highaltitude.log.20121016

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[02:20] <heathkid> probably very old news by now... but... http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/10/first-video-from-space-jump-daredevils-body-camera/
[02:21] <heathkid> I can't download or save the video. Did anyone get the original YouTube video or can you save this one for me?
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[03:04] <heathkid> did everyone fall asleep in here?
[03:15] <MLow> i am in the process of writting some software in .net that hooks up to agwpe and displays a map with the packets on it, uses GMap.net and AGWPE hook, looking for a way to integrate better features and make it a all in one package for tracking aprs hab stuff
[03:16] <Darkside> windows only though
[03:16] <MLow> correct
[03:17] <MLow> sorry
[03:17] <MLow> heathkid: didnt his glove rip or something
[03:17] <Darkside> we don't bother tracking our aprs payloads in car
[03:17] <MLow> Darkside: you dont remember me, but i remember you :)
[03:17] <Darkside> we use the RTTY telemetry as primary, as we can get more updates out of it
[03:18] <Darkside> >_>
[03:18] <MLow> weve discussed the ad nausium
[03:18] <MLow> this*
[03:18] <Darkside> heh
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[03:22] <MLow> doing my first launch has to go off without a hitch or the likely hood of me attempting more drops significatly
[03:25] <MLow> so how have your launches been going Darkside i havent checked in, its been months
[03:25] <Darkside> all good, did a short systems check a few weeks ago
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[03:25] <Darkside> as we hadn't launched in a few months
[03:25] <MLow> oh no
[03:26] <MLow> thats no fun
[03:29] <MLow> moving on to more interesting projects? or?
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[03:29] <Darkside> nah, just had people busy for a bit
[03:29] <Darkside> we've got some more launches coming up soon
[03:29] <MLow> fun
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[03:30] <heathkid> sorry but are *all* the HAB folks in the UK?
[03:30] <MLow> i was thinking of doing a fund raise at my work, since a bit of my coworkers are interested in it, pool cash to do some science and more cars = better chance of finding the box in texas brush :D
[03:30] <Darkside> heathkid: i'm not
[03:31] <MLow> Darkside: is aussie, I'm Texan
[03:31] <heathkid> Darkside: I'm in Indiana... where are you?
[03:31] <heathkid> ah
[03:31] <Darkside> VK5 here
[03:31] <heathkid> VK5?
[03:31] <MLow> a 5 over here
[03:31] <Darkside> south australia
[03:31] <MLow> but our region numbers are just the number bit
[03:31] <heathkid> most of my friends live in Perth
[03:31] <Darkside> VK6
[03:32] <heathkid> I've been a KA8 (yes... Novice callsign) since I was 12
[03:32] <heathkid> today is my birthday
[03:32] <heathkid> it's been a VERY long time ago... or so it seems
[03:32] <MLow> i could have taken my gran dads callsign
[03:32] <heathkid> 33 years since I got my Novice ticket
[03:33] <MLow> he has a very short one, but i felt it was wrong to take it
[03:33] <heathkid> now a General
[03:33] <heathkid> working on Extra
[03:33] <Darkside> mm, full call here
[03:33] <MLow> they dont hand novice out anymore
[03:33] <Darkside> VK5QI
[03:33] <heathkid> I know
[03:33] <MLow> his was like w5a
[03:33] <MLow> lol
[03:33] <heathkid> but I like my callsign and have always kept it
[03:33] <Darkside> wow
[03:34] Action: heathkid is KA8MAV
[03:34] <MLow> kf5kwe
[03:34] <MLow> mouthfull :(
[03:34] <heathkid> MLow: no kidding
[03:34] <Darkside> ...- -.- ..... --.- ..
[03:34] <heathkid> ouch
[03:35] <MLow> hehe Darkside
[03:35] <Darkside> thats the only morse code i know >_>
[03:35] <MLow> i think its supposed to be sounds though
[03:35] <Darkside> mm
[03:35] <MLow> beep beep beep beeeeep beeeep beep beeeep ............
[03:36] <Darkside> i get the QI vs QY problem
[03:36] <MLow> i never could mentally visualize cq
[03:37] <Darkside> -.-. --.-
[03:37] <MLow> now your just show-boating
[03:38] <MLow> the longer i take to put my balloon up the more pase' it seems to do ballooning
[03:38] <MLow> and i feel the need to add more science to the payload as i prolong it
[03:38] <MLow> making it take longer to test
[03:38] <MLow> eventually im just going to send a phone up and be like ooohh ahhhh, so many sensors
[03:39] <MLow> (because in 5 years they will have more sensors that my payload)
[03:39] <MLow> and be half the size and weight
[03:39] <heathkid> yea... a Samsung Galaxy S III has more sensors and capabilities that you'd need
[03:40] <MLow> yeah it has a mpu6050
[03:40] <MLow> i was like....whaaaat
[03:40] <MLow> *looks down at his breakout that cost $40)
[03:40] <heathkid> but I'm not considering mine "payload" just yet... :)
[03:41] <MLow> well, mine is a bit big on its breadboard right now
[03:41] <heathkid> ...more like an interface
[03:41] <MLow> i cant decide yet on some sensors
[03:41] <MLow> and then i add another
[03:41] <heathkid> besides pretty pictures.... I have to ask.... "Why?"
[03:41] <MLow> before i can make the pcb i need to finish the breadboard, etc
[03:42] <MLow> heathkid: why @ me?
[03:42] <heathkid> HAB can only go so high...
[03:42] <MLow> well for me the hab is just a test bed, to get my payload that high
[03:42] <heathkid> no... everyone here MLow
[03:42] <heathkid> I can test that in the lab at work
[03:43] <MLow> there is ofc the experience
[03:43] <heathkid> ofc?
[03:43] <MLow> i mean to learn as you go, experiment, and when you pull it off it's a rush
[03:43] <MLow> ofcourse
[03:43] <heathkid> I want to go much higher
[03:44] <MLow> well you need a rocket
[03:44] <MLow> wrong channel :)
[03:44] <heathkid> what's the right channel?
[03:44] <heathkid> don't point me to cube sat
[03:44] <MLow> somewhere in roswill section
[03:44] <heathkid> ballast is free
[03:44] <heathkid> people keep forgetting that
[03:44] <MLow> seriousness though, this would be the right one, just wrong lift mechanism
[03:44] <heathkid> just a long list
[03:45] <heathkid> I was really thinking HAB launch platform
[03:45] <MLow> you do a hab, with a rocket on it :O
[03:45] <heathkid> I know it's been tried before...
[03:45] <MLow> heres what you do
[03:46] <MLow> make a really tiny, compact, solid rocket aircraft
[03:46] <MLow> lift it by balloon to 120k ft
[03:46] <MLow> aim it at the moon
[03:46] <heathkid> MLow: is there a group in the US that is working on that?
[03:46] <MLow> ???
[03:46] <MLow> profit
[03:46] <heathkid> hobby
[03:47] <MLow> if they were would we know about it?
[03:47] <heathkid> want to start one?
[03:47] <heathkid> the moon is still in our gravity well
[03:47] <MLow> UAV above 400ft agl is against FAA regs :(
[03:47] <heathkid> I'm thinking WAY outside that
[03:48] <heathkid> so
[03:48] <MLow> technically were all lifting weather balloons up
[03:48] <MLow> i mean, all they do is take the sky's temp anyways
[03:48] <heathkid> it's not a UAV until it is beyond FAA
[03:48] <MLow> isnt international space like...100mi
[03:49] <heathkid> depends who you ask
[03:49] <MLow> i mean in all honesty
[03:50] <MLow> i think if you launched in the middle of nowhere....who is going to know
[03:50] <MLow> but when you post a youtube video..
[03:50] <heathkid> uh... a lot of people
[03:50] <heathkid> I'm 8 miles southwest of the middle of nowhere...
[03:51] <heathkid> with an airport within 5 miles
[03:51] <heathkid> though they'd never notice
[03:51] <heathkid> didn't notice the twin engine Cesna buzzing our lake at less than 50 ft.1!!!
[03:51] <MLow> well i think radar can pick up our boxes, they probably look like birds but i think those hurt airplanes too
[03:51] <heathkid> and didn't care
[03:52] <heathkid> so file with the FAA
[03:52] <heathkid> I need a check list
[03:52] <heathkid> for the US... not UK
[03:53] <heathkid> I want to put a satellite in LEO from a HAB launch within the next two years
[03:53] <MLow> its something like, call FAA regional office, be put on hold, get someone who doesnt know wtf a NOTAM is, ask for the right department, get requisition fom for approval of NOTAM, wait 5-6 weeks for paper work to get processed and rejected for mispelling of your name
[03:54] <MLow> i just had a douglas adams trip there for a second
[03:54] <MLow> calls the Quake guys
[03:54] <heathkid> I think I'd go much higer up and let it trickle down to the FAA
[03:54] <MLow> they did a rocket to LEO
[03:54] <heathkid> but I haven't
[03:55] <heathkid> and where are the specs, data, requirements, design info, etc.?
[03:55] <MLow> oh wait, nvm they only did 121k ft
[03:55] <MLow> wow...lame
[03:55] <MLow> i thought all this time they got LEO
[03:55] <heathkid> oh
[03:56] <MLow> well crap we can do what they did for 20x less the investment haha
[03:56] <MLow> they only sent a couple cameras up
[03:56] <heathkid> lol
[03:56] <heathkid> SFE and Adafruit to the rescue!
[03:56] <MLow> very impressive rocket though
[03:57] <heathkid> it's not rocket science
[03:57] <MLow> even though it is
[03:57] <heathkid> oh wait... yes it is...
[03:57] <heathkid> lol
[03:57] <MLow> but like i said, this stuff is starting to get pase'
[03:57] <heathkid> we can do it
[03:57] <heathkid> LEO
[03:57] <heathkid> hobbiest LEO
[03:57] <heathkid> why not?
[03:58] <MLow> skycube did on piggyback
[03:58] <MLow> i mean the technology obviously works out there
[03:58] <MLow> the lift...
[03:58] <heathkid> it does...
[03:58] <MLow> thats the trick
[03:58] <heathkid> waiting list is long for ballast... but it's free
[03:59] <MLow> ballast?
[03:59] <heathkid> or come up with a great scientific idea....
[03:59] <heathkid> yea
[03:59] <heathkid> ballast
[03:59] <heathkid> every rocket launch has some
[03:59] <MLow> ricj
[03:59] <MLow> right*
[03:59] <MLow> well thats not very fun though
[04:00] <CanadaWest> talking about launching UAVs?
[04:00] <heathkid> no... it's our project is considered space junk
[04:00] <MLow> "hey i piggy backed on a commercial/government/highly paid ventures rocket as dumb weight"
[04:00] <CanadaWest> just cathing up on log...
[04:00] <heathkid> CanadaWest: a bit higher than air...
[04:00] <heathkid> USV?
[04:00] <heathkid> UOV?
[04:01] <CanadaWest> Unmanned Aerial Vehicles...
[04:01] <CanadaWest> aka Drones.
[04:01] <heathkid> oh... satellite
[04:01] <heathkid> that does it
[04:01] <CanadaWest> well, sattelites don't navigate themselves really, only slight course corrections.
[04:01] <heathkid> I don't consider satellites UAVs
[04:01] <CanadaWest> right
[04:01] <CanadaWest> they aren't
[04:02] <MLow> my future goal has always kinda been a high altitude glider
[04:02] <CanadaWest> I'm making one!
