highaltitude.log.20121012

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[07:18] <eroomde> all quiet this morning?
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[07:20] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
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[07:28] <fsphil> moornin
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[07:51] <jcoxon> morning eroomde fsphil
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[08:37] <nosebleedkt> hi all
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[08:40] <fsphil> morning nosebleedkt
[08:45] <RG-lz1dev> good ol' morning
[08:47] <fsphil> the first frosy morning here, car was covered in ice
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[08:52] <costyn> morning
[08:53] <costyn> eroomde: did you see my question yesterday about the Keshe Reactor? Was wondering if you'd heard of it.
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[09:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: Ballon Jump Live"
[09:18] <nosebleedkt> lol
[09:18] <nosebleedkt> still much hot here :P
[09:18] <nosebleedkt> seems that winters come from north to south :_
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[09:26] <cuddykid> morning
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[09:32] <moumou> morning all
[09:40] <fsphil> hiya moumou
[09:40] <moumou> would you guyz go for a portable or station based radio receiver?! I am looking at one of these: http://www.yaesu.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1221
[09:40] <moumou> hello mate
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[09:41] <fsphil> that radio is FM-only, which would work for APRS but not for RTTY via the NTX2 or RFM22B radios
[09:41] <fsphil> so, it depends :)
[09:43] <jcoxon> oooo picture taken on gumstix
[09:43] <moumou> Ah! many thanks. Sorry novice :) I am planning to use The NTX2 for transmit
[09:44] <jcoxon> moumou, ft790r is a old but good choice
[09:44] <jcoxon> or ft817
[09:46] <moumou> thanks. It seems if you want something decent they come with a decent price tag
[09:47] <mfa298> if you wanted something really small something like the kenwood th-f7 might do the job although i'm not sure it would be as good as something like an 817
[09:48] <fsphil> c328 jcoxon?
[09:49] Action: mfa298 thinks i might have to make up some cables for the th-f7 and do a comparison next flight.
[09:49] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah
[09:49] <jcoxon> just piping it into the radio now
[10:02] <kokey> I got the rfm22b sending RTTY last night
[10:03] <cuddykid> :)
[10:03] <cuddykid> still waiting for my next batch of rfms to arrive - were due weeks ago
[10:04] <cuddykid> hmm - I wonder if BOC have stopped accepting new customers for helium too
[10:05] <kokey> I should buy some party cylinders from ASDA just in case, for a pico launch
[10:06] <gonzo__> a friend contacted BOC a month or so ago. They had indeed stopped.
[10:06] <cuddykid> ah
[10:07] <moumou> Why did they stop? not enough supply?
[10:07] <cuddykid> yep
[10:07] <moumou> bummer this is gonna put a hold on things
[10:07] <gonzo__> said thay were keeping supplies to honour existing customers.
[10:07] <jcoxon> its still possible to get gas
[10:07] <cuddykid> will just have to use H2 instead
[10:08] <cuddykid> need to invest in the filling equip needed for H2
[10:08] <gonzo__> I got my account before all this, but never ordered He, so not sure if that would be a prob
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[10:08] <mattbrejza> so how many years until H2 HAB overtakes He HAB?
[10:08] <gonzo__> But I intend going straight to H2
[10:08] Nick change: MrScienceMan -> RG-lz1dev
[10:08] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, this year i reckon
[10:08] <cuddykid> mattbrejza: it kind of is at the moment
[10:09] <mattbrejza> oh, i thought it was only a few
[10:09] <mattbrejza> when is that US reserve due to run out?
[10:09] <cuddykid> jcoxon: always at the back of my head when thinking about H2 is the situation with planes etc - is this cleared with the CAA or is it undocumented so we're ok?
[10:10] <cuddykid> super unlikely - but there is always that 'but, what if'
[10:10] <jcoxon> its not clear, this risk of H2 to the plane is minimal
[10:10] <cuddykid> yep
[10:10] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind plane engines burn fuel at a much higher rate than if a balloon went into the airtake, i cant really see an issue
[10:10] <cuddykid> agree
[10:10] <jcoxon> worse would be a underfilled balloon
[10:10] <jcoxon> coming down
[10:10] <cuddykid> yeah
[10:11] <jcoxon> the metoffice is considering switching back to h2
[10:11] <cuddykid> once the initial equipment is bought then the cost per launch is lower
[10:12] Nick change: GeekShad1w -> GeekShadow
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[10:13] <mattbrejza> and when H2 cars are avaliable...
