highaltitude.log.20120927

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[00:04] <m0psi> ehem
[00:05] <DrLuke> hi
[00:05] <DrLuke> may I take your coat?
[00:05] <m0psi> hi Dr
[00:05] <m0psi> :-)
[00:05] <m0psi> thank you for asking
[00:05] <m0psi> my first ever irc
[00:05] <m0psi> pretty cool
[00:05] <m0psi> and a bit late
[00:06] <DrLuke> cool
[00:06] <m0psi> considering i used the internet since 1987!
[00:06] <m0psi> anyway
[00:06] <DrLuke> nice
[00:06] <m0psi> i'm here regarding rarified flight :-)
[00:06] <DrLuke> is m0psi your callsihn?
[00:06] <DrLuke> sign*
[00:06] <m0psi> y
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[00:06] <DrLuke> haha, nice
[00:06] <m0psi> DrAli will also work :-)
[00:07] <m0psi> I'm in Farnham, surrey
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> various here from casual observers, to people that've flown dozens
[00:07] <m0psi> and have just got my kid's school interested in hab
[00:07] <DrLuke> awesome
[00:07] <DrLuke> I would have loved to do a HAB in school
[00:07] <m0psi> i've got a fair bit of experience with electronics etc, but never put a hab together
[00:07] <DrLuke> instead all we did was some crap with arduinos :(
[00:08] <m0psi> exactly, i would have loved to have had a guy like me turn up at my school and offer a hab project
[00:08] <m0psi> alas, i'll help them best i can
[00:08] <m0psi> so...
[00:08] <DrLuke> I think I will do the same in a year or two
[00:08] <DrLuke> depending on how my first launches will turn out
[00:09] <m0psi> where are you based?
[00:09] <DrLuke> Germany
[00:09] <m0psi> ah
[00:09] <m0psi> ok, so re camera
[00:09] <DrLuke> in Baden-Baden near Karlsruhe if that tells you anything
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[00:09] <m0psi> i see that canon is favourite due to chkdk , right?
[00:09] <DrLuke> indeed it is
[00:10] <m0psi> ok, so is there a prefered model
[00:10] <DrLuke> although if you aren't afraid of hacking a camera open you can trigger any camera with a transistor
[00:10] <m0psi> obviously the lower cost is a good thing
[00:10] <DrLuke> well, that's the point
[00:10] <m0psi> ok
[00:10] <DrLuke> the canons are really popular
[00:10] <DrLuke> so they go for a lot of cash on ebay
[00:10] <DrLuke> well
[00:10] <DrLuke> not a LOT, but you know
[00:10] <m0psi> indeed, and intervelometer software is on the os anyway
[00:10] <DrLuke> more than other cams
[00:11] <DrLuke> well
[00:11] <DrLuke> a button does nothing but short out 2 connections
[00:11] <m0psi> y
[00:11] <DrLuke> you can make your own camera controller with a microcontroller
[00:11] <m0psi> i guess i can get the arduino to do that
[00:11] <DrLuke> yep
[00:11] <DrLuke> the easiest way is to just solder a transistor across both pins
[00:12] <m0psi> ok, so really, just get a cheap camera and hack the button, somehow
[00:12] <DrLuke> if you want to, yes
[00:12] <m0psi> or even a relay?
[00:12] <DrLuke> a relay really is overkill
[00:12] <DrLuke> a transitor is easy enough
[00:12] <m0psi> ok
[00:13] <m0psi> bc108 ?
[00:13] <DrLuke> really any PNP or NPN will do
[00:13] <m0psi> low current i guess
[00:13] <DrLuke> although hold on
[00:13] <DrLuke> no nevermind
[00:13] <m0psi> ok, i will experiment
[00:13] <DrLuke> just find out which side is ground
[00:13] <m0psi> next, tracker
[00:13] <DrLuke> NTX2
[00:13] <m0psi> (y, i will have a play)
[00:14] <DrLuke> well, actually it depends
[00:14] <m0psi> ok, so the idea with that is the 70cm signal
[00:14] <m0psi> rtty on ssb
[00:14] <m0psi> and use fligi
[00:14] <DrLuke> if you only want to send data down from the balloon, the NTX2 is popular
[00:14] <m0psi> right?
[00:14] <DrLuke> yes
[00:14] <m0psi> but there is also the option of the aprs
[00:14] <m0psi> is there a module to plug in
[00:14] <m0psi> what is that about?
[00:15] <DrLuke> I don't know anything about APRS
[00:15] <DrLuke> sorry
[00:15] <m0psi> ok
[00:15] <m0psi> so ntx2
[00:15] <m0psi> need a gps signal
[00:15] <DrLuke> it's only one way though
[00:15] <DrLuke> get an ublox GPS
[00:15] <m0psi> what is the story there?
[00:15] <m0psi> ublox is the brand?
[00:16] <DrLuke> you have to make sure the gps can go above 14km
[00:16] <DrLuke> yes
[00:16] <DrLuke> hold on a second
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[00:17] <DrLuke> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[00:17] <DrLuke> there
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> smashed screen on cam makes it lots cheaper
[00:17] <DrLuke> this shop belongs to upu
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> and still OK for hab
[00:17] <DrLuke> there you can buy the ntx2: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=62
[00:17] <DrLuke> and the gps: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
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[00:18] <DrLuke> I also highly recommend you run a 3.3V system
[00:18] <DrLuke> as the ublox isn't 5V compatible
[00:18] <DrLuke> if you really want to use a 5V system though: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[00:18] <m0psi> ok, holding :-)
[00:18] <DrLuke> but it'll use more power
[00:19] <m0psi> ah, sorry did not see the scroll bar
[00:19] <DrLuke> hehe
[00:19] <m0psi> why 3.3?
[00:19] <m0psi> less power?
[00:20] <DrLuke> yes
[00:20] <m0psi> oh, pretty cool gadget
[00:20] <DrLuke> the arduino is running on 5V
[00:20] <DrLuke> but you should consider investing into a arduino pro/mini/whatever running at 3.3V (if you use an arduino)
[00:21] <DrLuke> they're physically smaller and don't have the usb-hardware
[00:21] <DrLuke> so they also consume less power
[00:21] <m0psi> ok thanks for that
[00:21] <m0psi> i'll get one
[00:21] <DrLuke> power is like the thing to watch out for
[00:21] <m0psi> better to go low V anyway
[00:21] <m0psi> indeed
[00:21] <DrLuke> power and insulation
[00:22] <m0psi> is that because batteries don't last long?
[00:22] <m0psi> in the cold?
[00:22] <DrLuke> no, it's rather because the crystals on the radio transmitter are temperature sensitve
[00:22] <DrLuke> On a flight not so long ago, air rushed in through the hole for the antenna as the balloon was descending
[00:22] <m0psi> ok, so best to insulate them
[00:23] <DrLuke> the frequency was drifting so quickly, nobody could track the payload anymore
[00:23] <m0psi> oh
[00:23] <DrLuke> basically make it airtight
[00:23] <m0psi> how about using the battery to warm the radio kit?
[00:23] <m0psi> make the ntx2 airtight?
[00:23] <DrLuke> well, I can't speak from experience yet, but from what I'm told good insulation is enough
[00:23] <m0psi> or gps?
[00:24] <DrLuke> you can use an oven oscillator with the NTX2, it will heat up the crystal to remain at a constant temperature
[00:24] <DrLuke> but eh
[00:24] <DrLuke> just insulate the hole thing with light foam and bob's your uncle
[00:25] <DrLuke> weight also is critical
[00:25] <m0psi> sure
[00:25] <m0psi> i guess bigger balloons are more expensive, including He2
[00:25] <DrLuke> indeed
[00:25] <DrLuke> helium is really expensive
[00:26] <DrLuke> you want to use as little as possible, or hydrogen
[00:26] <DrLuke> but with hydrogen you have the obvious fire hazards
[00:26] <DrLuke> speaking of hazards: what country are you from?
[00:26] <DrLuke> UK?
[00:26] <m0psi> UK
[00:26] <DrLuke> ok
[00:27] <DrLuke> you'll have to watch out for some legal things
[00:27] <m0psi> it seems so
[00:27] <DrLuke> for example you need a flight permission from the what'sitcalled
[00:27] <m0psi> CAA
[00:27] <DrLuke> let me find out really quick
[00:27] <DrLuke> ah there we go
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> you can't launch thermonuclear weapons on balloons.
[00:27] <m0psi> aparantly!
[00:27] <DrLuke> yep :)
[00:27] <m0psi> boring!
[00:27] <DrLuke> so I guess you already informed yourself on legal matters?
[00:28] <m0psi> well, the ukhas.org.uk site has a few things to read
[00:28] <DrLuke> yep, that's a good place to start
[00:28] <DrLuke> also imporant is that the strings you use to attach the payload to the balloon have to tear with a parallel force of 230N
[00:29] <m0psi> why?
[00:29] <DrLuke> first, because the ICAO demands it
[00:29] <DrLuke> and second because a plane ramming your balloon is dangerous
[00:29] <m0psi> ICAO?