[04:02] <CanadaWest> Legal here.
[04:02] <heathkid> MLow: it won't glide when there is no air...
[04:02] <CanadaWest> There's still air at 20km. it's just 1/17th as thin
[04:03] <MLow> it cant really course correct that well though
[04:03] <CanadaWest> it CAN still glide, just needs the right surface area, etc..
[04:03] <MLow> it's not like i would expect anyone to knock on my door
[04:03] <MLow> i just cant talk about it or post pictures or anything
[04:03] <heathkid> surface area? are you serious? you realize how large the wing span would be?
[04:03] <heathkid> at 1/17th?
[04:04] <MLow> NOTAM, weather ballon at X,Y launching 540am CST
[04:04] <MLow> with the decrease in weight doesnt the surface area needed also?
[04:05] <CanadaWest> Therre's not that much decrease in gravity there.
[04:05] <MLow> i mean the fact its tiny
[04:05] <MLow> not 100lb
[04:05] <CanadaWest> And really, to glide, you're ok even with the thin atmosphere. just don't expect much LIFT
[04:05] <MLow> just how a scale plane is more agile
[04:06] <MLow> than the full scale
[04:06] <CanadaWest> Uh, no.. mine will be under 10 lbs hoping for 5 or 6 in the end.
[04:06] <MLow> well thats what i mean
[04:06] <CanadaWest> my first one will be a really small glider.. 2lbs if that.
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[04:07] <MLow> with less weight you need less surface area to produce lift
[04:07] <MLow> or to manuever
[04:07] <CanadaWest> Some students at a local University did some glide equations and noted a glider released from 40kms could glide 140kms or so.
[04:08] <MLow> over here its 400ft agl or illegal
[04:08] <MLow> :(
[04:08] <CanadaWest> yeah. Light-weight is key, but also just to get it up there by balloon it has to be light.
[04:08] <CanadaWest> agl?
[04:08] <MLow> well i mean to point out that even if there is less air, there is still enough to manuever around
[04:08] <MLow> above ground level
[04:09] <CanadaWest> Here in Canada you can go higher if you contact the authorities. Tell them you're doing a drone test. You're allowed.
[04:09] <MLow> all you have to do over here
[04:09] <CanadaWest> and for us, it's not the height, but 'within visual range' you need to keep within before seeking a permit.
[04:10] <MLow> is incorporate, and gross more than a states income, then you can do whatever you want :)
[04:10] <heathkid> MLow: are you serious about the 400ft.?
[04:10] <MLow> yes
[04:10] <heathkid> link?
[04:10] <Darkside> this is the standard RC aircraft altitude
[04:11] <CanadaWest> I heard about a 400ft limit too somewhere. Not sure which jurisdiction.
[04:11] <heathkid> MLow: I've got a lot of contacts with the RCMP if we need to do something "fun"
[04:11] <MLow> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1ACFC3F689769A56862569E70077C9CC?OpenDocument&Highlight=91
[04:11] <heathkid> 1981?
[04:13] <CanadaWest> Is that a threat?
[04:13] <heathkid> okay... I'll take my chances
[04:14] <MLow> lol yeah its silly
[04:14] <MLow> the only FAA regulation converning "civilian UAVs"
[04:14] <MLow> is from 1981
[04:14] <CanadaWest> http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/uav-faqs-for-canada
[04:14] <heathkid> that's model aircraft
[04:14] <heathkid> not the same thing
[04:14] <heathkid> not at all
[04:17] <CanadaWest> I'm also looking into these guys. http://www.ccuvs.com/about_ccuvs/
[04:17] <CanadaWest> I'm not gonna launch anything autonomously, out of sight without permission.
[04:18] <CanadaWest> Gonna test the crap out of things before I launch a glider to altitude!
[04:19] <MLow> on that note i think im going to sleep
[04:19] <MLow> i have the day off tomorrow
[04:19] <MLow> many things to ponder and work on
[04:20] <MLow> o/ night heathkid
[04:20] <MLow> and company :)
[04:20] <CanadaWest> ciao!
[04:21] <CanadaWest> gotta reboot too.
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[04:43] <x-f> good morning
[04:46] <x-f> when i close dl-fldigi, for a brief moment it says that it's uploading the queued decodes or something - if i'm disconnected from the internets at that moment, those decodes will be lost, or they will upload next time i launch dl-fldigi?
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[06:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "Re: [UKHAS] Remote tracking of payloads"
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[08:00] <jcoxon> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/october2012/balloon_and_rocket_radio_hams.htm
[08:00] <jcoxon> 18mins
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[08:09] <fsphil> hah, tube camera. I'm amazed that worked
[08:09] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:09] <fsphil> mornig :)
[08:09] <jcoxon> we get a mention
[08:09] <jcoxon> at 18mins
[08:12] <x-f> morning!
[08:13] <fsphil> nearly there
[08:16] <fsphil> chase plane :)
[08:18] <jcoxon> they do the craze stuff
[08:18] Action: jcoxon hopes the ground winds are light this weekend
[08:18] <fsphil> me too
[08:18] Action: jcoxon is going to launch something
[08:18] <jcoxon> though not probably Peg8
[08:18] <jcoxon> needs more testing
[08:25] <fsphil> crickets and pie
[08:25] <fsphil> yea, it's getting crazy
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[08:33] <fsphil> that was pretty good
[08:33] <jcoxon> yeah interesting talk
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[08:54] <jcoxon> yay my badge radio works
[08:54] <fsphil> i keep forgetting to order the bits for that. gotta do that right now
[08:55] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[08:58] <jcoxon> now here is the big question
[08:58] <jcoxon> what do we do about power supply
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[09:13] <fsphil> I lipo with a heater :)
[09:13] <fsphil> A*
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[09:15] <jcoxon> eek
[09:16] <fsphil> oh, is it a 4d-systems camera you have?
[09:16] <jcoxon> no 328
[09:16] <fsphil> the thin pin-hole one?
[09:17] <jcoxon> its the one you have
[09:17] <jcoxon> c328
[09:17] <fsphil> I've used two, both based on the c328 -- the old one had a pinhole lens, the new ones have a glass lens
[09:18] <jcoxon> pinhole
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[09:19] <fsphil> ah. I'm getting some lenses for the 4D systems version with IR block filters
[09:20] <fsphil> I don't remember if the pinhole one had the colour problem
[09:27] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/kquQD.jpg
[09:27] <MrScienceMan> no/fq 4
[09:27] <fsphil> actually looks like the C328 has been discontinued
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[10:38] <x-f> Upu, you around?
[10:45] <Upu> hey x-f here
[10:45] <x-f> hi
[10:45] <x-f> i'd like to buy NTX2 from your store and its description says to ask about it first
[10:45] <Upu> it does indeed and thanks for actually reading :)
[10:55] <eroomde> x-f: by now you are presumably glad to have askede
[10:55] <x-f> oh yes :)
[10:57] <Upu> its like a little reward for actually bothering to read the instructions
[10:58] <eroomde> if only it worked on the wiki too
[10:59] <x-f> or in IRL
[10:59] <x-f> Upu, RFM22B's description does state that it's on back order
[10:59] <Upu> just order they are in
[11:00] <Upu> the modules ?
[11:00] <x-f> breakout boards
[11:00] <Upu> or the breakouts ?
[11:00] <Upu> ah
[11:00] <Upu> yes about a week
[11:01] <x-f> ok
[11:04] <Upu> ok afk
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[11:37] <kokey> I think we should change the channel topic to say that if eroomde is around, make sure you have checked the wiki before asking any questions
[11:39] <kokey> 'discuss anything to do with high altitude projects' does seem to give people the crazy idea that they could ask questions before reading the entire wiki
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[13:16] <cuddykid> common flu, time to bugger off now
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[13:24] <eroomde> zyp: looks like I made a friend
[13:25] <zyp> it happens :p
[13:28] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Joey R2 PCBs - http://t.co/eAT03H4T #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/258197608252727296]
[13:29] <eroomde> zyp: anyway thanks for the suggestion. if i can get the micro to control that much memory easily enough (without hickuping when it transfers between banks and so on) then that could well be the way forward
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[13:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.ahajokes.com/funnypics/assets/uploads/76d9f62fcdd5432236a79336e6581508.jpg
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.thedigitalaviator.com/blog/?p=504
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> boom
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[14:05] <staylo> Yeah, that's a crazy story :) Check out the D-21 collision video too
[14:05] <Randomskk> crazy plane
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[14:13] <eroomde> just had a huge bang on the site
[14:13] <eroomde> rushed outside to the test stand to see if andy and malcolm were still alive
[14:13] <eroomde> they were
[14:13] <eroomde> and they were standing looking dazed by an expoloded 200 bar air line
[14:13] <eroomde> 'that wasn't meant to happen'
[14:14] <Randomskk> haha
[14:14] <Randomskk> good stuff
[14:16] <Darkside> wow
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[14:18] <gonzo__> sometimes a quite 'oops' says it all
[14:19] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: nice article about the world fastest eggshell.
[14:19] <cuddykid> ooo - dropbox are giving away extra 3GB space for uni students :D
[14:19] <Randomskk> shame it only lasts two years
[14:19] <Randomskk> still, not bad
[14:20] <cuddykid> yep
[14:20] <Hiena> I read the declassified SR-71 flight manual. That plane was a piece of Ming vase. any misshandling would ends to break-up, even at the low speed flight regime.
[14:26] <kokey> watched a bit of the golden compass the other night, and the girl in it destroyed some lab by flicking all the switches and levers and I was thinking how many things out there can probably be destroyed like that
[14:26] <eroomde> faulty hose
[14:26] <kokey> we're so used to consumer devices which are designed to be as idiot proof as possible
[14:26] <eroomde> malcolm on the phone, has got them to courier out a complete new batch of hoses each with a CoC
[14:26] <eroomde> malcolm is good
[14:27] <eroomde> er sorry in work mode. CoC = certificate of conformity
[14:28] <kokey> ah, was trying to google that and it came up with something about a cock
[14:28] <eroomde> glad to have saved you that rabbit hole
[14:29] <gonzo__> not a safe thing to google!
[14:29] <kokey> well, it was hose cock, with a ball valve
[14:30] <kokey> good thing I had safe search on
[14:30] <eroomde> well the hose company have little choice in that kind of situation. it clearly failed beneath its rated pressure. if it's a batch problem they could have hell to pay
[14:31] <eroomde> infact they're bringing the new hoses round themselves and removing all the other ones for inspection
[14:31] <Randomskk> nice
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> ow
[14:31] <Randomskk> well as you say they have to, but still
[14:31] <kokey> bad batch could suck
[14:31] <gonzo__> and fresh undies all 'round?
[14:31] <kokey> thing is, only needs like a slightly higher percentage failure rate than expected to be a pain
[14:31] Action: SpeedEvil sings 'I've got hose'.
[14:32] <kokey> it sounds more like they've almost had heart attacks
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> oh - misread
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I thought it was 200 psi
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> bar is a leeetle bit nastier
[14:33] <Randomskk> just an order of magnitude or so
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> oil contamination?
