highaltitude.log.20121025

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[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> I'll have to adjust the cutdown routine, test the parsing again
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> I checked where we have 7.999999°E and that is just a few bus stops away
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> to check what happens when we go across a .0 longitude
[00:02] <daveake> Well you can test that stuff easily by generating the NMEA on a PC
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> radio range should be good but maybe we'll check that too
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I read that on the coding error page
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> I need a FTDI and then that Trosys software and then connect the FTDI to where the GPS would be?
[00:03] <daveake> Dunno what "Trosys" is, but yes an FTDI module. I wrote my own NMEA generator but of course you can download one
[00:04] <daveake> I fyou write your own you have to test that too :-)
[00:04] <daveake> I did that by converting the NMEA to KML then viewing in Google Earth
[00:05] <daveake> Well Buzz is finally turning east
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> I meant this part here http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing#testing_your_payload
[00:05] <daveake> Yeah sure do that
[00:08] <daveake> OK I have to sleep. nn. I'll leave IRC on but showing "away"
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> ok, good night!
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again
[00:08] <heathkid> anyone want to write an android app so I can launch my Galaxy S3?
[00:09] <heathkid> it's got pretty much everything it needs
[00:09] <KT5TK_QRL> GN Dave.
[00:09] <heathkid> add a half-dozen party balloons... and wrap it in a beer coozie... good to go! :P
[00:09] <KT5TK_QRL> I did this with my old G1 Android.
[00:10] <heathkid> nice
[00:10] <heathkid> nite daveake
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> good night from me too
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[00:10] <KT5TK_QRL> Pretty easy to do. Just use the http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
[00:11] <heathkid> does the insurance on my phone cover a balloon launch?
[00:11] <KT5TK_QRL> I used the GPS, created a voice message, took a photo and transmitted a SSTV picture with it
[00:11] <heathkid> and can I use the "where is my phone" thingy to track it? :)
[00:11] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, it'll cover the launch (but not the retrieval)
[00:12] <heathkid> figures
[00:12] <KT5TK_QRL> aprsdroid?
[00:12] <heathkid> hmmm
[00:13] <KT5TK_QRL> I simply connected the audio from the phone to a handytalkie
[00:13] <heathkid> it's got built-in GPS, accelerometer, gyro, TX/RX, HD camera... what more could you ask for?
[00:13] <heathkid> maybe better than launching my Yaesu VX8-DR
[00:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Unfortunately the GPS stopps at 60kft.
[00:14] <heathkid> on the GS3?
[00:14] <KT5TK_QRL> don't know, but it did on the G1
[00:14] <heathkid> well... mylars wouldn't make it that high anyway
[00:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Most GPS receivers end at 60 kft
[00:15] <KT5TK_QRL> A phone is still quite heavy
[00:15] <heathkid> now a 1500 gram Kaymont... hmmm
[00:15] <KT5TK_QRL> also you'll need a transmitter
[00:16] <KT5TK_QRL> http://tkrahn.dyndns.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4560
[00:18] <KT5TK_QRL> The G1 phone took some nice pics (unfortunately too bright) and also some short videos
[00:18] <heathkid> looks like the size of a cubesat
[00:19] <KT5TK_QRL> I think a cubesat is still smaller
[00:20] <heathkid> I can do a TX for any band (xtal based)... though probably 10m would be best for a j-pole hanging down
[00:20] <heathkid> no need for a DDS VFO
[00:21] <heathkid> I guess I need to decide if I want to do a mylar "PICO" launch or a real Kaymont based HAB...
[00:24] <heathkid> maybe start with a mylar pico launch... why not use a 60mW XBee module for a TX and add a couple tiny sensors + GPS?
[00:25] <heathkid> yes... tracking would be an issue
[00:25] <heathkid> but the radio is tiny and solid
[00:30] <KT5TK_QRL> Xbee is at 2.4 GHz and easily absorbed by humid air. Use a RFM module at 434 MHZ instead if you try such things
[00:43] <heathkid> 434 MHz works for me
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[00:57] <KT5TK_QRL> You can get one of the boards from Upu or I earlier thought about this one: http://jeelabs.com/products/jeenode
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[01:37] <heathkid> 915 MHz JeeNodes?
[01:37] <heathkid> I don't see any 434 MHz
[01:40] <heathkid> however, I do have a few baofeng uv-3r mk-ii radios I could strip down...
[01:40] <heathkid> complete they are only 140g
[01:41] <heathkid> without all the plastic and such... <100g
[01:41] <heathkid> or keep it complete and use a real Kaymont balloon
[01:41] <heathkid> add a micro
[01:41] <heathkid> gps
[01:41] <heathkid> a few sensors
[01:42] <heathkid> it's dual band so I could use 2m for uplink and 70cm for downlink
[01:42] <heathkid> 2-watts
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[01:43] <heathkid> maybe end up with a 300g payload max
[01:43] <heathkid> (with extra batts)
[01:43] <heathkid> and go for HAB launch instead of PICO
[01:43] <heathkid> I don't know
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[01:45] <heathkid> throw in some extras and keep it around 500g using a 1,500g Kaymont
[01:45] <heathkid> anyone besides me still use SSTV?
[01:45] <Darkside> i've used SSTV a bit
[01:46] <heathkid> I've used it for storm chasing... not for a balloon launch
[01:46] <heathkid> had a web cam mounted on my dashboard
[01:46] <Darkside> heathkid: http://i.imgur.com/gT8n3.jpg
[01:46] <heathkid> I'd get nowcasts... and upload web cam images of what radar was seeing
[01:47] <heathkid> Darkside: lots of noise in there
[01:47] <heathkid> but still... glad you're keeping it alive!
[01:47] <heathkid> SSTV must NOT die
[01:48] <heathkid> it's sort of the "dot matrix ascii art" of the radio world... but *works*!
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[03:44] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - PicoBuzz2"
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[05:43] <Upu_M0UPU> well that was a reasonable success :)
[05:44] <Upu_M0UPU> did anyone actually stay up or is our tracking network automatic these days :)
[05:47] <Darkside> haha
[05:50] <KT5TK> I was (am) still awake :)
[05:50] <Upu_M0UPU> well yes but :)
[05:53] <KT5TK> Pretty neat float through different weather zones
[05:53] <KT5TK> I think we can learn a lot from this data
[05:58] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
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[06:21] <navrac> well at least it turned east in the end - looks like the prediction was about right.
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[06:33] <fsphil> nice little flight path you have there
[06:39] <navrac2> interesting wasnt it
[06:41] <fsphil> two float altitudes
[06:41] <navrac2> came down really fast as soon as it got out over the sea
[06:42] <fsphil> oh that is interesting
[06:42] <fsphil> the second float altitude seems to have started as soon as it headed east
[06:42] <fsphil> guess there was a pressure difference in the atmosphere
[06:42] <navrac2> yep - thats what i figured
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[06:43] <navrac2> it was pretty heavy for a pico
[06:43] <bertrik> good morning
[06:44] <fsphil> mornin
[06:44] <navrac2> morning
[06:44] <navrac2> i keep expecting it to pop back up as soon sa the sun comes out
[06:45] <fsphil> that's possible
[06:45] <fsphil> although the payload will be dead
[06:45] <fsphil> if it dipped into the sea
[06:45] <navrac2> depends if it made the coast
[06:54] <navrac2> nothing onthe waterfall
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[07:07] <Burn_> Q) What's this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/cylindrical-ufo-videotaped-amateur-astronomer_n_2011817.html?ref=topbar#slide=1682852
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[07:09] <Burn_> it looks a hell of a lot like a big PE hyperblimp envelope
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[07:09] <Burn_> but I'm not sure what the light rails would be
[07:10] <Burn_> just reflection?
[07:10] <UpuWork> cylindrical PE balloon
[07:10] <UpuWork> probably the edge seals
[07:11] <Burn_> what are cylindrical PE balloons used for?
[07:12] <MrScienceMan> protections
[07:12] <MrScienceMan> protection*
[07:12] <Burn_> FYI:
[07:12] <Burn_> Burn_> Q) What's this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/cylindrical-ufo-videotaped-amateur-astronomer_n_2011817.html?ref=topbar#slide=1682852
[07:14] <Burn_> you normally see inverted teardrops or spheroids, not cylinders
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[07:15] <Burn_> http://smallblimps.lefora.com/2009/11/27/really-really-cheap-lift-bags/page4/ has pictures of something vaguely similar
[07:16] <Burn_> but the image doesn't look like it's verticla, it looks like the balloon is horizontal
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[07:18] <MrScienceMan> maybe somebody was testing a prototype
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[07:20] <Burn_> is plastic-sheet tubing in diameters of several meters indeed something you'll find on a construction site?
[07:21] <navrac2> yes
[07:21] <Burn_> is there a term for this tubing?
[07:21] <fsphil> or possibly someone stealing too much natural gas
[07:22] <navrac2> sorry no idea
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[07:25] <navrac2> layflat tubing is the name
[07:26] <navrac2> http://www.polybags.co.uk/shop/wide-layflat-tubing-18-48-wide_c1016.htm
[07:26] <Burn_> thanks
[07:27] <Burn_> 2.4m circumference x 85m length for £63
[07:28] <Burn_> maybe 4 large cylindrical blimps
[07:28] <Burn_> helium is way more expensive IIRC
[07:30] <griffonbot> @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/BBCAmos/status/261369055812911104]
[07:30] <navrac2> sadly the helium will leak out
[07:30] <Burn_> wjat
[07:30] <Burn_> what does it take to reduce leakage?
[07:31] <Burn_> aluminization?
[07:32] <costyn> morning
[07:34] <griffonbot> @Victrix75: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/Victrix75/status/261370147216953344]
[07:36] <navrac2> burn_ yes
[07:37] <fsphil> morning costyn
[07:37] <navrac2> or buy heptax and heat seal it with an iron - thats what i did. It wasnt cheap though
[07:38] <costyn> fsphil: really happy with your spotting of my buffer overflow. all my issues now resolved, my 3.3v pro mini tracker is done. time to make a housing for it. maiden flight will piggy back on one more flight that Tim is doing (yes he's temporarily coming out of retirement)
[07:39] <fsphil> lol
[07:39] <fsphil> if he says something is ready, check :)
[07:40] <costyn> yea :) going to make sure we measure neck lift this time
[07:40] <griffonbot> @StephenClark1: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/261371706734690304]
[07:41] <costyn> the Yale guys are really quiet after it all went titsup yesterday
[07:41] <fsphil> ah, forgot about that flight
[07:41] <griffonbot> @StarlitecTweets: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/StarlitecTweets/status/261371942462947328]
[07:41] <costyn> tracker shows it in the ocean, with some of the chase phones close to it on the shore
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[07:42] <LazyLeopard> Not the first time a payload's misbehaved and dunked itself in the drink. ;)
[07:43] <costyn> really funny how the title of the post is 'launching a balloon and not landing in the ocean' and it ends up in the ocean
[07:43] <LazyLeopard> I expect they'll get over it. ;)
[07:43] <costyn> LazyLeopard: certainly not, but these guys were re-inventing the wheel and not being very humble about it. they kinda deserved it
[07:44] <LazyLeopard> You'll notice my slight lack of sympathy for them... ;)
[07:44] <navrac2> I noticed they removed a lot of the tweets
[07:44] <LazyLeopard> They need a blog entry "Oops! Splosh!"
[07:44] <costyn> LazyLeopard: yup :)
[07:45] <number10> jonsowman: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!
[07:45] Action: jonsowman yawns
[07:46] <jonsowman> morning
[07:46] <number10> obviously not good enough
[07:46] <fsphil> wakeupwakeupwakeup
[07:46] <jonsowman> could do with being louder number10
[07:46] <number10> thats more like a girley mous screem
[07:46] <number10> +e
[07:46] <number10> a
[07:46] <jonsowman> :)
[07:47] <fsphil> so if there's a phone on this satellite, do we get points if we get a gsm yagi antenna, and phone it?
[07:47] <costyn> that is a LOT Of batteries: http://yaleaerospace.com/photos-2012-2013/#jp-carousel-715
[07:47] <jonsowman> you do fsphil
[07:47] <fsphil> excellent
[07:47] <fsphil> I'll order the base station and antenna now ;)
[07:48] <fsphil> eek, they had a gopro
[07:48] <navrac2> and an arduino
[07:48] <costyn> fsphil: yea... it's still working :) that casing is very good.
[07:48] <costyn> navrac2: looks like a mega
[07:49] <costyn> maybe they didn't use lithiums either hehe
[07:49] <costyn> The App also allows us to send data, namely it lets us extend the release timeout or release the balloon immediately. lol
[07:50] <UpuWork> lol at that yale balloon
[07:50] <fsphil> serious lack of testing or research
[07:50] <UpuWork> http://yaleaerospace.com/photos-2012-2013/#jp-carousel-717
[07:50] <UpuWork> haha wtf
[07:50] <costyn> fsphil: mostly research iyam :)
[07:50] <fsphil> that's just not excusable
[07:51] <UpuWork> seriously I hope that detects cosmic rays and aliens or something
[07:51] <costyn> hahaha
[07:51] <jonsowman> Ed C from CUSF is on BBC Radio Cambs right now
[07:51] <jonsowman> if anyone feels like listening
[07:51] <costyn> UpuWork: you should send them a pic of your tiny tracker, or daveake's :)
[07:52] <costyn> last comment on HAD "I think the word not needs to be removed from the title of this article.
