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[04:43] <grog> i wanna launch a balloon that launches a rocket when it peaks. that would be awesome.
[04:43] <grog> or a balloon/UAV over the rockies, cuz i live right next to them
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[04:50] <Dan-K2VOL> grog indeed
[04:50] <Dan-K2VOL> That has been done a few times, I've not seen it done where it takes advantage of the very thin atmosphere though - you should be able to make it much fatter and less streamlined with weaker skin
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[04:51] <Dan-K2VOL> might need reaction control thrusters though
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[06:35] <nosebleedkt> hello everybody
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[06:44] <MrScienceMan> morning nosebleedkt
[06:44] <nosebleedkt> :)
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[06:47] <UpuWork> morning nosebleedkt :)
[06:48] <nosebleedkt> :):)
[06:49] <nosebleedkt> i cant talk to you from home, but at least i can talk from work
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[07:17] <nosebleedkt> Does anyone on the kickstarter project?
[07:17] <nosebleedkt> you suppose to create a project and people can fund you
[07:18] <nosebleedkt> and im thinking of doing this for any future missions
[07:18] <Dan-K2VOL> well, do remember that it takes a bit of work to convince people to give on kickstarter
[07:19] <Dan-K2VOL> and you don't get anything if they don't give you the full amount of your goal
[07:19] <zyp> nosebleedkt, what would people gain from funding you?
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[07:20] <nosebleedkt> zyp, the pictures I guess. Plus the want to help someone to such thing in their country
[07:20] <nosebleedkt> dunno :) I'm still trying to understand
[07:21] <nosebleedkt> Dan-K2VOL, yes I suppose I will get the money only after they are complete
[07:21] <Dan-K2VOL> you will need to think about how much it will cost you to spend the time to do all the convincing, (youtube videos, writing up exciting plans) vs. the cost of not getting any of the money
[07:22] <Dan-K2VOL> In our case, we opted to skip it for White Star cause we had a short timeline and had more skill at making than selling ideas
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[07:23] <Dan-K2VOL> but it's a great tool, and it may work wonders for you :-)
[07:24] <nosebleedkt> well, I just think of it so simple
[07:25] <nosebleedkt> 'Guys I wanna do that. Help me ! '
[07:25] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) that works in this chat room for knowledge anyway
[07:26] <nosebleedkt> Here in Greece my HAB mission became so popular that once a week I appear on TV
[07:26] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[07:26] <nosebleedkt> it's like 'in time of disaster, a young person shows that nothing is over'
[07:26] <nosebleedkt> they present me like that in the media
[07:26] <nosebleedkt> :P
[07:26] <nosebleedkt> im shy
[07:26] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[07:27] <fsphil> the debt is not the only thing ballooning
[07:27] <nosebleedkt> I try to explain on air, that this thing is a hobbie in another countries. But they don't give me the time I want to say that.
[07:28] <staylo> I would have gone with an inflation joke
[07:28] <Dan-K2VOL> haha no, that's not sensational
[07:28] <daveake> Tell them you're pushing the envelope
[07:29] <nosebleedkt> yeah
[07:29] <nosebleedkt> and they put stupid titles on the subject
[07:29] <Dan-K2VOL> the TV news media has the same drive the world over to grab people's attention long enough to get to a commercial break, regardless of the butchering of reality (through editing) they have to accomplish.
[07:29] <nosebleedkt> like 'the first greek in space'
[07:29] <fsphil> the media does that
[07:29] <nosebleedkt> and i feel ashamed sometimes
[07:29] <nosebleedkt> but lately i interrupt them and make things clear
[07:30] <Dan-K2VOL> good!
[07:30] <fsphil> yea, don't let them take advantage of you
[07:30] <nosebleedkt> yes
[07:30] <nosebleedkt> at first i was like a scared cat
[07:30] <nosebleedkt> now im cool with TV and start talking my own thing
[07:31] <nosebleedkt> i want to say on air, 'stfu you jokers'
[07:31] <nosebleedkt> but i cant
[07:31] <Dan-K2VOL> if you can, put a mention in for supporting open science publishing, that makes a lot of our tools possible
[07:32] <nosebleedkt> yes, on the exhibition i was telling about CUSF
[07:32] <Dan-K2VOL> and I'm currently struggling to learn very advanced balloon techniques because of the copyright covering most academic papers (and french government reports)
[07:32] <nosebleedkt> and presented the 3d trajectories
[07:32] <nosebleedkt> take a look at my pictures: http://500px.com/KostasLinuxeas
[07:33] <nosebleedkt> zoomed and cleared from overexposure
[07:35] <Dan-K2VOL> nice (did you know that the weather data comes from the US NOAA
[07:35] <Dan-K2VOL> for CUSF trajectories
[07:36] <Dan-K2VOL> more governments need to release science data freely (the US could do more too)
[07:37] <fsphil> I think the UK Met release some of their data now
[07:37] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, I read that they're requiring new science research funded by the govt to have open access results, which is great
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[08:17] <costyn> nosebleedkt: those pics on 500px.com are amazing
[08:18] <costyn> I wonder if it would be possible to remove more haze
[08:19] <costyn> nosebleedkt: sad that most of the comments are people begging you to view their own pics
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[08:23] <nosebleedkt> yeah lol
[08:24] <nosebleedkt> i can more haze which reveals more details
[08:24] <nosebleedkt> but i dont want to get far away from the original pic
[08:24] <anerDev> Hi
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[08:28] <x-f> nosebleedkt, look at space pics from Hubble etc, they're far from natural colors :)
[08:28] <anerDev> How are u ?
[08:29] <nosebleedkt> x-f lol
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[08:37] <costyn> anerDev: hi
[08:38] <costyn> anerDev: have you made further plans on which components you are going to use
[08:38] <costyn> ?
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[09:01] <anerDev> Now no, bug next week I will buy tre componente
[09:01] <anerDev> Components
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[09:41] <x-f> anybody got a pic from a HAB that has a cosmic ray in it? i know i've seen some, but can't find any now
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[09:53] <kokey> should start making people think that lens flares are cosmic rays
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[09:58] <daveake> Shouldn't be difficult. Many think they are satellite reflections or UFOs
[10:02] <DrLuke> the goverment puts something in the air!!!
[10:03] <kokey> it's only the chemtrails that make you think that
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[10:08] <staylo> http://pigeonsnest.co.uk/stuff/nasa-fakes-moon-landing.html
[10:09] <fsphil> we should do a "UKSA fakes moon landing" story
[10:13] <kokey> those launch photos are fake, you can see it in the shadows
[10:13] <jgrahamc> Hey UpuWork where do you want my slides for Saturday sent?
[10:14] <SamSilver> bugger! new use for He > http://www.gizmag.com/hgst-helium-filled-sealed-hard-drive/24190/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=e307576584-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
[10:14] <jgrahamc> Or perhaps that's Upu
[10:16] <eroomde> UpuOnAJolly
[10:16] <daveake> UpuDahnSaaf
[10:16] <fsphil> UpuUpuAndAway
[10:17] <eroomde> UpuOhLookThereAreWholeWhiskeyShopsInLondonSeeYouInThreeDays
[10:17] <daveake> in his beautiful balloon
[10:17] <DrLuke> they should finally find stable atoms consisting out of an electron and a positron
[10:17] <DrLuke> it would make for the lightest gas ever
[10:18] <fsphil> are you positive?