[14:33] <eroomde> gonzo__: yes malcolm just said nothing at all after the bang and after i rushed out
[14:33] <eroomde> except eventually
[14:34] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: that would be my bet
[14:34] <eroomde> 'i think it's time for a cup of tea, chaps'
[14:34] <SamSilver> then 2nd it got 'nipped" somehow
[14:34] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: we've oxy-cleaned it all
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[14:36] <eroomde> IPA then peroxide then put in clean bags
[14:36] <eroomde> standrd operating stuff here
[14:36] <eroomde> then usually another peroxide once it's all installed
[14:36] <eroomde> if the setup allows it
[14:37] <eroomde> they did used to oxy-clean stuff with lox when in a hurry at westcott
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[14:37] <eroomde> on the rocket, such that any explosive gases could vent through the rocket exhaust
[14:37] <eroomde> needless to say we don't do that nowadays
[14:39] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[14:39] <eroomde> yo jcoxon
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> 'soon
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[14:44] <jcoxon> ping Darkside
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[15:13] <MLow> the hardest part to find a price on, or more information in genreal
[15:13] <MLow> is the price of the helium tank rental, regulator, and fittings required to hook up to the neck of a balloon
[15:15] <jcoxon> thats cause it varies quite a bit
[15:15] <jcoxon> the tank rental - best call local suppliers
[15:16] <MLow> i was thinking maybe weling supplies
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[15:16] <jcoxon> if you get a tank for party balloons then you can make a filling tube that'll fit onto the rubber valve
[15:16] <MLow> welding*
[15:16] <jcoxon> therefore depends what regulator they can supply
[15:16] <MLow> couldnt I just avoid the regulator entirely
[15:16] <MLow> just be reaaaally careful with the valve
[15:17] <jcoxon> we don't encourage that
[15:18] <MLow> it seems more risky to slip a hose on a regulator its not meant for
[15:18] <MLow> unless there is some kind of thread involved to secure it
[15:18] <jcoxon> most people use the party balloon tanks
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[15:19] <jcoxon> the regulator has a rubber end which you bend to release teh gas
[15:19] <DrLuke> oh sweet, all my parts for my dc-dc converter arrived
[15:19] <DrLuke> gotta solder everything together later :3
[15:19] <jcoxon> this suits a hose as its low pressure
[15:19] <MLow> party balloon grade helium?
[15:19] <MLow> :\
[15:21] <jcoxon> MLow, what you planning to do with it
[15:21] <MLow> go high
[15:22] <jcoxon> i don't think going for scientifc grade He will make a difference
[15:23] <jcoxon> you can optimise a load of easier variables
[15:23] <MLow> it was my understanding that some party helium suppliers use a bad mix that barely floats a latex balloon
[15:23] <jcoxon> if you are getting a proper tank it should be about 94% He
[15:23] <jcoxon> if you really want to go high then surely the gain will be H2 ratehr than He
[15:23] <Gav_> could anyone point me to any how too's. Not on launches but how to setup the payload?
[15:24] <jcoxon> Gav_, wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[15:25] <MLow> best i can find, is that a 200cu ft or so tank runs about $100 maybe includes a regulator maybe not
[15:25] <jcoxon> MLow, in the states?
[15:25] <MLow> yes
[15:25] <jcoxon> people are really struggling there
[15:27] <MLow> your words inspire confidence
[15:28] <jcoxon> as in stuggling to get Helium :-)
[15:28] <jcoxon> i'm on a few of the team mailing lists
[15:28] <MLow> im not quite living paycheck to paycheck but im close
[15:28] <jcoxon> why not consider H2
[15:28] <MLow> i have a kia
[15:29] <MLow> thats like, 1800lb's
[15:29] <MLow> for some odd reason, putting a H2 tank in there scares me
[15:29] <MLow> helium tank, no
[15:29] <MLow> odd
[15:29] <jcoxon> i'd say that you should treat all pressured tanks with respect
[15:30] <MLow> obviously its a windows down venture, and pot holes i always avoid
[15:30] <MLow> but a sudden stop would probably be bad in any vehicle short of a truck with tank mounts
[15:30] <MLow> at least with helium i know something is leaking when we all start talk like mickey mouse
[15:31] <Laurenceb> you could buy a hydrogen gas sensor
[15:31] <Laurenceb> even just grab one from sparkfun
[15:31] <MLow> this is true
[15:31] <MLow> :|
[15:32] <MLow> for some reason
[15:32] <MLow> i think the explosion would let me know there is a leak first
[15:33] <MLow> its not so much the cost im worried about
[15:33] <MLow> its the fact hydrogen scares me, does that make sense?
[15:33] <MLow> the logistics are all pretty much the same
[15:34] <MLow> fit giant tank in small car, drive carefully
[15:34] <eroomde> MLow: yep that's the big thing
[15:34] <MLow> cobble together regulator/hose kit to fill balloon
[15:34] <eroomde> they're both basically as safe/dangerous to handle
[15:35] <eroomde> but one sounds scarier
[15:35] <MLow> if i had a way to know for instance, i need X hose to hook up and X setup to fill balloon, id be on this
[15:35] <MLow> but I can't find a way to be certain on that
[15:35] <jcoxon> MLow, chose the tank and gas and ask what the thread/tubing thats required
[15:36] <jcoxon> iirc some hydrogen tanks for example have a reverse thread to Helium tanks
[15:36] <MLow> and I do that by what, just making a bunch of cold calls?
[15:36] <jcoxon> well call the suppliers
[15:36] <jcoxon> they are going to want to sell you
[15:36] <jcoxon> something
[15:36] <jcoxon> so should be happy to give you the details you need
[15:37] <MLow> well id like to avoid any extra costs
[15:37] <MLow> keep cost to launch low
[15:37] <MLow> so if this works out I can make a bit of a hobby of it in the end
[15:38] <MLow> basically I'm trying to make a spread sheet with the costs of stuff, to plan things out for the month ahead
[15:38] <MLow> save the cash needed, add on some cusion money, but this is the one X fact that alludes me
[15:39] <eroomde> MLow: bill brown, mega hab legent in the US, gets offered free lifts by some meterological outfit
[15:39] <eroomde> i.e. he can put a payload on one of their balloons
[15:39] <eroomde> so it might be worth seeing if that is an option for you
[15:39] <eroomde> would at least let you get the measure of the hobby without too much capital outlay
[15:40] <eroomde> and get advice on hydrogen usage, as i beleive they use hydrogen isntead of helium
[15:41] <MLow> well i was thinking of maybe seeking sponsorship or something
[15:41] <MLow> ive got a pretty popular youtube channel for whatever that is worth, slap their logo on screen and a stick on the box
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[15:45] <x-f> iirc, all gases that burn have reverse thread on their tanks
[15:45] <Willdude123> Hi.
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[15:45] <x-f> hi, Will
[15:47] <kokey> I find that time to build and muck with stuff is harder to come by than the money
[15:48] <kokey> and I figured starting with buying an arduino and some modules won't hurt since I want to play with it anyway
[15:49] <MLow> well i have a duino or two
[15:49] <MLow> rasberry pi
[15:49] <MLow> box of sensors and radios
[15:49] <MLow> havent really decided on what I want tos end up on a first balloon, i think I will make a simple aprs tracker and go from there on later launches, increasing in complexity
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/special/2003/yamagami/index.shtml
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> to 50km
[15:50] <MLow> so just a aprs tracker, some temp sensors, humidity, pressure...maybe a couple others dont know yet
[15:54] <Willdude123> Rpi for video recording?
[15:54] <MLow> a $30 canon with custom firmware can do that better
[15:54] <MLow> now, transmit video, yes it could
[15:54] <MLow> but then so could any cheap 2.4ghz transmitter
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[15:57] <Willdude123> You can transmit video? How? Do you need a license?
[15:57] <mattbrejza> dont get too excited, its not gonna work on a balloon
[15:57] <mattbrejza> (at legal powers anyway)
[15:58] <MLow> you could do sstv if you wanted
[15:58] <mattbrejza> yea amateur stuff has been done
[15:58] <mattbrejza> i ment off the shelf 2.4g stuff
[15:59] <MLow> directional antenna and 2.4ghz
[15:59] <MLow> i dunno, why couldnt it?
[15:59] <mattbrejza> not enough power
[15:59] <mattbrejza> so i suppose it would work with a massive recieving dish
[16:00] <Randomskk> still not legal
[16:00] <Randomskk> but yea it really wouldn't work for long
[16:00] <mattbrejza> how come?
[16:00] <MLow> the directionality of a dish would probably go over your effective watts
[16:00] <MLow> but then again, your just receiving
[16:00] <mattbrejza> yea only on the rx side
[16:00] <mattbrejza> but wifi isnt just rx
[16:01] <mattbrejza> but then it doesnt have to be wifi
[16:01] <MLow> 2.4ghz video transmitters exist
[16:02] <mattbrejza> has anyone bothered working out what rx gain would be needed? or just assume its not worth it?
[16:02] <mattbrejza> i would guess the second
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[16:03] <russss> I think everyone's done the maths at some point
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> it's depressing.
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> the effective area of a WiFi dipole is perhaps 10cm on a side.
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> so, .01m^2
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> if we go to quite a large dish - with 2m^2 of area, you only boost range by 15 times or so.
[16:08] CliveAllen (~IceChat77@c2BA63E56.dhcp.as2116.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> which takes you optmostically to several km
[16:09] <russss> you need gain on both ends, or more power
[16:09] <russss> well, power == gain anyhow
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> unless you have an on the top
[16:09] <russss> and both are not legal
[16:10] <MLow> ok so 2m/s acscent is slow huh...
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> actual steered lasers are inexpensive
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=220678256510&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=03332871516 take that, a 10mw laser, a couple of servos to point it rpighly, a couple of gyros, GPS, computing power, a low bandwidth link for setup - easy
[16:12] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: would you steer it from balloon to ground, or ground->balloon->thing?
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> on both ends
[16:13] <Randomskk> I could imagine having an LCD or some surface of controllable reflectivity then a steerable laser and scope on the ground might be easier than hitting a small ground target from the balloon
[16:13] <fsphil> retroreflector
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> the above salvo is _fast_
[16:13] <CliveAllen> Hello, i was wondering if someone could recomend which Arduino board is best for using with the NTX2 transmitter and a GPS module and if anyone has experience using the Yaesu FT-530 ?
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> galvo
[16:14] <BrainDamage> wouldn't atmospheric refraction gradients and stuff like clouds give you problems with optical based systems?
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: not really
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> well, clouds of course
[16:14] <fsphil> CliveAllen: standard arduino is fine, but that radio will not receive the FSK RTTY as it's FM only
[16:15] <BrainDamage> I guess the low bandwith link helps immensely with target locking with refraction in place
[16:15] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: I still think hitting the ground target from the balloon would be challenging to say the least
[16:15] <Randomskk> eroomde might have views on that
[16:15] <fsphil> clouds are a particular problem here :)
[16:15] Action: eroomde reads backlog
[16:16] <fsphil> the width of the beam would be quite large after 20km travel through air
[16:16] <CliveAllen> fsphil: Thanks that what I was wondering since I have found with help from google that it has 50cm dual band support: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?303334-Yaesu-FT-530-2m-70cm-Dual-Band-Handheld-Accessories
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: correlating the gyro and galvo will be tricky
[16:16] <fsphil> you basically need something that supports SSB on 70cm CliveAllen, FT-790, FT-817, etc.
