highaltitude.log.20121022

[00:00] <Lunar_Lander_> I don't know, sorry
[00:05] <chris___> ok on ukhas now thanks fer help looking for downloads
[00:05] <nigelvh_> Chris, no, ham radio deluxe isn't compatible. They've made a specialized version of fldigi that uploads the data to the central server.
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander_> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
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[00:11] <chris___> cheers all don't think sp9uob/2 is desecending yet
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[00:24] <heathkid> why hasn't the time updated on SP9UOB?
[00:25] <heathkid> sorry... SP9UOB/2
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[02:54] <heathkid> anyone here?
[02:55] <arko> yes
[02:55] <arko> how do i know you are?
[02:55] <heathkid> you don't
[02:56] <arko> :O
[02:56] <heathkid> I might be here or over there... so somewhere else
[02:57] <arko> O_-
[02:57] <heathkid> if I respond... good chance I'm here
[02:57] <arko> true
[02:57] <heathkid> if not... probably asleep
[02:57] <heathkid> :)
[02:57] <heathkid> arko: you in the US?
[02:57] <arko> yep
[02:57] <arko> los angeles
[02:57] <heathkid> Indiana here
[02:57] <arko> oh awesome!
[02:58] <heathkid> have you done any balloon launches?
[02:58] <arko> just one
[02:58] <arko> lost her
[02:58] <arko> my love
[02:58] <heathkid> :(
[02:58] <arko> rip
[02:58] <heathkid> do another and send it my way
[02:58] <arko> http://habexproject.org/
[02:58] <arko> it's in the works
[02:58] <arko> we have a few trackers
[02:58] <arko> different design for the payload all together
[02:58] <arko> much better power management
[02:59] <arko> soon.....
[02:59] <arko> i need to get some dinner
[02:59] <arko> i think the europeans here are sleeping
[02:59] <arko> hence the quiet
[03:00] <arko> i keep going here when im on this channel http://www.daylightmap.com/index.php
[03:00] <arko> just to get an idea of which users are likely awake :P
[03:00] <SpeedEvil> I'm awakish
[03:00] <arko> lies
[03:01] <SpeedEvil> ish
[03:01] <SpeedEvil> it's 4am
[03:01] <arko> haha
[03:01] <heathkid> thanks arko!
[03:01] <heathkid> TONS of great info and links!
[03:01] <arko> :)
[03:01] <arko> happy to help
[03:01] <arko> lucky you
[03:01] <arko> you have have lots of flat land
[03:01] <heathkid> no kidding
[03:02] <heathkid> that's true
[03:02] <arko> we have mountains and water
[03:02] <arko> both suck for habs
[03:02] <heathkid> I'm sure
[03:03] <heathkid> been watching http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[03:04] <heathkid> is PICO still up?
[03:04] <heathkid> the time stamps don't make any sense to me
[03:05] <arko> we're crazy like that
[03:05] <arko> month-day-year
[03:05] <arko> where the rest of the world uses logic
[03:05] <heathkid> and SP9UOB/2 is just absolutely amazing!
[03:06] <heathkid> no, the data doesn't seem to be updating although the position does
[03:06] <arko> holy cow
[03:06] <arko> is that flying right now?
[03:07] <heathkid> I don't know... the timestamp is off
[03:07] <arko> 10-20
[03:07] <arko> yeah
[03:07] <arko> last reported date
[03:08] <heathkid> but the position keeps changing...
[03:08] <arko> does anyone know how to get registered on this?
[03:08] <heathkid> I don't... trying to learn
[03:09] <arko> i assume one of the guys here needs to add your balloon
[03:09] <arko> i was planning on using aprs
[03:09] <heathkid> same here
[03:09] <heathkid> but it seems everyone is using RTTY?
[03:10] <arko> i think so, or was it something else? aprs in europe is not allowed for aircraft
[03:10] <heathkid> ah
[03:10] <heathkid> what happens then if my HAB reaches Europe?
[03:11] <heathkid> I know... not going to happen anyway
[03:11] <heathkid> but what if?
[03:11] <arko> fcc violation bill?
[03:11] <arko> i duno
[03:11] <arko> probably what normally happens.. no one minds
[03:12] <heathkid> jetstream frequently passes directly over me
[03:12] <heathkid> you may have more mountains and water... but I've got weather to deal with
[03:13] <arko> haha
[03:13] <heathkid> so far I've done 2 balloon launches in my lifetime...
[03:13] <arko> true
[03:14] <heathkid> first, I was 13 and my friend and I didn't know better...
[03:14] <heathkid> launched a weather balloon from an airport in Kalamazoo, MI where his dad worked... without telling anyone
[03:14] <heathkid> ooops
[03:14] <arko> SHIT
[03:14] <arko> hahaha
[03:14] <heathkid> shut down O'Hare for almost an hour
[03:14] <arko> no NOTAM i assume
[03:14] <arko> wow
[03:15] <heathkid> they were more upset we were out on the runway and had to divert an incoming plane
[03:15] <heathkid> live and learn
[03:15] <arko> wow
[03:15] <heathkid> what is a NOTAM anyway?
[03:15] <arko> oh boy
[03:15] <arko> it's a notice to airmen
[03:15] <heathkid> ah
[03:15] <arko> so they know there is an unmanned balloon
[03:15] <heathkid> that makes sense
[03:16] <arko> pretty much, don't crash into this
[03:16] <heathkid> my second launch was just a latex ballon with a card with my name and address on it.... got a letter back from someone almost 1,000 miles away!
[03:16] <heathkid> again.... I was just a kid then
[03:16] <arko> nice!
[03:17] <heathkid> no... *many* years later... I'm getting a bit obsessed with HABs
[03:17] <heathkid> now
[03:17] <heathkid> not no
[03:18] <heathkid> but there isn't exactly a "Dummy's Guide to High Altitude Ham Radio Balloon Launches"...
[03:19] <heathkid> I'm no dummy... but need that guide! :)
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[03:20] <heathkid> and I'm still a bit "metric" impared
[03:20] <heathkid> but with my converters... it only takes me a few seconds
[03:20] <heathkid> temp I work with in C every day
[03:21] <heathkid> altitude... not so much
[03:21] <heathkid> grams... no problem
[03:22] <heathkid> but right now... as I add it up... with what I want even in my first payload... I don't want to lose it!
[03:23] <heathkid> I want more than pretty pictures (of course I want those too!)...
[03:23] <heathkid> but the range of sensors I want to fly is a VERY long list...
[03:24] <heathkid> I'm lucky I can test my payloads in a high-altitude chamber and sub-zero chamber at work
[03:24] <heathkid> the temperature inversion is facinating to me
[03:25] <heathkid> I know about it.... but when Felix was doing it as I watched live... I was in awe!
[03:25] <heathkid> and I kept thinking... okay... what's the cosmic background radiation?
[03:26] <heathkid> a HAB with a geiger counter would make an awesome random number source!
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[03:27] <heathkid> our high-altitude chamber goes to 65k+ feet
[03:27] <heathkid> just replace the seals about two months ago
[03:27] <heathkid> but can't do temp at the same time
[03:28] <heathkid> unless I put one of our smaller chambers inside the high-altitude chamber (which I just though of...)
[03:28] <heathkid> not sure how that'd work though
[03:29] <heathkid> I seriously doubt the Cincinnatti sub-zero's are made to work at an almost vacuum
[03:29] <heathkid> am I talking to myself?
[03:31] <heathkid> figures...
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[04:13] <mfa298> heathkid: for the uk at least the amateur radio license doesn't allow use airbourne
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[04:15] <mfa298> so we use low powered devices in bits of the spectrum that allow use from airborne stuff
[04:15] <MLow> ok can anyone here run agwpe and tell me if they can decode this ?
[04:15] <mfa298> but it's a limit of 10mW and doesn't tie in with any aprs frequencies
[04:17] <MLow> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12996303/test_aprs_10-21-12-2318.wma
[04:18] <MLow> its from my radio that refuses to transmit a packet that is decodable
[04:19] <MLow> as far as radios that can transmit on aprs what options are there?
[04:21] <mfa298> MLow: I'm afraid I don't know enough about aprs, It's been a while since i did anything with it.
[04:22] <mfa298> you probably want one of the other US people to re-appear
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[04:51] <MLow> mfa298: i think i fix
[04:51] <MLow> my deviation was too high apparently
[04:51] <MLow> i changed out the cap for a miniscule one and that fixed it
[04:51] <MLow> but the real question is why
[04:51] <MLow> why is too much deviation bad
[04:51] <MLow> or where the line is
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[04:57] <DrLuke> Upu: "Probably best you come chat further on IRC rather than continuing the conversation on IRC!" fail
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[05:24] <nigelvh_> MLow, are you still on?
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[05:26] <nigelvh_> I have to be heading off to bed. But in summary, if you don't know someone with a proper deviation meter or a spectrum analyzer, you'll want to set your deviation to about the same loudness as you hear from other packet stations
[05:26] <nigelvh_> Too low a devation will make your packets quiet. Too high can cause distortion.
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[05:27] <nigelvh_> Adjusting the cap will adjust the cutoff frequency. Since you're working with a noisy source (Trackuino) then this is important. I'd use what they recommend. I don't use a trackuino source, But for a reference, I use a 0.1uF capacitor.
[05:28] <nigelvh_> The total voltage swing is what gives the deviation. If you need to reduce the deviation, you'll need to reduce the voltage swing. Since your swing will be from Ground to X volts, then a resistor divider should work fine.
[05:29] <nigelvh_> Anyway, hopefully you catch this, and hopefully it's helpful. Catch y'all later!
[05:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Ali al-Azzawi "[UKHAS] Re: Bit of help needed"
[05:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Holloway "Re: [UKHAS] Bit of help needed"
[05:31] Nick change: nigelvh -> Guest32871
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[06:41] <MLow> nigelvh_: im barely up
[06:43] <MLow> dang i just read that
[06:43] <MLow> well ill play with it, but it sounds like im on the right track, a 0.1uF and a voltage divider if it's too loud?
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[07:10] <olivier-Nevers> 73 all
[07:12] <olivier-Nevers> https://www.facebook.com/groups/368024346612058/
[07:14] <x-f> morning
[07:14] <MLow> morning
[07:14] <x-f> "You must log in to see this page." :/
[07:14] <number10> .
[07:19] <UpuWork> morning
[07:19] <UpuWork> I no have facebook
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[07:24] <olivier-Nevers> ahh sorry
[07:25] <number10> morning
[07:26] <olivier-Nevers> good morning
[07:33] <MLow> 100nf cap on this makes it so loud
[07:34] <number10> did you notice any difference in aquisition current between the ublox q and G versions UpuWork ?
[07:34] <number10> I just love the spec Icc Acquisition All 4719 mA
[07:34] <number10> oops 47mA
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[07:38] <UpuWork> not measure it
[07:39] <number10> tnx
[07:39] <UpuWork> measured it
[07:40] <number10> p
[07:41] <number10> ok n
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[07:45] <nosebleedkt> hi everybody
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[07:45] <nosebleedkt> how is the winter coming ?
[07:45] <nosebleedkt> :d
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[07:46] <number10> not cold yet nosebleedkt
[07:46] <number10> but will be by the end of the week
[07:47] <nosebleedkt> u r located?
[07:49] <eroomde> quite an existential questions for this early
[07:50] <number10> at the moment I am in cambridge uk - and its foggy
[07:50] <jonsowman> certainly is
[07:51] <nosebleedkt> i want to make you happy and tell that GR is foggy too right now
[07:51] <nosebleedkt> :D
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[07:55] <MLow> 1nf cap, messed with the knobs, the bottom one seems to be center frequency top deviation
[07:55] <MLow> getting decodes
[07:55] <MLow> should i be worried or all is well if i am getting decodes and my packets sound the same as local traffic
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[08:11] <nosebleedkt> seeedstudio delayed my order 1 months. I asked why and they told that they had personnel changes :D
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[08:16] <UpuWork> parts or PCB's ?
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[08:55] <Lucasbuck> morning
[08:59] Action: tekbwainz howdy to all!