[10:18] <staylo> stop being so negative, it's not as attractive as you think
[10:18] <fsphil> I don't like the direction this is flowing
[10:19] <daveake> Guilty as charged
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[10:20] <WillDuckworth> groan
[10:21] <DrLuke> you guys
[10:23] <eroomde> UPS are good
[10:23] <eroomde> verging on magic
[10:23] <DrLuke> really? I heard they're awful
[10:23] <eroomde> i ordered online at 10.24 a pickup between 10.30 and 5pm
[10:23] <eroomde> a big ups lorry appeared at 10.33
[10:24] <cuddykid> UPS are awesome
[10:24] <russss> hah
[10:24] <daveake> Well ... much as I like them, they just started charging extra to deliver to "out of the way" places in the USA.
[10:24] <daveake> I don't class a city in Ohio as "out of the way", but they do, and that's ex extra £15 please
[10:25] <cuddykid> ouch
[10:25] <eroomde> flyover country
[10:25] <eroomde> need to send armed escorts along with the deliver van
[10:25] <daveake> You're thinking of Bradford
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[10:31] <DrLuke> damn
[10:31] <DrLuke> suddenly it's all cold here
[10:31] <DrLuke> it's as if the summer ended with the flick of a switch
[10:31] <fsphil> ghosts
[10:31] <DrLuke> atleast my solder paste won't go bad in the mail then
[10:32] <fsphil> it's got very cold at night here quite suddenly. there was some ice on the car a few nights ago
[10:32] <DrLuke> and my mom always opens my window in the evening
[10:32] <DrLuke> and I don't notice it
[10:32] <DrLuke> now I have a cold and sore throat
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> :'(
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> I need to get my bedroom properly insulated.
[10:34] <DrLuke> oh well
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[10:36] <fsphil> I've a bit of a cold myself, just hope it's gone before saturday
[10:37] <daveake> I'll keep my distance during your talk then :)
[10:38] <fsphil> muhaha
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[11:06] <DrLuke> oh god it's so cold and I don't have any cosy jacket :(
[11:09] <Hix> DrLuke: dunno if you are in the UK but these are very very good, from my experience of being in one up some evil cold mountains :) http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16341&category_id=300
[11:09] <jgrahamc> Yes, it is getting cold. I bike 4 miles along the Thames every day and it's definitely getting to 'another layer' time.
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[11:10] <DrLuke> Hix: I meant more something like a hoodie-jacket-ish
[11:10] <eroomde> or sprint on the bike
[11:11] <costyn> Hix: those sleeping bags in jacket form look so silly though
[11:11] <eroomde> as long as my hands and feet are warm i'm usually ok on a bike
[11:11] <eroomde> provided i'm giving it some
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[11:11] <Hix> costyn: trust me when your eyelashes and around your mouth are encrusted in rime you don't care for how you look anymore :D
[11:12] <costyn> true true
[11:12] <eroomde> costyn: yeah those jackets are worth it when it is cold
[11:12] <Hix> Montane do some good cycling wear, light and warm, waterproof a lot of it too
[11:13] <eroomde> i have one which i rarely wear, but it was -28 when i was up in the article circle standing still staring up at the northern lights
[11:13] <eroomde> and you don't care how you look when it's that cold
[11:13] <DrLuke> let me tell you how much fun flying in a glider in 2800 meters is
[11:13] <Hix> a string vest made from nichrome wire?!?!
[11:13] <eroomde> most of the artic scientists teams wear a 'big red'
[11:13] <DrLuke> especially when you only wear shorts and t-shirt
[11:14] <eroomde> which is the canada goose expedition parka
[11:14] <eroomde> hopeless pos bot
[11:14] <Hix> http://www.fjallraven.com/press/press-releases/2011/product-news-fallwinter-2011/polar-parka/
[11:15] <MrScienceMan> DrLuke: you obviously need a snuggie
[11:15] <MrScienceMan> http://pwwwblog.ibeatyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/snuggie-man.jpg
[11:15] <MrScienceMan> look at how happy that guy is
[11:15] <Hix> DrLuke: gets nippy at 2000m plus :D
[11:15] <DrLuke> haha
[11:15] <Hix> 4800m is nippy
[11:15] <eroomde> they're like 1k euros
[11:16] <eroomde> but completely worth it if you have to live and work in the cold
[11:16] <UpuWork> Hi jgrahamc you can mail them to me sorry been out onsite
[11:16] <jgrahamc> Not to worry UpuWork.
[11:16] <jgrahamc> I will email
[11:16] <jgrahamc> I think we chatted about this before, but is PowerPoint what you want?
[11:16] <UpuWork> yep just so its in place for the morning , I'll supply a pointer / thing to make slides go on
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[11:17] <jgrahamc> Will I be able to see the 'presenter view'?
[11:17] <eroomde> 'onsite'
[11:17] <eroomde> lol
[11:17] <UpuWork> hmm probably not
[11:18] <UpuWork> we can sort something out on the mgornin
[11:18] <Hix> mgornin is that an fsphilism
[11:18] <UpuWork> well yes eroomde I'm sat in a server room in deepest darkest Bradford about to replace a firewall
[11:18] <eroomde> oh i thought you were in london
[11:18] <daveake> UpuWork Presumably as I shared my slideshow with you, you've got all you need from me?
[11:18] <UpuWork> I do daveake
[11:19] <eroomde> misunderstood your whisky talk this morning
[11:19] <UpuWork> no :)
[11:19] <daveake> Cool just need to sort out the demo with fsphil
[11:19] <daveake> I think he's got that sorted anyway :)
[11:19] <UpuWork> I was just noting we are 3 mins walk from a pub that serves over 150 Whiskys
[11:20] <daveake> 3mins there
[11:20] <UpuWork> Whiskies ?
[11:20] <daveake> >3 mins back
[11:20] <UpuWork> Whiskers ?
[11:20] <fsphil> I got swift sending images last night
[11:20] <eroomde> i thought they sent them slowly
[11:20] <UpuWork> Swift is a silly name as it does nothing particularly swiftly
[11:20] <daveake> fsphil For decoding are you brining a laptop? Or will you use Upu's presentation one?
[11:20] <fsphil> yea it's still sending it..... ;)
[11:21] <fsphil> I'll have a laptop, but either is an option
[11:21] <UpuWork> reminds me
[11:21] <daveake> receiver?
[11:21] <UpuWork> I need to get VirtualAudio cable on here
[11:21] <fsphil> it needs a newer dl-fldigi than UpuWork probably has though
[11:21] <fsphil> I'll have the funcube dongle
[11:21] <daveake> ok
[11:21] <fsphil> which reminds me, it's in the attic
[11:21] <UpuWork> I have the latest one unless you've compiled a new one
[11:21] <jgrahamc> On its way to you UpuWork
[11:21] <daveake> I can bring a receiver, audio cable, Pi tracker with webcam, all just in case
[11:22] <UpuWork> thanks John
[11:22] <fsphil> annoyingly I discovered a flaw after the last release UpuWork
[11:22] <fsphil> so there was a late change
[11:22] <UpuWork> I have a RTL +HABamp, antenna, payload as well
[11:22] <UpuWork> tell you something no one is going to be able to lock a car round there
[11:22] <fsphil> lol
[11:22] <daveake> lol
[11:23] <fsphil> I'll be lucky if I get through airport security
[11:23] <mattbrejza> btw did anyone intend on bringing a little wooden judges/audioneer hammer for the general discussion part?
[11:23] <Randomskk> "little"?