[00:29] <DrLuke> and you don't want a balloon stuck on your wing
[00:29] <DrLuke> google it
[00:30] <DrLuke> or rather wikipedia it
[00:30] <m0psi> ok, so a 'planned weakness'
[00:30] <DrLuke> exactly
[00:30] <m0psi> ok, makes sense
[00:30] <m0psi> so buy it from the hab supplies shop
[00:30] <DrLuke> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Stuff.html
[00:30] <m0psi> or put 23kg on it
[00:31] <DrLuke> 220N actually, sorry
[00:31] <DrLuke> it really doesn't matter THAT much to be precise
[00:31] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how tough a 1m balloon would need to be to withstand hitting a 30cm radius wing at 600mph
[00:31] <DrLuke> just don't use heavy duty braided steel strings
[00:31] <m0psi> :-)
[00:32] <DrLuke> SpeecEvil: I've once rammed a flock of party balloons while flying in a glider :)
[00:32] <DrLuke> it was fun as hell at first
[00:32] <m0psi> i'm so excited!!
[00:32] <DrLuke> but one clogged up the pressure probe for the speedometer, lmao
[00:32] <DrLuke> actually not THAT lmao
[00:32] <m0psi> you did that?!
[00:32] <DrLuke> yeah
[00:32] <m0psi> wow
[00:32] <DrLuke> can't recommend doing it
[00:32] <m0psi> i also flew gliders for a while
[00:33] <DrLuke> nice
[00:33] <m0psi> got a silver C
[00:33] <m0psi> a while ago now
[00:33] <DrLuke> was that for a 5 hour flight or something?
[00:33] <m0psi> y
[00:33] <DrLuke> nice
[00:33] <DrLuke> I also almost got that, only 12 minutes short :(
[00:33] <m0psi> 5000 feet, +5hrs + 50km
[00:33] <DrLuke> I did an outlanding for my 50km flight :)
[00:34] <m0psi> me too
[00:34] <DrLuke> and strictly speaking it was only 35km, but it still got approved
[00:34] <m0psi> was the only one i ever did
[00:34] <DrLuke> aww :(
[00:34] <m0psi> but it was my cert
[00:34] <DrLuke> why did you stop?
[00:34] <m0psi> weather died
[00:34] <DrLuke> I mean stop flying
[00:34] <m0psi> lost all thermals
[00:34] <DrLuke> in general
[00:34] <m0psi> oh
[00:34] <m0psi> i went to USA
[00:34] <m0psi> very expensive to glide
[00:34] <DrLuke> ah
[00:35] <m0psi> so i too a ppl
[00:35] <DrLuke> yeah the USA is a bit up the butt for gliding
[00:35] <m0psi> then came back to the uk
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[00:35] <m0psi> and did sailing instead
[00:35] <m0psi> however, i still look up in the sky
[00:35] <DrLuke> yuck, water :P
[00:35] <DrLuke> so 2 dimensional
[00:36] <m0psi> same as flying, only the wing is perpendicular to the ground
[00:36] <DrLuke> well should you ever be near karlsruhe, let me know, I'll take you for a spin
[00:36] <m0psi> all the time
[00:36] <m0psi> hmm
[00:36] <DrLuke> also my outlanding was most frustrating
[00:36] <DrLuke> I basically was in the long extension of the runway
[00:36] <DrLuke> and I saw the airfiel
[00:36] Action: SpeedEvil wonders where he knows the name Karlsruhe from.
[00:36] <m0psi> well, it is very possible for me to come to germany soon (70% chance)
[00:36] <DrLuke> but then there were those trees creeping up from below
[00:37] <DrLuke> and suddenly I didn't see the airfield anymore
[00:37] <DrLuke> but I saw a model airfield below me I never saw before (probably because I never was that low!)
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> oh, openstreetmap
[00:37] <DrLuke> sadly it was too short and had this huge metal fence at the end of the runway
[00:37] <DrLuke> so I decided to touch down on the corn acre next to it
[00:37] <m0psi> ouch
[00:37] <DrLuke> both split second decisions
[00:38] <DrLuke> as I was like 100m above the ground at the time
[00:38] <DrLuke> and then I almost landed without my landing gear out!
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[00:38] <m0psi> ah
[00:38] <DrLuke> and almost hit a fence seperating 2 acres...
[00:38] <DrLuke> it's a wonder I'm still alive
[00:38] <DrLuke> Anyways, that's why I don't fly Astir anymore
[00:38] <DrLuke> :)
[00:38] <m0psi> i nearly wiped out going into a wire fence on my landing
[00:39] <DrLuke> oh
[00:39] <DrLuke> fences are nasty
[00:39] <m0psi> ah, Astir, I did an aborted landed with that one
[00:39] <m0psi> aborted landing
[00:39] <DrLuke> how do you mean?
[00:39] <DrLuke> on a winch launch?
[00:39] <m0psi> came in too fast
[00:39] <m0psi> gear down
[00:39] <m0psi> i thought i was too fast to stop before the end of the runway
[00:40] <m0psi> put the gear and breaks away
[00:40] <m0psi> whooosh
[00:40] <m0psi> over the clif
[00:40] <m0psi> :-)
[00:40] <DrLuke> haha
[00:40] <m0psi> came around, easy second time
[00:40] <DrLuke> you got some updraft on the cliff?
[00:40] <m0psi> Longmynd, wales
[00:40] <m0psi> y
[00:41] <m0psi> anwayway, ali@azzawi.net, please email me your contact details, incase i turn up in germany
[00:41] <DrLuke> sure thing
[00:42] <m0psi> thanks for your help and chat
[00:42] <m0psi> bed time for me
[00:42] <DrLuke> sure thing
[00:42] <DrLuke> you're welcome
[00:42] <m0psi> nn
[00:42] <DrLuke> night!
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[01:59] <jarod> just a very off topic question, but maybe anyone here knows... what is the radio station on 486 kHz ?
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[02:33] <SpeedEvil> gonna kinda depend on where you are
[02:33] <SpeedEvil> LW stations have good range, but,,,
[02:35] <jarod> yeah its a werid freq
[02:35] <jarod> sounded portugese
[02:37] <jarod> still hearing it, will wait for 0455 then tune into a remote perseus and make a screenshot + audio recording
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[03:02] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/0-40/486khz-2012-09-27-0255utc-remote-perseus-uk-newport.jpg
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[03:08] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/0-40/486khz-2012-09-27-0255-0305utc-remote-perseus-uk-newport.mp3 can anyone hear the language and maybe the location of the transmission?
[03:19] <SpeedEvil> record at the top of the hour
[03:19] <SpeedEvil> to get news/ident
[03:20] <SpeedEvil> Spanish?
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> are you sure you're not picking up the wrong if
[03:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mwlist.org/mwlist_quick_and_easy.php?area=1&kHz=487
[03:27] <SpeedEvil> tuns radio?
[03:27] <SpeedEvil> Tunis
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[07:34] <Futurity> Morning all. UPU around?
[07:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Bessant "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Moving On"
[07:40] <eroomde> good
[07:44] <UpuWork> Upu around
[07:44] <UpuWork> morning Futurity
[07:46] <Futurity> Morning
[07:47] <Futurity> ready to order, but a bit confused by all the filter power options lol
[07:50] <Futurity> Will talk in private message to avoid filling up this room
[07:50] <natrium42> lol eroomde :)
[07:51] <eroomde> ?
[07:52] <costyn> natrium42 is probably reading the backlog
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[07:58] <natrium42> eroomde: < griffonbot> Received email: Mike Bessant "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Moving On" < eroomde> good
[08:00] <eroomde> i should be less of a bitch
[08:02] <UpuWork> no I like it
[08:05] Action: costyn too
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[08:08] <natrium42> eroomde: somebody needs to be :)
[08:08] <natrium42> there's too much BS, like the new HAB record category XD
[08:09] <UpuWork> we win that one too natrium42
[08:09] <UpuWork> the americans need a new criteria to give them a chance, i.e to qualify launches should be done under a blue sky
[08:11] <daveake> Arbitary Rules HAB
[08:12] <daveake> +r
[08:16] <fsphil> australia would win that UpuWork
[08:17] <daveake> Can we have "longest distance above ground when it lands"?
[08:18] <daveake> or "farthest distance out to sea"
[08:18] <UpuWork> Apex Alpha...
[08:18] <UpuWork> most payloads recovered by a dog
[08:18] <UpuWork> most sea shells returned by a payload
[08:18] <natrium42> pinkest payload
[08:19] <UpuWork> hey I'm loosing that, I sprayed a poly ball "shock pink" and it looks like it was shock pink but then was put in a fire
[08:19] <daveake> highest altitude shot of another balloon
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[08:19] <UpuWork> best load launched by someone called Dave ?
[08:20] <daveake> yup
[08:20] <natrium42> what about records that have a good chance of having the hobby banned
[08:20] <natrium42> like most launches in a day by a single group
[08:21] <UpuWork> oh we'd probably have that one too
[08:21] <UpuWork> bombing London etc
[08:23] <natrium42> most wreckless launch
[08:24] <costyn> natrium42: that's held by Netherlands by Tim
[08:28] <fsphil> Highest percentage of lost payloads
[08:28] <fsphil> I'm at 50% so far :)
[08:29] <costyn> crappiest launch technique = me
[08:32] <daveake> Luckiest recovery ever? I can think of a few contenders
[08:35] <fsphil> best launch snacks
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[08:36] <natrium42> costyn: what did tim do?
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[08:42] <gonzo_> I think the tradition for bacon butties can't be beat
[08:43] <costyn> natrium42: I don't think he's ever measured neck-lift and on his first flights didn't use a predictor or anything
[08:43] <costyn> :)
[08:43] <fsphil> yea, more a case of what he didn't do :)
[08:43] <costyn> yea
[08:44] <fsphil> and yet still got them all back
[08:44] <staylo> so completely reckless and completely wreckless :)
[08:44] <daveake> hah
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[08:45] <costyn> he has recovered all his payloads though
[08:47] <natrium42> :D
[08:47] <natrium42> i am trying to hire him :)
[08:48] <costyn> natrium42: what for?