[07:52] <costyn> haha
[07:52] <UpuWork> I was just thinking that :)
[07:52] <UpuWork> well hats off to them it sort of worked
[07:52] <UpuWork> but pls come speak to us
[07:52] <UpuWork> next time
[07:52] <costyn> my comment is still waiting moderation grr... made a large post with nice links to the burst calc, predictor and tracker page
[07:53] <griffonbot> @buk15below: RT @BBCAmos Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/FQ2NgCZa [http://twitter.com/buk15below/status/261374816509116416]
[07:53] <number10> weird and wacky experiment :)
[07:55] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, it sorta worked. Hope they'll have another try, and get their pictures back next time. ;)
[07:56] <number10> I think you may get a lot of publicity on that jonsowman
[07:56] <jonsowman> number10: that is the main idea ;)
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[07:59] <cuddykid> pico did well
[08:00] <number10> itd did - I see daveake1 left the ditch_in_sea() algorithm in the code
[08:02] <number10> jonsowman: I left the radio on, scream was also in the news on bbc cambs
[08:02] <jonsowman> :)
[08:03] <jonsowman> the engineering dept's publicity guy is doing well
[08:03] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[08:03] <daveake> morning
[08:03] <number10> morning
[08:04] <daveake> After managing to survive the drops last night, I thought Buzz would make it at least tonow
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[08:07] <daveake> Did well though
[08:07] <number10> it did
[08:08] <fsphil> the air heading east was probably a bit colder
[08:08] <fsphil> that seems to be a cold front it hit
[08:11] <griffonbot> @TheManuell: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/TheManuell/status/261379371238031360]
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[08:25] <griffonbot> @edmaxsherman: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/edmaxsherman/status/261383072686170112]
[08:29] <griffonbot> @DrChrisBridges: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/DrChrisBridges/status/261383977284280320]
[08:31] <fsphil> I might scream on earth soon :)
[08:31] <jonsowman> lol
[08:33] <number10> you may get some strange looks at work
[08:39] <fsphil> oh it was a work thing
[08:39] <fsphil> I just noticed this message attached to an order: "CONFRIM ALL IS CORRETC BEFORE PORCEEDING WITH ORDER PLEASE CAN YOU CONFRIM"
[08:39] <griffonbot> @ericarolfe: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for smartphone app riding onboard STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/29YHa5OU [http://twitter.com/ericarolfe/status/261386497855463424]
[08:40] <griffonbot> @Rexaboo: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/Rexaboo/status/261386781021306880]
[08:40] <fsphil> I can confrim that this person cannot speel corretcly
[08:41] <griffonbot> @danielscuka: In space, no one can hear you scream #alien :-) RT @ericarolfe @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/EATrx6Hj [http://twitter.com/danielscuka/status/261386974122897408]
[08:41] <fsphil> *woosh*
[08:41] <x-f> or suffers from dyslexia
[08:42] <fsphil> nope, just can't spell
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[08:51] <griffonbot> @HL_Peter: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/HL_Peter/status/261389509948755968]
[08:54] <costyn> hmm scream in space site's been overrun
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[08:58] <fsphil> I'm tempted to submit something
[08:59] <number10> do a full day of VB and then do it fsphil
[08:59] <fsphil> I'll be very disappointed if nobody submits Kirk's "KAAAAHHHNNNN"
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[09:00] <fsphil> good idea number10
[09:00] <fsphil> actually I have a cunning plan
[09:01] <Randomskk> costyn: it has?
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[09:03] <costyn> Randomskk: dunno, doesn't load for me
[09:04] <number10> I hope thats not trying to bribe two of the judges that come on ths channel fsphil
[09:04] <costyn> Randomskk: working now
[09:04] <Randomskk> costyn: interesting. what error?
[09:04] <Randomskk> it should definitely handle load
[09:05] <costyn> Randomskk: just kept loading, but it's probably my computer; been doing that more lately
[09:05] <Randomskk> but there might be a random bug that crops on rarely which we haven't found
[09:05] <Randomskk> in any event monitoring says it's all ok :/
[09:05] <costyn> Randomskk: I'm sure it's ok, something weird going on my chrome browser at times
[09:06] <Randomskk> ok
[09:06] <costyn> Randomskk: sorry, didn't mean to get you alarmed
[09:06] <costyn> :)
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[09:07] <Randomskk> :P
[09:08] <MLow> anything in the air?
[09:09] <costyn> MLow: nope... there was ystrday, but it went splishy splashy
[09:09] <costyn> MLow: actually picobuzz went splash this morning
[09:10] <costyn> as did the Yale "experiment" which enjoyed making fun of
[09:10] <costyn> *which we enjoyed"
[09:10] <MLow> yale ?
[09:10] <costyn> MLow: http://yaleaerospace.com/skyview/
[09:10] <costyn> MLow: http://hackaday.com/2012/10/24/launching-a-balloon-and-not-landing-in-the-ocean/ <-- it landed in the ocean
[09:15] <MLow> lol
[09:16] <NavracWork> we shouldnt have laughed really - but since this was so innovative what with a cutdown and gopro camera and 3 tracker systems we couldnt help laugh when the telemetry failed at 3km and it ended in the sea
[09:17] <NavracWork> we realised it was going badly when one of the tracker cellphone locations was in a boatyard...
[09:18] <NavracWork> though hats off for them for trying
[09:19] <MLow> that thing is huge
[09:19] <MLow> how did they lose it lol
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[09:20] <MLow> on a serious note, wowies go pro on a balloon/
[09:20] <MLow> ?
[09:20] <MLow> in the US, aprs or nothing
[09:21] <MLow> huge aprs network
[09:22] <MLow> i often times wonder if my balloon will ever launch tho, so kudos for them getting one up
[09:22] <MLow> and down
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[09:23] <eroomde> that's not that huge!
[09:23] <MLow> nearest water from here is gulf
[09:23] <eroomde> lots of stuff used to look like that in the early days
[09:23] <eroomde> the tiny-boxes movement is a more recent thing
[09:24] <MLow> 150mi or so away is gulf of mexico
[09:24] <MLow> eroomde: i think i was actually trying to point that out, and that its probably half empty or useless batteries
[09:25] <kokey> heh, looks like picobuzz is going to find land
[09:25] <fsphil> I've got ocean about 30km away in all directions except south
[09:25] <eroomde> not half full?
[09:25] <MLow> the US is kinda big tho
[09:26] <MLow> 30km isnt much
[09:27] <MLow> dont balloons drift more than that most of the time
[09:27] <fsphil> yea, it's not a big problem as long as I pay attention to the predictor
[09:28] <fsphil> or resist the urge to try and land in england :)
[09:28] <MLow> which tiny country you hail from
[09:28] <fsphil> n.ireland
[09:29] <eroomde> hail being the operative word
[09:29] <kokey> at least it's not gibraltar
[09:30] <MLow> is that the one shaped like a teddy bear or a boot?
[09:30] <MLow> :)
[09:31] <griffonbot> @Bob_MatPhys: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/Bob_MatPhys/status/261399448637280257]
[09:31] <eroomde> sigh
[09:32] <fsphil> it's not worth it eroomde :)
[09:33] <MLow> did i say something to offend?
[09:33] <MLow> my bad
[09:34] <fsphil> I think it was the scream thing :)
[09:35] <MLow> i have no interest in that sounds lame
[09:35] <MLow> ive already seen that a siren is inaudible at 100k ft
[09:35] <MLow> physics, they work
[09:36] <fsphil> it's still not as bad as wasting bandwidth by sending a horrible song to mars and back
[09:36] <MLow> its more like...mail than bandwidth
[09:36] <MLow> but ya
[09:36] <MLow> more a waste of kg's on a craft
[09:36] <MLow> in a way yeah bandwidth
[09:37] <eroomde> this is a mighty russian accent
[09:37] <eroomde> from a painist i like
[09:37] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctsfMOcdxk&feature=g-all-u
[09:37] <eroomde> even thought she says to ignore it
[09:37] <NavracWork> isnt there a /ignore command?
[09:39] <fsphil> NavracWork's been awful quiet today
[09:39] <griffonbot> @Marcel0Lowrie: My blog about sending stuff to near space. http://t.co/Qqbu5KZ0 #CUSF [http://twitter.com/Marcel0Lowrie/status/261401608989057024]
[09:39] <MLow> hehe
[09:40] <eroomde> why the cusf tag?
[09:40] <NavracWork> :p
[09:40] <MLow> it pings here
[09:40] <Randomskk> so does #ukhas
[09:40] <Randomskk> more relevantly
[09:40] <MLow> good point
[09:40] <MLow> noted
[09:40] <eroomde> saying 'i am barack obama' probably pings if i call up a hotel too
[09:40] <eroomde> but it would be a lie
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[09:41] <fsphil> I think the accent would give it away
[09:41] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/261402070253457408]
[09:41] <MLow> omg
[09:41] <MLow> thats the same one
[09:41] <eroomde> but now cusf are retweeting it
[09:41] <griffonbot> @screaminspace: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/screaminspace/status/261402198821453824]
[09:42] <eroomde> because it was by a noted bbc journalist, about them
[09:42] <MLow> well hey i need some coverage here too
[09:43] <MLow> throw some sponsor money my way
[09:43] <fsphil> do you accept After 8 mints?
[09:43] <eroomde> do something someone wants to sponsor
[09:43] <MLow> only black black gum
[09:43] <MLow> hmmm
[09:43] <MLow> yeah your right i dont want to sell my soul
[09:44] <eroomde> i do sense the slightly laconic prose of an adam on the website
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[09:45] <eroomde> "We're carrying out an experiment that will change the scientific world forever."
[09:45] <fsphil> elvis adam?
[09:45] <Randomskk> at least use a first initial too :P
[09:46] <MLow> maybe i should consider putting multiple trackers on my payload
[09:46] <MLow> some go pro
[09:46] <eroomde> whose voice is that in the vid Randomskk?
[09:46] <MLow> has anyone seeked out sponsorship with go pro/
[09:46] <MLow> they seem to get a lot of free PR
[09:47] <eroomde> it's not the best idea to ask for sponsorship from companies when you're just doing what their customers do
[09:47] <eroomde> i.e. "hey i'm going to get awesome extreme footage from my extreme adventure to spaaaaaace, can you give me a free camera?"
[09:47] <eroomde> "no, just buy one like the hundreds of other hab flights have"
[09:48] <eroomde> do something that comes at a target company sideways
[09:48] <Randomskk> eroomde: ed c I think
[09:48] <eroomde> get your maching done by a firm that normally does machining for the meat packing machinery industry
[09:48] <eroomde> or something
[09:48] <Randomskk> eroomde: yes, all that machining you need for a HAB flight :P
[09:48] <eroomde> well, for an interesting one
[09:48] <Randomskk> hehe
[09:49] <eroomde> but do you see what i mean MLow?
[09:49] <eroomde> i speak as someone who has spent a lot of time extracting monies and things from companies in the name of hab
[09:49] <kokey> kittens always work
[09:50] <kokey> launch cute kittens
[09:50] <daveake> We're getting a kitten this weekend. That's handy ...
[09:51] <eroomde> ah awesome
[09:51] <kokey> first kitteh in spaaaace
[09:51] <eroomde> i've always thought when i've been at your place
[09:51] <eroomde> 'y'know, there's something this place is missing...'
[09:51] <daveake> "could do with more cats"?
[09:51] <fsphil> I've got a bad feline about this
[09:52] <number10> more screens in hab control
[09:52] <eroomde> and that
[09:53] <daveake> ah yes, true :D
[09:53] <MLow> i think i understand
[09:53] <MLow> and my project is just sitting at a standstill because of lack of funds like all too many
[09:53] <eroomde> yeah
[09:53] <eroomde> it happens
[09:53] <daveake> Well if anyone in north norfolk wants a tracker, you've got till midday when the batteries die
[09:54] <MLow> does it come with free air tickets?
[09:54] <number10> thats what we are lacking - a tracker in norfolk
[09:55] <MLow> i thought about seeking some partial sponsorship from a welding supply place for gas
[09:55] <eroomde> that could work
[09:55] <eroomde> tho
[09:56] <MLow> i have a youtube channel with quite a few views, so that could be helpful
[09:56] <eroomde> they don;t really use hydrogen or helium
[09:56] <MLow> they do over here :S
[09:56] <MLow> helium and hydrogen for welding
[09:56] <eroomde> for welding?
[09:56] <Randomskk> hydrogen?
[09:56] <Randomskk> welding?
[09:56] <MLow> well, not so much welding as cutting
[09:56] <MLow> same thing
[09:56] <eroomde> what is the application of hydrogen in welding!?
