally went to 1.0.1, my tinygps (v10 i modified for PUBX) works well there
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[12:26] <john__> hello
[12:27] <nick_> hi
[12:27] <Upu> afternoon
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[12:28] <Darkside> evening
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[12:28] <john__> im in need for some advice for what type of radio to use for my payload
[12:28] <john__> i.e. brand
[12:28] <nick_> I really should put together a flight computer soonish
[12:28] <cuddykid> rfm22b or ntx2
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[12:29] <costyn> x-f: ah well the one Darkside gave me didn't work for me. maybe you could post yours online somewhere? (wiki for example? :)
[12:29] <john__> radio receiver that can receive data tx from ntx2
[12:29] <cuddykid> yaesu ft817
[12:29] <cuddykid> or 790
[12:30] <Darkside> or an Icom IC-R10
[12:30] <costyn> or SDR dongle
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[12:30] <Darkside> or any number of other scanners or radios that can receive Sideband (SSB) on 434MHz
[12:30] <john__> cheers
[12:31] <navrac2> alinco ,yupiteru - scanner - but its better to get one that was designed for 70cm rather than a wideband one
[12:31] <Darkside> navrac2: not necessarily
[12:32] <Darkside> though a 70cm bandpass filter can help things
[12:32] <navrac2> yep
[12:33] <navrac2> my yupiteru isnt bad - about as sensitive as a funcube - until you connect a big aerial
[12:33] <navrac2> where they both go dead without a hab amp filter
[12:33] <Darkside> MVT7100?
[12:34] <navrac2> yep
[12:34] <Darkside> heh, i had one of those
[12:34] <Darkside> threw it out
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[12:37] <x-f> costyn, sure, i'll do it tonight, have to go out now
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[12:56] <Laurenceb_> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.texas-instruments.msp430.gcc.user/day=20121026
[13:04] <navrac2> how was ikea jcoxon
[13:06] <jcoxon> busy
[13:07] <navrac2> thats big town stuff, 3 people in a shop round here is busy
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[13:21] <john__> how much for the yaesu ft817
[13:21] <jonsowman> about £530 new iirc
[13:21] <Darkside> jonsowman: the 817 is a full transceiver though
[13:21] <Darkside> you really only need a receiver
[13:22] <mfa298> 2nd hand usually around £400 but there were a few on ebay that went for less.
[13:22] <jonsowman> I agree, but he did ask
[13:22] <jonsowman> I got mine for £300
[13:22] <john__> ill have to buy it used
[13:23] <john__> is there any RX radios, i dont need it tx anything
[13:24] <Darkside> there are many
[13:24] <Darkside> i'm particulatly fond of the Icom IC-R10's
[13:24] <Darkside> they are a handheld receiver
[13:25] <RG-lz1dev> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-790R-70-cm-Transciever-/110968748774?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
[13:25] <RG-lz1dev> if anyone is interested
[13:25] <Darkside> yep, or them
[13:25] <Darkside> even though its a transceiver, those FT-790's are cheap
[13:25] <Darkside> and work well
[13:25] <RG-lz1dev> 50 pounds for a all mode transciever
[13:25] <RG-lz1dev> its a pretty good deal, imo
[13:26] <navrac2> whats the easiest way of converting an array of chars to an array of uint8_t
[13:26] <jonsowman> they go for more like £130 RG-lz1dev
[13:26] <Randomskk> usually uint8_t is char
[13:26] <RG-lz1dev> jonsowman: oh, still a decent deal
[13:26] <jonsowman> totally :)
[13:26] <Randomskk> navrac2: but you cast it when you use it
[13:26] <Randomskk> (uint8_t)my_array[i]
[13:27] <Randomskk> you could also do this (uint8_t*)my_array
[13:27] <Randomskk> to cast the array to be interpreted as uint8_t
[13:27] <Randomskk> but you wanna be real careful that your chars are 8bit if you do that
[13:30] <mattbrejza> you can get non 8bit chars :/
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[13:31] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: welcome to unicode
[13:31] <Randomskk> embedded stuff is pretty much all 8 bit though.
[13:31] <Randomskk> and usually when windows is being stupid it calls them WCHAR instead
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[13:32] <RG-lz1dev> wchar?
[13:32] <Randomskk> the w is for wide.
[13:32] <navrac2> they are - but im now getting cast from char* to uint8_t loses precision
[13:32] <Randomskk> also, "why?"
[13:32] <mattbrejza> i know unicode isnt always 8bit, but i thought the variable name char was always 8bit
[13:32] <RG-lz1dev> but
[13:32] <navrac2> this is on the yukky arduino
[13:32] <Randomskk> navrac2: you are doing it slightly wrong then, shouldn't cast from char* to uint8_t, the first is a pointer
[13:32] <Randomskk> (you might find the loss in precision is because char might be signed and not unsigned)
[13:33] <RG-lz1dev> why wide ?
[13:33] <jonsowman> -funsigned-chars?
[13:33] <Randomskk> you could try using static_cast<uint8_t*>(thing) but can't remember if that works with arduino
[13:33] <jonsowman> no idea whether arduino uses unsigned chars by default
[13:34] <navrac2> i just defined my array of chars to be char data [25]
[13:34] <Randomskk> and how are you using it?
[13:34] <Randomskk> you could just define it as uint8_t data[25] instead
[13:34] <RG-lz1dev> The char datatype is a signed type, meaning that it encodes numbers from -128 to 127. For an unsigned, one-byte (8 bit) data type, use the byte data type.
[13:35] <jonsowman> navrac2: or "unsigned char data[25];"
[13:35] <Randomskk> haha oh ewww 'byte'
[13:35] <Randomskk> you could seriously use byte data[25]
[13:35] <Randomskk> that's okay for arduino
[13:35] <jonsowman> unsigned char is the same as byte
[13:35] <jonsowman> but is less eww
[13:35] <Randomskk> not semantically
[13:35] <jonsowman> "An unsigned data type that occupies 1 byte of memory. Same as the byte datatype."
