highaltitude.log.20121006

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[00:39] <m0psi> hey this dx.com site is super cool. thanks for the heads up
[00:40] <fsphil> I have banned myself from that site. I already have enough things cluttering up my space :)
[00:41] <m0psi> y, i feel the urge to get this little cluttering device http://dx.com/p/mp3-player-module-w-micro-sd-card-slot-mini-usb-3-5mm-jack-156001
[00:42] <m0psi> the kind of thing to buy just in case! :-)
[00:42] <fsphil> resist!
[00:42] <m0psi> i'm weak obi wan
[00:51] <BrainDamage> fsphil: o rly? http://dx.com/p/cn-06-gps-receiver-super-u-blox-gps-module-w-active-ceramic-antenna-mwc-149340?item=9
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[00:57] <fsphil> I've enough gps modules :)
[01:00] <BrainDamage> I'll find your weakness someday, then you'll crumble!
[01:00] Action: BrainDamage laughs maniacally while moving away
[01:00] <m0psi> :-), i'm already starting to buckle!
[01:00] <m0psi> so, this little gps thing...
[01:00] <m0psi> integrated antenna, it seems
[01:02] <m0psi> is the idea that it outputs a datastream straight into the nt2x?
[01:02] <m0psi> like the uBlox MAX-6
[01:02] <m0psi> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[01:02] <Randomskk> no - gps -> your microcontroller -> ntx2
[01:02] <Randomskk> you need glue in the middle
[01:02] <m0psi> oh
[01:03] <m0psi> hmm, what does the mc do, re-word the stream, or what?
[01:03] <Randomskk> kinda. the GPS spits out NMEA at some high baud rate like 4800
[01:04] <m0psi> (mc, e.g. arduino, right)
[01:04] <Randomskk> the microcontroller parses that, generally formats the lat/long, adds other data like temperature and your callsign and a decent checksum, then puts it to the radio at 50 baud
[01:04] <Randomskk> (yes, an arduino would be suitable)
[01:04] <m0psi> ok
[01:04] <m0psi> got it
[01:05] <m0psi> so, mini arduino ok for this job?
[01:05] <Randomskk> maybe? depends on your other stuff. specifically voltage levels and power supply and stuff.
[01:05] <m0psi> right
[01:05] <BrainDamage> even an eniac would be enough
[01:05] <m0psi> :-)
[01:05] <BrainDamage> provided you could fly it in a balloon
[01:05] <BrainDamage> and you'd translate the voltage levels
[01:05] <m0psi> a lot of H for that
[01:06] <m0psi> i'm writing a doc, as i go, as a project plan
[01:06] <m0psi> cos i'm doing this for/with a local highschool
[01:07] <m0psi> (actually it is an excuse!)
[01:07] <m0psi> so, i'm documenting all this kind of info
[01:07] <m0psi> ready for the next newbie like me
[01:07] <m0psi> basic stuff
[01:07] <m0psi> actually, has anyone on ukhas done this already?
[01:08] <Randomskk> almost certainly.
[01:08] <BrainDamage> wiki
[01:08] <Randomskk> a lot of information is on the wiki
[01:08] <Randomskk> so I'm told anyway
[01:09] <m0psi> sure, i was intending it to be a download/print/read/scrible all over it.
[01:09] <m0psi> nothing like good old fashioned paper in a lab setting
[01:09] <m0psi> digital has its place for sure, but so does paper
[01:10] <m0psi> i know this may be a heretic view, but i'm ok with it :-)
[01:10] <Randomskk> nothing wrong with paper. all my work is on it really
[01:11] <m0psi> also, wiki etc is a great source of info my doc
[01:11] <m0psi> in fact, once it starts to have legs, i'll put it up for comments, and see what scorne gets thrown at it
[01:11] <m0psi> i'm sure there will be loads of useful feedback
[01:12] <BrainDamage> when it start to have legs and a will of it's own?
[01:12] <BrainDamage> like it skydives from an HAB and murder someone?
[01:12] <m0psi> could be by next week or so
[01:12] <BrainDamage> hence why you need tracking?
[01:12] <m0psi> oh, not the gadget, the doc
[01:13] <BrainDamage> disappointment
[01:13] <m0psi> only just announced it at the school this morning
[01:13] <m0psi> basically i'm a willing parent, and suggested to have a hab project
[01:13] <m0psi> so they said, OK, you do it!
[01:13] <m0psi> !!
[01:14] <m0psi> so, i now have to deliver the dream of "building a spaceship"
[01:14] <m0psi> the teachers are saying "cool, we'll watch you do it"!
[01:15] <m0psi> anyway, i'm not complaining, i'm going to love it
[01:15] <Randomskk> :D
[01:15] <m0psi> but gotta make sure the kids get a lot out of it, rather than my personal project
[01:15] <Randomskk> just make them do the boring bits, right
[01:15] <m0psi> exactly
[01:16] <m0psi> how did you know that was what i was thinking!
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> I am unsure if primary schools are exempt under the outer space act from requiring launch permission fees.
[01:16] <m0psi> this is a highschool, we are in surrey, surrounded by airports
[01:16] <m0psi> so, may have to go west
[01:17] <m0psi> for the launch
[01:17] <Randomskk> surrey? where abouts?
[01:17] <m0psi> farnham
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> not serious, that's permission to launch actual spacecraft
[01:17] <Randomskk> oh pfft, farnham is way out! :P
[01:17] <Randomskk> I live in weybridge, I'm still inside the m25 :P
[01:17] <m0psi> you got to launch from weybridge?!!!!
[01:18] <Randomskk> never tried
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[01:18] Action: Randomskk runs the CUSF launch site at Cambridge in term-time
[01:18] <m0psi> right, i should think they will laugh at you
[01:18] <Randomskk> meh
[01:18] <Randomskk> you'd be surprised
[01:18] <Randomskk> anyway <2m is notam-exempt
[01:19] <Randomskk> that said given the reaction you get when you land inside the m25 I love to imagine what would happen if you launched inside.
[01:19] <m0psi> sure, i thought about that
[01:19] <Randomskk> haha
[01:19] <m0psi> right, so i will be looking for easterly winds
[01:19] <m0psi> or go north west from here, say newbery
[01:20] <Randomskk> sure. lots of options.
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[01:20] <m0psi> so, i'm unsure about planning a launch...
[01:20] <m0psi> if i plan for lets say, a jan 1st launch
[01:21] <Randomskk> bring chemical warmers. for inside your glove.
[01:21] <m0psi> is the idea that i as for a 2 week slot?
[01:21] <Randomskk> meh
[01:21] <Randomskk> whatever you ask for
[01:21] <m0psi> (yeah, exactly)
[01:21] <Randomskk> some people do a weekend and a backup weekend
[01:21] <Randomskk> I would not do a first launch in jan
[01:21] <m0psi> ?
[01:21] <Randomskk> it'l be freezing, freezing cold
[01:21] <Randomskk> and winter winds suck
[01:21] <m0psi> ok, so?
[01:21] <Randomskk> launching in the cold is seriously way more faff than you'd think
[01:22] <m0psi> march?
[01:22] <Randomskk> everyone's standing around outside with hands exposed for hours and then suddenly you need to fiddle with knots or something
[01:22] <Randomskk> it quickly becomes quite miserable
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[01:22] <Randomskk> maybe? perhaps see more about getting your payload ready and tested
[01:22] <Randomskk> I know you want to ask for permission well in advance and all
[01:22] <Randomskk> but you don't need to go that far ahead
[01:23] <m0psi> ok
[01:23] <m0psi> so stick with the payload
[01:23] <m0psi> good advice
[01:23] <Randomskk> worry about launch faff in a little while
[01:23] <m0psi> so, you reckon spring time
[01:23] <Randomskk> I mean, you can launch in january. it's just really cold and all.
[01:23] <Randomskk> also if it rains you will be so miserable
[01:23] <Randomskk> maybe spring would be good.
[01:24] <Randomskk> more likely to get acceptable predictions too, it seems.
[01:24] <m0psi> how long does the faffing take on launch?
[01:24] <Randomskk> up to hours
[01:24] <m0psi> gosh
[01:24] <Randomskk> if you don't know what you're doing and the payload isn't tested and so on and so forth, like three or four
[01:24] <Randomskk> if you have everything totally down pat and all you could probably do the whole thing in fifteen minutes or less?
