highaltitude.log.20120907

[00:13] Nick change: DRAMAWAY -> DRAMA
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[01:49] <arko> oh hey, when's the launch? did I miss it?
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[05:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Troy Reabe "[UKHAS] Re: I2C arduino wire library mod success!!!"
[05:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
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[06:25] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
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[07:06] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Re: I2C arduino wire library mod success!!!"
[07:12] <Randomskk> daveake: around?
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[07:15] <daveake> very round
[07:16] <Randomskk> hi
[07:16] <daveake> what can I do for you? :)
[07:16] <Randomskk> so with the flight thing
[07:16] <daveake> yeah
[07:16] <Randomskk> you need to make a flight document
[07:16] <Randomskk> the payload configuration thing you have tells habitat how to parse telem from CLOUD
[07:16] <Randomskk> the flight document tells it and dl-fldigi that there's an upcoming flight
[07:16] <daveake> sure
[07:16] <daveake> Was wondering how come mondo had it but cloud didn't
[07:17] <Randomskk> yea I made one for mondo
[07:17] <daveake> aaah
[07:17] <Randomskk> but didn't know any of the details for cloud
[07:17] <daveake> now I understand :)
[07:17] <Randomskk> like name/time/etc
[07:17] <Randomskk> same deal with darkside and steve's stuff
[07:17] <daveake> But isn't that in the json?
[07:17] <number10> not going to beable to try the fldigi as off on holiday - does it still echo the telemetry data to the local host Randomskk ?
[07:17] <daveake> 'cos I entered the launch time, name
[07:17] <Randomskk> daveake: when did you enter launch time/name?
[07:18] <Randomskk> old genpayload or new? :P
[07:18] <daveake> Erm, 2-3-4 days ago
[07:18] <Randomskk> basically there's now two documents where before there was one
[07:18] <daveake> Oh, old
[07:18] <daveake> sure
[07:18] <daveake> OK no prob will do in a mo
[07:18] <Randomskk> now there is flight, which has launch details and contains a reference to a payload_config, which has telem details
[07:18] <Randomskk> this way you can relaunch the same payload quickly without re-entering all the payload stuff
[07:18] <Randomskk> and one launch can easily have multiple payloads and stuff
[07:19] <daveake> Sure understand that, it's just that having seen the 2 flights in the list I wondered why mine wasn't magically there :)
[07:19] <Randomskk> sure
[07:19] <daveake> btw I noticed that CLOUD appears twice in the dl-fldigi full list
[07:19] <Randomskk> yea, just because I couldn't find the details for cloud's launch
[07:19] <daveake> Is that because I edited it?
[07:19] <Randomskk> yup that's also somewhat anticipated -- there's no "editing" of documents per se, only making new ones that mostly copy old ones
[07:19] <daveake> Ah OK
[07:19] <Randomskk> but might change dl-fldigi to only show the latest of each or something
[07:19] <Randomskk> probably not -- it's useful if you have multiple versions of a payload
[07:19] <daveake> I didn't check, but is there a delete button?
[07:20] <Randomskk> will see how it goes
[07:20] <Randomskk> not as it stands
[07:20] <Randomskk> (otherwise anyone could delete)
[07:20] <daveake> Lots of old crud in there - e.g. CLOUD2 can go
[07:20] <daveake> ok
[07:20] <Randomskk> yea, we're going to see about clearing it out soonish
[07:20] <Randomskk> probably with some kind of automatic archival thing
[07:20] <daveake> Perhaps do a mail along the lines of "say if you want yous kept otherwise it's going" :)
[07:20] <daveake> +
[07:20] <daveake> r
[07:20] <Randomskk> yea, might work
[07:21] <Randomskk> the idea is that the big list in dl-fldigi is only really for finding a payload to test with
[07:21] <Randomskk> and you don't even need to select a payload to test it
[07:21] <Randomskk> so it doesn't need to get much use
[07:21] <daveake> ok
[07:21] <daveake> Well I only used it 'cos mine wasn't in the active list :)
[07:21] <Randomskk> the active flights list is basically what should be used most/all the time and it'l only show active and approved flights, which automatically link to the right payload
[07:21] <Randomskk> yup