[10:13] <mattbrejza> just attach the balloon to the fuel tank
[10:13] <fsphil> in 2050? :)
[10:13] <fsphil> I don't think h2 cars are going anywhere
[10:13] <mattbrejza> ok its a while but 2050?
[10:14] <mattbrejza> or at least enough pumps to not need to goto boc
[10:14] <mattbrejza> not that transfering H2 into a jerry can will go down well
[10:15] <gonzo__> I thought that the met used H2 anyway?
[10:15] <jcoxon> gonzo__, on the website they say they are considering it
[10:15] <gonzo__> (I used to use a gerry can for propane when I had a car on LPG)
[10:15] <jcoxon> might be old
[10:17] <gonzo__> Could be either, I'm just going from vauge feeling I read summut somewhere
[10:18] <mattbrejza> when astra has 'borrowed' met office stuff its been He
[10:18] <mattbrejza> (fairly sure of this)
[10:19] <jcoxon> what are people's thoughts on H2 Pico flights
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[10:23] <Darkside> worth a shot
[10:24] <jcoxon> its minimal volume of H2
[10:24] <jcoxon> not particularly dangerous
[10:24] <jcoxon> could generate our own quite easily
[10:25] <jcoxon> does anyone have a copy of sstv program for mac os x
[10:25] <jcoxon> seems like all the ones online are dead download links
[10:26] <fsphil> I've generated very small amounts of H2
[10:27] <jcoxon> not sure we wanted to know that
[10:27] <fsphil> electrolysis :p
[10:27] <fsphil> I wonder how much you could get from a bottle of water and a small lead acid battery
[10:28] <fsphil> or more importantly, how long it would take
[10:28] <fsphil> the experiment I did would have taken days to fill a small balloon
[10:30] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://handley.org.uk/fzz/?page_id=68
[10:31] <fsphil> hydroxide sounds fun
[10:31] <fsphil> sodium*
[10:32] <jcoxon> maybe next weekend...
[10:32] <jcoxon> fill a single balloon pico
[10:32] <Darkside> problem with sodium hydroxide is getting rid of the alkaline vapour
[10:32] <Darkside> which will damage the balloon
[10:33] <jcoxon> i think in this example they ran it through a condensor
[10:33] <Darkside> that'd work
[10:33] <fsphil> they did
[10:37] <BrainDamage> putting NaOH in a glass bottle ....
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[10:43] <costyn> does it matter on the rfm22b if the TX_ANT and RX_ANT are connected to GPIO0 and GPIO1 the other way around than is specified in the wiki? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rfm22b
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[10:44] <Darkside> you need to do it how they are spevified
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[10:44] <Darkside> else the libraries won't work
[10:45] <costyn> I see... because it seems Upu got it backwards on his breakouts
[10:45] <Darkside> i don't think so
[10:45] <costyn> I was beeping it out last night
[10:45] <Darkside> maybe the wiki is wrong
[10:46] <Darkside> ok, the way on the wiki is right
[10:46] <Darkside> that matches up with the RF22 library
[10:46] <costyn> ok, http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Wireless/General/RFM22B.pdf (page 61) <-- the S2 is the usual model right? (p
[10:46] <Darkside> i think so, yes
[10:46] <Darkside> lemme check out upus site
[10:47] <Darkside> the way he has done it looks correct
[10:47] <costyn> hmm ok
[10:47] <costyn> link?
[10:47] <Darkside> im just look at his pcb picture
[10:47] <costyn> yea
[10:47] <Darkside> wait
[10:47] <Darkside> no
[10:47] <Darkside> hmm
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[10:47] <Darkside> that is backwards
[10:48] <Darkside> what the hell
[10:48] <costyn> ok, so then I wasn't crazy
[10:48] <costyn> thehe
[10:48] <costyn> also the labels of SDI and SDO are wonky but he's fixed that for future versions
[10:51] <costyn> Darkside: I guess I should be able to fix it in software with changing how the GPIOs are setup ?