[01:25] <m0psi> oh, that is the one i want.
[01:25] <m0psi> i will have had a pre-launch checklist
[01:25] <Randomskk> those things all help but even so
[01:25] <m0psi> and a pre-getting in the car checklist
[01:25] <m0psi> sure, there is always Murhpy
[01:25] <Randomskk> if you have like 10hr battery on the payload you could probably set up the payload box and turn it all on while still indoors
[01:25] <m0psi> i know i know
[01:25] <Randomskk> but in all liklihood there will be digital cameras
[01:26] <Randomskk> so you can't generally do that
[01:26] <Randomskk> so the payload box needs to be turned on, checked and sealed in the field
[01:26] <Randomskk> then rigged, parachute, balloon filled and tied and rigged.
[01:26] <Randomskk> still
[01:26] <m0psi> ok
[01:26] <Randomskk> checklists are good
[01:26] <Randomskk> if you get the chance to go to someone else's launch that can help
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[01:26] <m0psi> y, i am thinking maybe there is a worcester one soon
[01:27] <m0psi> so; chicken and egg question:
[01:28] <m0psi> how would i know, a month in advance, where the winds are going to be doing, so why would i choose a site that far ahead?
[01:28] <Randomskk> haha yea
[01:28] <Randomskk> problematic
[01:28] <m0psi> so?
[01:28] <Randomskk> hope for the best
[01:28] <m0psi> serious!?
[01:28] <Randomskk> find a site that might be good
[01:28] <Randomskk> and ask for two weekends
[01:28] <m0psi> you are allowed 2 x 2days?
[01:28] <Randomskk> maybe other people have good tricks. we have a 24/7/365 launch site so it's not really a huge issue
[01:28] <Randomskk> you can ask for whatever you want
[01:29] <Randomskk> the liklihood of getting it diminishes
[01:29] <Randomskk> I think most people ask for two weekends, a week or two apart
[01:29] <m0psi> ok
[01:29] <m0psi> that works mostly?
[01:29] <Randomskk> yea. mostly
[01:29] <m0psi> ok, good to know
[01:30] <m0psi> do you think launching from farnham is a possible? or no no?
[01:30] <m0psi> we're not on the flight path, but planes are not far?
[01:30] <Randomskk> I haven't really looked at predictions for it but it seems far out enough to maybe work
[01:30] <m0psi> ok, last question :-)
[01:30] <Randomskk> meh. if there might be planes you'll have to phone ATC anyway
[01:30] <m0psi> (thanks btw)
[01:30] <m0psi> well, that was my q
[01:31] <Randomskk> the time a balloon spends in the danger zone to a plane is pretty tiny, and the liklihood of hitting one in that much space smaller still, and the odds of causing damage if you do are low
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[01:31] <m0psi> do we have to call a special number? and say, we're about to let it go?
[01:31] <Randomskk> but yea. you'll probably get air traffic control's number on your notice of variation
[01:31] <Randomskk> and it'l say what you have to do
[01:31] <Randomskk> maybe 24hr notice and phone again 5min before release
[01:31] <Randomskk> typical conversation:
[01:31] <m0psi> ok, makes sense
[01:32] <Randomskk> "hi, I have a radiosonde balloon ready for release from <site name> as per my notice of variation, are you all clear for me to launch?" "hold on one sec... yes, that's fine" "thanks v much"
[01:32] <Randomskk> more typical: "hi it's the cambridge bunch, you ok if we launch a balloon now?" "yes"
[01:32] <Randomskk> rare: "please hold on for fifteen minutes, something's going overhead" "ok good now"
[01:33] <m0psi> interesting
[01:33] <m0psi> so, why cambridge? is it particularly clear of airspace?
[01:34] <Randomskk> it's more where we are. http://cusf.co.uk
[01:34] <m0psi> ah, that is you!?
[01:34] <Randomskk> yes
[01:35] <m0psi> super cool rocket launch
[01:35] <m0psi> very very impressive
[01:35] <Randomskk> also jonsowman and some other people vaguely around
[01:35] <Randomskk> thanks :p I had very little to do with the rocket, that was mostly our amazing phd students >_>
[01:35] <Randomskk> my part in that escapade was mostly limited to paying for the rocket fuel and explosives, in cash
[01:35] <m0psi> ok, so mostly cam students?
[01:35] <Randomskk> but hey, £3500 in 50s is great fun.
[01:35] <Randomskk> yea, all cambridge students.
[01:36] <m0psi> 3.5k? for a fuel stop? :-)
[01:36] <m0psi> that is steep
[01:37] <Randomskk> for sure
[01:37] <Randomskk> went up in flames
[01:37] <Randomskk> very quick way to burn money
[01:37] <m0psi> but fun watcing
[01:37] <Randomskk> yes :P
[01:38] <m0psi> well, it is fun/useful chatting, but i need to wake up too :-)
[01:38] <m0psi> thanks for your help Randomskk
[01:38] <m0psi> i'm sure i'll see you around
[01:38] <m0psi> are you launching soon ish?
[01:39] <Randomskk> probably
[01:39] <Randomskk> nothing firm atm though
[01:39] <Randomskk> no problem
[01:39] <Randomskk> good luck with your project!
[01:39] <m0psi> thanks
[01:39] <m0psi> nn
[01:39] <Randomskk> seeya
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[03:48] <Upu> Note that DX.com GPS module is a NEO-6M not a 6Q, its the cheaper one with the theTCXO
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[03:56] <Upu> right back in a week!
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[07:20] <jcoxon> morning
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[08:34] <kokey> morning
[08:36] <kokey> ugh I put these modules on this breadboard so long ago I have no idea what goes where any more
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[08:42] <kokey> yay, rfm test works, it was the soldering on one pin
[08:44] <kokey> scanner picks it up too, yay
[08:44] <kokey> heh, sounds a bit like the movie 'contact'
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[08:48] <navrac> morning all
[08:49] <number10> morning
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[08:50] <navrac> just seen this on the silabs web site: Si443x devices remain in production, but are not recommended for new designs. For new designs, please use Si4460/1/3/4 RF Transceivers instead.
[08:50] <navrac> so just as we get the hang of the rfm22b....
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[08:52] <kokey> oh bugger just as I got mine working like 20 minutes ago
[08:53] <kokey> wonder if the Si4460/1/3/4 will drift less
[08:57] <navrac> well the first change ive noticed is that it will do frequency steps of 28.6 rather than 156Hz
[08:59] <eroomde> that probably opens up some existing amateur mfsk modes
[08:59] <eroomde> maybe
[09:00] <navrac> betterefficiency - about 30% better on Rx
[09:00] <kokey> some sk would be really nice
[09:01] <kokey> I guess it would help to wire up my ublox again, tried to test it after moving it on my breadboard
[09:04] <kokey> the ublox max6 is just power and an io in and out?
[09:05] <kokey> ah no, checking the wiki again
[09:05] <eroomde> also an antenna can be helpful
[09:06] <kokey> sarantel antenna, one of upu's dev modules
[09:06] <kokey> I think I powered it from the arduino's regulated output before
[09:08] <kokey> perhaps I imagined that it had a regulated power output on the pro mini
[09:08] <navrac> it does doesnt it?
[09:08] <navrac> marked 3v3
[09:09] <navrac> with raw as its supply in?
[09:09] <kokey> it was raw, gnd, and vcc
[09:10] <navrac> oh yeah thats right as the same board is used for 5v as well as 3v3
[09:11] <kokey> vcc outputs as well?