[11:23] <daveake> I can bring a catapult
[11:23] <UpuWork> yeah Jcoxon is bringing one
[11:23] <UpuWork> big STFU mallet
[11:24] <Randomskk> I was thinking of bringing something along the lines of ramona's hammer in scott pilgrim
[11:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "[UKHAS] Remote tracking of payloads"
[11:24] <mattbrejza> good to see its sorted
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[11:25] <UpuWork> ok back soon got to go kick people out
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[11:34] <craag> Thanks all for the comments on the CRAAG1 pico yesterday. I'm now using 0.5mm nylon cord (which has cut off a couple of grams), and the wires are all bent back at the ends to eliminate any chance of scratching.
[11:34] <Randomskk> nice
[11:34] <Randomskk> good luck!
[11:34] <craag> I'll bring it along this weekend for further criticism.
[11:34] <craag> Cheers!
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[11:38] <costyn> if winds are favorable next launch, might be able to use this to fill and prep : http://revspace.org/spoorlaan/non-space/grote-loods.jpg and launch from here http://revspace.org/spoorlaan/grote-leegte-2.jpg
[11:39] Action: costyn crosses fingers
[11:40] <griffonbot> Received email: John Hopkins "Re: [UKHAS] Remote tracking of payloads"
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[11:44] <Hix> for those of a photographical persuasion http://tpoty.wordpress.com
[11:47] <kokey> remember, a bunch of tube lines have closures on saturday
[11:48] <fsphil> !
[11:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Remote tracking of payloads"
[11:48] <kokey> charing cross branch of the northern line down
[11:48] <kokey> most of the metropolitan line is down
[11:49] <kokey> the rest of the closures are either far out of town or only on sunday
[11:51] <Randomskk> there was a really fun closure last UKHAS too
[11:51] <Randomskk> it seems we are great at picking days with important closures
[11:51] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:52] <fsphil> the station right next to the site was closed
[11:52] <Randomskk> yes
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[11:58] <fsphil> I might just take the bus
[11:58] <jonsowman> are you coming into Paddington fsphil
[11:58] <jonsowman> ?
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[12:00] <fsphil> I'm heading to St Pancras tomorrow, then off to the hotel
[12:00] <russss> hmm I was going to propose a pub for afterwards
[12:00] <jonsowman> ah cool
[12:00] <Randomskk> russss: which pub?
[12:01] <Randomskk> there are definitely people up for a pub afterwards
[12:01] <fsphil> opted against the early morning train journey this time
[12:01] <jonsowman> fsphil: don't blame you
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[12:02] <russss> there are lots of good pubs around there but it's a fine balance trying to find one which won't be massively packed on a Saturday night
[12:02] <russss> I'm thinking perhaps this one http://www.harveys.org.uk/pubs-tenancies/find-our-beer/the-royal-oak-2
[12:06] <eroomde> russss / Randomskk I think there is already something on an afterparty pub/food plan
[12:06] <russss> aha ok
[12:06] <russss> I didn't see anything
[12:06] <eroomde> and yes i think it might be RO actually :)
[12:06] <daveake> Just so long as we're on pub time and not ISH time
[12:06] <eroomde> somewhere walkable
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[12:11] <Hix> is there space on saturday?
[12:12] <Hix> "RELIVE the pioneering spirit of Columbus and Raleigh by using Apple's new maps app to get around"
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[12:14] <eroomde> space where?
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[12:15] <eroomde> russss: i'm not sure if it's a public plan. i just remember james mentioning it when we were having drinks near borough last week. drinks in borough seems to have been a pattern a lot in my life recently
[12:16] <Hix> conf. thought it was last week but seems though it's full / sold out?
[12:16] <eroomde> lotsof friends in E>=1 and lots of friends in brixton/balham
[12:16] <eroomde> so borough is a good sport to meet
[12:16] <Randomskk> james said "Afterwards will be some sort of pub trip (it will happen this time!)."
[12:16] <Randomskk> :P
[12:16] <Randomskk> (in the original email)
[12:16] <eroomde> Hix: iirc james sent an email out recently asking if anyone can;t come because there is a waiting list
[12:17] <daveake> Hiz Ask jcoxon. I think a couple of people can't make it but I suspect there's a waiting list anyway
[12:17] <Hix> mmm that's what I thought
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[12:17] <daveake> Hix even ^^
[12:17] <Hix> i understood :D
[12:17] <Hix> cheers
[12:17] <daveake> well done :)
[12:18] <eroomde> exciting that we completely sell out for 50 attendees
[12:18] <eroomde> i have to get over this urge of sounding like an old man
[12:19] <eroomde> but it wasn't that long ago that james or I would ring each other up saying: "there are THIRTY!!! people in the irc channel? who would have ever thought!?!?'
[12:19] <jonsowman> lol
[12:21] <WillDuckworth> who indeed
[12:21] <UpuWork> 130 is the new 30
[12:22] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
[12:22] <eroomde> totally
[12:22] <eroomde> no advertising ever done, other than just flying stuff
[12:22] <eroomde> and now there's a waiting list for a conference in london
[12:23] <eroomde> it's enough to make a guy emotional
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[12:23] <daveake> If you break down we'll send you to rehab
[12:24] <Randomskk> rehab was the original name for habitat
[12:24] <daveake> :)
[12:24] <eroomde> rehab was the working name for nova 2!!
[12:24] <Randomskk> haha
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[12:24] <Randomskk> what hasn't nova done
[12:24] <eroomde> quite
[12:24] <eroomde> sstv
[12:25] <Randomskk> meh cusf have done sstv I guess
[12:25] <Randomskk> via squirrel
[12:27] <eroomde> oh yeah indeed
[12:27] <eroomde> hmm
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[12:28] <eroomde> hasn't launched a rockoon
[12:29] <Randomskk> that's true
[12:29] <Randomskk> we need to get on that
[12:29] <Randomskk> turns out it's hard or something
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[12:29] <Randomskk> unless you're iain
[12:30] <eroomde> Randomskk: my mdp-hdmi adaptor arrived todfay
[12:30] <eroomde> it's v good
[12:30] <eroomde> works fine, carried audio
[12:30] <Randomskk> cool
[12:30] <eroomde> i think it's hard even if you're iain
[12:30] <Randomskk> hmm where the heck is mine
[12:30] <Hix> I prefer the word Brocket, but then again you'd never get insurance for a brocket would you?
[12:30] <Randomskk> mine should be here yesterday ideally
[12:30] <eroomde> well, make yours 1080p anyway bwecause u can borrow mine as a backup
[12:31] <eroomde> is my point
[12:31] <Randomskk> habitat presentation is a google presentation doc thing
[12:31] <Randomskk> keynote is still terrible if you have multiple people trying to edit one doc
[12:31] <eroomde> with choice background pictures again?
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[12:31] <Randomskk> hmm less choice background pictures atm
[12:31] <Randomskk> was tempted to find a load of images of habitats
[12:31] <Randomskk> but yea
[12:31] <Randomskk> slightly less distracting slides this time
[12:33] <Randomskk> mostly I hope it turns up before I go back to uni
[12:33] <daveake> I've done mine with the Google doc thing too. Easy enough to use.
[12:33] <Randomskk> really want it for outputting hdmi to a tv/projector from laptop via media server
[12:33] <Randomskk> daveake: it's fine and easy but the results are nothing like as nice as keynote
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[12:34] <daveake> OK not tried that
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[12:39] <eroomde> keynote is the one thing keeping me on osx
[12:41] <russss> omnigraffle
[12:43] <eroomde> something from The Thick Of It?