[07:21] <Randomskk> all I mean is that for testing your own payload you can equally just set the RTTY stuff yourself in dl-fldigi and it'l still work/decode/upload
[07:22] <daveake> of course
[07:22] <daveake> that's what I usually do
[07:22] <Randomskk> but yes, the list is there so you can check it and use it etc :P
[07:22] <daveake> as the list is sooo long
[07:22] <Randomskk> I think the list does have a search thing
[07:22] <daveake> Yep
[07:22] <daveake> The active list is going to be good in the chase car - the old full list was *much* higher than my car PC screen :)
[07:23] <Randomskk> but yea, will probably look into clearing out old payload configs soonish
[07:23] <Randomskk> yup that's the hope -- the new active list should stay small and relevant
[07:23] <Randomskk> at one point we were not going to copy over the payload configs at all :P
[07:23] <Randomskk> just make everyone redo them from the payload config editor
[07:23] <daveake> I do have a radio keyboard in the car, and that list was about the only time it got used.. Everything else is easy on the touchscreen
[07:23] <Randomskk> I don't know if you saw, but it has a wizard where you just paste in a telemetry string and it guesses all of it
[07:24] <daveake> No, not seen though I remember you or someone mentioning it. nice :)
[07:24] <Randomskk> at any rate give me a shout when you've made the flight document and I'll approve it
[07:24] <daveake> Sure
[07:24] <daveake> I'll do that now
[07:24] <Randomskk> and if you see darkside or steve, poke them :P
[07:24] <daveake> I'll leave cloud running all day in case that uncovers any bugs (though I doubt it)
[07:24] <Randomskk> no idea about your issue #2 though, I'll ask daniel
[07:25] <Randomskk> might be to do with optimisations or something
[07:25] <daveake> Yeah, Upu tried and it was OK
[07:25] <daveake> Easy to repeat here - just hold down the left mouse button in the title bat
[07:25] <daveake> I had old and new running; got the new one to stop decoding and th eold one kept going fine
[07:25] <daveake> new one then took several seconds to resync
[07:25] <Randomskk> interesting
[07:26] <Randomskk> I like to imagine it's either a thing in the new upstream fldigi or a thing in the build configuration but will pass it on
[07:26] <daveake> My desktop spans 4 monitors so sometimes it takes a while to reposition windows :D
[07:27] <Randomskk> hehe
[07:28] <fsphil> the UI thread must be blocking when scrolling
[07:28] <daveake> For the launch window, if I chose "launch day" that will or won't allow testing to spacenear today?
[07:28] <fsphil> that's odd
[07:30] <Randomskk> daveake: testing is always ok
[07:30] <Randomskk> and just based on payload_configuration
[07:30] <Randomskk> launch window just selects what telemetry will get associated with the launch
[07:30] <daveake> Randomskk Ta
[07:30] <Randomskk> (and also, soon, testing telemetry will require clicking a button on spacenear.us to view, while launch stuff will show up by default)
[07:30] <daveake> Thought so as it uploads now and there's no flight doc :)
[07:30] <daveake> Ah yes good
[07:31] <Randomskk> so yea, you also no longer need to have a flight doc (or speak to anyone) to get stuff uploading
[07:31] <daveake> Upu couldn't reproduce but his payload is 50 baud and has long gaps between sentences. Mine is 300 and doesn't.
[07:31] <Randomskk> payload_configuration docs just work as soon as you make them
[07:31] <daveake> Yeah, I saw when I changed the xor to crc16
[07:31] <Randomskk> note that telemetry is tried against flight configurations first though
[07:31] <Randomskk> so like, if you have two payload_configuration documents that _could_ work, e.g. they are similar, it will use the one that's in an active flight before the one that isn't
[07:31] <Randomskk> (which is part of why flight docs get approved)
[07:32] <Randomskk> though that's unlikely to be an issue just yet hopefully.. :p
[07:33] <daveake> Randomskk Flight doc added
[07:33] <daveake> ID 0b50f907981d72db56cc69c20fe28398 in case you need that :)
[07:33] <Randomskk> I have a handy list of flight docs :P
[07:33] <Randomskk> hmm I wonder if we should rename EARS
[07:34] <daveake> Yes
[07:34] <Randomskk> if you start typing EARS it will autocomplete the location and lat/lng for you
[07:34] <daveake> Steve wants it renamed - he said he wants to lose the EARS name
[07:34] <G0DJA> Firefox seems to have stopped working - Is this getting through I wonder?
