highaltitude.log.20120919

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[06:34] <costyn> morning
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[07:14] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
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[07:14] <eroomde> morning Dan-K2VOL
[07:14] <eroomde> where R U?
[07:15] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm still in New York City, I have taken to a nocturnal schedule doing solo research these days
[07:16] <eroomde> nocturnal in a way that maps to uk time?
[07:17] <Dan-K2VOL> ha, unfortunately about as opposite as you could be, I usually go to bed in about an hour, which works well if I'm trying to get an email out to europe
[07:18] <eroomde> can sleep during conference prep
[07:18] <eroomde> and wake up for your talk :)
[07:18] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll be arriving around 9 am BST friday
[07:18] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[07:18] <eroomde> heathrow?
[07:18] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[07:19] <eroomde> don't door what a poor chinese lady did the other day
[07:19] <Dan-K2VOL> oh?
[07:19] <eroomde> which is turn up at oxford bus station on a coach from heathrow and come up to me and say 'oxford circus?' pointing to a map
[07:19] <Dan-K2VOL> hahahaha
[07:19] <eroomde> poor thing
[07:20] <eroomde> i bought her a cup of tea and tried to break it to her that she was in completely the wrong city
[07:20] <Dan-K2VOL> ouch, I just looked it up
[07:20] <eroomde> yep
[07:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I like the term 'pedestrian scramble'
[07:22] <Dan-K2VOL> it sounds like the pedestrians will be given just a little head start before the cars are unleashed, and what then happens is the pedestrian scramble
[07:23] <eroomde> the trick is to cook them slowly
[07:23] <Dan-K2VOL> (from the oxford circus wiki article)
[07:23] <eroomde> and don;t add salt till the end
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[07:24] <Dan-K2VOL> mmm it is breakfast time isn't it
[07:25] <eroomde> for me yes
[07:38] <UpuWork> morning
[07:38] <Dan-K2VOL> mornign upu
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[07:48] <fsphil> how long is the flight over Dan-K2VOL?
[07:49] <Dan-K2VOL> depends on how near to crying babies you are
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[07:49] <fsphil> aah yes, good old relativity
[07:50] <fsphil> same effect that makes journeys home quicker
[07:51] <Dan-K2VOL> Hmm well, I depart at 22:00 local time here and land at 10:15 local time there, so it's 12 hours by my watch, so I guess that's 8 hours flight time? sounds like we need a good jet stream
[07:53] <fsphil> on the plus side you'll get a nice sunrise, which is at least 200% nicer looking at altitude
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[07:54] <costyn> fsphil: if you're awake at that time, actually they usually wake you up for breakfast at sunrise
[07:56] <fsphil> I saw an amazing sunset from the air once .. there where hills on the ground and mist between them
[07:57] <Dan-K2VOL> true!
[07:57] <Dan-K2VOL> heh for the first time I will be flying farther than one of my balloons
[07:58] <fsphil> hah
[07:58] <Dan-K2VOL> not by much though, this flight is only 150 miles longer than the Spirit of Knoxville IV
[07:59] <fsphil> where was that launched from?
[07:59] <Dan-K2VOL> Knoxville, Tennessee, the mid-south
[07:59] <Dan-K2VOL> probably would have made land if it was launched from the coast ;-)
[08:00] <Dan-K2VOL> landed about 200 miles west of ireland
[08:02] <fsphil> it might have drifted onto shore
[08:03] <Dan-K2VOL> ha quite possible, it may now be in the rubbish of a town landfill there! (dump? what is the term there)
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[08:09] <fsphil> landfill works
[08:11] <Dan-K2VOL> I have to say I'm more nervous about talking to the french scientists than I was when I called NASA and asked them to show me all their balloons
[08:12] <fsphil> aah so you're getting to visit them, nice
[08:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I just don't like being at the disadvantage of asking someone for a favor in their second language
[08:12] <Dan-K2VOL> but I am banking on old balloon scientists being similar the world round
[08:13] <Dan-K2VOL> - likely no one talks usually to them in any language about their greatest works, so they'll hopefully still be glad to chat
[08:13] <fsphil> hope so
[08:14] <Dan-K2VOL> I've found that most of the key EOLE scientists from the 1960s balloon research are still around
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[08:17] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with that, will have to do a bit of reading
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[08:20] <fsphil> yikes, some of them flew for more than a year
[08:20] <Dan-K2VOL> pretty nifty
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[08:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] HAB Amp"
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[08:23] <fsphil> nice
[08:23] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil, here's a nice writeup on their electronics https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8ayhq5p79587b0/1975%20Sitbon%20Platform%20location%20and%20data%20collection%20by%20satellite%20systems%20The%20EOLE%20experiment.pdf
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[08:26] <fsphil> thanks Dan-K2VOL, downloaded
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[08:40] <costyn> UpuWork: IMPORTANT : Please not the ordering options for this module :
[08:40] <costyn> UpuWork: there's an 'e' missing :)
[08:43] <UpuWork> ta
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[08:45] <daveake> eee by gum eeee's rite
[08:45] <fsphil> subliminal message, UpuWork doesn't want anyone ordering them :)
[08:45] <daveake> ^^ take your pick
[08:45] <fsphil> "Please not the ordering!"
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[08:48] <costyn> lol
[08:48] <costyn> Please, not the ordering! Make it stop
[08:48] <UpuWork> lol
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[08:49] <costyn> UpuWork: do you make all this stuff yourself?
[08:49] <UpuWork> yep
[08:50] <costyn> good lord, and you say you have a wife too? and a normal job?
[08:50] <UpuWork> yeah I know
[08:50] <costyn> what sorcery is this
[08:51] <costyn> :)
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[09:05] Action: Willienl thinks he have a spare room with sound proof door and some locks :)
[09:07] <fsphil> "HABlab -- Do Not Enter"
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[09:15] <Willienl> well a warning sign about possible noise levels above 90dB(A) won't work mosth girls accept it as well normal for music xD
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[09:29] <SamSilver> if i want to recieve APRS radio TX would I set my RX to NBFM or WBFM?
[09:29] <jonsowman> NB
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[09:30] <jonsowman> NB has around 25kHz bandwidth for the full channel, APRS bandwidth is far less than that
[09:30] <SamSilver> thanx jonsowman
[09:30] <jonsowman> WBFM is for like broadcast FM and things, which is more like 200kHz bandwidth
[09:36] <jonsowman> bbl
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[11:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement CRAAG1 Pico (24th/25th September)"
[11:53] <DrLuke> I wonder if that string tears with 120N of parallel force
[11:53] <craag> Ah
[11:53] <craag> I had forgotten about that restriction.
[11:54] <DrLuke> it's pretty important!
[11:54] <craag> Was only planning on using ~50cm of it though?
[11:54] <DrLuke> still
[11:54] <DrLuke> if a plane gets caught in it, it can cause serious problems
[11:54] <craag> Ok, I'll see if I can dig out something weaker (and lighter).