[10:51] <Darkside> im not sure
[10:51] <Darkside> i haven't looked that deeply into how that is set up
[10:51] <Darkside> its in one of the registers
[10:51] <costyn> ok
[10:52] DrLuke (~Im@p4FCE4B07.dip.t-dialin.net) got lost in the net-split.
[10:52] <costyn> well I think I'll remove the rfm from the breakout and test it again. it wasn't sending any radio signal last night
[10:53] <navrac_work> from upus note to me: SDI is connected to SDO, the pin marked SDL is actually SDI
[10:53] <costyn> navrac_work: yea
[10:53] <costyn> navrac_work: but now it looks like there's another mistake unfortunately
[10:54] <navrac_work> are you having problems with linking the tx and rx to the gpios?
[10:54] <costyn> navrac_work: well those are linked internally on Upu's PCB, but incorrectly it seems
[10:54] <Laurenceb> you are using "manual" mode?
[10:54] <costyn> Laurenceb: I'm following the wiki, not sure what you mean?
[10:54] <Laurenceb> on the rfm22b
[10:55] <Laurenceb> theres a mode where the internal modem is disconnected
[10:55] <Laurenceb> and you control output via the gpio iirc
[10:55] <costyn> Laurenceb: yea, that's what I'm using
[10:55] <navrac_work> ah interesting - ive only ever flown my own breakout boards for the rfms sdo i havent noticed- i ve got some of his old ones here i just use for prototyping
[10:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[10:56] <navrac_work> ill compare one of my boards with his
[10:57] <costyn> I'll write him a quick email, maybe he should take them offline in his store until he fixes it
[10:57] <navrac_work> ive got gpio0 to tx and gpio1 to RX
[10:57] <navrac_work> but it just depends what code you poke to the registers
[10:57] <costyn> navrac_work: on your own board right?
[10:57] <navrac_work> yep
[10:58] <costyn> navrac_work: do you have one of Upu's handy? or are those at home?
[10:58] <navrac_work> radio1.write(0x0b,0x12); radio1.write(0x0c,0x15); is what i use with that
[10:58] <navrac_work> im just looking at his board - hold on ill grab one that isnt soldered up
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[11:00] <costyn> navrac_work: thanks
[11:03] <navrac_work> ok ive got a green and a blue pcb from upu - i cant see the tracks on the pcb on the green one - but the blue looks wrong to me
[11:04] <navrac_work> the blue one has rx to gpio0
[11:04] <costyn> navrac_work: ok antenna connector on upper left the 3rd pad is connected to tthe 6th pad right?
[11:04] <navrac_work> yep
[11:04] <navrac_work> doesnt seem right#
[11:04] <costyn> ok
[11:04] <navrac_work> let me check the register settings
[11:05] <costyn> navrac_work: think it can be fixed it software?
[11:05] <navrac_work> oh tes - easy
[11:05] <costyn> just by changing the radio1.write(0x0b,0x12);
[11:05] <costyn> radio1.write(0x0c,0x15);
[11:05] <costyn> commands right?
[11:07] <navrac_work> possibly - just trying to find an440 - the main datasheet is as clear as mud
[11:10] <navrac_work> i make it 02 and 05 from the datasheet - cant see what the extra bit is for
[11:10] <costyn> navrac_work: might swapping them not be sufficient? it seems only to be putting the gpio pins high or low
[11:11] <costyn> which is what the tx-ant and rx-ant pins expect
[11:12] <navrac_work> yes just swap them over
[11:12] <navrac_work> 12 is hi on tx
[11:12] <navrac_work> 15 is hi on RX
[11:14] <navrac_work> reg 0b is gpio0
[11:16] <costyn> yea
[11:16] <costyn> will test it tonight
[11:18] <costyn> navrac_work: do you have a different datasheet than the official one?
[11:35] <kokey> Darkside: ever looked into doing PSK31 on the rfm22b?
[11:36] <kokey> I suppose it can't change frequecy fast enough to do PSK
[11:36] <cuddykid> the go pro lens is just too wide - so annoying cutting holes in sytrofoam for it
[11:37] <RG-lz1dev> cuddykid: are you using the case?