[07:34] <Randomskk> okay
[07:34] <Randomskk> will do
[07:34] <Randomskk> G0DJA: it is
[07:34] <daveake> Ah didn't know :)
[07:34] <G0DJA> Ta
[07:35] <daveake> I nearly suggested the auto-comple and auto lat/long as a feature request :D
[07:35] <Randomskk> daveake: approved
[07:35] <daveake> lol non auto-complete on my "auto-comple" ^^
[07:35] <daveake> thanks :)
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[07:35] <G0DJA> Need to restart though to get browser to work I think
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[07:35] <fsphil> all we need now is auto-launch
[07:35] <daveake> That's on my to-do
[07:36] <daveake> Big NASA-stylee countdown clock and nichrome
[07:36] <daveake> Thing is, it's never calm enough for that
[07:36] <daveake> Well 2 of my launches have been
[07:37] <gonzo___> saw a nice 7seg display made from incandescent strip lamps (like you gave over a bathroom mirror) on a board
[07:37] <gonzo___> 2ft high 7seg. Noce
[07:37] <gonzo___> nice
[07:38] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[07:38] <daveake> Erm ... in the flight drop-down, "Cloud7" has no flight docs listed, but Bello Mondo has 2 (including Cloud!)
[07:38] <daveake> Randomskk ^^ check plz :)
[07:40] <Randomskk> checking now
[07:41] <Randomskk> haha interesting
[07:41] <Randomskk> yes I see the problem
[07:41] <daveake> Thought you'd like it :)
[07:42] <daveake> "Obviously" I chose CLOUD when adding (the second one in the list, as that's the later one)
[07:42] <Randomskk> try now
[07:42] <daveake> fixed
[07:42] <daveake> thanks :)
[07:42] <Randomskk> no problem
[07:42] <Randomskk> (this is why I have marked off saturday to sit around and babysit habitat :P)
[07:42] <daveake> lol
[07:42] <Randomskk> so the issue there is that your flight document started at the same time as the bello mondo one
[07:43] <Randomskk> and it was associating flight docs based on start time
[07:43] <Randomskk> which is of course very silly
[07:43] <daveake> Dunno about Michael, but we'll be on site around midday
[07:43] <fsphil> whoops
[07:43] <Randomskk> but somehow didn't come up in testing
[07:43] <daveake> ah
[07:43] <daveake> lol @ that one :)
[07:43] <Randomskk> it's part of how document association works in couch
[07:43] <UpuWork> 2in test
[07:43] <UpuWork> "in testing" :)
[07:43] <UpuWork> we are testing now :)
[07:43] <Randomskk> I think the actual fix is relatively easy though
[07:43] <Randomskk> (as opposed to the bodge which is what I just did and involves changing one start date by a second)
[07:44] <daveake> :D
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[07:50] <Randomskk> EARS has been renamed to Elsworth on the genpayload
[07:50] <daveake> Cool :)
[07:51] <daveake> On /predict too would be good.
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[07:54] <Randomskk> done
[07:55] <daveake> Hmm, what else can I think of ... :p
[07:55] <daveake> thanks :)
[07:56] <daveake> Yeah, change Adelaide to "Down Under" :p
[07:56] <Randomskk> haha, tempting
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[08:41] <DanielRichman> the fldigi window dragging bug looks really fun :)
[08:42] <Randomskk> hehe
[08:43] <Randomskk> does the windows build enable any cpu optimisations? can you even do that for a generic build?
[08:43] <DanielRichman> I will investigate it fully, but ... it doesn't sound like an issue for Sat, so can wait until after the flights?
[08:43] <daveake> Sure
[08:43] <daveake> Thought you'd like it :)
[08:43] <daveake> I was hoping (for your sake!) it would be "oh year I mad xxx buffer smaller I'll make it bigger now" :)
[08:44] <daveake> yeah*
[08:44] <daveake> made*
[08:44] <MrScienceMan> the most fun you can have since windows 98 freezes
[08:44] <DanielRichman> I like nothing more than obscure threading bugs in fldigi
[08:44] <daveake> That's what I feared it would be
[08:44] <Randomskk> hmm something must be wrong with my sarcasm detector, it's hitting the end stop
[08:45] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I don't think anything besides -O2
[08:45] <DanielRichman> unsure
[08:45] <Randomskk> configure has some things like sse2 and what have you
[08:45] <DanielRichman> there are some sse2 things yeah
[08:45] <Randomskk> but I don't know what happens if you enable them and then try to run on a machine that doesn't support it
[08:46] <DanielRichman> I'd expect a problem with them results in a speedy crash
[08:46] <Randomskk> hah
[08:46] <Randomskk> I like to pretend to myself it could use the optimised bits if possible and otherwise fall back to normal things
[08:46] <Randomskk> but yea
[08:46] <Randomskk> no.