[09:57] <gonzo_> they may still be able to order it from their suppliers.
[09:57] <gonzo_> even if they don't normally carry it
[09:57] <eroomde> sure, i mean ask, but if i was a company like that and i had a bottle of x that i stocked and i wanted x, that's much easier than having to order in something new specially
[09:58] <eroomde> and doing the paperwork to sotre it
[09:58] <eroomde> store*
[09:59] <daveake> They should have no problem getting hydrogen. Helium is another matter
[09:59] <eroomde> i'm not even talking about availability
[09:59] <daveake> But as eroomde says, they may not want to for other reasons
[10:01] <MLow> i think i understand
[10:01] <eroomde> but definitely ask
[10:03] <MLow> couldnt hurt right?
[10:03] <MLow> just trying to think outside the box, but not too far, for free moneys in the name of science
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[10:04] <griffonbot> @howellspace: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/howellspace/status/261407900294057984]
[10:06] <MLow> i think ill head to bed lol
[10:06] <eroomde> keep plugging away
[10:07] <MLow> well i thought i had a tracker working
[10:07] <MLow> but eh
[10:07] <MLow> ill keep at that
[10:07] <MLow> in the mean time i have a fun new toy to play with, a 10" tablet to keep me busy
[10:08] <MLow> i fear i might end up selling it to fund a balloon though
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[10:18] <NavracWork> daveake: Can't help with a tracker in Norfolk - I'm as far north as I care to go - the natives are funny up there
[10:19] <daveake> np i aimed to lose it!
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[10:33] <craag> daveake: Did you say buzz had 9g of free lift?
[10:34] <daveake> Yes
[10:34] <daveake> I'll get the figures from my notes and I'll update the flight data page in the wiki
[10:34] <craag> How come you got a similar result to pico that only had 1.5g?
[10:35] <daveake> Good question
[10:37] <craag> Maybe his just cancelled out lift-wise and yours actually superpressured?
[10:38] <craag> (ie. his balloon was not 100% full at float)
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[10:43] <gonzo_> single foil?
[10:43] <daveake> Yup
[10:44] <daveake> 41g payload
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[10:54] <Laurenceb_> anyone looked for it this morning?
[10:55] <daveake> Not that I know of. No need - I don't especially want it back! Batteries will die around midday.
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[11:00] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> so no signal earlier?
[11:01] <daveake> Signal was lost at about 500m altitude, during the night - I think all the trackers were asleep by then
[11:02] <daveake> With no-one around to get closer, it's lost. Which was the plan anyway!
[11:03] <daveake> That tracker played up when used in a "proper" flight, so I don't especially want it back
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> looked like it hit water to me
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> mist etc
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> like dan was describing at the conference
[11:03] <daveake> Yes
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> well i need to head off, cya
[11:04] <daveake> cya
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[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> I got a short question on payload testing as described here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing#testing_your_payload
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[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> when I get it right, you have an FTDI connected to where the GPS would be that feeds the data of the simulated flight into the arduino RX
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> but in my code, I poll the ublox for position data
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> so that doesn't work, right?
[11:16] <Darkside> yeah, that wouldn't work
[11:16] <Darkside> unless you wrote code to wait for the polling and generate the required data
[11:16] <Darkside> hook up a GPS and see if it works!
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander> hm, my GPS code is based on eurus, there the functions are called in the loop, i.e. the loop runs, asks the gps for lock, position and time
[11:19] <daveake> As Darkside says, you would need to find/write a program on the PC that behaves like a UBlox GPS, for the commands/replies that you are using
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[11:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:20] <Lunar_Lander> so that way described in a wiki is for like GPSs which just output NMEA in a constant stream?
[11:20] <daveake> yes
[11:21] Nick change: Nabobalis -> zz_Nabobalis
[11:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[11:21] <Lunar_Lander> thanks, that saved me some hair pulling for sure
[11:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[11:22] <Lunar_Lander> actually that kept me awake until 4 am
[11:24] <number10> ah you could have tracked picobuzz while you were up
[11:24] <daveake> :D
[11:24] <daveake> It's very simple. Whatever runs on the PC has to behave like (or enough like) the device it's pretending to be (or emulating)
[11:24] <daveake> I write emulators for many of my projects
[11:24] Nick change: Cadair_away -> Cadair
[11:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:25] <daveake> When my software is monitoring or controlling some factory equipment, it's rather convenient to be able to test in my office rather than in a factory
[11:25] <Lunar_Lander> number10, sorry, I think it would still have been too far away and too low for me to hear :(
[11:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:26] <daveake> No flights in the next 2-3 days? If not I'll take my aerial down.
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[11:31] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, I just found this here http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/gps-emulator-now-outputs-ublox
[11:31] <Randomskk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20073779 haha
[11:31] Nick change: zz_Nabobalis -> Nabobalis
[11:31] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: nice! bookmarked
[11:32] <daveake> Lunar - Yes that might do it.
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[11:33] <daveake> Randomskk - My first flight I had a constant piezo buzzer running for the whole flight. It was audible on the video footage but did get noticeably quieter with altitude (up to 99,000 feet IIRC)
[11:34] <Randomskk> haha
[11:34] <Randomskk> we're not so fussed about the science really I don't think
[11:34] <Randomskk> I mean it'l be in LEO
[11:34] <daveake> Er, no :)
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[11:34] <Randomskk> so pretty hard vacuum
[11:34] <Randomskk> but yea, mechanically coupled...
[11:34] <costyn> is it the same phone that's generating the sound and listening to it?
[11:34] <Randomskk> yes :P
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[11:35] <costyn> well that's a bit predictable then :)
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[11:35] <daveake> It can be science ... https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/10/16/-5TjjbSGuESa7fNUOFGjwg2.gif :)
[11:35] <costyn> daveake: hehehe
[11:35] <radim_OM2AMR> very good afternoon to all
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello radim_OM2AMR
[11:36] <radim_OM2AMR> are there some any problems with predictor ? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e998e32860276a4a4a14ae41af7e72ab36cd7ff1
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[11:36] <radim_OM2AMR> or just wrong GFS data sources ?
[11:36] <radim_OM2AMR> Hello Lunar_Lander ;-)
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[11:37] <costyn> very strong southerly winds
[11:37] <radim_OM2AMR> costyn :-D
[11:37] <costyn> :)
[11:38] <x-f> radim_OM2AMR, try the "GFS HD" option, it works
[11:39] <radim_OM2AMR> x-f, thank you, it works, great ;-)
[11:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again daveake Darkside !
[11:39] <Lunar_Lander> cu later all
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[12:09] <cuddykid> excellent, 1 pcb done with only 2 DRC errors
[12:09] <eroomde> ignore them
[12:09] <eroomde> it's fine to ignore drc errors
[12:09] <cuddykid> quite a routing mess though
[12:10] <cuddykid> eroomde: joking right?
[12:10] <cuddykid> :P
[12:10] <fsphil> I'm not sure what the dominican republic of congo has to do with circuit boards
[12:10] <eroomde> yes
[12:12] <cuddykid> lol
[12:12] <cuddykid> just need to make some traces thicker as some are 6mil
[12:13] <Darkside> hrmm mils
[12:13] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/7slZj.png
[12:13] <Darkside> i prefer to work in metric
[12:13] <Darkside> i can visualise it better
[12:13] <Randomskk> cuddykid: eroomde's joke is even funnier when you see what happened one time he ignored "some" DRC errors
[12:14] <cuddykid> oh right!
[12:14] <Darkside> cuddykid: you do know what a ground plane is, right?
[12:14] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:14] <Darkside> you need to use one
[12:14] <Darkside> wheres the GSM antenna socket?
[12:14] <cuddykid> Darkside: better?
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[12:15] <cuddykid> GSM ant socket is on the module itself
[12:15] <Darkside> ahh ok
[12:15] <Darkside> good
[12:15] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/ifJgE.png
[12:15] <Darkside> right, thats looking better
[12:15] <Darkside> some weird routing there though
[12:15] <Darkside> clean it up a bit
[12:15] <Darkside> :-)
[12:15] <cuddykid> tbh, I'm expecting it not to work - nightmare trying to follow the datasheet
[12:15] <cuddykid> yep, will do
[12:15] <Darkside> look at a reference design
[12:15] <Darkside> im sure theres one somewhere
[12:16] <Darkside> wait, whats up with the crystal
[12:16] <cuddykid> what do you mean?
[12:16] <cuddykid> 8mhz
[12:17] <Darkside> well, the traces on it
[12:17] <Darkside> they go all over the place
[12:17] <cuddykid> a lot go underneath
[12:17] <Darkside> err
[12:17] <Darkside> oh i see
[12:17] <Darkside> you need to move the two 18pF caps right next to the crystal
[12:17] <Darkside> those traces are far far far FAR too long
[12:17] <cuddykid> ah ok
[12:18] <Darkside> ill give you an example of what i mean, hold on
[12:19] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/CWDxK.jpg
[12:19] <Darkside> also what are you planning on using this gsm module thing for?
[12:20] <Darkside> i doubt the gps in it would work >18km
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[12:21] <Darkside> anyway, you can see what i mean in that pic
[12:21] <Darkside> crystal right near the microcontroller, with the caps as close as i can to the crystal
[12:22] <Darkside> i could have also put the capacitors on the bottom layer instead, that would have worked just as well
[12:22] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[12:22] <Darkside> though in this case i'm putting the crystal on the other side of the board, for manufacturing reasons (no through-hole plating)
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[12:24] Nick change: Cadair_away -> Cadair
[12:28] <zyp> why do you guys use those pth crystals?
[12:28] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[12:28] <UpuWork> use SMD vregs
[12:28] <UpuWork> :)
[12:29] <Darkside> hehe
[12:29] <Darkside> depends on the current draw
[12:29] <cuddykid> hiya UpuWork - I was going to but the GSM module draws up to 2A during transmit periods
[12:29] <Darkside> eek
[12:29] <UpuWork> haha
[12:29] <UpuWork> better plan
[12:29] <cuddykid> the output current on the vreg I'm using atm is a little higher so went with that
[12:29] <UpuWork> leave the GSM module on the ground
[12:29] <Darkside> yep
[12:29] <Darkside> +1 to that
[12:29] <jonsowman> agreed
[12:29] <jonsowman> 2A!
[12:30] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[12:30] <UpuWork> poor cuddykid, in 3 lines 3 months of planning and work out of the window :)
[12:30] <cuddykid> lol
[12:31] <cuddykid> right, getting lunch bbl
[12:31] <daveake> 2A in very short bursts I suspect. Add suitable caps
[12:31] <Darkside> probably easier to throw in a cheap gsm tracker tbh
[12:31] <daveake> Or leave it on the ground :)
[12:31] Action: MiniMail jumps in! Hello!
[12:31] <Darkside> and cheaper in terms of dev time
[12:31] <UpuWork> hi MiniMail
[12:31] <MiniMail> hi hi =)
[12:32] <MiniMail> nothing new?
[12:32] Nick change: Cadair_away -> Cadair
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[12:33] <MiniMail> ok
[12:33] <MiniMail> :P
[12:34] <MiniMail> the sound of silence. -.^
[12:34] <eroomde> new since when?
[12:34] <MiniMail> i dont know :)
[12:34] <MiniMail> its snowing here now. 1st snow.
[12:35] <eroomde> where are you?
[12:35] <MiniMail> +1 outside
[12:35] <MiniMail> Finland
[12:35] <eroomde> '1st snow'
[12:35] <eroomde> .... since yesterday?
[12:35] <MiniMail> first snow
[12:35] <MiniMail> now
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[12:35] <MiniMail> just started snowin
[12:36] <MiniMail> g
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[12:37] <eroomde> nice
[12:37] <eroomde> i think we're getting your weather on friday
[12:37] <MiniMail> nice :)
[12:37] Action: fsphil is looking forward to some sonw
[12:37] <fsphil> er
[12:37] <fsphil> snow
[12:38] <MiniMail> i dont -.-
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[12:38] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/197438_535408033139912_1156137848_n.jpg
[12:38] <fsphil> when it snows there, it probably snows a lot
[12:38] <nosebleedkt> me on the right
[12:38] <fsphil> what we call snow is about 5cm deep at most
[12:38] <MiniMail> fsphil: yupp.
[12:38] <MiniMail> haha
[12:38] <nosebleedkt> in front of me greek nasa scientist !