[11:54] <DrLuke> and your string looks pretty strong
[11:54] <craag> Thanks for letting me know now rather than on the day :P
[11:54] <DrLuke> no problem :)
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[11:55] <DrLuke> one more reason to create some sort of legal checklist for each country
[11:56] <mattbrejza> is that actually a legal requirment in the uk?
[11:56] <DrLuke> it's a requirement worldwide
[11:56] <DrLuke> as far as I know it's from the ICAO
[11:57] <craag> Yep, from UKHAS wiki: a force of less than 230 N is required to separate the suspended payload and parachute from the balloon.
[11:57] <mattbrejza> either way most people use the thin stuff you get from B&Q (or similar)
[11:57] <DrLuke> oh, was it 230N? sorry
[11:57] <costyn> DrLuke: I didn't know this either, thanks
[11:57] <DrLuke> I don't think it's too important to keep withing the 230N limit, but you should never use anything that's too strong
[11:57] <mattbrejza> the wiki is probably a guide rather then a legal thing
[11:58] <mattbrejza> still a good idea to follow it
[11:58] <DrLuke> mttbrejza: yes, but I intend on creating a short PDF checklist so you can print it out and tick all the boxes
[11:58] <costyn> DrLuke: sounds awesome
[11:58] <DrLuke> because if people keep violating laws, it could very quickly be the end of HABbing
[11:59] <DrLuke> just imagine a plane crashed because a balloon got entangled in an aileron
[11:59] <DrLuke> and 4 people die or something
[12:00] <craag> ok ok! There's a B&Q 1.2 miles away, I'll head there on the way home I promise!
[12:00] <DrLuke> because then you can say that your string was advertised as breaking with a force of 230N or less, and if you got a NOTAM out an all you're out of any legal trouble
[12:00] <DrLuke> sure :)
[12:00] <Randomskk> craag: as an alternative you could just tape the jiffy bag to the balloon.
[12:01] <Randomskk> a NOTAM has no legal implication at all
[12:01] <Randomskk> permission to launch comes from a NoV
[12:01] <craag> That string was mainly jsut to hang it from the window for testing. But kinda 'migrated' on to the final design...
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[12:01] <DrLuke> ranomskk: well, I guess that depends on the country then
[12:01] <Randomskk> not really. the notam is literally just a message to pilots to notify them
[12:01] <DrLuke> because in germany you need to get a flight clearance which comes with a notam
[12:01] <craag> Randomskk: Could do, I thought it might swing less with a bit of string though? Plus the foil might not help the GPS (antenna is right at the top).
[12:02] <Randomskk> DrLuke: the flight clearance is the legal permission. the notam "comes with"
[12:02] <Randomskk> you could get a notam without clearance and that wouldn't be legal
[12:02] <DrLuke> true
[12:02] <Randomskk> craag: the foil might be plastic anyway
[12:02] <DrLuke> I guess I worded that wrong
[12:02] <Randomskk> but either way some thin cord would probably be fine
[12:02] <Randomskk> DrLuke: it's important to be precise with things like this
[12:03] <craag> Ok cool, cheers guys. I was secretly hoping someone would point out something wrong ;)
[12:03] <Randomskk> incidentally for balloons <2m diameter at all times my reading of the ANO is that you don't need low breaking force cord
[12:03] <Randomskk> but whatever, read the ANO yourself and make up your own mind
[12:03] <Randomskk> still a sensible idea, of course.
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[12:03] <costyn> it states 230N in the Dutch laws as well
[12:03] <costyn> gues it's cause it's international
[12:04] <costyn> do laws in other countries state things about density of the payload?
[12:04] <DrLuke> Ranomskk: ANO?
[12:04] <Randomskk> there is an international ICAO thing
[12:04] <Randomskk> DrLuke: air navigation order. the relevant UK legislation
[12:05] <DrLuke> Randomskk: that's an UK only thing though, do you happen to know where weather balloon-laws are described within ICAO?
[12:05] <DrLuke> i.e. the 230N law
[12:05] <Randomskk> I don't know, sorry
[12:06] <Randomskk> I don't think the ICAO thing is binding internationally so much as implemented in most country's legislation
[12:06] <Randomskk> but yea, not a lawyer, haven't investigated, etc
[12:06] <DrLuke> I think ICAO is binding
[12:06] <Randomskk> I mean that the specific wording will be in each country's laws
[12:06] <DrLuke> the whole point of ICAO was to get the same rules worldwide
[12:06] <DrLuke> ah
[12:06] <Randomskk> in the same way that UN member agreements aren't laws, they are protolaws that each member country has to implement
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[12:08] <DrLuke> fun fact: you need to insure your balloon in germany
[12:08] <fsphil> that's not fun
[12:08] <costyn> "fun"
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[12:10] <DrLuke> also the guy from the DFS told me about how I can't launch within a local ED-R which happens to be a nuclear reactor
[12:10] <DrLuke> why would I even want to launch there
[12:10] <costyn> hehe
[12:11] <costyn> so a 230N rope should break if I hang a 25kg weight on it right?
[12:11] <costyn> (approx)
[12:11] <fsphil> You shouldn't launch from a lion enclosure at the zoo either
[12:11] <DrLuke> 23kg
[12:11] <DrLuke> and yes
[12:11] <UpuWork> ah dammit fsphil thats another launch site out
[12:11] <costyn> :D
[12:12] <fsphil> it was otherwise perfect
[12:12] <DrLuke> in case you're curious: this is the nuclear reactor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktto8t12eonxbxy/2012-08-27%2016.10.59.jpg?m :P
[12:13] <DrLuke> gave me some good thermals and prevented me from doing an outlanding
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[12:14] <costyn> DrLuke: so how big is the area around it wher you aren't allowed to launch?
[12:15] <costyn> DrLuke: ah, I see the wing in the picture now :) nice.
[12:15] <DrLuke> I think it's twice the radius of the actual area of the facility
[12:15] <DrLuke> and 800 meters high
[12:15] <DrLuke> (that's why I'm flying there)
[12:16] <costyn> just skirting the edges? :)
[12:16] <DrLuke> no, I was above it
[12:16] <DrLuke> I was in 1200m or so
[12:16] <DrLuke> atleast my gps didn't warn me of any airspace violations :P
[12:16] <costyn> i didn't read/parse the 800 altitude bit for some reason
[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement CRAAG1 Pico (24th/25th September)"
[12:18] <costyn> LazyLeopard: ping
[12:18] <LazyLeopard> Hiya
[12:18] <costyn> LazyLeopard: off-topic, i'll PM you :)
[12:18] <LazyLeopard> 'kay
[12:19] <DrLuke> I'll just buy the nylon thread from rocketboy: http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Stuff.html
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[12:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement CRAAG1 Pico (24th/25th September)"
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[12:30] <Randomskk> oh btw craag
[12:30] <Randomskk> I would bend back the tips of all your thick antenna wire
[12:30] <Randomskk> like, around on themselves
[12:30] <Randomskk> so they're not at all sharp or pointy
[12:31] <craag> Ok. They are just thin but stiff wire.