[09:05] <fsphil> morrrnin
[09:12] <eroomde> hello tekbwainz
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[10:18] <WillDuckworth> hey - Upu - was the pico at the weekend your latest 1.8v board? - most impressive
[10:19] <hibby> we've not got any allocation on 5.8GHz do we?
[10:19] <hibby> http://www.fit.ac.jp/~tanaka/fitsat.shtml
[10:19] <hibby> 115kbps downlink!
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[10:20] <RG-lz1dev> is that the artificial star one
[10:21] <fsphil> hehe, this looks familiar: http://www.fit.ac.jp/~tanaka/FITSAT/firstImageA.jpg
[10:22] <hibby> nah, Fitsat-1, the japenese cubesat
[10:22] <hibby> it was spewed out the ISS at the beginning of the month
[10:22] <fsphil> it has an LED which is suppose to be visible on the ground
[10:22] <hibby> yeah, does the morse code of it's name
[10:22] <RG-lz1dev> NIWAKA's high power LEDs will be driven with more than 200W pulses to
[10:22] <RG-lz1dev> produce extremely bright flashes. These, we hope, will be observable by
[10:22] <RG-lz1dev> the unaided eye or with small binoculars.
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[10:25] <hibby> where the hell are they getting 200W from...
[10:25] <hibby> and how are they driving that power around, it's only got 12v/5v/3v busesa
[10:25] <RG-lz1dev> its probably on some duty cycle
[10:27] <fsphil> 200W for maybe a few microseconds
[10:27] <hibby> Duty 30%, 10Hz signal is modulated with also duty 30%, 5kHz signal.
[10:27] <hibby> So the average input power will be 220W x 0.3 x 0.3 = 20W.
[10:27] <fsphil> they don't switch it on very often too
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[10:29] <hibby> 1A is still quite a bit of heat to dissipate, given space dissipation is purely radiative...
[10:34] <eroomde> unit abuse
[10:34] <eroomde> and 2) there's also conduction, which ultimately needs to be radiated but in the case of a high power led you'd probably have it on a heat sink which has a much larger area from which to radiate
[10:35] <eroomde> infact aluminium PCBs exist basically foir high power LED designs
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[10:52] <Scottjames> Hey Guys long time since i last was chatting away here, Since my Orion project back in 2010
[10:52] <Scottjames> Anyone online today?
[10:55] <Scottjames> Anyone from CUSF here?
[10:55] <UpuWork> yes and yes to both welcome back
[10:56] <Scottjames> Awesome :) thank you..ive been busy with working at a space company, but now i have time to play with since the poor economy
[10:56] <Scottjames> I was wanting to run a new project by you guys :) that cool?
[10:57] <navrac_work> we like new projects :-)
[10:57] <Scottjames> Right i don't know if you guys are familiar with my previous project, its still on the UKHAS site.
[10:57] <Scottjames> I basically want to do a slim line version with a twist
[10:58] <fsphil> got a link handy?
[10:58] <Scottjames> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:orion?s[]=orion
[10:58] <fsphil> ta
[10:59] <navrac_work> ok - camera +tracker payload
[10:59] <fsphil> that's a well packed payload box :)
[10:59] <Scottjames> lol yep
[10:59] <Scottjames> and it survived :)
[10:59] <Scottjames> I want the next payload more exposed more cameras etc
[11:00] <Scottjames> whats a good pic site to upload a quick drawing i have of the new project
[11:00] <fsphil> imgur
[11:01] <Scottjames> right give me 2-3 mins ill upload it
[11:01] <navrac_work> it sounds more interesting than my work at the moment :-), glad for a distraction
[11:02] <RG-lz1dev> hey Scottjames what did you use to stich the shots?
[11:02] <Scottjames> well as i said i have lots of time now! and i have always wanted to do a Version 2.0!
[11:02] <fsphil> lol navrac_work
[11:03] <Scottjames> Now i have experince with a space company it helps alot i was doing cube sat orbital analysis :)
[11:03] <x-f> i get the "it survived" remark, it hit ground two times shortly after launch :)
[11:03] <x-f> (watching the video)
[11:05] <Scottjames> uploading now :)
[11:05] <Scottjames> yep!!
[11:06] <Scottjames> but also survived the fast decent (it was a little heavy i added another camera last minute)
[11:06] <Scottjames> but got the data and awesome pictures :)
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[11:06] <Scottjames> Right this is the link : http://i.imgur.com/r7t6O.jpg
[11:08] <Scottjames> Bascially its payload with HD cameras (not SD last time) and GPS. Plus below a rocket launching system, with a GPS camera onboard that will fire at 100,000 feet. capturing video of the payload and balloon behind it and a camera on the forward front
[11:09] <Scottjames> Would be great to see the whole payload and balloon apartaus from 100,000 feet :) i've never done that before
[11:10] <Scottjames> But im new to rocketry and willing to learn.....so what do u all think????
[11:10] <fsphil> check out this photo: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/daveake/7971034906/in/photostream
[11:10] <fsphil> the little dot at the bottom is another flight
[11:11] <Scottjames> awesome!
[11:11] <fsphil> I think your biggest challange will be the CAA
[11:11] <Scottjames> very nice! im hoping to get close up video of the fllight from the rocket when it launches
[11:11] <Scottjames> humm
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[11:13] <Scottjames> do they not like rockets attached to payloads?
[11:13] <navrac_work> isnt it best to put the payload below the rocket - otherwise the angle of the rocket could be anything as theres no weight pulling down
[11:14] <Scottjames> well the payload was always under the balloon, so it follows the rocket apartus would be too i suppose. Also i was thinking of making it a rigid structure
[11:14] <Scottjames> I was wanting the top and side views not being obstructed, hence the rocket at the bottom of the payload
[11:15] <fsphil> the rocket launching is going to cause things to bounce around a bit too
[11:16] <Scottjames> Shall i contact the CAA to see if it possible for my layout?
[11:16] <navrac_work> sadly my rocket knowledge<<0 but the rest is pretty standard tech
[11:16] <fsphil> I would certainly enquire before commiting to anything
[11:16] <Scottjames> it would be a short rocket launch maybe longer as less oxygen up there
[11:17] <fsphil> there are many risks though
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[11:17] <navrac_work> yep - like the rocket firing downwards...
[11:17] <Scottjames> well the rocket could miss fire....
[11:17] <fsphil> or not firing at all, and landing somewhere populated
[11:17] <navrac_work> no harm in asking though
[11:17] <Scottjames> humm if the launching apartus is fixed at 130 degrees
[11:18] <Scottjames> then the rocket placed as it is i cant see it launching downwards
[11:18] <navrac_work> it can get pretty bumpy up there
[11:18] <Scottjames> yep i know hence the video...but a rigid structure would help that
[11:18] <navrac_work> yes it would
[11:19] <fsphil> what sort of tracker for the rocket?
[11:19] <Scottjames> i would have it fixed beneath the payload
[11:19] <Scottjames> the similar GPS cellular tracker
[11:20] <Scottjames> there are smaller ones avaible that are the size of a small black berry
[11:20] <Scottjames> i would attach it to the surving section of the rocket which has the parachute
[11:20] <Scottjames> also the cameras would be attached to this section
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[11:21] <fsphil> might be worth looking at 434mhz radio tracking
[11:22] <navrac_work> tech has moved on a bit - the standard now is 434mhz trackers - upu/jcoxons launnch on friday had gps+batteries weighing in at under 15g
[11:22] <Scottjames> oh wow that is awesome
[11:22] <Scottjames> this one uses a nokia lithum battery
[11:22] <navrac_work> and you will need some weight saving to put up 3x cameras +structure plus rocket
[11:22] <fsphil> which has the big advantage of being able to track it at all times
[11:22] <Scottjames> and sends sms GPS location on a timer or when prompted
[11:23] <navrac_work> single AA for the last launch - although with a shorter duration a single aaa would do
[11:23] <Scottjames> well i plan to have a light weight housing
[11:23] <Scottjames> oh nice
[11:23] <Scottjames> yeah i used AA lithum ion batteries lasted the whole flight down to landing
[11:23] <navrac_work> cameras sadly are still heavy
[11:23] <fsphil> and the small ones are also gps-jammers :)
[11:24] <navrac_work> tin foil is your friend
[11:24] <fsphil> ooh I could make a hat
[11:24] <Scottjames> small ones GPS jammers :( mine never jammed it
[11:24] <Scottjames> but i have a metal housing around them
[11:24] <navrac_work> need something thicker to save you from falling rockets though!
[11:25] <Scottjames> do you think that its possible to launch a pretimed rocket at thoose heights? as i siad i have little experince with rockets...
[11:25] <fsphil> if the parachute failed, I'm not sure a hat of any kind would help :)
[11:25] <navrac_work> well it's certainly ambitious - the permission and rocket tech are going to be the hard bits
[11:26] <fsphil> cuddykid I believe has looked into it, might be worth asking him when he's on
[11:26] <Scottjames> i have ideas for the appartus....and the rest i know how i could imporve on my previous project
[11:26] <navrac_work> i'd be tempted to use the gps altitude to launch the rockets and probably a gyro to check everything is pointing the right way
[11:26] <Scottjames> righty
[11:27] <Scottjames> thats a good idea
[11:27] <fsphil> yea
[11:27] <Scottjames> before to calculate the cameras
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[11:27] <Scottjames> i worked out the ascent calculations
[11:27] <fsphil> do you have a way of keeping the rocket in place, if the balloon burst early?
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[11:27] <Scottjames> Well
[11:27] <Scottjames> if it bursts early it doesnt matter
[11:28] <Scottjames> as the payload parachute would still hold it all in place
[11:28] <Scottjames> added it will be going down not up though
[11:28] <navrac_work> hmm thats going to be tricky isnt it - the number of time bits of payloads fall off in turbulence means you need to secure the rocket well
[11:28] <fsphil> not at first, the whole thing may spin around a bit after burst
[11:28] <fsphil> due to the lack of air resistance
[11:28] <Scottjames> well a carbon fibre or arcylic housing in that 130 degrees is the idea
[11:29] <Scottjames> that is true
[11:29] <Scottjames> I was planning to fire the rocket earlier than the burst altitude
[11:29] <fsphil> you can never guarantee a burst altitude
[11:29] <fsphil> we've recently had a few that burst much lower than expected
[11:30] <eroomde> hello Scottjames
[11:30] <eroomde> it's Ed Moore
[11:30] <Scottjames> Hey Ed how is it all going
[11:30] <eroomde> forgive me not reading all the backlog, what are you planning?
[11:30] <eroomde> it's all going very well thyanks!
[11:30] <Scottjames> sorry for not keeping in touch!
[11:31] <Scottjames> jobs then now having time off i can focus my new experince as a graduate systems engineer :)
[11:31] <eroomde> no worries - people drift in and out of hobbies it's quite normal :)
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[11:31] <eroomde> ah nice
[11:31] <eroomde> well done for graduating!
[11:31] <Scottjames> Thanks :) i got my first award for Orion :) helped me alot in getting my previous two jobs one with a canadian space company :)
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[11:32] <Scottjames> got a 2:1 over all too :)
[11:32] <eroomde> good stuff!
[11:32] <Scottjames> thanks to you guys for the help with the project :)
[11:32] <eroomde> so where are you working now?
[11:32] <Scottjames> cheers
[11:32] <Scottjames> well thats the thing the graduate scheme ended and the bad economics in canada forced some people out
[11:32] <eroomde> ah right, yes that seems to be happening a fair bit
[11:33] <Scottjames> so now i have free time while appling to countless jobs, london oxford all engineering though :)
[11:33] <Scottjames> What are you up to?
[11:33] <eroomde> where have you applied in Oxford?
[11:34] <eroomde> I live in ox now, working on rocket propulsion research for Reaction Engines Ltd, and general space consulting
[11:34] <Scottjames> Oh and i didnt mention you might remmber Cathy(my girlfriend) who was at the launch in cambridge with me. i proposed last december and now we are getting married next july in oxford :)
[11:34] <fsphil> congrats!
[11:34] <eroomde> yeah congrats!