[09:11] <kokey> if I supply to raw
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[09:11] <kokey> I seem to remember doing that
[09:12] <kokey> but it doesn't matter really, I'm on AA batteries
[09:12] <kokey> for testing anyway
[09:13] <kokey> I totally need to record what I've done this time since it will probably weeks before I get time to muck with this again
[09:14] <number10> a log book is a good idea even for home projects
[09:15] <kokey> totally, even if I just email stuff to myself
[09:18] <eroomde> i would like something that lets me write markdown with TeX rendering for maths, that can easily be translated into latex source of a nicely formatted web page
[09:19] <eroomde> cos i like taking notes but translating them into latex is annoying come write-up time, vs doing it as you go along
[09:19] <eroomde> but latex in general is a bit of a typesetting speicfic thing whereas i want it to be readable in plaintext easily
[09:19] <eroomde> it probably exists but i haven't done much research to find it
[09:19] <kokey> hmmm, I spoke to a guy a few months ago that stopped his online selling of RC toys to help his wife publish books full time
[09:20] <kokey> he mentioned some TeX based thing he used for editing, but that was mainly to create books, I vaguely remember that it's open source and available on lots of platforms
[09:21] <eroomde> i came across pandoc which i think might the the nearest thing
[09:21] <kokey> yay, ublox max6 works
[09:21] <kokey> and as usual in this flat, no hope of receiving anything
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[09:27] <eroomde> sounds dramatic
[09:29] <kokey> girlfriend's working today
[09:29] <eroomde> freedom
[09:29] <kokey> so it's me and the arduino and modules, and rump steak and beer for breakfast
[09:30] <eroomde> wow
[09:30] <eroomde> that's actually quite amazing
[09:30] <eroomde> you should fell a tree with an axe aswell
[09:32] <kokey> tho I have to leave in an hour to help a friend of hers move into a flat
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[09:43] <eroomde> valgrind on osx is a real pain in my bottom
[09:43] <eroomde> i think i will abandon ship to a vm
[09:44] <kokey> yeah I bought an old desktop PC for linux dev work, always have pain with dev tools on osx
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[09:45] <eroomde> i am close to getting an old thinkpad x60
[09:46] <eroomde> for that reason
[09:47] <kokey> ah, I used to use an old x31 for that
[09:47] <eroomde> plonk in a cheap ssd and i'll be off
[09:47] <kokey> in gibraltar
[09:47] <kokey> yeah, and a cheapo replacement battery, because it's probably dead now
[09:48] <eroomde> well my contraint is basically the best thing i can get for £100 on ebay
[09:48] <eroomde> yes indeed
[09:48] <Randomskk> why not linux vm on the mac?
[09:48] <kokey> I like them, they're pretty light
[09:48] <eroomde> Randomskk: well i'm doing that now
[09:49] <eroomde> putting ubuntu server on
[09:49] <kokey> Randomskk: did that recently, and went my usual route of going ubuntu for dev tools, 4GB of disk space later and most of my RAM, it didn't work so well
[09:49] <eroomde> but i have before found oddnessess when trying to do stuff like raw ethernet stuff
[09:49] <eroomde> such as with our data logging boxes
[09:49] <kokey> I've got enough Linux servers in data centers anyway, only reason I do it on a desktop/laptop is to do stuff for hardware
[09:49] <eroomde> the vm layer seems to add a layer of debugging complication
[09:50] <Randomskk> mm, fair enough
[09:50] <kokey> gnuradio under vmware on linux was just that little bit too slow to work, while when I built it on OSX it worked ok
[09:50] <eroomde> i would also like something i can throw around the rocket test bay with a little more gusto
[09:51] <kokey> those thinkpads are good field laptops
[09:51] <eroomde> yeah. i'm a bit sheepish about it with my air
[09:51] <kokey> it would be nice if they kept the body the same and just add new low power processors
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[09:55] <eroomde> yeah
[09:56] <eroomde> the x60/61 case is a joy
[09:56] <eroomde> especially nice is the little keyboard light instead of backlit keys
[09:56] <eroomde> lets you read sheets of paper in the dark
[09:57] <Randomskk> hey eroomde http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221131038929
[09:57] <Randomskk> :P
[09:57] <eroomde> maybe a wee bit older than i was thinking
[09:58] <Randomskk> (someone on #lhs was selling it and no one knew who'd want something quite that old)
[09:58] <Randomskk> going on the number of votes it's had apparently not many people do
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[09:58] <Randomskk> still they are lovely cases
[09:58] <eroomde> yes indeed
[09:58] <Randomskk> I think my next laptop might be a thinkpad after this air bites it
[09:58] <Randomskk> then again I like to imagine that'l be in a while.
[09:58] <kokey> eroomde: yeah it's some of the best thought through designs for laptops before apple really
[09:58] <kokey> not sexy and pretty, but very functional
[09:59] <eroomde> i probably prefer it
[09:59] <eroomde> aesthetically
[09:59] <eroomde> to my mba
[09:59] <kokey> but only the x series, I had some T60s that died
[09:59] <kokey> screen cracked in weeks, I mean I've never cracked a laptop screen before or after that
[09:59] <kokey> it was in the official laptop bag, on a strap, over my shoulder, I'm not tall at all
[10:00] <kokey> strap slipped off, it fell to the ground, screen cracked
[10:01] <Randomskk> eroomde: yea I'm starting to lean that way. also I'm not a huge fan of where apple seem to be going with OS X
[10:01] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[10:01] <Randomskk> but the macbook airs are very nice
[10:01] <eroomde> same
[10:01] <Randomskk> I'll miss Keynote but besides that I'm not really fussed
[10:01] <eroomde> snap
[10:02] <Randomskk> anything that can open a terminal and run chrome is generally enough to make me happy
[10:02] <Randomskk> hmm
[10:02] <Randomskk> hopefully the mba will keep working long enough to use it for keynote and stuff for ages anyway
[10:02] <Randomskk> but, no new laptops for a year or two yet.
[10:03] <kokey> I'm still on an old white macbook
[10:03] <kokey> it's 3 years old, and was the first laptop I ever bought new
[10:03] <eroomde> i am not really sure why i bought a laptop new
[10:03] <eroomde> well, apple did a nice student discount
[10:03] <eroomde> but they way i treat them, it doesn't make much sense
[10:04] <kokey> before that I was on the x31 for about two years, and before that on old dell latitudes
[10:04] <eroomde> i don't do coffee shops, i do soldering and rocket firing and swarf
[10:04] <kokey> I want to get a beefier laptop, so I can spin up some VMs and do some final cut stuff
[10:04] <kokey> and my soft synths kill some of the music I do in logic
[10:05] <kokey> but then there's also the mobility aspect, so I'm thinking of an ipad etc.
[10:05] <eroomde> get one of those 19" dell beasts
[10:05] <kokey> and my iphone 4 contract is over, so there's the iphone 5
[10:05] <kokey> so in the end I don't know what combination will do for me so I just buy nothing
[10:05] <kokey> well, apart from a scanner, a camera, and some flights and train tickets
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[10:06] <kokey> naw I'm pretty happy with the apple laptops, though I get the feeling they might want to kill off OSX and the macbook pro
[10:06] <Randomskk> that's why I have my desktop
[10:07] <Randomskk> definitely wouldn't wanna be with just a laptop
[10:07] <eroomde> yes same
[10:07] <Randomskk> hello i5, 8gb ram, chunky chunky graphics card, dual 24" screens, full mechanical keyboard.
[10:07] <eroomde> i like my desktop
[10:07] <Randomskk> glorious.
[10:07] <eroomde> i wish it were silent tho
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[10:07] <Randomskk> I had silent on my spec list when I put this together in first year
[10:07] <eroomde> what keyboard do you use Randomskk ?
[10:07] <Randomskk> the case has like a 12" fan and that's about it. it's very quiet
[10:07] <Randomskk> also, SSD only
[10:08] <Randomskk> eroomde: das keyboard pro UK
[10:08] <kokey> eroomde: try swap out the fan if you haven't already
[10:08] <eroomde> i think it's my cpu fan that is noisy
[10:08] <Randomskk> those are readily replaced
[10:08] <kokey> I also got one of those fanless ati cards with the hdmi output
[10:08] <eroomde> well, it's a nice one
[10:08] <kokey> I use the desktop mostly for the TV
[10:08] <eroomde> but i don't think it's doing the variable speed thing
[10:08] <Randomskk> do you need that? I generally run my computer hot and 24/7 and it's fine
[10:08] <kokey> though the next thing is to be a time machine backup for my mac
[10:08] <Randomskk> eroomde: though jon is getting http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=805
[10:08] <Randomskk> both have the same blue cherry switches
[10:09] <Randomskk> the crucial difference being that jon didn't want a numpad and I definitely did
[10:09] <kokey> yeah quiet CPU fans are cheap and makes a difference
[10:09] <Randomskk> this keyboard is by far the nicest I've ever used.
