highaltitude.log.20121007

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[00:11] <vk5fsck> does anyone know how long off till horus launch?
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[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> HEY it's Niels Bohr's 127th birthday!
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[00:50] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: Waiting for Terry to get a head-start before we release the balloon. #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/254745365117534209]
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[00:58] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/GjyUnEkq Waiting... #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/254747575155040256]
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[01:22] <vk5fsck> does anyone know what going on with the horus launch?
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[01:30] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: Launch! #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/254755649991344128]
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[01:35] <Darkside> well
[01:35] <Darkside> we're moving
[01:35] <Darkside> yay
[01:35] <vk5gr> horus chase 2 online
[01:37] <Darkside> im pulling the latest wind data to spacenearus
[01:37] <Darkside> then i'll pull it down to here
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> :-)
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[01:40] <Darkside> still getting into the cutdown nicely
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> so, landing is 3 days time in the med?
[01:41] <Darkside> lol
[01:41] <Darkside> no
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> hot wire cut down?
[01:42] <Darkside> yup
[01:43] <SpeedEvil> what's estimated time?
[01:43] <Darkside> not long lol
[01:43] <Darkside> i'm going to cut it at 10km or so
[01:44] <vk5gr> its a pity to cut itn down darkside - at that ascent rate it might fly quite well if it made it out of the jet stream and into the reverse stream back west
[01:45] <Darkside> it won't get above 25km
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> some sort of seperate rx on the balloon?
[01:45] <Darkside> it needs to go above 30km to get into the westerly winds
[01:45] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: yes
[01:45] <Darkside> see my talk at the UKHAS conference
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> I haven't seen those. been concentrating on deeply annoying offiialdpm.
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> officialdom.
[01:54] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: #projecthorus is flying now 434.075 300baud RTTY telemetry [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/254761507911528448]
[01:55] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: #projecthorus check our progress on http://t.co/jRWpXSWJ [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/254761770592399360]
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[02:03] <Darkside> lol
[02:03] <Darkside> balloon speed is ridiculous
[02:03] <Darkside> 220kph..
[02:06] <SpeedEvil> yikes
[02:06] <SpeedEvil> 264
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> mad, touching 300
[02:08] <Darkside> guys
[02:08] <Darkside> 'm about to cut it
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> good luck!
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> voltage drop
[02:10] <Darkside> CUTDOWN
[02:10] <Darkside> battery dropped to 1123mv
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> woo!
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> I was going to say that's a big chute - but it's cut down a lot sooner than normal burst, so I guess not really
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[02:15] <Darkside> vk5gr: ping
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[02:21] <SpeedEvil> looking good!
[02:21] <griffonbot> @Mark_In_Geelong: RT @vk5gr: #projecthorus check our progress on http://t.co/jRWpXSWJ [http://twitter.com/Mark_In_Geelong/status/254768344966782976]
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[02:25] <juxta_mobile> ping Darkside, you've given us a bit of work to do to catch this one
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[02:30] <Darkside> juxta_mobile: sorry
[02:30] <Darkside> net issues back here
[02:30] <daveake> cutdown worked then?
[02:30] <Darkside> yep
[02:30] <Darkside> like a charm
[02:30] <daveake> nice one
[02:31] <daveake> I promised myself I'd stay away from #HA whilst on my hols, but here I am :p
[02:31] <Darkside> hahaha
[02:31] <daveake> only in thre usa ... http://twitpic.com/b1r11y
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[02:42] <Darkside> almost landed
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[02:47] <SpeedEvil> guess so.
[02:47] <SpeedEvil> is that ground cover grass?
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[02:50] <SpeedEvil> oooh. is that a ground position...
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[03:08] <Darkside> juxta2: how goes it
[03:15] <Darkside> aha, i see uoy heading into the field
[03:22] <Darkside> ground position
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[03:46] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: #projecthorus Horus29 has landed 60km east of Bow Hill - all recovered OK [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/254789893950156800]
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[04:25] <vk5gr> ping darkside
[04:25] <Darkside> hey vk5gr
[04:25] <vk5gr> did you guys get enough meat and beer for terry and co too?
[04:25] <Darkside> chris took all his bloody cables with him, so i can't set up his shack :(
[04:25] <Darkside> yep
[04:25] <Darkside> we have lots of sausages and bread
[04:25] <vk5gr> othrwise terry can top into bow hill too
[04:25] <Darkside> and onions
[04:25] <Darkside> and beer
[04:25] <vk5gr> cool
[04:26] <Darkside> whats your eta?
[04:26] <Darkside> not long i see
[04:26] <vk5gr> tomato saucee?
[04:26] <Darkside> yeah we have that
[04:26] <Darkside> and mustard, etc
[04:26] <Darkside> and lots of pale ale
[04:26] <vk5gr> just reacjhed the bitumen
[04:27] <vk5gr> how is the nextg signal? has he got his repeater running?
[04:27] <Darkside> yeah its running
[04:27] <Darkside> its tiny
[04:28] <Darkside> can't work out hiw wifi network though
[04:28] <Darkside> he changed the password, and i can't get an IP when connecting via cable
[04:28] <vk5gr> no idea
[04:30] <Darkside> we're putting the sausages on now
[04:36] <Darkside> you're going to get here right on time
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[04:41] <vk5cp> anyone from AREG still here?
[04:57] <Darkside> hey
[04:57] <Darkside> vk5cp:
[04:57] <Darkside> we're at the shack
[04:57] <Darkside> BBQing
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[09:02] <gonzo_mob> just at the batc meeting. there is a demo of the rtl dongles. the guy is rxing a hab! y
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[09:03] <Dan-K2VOL> haha nice gonzo
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[09:03] <gonzo_mob> didnt know there was one flying today
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[09:13] <fsphil> anyone else receiving it?
[09:21] <number10> where fsphil ?
[09:25] <gonzo_mob> talk was by m0dny who i think is one of us. so poss it was just running locally as demo
[09:25] <Darkside> probably was
[09:26] <gonzo_mob> been busy lately so not kept up on pending launches
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[10:17] <mfa298> craag is m0dny
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[10:27] <craag> Hello
[10:27] <craag> Yep, demo, needed a signal source.
[10:27] <craag> Not launching.
[10:27] <craag> (As much as I'd like to)
[10:28] <Darkside> is there a register of UK amateur licences, searchable by name?
[10:28] <Darkside> not by callsign..
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[10:28] <mfa298> not sure.
[10:28] <Darkside> in australia the telecomms regulator has a searchable database
[10:28] <Darkside> which is bloody useful
[10:28] <Darkside> dunno if ofcom has anything similar
[10:28] <mfa298> qrz.com works for some people.
[10:29] <Darkside> the story is, i applied for a UK amateur licence
[10:29] <mfa298> rsgb do a callbook but you have to pay for it and I'm not sure what fomats its in these days
[10:29] <Darkside> and i'm not in the UK at the moment :P
[10:29] <Darkside> so the letter will be arriving at the university of bath, and i won;t be there to read it
[10:31] <mfa298> if you created an account on the ofcom site to request the license you might see some stuff on there. I don't know much of how that works these days.
[10:31] <craag> gonzo_mob: Needed a signal source, had a payload lying around ;)
[10:31] <number10> If you are interested because you want a particular call sign. I dont know how it works for your application Darkside, but in the UK when you pass you can search for available call signs
[10:31] <Darkside> i didn't create an account
[10:31] <Darkside> had to do this by mail
[10:31] <Darkside> and i didn't specify a callsign, though i shoudl have
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[10:32] <MrScienceMan> are there different classes in the UK ?
[10:32] <number10> well you will probably just get issued one - same as a french engineer at work.
[10:33] <number10> there is foundation intermediate and full MrScienceMan
[10:33] <number10> power limits on each
[10:33] <MrScienceMan> ofc
[10:33] <Dan-K2VOL> hola
[10:33] <number10> hi
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[10:38] <MrScienceMan> number10: does the licence expire?
