highaltitude.log.20120929

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[07:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Mailing List Plans"
[07:58] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Moving On"
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[09:57] <navrac> oops
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[10:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Conference 2012 Video"
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[11:15] <musti> Hello.
[11:16] <musti> I have been at the conference las week and am playing around with electronics to make a flight computer
[11:17] <musti> got u-blox 6 GPS breakout with the ceramic antenna and trying to evaluate it with u-center application on windows
[11:18] <musti> cant really get the GPS to lock on the window shelf, which seems rather unlikely
[11:18] <musti> any ideas?
[11:18] <eroomde> musti: is ucentre indicating anything at all that might provide more info? and how long have you been waiting?
[11:19] <musti> i am seeing some satellite detection columns turn blue, so about -30 signal on that
[11:20] <musti> it is running for at least 15min now, will leave it much longer
[11:20] <eroomde> it should have amanged with 15 minutes
[11:20] <eroomde> managed*
[11:20] <Darkside> musti: how many are blue?
[11:20] <eroomde> you've tried a power cycle?
[11:21] <musti> about a half turns blue, for a moment almost all and then none
[11:22] <Darkside> sounds like an antenna issue
[11:22] <musti> doesnt look like the unit would be rebooting or anything
[11:22] <Darkside> hmm
[11:22] <Darkside> take it outside into a clear area to be sure
[11:22] <eroomde> try a power cycle just incase it's got correupted ephemeris for some perverse reason
[11:22] <Darkside> mm, could be that
[11:22] <Darkside> is the window glazed or something?
[11:22] <eroomde> but if it's systematicly not working, then as Darside says it might well be a hardware problem
[11:23] <musti> powercycle does not solve the issue, will take it outside. however the phone gsp works just fine
[11:23] <Upu> get it under a clear sky musti
[11:24] <Upu> blue indicates it can see satellites but not strong enough
[11:24] <Upu> afk a few
[11:24] <musti> ok, will test it like that
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[11:26] <musti> 100mA should be enough for GPS right?
[11:27] <eroomde> should be
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[11:43] <Upu> if he's just bought that its a module I've been using for 2 months for testing so it absolutely does work
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[12:15] <musti> I am in my back yard at the moment, having a really poor GPS signal
[12:16] <musti> so the alck of signal is most probably not the case
[12:20] <MrScienc1Man> poor signal, or long locks?
[12:22] <eroomde> what kind of antenna is it?
[12:23] <musti> very poor signal, http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/screenshot20120929at131.png/
[12:24] <musti> the antenna is small ceramic, module breakout by upu
[12:24] <eroomde> you might have touched it inappropriately
[12:24] <cuddykid> what material do people use for the rod/arm that holds bits out at a distance to be videoed/photographed?
[12:25] <eroomde> with some charge
[12:25] <eroomde> cuddykid: milt steel
[12:25] <eroomde> mild*
[12:25] <Upu> musti did you order it recently ?
[12:25] <cuddykid> ah - cheers eroomde, looked like metal on most of them
[12:25] <Upu> and can I see a picture of the module as its being tested , see whats reound it
[12:26] <eroomde> cuddykid: that's a joke
[12:26] <eroomde> don;t use mild steel
[12:26] <eroomde> please
[12:26] <cuddykid> I did think it was a little iffy lol
[12:26] <cuddykid> but it does look like metal on previous flights
[12:26] <eroomde> just use plastic or carbon fibre or something
[12:27] <musti> upu, yes I did :)
[12:27] <cuddykid> yeah, I'll have a hunt around
[12:29] <Upu> ok well I know that module works as I've been using it personally for the last few months on testing
[12:29] <Upu> can I see a picture of your test rig pls ?
[12:30] <Upu> also whats powering it and how close is it ?
[12:31] <musti> sure, give me a minute. It is powered by CP2101 module, about 20cm from the computer
[12:35] <musti> here is the setup
[12:35] <musti> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16763365/photo-2.JPG
[12:36] <musti> is there a way to check noise levels in u-center
[12:38] <Upu> can't see anything wrong with that
[12:38] <Upu> not sure
[12:38] <Upu> that curtains not made of out wire is it ? :)
[12:38] <fsphil> try keeping the module flat?
[12:38] <Upu> stick it out of the window flat
[12:38] <fsphil> I don't recall if that antenna is directional
[12:38] <Upu> it gets a time ?
[12:38] <Upu> it doesn't make a massive difference
[12:38] <MrScienc1Man> i would go directly outside and test it
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[12:39] <MrScienc1Man> even with a clear view, i had throubles with getting a lock
[12:39] <MrScienc1Man> from a window, i mean
[12:39] <Upu> the chip antenna is noticably less sensitive
[12:40] <Upu> My suggestion is go find a field :)
[12:40] <MrScienc1Man> should the antenna be on the top side?
[12:40] <MrScienc1Man> would it make a difference?
[12:40] <Upu> it doesn't make a massive difference MrScienc1Man
[12:40] <fsphil> it's not upside down :)
[12:40] <fsphil> the picture is rotated
[12:40] <MrScienc1Man> its vertical
[12:40] <MrScienc1Man> :)
[12:41] <fsphil> right, lunch time. veggy soup!
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[12:44] <musti> well, I tried it ourside in the garden
[12:44] <musti> same results
[12:44] <musti> will go to the top of a high building here in london, see if that helps
[12:45] <Upu> outside is best
[12:50] <musti> did expect some kind of fix though compared to phones that dont really have a good antenna
[12:50] <eroomde> phones can get their ephemeris over a data network, which will help with the tracking even if snr is worse
[12:51] <musti> true, hmm
[12:51] <eroomde> if you're struggling to get the ephemeris in the first place, you'll have ltitle chance
[12:51] <musti> let me try the assisted GPS lock through u-center
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[12:57] <MrScienc1Man> dont phones mostly use wifi AP's MACs to get fix
[12:57] <MrScienc1Man> especially in cities
[12:57] <Darkside> google has a geolocation service
[12:57] <Darkside> that can send some ephemeris data back i think
[12:57] <musti> AssistNow of u-center requires a password
[12:57] <musti> what a shame
[12:57] <Darkside> or some kind of assist data
[12:57] <Darkside> musti: if its taken this long, then i doubt assistnow will work
[12:58] <musti> to bad I cant give it a try :)
[12:58] <Darkside> all assistnow will do is give you the ephemeris data
[12:58] <Darkside> you've taken it outside?
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/q2czO.png
[12:58] <musti> sure I did
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> stm32f1 board in 10m chamber ^
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[12:59] <Laurenceb_> theres a 6th harmonic of the 72mhz cpu creeping in around 434
[12:59] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: oh wow
[12:59] <Darkside> also check out the one around 200MHz
[12:59] <MrScienc1Man> Darkside: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Positioning_System
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> 3rd harmonic
[13:00] <Darkside> MrScienc1Man: yeah i think it sends back a position somehow
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[13:00] <Laurenceb_> that 6th is around -100dBm at 434
[13:00] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: how was this test done?
[13:01] <Darkside> 10m chamber, how far away was the rx antenna?
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> 10m test chamber
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> 5m
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> but its a really high gain thing
[13:01] <Darkside> how was the stm32 powered?
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> log period yagi
[13:01] <Randomskk> what was the stm32 doing?
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> lipo cell
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[13:01] <Darkside> ahh ok
[13:01] <Darkside> so no long cables to radiate
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> logging data to sd card
[13:01] <Darkside> thats just off the board..