[10:09] <Randomskk> I can hit 140 wpm ;o
[10:09] <Randomskk> and it sounds beautiful
[10:09] <kokey> I need a nice keyboard at work
[10:09] <kokey> mine is fine, except it's loud
[10:09] <kokey> and I seem to be the person who types the most at work
[10:09] <Randomskk> mine is a bit loud. but not like, super loud
[10:09] <kokey> I think it drives some other people mad
[10:09] <Randomskk> that said I tend to type up a storm anyway, so even at work with a standard membrane very quiet keyboard
[10:10] <Randomskk> I still got comments about the loud typing >_> if only I had this.
[10:10] <eroomde> i have a modem m clone
[10:10] <eroomde> model M*
[10:10] <Randomskk> what switches? does it have the model m style buckling springs?
[10:10] <Randomskk> i.e. insanely loud?
[10:10] <eroomde> yes
[10:10] <Randomskk> I considered a model m clone but it seems that really cherry have put a lot of work into making even nicer switches
[10:11] <Randomskk> so this is nothing like as loud as them but imho as nice or nicer to type on
[10:11] <Randomskk> (my friend had one)
[10:11] <kokey> what keyboard do you use at home?
[10:11] <kokey> I think I should just swap mine at work for another one from another hot desk
[10:11] <kokey> there are some dell keyboards that feel nicer
[10:11] <Randomskk> das keyboard is the one for at home
[10:12] <Randomskk> some of the old dell keyboards are really really nice
[10:12] <Randomskk> they did good keyboards back in the day
[10:12] <Randomskk> well, fine by membrane standards anyway
[10:12] <kokey> some old ibm keyboards were also nice
[10:12] <kokey> actually, HP made nice ones too
[10:13] <Randomskk> I'm kinda looking forward to how this keyboard lasts as well. I've only ever bought one computer mouse, about 8 years ago
[10:13] <kokey> like in the mid 90s
[10:13] <Randomskk> and I love it to bits :D
[10:13] <Randomskk> well worth the £50 or whatever I Spent on it at the time
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[10:19] <kokey> heh, coding for the arduino is like tons easier than doing cfengine promises
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[10:22] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: #projecthorus getting ready for a balloon launch tomorrow (Horus 29) [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/254527007994564608]
[10:24] <kokey> hmmm, remind me, why don't we use gfsk on the rfm22 but rtty instead?
[10:24] <kokey> is it because we can't reduce the baud rate of the gfsk enough or is it because of receivers and fldigi?
[10:24] <Randomskk> both
[10:25] <Randomskk> more the latter
[10:25] <Randomskk> also because it's new
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[10:32] <navrac> Since there are so many RFM based payloads around it might bean idea to pair them with a hab amp on the ground as nice easy receivers.
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[11:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hola gents
[11:17] <jcoxon> hey Dan-K2VOL
[11:29] <fsphil> good afternoon!
[11:29] <Dan-K2VOL> hi jcoxon, how's it going?
[11:31] <Dan-K2VOL> hi fsphil
[11:31] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well thanks
[11:31] <jcoxon> hows france?
[11:31] <Dan-K2VOL> tres bien! (I think)
[11:31] <navrac_work> \
[11:32] <eroomde> very impressive
[11:32] <fsphil> ah, en france
[11:32] <Dan-K2VOL> spent the last few days literally surrounded by piles of papers from the EOLE project
[11:32] <Dan-K2VOL> I have a few selections to share, one minute
[11:33] <Dan-K2VOL> I spent the train from paris to toulouse making scanned tiffs into PDFs
[11:33] <eroomde> that's a decent train ride
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[11:51] <staylo> That's a very irritating script :)
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[13:17] <Darkside> woot
[13:17] <Darkside> cutdown box is kind of dine
[13:17] <Darkside> done
[13:19] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/LXbuL.jpg
[13:21] <BrainDamage> I like the misaligned "o"s in boom
[13:21] <BrainDamage> gives it that extra IED quality
[13:21] <Randomskk> yea please do fly that to the UK
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[13:33] <Darkside> hahaha
[13:33] <Darkside> yes
[13:33] <Darkside> i should
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[13:34] <chris_99> heh, is that for a rocket Darkside?
[13:36] <Darkside> nope
[13:36] <Darkside> for the balloon cutdown
[13:37] <chris_99> forgive my naivety but why do you cut down the balloon?
[13:41] <Darkside> backup
[13:41] <navrac_work> because either you want the payload to drop somewhere you can recover it if its drifting towards the sea - and also as balloons often burst messily and can get stuck round the parachute
[13:41] <Darkside> and tomorrow we're cutting it because if we don't it
[13:41] <Darkside> if we don't cut it tomorrow it's going to end up a *long* away away
[13:41] <chris_99> ah gotcha
[13:42] <chris_99> oh so you actually have a reciever on the balloon this time?
[13:42] <chris_99> that detects the cutdown message
[13:44] <DrLuke> darkside: holy shit, sweet!
[13:44] <Randomskk> Darkside: does the large red button light up when armed?
[13:44] <Randomskk> 'cause it really should
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[13:44] <DrLuke> it should also make an explosion sound
[13:44] <Randomskk> I put a 1W red LED inside mine which worked well
[13:45] <DrLuke> like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIAbFMlS1tM
[13:45] <DrLuke> 1W? Won't that like... burn your eyes out?
[13:45] <Randomskk> no, it just ensures a nice _bright_ light :P
[13:46] <DrLuke> haha
[13:47] <DrLuke> well, I'll go and jailbreak my kindle now :)
[13:47] <DrLuke> because amazon is really nice, you can change almost nothing on it
[13:48] <DrLuke> I mean, you REALLY see that it's made for the US market, haha
[13:57] <BrainDamage> if you jailbreak, can you run more decent formats? such as epub?
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[14:02] <navrac_work> ye hah - ivwe just found out what all the undocumented registers in the rfm22b do - play time!
[14:02] <Darkside> ooh
[14:02] <Darkside> what can you do
[14:03] <navrac_work> sadlt whilst i know what the missing 50h-5f range do , i dont understand what they do and what i can do with them yet
[14:04] <Darkside> eh
[14:04] <Darkside> so you know the register names?
[14:04] <navrac_work> http://wenku.baidu.com/view/9b09fd2258fb770bf78a5548.html
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[14:05] <Darkside> oh is that all
[14:05] <navrac_work> scrioll down to page 136 - register names, descriptions and how to use them - only just found it so not sure what refers to what yet
[14:05] <Darkside> we've known its a si4432 all this time
[14:05] <navrac_work> no its not that the silabs data sheet doesnt include those registers
[14:06] <Darkside> ooh
[14:06] <Darkside> TX ramp
[14:06] <Darkside> to prevent VCO pulling
[14:06] <Darkside> :-)
[14:07] <navrac_work> yep - saw that - and my favourite register 55 skip vco calibration on tx
[14:07] <Darkside> hrm
[14:08] <navrac_work> i suspect its that recalibrating might be causing some of the drift on tx start
[14:08] <Darkside> hm
[14:08] <navrac_work> lots of things to paly with
[14:08] <navrac_work> lots of things to trim
[14:09] <DrLuke> BrainDamage: yes
[14:10] <DrLuke> BrainDamage: you can basically install anything that also would run under linux with a jailbreak
[14:10] <DrLuke> time to write a huge ass extensive library
[14:11] <navrac_work> interesting that both of the pa ramps are 0 by default
[14:13] <Darkside> limits the throughput
[14:13] Nick change: Guest1842 -> Guest17546
[14:13] Nick change: Guest17546 -> danielsaul
[14:14] <griffonbot> @vk5fsck: RT @vk5gr: #projecthorus getting ready for a balloon launch tomorrow (Horus 29) [http://twitter.com/vk5fsck/status/254585338868166657]
[14:20] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone recall french balloon regulations?
[14:22] <navrac_work> it must carry a warning triangle, spare bulbs and a hi vis jacket - and i think a breathlyser after october
[14:22] <Dan-K2VOL> ah good to know
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[14:34] <mclane> hi, I have some stability issues with the new version of dl-fldigi - anything known about that?
[14:34] <Darkside> define: stability issues
[14:34] <mclane> it simply closes by itself
[14:34] <Randomskk> operating system and version?
[14:35] <mclane> linux mint 12
[14:35] <Randomskk> what dl-fldigi version/commit ID/built from source or binary?
[14:35] <Randomskk> any debug messages or crash logs?
[14:35] <NigelMoby> start it from console
[14:37] <mclane> build from source ; fldigi version 3.21.50
[14:38] <Randomskk> git commit ID?