[10:40] <mfa298> MrScienceMan: it has to be renewed at least every five years, but it's free
[10:40] <mfa298> I think it's just a check that the details are still correct and your still there.
[10:41] <gonzo_mob> craag, good talk. ta
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[10:42] <craag> gonzo_mob: Cheers, first time I've done a talk to that many people.. plus a live stream..
[10:42] <MrScienceMan> mfa298: coz here, it doesnt expire and you dont have to renew it
[10:42] <MrScienceMan> and there are two classes
[10:45] <gonzo_mob> the live demo worked well
[10:45] <gonzo_mob> always a risky thing
[10:45] <mfa298> I've got a feeling ofcom might call it a lifetime license, but it will lapse if you dont confirm your details are still accurate from time to time.
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[10:50] <fsphil> there was a live stream?
[10:50] <craag> fsphil: There was. Recording will be ftped up later today I believe.
[10:51] <fsphil> will check it out later
[10:51] <fsphil> what was the event?
[10:52] <craag> British Amateur Television Club Convention.
[10:55] <jonsowman> That looks great
[10:55] <jonsowman> @
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[11:08] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone mange pdf papers for research?
[11:09] <Darkside> Mendley.
[11:09] <Darkside> Mendeley*
[11:09] <Dan-K2VOL> In my research I feel like I'm in the bottom of a black hole with papers crossing the event horizon at an exponentially increasing rate.
[11:09] <Darkside> it's awesome
[11:09] <Darkside> use Mendeley.
[11:09] <Dan-K2VOL> I have used mendeley for some time,
[11:10] <Dan-K2VOL> but I had to move away from it due to it's instability and poor device syncing reliability
[11:10] <Dan-K2VOL> though it's got the best group sharing
[11:10] <Darkside> ahh
[11:10] <Dan-K2VOL> which I really miss
[11:10] <Dan-K2VOL> and the very good citation info detection from PDFs
[11:11] <Darkside> i love how it can pull paper info from google scholar
[11:11] <Darkside> also google scholar is bloody awesome
[11:11] <Dan-K2VOL> now I'm on Papers2, which is pretty, and stable, and fast, and actually pulls papers from many more sources, but it's export feature is lousy
[11:12] <Dan-K2VOL> mendeley will bundle a folder of PDFs with a bibtex file for you to send to people
[11:12] <Dan-K2VOL> but papers seems to just make a bibtex file with hard full links to my hard drive!
[11:16] <Dan-K2VOL> are you back in australia darkside?
[11:16] <Darkside> yes
[11:16] <Darkside> did a launch today :-)
[11:16] <Darkside> only a short one though, cut it down at 11km to avoid having to drive interstate
[11:16] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[11:17] <Darkside> i want to start doing pico floaters
[11:17] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm thinking of doing a pico launch from france this week, but I'm afraid there's no listeners in souther france
[11:17] <Darkside> try and send them to our ham bretheren in the eastern states
[11:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[11:17] <Darkside> the trick will be getting the people to track it!
[11:17] <Dan-K2VOL> exactly
[11:17] <Dan-K2VOL> maybe we need to start making kits of the receivers shown at the conference!
[11:18] <Darkside> heh
[11:18] <Darkside> well, we have plenty of amateur radio operators here willing to help
[11:18] <Darkside> they just need to be notified in advance
[11:18] <Dan-K2VOL> box them up with DL-FLDIGI on a raspberry pi
[11:18] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[11:18] <Darkside> fldigi doesn't work nicely on a rpi i think
[11:18] <Dan-K2VOL> aw that's too bad, it would be nice to have an embedded listener
[11:19] <Darkside> and using one of those TV tuner SDRs + fldigi is not going to happen
[11:19] <Dan-K2VOL> really
[11:19] <Darkside> yeah
[11:19] <Darkside> not enough processing power
[11:19] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes
[11:19] <Darkside> in my case, i'm likely going to be helped by a few people with ridiculous setups
[11:19] <Dan-K2VOL> well RTTY is pretty old fashioned, it can be decoded with analog components :-P
[11:19] <Darkside> like, gigantic yagi arrays for moonbounce work
[11:19] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[11:20] <Darkside> we have enough friends in the eastern states to help track right to the east coast
[11:20] <Darkside> .. if it floats the right way :-)
[11:20] <Darkside> australia is a good place for these tests i think
[11:20] <Darkside> launch in summer when there's no clouds :-)
[11:21] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm are you good with programming URIs darkside?
[11:22] <Darkside> er
[11:22] <Dan-K2VOL> that is nice to not have clouds
[11:22] <Darkside> probably not
[11:22] <Dan-K2VOL> haha well, could you give me a little opinion on a URL format?
[11:22] <Darkside> nope :P
[11:22] <Darkside> not a web programmer at all
[11:22] <Dan-K2VOL> aw ok
[11:22] <Darkside> ask Randomskk or DanielRichman
[11:23] <Darkside> i need to go eat something lest i collapse
[11:37] <Dan-K2VOL> thx mark
[11:38] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh I hate regex
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[11:38] <Dan-K2VOL> I would pay for a service that let me chat with someone and they would build a regex for me, I'd pay by the regex for that
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[12:52] <cuddykid> anyone used this before? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/301
[12:53] <jonsowman> EEPROM chips are all much of a muchness
[12:53] <jonsowman> you can get cheaper if you don't need that much storage
[12:53] <jonsowman> what are you using it for?
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[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> why does OSIRIS say "Last Message: Oh no... Not again..."?
[13:04] <bertrik> HHGTTG reference I guess
[13:04] <fsphil> yea
[13:05] <fsphil> if you can figure out why it said that, then we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> probably there was some sort of malfunction that had occurred in an earlier flight
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[13:21] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[13:21] <Randomskk> hi james
[13:23] <jcoxon> hey
[13:23] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[13:25] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
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[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> yay I finally got dl-fldigi to run I think with the help of PulseAudio
[13:31] <fsphil> what was wrong with it before?
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah I never got it to listen to the line-in before
[13:31] <fsphil> ah
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> I only had pulse, default, sysdefault and two Intel devices in that list
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> and neither of them worked, so I tried PulseAudio and first gave it a song that i played on the VLC player
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> that worked
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:38] <fsphil> does that work with audio coming in through line-in though?
[13:39] <cuddykid> jonsowman: logging all the strings ($$HABE&..)
[13:40] <cuddykid> looked at my old txt file logs, they come out around 70kb
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[13:51] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, good question I am currently looking for my cable to try it
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[13:55] <fsphil> crap, the Borg have reached earth! http://www.uk.amsat.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TechEdSat_F-1_FITSAT-1_orbit_the_Earth.jpg
[13:56] <fsphil> (not really, but some very cool pics of cubesats being released from the ISS: http://www.uk.amsat.org/?p=10804 )
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander> WHOA so close to the solar panels
[13:58] <fsphil> so close to eachother
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, I saw something funny yesterday when watching the royal institution christmas lectures of 1991 by richard dawkins
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> he brought several computer programs that simulated the "breeding" of spiderwebs etc.
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> and when he asked who in the audience would like to try the program, everyone wanted to do that
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:00] <Lunar_Lander> and then when someone came forward, he asked "Did you ever use a computer with a mouse before?"
[14:00] <fsphil> hah
[14:00] <fsphil> I still have my first mouse :)
[14:00] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[14:02] <Lunar_Lander> XD richard dawkins fights bugs
[14:02] <Lunar_Lander> from 2:00 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT1vXXMsYak&feature=relmfu
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[14:19] <jonsowman> cuddykid: EEPROM isn't really good for lots of writes
[14:20] <jonsowman> have a look into FRAM
[14:20] <jonsowman> or flash
[14:20] <cuddykid> ah ok, cheers!
[14:20] <Randomskk> flash is probably best
[14:20] <Randomskk> personally I'd stick a micro SD card socket on
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[14:20] <Randomskk> and use that
[14:20] <Randomskk> you can write to them over SPI
[14:21] <Randomskk> and if you put a FAT library on the arduino you can even read them easily on your computer
[14:21] <Randomskk> makes getting the logs back out easy
[14:21] <Randomskk> plus those things are near indestructible
[14:21] <Randomskk> so you can recover data even after months submerged in sea water
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[14:22] <mclane> hi there, any dl-fldigi specialist here?