[12:43] <russss> it's a diagramming tool, which is awesome
[12:45] <eroomde> yeah diagramming tools are something i need too
[12:45] Action: nick_ heard about some very high altitude experiments this morning
[12:45] <eroomde> it's really hard finding something good on linux
[12:45] <eroomde> inkscape is a bit unweildy sometimes
[12:45] <eroomde> tikz/pgf is glorious but RSI inducing and i definitely have to be in the right mood
[12:45] <nick_> Although I guess one beyond where altitude from Earth makes no sense.
[12:45] <eroomde> ?
[12:46] <nick_> One experiment was an x ray camera to orbit near the sun
[12:46] <nick_> The other was AMS, which is on the ISS
[12:47] <nick_> It didn't completely convince me the ISS is a good thing, but it's probably the coolest thing the ISS does.
[12:47] <BrainDamage> eroomde: tried dia or ipe?
[12:47] <eroomde> what is that?
[12:47] <eroomde> dia i don;t like much
[12:47] <eroomde> not tried ipe tho
[12:47] <eroomde> i used dia for ums diagrams though
[12:47] <eroomde> so maybe it was the ums diagrams that tarnished it
[12:47] <costyn> lucidchart?
[12:48] <BrainDamage> ipe was specially made to integrate with latex
[12:48] <costyn> (for diagrams)
[12:48] <eroomde> i don;t mean ums diagram at all
[12:48] <eroomde> what do i mean
[12:48] <costyn> UML
[12:48] <eroomde> those silly diagrams you use to graphically represent object structures in OO programs
[12:48] <eroomde> thanks
[12:48] Action: costyn grins
[12:49] <nick_> eroomde: do you know why ESA would need an experiment 2 years before it launched?
[12:50] <eroomde> just before we start this conversation about beurocracy and ESA, know what you are getting yourself into
[12:50] <nick_> Is it just so the guys who built it can lose their funding before they get any data, or they really need to sit on it for ages?
[12:50] <eroomde> talking to me about ESA should come with a health warning
[12:50] <eroomde> the views about to be expressed are strong and may cause offense to some people
[12:50] <eroomde> proceed at your own risk
[12:51] <eroomde> want to carry?
[12:51] <eroomde> Yes | No
[12:51] <nick_> Do you know the procedure for what happens in those 2 years?
[12:51] <eroomde> no but I can guess
[12:51] <eroomde> what will happen is this
[12:52] <kokey> yeah they flog the details to their mates in asia so they can have the same expiriments launched before or at the same time
[12:53] <eroomde> a man called fabrice will have been told by a man called stephiano that a man called pable needs an action called Action #1574-32-4-5 (b) to be actioned by someone at estec called domenique who want s to be sure that his printer has enough paper to print the 4 copies of the proposal, 2 with appendices and 2 without and 3 identical copies on multiple floppy drives so that a man called emiliano can talk to a secretary called madaline about getting more c
[12:54] <nick_> Everyone needs more c...
[12:54] <WillDuckworth> he's lost it again
[12:55] <DrLuke> c probably stand for cucumbers
[12:55] <daveake> could be worse
[12:55] <gonzo_> lots of a/b/c's ano none of them doing any actual work. Same the world over
[12:55] <costyn> eroomde seems to have crashed
[12:55] <eroomde> and that they think this will take 2 months so let's put down 4 months because fabrice is always late as they know from FlappoMars Impact testing program in Turin that Bertoccio will probably siphon off some of the funding for his mistress and so they emiliano will add his own 2 months to the 4 months because it will take them that long for his line manager to get him a laptop to lend him for the conference he wants to speak at that weekend but of cour
[12:55] <costyn> ah... he's back
[12:55] <daveake> rebooted
[12:55] <jonsowman> can we reboot eroomde?
[12:56] <BrainDamage> holy bureaucracy clusterfuck robin
[12:56] <WillDuckworth> init 6
[12:56] <nick_> Crap, I have to flee after setting him off...
[12:56] <costyn> nick_: this is your fault yes
[12:56] <daveake> Light blue touch paper and retire
[12:56] <eroomde> and then fabricio will see that something is wrong because form 67859=5738 has not been filled in according to documented standard 235-65 (what iz zis LaTeX?)
[12:57] <gonzo_> you were given the option to proceede
[12:57] <eroomde> but no one will have budgetted to be able to fly to the meeting so then they will all be invited to sumbit contract change notices in to release some extra funding
[12:58] <gonzo_> general principal: for every person trying to do a useful job there are 20 who's job it is to stop them
[12:58] <costyn> hahaha
[12:58] Action: costyn is enjoying eroomde's rant immensely
[12:58] <eroomde> but the CCNs can take 4 months ot process to in the mean time they will be sent (after two months) a Authorisation To Proceed (herein ATP) which is something where they say 'go to the merting but we're not saying we can pay you back for the flights yet'
[12:58] <costyn> even though it's my tax money going to these monkeys :(
[12:58] <BrainDamage> it's useful to put any other work in perspective
[12:58] <costyn> eroomde: you're not making this up right? this is a true story you're retelling?
[12:58] <eroomde> but then someone at estec who used to work in ensuring all of the loos were supplied with loo roll but is now inexplicable in charge of something to do with rocket propulsion will question the legitimacy of the authorisation to proceed
[12:59] <eroomde> and so they will invent something called a Previsional Aithorisation To Proceed
[12:59] <eroomde> or PATP
[12:59] <eroomde> which is not quite not quite a contract
[12:59] <eroomde> whereas the ATP is just not-quite a contract
[13:00] <eroomde> and all of a sudden needing your experiment onyl 2 years in advance seems actually unusually good for esa, nick_
[13:00] <eroomde> costyn: no i am not
[13:00] <eroomde> i used to work on ExoMars
[13:00] <gonzo_> and C still has not got the paper for the printer that started all this off.
[13:01] <costyn> eroomde: is NASA this bad too?
[13:01] <eroomde> costyn: i have made all the actual names up (well most of them) but this is exactly the kind of thing that happens at eSA
[13:01] <eroomde> costyn: it's pretty bad too but i don;t think it's quite as bad
[13:01] <eroomde> it sepends which bit of nasa or esa really
[13:02] <costyn> I see
[13:02] <eroomde> but flagship things like exomars or james webb are clusterfucks
[13:02] <costyn> the projects which actually get anything done are less like this I guess
[13:02] <WillDuckworth> but more importantly ed - is your presentation finished and ready for its 30 mins?
[13:02] <BrainDamage> is there any sane part of esa then as far are you know?
[13:02] <eroomde> exomars was meant to launch and land a rover in 2008 iirc
[13:02] <eroomde> the best hope now is they might get an orbiter in 2018 if something can be scraped together
[13:02] <eroomde> you can see why I quit
[13:03] <eroomde> now I work in a company of 3 people and can make things
[13:03] <eroomde> and make a difference aswell as make things
[13:04] Action: costyn understands
[13:04] <costyn> bureaucracies suck
[13:04] <eroomde> i have an idea, i get several days a week to work on it, we fly it. i've done more in this job in 8 months than i would have got done in about 5-6 years at esa
[13:04] <Hix> I bet Roscosmos have a Dar or Nyet [sp] response to things
[13:04] <eroomde> Hix: well sort of
[13:04] <eroomde> but then everyone from roscosmos turns up with a 20-something blonde PA
[13:04] <eroomde> who translates
[13:05] <Hix> even better
[13:05] <eroomde> and definitely couches things more rosily than I imagine the slavic grunts would be if directly translated
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[13:05] Action: Hix googles CAD jobs at Roscosmos
[13:05] <Hix> :D
[13:05] <eroomde> you're a CADDER?
[13:05] <eroomde> CADder?