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[14:39] <mclane> no idea, where can I find that?
[14:40] <NigelMoby> the random numbers / letters at the end of the zip filename
[14:42] <mclane> I have git-cloned, so no zip file available
[14:42] <mclane> following the advise on the wiki
[14:42] <mclane> for building in ubuntu
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[14:55] <fsphil> likely the latest version then
[14:56] <fsphil> if it crashed, you'll get a load of information on the console
[14:56] <mclane> build date was Sept. 8
[14:56] <mclane> I have started in the console now
[14:56] <mclane> waiting for a crash
[14:57] <mclane> but -- demonstartin effect seems to apply ;-)
[14:58] <Randomskk> mclane: if you git cloned, just run "git log -1" to get the most recent commit
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[15:04] <mclane> ok, commit is 8714c31851dd95989f04760c30aa1372cf4804b2
[15:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - XABEN 35"
[15:05] <futurity> Hi Anyone here played with the EZCap dongle? having problems setting it up
[15:05] <bertrik> futurity: yes I have, what's the problem?
[15:05] <bertrik> do you run windows or linux?
[15:06] <bertrik> I tried SDR# + fl-digi and got it to work some weeks ago
[15:06] <futurity> There is a step on the UKHAS wiki about uncommenting a line in the config file, but I can't see any commented out lines
[15:06] <futurity> Windows 7
[15:06] <Randomskk> mclane: that should be okay. see if you can get any debug output
[15:06] <bertrik> futurity: for SDR# ?
[15:06] <Randomskk> I mean, it does do that on occasion. it's not unknown for it to just up and die.
[15:06] <Randomskk> fldigi is okay but it's not the most amazing codebase
[15:06] <futurity> yep SDRSharp setup
[15:06] <Randomskk> and dl- is glued on top
[15:07] <bertrik> in XML, comments start with <!-- and end in -->
[15:07] <futurity> Got the drivers installed
[15:07] <futurity> downloaded and copied across the rtlsdr binaries
[15:08] <futurity> hmm the whole config has disappeared on me now
[15:09] <futurity> i take it that with an EZCap yo us till need to do the RTL steps?
[15:10] <futurity> ok in the SDRSharp.exe.config file there is a bunch of XML but commented out as in <!--
[15:11] <futurity> i downloaded the SDRSharp stable version, was that the correct one?
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[15:15] <futurity> if there is nothing commented out, where should I add it? to the frontendplugins section?
[15:17] <bertrik> do you have the rtlsdr plugin module, I guess that one also contains the settings file
[15:17] <bertrik> a settings file with the RTLUSB stuff config in it
[15:17] <bertrik> futurity: I'd just get the very latest one, not the older stable version
[15:19] <futurity> ok there is a link further down from someone who said they just copied the full directory content into the same sir, i'll try that
[15:21] <futurity> ok i can use other or soft rock and when i press play i now get stuff on the screen and white noise
[15:21] <futurity> but RTL no in the drop down
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[15:25] <futurity> I've tried moving the config file in the config dir to the main sir dir and it brings up erros saying it couldn't load the SDRSharp.RTLTCP.RtlTcpIO,SDRSharp.RTLTCP
[15:25] <futurity> and the same about the SDRIQ file :(
[15:26] <navrac_work> put out the flags and bunting!
[15:26] <MrScienceMan> trying to get SDRsharp to work?
[15:26] <MrScienceMan> dev dropped support for RTL because the driver was crashing too often
[15:27] <futurity> MrScienceMan: yep, SDRSharp opens and i can get static on other and SoftRock, but can't get the RTL listed in the drop down
[15:27] <futurity> oh i see
[15:27] <MrScienceMan> there is a config file in the SDR directory
[15:27] <futurity> so its no longer supported?
[15:27] <MrScienceMan> you ned to uncomment the line for RTL
[15:28] <MrScienceMan> but before you do that, you need the actual drivers which are no longer included in the default install
[15:28] <futurity> ok, yes see that now
[15:28] <futurity> the user added comment suggests a download, it has a config dir
[15:28] <futurity> i'll try that config file and uncomment the line
[15:29] <MrScienceMan> you need the files, first ;)
[15:29] <MrScienceMan> if you havent done that already
[15:29] <futurity> ok so extracted SDRSharp
[15:29] <futurity> extracted the first zip file and copied in the two files
[15:30] <MrScienceMan> sdrsharp + rtl drivers/dlls + uncomment line
[15:30] <futurity> then extracted the user recommended zip and copied all the files from there into the same SDRSharp dir as well
[15:30] <futurity> there is now a config dir
[15:30] <futurity> copied that config file into the dir able (main sdrsharp dir)
[15:30] <futurity> to replace the original config file
[15:31] <futurity> opening this new config file has the rtl-sdr line already uncommented
[15:31] <futurity> i now run it and
[15:31] <MrScienceMan> well, that should do it then :)
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> navrac_work: interesting find
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> so that pdf is different to the silabs one thats current?
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> im not sure about the pll
[15:32] <navrac_work> yep and its fun
[15:32] <futurity> get the same error dialog boxed appear saying it can't load SDRSharp RTLTCP&. or one of its dependantcies
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> aiui if the pll is locked you are ok
[15:32] <navrac_work> just tuning out that godawfull drift on tx on
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> but of course it can jitter its phase a little
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> and due to the design of the pll that may manifest itself as relativly large apprent drift
[15:33] <navrac_work> im w
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> due to the dividers involved
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> but im not convinced about it being due to VCO
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> I think when it talks about "VCO splatter" it means short duration phase wobbles
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> caused by VCC rail disturbances on the scale of microscends
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> *microseconds
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> have you tried the rfm22b with the xtal set to run 100% of the time?
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[15:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:35] <navrac_work> its the ramp up speeds im playing with at the moment
[15:35] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[15:36] <Laurenceb_> but aiui you were talking about drift over seconds or so?
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi navrac, thanks for your discussion about the mailing list
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[15:37] <Laurenceb_> and ramp up control is over short timescales of microseconds?
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[15:38] <navrac_work> yes - but it seems to help - not sure how much yet
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[15:40] <navrac_work> im running a 10 second on 10 second off cycle at the moment and it appears to reduce the drift over the 10 seconds from about 60 Hz to 40Hz - but it is hard to say exactly what trhe improvement is as you need to average over 10 runs or so
[15:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi navrac, thanks for your discussion about the mailing list
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:41] <Laurenceb_> navrac_work: do you remeber the discussion on xtal enable/disable on rfm22b from a while ago?
[15:41] <Laurenceb_> did that ever get sorted?
[15:41] <navrac_work> yep - i tried that - but very little improvement
[15:42] <navrac_work> it sounded like it should half helped but it didnt
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> how odd
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> have you tried scoping the xtal pins
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> you'd probably need a resistor inbetween or the capacitance of the scope probes would stop it oscillating
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> to check the xtal is running all the time
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> if the xtal is running thats very odd
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> as the pll should be locked to it
[15:45] <navrac_work> ok - over 10 runs at 10 seconds on 10 seconds tx off, the startup drift is constantly 40Hz+- 2Hz with the register set. Without the register set it is an average of 48Hz but varies from 40Hz to 60Hz
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> i thought of one idea - if the die temperature changes or some of the internal LDO regs change as it transmits
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> that may cause xtal frequency drift
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> which register set?
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> vco cal?
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> or PA ramp
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> why not try outputting xtal clk on a gpio pin and scoping - do you have a frequency meter function on the scope?
[15:49] <navrac_work> pa ramp
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> weird
[15:49] <navrac_work> dont think it will go that accurate we are only talking about 2ppm
[15:50] <navrac_work> sadly on a 30 second tx off cycle its not looking very good still
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah good point, its very small
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> mor elike 0.1ppm?
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> only a few cycles of the xtal
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> feasible for the pll syncing then i guess
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> which isnt going to be very easily fixed
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> i guess there may be certain tx frequencies where the pll will work more nicely
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> i havent looked at the design in detail.. if its even documented that well
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> another random thought - maybe keep in tx mode all the time and ramp the PA power register over spi?
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[16:02] <Laurenceb_> ewww
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> it uses sigma delta modulation of the pll
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> and the pll is clocked from 10mhz
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> no wonder it drifts by 0.1ppm
[16:03] <navrac_work> 80/80/60/50/60/60/60 with it doing most of the drifting in the first 5 seconds vs 60/60/40/50/60/50/50 with the max ramp value - so not brilliant but a slight improvement - next register...