[12:31] <Randomskk> yea
[12:31] <craag> There's bits of tape on the end of all of them, like you can see on the yellow one.
[12:31] <Randomskk> yup
[12:32] <daveake> I was *very* glad I did that to BEAR1 when it landed on a car
[12:32] <Randomskk> tape is fine but bending the tips back on themselves with some pliars takes a few seconds and makes them much safer
[12:32] <craag> Sure, will do.
[12:32] <costyn> another nice tip
[12:32] <craag> I'll bring it along to the conference this weekend so people can tell me what other bits are wrong :D
[12:32] <daveake> Do remember the payload might land upside down, so do bend "back" and not just "up"
[12:33] <craag> Sure.
[12:33] <costyn> we should compile a 'do's and don'ts' on the wiki
[12:34] <Randomskk> well volunteered
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[12:37] <costyn> yea i'll get it started in a bit
[12:37] <costyn> work getting in the way :)
[12:39] <fsphil> ooh, it's International Talk Like A Pirate Day today :)
[12:39] <fsphil> er, arr
[12:40] <Hix_> to err is human, to Arrgh is pirate!
[12:42] <WillDuckworth> anyone seen today's xkcd? mahoosive
[12:42] <costyn> WillDuckworth: yea really cool
[12:42] <costyn> WillDuckworth: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4542660 <-- useful
[12:43] <Randomskk> what you want is http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/
[12:43] <Randomskk> not scaled PNGs
[12:43] <LazyLeopard> Yeah... my wireless trackball needed a new battery...
[12:43] <Randomskk> but that said
[12:43] <Randomskk> good argument for exploring it on xkcd.com instead
[12:43] <costyn> Randomskk: thats awesome
[12:43] <Randomskk> the slow way
[12:45] <BrainDamage> I wonder how long it took him
[12:45] <Randomskk> I don't imagine it took all that long.
[12:45] <fsphil> someone's been playing LIMBO
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[12:47] <costyn> BrainDamage: I imagine all the blades of grass had to take some time
[12:47] <BrainDamage> nah, that's probably a template
[12:48] <BrainDamage> seems vector drawing, the question is how much is hand drawn, and how much is diy
[12:48] <fsphil> hah, it's crashed firefox
[12:48] <BrainDamage> err, how much is hand drawn, and how much is imported*
[12:51] <costyn> there's even 2 little wingsuit base figures :)
[12:53] <fsphil> raptors!
[12:53] <fsphil> I knew they had to be in there somewhere
[12:53] <fsphil> well, found the left edge
[12:55] <costyn> that x-wing is going to have trouble getting out
[12:56] <fsphil> there's a few places where the images dont' load
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[13:02] <chalcy0n> does anyone know where to get a parachute for my payload?
[13:03] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement CRAAG1 Pico (24th/25th September)"
[13:03] <jgrahamc> chalcy0n: I used one made by Spherachutes
[13:04] <jgrahamc> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/02/gaga-1-parachute.html
[13:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement CRAAG1 Pico (24th/25th September)"
[13:06] <craag> jgrahamc: Just noticed you were on here. Have I answered your question?
[13:06] <jgrahamc> Yes.
[13:06] <Randomskk> for clarity again the NOTAM is an information service to pilots, the 2m deal is a license exemption in the ANO
[13:06] <craag> Ah ok.
[13:06] <Randomskk> it's permission-exempt by law, rather than not requiring a notam
[13:07] <craag> Gotcha.
[13:07] <Randomskk> other balloon flights are against the law, so we obtain a notice of variation that specifically allows them
[13:07] <WillDuckworth> saw you got a bit of fame jgrahamc with the ip4 stuff
[13:07] <Randomskk> I'm not a lawyer, read the ANO yourself, etc etc all apply
[13:07] <chalcy0n> jgrahamc: thx
[13:08] <jgrahamc> True WillDuckworth, but I'm more proud of being on Newsround.
[13:08] <WillDuckworth> missed it - on iplayer?
[13:10] <jgrahamc> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/19630083
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[13:16] <eroomde> a morning of progress. 12 hot-wire cutdown cables done, and made up a new PSU for a project
[13:16] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/ksAhW.jpg
[13:16] <eroomde> i feel like I am at one with cables right now
[13:16] <daveake> core
[13:17] <daveake> Not just be using those ferrules then
[13:17] <daveake> me*
[13:17] <eroomde> bootlace ferrules are the way the truth the light
[13:17] <LazyLeopard> jgrahamc: Cool!
[13:18] <eroomde> people who put stripped wire directly into terminal blocks should have their engineering license revoked
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> what?
[13:18] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/7Af2s.jpg
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> you mean IDC blocks?
[13:19] <daveake> No he means scre terminal blocks
[13:19] <daveake> screw*
[13:19] <BrainDamage> I think he means crimping metal pipes to the cables, before inserting to screw terminal blocks
[13:19] <daveake> Like in the bottom-left of his pic
[13:20] <fsphil> Laurenceb: there are many copies
[13:21] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: what daveake said
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:22] Action: SpeedEvil hadn't clicked.
[13:22] <eroomde> stripped wire into a screw terminal block is at risk of fatiguing off if you look at it funnily
[13:23] <eroomde> unless it's all going to be potted and never moved, it's best avoided
[13:23] <eroomde> or perhaps something that intentionally has a very short lifespan, like an e-match
[13:24] <eroomde> that tends to be solid core anyway though, for wrapping around terminal posts
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[13:25] <eroomde> coffee coffee'd. l8rs
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[13:41] <costyn> yay... hab goodies delivered
[13:41] <costyn> new digital scales :)
[13:41] <Randomskk> handy
[13:42] <daveake> Yeah, I got some too so I didn't have to keep stealing the kitchen ones
[13:43] <number10> I have been told I have to buy some new ones - but the kitchen gets the new ones
[13:43] <Randomskk> hehe
[13:44] <Randomskk> get fishhook scales
[13:44] <Randomskk> really handy for hab payloads
[13:44] <Randomskk> plus very hard to use in the kitchen
[13:44] <daveake> :)
[13:44] <number10> good idea Randomskk
[13:45] <fsphil> I've been wondering why nobody uses those
[13:46] Action: Randomskk does >_>
[13:46] <fsphil> nobody I've seen launch*
[13:46] <fsphil> :)
[13:47] <Randomskk> also they have fish size icons on the lcd
[13:47] <Randomskk> so like a normal payload is a medium sized fish but some are real monsters
[13:47] <fsphil> lol
[13:47] <costyn> haha
[13:48] <costyn> i just got some table-top kitchen scales
[13:48] <fsphil> http://xkcd.com/585/
[13:48] <fsphil> got reminded of that
[13:48] <Randomskk> I have the t-shirt with that shark on
[13:48] <costyn> fsphil: hahaha
[13:49] <fsphil> perfect
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[13:53] <costyn> forgive the perhaps dumb question, but why do you need to weigh stuff at the launch site? you know your necklift so you measure that at home?