[14:22] <Randomskk> depends what you want to know
[14:22] <mclane> finally, I could catch a crash
[14:22] <Randomskk> ask your question and someone may reply at some point :P
[14:22] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[14:23] <mclane> hi lunar
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[14:24] <mclane> I have a long crash message
[14:24] <jonsowman> pastie.org
[14:27] <mclane> http://pastie.org/pastes/4927569/download
[14:28] <fsphil> pastie.org always makes me think of food
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:28] <fsphil> a crash in libcurl?
[14:29] <cuddykid> Randomskk: I've got a microSD socket on my board atm - takes up quite a bit of room though, trying to get it quite small
[14:29] <cuddykid> might do away with logging for this board
[14:31] <cuddykid> ah, I guess I could put it on the underside of the board
[14:31] <cuddykid> anyone know how to do that in eagle?
[14:32] <Randomskk> middle click with your mouse to swap top/bottom layer (while moving it)
[14:32] <Randomskk> is one way
[14:32] <Randomskk> there are many
[14:33] <cuddykid> I'll try that :D
[14:33] <cuddykid> thanks
[14:35] <cuddykid> Randomskk: is "mirror" the same thing?
[14:35] <Randomskk> yes
[14:36] <cuddykid> excellent
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[14:50] <Lunar_Lander> btw how do you like the Google Doodle for Niels Bohr?
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[14:54] <eroomde> back in the land of oxon
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[15:00] <Lunar_Lander> wb eroomde
[15:01] <eroomde> ty ll
[15:01] <eroomde> all well with you?
[15:01] <Lunar_Lander> yes thanks and with you?
[15:08] <cuddykid> looks like I've managed to shrink all the equip down to around 3x3.5cm
[15:09] <cuddykid> swapping ntx2 for rfm, neo for max, 0805 for 0603 etc :D
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[15:11] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, awesome!
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[15:15] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: well, still a bit ill
[15:15] <eroomde> and drank last night
[15:15] <eroomde> so under a bit of a cloud today
[15:15] <eroomde> but, in a happy way
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[15:15] <eroomde> enough dodgy old films on tv to keep me happy
[15:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[15:16] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[15:16] <W0OTM> habhub not working?
[15:20] <W0OTM> the predictor is not loading for me
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[15:24] <eroomde> works fine for me W0OTM
[15:24] <eroomde> just ran a pred
[15:24] <W0OTM> yeah, only worked in Safari
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[15:24] <W0OTM> didnt work in FF or Chrome
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[15:26] <futurity> Hi, Been having a nightmare with my new Ezcap. Does anyone happen to still have the software they user for it (drivers zadig and software SDR#). I think I'm using incompatible versions
[15:26] <futurity> tried on Windows & and XP and doesn't work on either
[15:27] <futurity> Is there any software that needs to be installed prior to the Zadig drivers? My Ezcap from UPU didn't come with a CD so I guess not?
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[15:38] <mfa298> futurity: I think for my rtlsdr I got the set of drivers from the rtlsdr page/group
[15:39] <mfa298> I think there was some faff with changing files around on it as well but that was several months ago so it might be better now
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[15:40] <futurity> mfa298: thanks, I'll check that out. thanks for the tip
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[15:42] <mfa298> the installer I've got is ExtIO_USRP+FCD+RTL2832 + BorIP-1.2 BETA10_Setup.exe
[15:42] <mfa298> but that's timestamped in april
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[15:44] <eroomde> poor april
[15:44] <futurity> mfa298: Hmm totally different from those mentioned on the wiki. I'll give the wiki one last try then look for the ones you've used
[15:44] <mfa298> I think this is where I got it from: http://wiki.spench.net/wiki/USRP_Interfaces
[15:45] <mfa298> I think that was a complete package that included everything you needed to make it work in HDSDR or SDR#
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[15:47] <futurity> fantastic
[15:47] <futurity> I'll give the wiki page instruction one last try in case I've done something stupid
[15:47] <futurity> if I figure it out I'll update the page
[15:48] <futurity> if not, I'll try it your suggested way and perhaps write up that method
[15:50] <mfa298> it looks like the method I used before hasn't been updated since I used it.
[15:50] <mfa298> what set of instructions are you looking at ?
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[15:54] <futurity> Just tried the ukhas wiki inststructions and its failed again
[15:54] <futurity> basically claiming that the driver isn't responding
[15:55] <futurity> ukhas,org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[15:55] <futurity> last night I thought I had it working when other was selected, only to later find out it was the microphone on the laptop
[15:56] <futurity> LOL
[15:56] <futurity> error i get is: RTL-SDR / USB is either not connected or its drivers is not working properly
[15:57] <futurity> Instructions say elect RTL-SDR / RTL2832U, but the only option I get is RTL-SDR / USB
[15:58] <mfa298> at that point the method I used might be very similar.
[15:58] <futurity> trying your method now :)
[15:59] <mfa298> I seem to recall having a lot of hassel with zadig
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[16:00] <mfa298> I'm currently trying to see if I can make the rtl-sdr work on a pi. might have to try the ukhas method on my netbook
[16:01] <fsphil> it works in the sense that you can plug it in and run rtl_tcp
[16:01] <fsphil> no chance you'll be able to use it for anything other than streaming the data elsewhere
[16:02] <futurity> I have a PI too
[16:03] <futurity> not sure if it has the power to do the processing, but would be great if it can
[16:03] <fsphil> just streaming it over the network takes about 10% cpu time :)
[16:03] <fsphil> maybe if you got the gpu involved it could demodulate
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[16:04] <mfa298> I've been surprised at some of the stuff a pi can do. I had it streaming a video file over the network the other day fairly happily
[16:05] <mfa298> it almost managed a large (20G) bluray rip. I think network might have been the limiting factor for that.
[16:05] <futurity> mfa298: ExtIO& all installed
[16:05] <futurity> selected Yes for a local copy of the dll
[16:05] <futurity> HDSDR has loaded up
[16:06] <futurity> not sure how to select the card in this interface though
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[16:07] <mfa298> I think in HDSDR you click the extio button (althoguh it might automatically open the window)
[16:07] <mfa298> I've then got "RTL tuner=e4k buf=0" set in the device hint
[16:08] <mfa298> then I think it's click create. Then click start in the HDSDR interface
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[16:09] <futurity> i think there is some ddl file copying i need to do first. Just downloading extra recommended on that page
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[16:11] <mfa298> From what I remember it worked without the extra dll but not very well.
[16:11] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[16:11] <fsphil> pong
[16:11] <futurity> trying to work out where its been installed to and where to place the librtl2832++ dll
[16:11] <futurity> many thanks for all this help BTW
[16:12] <futurity> hopping to help track payloads while at work
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[16:14] <futurity> ExtIO button is blue and nothing happens when I click on it
[16:14] <futurity> perhaps I didn't install enough of the program
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[16:15] <mfa298> it looks like the window opens automatically, on my machine it's labeled "ExtIO: Hama nano"
[16:16] <futurity> mfa298: Any idea where ExtIO_USRP.dll is. I think its missing, hence why the ExtIO button doesn't work
[16:16] <mfa298> for me it looks to be in C:\Program Files (x86)\HDSDR
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[16:17] <futurity> hmm thats where I am already and not there
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[16:17] <mfa298> that's where I seem to have zadig and a few other things installed as well.
[16:18] <futurity> I simply installed ExtIO_&.. with default options + selected HDSDR
[16:18] <futurity> oh i see
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[16:19] <futurity> it's not installed the other apps there, just seems to have put SDR there
[16:21] <futurity> lol, it seems to installed HDSDR in program files and to another local dir as well
[16:21] <futurity> just trying it
[16:23] <mfa298> using the ukhas instructions the zadig bit seems to work on my netbook. now to reboot and see if the driver worked
[16:23] <futurity> I've copied local files to the programfiles/sdr dir and now have extIO pop up :)
[16:24] <futurity> replaced the librtl...dll
[16:24] <futurity> furthest I've got so far :)
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[16:28] <futurity> doesn't like tuner=e4k or tuner=e4000
[16:28] <futurity> but it takes buf=0
[16:30] <mfa298> you might just need to put in rtl.