[16:04] <navrac_work> i did try that approach but it was better but niot a lot - it also used quite a bit more power that way vs the on off
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah i see now
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> you cant go <11dBm
[16:05] <navrac_work> just going to see if this version of th e code leaves the xtal while tx is off
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah i suspect xtal will dift on startup
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> but the pll design they used is going to drift
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> due to the slow clock
[16:07] <navrac_work> this test software leave the crystal and pll running when its not transmitting
[16:09] <Laurenceb_> oh
[16:09] <Laurenceb_> so the pll runs all the time?
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise that was possible
[16:12] <Laurenceb_> so how do you turn the pa on/off?
[16:14] <navrac_work> register 07 - when switching tx off set it to 03 to leave the clock and pll on
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> so even doing that you see drift?
[16:16] <futurity> with the EZCap dongle, was I supposed to download the software specifically for this dongle first, before following the UKHAS instructions?
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> thats interesting - looks like probably the VCO getting perturbed and the slow/inaccurate pll response
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> due to only a 10mhz clk
[16:17] <navrac_work> i think what im seeing is thermal related.
[16:17] <navrac_work> the drift is larger on higher output powers
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> youd see that if it was supply voltage related too
[16:17] <navrac_work> if i cool the chip the drift is larger until the chip warms up
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> theres a seperate pin for VCO power but the rfm22b board ties then all together
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> thats not definitive either
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> but yeah it could be thermal as well
[16:19] <navrac_work> I'm going to swap out the crystal for an external tcxo in a bit
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> im not sure if theres a solution to this :-/
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[16:19] <navrac_work> im not sure there is either
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> as you have drifts of 0.1ppm or so over a few seconds
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> and a pll clocked at 10mhz
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> its going to wobble around if purturbed
[16:21] <navrac_work> I think the reason that the test made it look like the ramping up helped is because i did those tests after running the tests with the ramping off
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> and it was warmer
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> i guess if you test with tcxo then at least you know its got a stable clk input
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> so any drift is purely pll
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[16:29] <Laurenceb_> try Tx at 430Mhz - thats 43x10mhz
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[16:30] <Laurenceb_> so no sigma-delta stuff involved
[16:31] <CanadaWest> hi. newb here.
[16:31] <MrScienceMan> hi newb
[16:32] <navrac_work> interestingly if i stick some heatsink compound and a large thermal mass on the chip the drift seems to halve
[16:33] <navrac_work> hi canadawest
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[16:33] <CanadaWest> trying to find what to buy to get started.
[16:34] <navrac_work> oh dear stand by for lots of opposing suggestions as to what is most important
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:35] <Randomskk> CanadaWest: have you found the wiki?
[16:35] <navrac_work> I guess first of all what do you want to achieve
[16:35] <CanadaWest> i know... i asked for it, didn't I ?
[16:36] <CanadaWest> i eventually want an autonomous glider payload. First things first though...
[16:38] <navrac_work> yep some heatsink compound and a hex screwdriver bit seems to solve a lot of the drift - on previous flights id done similar over the chip and crystal thinking the chip would keep the xtal warm and it certainly helped - but it does appear its the thermal mass thats helped
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[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello CanadaWest
[16:39] <navrac_work> hi james
[16:41] <CanadaWest> i would like to get components for GPS and transmission of data to ground
[16:41] <navrac_work> the best source of those has gone on holiday for a week
[16:42] <CanadaWest> who is that?
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[16:42] <navrac_work> the easiest way is a ublox max6 module and arduino mini pro and an rfm boards or ntx2
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> CanadaWest: are you in Canada?
[16:43] <CanadaWest> i am in Canada, yes.
[16:43] <navrac_work> have a look at the wiki - there are code examples and a link to a show where you can get the rfms and ublox chips on nice breakout boards to make them simple to use
[16:44] <navrac_work> I'm really hating this screwdriver bit - its doing better than two hours of register poking did
[16:44] <CanadaWest> which wiki? i found this chan on an unrelated site.
[16:44] <navrac_work> i wonder if i can get small shifts by mucking around with the vco/pll registers
[16:45] <navrac_work> www.ukhas.org
[16:45] <navrac_work> just 'upsetting it a bit'
[16:46] <CanadaWest> ok. thanks. Anyone know of a Canadian equiv to you guys, or should I troll here?
[16:46] <navrac_work> feel free to hang around - we have people from all over the world here, we even let australians in....
[16:47] <navrac_work> not sure if i want to desolder the xtal off this rfm board - its the last working one i have
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> cant you leave it on?
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> and feed in a clk
[16:48] <navrac_work> tricky... the xtal shares the clkin pin
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> so
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> it shouldnt matter?
[16:49] <navrac_work> hmm they might fight
[16:49] <navrac_work> ill chance it after a coffee
[16:50] <CanadaWest> Aussies are fun. At least those that travel this far...
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> isn't natrium42 Canadian?
[16:52] <Randomskk> canadian/russian and living in california iirc :P
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:57] <CanadaWest> any opinions on the GumStix gps offering?
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, you said Eurus 3 or so is next week?
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[17:03] <futurity> ezcap - seems using the stable version or using Windows 7 may have been a problem. Now using Ezcap dev version on Windows XP
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[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> CanadaWest, nice to have someone from Canada here
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[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> I mean that natrium is of course from CDN but he lives in the US, so I think there have not been many flights in Canada
[17:11] <CanadaWest> i don't know why not... maybe i will find out the hard way
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[17:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:12] <Lunar_Lander> and do you know the HARP project from the 1960's?
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[17:14] <CanadaWest> i read about it.
[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> that was a great thing of Canadian innovation
[17:17] <navrac_work> still drifts - ah well time for tea and a think about it
[17:19] <CanadaWest> will be back. thanks guys!
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> you are welcome
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> and I would like to close this talk
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> by saying
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> CANADA
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[17:22] <CanadaWest> my home on native land... :P
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[17:24] <NigelMoby> its still north America :p
[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL1> eve all
[17:32] <fsphil> North America, still above South America
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm curious how there are so few listeners on spacenear.us today
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> it seems like normally there's a lot more
[17:33] <fsphil> there hasn't been a launch in a while
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[17:33] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm contemplating doing a pico launch tomorrow from Toulouse, but I'm not sure if there's listener stations around here, do you recall phil?
[17:34] <fsphil> we've had a few listeners in france
[17:34] <fsphil> mostly in the north
[17:34] <fsphil> which doesn't work so well for down there
[17:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> ah darn, I don't have a receiver with me either, I probably will have to skip it for now
[17:34] <fsphil> I'd forgotten how far south Toulouse is
[17:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> it's really down there isn't it!
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[17:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> gtg dinner!
[17:40] <NigelMoby> snails and blue cheese?
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[17:41] <cuddykid> I'm guessing there is no way to have 2 components that both require comms via MOSI/MISO/SCK on a pcb with just one atmega?
[17:43] <Randomskk> yea
[17:43] <Randomskk> that's fine. just use two CS lines
[17:46] <cuddykid> ah, great :D thanks
[17:46] <cuddykid> Randomskk: would you also (or another habhub person) be able to approve my flight doc :5c70cc7e17698411ebc0b3bae64d379e? cheers
[17:47] <Randomskk> sure. done.
[17:48] <cuddykid> thanks
[17:48] <Randomskk> np
[17:53] <cuddykid> Randomskk: am I right in thinking that any pin can be assigned as a CS pin on atmega (arduino boot loader) - doesn't necessarily have to be D10 (which is their "set" CS pin)?
[17:54] <Randomskk> D10 is the AVR's slave mode SPI pin
[17:54] <Randomskk> you can use any digital pin you want for setting another chip's CS
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[17:57] <cuddykid> ah, I see :) thanks
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[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL> haha I was offered snails and cheese this morning at the market, but my kind couchsurfing host made home-made tomato sauce and spaghetti tonight
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[18:10] <daveake> Ah, the USA ... where hot sandwiches come with a warning to use both hands "for your safety"
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
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[18:19] <cuddykid> you there now daveake ?
[18:19] <daveake> Yea
[18:20] <daveake> Waiting at Detroit for 2nd flight
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake, hope you'll have a good time in the USA
[18:20] <daveake> Free 30mins of wifi
[18:20] <daveake> Ta
[18:21] <cuddykid> excellent!