[13:36] <Randomskk> yea.
[13:36] <Randomskk> they are identical in purpose
[13:36] <Randomskk> but have different implications
[13:36] <Randomskk> this is why uint8_t is nicer
[13:36] <jonsowman> well
[13:36] <jonsowman> that's a different discussion
[13:36] <Randomskk> indeed
[13:36] <navrac2> i think i hate c in all its variants, its easier in assembler
[13:36] <Randomskk> lol
[13:36] <Darkside> write a flight computer in AVR assembler
[13:36] <RG-lz1dev> haha, no.
[13:36] <Darkside> i dare you
[13:37] <navrac2> all im trying to do is take a string which is created from n=sprintf("hello,%d,rssi);
[13:37] <Darkside> wait
[13:38] <navrac2> and pass it to a call which wants an array of uin8_t
[13:38] <RG-lz1dev> that syntax is wrong
[13:38] <Darkside> you're having sprintf return a pointer to a string?
[13:38] <jonsowman> yeah sprintf takes 3 args
[13:38] <Darkside> sprintf takes a pointer
[13:38] <Darkside> and writes into it
[13:38] <navrac2> yes sorry -
[13:38] <Darkside> do not attempt dynamic memory allocation on an AVR.
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[13:38] <RG-lz1dev> exactly, afrair, returns number of characters written ?
[13:39] <jonsowman> probably
[13:39] <navrac2> should ve been sprintf(data,"hello,%d",rssi);
[13:39] <jonsowman> navrac2: d is signed?
[13:39] <jonsowman> sorry
[13:39] <jonsowman> rssi is signed?
[13:39] <navrac2> nope its unsigned
[13:40] <jonsowman> try %u
[13:40] <navrac2> its a uint8
[13:40] <jonsowman> yes
[13:40] <jonsowman> %u is for 8/16 bit unsigned ints
[13:40] <navrac2> its the bit when i call rf22.send(data,sizeof(data) thaTS CRASHING OUT
[13:41] <RG-lz1dev> Darkside: mmm, dynamic memory allocation could be fun
[13:42] <Darkside> navrac2: try using a fixed length data array?
[13:42] <Darkside> and pad the excess with zeros or something
[13:42] <jonsowman> what does sizeof() return and what does rf22.send() expect in that field?
[13:42] <Darkside> jonsowman: that line should work
[13:42] <Darkside> i use it in my own code
[13:42] <jonsowman> okay
[13:42] <navrac2> i defined data as unsigned char [25];
[13:43] <Darkside> hardcode that in
[13:43] <Darkside> rf22.send(data,25)
[13:43] <Darkside> see what happens
[13:43] <navrac2> rf22.send seems to expect an array of uint8
[13:43] <Darkside> ooh yep
[13:43] <jonsowman> and the number of bytes to send?
[13:44] <navrac2> yes sorry
[13:44] <Darkside> rf22.send((uint8_t*)relaymessage, (uint8_t)strlen(relaymessage));
[13:44] <Darkside> where relaymessage is a char array
[13:45] <navrac2> ok ill try that
[13:45] <jonsowman> that looks more sensible
[13:45] <RG-lz1dev> strlen is how you get buffer overflows
[13:45] <jonsowman> I'm unconvinced by sizeof(char*)
[13:45] <jonsowman> which is what you're doing with sizeof(data)
[13:45] <Darkside> RG-lz1dev: elsewhere in the code i ensire relaymessage[39] is 0
[13:46] <Darkside> (relaymessage being 40 chars long)
[13:46] Nick change: GeekShad1w -> GeekShadow
[13:46] <NigelMoby> buffer overflows are fun!
[13:46] <Darkside> so that bit of code is actually safe
[13:46] <Darkside> i did have this worry, that someone could buffer overflow my cutdown payload
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[13:46] <Darkside> which would be *hillarious*
[13:46] <RG-lz1dev> :D
[13:47] <RG-lz1dev> would be fun if you payload suddenly started transmitting a funny message
[13:47] <Darkside> you'd have to buffer overflow it with AVR bytecode
[13:47] <Darkside> ugh
[13:47] <RG-lz1dev> i see it
[13:48] <Darkside> wait, is that even possible
[13:48] <Darkside> im not sure if the architecture of the AVR would allow remote code execution like that
[13:48] <NigelMoby> try it :)
[13:49] <navrac2> im now getting invalid conversion from uint8_t* to uint8_t
[13:50] <navrac2> using rf22.send((uint8_t*)relaymessage, (uint8_t)strlen(relaymessage));
[13:50] <Darkside> hrm
[13:50] <Darkside> dunno
[13:50] <jcoxon> navrac2 might explode
[13:50] <RG-lz1dev> Darkside: '$$CALLSIGN,Segmentation fault'
[13:50] <jonsowman> is relaymessage a char array?
[13:51] <jonsowman> (what you had as 'data')/
[13:51] <jonsowman> ?
[13:51] <navrac2> yes
[13:52] <navrac2> thats it - im going to write a pascal compiler for avr - itsd going to be quicker
[13:52] <navrac2> surely it cant be that hard to convert from a char to a byte ffs
[13:53] <jonsowman> that error is related to casting the return value of strlen
[13:53] <navrac2> well spotted - typo at line10
[13:54] <navrac2> I'm copying from one machine to another - and looking over put an extra * on the strlen
[13:55] <jonsowman> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__string.html#ga7fd4936b86eb6b87e98587044c562715
[13:56] <jonsowman> size_t is typdef'd to uint16_t iirc
[13:57] <navrac2> the sad thing is i went all through this in feb, but lost the source code
[13:58] <jonsowman> :(
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[14:05] <navrac2> now to rewrite the rf22 libraRY AGAIN COS THE BOARD LAYOUT DOESNT MATCH THE LIBRARY
[14:05] <navrac2> oops sorry
[14:05] <number10> isnt that all defined
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[14:12] <eroomde> speaking of bored layout
[14:12] <eroomde> i was once stage managing a production of king lear
[14:12] <eroomde> which is about 4.5hrs long
[14:12] <eroomde> when one of the hands stopped answering on the cans (headsets) i went looking for him
[14:12] <eroomde> he was passed out, spread eagle, on a gangway in the roof
[14:12] <eroomde> snoring away
[14:14] <navrac2> i wonce fell asleep on the front truss of a lighting rig in the albert hall
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[14:19] <navrac2> solved one little connundrum - apparently rfm22b's wont talk to each other when they are on different frequencies...