[11:37] <cuddykid> RG-lz1dev: no - it fogs up
[11:37] <cuddykid> just fly them "naked" :)
[11:38] <cuddykid> they capture great footage - it's just annoying cutting the holes for them
[11:39] <Darkside> uh
[11:39] <RG-lz1dev> yeah, the wide angles is excellent
[11:39] <Darkside> kokey: uhh, you can't do PSK..
[11:39] <Darkside> it only does FSK
[11:39] <RG-lz1dev> at 45 degress you capture directly underneat and edge ;)
[11:40] <kokey> yeah I suppose any way to trick it into changing phase would be crap
[11:40] <cuddykid> RG-lz1dev: yep :)
[11:41] <cuddykid> common David - email me my permission!
[11:41] <RG-lz1dev> cuddykid: can they do 1080p ?
[11:41] <cuddykid> RG-lz1dev: yep
[11:41] <fsphil> I've given up with DM this year
[11:41] <cuddykid> @ 30 fps
[11:42] <cuddykid> fsphil: DM has actually been really good the past couple of times
[11:42] <cuddykid> usually leaves it until last min though
[11:42] <fsphil> the last minute for me was two weeks ago :)
[11:42] <cuddykid> :(
[11:42] <fsphil> I'll have to do a pico though
[11:42] <cuddykid> fsphil: do you ever call him up? Sometimes that gets him moving :P
[11:43] <kokey> yeah just fill it with something lighter than hydrogen
[11:43] <fsphil> nah I'm not great on the phone
[11:46] <navrac_work> costyn - sorry didnt see your message - the earlier (rev0.3) version document registers that were removed on later ones
[11:46] <Laurenceb> i think you could do psk with an rfm22b
[11:46] <costyn> navrac_work: ah
[11:46] <Laurenceb> the problem is that you have limited tunability
[11:47] <Laurenceb> due to the fractional N pll
[11:47] <navrac_work> rfm22b minimum step 156 hz
[11:47] <Laurenceb> but in manual mode with very good timing it should work
[11:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:47] <Laurenceb> maybe use pwm to retune it
[11:47] <Laurenceb> time a pulse to give 180degree shift
[11:47] <navrac_work> talking of which my crystals havent turned up again
[11:48] <Laurenceb> - pulse duration
[11:49] <kokey> sounds like it will be a bit of a feat
[11:49] <kokey> that said, there's probably easier improvement that can be made in manual mode using better FSK than RTTY
[11:50] <kokey> but maybe I'll just play with sticking to RTTY, but let it pack things in binary and with FEC
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[14:30] <cuddykid> oh DM - give me my notam!
[14:31] <cuddykid> going to have to call him I think, this is pushing it
[14:32] <cuddykid> he's on the job :D
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[14:36] <gonzo__> or just let it ride?
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[15:42] <W0OTM> Hello World
[15:43] <Laurenceb> cruel world
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[16:24] <fsphil> ot, anyone bought anything from 13cm.co.uk?
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[16:39] <craag> fsphil: I bought a comtech 23cm rx from there.
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[16:41] <craag> Arrived quickly, was well-packaged. Has only displayed a few trivial normal-for-comtech issues.
[16:42] <fsphil> ah, thanks. the site seemed to be having lots of issues for a while there (php errors, ssl certificate expired)
[16:43] <fsphil> fancy trying some atv between here and another guy in the club
[16:44] <craag> Cool! Yeah, the store has been half-broken for as long as I can remember, but if you do get an order through it should work out.
[16:44] <fsphil> hah
[16:44] <fsphil> I'll give them a go
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[17:40] <cuddykid> could someone double check the live predictor is working for tomorrow? Thanks :) I'm guessing the guys are Randomskk DanielRichman jonsowman
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[17:45] <cuddykid> bleugh, got 'freshers flu' even though I'm not a fresher - hopefully I can pull it together just to press a few buttons and pump some Helium in :)
[17:50] <DanielRichman> yay join the club
[17:50] <DanielRichman> by 'live predictor' do you mean the predictor on spacenear.us/tracker
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[18:04] <cuddykid> DanielRichman: yep :) wasn't running the other day for some reason
[18:07] <DanielRichman> okay well
[18:07] <DanielRichman> i don't actually know how that works
[18:07] <cuddykid> no worries
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[18:15] <jonsowman> cuddykid: yeah i'll do it
[18:15] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: you don't want to know
[18:15] <cuddykid> jonsowman: cheers :)
[18:15] <DanielRichman> lol
[18:15] <jonsowman> cuddykid: where are you launching from/
[18:16] <cuddykid> jonsowman: near Worcester (Ombersley, Worcester)
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[18:16] <jonsowman> cuddykid: ombersley?