[08:47] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the 0/1 flag at the end of the key is to sort flight docs before related payloads, a la http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/View_collation
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[08:48] <Randomskk> hi RocketBoy
[08:48] <RocketBoy> yo
[08:49] <Randomskk> any chance you could fill in a flight doc (click 'create new' on 'flight documents') for saturday? the payload configuration is all done, but stuff like launch name/location/time/blabla
[08:49] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[08:49] <Randomskk> I would have made one up for you but didn't know things like the launch name
[08:49] <Randomskk> mostly the launch name
[08:50] <RocketBoy> yeah - sorry I was away for a couple of days - bck now
[08:50] <Randomskk> (new genpayload: there's payload configuration documents which are separate and persist and work by themselves and you don't need to ask anyone to add one, but there's also flight documents which just say "this payload configuration will be launching on this day" basically)
[08:50] <Randomskk> no problem
[08:50] <Randomskk> no rush or anything. worst case I'd just shove something together for saturday
[08:50] <RocketBoy> just came on to see if daveake wa here - ask him what time to go for
[08:51] <daveake> who?
[08:51] <daveake> :)
[08:51] <daveake> Meet at midday
[08:51] <daveake> Darkside's train arrives Didcot at 9:30
[08:51] <daveake> So enough time to get to Elsworth for midday, even in the slugmobile
[08:52] <daveake> So I put in 1pm as launch time
[08:52] <RocketBoy> cheers - I wanted to do the website listing
[08:52] <RocketBoy> just waiting for mick to get back to me
[08:53] <daveake> He has his launch time down as midday
[08:53] <RocketBoy> I managed to get all the work done in lomndon - so Im back a day early
[08:53] <RocketBoy> OK I'll post the listing foor
[08:54] <RocketBoy> for 11 - 3pm
[08:54] <daveake> Ah good, you won't need the lay-in then :D
[08:54] <daveake> Darkside's train is booked, and I don't know if he can get an earlier one on the same ticket, but I think noon works for all
[08:55] <UpuWork> Oh nice I can have a sleep in :)
[08:56] <daveake> Don't you have Jodrell Bank set up for auto everything yet?
[08:56] <UpuWork> not yet working on it
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[09:02] <Darkside> hey RocketBoy
[09:03] <RocketBoy> hey dark
[09:03] <Darkside> RocketBoy: do you have any small parachutes which can be used as a load-bearing part of a balloon train?
[09:03] <Randomskk> Darkside! hi. you too should make a flight document please (have already copied over the payload config)
[09:03] <Darkside> Randomskk: genpayload?
[09:03] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload
[09:03] <Randomskk> yup
[09:03] <Randomskk> it's new
[09:03] <Randomskk> and exciting
[09:03] <Randomskk> read the front page and then make a flight doc
[09:03] <Darkside> k
[09:04] <RocketBoy> Dark side yep - both the Rocketman and Spherachutes are like that - with attachement loops at the top
[09:05] <Darkside> Ra creaded
[09:05] <Darkside> ff
[09:05] <Darkside> RocketBoy: ok, whats teh smallest you have
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[09:05] <Darkside> Randomskk: i've greated one
[09:06] <Darkside> http://pastebin.com/YVDTQ8G2
[09:06] <Randomskk> you don't need to pastebin them any more
[09:06] <Randomskk> it's already saved to the database
[09:06] <Darkside> oh ok
[09:06] <Randomskk> I just approve it
[09:06] <Randomskk> it's very neat
[09:06] <Randomskk> payload_configuration documents go live automatically too
[09:06] <RocketBoy> well dave is getting my last 18" spherachte - but I have 2ft Rocketman
[09:06] <Darkside> Project Horus UK Division Project Horus
[09:06] <Darkside> lol
[09:06] <Darkside> RocketBoy: hmm
[09:06] <Darkside> i'll need to check on my payload weight
[09:06] <Darkside> i know its going to be very light
[09:07] <Randomskk> approved
[09:07] <Randomskk> should see it in dl-fldigi
[09:07] <Darkside> cool
[09:07] <Darkside> il get teh new new version
[09:07] <Randomskk> yes, do that :p
[09:08] <RocketBoy> I have some small PML chutes that have had attachment loops added - your welcome to borrow that
[09:08] <Darkside> haha
[09:08] <Darkside> it doesnt work
[09:08] <Randomskk> the new dl-fldigi?