[08:48] <natrium42> for the company i co-founded
[08:48] <costyn> coool... he's a really smart dude
[08:48] <natrium42> he is doing image processing too
[08:48] <costyn> yea
[08:49] <fsphil> he's got some interesting 3d stuff
[08:52] <natrium42> if you guys know any great developers looking for a job...
[08:52] <costyn> natrium42: doesn't matter what country they are in?
[08:53] <natrium42> as long as they can come to california
[08:53] <cuddykid> now that would be an awesome job
[08:55] <costyn> cuddykid: any job in California is cool? :)
[08:55] <cuddykid> yeah!
[08:56] <fsphil> need someone to make the tea? :)
[08:58] <natrium42> lol
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[09:00] <natrium42> it's computer vision/video processing/iOS/android/rails/AWS cluster stuff
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[10:06] <UpuWork> ping costyn
[10:11] <costyn> UpuWork: hi
[10:11] <UpuWork> GPS recieved - will test tonight
[10:11] <costyn> UpuWork: ok, no rush. Thanks!
[10:11] <costyn> UpuWork: going to launch the old tracker again for the next launch anyways
[10:13] <tioukcom> Anyone know why the Google Group is censored?
[10:13] <UpuWork> they tioukcom
[10:13] <UpuWork> I'll respond to your mail shortly its not censored its moderated
[10:13] <UpuWork> they=hey
[10:16] <tioukcom> One persons moderation is another's censorship.
[10:17] <tioukcom> Moderation put a whole lot of responsibility on the moderator as they are approving others words
[10:18] <fsphil> 99% of what they do is delete spam
[10:19] <tioukcom> they have to stand by them legally. Delete spam afterwards.
[10:19] <fsphil> I'm not sure what that means
[10:20] <tioukcom> If you moderate, you become legally responsible for the moderated content.
[10:22] <fsphil> I doubt that's true
[10:22] <fsphil> but I'm no student of law
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[10:25] <russss> how can you delete spam from everyones' inboxes?
[10:25] <tioukcom> search on content, responsibility and ISP. You put yourself in a legally grey area and will have to argue your case.
[10:26] <russss> it's only your first post to the list which is moderated
[10:26] <UpuWork> you have mail Mike
[10:29] <MrScienceMan> rise against the opression of free HAB speech!
[10:29] <tioukcom> spam is a separate area, lots of ways to remove it, even I suppose by moderation. But not everything is spam, so shoudn't be moderated.
[10:29] <russss> it's a mailing list. The purpose of moderation is to stop spammers from sending to the list.
[10:30] <russss> deleting messages afterwards only removes it from the web interface, not from everyones' inboxes
[10:30] <tioukcom> UpuWork: won't have mail yet, greylisting is a good way to stop spam!
[10:31] <russss> greylisting won't work if the spam is being forwarded by a mailing list MTA.
[10:34] <tioukcom> I don't subscribe to the group as an email recipient, the greylist comment was about email from Anthony
[10:36] <tioukcom> And it's not really a mailing list, it's a hybrid 'how can we sell advertising against Usenet' sort of thing. If you want a proper mailing list, just ask.
[10:36] <x-f> :/
[10:37] <costyn> tioukcom: I don't think anybody else has a problem with the way it's set up now
[10:37] <jonsowman> this will all become much more transparent in the next few days
[10:37] <jonsowman> we understand that the moderation policy is currently not clear, and we're working on this
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[10:38] <tioukcom> That's good.
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[10:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "[UKHAS] Mailing List Plans"
[10:43] <jonsowman> there we go ^
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[10:54] <eroomde> +1 from me on the new cencorship policy
[10:55] <costyn> yea me too. Always annoyed me when people diverge into (sometimes unrelated) technical discussions tacked to the end of launch announcements
[10:55] <jonsowman> eroomde: thanks
[10:56] <daveake> Happened to one of my launch announcements. Load of off-topic discussion which should have had its own thread
[10:57] <jonsowman> costyn: totally, that's what we're trying to avoid with the new system
[10:57] <cuddykid> personally I find it highly annoying when people post launch announcements as a reply within a thread - new system will hopefully be better :)
[10:57] Action: costyn applauds
[10:57] <jonsowman> cuddykid: good point, are you suggesting that launch annoucements must always be new threads?
[10:57] <eroomde> i think that's a good idea
[10:57] <costyn> cuddykid: I hadn't seen that yet :) yes, very annoying :)
[10:57] <eroomde> it's basically an announcement
[10:58] <costyn> jonsowman: unless it's a rescheduling, then it can stick to the original thread
[10:58] <cuddykid> jonsowman: I think so - it might also be a good idea to have a set format e.g. -> "DD/MM, Launch Location, HHish etc
[10:58] <costyn> (imho)
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[10:58] <cuddykid> just so it's easy to look through quickly and find relevant info
[10:59] <costyn> cuddykid: you're asking a lot from people :) maybe the launch announcement can be (semi) automated after acceptance of the payload doc
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[10:59] <jonsowman> how about multiple launches on the same date?
[10:59] <jonsowman> say if a person/group is planning to launch two balloons?
[10:59] <costyn> maybe have habitat send the payload owner a concept email which he can then send to the list
[11:00] <cuddykid> costyn: doesn't have to be automated (but that would be good!) - just that new thread titles conform to a standard layout so easy to find info - I know a lot of other forums do similar things and it works well
[11:00] <eroomde> let people send an email per launch they're involved in
[11:00] <tioukcom> I can see the reason for a clean announcement list, but why not leave it at that with all discussions pertaining to a flight in the new UKHAS list?
[11:00] <eroomde> let's hot get faffy with per-payload announcements
[11:00] <eroomde> just
[11:00] <eroomde> 'i'm launching 2 payloads on the same balloon on sat, 1 is called this and the other is called this blah....
[11:00] <cuddykid> yep
[11:00] <costyn> yea
[11:01] <jonsowman> rescheduling is permitted in the same thread, new launches must be new threads
[11:01] <jonsowman> yes?
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[11:01] <cuddykid> yep
[11:01] <costyn> yeah
[11:01] <jonsowman> sounds sensible to me
[11:01] <jonsowman> noted, thanks guys
[11:01] <eroomde> in other mailing lsists i use, they often go for "$NEW_SUBJECT (was $OLD_SUBJECT)"
[11:02] <eroomde> to show some continuity
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[11:02] <jonsowman> eroomde: yep
[11:02] <eroomde> so "launch on 22nd (was xaben launch on 16th)"
[11:02] <eroomde> or something
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[11:02] <jonsowman> do you think that's worth including in the policy?
[11:02] <eroomde> that also works when threads naturally diverge, which they do
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[11:03] <eroomde> so "slimjim antenna construction (was 'alternative antenna ideas?')'
[11:03] <jonsowman> yep, will include something to that effect
[11:04] <eroomde> that's something moderators should be able to do post facto
[11:04] <jonsowman> that is sort of said under point (1) as it stands
[11:04] <eroomde> yeah
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[11:04] <eroomde> but it might be that moderators want to tweak it and let it through
[11:04] <eroomde> rather than the person replying to the thread starting something new
[11:04] <jonsowman> I'm not sure if Groups permits that
[11:04] <eroomde> ok
[11:04] <rwat> m0psi - how are your balloon plans coming on?
[11:04] <Darkside_KL> morning all
[11:04] <jonsowman> eroomde: will investigate
[11:05] <tioukcom> Are groups separate? can you move a post from launches to UKHAS?
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[11:06] <jonsowman> tioukcom: I don't think you can do that straight off the bat via Groups
[11:06] <jonsowman> however we can just ask that the message be submitted to the other list instead
[11:08] <tioukcom> Thought so, you need a forum with a post to email routine, then you can move posts about and even have an un-moderated area where you can put contentious posts, thereby having no uncertainty over censorship
[11:08] <fsphil> overkill?
[11:08] <fsphil> it's just a mailing list
[11:08] <jonsowman> I think we have to be mindful of making this too complex for the moderators
[11:09] <costyn> yes, and the users
[11:09] <jonsowman> yes, that too
[11:09] <tioukcom> johnsowman: Ahh, the age old moderation problem ;)
[11:10] <jonsowman> I agree that there are a few more features that would be nice in Google Groups, but I think the added complexity of moving to mailman or using a forum instead far outweigh the benefits
[11:10] <jonsowman> for the most part Google Groups works very well for UKHAS lists
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[11:10] <Darkside_KL> mailman is worth it
[11:11] <Darkside_KL> its very useful
[11:11] <eroomde> at the moment it's IRC that is the free-for-all and where most ukhas discussion happens. the new mailing list is meant to be a bit more of a lower volume, higher SNR thing
[11:11] <DanielRichman> running email servers is not fun at all
[11:11] Action: rwat finds it fun
[11:11] <DanielRichman> perhaps not so bad if it's only mailman
[11:11] <DanielRichman> rwat: I suggest you seek help
[11:11] <jonsowman> lol
[11:11] <MrScienceMan> yeah
[11:11] <daveake> :)
[11:11] <tioukcom> No problem here, loads of em.