[16:30] <futurity> yep
[16:30] <mfa298> tuner depends on what tuner chip you have.
[16:30] <futurity> tried that and it seems to suggest ezcap tv :)
[16:30] <futurity> just need to know how to use the software now LOL
[16:31] <futurity> start button found :)
[16:32] <futurity> I have static. Fantastic :)
[16:32] <Randomskk> try tuning to a local broadcast FM station :P
[16:33] <mfa298> FM broadcast never seemed that good on hdsdr but you might here some noise.
[16:34] <mfa298> the ukhas instructions seemed to work for my with sdr#
[16:35] <mfa298> and my netbook can just about manage broadcast fm with it :D
[16:36] <mfa298> it never quite had enough cpu grunt for hdsdr using the other method
[16:38] <cuddykid> does anyone know how to "restrict" the space under uBlox so auto routing doesn't route under it?
[16:39] <Randomskk> add a rectangle to the tKeepOut layer in Eagle
[16:39] <Randomskk> but the real answer is: don't use autoroute
[16:39] <eroomde> damn i was too slow
[16:39] <eroomde> i was about to say that
[16:39] <Randomskk> the latter I imagine
[16:39] <eroomde> cuddykid: Randomskk is right
[16:39] <Randomskk> seriously don't use autoroute
[16:39] <eroomde> there is absolutely no reason to use autoroute. if you think there ism it is because you are young, and confused, and wrong
[16:39] <Randomskk> like that is my top piece of advice for people looking to start designing a PCB
[16:39] <eroomde> do not do it
[16:40] <Randomskk> I feel fairly safe in saying hobbyists should never ever autoroute
[16:40] <Randomskk> and especially never with eagle
[16:40] <eroomde> do not go silent either. if you show a pic of your board we will know
[16:40] <eroomde> just take this free advice
[16:41] <eroomde> you'll be a social outcast
[16:41] <eroomde> your cards will stop working
[16:41] <eroomde> your engine will catch fire
[16:41] <Randomskk> locusts will descend on your crops
[16:41] <eroomde> blood will come out of your taps
[16:42] <Randomskk> and, grosser still, shower.
[16:42] <eroomde> a strange marmite-like substance will trickle down from your hairline over your face
[16:43] <Randomskk> eldritch horrors of the deep will torment your dreams and creep into your waking mind
[16:43] <Randomskk> their many appendages reminiscent of the branches on your autorouted PCB
[16:44] <cuddykid> ah yes, thanks Randomskk
[16:45] <Randomskk> did... did you just blank out everything after I said about the tKeepOut layer? :P
[16:45] <cuddykid> one sec
[16:45] <futurity> mfa298: sorry had to take a call. Trying HDSDR for FM now
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> navrac / navrac_work
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> ping
[16:45] <Randomskk> you should probably read what ed and I said after that, before it's too late.
[16:46] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/IxCxd.png is it atm
[16:46] <cuddykid> yep, won't autoroute
[16:48] <Randomskk> this is the kind of thing I mean
[16:48] <Randomskk> http://www.chaosium.com/images/rudolph_news.jpg
[16:48] <Randomskk> http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/27/27510.jpg
[16:48] <Randomskk> the latter is what your PCB will look like after autorouting
[16:50] <eroomde> if it goes well
[16:51] <Randomskk> the going well is that the man in that image is not yet devoured
[16:51] <Randomskk> if it goes badly imagine a similar image but the man is no longer on this plane.
[16:51] <cuddykid> lol
[16:51] <cuddykid> does the above layout look ok?
[16:52] <Randomskk> uhm
[16:52] <Randomskk> ish
[16:52] <Randomskk> it's pretty compact
[16:52] <Randomskk> but, like
[16:52] <Randomskk> you've done a reasonably good job keeping things close together that should be
[16:52] <cuddykid> tried my best :P
[16:52] <cuddykid> I'll give it a go later and see what happens
[16:52] <eroomde> why 2 gnd pins?
[16:52] <futurity> I have FM station through my EZcap at last many thanks to mfa298
[16:53] <cuddykid> eroomde: for the hell of it - guess I could just do with one
[16:53] <Randomskk> why one?
[16:53] <Randomskk> why are they there at all in fact :P
[16:53] <Randomskk> power supply?
[16:53] <cuddykid> for breakout bits and pieces
[16:53] <Randomskk> fair enough
[16:53] <cuddykid> just for ease
[16:54] <Randomskk> hey eroomde what time of day do you think is good for a freshers meeting/presentation/thing?
[16:55] <Randomskk> we're a bit undecided between 4pm or 7pm or so.
[16:56] <eroomde> what day of the week or so?
[16:57] <Randomskk> thurs
[16:57] <navrac> hi laurenceb_
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> hi there
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> did you get the rfm22b clocked off tcxo?
[16:58] <navrac> yes
[16:58] <navrac> had to remove the crystal though
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> i see
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> what is the drift like now?
[16:59] <navrac> the drift on power up is thermal
[16:59] <navrac> the general temperature stability is good though
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> so it still drifts by 40hz?
[16:59] <navrac> hang on - just got to remember the place i upload photos too
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> imgur
[16:59] <eroomde> Randomskk: 7 if theres food
[16:59] <eroomde> 4 if not
[17:00] <Randomskk> how come?
[17:00] <Randomskk> we can readily do food
[17:01] <navrac_work> http://imgur.com/cFcIA
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[17:02] <Laurenceb_> interesting, thanks
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> is that with tcxo input?
[17:03] <navrac> yep
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> very odd that it drifts
[17:04] <navrac> brb
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> must be the slightly odd pll design combined with thermal vco drift i guess
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[17:05] <Laurenceb_> but its drifting over quite a long period
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> strange
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[17:08] <Laurenceb_> i mean from those graphs the pll will be seeing at least 10 cycles slip past it at 10MHz
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> maybe its losing pll lock
[17:10] <navrac> I agree it is very odd - after building the vctxco multipliers etc and poking at all the registers I could, the biggest improvement came from a hex head screwdriver bit resting on the chip
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> :-/
[17:11] <navrac> if you leave the tx on the drift stabilises after 25 seconds or so - its just after turning on tx you get the drift - and the longer it is off the bigger the drift
[17:12] <navrac> the tcxo sorts out the long term temperature drift
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> i havent actually read all the datasheet recently
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> all i can think to try is looking for something to adjust pll loop bandwidth
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> or maybe a bit to check for pll lock
[17:13] <navrac> the pll bandwith register is available
[17:13] <navrac> I managed to get a good 15hz shift using the vco trimming register.
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:13] <navrac> sadly only that shift though so no use for dominoex
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> what is the bandwidth set to?
[17:14] <navrac> that i cant remember
[17:14] <navrac> ive come in from the office - it will be the default in the rfm library, althoguh I dont think they set the register i was setting
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> ah
[17:17] <navrac> from memory the rfm library boots it up with settings for 2400baud gmfsk soi if I can find the spreadshhet I should be able to see what the bandwidth is set to - just need to find the spreadshhet
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> so you can trim the vco and adjust the frequency when its supposed to be locked?
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> by +-15hz
[17:21] <navrac> just +15hz
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> i see
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> thats not right
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> i cant find a pll loop bandwidth in the datasheet
[17:24] <navrac> I was using register 5ah VCO Current trimming
[17:24] <navrac> you have to use this datasheet
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:24] <navrac> http://wenku.baidu.com/view/9b09fd2258fb770bf78a5548.html
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> what is register 0x5C set to?
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> ok
[17:25] <navrac> register 58h is the pll bandwidth
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah i see now
[17:27] <navrac> not sure - default is 0e
[17:28] <navrac> Ive brought the laptop in and disconnected everything - wife wants me in the lounge so she has company while she watches tv
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> im confused..