[12:38] <nosebleedkt> i gave him my EPOd
[12:38] <MiniMail> 15cm its nothing here :p
[12:39] <nosebleedkt> and he asked me to write my autogrraph on the rare
[12:39] <nosebleedkt> so nasa scientists ask my autograph - like a boss i gave it - hahahahhaha
[12:39] <costyn> nosebleedkt: niiiiice
[12:39] <costyn> :)
[12:40] <nosebleedkt> :D
[12:41] <nosebleedkt> that guy builds the APXS sensor on all nasa's rover including curiocity
[12:41] <nosebleedkt> alpha spectometer
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[12:42] <nosebleedkt> he passed from my city for some work and he gave a speech
[12:42] <daveake> yup
[12:42] <nosebleedkt> i went to find him
[12:42] <costyn> very cool
[12:42] <daveake> ignore me wrong window
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[12:54] <daveake> costyn your post (well one of them at least) made it to hackaday
[12:54] <costyn> daveake: yea both of them are on there now :)
[12:54] <daveake> :)
[12:55] <daveake> Yale make the SHARP guys look sharo
[12:55] <daveake> p
[12:55] <fsphil> fale
[12:55] <costyn> daveake: I missed that. Another story of wild assumptions and fingers crossed? :)
[12:56] <Darkside> also their 'innovative' cutdown system
[12:56] <Darkside> that everyone has done before
[12:56] <daveake> costyn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHeOpNwYbw
[12:56] <daveake> Prepar to giggle. A lot.
[12:56] <Darkside> theres a video?
[12:56] <daveake> +e
[12:56] <Darkside> wait, thats sharp
[12:57] <daveake> Yes, I was comparing them :)
[12:57] <mattbrejza> tbh sharp was an electronics project done by non electronic engineers, and it did work, just had more than usual unfortinate bugs
[12:57] <daveake> yep
[12:58] <Darkside> is that the group that were using the .NEt thing?
[12:58] <daveake> yep
[12:58] <mattbrejza> yea
[12:58] <Darkside> heh
[12:58] <daveake> that bit was sad
[12:58] <mattbrejza> it was given to them in that form mind you
[12:58] <mattbrejza> the projects running again this year
[12:58] <Darkside> almost as bad as using a raspberry pi as a tracker
[12:58] <daveake> lol
[12:58] <staylo> I support anything that gets .net as far away from me as possible
[12:59] <fsphil> raspberry pi running .net
[13:00] <Darkside> mono
[13:00] <Darkside> lol
[13:00] <costyn> i was going to say
[13:00] <costyn> that was the HOT subject x years ago
[13:00] <Darkside> oh man
[13:00] <Darkside> write a tracker in nodejs
[13:00] <fsphil> lol
[13:00] <Darkside> or ruby
[13:00] <fsphil> perl
[13:00] <Darkside> hipsterific!
[13:00] <fsphil> nothing can be done incorrectly in perl
[13:01] <daveake> Do nothing in it then
[13:01] <BrainDamage> I read that as "nothing, can be done incorrectly in perl"
[13:02] <costyn> daveake: I didn't cringe and giggle as much actually
[13:02] <daveake> s/pel/javascript
[13:03] <costyn> daveake: except that last bit where they test the cutdown
[13:03] <costyn> hehe
[13:03] <daveake> s/javascript/Visual Basic
[13:03] <fsphil> DIE
[13:03] <Darkside> ooooh
[13:03] <costyn> brainfuck
[13:03] <Darkside> a payload written in VB
[13:03] <daveake> the cutdown is a classic
[13:03] <fsphil> YOU ARE ALL GOING TO PROGRAMMING HELL
[13:03] <BrainDamage> VB4, not even .net
[13:03] <Darkside> VBA?
[13:03] <daveake> 10: PRINT "$$...."; 20: GOTO 10
[13:04] <costyn> http://lolcode.com/
[13:04] <Darkside> PC104 running windows XP, with a excel spreadsheet macro that talks to a serial port
[13:04] <Darkside> im sure it can be done
[13:04] <fsphil> lol
[13:04] <daveake> it can
[13:04] <fsphil> we have an expert in that area
[13:04] <Darkside> yep
[13:04] <Darkside> totally needs to be flown
[13:04] <Darkside> just for something ridiculous
[13:04] <daveake> Minus HAB points for the most complex/ridiculous method
[13:04] <costyn> haha
[13:04] <costyn> daveake: why minus, if it ends up working
[13:04] <daveake> -32767
[13:04] <Darkside> just because it works doesn't mean it is good
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[13:05] <number10> did you call daveake ?
[13:05] <costyn> 1st Obfuscated HAB competition
[13:05] <Darkside> daveake: so i shoud launch twice and i'll be back to where i started!
[13:05] <daveake> Which in number10's HAB Point Calculator is a big number
[13:05] <daveake> :D
[13:05] <Darkside> costyn: we almost did that
[13:05] <Darkside> we had a launch with an associated compedition
[13:05] <fsphil> I'm still hoping to fly the 6510 cpu some day, if I can figure out how to wire it up
[13:05] <Darkside> where i wrote code to include an incremental offset in the position
[13:05] <Darkside> so by the time it landed it was about 2km out
[13:05] <costyn> hehe
[13:05] <number10> I am having trouble remembering who had the signed altitude bug before me
[13:05] <costyn> Darkside: but why?
[13:05] <Darkside> and i had modified our oziplotter code to remove the offset
[13:05] <daveake> number10 Do you have your IRC client set up to alert you when "-32767" is mentioned? :)
[13:05] <costyn> hahaha
[13:05] <fsphil> number10: very nearly me, but caught just before launch
[13:06] <Darkside> costyn: because there were goign to be other people chasing, and the first people to the payload would win a radio
[13:06] <number10> I suppose its the last one who had it gets remembered
[13:06] <daveake> yep
[13:06] <Darkside> but given where it landed, we were the first to the payload anyway
[13:06] <Darkside> so meh
[13:06] <fsphil> I've only crossed the meridian once anyway so not as critical for me
[13:06] <costyn> Darkside: that is hilarious
[13:06] <Darkside> oh good lord, the writeups are up
[13:06] <number10> my pc has a script running that detects anything -32767 daveake
[13:06] <Darkside> projecthorus.org is UP TO DATE
[13:06] <Darkside> WHAT IS THIS MADNESS
[13:06] <Darkside> wait its missing Horus 29
[13:06] <Darkside> nevermind
[13:07] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/spacenearus_screengrab.jpg
[13:07] <fsphil> my website still says I'm planning to launch last month
[13:07] <daveake> Does it have the one you did with me?
[13:07] <Darkside> Hotus 26/27
[13:07] <Darkside> daveake: yep
[13:07] <Darkside> we just linked to your blog
[13:07] <Darkside> :P
[13:07] <fsphil> actually worse... "I'm hoping to launch late July 2012"
[13:07] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=2361
[13:07] <Darkside> wait thats not right
[13:07] <Darkside> average ascent rate: 34.1m/s
[13:07] <Darkside> lol
[13:08] <Darkside> better fix that...
[13:08] <Darkside> i think his stats script is broken
[13:08] <daveake> You should link to The Register too
[13:08] <fsphil> so when are Horus doing their first rocket launch?
[13:08] <Darkside> daveake: can you link it to me?
[13:08] <Darkside> ill put it on the page
[13:09] <daveake> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/11/hab_ashes/page2.html
[13:09] <daveake> I googled for "the register mark dave ginger" :)
[13:10] <number10> surely dave mark ginger
[13:10] <daveake> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/11/hab_ashes/ <-- first page
[13:10] <daveake> true
[13:10] <daveake> We got some more of that in
[13:10] <costyn> Darkside: that's a nice yagi you have there... what is it?
[13:10] <Darkside> added
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[13:10] <Darkside> costyn: thats probably daves yagi
[13:11] <costyn> looks perfect for field work
[13:11] <Darkside> i prefer my 3 element arrow
[13:11] <Darkside> but i didn't have it with me at the time
[13:11] <daveake> Oh yeah, I like my little yagi
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[13:11] <daveake> Nice size
[13:11] <Darkside> im a little bit dubious about the element spacing on it
[13:12] <Darkside> its a lot shorter than my 7 element arrow yagi
[13:12] <daveake> Well, it's worked from here into Belgium/Holland/Framce
[13:12] <number10> I have the same one - I'll stick it on a network analyser
[13:12] <costyn> daveake: what make/model is it?
[13:12] <Darkside> also thats a ZL special
[13:12] <daveake> http://www.moonraker.eu/ZL-Special-Yagi-Antenna
[13:12] <Darkside> yep
[13:12] <costyn> thanks
[13:13] <daveake> This one in particular http://www.moonraker.eu/Amateur-Radio/Beam-and-Yagi-Antennas/ZL-Special-Yagi-Antenna/ZL7-70-70cm-7-ELEMENT-SPECIAL-YAGI-ANTENNA
[13:13] <number10> works fine for me too - I think rocketboy also has one
[13:13] <daveake> he does
[13:18] <Darkside> http://ten.com.au/video-player.htm?movideo_p=41457&movideo_m=231606
[13:18] <Darkside> does this work for anyone?
[13:18] <Darkside> im betting it's region locked
[13:18] <cuddykid> odd - just had a call from my local bbc radio station 'checking up' to see if I have any other projects in the pipeline lol
[13:19] <cuddykid> going to get me a slot next week to talk about the 'HABE Lab'
[13:19] <number10> disabled Darkside
[13:19] <Darkside> boo
[13:19] <daveake> same
[13:20] <MiniMail> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nicklaslindgard my WebCam :)
[13:21] <cuddykid> snowy
[13:21] <number10> cars are driving on the wrong side there - you need o get that fixed
[13:21] <costyn> number10: bah, silly islanders
[13:22] <MiniMail> number10: hahahahaa :) good one :)
[13:23] <MiniMail> i dont know how to show temperature -.-
[13:23] <kokey> the first 5 countries I've been to in my life all drove on the left
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[13:25] <MiniMail> weird people -_-
[13:26] <number10> everyone used to drive on the left with horses - the USA changed it in the 18th century
[13:27] <number10> and then the french changed it as they didnt like us... infact noone apart from the ozzies liked us then so they all changed
[13:28] <daveake> Was it Sweden that changed over in the 60's?
[13:28] <MiniMail> hehe :)
[13:29] <number10> now that the ozzies no longer like us we are expecting them to change over
[13:29] <gonzo_> going to cahnge over in stages? Buses and lorries first?
[13:29] <daveake> They should do it in stages. Trucks one week cars the next ....
[13:30] <gonzo_> snap!
[13:30] <daveake> :)
[13:31] <prawnsalad> hey guys. is there a sort of "main" tracker, or does everyone have their own tracker for their own flights?
[13:31] <number10> every one does their own thing
[13:32] <prawnsalad> ah ok
[13:32] <number10> if you alre talking about what goes up with the balloon
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[13:32] <prawnsalad> correct
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[13:33] <prawnsalad> i was under the impression that many people linked up their trackers to the same server for some reason
[13:33] <daveake> Same server yes
[13:33] <number10> oh, on the ground we use the same tracker
[13:33] <daveake> People build and code their own (airborne) trackers
[13:33] <gonzo_> time to start defining the terminology
[13:34] <prawnsalad> sorry yea, by 'tracker' i mean the listeners on the ground..
[13:34] <prawnsalad> maybe im using incorrect terms :)
[13:34] <daveake> The transmitted telemetry differs but not markedly, and the server is configured so it knows what to expect
[13:34] <kokey> yeah tracker would normally mean something that tracks something else
[13:34] <daveake> It's confusing
[13:34] <kokey> in the case of the tracker on the payload, it tracks its own location
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> Folks who build trackers that match expectations get tracked ;)
[13:35] <gonzo_> there is no fixed jargon here.
[13:35] <prawnsalad> heh
[13:35] <prawnsalad> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[13:35] <prawnsalad> the pylons :D
[13:35] <daveake> The "listeners" use whatever suitable radio they have, and use the same "tracking" software (dl-fldigi) to listen to and decode the telemetry, and to upload to that central server
[13:35] <daveake> And the spacenear site feeds off that server
[13:35] <prawnsalad> right, gotcha
[13:35] <kokey> then sends the telementry to another tracker radio and a computer with fl-digi on the ground
[13:36] <prawnsalad> so that spacenear site is the main site inwhich they all feed in to
[13:36] <kokey> which then sends the data on to the tracker at habhub, and that then displays in the tracker spacenear.us
[13:36] <daveake> Well, I think it's a client that grabs data from the Habitat server
[13:36] <costyn> prawnsalad: yes
[13:36] <costyn> that's just details :)
[13:36] <kokey> they're all trackers, I guess
[13:36] <daveake> But yes, essentially it's airborne tracker --> (lots of) listening stations --> server --> map
[13:37] <number10> --> sea
[13:37] <gonzo_> for most of us, you run the HAB version of fldigi to decode the telemetry, and the rest is magic/witchcraft
[13:37] <daveake> sometimes
[13:37] <prawnsalad> payload tracker > community 'listeners' > spacenear > all other listeners for raw feed
[13:37] <prawnsalad> correct?
[13:37] <kokey> I think they should create a brand of latex balloons called Tracker
[13:38] <Darkside> nah
[13:38] <Darkside> Rover
[13:38] <prawnsalad> call everythign a tracker.
[13:38] <daveake> Roger
[13:38] <costyn> prawnsalad: not sure what you mean by that last step, but no
[13:38] <Darkside> the balloon must be called Rover
[13:38] <fsphil> there used to be a chocolate bar called Tracker
[13:38] <costyn> roger roger, over oveur
[13:38] <gonzo_> everything apart from the bacon butties
[13:38] <Darkside> does noone here get the reference?