[14:19] <jcoxon> navrac2, good to know :-p
[14:20] <Darkside> depends how far out they are :P
[14:20] <navrac2> also having the same data rate at each end probably helps
[14:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Nova 23 landing footage"
[14:21] <navrac2> i lost half of the program - i had one of my original programs for the tx and not the matching one for the rx
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[14:25] <number10> eroomde: an emergency cabinet, depending on where your payload lands - fizz - larger - whisky - running shoes
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[14:42] <RG-lz1dev> KI6YMZ-4 is on the map
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[14:43] <RG-lz1dev> those iphones are terrible at irc
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[14:47] <RG-lz1dev> is that payload both on rtty and aprs?
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[14:49] Nick change: W0OTM-iPhone__ -> W0OTM-iPhone
[14:49] <navrac2> ping darkside
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[15:53] <Laurenceb_> launch coming upo?
[15:55] <RG-lz1dev> any info on the current launch?
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> Time: 2012-10-27 15:39:15 Position: 39.0936,-104.8376 Altitude: 2194 m Rate: 0.0 m/s Max. Altitude: 2260 m Heading: 5.1° Speed: 0 km/h Temperature: 14.25C Temperature, External: 17.75 °C Receivers: KI6YMZ
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> there you go
[16:00] <number10> you could ask stilldavid after he has launched it
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[16:06] <stilldavid> just released
[16:06] <RG-lz1dev> Laurenceb_: thx, but im interested in other parameters of the flight
[16:09] <stilldavid> dang this is hard to track
[16:09] <stilldavid> 3200m and rising
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[16:13] Nick change: navrac3 -> navrac
[16:14] <number10> baloon position is not showing on spacenear.us
[16:14] <stilldavid> working on it
[16:14] <stilldavid> I'm the only tracker :(
[16:14] <Randomskk> KI6YMZ ?
[16:15] <stilldavid> yup
[16:15] <Randomskk> I think it's just not getting any good sentences/
[16:15] <Randomskk> there's a lot of errors like "invalid time value" or
[16:15] <Randomskk> oh
[16:15] <Randomskk> wait
[16:15] <stilldavid> https://twitter.com/stilldavid/status/262224633418371073
[16:15] <Randomskk> 16:5:3
[16:15] <stilldavid> more links
[16:15] <Randomskk> that's not a real time
[16:15] <Randomskk> 16:05:03 on the other hand
[16:15] <RG-lz1dev> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKI6YMZ-11
[16:18] <RG-lz1dev> stilldavid: hey could you tell me what balloon you are using and the fill amount
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[16:20] <stilldavid> well, funny story.
[16:20] <stilldavid> actually, brb, switching to tether
[16:21] <fsphil> a lot of bad CRC messages in the loga
[16:21] <fsphil> logs
[16:25] <RG-lz1dev> stilldavid: funny how ? :)
[16:26] <stilldavid> okay, on the road now
[16:26] <stilldavid> well, I made a payload for a 1000g balloon
[16:27] <stilldavid> but that balloon is not with me
[16:27] <stilldavid> so I borrowed a 1600g
[16:27] <stilldavid> so this thing is going to fly /far/
[16:27] <stilldavid> left it with 5.4 pounds of lift
[16:27] <stilldavid> and go suuuuper high
[16:27] <RG-lz1dev> any idea how much gas you filled it in with?
[16:30] <stilldavid> hmmm. no idea. I don't know much about howees or 1600g
[16:31] <fsphil> it may float
[16:31] <RG-lz1dev> 5.4pounds of gross lift?
[16:31] <fsphil> although 5m/s, should be safe
[16:31] <stilldavid> fsphil: scared of that, don't want to have to spend the night in kansas
[16:31] <stilldavid> prediction had it going about 100mi
[16:32] <RG-lz1dev> how heavy is your payload?
[16:33] <stilldavid> ~1.3lb or so
[16:36] <RG-lz1dev> my predictions
[16:36] <RG-lz1dev> Burst altitude: 35946m
[16:36] <RG-lz1dev> Burst altitude (ideal): 37417m
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[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:55] <nick_> Hi Lunar_Lander
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi nick_
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[16:58] <stilldavid> coming up on 20km
[16:58] <nick_> How's your project coming along?
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi stilldavid
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> nick_, quite OK thanks
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> and yours?
[17:00] <stilldavid> hiya Lunar_Lander
[17:00] <stilldavid> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FKI6YMZ-7%2Ca%2FKI6YMZ-11&timerange=3600
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[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> thanks stilldavid
[17:02] <nick_> I need to write a paper about my detector prototype and get some analog boards made up
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[17:10] <RG-lz1dev> stilldavid: whats the aprs tracker? trackuino?
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[17:12] <stilldavid> RG-lz1dev: correct, trackuino
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[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> nick_, sounds good
[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> stilldavid, what else is on the balloon?
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[17:17] <nick_> Have you got your flight computer working yet?
[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[17:18] <stilldavid> the payload is a sparkfun box :)
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> sensors?
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[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> stilldavid, ?
[17:30] <RG-lz1dev> not sure if the temp sensors actually work
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[17:36] <Willdude123> Where do people buy trackuinos from?
[17:37] <Willdude123> Or do they build them?
[17:39] <RG-lz1dev> http://code.google.com/p/trackuino/wiki/TrackuinoShield22
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> stilldavid, do you have a moment?