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> would help if i understood sigma-delta stuff
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> im wondering if the drift is caused by the sigma-delta feedback divider
[17:34] <navrac> liuke wise - i hated this stuff back in uni 30years ago
[17:34] <navrac> mind you a lot of it wasnt invented then
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> but then it wouldnt be effected by the temperature
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> i dont really see how a pll can behave like this
[17:37] <navrac> easy to see it do it - cover the xtal, and blow on the si4432 and watch it drift - i wasnt joking when i said it acted as a wind speed measuring device outside
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/DeltaSigma/DeltaSigma.html
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> that kind of makes sense
[17:38] <Laurenceb_> so the but i dont see how it will allow the frequency to drift so much over longish timescales
[17:39] <navrac> nor me -
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> you got it to respond to changes in input frequency whilst it was transmitting right?
[17:42] <navrac> it would have to be pretty rubbish to take 30secs to settle - and only on power up
[17:42] <navrac> yes it jumps frequency cleanly
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> so it must be locked then
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> and quickly, with no delayed response?
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[17:45] <navrac> well it sent rtty ok
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> hmm yeah that suggests its locked nicely
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> - that was with pwm and vctcxo?
[17:47] <navrac> well that was with an xtal and a varicap to pull it as happened, ive been trying a lot of things
[17:48] <navrac> but that was very small pulling probably no more than 2ppm
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> pll must be locked then
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> all i can think of doing is trying the pll bandwidth bits
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[17:59] <navrac> I'll give that a go if i can sneak out again later
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> :D
[18:03] <navrac> given the nxt2 is more efficient , although its fixed frequency and 3.3v, Im not sure the rfm is really worth the effort.
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[18:04] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> id be tempted to make something from scratch
[18:05] <navrac> running at 1.8v on the gps and processor weight saving by needing less batteries, the weight saving of the rfm is less important. With some carefull mucking around dominoex should be possible
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> ive got it working
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> theres code on the wiki
[18:07] <navrac> yep- but apparently there were issues with it
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> the pull changes with temperature
[18:10] <navrac> trouble is with the external vctxco and frequency multiplier is that it uses quite abit of current
[18:20] <navrac> im going to try a 26mhz vctcxo - see if the rfm will lock onto that
[18:20] <navrac> thats only 2mA
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[18:56] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid
[18:56] <cuddykid> hiya WillDuckworth :) I was just about to text you actually
[18:56] <cuddykid> doing a launch next weekend
[18:56] <cuddykid> hopefully saturday
[18:57] <WillDuckworth> oooh - good stuff
[18:57] <WillDuckworth> from the normal place?
[18:57] <cuddykid> yep :)
[18:57] <WillDuckworth> i've got a little bit of gas left if you need it?
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[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi SamSilverBed
[18:58] <cuddykid> will be ok, going to order a fresh tank - thanks anyway!
[18:58] <SamSilverBed> Hi LL
[18:58] <SamSilverBed> made any new videos?
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[18:58] <WillDuckworth> cool - any chance of a piggyback (if i get it sorted!)???!?!?
[18:59] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: pm :)
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[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> SamSilverBed, no
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[19:11] <AL0I_Todd> Hi. I was hoping to get a little help with this latest dl-fldigi release for Windows. No problems running 3.20.29.r115.1 but I don't show up on Spacenear.us in latest release. I also don't have Lat/Long entry fields in Operator setup screen. Is this a known issue?
[19:12] <craag> AL0I_Todd: You should download the new version: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> omfg
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2012/10/02/weather-balloon-payload-that-almost-guides-itself-back-to-you/
[19:13] <craag> It's based on 3.21.50
[19:13] <AL0I_Todd> Have tried installing in both WinXP and Win7 with same results. Also made a point of deleting user files in dl-fldigi.files and NBEMS.files, but no go. Am using 3.21.50 release.
[19:13] <craag> Oh sorry I misread.
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[19:14] <craag> Lat/lon are in the 'Location' tab under the 'DL Client' tab.
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> on second thoughts thats just spinning badly
[19:15] <AL0I_Todd> Has there been any TCP/UDP or port changes since 3.20.29.r115.1? Might need to open firewall if so.
[19:15] <craag> AL0I_Todd: See my last, you will need to set lat/lon/alt before appearing.
[19:17] <fsphil> AL0I_Todd: the lat/lng fields are in DL Client -> Location
[19:18] <AL0I_Todd> Yeah I see them. Already entered as 36.2097 Lat and -81.6981 Long. Altitude is purple and empty.
[19:18] <craag> AL0I_Todd: Put in something for the altitude. purple is bad.
[19:19] <fsphil> yea, even 0 if you don't know it
[19:20] <AL0I_Todd> I will try that. Was also getting "WARNING! couldn't set stationary location: invalid float" message on startup, so maybe that is why.
[19:21] <craag> AL0I_Todd: Yep, that's it complaining it can't convert 'empty' to a float.
[19:22] <craag> It's stumped me before, never used to be an issue in the old one I don't think.
[19:22] <AL0I_Todd> So perhaps the initial config should have folks entering that bit of data as well? I'm on the map now.
[19:22] <AL0I_Todd> Thanks for the assistance.
[19:23] <craag> AL0I_Todd: I will put it on the wiki now, glad it worked in the end.
[19:23] <AL0I_Todd> Or perhaps just set an initial zero value in the field?
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[19:27] <AL0I_Todd> Actually, the instructions here ( http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=336 ) are misleading since you don't really see Lat/Long/Altitude entry fields in initial configuration any more. At least I didn't.
[19:28] <craag> Ah ok. I've just updated the UKHAS article here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?&#dl-fldigi
[19:31] <craag> I don't have edit access to the Project Horus guide, but hopefully someone will update it once they've seen this.
[19:34] <AL0I_Todd> Good evening and thanks again!
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[20:19] <G0DJA> Is there a 'low altitude' group for people who are not aiming to get above, say, 10km
[20:20] <Randomskk> 10km is still high altitude compared to like, deep sea diving
[20:20] <Randomskk> the name is relative
[20:21] <G0DJA> But, on here, 10k is a bit 'low' isn't it?
[20:22] <Randomskk> meh
[20:22] <Randomskk> yes-and-no
[20:22] <Randomskk> valid to chat about
[20:23] <G0DJA> I'm rapidly reconsidering my capability - a "2m" payload, with a foil (or two) balloons and commercial He gas isn't goint to get as far up as a Howee and a lot of string...
[20:24] <G0DJA> So, "high" it will not be
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[20:34] <navrac> probably 5000-6000m
[20:36] <G0DJA> 5 to 6k might be a target - but wont get those photos that the Howee users do
[20:37] <G0DJA> Is there a lower limit?
[20:37] <Randomskk> not really
[20:37] <navrac> well one of min e only got to 35m
[20:38] <navrac> there are 100g howee's that get to a decent height though - they fit just under the 2m rule - but need a light camera
[20:39] <Randomskk> I really really doubt the 100g hwoyees fit under 2m
[20:39] <navrac> burst diameter 1.8m
[20:39] <navrac> apparently
[20:39] <Randomskk> lies
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[20:41] <G0DJA> I'm trying to fit all under 2m to avoid having to send a notice anyway
[20:41] <navrac> i think theres some details on the random aerospace site
[20:42] <Randomskk> I'd stick with foil to be sure it was <2m
[20:42] <Randomskk> I mean, no one will exactly go measure it
[20:42] <Randomskk> but I suspect if you filled one at ground level until it burst you'd find it got larger than 2m
[20:42] <Randomskk> caveat: I haven't done this
[20:43] <Randomskk> but I did launch one and it was not far off 2m when it went up and it got pretty high.
[20:44] <navrac> well if anyone would stick by the rules its steve and if he's ok with it I am
[20:44] <Randomskk> steve launched one just before I did mine
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[20:44] <Randomskk> those are the only two I know that have been launched
[20:44] <Randomskk> he didn't know what altitude they'd burst at either
[20:44] <Randomskk> and I think he actually NOTAMd his first one?