[13:38] <Darkside> to "The Prisoner"
[13:38] <fsphil> number10 should
[13:38] <daveake> No, we were doing Airplane
[13:38] <Darkside> i'm not that old am I
[13:38] <number10> why me fsphil ?
[13:39] <fsphil> you are a number
[13:39] <number10> oh I forgot that
[13:39] <fsphil> lol
[13:39] <kokey> I've been to portmeiron but never watched the prisoner
[13:39] <fsphil> ok, number10 might not get it
[13:39] <gonzo_> I am not a number, I am a free bus!
[13:39] <Darkside> you are, number one
[13:39] <gonzo_> (what book was that from?)
[13:39] <Darkside> oh dear
[13:39] <kokey> we watched airplane this weekend
[13:39] <number10> never saw the tv program so I suppose I wouldnt have
[13:39] <costyn> prawnsalad: it's not always like this :) sometimes we go off on a wild tangent
[13:39] <fsphil> I've never seen it either
[13:39] <Darkside> the security system, called Rover, was a big weather balloon
[13:39] <prawnsalad> :)
[13:40] <kokey> no trust me it's all related
[13:40] <Darkside> the series is weird
[13:40] <kokey> and on topic
[13:40] <Darkside> very weird
[13:41] <prawnsalad> costyn: so maybe you could explain, on the spacenear.us/tracker/ map, anyone running the software will get their data feed uploaded to it and be displayed?
[13:41] <daveake> Thought we did
[13:41] <costyn> prawnsalad: yes
[13:41] <daveake> The payload transmits telemetry
[13:41] <daveake> dl-fldigi decodes the telemetry on the ground
[13:42] <daveake> and then sends to a database server called Habitat
[13:42] <costyn> prawnsalad: but if there's 1 balloon up in the air, everyone will get the same packets from the payload under the balloon, this is a nice form of redundancy
[13:42] <daveake> And the map gets data from the database
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[13:43] <prawnsalad> right, so habitat is the central place it all gets fed into (from the ground stations running the software)
[13:43] <costyn> yes
[13:43] <daveake> yes
[13:43] <prawnsalad> and the spacenear map reads that database.
[13:44] <daveake> Essentially yes
[13:44] <prawnsalad> right, clearer overview of it now
[13:44] <prawnsalad> thanks :)
[13:44] <daveake> excellent :)
[13:44] <fsphil> we should update Tim's old diagram
[13:45] <prawnsalad> still.. too many 'trackers' ;)
[13:45] <costyn> prawnsalad: listeners you mean?
[13:45] <gonzo_> or groundstations eating chocky muslei bars
[13:45] <prawnsalad> ground stations = listeners listening to the data broadcasted from the payloads
[13:46] <costyn> prawnsalad: yes
[13:46] <daveake> Rename the airborne "tracker" as Aero
[13:46] <daveake> Then we just need to add Twix, Mars and Bounty somewhere
[13:47] <costyn> Mmm
[13:47] <staylo> The prisoner can't be too obscure, even the simpsons did a few parodies of it
[13:47] <gonzo_> and marathon for old ludites
[13:47] <prawnsalad> Bounty being the landed payloads.. so we have bounty hunters?
[13:47] <costyn> prawnsalad: brilliant
[13:47] <number10> yea why did it get renamed snickers
[13:47] <daveake> I think I need to rewrite the wiki tracking guide ...
[13:47] <daveake> that was Marathon
[13:47] <gonzo_> think it was margeted outside UK as snickers
[13:48] <gonzo_> marketed
[13:48] <daveake> Because Mars (the company) sponsored the London Marathon, I think
[13:48] <nick_> I had an american snickers the other day, it was weird
[13:49] <gonzo_> margated? Would that be things only sold in essex?
[13:49] <nick_> I couldn't work out what they had changed
[13:49] <costyn> prawnsalad: you should sign up to the mailing list, and when there's a launch come join here, it's good fun and you learn a lot
[13:49] <prawnsalad> didnt realise theres a list
[13:49] <gonzo_> are we getting off TOPIC here?
[13:49] <prawnsalad> link?
[13:49] <daveake> hah
[13:50] <costyn> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[13:50] <prawnsalad> cheers
[13:50] <daveake> I think we need a Breakaway wiki
[13:50] <gonzo_> a whole GALAXY of puns start
[13:50] <daveake> I can Fudge it
[13:50] <gonzo_> No puns for me I'm on the waggon... wheely!
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[13:52] <prawnsalad> so, reason im looking into all this now, other than it being pretty cool to send something up there, is to experiment on getting a full network link as high as possible
[13:52] <costyn> prawnsalad: 802.11 network?
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[13:52] <prawnsalad> ideally. possibly some other long range type, depends what comes of the experiments
[13:53] <costyn> prawnsalad: what is your goal? 2-way communication?
[13:53] <gonzo_> I feel a lecture on license exempt bands and power/bandwidth coming on
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[13:53] <prawnsalad> whatever type it ends up being, i want to send 2 up at once to form an airbourne irc network
[13:53] <prawnsalad> (purley for fun)
[13:53] <Laurenceb> read the si4432 datasheet
[13:54] <prawnsalad> gonzo_: this is what i need to read upon
[13:54] <prawnsalad> so many things involved :(
[13:55] <gonzo_> first questio0n, where are you (country?)
[13:55] <prawnsalad> but basically i have an irc client project, which for fun id like to see if its even possible to run it completely airbourne :)
[13:56] <prawnsalad> England
[13:56] <daveake> wrong answer
[13:56] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:56] <costyn> haha
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[13:57] <prawnsalad> wrong answer?
[13:57] <gonzo_> prawnsalad, in the UK (even in england) there are very few frequency bands that you can legally transmit on, from an airborne vehicle) and the power that you can transmit is very limited.
[13:57] <costyn> England's laws aren't exactly friendly for airborne radio for amateurs
[13:57] <daveake> I'll leave others to fill in the specifics, but the answer to "how much power can I use" or "how much bandwidth do I have" or "how many frequencies can I choose from" is, in the UK, "naff all"
[13:58] <prawnsalad> oh, yes i know
[13:58] <costyn> prawnsalad: in conclusion: you can't do what you want in England
[13:58] <gonzo_> the favoured band at the moment uses the licence exempt allocation at 434MHz, with 10mW power. Basically a car key fob transmitter.
[13:58] <UpuWork> I made this for Yale as I'm mature and stuff to help them get their weight down : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/pico.jpg
[13:58] <daveake> UpuWork lol
[13:59] <UpuWork> this is what a days worth of windows updates reduces me too
[13:59] <costyn> UpuWork: bwahahaahaa!
[13:59] <daveake> should be "lite weight" shirley?
[13:59] <gonzo_> that wasn't fiar, I had a mouthful of tea!
[13:59] <UpuWork> sorry yes I forgot my americanisms
[13:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.maxwell.com/products/microelectronics/docs/hsn1000_rev3.pdf
[14:00] <UpuWork> americanizms ?
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[14:00] <costyn> UpuWork: love the hammer. it's like a puzzle pic to see what objects you can identify
[14:00] <UpuWork> :)
[14:00] <Darkside> oh my
[14:00] <daveake> Hope that's a 110V heater
[14:00] <Darkside> ohhhhhhhh my
[14:00] <Darkside> im a losing my shit over here
[14:01] <Darkside> thats hillarious
[14:01] Action: costyn too
[14:01] <daveake> Yes, I think I'll upgrade my lol to an lmao
[14:01] <craag> Laurenceb: That's one for the 'most useless telemetry ever' competition.
[14:01] <craag> (if you put it on a payload)
[14:02] <costyn> UpuWork: is that a keycord in the back?
[14:03] <costyn> must say the similarity to YUAA is uncanny
[14:03] <craag> Not enough sharp corners.
[14:04] <UpuWork> cat 5 cables and packing material
[14:04] <UpuWork> don't spend too much time analysing it, its just a card board box
[14:04] <Darkside> that is still hillarious
[14:05] <Darkside> post it to the hackaday comment thread :P
[14:05] <costyn> haha
[14:05] <UpuWork> no :)
[14:05] <UpuWork> internal amusement only pls
[14:05] <Laurenceb> has to go on hackaday
[14:06] <costyn> +1
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[14:07] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/rl0dk.png
[14:07] <UpuWork> haha
[14:08] <costyn> lol!
[14:09] <costyn> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ri0zp/
[14:12] <costyn> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ri10u/
[14:13] <costyn> at the office we often make these quickmemes for various silly things. not sure how meme-y everybody here is
[14:13] <daveake> Thing is, they mentioned a "direct radio system" with a range up to 50 miles, so wtf happened to that?
[14:13] <eroomde> i think costyn should do a meme for every wiki page
[14:14] <eroomde> please
[14:14] <costyn> eroomde: now you're just being silly
[14:14] <eroomde> daveake: what happened is what happens every single time someone uses one of those 1W Zigbee modems on a hab
[14:14] <craag> daveake: From the antenna on the payload, it looked like a 868MHz job.
[14:14] <eroomde> it starts being wierd and flaky
[14:15] <daveake> That aerial on the top of the payload?
[14:15] <craag> Nah, there was an upside-down custom j-pole on one the wings.
[14:15] <daveake> ah ok
[14:15] <daveake> missed that
[14:16] <craag> http://yaleaerospace.com/photos-2012-2013/#jp-carousel-463
[14:17] <costyn> I see a pro mini in the payload too
[14:17] <eroomde> you mean a 'novem embedded micropower control solution?'
[14:17] <eroomde> 'the most advanved in all of hab?'
[14:17] <eroomde> ?
[14:17] <UpuWork> http://yaleaerospace.com/photos-2012-2013/#jp-carousel-712 caption should be "Wtf is all this shit"
[14:17] <eroomde> novel*
[14:18] <costyn> UpuWork: :)
[14:18] <russss> hah
[14:19] <costyn> so what is the rubber duck antenna on top of it for?
[14:19] <UpuWork> GSM
[14:19] <craag> I believe they also mentioned WiFi to configure it at launch..
[14:19] <daveake> To say "most advanced" you'd expect some research first, and they don't seem to have done any
[14:20] <daveake> Well I suppose an aerial on top is good if you plan to ditch in the sea
[14:20] <UpuWork> I'm going to get pava on hackaday, instant pass by saying "4Mhz Arduino"
[14:20] <daveake> wot no pi?
[14:20] <eroomde> novel 4Mhz arduino
[14:21] <daveake> Fly a Kindle. Those are full of novels
[14:21] <UpuWork> I want to fly a C-64 based tracker
[14:21] <UpuWork> BECAUSE
[14:21] <daveake> The power brick for those must be a kilo
[14:22] <daveake> But yes, an early-80's CPU has to be done
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[14:23] <daveake> Fly an 1802
[14:23] <Darkside> 4004
[14:23] <daveake> Those are silicon-on-sapphire --- perfect for spaaaace
[14:23] <eroomde> fly something designed from nand logic
[14:23] <eroomde> fpgas are cheating
[14:24] <daveake> Think I still have a box of 74-series TTL somewhere
[14:24] <eroomde> i want a bunch of 74HC soic chips on an A3 pcb
[14:24] <number10> ah maybe I shoud keep my 1986 ttl databooks
[14:24] <eroomde> i have all ther 74 series datasheets in a single zip
[14:24] <eroomde> it's quite useful to have around
[14:26] <zyp> I have all the 74 series datasheets on the internet
[14:26] <eroomde> you don't have my copies
[14:26] <eroomde> they're on my hdd
[14:27] <zyp> «oh, my internet is out& well, I'd better sit down and design some 74 series based circuits»
[14:27] <Darkside> night all
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[14:27] <costyn> Darkside: cya
[14:27] <daveake> Well, having no internet might get you into that 70s/80s frame of mind
[14:28] <eroomde> yeah
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[14:29] <zyp> you're saying that to a guy that is born in the end of the 80s ;)
[14:29] <costyn> zyp: get off my lawn!
[14:30] <zyp> but sure, I remember a time without internet
[14:30] <zyp> and then the years with dialup
[14:30] <daveake> weeeeeeedldldldldldldldldldlbeeeeeep
[14:31] <costyn> deeldedeedeedeldee deee psssssssssssssht
[14:32] <daveake> I think we have something for navrac to transmit with his FM radio
[14:32] <staylo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GoPU79GEQ
[14:33] <eroomde> they get the flow control codes and the subnet mask the wrong way round
[14:34] <costyn> eroomde: yea
[14:34] <daveake> He got the flow control / IP stuff the wrong way round </nerd>
[14:34] <eroomde> this video SUCKS
[14:34] <zyp> being the only internet user in the house in the dialup years meant it was hard to justify my use of the phone line to my parents
[14:35] <eroomde> launch vid of yale aero
[14:35] <eroomde> http://nhregister.com/articles/2012/10/24/news/new_haven/doc508879ff68589568276884.txt
[14:37] <eroomde> "now we perfected our techynology"
[14:37] <costyn> eroomde: there's a link below the story
[14:37] <costyn> See inaccurate information in a story? Other feedback and/or ideas for us to consider? Tell us here.