[09:08] <Darkside> it can't fid libltdl.3
[09:08] <Darkside> which hamlib needs
[09:08] <Randomskk> that's interesting. what dl-fldigi are you downloading?
[09:08] <Randomskk> and what OS X are you using?
[09:08] <Darkside> the one in your email
[09:08] <Darkside> 10.7
[09:08] <Randomskk> the .zip or the .dmg?
[09:08] <Darkside> the dmg
[09:09] <Randomskk> l2read
[09:09] <Darkside> oh
[09:09] <Darkside> shit
[09:09] <Darkside> my bad
[09:09] <Darkside> derpaderp
[09:09] <Randomskk> I spent sooo long making a fully statically linked binary distribution for OS X 10.6+
[09:09] <Randomskk> but it should totally work :P
[09:09] <Darkside> hmm
[09:09] <Darkside> the multimode stuff doesnt work
[09:10] <Randomskk> in what way?
[09:10] <Darkside> MILLINUT should have 300 baud and 50 baud options
[09:10] <Darkside> as i may change it during the flight
[09:10] <Randomskk> well the payload config doesn't
[09:10] <Randomskk> I don't think multimode things copied over right
[09:10] <Randomskk> just edit the payload_config document
[09:10] <Randomskk> go to genpayload
[09:11] <Randomskk> 'start from existing'
[09:11] <Randomskk> select millinut
[09:11] <Randomskk> duplicate the radio mode to give it a second one
[09:11] <Randomskk> you will also need to update the flight document to point at the new version of the payload configuration
[09:12] <Randomskk> wait
[09:12] <Randomskk> hang on, this is my fault anyway
[09:12] <Randomskk> it did copy fine, had 50/300 baud
[09:12] <Randomskk> then I read your email saying it was 300 baud and got rid of the 50 baud
[09:12] <Darkside> wait
[09:12] <Darkside> hrm
[09:12] <Darkside> i think i selected the wrong one
[09:12] <Darkside> i see 2 millinuts
[09:12] <Darkside> one has the wrong sentence structure
[09:12] <Randomskk> one is probably older.
[09:13] <Darkside> actually
[09:13] <Randomskk> in fact no
[09:13] <Darkside> they both have the wrong sentence structure
[09:13] <Randomskk> I see
[09:13] <Randomskk> well that's probably because whatever millinut was in the old database had the wrong sentence structure
[09:13] <eroomde> they wrong both sentence structure have
[09:13] <Darkside> ok
[09:13] <Randomskk> but at any rate the two millinuts are the one with 300bd+50bd and the one I made last night for you that just has 300bd and is on the right frequency
[09:13] <Darkside> Randomskk: ill modify it
[09:13] <Randomskk> go for it. make a new payload_configuration that's entirely correct.
[09:13] <Darkside> yeah ill modify the dual-baud rate one
[09:13] <Randomskk> you could even try the new sentence wizard if you wanted
[09:14] <Randomskk> be sure the frequency is correct too
[09:14] <Randomskk> give it a useful description and then update the flight document.
[09:16] <Darkside> done
[09:16] <Darkside> remove the project horus uk division project horus flight doc
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[09:20] <Randomskk> new flight approved
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[09:26] <eroomde> new fldigi looks nice
[09:26] <eroomde> works fine on my machine
[09:26] <Randomskk> great. os x? version?
[09:27] <eroomde> ubuntu 12.04 64bit
[09:27] <Randomskk> oh cool
[09:27] <Randomskk> also great
[09:27] <eroomde> i will try it on osx in a bit
[09:27] <fsphil> working well on fedora 17 too
[09:28] <eroomde> oooh, i can put spacenear.us map on the 42" tv
[09:28] <Randomskk> :D
[09:28] <fsphil> ground control
[09:28] <gonzo_> mission ctrl!
[09:28] <eroomde> i still think the best ground control we had was in the meeting room on the roof of CUED
[09:28] <Randomskk> it is ace
[09:28] <eroomde> with the projector doing spacenear.us
[09:28] <fsphil> is that the one that had all the projectors?