[17:43] <RG-lz1dev> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=9&call=a%2FKI6YMZ-11%2Ca%2FKI6YMZ-7%2Ca%2FKB9QLS-11&timerange=3600
[17:43] <RG-lz1dev> what are the chances?
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[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> the main breaker just tripped
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[17:53] <stilldavid> Lunar_Lander: in the back of a car tracking a balloon
[17:53] <stilldavid> that's going /very/ high
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> and I am sitting here annoyed by my parents because the crap tumble dryer tripped the breaker
[17:55] <stilldavid> RG-lz1dev: chances of what?
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[17:56] <stilldavid> gah, I think I lost gps
[17:56] <stilldavid> NOOOO
[17:56] <RG-lz1dev> stilldavid: there is another balloon flying near the locatino of the what
[17:56] <stilldavid> RG-lz1dev: oh, yeah. we launched simultaneously.
[17:59] <RG-lz1dev> not sure what happened near the end of my last sentence
[17:59] <stilldavid> POPPED
[17:59] <RG-lz1dev> did it just pop ?
[18:00] <stilldavid> waiiiit.
[18:01] <RG-lz1dev> probably popped
[18:01] <stilldavid> barely floating I think
[18:01] <RG-lz1dev> trackuino code is terrible
[18:01] <stilldavid> shit. it's floating.
[18:01] <stilldavid> at 130000 ft.
[18:02] <stilldavid> nah, it's falling.
[18:02] <stilldavid> just got gps back from the 70cm
[18:02] <stilldavid> 22km now
[18:02] <RG-lz1dev> yep
[18:02] <stilldavid> phew.
[18:02] <RG-lz1dev> trackuino code needs lots of improvement
[18:02] <stilldavid> freaked me out for a sec.
[18:02] <stilldavid> RG-lz1dev: so I'm seeing.
[18:03] <RG-lz1dev> there is no indication when GPS fix is lost
[18:03] <RG-lz1dev> and it just keeps sending the old coordinates
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[18:04] <stilldavid> yup.
[18:04] <stilldavid> I'm gettting up to date stuff from the other one toughh
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[18:05] <stilldavid> that I coded specifically to not send old data
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[18:19] <prawnsalad> is there a link to the tracking for this?
[18:20] <cuddykid> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[18:20] <cuddykid> I'm guessing that's the flight being talked about?
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[18:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Matt "[UKHAS] Re: HackHD"
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[18:56] <fsphil> good altitude
[18:56] Mark__ (586d26ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.109.38.239) joined #highaltitude.
[18:57] <fsphil> mostly flat and open terrain around there too
[19:00] <Mark__> Hi All
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[19:04] <Mark__> I have a question about dl-fldigi - I have built my transmitter and have it transmitting the demo code found on this page http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2.
[19:04] <Mark__> From part 2
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:05] <Mark__> I have installed the SDR# software and have that working correctly - I think. I can see my payload transmitter and hear the various beeps from the transmitter
[19:06] <Mark__> I have set up the sound card so its the stereomix / what u hear option.
[19:06] <Mark__> Now the problem is how to operate dl-fldigi correctly I think!
[19:07] <Mark__> I can see the transmission on the waterfall of dl-fldigi but it is a big mess and the output above is a massive jumble - defo not the pair of lines that people say I should be seeing
[19:08] <Mark__> I think the question is, how to configure dl-fldigi?
[19:08] <Mark__> Can anyone help please?
[19:09] <navrac> on the bottom left clan you see a box marked rtty?
[19:09] <Mark__> Yes can see that
[19:09] <navrac> right click on it
[19:09] <Mark__> yep
[19:10] <navrac> should bring up a window, try setting it to custom shift - probably 450hz
[19:10] <navrac> 7 bits
[19:10] <navrac> 2 stop bits
[19:10] <navrac> no parity
[19:11] <navrac> then try to line up the two yellow lines that follow you mouse over the waterfall over the two predominant signal lines
[19:11] <Mark__> Ah I think that is the problem, i dont see two predominant singnal lines
[19:11] <Mark__> I see one massive line
[19:11] <navrac> can you take a screen shot and put it on imgur
[19:11] <Mark__> I can screen shot if that would help?
[19:11] <navrac> yes it would
[19:12] <fsphil> in SDR# what mode do you have it set to?
[19:12] <navrac> usb
[19:12] <Mark__> yes
[19:12] <navrac> oh sorry fsphil - thought it was mark asking
[19:12] Nick change: pjm__ -> pjm
[19:12] <fsphil> our nicks are all the same length :)
[19:12] <Mark__> But I only see one line there - the peak that does up and down
[19:13] <fsphil> in sdr# the signal will appear as a single line, unless you zoom in
[19:13] Nick change: pjm -> pjm1
[19:13] <navrac> if the screen shot could show sdr and fldigi it would help
[19:13] <fsphil> yea
[19:13] <Mark__> yep ok 2 secs
[19:20] <Mark__> Hi there, ok http://grab.by/h57s there is SDR#
[19:20] <Mark__> http://grab.by/h57w dl-fldigi
[19:21] <MiniMail> os that some scanning program?
[19:22] <costyn> MiniMail: which the SDR#?
[19:22] <Mark__> It's called TinyGrab - just a program that sits in your computer tray ready for you to press Ctrl + Shift + 4
[19:22] <fsphil> that looks like something is wrong with the signal
[19:23] <MiniMail> costyn: ye
[19:23] <fsphil> how is the ntx2 wired up Mark__?
[19:23] <costyn> MiniMail: just to tune the SDR dongle and do some decoding
[19:23] <navrac> yep - it doesnt seem to be modulated
[19:23] <Mark__> I wired it as described on the other tutorial site
[19:24] <fsphil> something's not right with it
[19:24] <costyn> Mark__: when you listen to it, does it sound modulated? or just 1 tone?
[19:25] <Mark__> It sounds like a load of warbling. I did have the arduino sending the alternat on / off beeping and that was audiable too
[19:25] <MiniMail> costyn: :) are the SDR dongle thing only FM?