[18:21] <cuddykid> jealous
[18:21] <cuddykid> hopefully you won't see a drop of rain
[18:22] <daveake> Have your 500 emails/day died down yet?
[18:22] <cuddykid> yeah, thankfully :D
[18:22] <cuddykid> doing a launch next weekend - looks to be heading down your way at the moment, long way off I know though
[18:23] <daveake> 33,000 feet in a jet seems so LOW
[18:23] <cuddykid> haha, I remember thinking that :P
[18:23] <daveake> I have one planned for end of Oct
[18:23] <cuddykid> good flight?
[18:24] <cuddykid> in true daveake fashion, there is never a month without a launch
[18:24] <MrScienceMan> daveake: change your MAC and get 30 more minutes
[18:24] <MrScienceMan> :)
[18:24] <daveake> Have asked for 9 consec. days to get it done in time
[18:24] <daveake> I have more devices :)
[18:25] <daveake> True ck lol
[18:25] <MrScienceMan> setup openvpn, get unlimtied internet
[18:25] <daveake> Noted :)
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> so will daveake be in Detroit for devils night?
[18:26] <daveake> No leaving for LA in an hour or so
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> :(
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> guess you'll save money on petrol that way
[18:26] <daveake> Then RVing around CA
[18:26] <daveake> 10mpg......lots of petrol
[18:27] <cuddykid> oh it's a nice 25C in LA
[18:27] <cuddykid> surprise surprise
[18:31] <daveake> The RV could be a laugh as a chase vehicle
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> isn't Detroit the city of Ford?
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> and more importantly
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Night
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> and RoboCop too
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_18zzf.htm
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> that guys been smoking some good shit
[19:14] <DrLuke> The same thing could be said about any philosopher
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[19:23] <Laurenceb_> 1) smoke weed
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> 2) ???
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> 3) brilliant philosophy
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[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
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[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi to finland hessu_
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[20:02] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[20:02] Possible future nick collision: jonsowman
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[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> well
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> it is night
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> and no one talks
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> thus I will sing around here
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> like an eccentric
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[20:08] <Laurenceb_> hi Dan-K2VOL
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> how is france?
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> i have an echo
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> wb DrLuke
[20:15] <DrLuke> thanks
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately you missed out me singing like an eccentric
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:16] <DrLuke> phew
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> but I would like to introduce a german technical term
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> which is the term for a screw terminal
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> and we call this "Lüsterklemme"
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> proof: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCsterklemme
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[20:57] <DrLuke> wee
[20:57] <DrLuke> kindle jailbroken
[20:57] <DrLuke> now I can finally get rid of the stupid screensavers
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[21:03] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> that didnt take long
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[21:10] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/ZuRJimNQ Nice clear morning, good for a #projecthorus launch! [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/254690156672606208]
[21:13] <DrLuke> Laurenceb_ it's really easy
[21:13] <DrLuke> even my dad could do it :)
[21:17] <DrLuke> aww jeez
[21:17] <DrLuke> cassini made some perfect screensavers
[21:17] <DrLuke> but they're 80px short of fitting on the screen ;(
[21:17] <DrLuke> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/622873main_pia14595-43_946-710.jpg
[21:17] <DrLuke> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/643563main_pia14605-946.jpg
[21:18] <DrLuke> although I could easily extend the black
[21:22] <DrLuke> ok
[21:22] <DrLuke> titan's gradient it too much for the display :)
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> on the topic of space related images, remember spacex tomorrow
[21:24] <DrLuke> oooh, that's tomorrow?
[21:24] <DrLuke> gotta watch the livestream
[21:26] <Darkside> ooooh
[21:26] <Darkside> what time?
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> actually
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> unless I've got the timezone wrong, 2:35 am Monday
[21:26] <DrLuke> utc?
[21:27] <DrLuke> or british whatever
[21:27] <DrLuke> I've always meant to make myself a world clock thing
[21:27] <Darkside> oh wait this is the falcon 9 heavy
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:27] <Darkside> is not*
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> it,s 8:35pm Florida
[21:27] <Darkside> this is just the smaller one isn't it?
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> this is a straight 9, not heavy
[21:28] <Darkside> ahh
[21:28] <Darkside> so a supply mission
[21:28] <DrLuke> http://i45.tinypic.com/15yu61t.jpg
[21:29] <Darkside> ahh yep, first official cargo mission
[21:29] <Darkside> awesome
[21:29] <fsphil> clash of the titan
[21:30] <Darkside> 11am my time
[21:30] <Darkside> thats nice
[21:30] <Darkside> 00:30 UTC i think
[21:30] <Darkside> well, 00:35
[21:31] <DrLuke> oh
[21:32] <DrLuke> that's only like 2:35 am for me
[21:32] <DrLuke> let me see when I have to get up on monday
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[21:32] <DrLuke> only 10ish am
[21:32] <DrLuke> probably more like 9ish
[21:33] <DrLuke> http://i45.tinypic.com/15yu61t.jpg
[21:33] <DrLuke> this one works really well on the display
[21:33] <DrLuke> ah crap wrong link
[21:34] <DrLuke> I meant this one: http://i46.tinypic.com/2m5crxd.jpg
[21:36] <fsphil> that kindle has a backlight?
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[21:36] <fsphil> I've seen the one without and it's really neat
[21:37] <DrLuke> no
[21:37] <DrLuke> the new frontlit kindle is only available in the us
[21:37] <DrLuke> and probably will remain so for months
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[21:38] <fsphil> a kindle with gps and mapping software would be amazing
[21:38] Nick change: jonsowman -> M0JSN
[21:38] <DrLuke> kindle HAB anyone?
[21:39] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[21:39] <fsphil> well, just for the ground station
[21:40] <DrLuke> well, that already is possible
[21:40] <DrLuke> it has an usb port and you can write your own "apps"
[21:40] <DrLuke> it basically just runs linux
[21:41] <DrLuke> I've read that people installed debian on it :P
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[21:50] <Adam012> Hi all, has anyone a few minutes to spare to help me with my GPS issue? I have tried connecting directly to the GPS with the sparkfun FTDI Basic 3.3V board and get this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/cazbuh/uBloxMax6GPSFTDIAttempt1.png
[21:50] <Adam012> I'm hoping that it means the board is working correctly?
[21:51] <fsphil> yep, those are NMEA strings although there is no satellite lock
[21:51] <DrLuke> yeah
[21:51] <Adam012> It's indoors and our walls are nearly 2ft thick!
[21:51] <DrLuke> try again outside
[21:51] <DrLuke> and point the antenna to the sky
[21:51] <Adam012> I'll see if I can get it outside...
[21:52] <DrLuke> sometimes a window will work, too
[21:59] <Adam012> Okay, the conservatory seemed to change things: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/cazbuh/uBloxMax6GPSFTDIAttempt2.png
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> 'real' readings will not have long strings of ,,,,,,
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> I noticed something
[22:00] <Adam012> ?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> when I have my arduino + ublox outside and get lock, then power down the arduino but leave the GPS powered
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> it will still have lock even inside
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> Adam012: that has partial lock
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> note the filled in date and time in gprmc
[22:02] <Adam012> I'm trying to work out whether the problem lies with the GPS module or the FTDI board.
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> wait a bit, and it should lock
[22:03] <DrLuke> Adam012: the "problem" is the ublox, the ftdi is transmitting the data perfectly fine
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[22:03] <Adam012> If I run the serial software uBlox Max 6 code from the ukhas website with a level converter and an Uno I get: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/cazbuh/uBloxMax6GPSSerialAttempt1.png
[22:04] <DrLuke> try the official ublox software
[22:04] <DrLuke> then you will see that your ublox doesn't "see" enough satellites
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> or learn to read the nmea
[22:05] <Adam012> I tried running a hardware serial connection using an Arduino Mini Pro 3.3V just vcc to vcc, gnd to gnd, rx to tx and tx to rx but when I try to upload code to the board the tx light flashes red three times and it says sync failed.
[22:05] <DrLuke> yeah but the ublox software has a neat visualization
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/
[22:06] <DrLuke> Adam012: when you still have an AVR plugged in the arduino what you're trying won't work
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> gpgsv, foe example
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> that too
[22:07] <DrLuke> Adam: your ublox might take a few minutes to get a lock from a cold start
[22:07] <DrLuke> it has to download the entire almanac data from the satellites, that takes some time
[22:10] <Adam012> msg DrLuke I thought the AVR was the ATMEL Chip? I'm not sure what you mean?