[11:34] <Scottjames> OOH nice! :) didn't know you where so close. I know reaction engines :) nice company
[11:34] <Scottjames> congrats
[11:34] <Scottjames> cheers :)
[11:35] <eroomde> you live locally too?
[11:35] <Scottjames> Im in abingdon
[11:35] <Scottjames> so 10 mins to oxford
[11:35] <eroomde> ah right
[11:35] <eroomde> yes
[11:35] <Scottjames> you around central oxford?
[11:35] <eroomde> i'm on osney island, so easy to get to abingdon
[11:35] <eroomde> and yes, not surpriused you know REL then :)
[11:35] <Scottjames> Oh nice :)
[11:36] <Scottjames> So yeah i want to do an upgraded slim line version of my previous project...but with a twist
[11:36] <eroomde> go on
[11:36] <Scottjames> Alot of poeple are doing high altitude projects liek the ipad 2 recently. i want to be different
[11:37] <Scottjames> here is my layout
[11:37] <Scottjames> http://i.imgur.com/r7t6O.jpg
[11:38] <eroomde> a rockoon
[11:38] <Scottjames> Bascailly HD cameras not SD, i want them more exposed from the payload. I want to have a model rocket with two cameras onboard plus GPS parachute etc to launch at 100,000 feet to capture the whole payload and balloon close up
[11:38] <fsphil> interesting, http://ossmann.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/introducing-hackrf.html
[11:38] <fsphil> SDR with 100-6000mhz range, and can transmit
[11:38] <Scottjames> Nice :)
[11:38] <eroomde> Scottjames: sounds fun :)
[11:39] <Scottjames> indeed and different. i always wanted to see the whole payload and balloon up close as one. plus there is two backups
[11:39] <eroomde> so the rocket is looking back at the balloon?
[11:40] <Scottjames> as cameras on the rocket and in the payload. Once both seperate and come down...if we can either one back we still get the video data
[11:40] <Scottjames> looking at the top right bottom of the payload
[11:41] <Scottjames> 130 degrees
[11:41] <eroomde> cool
[11:41] <Scottjames> so it fires away from the payload and balloon capturing video ahead of the rocket and behind it
[11:41] <eroomde> 2-5 minutes burn!?
[11:41] <Scottjames> maybe get 800 away from it
[11:42] <eroomde> are you sure?
[11:42] <Scottjames> I'm very new to rocketary so i think maybe 5 seconds burn
[11:42] <eroomde> yes
[11:42] <Scottjames> reading a bit more anout it
[11:42] <eroomde> if that
[11:42] <eroomde> 2-5 minutes is sort of orbital sat launch vehicle territory
[11:42] <Scottjames> thats what i need advice on
[11:42] <eroomde> well you've come to the right place
[11:42] <Scottjames> I was doing cube sat oribital analysis at my previous job so forgive me lol
[11:43] <Scottjames> Good i knew you guys would be great to help
[11:43] <eroomde> expectations remanagement :)
[11:43] <fsphil> haha
[11:43] <eroomde> most of the amateur solid motors, if that's what you want to use, are <5s burn
[11:44] <Scottjames> right
[11:44] <eroomde> you can go a bit longer with liquids but that involves designing a liquid rocket engine and plumbing and tanks and all sorts
[11:45] <Scottjames> yeah i think standard ones
[11:45] <Scottjames> C6-3
[11:45] <eroomde> oh very wee ones then!
[11:45] <eroomde> what is the rocket mass you were thinking?
[11:45] <Scottjames> b4-2s?
[11:45] <eroomde> these are all very small motors
[11:45] <eroomde> like, bog-roll tube rocket motors
[11:45] <Scottjames> well the cameras i was looking at was to use these camcorders using lithum ion batteries 32 gb storage etc
[11:45] <eroomde> with very shorts burns
[11:46] <Scottjames> Well i need a motor that supports two camcorders or small cameras
[11:46] <Scottjames> GPS is light weight enough
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[11:47] <eroomde> you'll have to design the payload first i think
[11:47] <Scottjames> If i wanted to be very ambitious i could have a larger rocket larger motor and get alot of feet away from the balloon
[11:47] <eroomde> find out the mass
[11:47] <Scottjames> but i just want enough to clear it and get a good capture of the payload balloon strucutre
[11:47] <eroomde> well, stability will be an issue
[11:47] <eroomde> fins are less effective
[11:47] <Scottjames> I mentioned before that i was hoping to attach the cameras and gps to the surviving section of the rocket that has the paracute attached to it
[11:48] <eroomde> you need a great deal of speed to get an equivlant dynamic pressure to ground level
[11:48] <eroomde> suggesting chunkier motors too
[11:48] <Scottjames> yep...plus the deliver apparatus is going to be tricky
[11:48] <fsphil> hadn't thought of stability. the rocket could spin like mad
[11:48] <Scottjames> do i need much more at 100,000 feet, i know there is less oxygen for burn..
[11:49] <Scottjames> with a rigid launching aparatus hopefully the 130 degree angle will point it up
[11:49] <Scottjames> (the rocket)
[11:49] <eroomde> you don't need any oxygen in the atmosphere for a rocket
[11:50] <eroomde> that's why they work in space :)
[11:50] <Scottjames> I was also thinking of getting a 360 paranmoic camera apparatus...but i haven;t get a spare Iphone 4 with go pano capability lol
[11:50] <eroomde> and pointing angle makes 0 difference
[11:50] <eroomde> if it's not ingerently stable, there is nothing to stop it tumbling
[11:50] <Scottjames> humm
[11:50] <eroomde> you can point it down, up, sidewways, whatever you like
[11:50] <russss> slantways, crossways
[11:50] <Scottjames> well i dont think i can put attitude stablisers on the rocket
[11:50] <eroomde> but if it's not a stable design, i.e. the centre of pressure behind the centre of mass, it'll just do wierd things
[11:50] <Scottjames> they cost a fair bit
[11:51] <eroomde> don't give up on fins
[11:51] <Scottjames> start putting gyroscopes etc
[11:51] <Scottjames> fins are good...just makes the launching difficult but i have ideas
[11:51] <Scottjames> maybe a sling shot delivery system??
[11:52] <Scottjames> like the P-pod deployers?
[11:52] <eroomde> but what stops it spinning once it's free of the launch apparatus?
[11:52] <fsphil> might be easier just to inflate a second balloon and release that :)
[11:53] <Scottjames> humm is that possible? wont the gas continer be heavy?
[11:53] <fsphil> or tether two together, and release at 30km
[11:53] <eroomde> my point is, it has to be able to stabilise itself in order to stay on some course keeping the cameras pointed in some approximately correct way
[11:53] <Scottjames> lol that would be cool
[11:53] <Scottjames> be like twins lol
[11:53] <Scottjames> like the moon gravity Ebb and Flow
[11:54] <Scottjames> indeed...the placement of the cameras opposite from each other will catch the payload and balloon at most angles once fired
[11:54] <Scottjames> i would have though
[11:54] <Scottjames> t
[11:54] Action: Laurenceb pops into channel
[11:54] <Laurenceb> "no comment"
[11:54] <fsphil> as if by magic
[11:55] <Laurenceb> launching a rockoon is hard
[11:55] <Laurenceb> id suggest spin stabilisation
[11:55] <fsphil> actually I might do that dual launch some day
[11:55] <Laurenceb> but eroomde may disagree
[11:55] <Scottjames> that would be cool
[11:55] <Scottjames> It must be possible to launch a rocket from that altitufe
[11:55] <Laurenceb> i was idly wondering about launching an estes rocket
[11:56] <fsphil> it's been done in the US
[11:56] <eroomde> less useful if u want nice camera footage from the rocket :)
[11:56] <fsphil> sans-rocket camera
[11:56] <Laurenceb> linear photodiode array
[11:56] <fsphil> hah
[11:56] <Scottjames> well thats the thing i want the smoothest footage
[11:56] <fsphil> rockets rarely produce smooth anything
[11:56] <eroomde> :)
[11:56] <Laurenceb> you could have a deployable camera
[11:57] <eroomde> deployable anything is faff
[11:58] <eroomde> if you can get a 20g camera and 10g radio gps tracker, and a nice stable thin rocket, and a really fast burning rocket motor, and a longish launch tube
[11:58] <Scottjames> what ways are there to stablise a model rocket at thoose heights apart from fins
[11:58] <eroomde> then i think you might have a gooer
[11:58] <eroomde> spinning
[11:58] <eroomde> active guidance
[11:58] <fsphil> the gopro v3's 240fps mode would produce nice video from a rocket
[11:58] <Scottjames> thats what i was thinking a thin rocket
[11:58] <eroomde> a perfectly axial rocket exhaiust in a perfectly balanced rocket with no external disturbances
[11:59] <Scottjames> thats a good idea
[11:59] <eroomde> what is?
[11:59] <Scottjames> perfectly axial rocket exhaust
[11:59] <Laurenceb> with estes motors there no hope of a camera
[12:00] <Scottjames> or am i not understanding it right
[12:00] <eroomde> er that was a joke :)
[12:00] <eroomde> it's not actually possible
[12:00] <Scottjames> lol
[12:00] <Laurenceb> a very light radio beakon is all youll have
[12:00] <eroomde> it's a sort of thought-experiement/physics simulation answer
[12:00] <Laurenceb> but thats enough to get apogee
[12:00] <fsphil> spherical cows
[12:00] <Laurenceb> - work out that altitude
[12:00] <Scottjames> as u can see i am a bit out of my depth with rockets! but willing to learn
[12:00] <Laurenceb> id suggest trying to make a spun launcher for estes motors
[12:01] <eroomde> i think fins will be the way to do it, honestly
[12:01] <Laurenceb> its an "afternoon project"
[12:01] <Laurenceb> that will actually get you somewhere
[12:01] <eroomde> active guidance is a step if you are new to rockets
[12:01] <eroomde> yeah you could launch a spun rocket
[12:01] <eroomde> have it fly straight up to apogee
[12:01] <eroomde> deploy chute
[12:02] <eroomde> then film the balloon on the way back down under chute
[12:02] <eroomde> chute dployment will sort out the spinning
[12:02] <Scottjames> a spun rocket? as in the rocket starts spiining already? that would help i think
[12:02] <Laurenceb> i was thinking camera with some string hanging off it
[12:03] <Laurenceb> a motor is maybe the easiest way to do it for small rockets
[12:03] <Scottjames> filming the balloon on the way back down is the idea
[12:03] <eroomde> ok yeah
[12:03] <eroomde> if that's sufficient, then yep a spun rocket could be a good way
[12:04] <Scottjames> ill look up spun rockets :)
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[12:05] <eroomde> not much to find i don't think!
[12:05] <eroomde> you just want to spin it
[12:05] <Scottjames> from the launcher, maybe a specificlly designed tube
[12:05] <eroomde> yes
[12:06] <Scottjames> when it launches from it it starts to rotate quickly
[12:06] <eroomde> a tube with an electric motor in the base or something
[12:06] <Scottjames> oh yeah thats an idea
[12:06] <Scottjames> so it rotates then the motor fires
[12:06] <Scottjames> ?
[12:07] <Laurenceb> kind of
[12:07] <Laurenceb> i think theres better ways to do it
[12:07] <Laurenceb> but im not going to say
[12:07] <Laurenceb> cuz its secret
[12:08] <eroomde> maybe spin the launch tube that it's in
[12:08] <eroomde> can i strongly encourage you not to use a timer on launch also
[12:08] <eroomde> just do altitude
[12:08] <Scottjames> but then the rocket motor would burn the spining motor
[12:08] <eroomde> timers mean it will gpo off in your car
[12:08] <eroomde> i promise
[12:08] <Scottjames> could use a servo
[12:09] <eroomde> a hobby servo won't work
[12:09] <Scottjames> i'll look into electronics that have altitude timers that set it all off
[12:09] <eroomde> it needs to spin
[12:09] <eroomde> 'altitude timer'
[12:09] <eroomde> ?