[13:54] <Randomskk> you hold the scales upside down
[13:54] <Randomskk> and measure current neck lift
[13:54] <Randomskk> by 'weighing' the balloon
[13:54] <Randomskk> additioanlly you typically have only done final assembly at launch site so often weigh things then too
[13:54] <Randomskk> e.g. multiple payloads, parachutes, extra tape, double-checking, etc
[13:57] <number10> i think on my first one I added well over 30g of tape that I hadnt accounted for on the necklift calculator
[13:58] <number10> the total amount of tape probably weighed more that some of the recent pico flights
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[14:02] <costyn> Randomskk: ok, makes sense I guess
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[14:25] <daveake> fsphil Seen today's? http://www.xkcd.com/1110/
[14:25] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[14:25] <LazyLeopard> That one's gone viral!
[14:25] <Darkside> spent too much time on that
[14:25] <daveake> Just seen it mentioned for the 3rd time myself
[14:26] <costyn> it's very good :)
[14:26] <daveake> It's got balloons and aerial masts and everything :)
[14:26] <LazyLeopard> I think there's one IRC channel I'm in in which it hasn't benn mentioned (that I've noticed) yet...
[14:26] <costyn> Randomskk posted a zoomable version http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/
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[14:26] <fsphil> I spend all lunch time on that daveake
[14:27] <fsphil> I thought it was a parody of the game LIMBO at first
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[14:28] <daveake> balloon + tree ... a parody of some of my flights :D
[14:28] <Darkside> wow
[14:28] <daveake> I must be halfway to Australia by now
[14:28] <Darkside> theres so much in that
[14:30] <costyn> the zoomable version is really the only way to explore it. :)
[14:30] <costyn> if you want to see everything in about 15 minutes
[14:30] <daveake> haha ... got to the other side of the world :)
[14:30] <Darkside> haha
[14:30] <Darkside> there's ellie from contact!
[14:30] <daveake> or is it....?
[14:30] <Darkside> well
[14:30] <Darkside> she's listening to the radio telescope on earphones
[14:30] <Darkside> its got to be
[14:32] <fsphil> beware of raptors
[14:33] <daveake> and spaceships
[14:33] <fsphil> loved the mario bit
[14:33] <costyn> I like the bit with the 2 bird-watchers, the girl looking one way at a yellow warbler, and the guy looking the other way at a massive floating/flying jellyfish
[14:34] <fsphil> someone should print it out
[14:35] <fsphil> or make it into an explorable game
[14:35] <costyn> fsphil: I'm sure someone will do that last bit
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[14:35] <Randomskk> fsphil: it would literally take an aircraft hanger to print at a resolution where you could make out text
[14:35] <Randomskk> cost a small fortune too
[14:36] <daveake> Why 2 whales in the sky ... one should be a bowl of petunias!
[14:36] <fsphil> yea
[14:36] <fsphil> he missed a good chance there
[14:36] <costyn> yes
[14:37] <eroomde> costyn: the downside of fish scales to measure balloon lift is that you also measure the force of the wind on the ballon, if there is any wind
[14:37] <eroomde> which can swamp lift readings
[14:37] <costyn> eroomde: so I've understood yes
[14:37] <Randomskk> yes. consider analogue scales and hoping for a calm day.
[14:38] <eroomde> or buy one of those inflatable hangars for filling
[14:38] <costyn> or fill inside :)
[14:38] <eroomde> i rather want one of those
[14:39] <costyn> on Tim's last one, we were in a warehouse. We could've measured necklift to the gram, but no... not necessary
[14:39] <fsphil> oh no no no
[14:39] <costyn> "it's almost lifting this chair we tied it to while we prepare the payload, should be enough right"
[14:40] <daveake> Perhaps we need a new SI unit in the terminology page
[14:41] <daveake> "Tim": "An arbitrary unit of anything. "That'll be fine" = 1 Tim
[14:41] <costyn> lol
[14:41] <fsphil> You've over Timmed that balloon
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[14:48] <Randomskk> anyone interested in MoD surplus radiosondes?
[14:48] <fsphil> what's in 'em?
[14:48] <Randomskk> I just got cold-called from a MoD surplus seller who has a pallet of them apparently, still sealed
[14:48] <Randomskk> the calls I get...
[14:48] <Randomskk> fsphil: no idea. I asked him to email me some more details
[14:49] <eroomde> i was gonna say bull electrical used to stock them about 10 years ago
[14:49] <Randomskk> probably the standard ones everyone flies though I dunno why the MoD would have them instead of the weather people
[14:49] <eroomde> and then i remembered: Bull Electrical!
[14:49] <eroomde> And they're still there!
[14:49] <eroomde> and it's still the same html as 10 yeasr ago!
[14:49] <Randomskk> lol
[14:49] <Randomskk> oh wow
[14:50] <costyn> aah my eyes!
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[14:50] <Randomskk> bullnet.co.uk?
[14:50] <eroomde> yes
[14:50] <Randomskk> oh god.
[14:50] <costyn> eroomde: you mihgt've mentioned not safe for work or life for that matter
[14:50] <Randomskk> that's really quite awful
[14:50] <eroomde> the best back-of-alorry electronics shop ever
[14:50] <Randomskk> I like that they don't seem to even have a photo for the "salvia divinorium" section
[14:50] <costyn> really? the left column is blue links on a blue background wtf
[14:50] <eroomde> used to be good for the odd robot wars thing like wheelchair motors
[14:51] <eroomde> and every product has its own unique domain
[14:51] <eroomde> it's wonderful
[14:51] <Randomskk> haha amazing
[14:51] <DanielRichman> you entered robot wars?
[14:51] <Randomskk> oh yes, they sell totex balloons apparently
[14:51] <daveake> I once accidentally landed on a web site for the blind. Light blue text and darker blue background. I guess they were trying to even things up
[14:51] <Randomskk> and vaisala radiosondes
[14:52] <eroomde> http://www.bullybeef.co.uk/
[14:52] <eroomde> is their newer site apparently
[14:52] <eroomde> DanielRichman: we don;t talk about it
[14:53] <eroomde> http://www.bullybeef.co.uk/anti-aging-treatment.htm
[14:53] <eroomde> this is a site of dreams
[14:53] <costyn> MiG29 Fulcrum® & F22" Raptor" The MiG-29 is one of the world's most maneuverable and toughest fighter jets. With an innovative, high-tech design, the F-22 represents the cutting-edge of modern air combat. £9.99 (Inc. VAT) <-- pretty cheap for a russian fighter jet
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[14:53] <daveake> So they sell steam engines, carnivorous plants and anti-aging cream
[14:53] <fsphil> wait until you see the carriage charge
[14:53] <costyn> oh it's a game
[14:53] <costyn> requiring at least a pentium 166 mhz
[14:53] <fsphil> damn
[14:54] <fsphil> my machien is only 2.2
[14:54] <daveake> Slingshots too ... all your HAB needs in one place
[14:55] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/lot428.jpg
[14:55] <Randomskk> 10 per box and they have 16 boxes of them apparently
[14:55] <costyn> oh god it's so painful to navigate that bullybeef site
[14:56] <Randomskk> but yea, standard vaisala radiosondes by the looks of it.