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> nope
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> yes
[13:01] <Darkside> thats horiffic
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> lol
[13:02] <Darkside> i'd love to see an EMC test with the rpi
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> remember the yagi has like 15dBi gain
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> its massive__
[13:02] <Darkside> fsphil's blocks DAB :D
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> about 2.5m long
[13:02] <Darkside> when playing certain files in mplayer
[13:02] <Randomskk> what's the yagi centre freq and bandwidth?
[13:02] <Darkside> Randomskk: log periodic
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: not sure
[13:03] <Darkside> not a yagi
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah sorry
[13:03] <Darkside> dunno how gain works with a log periodic
[13:03] <Randomskk> fine yes
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> its high gain across the whole range, but it will peak in some places
[13:03] <Darkside> i've seen the kind of antennas you mean tho Laurenceb_
[13:03] <Darkside> theres a standard one used for EMC tests
[13:03] <Randomskk> they do have really insane gains and bandwidths
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> yes
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[13:03] <Randomskk> like a whole order of magnitude of bandwidth
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> then and of the antenni is about 1.5m from the test board
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> its that big :P
[13:04] <Darkside> theres gotta be some weakness of them
[13:04] <Darkside> i mean, the gain will be dependent on frequency
[13:04] <Randomskk> well yes
[13:05] <Randomskk> the gain shows periodic variation with the log of the frequency
[13:05] <Randomskk> hence the name really
[13:05] <Laurenceb_> the noise floor of the spectrum analyser is around -105dBm, so you need high gain
[13:06] <Darkside> mm you never seem to get a spec-an with a low noise floor do you
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> but yeah im pretty sure that 6th harmonic is going to decrease rfm22b/si4432 reception on 434
[13:06] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i wonder how wide that peak is
[13:07] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: so use an stm32f4
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> heh
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> or just shift the cpu frequency a little
[13:07] <Randomskk> harmonics at 360 and then 480
[13:07] <Randomskk> clears 434 nicely
[13:07] <Darkside> hehe
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> or move the 868
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[13:07] <Darkside> i need to measure the output of this boost converter circuit
[13:08] <Darkside> im pretty sure its radiated noise, not noise on the power rail
[13:08] <zyp> F4 has some spread spectrum mode in the PLL to reduce peak EMI
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> im not sure oif this thing passes yet
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[13:08] <Laurenceb_> the chamber hasnt been calibrated
[13:09] <Darkside> what is determined as a pass?
[13:09] <Randomskk> zyp: oh yea, I remember. it has so many clever things.
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> and the antenni and cabling has recantly been redone
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> *recently
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[13:09] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: has to be below a mask
[13:09] <Darkside> or are you comparing to something that is known to pass
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> yes, the other trace is something that passes
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately its higher than the thing that passes
[13:09] <Darkside> ok
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[13:11] <Laurenceb_> the 216MHz peak is less than 2KHz wide
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> looks like about 1KHz 3dB width, but im limited by the analyzer bandwidth
[13:12] <Darkside> probably just a carrier then
[13:12] <Darkside> the window size is probably a few hundred hz
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> yeah its 1.5KHz
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[13:35] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Conference 2012 Video"
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[13:49] <Laurenceb_> theres a 2.1MHz SEPIC convertor on the board as well as the stm32f1
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> and bluetooth, but its turned off
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[15:09] <DrLuke> So, I'm looking at this antenna, and it say in the datasheet that it needs a proximity ground plane: http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Linx-Technologies/ANT-868-CW-RH-SMA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuBTKBKvsBmlOBg0H7cD5uyL%2fAdAVDlZWY%3d
[15:09] <DrLuke> anybody know what that is?
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[15:27] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[15:27] <Randomskk> hi
[15:30] <fsphil> hullo
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> Hull o
[15:31] <jcoxon> so i think i might do a floater flight
[15:31] <Randomskk> cool
[15:31] <Randomskk> how?
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[15:32] <jcoxon> i think a latex 30km+ float
[15:32] <jcoxon> on weekend 19-21 oct
[15:32] <Randomskk> pinhole thing?
[15:32] <jcoxon> nah
[15:32] <jcoxon> 1600g howyee
[15:32] <fsphil> did steve get anywhere with his project?
[15:32] <Randomskk> ah
[15:32] <Randomskk> and just aim to float it
[15:33] <Randomskk> see if you can match apex alpha :P
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[15:33] <fsphil> hah
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[15:33] <fsphil> that would be a great flight if it got that far
[15:33] <jcoxon> well i think we should do ssdv as well
[15:34] <fsphil> there's a board with aprs here mostly ready to go
[15:34] <jcoxon> the network is sufficent that we could pull it off
[15:35] <jcoxon> the question is - build it from bits i have - c328 + gumstix
[15:35] <fsphil> be a good tests of Upu's YAGI
[15:35] <jcoxon> or get a new camera (linksprite) and use an arduino
[15:36] <fsphil> as there is a good chance of loosing it, I'd go with the cheaper option
[15:36] <jcoxon> thats the problem
[15:36] <jcoxon> the cheaper option is to use bits i have
[15:36] <jcoxon> as they are redundent really
[15:36] <fsphil> true
[15:37] <jcoxon> that gumstix is 4 years old
[15:37] <fsphil> does the gumstix have a uart?
[15:37] <jcoxon> it has lots!
[15:37] <jcoxon> 4
[15:37] <fsphil> oh loads
[15:37] <jcoxon> its also got a onboard ublox 4
[15:37] <fsphil> one for gps, one for camera, an done for ntx2
[15:37] <jcoxon> yes i said ublox 4
[15:37] <jcoxon> the best ublox you can get
[15:37] <fsphil> I've only used >=5
[15:37] <jcoxon> none of this set to airborne mode
[15:38] <fsphil> it handles the cold ok?
[15:38] <fsphil> if it floats, it's going to get very nippy
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:38] <jcoxon> thats true
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> i used to have a ublox4 hanging about
[15:39] <fsphil> the arduino might use less power too
[15:39] <jcoxon> maybe simpe is better
[15:39] <fsphil> but I don't know what the gumstix is like
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[15:40] <fsphil> I don't think anyone has flown a linksprite yet
[15:41] <jcoxon> i think i'll go down the gumstix route
[15:41] <jcoxon> it'll generate its own heat
[15:41] <jcoxon> will have a play
[15:42] <jcoxon> thought i'd do a conference badge hellschreiber beacon as well
[15:42] <fsphil> hehe
[15:42] <fsphil> LED beacon
[15:42] <jcoxon> maybe solar powered
[15:42] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[15:42] <fsphil> I need to order up the bits for my badge
[15:43] <fsphil> anyone got a nexus 7 have any opinions? worth it?
[15:44] <Randomskk> got one
[15:44] <Randomskk> love it
[15:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Mailing List Plans"
[15:44] <Randomskk> use it for about three things
[15:44] <Randomskk> 99% of which is watching films streamed over my wifi while in bed (from my media server)
[15:44] <Randomskk> the rest is reading email in bed and catching up on twitter/RSS in bed
[15:44] <Randomskk> it's so amazing for lying in bed watching a film
[15:44] <Randomskk> I don't think I've taken mine out of the house
[15:44] <fsphil> how the battery life?