[16:17] <MLow> these payload rock violently
[16:17] <fsphil> there are very few multi-mode handhelds
[16:17] <eroomde> CliveAllen: any 3.3V arduino
[16:17] <eroomde> 3.3V because the gps and ntx2 are also 3.3V
[16:18] <CliveAllen> What would be the best GPS module since I have heard that some cut out at a certain altitude due to restrictions imposed by the USA?
[16:18] <eroomde> most people here use the uBlox 6
[16:19] <eroomde> they can be set over a serial link to 'airborne' mode which will work at altitude
[16:19] <CliveAllen> ok great, thanks for the info
[16:19] <fsphil> yes +1 on the 3.3v
[16:19] <fsphil> it makes life so much easier
[16:19] <Upu> +1 3.3v
[16:19] <Upu> or is it +2 ?
[16:20] <fsphil> I forgot arduino is 5v
[16:20] <fsphil> 3.3+1=4.3? I'm confused
[16:20] <fsphil> also, going home. yay :)
[16:20] <Upu> tata
[16:21] <mattbrejza> is anything (digital) still 5V these days?
[16:21] <CliveAllen> Are there any other good alternatives to the arduino...I am no electronics expert as you can probably tell.
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[16:21] <mattbrejza> msp430
[16:21] <mattbrejza> avr without arduino
[16:21] <mattbrejza> arm (harder)
[16:21] <eroomde> there are plenty of alternatives, but arduino is probably the best starting point if you're not so experienced with electronics
[16:21] <mattbrejza> pic (eww)
[16:21] <eroomde> that's why we generally recommend it
[16:21] <chris_99> what's wrong with pic!
[16:22] <Upu> You'll probably get more assistance if you go for Arduino
[16:22] <eroomde> ever-thang
[16:22] <chris_99> usb support is pretty good once you get it working too
[16:22] <CliveAllen> Well the arduino seems easily available here in Norway at least
[16:23] <jcoxon> CliveAllen, where abouts in norway are you?
[16:23] <CliveAllen> just south of Bodø
[16:23] <Upu> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardProMini
[16:23] <Upu> that one
[16:24] <CliveAllen> thanks Upu
[16:24] <jcoxon> CliveAllen, so quite north
[16:24] <jcoxon> one day we'll get a balloon to float up towards you
[16:24] <chris_99> PIC32 will be able to run BSD at some point too eroomde ;)
[16:25] <Willdude123> Upu: What does 'AVA is very pink' mean?
[16:25] <Upu> :)
[16:25] <Upu> what it says :)
[16:25] <Upu> All my payloads are bright pink
[16:25] <Willdude123> Okay. :)
[16:25] <Upu> easy to see in trees
[16:26] <CliveAllen> Yep we are within the artic circle here but I am sure there have been HAB projects further north :)
[16:26] <eroomde> as is orange
[16:26] <eroomde> pink is the new orange, i admit
[16:26] <eroomde> but orange is the original gangta orange
[16:26] <eroomde> gangsta*
[16:26] <eroomde> CliveAllen: where are you?
[16:26] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203AvaLaunch2SummaryPics#5732080303804947122
[16:26] <eroomde> norway + artic circle = tromso?
[16:26] <eroomde> the one place i know of
[16:27] <Willdude123> Do you know anywhere I can get the AEE MD91?
[16:27] <CliveAllen> No not quite that far north, I am just south of Bodø
[16:27] <Willdude123> *cheap
[16:27] <eroomde> CliveAllen: ah ok
[16:27] <eroomde> I want to launch a balloon from there
[16:27] <eroomde> i visited a couple of years ago and loved it
[16:28] <eroomde> i think some pictures from 35km of the northerm lights and the glaciers would be a wonderful thing
[16:28] <CliveAllen> We are looking at a launch date in March, but does anyone have any experience of cold temperature launches and its performace on the ballon?
[16:28] <Upu> how cold ?
[16:29] <jcoxon> CliveAllen, the balloon should be fine (as it'll get to -50 at altitude)
[16:29] <eroomde> CliveAllen: the balloons get to -60 at altitude anyway
[16:29] <jcoxon> watch the regulator on the tank, that can freeze
[16:29] <Upu> yeah that too
[16:29] <CliveAllen> We had some fantastic Northern Lights here are the weekend......could be anything from -5 to -15 at ground level
[16:29] <eroomde> so ground temp doesn't matter too much
[16:29] <jcoxon> eroomde, shall we go and help :-)
[16:29] <eroomde> though ice forming on the balloon material has been postulated as a premature burst mechanism
[16:29] <eroomde> jcoxon: yes!
[16:29] <Upu> Can I come too ? :)
[16:30] <jonsowman> me too
[16:30] <eroomde> CliveAllen: jcoxon and I have both visited tromso and like it up there and hereby offer our services to you :)
[16:30] <CliveAllen> Great I might just have to take you up on that!!
[16:30] <eroomde> bother of us have done a balloon launch before
[16:30] <Upu> or two
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[16:31] <cuddykid> haha
[16:31] <cuddykid> count me in
[16:31] <eroomde> so we can hopefully pull our weight
[16:31] <Upu> UKHAS winter excursion
[16:31] <Upu> do you have room for 50 of us ?
[16:31] <eroomde> mountains and snow and glaciers will be morefun that washed-out green-yellow fields
[16:31] <CliveAllen> I assume we would need to fill the ballon with more Helium that normal due to the cold weather to get the necessary accent rate or is my logic wrong here?
[16:31] <eroomde> from a pictures PoV
[16:31] <eroomde> BUT
[16:31] <cuddykid> launched at around -10C before - hardest bit is keeping hands warm to tie all the knots and hold balloon etc!
[16:31] <eroomde> if we can get thelights
[16:31] <eroomde> mmmmmm
[16:31] <kokey> eroomde: I think ice is an issue with mylar
[16:32] <Randomskk> eroomde: did you see project aether's pics?
[16:32] <Randomskk> they launched from alaska
[16:32] <Randomskk> well north
[16:32] <Randomskk> had to take a small plane
[16:32] <eroomde> link me up
[16:32] <kokey> where is CliveAllen?
[16:32] <Randomskk> dunno where it is, jonsowman might
[16:32] <CliveAllen> We have a glacier just down the road here ( called Svartisen )
[16:32] Action: kokey gets skyscanner.net open
[16:32] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O-wAYKBBSc
[16:32] Action: cuddykid forgets skyscanner, looks into private UKHAS jet lol
[16:33] <eroomde> jonsowman: yes exactly
[16:33] <eroomde> we need this
[16:33] <eroomde> this would motivate me to do the damn stabilised platofrm
[16:33] <jonsowman> towards the end is the useful bit
[16:34] <CliveAllen> Room for 50 could be a small problem :) but the school has loaned out the gym before so it could be possible over a weekend
[16:34] <eroomde> jonsowman: final this evening!!!11!1!
[16:34] <jonsowman> eroomde: oh god so it is
[16:34] <Randomskk> :O
[16:34] <jonsowman> I hope James wins
[16:34] <eroomde> i do like brenden though
[16:35] <jonsowman> yeah
[16:35] <jonsowman> I don't think John will
[16:35] <eroomde> no
[16:35] <Randomskk> what time is it? might have to watch again >_>
[16:35] <eroomde> he too flappy
[16:35] <eroomde> 7
[16:35] <jonsowman> yeah
[16:35] <eroomde> or 8
[16:35] <eroomde> i forget
[16:35] <eroomde> 8
[16:35] <eroomde> or 7
[16:35] <eroomde> 8
[16:35] <Randomskk> nice
[16:36] <jonsowman> :)
[16:37] <jcoxon> hmmm to late in they day for solar testing
[16:37] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://projectaether.org/media/Denali_2b.jpg
[16:37] <eroomde> see the quality there is no good
[16:37] <eroomde> you need 2 or 3s exposures
[16:37] <eroomde> and a platform to hold it dead still
[16:38] <jonsowman> http://projectaether.org/media/dg17DSC_0324.JPG
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[16:39] <jcoxon> CliveAllen, have you explored the requirements to launch from norway?
[16:39] <jcoxon> do the air authority need to be notified?
[16:39] <eroomde> a recovery aeroplane with skiis
[16:39] <CliveAllen> Yes they do need to be notified and I have sent in a request today
[16:40] <SamSilver> dem > http://imgur.com/gallery/7CQkW
[16:40] <CliveAllen> We are also in the arrival and departure stream for aircraft into Bodø
[16:40] <jonsowman> SamSilver: haha
[16:40] <SamSilver> he da man
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[16:40] <eroomde> we need to do this artic launch
[16:40] <eroomde> project arctic
[16:41] <eroomde> Project Aurora
[16:41] <CliveAllen> :)
[16:41] <Randomskk> because no one has used that name ever before
[16:41] <eroomde> f' 'em
[16:41] <jonsowman> :)
[16:42] <cuddykid> Project UK HAS the Aurora
[16:42] <eroomde> #SpaceLights
[16:43] <eroomde> challenge mew, sir richard!
[16:43] <eroomde> me*
[16:43] <cuddykid> lol
[16:44] <eroomde> Northern Flights
[16:44] <jonsowman> like it
[16:45] <Willdude123> What happens if a payload lands on a huge field that is private property and you have no idea who the landowner is or how to contact him/her?
[16:45] <eroomde> you explode
[16:46] <cuddykid> he/she shoots you
[16:46] <CliveAllen> Great names but I think the kids at school will get to choose the project name :)
[16:46] <cuddykid> it's happened before
[16:46] <eroomde> seriosuly, i've seen it happen before, it's not pretty
[16:46] <john__> what is maximum payload limit in UK
[16:46] <john__> weight
[16:46] <cuddykid> where do you think daveake has gone - one too many flights landing in private fields..
[16:47] <jonsowman> lol
[16:47] <eroomde> john__: <6kg to be classed as a 'light' payloaD
[16:47] <Willdude123> What is the best make of balloon to get?
[16:47] <BrainDamage> that's why every payload should have a self destruct button
[16:47] <eroomde> Willdude123: seriosuly, you're basically asking us to incriminate ourselves
[16:47] <cuddykid> haha
[16:47] <eroomde> the correct answer is, you do not tresspass
[16:48] <cuddykid> Willdude123: personally I think Hwoyeeeees are the best value for money
[16:48] <eroomde> Willdude123: 'best' dunno. Howyee (sp?) is the most popular currently
[16:48] <cuddykid> recent flight with a pawan went bad due to poor quality - but they're sending another over for me to waste He on
[16:49] <Willdude123> Can this be trusted? http://www.amazon.co.uk/meter-Professional-Weather-Balloon-600g/dp/B0061SUOWO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350406110&sr=8-1
[16:49] <cuddykid> Willdude123: yes, but expensive
[16:49] <Willdude123> I'm trying to add up the cost.
[16:50] <cuddykid> get balloon from here: http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html or here: https://sites.google.com/site/balloonnewswebstore/
[16:50] <eroomde> john__: that said, please don;t fly something that is 6kg
[16:50] <john__> oh, because i was averaging 2kg
[16:50] <john__> so i thought should i add more things
[16:50] <cuddykid> oh wow - that's quite heavy - taking bricks up?
[16:50] <eroomde> the lighter the better is the generally true rule that's generally true most of the time
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> would you mind the payload landing on your head is another.