[12:09] <eroomde> nhothing to do with time please :)
[12:09] <Scottjames> i haven;t used altitude to trigger anything before
[12:09] <Scottjames> i wont use a timer
[12:09] <Scottjames> promise
[12:10] <eroomde> timers are dangerous for pyreotechnics in this kind of situation
[12:10] <eroomde> you want to be able to precisely control when they go off
[12:10] <Scottjames> i can appreciate that indeed
[12:11] <eroomde> if you're unsure about the coding, get sure
[12:11] <Scottjames> Are there many launches going on from cambridge in this coming months?
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[12:11] <eroomde> there are usually a few yep
[12:11] <Laurenceb> <Scottjames> but then the rocket motor would burn the spining motor
[12:11] <Laurenceb> ... so?
[12:13] <Scottjames> yeah its not such a problem
[12:13] <mfa298> i think one of the other things to consider with any sort of pyro is have a small mechanical on-off switch so you can ensure it's safe during transport and preparation (just remember to switch it on as you launch)
[12:13] <Scottjames> but then the servo will be to be altitude atvited too
[12:13] <Scottjames> Thats a good point...thank you
[12:15] <eroomde> yes, absolutely have a hard safe link
[12:15] <eroomde> that totally separates the igniters from a power source
[12:16] <eroomde> on the high side rather than the low side too, as sometimes electroncs can find paths to ground in mkechatronics projects other than the wire you provided for them
[12:16] <Laurenceb> id suggest removing all batteries
[12:16] <Laurenceb> for transport
[12:17] <eroomde> can be faff
[12:17] <eroomde> for assembly
[12:18] <Scottjames> the cameras and GPS batteries won't be a problem. But for the rocket, not sure about the launcher system...
[12:18] <mfa298> a first launch without the actual rocket but with an indication of rocket firing might be worth while as well - helps prove the altitude detection code (having seen the fligts that stop reporting gps at 28km :p )
[12:18] <Scottjames> do they use sparks to ignite the rockets?
[12:19] <Scottjames> might be an option
[12:20] <fsphil> woo, I has F3 discovery board
[12:20] <eroomde> e-matches usually
[12:20] <Scottjames> I got loads to think about lol
[12:20] <Laurenceb> awesome
[12:20] <eroomde> a sort of pyrogenic material coating a hot wire
[12:20] <Laurenceb> fsphil: i just added skeleton project to my github
[12:20] <Scottjames> oh nice like a p-pod deployer wire
[12:20] <Scottjames> that burns through
[12:20] <Laurenceb> and f3 support for stlink
[12:20] <fsphil> I shall take a nosey
[12:20] <eroomde> yeah quite possibly
[12:21] <eroomde> in this case it ignites the pyrogen material
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[12:21] <eroomde> which flares nicely inside the motor
[12:21] <eroomde> then you're off
[12:21] <Scottjames> nice...no plasma spark plugs then lol
[12:22] <Scottjames> is it possible to use an E-Match while the rocket is rotating in the rotating tube?
[12:22] <Scottjames> wont the wire get twisted?
[12:22] <Scottjames> unless the tube rotated around the Ematch
[12:22] <eroomde> if you make it such that it twists then yes, it would
[12:22] <eroomde> but these kinds of details are the nitty gritty of design work
[12:22] <eroomde> which is your bit :)
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[12:23] <Scottjames> I like the challenge :)
[12:23] <Scottjames> i have an design idea now lol
[12:23] <Scottjames> would u suggest the rocket has fins in the tube for extra stablisation?
[12:26] <eroomde> do the sums
[12:26] <eroomde> barrowman equations
[12:26] <eroomde> there is no right answer to that question
[12:26] <Scottjames> its a tricky one :) i like tricky challenges
[12:26] <eroomde> you have to work it out for your specific situation, with youyr mnasses, centres of pressure, spin rates etc
[12:27] <Scottjames> right :)
[12:27] <Scottjames> i will look into them
[12:27] <Scottjames> Off to Lunch now, cheers for the all the advise. will be back later :)
[12:29] <eroomde> no probs!
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[12:41] <Laurenceb> yeah igniting spin stabilised is a little harder
[12:41] <Laurenceb> would be an interesting experiment to see how much current you can stick through a motor shaft
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> do you know of ball bearing motors?
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> also.
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> mercury lubricated bearings will carry lots more current
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> igniting spin stabilised is easy
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> sandpaper onto a rotating match
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[12:50] <Laurenceb> lmao
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> ball bearing motors are fun.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> also alas the reason I have lots of screwed up ball races I need to throw out when I find then
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> m
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[13:19] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement: Vortex"
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[13:36] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/T9tEE.jpg
[13:39] <craag> http://bit.ly/RoOQ2l Now that could be an interesting pico float..
[13:39] <fsphil> Icing better
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[13:41] <fsphil> that would be cool
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[13:43] <craag> Current payload doesn't have enough battery life though, so will have to wait :(
[13:47] <DrLuke> craag: yes please, Maybe I can hear it
[13:48] <DrLuke> wait a second
[13:48] <craag> DrLuke: I'd love to, got balloon+helium all ready, but the payload currently only lasts ~7 hours, maybe 10-12 with an AA, but might be too heavy to float. (42g with AA)
[13:48] <DrLuke> :/
[13:49] <DrLuke> broadcast less frequently
[13:50] <UpuWork> 10-12 is normal for 3.3V payload
[13:51] <UpuWork> from an AA
[13:51] <craag> Could do, but makes tracking less involving. I'll keep an eye on the predictions and see how much time I get to put it together this week.
[13:51] <craag> UpuWork: Yeah, but looks pathetic next to the 1.8V board :P
[13:53] <UpuWork> well my 3.3V board only does 12 hours too :)
[13:54] <craag> UpuWork: Mine can't be too bad then! Although it is made out of commercial modules so is probably more expensive and heavier than yours. (I'm still trying to get my head around 2-layer PCB cad in Eagle)
[13:55] <DrLuke> craag: what are you having problems with?
[13:55] <DrLuke> maybe I can help
[13:55] <UpuWork> yeah sure just ask
[13:55] <craag> DrLuke: I'm going to take another look this evening so might ask for help if I'm still stuck then. Now I've got a lecture to run to!
[13:56] <DrLuke> heh, good luck
[13:56] <zyp> eagle comes set up for two layers by default, so it should be easy enough
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[13:59] <DrLuke> ohmagerd, I've got the first gps lock ever with my board!
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[14:00] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[14:02] <DrLuke> and I send the data over usb
[14:02] <DrLuke> oh man so exciting :)
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> do you have a 150km lightweight USB lead?
[14:03] <DrLuke> it's not a payload :P
[14:04] <DrLuke> but the experience I gather from this will certainly help with a payload in the future
[14:07] <navrac_work> craag: ozzie1 floated for 10 hours with 45g weight at 5km till we lost it - just go for it!
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[14:22] <navrac_work> i prefer this flightpath as it flies over me plus a lot more european stations to start
[14:22] <navrac_work> https://www.thecraag.com/predict/#!/uuid=9849e31fb351ad05d5a5579d24e2e90b0b08bc99
[14:27] <number10> thats a nice flight navrac_work
[14:28] <number10> path
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[14:31] <eroomde> sorry i meant to put something in this window
[14:31] <eroomde> to my reading of ir2030, we can downlink 2W on 865.6-867.6Mhz
[14:32] <navrac_work> thats if we can persuade craag to launch tomorrow morning :-)
[14:33] <navrac_work> which section do you think we can use in ir2030?
[14:38] <craag> navrac: wow that is a nice path.
[14:39] <costyn_> navrac_work: hiya... fixed my TinyGPS problem... by downgrading to Arduino 0022 :)
[14:39] <navrac_work> sounds typical!
[14:39] <costyn_> yea couldn't figure it out, so now I'm using the known good library which is linked to in the wiki
[14:40] <navrac_work> now craag - you have to launch tomorrow at 10am for that path - so lets get this payload sorted!
[14:40] <costyn_> last problem to tackle is my voltage divider which is behaving strangly
[14:40] <navrac_work> is that the voltage divider to measure battery voltage?
[14:40] <costyn_> yes
[14:41] <navrac_work> oh no problem - simple answer - they are always rubbish
[14:41] <navrac_work> batttery is at best a guess on the arduino
[14:41] <costyn_> the analog reading is cycling through 3 different values, 2 close and 1 waaaaay off
[14:41] <costyn_> ah
[14:41] <costyn_> daveake seems to have had one that worked on his pro mini
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[14:42] <craag> navrac: Hmm, ill see if anyones around to help. i dont have any lectures tomorrow morning..
[14:43] <navrac_work> craag: you could try the low power code i used in ozzie3 - that would give yoyu probably an extra 10 hours - but apparently some people have struggled with it
[14:44] <navrac_work> costyn: have you tried a decoupling cap on the input at remembered that the internal vref on the pro mini is something odd
[14:44] <costyn_> navrac_work: er, no neither :)
[14:44] <costyn_> I used the vcc voltage as ref, that wrong?
[14:45] <craag> It is currently programmed to enter interval telem (3x string per 10 minutes) after 1000 strings. ill just tweak that i think.
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[14:45] <navrac_work> most people do a rolling average of 5 readings on the a2d
[14:45] <costyn_> interesting
[14:45] <craag> costyn: i use the internal 1.1v reference with a 3:1 divider on my pro mini.
[14:45] <UpuWork> yeah the adc on the AVR is crap
[14:46] <costyn_> I don't really care that much about the voltage, it seemed like such a simple circuit for some extra fun information, but if it's crap I'll scrap it
[14:46] <costyn_> craag: and yours works ok?
[14:46] <navrac_work> analogReference(INTERNAL); //1.1V for mini
[14:46] <costyn_> navrac_work: good to know thanks
[14:46] <craag> costyn: work great. see my code on github.
[14:47] <navrac_work> and then a 3:1 divider as craag says - keep the r values quite lowish so its not too noise sensitive
[14:47] <craag> i needed very low impedance though.
[14:47] <craag> ^^ what navrac said :-)
[14:48] <costyn_> uh you guys are gonna have to help me out on the 3:1 divider. just googled it, but I dont see anything that looks relevant
[14:49] <navrac_work> upuwork - did you ever get the powersave mode on the gps working reliably
[14:49] Action: costyn_ = relatively new to electronics
[14:50] <jonsowman> don't enable the internal reference if you've got AREF connected externally to VCC
[14:50] <craag> costyn: its a voltage divider that cuts the voltage down to a third of the input.
[14:50] <navrac_work> ok try a battery>330 ohm - tap to a2d-100 ohm deck not quite 3:1 but you can fiddle the result
[14:50] <costyn_> craag: aah ok
[14:50] <costyn_> thanks guys
[14:51] <navrac_work> so 3v3 on the input should give 1v on the a2d
[14:51] <craag> i got 0.02 volt accuracy. gives some nice graphs :-)
[14:52] <navrac_work> trouble is i found with fluctuating power (tx/rx,gps lock no lock) it needed to be averaged out
[14:52] <jonsowman> just to be clear, a divider with 100 and 330 Ohms is going to _quarter_ the input voltage, not third it
[14:52] <jonsowman> 100/(100+330) = 0.23
[14:52] <navrac_work> oh yes sorry jonsowman - brain not in geat
[14:52] <navrac_work> gear even
[14:52] <costyn_> craag: did you need a smoothing function for it on yours?
[14:53] <navrac_work> sorry 220 ohm
[14:53] <costyn_> ok, so 100 ohms and 220 ohms
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[14:54] <navrac_work> gives 100/(100+220)
[14:54] <costyn_> 0.3125
[14:55] <craag> costyn: Dont think so, but i was using powersaving modes, so there wouldn`t be much flutter.
[14:55] <navrac_work> if you sample at the same time in each loop then it should be ok
[14:56] <craag> I occasionally got +-0.03 volt jumps/dips, but thats all.
[14:56] <jonsowman> puts caps everywhere and it'll be fine ;)
[14:57] <navrac_work> if you can get the powersaving on the gps working the gps current consumption falls to about 12-15mA which will give you more battery life as its the gps that eats it
[14:57] <craag> I was using 2x330 ohm and 1x330 ohm for the divider i think.