[15:44] <Randomskk> great
[15:44] <zyp> I'm currently visiting a friend that got one, so I've played a bit with it
[15:44] <Randomskk> 9hr of films
[15:44] <Randomskk> screen is fantastic
[15:44] <fsphil> ah sweet
[15:44] <Randomskk> IPS so colours are great
[15:45] <Randomskk> and viewing angle is insane
[15:45] <Randomskk> it's light and nice
[15:45] <fsphil> yes I seen a chinese one with a 10 inch screen -- when looking directly on half of it was dark
[15:45] <zyp> the only disadvantage I've found is the lack of cellular connectivity
[15:45] <Randomskk> lol
[15:45] <Randomskk> zyp: yea basically
[15:45] <fsphil> right, just wifi
[15:45] <Randomskk> for me that's not a huge concern. I could in theory wifi tether it to my phone but I never take it out of the house anyway
[15:45] <zyp> and apart from that I don't really feel I have any use for one, so I'm not going to buy one
[15:46] <fsphil> I'm considering it for use while travelling, instead of the laptop
[15:46] <zyp> I've got computers at home, I don't need a tablet
[15:46] <Randomskk> mhre I'd still take a laptop travelling
[15:46] <Randomskk> zyp: I do too but it's great for films and news and twitter in bed
[15:46] <zyp> I've got a TV for watching movies on, I don't need to watch movies in bed
[15:46] <Randomskk> fair enough then
[15:47] <zyp> I don't really understand the appeal for doing anything else than sleep or sex in bed :p
[15:47] <Randomskk> beds are comfy
[15:47] <Randomskk> I'm a student so it's not like I have much other furniture
[15:47] <fsphil> lol
[15:47] <zyp> my computer chair is also comfy
[15:47] <Randomskk> that said I now have a really nice projector which is taking over for film watching
[15:47] <zyp> or my couch
[15:47] <Randomskk> my bed is still the place everyone sits to watch it though :P
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[15:48] <fsphil> I need a laptop case/backpack combo
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[15:48] <Randomskk> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1vgi82yiz4gv0g/2012-09-28%2015.40.38.jpg
[15:48] <Randomskk> :D
[15:49] <Randomskk> those are 24" monitors for size comparison :P
[15:49] <fsphil> I see you like to play a game
[15:49] <Randomskk> a nice game of chess, indeed
[15:49] <Randomskk> it's like a 90" screen
[15:49] <Randomskk> so happy.
[15:49] <fsphil> what resolution?
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[15:50] <Randomskk> 720p
[15:50] <Randomskk> so 1280x720
[15:50] <fsphil> not bad
[15:50] <Randomskk> yea
[15:50] <Randomskk> works pretty nicely for me
[15:50] <fsphil> I had one for a while which was only 640x480
[15:50] <Randomskk> that's a bit annoying for films
[15:50] <fsphil> very
[15:50] <zyp> I considered buying a projector last year
[15:51] <zyp> but I weighed it against a TV and concluded that a 60" plasma was much more value for the money
[15:51] <Randomskk> how come?
[15:51] <fsphil> I'm not a fan of plasma screens
[15:51] <Randomskk> we have a 38" plasma at home which is nice and all
[15:52] <fsphil> they seem to shimmer, and have a grid pattern
[15:52] <Randomskk> for me there's no way I could have a TV, still moving between home and uni six times a year
[15:52] <Randomskk> projector works very nicely
[15:52] <zyp> I graduated uni last year, so that's not an issue for me :p
[15:53] <zyp> anyway, consider the advantages of a projector: larger screen and more portable
[15:54] <fsphil> needs a clear white wall
[15:54] <eroomde> unless you have a cave, i prefer a tv
[15:54] <fsphil> I had a screen for mine but it took up too much space
[15:54] <eroomde> i'm really impressed with this tv at work
[15:54] <zyp> and then the disadvantages: lower resolution (at least in the same price range as a tv), lower brightness, lower contrast, limited lifetime of lamp
[15:55] <Randomskk> fsphil: or a near-white wall
[15:55] <Randomskk> eyes compensate for white balance almost instantly
[15:55] <Randomskk> my creme wall is fine
[15:56] <Randomskk> but yea, basically the downside is it won't work if the room is very bright already
[15:56] <fsphil> my wallpaper has a texture on it :(
[15:56] <fsphil> actually it's horrible, I'm gonna get rid of it
[15:56] <Randomskk> heavy curtains and a north facing window means I'm very happy :P but mainly the portability is essential for me
[15:56] <zyp> so I found that a 60" plasma would be plenty big for my living room, and a 1080p projector would be almost twice the cost
[15:56] <eroomde> yes heavy curtains are a must
[15:56] <eroomde> but i found having to 'prep' the room when we had a projector at my previous place quite tiresome
[15:56] <zyp> and that's how I concluded that the TV had much better value for the money
[15:57] <eroomde> vs just flicking the tv on
[15:57] <eroomde> and also the tv has more positioning options
[15:57] <eroomde> in that you don;t additionally need to mount the projector somewhere else
[15:57] <eroomde> and friends tend not to leave pint glases on thin-edged tvs whereas they do on projectors on a coffee table
[15:58] <zyp> good luck trying to balance a pint glass on the razor-edge of the TV I bought :p
[15:58] <eroomde> yes indeed
[15:58] <eroomde> my thinking too
[16:01] <eroomde> well, i have procrastinated for fully about three hours now
[16:01] <eroomde> this is terrible
[16:01] <eroomde> trying to work with a hangover and it being a vaguely nice day outside
[16:01] <eroomde> i think i will abandon ship
[16:01] <Randomskk> always hard
[16:01] <Randomskk> it is saturday
[16:01] <eroomde> yes
[16:02] <eroomde> and i am in the office
[16:02] <eroomde> i have to do an eagle footprint for the pathological lna/saw antenna front end chip you used Randomskk
[16:02] <Randomskk> :(
[16:02] <Randomskk> haha
[16:02] <Randomskk> enjoy that
[16:02] <Randomskk> god what a pain
[16:02] <eroomde> and the thought of it was enough to maker me watch about 4 episodes of Moon Machines on youtube
[16:02] <Randomskk> the SUPERNEMO package?