[20:44] <Randomskk> what diameter*
[20:45] <Randomskk> both of them went higher than is possible if they'd burst at 2m
[20:45] <Randomskk> like, there was a quantity of helium in that balloon I let go of
[20:45] <Randomskk> and I know what altitude it reached
[20:45] <navrac> and the 2m really is about the area used in commercial aeroplane heights - if not it should be
[20:45] <Randomskk> yes, yes, I agree
[20:45] <Randomskk> and I'm sure it's perfectly _safe_
[20:45] <Randomskk> but that doesn't mean it's _legal_
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> hi navrac
[20:46] <chris_99> is the only way to get a reciever and transmitter for a balloon to use both an NTX2 and NRX2
[20:46] <G0DJA> Oh, so I can't even confirm that my balloon wont be more than 2m (even without payload) then?
[20:46] <Randomskk> G0DJA: foil ones are fine
[20:46] <Randomskk> they don't expand
[20:46] <Randomskk> a 100g hwoyee is more dubious
[20:46] <Randomskk> you could use it. it might be okay.
[20:46] <G0DJA> Ah
[20:46] <Randomskk> no one will know.
[20:46] <Randomskk> but, yea.
[20:46] <Randomskk> personally I am dubious they reliably stay less than 2m
[20:46] <navrac> there are lots of legal things that arent safe and vice versa - i think its best just to ignore the finer details over its diameter at 31k
[20:47] <navrac> of course if someone with a calulato rnew the lift and the final height, some maths might indicate it could possibly be a little large
[20:48] <navrac> hi lunar_landar
[20:49] <navrac> chris_99 no you might get to 1000m with that combo - you use an ntx2 for tx and then use a proper receiver
[20:49] <chris_99> ah ok, that makes sense, cheers navrac
[20:50] <navrac> no problem - and 70cm receiver that does ssb will do the job -
[20:50] <navrac> yupiteru 9000 handheld scanner is probably the cheapest about £80 on ebay
[20:50] <chris_99> you mean like a scanner?
[20:51] <chris_99> yeah i've got a scanner, but i'd use that on the ground
[20:51] <navrac> yes as long as it does ssb like the yupiteru
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[20:51] <navrac> the scanner stays on the ground - you just send up the ntx2
[20:51] <chris_99> yeah i'm talking about communicating with the balloon
[20:51] <navrac> oh you want to send data both ways
[20:52] <chris_99> yeah, that's why i was taling about the nrx2
[20:52] <navrac> in that case the best method is to use the rfm22b
[20:52] <navrac> as it can tx and rx and is more sensitive than the nt stuff
[20:53] <navrac> Ive done 40km from ground to balloon with rfm to rfm and a handheld yagi - but darkside has got 100's of km by using amateur radio transmitters
[20:53] <chris_99> hmm, that uses 433MHz
[20:53] <chris_99> nice
[20:54] <navrac> I uplinked at 458MHz and downlinked at 432
[20:54] <chris_99> i guess you're not in the UK then
[20:55] <navrac> no i am - there is a little known bit of bandwidth around there that is legal in the uk
[20:55] <navrac> are yes model aeroplane control 100mW EIRP I think
[20:55] <navrac> might be a bit out on the frequency - it was a year or so ago
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[20:56] <navrac> 459MHz
[20:57] <chris_99> oh yeah it's either 144 or 433MHz is it that's legal
[20:57] <chris_99> oh no apparently 144 isn't lega
[20:57] <chris_99> *legal
[20:58] <G0DJA> 434MHz RX I can do
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[20:58] <navrac> 434 is an open band
[20:59] <G0DJA> It's the balloon bit that I'm learning about
[20:59] <navrac> I think the good thing about this hobby is you are learning all the time
[21:00] <G0DJA> Yes, frequencies I'm good at - G0DJA is my Amateur Radio callsign, so I hope I know about that
[21:00] <navrac> Im trying to get the little rfm22b to tx something more interesting than rtty
[21:01] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:01] <navrac> at the same time as ironing together a superpressure
[21:01] <navrac> evening all
[21:01] <navrac> evening james even
[21:02] <G0DJA> Receiving I thought I wa good at, until the FLDigi issues, but I didn't count them as *my* problems, just inconveniences..
[21:02] <navrac> yep I know what you mean
[21:03] <navrac> my problems are water in the antenna feed or the preamp oscillating
[21:03] <navrac> the rest are inconveniences caused by other peoples errors
[21:05] <navrac> jcoxon - after two days of fitting external oscillators, frequency multipliers, digging around in hidden registers on the rfm22b I found the drift on starting tx on the rfm was best solved with the aid of the end of a hex screwdriver bit
[21:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:07] <jcoxon> what were you grounding?
[21:08] <DrLuke> you because you were naughty!
[21:08] <navrac> hold on
[21:09] <navrac> http://imgur.com/cFcIA
[21:09] <jcoxon> so is it just warming up
[21:10] <navrac> Ive been trying to modulate the rfm22 so it can do 15.6Hz shifts using an external vctcxo
[21:10] <navrac> yep, pure and simle thermal
[21:10] <jcoxon> so increasing the thermal mass makes a big difference
[21:11] <navrac> yep - the problem is the rfm boards dont follow the si4432 datasheet so i can only add mass to one side
[21:11] <navrac> the designguide on the datasheet that is
[21:12] <navrac> id assumed it was the xtal that drifted, but after fitting it with the external clock it still drifts in
[21:13] <navrac> I was also locking the rfm22b to the ppm output on the ublox to stop it drifting at all
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[21:13] <navrac> that works - but cost 9mA
[21:14] <navrac> (after the thermal warmup)
[21:14] <jcoxon> cause the GPS stays on?
[21:15] <navrac> no - i was running the gps in low power mode 10hz - once it has partial lock (time ) you can make the ublox give out quite a good 6MHZ output on the ppm pin which i stuck through a cheapo x5 frequency multiplier - that used the current
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[21:16] <jcoxon> a lot of work :-)
[21:17] <navrac> it is if it adds current consumption! but now its done its a simple one chip addition to stabilise an rfm
[21:17] <navrac> for dominoex its a bit harder - but ive got that down to 2mA and two chips
[21:19] <navrac> the missing piece was the stopping the start up drift so you dont have to waste 10 seconds putting out carrier or preamble after the tx has been off
[21:20] <navrac> with domino you can save 10mA on tx power and txing once per minute all at 1.8Vshould give 36+hrs
[21:20] <jcoxon> navracplease document!
[21:20] <navrac> of one AA
[21:20] <navrac> will do - although i am notoriously bad at it!
[21:21] <navrac> I have been discussing it and picking the brains of people on channel so most know how im doing it and what im using
[21:21] <navrac> does that count?
[21:22] <fsphil> not really :)
[21:22] <fsphil> I need to work on my documentation skills too
[21:23] <navrac> i understood your domino code!
[21:24] <navrac> the documentation on that i think said ' This is the blink led program do demonstrate the dimming of an led'
[21:25] <fsphil> lol
[21:25] <fsphil> likely
[21:25] <navrac> better than mine where i copy and paste lines that say //turn tx on
[21:25] <jcoxon> fsphil, binaries run on the gumstix
[21:25] <fsphil> result!
[21:26] <navrac> but actually the do something comletely different
[21:26] <jcoxon> no radio
[21:26] <jcoxon> but still
[21:26] <fsphil> is it putting out sound?
[21:26] <navrac> this was your 2 day compile?
[21:26] <jcoxon> its all wired up for the radio bit
[21:26] <jcoxon> nah
[21:26] <jcoxon> that was an cross compiled image
[21:27] <jcoxon> these are the small binaries that i can now compile with it :-)
[21:27] <navrac> what are you trying to do? as in the end result
[21:29] <fsphil> brb, gotta walk the mutt
[21:29] <jcoxon> well we are working on a new Pegasus flight
[21:30] <jcoxon> its going to do RTTY, SSDV and SSTV
[21:30] <jcoxon> on a long duration high alt flight over europe
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> when is Eurus 3 again?