[14:57] <costyn_> jonsowman: :)
[14:57] <UpuWork> navrac_work no, need to spend some more time on it
[14:57] <costyn_> UpuWork: did you get my 2nd gps unit yet? I sent it last week
[14:58] <UpuWork> yes sorry got it today
[14:58] <UpuWork> fixed I think will test tonight, did you glue it ?
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[15:01] <costyn_> UpuWork: ah nice; yea I glued it myself
[15:02] <costyn_> UpuWork: did you also replace the antenna?
[15:02] <costyn_> (to fix it I mean)
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[15:03] <UpuWork12> sorry disconnected
[15:03] <MLow> a wild MLow appears
[15:03] <UpuWork12> I think your glue gun was a soldering iron in a second life
[15:04] <UpuWork12> one of the pins was lifted but not bent or broken
[15:04] <UpuWork12> I've resoldered it and will test it tonight
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[15:06] <Upu> disconnected again navrac
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[15:07] <costyn_> Upu: urgh... sorry might have touched one of the pads by accident perhaps? glue guns don't get *that* hot do they?
[15:07] <UpuWork> well mine doesn't
[15:07] <UpuWork> but this was desoldered
[15:07] <UpuWork> so no idea
[15:08] <costyn_> weird
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[15:16] <navrac_work> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Icom-PCR-1000-Communications-receiver-with-UT-106-DSP-module-fitted-pcr1000-/321003337523?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Ham_Radio_Receivers_Transceivers&hash=item4abd4a3733
[15:17] <navrac_work> i might get this and find an old aerial and small pc to give to someone as an extra tracking site
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[15:18] <navrac_work> spain or finland possibly
[15:19] <Hiena> Hindsight of the dayt: Never try to open a fuel barrel with an angle grinder. Or at least, check the remains.
[15:20] <fsphil> boom today?
[15:22] <costyn_> Hiena: haha
[15:22] <Laurenceb> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/wrist_watch.jpeg
[15:22] <costyn_> Laurenceb: sigh
[15:23] <Hiena> Almost. Somehow, i managed to build an accidental pulsejet. My ears still ringing from the whop-whop-whop noise and reeks from the gasoline.
[15:23] <fsphil> haha. no missing limbs or digits though?
[15:26] <costyn_> haha
[15:26] <costyn_> no video I assume? :)
[15:26] <Hiena> Nope. I learnt from my rocket experiences, when is the time to throw the tools and run. Still quite a sight the 200l barrel whooping, spinning and spitting flames and smoke.
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[15:30] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: !
[15:30] <eroomde> yo
[15:30] <Hiena> The filler cap was removed on the side and acted as exhaust nozzle, yet the hole on the top acted as intake. I'll give a piece of my mind to my father in law, because he said the barrel was empty and washed.
[15:35] <navrac_work> do you think he was trying to tell you something?
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[15:38] <staylo> Maybe a piece of your mind is exactly what he was after :)
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[15:49] <MLow> ok so the cap on the TXD line of an hx1 clipps the deviation?
[15:49] <MLow> the voltage coming in IS the deviation
[15:49] <MLow> ?
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[16:15] <MLow> :S
[16:15] <MLow> well i have it decoding on my pc reliably
[16:15] <MLow> that doesnt mean anyone else can
[16:15] <MLow> or that im doing it right
[16:15] <navrac_work> ping upu
[16:16] <navrac_work> ping upuwork
[16:17] <MLow> ping nigelvh_
[16:17] <MLow> halp
[16:20] <Lucasbuck> does anyone use http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[16:20] <Lucasbuck> or has used that
[16:21] <Lucasbuck> im having some issues talking to it, and was wondering if anything other than vcc/gnd + rx/tx need to be plugged in
[16:21] <Lucasbuck> plugged in = connected to arduino
[16:21] <Lucasbuck> or whatever computer at the other end
[16:22] <kokey> Laurenceb: yup, I've got one in use
[16:22] <kokey> was fairly easy to get going, just power and the rx and tx
[16:22] <kokey> though the first time I swapped my rx and tx around by accident
[16:22] <Lucasbuck> :)
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[16:24] <Upu> here now navrac
[16:24] <Upu> Lucasbuck which Arduino are you plugging it into ?
[16:26] <Lucasbuck> pro mini
[16:26] <kokey> 3.3v one?
[16:26] <Lucasbuck> yu
[16:26] <Lucasbuck> yup
[16:26] <Upu> ok
[16:26] <kokey> I got mine on a pro mini, but I think I use power directly from the battery to it
[16:27] <kokey> two AAs at the moment for testing
[16:27] <navrac_work> sorry trying to email this schematic to you by replying to the author on a message of yours on the mailing list but getting errors - can you pm me email address again - ta
[16:27] <Upu> ok
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[16:27] <Upu> do a new Arduino sketch as follows :
[16:27] <Upu> void setup() {}
[16:27] <Upu> void loop() {}
[16:27] <Lucasbuck> powering pro mini with ftdi atm
[16:27] <Upu> jsut do that
[16:27] <Lucasbuck> ok
[16:28] <Upu> then plug the GPS module to pins 0 and 1
[16:28] <kokey> hmmm, actually, that's a point, I think I am powering from the pro mini then
[16:28] <Upu> i.e GPS TX to Arduino RX and vice versa
[16:28] <kokey> since I have it working with the ftdi when battery is not connected
[16:28] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32F3Discovery
[16:28] <Laurenceb> might be interesting if anyone here has a discovery
[16:29] <Upu> then just open the COM port in a terminal program at 9600
[16:29] <Lucasbuck> ok
[16:29] <Lucasbuck> done
[16:29] <Upu> any output ?
[16:29] <Lucasbuck> nope
[16:30] <Upu> ok remove the Arduino
[16:30] <Upu> just plug it into the FTDI
[16:30] <Upu> same again RX to TX and vice versa
[16:30] <Upu> and the power
[16:30] <Lucasbuck> k
[16:30] <navrac_work> upu: ok found your address - emailed over
[16:31] <Upu> sorry navrac thanks
[16:32] <m0psi> ok, i've succumbed. I've bought an FT-817 :-)
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> yup data coming in
[16:33] <m0psi> although I did get the dongle from Anthony to work on the mac, still nice to know I can get a reiable signal
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> on the TX -> RX in
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> nice niec data
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> havent connected RX on fdti
[16:33] <Upu> ok so its working
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> looped it through a 3.3v convertor just incase :)
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> yeah
[16:33] <Lucasbuck> must be arduino being lame
[16:34] <Lucasbuck> thx :)
[16:34] <Upu> leave you to your diagnostics :)
[16:34] <Lucasbuck> cheers!
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[16:39] <Lucasbuck> bbiab
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[16:46] <craag> Hmm running the float through NOAA Hysplit gives a Denmark => North-East Germany destination.
[16:47] <mfa298> m0psi: well done on the purchase, they're nice little radios.
[16:47] <m0psi> y, got a decent price mfa298
[16:47] <m0psi> i think
[16:48] <m0psi> ?260
[16:48] <m0psi> 360
[16:48] <mfa298> I can recommend making up a cable to get the audio out the port on the back. means you can also hear the audio at the same time
[16:48] <m0psi> hmm
[16:48] <m0psi> got a url?
[16:48] <mfa298> that sounds pretty good - I think mine was over 400 with some accessories and most I've seen on ebay have been around 400.
[16:49] <m0psi> y, that includes a 1 year warranty, and delivery
[16:49] <mfa298> not to had, it's a couple of the pins on the ps/2 style connector
[16:49] <m0psi> oh, that is simple enough
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[16:50] <mfa298> I think that port has a couple of audio outs, audio in and ptt control on it. It's designed for digital modes - pinout should be in the manual
[16:50] Nick change: grumbleist -> Guest31470
[16:51] <m0psi> y, i'll take a look
[16:51] <m0psi> also, got a brand new rechargable battery in the deal
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[16:51] <mfa298> I've made up a couple of versions, one is just mini-din (ps/2) to 3.5 jack used for audio out only. the other goes to a small box with a switch for ptt and linein and line out cables for doing digital modes.
[16:52] <m0psi> hmm, did you feed the audio right into your pc/mac?
[16:52] <mfa298> not bad, I'm not sure how good my battery is these days, but I've got several SLA's to run things from when out, Or it gets plugged into the car.
[16:53] <mfa298> I plug it straight into the line in on a usb sound card (as my netbook only has a headphone socket)
[16:56] <mfa298> if you were going to a mic-in you might want a transformer or potential divider. similarly for line-in an isolation transformer might be advisable but I've not had a problem without even when transmitting.
[16:56] <m0psi> y, the mac has a line-in
[16:56] <m0psi> i use a mac
[16:56] <m0psi> what is line-in?
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[16:57] <Willdude123> Any sign of pico?
[16:58] <mfa298> in what way ?
[16:59] <mfa298> Willdude123: I don't think so since yesterday.
[16:59] <m0psi> what is it in terms of input requirement
[16:59] <m0psi> i can understand audio
[16:59] <m0psi> but what is line-in? is it low/high impedence?
[17:00] <mfa298> I think fairly high impedance and around 1v p-p
[17:00] <m0psi> ah
[17:00] <mfa298> it's a similar level to what you get from the back of the 817 or headphone jacks on most devices.
[17:01] <m0psi> so, hence the potential divider
[17:01] <m0psi> bring it down to 1v
[17:01] <mfa298> mic inputs tend to be much lower input level.
[17:02] <m0psi> less than 1v?
[17:02] <mfa298> if its a line in it should be ok, but if it's a mic in you might need the potential divider.
[17:03] <m0psi> so, the volume knob on the 817 will bring down the level?
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[17:03] <m0psi> or is it fixed on the back?
[17:03] <mfa298> I think the mic inputs are a few mV p-p (I'm less sure on that, most microphones I deal with have xlr plugs on the back)
[17:04] <m0psi> mV? gosh, I would have thought that would make them susceptibel to noice
[17:04] <m0psi> maybe they are balanced
[17:04] <mfa298> the port on the back is fixed (which is why I like it, I can then hear what's happening through the speaker or turn the volume right down if I don't want to hear it)
[17:04] <m0psi> right
[17:07] <mfa298> I don't think the mic inputs on laptops are balanced. but I think they're designed for the little electret condensor modules
[17:08] <m0psi> ah
[17:08] <m0psi> directly in?
[17:11] <craag> A lot of modern laptops/PCs have a Line In, and then a software switch that enables an extra amplifier so they can be used as a Mic In.
[17:11] <mfa298> I think that's what they do on laptops, it's not something I've really used, my microphones all have xlr connectors so plug into a proper balanced device (mixer or similar)
[17:13] <mfa298> probably something to have a play around with and see what works best once you've got the radio.
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[17:18] <navrac2> on mic ins the middle ring of the 3.5mm connector is 5v via a resistor - dont connect that
[17:18] <navrac2> the line in will generally take the headphone output of a rig if you keep the volume doen
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[17:26] <mfa298> navrac2: this started out as I'd suggested making up a cable to use one of the ports on the back of the 817 as it gives a fixed level audio that's suitable for a line in.
[17:28] Action: mfa298 -> food
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[17:48] <Upu> still broken costyn , I'll put a new on antenna on tomorrow
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[17:51] <Willdude123> I am confused about how uBlox data is used with RTTY on arduino..
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[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:54] <Upu> hey Lunar
[17:54] <x-f> hello
[17:54] <Upu> Can you help Willdude123
[17:54] <fsphil> yo
[17:54] <Upu> "I am confused about how uBlox data is used with RTTY on arduino.."
[17:54] <Upu> I have to afk sorry
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[17:56] <x-f> Willdude is also afk
[18:02] CanadaWest (~mpede@S0106000475794a67.vc.shawcable.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:02] <CanadaWest> Hey there.
[18:03] <CanadaWest> Is anyone using soundmodem to make their soundcard into a modem for radio communication?
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[18:06] <craag> CanadaWest: I have done for APRS, not with balloons though as I'm in the UK.
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[18:07] <CanadaWest> craag: Ok. Do you have a project page for that?