[18:16] <jonsowman> oh sorry
[18:16] <jonsowman> yes
[18:16] <cuddykid> jonsowman: yep
[18:16] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: $ get_ombersley.sh
[18:16] <jonsowman> :|
[18:17] <jonsowman> cuddykid: ok it's running, will let you know when it's done
[18:17] <cuddykid> jonsowman: many thanks
[18:17] <cuddykid> hope this pawan balloon is ok lol
[18:18] <cuddykid> going to put the whole T size cylinder in
[18:19] <jonsowman> best you can do really
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[18:22] <cuddykid> yep - payload is weighing around 900g so should be fairly normal ascent
[18:22] <jonsowman> cuddykid: what time tomorrow?
[18:22] <cuddykid> hmm, I'm hoping around 11:30
[18:22] <cuddykid> but if you've seen my previous launches - getting it off by 12:30 would be good for me :P
[18:24] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:24] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - HABE ~1130BST 13/10/12 from Worcester, XABEN36/37 ~1100BST 13/10/12 from Elsworth
[18:24] <jonsowman> that alright?
[18:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Launch Announcement: 13/10 or 14/10, Worcester, 434.650"
[18:25] <cuddykid> yep - great, thanks jonsowman
[18:26] <cuddykid> oh hello - didn't see that RocketBoy is planning a flight..
[18:26] <cuddykid> hmm - I'm presuming the auto system thing now has ruled out freq clash? I'm on 434.650
[18:26] <jonsowman> indeed
[18:26] <cuddykid> great :D
[18:26] <jonsowman> steve is 434.075 and 434.250
[18:27] <cuddykid> good stuff
[18:27] <cuddykid> this will probably be one of my last flights on 650, switching to rfm after
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> I have been practicing my hab skills today.
[18:27] <jonsowman> ok tracker cleared
[18:27] <jonsowman> titles updated
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> up trees with a chainsaw,
[18:27] <jonsowman> blah
[18:27] <jonsowman> let me know if i've missed anything
[18:28] <cuddykid> thanks
[18:28] <jonsowman> cuddykid: what's your estimated burst alt?
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[18:34] <jonsowman> brb
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[18:59] <gb73d> http://www.arianespace.tv/
[18:59] <gb73d> live launch
[19:03] <gb73d> http://news.discovery.com/space/house-sized-asteroid-to-buzz-earth-today-121012.html
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[19:14] <gb73d> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19925038
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[19:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] LAUNCH ANNOUNCEMENT XABEN-36"
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[19:43] <cuddykid> jonsowman: hmm, around 32km
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[19:46] <jonsowman> cuddykid: ok
[19:46] <jonsowman> predictor is set for 32km
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[19:58] <cuddykid> thanks
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[20:23] Nick change: MrScienceMan -> RG-lz1dev
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[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:59] <SpeedEvil> hello
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> hello
[21:06] <x-f> hello
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> weekend!
[21:07] <clem__> yay!
[21:08] <x-f> so it has come to this
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> sparkfun has some new sensors
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> but most of them are for use in water
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> suits the UK climate.
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:45] <fsphil> friday night and I'm ... hacking a raspberry pi
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:59] <x-f> and i'm trying to figure out how to use RTL SDR on a Mac
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[22:16] <fsphil> ping craag
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[22:40] <M-Kat> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LPC4357FET256,551/568-9603-ND/3477068
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[23:07] <M-Kat> attn SpeedEvil
[23:07] <M-Kat> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/openecosys/index.php?title=VUE32
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[23:52] <SpeedEvil> neat
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> unfortunately, no drivong'licwnce
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> nevermind cash
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> neat though
[00:00] --- Sat Oct 13 2012