[16:02] <fsphil> oh dear
[16:02] <Darkside> looooool
[16:03] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/supernemo.png
[16:03] <eroomde> yes that one
[16:03] <Randomskk> what a great package name
[16:03] <eroomde> i did spend a while seeing if it already existed
[16:03] <eroomde> a task which i suppose uou could call
[16:03] <eroomde> findingnemo
[16:04] <fsphil> beat me to it
[16:04] <Randomskk> if that pun had a face I'd punch it
[16:04] <eroomde> alas, i will have to lay it out
[16:04] <eroomde> but possibly not today
[16:04] <Randomskk> fun fact about that thing
[16:04] <eroomde> i would rather drink a bit by the river or something
[16:04] <eroomde> go on
[16:04] <Randomskk> antenna input is a DC short to ground
[16:04] <eroomde> give me the DL on it before i commit it into this design
[16:04] <Randomskk> which is fine
[16:04] <eroomde> ah right yes
[16:04] <Randomskk> but bear in mind when continuity testing
[16:05] <eroomde> so when i debug, don;t panic
[16:05] <Randomskk> or you'll do what I did
[16:05] <Randomskk> and royally fuck it all up trying to replace the chip
[16:05] <Randomskk> I did in the end manually reflow that thing
[16:05] <fsphil> ooch
[16:05] <Randomskk> off the board and a new one on
[16:05] <Randomskk> same problem
[16:05] <eroomde> that's very annoying
[16:05] <Randomskk> in the process tore the antenna off, pulling the traces
[16:05] <eroomde> that's swear at the ceiling annoying
[16:05] <Randomskk> at 3 in the morning
[16:06] <Randomskk> in the lab
[16:06] <eroomde> it's the lack of oxygen
[16:06] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6942136151
[16:07] <Randomskk> what a mess
[16:07] <Randomskk> in the end I scraped off some soldermask and put a little bit of wire in to connect the antenna
[16:07] <Randomskk> then covered the whole affair in epoxy
[16:07] <eroomde> not the happiest of things is it
[16:07] <Randomskk> (you'll note the broken-off tabs on the antenna mount too)
[16:07] <eroomde> i'm making jsut a little gps front end board
[16:07] <Randomskk> it is definitely not the happiest of things
[16:07] <Randomskk> lovely chip though
[16:08] <Randomskk> SAW+LNA+SAW
[16:08] <Randomskk> sexy
[16:08] <Randomskk> great noise rejection
[16:08] <eroomde> which will spit the bits out to a header, probably lvds eventually
[16:08] <Randomskk> almost compensates for the awful connection between the antenna
[16:08] <Randomskk> cool
[16:08] <eroomde> so it can be installed ina rocket nose and run back to a logger
[16:08] <Randomskk> ah yes, nice
[16:08] <Randomskk> your job sounds like great fun
[16:08] <Randomskk> except maybe the making a supernemo package in eagle on a saturday thing
[16:08] <Randomskk> then again I did it saturday night too so w/e
[16:09] <eroomde> well, the alternative was to sit with lemsip and/or a bloody mary feeling hung over and watching scrapheap challenge re-runs on More 4
[16:09] <Randomskk> that doesn't sound bad
[16:09] <eroomde> so i thought i'd have a stab of coming to work.
[16:09] <Randomskk> ugh. no one put the bin out on friday so now we have a full rubbish bin and two weeks before it gets collected
[16:09] <eroomde> but yes the work is fun
[16:10] <eroomde> v varied
[16:10] <Randomskk> indeed
[16:11] <fsphil> I miss scrapheap
[16:11] <eroomde> same
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[16:15] <eroomde> thought a part of our site is becoming a kind of scrapheap with a bent towards rocketry bodges
[16:16] <eroomde> lots of plumbing, injectors, swagelok fittings, valves and stuff
[16:16] <eroomde> though*
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[16:23] <eroomde> right, offocialy abandoning ship
[16:23] <eroomde> ttfn
[16:24] <fsphil> adios
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[17:34] <DoYouKnow> any ideas on a pinout for this receiver module?: http://dx.com/p/nt-r02bm-250-450mhz-ook-ask-receiver-module-dc-5-0v-150614?item=1
[17:34] <Darkside> no
[17:34] <Darkside> we don't use anything like that
[17:34] <DoYouKnow> ok
[17:35] <Darkside> too crap performance
[17:35] <Darkside> frequency drift, etc
[17:35] <DoYouKnow> ok
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[17:55] <jcoxon> back
[17:56] <Upu> just use an NTX2 DoYouKnow
[17:56] <Upu> wb jcoxon
[17:58] <jcoxon> Upu, smooth
[17:58] <Darkside> hmm
[17:58] <Upu> nice that isn't it ? :)
[17:58] <Darkside> boo
[17:58] <Upu> only works for cool people
[17:58] <navrac> I found two alternatives to the rfm using the same chipset - going to see if they are any better for avoiding the sweep in on powerup
[17:59] <Darkside> navrac: any of them cheaper?
[17:59] <Upu> got links ?
[17:59] <navrac> one is one isnt - only just ordered them - 10 days from china :-(
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[18:00] <navrac> but they seem to have the correct heatsink holes under the chip which the rfm omits
[18:00] <navrac> one is pin compatible
[18:00] <navrac> i'll see if i can dig up the links
[18:00] <Darkside> same footprint?
[18:00] <navrac> one is
[18:00] <Darkside> ooh
[18:00] <navrac> or looks to be anyway
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[18:03] <navrac> right this is the non compatible expensive one:
[18:03] <navrac> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/si4432-433m-rf-long-distance-wireless-telemetry-module-1700m-.html
[18:04] <navrac> and this is the cheapo
[18:04] <navrac> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/si4432-433m-wireless-transceiver-module-distance-1500m.html
[18:04] <Darkside> ahh it has a level converer on it
[18:04] <Darkside> ok thats not going to be pin compatible
[18:04] <Upu> whats the second image on the cheap one
[18:05] <Upu> can't we just make this module ourselves ?
[18:05] <navrac> a mistake - tried to find it at i saw that and wanted one or two for testing - but i couldnt find it
[18:05] <navrac> yes we could
[18:05] <Upu> !goole si4432 +reference +schematic
[18:05] <Darkside> Upu: serving suggestion
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:06] <Darkside> it'd probably be cheaper to buy these boards than buy the chips themselves though
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> i have some si4432+stm32f1 board
[18:06] <Upu> I know but if we make them it will bring the size down and we can use our spec comps
[18:06] <Darkside> tbh i'd use a Si1000 if i was going to make my own board
[18:07] <navrac> First thing is to sort out the lousy cooling on the chip to stop it drifting everytiem you turn tx on and off
[18:07] <Darkside> and just program the 8051 core on it directly
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> navrac: try tcxo
[18:07] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: uses way more power though
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> hardly
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> you can get them that use about 3ma
[18:08] <Darkside> will that keep them at the right temp even with an ambient of -50?
[18:08] <navrac> well ill see if these ones a) arrive b) are any good
[18:08] <Laurenceb_> TCXO
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> not OCXO
[18:09] <navrac> sadly got carried away shopping - bought a usbee logic analyser and some rotary encoders amongst other things
[18:09] <Darkside> ahh ok now i know how TCXO's work :P
[18:10] <navrac> I was looking for a 2.4ghz preamp for my video link at the time
[18:10] <Darkside> its a crystal and a varactor
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> to be really clever use VCTCXO
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> with DAC off the micro
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> and gps 1pps
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> to a timer
[18:12] <Darkside> hehe
[18:12] <Darkside> that;'d be cool
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> you can get VCTCXO with 1ppm error and +-1ppm tunability
[18:13] <navrac> interesting idea - link it up to the si4432 to act as the power amp
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> well
[18:14] <navrac> opens up lots of modulation possibilities
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> si4432 has clk input and output
[18:14] <navrac> mind you im quite happy with rtty
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> you could tie the micro and si4432 to the same clock
[18:15] Action: jcoxon is happy he documented something for once
[18:16] <navrac> I'm just happy at my age to remember where I put the documentation
[18:17] <fsphil> hehe
[18:17] <fsphil> I need to document more
[18:17] <jcoxon> i actually wrote down on my wiki how i did my last Pegasus payload
[18:17] <navrac> I have several boxes full of scraps of paper from my desk that hold invaluble information
[18:18] <navrac> sadly no index tho
[18:18] <navrac> and i cant read the writing or understand the sketches
[18:18] <jcoxon> so i guess my planned floater flight will be a Pegasus flight (as its got a gumstix)
[18:19] <navrac> I'm trying to work out now work has temporarily quietened down on which project to concentrate on
[18:20] <navrac> its either home made superpressure or 1g pressure release valve or video downlink or more weight and powersaving stuff
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> navrac: id be happy to help out with a superpressure
[18:21] <Laurenceb_> but i think superpressure needs a release valve
[18:21] <navrac> thats the lowest attractiveness at the moment as i burnt a mark in the dining room table building the last one
[18:21] <Laurenceb_> heh
[18:22] <navrac> mind you the release valve manometer also stained the wooden floor
[18:22] <Laurenceb_> i want to try adhesive
[18:22] <navrac> Ironing worked well with heptax
[18:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah if you launch superpressure fully inflated you need a release value on it
[18:22] <Laurenceb_> i see
[18:23] <navrac> Ive tried 3 small superpressures now, the shape is quite crucial to avoid ripping
[18:23] <Darkside> hehe ordering the hardware for a 5W ATV downlink soon..