[18:08] <CanadaWest> I'm having trouble actually getting my soundcard to squak. :)
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD x-f
[18:09] <craag> Ah ok. Just to check, you're not trying this on the raspberry pi are you?
[18:10] <CanadaWest> No.
[18:11] <CanadaWest> Just my PC for now. Not going to buy hardware until I get proof of concept working
[18:11] <craag> Great, what distro are you and what steps have you done so far?
[18:11] <CanadaWest> Ubuntu 12.04 I think
[18:11] <CanadaWest> I have soundmodem installed, it's throwing PTT errors.
[18:12] <craag> Ah gotcha.
[18:12] <craag> Are you trying to use a serial PTT adaptor?
[18:12] <MLow> canon a560, about $30 dollars shipped for 7.1mp
[18:12] <craag> (I just use VOX)
[18:12] <MLow> chdk script, put AA ultimate lithiums in it
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[18:13] <CanadaWest> I want just VOX device on soundcard IO
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> I used PulseAudio on my ubuntu to get dl-fldigi to run properly
[18:13] <craag> Right, you need to check your /etc/ax25/soundmodem.conf
[18:13] <MLow> so im curious guys
[18:13] <craag> Take a look at mine here: https://github.com/thecraag/mobile-aprs/blob/master/ax25-configs/soundmodem.conf
[18:14] <CanadaWest> thanks
[18:14] <MLow> you all in the "other countries" cant use full RF and ham freq.s for airborn stuff
[18:14] <CanadaWest> Hmm. boss calling.
[18:14] <MLow> the trend seems to be toward low power UHF RTTY
[18:15] <MLow> whats the cost of building one of those transmitters?
[18:15] <craag> CanadaWest: Mainly the '<ptt file...' line. The others are specific to ALSA and my callsign.
[18:15] <CanadaWest> sorry guys, gotta go. sorry to start a conversation I couldn't finish... :( will be back, and thanks!
[18:15] <craag> CanadaWest: No worries!
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[18:18] <fsphil> craag: been meaning to ask you, what cpu% does soundmodem eat up on the rpi?
[18:21] <MLow> aprs soundcard decoding on an rpi?
[18:21] <MLow> hmmm
[18:21] <MLow> might try that
[18:21] <craag> fsphil: About 15% while receiving.
[18:21] <craag> With hard-float.
[18:21] <fsphil> raspbian?
[18:21] <fsphil> I tried it at the weekend but didn't get anywhere
[18:22] <craag> That was archlinux, but I imagine it's similar
[18:22] <fsphil> it was using almost no cpu time at all
[18:22] <craag> USB soundcard?
[18:22] <fsphil> yea
[18:22] <fsphil> which was blinking, so it was capturing audio
[18:23] <craag> I didn't manage to get much out of it, just a few packets over a period of days in the end.
[18:23] <craag> It's a bit hard to tune the audio level with no display, so I'm pretty sure that was why.
[18:23] <KT5TK-Pi> Did you use soundmodem-config?
[18:23] <KT5TK-Pi> Just installing
[18:23] <fsphil> I ssh'ed in and got soundmodem-config going over X
[18:24] <craag> fsphil: I should have done that...
[18:24] <craag> Haven't had much experience with x forwarding.
[18:24] <craag> I might give it another go now I have a proper antenna up for 2m.
[18:24] <fsphil> bit slow but it allowed me ot set the levels
[18:25] <fsphil> I'll try it again, generating some packets locally
[18:25] <fsphil> it was transmitting fine
[18:25] <craag> Cool!
[18:25] <fsphil> although there where no igates in range at the time
[18:25] <fsphil> there is now I think
[18:27] <craag> I tried transmitting using VOX on my handheld, but the RF induced a voltage in the audio cable and kept the PTT open! So just had it as an RX-only. I need to sort out one of the GPIOs as PTT.
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[18:29] <fsphil> I've had that happen a few times
[18:30] <DrLuke> http://www1.futureelectronics.com/doc/AUSTRIAMICROSYSTEMS/AS3935.pdf
[18:30] <DrLuke> that looks fantastically interesting
[18:30] <fsphil> ooh, a dedicated detector ic
[18:31] <m0psi> URGENT: FT-817 going for a song on ebay
[18:31] <fsphil> I still haven't got my detector working
[18:31] <m0psi> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321002797468?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[18:31] <m0psi> 4min left, ?300 !!
[18:31] <Laurenceb_> sup
[18:31] <DrLuke> sdr masterrace :P
[18:32] <fsphil> 322 you mean :p
[18:32] <m0psi> oh, alredy up
[18:32] <fsphil> that'll hit 400 I bet
[18:32] <m0psi> 40sec ago!
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: ive put my f3discovery code on github
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> but the st tlt corrected compass seems to suck
[18:32] <fsphil> just got mine powered up this second Laurenceb_
[18:33] <fsphil> going through the demos
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> its supposed to me a mouse
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> *be
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> but looks like they never finished the code
[18:33] <MiniMail> something new going on? no balloooons? :)
[18:34] <fsphil> a gyro mouse would have been a nice demo
[18:34] <fsphil> wonder why they stopped
[18:34] <fsphil> building the toolchain using that TNT project
[18:35] <fsphil> hmm.. no ebay snipers so far
[18:35] <m0psi> y
[18:36] <fsphil> nice, someone got a good deal there
[18:36] <m0psi> well, that makes me feel OK
[18:36] <fsphil> was it you? :)
[18:36] <m0psi> just got me one earlier today for 359, including new battery and delivery
[18:36] <m0psi> almost new condition
[18:36] <fsphil> ah, no that is a good price
[18:36] <m0psi> + 1 year warrenty
[18:36] <fsphil> esp. for good condition
[18:37] <m0psi> from waters & stanton
[18:37] <fsphil> I buy a fair bit of stuff from them
[18:37] <fsphil> they don't have stupid carriage charges for NI
[18:37] <m0psi> very good service for sure
[18:37] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[18:39] <mfa298> today seems to have been the day for good deals on 817's, I had a few in my watch list that all want for around 330.
[18:39] <m0psi> indeed, i was tracking that too
[18:39] <fsphil> I guess they're getting cheaper as they get older
[18:40] <m0psi> y, I have a IC-706II, which has 100W on HF
[18:40] <mfa298> I'd looked not that long ago and they still seemed to reach >400
[18:40] <m0psi> so, will keep that, and the 817 will be handy
[18:40] <fsphil> yes I wouldn't give up my 817 even though I've a more powerful rig
[18:40] <fsphil> it's great for doing digimodes on
[18:40] <m0psi> the portability aspect is quite key
[18:41] <mfa298> my 817 often goes in the car for things as it's not a bad rig, the TS-2000 tends to stay at home as it's more bulky to transport.
[18:41] <fsphil> well typical, the cross-compiling hit an error
[18:41] <daveake> fits in the dash in my car, which is a plus :)
[18:41] <fsphil> you could fit a car into the dash of your car daveake
[18:41] <daveake> lol
[18:41] <staylo> ..we heard you like driving, etc
[18:41] <fsphil> haha
[18:42] <fsphil> my clio is too puny for such things as ham radio
[18:42] <fsphil> just looks silly with an antenna on the roof
[18:42] <daveake> lolipop stick
[18:42] <m0psi> it will tip over in a gust
[18:43] <mfa298> I found a non slip mat works wonders, the 817 just sits on top of the dashboard with one of those.
[18:43] <fsphil> cool. a few people suggested those to me when I was asking about mounting the 817 on the dash
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[18:43] <fsphil> but I didn't think they would work
[18:43] <daveake> We used plenty of that stuff in the RV on shelves for the cameras etc
[18:44] <daveake> Brought it all back plus an extra roll
[18:44] <daveake> £3 for a ~5m roll
[18:44] <fsphil> I bet you got some of that bieber tape too
[18:44] <daveake> lol
[18:44] <daveake> nope
[18:44] <fsphil> hah
[18:44] <daveake> Just the pink
[18:44] <mfa298> I've gone a smallish one from maplin which is very sticky and a larger on from asda that's less sticky.
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[18:45] <daveake> and some white to stop the wind noise on the driver's side (door fit was poor)
[18:45] <daveake> Did mean I had to use another door tho!
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[18:48] <daveake> Did you see our mode of transport? :p https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/486971_10151108986187654_899442268_n.jpg
[18:48] <fsphil> zoiks!
[18:49] <number10> lol - that hiipy look quite suites you daveake
[18:49] <daveake> oh dear :)
[18:50] <fsphil> I agree
[18:50] <daveake> no room for a suite
[18:50] <fsphil> very brian may
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> XD daveake
[18:50] <daveake> less grey
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> where is that?
[18:50] <daveake> Route 66 museum in Victorville, CA
[18:51] <fsphil> we come in peace, with a rocket launcher mounted above the window
[18:51] <daveake> That's an early A/C ...
[18:52] <daveake> The type that evaporates water
[18:52] <fsphil> neat
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, cool
[18:52] <daveake> exactly
[18:53] Action: fsphil scribbles on his increasinly large TODO list
[18:54] Action: fsphil move "see a shuttle launch" to down below "invent time travel"
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:55] <daveake> lol
[18:55] <daveake> Done the former :)
[18:55] <m0psi> fsphil, hey i had the shuttle one too. never made it :-(
[18:55] <daveake> Hey that worked!
[18:56] Action: daveake Is about to test his time travel machine
[18:56] <m0psi> :-)
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> DeLorean?
[18:57] <fsphil> nissan micra
[18:57] <number10> watch lunar lander live on tv..
[18:57] <number10> not you btw Lunar_Lander
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> number10, xD where?
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:57] <number10> in the 60s
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, did you see felix baumgartner's jump?
[18:58] <daveake> There was a time travel film on the first plane back from the USA
[18:58] <daveake> Worryingly, considering the circumstance, was the title - "Safety Not Guaranteed"
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:58] <daveake> No LL
[19:03] <LazyLeopard> Films you don't want to see on a plane, number 43...
[19:04] <daveake> Or anywhere else, sadly
[19:04] <daveake> Waste of 86 minutes of my life
[19:04] <daveake> not that I had anything else to do
[19:04] <daveake> I did consider using the wifi to (possibly) be the highest person on IRC
[19:04] <fsphil> my first school trip, and the first time on a plane, the magazine displayed all along the top row of the newsagent was "Why Planes Crash". with a picture of a burning plane
[19:05] <daveake> lol
[19:05] <daveake> subtle
[19:05] <fsphil> I'm sure the person who put them out did that intentionally
[19:05] <fsphil> I always wanted to get a copy but I don't remember what magazine it was
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> I think the answer is probably generally 'intersecting other objects in ways that exceed structural margins'
[19:08] <Upu> lol daveake at that picture
[19:08] <daveake> That's usually the last part of a sequence though
[19:10] <daveake> I think my foil balloon still has enough gas in it for a flight
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[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, maybe your balloon also flies to sweden :)
[19:34] <number10> jcoxons PICO on amsat-uk news http://www.uk.amsat.org/?p=11163
[19:35] <Upu> nice
[19:36] putte (52b625a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.37.169) joined #highaltitude.
[19:36] <Upu> guess I can't delete that track for a few weeks then :)
[19:37] <number10> bit of problem if after any launches this week
[19:37] <Upu> can always be filtered off
[19:37] <number10> yes I think the link has the filter
[19:40] <number10> but everyone who tracked will need to run fldigi every day to make sure all the correct stations are on the map :)
[19:40] <MLow> ok so
[19:40] <MLow> anyone wanna help me?
[19:40] <MLow> moving on from tracker leads me to sensors
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[19:42] <number10> have a good go at it first and then ask a specific question if you need to MLow
[19:42] <Upu> ping navrac
[19:42] <MLow> well im just curious if anyone has recomendation on good sensors to use
[19:42] <mfa298> sounds like spacenear.us could do with an option to show an old track (based on flight id or name), don't know how easy to do that would be though.
[19:42] <MLow> temp/pressure/etc
[19:43] <KT5TK_QRL> BMP085 covers temperature and pressure
[19:43] <MLow> coolio
[19:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Available fom digikey
[19:44] <MLow> and it has few external parts right?