[09:29] <Randomskk> not to mention the yagis on rotators just out the door
[09:29] <eroomde> yes the auto-yagis was the best bit
[09:29] <Randomskk> or the insanely high speed internet
[09:30] <gonzo_> I have run WXtrack on the projector. Reall norad look to it. But my projector is in the other room, so get a stiff neck trying to work that way
[09:30] <eroomde> fsphil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157627829326013/
[09:30] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270639566/in/set-72157627829326013
[09:31] <eroomde> this really is a hab accessory of choice
[09:31] <fsphil> that's the one
[09:31] <Randomskk> need to get that phasing array
[09:31] <UpuWork> I got one of those :)
[09:31] <eroomde> the phased array would be even better
[09:31] <UpuWork> I don't have one of those
[09:31] <Randomskk> we have two matched yagis
[09:31] <fsphil> I've got a phased array (if you call 2 an array)
[09:31] <eroomde> infact i don;t think it will be possible to beat it
[09:31] <UpuWork> but my antenna is bigger to start off with
[09:31] <Randomskk> all it needs is some coax
[09:32] <Randomskk> UpuWork: be careful there
[09:32] <Randomskk> cusf has a heck of a budget right now
[09:32] <eroomde> i mean the electronically steerable phased array :)
[09:32] <Randomskk> eroomde: ah yes
[09:32] <Randomskk> that would be unbeatable
[09:32] <eroomde> that will be able to track multiple payloads on the same frequency at once
[09:33] <eroomde> and could be car-roof mounted too
[09:33] <UpuWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/48ruujwu8j3g5gg/2012-09-05%2020.01.06.jpg
[09:33] <eroomde> infact it could be balloon mounted
[09:33] <eroomde> and done in reverse
[09:33] <UpuWork> thats me for tommorrow
[09:33] <fsphil> daveake getting ideas now I bet
[09:33] <UpuWork> the Yagi at the front is "Upu Steerable"
[09:33] <eroomde> so the balloon could constatly beam-steer towards the ground receiver
[09:33] <Randomskk> eroomde: so much for multiple receivers
[09:34] <Randomskk> could beam steer towards all active receivers
[09:34] <Randomskk> that would be amusing
[09:34] <Randomskk> heck of a weird radiation pattern
[09:34] <fsphil> wouldn't all this be heavy?
[09:34] <Randomskk> the batteries for that many FPGAs might
[09:34] <fsphil> yea
[09:34] <Randomskk> UpuWork: looks pretty good :P
[09:34] <eroomde> fsphil: no problem
[09:35] <eroomde> save weight by getting rid of parachute
[09:35] <Randomskk> is it az/el or just az?
[09:35] <eroomde> ax/el
[09:35] <Randomskk> upu's
[09:35] <UpuWork> the one at the back with the colinear on top is az/el
[09:35] <Randomskk> oh cool
[09:35] <Randomskk> do you really need two? :P
[09:35] <eroomde> but convolved with the potential manifold created by all the different elements in the array
[09:35] <UpuWork> the one at the front I'm considering putting some strings on so I can do AZ from the window :)
[09:35] <Randomskk> three inc the colinear haha
[09:35] <UpuWork> there are 3 there
[09:35] <Randomskk> crazy
[09:35] <UpuWork> I thought I was being clever then I find out someone is launching 4 payloads...
[09:35] <eroomde> so basically, if the consitituent antennas all have nulls straight above, the array as a whole will also not be v good straight above
[09:36] <Randomskk> meh so shove all your antennas at random orientations
[09:36] <eroomde> there is that
[09:36] <Randomskk> I'm sure finding the manifold for that would be no problem
[09:36] <eroomde> of just use isotropic antennas
[09:36] <Randomskk> oh yes, there is that
[09:36] <Randomskk> should have thought of that really
[09:36] <eroomde> stuuuupid
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[09:37] <eroomde> but yes, i think a system that could do 8 habs simultaneously (with a bunch of assumptions) should be possible with a singla small array
[09:40] <Randomskk> do you really reckon performance would beat a stack of yagis on a rotator?
[09:41] <UpuWork> which Yagis are on the trackotron ?
[09:41] <UpuWork> yagi even
[09:41] <Randomskk> I forget
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[09:42] <UpuWork> try again which antennas are on the Trackotron ?
[09:42] <Randomskk> I forget
[09:42] <Randomskk> nice ish ones?