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> what pressure did you reach?
[18:24] <navrac> hmm I've got a 100mW coupled into a 3 turn helical at 2.4ghz running - just trying to scrounge a 4 foot dish for the rx end
[18:24] <Darkside> navrac: yeah you're going to need a shitload of gain at the bottom end for that to work
[18:24] <Darkside> and you'll probably want more than 100mW on the balloon
[18:24] <Darkside> we're doing 5W on 70cm
[18:25] <Darkside> the link budget for 23cm was too difficult to work with
[18:25] <navrac> I know.. Ive done long 2.4 and 5.8ghz long links on the ground
[18:25] <Darkside> esp for FM TV which is what all those higher frequency modules do
[18:25] <Darkside> for a 1W 23cm transmit, into a small helix on the payload, we'd need something like 30dBi gain, plus a preamp on the ground
[18:25] <navrac> at the moment apart fro mthe dish the other sticking point is a really low noise preamp
[18:25] <Darkside> and that only gave us a path of about 40km
[18:26] <Darkside> so we had to be in a small circle beneath the balloon to even get a picture
[18:26] <fsphil> ATV is overrated :)
[18:26] <Darkside> lol
[18:26] <fsphil> </lies>
[18:26] <Darkside> well 5W ATV should get us a fair way
[18:26] <Darkside> hell, anyone with a tv tuner and a preamp within a few hundred km should be able to see it
[18:26] <navrac> I'm happy to stay underneath it
[18:27] <Darkside> navrac: you'll also have to track the balloon well
[18:27] <Darkside> with that kind of gain you're gonna need to point it very accurately
[18:27] <Darkside> i'd try and get more downlink power..
[18:27] <Darkside> whats the class licence limit?
[18:27] <navrac> yep I know - I've got a motorised telescope mount half controlled that should support a 4 foot dish
[18:28] <navrac> err 100mW officially
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> someone could make a rockoon
[18:28] Action: Laurenceb_ runs off
[18:28] <Darkside> heh
[18:31] <navrac> in answer to someones earlier question - I managed just over 1 psi on a circular 0.8m balloon
[18:32] <navrac> 1.1 something from memory
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[18:32] <navrac> but i'd need to check the box of papers
[18:33] <navrac> basically about 30% more than the qualatex ones
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> nice
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> thats easily enough for superpressure
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> what was it made from?
[18:33] <Lucasbuck> has anyone got a recomendation for an SDR dongle that works well-ish with ubuntu?
[18:34] <Darkside> Lucasbuck: the rtl dongles ing eneral are fine
[18:34] <Darkside> if you don't want >1GHz then it really doesn't matter what tuner you get
[18:34] <navrac> something simialr to heptax - i thought id ordered heptax but got something else by mistake - I need to consult the box for what it was - theres one othe rcommon one - anyone prod my memory please?
[18:35] <Darkside> Lucasbuck: upu sells the e4000 ezcap dongles
[18:35] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70
[18:36] <Darkside> and for 434MHz balloon stuff, you can put a HABAmp in front of it for better sensivity and out of band interference rejection: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[18:36] <Upu> they aren't e4000
[18:36] <navrac> e4000's are all gone arent they?
[18:36] <Lucasbuck> its more just for testing
[18:36] <Lucasbuck> not for actual flight tracking
[18:36] <Upu> no they are another one, E4000's are like gold dust now
[18:37] Action: jcoxon wants a new funcube pro plus
[18:37] <Upu> they work fine for what we do though
[18:37] <navrac> I use mine for radio 4.... much prefer the fcd
[18:37] <navrac> although the pro plus looks tempting
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> navrac: interesting
[18:39] <Lucasbuck> cool, thx for links
[18:39] <Lucasbuck> reading up on them now
[18:39] <navrac> eldest daughters turned up - better be sociable
[18:45] <Lucasbuck> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EzTV668-USB-DVB-T-Receiver-E4000-USA-Elonics-Tuner-Realtek-RTL2832U-EzCAP-668-/150816730652?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item231d60ae1c#ht_2548wt_977
[18:45] <Lucasbuck> an e4000? ^
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/comradethompski/5647529866/in/photostream
[18:45] <jcoxon> Laurenceb!
[18:46] <Upu> it could be Lucasbuck
[18:46] <Upu> but they may not be
[18:47] <Upu> really there isn't any difference for you what we are doing
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[18:58] <Lucasbuck> so you use software to decode via the dongle
[18:58] <Lucasbuck> then run dl-fldigi aswell?
[18:59] <G0DJA> Erm, were the UKHAS Mailing List Plans (for moderating it) ever posted to the mailing list, or was it just discussed and voted on by those who attended conference this year, because I don't remember, and cannot find, a discussion on the mailing list...
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[19:01] <daveake> Lucasbuck Yes just so
[19:01] <Lucasbuck> cool
[19:01] <daveake> I use VAC (Virtual Audio Cable) to link the SDR o/p to dl-fldigi i/p
[19:01] <Darkside> daveake: he's on linux
[19:01] <Darkside> in which case there are a few different loopback systems available
[19:02] <Darkside> pulseaudio does it easiest
[19:02] <Darkside> as each audio sink has a monitor source
[19:02] <Darkside> ok i really need to sleep
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[19:06] <cuddykid> received about 50 handwritten letters from school kids
[19:06] <cuddykid> some of the questions are hilarious - "Did you have to get permission from NASA so when the police turn up you can show them your NASA permit"
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[19:07] <eroomde> eventide
[19:21] <chris_99> anyone here into microhybrid rockets?
[19:27] <eroomde> that's a bit niche in a samplesize as small as this channel
[19:27] <eroomde> but i have done some hybrid stuff
[19:27] <eroomde> and rocketry in general
[19:27] <eroomde> what are you thinking?
[19:32] <Upu> uk schools cuddykid ?
[19:33] <cuddykid> Upu: one UK school in particular - the teacher set them it for a home work apparently lol
[19:33] <Upu> lol
[19:33] <cuddykid> "I want to be your assistant one day"
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[19:33] <Upu> I have a school teacher coming to see me on Monday about doing a launch
[19:34] <cuddykid> someone asked if I can send his Dad up lol
[19:34] <Upu> "With enough gas yes but your Dad will freeze and die"
[19:34] <cuddykid> yeah, a few schools have got in contact - it's good as it's inspiring the young kids
[19:34] <cuddykid> lol
[19:36] <eroomde> you'll have to do individual responses to all of them
[19:36] <eroomde> good luck
[19:37] <cuddykid> each one has asked about 10 questions - a lot of repeating - I'm just picking a few out and answering them
[19:37] <eroomde> was v dissapointed when i got a standard-issue reply when i wrote to alan shearer about nutrition at primary school
[19:37] <cuddykid> haha
[19:41] <chris_99> sorry twas afk eroomde, i'm looking at ordering a simple NOS rocket motor http://www.eclipserocketry.com/catalog/index.php
[19:41] <chris_99> is that the kind of thing you made?