[19:25] <costyn> MiniMail: well no, because it's software radio you can do pretty much what you want with it
[19:25] <navrac> no sdr# does usb
[19:25] <Mark__> No its the ezcap dongle that does them all
[19:26] <MiniMail> uum
[19:26] <navrac> can you zoom in on the frequency in the sdr program so its showing a narrower spectrm
[19:26] <MiniMail> k
[19:26] <MiniMail> :>
[19:27] <navrac> you want that light blue bit that its decoding to be much wider
[19:27] <Mark__> Ah the filter bandwidth
[19:27] <fsphil> fldigi only handles 3khz anyway
[19:28] <fsphil> well, 4khz if you configure it
[19:28] <navrac> leave the bandwidth the same - just zoom in the freq display
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[19:29] <Mark__> Can I ask, how important are aerials when working in close proximity to both the transmitter and reciever. I had it set up so they are a few feet apart. The dongle had an aerial on but the transmitter didn't
[19:29] <Mark__> I could still hear everything and see the waves so assumed it was ok for testing
[19:29] <navrac> should be fine
[19:29] <fsphil> at that range you could use anyway
[19:29] <Mark__> Ok excellent
[19:29] <fsphil> anything*
[19:29] <navrac> i testmy payload close to the rx
[19:30] <navrac> it looks more fm modulated more than stepping to two discrete frequencies
[19:30] <fsphil> yea
[19:30] <fsphil> or it's changing between the tones too quicky
[19:30] <Mark__> Ok, do you suspect that to be a hardware or software problem
[19:31] <navrac> what i wanted to see was a close up of that peak on the sdr so we can see if its transmitting 2 discrete frequencies rather than one wobbling one
[19:31] <Mark__> Ah I'd say it was defo one wobbling one
[19:31] <Mark__> zooming right in gives me one peak only
[19:31] <navrac> hardware - as it seems to wander - if it was software it would either be one freqw or the other
[19:32] <costyn> Mark__: are you powering it off batteries or a 5v powersupply?
[19:33] <daveake> I'd disconnect the NTX2 I/P then short that to ground, then you *should* have a strong single line in SDR# and fldigi
[19:33] <fsphil> breadboard can also cause weird things like that
[19:33] <daveake> then connect to 3V3 and see if the line moves
[19:34] <daveake> breadboard goes along with software serial in my list of things to avoid because they can/will cause trouble
[19:36] <Mark__> At the moment its being powered from the usb lead of the ardunio
[19:36] <navrac> at those frequencies ( on the computer side anyway) breadboards fine - not on the rf output side - but the ntx should be stable into the capacitance of a bit of breadboard
[19:36] <costyn> why does that happen with breadboards?
[19:36] <navrac> capacitance
[19:36] <costyn> i see
[19:36] <fsphil> also bad connections
[19:37] <fsphil> sometimes certain pins go bad
[19:37] <navrac> true - i never keep mine long enough
[19:37] Action: bertrik is always amazed at people who manage to get burn marks on their breadboards
[19:38] <Mark__> ok trying those things now
[19:38] <navrac> i get burn marks - but i tend to be soldering bits quite close to other components
[19:39] <costyn> side question: any reason not to put an rfm22b next to the battery holder in the payload?
[19:40] <navrac> no - as long as theres no vibration - the batteries will pull the freq a bit - which is ok unless the batteries move then the freq wobles
[19:40] <daveake> no
[19:40] <costyn> navrac: ok, so everything should be snug then
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[19:41] <navrac> yep i do it saves on insulation
[19:41] <costyn> ok, cool that works with my plans :)
[19:42] <navrac> oh i mean i put my batteries close to the rfm - snugly together - but yes
[19:42] <daveake> In my smaller trackers I use hot-melt to stick the tracker to the batteries, so the rfm22b has some thermal mass attached to it, to reduce drifting. Also, make sure air can't get in near the rfm, especially when the payload is falling
[19:43] <navrac> - yes a bit of thermal mass on the rfms chip really helps - and like dave i make sure air cant get to it
[19:43] <navrac> simple test on an rfm - turn it on fixed freq and blow on it
[19:44] <costyn> daveake: and the rfm is stituated facing the batteris?
[19:44] <daveake> when I've tested mine out in the garden, I can see the wind gusting by watching the trace in fldigi
[19:44] <costyn> heh
[19:44] <daveake> costyn Yes
[19:45] <navrac> I glue the head of a bolt onto my rfms
[19:45] <costyn> ok, in my case the rfm will be sitting on top of the backside of the batteries
[19:45] <costyn> navrac: for thermal mass?
[19:45] <costyn> like a thermal capacitor :)
[19:45] <daveake> :-)
[19:45] <navrac> yep - ill see if i can find a imgur upload i did
[19:46] <daveake> My picobuzz flight this week just had some bubble-wrap as insulation, and the trace was rock solid
[19:47] <navrac> it was very good for an rfm
[19:47] <DrLuke> http://i.imgur.com/tSw0m.jpg
[19:48] <navrac> the rfm is only really bad when you switch the tx on and off - as long as you wrap it.
[19:48] <fsphil> DrLuke: cute
[19:48] <DrLuke> :3
[19:49] <daveake> Or change power
[19:49] <costyn> navrac: so not turning it off between strings will keep it more level?
[19:49] <daveake> yes
[19:49] <navrac> yep
[19:51] <navrac> without thermal mass it will drift >100hz in the first 5 seconds and over 200 over the length of the packet - so fldigi sometimes looses track
[19:51] <navrac> so unless you are going for a long flight that needs power saving turn it on and leave it on
[19:51] <costyn> yea had that there anyways
[19:52] <costyn> i like to hear the carrier between strings; it dissapearing makes you start wondering if it'll come back hehe
[19:52] <navrac> yep
[19:56] <costyn> making a clamshell out of xps for my pro mini tracker: http://i.imgur.com/06SpN.jpg
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[20:02] <Mark__> Ok, a\afte
[20:02] <daveake> hah - http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83myjhW801rp6zfeo1_400.jpg
[20:02] <number10> you need some room in there for the battery costyn
[20:03] <costyn> number10: it's underneath the rfm
[20:03] <number10> :)
[20:03] <MLow> RFM?