[14:56] <Randomskk> the kind you can get for free if you fancy a walk in the countryside with your radio ;)
[14:56] <fsphil> pesky winds always drop then in the sea
[14:57] <eroomde> Randomskk: Darkside has done autopsies on them, he might know more about them
[14:57] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3f4796ff22a57ee70fde6b224aa0a4b0204e3d1c
[14:57] <fsphil> or the isle of man
[14:57] <fsphil> bit far to walk :)
[15:04] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... I guess there's quite a bit of water around for yours to land in...
[15:06] <fsphil> I don't see the launch site on google earth
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[15:10] <rooster_> Hello How are you doing?
[15:11] <UpuWork> anyone in particular or was that aimed at anyone listening ? :)
[15:12] <rooster_> Just anyone listening,, wondering what happened to the lost balloon this past weekend,,
[15:12] <chalcy0n> anybody here experience with a rtl based sdr dongle?
[15:12] <UpuWork> the one launched in the US ? I think its still lost
[15:12] <Laurenceb> http://gushh.net/tmp/arduinoshield.png
[15:12] <UpuWork> it stopped transmitting when it got cold, didn't come back again
[15:12] <UpuWork> hey chalcy0n yes
[15:12] <rooster_> yes the us launched one
[15:12] <UpuWork> chalcy0n http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[15:12] <chalcy0n> UpuWork: thanks
[15:13] <UpuWork> rooster_ yep it froze up which was a shame
[15:13] <rooster_> yes i listened for it on the 2m and the 20 meter band as well myself,, i thought that i might have heard it but not 100% sur4e
[15:14] <UpuWork> there were some reports but nothing verified
[15:14] <chalcy0n> UpuWork: actually I was interested in till which height the signal can still be received with a simple dongle..
[15:14] <UpuWork> it will be down somewhere now
[15:14] <UpuWork> well chalcy0n the higher the better
[15:15] <UpuWork> I'm not sure what the recieved range is with an SDR but 10mW from a balloon to a Yaesu FT817 is about 750km
[15:15] <UpuWork> I've tracked a number of payloads via SDR
[15:15] <chalcy0n> ah ok cool
[15:16] <UpuWork> generally they aren't quite as good as the proper radios but hell they are alot cheaper
[15:16] <UpuWork> Darkside's filter/amp helps alot
[15:16] <chalcy0n> yep exactly :)
[15:16] <rooster_> it was supposed to top out about 60-70 k feet,, but i imagine it is on the ground as you said,, it might be found shortly,, as hunting season is about to begin,, and it will probably be found then
[15:16] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73 that one chalcy0n
[15:16] <UpuWork> rooster_ it floated at 20km which is the coldest part of the sky
[15:17] <UpuWork> warms up as you go higher
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[15:18] <rooster_> so what are you all doing today,, i am listening to 20m SSTV and decoding some rtty and psk
[15:18] <UpuWork> at work
[15:18] <nigelvh> It's 8AM I'm at work.
[15:18] <rooster_> what kind of work do you do?
[15:18] <UpuWork> almost home time here nigelvh :)
[15:18] <UpuWork> I'm the Technical Director of an IT Consultancy
[15:18] <nigelvh> I've got the whole rest of the day.
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[15:19] <rooster_> time for lunch here,,
[15:20] <rooster_> are any of ya'll amatuer radio operators
[15:20] <nigelvh> A number of us.
[15:20] <rooster_> good i am in the right place,, my first time in here
[15:20] <UpuWork> some of us are
[15:21] <UpuWork> I'm M0UPU but don't do much actual radio, no HF anyway
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[15:21] <fsphil> not near enough home time...
[15:22] <UpuWork> not far fsphil :)
[15:22] <nigelvh> I'm K7NVH, and also don't do a whole lot of "rag chewing" but I do use my license a lot for the transmitters on balloons and rockets and whatnot.
[15:22] <rooster_> AJ4UG here,, digital mode mostly for me
[15:23] <fsphil> I'm on HF digital occasionally
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[15:30] <DrLuke> upuwork: would you like to help me out with the active antenna for the ublox neo-6 really quick?
[15:30] <DrLuke> I am confused because there is a 10 ohm resistor and an inductor connected between rf-in and vcc_rf
[15:31] <DrLuke> but the datasheet doesn't specify any value for the inductor, only that it has to match the resonant frequency
[15:31] <UpuWork> hey DrLuke
[15:31] <DrLuke> so, what value should I pick and how exact does the frequency have to be?
[15:31] <UpuWork> yeah the actual inductance isn't too important
[15:31] <UpuWork> jsut bear with me I'll get you the part I've used
[15:31] <DrLuke> ok
[15:31] <UpuWork> well data sheet says pick one with a resonant freq @ 1.5Ghz
[15:32] <UpuWork> and then suggests a part which is 1.7Ghz
[15:32] <DrLuke> oh
[15:32] <DrLuke> so this should do: http://de.farnell.com/epcos/b82498b3680j/induktivitaet-68nh/dp/4000456RL ?
[15:32] <UpuWork> yeah part from its huge :)
[15:33] <UpuWork> sec
[15:33] <UpuWork> I use
[15:34] <UpuWork> Farnell 171-1727
[15:34] <UpuWork> http://de.farnell.com/multicomp/mcft000020/spule-0603-33nh/dp/1711727?Ntt=171-1727
[15:34] <UpuWork> works fine
[15:34] <DrLuke> awesome, thanks!