[22:11] <DrLuke> yes
[22:11] <DrLuke> Atmel is the company, AVR is the chip's name
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[22:12] <Adam012> Sorry, I mean that I thought the AVR Chip was the microprocessor on the Arduino board
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[22:12] <Darkside> it is
[22:12] <Darkside> well
[22:12] <Darkside> ATMega328
[22:14] <DrLuke> yes Adam012
[22:14] <DrLuke> it is still connected to the TX and RX pins
[22:14] <DrLuke> so when you want to use your arduino as an UART-USB-bridge, you have to unplug it
[22:14] <DrLuke> or it will pull TX and RX high
[22:14] <DrLuke> uart isn't designed to have multiple devices on the same line
[22:14] <Darkside> the other option is to upload a sketch that sets both pins 0 and 1 to input
[22:15] <DrLuke> yeah, that too
[22:15] <Adam012> Ah! Thank you, that clears everything upnicely. So, I need to run the arduino off a seperate power source once the code is uploaded!
[22:16] <Darkside> you don't need to, you just need to be aware of what the avr is doing
[22:17] <Adam012> That is a big help. I didn't realise that the pins for the UART were the same as the TX RX pins.
[22:18] <Adam012> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/cazbuh/uBloxMax6GPSFTDIAttempt3.png
[22:19] <DrLuke> ah, your gps finally got a lock
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE
[22:19] <DrLuke> brb arming ICBM
[22:19] <Adam012> I read the $GPGGA string thanks to that guide SpeedEvil!
[22:19] <fsphil> Darkside has the right equipment for doing that now
[22:20] <Adam012> I realised that but am too happy to care!
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[22:22] <Adam012> Any suggestions as to how I read the GPS data from the Arduino to check that it is receiving the NMEA strings from the GPS?
[22:24] <DrLuke> yes!
[22:24] <DrLuke> every string starts with a $
[22:24] <DrLuke> and ends with *xx
[22:24] <DrLuke> where xx if a hexadecimal number
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[22:25] <DrLuke> (so if you encounter * while iterating over your input, you know to expect only 2 more chars)
[22:25] <DrLuke> and the max length of a string is 82
[22:25] <DrLuke> so an array of size 83 will hold any nmea string
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[22:26] <Adam012> How can I connect the Arduino to my PC to receive the strings via serial?
[22:27] <Adam012> Could I just echo the stings to a couple of digital pins and connect them to the FTDI TX and RX?
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[22:30] <bertrik> I thought you could just use the arduino serial port from within an arduino program too
[22:30] <DrLuke> what you can do is connect the tx of the gps to the rx of the arduino
[22:30] <DrLuke> and then echo everything over serial
[22:31] <Adam012> Can the echo to serial be transmitted via a digital pin?
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[22:31] <DrLuke> no
[22:31] <DrLuke> only the tx and rx pin
[22:32] <DrLuke> the tx would automatically be transmitted to your pc
[22:32] <DrLuke> just like on the normal arduino
[22:34] <Adam012> Got you. I'll set it all up in the morning. Time to get some shut eye! Thank you all for your help and all the useful info. I can start playing around with this now.
[22:34] <DrLuke> sure, you're welcome
[22:34] <DrLuke> if you have any more questions, either ask or google arduino serial tutorial
[22:35] <Adam012> msg DrLuke Thanks for taking the time, it's really appreciated!
[22:35] <DrLuke> heh it's nothing
[22:36] <DrLuke> I remember times when I had similar problems to yours
[22:38] <Adam012> It seems like a steep learning curve at first (I haven't done any programming since I used Fortran 77 to write algorithms at uni
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[22:40] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/FgIqvOl6 Back in the truck and off to #projecthorus launch 29! [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/254712857466388480]
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[22:55] <Laurenceb_> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=%4052.74245933,-1.9226186666&hl=en&ll=52.742232,-1.922669&spn=0.000805,0.002642&sll=52.742459,1.922619&sspn=26.581682,86.572266&t=h&gl=uk&z=19
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> found him :P
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> never post your gps on irc :P
[23:03] <DrLuke> haha
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> i can see the top of those cooling towers from my window :D
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:04] <DrLuke> so he lives in the same city as you?
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> ...maybe
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> +-10miles
[23:07] <DrLuke> haha
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> where are you based?
[23:08] <DrLuke> secret!!!!
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> ah
[23:09] <DrLuke> https://maps.google.de/maps?q=baden-baden&hl=de&ie=UTF8&sll=48.895612,8.328804&sspn=1.449963,3.56781&hnear=Baden-Baden,+Karlsruhe,+Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg&t=m&z=11
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> looks like a bad neighbourhood
[23:10] <DrLuke> right in the black forest
[23:10] <DrLuke> lol, why?
[23:10] <DrLuke> baden-baden actually is considered the richest city in germany :V
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> baden-baden
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> badbad
[23:10] <DrLuke> :P
[23:10] <DrLuke> it actually means bathing-bathing!
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> ah
[23:11] <DrLuke> it's like when you take a bath while taking a bath
[23:11] <DrLuke> (I'm just kidding)
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2012/09/12/stm32-f3-discovery-dev-board-includes-some-extras/#comments
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> "But Arduino is evolving, right now. Arduino Due will probably release later this year"
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> ^lmao
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> or maybe the next year.. or something
[23:12] <DrLuke> > arduino
[23:12] <DrLuke> I hate arduino
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> baden-baden also houses the great german Television station by the name of SWR
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:14] <DrLuke> yeah they're fantastic
[23:14] <DrLuke> I'm really glad I pay my fees to them
[23:14] <DrLuke> because they churn out one interesting programme after another
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> btw, Pierre M. Krause had his birthday yesterday
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:15] <DrLuke> every time I listen to SWR3 I get cancer in my ears
[23:15] <DrLuke> it's always so expensive to get it removed
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:16] <DrLuke> remember the football world championship with that annoying song?
[23:16] <DrLuke> every time I listened to swr3, it was playing
[23:16] <DrLuke> and I mean
[23:16] <DrLuke> every, single, fucking, time
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:16] <fsphil> Rundfunk is a funky word
[23:17] <DrLuke> Now the first thing I do is turn off the radio when I sit in a car
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I remember the world championship 2010, and we listened to the game germany-england in the car when driving home from Lake Constance
[23:17] <DrLuke> instead I listen to my volvo roaring
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> and we listened to the game on SWR 1
[23:17] <DrLuke> oh yeah SWR1 and 2 are nice
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[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> thing is, as we progressed north, every hour they discussed how germany won the match
[23:18] <DrLuke> they often have interesting topics
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> and the replayed the SWR 1 hosts all the time!
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> on einslive, on Youfm and so on
[23:18] <DrLuke> haha
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> at one point we switched to hr4
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> and that is like a grandmother station with old music and stuff
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> so you can imagine how desperate we were
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:18] <DrLuke> haha yeah
[23:19] <DrLuke> something in my volvo gives off this high pitched noise when I accelerate
[23:19] <DrLuke> sounds fucking sweet
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:19] <DrLuke> I feel as if I was in a race car
[23:21] <bertrik> v-belt noise perhaps?
[23:22] <DrLuke> nah
[23:23] <DrLuke> it's the air inlet I think
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[23:28] <DrLuke> I also need a proper sound system so I can go cruising around with this playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1S63LcU2Bo
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah and SWR had, in the old times, these commercial break cartoons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWapLNKry-g&feature=related
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> DrLuke: passenger?
[23:36] <DrLuke> SpeedEvil: ?
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> 'high pitched sound'
[23:38] <DrLuke> no it's my turbo obviously
[23:39] <DrLuke> I really should check if my car has a turbo
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[23:45] <Laurenceb_> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4564&p=44651
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[23:45] <Darkside> right
[23:45] <Darkside> getting ready
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> launch coming up?
[23:46] <Darkside> about an hour away i think
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> cool
[23:46] <Darkside> we're just checking systems
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> but im going to get some sleep :-/
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> cya
[23:46] <Darkside> cya :P
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[23:52] <DrLuke> Good louck Darkside!
[23:52] <DrLuke> luck even
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[00:00] --- Sun Oct 7 2012