[20:04] <Mark__> The usual story - human error- I had the ntx2 wired incorrectly. I was following the photograph rather than the diagram. It's obvious now, what I was doing wrong.
[20:04] <MLow> also what is that thing dangling out the side
[20:04] <costyn> MLow: RFM22B, the radio module
[20:04] <daveake> it's a programmable radio transceiver
[20:04] <number10> on the left MLow
[20:04] <costyn> MLow: that's the external temp probe, but I need to make it shorter :)
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[20:05] <Broliv> Evening all
[20:05] <costyn> i didn't know how big my payload would be yet when I soldered that on there
[20:05] <DrLuke> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzzu3eXZP2Q
[20:05] <DrLuke> need to work on that
[20:05] <MLow> ah cool, 433mhz works over these long distances?
[20:05] <Mark__> I have a pair of lines now, but strangly a third misterious line on the right - should i be worried aboiut that?
[20:05] <daveake> 3rd weaker?
[20:06] <costyn> daveake: used your suggestions of using jumpers to disengage the gps tx during programming and also engaging the batteries
[20:06] <costyn> MLow: yes, very much.. ~800km is the record I believe
[20:06] <costyn> Mark__: screenshot plz :)
[20:06] <daveake> costyn good :)
[20:07] <costyn> daveake: very convenient :)
[20:07] <fsphil> 560km is good enough for anyone ;)
[20:07] <daveake> :)
[20:07] <MLow> with directional antenna im sure
[20:07] <MLow> hard to kinda put those on a tiny block of foam
[20:07] <fsphil> colinear for the 560
[20:07] <costyn> not sure what OZ1SKY used
[20:07] <fsphil> and I believe upu got further again with his colinear
[20:07] <costyn> but I think it was a yagi
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[20:08] <costyn> fsphil: yea Upu does get insane ranges on his colinear
[20:08] <MLow> with this unit?
[20:08] <costyn> MLow: well the payload has an 1/4 wave antenna so half-directional, on the ground people use colinears and yagis
[20:09] <number10> what did they eat daveake cottage pie?
[20:10] <costyn> hehe
[20:10] <daveake> shutup zb
[20:10] <number10> [21:02] <daveake> hah - http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83myjhW801rp6zfeo1_400.jpg
[20:10] <daveake> ah, delayed humour :)
[20:10] <number10> well delayed reading
[20:11] <navrac> i hate to think what range upu could get now
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[20:11] <number10> at least I got it daveake
[20:11] <MLow> costyn: whats the datarate / modulation used?
[20:11] <daveake> true
[20:12] <MLow> rtty 300 baud?
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[20:12] <costyn> MLow: 50 baud and rtty yes
[20:12] <MLow> wow
[20:13] <costyn> navrac: what with his yagi?
[20:13] <MLow> well that would explain the range for sure
[20:13] <Mark__> <costyn> http://grab.by/h5ay
[20:13] <MLow> i wonder if you could make these do aprs
[20:13] <costyn> MLow: would you be impressed if we told you that all radio modules are only 10mW modules?
[20:13] <MLow> o.O
[20:13] <costyn> MLow: sure, but it's not allowed in the UK
[20:14] <navrac> i spent a thoroughly dull day trying to get the lowest noise floor on an rfm today in rx mode
[20:14] <costyn> Mark__: well, I've never seen that, but I'm kinda new to the sport, so others may have something to say about that
[20:14] <MLow> fsk, 1200 baud
[20:14] <navrac> most of it was working on two lines of code
[20:15] <Mark__> That strange line is also present in SDR#
[20:15] <Mark__> a constant line
[20:16] <navrac> turn down the volume it might just look worse than it is
[20:16] <MLow> nvm you would need 144mhz
[20:16] <MLow> they only go down to 240
[20:17] <Mark__> ok sortedd now
[20:17] <jcoxon> navrac, success?
[20:18] <navrac> yep gave us about another 6-8db of usable sensitivity
[20:19] <jcoxon> nice
[20:19] <jcoxon> so what did you turn off
[20:20] <navrac> switching the gps off, putting the processor to sleep, earthing some bits and feeding the rfm directly off the battery and switching the boost reg off whilst receiving
[20:20] <jcoxon> :-)
[20:20] <jcoxon> ooo iss pass
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[20:21] <navrac> so tomorrow its experimenting with even lower data rates and trying to tune up a slim jim to the rfm
[20:23] <jcoxon> coool
[20:23] <jcoxon> well tomorrow i'll actually get started :-p
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[20:23] <navrac> yep - i think ill be less productive tomorrow - parents invited themselves over
[20:24] <navrac> at least it isnt ikea
[20:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:25] <jcoxon> yeah i've done a lot of my chores
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[20:26] <navrac> i did the obvious quick ones so it looked like i hadnt spent the whole day 'playing balloons'
[20:27] <fsphil> good plan
[20:27] <costyn> navrac: "playing balloons" ... that makes it sound awful
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[20:28] <navrac> im sure there are websites about that - i seem to remember finding one whilst trying to find a balloon site
[20:30] <costyn> my wife calls it 'nerding' ... any of my electronics or other computer related activities :)
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[20:34] <x-f> costyn!
[20:34] <Upu> thats what my wife calls it too
[20:35] <costyn> x-f: hiya
[20:35] <x-f> was about to go to bed, then remembered you and tinygps.. :)
[20:35] <costyn> x-f: well don't worry about it
[20:36] <costyn> x-f: I mean, I just downgraded it all to 0023, probably not going to upgrade again for my current 2 payloads
[20:37] <x-f> well, ok, i ll do it tomorrow
[20:37] <costyn> x-f: cool, well thanks for thinking of me anyways :)
[20:37] <x-f> last day of DST, i'd get my hour back anyway :)
[20:37] <costyn> oh god
[20:37] <costyn> DST
[20:38] <Upu> I'm trying to get interrupt based RTTY transmissions working on the AVR
[20:38] <daveake> good boy :)
[20:38] <Upu> sort of working
[20:38] <Upu> code is actually quite simple
[20:38] <Upu> which is always a good sign I find
[20:38] <daveake> It is.