[13:06] <Hix> yeah
[13:06] <eroomde> i think REL are hiring
[13:06] <Hix> well CADMonkey is my preferrd title
[13:06] <Hix> REL?
[13:06] <eroomde> or looking to hire soon when phase 3 starts
[13:06] <eroomde> reaction engines ltd
[13:06] <eroomde> the company we do about 80% of our work for
[13:06] <Hix> ahh, thanks, will investigate
[13:06] <eroomde> the ones doing skylon
[13:07] <Hix> Assume they use Catia? Most space/ aero do?
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[13:07] <eroomde> not sure i'm afraid
[13:07] <eroomde> but one of their cad guys is popping over to westcott this afternoon so I'll him
[13:07] <eroomde> ask him*
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[13:08] <Hix> cool, thanks ed
[13:08] <eroomde> np
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[13:09] <Hix> that layout on google maps looks suspiciously like the former RAF Abingdon. I spent many air cadet camps there. great fun hooning around in chipmunks
[13:10] <eroomde> it's culham science park
[13:10] <eroomde> where the big fusion research reactors are
[13:10] <eroomde> and rel have their offices there
[13:10] <eroomde> and a wind tunnel
[13:11] <eroomde> and a test site for the precooler, which is an old jet engine strapped to the ground with an experiment precooler on the front
[13:11] <Hix> ah yes, to far east, got it now.
[13:11] <eroomde> it's a fun site
[13:11] <Hix> sounds better than Land rover air con ducts
[13:11] <Hix> *FUN*
[13:11] <eroomde> heh, the cad guy coming over this afternoon used to do cad for Jag/LR iirc
[13:12] <Hix> Most people in the Cad world have been subjected to them at some point
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[13:12] <Hix> right time to sneak out for lunch. bbl, let me know eroomde
[13:12] <eroomde> willdo
[13:13] <Hix> cheers
[13:13] <russss> I've been round those fusion reactors, they are fun
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> he he.
[13:16] Action: costyn is jealous
[13:16] <costyn> I want to see fusion reactors too
[13:17] <eroomde> i have not ever been inside
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> I want to see one where my gas boiler was.
[13:17] <eroomde> but i've had to work at the precooler test stand which is right under the power lines coming in
[13:17] <eroomde> and the air is full of cracking and humming
[13:17] <eroomde> it's very wierd
[13:17] <russss> http://www.flickr.com/photos/russss/sets/72157623975249687/
[13:18] <eroomde> apparently they can easily brink the national grid down by about 1Hz when they do a test
[13:18] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get his house intercooler built.
[13:18] <eroomde> and they get fined about £1m per second that they do so, or something astronomical like that
[13:18] <russss> yeah I think the incoming power requirement of JET is something like 3GW
[13:18] <daveake> I bet that hertz
[13:18] <russss> they have a building full of flywheels
[13:20] <russss> they have public open days (which are very good) - they're taking bookings for April 2013: http://www.ccfe.ac.uk/visits.aspx
[13:21] <eroomde> i might try and go along
[13:21] <eroomde> mick who now works for REL used to be a senior technician there. but i think he would sounds too much like me talking about esa if i were to ask him for a tour
[13:22] <russss> I don't know if they'll be operating then, though. They were shut down for maintenance when I went so we actually went into the reactor hall
[13:22] <russss> usually the 300-ton concrete door is shut
[13:22] <eroomde> i gues you don;t open such a thing unless you really need to
[13:23] <russss> this door: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russss/4623433339/in/set-72157623975249687/lightbox/
[13:24] <costyn> russss: why does it need to be so big and heavy? for if the torus goes apeshit?
[13:24] <russss> fusion produces lots of neutrons
[13:24] <russss> and in general neutrons are not healthy
[13:25] <eroomde> not sure if this link will work but
[13:25] <eroomde> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=culham+scienc+epark&hl=en&ll=51.661234,-1.229627&spn=0.000731,0.001061&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=11.678683,17.380371&t=h&hq=scienc+epark&hnear=Culham,+Oxfordshire,+United+Kingdom&fll=51.661234,-1.229627&fspn=0.000731,0.001061&z=20
[13:25] <russss> they're also a bit of an annoyance to shield against
[13:25] <eroomde> should be a zoomed in bit just northwest of the reactor building
[13:25] <costyn> russss: ah ok makes sense :)
[13:25] <eroomde> anyway, that shiny thing pointing to the north east is the precooler
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[13:26] <eroomde> and it's strapped to the intake of an old jet engine, which us underneath the little concrete shield which is there incase the engine has a whoopsie
[13:26] <eroomde> and then it's looking right down the exhause of the big steam noise dampner
[13:27] <eroomde> which turns the engine exhaust into steam
[13:27] <eroomde> which then rains back over the site
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> is it to actually test cooling?
[13:27] <eroomde> yes
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> doesn't the engine object to very cold air?
[13:27] <eroomde> not really
[13:28] <eroomde> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782
[13:28] <eroomde> article about it ^
[13:31] <eroomde> BrainDamage: ipe seems nice
[13:31] <eroomde> thanks for the tip
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[13:39] <eroomde> affectations that I like: not awarding first prize in a regular compeition if you think that the best entrant is not up to the standard of previous 1st prize winners
[13:39] <eroomde> they seem to do it a lot in music competitions
[13:40] <eroomde> you get some fireworksey finger merchant who one must begrudge is very good and probably best that year, but you don;t want them to go thinking they're asheknazy or sokolov
[13:40] <eroomde> more affectations i like later in the week
[13:46] <nick_> Wow
[13:46] <nick_> Just had a hard core fast data transfer chip talk from some guy at IBM
[13:48] <eroomde> the chip talked?
[13:48] <eroomde> or talk is a noun?
[13:49] <nick_> s/talk/presentation
[13:49] <eroomde> what kind of speeds?
[13:49] <nick_> 10s of Gbps
[13:49] <fsphil> how'd you hear him?
[13:50] <nick_> I have fast ears
[13:50] <eroomde> i faster over there, usually
[13:50] <eroomde> away from the fridge
[13:50] <eroomde> fast*
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[13:58] <Hix> Nice! http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/gallery/2012/sep/20/astronomy-photography
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[14:00] <daveake> Nice indeed. Saw those and some other entrants on the BBC site this morning - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19637073
[14:01] <Hix> the spaghetti nebula and the milky way over the lake were awesome
[14:01] <Hix> had me in awe anyhow
[14:01] <eroomde> watch this - it's very unusual for an audience at something as serious as the chopin compeition start cheering before the piece has finished. it's a pretty remarkable thing
[14:01] <eroomde> http://youtu.be/opoVkvHyA7o?t=8m41s
[14:05] <DrLuke> So, this is how my solder paste arrived today: http://i45.tinypic.com/5zjwnc.jpg
[14:05] <DrLuke> when I squeeze out a bit, it keeps expanding inside, pushing out more, and the consistency is more solid than liquidish
[14:05] <eroomde> yes
[14:05] <DrLuke> so it's most likely gone bad, is it?
[14:05] <eroomde> the syringes are a pain in the bum
[14:05] <DrLuke> oh I got a metal needle for it
[14:05] <eroomde> it is meant to be pretty solid
[14:06] <eroomde> and it's a pain to apply. you squeeze a bit and then there's a delay before anything happens and more comes out than you want
[14:06] <DrLuke> ah
[14:06] <Randomskk> DrLuke: that looks fine
[14:06] <Randomskk> it's just a huge pain.