[19:42] <eroomde> looks fun, have made a hybrid before
[19:42] <chris_99> using NOS bulbs?
[19:42] <eroomde> but biprop work mostly
[19:42] <eroomde> yes, used N20
[19:43] <chris_99> yeah did you use the bulbs though, or a N2O tank?
[19:43] <eroomde> ah, a tank
[19:43] <eroomde> our stuff was bigger
[19:43] <chris_99> ooh sounds fancy, do you have a webpage on that?
[19:45] <eroomde> well, have a video of our liquid-liquid engine
[19:45] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkGlKYRISFM
[19:45] <eroomde> that's a bolted down test of our hovering rocket
[19:46] <chris_99> ooh that's impressive, so what was the fuel for that?
[19:46] <Upu> I have put eds talk up on youtube btw chris_99
[19:47] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LEaf1QLRUY&feature=player_detailpage#t=1802s
[19:47] <chris_99> ooh sweet, thanks
[19:47] <eroomde> N20 was the oxidiser, isopropyl alcohol the fuel
[19:47] <eroomde> ta Upu
[19:49] <chris_99> funky, i didn't think about a liquid-liquid fuel
[19:49] <chris_99> do you know where i'd go about obtaining something like this http://www.eclipserocketry.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=58 as it say's it's not shipable
[19:49] <chris_99> on his site
[19:50] <chris_99> (Plastic Ignitor Cord)
[19:50] <eroomde> usually you have to pickup
[19:50] <chris_99> what kind of plastic actually is it
[19:50] <eroomde> say at a launch day the seller is also attending
[19:50] <eroomde> some kind of pyrogen in a tube
[19:50] <chris_99> hmm, could i just use nichrome instead you reckon?
[19:51] <eroomde> to do what?
[19:51] <chris_99> to ignite the fuel
[19:51] <eroomde> i would say no
[19:51] <eroomde> it would just be cooled down
[19:52] <eroomde> big mass flow of cold liquid over it
[19:52] <chris_99> ah right, darn
[19:52] <eroomde> it takes quite a lot to get hybrids going
[19:52] <BrainDamage> coat the wire with a substance with low self ignition point wich is solid
[19:52] <eroomde> people do uses estes motors
[19:52] <eroomde> take them apart
[19:53] <eroomde> and cut a chunk of grain off and ignite that with an e-match
[19:53] <BrainDamage> it'll act as thermal resistance and ignition point
[19:53] <chris_99> oh that's a good idea, so you just end up with black powder essentially
[19:53] <eroomde> yep
[19:54] <chris_99> yeah i'm hoping to convert an estes type rocket to use a hybrid motor
[19:54] <chris_99> did you make a circuit that handles the ejection of the nozzle, as that's something i'd be looking at making
[19:56] <eroomde> we didn;t eject any nozzles
[19:56] <DrLuke> http://www.astronomynow.com/news/n1209/25comet/#.UGMQXQyVuJI.facebook
[19:56] <eroomde> that sounds a bit painful
[19:56] <DrLuke> win
[19:56] <DrLuke> 1000 hab points to anyone who can photograph it from a hab
[19:57] <chris_99> hmm, how did your rockets land eroomde?
[19:57] <eroomde> DrLuke: awesome
[19:57] <eroomde> chris_99: parachute
[19:57] <chris_99> yeah but how did you eject the parachute?
[19:58] <eroomde> oh
[19:58] <eroomde> pyrotechnic protractors
[19:58] <eroomde> that has nothing to do with nozzles. nozzles are designed to accelerate the combustion products to produce thrust
[19:59] <chris_99> sorry by nozzle i meant cone
[19:59] <eroomde> we used pyrotechnic protractors sequenced by a flight computer
[19:59] <chris_99> *nose cone
[19:59] <eroomde> ah rightyes don;t confuse those two :)
[19:59] <chris_99> yeah heh
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[19:59] <chris_99> so is that essentially a mini explosive?
[20:00] <chris_99> is that something you buy off the shelf or do you just make from black powder
[20:01] <eroomde> off the shelf
[20:01] <eroomde> they're like bolts
[20:01] <eroomde> with wires coming out one end
[20:02] <chris_99> aha gotcha, do you have a link to a site that sells them?
[20:02] <eroomde> and a pin that shoots out the other with a force of several kN
[20:02] <eroomde> well, they're a bit expensive
[20:02] <eroomde> £40 each
[20:02] <eroomde> we got them because we really like them
[20:02] <eroomde> but it's not how hobbyists usually do it conventionally
[20:02] Action: SpeedEvil wants some of them.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> they'd make diy a lot easier
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> if really cheap, small and wireless
[20:03] <eroomde> http://www.monetti.net/pdf/en/PRODUCTS_ACTUATORS_GAS_GENERATORS/01/DR%202006%20C2%20EN.pdf
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> heh self hammering nails
[20:04] <chris_99> cheers
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> on a related note.
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> all ladders are bastards.
[20:04] <chris_99> 40 quid sounds rather excessive
[20:04] <chris_99> though
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> fell off shed roof while painting.
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> pain.
[20:05] <eroomde> excessive depends on the context
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> thankfully none ,major
[20:05] <eroomde> wasn't for what we wanted to do
[20:05] <chris_99> i mean considering it's just a charge?
[20:05] <eroomde> on a rocket that used £2k of rocket motor every time
[20:05] <chris_99> oh haha
[20:06] <eroomde> well, it's not just a charge
[20:06] <eroomde> it' a protractor
[20:06] <eroomde> and sometimes that's a really good fit for the problem
[20:06] <eroomde> reliable, repeatable, self contained, clean
[20:07] <chris_99> hmm, is there a cheaper solution if i just want to blow the nose cone off
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> you're only supposed to blow the bloody nose cone off
[20:07] <chris_99> hehe
[20:08] <eroomde> chris_99: yep, just look up what hobbyists usually use
[20:09] <eroomde> usually like black powder wrapped in a little capsule
[20:09] <eroomde> that just explodes as a sort of dirty hot gas generator
[20:09] <chris_99> gotcha, that makes sense
[20:09] <eroomde> i think the sample capulse biologists use are popular
[20:10] <eroomde> the sort of 2.5cm long plastic test-tubes with caps
[20:10] <eroomde> forget the proper name for them
[20:10] <chris_99> oh yeah for pills you mean?
[20:10] <chris_99> or do you mean tubes
[20:11] <eroomde> tubes
[20:11] <chris_99> like this i guess http://www.anachem.co.uk/catalogue/product/itemNo/121000 ?