[11:11] <MrScienceMan> all the help you can get
[11:12] <rwat> DanielRichman - there's no cure
[11:12] <DanielRichman> rwat: I'm sorry to hear that :-(
[11:12] <rwat> it's a long term habit
[11:12] <jonsowman> ok - well I've noted the mailman proposal
[11:12] <MrScienceMan> now i know where the emails i delete go :)
[11:12] <jonsowman> everything that's being suggested will be considered
[11:14] <MrScienceMan> lets convert the mailing list to paper
[11:14] <costyn> MrScienceMan: I don't think jonsowman will consider that
[11:14] <jonsowman> it makes moderation more fun to physically shred something
[11:14] <jonsowman> it'd cost me a fortune in stamps though
[11:15] <jonsowman> (yes I should probably have added 'within reason' to my earlier statement)
[11:15] <MrScienceMan> you can damn the mail in so many fun ways
[11:16] <MrScienceMan> you can mail back the shreded remains
[11:16] <jonsowman> :D
[11:16] <tioukcom> Where do you send notes on the moderation policy for discussion?
[11:16] <eroomde> read the first line of the moderation policy
[11:16] <costyn> to the ukhas-moderation list :P
[11:17] <eroomde> i think also perhaps the new mailing list address should be
[11:18] <eroomde> rtfw-ukhas@googlegroups.com
[11:18] <jonsowman> lol
[11:18] <eroomde> just to remind people
[11:18] <costyn> :D
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[11:20] <MrScienceMan> eroomde: as in past tense? :)
[11:21] <Randomskk> oho
[11:21] <Randomskk> mailman is an awful idea
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[11:21] <Randomskk> moderation isn't the same as censorship at all
[11:21] <eroomde> i miss administrating mailman
[11:21] <jonsowman> i thought you'd be keen Randomskk
[11:21] <jonsowman> :P
[11:21] <eroomde> 4 happy years of cusf :)
[11:21] <Randomskk> moderators don't have to legally stand by anything in the accepted posts except perhaps copyright claims under the american DMCA but we're not american
[11:22] <Randomskk> a forum is a terrible idea
[11:22] <Randomskk> and we are intentionally getting rid of contentious or disallowed posts, not putting them somewhere people could see them if they really want
[11:22] <Randomskk> if you saw some of the crap that hit the mailing list you might agree
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[11:22] <costyn> haha
[11:22] <Randomskk> okay I think I'm done
[11:22] <eroomde> you've caught up
[11:23] <Randomskk> I was sleeping
[11:23] <Randomskk> missed out
[11:23] <Randomskk> should wake up earlier really
[11:24] <Randomskk> the key concept here is that freedom of speech cuts both ways: you can say whatever you like, and we can publish whatever we like, and that means we don't publish any old crap that people say
[11:24] <Randomskk> you can have your free speech on your own mailing list
[11:24] <costyn> I like the way you think
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[11:24] <Randomskk> the ukhas list is for hab/high altitude related discussion
[11:24] <Randomskk> not general banter
[11:25] <costyn> "own mailing list" reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5tZMDBXTRQ
[11:25] <costyn> (short clips from Futurama)
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[11:27] <Randomskk> (fwiw I've run mail servers, mailman lists, currently admin a few anyway and it's not something I will set up for ukhas :P)
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[11:28] <russss> google groups still has a better web interface than Mailman, even if they are doing their best to fuck it up
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[11:29] <jonsowman> russss: lol
[11:29] <russss> I would very much appreciate an open-source mail archive browser which doesn't look like crap
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[11:37] <tioukcom> Randomskk: you said moderation isn't the same as censorship (true) then you say you intentionally get rid of contentious posts, which is. You seem to be making yourselves a lot of work.
[11:37] <kokey> yeah I like the google groups interface
[11:40] <tioukcom> I raised the issue because I posted on the insurance topic and it was moderated/deleted as being off topic.
[11:40] <jonsowman> tioukcom: it was more that it didn't add anything useful to the discussion, as one of the moderators has told you
[11:41] <jonsowman> tioukcom: have you read through the new moderation policy? and are you happy with it?
[11:43] <tioukcom> jonsnowman: generally yes, but there are some oddities and most seems to be about trying to educate users by moderating their posts until they learn.
[11:43] <jonsowman> please do send me an email explaining the oddities :)
[11:44] <costyn> I have to agree it's a big change for people who might not be familiar with netiquette
[11:44] <costyn> but it will make the quality of the list better in the long run
[11:44] <jonsowman> costyn: yes, I think that's why this has been put off until now
[11:44] <jonsowman> but recently it's got to the stage where we can't postpone it any longer
[11:45] <costyn> agreed
[11:45] <tioukcom> The lists are not a place for advertisement of interesting articles, seminars or blogs, even if they are related to HAB, but we will post adverts for products we can pre-approve adverts for sale
[11:47] <jonsowman> the point there is that a couple of UKHAS members run businesses selling HAB products specifically for the benefit of other UKHAS members
[11:47] <jonsowman> so a post from them saying "NTX2s now in stock" is fine, in that point (8) also applies
[11:48] <tioukcom> but no blogs on HAB related activities?
[11:49] <costyn> just a link is not okay, but what about starting a discussions with "I saw this article here and thought it would be relevant to ukhas because etc"?
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[11:49] <jonsowman> costyn: yep, agreed, that's already been pointed out and the wording will be clarified
[11:49] <jonsowman> tioukcom: as costyn said, posting saying "here's my HAB blog: x" is not allowed
[11:50] <tioukcom> top posting is the norm, moderators will notify posters, but no sanction is listed such as a temporary ban if the users doesn't learn.
[11:50] <jonsowman> if it's in the context of replying to a question, such as "see this blog, page 2, post 3, which answers your question" then that's OK
[11:50] <jonsowman> the key word in (4) is "advertisement"
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[11:51] <jonsowman> tioukcom: wrt sanctions for continued breaches of (3) - I've noted that down, thank you
[11:52] <tioukcom> so an advertisement for a blog is different from saying come see my blog? How, in the eye of the moderator?
[11:52] <jonsowman> no no, it's context that matters
[11:52] <costyn> tioukcom: well there has to be something of interest to general UKHAS, not just trying to get pageviews on your blog
[11:53] <tioukcom> If you have rule, you have to phrase them carefully, for the sake of both side.
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[11:53] <jonsowman> tioukcom: I agree. (4) will be reworded
[11:53] <jonsowman> You are not the first person to point that out
[11:53] <costyn> tioukcom: something like: I posted an article on my blog on data analysis accellerometer data on my last payload, if anyone's interested
[11:53] <costyn> I think that's something that would ok
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[11:54] <jonsowman> yes
[11:54] <tioukcom> costyn: take a new user, they rarely scroll down too many pages, if they see a blog and learn something that's good.
[11:54] <costyn> tioukcom: I'm not sure I understand, elaborate?
[11:54] <tioukcom> costyn: that's not what the rule states, that is what I'm getting at
[11:55] <costyn> tioukcom: no, but the rules can't cover every base. maybe the rules can say "if in doubt, post, the moderators will let you know if it's not ok"
[11:55] <jonsowman> costyn: that's a good general point actually
[11:55] <jonsowman> we should say in general that if you're in doubt about a post, post it anyway
[11:55] <jonsowman> noted :) thanks
[11:56] <costyn> think we want to avoid making the mailing list docu 5 pages long; then nobody will want to read it
[11:56] <costyn> jonsowman: np
[11:56] <jonsowman> costyn: yes I'm very conscious of length
[11:57] <tioukcom> For a start, nobody is going to read it until they get moderated.
[11:57] <jonsowman> tioukcom: that is intentional
[11:57] <costyn> hehe likely
[11:57] <tioukcom> Than they're going to question it because it is n_not_ clear
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[11:57] <tioukcom> then sorry
[11:57] <costyn> tioukcom: I'm sure the moderator will elaborate on why it's been moderated?
[11:58] <tioukcom> Then why have a the rule document?
[11:58] <jonsowman> the idea is that there will be a generic "moderated, please read the policy" message sent on rejection
[11:58] <jonsowman> this should catch 95% of cases and makes moderation very easy
[11:58] <tioukcom> I give in, time to move on.
[11:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Mailing List Plans"
[11:59] <costyn> top posting sucks because I already read the previous message and don't want to scroll through it
[11:59] <costyn> unless you're replying inline
[11:59] <costyn> i mean
[12:00] <costyn> bottom posting sucks because I already read the previous message and don't want to scroll through it
[12:00] <tioukcom> Re: Insurance. Try not to make learning science and IT too much more expensive, it cost enough to show school children how exciting science is already.
[12:00] <eroomde> tioukcom: insurance is not necessary
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[12:00] <eroomde> the hobby has come this far without it
[12:00] <jonsowman> costyn: yeah it's a difficult one
[12:00] <eroomde> it's in response to people who say they don't want to launch without it
[12:00] <eroomde> it's for their benefit
[12:00] <eroomde> it's not mandatory
[12:00] <jonsowman> costyn: really we just want consistency
[12:01] <tioukcom> You can't tell by reading the groups post on insurance, I tried posting something similar but newbies will not know as it was moderated.
[12:01] <costyn> jonsowman: yes, bottom posting used to be part of netiquette but I really don't see the use any more with nicely threaded email clients and the google groups gui
[12:01] <tioukcom> eromode: ????