[14:06] <BrainDamage> you're supposed to add counter suction, but good luck with that
[14:06] <eroomde> i use a tub
[14:06] <Randomskk> in future buy a tub of paste and a stencil
[14:06] <Randomskk> and yes, a tub of solder paste is extraordinarily expensive
[14:06] <eroomde> and a metal teaspoon to take a teasponns worth out
[14:07] <eroomde> then run it in roughly a line onto the stencil
[14:07] <eroomde> then smear across with a metal spantula/wallpeper scraper tool
[14:07] <DrLuke> hmm
[14:07] <BrainDamage> dx actually sells small solder paste amounts, I buought one and found it surprisingly ok
[14:07] <DrLuke> it will be quite tough to dose mlf parts that way
[14:07] <eroomde> but you can see why i recommend stainless steel solder stencils right. it's not easy flow stuff and you have to apply a bit of force
[14:07] <DrLuke> won't it go bad during the time it takes to arrive?
[14:08] <eroomde> it'll be fine if it's been shipped overnight
[14:08] <eroomde> just keep it in the fridge
[14:08] <DrLuke> it took 6 days to arrive, lol
[14:08] <BrainDamage> I'd recommend a ziplock bag too
[14:08] <eroomde> yes that too
[14:08] <DrLuke> immediately squeezed out a bit on a pcb to test it and then immediately into the fridge
[14:08] <DrLuke> why?
[14:08] <eroomde> i agree it would be tought to apply directly onto the pads of an mlf
[14:09] <Randomskk> hard to do that with a syringe too
[14:09] <eroomde> to stop it drying out
[14:09] <DrLuke> oh
[14:09] <BrainDamage> 2 reasons: it's air that reacts with the paste and spoils it, and to avoid contaminating your fridge
[14:10] <BrainDamage> like paste residues stuck on the surface of the syringe, and touching your fridge stuff
[14:10] <DrLuke> true
[14:10] <eroomde> if we're on the subject of contamination, here is something to avoid
[14:10] <eroomde> putting paste all over a stencil
[14:11] <eroomde> then putting the stencil paste-side down onto someone's mug
[14:11] <eroomde> then removing it a few seconds later
[14:11] <eroomde> then letting that person take a drink out of the mug
[14:11] <DrLuke> eww
[14:11] <eroomde> then letting that person complain of a burning sensation in their throat
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> oops
[14:12] <eroomde> let's say hypothetically the victim of this crime is called eroomde
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQF1zeV9BNA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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[14:13] <Hix> I love the random way the toolbars on the GUI of Catia randomly just move around, leaving you searching for them for a few seconds longer than is comfortable....
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> tin whisker lecture
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> recommended
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[14:15] <eroomde> lead-free
[14:15] <eroomde> who cares
[14:16] <eroomde> don't use that
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> lead free does not mean it may whisker. it needs tin for that.
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> (to quote above lecture)
[14:17] <eroomde> oh. i got as far as him saying that this was about lead-free and turned off
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> fun incidences of tin whiskers not on the PCB affecting the PCB
[14:18] <zyp> eroomde, the problem with stainless stencils is the price
[14:18] <eroomde> if £20 is a problem for you then it's a problem for you
[14:18] <eroomde> it's a no-brainer for me
[14:19] <zyp> who are doing stainless stencils for £20?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> shrdlu over on ##electronics does poly stencils
[14:19] <BrainDamage> smtstencils.co.uk is his site
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[14:19] <SP9UOB> hi. Who can approve flight doc ?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:20] <zyp> I mean, I'd obviously choose stainless stencils at that price, but I haven't found anyone that come close to the price you can get on kapton/mylar stencils
[14:20] <eroomde> zyp: well, usually we get them free with our prototyper
[14:21] <zyp> eroomde, and what's the price of the prototypes then? :)
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> they come with free jet engines.
[14:22] <eroomde> zyp: depends! but £80 for 5 x 80mm x 60mm double sided with soldermask on 5wd lead, which was the last thing i did
[14:22] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: s/with free/free with/ :P
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[14:23] <zyp> eroomde, interesting, which company is this?
[14:23] <BrainDamage> DrLuke: is this for a professional board or hobby?
[14:23] <eroomde> pcb-pool
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[14:24] <DrLuke> braindamage: commercial, yes
[14:24] <anerDev> hi men !
[14:24] <zyp> ah
[14:24] <DrLuke> hi
[14:24] <eroomde> http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/order_productconfiguration_js.html
[14:24] <BrainDamage> then get the expensive tub of solder paste
[14:24] <costyn> SP9UOB: put it in a paste-bin and then paste the link here
[14:24] <DrLuke> I will actually get a stencil with the next board
[14:25] <DrLuke> I just didn't get one for this one as it was just a first prototype
[14:25] <costyn> SP9UOB: someone from the habitat team can then import it into the tracker
[14:25] <Randomskk> you don't actually pastebin it any more
[14:26] <Randomskk> read http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload
[14:26] <Randomskk> though I'm not sure who you're talking to either
[14:26] <Randomskk> oh!
[14:26] <Randomskk> SP9UOB: I can approve flight docs. I just need the document ID.
[14:26] <Randomskk> also I can't do it until later this evening because I'm at work but DanielRichman might be able to sooner.
[14:26] <DanielRichman> ^^ yup
[14:26] <costyn> Randomskk: sorry, this was procedure as I knew it, but you guys keep making it better! :)
[14:27] <Randomskk> :P
[14:27] <Hix> why do they drop the L in solder and replace it with a d in the US? when speaking that is..
[14:27] <costyn> Randomskk: looks very nice now
[14:28] <costyn> Hix: i've often wodderd that myself
[14:28] <Hix> :D
[14:29] <DanielRichman> SP9UOB: it looks like you have created a payload configuration doc; this is sufficient for testing and you should be able ot see it in on the map if you start receiving it
[14:29] <DanielRichman> if you're going to fly, then create a flight document. These need to be approved, payload configuration documents for testing do not
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[14:30] <Randomskk> costyn: DanielRichman and danielsaul are to thank for it looking very nice :P
[14:30] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/TrKna.jpg
[14:31] <eroomde> ironney
[14:31] <costyn> Hix: good god... someone took a picture of a written test, then posted it to a website, then someone took a picture of the jpg with their cameraphone and uploaded that to the web, to get this...
[14:32] <nick_> Oof, people spend so much money on chip development
[14:32] <eroomde> and space missions
[14:33] <nick_> "It's a good job our chips worked, 65nm stuff is super expensive.... Now our plans are to make another chip"
[14:33] <costyn> Hix: searching for sodder gives some various ideas for the origin, but nothing definite
[14:34] <eroomde> i do wish americans would say solder properly
[14:35] <eroomde> if only they knew what soddering was, they would probably learn to say it properly
[14:35] <eroomde> as for a soddering iron
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[14:35] <eroomde> that'd ruin your day
[14:36] <daveake> I daren't even wonder what a sodder sucker is
[14:36] <eroomde> or sodder paste
[14:36] <Randomskk> eww.
[14:36] <eroomde> santorum comes to mind
[14:37] <Laurenceb> http://zeptobars.ru/en/
[14:37] <Hix> "I need some more sodder for my soddering iron" "Sod off."
[14:37] <eroomde> i shall say that to the next person who asks more for sodder
[14:38] <costyn> haha
[14:39] <Hix> I'm sick of sodders soddering, sodding sod off
[14:41] <eroomde> except the last person who asked for some was one of those highly easily offended american girls from somewhere in the south who was a post-doc at cambridge and kept treating every fart or sip of beer or instance of someone saying 'golly' (which i do a lot) as some kind of cherishable european experience
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[14:41] <eroomde> you had to be nice to her really
[14:41] <eroomde> much as it pained me
[14:41] <Hix> she farted whilst sipping beer?