[21:31] <navrac> <bloody hell> excuse the swearing - not something simple then!
[21:32] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, i'll be launching weekend of 20th october
[21:32] <jcoxon> navrac, well
[21:32] <jcoxon> we are using an old gumstix
[21:32] <jcoxon> so we have all teh code ready
[21:33] <eroomde> evensong
[21:33] <jcoxon> well the binaries are now on teh gumstix
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah jcoxon
[21:33] <jcoxon> just need to add the radio to check they work
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[21:48] <Laurenceb_> navrac: the rfm22b behaviour is confusing me a lot
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> im out of ideas as to whats happening
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> ill talk to a few people and try and get some ideas
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> navrac: you are keeping the pll running all the time right?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> think i asked yesterday
[21:50] <navrac> yes
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> ill try and find some experts to consult :P
[21:51] <navrac> also the higher the power the bigger the drift - so it does seem thermal - but what is drifting i have no idea - unless its supply related to the vco or similar
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah it does seem to be vco
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> but i dont understand how that is possible
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> as it should be locked
[21:52] <navrac> nor me
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> does it always start at the same frequency?
[21:52] <navrac> i cant believe it can take 20 seconds to get lockback worst case
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> or end at the same frequency.. or neither?
[21:52] <navrac> pretty much so
[21:52] <navrac> it jumps back
[21:52] <navrac> so
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> the final frequency is consistent?
[21:53] <navrac> \
[21:53] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[21:53] <navrac> start slightly varies but the end is pretty consistent
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> wait you are saying there is a sawtooth pattern?
[21:54] <navrac> yep - no down on the sawtooth as thats when the tx is off
[21:54] <navrac> \
[21:54] <navrac> .
[21:54] <navrac> \
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> oh got you
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:55] <navrac> ( ignore the dot irc wont send just spaces)
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> all i can think is that the datasheet is a complete lie
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> but i see "MASH I I I " in there
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> thats a PRN sigma-delta algorithm for fractional N PLL
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> so it looks legit
[21:57] <navrac> I think silabs are aware as they mention the chip has to be placed on top of a set of vias for cooling
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> sigma-delta fractional N PLL shouldn't do that, certainly not if its always locked
[21:57] <navrac> since it doesnt run even slightly warm at full power...
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[21:58] <navrac> exactly and i cant believe its not locked
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> it dissipates about 150mw
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> theres no external PLL related pins are there?
[21:58] Action: Laurenceb_ checks datasheet
[21:58] <navrac> dont remember any
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> aha
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> register 0x02
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> 2 lockdet Synthesizer Lock Detect Status.
[22:01] <navrac> I'll check that in the morning and see if it reckons its locked
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[22:03] <jcoxon> fsphil, it works
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> Frequency Error Status. might provide useful info too
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> do you use cps[1:0] to turn tx on/off?
[22:07] <navrac> no - register 7 from memory
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[22:09] <fsphil> brilliant jcoxon
[22:09] <fsphil> that was oddly easy :)
[22:09] <navrac> toggle it from 03 to 08
[22:11] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:11] <jcoxon> took me a while to get the settings all set
[22:11] <fsphil> yes it's tricky getting the shift exact
[22:11] <jcoxon> got a correctly formated jpeg lying around?
[22:12] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv2/images/2012-10-07--23-11-22-HADIE-3C.jpeg
[22:13] <fsphil> the rules are basically resolution is a multiple of 16 both ways, not greyscale and not interleaved
[22:15] <fsphil> for decoding you'll need to have the crc-32 commits
[22:15] <jcoxon> going to try sstv
[22:15] <fsphil> I tried rtty on the pi, it sort of worked
[22:15] <fsphil> the filtering kinda spoils it
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> also page 136 in the silabs datasheet
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> 27 pll_lock_detect PLL lock detect
[22:16] <jcoxon> well it sounds correct
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> you can output on a gpio
[22:16] <fsphil> yea it's a great sound
[22:17] <jcoxon> awesome
[22:17] <jcoxon> okay so thats the radio work
[22:17] <jcoxon> working*
[22:19] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> cya
[22:19] <fsphil> wonder if it would be difficult to have it detect night-time from the photos
[22:19] <fsphil> although a totally dark image will transmit really quickly
[22:22] <jcoxon> time would work
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[22:24] <fsphil> I'm not sure if the cameras would be sensitive enough to see street lights
[22:24] <fsphil> although power saving would be more important
[22:33] <jcoxon> night all
[22:33] <navrac> goodnight
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[22:34] <fsphil> nite!
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[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[23:01] <DrLuke> Nice, the kindle has i2c
[23:02] <DrLuke> there must be some way to be able to exploit that
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ webcast I one hour
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> launch in two
[23:05] <russss> 1.5
[23:05] <russss> 0136 BST
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> thanks
[23:06] <russss> I will attempt to stay up
[23:07] <DrLuke> BST = Bullshit time?
[23:07] <russss> British Summer Time
[23:07] <russss> which is basically bullshit because it's totally not summer right now.
[23:07] <DrLuke> haha
[23:08] <DrLuke> I feel your pain
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> according to the webcast, which has an inset orbit thingy, it will pass over the u
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> UK
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[23:09] <SpeedEvil> of course, likely invisibly
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[23:09] <russss> yeah it's too late to be in sunlight
[23:09] <DrLuke> oh man, one of these days I'm going to see a launch in person
[23:09] <russss> I think it would be a challenging one to spot
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> I don't think they turn on the clashed
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> flasher
[23:09] <russss> heh
[23:09] <DrLuke> they should put some 10W LEDs on it
[23:10] <DrLuke> wasn't there some cubesat writing stuff in morse code into the sky?
[23:10] <russss> yeah was about to mention that
[23:10] <russss> http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/05/FITSAT-1-launched-from-ISS/
[23:10] <DrLuke> just imagine comapnies exploiting that in the future to put up huge space-ads
[23:11] <DrLuke> "Buy coke!"
[23:11] <russss> http://www.fit.ac.jp/~tanaka/fitsat.shtml
[23:12] <DrLuke> oh it's transmitting on the 70cm band
[23:12] <russss> yeah, CW and packet on 70cm and images on 5GHz
[23:13] <DrLuke> I finally need that automatic tracking antenna
[23:13] <russss> yeah I need to build one and find somewhere in the countryside to put it
[23:13] <russss> we have ordered a KickSat for London Hackspace and that thing is going to be challenging as hell to receive
[23:14] <DrLuke> the only problem right now is translating the angle at which it's perpendicular to the direction of gravity to a global angle
[23:14] <DrLuke> KickSat?
[23:15] <russss> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zacinaction/kicksat-your-personal-spacecraft-in-space
[23:16] <DrLuke> oh damn that's neat
[23:16] <DrLuke> if only it wasn't 1000$
[23:17] <russss> baby steps
[23:17] <DrLuke> haha
[23:17] <DrLuke> whoever pledged 10k loves big red buttons
[23:17] <russss> I am still fairly dubious that it'll work
[23:18] <DrLuke> well, what I imagine is that it'll be spinning
[23:18] <DrLuke> and thus the solar cell coverage won't be optimal
[23:18] <DrLuke> it should have tiny motors to be able to rotate it
[23:18] <russss> even if the hardware works, you've got 100 of these guys in the same orbit transmitting on the same frequency
[23:18] <DrLuke> true
[23:18] <russss> apparently the FITSAT just has a neodymium magnet
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[23:18] <DrLuke> but they will spread eventually
[23:19] <DrLuke> oh
[23:19] <DrLuke> so it will align to earth's magnetic field?
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[23:19] <russss> yeah
[23:19] <DrLuke> damn that's clever
[23:19] <russss> dunno how well that works
[23:19] <russss> cunning idea though
[23:19] <BrainDamage> magnetorquers are not uncommon in sats
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> I'd want to design my own
[23:20] <DrLuke> they should've made one side reflective, so we'll have a space disco when a solar storm arrives
[23:20] <DrLuke> yeah
[23:20] <russss> BrainDamage: yeah, but I'm unaware of anything doing attitude control by just sticking a magnet on it. Sounds dangerously simple
[23:21] <DrLuke> how do cubesats actually work - are they sponsored by companies?