[16:51] <eroomde> and a lot of people here will strongly encourage new fliers to stay below 1kg
[16:51] <jcoxon> lightweight is very fashionable currently
[16:51] <cuddykid> john__: lighter would be cheaper too
[16:51] <eroomde> i take some pride in being by some margin the least fashionable, by that metric
[16:51] <cuddykid> haha
[16:52] <eroomde> but i would say that it certainly wasn't my first ever hab
[16:52] <john__> if i let me payload go in central london would that be illegal
[16:52] <jcoxon> john__, it wouldn't be illegal but we wouldn't be your friends
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> it may be illegal
[16:53] <jcoxon> well you'd need permission to let it go there
[16:53] <eroomde> john__: it's a question of where you can get permission to launch
[16:53] <jcoxon> so i guess it would be illegal to launch
[16:53] <john__> just in front of house of parliament
[16:53] <eroomde> if you let go of it anywhere without permission, in uk airspace, its' illegal
[16:53] <cuddykid> stand by for tomorrow - http://www.joshingtalk.com/2012/10/jtsub-shooting-date.html
[16:54] <eroomde> stop posting stuff like that
[16:54] <cuddykid> :)
[16:54] <eroomde> can we expunge it from zeusbot logs please
[16:54] <Willdude123> Is £80 decent for a parachute?
[16:54] <cuddykid> lol
[16:54] <eroomde> he doesn't need to google ranking
[16:54] <eroomde> Willdude123: expensive
[16:54] <Willdude123> OK.
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[16:54] <john__> would the payload move if there are heavy winds, and land in france (sorry about the rush of questions)
[16:56] <eroomde> well...
[16:56] <eroomde> what do you think?
[16:56] <CliveAllen> Ok guys thanks for your help so far, I am going to start ordering parts but I will no doubt be back!
[16:57] <john__> no
[16:57] <eroomde> wrong
[16:57] <john__> ?
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[16:57] <eroomde> if the winds are blowing it to france, and (flight time)*(wind speed) > (distance to france) then....
[16:58] <eroomde> yes it can get to france
[16:59] <eroomde> habs launch in the uk have landed in france before
[16:59] <john__> also, what date do i need to declare launch by?
[17:00] <eroomde> apply for a notam at least 28 days beofer you want to launch
[17:00] <eroomde> chase it up if it hasn't arrived by maybe 4 days before the launch
[17:00] <eroomde> they can be slow
[17:01] <Randomskk> you don't "declare", you "ask"
[17:01] <Randomskk> you have to receive permission before you can launch
[17:03] <john__> I'm using a temp,humidity, pressure sensor + camera + recorder, what else could i add
[17:04] <MrScienceMan> a cat
[17:05] <x-f> no living thing, please
[17:05] <john__> interesting
[17:05] <MrScienceMan> well, you could kill it before the flight
[17:05] <eroomde> john__: that's already an interesting data set
[17:05] <eroomde> for your first flight i'df just keep it at that and concentrate on launch and recovery
[17:06] <MrScienceMan> john__: gaiger counter if you can manage :)
[17:06] <eroomde> gaga counter
[17:06] <eroomde> 'one shitty pop song...'
[17:06] <eroomde> 'another shitty pop song'
[17:06] <eroomde> 'three shitty pop songs...'
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[17:07] <john__> i was thinking a radar system, a heat ir sensor, missile defence system but i think i'll be visited by Mi5
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[17:08] <chris_99> interesting heat sensors are stupidly expensive (InGaAs)
[17:08] <eroomde> suspect so
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[17:10] <SP9UOB> hi all
[17:11] <SP9UOB> how to announce flight on the map (spacenear?)
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> where are you SP9UOB
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> ?
[17:11] <SP9UOB> SpeedEvil: at home ;-)
[17:11] <SP9UOB> SpeedEvil: Poland
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> do tpu have the appropriate launch permissions?
[17:12] <SP9UOB> SpeedEvil: what a question. Sure I have
[17:13] <SP9UOB> D5738/12 - RADIOSONDE WILL BE LAUNCHED FM PSN: 501621N 0184021(WGS-84). TIME OF LAUNCHING: 1000 UTC. DIAMETER: 1,5-10M COLOUR: CREAME RATE OF CLIMB: 2 M/S CEILING: UP TO 34000M AMSL FREQ: 28.493MHZ FIR BOUNDRY CROSSING IS POSSIBLE. ORGANIZER PHONE: +48 500 267 765. GND - 34000M AMSL, 1000-1530, 20 OCT 10:00 2012 UNTIL 21 OCT 15:30 2012. CREATED: 10 OCT 10:44 2012
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[17:18] <gonzo__> sounds far mor informative tyhan our NOTAMS
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[17:19] <SP9UOB> gonzo__: are You from UK?
[17:20] <russss> I think ours are more to the tune of "there might be a balloon but you're probably more likely to hit a plane so keep an eye out for those"
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[17:22] <SP9UOB> Polish air space controllers often call me to ask "where is the balloon now"
[17:23] <gonzo__> SP9UOB, yep. In the UK they just give a 1km circle ad say there is a balloon
[17:26] <SP9UOB> gonzo__: a huge one ;-)
[17:31] <fsphil> I've never had many requests from ATC or pilots
[17:31] <fsphil> pilots usually just ask if it's in the air
[17:31] <fsphil> ATC usually ask me to tell them when it's landed
[17:32] <fsphil> not sure why
[17:33] <SP9UOB> fsphil: Every time I launch the balloon i must report launching, and landing
[17:34] <SP9UOB> to the ATC
[17:34] <fsphil> I have to phone them before launch too
[17:35] <fsphil> that bit I understand
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[17:43] <hibby> ohmigod guys, I saw that thing on tv the other day and i thought it was, like, so cool and i was wondering if you guys could make me able to do that becuase it cant be that hard if someone managed to do it like 50 years ago and stuff you know what I mean?
[17:43] <hibby> in other words, evening all.
[17:43] <Upu> XD
[17:44] <fsphil> hi hibby Upu eroomde
[17:44] <hibby> how goes fsphil
[17:45] <Upu> how are you ?
[17:45] <fsphil> splendid :)
[17:45] <hibby> jolly good, old bean
[17:45] <SP9UOB> all: how to announce flight on the map (spacenear?)
[17:46] <Upu> mail the list if you haven't already
[17:46] <Upu> and someone possibly me will put it on there
[17:46] <SP9UOB> Upu: ah, ok i have already mail annouce to the list
[17:46] <SP9UOB> upu: ok thanks
[17:46] <Upu> do you know exactly when you're launching ?
[17:47] <SP9UOB> upu: if wearher permits (no heavy rain) sat 20 oct at 10:00 utc
[17:47] <Upu> ok
[17:47] <Upu> you can launch in rain
[17:47] <SP9UOB> weather
[17:48] <SP9UOB> upu: i know, but i want as low ascend rate as possible
[17:48] <Upu> planning on a float ?
[17:48] <Upu> oh yes you are aren't you
[17:49] <SP9UOB> to achieve floating
[17:49] <SP9UOB> Upu: me arent me :) ?
[17:50] <SP9UOB> Upu: long range HF tracking- remember :) ?
[17:50] <Upu> I recall yes
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[18:42] <Willdude123> Where is the best place to buy a AEE MD91 ?
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[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:53] <Willdude123> Hello.
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[19:09] <Upu> Willdude123 sure you want too they jam GPS
[19:09] <Upu> but Ebay is where I got mine
[19:09] <Willdude123> Really?
[19:09] <Upu> oh yeah
[19:09] <Willdude123> How do they jam it?
[19:09] <Upu> bad sheilding
[19:09] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=306
[19:10] <Willdude123> I'm not going to do a flight anytime soon, but I was just pricing up the cost. Is there a decent alternative?
[19:10] <Upu> most of the cheap chinese cameras do it
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[19:10] <Upu> just use a Canon A560 or something
[19:10] <Upu> video is better quality anyway
[19:11] <Willdude123> Yeah.
[19:12] <Willdude123> I guess there are gopros but they are really expensive.
[19:12] <Upu> yes they are great but expensive
[19:12] <Upu> seriously try the video from a A560
[19:12] <Dan-K2VOL1> looking for cam control?
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[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL1> the gopro ipod connector has both buttons pinned out for you
[19:13] <Upu> whats that ?
[19:14] <Willdude123> It's an action camera thing.
[19:14] <Willdude123> It's really small I think.
[19:14] <eroomde> you can breakout the important buttons on the gopro
[19:14] <eroomde> from the connector
[19:14] <eroomde> is what i think dan is saying
[19:15] <Upu> interesting
[19:15] <eroomde> eg felix bumgardener had big red glove-friendly go switches next to each of his gopros
[19:15] <Upu> http://code.google.com/p/arducam-osd/wiki/GoPro_HD_Hacking
[19:16] <Upu> Imagine if Brian Cox and Bumgardner had babies eroomde
[19:16] <Upu> oh the humanity
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[19:18] <eroomde> space is AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....
[19:18] <eroomde> ...aaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
[19:18] <eroomde> ...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
[19:18] <eroomde> .... mine helmeten hast steamed uppen...
[19:18] <eroomde> .... zing
[19:19] <eroomde> *THUD*
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[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> has Radim been on here since the STS-1 flight?
[19:29] <fsphil> he certainly closed that page
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:29] <fsphil> then buried it at the bottom of the garden
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[19:30] <Willdude123> Hehe.
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:31] <Willdude123> zeusbot: Don't get angry.
[19:31] <Willdude123> zeusbot: Hello
[19:31] <fsphil> goodness, zeusbot has turned into a teenager like
[19:32] <fsphil> anyway
[19:32] <eroomde> /kick Willdude123
[19:32] Action: hibby notices taht ML&S are actually carrying the wouxun mobile radio
[19:32] <eroomde> oh no wait, i need to become an op for that to work
[19:32] <Willdude123> Apologies.
[19:32] <Willdude123> I won't do that again.
[19:32] <eroomde> you can talk to him via pm if you like
[19:32] Action: hibby is surprised
[19:32] <eroomde> he's more chatty
[19:33] <hibby> but... 70cm/2m dual band for 230 gbp... might be good for us. Tempted to get one and experiment.
[19:33] <eroomde> can it ssbify?
[19:33] <hibby> nah
[19:33] <hibby> fm
[19:33] <hibby> buggah
[19:34] <Willdude123> eroomde: Did you put a space before the / just to indicate that you were prepared/trying to kick me?
[19:34] <Willdude123> :)
[19:35] <eroomde> i'm nice likew that
[19:35] <Upu> I'm sure it was just a subtle shot across the bows
[19:35] <eroomde> i once did it accidely when giving nickserv my password
[19:35] <eroomde> to the whole channel
[19:35] <fsphil> been there done that
[19:35] <fsphil> although not in this channel
[19:36] <fsphil> always fun trying to find out how to change it in a hurry
[19:36] <eroomde> lol yes
[19:37] <eroomde> before someone else kindly takes it from you
[19:37] <eroomde> and then becomes op
[19:37] <eroomde> and then murders everyone in the channel
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> reason I asked for Radim was that I would like to know how he mounted his DS18B20
[19:37] <eroomde> one foot in one styrup
[19:37] <hibby> i done an mkick once.
[19:37] <hibby> that was silly
[19:37] <fsphil> ah well, there's always ##highaltitude :)
[19:37] <eroomde> stirrup*
[19:38] <hibby> lol
[19:38] <eroomde> mkick sounds a bit nuclear
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> author place can be handy
[19:38] <eroomde> i have never come across that before
[19:38] Action: eroomde feels a flush of excitement
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> search and replace
[19:38] <hibby> eroomde: in a channel of 2-300, it was, um, bad.