[19:44] <fsphil> just a few pullup resistors
[19:44] <fsphil> and ideally a filtering capacitor
[19:44] <MLow> mouser?
[19:44] <MLow> they like me more
[19:44] <MLow> ship faster/cheaper
[19:44] <KT5TK_QRL> No, sorry mouser doesn't have them
[19:44] <MLow> grrrr
[19:45] <KT5TK_QRL> One of the few parts I don't order from mouser
[19:46] <MLow> mouser is awesome
[19:46] <MLow> but they did mail me a golf club once
[19:46] <MLow> that was odd
[19:47] <MLow> if u want to wait 2 weeks theres always
[19:47] <MLow> http://www.sunsky-online.com/view/266593/GY-65+Atmospheric+Pressure+Module+Altimeter+BMP085+Module+with+the+Code.htm
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[19:48] <MLow> bmp085 work with 5v logic uC?
[19:48] <MLow> or not tolerant
[19:48] <nigelvh_> Afternoon MLow, did you get my messages last night about the deviation?
[19:49] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[19:49] <MLow> i did but i didnt quite understnad them
[19:49] <MLow> but thats just me im sure the instructions were accurate
[19:49] <nigelvh> Well, how can I help clarify?
[19:49] <MLow> well the volume isnt anywhere near the other packets
[19:49] <nigelvh> Higher or lower?
[19:49] <MLow> very low but my pc can decode it
[19:49] <MLow> lower
[19:49] <MLow> but im using a 1nf cap
[19:50] <nigelvh> Then your devation is too low.
[19:50] <nigelvh> It's not necessarily the cap. The cap will not set the deviation.
[19:50] <MLow> right
[19:50] <MLow> well my uC is 5v
[19:50] <MLow> its an uno rev3
[19:51] <MLow> hooked up to a breadboarded HX1
[19:51] <MLow> some say the breadboard may well be the issue
[19:51] <nigelvh> So you've got an uno, running 5v, straight into a cap, and then into the hx1?
[19:51] <MLow> yes
[19:51] <MLow> no voltage divider
[19:51] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'd fiddle the breadboard.
[19:51] <MLow> 1nf cap
[19:51] <MLow> 100nf is way too loud
[19:52] <nigelvh> Ok, that's somewhat telling.
[19:52] <MLow> its louder than other packets but sounds very ...distorted
[19:52] <MLow> sickly sounding
[19:52] <nigelvh> Your 1nF may be too small. The cap will limit the frequencies that can pass. It's a high pass filter.
[19:53] <MLow> as per kt5tk's recommendation i adjusted the sine wave scale using his awesome excel sheet
[19:53] <nigelvh> What may be happening is you're blocking a lot of the 1200 and 2200Hz tone with the cap, which brings the voltages down.
[19:54] <MLow> a multimeter doesnt read the voltage
[19:54] <MLow> its too fast or something
[19:54] <nigelvh> I would recommend going back to the 0.1uF (100nF) cap, and putting a resistor divider between the cap and the arduino to reduce the voltage. Adjust the divider till the volume sounds similar to that of other packet.s
[19:54] <MLow> i tried that last night
[19:54] <MLow> and got mixed results
[19:55] <MLow> since i didnt know what voltage im starting with
[19:55] <MLow> i should also warn you that when i first started toubleshooting this someone suggested i adjust the pots under the hx1 sticker
[19:55] <MLow> and so i fear i may have a mis-calibrated hx1
[19:55] <nigelvh> It doesn't particularly matter. If you're using a calculator, use a voltage of 1. Then the output will be a percent.
[19:55] <MLow> gotcha
[19:55] <MLow> i was figuring 5v
[19:56] <nigelvh> As for adjusting the HX1, it's possible something got messed up, but I'm going to guess you're probably ok. I've fiddled with mine a bit, and you can't go too wrong.
[19:57] <MLow> yeah it seems like the flat head one on top right was deviation or something
[19:57] <MLow> and the bottom right center freq
[19:58] <MLow> because i turned it 90* and got nothing on 144.390 and came in strong on 80
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[19:58] <MLow> so with stock sine wave and 100nf cap
[19:58] <MLow> its very loud
[19:58] <MLow> sounds like its clipping the microphone input or something
[19:58] <nigelvh> Yep, try various resistor dividers till it sounds like the others.
[19:59] <MLow> should i start with 0.5
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[19:59] <nigelvh> Or, even better, if you have a potentiometer, you can just turn the knob and find what works best.
[19:59] <MLow> 2 10k ohm
[19:59] <MLow> uh
[19:59] <MLow> i do but i think its a very high value one
[19:59] <nigelvh> 100K? 10K? 1M?
[20:01] <MLow> 9.5k
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[20:01] <nigelvh> That would be just fine.
[20:01] <MLow> yeah thats much lower than i thought
[20:01] <MLow> it came with a basic electronics kit from a couple years ago
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[20:01] <MLow> glad i keep things
[20:04] <nigelvh> Yeah, a 10k pot should work perfectly for this.
[20:04] <MLow> ok so the r2 is 979
[20:05] <nigelvh> That will depend on where the pot is turned right?
[20:05] <MLow> pot is r1
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[20:05] <MLow> so by the calculator im at 0.09%
[20:05] <nigelvh> Ah, I see what you're doing.
[20:06] <nigelvh> The pot has three legs, so you can actually use the pot as both resistors. Pin 1 would be ground, pin 3 would be the input, and pin 2 would be the divided output.
[20:07] <nigelvh> Does that make sense?
[20:08] <MLow> how would i calculate the divided voltage then?
[20:09] <nigelvh> I would use the pot to find the best sound, then you can take the pot out and measure the resistance from pin 1 to 2, and from pin 2 to 3 to find the values for r1 and r2.
[20:09] <nigelvh> Does that make sense?
[20:09] <MLow> gotcha
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[20:10] <MLow> it still sounds off
[20:11] <nigelvh> And you've adjusted from one end to the other?
[20:11] <MLow> in increments
[20:11] <nigelvh> With a 10K pot, you should be able to be able to adjust from full volume to no volume.
[20:11] <MLow> all the way one way is barely audible and the other end is too loud
[20:12] <nigelvh> K, then find the middle.
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[20:12] <MLow> im trying to match the audio as it sounds from other packets
[20:12] <nigelvh> Yep
[20:12] <nigelvh> Once you do, then you'll have the right values.
[20:14] <MLow> and if it still doesnt decode?
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[20:16] <nigelvh> Then there's a lot of other stuff to check. You said you fiddled the HX1 adjustments, are you sure you're tuned to the right frequency? If it's off, everything will sound harsh or odd. Once you find the right frequency, you'll want to adjust the deviation to the right level again.
[20:17] <nigelvh> Also, have you ever gotten packets to decode with this setup? Fiddling with the deviation and frequency could all be for naught if you're not putting out valid packets to begin with.
[20:18] <MLow> yes
[20:18] <MLow> 1nf
[20:20] <nigelvh> K, for a reference, try this tool.
[20:20] <nigelvh> http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/experiment/highpass/hpf.html
[20:20] <MLow> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12996303/hab%20pics/hx1_naked.jpg
[20:20] <nigelvh> It will help you see what the sine waves are doing through different capacitors.
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[20:20] <nigelvh> I set the R1 at 10K
[20:21] <MLow> that pic i sent was the hx1 right after i took the sticker off
[20:21] <MLow> stock from lemos
[20:21] <nigelvh> Then adjust the capacitor value to see how it drops off. You'll note that at 1nF you lose a LOT of the signal.
[20:22] <MLow> can i ask what setup you used to get it working?
[20:22] <MLow> resistor divider?
[20:23] <MLow> also these pots turn 360 and keep going around
[20:23] <nigelvh> Recall that I'm not using the arduino to generate the tones, but I have a 2V peak to peak signal through a 100nF capacitor, which produces good deviation.
[20:23] <MLow> should i worry about them poping out or what
[20:23] <MLow> so you uC logic going in was a different voltage then 5v arduino
[20:24] <nigelvh> No, generally you don't have to worry about the pots turning too far.
[20:24] <MLow> adjusting the bottom right one trying to get it back to normal
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[20:24] <MLow> it seems to get louder and quieter on 90* turns
[20:24] <nigelvh> I have a chip designed specifcally to generate tones. My microcontroller just tells it to generate either a high tone or a low tone.
[20:24] <MLow> matching the before pic, there are 4 combinations
[20:27] <MLow> i have it on what appears to be the loudest at 390
[20:28] <MLow> and so now i have it sounding about the same aduio level as the other packets
[20:29] <MLow> and i can decode the other packets but not this ones
[20:29] <nigelvh> Try running the radio, with no audio input (arduino off), and adjust the frequency via the S meter. Loudest doesn't necessarily mean that the frequency is right.
[20:29] <MLow> gotcha
[20:31] <MLow> when i do that its always full signal
[20:31] <MLow> turning the knobs
[20:32] <nigelvh> K, try moving the transmitter away from the radio, perhaps in a metal box, or put it under a bowl and cover the bowl in tin foil. In general, make the signal weaker so the meter can show you where the best is.
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[20:36] <MLow> how would i access it under a bowl
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: ping
[20:38] <nigelvh> MLow, tune the radio till it's best, and leave the transmitter alone, then you'll know where it is and what direction to move.
[20:38] <fsphil> pong Laurenceb_
[20:38] <nigelvh> Then adjust and repeat
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[20:41] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: ive made a magno+accel mouse demo
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> for the F3discovery
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> would be interested to see if it works on yours
[20:41] <fsphil> ah sweet. I'm still compiling gcc :)
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> crazy
[20:42] <fsphil> the TNT one didn't work, trying the summons one
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> odd
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> aiui its a little experimental
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> codesourceyr is avaliable as binary
[20:45] <fsphil> assuming my laptop doesn't melt first
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[20:46] <MrScienceMan> anyone tried to connect mixw with ui-view?
[20:47] <jonsowman> why mixw instead of agwpe?
[20:47] <nigelvh> I find mixw is more reliable about decoding packets than agwpe
[20:47] <jonsowman> fair enough
[20:47] <nigelvh> Picks up all sorts of packets agwpe won't touch.
[20:47] <jonsowman> I shall leave this APRS stuff to you americans
[20:48] <MrScienceMan> mixw seems pretty good to me
[20:48] <MrScienceMan> havent tried agwpe
[20:48] <MrScienceMan> but, i get the address part of aprs sentances scambled
[20:49] <MrScienceMan> rest of the sentance is ok
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[20:56] <MLow> well i fgiddled
[20:56] <MLow> dont think i accomplished anything
[20:57] <nigelvh> Setting frequency is hard without a proper meter. Are there any friends nearby with some test gear?
[20:57] <MLow> i tried contacting a local hackerspace but they have no space
[20:57] <MLow> they are moving and dont know when they will find a space
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[21:00] <MLow> ive been smoking more than usual lately... :(
[21:00] <nigelvh> I'd send an email to your local radio club. Someone there is bound to have some gear and be willing to help you.
[21:01] <MLow> could i send u an audio file and would that help?
[21:01] <MLow> it sounds pretty muche exactly like the local packets
[21:02] Nick change: MrScienceMan -> RG-lz1dev
[21:02] <MLow> i mean i thank you for all your help
[21:02] <MLow> you have gone way beyond what i would expect for how little i contribute lol
[21:03] <MLow> it must seem foolish for me to try to do this
[21:03] <MLow> with how little tools and experience i hate
[21:03] <MLow> have*
[21:03] <MLow> i hate this radio
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[21:04] <MLow> the waterfall spectrum of my packet looks about the same as others show
[21:07] <MLow> when i hook the hx1 up to my roof antenna with some split coax and a pl connector on the end
[21:07] <MLow> it decodes over aprs.fi
[21:07] <MLow> someone picks it up 10 miles away
[21:07] <nigelvh> Yeah, It may just be your local recieve setup.