[12:02] <eroomde> tioukcom: i interpreted your point as being that insurance could make the cost prohibitive to schools
[12:02] <jonsowman> costyn: yeah, I don't really want to be having arguments about whether we choose top or bottom, because it will just go on forever
[12:03] <jonsowman> i agree that with modern mail clients it's not so much of an issue though :)
[12:03] <eroomde> i am saying thatit's possible to do it without insurance, has has been the case with most school things so far
[12:03] <costyn> should I refrain from replying to Colin? to stop starting a flame war? :)
[12:03] <DrLuke> http://i46.tinypic.com/2j4vpsi.jpg
[12:03] <daveake> Can we outlaw Steve's MAHOOSIVE FONTS ? :p
[12:03] <DrLuke> 2 yagis in my doorway
[12:03] <costyn> daveake: yes please!
[12:03] <jonsowman> daveake: haha, I think that was a one-off and he's now changed it afaik
[12:03] <daveake> Yes he has
[12:03] Nick change: KyleYankan -> LittleGirl
[12:04] <costyn> DrLuke: nice!
[12:04] Nick change: LittleGirl -> KyleJerkface
[12:04] <DrLuke> thanks :)
[12:04] Nick change: KyleJerkface -> KyleYankan
[12:04] <jonsowman> costyn: you could reply to him directly if you like, but I'd rather the email thread didn't degenerate into a top/bottom posting discussion
[12:04] <costyn> DrLuke: you got that 10 euro one ?
[12:04] <DrLuke> yes, that's the small one
[12:04] <DrLuke> the other one is the huge for 30 euro
[12:04] <tioukcom> eroomde: too everyone, I doubt you will get it at a price anyone can afford, too many variables, then you will get a regulator saying you can't flt without it and a pain in their side will go away.
[12:05] <costyn> jonsowman: I'm sure someone will reply to it and start the flamewar :)
[12:05] <mfa298> Regarding the Top/Bottom posting. Bottom posting only works if people properly trim what they're replying to. most of the time people just hit reply and don't remove the redundant stuff at which point there's little between them (but top posting makes life easier all around)
[12:05] <eroomde> tioukcom: that's highly speculative
[12:05] <eroomde> to the point of not being particularly credible
[12:05] <jonsowman> costyn: if that happens I'll stick everyone on moderation for a bit
[12:05] <costyn> mfa298: agreed
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[12:05] <costyn> jonsowman: thanks :)
[12:05] <daveake> tioukcom Some flights already do have insurance
[12:05] <jonsowman> we won't let it descend into that
[12:06] <costyn> yay for moderation hehe
[12:06] <jonsowman> haha
[12:06] <jonsowman> indeed
[12:06] <daveake> And I don't see regulators deciding that because some have it everyone has to have it
[12:06] <eroomde> i don't think regulators have lifted a finger so far on that regard. we are lost in the noise compared to meteorological balloon flights
[12:06] <tioukcom> daveake: cost per flight?
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[12:07] <hibby> ello!
[12:07] <eroomde> tioukcom: that's being investigated at the moment
[12:07] <jonsowman> hi hibby, thanks for your email :)
[12:07] <eroomde> historically it's been very expensive but that's because people have been approaching as private individuals
[12:07] <hibby> pleasure :)
[12:07] <eroomde> me for instance
[12:07] <hibby> I should really sort out irssi.conf on this box
[12:07] <hibby> but I'm a lazy dick.
[12:07] <eroomde> i think i agreed about £600/flight
[12:08] <eroomde> at the conference the round number discussion was about £50 per flight
[12:08] <eroomde> apart from a couple of we're-all-going-to-die!!!-ers who said they were prepared to spend a bit more
[12:09] <daveake> My thought process on that was .... gas is ~£50 per flight, balloon ditto, petrol for my habmobile ditto.
[12:09] <hibby> but now I've got a real job and can't claim to work in academia misteaching the undergrads, my time is at more of a premium!
[12:09] <tioukcom> eroomde: Do you think the CAA will like it if HAB becomes popular, we will become a pain in their side. UAV is another name for radio control, people been doing it for years, now it's becoming a problem and is receiving unwelcome attention.
[12:09] <eroomde> tioukcom: met office do about 3000/year in the uk
[12:09] <eroomde> we do about 50
[12:10] <daveake> 40 if I retire :D
[12:10] <Darkside> haha
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[12:11] <eroomde> we can cross the problems that come with being an order of magnitude bigger when we're more like an order of magnitude bigger
[12:11] <tioukcom> met office = quasi state = np. They don't usually launch 1.5KG of cameras, do they?
[12:11] <eroomde> no but neither do habbers
[12:11] <Darkside> they launch 100g payloads, usually from airprots
[12:11] <Darkside> they have a much higher chance of hitting a plane than our launches
[12:11] <eroomde> most payloads nowadays are about 500g
[12:11] <tioukcom> Darkside: my point.
[12:12] <Darkside> but they launch from airports
[12:12] <Darkside> we avoid airports
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[12:12] <jonsowman> hi ejcweb
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[12:13] <ejcweb> hello jonsowman!
[12:13] <jonsowman> how're you
[12:14] <costyn> Darkside: well if you launch from an airport, there's unlikely to be planes above the airport since they're going to be either landing or taking off close to the airport
[12:14] <ejcweb> jonsowman: good thanks (now timezone acclimatised which is a plus!), and making one of my increasingly rare #highaltitude appearances :)
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[12:16] <hibby> ejcweb: I know the feeling!
[12:22] <fsphil> aah, new people :)
[12:23] <hibby> haha
[12:23] <hibby> how goes old chap?
[12:23] <jonsowman> ejcweb: yes you've not been on here ina w hile :)
[12:25] <fsphil> ahh spiffy over here hibby
[12:25] <fsphil> all*
[12:26] <hibby> lovely
[12:26] <fsphil> you finally got free time?
[12:26] <costyn> could you people be a little less British please? :P
[12:26] <costyn> oh wait...
[12:26] <Darkside> he's got the hibby jibbys
[12:26] <hibby> costyn: http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/im_so_british.jpg :)
[12:27] <hibby> except, I'm further from London than ever.
[12:27] <costyn> hibby: that yes
[12:27] <costyn> :)
[12:27] <hibby> fsphil: not really, just restarted ssh with access on :443
[12:29] <fsphil> I'd be impressed if you grew a beard like that
[12:29] <hibby> I'd be single if I grew a beard like that.
[12:30] <fsphil> only a slight flaw
[12:30] <MrScienceMan> I'd be a baws with a beard like that.
[12:30] <fsphil> you'd end up with more free time to do cool stuff
[12:30] <MrScienceMan> like comb my beard?
[12:31] <MrScienceMan> splendid
[12:31] <kokey> need to figure out what mobile networks have good 3G coverage
[12:31] <fsphil> exactly
[12:31] <kokey> O2 is useless on my commute
[12:31] <Darkside> o2 was crap while i was in the uk
[12:31] <Darkside> i mean
[12:31] <Darkside> i had coverage, just not 3g coverage
[12:31] <fsphil> I found them alright
[12:31] <Darkside> i kept on dropping back to GPRS or EDGE
[12:31] <fsphil> in london anyway
[12:32] <kokey> O2's 3G is fine inside of London
[12:32] <hibby> fsphil: it's alright, she got reposted to Glasgow as soon as I moved out the city, so I've still got "loads" of free time
[12:32] <hibby> I just spend it shopping, and, um, cleaning, and waiting for internet
[12:32] <kokey> but get on a train, the moment it starts moving, it's useless
[12:32] <hibby> I'm not with BT after I had a fall out with their sales and engineering teams...
[12:32] <hibby> where I was right and they weren't.
[12:33] <fsphil> I'd love to get rid of BT
[12:33] <hibby> I'd love BT.
[12:33] <hibby> They have fiber in my area
[12:33] <hibby> but they told me they didn't
[12:33] <fsphil> I have fttc :)
[12:34] <hibby> so I pulled up relevant databases at work and told them exactly where they had fiber, and in what cabinet, and how I was connected to that cabinet...
[12:34] <hibby> and the scriptmonkey escalated me a few times, and eventually an "engineer" told me it wasn't marked as RFS yet... which my databse said it was.
[12:34] <hibby> SO I then queried why incorrect connectivity databases were being sent to clients.
[12:36] Action: costyn grabs popcorn
[12:36] <kokey> I don't particularly like three's roaming costs
[12:37] <fsphil> three have suprisingly good coverage here outside the towns and cities
[12:37] <hibby> He didn't really go much further, and I notified our relevant people that things weren't ideal... and that I was using commercial resources to get me some fast broadband.
[12:37] <hibby> Up here at my lovely new flat, we're somewhat in the back of the world's connectivity agenda.
[12:37] <hibby> odd, given it's scotland's most affluent "city"
[12:38] <fsphil> glasgow?
[12:38] <hibby> Aberdeen
[12:38] <fsphil> I've not been there so far
[12:38] <hibby> where unemployment doesn't shrink, and engineering wages are... well, yes. good
[12:39] <kokey> sounds nice
[12:39] <fsphil> looks cold
[12:40] <hibby> depends on your morals, and good lord it's bloody freezing
[12:40] <hibby> already hovering about 2/3C at night and 8-10C daytime
[12:40] <fsphil> edinburgh has a nasty cold wind coming of the north sea. aberdeen looks like it has that, plus it's further north
[12:41] <hibby> Aye, a good chunk more north too... it's like, 200mi by road.
[12:41] <hibby> which I didn't realise until I moved up and covered... 2.5k miles in about 2 months going back down to glasgow to get stuff and see folks/etc
[12:41] <fsphil> winter days average 6 hours and 40 minutes of daylight
[12:42] <hibby> statistically, we see more sun than anywhere else in scotland though!