[14:37] <costyn> plz to use
[14:38] <costyn> :)
[14:38] <eroomde> ascent rate looks quite fast infact
[14:38] <costyn> still waiting for it to load
[14:39] <daveake> Yeah that rate looked fine. So the reported altitude was either wrong or out of date
[14:41] <eroomde> yeah
[14:41] <costyn> 22 people...
[14:41] <eroomde> well, if the novel cutdown system was gpsd-alt triggered, no wonder they lost it
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[14:48] <daveake> novel cutdown? Were they dropping 50 shades of grey on the countryside?
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[15:08] <fsphil> oh dear
[15:12] <fsphil> their balloon looks a bit dirty
[15:15] <fsphil> and still no updates
[15:16] <MLow> balloon up?
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[15:18] <daveake> I have done the last few years. Need to go on a diet.
[15:20] <NavracWork> ping upu
[15:21] <UpuWork> hi navrac2
[15:21] <NavracWork> ping upuwork
[15:21] <NavracWork> oops sorry - do these badgeboards have the bootloader on them?
[15:22] <UpuWork> yes
[15:22] <UpuWork> just select Arduino pro 3.3 8Mhz
[15:23] <NavracWork> hmm i did but get not in sync
[15:23] <UpuWork> got the ICSP on the right way round ?
[15:23] <NavracWork> just tried connecting the skt500 but that gives the same if i select 'burn bootloader'
[15:23] <UpuWork> 1 sec
[15:23] <NavracWork> red to pin1
[15:23] <UpuWork> yup
[15:24] <UpuWork> have you put an RFm22b on there ?
[15:24] <NavracWork> not yet
[15:24] <UpuWork> shouldn't be a problem they all programmed up
[15:24] <UpuWork> try program directly via the STK500 (hold shift down)
[15:25] <UpuWork> select the right com port though
[15:26] <NavracWork> same error - not in sync
[15:27] <UpuWork> odd
[15:27] <UpuWork> ok I'll send you the last one
[15:27] <NavracWork> no dont - ill figure it out
[15:27] <UpuWork> I'll put a header on it and test it tonight
[15:27] <UpuWork> well I'll do it anyway
[15:27] <UpuWork> could be faulty
[15:31] <NavracWork> probably need to rebbot the pc now - the tools menu isnt opening up
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[15:32] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> I just tried out my GPS code in front of the physics building, where I got 52.284634°N and 8.022557°E from my GPS, google maps however says 52.284516°N ,8.024992°E
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> is that bad?
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[15:39] <Lunar_LanderU> that is about 166 m from the real position
[15:39] <Lunar_LanderU> in great-circle distance
[15:40] <daveake> f**k great circles. It's a large error.
[15:40] <daveake> If it's consistent, or you have plenty of sats, then you have a bug
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[15:42] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[15:42] <Lunar_LanderU> brb
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[15:49] <UpuWork> you know the only code he's written himself is the code that turns the 52284634 from the UBX into the 52.284634 you see there
[15:49] <UpuWork> and you told him its bugged
[15:50] <daveake> Be fair. I think he tried to flash an LED once but it stayed on permanently.
[15:50] <UpuWork> lol
[15:51] <daveake> I'm waiting for him to say "my GPS altitude is stuck at 3179m"
[15:52] <UpuWork> haha
[15:52] <UpuWork> not ever Lunar...
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[16:00] <Lunar_LanderU> back
[16:01] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: you are right, the sat count shows 8 sats but still a position that is even farther away now compared to a few minutes ago
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[16:02] <daveake> You will get some jitter in the position, depending on how many sats it sees and where they are, but it shouldn't consistently be out by more than a few metres
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> yea, the position it gave out however is about 200 m SW of where I stood
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> so this balloon is not working
[16:04] <daveake> If possible get the tracker out in open space so it has a clear view of the sky and then check
[16:04] <daveake> Because if it's surrounded by buildings then the sats it sees will be high in the sky which doesn't help the horizontal accuracy
[16:05] <daveake> However I still suspect you have a conversion error
[16:05] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[16:05] <Lunar_LanderU> or that arduino mega just can't handle GPS, radio and sensors
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[16:05] <Lunar_LanderU> which I don't hope
[16:05] <daveake> rubbish
[16:05] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[16:06] <Lunar_LanderU> what I did was that I took the common coding errors page again
[16:06] <Lunar_LanderU> then I read about the dtostrf function on there and I took that and inserted it, however the latitude and longitude are int32_t variables
[16:07] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[16:07] <Lunar_LanderU> thus I divided the value coming from the GPS by 100000000 to get a double
[16:08] <Lunar_LanderU> that might be a brute force approach that was not good
[16:09] <daveake> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/Float
[16:09] <daveake> and http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/Double
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[16:09] <daveake> especially this: The double implementation on the Arduino is currently exactly the same as the float, with no gain in precision.
[16:10] <daveake> and "Floats have only 6-7 decimal digits of precision."
[16:10] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[16:10] <Lunar_LanderU> so that is not good
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[16:11] <daveake> Well, do the maths to see if that explains the errors
[16:11] <Lunar_LanderU> yea the latitude has 9 digits, the longitude 8
[16:11] <daveake> I'm just here for suggestions not answers :)
[16:12] <fsphil> even 5 digits will be fairly accurate
[16:12] <fsphil> current swift code uses 4
[16:12] <Lunar_LanderU> dumb question
[16:13] <daveake> Well Lunar's examlpe was out on the 6th digit IIRC
[16:13] <fsphil> shouldn't be 200m out then
[16:13] <Lunar_LanderU> dtostrf(lat, 8, 6, latitude) is the function I have
[16:13] <Lunar_LanderU> 8 is the total number of digits and 6 the number of digits after the decimal point?
[16:14] <daveake> For formatting, yes
[16:14] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[16:14] <Lunar_LanderU> so that is not the thing to change here?
[16:14] <daveake> So that can reduce precision
[16:15] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[16:15] <daveake> Sounds like you don't have 8 to begin with in a "double"
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> yea as the float/double definition says 6-7
[16:16] <daveake> yes, which seems to me to account for the numeric error in your positions you gave earlier
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[16:17] <Lunar_LanderU> shall I try to use some other numbers than 8 and 6?
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[16:21] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "[UKHAS] Re: Bit of help needed"
[16:22] <Lunar_LanderU> what would you suggest daveake ?
[16:23] <daveake> I suggest you start by debugging. i.e. print out the raw numbers from the GPS plus the number after your conversion.
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[16:23] <daveake> See if any difference there explains your 166m positional error
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[16:23] Nick change: grumbleist_ -> grumbleist
[16:24] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, will try to do that
[16:24] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks!
[16:24] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later from home
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[16:25] <number10> whats 200m difference here 54.329338,5.072021 ?
[16:28] <daveake> Less than 20 seconds if your name is Bolt
[16:28] <fsphil> the forth decimal point should be just a few meters accuracy
[16:28] <number10> I dont think he can swim that fast]#
[16:29] <daveake> I've lost track [sic], but where did the 200m come from earlier?
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[16:29] <number10> I dunno - but I think my joke is lost
[16:29] <fsphil> in spaaaace
[16:29] <fsphil> anyway, I'm going home
[16:30] <griffonbot> @KySpace: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/6f4ELlPg [http://twitter.com/KySpace/status/261504977053306880]
[16:30] Nick change: Cadair -> Cadair_away
[16:30] <daveake> number10: I sea
[16:31] <number10> :)
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[16:36] Nick change: Lunar_LAnderU -> Lunar_LanderU
[16:38] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: I just checked, I told it to give out the latitude and longitude it got from the GPS (though I am inside and using the lock that I had outside), it gives the same numbers (though without the decimal point of course) as are given out by the conversion
[16:38] <daveake> Good
[16:38] <daveake> So is the position correct on google?
[16:39] <Lunar_LanderU> no, it is like down the road from here, a bit to the west and quite far to the south
[16:40] <daveake> Strange. Do you have a car GPS or phone or something independent to give you co-ords
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[16:41] <Lunar_LanderU> when I was outside I had a friend with me who has GPS on his smartphone and he checked the coordinates for me
[16:41] <Lunar_LanderU> and when I put these into google, it is about
[16:41] <daveake> and...
[16:41] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[16:42] <daveake> waiting...
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[16:42] <Lunar_LanderU> 25 m west of where we standing
[16:42] <daveake> 25m is ok
[16:42] <daveake> 200m not ok
[16:42] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[16:43] <daveake> how far out is the position from your tracker?
[16:43] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
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[16:43] <daveake> This isn't a decimal /degree error is it?
[16:44] <daveake> e.g. you're using decimal degrees and the gps is outputing degrees/minutes?
[16:44] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[16:44] <nick_> Does anyone know George Winstone?
[16:44] <Randomskk> could well be google maps misalignment or datum reference error
[16:44] <daveake> I can't remmeber your numbers from earlier to know
[16:44] <Randomskk> honestly for that level of error it's probably fine
[16:45] <nick_> andrew_apex_ perhaps?
[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> well, when we first talked about the balloon, my friend pulled out his phone and then I told him to set his GPS to DD.DDDDDD
[16:45] <daveake> Well his friend's GPS seems to agree with Google within 25m
[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[16:45] <daveake> And Lunar's tracker was out by 200m I think earlier
[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> so the uBlox should output degrees
[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
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[16:45] <Lunar_LanderU> lets ask zeusbot
[16:45] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
[16:46] <Lunar_LanderU> [15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> I just tried out my GPS code in front of the physics building, where I got 52.284634°N and 8.022557°E from my GPS, google maps however says 52.284516°N ,8.024992°E
[16:47] <daveake> ^ consistent error AIUI
[16:48] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> btw, if that would be in degrees and minutes, the position would be somewhere 15 km north of me
[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> I am sure it is in degrees
[16:50] <daveake> yup
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[16:51] <Lunar_LanderU> strange
[16:51] <Lunar_LanderU> and I doubt that the GPS has been fried or so
[16:53] <daveake> How far out is the reported position from your tracker, at your home?
[16:54] <Lunar_LanderU> I only can tell for the university as I have moved all my balloon stuff to here
[16:54] <daveake> Well ... I'd poll the GPS from the UBlox control center program. If that gives the same position as via your tracker code, then your code is fine
[16:54] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
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[16:55] <daveake> "probably fine" :)
[16:55] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[16:55] <daveake> (I mean, it's not an exhaustive test!)
[16:55] <Lunar_LanderU> by the way when I ran my system for 20 hours at the end of august and then took it outside, it gave a position with an error of about 10 m
[16:56] <daveake> Well that's fine
[16:57] <daveake> So when I asked if it was consistently out by 200m, and you said yes ....
[16:57] <daveake> .... you meant no? :)
[16:57] <Lunar_LanderU> well, yesterday and today it was that far out
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[16:57] <daveake> Prolly just a restricted view of the sky
[16:58] <daveake> Check it in the open like I said earlier
[16:58] <daveake> I think you can stop worrying about it now
[16:58] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, thanks
[16:58] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "Re: [UKHAS] HackHD"
[16:58] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "[UKHAS] Re: HackHD"
[16:59] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: I think I will be at home in about 2 h, maybe I'll take my tracker with me to check it back in my garden or somewhere else
[16:59] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
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[16:59] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later & thanks again
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[17:19] <bertrik> any news from BUZZ today?
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[17:25] <Upu> nah its in the sea
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[18:00] <cuddykid> oh dear, got a twitter spammer
[18:00] <arko> shoot it
[18:00] <arko> they're like zombies
[18:01] <cuddykid> keeps asking me to send him GPS/Radio circuit diagram lol
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[18:14] <daveake> cuddykid Something like "I'm working on my own project plz sendz full schematic and softwares"?
[18:14] daveake (Dave@daveake.plus.com) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
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[18:15] <daveake> "plus parts list and list of suppliers"
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[18:15] <cuddykid> daveake: yep!
[18:15] <cuddykid> I've had quite a few of them
[18:15] <cuddykid> click delete immediately
[18:16] <daveake> That's coz yooz famous innit
[18:16] <cuddykid> ya
[18:16] <cuddykid> lol
[18:16] <cuddykid> the local BBC radio station checked up on my earlier
[18:16] <cuddykid> random call along the lines of "any more projects you can talk about"
[18:17] <number10> tell them the next one is secret - they will be more interested
[18:17] <cuddykid> haha
[18:17] <cuddykid> good idea
[18:17] <cuddykid> I'm on air mon morning
[18:17] <number10> thats if you want the interest
[18:17] <daveake> Tell them Richard Branson gave you the idea
[18:17] <cuddykid> nah, Josh did :P
[18:17] <daveake> same thing
[18:17] <cuddykid> yeah
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[18:48] <griffonbot> Received email: =?utf-8?B?Q2hyaXMgSGVtYnJvdw==?= "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Bit of help needed"
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[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, I just did some checking around with the TinyGPS library (to understand it if we have to go back to using NMEA), and I found this thread on the arduino forums
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,109824.0.html
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> the person in there also talks about 200 m deviation and someone else also says that he should try to get into an open field
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[19:03] <fsphil> if it makes you feel better, I got a 20km error at first :)
[19:03] <daveake> 20km could mean the difference between a sea landing or ..... a tree landing
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> btw, TinyGPS seems to be straightforward, is that true?