[19:38] <eroomde> it sounds a bit non-commital too
[19:39] <eroomde> like
[19:39] <eroomde> i could KICK! you
[19:39] <eroomde> but if i'm a bit unsure
[19:39] <eroomde> i might be like
[19:39] <eroomde> mmm
[19:39] <eroomde> hmm
[19:39] <eroomde> mmm...
[19:39] <eroomde> ...mkick
[19:39] <hibby> nah
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> setup it to replace your password with something else
[19:39] <hibby> masskick
[19:39] <hibby> clears the channel out
[19:39] <eroomde> we should come up with some agreement to never use it
[19:39] <eroomde> call it the masskick treaty
[19:40] <fsphil> /mforget *
[19:40] <hibby> channel guidelines? :p
[19:41] <eroomde> the channel is a place of freedom and liberty
[19:41] <eroomde> by which i mean browbeating and bullying
[19:42] <hibby> and me swinging by every so often
[19:42] <eroomde> like this chap
[19:43] <hibby> less useful.
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[19:47] <eroomde> well we must all start somewhere
[19:48] <fsphil> the perils of perl
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> in germany there is a washing powder called "Persil"
[19:50] <mfa298> hibby: if you wanted to spend 230gbp on a radio that would work for hab look at the kenwood/yaesu handheld at that price point as there are some with ssb recieve.
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[19:51] <mfa298> although my test with the kenwood th-f7 suggested it's not as sensitive as the ft817
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: UK too
[19:54] <hibby> mfa298: I'm still mourning the loss of my proper ground station
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:55] <hibby> not particularly keen on another handie - I'm looking at more power to fiddle with, really.
[19:55] <hibby> hams are a bit sparse up here.
[19:56] <mfa298> I've gone with Handies are fine for starting out but they're not good for much more than using the local repeater.
[19:57] <mfa298> I've got the nicer rigs but antennas are fun in a block of flats (half way up a 14 story block)
[19:57] <hibby> nightmare
[19:58] <hibby> I used to be a nerdy nerdy researcher, and was in control of a lovely ground station that conveniently worked on 144/430 mhz
[19:58] <hibby> now I'm a nerdy nerdy engineer and work with VSAT and funny bands all day long
[19:58] <hibby> or at least... design things to interface
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[20:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/embed/CCmTY0PKGDs?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fb3ta.com%2Flinks%2Fpopular&html5=1&autoplay=1&vq=medium
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> ocean global surface current visualisation
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[20:26] <jcoxon> evening
[20:26] <jcoxon> okay - i've got a pico payload
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[20:27] <jcoxon> its got 2xAAA with a boost converter
[20:27] <jcoxon> and 2x 3.7V 100mA solar panels
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> alkaline?
[20:28] <jcoxon> lithiums
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> I was going to suggest charging
[20:28] <kokey> what circuit do you use for charging?
[20:28] <jcoxon> no charging
[20:28] <jcoxon> so the solar cells will take the load during the day
[20:28] <kokey> ah ok, are the panels glass?
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> easy way would be shortly diodes
[20:28] <jcoxon> lithiums at nigh
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: need more than two panels
[20:29] <jcoxon> so the question is
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: well, unless they are horizontalish
[20:29] <jcoxon> whats teh best transmission schedule
[20:29] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, its not going to last for ever, just for a bit longer
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> what's your nominal consumption?
[20:30] <kokey> battery, you have to time it, solar panels just transmit when it has power
[20:30] <jcoxon> so i was thinking continous rtty during the day
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> need to think about cloud
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> assuming this is pico, not gloat
[20:31] <kokey> and only run the battery when people are going to be awake to track it, e.g. early evening and early morning
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> float
[20:31] <jcoxon> and then turn the gps off at night
[20:31] <jcoxon> and have just slow morse, slow hell to keep track of it
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> maybe a few positions at midnight
[20:32] <jcoxon> as in if we lose its signal its gone down
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> that is solar midnight
[20:32] <jcoxon> as the last long pico flight we had no gps all night
[20:32] <jcoxon> wasn't a disaster
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> true, but one position is quite cheap
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[20:33] <jcoxon> yes very fair
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> do you have a decent etc?
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> rtc
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> otherwise, it's not
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:34] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, no rtc onboard
[20:34] <jcoxon> too much mass
[20:34] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> Evening
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> can you wake up and transmit anything battery less?
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> say you have 10s of sun as you rotate
[20:35] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, yes
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> or are the panels horizontal
[20:35] <jcoxon> they are flat horizontal
[20:36] <kokey> I guess if it's above the cloud you should normally have enough light during the day
[20:36] <kokey> above cloud, there's plenty sun, with the sun to make sure it gets to a panel
[20:36] <kokey> I mean with cloud to make sure..
[20:42] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, basically i need the liithims to boot the gps
[20:42] <jcoxon> as its current draw is too much for the single panel i've tested
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> considered a small super cap?
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> I also wonder about rechargeable alkaline
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> though I guess liion would be more sane
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> might not even need a shunt reg
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> -2mv/C
[20:55] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> Upu - are you around?
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[20:57] <Upu> evening
[20:57] <Upu> yes I'm here
[20:57] <Upu> sorry been afk
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> wb
[20:59] <Upu> hey lunar
[21:02] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> Hi Upu, if I wanted to build a pAVA Rev6, would that be possible? I mean - do you consider the board and schematic closed or is it open and avaliable for people to play with?
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, Radim's flight with the vaisala was great, the DS18B20 seems to be not that good as I saw the data today
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> but do we know how he mounted his DS18B20?
[21:02] <Upu> I consider it closed G7PMO_Kev
[21:02] <Upu> though you're welcome to the schematic
[21:03] <Upu> I'd encourage people to make their own
[21:03] <Upu> version of it
[21:03] <Upu> afterall its just an Arduino Pro
[21:03] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> indeed
[21:03] <Upu> with a different power supply and the radio and GPS integrated
[21:03] <Upu> I don't know Lunar_Lander no
[21:04] <Upu> but yes the results were interesting
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeh
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> 10°C difference is
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> bad
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:04] <Upu> I don't sell the made up trackers
[21:04] <Upu> but I'm happy to help you design your own
[21:05] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> upu I was looking to get my own pcb's made etc, just wanted to start from a known working starting point :)
[21:06] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> an Eagle Schematic would be great, the Laying out would be good practice
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, btw did you watch felix' jump on sunday? (sorry if I already asked)
[21:06] <Upu> yeah
[21:06] <Upu> technically fall
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:07] <Upu> G7PMO_Kev pava possibly isn't the best start point
[21:07] <Upu> as the power supply is very specific
[21:07] <Upu> i.e I designed it to run from a single cell
[21:07] <Upu> being blunt unless you're proficient at soldering you'll struggled with it
[21:09] <Upu> have you made a payload using an Arduino yet G7PMO_Kev ?
[21:09] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> I can solder a 328p-au, not tried the converter with the underneath ad...
[21:10] <Upu> yeah its fun
[21:10] <Upu> you have to design the board with a via under it
[21:10] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> Upu - Im getting close to launching 'bob' http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:jimbob:bob
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[21:11] <Upu> oh cool on vero
[21:11] <Upu> like the under NTX2 insulation :)
[21:11] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> vea, was an easy way to build a shield as a starting point
[21:11] <Upu> that looks like it will fly
[21:12] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> It has changed a but since that pid
[21:13] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> DS18B20's added, wires from the gps soldered in properly now I have rx and tx the right way around :)
[21:13] <Upu> been there done that
[21:13] <Upu> on a PCB :/
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[21:14] <x-f> http://amyshirateitel.com/2012/10/16/redbulls-stratos-stunt/
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[21:15] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> ditto... I did a tracker for a rocket a couple of years ago before I knew you guys existed....
[21:16] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> An ER400TS transmitted the GPS sentances directly.....
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[21:16] <fsphil> that's been discussed, wiring a gps directly to an ntx2 :)
[21:17] <fsphil> I don't think the ublox goes to a low enough baud rate
[21:17] <fsphil> although I bet nobody has tried with the newer modules
[21:18] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> yea, I was tx'ing far to fast for the distances we are talking here
[21:18] <Upu> only goes down to 4800
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[21:20] <Upu> G7PMO_Kev https://www.dropbox.com/s/pelle31tx6lf61y/picoAva-Rev6.pdf
[21:22] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> you can get custom code for GPS's
[21:22] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> I was using the FGPMMoPA6b, and got a custom firmware to start up tx'ing a custom sentance
[21:23] <G7PMO_Kev_Hotel> Thanks UPU
[21:25] <Upu> right dog walk
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[21:32] <Willdude123> What's the cheapest radio receiver to buy for payloads?
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[21:35] <eroomde> Willdude123: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[21:36] <arko> woah
[21:36] <arko> excellent
[21:36] <Willdude123> Sorry. Stupid question again.
[21:36] <eroomde> no it's fine
[21:36] <eroomde> that page isn't linked to from the tracking guide
[21:36] <eroomde> i post a link just because it's a better answer than me typing
[21:36] <eroomde> this is also a ood read first
[21:36] <eroomde> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[21:37] <eroomde> good*
[21:37] <Willdude123> Is there a cheap *reliable* receiver? That's not recommended for actual trackig.
[21:38] <Randomskk> not really
[21:38] <Randomskk> "cheap" starts to mean "a few hundred pounds"
[21:38] <eroomde> Yaesu FT790 from ebay
[21:38] <BrainDamage> cheap and reliable are usually orthogonal
[21:38] <eroomde> it's about the cheapest 'proper' rig with nice high sensitivity
[21:38] <eroomde> it's money well spent too, they hold their value
[21:38] <Willdude123> I take it that costs a lot.
[21:39] <arko> which one of the "compatible devices" would you recommend?
[21:39] <BrainDamage> compared to a 20$ stick yes, more like 5-7 times more
[21:40] <Willdude123> But it bumps up the cost of the whole thing to around £250
[21:40] <Upu> icom IC_r10 if you can find one
[21:40] <Upu> IC-R10
[21:41] <jcoxon_> i don' think the sdr approach is a bad approach
[21:41] <jcoxon_> its not bad at all
[21:41] <jcoxon_> and worth the money
[21:41] <Upu> fine for testing
[21:42] <jcoxon_> the listening network can do the hardwork for you
[21:42] <Upu> I'd certainly use an SDR for testing before committing to the expense of a "proper" receiver
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[21:47] <fsphil> and if you don't use it for tracking, you can just watch TV with it
[21:47] <arko> which device?
[21:48] <fsphil> the rtl-sdr dongles, they're actually DVB-T receivers
[21:49] <arko> ah
[21:49] <Willdude123> They all seem to expensive, and I can't see the icom one anywhere.