[20:39] <daveake> Getting the timer init right is the only tricky bit really
[20:39] <Upu> worked that out
[20:39] <daveake> :)
[20:39] <fsphil> it's the future :)
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[20:40] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/Ui94qp5D
[20:40] <Upu> thats the easy bit
[20:40] <DanielRichman> ewwww
[20:40] <Upu> assuming prescaler of 1024
[20:40] <costyn> fsphil: why's that?
[20:40] <Upu> better timing
[20:40] <DanielRichman> are you using one of the delay fuunctions or an actual avr hardware timer Upu ?
[20:41] <Upu> avr hardware timer on an interrupt DanielRichman
[20:41] <fsphil> you can prepare the next string while the current one is transmitting costyn
[20:41] <DanielRichman> I retract my eww
[20:41] <fsphil> also the timing should be solid
[20:41] <Upu> TIMER1_COMPA_vect
[20:41] <DanielRichman> I thought those were empirically determined constants for delay or something icky
[20:41] <fsphil> Upu, the swift code calculates those values using a formula
[20:41] <Upu> no just what I set the OCR1A too
[20:42] <fsphil> you just pass in a baud rate
[20:42] <Upu> fair enough
[20:42] <Upu> work in progress
[20:42] <DanielRichman> avr timer... when I wrote the alien code, literally, just divided clock frequency by desired baud rate, picked prescaler, set it, pretty sure it worked first time
[20:42] <DanielRichman> no timing issues at all
[20:42] <Upu> but costyn means you can TX in the back ground with rock solid timing
[20:42] <DanielRichman> really is the way to go
[20:42] <Upu> and continue to read the GPS in the foreground
[20:42] <DanielRichman> it's so much of the way to go that perhaps we should make a library to do it
[20:43] <DanielRichman> actually one of those very likely exists
[20:43] <fsphil> only catch is I sometimes overwrite the current string while it is still transmitting ;)
[20:43] <Upu> Yeah well if it works I'll release the code for peer review
[20:43] <costyn> fsphil: sounds nice; thx for the explanation
[20:43] <Upu> as my programing is dire
[20:43] <fsphil> https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/rtty.c ;)
[20:43] <Upu> but it fixes a bunch of issues in one swoop
[20:43] <daveake> fsphil I set a flag with the int Tx runs out of string; the f/g task them builds a new string
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[20:44] <daveake> A wiki article would be a good idea
[20:44] <fsphil> I've a similar function, but I sometimes forget to call it....
[20:44] <Mark__> Hello All again, just to let you know that I have it working now and thank you for your help
[20:44] <Upu> What I'm doing may just be garbage
[20:44] <Upu> I dunno
[20:44] <fsphil> excellent Mark__
[20:44] <DanielRichman> a "volatile" variable, /me hopes
[20:44] <Upu> have to try it
[20:44] <daveake> What was/were the problem(s)?
[20:45] <Upu> Yes volatile declarations on all variables used
[20:46] <Upu> anyway needs further work tomorrow
[20:46] <Upu> Cheers for the code fsphil
[20:46] <Mark__> Incorrect wiring of the board - yes even though there are only 3 connections to the arduino lol. This was also my first entrance into the arduino world so I was following the picture not the diagram, but the picture was not for the same board as I have!
[20:47] <Mark__> Going back and following the diagram worked - like I should have done in the beginning but was being lazy
[20:47] <Upu> which picture Mark__ ?
[20:47] <Mark__> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:linkingntx2-3.jpg
[20:48] <Upu> there are only 3 on there
[20:48] <Upu> VCC , GND and the DATA
[20:48] <Upu> daveake's circuit :)
[20:49] <Mark__> Yeah but the mistake I made was following the exact pin placements as the picture - whereas my board is an Uno
[20:49] <Mark__> not the same as the picture
[20:49] <Mark__> so it didnt work
[20:49] <fsphil> anyone got the arm arduion yet?
[20:49] <fsphil> arduino*
[20:49] <Upu> thought pins were the same on the Uno
[20:49] <Upu> oh well as long as it works
[20:49] <Upu> nope fsphil
[20:50] <Mark__> No, those pins on the uno did not work for me
[20:50] <Upu> hmm
[20:50] <Upu> I best check that
[20:51] <Mark__> Its obv now that the only connections that I needed was ground, 5v and pin 13, but following the photo meant that i was plugging into Digital 2
[20:51] <Mark__> Ah unless... you had pin two as your data
[20:51] <costyn> Mark__: which you can change in your code :)
[20:52] <Mark__> yes I know that now!
[20:52] <Mark__> Copy and paste never works etc lol
[20:52] <fsphil> rule #1 of #highaltitude :)
[20:52] <Mark__> Haha well lesson learnt
[20:53] <daveake> If only it was always that simple
[20:53] <daveake> :)
[20:53] <Mark__> Happy it works now anyway. The plan was to get it working from the demo and then go through it all to see what was what#
[20:55] <fsphil> I was well chuffed when I saw my first message over rtty
[20:56] <fsphil> I think I spend an hour just sending silly messages :)
[20:56] <fsphil> spent*
[20:56] <daveake> :)
[20:57] <Mark__> I'm guesisng I should be worried about the pair of lines moving very slowly to the right?
[20:57] <Mark__> So after leaving it for 15 mins it is now jumbled output?