[20:11] <eroomde> the things those robotic pipette machines pour stuff too and from
[20:11] <eroomde> will try and find them on goog
[20:11] <eroomde> yes those things
[20:11] <eroomde> bingo
[20:12] <chris_99> if only we could just buy black powder
[20:12] <chris_99> like in the US
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[20:14] <gonzo_> there is a nito based propelent, as a black powder substitute
[20:14] <gonzo_> called Pyrodex
[20:15] <gonzo_> which you don't need an explosives licence for
[20:15] <chris_99> ooh thanks i'll see if i can find that
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[20:15] <gonzo_> try your local gun shop
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander_> last week a friend of mine said that her boyfriend says "Github is a Social Network"
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:16] <eroomde> chris_99: you can buy smokeless powder
[20:16] <eroomde> in the uk
[20:16] <eroomde> easily enough
[20:16] <eroomde> but yes it lacks the oomph of black but should be fine for smaller rockets
[20:16] <chris_99> what's smokeless powder?
[20:17] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder
[20:17] <eroomde> can buy it in hunting/country shops
[20:18] <chris_99> oh interesting, i'll have to see if i can find a gun shop then
[20:18] <eroomde> you need an rca
[20:18] <eroomde> which is a document that lets you transport it
[20:18] <chris_99> oh, hmm
[20:18] <eroomde> it's a form u fill in
[20:18] <eroomde> tis easy
[20:19] <eroomde> not like explosives license
[20:19] <chris_99> and you just fill it in at the shop?
[20:19] <eroomde> no
[20:19] <eroomde> with the HSE
[20:19] <eroomde> http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/transfer-of-explosives.htm
[20:20] <eroomde> it's easy though, i have one
[20:20] <chris_99> cool thanks
[20:24] <chris_99> oh how did you sense the altitude btw
[20:24] <chris_99> using pressure?
[20:24] <eroomde> yep
[20:24] <chris_99> as someone i spoke to mentioned a magnet sensing one but i haven't seen one of those
[20:25] <eroomde> that doesnt sense alt
[20:25] <eroomde> it senses when you pitch over
[20:26] <chris_99> you mean if it tilts essentially?
[20:26] <eroomde> i.e. at apogee (or if something goes wrong like a fin breaks off))
[20:26] <eroomde> yes
[20:26] <chris_99> ah ok, i must have misunderstood
[20:29] <eroomde> both are valid for sensing apogee
[20:30] <eroomde> i.e when to deploy the chute
[20:31] <chris_99> you could even use a mercury tilt switch i guess?
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> guro
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> gyro
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[20:32] <SpeedEvil> accelerometer, GPS, timer.
[20:32] <eroomde> chris_99: i would avoid mercury
[20:33] <eroomde> they are designed to work in 1g
[20:33] <eroomde> rockets aint
[20:33] <chris_99> aha yeah i didn't think about the forces involved doh heh
[20:33] <chris_99> just found this http://www.tvandfilmsupplies.co.uk/pyro/ignitors-squibs-fuse/mantitor-plastic-ignitor-cord-pic-100m-reel.html
[20:33] <eroomde> so during burn in might be accelerating upwards at 5G
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[20:33] <eroomde> then at burnout the drag from the air might be deceleragting it at 3G
[20:34] <eroomde> which would be throwing the mercuty all over the place
[20:34] <chris_99> yeah
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[20:52] <eroomde> miles jupp on The Thick of It
[20:52] <eroomde> amazing
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> sort-of-on-topic
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> watched Fred Dinah on the art of steeplejacking a few weeks ago
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> dibnah
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTc88oBazEg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[21:02] Action: Laurenceb_ has been scaling his test chamber results
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> end result - if i place a unity gain antenni 50cm away, the 434mhz noise floor will be -118dBm
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> low enough to not be the end of the world
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> for uplink
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> but the 6th harmonic of the cpu is very close
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> so itd depend on the front end you used...
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> why not change your cock
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> clock
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> or is it plld at a fixed ratio or something
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> lol typo
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> nope it can be changed
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> could go down to 60mhz from 72
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> em testing is not fun :(
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> im going to have to find a proper calibrated chamber and redo the tests
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> or an open died
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> field
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> heh
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[21:22] <Lunar_Lander_> hi eroomde Laurenceb_ SpeedEvil
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> hi
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander_> how's the weekend?
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander_> launches imminent?
[21:23] Action: SpeedEvil plans not to launch himself again.
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> flight from 3 m to 0 m was not fun
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander_> oh!
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> ladders are bastards.
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[22:39] <Laurenceb_> http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz187/youngexplorers69/peters/StPeters2008.jpg
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> fatal grammar error
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[23:23] <m0psi> hi all, trying to find out about 'joining' UK-HAS, whatever that means. Is there a joining procedure? I emailed James Coxon, but I just found out he is poorly, so unlikely to respond soon.
[23:23] <fsphil> it's a fuzzy wibbly wobbly organisation, so if you want to be a member then you are :)
[23:23] <fsphil> although that could change in future
[23:23] <m0psi> yay!
[23:23] <m0psi> how cool is that
[23:23] <m0psi> :-)
[23:24] <m0psi> next, using the logo. I am about to start a local school club, HAB project. Can I use the UK-HAS logo? or are there rules on that one?
[23:26] <fsphil> I'm sure it's fine as long as it's not made to look like it's an offical project from ukhas or something
[23:26] <m0psi> right, no 'officialness' intended
[23:26] <m0psi> will keep an eye on this in the future anway
[23:27] <fsphil> yea things are bound to change
[23:27] <m0psi> thanks fsphil
[23:28] <fsphil> what's your project?
[23:31] <m0psi> will be looking to get a basic hab done with the kids
[23:31] <m0psi> i intend to help them set up the club, will run it for a while, and then hope one of the techie teachers will take over
[23:31] <m0psi> fat chance at the moment
[23:31] <m0psi> but i'm happy to play of course
[23:31] <m0psi> any excuse to play :-)
[23:33] <m0psi> step one; get a high altitude photo and recover the payload - i was thinking maybe worth sending the photo down by radio, incase we lose the payload
[23:33] <m0psi> but i realise this has its problems
[23:33] <m0psi> so, may just go for ; go up, take photo, come down.
[23:34] <m0psi> then we can make it more complex as we learn about the problems etc.
[23:34] <m0psi> for the next launch i was thinking of sticking some sensors, to make it more interesting.
[23:35] <m0psi> i'm super new to this, so my learning curve is super steep!
[23:35] <fsphil> it can be a fun and challanging process
[23:36] <m0psi> indeed. i expect it to be so. hence why i'm picking super simple mission
[23:36] <m0psi> i expect there will be enough to complicate it
[23:36] <m0psi> how about you, what is your experience?
[23:37] <fsphil> four launches so far, 50% recovery although the two lost where risky flights
[23:37] <m0psi> 50% !!!!
[23:37] <m0psi> why risky?
[23:37] <m0psi> weather?
[23:37] <fsphil> yea they where launched in high winds and travelled about 500km :)
[23:37] <fsphil> yep
[23:38] <m0psi> ah
[23:38] <m0psi> i looked at the predicter today
[23:38] <fsphil> one landed in the yorkshire dales, the other in the north sea
[23:38] <m0psi> and i realised that a launch today from where i am would put it in holland!
[23:38] <m0psi> where did you launch from?
[23:38] <fsphil> the predictor is your best friend :)
[23:38] <fsphil> n.ireland
[23:39] <m0psi> blimy!
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander_> hi fsphil
[23:39] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6454843377/in/set-72157628264170117
[23:39] <m0psi> north sea
[23:39] <fsphil> I was aiming for england :)
[23:39] <m0psi> that means you crossed the UK
[23:39] <fsphil> morning Lunar_Lander_
[23:39] <m0psi> aiming?!
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you today?