[12:42] <gonzo_> I used to have to do that journey regulatly, prestwick to fraserburgh
[12:44] <hibby> beautiful
[12:45] <gonzo_> fraserburgh is a nice place. Girls hanging about on the streets with cans of special brew at lunch time. Nice
[12:45] <daveake> classy
[12:46] <kokey> I've never been to edinburgh in summer, and I've always liked it
[12:46] <kokey> it's made for the weather really
[12:46] <gonzo_> I've liked not being in edinburgh too
[12:47] <fsphil> it was oddly hot when I was in edinburgh last time
[12:47] <gonzo_> not as much as I like not being in fraserburgh
[12:49] <hibby> HAHAH
[12:49] <hibby> ooh, caps... hmm
[12:50] <fsphil> lol
[12:50] <fsphil> right, lunch time. pancakes!
[12:56] <eroomde> i love pancakes
[12:56] <eroomde> especially savoury
[12:59] <DrLuke> http://i48.tinypic.com/240zogg.png
[12:59] <DrLuke> it's like the only way it fits into my froom
[12:59] <DrLuke> room*
[13:00] <costyn> ooh it's so biiig ;)
[13:01] <costyn> DrLuke: where you gonna mount it?
[13:01] <DrLuke> probably on my hand
[13:01] <daveake> How many Upus long is that?
[13:01] <DrLuke> I don't know, 2 to 3?
[13:01] <daveake> :)
[13:01] <DrLuke> :P
[13:01] <costyn> I think I missed the new SI unit Upu
[13:01] <daveake> I just invented it
[13:01] <DrLuke> it's actually called a stirk
[13:02] <DrLuke> and it already exists
[13:02] <costyn> but the stirk is a measure of gas volume
[13:02] <daveake> That's volume not length
[13:02] <DrLuke> but you can't have 2 units named after the same guy
[13:02] <costyn> it does get confusing
[13:02] <DrLuke> or are they upunits?
[13:02] <costyn> ghehe
[13:03] <costyn> DrLuke: but seriously, where you gonna mount it... cause this isn't an antenna for "on the road" chasing your HAB
[13:03] <DrLuke> well that's what I intended it for, lol
[13:03] <MrScienceMan> drive with one hand
[13:04] <MrScienceMan> point with the other
[13:04] <costyn> DrLuke: then why did you get the small one? :)
[13:04] <MrScienceMan> couldn't be any less unsafe :D
[13:04] <DrLuke> I don't know, in case the big one gets too impractical
[13:04] <DrLuke> the big one also has a narrower angle
[13:04] <DrLuke> so it might be harder to actually find the balloon
[13:05] <gonzo_> a candidate for being shown on 'police, camera, action'
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[13:05] <DrLuke> haha
[13:06] <costyn> DrLuke: the small one is indeed relatively wide
[13:06] <gonzo_> longy yabi is impractical for a car, try it on a bike. More clearance
[13:07] <DrLuke> haha
[13:08] <costyn> yea you can mount it along the frame of your bike
[13:08] <costyn> although the pointy bits might poke into other soft fleshy bits
[13:08] <DrLuke> really amazing would be if you build a bike with a frame that is an antenna
[13:10] <costyn> DrLuke: hehe that would be clever
[13:10] <DrLuke> anyways
[13:10] <DrLuke> my antenna has a seperator in the middle
[13:11] <DrLuke> so you just undo 2 screws and you have 2 halves
[13:11] <DrLuke> and they're both short enough to fit in my volvo
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[13:15] <gonzo_> if you choose the design carefully, it is possible to have a yagi that will work with or without having the 2nd half attached
[13:16] <gonzo_> some of them just go to pot if you remove elements
[13:17] <DrLuke> For some reason yagis seem like magic to me
[13:18] <gonzo_> they rely on each element picking up some signal and reradiating it
[13:18] <DrLuke> I mean, I understand what the reflector and directors are for, but I can't really imagine how it'd work
[13:18] <DrLuke> well yeah
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[13:18] <gonzo_> the majic is in the phase that it does that. So position and length
[13:20] <DrLuke> oh well
[13:21] <gonzo_> the reflector just pics up the signal from the driven element and reradiates it. Becayse of where it is and the length (which is longer than a half wave, so it adds an inductiove component into the mix, giving a phase shift) you get a cabncelling of the signal behind the antenna (signals out of phase) and a boost of the suig th the forwards direction (the tws signals adding in phase)
[13:21] <gonzo_> just correct the typo's as youv go
[13:26] <daveake> Added a logo to my badge display ... http://imgur.com/uKecg
[13:26] <DrLuke> yeah
[13:26] <DrLuke> cool!
[13:26] <daveake> Should have done this during lunch at the conf for extra HAB points :)
[13:27] <Darkside> daveake: how did you get it on the avr?
[13:27] <Darkside> converted to xpm or something?
[13:27] <DrLuke> I'd do it with an array of bytes
[13:28] <daveake> Just used a converter to create source code with the hex bitmap data
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[13:28] <daveake> This came from the Adafruit site, though I've got one I wrote myself somewhere
[13:29] <daveake> So it ends up something like ...
[13:29] <daveake> static unsigned char __attribute__ ((progmem)) UKHAS [] = {
[13:29] <daveake> 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x80, 0xE0, 0x70, 0x18, 0x78, 0x7C,
[13:29] <daveake> etc
[13:30] <daveake> The display itself is much sharper than the pic makes it look
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[13:48] <costyn> is this badge/display thingie something standard you can buy from sparkfun? or did someone (Upu) make all them?
[13:49] <DrLuke> the badge is custom made
[13:52] <Darkside> Upu designed the pcb, and soldered on 50 AVRs and crystals
[13:52] <Darkside> poor Upu :(
[13:52] <Darkside> the design files are online i think, if you really want to get some made
[13:52] <fsphil> gimp can do that iirc
[13:53] <fsphil> (bitmap conversion for avr)
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[13:53] <fsphil> I've got a good idea of what to do with mine, although it doesn't involve launching it
[13:54] <costyn> Darkside: ah ok :)
[13:54] <Darkside> but its probably best to ma
[13:55] <Darkside> fsphil: either xpm of xbm does that
[13:55] <Darkside> file formats, i mean
[13:55] <Darkside> one of them is basically a C file, with one array - the image
[13:55] <Darkside> i think its xbm
[13:56] <fsphil> indeedy
[13:56] <Darkside> well, i'm through security, now just waiting for boarding
[13:57] <Darkside> got patted down at the xray, as i didn't remove my shoes
[13:57] <Darkside> and thus, beeped
[14:02] <eroomde> and what did the x-ray machine do?
[14:06] <fsphil> beeping shoes in an airport are a definite no-no
[14:08] <fsphil> they took my bottle of water from me
[14:08] <fsphil> gits
[14:15] <costyn> fsphil: some airports, if you drink the water in front of them, they let you take it
[14:15] <DrLuke> aww yuck, the small antenna comes preassembled?!
[14:15] <DrLuke> no fun allowed :/
[14:15] <costyn> DrLuke: were you looking forward to "some assembly required"?
[14:15] <DrLuke> yeah
[14:16] <DrLuke> it was fun on the big antenna
[14:16] <costyn> only like 6 or 7 screws hehe
[14:16] <DrLuke> actually like 20 or so :P
[14:16] <DrLuke> it also comes without any connector, you cirectly clamp a coax into it
[14:16] <DrLuke> I like that
[14:16] <costyn> DrLuke: I mean the small antenna has only a few scres
[14:16] <costyn> screws
[14:17] <DrLuke> yeah
[14:17] <DrLuke> I see why it was so cheap now
[14:17] <DrLuke> I think the big antenna was a real bargain for 30¬
[14:18] <DrLuke> it has solid round bars for directors/reflectors
[14:18] <costyn> DrLuke: nice, wont bend or distort by manhandling it then?
[14:18] <DrLuke> yep
[14:19] <DrLuke> the plastic bits holding the bars in place also fit tightly on the main rod
[14:19] <DrLuke> all I need now is a tripod
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[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> afternoon all
[14:23] <eroomde> hello Dan-K2VOL
[14:23] <DrLuke> hi
[14:23] <eroomde> where are you now?
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm in McDonalds in Paris
[14:23] <eroomde> an american in paris
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Wifi is hard to find here, and google maps is completely wrong on where entire streets are 90% of the time
[14:24] <MrScienceMan> you must be using iOS 6
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> and the "fair" usage policy by the telco here is 400mb every 3 DAYS
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> Ah no, that would be Apple Maps in that case, it couldn't be much worse than this
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[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> but anyway, enough complaining, it's nice here
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> and I've discovered a new book
[14:26] <MrScienceMan> did you discover any girls in paris?
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Les ballons au service de la recherche : l'aérostation scientifique des origines à nos jours
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> from 2011
[14:26] <gonzo_> McDonalds in Paris??!!
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> there are indeed girls in paris!
[14:26] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: get a beer while you're tehre
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[14:26] <hibby> last macdo I went into in paris, I came out drunk
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> ha gonzo_ I wouldn't have come here if I had a choice, but I needed internet, and resuarants and coffee shops here don't seem to have wifi
[14:26] <MrScienceMan> excellent, nothing has changed since my last visit then
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> lol really hibby, I should
[14:27] <DrLuke> how can you get drunk at McD?
[14:27] <MrScienceMan> he's got the skills
[14:27] <hibby> DrLuke: many french ones offer beer as well as soft drinks
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> The book is all about the history of the french scientific ballooning program
[14:27] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: how do you find these things!