[20:57] <fsphil> drift is normal -- it's either the ntx2 or the rtl-sdr changing temperature
[20:57] <fsphil> or both
[20:58] <fsphil> fldigi should be able to track the change as long as it doesn't drift outside its waterfall
[21:00] <costyn> so whats the latest trend on materials to make your radials with? I used copper wire using in house wiring last time, but perhaps there are better alternatives
[21:01] <costyn> s/using/used/
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[21:02] <costyn> plain ole hookup wire in drinking straws?
[21:03] <daveake> yup
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[21:04] <costyn> righto
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[21:05] <costyn> some solid core cat5 that I have lying here might just do nicely
[21:07] <number10> someone, I cant remember ran a prediction for the red bull stratos just before launch .. http://i.imgur.com/tY6yw.jpg ....
[21:08] <number10> actul landing was http://i.imgur.com/R0BOw.jpg
[21:08] <number10> not bad as the time of the jump was not known
[21:08] <fsphil> warning: I used cat5 cable on hadie:2 :)
[21:09] <fsphil> well, a single cable from it for each element
[21:09] <fsphil> I'm pretty sure the wire broke off
[21:09] <costyn> fsphil: hmm
[21:09] <costyn> well I could use a twisted pair for 1 element
[21:09] <fsphil> the wires in the cable I have at least, are not strong enough to hold their shape
[21:09] <NigeyS> costyn, got any mains cable anywhere? the grey stuff, can use the earth wire from some of that
[21:09] <fsphil> and if they twist much at all they break
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[21:10] <fsphil> ooh, the solid core from the middle of coax
[21:10] <costyn> NigeyS: yea I used that last time. worked okay but seems too bulky
[21:10] <fsphil> one of NigeyS's picos used that stuff
[21:10] <NigeyS> yup
[21:10] <fsphil> that holds it shape well
[21:10] <fsphil> its*
[21:10] <NigeyS> and the rest used the core from a 75ohm sat coax cable
[21:10] <costyn> fsphil: mine are solid core, they hold their shape nicely
[21:11] <fsphil> although I'd put something over the end to stop it ending up stuck in meat
[21:11] <costyn> heeh
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[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[21:15] <NigeyS> hi Kev
[21:19] <costyn> anyways, I'm off... nitey night
[21:19] <fsphil> nite!
[21:19] <NigeyS> nn costyn
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 costyn
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[21:28] <nick_> Does it matter where I put the pull up resistors on my I2C bus? ie with the uC or with the devices listening on the bus?
[21:30] <nick_> I'm assuming I should just have one pull up resistor by each I2C pin (scl/sda), rather than resistors by each of the ICs connected to the bus.
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[21:32] <fsphil> I don't believe it matters
[21:33] <nick_> So, since I don't know how many channels will connect to the bus it's simplest to just have pull up resistors on the uC end.
[21:34] <fsphil> there will only be two I2C lines
[21:34] <fsphil> that will have two wires, each needing a single pull-up
[21:35] <fsphil> even if there is more than one device connected to it
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[21:38] <Laurenceb_> im so bored i decided to watch CSI
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> its sooo baaaddd
[21:39] <DrLuke> Let me write a gui interface in visual basic to track his IP
[21:44] <LazyLeopard> CSI: Forensic astrology...
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[21:47] <Laurenceb_> pmsl
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> they just shot a hole in the ground with a handheld laser cannon
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> this is taking the piss
[21:48] <nick_> Try watching Bones
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> "we seem to be onto of a toxic waste dump"
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: it's real!
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> NASA - they were doing that last week on Mars
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> shoots hole in ground, gets back mass spectrometer picture from 6 feet down
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> with a laser.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> OK, the laser penetrated 1mm after 600 shots... but still
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> and it wasnt a bosch ir temperature device with another lable stuck ontop
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> and a really bad cgi holographic screen added
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> the ChemCam on Curiosity is cool
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> I want one
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> I also want a rapid DNA sequencer
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> touch it to something, get the Wikipedia page
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> 'that is a girl'
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mthbexW_jlRmyTZ829rGQIw.jpg
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> just get one of those
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD I remember a smartphone app for museums
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> <SpeedEvil> touch it to something, get the Wikipedia page
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> <SpeedEvil> 'that is a girl'
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> like if you photograph something it will get the correct historical info
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> i dont know what to say
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> and they showed how it failed
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[21:55] <Laurenceb_> but it seems like an unlikely thing to happen
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> the guy took a photo of I think a Knight's Helmet
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> and then it showed a motorcycle helmet
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> i mean youd have to meet a girl in the first place
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> specifically, I want to be able to analyse plants in the garden
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> ah
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[22:01] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=271090490545&cmd=VIDESC
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> wut
[22:02] <DrLuke> eek
[22:03] <bbjunkie> bargain!
[22:03] <bbjunkie> :)
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[23:30] <MLow> how did david stillmans balloon go?
[23:31] <MLow> it looked like it might have been tracked until landing, maybe
[23:32] <fsphil> 3km up is still a long way
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[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[23:52] <m0psi> hi
[23:53] <m0psi> i'm looking for a cheap supply of this kind of proto board:
[23:53] <m0psi> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Prototype-PCB-Stripboard-Printed-Circuit-Board-Strip-Vero-Board-/200817889057?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item2ec1adcf21
[23:53] <m0psi> this one seems a little steep
[23:53] <m0psi> anyone know of a better source
[23:54] <MLow> try radio shack
[23:54] <m0psi> in the UK
[23:55] <m0psi> are you in the US MLow?
[23:56] <MLow> sucks but yes
[23:56] <MLow> sometimes it doesnt suck
[23:56] <m0psi> :-)
[23:56] <MLow> like our regulations on radios
[23:57] <m0psi> indeed
[23:57] <m0psi> we can't tx from 'aircraft' :-(
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-100-x-160mm-Stripboard-Sim-Vero-Strip-Board-/360500893584?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item53ef871790
[23:59] <m0psi> yep, that is a better deal SpeedEvil, thanks
[23:59] <m0psi> i found that one too:
[23:59] <m0psi> http://www.ecomponentsuk.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=71-0005
[00:00] --- Sun Oct 28 2012