[09:42] <UpuWork> you don't get a huge amount more gain from stacking if I recall
[09:43] <Randomskk> depends how you stack
[09:43] <UpuWork> I think I looked at 2, gave about +3dB over a single
[09:43] <Randomskk> I thought you can pretty much half the beamwidth every time you double the number of yagis in that direction
[09:43] <Randomskk> yea
[09:43] <Randomskk> sounds about right
[09:43] <Randomskk> and four gives you another 3dB and so on
[09:43] <UpuWork> the 19 element is about 16dB on its own
[09:43] <Randomskk> yea but the elements quickly require more and more length
[09:44] <UpuWork> oh yeah
[09:44] <UpuWork> the 10 element diamond in the forground is 13dB
[09:44] <Randomskk> so stacking becomes a better way to get more and more gain after that really
[09:44] <eroomde> it's pretty simple
[09:44] <Randomskk> also looks cool
[09:44] <eroomde> double the elements = up to 3dB gain
[09:44] <eroomde> you can either double the length of a single yagi or do 2 side by side
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[09:44] <eroomde> up to 3dB gain because practice/theory, end effects and friction
[09:45] <Randomskk> stupid friction
[09:45] <Upu> that 19 element is 3 meters long, the 10 element is 1.2meters
[09:45] <eroomde> the spacing twix the elements is a function of other things
[09:45] <UpuWork2> I did consider 2 x 10 elements stacked
[09:45] <Randomskk> as eroomde just said and you might have missed, double the number of elements -> +3dB
[09:45] <UpuWork2> same gain in theory
[09:45] <Randomskk> so either 10el to 20el or stack two 10els
[09:45] <UpuWork2> yeah
[09:46] <eroomde> like boom material and geometry and elemt attachement method and end-efect compensation
[09:46] <Randomskk> but you can keep on stacking
[09:46] <UpuWork2> sorry ipv6 is having a wobble
[09:46] <Randomskk> 4, 12, 16 etc
[09:46] <eroomde> HME
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[09:46] <eroomde> eventually
[09:46] <gonzo_> adding elements to the length gives deminishing returns (pun?)
[09:46] <eroomde> it gives logarithmic returns infact :D
[09:47] <UpuWork2> http://i.imgur.com/q8PRr.jpg
[09:47] <UpuWork2> thats what fsphil is using
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[09:47] <gonzo_> stack/bay is a more manageable way, but care on the combining method
[09:47] <fsphil> spot the mistake
[09:47] <Randomskk> see above commet re: stacking looks cool
[09:47] <eroomde> http://www.sm2cew.com/la8yb_32yagis.jpg-for-web-large.jpg
[09:47] <eroomde> that's cusf's new setup
[09:47] <UpuWork2> thats just silly eroomde :)
[09:47] <Randomskk> fsphil: your yagis are not in the same orientation?
[09:47] <eroomde> sorry upu
[09:47] <Randomskk> or are they. hard to say
[09:47] <UpuWork2> you win antenna-peen
[09:47] <Randomskk> no, pretty sure they're not
[09:48] <Randomskk> they are mirrored about the middle :o
[09:48] <Randomskk> also it looks like you might be using rg58 for the feeder
[09:48] <eroomde> as in, opposing polarisations?
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[09:48] <Randomskk> eroomde: goodness. what the heck is that
[09:48] <fsphil> Randomskk: 10 points :)
[09:48] <eroomde> an EME rig
[09:49] <Randomskk> one hell of an eme rig
[09:49] <gonzo_> i thought that, they are anitphase
[09:49] <UpuWork2> the moon of which planet ?
[09:49] <fsphil> lol
[09:49] <eroomde> you can use rg58 as the feeder can you not?
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[09:49] <eroomde> it just depends on the matching box
[09:49] <Randomskk> you can, just rg58 is rubbish :P
[09:49] <Randomskk> losing 3dB in feeder makes stacking two yagis kinda pointless
[09:49] <gonzo_> rg58 is ok, if the lna is at the antenna
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[09:50] <gonzo_> the out of phace of the antennas is worrying though phil
[09:51] <gonzo_> they will cancel and you will get a null in the main direction, not a node
[09:51] <eroomde> here is a more modest EME rig
[09:51] <eroomde> http://www.sm2cew.com/sp7dcs_16_yagis.jpg-for-web-large.jpg
[09:51] <Randomskk> I dread to think what the 32 yagi one cost
[09:51] <Randomskk> insaaane.
[09:51] <UpuWork2> your definition of modest probably needs looking at
[09:51] <Randomskk> it's so huge.