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> can we stop calling them RTL-SDR?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> RTL is a crap TV station in germany
[21:50] <eroomde> yes ok
[21:50] <eroomde> we'll call them
[21:50] <eroomde> LunarSticks
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:50] <fsphil> WDR-SDR
[21:50] <eroomde> like lunartics but with a higher sample rate
[21:50] <arko> WUT-WUT
[21:50] <fsphil> RTL used to own Channel 5 in the UK
[21:50] <fsphil> which explains a lot
[21:51] <arko> at least you guys dont have channels like fox news here in the states
[21:51] <fsphil> it's on satellite if you're willing to pay for it
[21:51] <fsphil> good for a laugh
[21:51] <arko> it's pretty funny and depressing
[21:52] <fsphil> then it gets depressing when you realise they're serious
[21:52] <arko> :< yep
[21:52] <arko> anyway, those were great links
[21:52] <eroomde> i thought it was like shutter island for a bit
[21:52] <fsphil> yea the sdr is really quite neat
[21:52] <eroomde> a kind of theray whereby you let mad people continue their delusion
[21:52] <arko> i'm gonna see if i can get a rig setup
[21:53] <eroomde> therapy*
[21:53] <arko> nah, they made the channel for angry rednecks with tiny ding dongs
[21:53] <arko> it keeps them in their homes
[21:53] <arko> off the streets
[21:53] <arko> it's better for everyone
[21:53] <eroomde> the wiki has a huge amount of stuff in general. it's just not always that easy to navigate :)
[21:53] <eroomde> worth a random stumble around over a coffee or two
[21:53] <arko> yeah, it's confusing :P
[21:53] <arko> neat
[21:54] <fsphil> we need a book of hab
[21:54] <eroomde> if only
[21:54] <arko> ^^^^
[21:54] <arko> that might actually sell since you will be the only one on the market
[21:54] <fsphil> well
[21:54] <arko> downside is that the book could be out of date
[21:54] <fsphil> we won't go there
[21:54] <arko> aww :(
[21:55] <fsphil> I'm surprised Bill never wrote a book
[21:55] <eroomde> i think it would be a free book
[21:55] <fsphil> yea
[21:55] <eroomde> someone wrote a book once and tried to charge for it
[21:55] <arko> sure yeah
[21:55] <arko> pdf or something
[21:55] <eroomde> it was a bit of a low point for hab
[21:55] <fsphil> "wrote" is go generous
[21:55] <fsphil> go/to
[21:55] <fsphil> too
[21:55] <fsphil> ack
[21:55] <eroomde> copied and pasted and malapropped
[21:55] <arko> haha
[21:56] <arko> man asking that question just opened a can of worms
[21:56] <eroomde> :)
[21:56] <arko> :P
[21:56] <eroomde> there was a bit of a doofus
[21:56] <arko> ok back to work for me
[21:56] <eroomde> no idea how much he didn;t know
[21:56] <arko> heh
[21:56] <eroomde> did one flight, hitching a lift on someon elses balloon with some elses tracker
[21:56] <eroomde> then wrote 'an exlcusive guide' about how to do hab
[21:56] <jcoxon_> eroomde, did you read it?
[21:57] <eroomde> which was the worst wirrten pile of crap in the hisotry of all technical writing
[21:57] <arko> lol
[21:57] <eroomde> and tried to charge for it
[21:57] <eroomde> jcoxon_: yes
[21:57] <eroomde> sadly
[21:57] <eroomde> i shall never get those 15 minutes back
[21:57] <arko> i don't mind paying if the info is good you know?
[21:57] <eroomde> ever
[21:57] <arko> haha
[21:57] <fsphil> I was wondering about those scratch marks around your eyes
[21:57] <eroomde> that was from visual basic
[21:57] <MrScienceMan> :x
[21:58] <Randomskk> eroomde: our house continues baking
[21:58] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xugr6et8be7ifrs/2012-10-16%2022.55.40.jpg
[21:58] <jcoxon_> eroomde, did you pay for it?
[21:58] <Randomskk> this time a lemon thing on some shortbread thing
[21:58] <eroomde> jcoxon_: no
[21:58] <eroomde> he tried to get me on this
[21:58] <eroomde> that i didn;t pay for it
[21:58] <fsphil> visual basic has only increased my love of C, so it's not all bad :)
[21:58] <eroomde> when i only read it to confirm he'd plagarised jgc's content without citing or asking permission
[21:59] <MrScienceMan> would sharing the pdf be considered piracy?
[21:59] <fsphil> be cruel
[21:59] <fsphil> to the reader
[22:00] <eroomde> so i scared him a bit about how it is fine to breach copywrite in cases of evidence in legal proceedings and how he was entirely at fault (which he was)
[22:00] <fsphil> we had apple crumble today, it was amazing
[22:00] <eroomde> he then came out with some unselfaware guff like 'well yes i think we've all learned from this and we can all move on and use our time productively'
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[22:01] <eroomde> i told him that someone like him should never be so presumptuous as to assume he can understand what is or isn;t a good use of my time and that i hoped he would never waste my time again
[22:01] <eroomde> that was the end of it
[22:03] <eroomde> i think he got off quite lightly really
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[22:04] <eroomde> arko: well anyway! back to happier things
[22:04] <fsphil> ponies!
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[22:05] <arko> indeed
[22:06] <arko> this next mission we're working on is crazy busy
[22:06] <eroomde> if not a book then a sort of well organised tour through the wiki
[22:06] <eroomde> 'first read this... then this... note this... now read this'
[22:06] <eroomde> etc
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[22:07] <eroomde> arko: what have you got planned?
[22:07] <arko> personal or work?
[22:07] <eroomde> the next mission
[22:07] <Willdude123> What was the yaesu radio recommended to me earlier called?
[22:07] <Willdude123> My scrollback isn't long.
[22:08] <eroomde> FT790
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[22:08] <eroomde> older model but the electronics and sensitivity are as good as any modern rig
[22:08] <eroomde> we used one as our main radio for several years
[22:09] <eroomde> too slow
[22:09] <arko> oh i was talking work: http://smap.jpl.nasa.gov/
[22:09] <arko> personal project is lagging, which will be habex2
[22:10] <arko> but that still needs to be tested
[22:10] <arko> and i need to pick a launch date for the balloon
[22:10] <eroomde> oh yeah jpl
[22:10] <eroomde> think i vaguely heard of them
[22:10] <eroomde> one
[22:10] <eroomde> or something
[22:10] <eroomde> something about space i think
[22:10] <arko> we did the mars mission that landed in august
[22:11] <jcoxon_> oh that one :-)
[22:11] <eroomde> yes i'm joking :)
[22:11] <jcoxon_> arko, very j33
[22:11] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki_Af_o9Q9s&feature=relmfu
[22:11] <arko> haha
[22:11] <jcoxon_> very jealous
[22:11] <eroomde> arko: i did a bit of work on curiosity
[22:11] <eroomde> i used to work in edl
[22:11] <arko> oh no way!
[22:11] <arko> gtfo
[22:11] <arko> seriously?
[22:11] <eroomde> but i worked for vorticity in the UK
[22:12] <eroomde> but they did a bit of work on curiosity and MERs
[22:12] <eroomde> and they designed the Huygens EDL system
[22:12] <eroomde> i know tom rivellini and a few other jpl-eld faces
[22:12] <eroomde> jpl-edl*
[22:12] <arko> nice!!
[22:13] <arko> that's aweosme!
[22:13] <eroomde> i don;t work there any more though
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[22:13] <arko> Huygens was a crazy new edl at the time
[22:13] <eroomde> but yes, parachutes on other planets is a fun area :)
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[22:13] <Willdude123> How are the radios co
[22:13] <Willdude123> nnected to pcs
[22:13] <eroomde> ntrolled?
[22:13] <arko> yeah
[22:13] <Willdude123> *PCs
[22:13] <eroomde> Willdude123: 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio jack to jack usually
[22:14] <arko> a lot of the folks here were up at ames for weeks on end
[22:14] <arko> testing the crap out of it
[22:14] <eroomde> arko: yeah. huygens predates me
[22:14] <arko> same
[22:14] <eroomde> yeah, i remember a few fairly stressed people
[22:14] <jcoxon_> night all
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[22:14] <Willdude123> Do those yaesu radios have a jack output?
[22:14] <eroomde> from pioneer and jpl
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[22:14] <arko> i bet
[22:14] <eroomde> properly impressed that it all worked like a charm
[22:15] <arko> yeah
[22:15] <eroomde> arko: i have done some overlap between edl and hab
[22:15] <eroomde> http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2011/CU_Spaceflight/
[22:15] <arko> i talked with a few of the engineers the night before and they were all "we did what we could"
[22:15] <arko> seemed stressed and calm
[22:15] <arko> odd place to be i bet
[22:15] <eroomde> yeah totally
[22:16] <arko> WOAH!
[22:16] <eroomde> a sort of car crash zen
[22:16] <arko> i love these projects!
[22:16] <eroomde> well, that sounds a bit perjoritive
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[22:16] <eroomde> but i guess a sense of inevitability
[22:16] <arko> haha
[22:16] <eroomde> no point being stressed
[22:16] <arko> yah
[22:16] <arko> well i know what paper im reading tonight
[22:17] <eroomde> :)
[22:17] <arko> or not since the link is broken
[22:17] <arko> :P
[22:17] <eroomde> after we presented it tom riv came up and said 'oh my god we need this!'
[22:17] <eroomde> it was about the proudest moment of my engineering life
[22:17] <arko> http://www.cusf.co.uk/CUSF_AIAA_2011.pdf
[22:17] <eroomde> as pathfinder was what got me into engineering as a 9 year old
[22:17] <arko> googled the pdf name, nvm
[22:17] <eroomde> and it was tom who came up with the idea, and developedc, the airbags
[22:17] <arko> dude!!!
[22:17] <arko> dudddeeee
[22:18] <arko> we would be best friends if you lived in the states
[22:18] <arko> just sayin
[22:18] <eroomde> :)
[22:18] <eroomde> well i do want to come and visit jpl soon
[22:18] <arko> i'd give you a tour if i got to know you better
[22:18] <arko> they're bitchy about security :/
[22:19] <arko> what a small world
[22:19] <arko> tom is a super cool dude
[22:19] <arko> rob manning is my personal hero though
[22:19] <arko> he's like the Woz of space
[22:19] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[22:19] <eroomde> never met him
[22:20] <eroomde> would love to though
[22:20] <eroomde> tom riv was good enough for me :)
[22:20] <arko> heh, reminds me of pathfinder days when i was kid
[22:20] <arko> i made a pathfinder mockup for a science fair
[22:20] <arko> good times man
[22:20] <arko> haha
[22:20] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/oYi7t.jpg
[22:21] <eroomde> that's me in the white t-shirt
[22:21] <arko> AWESOME!
[22:21] <arko> hahaha
[22:21] <eroomde> at a conference in dublin
[22:21] <eroomde> was all very surreal
[22:21] <arko> im
[22:21] <arko> so
[22:21] <arko> jealous
[22:21] <arko> i've wanted to go drinking witht hem
[22:22] <eroomde> well, dublin is a good place to go :)
[22:22] <fsphil> you do look like you can't quite believe what's going on around you in that pic
[22:22] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/prnio.jpg
[22:22] <eroomde> but you're working on a sat!
[22:22] <eroomde> fsphil: yes that was exactly the case
[22:23] <eroomde> arko: i think you just won in top trumps!
[22:23] <arko> manning and i the night before edl
[22:23] <arko> nah man
[22:23] <arko> we both win
[22:23] <eroomde> yeah... life could be worse :)
[22:23] <eroomde> so what are you working on with this sat?
[22:24] <arko> fight hardware testing
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[22:24] <arko> our software tests and records ev/rad/etc
[22:24] <eroomde> fsphil: that was also the night vorticity were giving me the hard sell and that was about my 11th free guiness. so i was generally struggling to stay in the real world
[22:24] <fsphil> ah
[22:25] <eroomde> arko: cool - are you allowed to talk about which hardware and how you test it?