[15:34] <UpuWork> 0603
[15:34] <DrLuke> yep
[15:34] <DrLuke> all the parts I've used so far are 0603
[15:35] <DrLuke> except for 2 electrolytic caps and the inductor for the dc-dc converter
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[15:37] <costyn> happy with my new scales. going around weighing various things. even blowing on it registers 15grams haha
[15:38] <DrLuke> I did that too when I got my cheapo scale from china :)
[15:38] <DrLuke> my nokia phone weighs 150 grams with everything, but the display alone weighs 50 grams
[15:39] <DrLuke> it's probably made out of titanium
[15:39] <eroomde> i use 0805 usually. because of sundays and cheddar
[15:39] <eroomde> and 0402 if it needs to be wee
[15:39] <DrLuke> :)
[15:39] <eroomde> i actually use 0805 bcause the values are printed on
[15:39] <DrLuke> oh well, 0603 is what I deemed to be still kinda possible with an iron
[15:39] <eroomde> which is useful
[15:40] <DrLuke> indeed
[15:40] <DrLuke> I should keep that in mind
[15:40] <eroomde> v useful when you throw bits on your desk out of the reel
[15:40] <costyn> DrLuke: iphone 4s weighs 140 grams... really quite heavfy
[15:40] <DrLuke> heh
[15:40] <costyn> probably because of the metal and glass
[15:40] <DrLuke> I wonder how much my galaxy s2 weighs
[15:41] <DrLuke> 117 grams
[15:41] <DrLuke> 140 grams with the rubber case thingy
[15:41] <DrLuke> which by the way is super awesome, I can put it on the dashboard of my car, and no matter how stupid I drive, it stays there
[15:42] <DrLuke> :)
[15:42] <fsphil> daveake might like that
[15:42] <DrLuke> haha
[15:46] <costyn> sounds useful :)
[15:46] <costyn> i have a brodit holder; they're really good
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[15:47] <daveake> Ditto
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[15:48] <daveake> If that rubber case thingy can stick to the dash in my Elise, with me driving, I'd be seriously impressed!
[15:48] <anerDev> Hi guys !
[15:48] <anerDev> who can help me ? I have a question ...
[15:48] <daveake> ask it
[15:48] <eroomde> anerDev: not me so definitely don;t ask me
[15:48] <eroomde> definitely
[15:49] <anerDev> so, what's the best external sound card for the software dl-fldigi
[15:49] <anerDev> ?
[15:49] <daveake> no idea
[15:49] <daveake> next ... :)
[15:49] <fsphil> I use the cheapest one I could find
[15:49] <anerDev> uhmm ? I'm confused
[15:49] <fsphil> I don't think it really matters
[15:49] <eroomde> anerDev: no sound card will work especially well for fldigi for any fldigi specific reason
[15:49] <eroomde> as long as it's decently low noise it will be fine
[15:50] <eroomde> so any decent usb soundcard will be fine
[15:50] <eroomde> damn i answerd
[15:50] <anerDev> ah ok ok ! perfect !
[15:50] <daveake> looks like it
[15:50] <anerDev> sorry, I forgot
[15:50] <fsphil> that was quick
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[15:51] <costyn> anerDev: I have this one: used it several times already with fldigi: http://www.terratec.net/en/products/Aureon_Dual_USB_9842.html
[15:51] <anerDev> my name is Andrea German? and I'm italians student ? I0m 18 year old and I have a bad english !
[15:51] <anerDev> thank you costyn !
[15:51] <costyn> anerDev: welcome
[15:51] <fsphil> your english isn't that bad
[15:51] <anerDev> and I would like to create an weather ballon
[15:52] <anerDev> thank you fsphil !
[15:52] <daveake> Better to buy them
[15:52] <anerDev> oh yes !
[15:52] <anerDev> just moment I put
[15:52] <anerDev> where I will buy the materials
[15:52] <anerDev> wait
[15:52] <daveake> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[15:52] <daveake> Start there ^^
[15:52] <eroomde> BrainDamage: go
[15:53] <anerDev> ballon from there http://kaymontballoons.com
[15:53] <anerDev> parachute from there http://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com
[15:53] <anerDev> http://www.the-rocketman.com/chutes.html
[15:53] <daveake> Nah, use the link I gave
[15:53] <anerDev> and this is the software for burst and land http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[15:53] <anerDev> http://habhub.org/predict/
[15:53] <costyn> anerDev: do you have electronics and/or radio experience?
[15:53] <eroomde> anerDev: kaymont are a difficult company to deal with if you are an individual. they only like big orders. so randomsolutions.co.uk buy them so we can buy them individually
[15:53] <anerDev> electronics yes
[15:54] <anerDev> uh wow, just moment I write this website
[15:54] <daveake> OK you can buy GPS etc at http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[15:54] <eroomde> GPS and radio from the upuaut store. it is very good
[15:55] <costyn> and cheap
[15:55] <anerDev> so, I'm going to electronics high school
[15:55] <anerDev> I have very good exp with electronics circuit
[15:55] <anerDev> but with radio I'm 0
[15:55] <eroomde> most people who start balloons have 0 radio experience. don;t worry we can help
[15:56] <BrainDamage> if you need help with the translation, or electronics, I speak italian and ok-ish english
[15:56] <costyn> I was the same
[15:57] <anerDev> Braindamage are u italian ?
[15:57] <BrainDamage> yes
[15:57] <anerDev> o from ?
[15:57] <BrainDamage> como
[15:57] <costyn> anerDev: if you don't have a radio yet, these days it's a good idea to buy the SDR USB dongle: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70
[15:57] <daveake> No, no, buy my scanner instead :D
[15:58] <anerDev> costyn this work with the software ?
[15:58] <anerDev> dl-fldigi
[15:58] <anerDev> '??
[15:58] <daveake> yes
[15:58] <anerDev> perfect ...
[15:58] <BrainDamage> there's a guide how to use it with sdr# and fldigi
[15:59] <BrainDamage> Upu: you might want to stock the R820T tuner dongles
[15:59] <anerDev> sdr is another software ?
[15:59] <BrainDamage> sdr = software defined radio
[15:59] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[15:59] <costyn> anerDev: if you're buying from there, get the habamp as well: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[15:59] <DrLuke> anerDec: You should at some point contact your local flight authority and get information about how to get a flight clearance
[15:59] <eroomde> INFORMATION
[15:59] <BrainDamage> overload
[15:59] <fsphil> I lost you at Hi
[16:00] <anerDev> oh yes ? I will talk with ENAC in the next days
[16:00] <BrainDamage> I checked a while ago, iirc the booking announcement has to arrive > 2 months before the launch, but don't take my word from it since it's been almost an year since I checked
[16:01] <DrLuke> good, otherwise if anything happens you might get into biiig legal trouble ;)
[16:01] <DrLuke> 2 months?! in germany it's 2 weeks
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[16:02] <anerDev> sorry men ? step by step ! :) ? This is my project: create a box with a polystyrene drop-shaped and put in it Arduino controller with: temp sensor, pressure sensor, humidity sensor, sd card reader, gsm/gps shield and the radio system
[16:02] <anerDev> so
[16:02] <fsphil> 2 months, that makes me feel better
[16:02] <anerDev> for receive the signal sugest you to use this http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70 and this http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=73
[16:02] <anerDev> but for send the signal ?
[16:03] <daveake> NTX2 for sending
[16:03] <daveake> e.g. http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=ntx2&product_id=62
[16:04] <DrLuke> very easy to use, basically just hook up the serial pin to the input with a few resistors, you can find a tutorial on ukhas.org.uk
[16:04] <anerDev> perfect !!