[19:05] <fsphil> that's a matter for the user
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:05] <Upu> Lunar
[19:05] <Upu> if you're having issues with positioning
[19:06] <Upu> dump the raw NMEA out
[19:06] <Upu> and see what you're getting
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:07] <Upu> print the NMEA then your telemetry string
[19:07] <Upu> compare
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[19:08] <fsphil> and don't panic :)
[19:08] <Upu> yes that as well
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> I am actually quite calm
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> brb dinner
[19:10] <fsphil> excellent
[19:10] <fsphil> I might try soldering up this board tonight. I've never soldered smd parts with an iron before
[19:10] <fsphil> I'm tempted to reflow the board
[19:11] <fsphil> although there are not too many bits that need to go onto it
[19:11] <fsphil> (the badge board)
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[19:19] <Upu> SMD soldering is easy
[19:19] <Upu> just hold the comp in place say 0603
[19:19] <fsphil> yea the more I think about it
[19:19] <fsphil> I'm just gonna use the iron
[19:19] <Upu> and just swipe the end of it with an iron
[19:19] <Upu> you need the smallest amount of solder on the end of the iron
[19:19] <Upu> flux ofc
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> back
[19:20] <fsphil> the soic parts, do you just tack one pin first?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about something else
[19:20] <Upu> yes
[19:20] <Upu> flux pads
[19:20] <Upu> put some solder on the iron tip
[19:20] <Upu> really small amount
[19:20] <fsphil> how many boards are left? since I'm probably gonna destroy this :)
[19:20] <Upu> hold comp in place with tweezers and just touch a leg
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> my string is made by sprintf and it only will take chars for some reason but when I send everything through that fmtDouble function, the navmode and satellites and and the error are given as floats, i.e. 8 sats makes 8.0
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[19:21] <Upu> should flow onto the lef
[19:21] <Upu> leg
[19:21] <fsphil> indeed
[19:21] <Upu> now just apply solder directly to the rest of the pins, very small amounts
[19:21] <Upu> Well
[19:21] <Upu> depends
[19:21] <Upu> ping navrac
[19:21] <Upu> 1 board left but it may be going to navrac
[19:21] <fsphil> ah no worries then. I need to face eagle and get my own board made up anyway
[19:21] <fsphil> and that would be a good excuse
[19:22] <Upu> indeed
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> I may be a bad programmer
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> but I am hopefully not as bad as Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing (if someone knows that game)
[19:23] <fsphil> I'm totally out of touch with the gaming world atm
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea me too
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> but afaik that is one of the worst games ever
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> with the famous line "You're Winner!"
[19:24] <fsphil> there was a game on the C64 called R-Type. nobody I know ever got it working
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:27] <fsphil> although there are youtube vids of it, so someone managed it :)
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I see that people fly balloons, so it is managable to program the arduino in that way
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[19:33] <x-f> as Nigey once said:
[19:33] <x-f> <NigeyS> some people think this hobby is as simple as balloon + box + helium = win
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[19:33] <Upu> hah fools its balloon + PINK box + helium
[19:34] <navrac> shh - dont give away trade secrets
[19:34] <Upu> :)
[19:34] <Upu> did you get that board working ?
[19:34] <MLow> did a balloon fly today?
[19:34] <MLow> i feel i missed something while at work
[19:34] <Upu> kinda
[19:34] <Upu> launched last night pico floater
[19:34] <Upu> came down very early this morning UK time
[19:35] <MLow> ah nvm i saw that
[19:35] <navrac> no - traced the board out = theres nothing wrong with it - but it refused to accept ftdi or icsp
[19:35] <MLow> water landing eh?
[19:35] <Upu> odd
[19:35] <Upu> ok I'll send you another tomorrow
[19:35] <navrac> i cant see its broken
[19:35] <MLow> upu u should make a premade tracker and sell it
[19:35] <navrac> how did you put the bootloader on?
[19:35] <MLow> id buy it as a backup for my crappy one
[19:35] <Upu> nah not doing that MLow :)
[19:36] <MLow> awww
[19:36] <MLow> u mean
[19:36] <fsphil> lol
[19:36] <MLow> just
[19:36] <MLow> cmonn
[19:36] <navrac> its too easy then, it stops being a proper hobby
[19:36] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Conference%20Badge/IMG_1009.JPG
[19:36] <Upu> with clips like that
[19:37] <fsphil> I would never have done my live images thing if project cirrus had a pre-made board :)
[19:37] <navrac> thru the ftdi?
[19:37] <MLow> you get your boards from mitch upu?
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD Upu and x-f
[19:38] <MLow> the tracker is the boaring part
[19:38] <MLow> i want to build some really cool stuff
[19:40] <Upu> yes MLow
[19:40] <MLow> it looks good
[19:40] <Upu> no navrac
[19:40] <Upu> hang on
[19:40] <MLow> ive been trying to figure out if i want to order some from him but cant justify getting 5 boards and waiting forever
[19:41] <Upu> can't find the picture
[19:41] <Upu> but basically I stuck 6 wires in an ICSP connect with clips on the end
[19:42] <navrac> I'm just worried im doing something stupid - just the bare board with 3v3 supply then tried the ftdi , then tried the icsp doing the programming
[19:43] <navrac> did try resending the bootloader through the icsp using the arduino command (via the right com port)
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[19:43] <Upu> I'll send you this one with a header on it
[19:43] <Upu> I know it works I redid the bootloader tonight
[19:44] <navrac> its probably me doing something silly.
[19:44] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aof0nfkqaw6dj2d/2012-08-20%2018.45.36.jpg
[19:44] <Upu> there
[19:44] <navrac> i connected the skt-500 to the pc, gave it the driver stuck it on com 4 and selected the programmer in the arduino ide and pressed the shift program
[19:44] <navrac> did i miss a step?
[19:45] <Upu> got an Arduino ?
[19:46] <navrac> only one in stock at the moment - checked the ftdi worked with that and then checked the wiring of my ftdi adapter lead to the board to check it went to the same pins on the ic - apart from the series 0.1 on the reset line it was the same
[19:46] <Upu> checked your programmer works on that ?
[19:47] <navrac> just thought id check the ftdi first
[19:47] <Upu> you should be able to program that board via FTDI
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[19:47] <navrac> thats what i thought
[19:48] <fsphil> yea, unless the chip has been static zapped
[19:49] <navrac> well the wife is doing doggy training all weekend so ive got plenty of time to work it out
[19:49] <navrac> unlikely - came out of a box and straight onto the desk
[19:49] <Upu> yeah they did get hauled back in a rucksack
[19:51] <navrac> ive rarely seen a genuinely static blown chip
[19:51] <Upu> same here
[19:52] <navrac> i used to soder up srams ona nylon carpet and never blew any
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[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> my string is made by sprintf and it only will take chars for some reason but when I send everything through that fmtDouble function, the navmode and satellites and and the error are given as floats, i.e. 8 sats makes 8.0
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[20:08] <MickMondo> Hello
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[20:09] <Mark_> Hello
[20:09] <MickMondo> Just thought Id say Hi, trying to pass the time at work.. as you do
[20:10] <Upu> evening Mick
[20:10] <daveake> hiya Mick
[20:10] <MickMondo> Hi Upu
[20:10] <MickMondo> Hello Dave
[20:11] <Mark_> This is my first time here. I'd like to know if anyone can help me - I'm trying to build an APRS tracker to go in my first payload - what, in your opinion is the easiest, and cheapest way of going about this?
[20:11] <MickMondo> Just finnished that borad Upu and checked it through, noticed I have put a track in the wrong place ha ha, what a bummer
[20:11] <Upu> well at least you don't have to wait 5 weeks for a new one
[20:12] <MickMondo> Looks really nice too,,, lot of bloddy use that is thought lol, think I can get round it for now, till i make another.
[20:12] <Upu> what do you design them in ?
[20:12] <daveake> Mark_ - There are very few APRS users here, so you may need to ask again sometime :-). I know Darkside has used it.
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.b3tards.com/u/fa2a3ab468c53bb760c2/circuit_breaker.jpg
[20:12] <Upu> probably a trackuino mark
[20:13] <Mark_> Ah ok no problem. Am I going about this wrong then? What is the most common way of tracking?
[20:13] <daveake> What country are you in?
[20:13] <MickMondo> Some rubbish program,,, MMM ... oh its Express pCB, I've got eagle but I've got use to using this one
[20:13] <Mark_> UK
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[20:14] <daveake> Not allowed here, airborne
[20:14] <Upu> ok Mick not heard of that one
[20:14] <Mark_> What do you mean
[20:15] <daveake> I mean you're not allowed to transmit on the amateur bands from an airborne vehicle
[20:15] <daveake> We use unlicenced bands
[20:15] <daveake> And just 10mW ERP
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[20:16] <Mark_> Ah ok, I didn't know that. There seems to be a lot of write up of people using APRS on a balloon - didn't realise that it wasn't allowed. So what do you use dave? Briefly what is your setup?
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> aprs is fine in the USA
[20:16] <daveake> Have a look at http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:17] <MickMondo> Eagles the way to go, I should just get on with it
[20:18] <MickMondo> What weekend you launching / dave-Ant
[20:18] <daveake> what's the weather like next weekend, mystic mondo? :p
[20:19] <MickMondo> ha ha
[20:19] <daveake> Just as soon as the predictions sort themselves out
[20:19] <Mark_> Ahh ok I think I get it, instead of using the APRS infrastructure that is around the country, we have to build our own receiver unit
[20:19] <MickMondo> Crap probably
[20:19] <daveake> I've requested a block of dates
[20:19] <daveake> Mark_ You build a transmitter for the payload
[20:19] <MickMondo> ahh
[20:20] <daveake> And you/us use a 70cm SSB radio on the ground
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[20:20] <MickMondo> Yeah dont get me to design the board ... ha ha ha
[20:20] <daveake> All receivers upload telemetry to a central server, so if only one receiver receives the data it still gets recorded
[20:21] <MickMondo> did you get my payment ok Upu
[20:21] <MickMondo> cheers for sorting that out
[20:21] <Upu> I did, did you get my mail ?
[20:21] <MickMondo> Mmm, not sure I'll look, dont think I did
[20:22] <Upu> I mailed you :)
[20:22] <griffonbot> @orrinsf: RT @BBCAmos: Your chance to scream in space for the smartphone app riding onboard the STRaND-1 cubesat. #CUSF #SSTL http://t.co/x8s2zkUR [http://twitter.com/orrinsf/status/261563480136638464]
[20:23] <Upu> if you can't find it I'll resend
[20:23] <Upu> check spam
[20:23] <Mark_> Yes and it is that central server that plots on the map. OK. I think I get it. So, like APRS, is there a lot of these radios around the country all ready to receive incoming transmissions and plot them, or do we really need our own radio?
[20:23] <Mark_> And laptop
[20:23] <Upu> well unlike APRS its not automated but generally you'll get alot of coverage
[20:23] <MickMondo> No I did get it, I missed it this morning,,,, yeah thats ok Im not here next week anyway, can you send it on the 1st ..?
[20:23] <daveake> Well it's mainly people here who, provided you announce the launch, will tune in and decode for you
[20:23] <Upu> but you want to listen in locally
[20:24] <Upu> PM MickMondo
[20:24] <daveake> Typically 10-15 active listeners during a flight, which is plenty
[20:24] <Mark_> Ah ok I see, great so it is a team effort, sounds good.
[20:24] <daveake> Especially as the range can be 500 miles
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> tracking during the flight is easy
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> with lots of helpers
[20:25] <Mark_> Any people in the Gloucestershire area?
[20:25] <MickMondo> Yeah or am, I'm back friday
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> what is more challenging is getting positions as it falls through 3km or so
[20:25] <Mark_> Ah ok whys that
[20:25] <fsphil> even with aprs I would receive locally
[20:25] <daveake> I did a foil balloon flight yesterday, and one other listener had the signal before I even launched (from the top of a hill)
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> at that point, you need a local receiver, as the horizon gets in the way
[20:26] <number10> was he russian daveake
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> and otherwise, yo rely on it continuing to send n the ground
[20:26] <daveake> Obviously the lower it gets the closer a listener has to have LOS
[20:26] <Mark_> Ah ok, you need good line of sight
[20:26] <daveake> has to be to have LOS*
[20:26] <daveake> Typically the last reading is at 300-1000m up
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> at 1000m, it can be 3 mins from landing
[20:27] <daveake> Once it's on the ground you need typically to be within a mile of it (depends on the terrain of course)
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> and easily an elipse of 300m diameter it may land in
[20:28] <Mark_> Ah ok I see
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> if it fails on landing, then you're nlyfnding it if you're lucky
[20:28] <daveake> So if you go to that last position you'll very likely get the signal again
[20:28] <Mark_> What are the thoughts on using gps mobile phones as a backup tracker?