[14:41] <daveake> My kinda gal
[14:41] <eroomde> other people
[14:42] <Hix> I'm going to drop a cherishable european experience in the office
[14:42] <eroomde> but a fart was about the most schocking thing you could conceive of. she would have to run out of the room blushing if she heard one
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[14:43] <Hix> how did she handle ball scratching on hot days then?
[14:43] <eroomde> i had my own office
[14:43] <eroomde> so she was saved
[14:44] <Hix> ball scratching is a very good meeting shortener
[14:44] <eroomde> apparently i do it all the time without noticing
[14:44] <Hix> it's perfectly natural so it's sub concious, instinctual
[14:45] <eroomde> watching all the videos from our rocket launch in scotland, all i heard from everyone else is 'ed- we can't put this on thr web because you're scratching your balls. ... Ed!.... Ed!!... f*ing hell Ed!'
[14:45] <eroomde> etc
[14:45] <eroomde> i'll try not to do it at the conference
[14:45] <WillDuckworth> :D
[14:46] <Hix> if you conciously try you'll do it more
[14:46] <Hix> *consciously
[14:46] <eroomde> infact i have solved this problem already
[14:46] <Hix> sodder paste
[14:46] <eroomde> bottle of water in one hand, laser clickermajigger in the other
[14:47] <Hix> use the hand with the lasermajigger not your bottle hand
[14:47] <eroomde> right, i shall do slides this evening
[14:47] <eroomde> this year i will be organised
[14:47] <Hix> where will conf be streaming?
[14:47] <eroomde> the internet
[14:47] <Hix> cool, ill look there
[14:48] <BrainDamage> build a concealed ball remote controlled scratching device
[14:48] <eroomde> UpuWork: ^
[14:48] <BrainDamage> ops word order
[14:48] <daveake> Now I know where to hide the secret webcam for the SSTV demo
[14:48] <Hix> I want a/c undercrackers they'd be neat as
[15:03] <UpuWork> hi Hix
[15:03] <UpuWork> I think James will be sending a mail out
[15:03] <UpuWork> but...
[15:04] <Hix> hi upupandaway
[15:04] <UpuWork> http://www.batc.tv/streams/ukhas
[15:04] <Hix> ta muchly
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[15:15] <WillDuckworth> anyone else getting the underground to London Bridge and trundling in?
[15:15] <SP9UOB> All: Who can approve flight doc ?
[15:16] <DanielRichman> 14:29 < DanielRichman> SP9UOB: it looks like you have created a payload configuration doc; this is sufficient for testing and you should be able ot see it in on the map if you start receiving it
[15:16] <DanielRichman> 14:29 < DanielRichman> if you're going to fly, then create a flight document. These need to be approved, payload configuration documents for testing do not
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[15:31] <Hix> eroomde: Did you see the guy from REL?
[15:32] <eroomde> not yet
[15:32] <eroomde> it's often at home time as westcott is on the way home for him
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[15:41] <Hix> ok
[15:49] Nick change: Hix -> Hix_
[15:49] <Hix_> making good my ezcape see you from the other side
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[16:02] <SP9UOB> costyn: i already fill the form at: http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[16:03] <SP9UOB> DanielRichman: I already filled form at: http://habitat.habhub.
[16:03] <SP9UOB> org/genpayload/
[16:04] <SP9UOB> DanielRichman: how to get approved ?
[16:07] <DanielRichman> SP9UOB: what is the name of your payload
[16:09] <SP9UOB> CP19
[16:10] <SP9UOB> Payload: SR0FLY-FUNKA
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[16:10] <eroomde> catchy
[16:10] <SP9UOB> 500mW beacon at 28.493 MHz USB - should be received in UK
[16:10] <eroomde> oh nice
[16:10] <eroomde> that is fun
[16:12] <DanielRichman> SP9UOB: I have approved it
[16:12] <SP9UOB> DanielRichman: Thank You
[16:12] <eroomde> i imagine you do that with a thumbs up or thumbs down
[16:12] <eroomde> like a roman emperor deciding the outcome of a gladiator match
[16:13] <Randomskk> yes it's the new gesture detection webcam system
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[16:26] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] conference streaming."
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[16:27] <Laurenceb> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.264905,-2.954078&spn=0.009715,0.01929&t=h&z=16&layer=t
[16:27] <Laurenceb> insane
[16:27] <Laurenceb> that place has its own massive substation
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[16:30] <grog> why insane
[16:30] <grog> most neighborhoods have two
[16:30] <grog> and that looks like an industrial complex
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[16:31] <grog> cmon zeusbot
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[16:31] <Laurenceb> grog: its a centrifuge farm
[16:32] <grog> oh great. now im on another list :P
[16:33] <Laurenceb> lol
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[16:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Adrian Hicks "Re: [UKHAS] conference streaming."
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[16:44] <Hix> is it possible to "reverse compile" a hex file?
[16:44] <Hix> i.e to bring it back into C
[16:45] <DanielRichman> not really - you can disassemble (and get varying amounts of information back depending on how it was compiled)
[16:46] <DanielRichman> but decompilers for C generally suck (it's difficult)
[16:46] <DanielRichman> (to clarify disassembling: C compilation is in three steps; first the C is compiled into assembly language, which is then assembled, finally it is linked)
[16:46] <Hix> right ok. I was just wondering if you could read from say a PIC16F
[16:46] <DanielRichman> you can reverse the last two
[16:46] <Hix> right lost cause then, what I was thinking of
[16:47] <DanielRichman> yup so people that are good at programming in assembly might be able to interpret a disassembly and tell you what it does/write it out in something similar to the original C
[16:47] <Hix> was just a random thought for nosing around on embedded devices
[16:48] <DanielRichman> more common than you might think; people reverse engineer proprietary firmwares for various reasons
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[16:48] <Hix> but you'd have to be prety smart to do so.
[16:48] <Hix> So is that the kind of thing that the CHDK would have been done via?
[16:49] <eroomde> Hix: staurt on his way now
[16:49] <DanielRichman> I haven't learnt assembly do it so I don't know how difficult it is really, but you certainly need to put in a bit of effort to get good at it I think
[16:50] <DanielRichman> Hix: yeah without reading further into that's probably a reasonable assumption
[16:50] <Hix> eroomde, ok cool, be interesting to hear what's happening there
[16:50] <eroomde> i'll ask him what the cad packages are
[16:50] <eroomde> nd anything else if you want to know
[16:50] <Hix> I'm pretty sure it'll be Catia. Yeah, are they looking :D
[16:51] <eroomde> :)
[16:51] <eroomde> They may not be precisely right now but they're gearing up for phase 3
[16:51] <eroomde> where they will need a lot of good new people
[16:51] <eroomde> and that phase 2 -> 3 is happening now
[16:51] <Hix> hmm
[16:51] <eroomde> this being in terms of engine development
[16:52] <eroomde> phase 2 is showing the precooler, which is the really secret-sauce bit, works
[16:52] <Hix> DanielRichman, it would be pretty cool to be able to hack stuff like the CHDK does
[16:52] <eroomde> phase 3 is building a full-on sabre engine
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[16:52] <Hix> I'm assuming that even outside of the engine they have a lot of jigs and test eqpt that needs designing al the time
[16:53] <eroomde> yes totally
[16:54] <eroomde> lots of parallel tech development projects
[16:54] <Hix> would be interesting work
[16:55] <Hix> F1 was interesting but the pace of work was sometimes obscene, and the hours...... well.