[16:04] <eroomde> any pin really
[16:05] <eroomde> save the serial (assuming uart hardware pin) for something more useful
[16:05] <anerDev> this is the tutorial http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 ?
[16:05] <eroomde> yep
[16:05] <costyn> DrLuke: don't be smug about your 2 weeks... you have the "insurance" issue :P
[16:05] <DrLuke> :P
[16:06] <kokey> household content extends to 40km in the sky doesn't it?
[16:06] <Hix> I'm fully comp :D
[16:06] <costyn> UpuWork: if you had balloons and parachutes in your shop, you'd be a one-stop shop :)
[16:06] <Hix> 12,00 miles it say on my policy
[16:07] <Hix> way above HAB territory
[16:07] <Darkside> 1200 miles?
[16:07] <Darkside> man
[16:07] <Darkside> you could have stuff in LEO insured
[16:07] <Darkside> well
[16:07] <Darkside> for part of its orbit
[16:07] <Hix> oops DP issues
[16:07] <Hix> 12000
[16:07] <Darkside> so it'd be insured for a few minutes each day
[16:07] <Darkside> hah
[16:07] <Darkside> even better
[16:07] <eroomde> a few ms
[16:07] <kokey> little short of geostationary tho
[16:07] <nigelvh> Just put it in GEO
[16:07] <Darkside> someone should try that
[16:08] <Hix> bearing in mind my fuel consumption I think geostationary would cost a few £
[16:08] <anerDev> sorry men ? for calculate the time for bust can I use this site: http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/ ?
[16:09] <Hix> yup
[16:09] <anerDev> and for calculate the land place: http://habhub.org/predict/ ?
[16:09] <Hix> yup
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[16:10] <eroomde> time for bust
[16:10] <eroomde> i sometimes feel that way
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[16:19] <anerDev> perfect !
[16:27] <DrLuke> ah bollocks, my insurer won't insure me :(
[16:27] <anerDev> I have an idea !
[16:28] <eroomde> now you must kill yourself?
[16:28] <eroomde> or what
[16:28] <anerDev> the box of payload
[16:28] <anerDev> huahuuhaha
[16:28] <anerDev> have the drop form !
[16:28] <anerDev> because have the minium
[16:28] <anerDev> aerodinamics coeff
[16:29] <DrLuke> eroomde: no, I need to get an extra insurance from somewhere else
[16:29] <DrLuke> hopefully it's not expensive
[16:29] <anerDev> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/14ilf1l.svg
[16:29] <anerDev> watch this
[16:29] <DrLuke> why do you want to lower it's air resistance?
[16:30] <anerDev> because
[16:30] <DrLuke> if anything you want to increase it so it won't fall as fast
[16:30] <anerDev> if the wind blow to the box, it moove lees
[16:31] <anerDev> because is much aerodynamic than simple box with edges
[16:31] <anerDev> how are build the form of airplane wings ? Drop
[16:33] <anerDev> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Airfoils_-_pressure_diagrams.svg
[16:33] <anerDev> it's similar !
[16:34] <DrLuke> I think the amount it wobbles is determined by how you attach it to the parachute
[16:34] <DrLuke> if you have 4 lines from each corner going to the parachute, it'll be more stable
[16:36] <anerDev> oh yes
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[17:16] <Hix_> 555Subaru
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[17:18] Nick change: Hix -> Guest94871
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[17:26] <x-f> was that a..? you know
[17:32] <Hix_> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WNqFQqcIoxk/TvSOXBshMUI/AAAAAAAAAy0/GyNxC6D1Gtk/s1600/2.jpg
[17:40] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[17:40] <Darkside> yes, it's a WRX
[17:40] <Darkside> i would like a WRX
[17:40] <nigelvh> So would I.
[17:40] <nigelvh> But I'm happy with my Outback.
[17:42] <Hix_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEi3PLeEARs&feature=related
[17:42] <Hix_> 306MAXI much better
[17:42] <Hix_> errrrmmm. oops
[17:42] <Hix_> hello HAB world
[17:43] <Hix_> sorry if you had sound and clicked on links
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[18:14] <costyn> Hix_: nice scooby
[18:16] <costyn> rally has to be one of the most balls-to-the-wall mindblowing motorsport there is
[18:18] <costyn> Hix_: 306 maxi is pretty sweet sounding
[18:20] <Hix_> It screamed when it ran. Used to go to a lot of Rallies, you could get so close and smell them. good times
[18:24] <costyn> went to the Safari Rally held in Kenya and Uganda as kid but don't remember it that well
[18:26] <Hix_> that was a carbreaker
[18:26] <Hix_> and an animal breaker
[18:27] <costyn> yea
[18:27] <costyn> I remember once finding a bit that fell of one of the cars and keeping it as a souvenir
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[18:48] <Lunar_Lander__> hello
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[19:06] <anerDev> REGISTER
[19:07] <MrScienceMan> never
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[19:09] <fsphil> lol
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[19:11] <SamSilver_> nn
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander__> check it out! https://xkcd.com/
[19:15] <anerDev> loool
[19:15] <russss> Lunar_Lander__: http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander__> cool!
[19:18] <costyn> Lunar_Lander__: you're late to the party, it's been posted several times today already :)
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander__> ah :)
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander__> that one is cool too https://xkcd.com/1109/
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[19:40] Nick change: G0DJA_ -> G0DJA
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[19:48] <jcoxon> evening
[19:49] <eroomde> it's all relative really
[19:49] <Hix> evennig
[19:50] <Hix> evening even
[19:50] <fsphil> good mornafterevenoon
[19:50] <Hix> morneve fsphil
[19:50] <costyn> fsphil: :D
[19:50] <fsphil> I imagine jetlag must feel a bit like that
[19:50] <daveake> good day
[19:51] <Hix> g'day
[19:51] <x-f> good night from here
[19:51] <eroomde> no, jetlag feels like this
[19:51] <eroomde> goooo..........
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[19:52] <fsphil> k
[19:52] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[19:52] <jcoxon> or perhaps pingu pu
[19:52] <jcoxon> :-p
[19:53] <fsphil> hah!