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> oh hibby, I've been on a quest for balloon knowledge since february
[14:28] <hibby> also, this'll be of interest to you - we're currently deploying an ISDN-over-Satellite system
[14:28] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: any constructiond etails?
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> it's not been easy
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> I haven't actually got my hands on it yet, though Amazon sells it
[14:28] <Laurenceb> hi Dan
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> the library here in Paris has it, so I'll go there to see how good it is before I buy it, I wish there was an ebook version
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[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> I have french balloon reports and the NASA translations of the same, so those are sort of ballooning rosetta stones for me!
[14:30] <Laurenceb> Dan-K2VOL: i keep meaning to do some tests of silicone PSA
[14:30] <Laurenceb> i will soon for sure :P
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Laurenceb
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> do you have the data sheets?
[14:30] <Laurenceb> we have quite a few of these products at work
[14:30] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> really hibby
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[14:30] <Laurenceb> but they are very very limited
[14:31] <Laurenceb> you have to find out
[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> who's the provider hibby?
[14:31] <Laurenceb> by testing
[14:33] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: we rent space from a few of the networks, integrate the various parts and have a dedicated ground station here for control. The dishes are huge.
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> cool Laurenceb, to get the answer we need, try to bond two pieces of mylar film (a.k.a. melinex/PET/polyester terephthalate) with it in a lap seam and see how much tension it takes to pull the samples apart when pulling the films perpendicular to the seal
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> a 2cm wide seal would be typical
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> at temperatures of dry ice
[14:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:35] <Laurenceb> i have access to some freezers
[14:36] <Laurenceb> i was thinking it may make assembly easier in some ways
[14:36] <Laurenceb> i was kind of looking at a 1m diameter superpressure design
[14:36] <Laurenceb> with 100gram total mass
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> the testing must be done below -60C or it's not really worth doing
[14:36] <Laurenceb> small enough to be buildable
[14:36] <Laurenceb> yeah i knoiw
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> awesome if you have chambers that low!!!
[14:37] <Laurenceb> i spoke with our contact at dow-corning and their silicone psa is supposed to adhere down to -90c
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> that's a great place to start
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[14:37] <Laurenceb> i can find some industrial freezers
[14:38] <Laurenceb> we use the psa for assembling medical sensors
[14:38] <Laurenceb> made from PET/silicone/polyamide pcb
[14:39] <Laurenceb> its dissolved in ethyl acetate and sprayed
[14:41] <Laurenceb> i currently have a sensor on the side of my book shelf
[14:41] <Laurenceb> - silicone encapsulated with 500grams hanging off
[14:41] <Laurenceb> been there for 6 months
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[14:42] <Laurenceb> actually thats 3M stuff
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> the goal in tensile testing the seal is to have the PET film break without the seal coming apart
[14:43] <Laurenceb> 91022 transfer adhesive, so not relevant
[14:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:47] <eroomde> You Know You're a PhD STudent When
[14:47] <eroomde> [from a friend who just emailed]
[14:48] <eroomde> "I just spent a while trying to manhandle latex into doing something, and resorted to searching the internet and eventually found the answer on a forum where some guy had the same issue. Then I noticed that the guy was me, two years ago. Sigh."
[14:48] <hibby> hahah
[14:48] <eroomde> slae logic is marvellous, btw
[14:48] <eroomde> i love it
[14:48] <eroomde> it has just paid for itself about 10 times over
[14:49] <eroomde> salae*
[14:49] <daveake> yup
[14:49] <eroomde> it's saved a £400 dev board
[14:49] <eroomde> by being able to capture 10B samples at 40MHz across 5 channels simultaneously
[14:49] <eroomde> which is about 5 mins of data, which is exactly about the amount of data I need for something
[14:50] <hibby> nice
[14:51] <hibby> fairly low clock speed... but if I remove my microwave systems hat for a while, it looks good :)
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> nice laurenceb
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I mean eroomde
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> love the logic
[14:52] <eroomde> hibby: this is for digital signals :)
[14:52] <hibby> eroomde: yeah, figured. Is pretty cool
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the uk balloon sourcing site?
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> steve's I think?
[14:53] <daveake> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes, and I see UPU's site from there too
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks dave
[14:54] <daveake> Such a nice pic on that page :p
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> UpuWork are you around?
[14:56] <UpuWork> sort of
[14:56] <UpuWork> having a very busy afternoon
[14:56] <UpuWork> so I'll respond as I can
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[14:58] <eroomde> hello UpuWork
[14:58] <eroomde> XD
[14:59] <UpuWork> exactly
[15:00] <eroomde> hello UpuWork
[15:00] <eroomde> xD
[15:00] <UpuWork> I'm fine
[15:00] <eroomde> how are you UpuWork ?
[15:00] <eroomde> [we're testing out jon's new top posting scheme)
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[15:01] <UpuWork> I'm busy watching some polish people trying to brute force and SQL inject my server thanks for asking do you have anything interesting to tell me ?
[15:01] <UpuWork> interesting != buses
[15:02] <eroomde> hello UpuWork
[15:02] <eroomde> xD
[15:02] <UpuWork> lol
[15:02] <eroomde> today i noticed something
[15:02] <fsphil> uhoh
[15:02] <eroomde> the payload does not working
[15:03] <eroomde> it has not worked for some days or so
[15:03] <eroomde> i have not changed anything
[15:04] <eroomde> i plug it into the power supply
[15:04] <eroomde> but there are no volts on my pins
[15:05] <eroomde> there has been a power cut for some days because of flooding
[15:05] <eroomde> do you think this might explain it?
[15:05] <eroomde> or should i solder a resisor to the ceiling?
[15:05] <eroomde> and if so where on the ceiling?
[15:07] <gonzo_> it would be artistic. You could blog about it
[15:07] <kokey> sounds like the desktop PC I have at home
[15:07] <kokey> it's as consistent as a woman
[15:08] <MrScienceMan> UpuWork: inject some witty comments in the http response
[15:09] <kokey> it does remind me of my friends who works in support for dial up ISPs who told me about people trying to get their internet to work when the power is out
[15:10] <kokey> UpuWork: it's weird I've seen two different serious attack attempt against the site for a business I have, over the past week
[15:10] <UpuWork> its been getting daft we've had loads this week
[15:11] <kokey> it must be as the weather gets cooler
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[15:12] <kokey> at least since the schools and universities opened many online forums had a significant drop in trolling
[15:13] <MrScienceMan> i remember seeing two 3rd year CS studunets trying to SQL inject the linux login prompt
[15:14] <MrScienceMan> skipped the rest of the day, it was too much bear
[15:14] <MrScienceMan> bare*
[15:15] <MrScienceMan> no bear
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[15:16] <Laurenceb> kokey: thats cuz they arent on trolliday any more
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[15:34] <stilldavid> so I'm not too bright before coffee, but where's the latest dl-fldigi live these days?
[15:36] <DanielRichman> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi has all the links you could dream of
[15:36] <eroomde> not strictly true ^
[15:36] <fsphil> hah
[15:37] <stilldavid> ah, so the downloads aren't on github
[15:37] Action: stilldavid drinks caffeine
[15:37] <DanielRichman> I don't think they are, no
[15:37] <fsphil> binaries are on habitat.org
[15:37] <DanielRichman> it was easier to just scp them to habhub at the time
[15:37] <fsphil> er, habhub.org
[15:38] Action: fsphil should start drinking caffine
[15:38] <fsphil> actually no, it's horrible
[15:38] <stilldavid> horribly... awesome.
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[15:40] <kokey> I stopped consuming caffeine
[15:40] <eroomde> well that was stupid
[15:40] <kokey> became very sensitive to it because I didn't consume any
[15:40] <fsphil> s/stupid/wise/
[15:40] <kokey> in 2006 I decided I am going to make myself get used to it again
[15:41] <fsphil> noooo
[15:41] <kokey> it's only last year that I managed to be able to handle starbucks strength
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[15:42] <eroomde> it was only about 4 starbucks that made me be able to handle giving a talk before midday
[15:43] <eroomde> and that little coffee place outside the new hunt building
[15:44] <Laurenceb> how is balloon formed?
[15:45] <fsphil> tiny elves
[15:45] <Laurenceb> how pet get bonded
[15:45] <fsphil> they hold hands
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[15:49] <kokey> my former housemate, is skinny, chinese and eats super healthy, never any fatty anything, fit, did the london to paris cycling
[15:49] <kokey> turns out he has very high cholesterol
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[16:30] <eroomde> tioukcom: i'm just having a read of your website
[16:30] <eroomde> it's good
[16:30] <eroomde> i like the idea very much
[16:36] <eroomde> note on your twitter feed that some of the tiny hd cams are known to produce a lot of interference on the gps L1 frequency, causing gps units to loose lock
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[17:03] <SpeedEvil> when did I ping out ?
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> shortly after 1?
[17:03] <zyp> 14:05:31 -!- SpeedEvil [~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:04] <zyp> that would be 13:05 UK time
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> thanks
[17:04] Action: SpeedEvil ponders why.
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> ah, I was screwing around with stuff to get my printer working for submitting forms to the soulless minions of orthodoxy.
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[17:15] <G0DJA> "soulless minions of orthodoxy" sounds like a rival motorcycle gang on Sons Of Anarchy" ...
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[17:22] <G0DJA> But Google tells me that it's a line from Deep Space 9 - I should have guessed really
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[17:25] <eroomde> lol
[17:25] <eroomde> the internet can dissapoint you
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[17:27] <SpeedEvil> in this case, her majsties courts and tribunals service ( social security and child support)
[17:27] <G0DJA> Ah! *Them!*
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> 16 pages of shite.