[23:21] <russss> NASA generally donates launch slots
[23:21] <DrLuke> russss: the simpler the better
[23:21] <DrLuke> ah
[23:21] <DrLuke> so it's impossible to get one for just myself
[23:21] <DrLuke> or a small group
[23:22] <russss> there is http://interorbital.com/TubeSat_1.htm
[23:22] <russss> but that's vapourware
[23:23] <DrLuke> I love the shape of it though
[23:24] <DrLuke> oh man just imagine a DIY satellite just for tracking HABs in europe
[23:24] <DrLuke> mmmhmmm
[23:25] <BrainDamage> not in EU, consider that it'd have to be a polar orbit to make the fuel cost cheap
[23:25] <russss> but as I understand it, there are basically cubesat slots going spare, so as long as you have a half-decent concept you may be able to swing one. But they do have to do a lot of integration work to make sure you don't fuck with the primary payload.
[23:25] <russss> so it's not simple
[23:25] <BrainDamage> so it won't be geosyncronous
[23:26] <russss> I (well, London Hackspace) did get offered a cubesat slot by a German university a year or so ago. Had to politely decline.
[23:27] <russss> speaking of unused launch capacity, I still don't know what they're going to send up when they test the Falcon Heavy. Could get a lot of satellites on there.
[23:27] <DrLuke> BrainDamage: yeah obviously
[23:28] <DrLuke> It's be cool if spacex gave away cubesat slots
[23:28] <BrainDamage> it'll be HAB tracking for whorever'd be enough lucky to fly under it
[23:28] <DrLuke> or some other amateur sat slots
[23:28] <DrLuke> yeah
[23:28] <DrLuke> http://www.bis-space.com/2012/09/18/6950/carbon-snowfall-%E2%80%93-on-mars
[23:28] <DrLuke> interesting
[23:30] <DrLuke> oh man space is so amazing
[23:30] <DrLuke> I can't wait to be done with university
[23:30] <DrLuke> And I so hope I can get into something space related
[23:31] <DrLuke> even if it only was ground equipment to track space stuff
[23:32] <russss> DrLuke: incidentally KickSat is booked to go up on SpaceX's CRS-3 I think
[23:32] <DrLuke> nice
[23:32] <russss> I believe the Dragon adapter has space for 3 or 4 kicksats
[23:32] <russss> er
[23:32] <russss> cubesats
[23:32] <russss> but obviously it's up to the primary customer to decide if they want to use them
[23:32] <DrLuke> is that individual cubesats or do you mean 3 or 4 cubesat launchers
[23:33] <DrLuke> which can carry 3 cubesats each
[23:36] <russss> gah the spacex livestream just started playing funky music
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> dance bitches!
[23:37] <russss> I believe it has capability for three P-PODs which each carry 3 x 1U cubesats
[23:37] <russss> but citation needed on that
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[23:39] <DrLuke> ok
[23:40] <DrLuke> oh well
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> quadcopter, hot-melt, you're good for launch.
[23:41] <DrLuke> hmm
[23:41] <DrLuke> a 3x1 cubesat could easily fit a tiny engine inside
[23:41] <DrLuke> to push it up to geostationary orbit or something
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> pulsed plasma thruster
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> they prolly won't let you put liquids or even solids on.
[23:42] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about binary solids.
[23:42] <DrLuke> I thought of a very simple low power LH and LO engine
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[23:43] <SpeedEvil> say sugar+kno3, in sepwrate blocks.
[23:43] <DrLuke> yeah probably true
[23:43] <BrainDamage> so you want to push from ~1k km to 35k km?
[23:43] <DrLuke> nah that's not controllable enough in my opinion
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> they are mixed with solar power
[23:43] <chris_99> are there any propulsion methods that don't require anything other than electricity
[23:43] <russss> well you'd go from GTO
[23:43] <russss> those SSTL development sats have pulsed plasma thrusters on
[23:44] <russss> chris_99: pulsed plasma uses sacrificial electrodes
[23:44] <russss> that's about as good as you can get
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> binary solids are the only way I can think of avoiding possible issues
[23:44] <DrLuke> BrainDamage: once you're in orbit and your entire payload isn't too heavy, it really doesn't take much energy
[23:44] <chris_99> you need gas for that though don't you russss
[23:44] <russss> chris_99: nope
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> sacrificial inter electrode propellant
[23:44] <russss> it vapourises the electrodes
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> it's not the actual electrodes
[23:44] <chris_99> oh cool
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> think a rail gun
[23:45] <BrainDamage> DrLuke: much energy? sec that I'm digging earth's mass, I wanna calculate it
[23:45] <DrLuke> I wonder if you could just swoop in stray atoms, and just accelerate them by some electrical means
[23:45] <DrLuke> BrainDamage: I'm probably naive
[23:45] <DrLuke> :P
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> with the propellant coming from a surface arc across a block
[23:45] <BrainDamage> some proposed designs for long distance travel use huge fans spinning at ridicolous speeds
[23:45] <russss> well magnetorquers and reaction wheels don't use any propellant, but they're attitude control and not propulsion
[23:45] <DrLuke> Speedevil: I'm going to need some wikipedia article on this
[23:46] <BrainDamage> to transfer momentum to the few stray particles
[23:46] <russss> you can't really escape newton's laws if you want to move things in space
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_plasma_thruster
[23:47] <chris_99> how's the teflon work as a fuel?
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> you arc across it.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> vapourising some
[23:48] <chris_99> ah, so it combusts then?
[23:48] <russss> http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/26828/2/STRaND-1%20IAC%20Paper.pdf
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> and that plasma is then accelerated by right hand rule
[23:48] <russss> page 19
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> no
[23:48] <russss> for SSTL's pulsed plasma thrusters
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> it dissociates
[23:48] <russss> er, page 9
[23:48] <russss> even
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> no air
[23:48] <chris_99> ah gotcha
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> who the hell chooses this music,
[23:49] <chris_99> it doesn't look too difficult to make one then?
[23:49] <russss> SpeedEvil: actually SSTL's thrusters do use the electrodes as the propellant source
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[23:49] <russss> but they are just testing these
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: no. with good vacuum to test,
[23:49] <chris_99> sounds like an interesting project
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> russss: ah. I last looked a few years ago
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: it's another project you need a really good vacuum for.
[23:49] <russss> that satellite has like 5 different reaction control systems on
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> just 'good' will screw up your test
[23:50] <chris_99> yeah, what kind of tor would it need to see a propulsion
[23:50] <chris_99> *torr
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> the problem is that you get early ignition of thearx due to residual air
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> the arc
[23:51] <BrainDamage> DrLuke: ~11MJ/kg unless I screwed my calcs so ~110kJ for a 10g sat
[23:52] <DrLuke> oh
[23:52] <DrLuke> that's quite a bit
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> more of it's gradual
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> if
[23:52] <chris_99> i always thought you needed gas to get a plasma though, so that's not true?
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> like ion or ppt
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: weeeel.
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: if you arc across a solid, you liberate gas
[23:53] <chris_99> ah, makes sense
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> problem with residual air is that that arcs, not your actual bar of propellant
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> so you get an airbrwathing engine
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> which,,,
[23:53] <russss> SSTL's resistojets are quite cool too
[23:54] <russss> and they have an awesome name
[23:54] <DrLuke> oh damn it spacex, start showing something already
[23:55] <DrLuke> even if it's just the rocket
[23:55] <russss> I believe NASA TV are showing some video with the usual inane commentary
[23:56] <DrLuke> nah their stream sucks
[23:56] <DrLuke> it's made for an american audience
[23:56] <russss> they're playing the flight control loop
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[23:56] <russss> they're talking about enabling the wireless base station,,,
[00:00] --- Mon Oct 8 2012