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[19:54] <fsphil> wb eroomde
[19:54] <Upu> lol
[19:54] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:55] <Hix> the extra credit parts of lcthw.... are they really important to get there and then or are they covered later? I spend quite a bt of time tryingt oget every credit ofter a chpt
[19:56] <eroomde> usually insight comes when someone throws you into the deep end
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[19:56] <eroomde> so many times i've in theory known what this or that is, or this bit of machine learning or that bit of control theory
[19:56] <eroomde> but not until i actually have to program it do i properly get it
[19:56] <eroomde> so i would say worth it
[19:57] <eroomde> even when he says 'go back on all the previous exercises and re-write them using this new technique'
[19:57] <Hix> ok, didn't know if i was trying too hard to grasp something that would be revealed 2 chpts later
[19:57] <Hix> i did erk at reading the ss manual though ;p
[19:57] <eroomde> i don;t think they're quite that bad
[19:58] <eroomde> SICP *is* that bad
[19:58] <eroomde> every singleexercise contains some crucial insight you will later need
[19:58] <eroomde> but you do reach orgasmatronic enlightenment somewhere in chapter 3
[19:58] <eroomde> and start seeing the matrix
[19:59] <Hix> chp 3? really I buggered on all:
[20:01] <eroomde> i found it a bit light chocolate cake
[20:01] <eroomde> if you eat loads all at once you will get diambetes and that will ruin you for life
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[20:02] <eroomde> i have not finished it though. i should while i still have a bit of momentum
[20:03] <eroomde> you remember when websites had background music quite often
[20:03] <eroomde> and also you could sell you wife
[20:03] <eroomde> sometimes progress is a good thing
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[20:10] <Hix> html bg music was worth progress!!!
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[20:11] <Hix> as in getting rid of though i'm sure html5 will see a resurgence
[20:11] <eroomde> you'll write the notes in css
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> <marquee>
[20:12] <Hix> SSD's, now that is progress
[20:12] <eroomde> yes
[20:12] <eroomde> numpy
[20:12] <eroomde> making linear algebra worth doing in C instead
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> this is why i use octave
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> but trying to do stuff without loops makes me angry
[20:14] <eroomde> it's ok often
[20:14] <eroomde> but yes i agree that sometimes being idiomatic feels a bit idiotic
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> you can just leave it crunching over night for some problems
[20:15] <eroomde> but 1-indexing
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> thats how i solved the OFDM symbol problem i has the other day
[20:15] <eroomde> and being a basically horrible lamguage in all other respects other than linalg
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> heh
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[20:16] <eroomde> also operator overloading is nice
[20:17] <eroomde> quaternion.multiply(a,b) everywhere is very annoying compared to a*b
[20:17] <eroomde> annoying for me writing it anyway
[20:17] <eroomde> might play tricks with joe the work experience kid maintainer in 2 years
[20:17] <eroomde> but i do not care about him
[20:18] Action: Laurenceb_ has been getting annoyed at dataloggers all day
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> for some reason reformatting the volume corrupts the MBR
[20:18] <eroomde> BYO
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> ?
[20:18] <eroomde> build your own
[20:19] <eroomde> or buy one from airborne engineering ltd
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> wut
[20:19] <eroomde> special price
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> never
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> it is my own datalogger
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> stm32 based
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> with tons of usb mass storage blerg
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[20:20] <Laurenceb_> to be fair it can probably be debugged with creative use of dd
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> but i lack the will to live atm
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> mainly as i have EMC testing booked starting at 8am tomorrow :S
[20:21] <eroomde> give up now then
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> once the IP is licensed i can relax
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[20:23] <Laurenceb_> relax/work on some actual worthwhile projects
[20:24] <eroomde> i watched the great british bakeoff
[20:24] <eroomde> there are two reasons to watch it
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> actual conversation this morning Boss: "i've been wanting to build that for 20 years now"
[20:24] <eroomde> i find it a proxy for worthwhile activity
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[20:24] <Laurenceb_> me: "what the part that took me 3 hours coding"
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> Boss: "erm.. yes"
[20:24] <eroomde> would have taken more than 3 hours to code 20 years ago, possibly
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> true
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> of course making code that "works" and idiot proof reliable stuff is at least an order of magnitude difference in difficulty
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> as I have found :/
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander__> damn, Kerbal Space Program isn't free anymore?
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> someone at Loughborough uni "sports science"broke one of the units I built by submersing it in a swimming pool
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander__> Sport? https://xkcd.com/1107/
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> they thought putting it in a tesco bag would keep it dry
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> oops
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> more of the sports, and less of the science.
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[20:32] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32-Logger/blob/master/Util/USB/usb_scsi.c#L354
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> for some reason that doesnt fix formatting
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander__> https://xkcd.com/1109/
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> - old ST version of the code commented
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> format appears to go ok, but i get a bad superblock on mount
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> and MBR is corrupted
[20:37] <Hix> Bastard! devil is in the details. I wa strying to get the all: to clear the previous make didn't realise I was only trying to get make and make clean to happen frm just make
[20:37] <Hix> ARTFQ!!!!
[20:38] <eroomde> this is why ensuring you actually try everything is necessary, vs just reading it and persuading yourself that you grok it
[20:38] <eroomde> also if you ever get stuck with make then there's a chap on this channel who is quite handy
[20:39] <Hix> Oh I was trying, since i picked it back up this eve I was trying to do the wrong thing. I had it doing make and make clean last night from make
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[20:40] <eroomde> http://www.lulu.com/shop/john-graham-cumming/gnu-make-unleashed/paperback/product-2937580.html
[20:40] <Hix> eroomde, were you referring to dave? :p
[20:40] <eroomde> see the link
[20:40] <Hix> ahhh - i see!!
[20:41] <eroomde> although being really good at make is in some ways a bit like being really good at guitar hero
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[20:42] <Hix> GOD! nothing worse
[20:42] <Hix> I don't do any games *used to play colin mcrae about 10 years ago
[20:43] <eroomde> I do games
[20:43] <eroomde> one of them is really fun
[20:43] <eroomde> it's called
[20:43] <eroomde> trying to make numpy do linear algebra properly
[20:45] <eroomde> that's the only game i've played recently actually
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[20:47] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/INBzM.jpg
[20:47] <eroomde> timing
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[20:48] <MrScienceMan> all the people on that pic are dead seconds after
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> i have an ebay search for the kiddie battery version of one of those broken.
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[20:49] <SpeedEvil> I want to make a r/c lawnmower
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> well, programmed
[20:49] <MrScienceMan> consider removing the comma
[20:50] <MrScienceMan> for the sake of the neighbours
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[20:52] <Hix> :D
[20:53] <Hix> automated lawnmower with paramters stored for lawn from a datum. i.e the shed
[20:53] <Hix> SMS to launch
[20:53] <eroomde> i'll lend you the laser rangfinder upu is getting me for localisation iuw
[21:06] <Hix> eroomde, no, wait, I was trying to do the right thing wasn't I? i should be trying to get "make" to rm the previous ex.... and make clean then make?
[21:07] <eroomde> make clean should rm the previous ex
[21:07] <eroomde> it should get rid of everything that comes as a result of the build process
[21:07] <eroomde> leaving you only with the source files
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[21:09] <Hix> i.e ex1.c
[21:09] <eroomde> yep
[21:10] <Hix> bugger. back to sqaure one "I will beat it" to the tune of ohm mane padme ohm
[21:10] <Hix> no resistance gags!!!
[21:11] <eroomde> i don't know that tune anyway
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[21:15] <Hix> bhuddist mantra
[21:16] <Hix> hmmm, i'm still not sold
[21:18] <Hix> mindfuddled
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 20 2012