[20:29] <Mark_> Or locator
[20:29] <Upu> don't bother is the general advice
[20:29] <Upu> however individual milage may vary
[20:29] <Mark_> Whys that
[20:29] <daveake> The radio system is very reliable overall
[20:29] <Upu> weight, lack of performance
[20:29] <daveake> GSM isn't reliable
[20:29] <Upu> My payload was saved by one however I don't tend to fly them these days
[20:30] <fsphil> the payload can't move to get a better signal once it's landed :)
[20:30] <Mark_> Ha yeah
[20:30] <navrac> and balloons normally land where there isnt mobile coverage for the particualr sim card you have chosen
[20:30] <Upu> Should start using Eagle and get boards made in China Mick :)
[20:30] <Mark_> Haha yeah I did think that
[20:30] <MickMondo> yes all the time ..
[20:30] <Upu> I was very lucky
[20:31] <Upu> for starters I used Vodafone
[20:31] <Upu> which is off to a bad start
[20:31] <fsphil> yes
[20:31] <Upu> secondly I landed 5 miles off the coast in the north sea
[20:31] <navrac> do you have the pro version of eagle upu? the free one doesnt seem to do flood fills - unless i'm missing something
[20:31] <Upu> you're missing something
[20:31] <Upu> it does
[20:31] <Upu> ground planes ?
[20:31] <navrac> yep
[20:31] <Upu> yeah it does
[20:31] <navrac> didnt see that option
[20:31] <Upu> do this
[20:31] <Mark_> Ok, that wiki page is really good at giving info about the receiver, is there any documentation I can read about making a transmitter?
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi Mark_ welcome to the club of hair pulling
[20:31] <Upu> type : poly gnd
[20:31] <Upu> draw your box
[20:31] <Upu> press rats nest
[20:31] <Mark_> Hello Lunar_Lander, thank you
[20:32] <fsphil> smooth
[20:32] <Upu> smooooth
[20:32] <Upu> :)
[20:32] <fsphil> hah
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:32] <fsphil> I keep forgetting about zeus
[20:32] <navrac> its not too bad mark_ a little frustrating at times but theres generally someone around to help out
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[20:33] <Upu> I tend to copy the box and chage the copy to bottom layer before hitting rats nest so you get a top and a bottom copper pour
[20:33] <Upu> if you get stuck let me know I'll do a demo navrac
[20:34] <navrac> thanks - i'll probably take the badge board as a starting point and bolt on the external osc stuff and gps
[20:34] <Mark_> OK great thank you I will have a look
[20:35] <Mark_> What would you say an estimated cost of a full setup would be?
[20:35] <navrac> balloon and helium included?
[20:35] <Upu> You can make a tracker for less than £70 easily
[20:36] <Upu> however you will spend more as you test stuff
[20:36] <number10> and a tracking radio
[20:36] <Upu> balloon is £40-£90 helium if you can get it is £150
[20:36] <navrac> rtl+ hab amp £40?
[20:36] <Mark_> Just the tracking equipment
[20:36] <Upu> yep what navrac said
[20:36] <navrac> helium £150!!!!
[20:36] <Upu> however there is a Icom I10R on T'Bay at the moment for £100
[20:37] <Mark_> Looks like the recieving radio will be costly
[20:37] <Upu> its expensive
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[20:37] <Upu> well you can use one of these :http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70
[20:37] <Upu> with one of these :
[20:37] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[20:37] <navrac> a rtl dongle and a good amp will do fine - £40 plus a second hand aerial for £20
[20:38] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[20:38] <daveake> Helium £80 not £150, unless it's a large balloon
[20:38] <Mark_> This sounds better lol
[20:38] <fsphil> there are little cheap magmount antennas on cpc too
[20:38] <Upu> Last one I got was £120
[20:38] <Upu> T cylinder
[20:38] <Upu> not bought it for a while
[20:38] <navrac> big bottle then upu
[20:39] <Upu> 3.6m3
[20:39] <daveake> The receiver you can always sell on ebay for about what you paid for it if you decide not to do any more launches
[20:39] <navrac> balloon helium are 79 if you pick it up for a medium cylinder
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[20:39] <daveake> Yep that's what I do
[20:39] <daveake> and pay
[20:40] <Mark_> Yeah that was a thought dave too
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[20:40] <daveake> I bought a scanner for £86, used for a few flights, then sold for comfortably over £100
[20:40] <Upu> Also would recommend you attend someone elses launch
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[20:40] <daveake> +1
[20:40] <Upu> most people are happy to have someone along
[20:40] <navrac> luckily my local depot is 4 miles away
[20:41] <Upu> where in the UK are you Mark_ ?
[20:41] <Mark_> Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire
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[20:42] <fsphil> nice
[20:42] <daveake> OK, well I launch in West Berks usually, so you could come to one of mine
[20:42] <Upu> oh next door to NigelMoby :)
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[20:42] <fsphil> tada
[20:42] <Upu> have a read round a few project pages
[20:42] <Upu> get a feel for what others have done
[20:43] <Upu> ask others what they would do different :)
[20:43] <Upu> mine is not land in the sea
[20:43] <Upu> Daves is not land in the sea, trees, power lines, Belgium
[20:43] <daveake> lol
[20:43] <daveake> I've never done power lines
[20:43] <Mark_> Yeah been reading for a few days now, thought I'd give this chat a go to fill in the gaps - it has really helped thank you
[20:43] <daveake> Surprisinglt
[20:43] <daveake> y
[20:43] <NigeyS> mine is lets land of firing ranges :D
[20:43] <fsphil> I've never once landed in the dales ... and recovered :)
[20:43] <NigeyS> on*
[20:43] <number10> power lines + tree is not good
[20:44] <daveake> Oh, actually, yes I did do power lines ....
[20:44] <daveake> :D
[20:44] <NigeyS> wonder if poor lil picochu got fired on :(
[20:44] <daveake> Only house ones so they don't count
[20:44] <daveake> So I've done .... tree, grass, power line, phone line, car, sea
[20:44] <daveake> Think that's it
[20:45] <daveake> quite a few empty fields too
[20:45] <number10> and a few sea ;)
[20:45] <daveake> I said sea :)
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> https://raw.github.com/mossmann/hackrf/master/doc/jawbreaker.jpeg
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> looks pretty epic
[20:45] <NigeyS> you need ice sheet next dave
[20:45] <fsphil> still need, person, power station, and GCHQ
[20:45] <number10> c++
[20:45] <daveake> Upu did Triffids once
[20:45] <daveake> fsphil true
[20:45] <Upu> indeed
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[20:45] <Upu> what does that do Laurenceb ?
[20:46] <Mark_> Has there GCHQ is a worry for me up the road
[20:46] <Mark_> Has there been any real damage caused by any of these payloads?
[20:46] <daveake> None that I know of
[20:46] <daveake> Even the car was with a soft teddy bear :D
[20:47] <Mark_> Excellent
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[20:48] <Mark_> Just going back to the dongle reciever method - what is the range on this?
[20:48] <fsphil> indeed, no metal payload boxes
[20:49] <navrac> with the hab amp its pretty good - several hundred miles
[20:50] <navrac> without the hab amp not far
[20:50] <Mark_> Great sounds good
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> oh hi NigeyS !
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[20:58] <Upu> just to clarify SDR is never going to be as good as a proper radio
[20:58] <Upu> but for the money you can't touch them
[20:59] <Mark_> Yeah I think it's the way I am going to go for the first go.
[20:59] <Mark_> So the usual setup is you have this on a laptop in a chase car then?
[21:00] <navrac> yep
[21:00] <navrac> you need the laptop anyway to decode the data
[21:00] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/habmobile.jpg
[21:01] <Upu> wear fluoresant jackets whilst driving for extra lulz
[21:01] <fsphil> far too neat and tidy
[21:01] <fsphil> you appear to have a TV screen in your dashboard Upu
[21:02] <Upu> it can do TV actually
[21:02] <Upu> though I don't have it
[21:02] <fsphil> nice
[21:02] <Mark_> Wow looks good. I think I will have to settle for my passengers lap on my first go haha. Ah good old iphone for internet connection? Tethering?
[21:02] <Upu> actually no the netbook I have has a really good 3G built into it
[21:03] <Upu> but you can use tethering I guess
[21:03] <fsphil> I wish this thinkpad had 3g
[21:03] <fsphil> that would be amazing
[21:04] <Mark_> Am I missing something here - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 - this article, you'd still need to add a GPS module to this somewhere?
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[21:05] <fsphil> that's the easy bit
[21:05] <Upu> yes that just shows how to make the radio transmit stuff
[21:06] <MickMondo> Just looking throuhg the Eagle pro,, can you set the dia for lines, drill holes an pads in metric ..?
[21:06] <Randomskk> yes
[21:07] <Mark_> So I can integrate that with the trackuino project?
[21:07] <MickMondo> how
[21:07] <daveake> another chase car - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P1050297-1024x682.jpg
[21:07] <Randomskk> idk, in settings somewhere you can change the units
[21:07] <Randomskk> click the grid maybe
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander__> :) mitsubishi!
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[21:08] <MickMondo> got it cheers
[21:09] <Upu> yes Mick
[21:10] <MickMondo> yeah found it cheers, just being lazy
[21:11] <MickMondo> it looks quite good
[21:11] <fsphil> trackuino is aprs based, you'd be better starting from scratch. it would be a lot simpler
[21:11] <MickMondo> I might redraw this board in it see how it goes
[21:12] <Mark_> Ah yeah fsphil just realised that.
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[21:13] <fsphil> do you have much/any experience in programming Mark_?
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[21:15] <Mark_> Yeah I work as a software developer
[21:15] <Mark_> And my brother is an electrical engineer
[21:15] <fsphil> ah then this will be a doddle :)
[21:15] <Mark_> So we have a project team haha
[21:16] <Mark_> Just need pointing in the right direction!
[21:17] <fsphil> best to play with the radio first
[21:17] <fsphil> once you've got it sending messages, then I'd tackle gps
[21:18] <Mark_> Yeah that was the plan, what would I need though?
[21:18] <daveake> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[21:19] <daveake> NTX2 and a UBlox GPS from there, plus processor board (Arduino of some description, or PIC for example)
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander__> Mark_, as I said, when you approach completion, you will pull your hair
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander__> as I did
[21:20] <Mark_> Haha looking forward to the challenge!
[21:20] <daveake> Though, he is a programmer
[21:20] <Mark_> Thanks Dave and Phil for the above
[21:21] <daveake> Dunno what stuff you've programmed but programming a small embedded micro is a bit different to larger systems
[21:21] <daveake> But you should get the hang of it PDQ
[21:21] <Mark_> Yeah, dont do that in my current job, will have to get my uni stuff back out!
[21:22] <daveake> arduino is simple to learn
[21:22] <daveake> And provided you have a go, people are happy to help if you get stuck or need info
[21:23] <daveake> Just don't ask for complete source or anything :)
[21:24] <Mark_> Yeah of course, that's not fun anyway!
[21:25] <Mark_> Does the UBlox gps module give altitude too?
[21:25] <daveake> Yes
[21:25] <daveake> All GPS modules do
[21:26] <Mark_> Great, thought they did but just checking!
[21:26] <daveake> They all send standard NMEA sentences, and you get the long/lat/alt, and anything else you need, from those
[21:26] <daveake> Or, particular manufacturers also implement their own protocols and those can be easier to use
[21:27] <Mark_> Yeah didnt want to send this up and not know how high it went!
[21:27] <daveake> I just use NMEA so I can switch GPS units easily
[21:27] <daveake> Now, one thing to be aware of is that not every GPS unit will report the position above 18km
[21:27] <daveake> And those that do sometimes need to be set to "flight mode" to enable that
[21:28] <daveake> Most people now use UBlox modules and there's code in the wiki for setting those properl
[21:28] <daveake> y
[21:28] <Mark_> Ah that is good to know
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander__> btw daveake what is the good thing of using the Ublox communications over NMEA?
[21:30] <daveake> No need to parse NMEA
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander__> hm yea
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[21:41] <Mark_> OK thank you everyone, I will see you soon
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander__> hello jcoxon
[21:47] <jcoxon> evening Lunar_Lander__
[21:47] <daveake> Evening jcoxon. Buzz did better than I expected
[21:48] <jcoxon> yes
[21:48] <daveake> Further would have been good, but can't complain
[21:48] <jcoxon> interesting that it descended though
[21:48] <daveake> Yeah, I wish I'd added pressure to the telemetry. Would have helped explain I think
[21:49] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:50] <jcoxon> ping navrac
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> dragon back down on Sunday
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> hmm, and another flight scheduled before year end
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> can anyone help me create a multipart zip ?
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> the option in ubuntu is greyed out
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[22:44] <Randomskk> maybe install the various zip packages
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> oh
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> didnt realise it was missing stuff
[22:50] <Randomskk> it can be
[22:54] <cuddykid> excellent, I have my java web client and server talking to one another :D
[23:00] <fsphil> you had to make a client too?
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 26 2012