[16:57] <eroomde> hmm, i think stuart did F1 too
[16:57] <eroomde> Stuart Webb?
[16:57] <eroomde> recognise the name at all?
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[16:59] <Hix> possibly, but having worked as a contractor for a good few years, I've worked with a fair few people. Sometimes you talk yourself in that you recognise a name :)
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[17:24] <eroomde> Hix: irritatingly i have to go home now in order to get to sains in order to get some dinner ingredients in order to be done by 8 when i'm meeting some freidns for drinks. the clock has caught up with me. i'll ask my colleague to ask staurt the qs
[17:26] <Hix> No worries, thanks. Don't forget the drinks from JS to drink while you prepare the pre-drinks meal :)
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[18:11] <Lunar_Lander__> evening
[18:18] <nigelvh> Morning
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander__> how's life?
[18:19] <nigelvh> On the whole, ok
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander__> mine too
[18:20] <nigelvh> Cricked my back yesterday, so I'm kinda hurting. But I'm working at home, so that's pleasant.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander__> :(
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander__> yeah
[18:20] <nigelvh> Got a massage later today, so that will be nice too.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander__> yeah
[18:20] <nigelvh> How's the payload coming?
[18:22] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] conference streaming."
[18:24] <Randomskk> eroomde: woo. my mini dp -> hdmi adapter also arrived today
[18:24] <Randomskk> and also works lovely including with sound
[18:24] <Randomskk> hurrah
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander__> nigelvh, tomorrow we want to look at that padding error
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander__> brb
[18:24] <Hix> right I'm done with self help, anyone got advice on makefile?
[18:24] <nigelvh> What's padding improperly?
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander__> the longitude, I am at 8.02°E and it gives 8.2°E
[18:25] <nigelvh> Ah
[18:25] <fsphil> didn't we go over this?
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander__> yes but we have to sit down to find the solution tomorrow
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander__> brb
[18:26] <Hix> or a recommendation for a C channel?
[18:27] <Hix> ahh ##C cunning
[18:28] <daveake> The answer is in the wiki, LL
[18:28] <fsphil> i c
[18:28] <Gadget-Mac> i2c
[18:29] <Gadget-Mac> Sorry couldn't resit
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[18:40] <Hix> Lunar_Lander__, isn't it %02u
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander__> back
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander__> that could be
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander__> daveake, thanks for the reminder
[18:52] <daveake> It's a very common error
[18:52] <daveake> very easy to fix
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander__> ok
[18:52] <daveake> no need for a discussion
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander__> ok
[18:53] <Hix> was it what i thought?
[18:53] <Hix> or was I on another planet?
[18:55] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-146-95-104.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] <Hix> ahh evening jcoxon been pointed to you about the conf, is there a waiting list?
[18:56] <Hix> is it mahoosive?
[18:57] G7PMO-Kev_Work (c26adc55@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] <jcoxon> hix, its got 2 people on it currently
[19:01] <Hix> could you ++me pls?
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[19:05] Nick change: aTRain_ -> [a]Train
[19:10] <natrium42> jcoxon: so conference is this saturday?
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[19:21] <daveake> natrium42 Yes
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[19:26] <natrium42> sweet
[19:29] <natrium42> daveake: will you be there?
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[19:30] <natrium42> SelfishMan never talks :(
[19:30] <Upu> he's going natrium42
[19:30] <Upu> Dan is coming across too
[19:30] <natrium42> oh yeah, he told me
[19:30] <Randomskk> http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com
[19:31] <Randomskk> this just keeps on going
[19:31] <natrium42> Randomskk: pfft
[19:31] <natrium42> player haters
[19:31] <daveake> I have a talk to do, so for technical reasons it's easier to go ;)
[19:31] <Randomskk> natrium42: look at them! they're terrible!
[19:31] <Randomskk> :3
[19:31] <Randomskk> I don't understand how apple OKd them
[19:31] <natrium42> daveake: looking forward to seeing you featured on the livecast :P
[19:31] <Randomskk> couldn't bare to use google for one moment longer I guess
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander__> hi Upu & natrium42
[19:31] <natrium42> can still use google maps in safari
[19:32] <natrium42> moin kevin
[19:32] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander__
[19:32] <MrScienceMan> http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
[19:33] <natrium42> oh, shuttle flyover tomorrow :D
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander__> yeah, Endeavour right?
[19:33] <daveake> Despite being in CA for 2 weeks in October, I'm going to miss the shuttle
[19:33] <natrium42> right
[19:34] <natrium42> daveake: where are you going to?
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[19:35] <Hix> Randomskk, "RELIVE the pioneering spirit of Columbus and Raleigh by using Apple's new maps app to get around"
[19:36] <daveake> RV tour LA --> SF -- Lassen --> Tahoe --> Yosemite --> Kings Canyon/Sequoia --> Joshua Tree --> Palm Springs --> LA
[19:36] <daveake> Hix - So that means not having a usable map?
[19:37] <daveake> So I get to miss it landing at LAX, and going from LAX thru LA, and the opening of the exhibit
[19:37] <daveake> Brilliant timing :p
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander__> so you are in CA only?
[19:37] <Hix> don't know, i'm not an apple fan boy. I saw it today and it made me chuckle loudly
[19:38] <daveake> LL Y
[19:38] <natrium42> daveake: come to SF area :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander__> ah
[19:38] <daveake> I am ... we're in SF on the 10th
[19:38] <Hix> daveake, that's a mean itinerary
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[19:38] Action: Hix is jealus
[19:39] <Hix> oh christ, why cant i type
[19:39] <natrium42> Hix: and he missed the most important stop and that is SF :D
[19:39] <Hix> assume natrium42 is SF
[19:39] <daveake> should be fun. We did a similar route before but also did the Grand Canyon etc. That was a longer trip of cours
[19:39] <daveake> e
[19:39] <Hix> ha not just me then
[19:39] <Hix> typos are for winners
[19:40] <daveake> There was a clue in "<daveake> RV tour LA --> SF -- Lasse"
[19:40] <Randomskk> Hix: haha excellent
[19:40] <Hix> unless you code, they t y p e r e a l l y s l o w l y
[19:40] <Hix> and still bugger it up evidently
[19:40] <natrium42> daveake: fine :P
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander__> xD
[19:41] <Hix> I've worked out that beer is much better than learning C [in the short term]
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3j_Ou_7BGc
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[19:44] <daveake> Just beware of buffer overflows
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[19:45] <MrScienceMan> beer sometimes leads to overflows
[19:45] <Hix> I have a relief valve which is regularly serviced
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[19:57] <MrScienceMan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG
[19:57] <MrScienceMan> heh
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[19:59] <Hix> MrScienceMan, fnar
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[20:06] <SamSilver> nn
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[20:26] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: UKHAS Amateur Balloon Conference going on this Saturday, with White Star member Dan Bowen speaking! http://t.co/DegdcFIv #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/248880719844233216]
[20:29] <chalcy0n> w00t got my logilink (rtl-sdr) working under linux :)
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander__> I want to hit my head about how stupid those mandatory insurances are
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[22:01] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012 - 2 days to go"
[22:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Russ Garrett "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012 - 2 days to go"
[22:12] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012 - 2 days to go"
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[22:35] Nick change: bbjunkie_ -> bbjunkie
[22:46] Action: SpeedEvil sticks Oct 7 in diary. spacex to kiss
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> iss
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[22:47] <Lunar_Lander__> XD
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[22:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012 - 2 days to go"
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[23:11] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012 - 2 days to go"
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 21 2012