[23:40] <fsphil> well the plan was to have it land near Upu
[23:40] <fsphil> but I underinflated the balloon slightly
[23:40] <m0psi> were you hoping that some england buddies would follow it and find it?
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah you see you have to plan the trajectory beforehand
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> maybe even integrate it
[23:40] <m0psi> integrate? do you mean 'calculus' or 'incorporate into the plan'?
[23:40] <fsphil> live images so no big loss on that last one
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander_> i.e. you use the predictor thing
[23:41] <m0psi> nice
[23:41] <DrLuke> hey m0psi
[23:41] <DrLuke> how's it going?
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander_> and then you say "oh this one approaches the sea, so that is not a good time to launch"
[23:41] <fsphil> but there's a camera in the yorkshire dales I'd love to get back :) never gonna happen though, I have looked and there's too much area
[23:41] <m0psi> hey DrLuke
[23:42] <m0psi> ok thanks, learning slowly. watched the rocket video today, from the conference
[23:42] <m0psi> pretty hairy stuff
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander_> ah the conference videos are there already?
[23:42] <fsphil> I envy the rocket peoples :)
[23:42] <DrLuke> hehe
[23:42] <DrLuke> I imagine launching a rocket must be the most satisfying thing ever
[23:42] <m0psi> pretty bad quality, but thanks to anthony for doing it anyway
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander_> ah the conference videos are there already?
[23:42] <m0psi> pretty cool images of the launch
[23:43] <m0psi> yes, there is link on the mailing list now
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
[23:43] <m0psi> i thought he was going to talk about a rockoon
[23:43] <m0psi> but he pretty much dismissed it for reasons of permission
[23:43] <fsphil> I think the general opinion now is that rockets from the ground are easier anyway
[23:44] <DrLuke> yeah
[23:44] <m0psi> i guess it is fairly unpredictable, by caa standards
[23:44] <m0psi> i dont know, i think the idea of a rockoon is pretty cool thing to attempt
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah but it is dangerous
[23:44] <DrLuke> I just don't think it's that practical, unless you use a lot of balloons to get a rather big rocket up there
[23:44] <m0psi> i will have a go one day, but i guess it may have to be from a boat out at sea
[23:44] <fsphil> nothing a two or three stage rocket couldn't do easily
[23:45] <fsphil> but yes it would still be interesting to try it
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander_> "The video quality is very choppy but the audio seems to be ok."
[23:45] <m0psi> y, pretty cool having a go
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander_> uhm
[23:45] <DrLuke> I just want to see an amateur rocket reach orbit already
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander_> the audio sounds really choppy at the start to be honest
[23:45] <m0psi> right, as long as you can hear it, it is ok
[23:46] <m0psi> for the rocket bit it is fine
[23:46] <m0psi> wow, just saw your photo/map fsphil
[23:46] <m0psi> very cool
[23:47] <fsphil> it was a great flight, despite the landing
[23:47] <m0psi> maybe we'll send you one some day :-)
[23:47] <fsphil> jcoxon did once, but the payload self destructed just as it reached land :)
[23:47] <m0psi> shame
[23:47] <fsphil> it's very odd for the winds to bring them up here
[23:47] <m0psi> self destruct == ?
[23:48] <m0psi> y, i was thiking that
[23:48] <m0psi> mostly the other way
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander_> ah finally at around 7:30 the background talking stopped finally
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander_> did the people really talked for seven minutes while the person there gave the introductions?
[23:48] <fsphil> there was a programming error that caused the radio to stop transmitting
[23:48] <m0psi> ah
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander_> oh that's James
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander_> so people talked over James' intro?
[23:49] <m0psi> how did he know it was a bug?
[23:49] <m0psi> did he run it on the ground too?
[23:49] <fsphil> well not a bug, the software increased the power output of the radio
[23:49] <m0psi> and?
[23:49] <fsphil> which likely caused a voltage drop, resetting the radio
[23:49] <m0psi> ah
[23:50] <fsphil> the software wasn't programmed to reinitialise it
[23:50] <m0psi> interesting how he found that out later. did he run it on a duplicate setup?
[23:50] <fsphil> weird flight that, the antenna seemed to be quite directional
[23:50] <m0psi> sounds like forensic stuff
[23:51] <fsphil> it wasn't repeated, but it was the most likely explination
[23:51] <m0psi> it was just an omni stick right?
[23:51] <m0psi> ah
[23:51] <m0psi> ok
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander_> Darkside, are you there?
[23:51] <fsphil> omni yea, although it might have been damaged after launch
[23:51] <fsphil> the signal was very weak in the direction of flight
[23:51] <m0psi> ah, interesting
[23:51] <fsphil> but stations "behind" it could hear it fine
[23:52] <m0psi> interesting
[23:52] <fsphil> it was coming straight for me and I couldn't hear it even when it was 40km away
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil, so the signal was jumping close stations?
[23:52] <fsphil> yep, until it passed them Lunar_Lander_
[23:52] <m0psi> but you could see it on the tracker map?
[23:52] <fsphil> yes there where plenty of stations able to decode
[23:53] <fsphil> most of the stations are in the south of the uk so it worked well
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander_> that reminds me of the german ham test where they have like a transmitter on a mountain and a close receiver at the foot of the mountain and a receiver farther away
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander_> and there too the guy at the foot of the mountain hears nothing
[23:53] <m0psi> is there a restriction on transport across countries (i realise not NI)
[23:53] <m0psi> in terms of customs etc
[23:54] <fsphil> I'm not 100% certain, I used to believe not but I recall a discussion on it where someone said it might be
[23:54] <m0psi> y, i expect all sorts of radio shadow issues
[23:54] <fsphil> the CAA do ask that I check with the IAA before launch, if the flight was going to cross the border
[23:55] <m0psi> hmm, i guess if you plan it to do so, than you should declare it to some one
[23:55] <m0psi> but if unplanned, then no biggie
[23:55] <fsphil> I don't think it's a problem inside europe
[23:55] <m0psi> y, that is probably true
[23:56] <fsphil> but it's unlikely you'll be flying outside europe from here
[23:56] <m0psi> regarding takeoff site, as long as the wind is going to take it away from airways, do the caa normally give permission easily, or is this a problem ?
[23:56] <fsphil> although not impossible :)
[23:56] <m0psi> i want to launch from surrey, south west of london
[23:57] <fsphil> you'll need to ask the caa
[23:57] <fsphil> they can be fussy
[23:57] <m0psi> so, was thinking of planning to launch from the school , and head inland uk
[23:57] <fsphil> or, in my case, they will ignore you :)
[23:57] <m0psi> ignore you?
[23:57] <fsphil> london, and the major airports, will be your biggest problem
[23:57] <m0psi> surely they have to say something
[23:57] <fsphil> you really don't want to land anywhere near those
[23:57] <m0psi> no, that is for sure
[23:58] <m0psi> so, if i had south easterly wind, i would be very ok
[23:58] <m0psi> which are not uncommon, but not the most common
[23:59] <fsphil> the winds here tend to carry them to scotland
[23:59] <m0psi> how long do permissions take to come back? days/weeks/months?
[23:59] <fsphil> yes :)
[23:59] <m0psi> oh
[23:59] <fsphil> it depends
[23:59] <m0psi> wrong answer
[23:59] <fsphil> on what, I'm not sure
[00:00] <m0psi> :-)
[00:00] --- Sun Sep 30 2012