[21:08] <MLow> :S
[21:09] <MLow> ive tried several different radios
[21:09] <MLow> HT and my 2m rig
[21:09] <MLow> plugged with a 3.5mm cable into laptop with agepw
[21:09] <MLow> and i can decode other local trafiic
[21:09] <MLow> so confused
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[21:11] <chris___> there's nothing in the air at the moment to track is there?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=v5aMT9MBfZI&NR=1
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[21:13] <mclane> Hi, someone here with experience concerning the CUSF landing predictor?
[21:14] <MLow> yeah 10 mi away
[21:14] <MLow> wow
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[21:14] <nigelvh> MLow, I haven't found agwpe to be the most reliable decoding software.
[21:14] <MLow> is there an alternative more reliable?
[21:15] <nigelvh> I'd try a trial of mixw
[21:15] <nigelvh> I've had situations where mixw would decode 100% and agwpe MIGHT get one of every 5.
[21:16] <MLow> are there any limitations
[21:16] <MLow> if i want to say, launch my balloon on the trial
[21:16] <nigelvh> I don't recall offhand what the limitations are.
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[21:16] <nigelvh> Should be able to decode fine though.
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[21:20] <MLow> not sure i understand mixw
[21:21] <MLow> pretty complicated ui
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[21:23] <MLow> wait
[21:23] <MLow> i think i have it
[21:23] <MLow> mode is packet
[21:24] <MLow> mode settings > modem VHF 1200 baud standard
[21:24] <RG-lz1dev> that should get you aprs packets decoded
[21:24] <RG-lz1dev> :)
[21:24] <MLow> hm
[21:24] <MLow> does this have a way to export these packets
[21:25] <MLow> to software
[21:25] <RG-lz1dev> there is loggin options
[21:25] <RG-lz1dev> option*
[21:25] <MLow> does it lock the file?
[21:25] <RG-lz1dev> i dont think so
[21:26] <MLow> it only decodes my packet periodically though
[21:26] <MLow> hm
[21:27] <MLow> $70 bucks
[21:27] <MLow> whoa
[21:27] <nigelvh> As a quick question, do you have a GPS connected via a software serial port?
[21:27] <MLow> no
[21:28] <MLow> hard ware serial, and right now no gps to see if it was interference problem
[21:28] <nigelvh> K, I've found that can cause issues where the GPS on software serial will bog down the processor a bit.
[21:28] <MLow> its a pretty slow 1hz
[21:28] <MLow> :)
[21:29] <nigelvh> No, the serial happens at 4800baud
[21:29] <nigelvh> It only updates at 1hz
[21:29] <eroomde> what's up habbenpeepers
[21:29] <nigelvh> during the time it's sending data, it can bog down the proc.
[21:29] <MLow> ah
[21:29] <MLow> do you recommend mixw?
[21:30] <MLow> it seems nice but i am nto able to decode my packets with it using the quarter wave antenna only the roof antenna
[21:30] <nigelvh> It has worked well for me.
[21:31] <MLow> using my HT it doesnt decode at all
[21:31] <MLow> though i can hear packets
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[21:50] <meatmanek> wow, many more people here than I expected.
[21:50] <fsphil> welcome :)
[21:51] <meatmanek> thx
[21:51] <Lucasbuck> fighting with gps :)
[21:52] <fsphil> can't you two get along?
[21:52] <fsphil> remember, it knows where you live
[21:53] <Lucasbuck> i connect it to ftdi raw
[21:53] <Lucasbuck> and i get wonder gps data
[21:53] <Lucasbuck> wonderful*
[21:53] <fsphil> oh sweet, my cross compiler built
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> via the arduino (tripple checked pins)
[21:54] <fsphil> so the gps is working
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> nothing
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> yup
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> im plkaying with the test code here
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[21:54] <Lucasbuck> the software serial example
[21:55] <fsphil> I'd avoid software serial if you can, it can often cause problems
[21:56] <fsphil> try with a really simple program, one that blinks the LED if it receives any characters on the serial port
[21:57] <Lucasbuck> ive got the serial terminal open, upu suggested a simple
[21:57] <Lucasbuck> void setup {}
[21:57] <Lucasbuck> void loop {}
[21:57] <Lucasbuck> to see if anythings was even coming in
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> http://www.trumpgolfscotland.com/
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> pmsl
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> the web designer needs to be FIRED
[21:59] <Lucasbuck> and i get gps data with those two empty things :)
[21:59] <Lucasbuck> so much lovely data
[21:59] <Lucasbuck> it makes me want to cry
[21:59] <fsphil> if you're using software serial in that other example, you need to change how the gps is connected
[22:00] <fsphil> software serial will not be running on the same pins as the hardware serial
[22:00] <Lucasbuck> yeah
[22:00] <fsphil> well it could, but that way is madness
[22:00] <Lucasbuck> yup
[22:00] <Lucasbuck> ive done a fair bit of arduino stuff before
[22:00] <Lucasbuck> just never gps
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[22:01] <Lucasbuck> mmm
[22:01] <Lucasbuck> GPGGA,220002.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*64
[22:01] <Lucasbuck> $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*3
[22:01] <Lucasbuck> tasty
[22:01] <fsphil> ah
[22:02] <Lucasbuck> thats empty setup and loop
[22:03] <Lucasbuck> for hardware serial i have to have an external board outside of the arduino?
[22:03] <Lucasbuck> UM232 Serial UART Development Module or equivalent. that?
[22:03] <fsphil> the arduino hardware serial is wired to the usb<>serial chip
[22:03] <fsphil> you can't use it to talk with the computer and the gps at the same time
[22:05] <Lucasbuck> logical
[22:05] <Lucasbuck> im sure ive got an arduino mega somewhere
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[22:05] <Lucasbuck> that has 2 hardware serial pins
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[22:06] Nick change: andrew_apex__ -> andrew_apex
[22:07] <fsphil> software serial should work too, as long as you're not doing anything else with interrupts
[22:08] <fsphil> Laurenceb_: I've got a compiler at least
[22:08] <fsphil> build the stlink software too
[22:10] <fsphil> built*
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> cool
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> from my fork?
[22:10] <Lucasbuck> yeah, got software serial working
[22:10] <Lucasbuck> its enough to start playing with gps data
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> does it detect the board?
[22:11] <Lucasbuck> thanks fsphil, you made me re-read it all, better now :)
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> ./st-util
[22:12] <fsphil> yes, but "unknown chip id!"
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> hmm odd
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> sounds like the old version of stlink
[22:12] <fsphil> that stopped the demo running
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah it will
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> but it hasnt detected what the mcu is
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> it just put it into halt
[22:13] <fsphil> I might have cloned the wrong stlink
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah that would explain it
[22:14] <fsphil> got it from git://github.com/texane/stlink.git
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> you need my fork
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> Laurenceb on github
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A&feature=youtube_gdata_player do not want
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[22:18] <fsphil> yea that's done it Laurenceb_, thanks
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[22:18] <Laurenceb_> gdbserver on :4242
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> i should have added .gdbinit to my demos
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> doh
[22:22] <eroomde> Italy is basically a joke
[22:22] <eroomde> or at least, striving to be one
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> my understanding was they were actually prosecuted for categorically saying it was ok
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> but thats not how its being reported
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> i.e. not for "failing to give a warning"
[22:29] <fsphil> Laurenceb_: how do you flash your mouse demo
[22:29] <BrainDamage> actually they expressively said it wasn't for failing to predict it, but because their job was assessing risks and advice population, and translating literally: "providing inexact informations, incomplete, and self contraditory"
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> fsphil:
[22:30] <BrainDamage> those are the words from the public prosecutor
[22:30] <BrainDamage> and it's what the more sane news reported
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> target extended-remote :4242
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> file main.elf
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> load main.elf
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> kill
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> hot reset on board
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> *hit
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> run
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: that was my understanding
[22:36] <fsphil> (gdb) run
[22:36] <fsphil> Starting program: /home/phil/src/f4/STM32F3Discovery/main.elf
[22:36] <fsphil> Note: automatically using hardware breakpoints for read-only addresses.
[22:36] <fsphil> Warning:
[22:36] <fsphil> Cannot insert hardware breakpoint -1.
[22:36] <fsphil> Could not insert hardware breakpoints:
[22:36] <fsphil> You may have requested too many hardware breakpoints/watchpoints.
[22:36] <fsphil> whoops, that was meant for pastebin
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> i havent actually tested that
[22:36] <fsphil> I'm outta by depth here :)
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> i think its not loading the supported number of breakpoints
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> wait are you using regular gdb?
[22:37] <fsphil> yessss?
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> you need arm-none-eabi-gdb
[22:38] <fsphil> that would explain a lot
[22:39] <fsphil> that's better
[22:40] <fsphil> no mouse action but the demo is running
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> did you try the other usb port?
[22:41] <fsphil> yea
[22:42] <fsphil> it's coming up as a mouse in syslog
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> you need to click user button
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> until you get magno thingy
[22:42] <fsphil> I have
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> hmm odd
[22:42] <fsphil> the leds are lightnig up fine when I move it
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> showing compass heading?
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> or do they light when you move it ?
[22:43] <fsphil> oh hello
[22:43] <fsphil> I was in gyro demo
[22:43] <fsphil> the compass demo is moving the mouse
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[22:45] <Laurenceb_> it should be possible to add click using the user button
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> think its the third byte of the usb data or something
[22:45] <zyp> hmm
[22:46] <zyp> maybe I'll poke around a bit with the usb analyzer
[22:46] <fsphil> it's only moving the pointer to the right though, not massivly useful ;)
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah that code is goofy
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> stock ST code
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[22:46] <Laurenceb_> they cant do 3D geometry
[22:46] <fsphil> neat though.. would be nice to hack it so to tilting the board moves the mouse on the screen
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> i dont have mine setup atm
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> it was being goofy earlier
[22:47] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/ZXtkP.png
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should delete the ST code and start again
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> with openpilot code
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> oh wait
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> i fail
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> HID_Buffer[1] += (Delta_Heading-10)/CURSOR_STEP;
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> needs to be -
[22:50] <zyp> Laurenceb_, did you see my pic?
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> is that connected with stock code?
[22:51] <zyp> so anyway, does the shipped demo send any data?
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> code is missing
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> ive implimented it
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> ... badly it appears
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> actually no HID_Buffer[1] -= (Delta_Heading+10)/CURSOR_STEP; needs changing
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> and again for Delta_Pitch
[22:54] <zyp> it's a bit fun that iProduct is «STM32 Joystick», and then it enumerates as a mouse :p
[22:54] <zyp> smells like some copy pasting going on there
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> id never sink to that technique
[22:55] <zyp> :D
[22:55] <fsphil> haha
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/QIYQR.jpg
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[23:05] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> githubbed a "fixed" version
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[23:08] Action: SpeedEvil has been sorta wondering about a tiiiiiny stick-on track point
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> USB
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[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> how can I add libraries to arduino on linux?
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> I always get the thing about no permission to write to the folder
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> (sorry if that is double but when I was kicked it said something about a ping timeout=
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mavnz9yYZ41qfm239o1_500.jpg
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> it's not double
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> thats kind of awesome
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nature.com/news/the-whale-that-talked-1.11635
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nature.com/news/helium-reveals-gibbon-s-soprano-skill-1.11257 ' Takeshi Nishimura at Kyoto University's Primate Research Institute in Inuyama and his colleagues used an unlikely setting to investigate the vocalizations the creatures use to do so  they put a white-handed gibbon (Hylobates lar) in a large box containing 50% helium gas.
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> as you do
[23:24] <Lucasbuck> Lunar_Lander : check the folder permission on your arduino director
[23:24] <Lucasbuck> make sure youre user you are currently has perms to write
[23:24] <Lucasbuck> then cp or mv any libraries you want to the arduino/libraries folder
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> you must then close and restart all running arduino instances
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> else it wont detect the new lib :)
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> direct 6 = directory :)
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> director, ... *sigh* tired, cant type or think
[23:26] <Lucasbuck> on that note, goodluck and nn everyone
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> ask ubuntu also says that nautilus launched as root could do it but it could also kill the system
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> good night Lucasbuck and thanks!
[23:26] <Lucasbuck> np
[23:26] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
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[00:00] --- Tue Oct 23 2012