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[17:28] <G0DJA> I have recently had dealings with the Office of the Public Guardian - very Orwellian sounding name that one
[17:29] <eroomde> yes incredibly
[17:30] <eroomde> what do they do?
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> they deal with enduring powers of attorney.
[17:30] <G0DJA> In my case they grant, or not, Powers of Attorney,
[17:31] <G0DJA> And you need two now - One for health and welfare and another for finance
[17:31] <G0DJA> So that's two lots of almost identical paperwork to fill out
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> fun
[17:31] <G0DJA> Woe betide you if you get any of them mixed up...
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> and now I need to see about initiating a judicial review.
[17:32] <G0DJA> That should be "interesting" for some value of not very
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> on the grounds of Wednesday unreasonableness of one of my earlier tribunal decisions.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> they basically utterly ignored a 20 page submission, without mentioning why they ignored it in the statement of reasons, which they can't do.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> (legally)
[17:34] <G0DJA> Doesn't sound very clever
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> i have a fun flowchart, which has 16 different separate ways to get to 'this was an unreasonable decision'
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> joy
[17:35] <G0DJA> It's what keeps lawyers in Porches and £2million pound houses though
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> and legal aid for benefits is going away, as they are 'simple matters of fact'
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Especially fun is that it remains for cases where the tribunal realises it made an error.
[17:36] <G0DJA> A Judge once asked why I didn't have a solicitor, but my ex did, and I replied that if I could afford a solicitor I could pay the maintenance...
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> chocolate teapot
[17:37] <G0DJA> And that she had one because I'd been paying the maintenance up until I was made redundant - went down like a lead balloon, if you pardon the pun
[17:38] <G0DJA> Shopping and getting Indian Takeaway calls - Back later
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[17:39] Action: SpeedEvil has been wondering again about teeny camera blimps
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[19:00] <Upu> ping costyn
[19:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Conference 2012"
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[19:19] <clem_> hey all
[19:21] <clem_> I've been playing with the idea of building my own HAB for a while but I'd like to attend a launch and join a project (even a future one). Where should I start?
[19:21] <stilldavid> where are you located?
[19:21] <clem_> I'm in Bristol
[19:24] <Upu> he clem_ evening
[19:24] <Upu> Firstly hang round here
[19:24] <clem_> Hi Upu
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[19:24] <Upu> secondly http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
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[19:24] <Upu> But yes attending a launch is highly recommended
[19:24] <fsphil> very much so
[19:24] <Upu> most people are happy to have you there
[19:25] <clem_> yep, I read that, it looks awesome!
[19:25] <Upu> just keep an eye on the mailing list for launches
[19:25] <clem_> yep, I just joined! hehe
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[19:27] <Upu> hey Amadiro :)
[19:27] <Amadiro> Evening
[19:28] <Upu> This is generally the place for high altitude stuff
[19:29] <Upu> balloons mainly
[19:29] <fsphil> the odd brave fool doing rockets :)
[19:29] <Upu> though if you start talking about rockets sure no one will mind :)
[19:30] <Amadiro> heh. Are there any general resources available somewhere, like documentation on previous projects people have done, material constraints et cetera?
[19:30] <Upu> ok first and foremost http://ukhas.org.uk
[19:30] <Upu> Secondly http://arhab.org has links to a huge number of projects
[19:30] <Amadiro> Cool, I'll have a look
[19:30] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[19:30] <Upu> start there
[19:31] <Amadiro> Upu, all the launches on ukhas are UK-based, happen to know of any teams in norway/sweden?
[19:31] <Upu> well firstly alot of them are UK based
[19:31] <Upu> but we've had launches in Germany, Netherlands, Slovakia
[19:31] <Upu> Poland
[19:31] <Upu> etc
[19:32] <Upu> I've not come across any from Norway and Sweden its about time we had some coverage there :)
[19:32] <Amadiro> would be nice
[19:32] <Amadiro> I don't know yet whether I'll actually be having the time (and a team) to get into it yet
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[19:36] <Upu> well here is a good place to get advice
[19:37] <Amadiro> Right. I'm currently having a look around to find out whether other people are interested, as well as building some early prototypes of some of the involved electronics
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[19:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Clem "Re: [UKHAS] Anybody in the Bath area?"
[19:38] <Amadiro> We already have a bunch of people with programming/electronics/pcb design knowledge onboard, some people from the chemistry department seem to interested, some people from the physics department, and I'm trying to find some people who are studying mechanics (fluid dynamics, preferrably) who are interested as well
[19:39] <Upu> sounds like you're off to a head start
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[19:40] <Amadiro> well, we'll see how it works out, there are a lot of variables
[19:40] <Amadiro> we should probably set us specific goals, like "have a balloon prototype go this high" and then "have the first rocket go this high" et cetera
[19:40] <Upu> I understand getting a rocket to the height of the balloons is pretty hard
[19:41] <Upu> eroomde is probably your chap for that
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[19:41] <Amadiro> Upu, yeah, that's why I thought it best to start with balloons, either way
[19:41] <Upu> sure
[19:41] <Amadiro> E.g. send up some sensors to figure out the precise conditions like temperatures et cetera
[19:42] <Upu> it gets warmer
[19:42] <Amadiro> Upu, oh really
[19:42] <Upu> about 20km its -50'c but as you go up it gets warmer
[19:43] <Upu> well -50'C on our sensors, I understand they are generally out by alot
[19:43] <Amadiro> Upu, what type of sensors do you use?
[19:43] <Upu> Personally DS18B20's
[19:44] <Amadiro> Upu, that's the one I'm using, mostly
[19:45] <Amadiro> they seem to be pretty reliable to me, but I've only ever used them in the positive temperature range so far
[19:45] <Amadiro> i.e. between +20C and +80C
[19:45] <Upu> They always seem out by about 5-10' to me
[19:46] <Upu> But I don't have an accurate reference
[19:46] <Upu> however someone recently launched a proper Vasala Sonde alongside a payload running those
[19:46] <Upu> sec see if I can find it
[19:47] <clem_> Is there a calendar of the lauches available? How can I check it?
[19:47] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/
[19:47] <Upu> click Calendar
[19:47] <fsphil> you'll find launches tend to only get announced about a week before
[19:48] <Upu> Amadiro
[19:48] <Upu> http://stsproject.net/?p=368#more-368
[19:48] <Upu> its in Slovak
[19:48] <Upu> but you can Google Translate it
[19:48] <Upu> http://stsproject.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Screen-Shot-2012-09-18-at-17.12.09.png
[19:48] <Upu> Red - DS1820
[19:48] <clem_> oh, great!
[19:49] <Upu> Blue = Vaisala RS92-SGPD
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[19:50] <clem_> err... how do I open it?
[19:50] <Upu> its an ICS file
[19:52] <clem_> Thank you very much!
[19:53] <Amadiro> Upu, nice. Contractions of PCBs and other components are my biggest concerns for the control electronics right now, because it limits whether I can use BGA, for example
[19:54] <Upu> you don't need to use BGA
[19:54] <Upu> and the PCB's tend to keep themselves warm
[19:54] <Upu> I use surface mount stuff all the time
[19:54] <Amadiro> Upu, I don't need to, but I can do more if I can
[19:54] <Upu> Have a read of this : http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=353
[19:56] <Amadiro> Upu, well, atmegas are nice (I've done a lot with them), but they're fairly limiting if you want to do more complicated things like course prediction & correction, image-/video- processing/streaming etc, so I was looking to either use something ppc or ARM based
[19:57] <Upu> indeed but we tend to do the course prediction on the ground
[19:57] <Upu> we have the live predictor
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[19:57] <Amadiro> Upu, and then you do remote-control?
[19:57] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/
[19:57] <Upu> no we don't have control over the balloons tracjectory
[19:57] <Upu> trajectory even
[19:58] <Amadiro> Upu, well, I'd definitely want real-time measurements from accelerometers/gyros to go into my calculations and then do corrections based on that
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[20:09] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:10] <Upu> evening
[20:11] <Amadiro> Upu, the -70°C does seem pretty harsh, but I had the thought of having a mild exothermal chemical reaction going on in some pad connected to the PCB that would constantly keep the PCB at +30 or so
[20:11] <Amadiro> Similar to those hand-warmers that use a crystallization reaction
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[20:12] <Upu> nah you don't need handwarmers etc
[20:12] <Upu> as long as its insulated it will retain heat from the electronics, just use suitable batteries
[20:13] <Upu> and spec all the electronics with components that are rated to -40'C
[20:13] <Amadiro> Upu, at which height does GPS stop working, roughly?
[20:13] <Upu> 50km exactly
[20:13] <Upu> well the ones most people use anyway the uBlox6 modules
[20:14] <Amadiro> Ah, nice. I was expecting it to stop working under 10km or so
[20:14] <Upu> some stop at 18km
[20:14] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[20:15] <Amadiro> nice
[20:16] <Upu> reminds me ping costyn
[20:19] <clem_> Upu pm ok?
[20:19] <Upu> sure
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[20:23] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[20:28] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[20:29] <Upu> in answer to your question last night yes the EURUS code transmits those coordinates, there is then a filter on the server which puts them back into decimal
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[20:41] <griffonbot> Received email: chrishillcox "Re: [UKHAS] Slovakia Launch Announcement - STS-1 (Saturday 8-SEP-2012)"
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> Upu, ah thanks!
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[21:53] <clem_> Good night everyone!
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 28 2012