[22:25] <eroomde> i find testing fascinating (i am wierd like that)
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[22:25] <arko> yes and no
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[22:27] <arko> at the moment i have no clue, so i will take the safe side and stay quiet
[22:27] <fsphil> that's gotta be annoying
[22:28] <arko> tell me about >_>
[22:28] <arko> its exciting sometimes too
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, GLaDOS?
[22:29] <fsphil> I bet
[22:29] <fsphil> I'm gonna have to get better at maths, get a job doing space stuff :)
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[22:29] <arko> do it!
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, eurospace!
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[22:32] <fsphil> I get the impression nobody really works for ESA
[22:33] <eroomde> yeah
[22:33] <eroomde> find the right small company
[22:33] <eroomde> avoid astrium or other megamega corp
[22:33] <fsphil> I think small is the key there
[22:34] <eroomde> i think so. if you're really into the engineering anyway
[22:34] <eroomde> astrium will provide you a lovely career but you might spend 8 years on one bit for one oil tanker fleet monitoring sat
[22:35] <eroomde> and most of it will take place in microsoft word
[22:35] <fsphil> not much different to what I'm doing now
[22:38] <zyp> I'm kind of glad I jumped off the space track during my education, I can't stand too much theoretical work
[22:39] <eroomde> but spaaaaaaaace!!!1!1!!1!one
[22:40] <eroomde> i'm in a really happly place atm. every day i'm makin. even secondary hobbies like electronics can play a role in work, and work will pay for them
[22:40] <eroomde> i think just stay with a small company is the key, as we've been saying
[22:41] <eroomde> somewhere where you are the chief designer and the machinist and the assembly technician
[22:41] <zyp> yeah
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, awesome!
[22:43] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: it is!
[22:43] <eroomde> while it lasts
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> like my time in my lab
[22:44] <fsphil> even when that's over, the time there will do you good in future
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> I don't get the GPS parsing function done but still
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:44] <zyp> when I finished uni I got hired by a nice small company doing embedded software :)
[22:45] <zyp> but the last year I've been working as a contractor for ST-Ericsson, I find that quite enjoyable too
[22:45] <eroomde> arco and i have so much in common!
[22:45] <eroomde> he's build a hexapod!
[22:46] <fsphil> they always looked good. useless at combat though :)
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[22:47] <eroomde> yeah mine was not so hot at combat
[22:48] <eroomde> you could stand on it
[22:48] <eroomde> and strip the gears in 18 expensive servos simultaneously
[22:48] <eroomde> cool feature huh
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[22:49] <fsphil> bah, minor issue
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[22:52] <eroomde> TADA
[22:53] <eroomde> http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs7/i/2005/176/8/9/My_Walking_Robot_by_eddymoore.jpg
[22:53] <eroomde> found a picture
[22:53] <eroomde> vintage 2005
[22:53] <Randomskk> deviantart
[22:53] <Randomskk> wow
[22:53] <eroomde> which makes me feel old
[22:53] <eroomde> yeah
[22:53] <eroomde> it was cool once
[22:53] <Randomskk> yea I had an account
[22:53] <Randomskk> once
[22:53] <Randomskk> was that a school project?
[22:53] <eroomde> a-level dt
[22:53] <Randomskk> cool
[22:54] <Randomskk> my a level project only had two servos both directly driving wheels >_>
[22:54] <Randomskk> but hey. http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3057594794/in/set-72157607851550306
[22:54] <Randomskk> less mechanatastic
[22:55] <eroomde> mechantastic has always pleased me
[22:55] <eroomde> why i'm more interested in launchers and landers than sattelites
[22:56] <eroomde> camera is pretty hardcore though for a-level :)
[22:56] <Randomskk> it was a gigantic huge faff
[22:56] <Randomskk> raw parallel data bus
[22:56] <Randomskk> 8 bits data plus sync lines
[22:57] <Randomskk> way underclocked to about 4MHz data clock
[22:57] <Randomskk> which was still highly entertaining to read into my micro, do some computer vision and output to a screen
[22:57] <Randomskk> hence, Logic http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3028480876/in/set-72157607851550306
[22:58] <eroomde> i love the logic
[22:58] <Randomskk> and then getting there in the end: http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3088363676/in/set-72157607851550306
[22:58] <Randomskk> (it could also follow red coloured objects around)
[22:58] <Randomskk> yes the logic was a total lifesaver
[22:58] <Randomskk> had pretty much just come out at the time
[22:59] <Randomskk> couldn't have possibly managed the project without it.
[22:59] <eroomde> nice
[22:59] <eroomde> they are great things
[23:00] <Randomskk> well now I feel old
[23:00] <Randomskk> great
[23:00] <Randomskk> :P
[23:00] <Randomskk> talking to bright eyed freshers doesn't help either
[23:01] <eroomde> lol yes
[23:01] <eroomde> 4th year
[23:01] <eroomde> you're a master now
[23:01] <eroomde> you should be mastering this stuff
[23:01] <eroomde> like a boss
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[23:02] <Randomskk> uh huh
[23:02] <Randomskk> wish I felt I like I was mastering my project, hah.
[23:02] <Randomskk> the most information and assistance I've got so far is one guy doing a similar project for postdoc research work emailed me a list of relevant proteins
[23:02] <Randomskk> oh well
[23:03] <Randomskk> bed time, computer vision lecture bright and early tomorrow.
[23:03] <eroomde> yep
[23:03] <Randomskk> fwiw 4F10 has a new lecturer but still appears to be just very hard maths
[23:03] <eroomde> who is it/
[23:03] <Randomskk> phil woodland
[23:04] <Randomskk> 4F6 is being run by a very soft spoken old guy who just talks about bayes lovingly for an hour without interruption
[23:04] <eroomde> AH YES
[23:04] <eroomde> bill?
[23:04] <eroomde> fitzgerald?
[23:04] <Randomskk> yes
[23:04] <Randomskk> him
[23:04] <eroomde> he's a legend
[23:04] <Randomskk> I can imagine
[23:04] <eroomde> v smart
[23:04] <Randomskk> yes I rather got that impression
[23:04] <Randomskk> fun to listen to him lecture too
[23:05] <eroomde> doesn't reall feel the need to publish or anything
[23:05] <eroomde> just happy to talk about bayes
[23:05] <eroomde> and run a couple of companies
[23:05] <Randomskk> though the course handout is literally a textbook and he doesn't refer to it ever, we just take notes
[23:05] <Randomskk> oh well
[23:05] <eroomde> yeah
[23:05] <eroomde> identical to when i did it
[23:05] <Randomskk> everything is overlapping pleasingly
[23:05] <eroomde> but i do keep refering to those notes
[23:05] <Randomskk> heh
[23:05] <eroomde> and Numerical Bayesian Methods Applied to Signal Procesing
[23:05] <eroomde> which is actually really good
[23:06] <Randomskk> certainly the best value for money course notes thus far
[23:06] <eroomde> fo sho
[23:06] <eroomde> code his stuff tho
[23:06] <eroomde> code the gibbs sampler
[23:06] <eroomde> be sure what a pre whitening filter is
[23:06] <eroomde> etc
[23:07] <Randomskk> sounds like a toothpaste
[23:07] <Randomskk> but yes I am endeavouring to find time to code this stuff up
[23:07] <Randomskk> a lot of the things in adaptive filters are bloody clever too
[23:07] <eroomde> its a linear transform of some kinds of non gassian noise into gaussian noise
[23:07] <Randomskk> handy
[23:07] <eroomde> so u can use kalman, day
[23:07] <eroomde> say*
[23:09] <Randomskk> very handy
[23:09] <Randomskk> yea his course is good fun
[23:09] <Randomskk> and really sits together with f10 pretty well. though it's all basically the same thing now
[23:09] <Randomskk> well. will see about f1.
[23:09] <Randomskk> anyway basically all fine
[23:10] <Randomskk> mark gale is teaching machine learning next term though
[23:11] <eroomde> yeah, there's a lot of overlap
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[23:14] <fsphil> cool, planet discovered orbiting Alpha Centauri
[23:17] <fsphil> and my cool I mean hot, it's orbital period is 3.24 days
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, really?
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> im trying to find a good yaesu ft817nd on ebay new or 2nd hand, with whip / batt / misc crap
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> struggling :(
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> seen some "new" ones, for £550 ish
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> limited on what gear they come with
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> why with?
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, YAY
[23:25] <Lucasbuck> me being lazy
[23:28] <fsphil> the ft817's keep their value well
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi Lucasbuck btw, you are new?
[23:31] <fsphil> he's the new sheriff in these parts
[23:31] <Lucasbuck> new indeed
[23:31] <Lucasbuck> hah, nicely done fsphil
[23:31] <Lucasbuck> they do indeed keep their value well
[23:32] <Lucasbuck> almost bought one yesterday, but someone else it got for £450 from a chap
[23:32] <Lucasbuck> i was thinking about going SDR, but im recluctant to use something in testing that i wont use in live
[23:32] <Lucasbuck> then i saw this, which is tempting, but too costly
[23:33] <Lucasbuck> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ICOM-IC-7000-HF-VHF-UHF-ALL-MODE-ALL-BAND-TRANSCEIVER-MINT-BOXED-/160900711795?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Ham_Radio_Receivers_Transceivers&hash=item25766e0573
[23:33] <Lucasbuck> and far too hardcore for my needs
[23:33] <Lucasbuck> but not a bad price for the unit, considering all others are £1k +
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[23:36] <fsphil> the IC-7000 is brilliant
[23:36] <fsphil> I've only used one a couple of times, but was impressed
[23:37] <bbjunkie> especially for receiving tomatoes
[23:37] <fsphil> yes it got very sharp tomatoes
[23:37] <fsphil> the rtl-sdr would be fine for testing though
[23:37] <fsphil> and you can get a better radio later when you're ready
[23:38] <bbjunkie> I wasn't aware til yesterday you can feed video out of the 7000 to an external display
[23:38] <fsphil> yep
[23:38] <bbjunkie> like the 756 proiii
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[23:38] <fsphil> I'm surprised they didn't include an sstv decoder in it
[23:38] <bbjunkie> still want one of those pro 3s
[23:39] <bbjunkie> haha that would be cool
[23:39] <bbjunkie> most have rtty decoder so it wouldnt be hard
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[23:39] <bbjunkie> even the 7400/746 has
[23:39] <fsphil> my radios don't have any kind of decoding
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[23:40] <fsphil> I'm hoping yaesu or icom release an sdr-based transceiver someday
[23:41] <bbjunkie> its kinda pointless I suppose, because none will do everything, so you will need to add on no matter what
[23:41] <bbjunkie> mm there's talk of it
[23:41] <bbjunkie> or is it Kenwood.. cant recall
[23:42] <Lucasbuck> netcon died
[23:43] <fsphil> it's time mine did, need sleep. g'nite all!
[23:43] <Lucasbuck> nn
[23:43] <bbjunkie> yeah... the TS990 is SDR
[23:43] <bbjunkie> it will be BIG bucks though
[23:43] <bbjunkie> gnite
[23:44] <Lucasbuck> need to kip also, i shall be back to discuss radios again! :)
[23:44] <Lucasbuck> im very new to that tech
[23:44] <Lucasbuck> nn
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 17 2012