[09:51] <eroomde> i get that a lot
[09:51] <Randomskk> that 16 antenna one seems more like what I'd shoot for for HABs
[09:52] <Randomskk> rotating the 32 yagi one would just be too slow
[09:52] <eroomde> it's all silly really
[09:52] <eroomde> if we could just go to 5ghz
[09:52] <Randomskk> there's 2GHz of amateur bandwidth at 248-250GHz
[09:52] <eroomde> we could get higher gain that that soviet early warning system eme thing with just a 2m sat dish
[09:52] <Randomskk> primary users
[09:53] <Randomskk> just, enjoy making a 250GHz radio
[09:53] <Randomskk> practically visible light
[09:53] <Randomskk> >_>
[09:53] <gonzo_> I have a light rx
[09:53] <Randomskk> I have two
[09:54] <eroomde> sure but building a 250GHz tx is probably not the kinda of thing we want people coming on the irc channel saying 'i followed ukhas.org.uk/wiki/mickey-mouse/spoon-feed/patronize.html but i can't make it work' and us having to help them
[09:54] <gonzo_> hehe
[09:54] <Randomskk> hah
[09:55] <craag> "I built my dipole antenna but I think I lost it in a crack in the desk."
[09:56] <eroomde> look at my 16 x 16 phased yagi arrau guys! i'll just snap a pic with my macro lens
[09:57] <Randomskk> could totally etch it on a silicon die
[09:57] <Randomskk> be cool
[09:57] <Randomskk> the pointing accuracy you'd need would be stupid though
[09:58] <eroomde> i think you would just use a dish...
[09:58] <eroomde> but yes same deal applies
[09:58] <eroomde> you've have a gain of 100s of dBs
[09:59] <eroomde> and a beam angle of 0
[09:59] <eroomde> about 70dB gain
[09:59] <eroomde> with a 2m dish
[09:59] <eroomde> 3dB beamwidth of 0.04 degrees
[09:59] <Randomskk> swinging would cause some serious fading
[09:59] <Randomskk> just from moving out of the beam
[09:59] <gonzo_> my optical rx has a telescopic rifle sight on and it straps to an old rifle stock to help aim it
[10:00] <gonzo_> get odd looks from people!
[10:00] <Randomskk> is it also your emergency cutdown?
[10:00] <Randomskk> :P
[10:00] <eroomde> i was thinking about an optical light tx from a balloon
[10:00] <eroomde> a superbright red led and a night flight
[10:00] <eroomde> a telescope and photodiode
[10:01] <eroomde> and some kind of spread spectrum flashing using the balloon as the reflector
[10:01] <gonzo_> the rx pickup and lna on mine is built on a 1.25" mount so will go into a scope if req
[10:02] <Randomskk> eroomde: would you light up the inside of the balloon or just illuminate the underside?
[10:02] <Randomskk> also really would you expect that much range?
[10:02] <gonzo_> have a 20W led cluster somewhere. 25chips on a substrate
[10:02] <Randomskk> the fspl for optical is a bit much
[10:03] <Randomskk> goes with square of the frequency, which is in the hundreds of terahertz...
[10:03] <eroomde> Randomskk: sure but the gain on the ground is huuuuuuge
[10:03] <eroomde> fspl is a dodgy metric
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[10:03] <gonzo_> and the RX is plentiful
[10:03] <eroomde> in that it's calculated as a function of the aperture of a wavelength at the receiver
[10:03] <Randomskk> it would definitely be fun to try
[10:03] <eroomde> or rather, how much energy a representative aperture would receive
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[10:04] <eroomde> no assuming an isotrpic radiator, as freq goes up, aperture gues down
[10:04] <eroomde> now assuming*
[10:04] <eroomde> goes*
[10:04] <eroomde> and so the amount of area collecting energy from the transmitter is reduced
[10:04] <eroomde> but that's sort of an academic point
[10:05] <eroomde> cos things like dishes or reflector mirrors are v large numbers of wavelengths in diameter
[10:05] <eroomde> millions of wavelengths in optical telescopes
[10:05] <eroomde> vs a dipole which might just be 0.5 wavelgnths
[10:06] <fsphil> I was going to fly a really bright LED doing rtty but realised there was nobody to receive it
[10:06] <eroomde> so basically, fspl is a silly metric that confuses people
[10:08] <fsphil> would need to float it over cambridge where most of the optical stuff seems to be happening
[10:09] <fsphil> they've been playing with UV LEDs recently
[10:09] <Randomskk> eroomde: ah, I see
[10:09] <eroomde> yes it's not gonna be a 500km tx technique
[10:09] <fsphil> they're getting quite a few km out of it
[10:09] <fsphil> but that's with gain on both sides
[10:10] <Randomskk> if only we had pointing lasers on the payloads and big telescopes on the ground.
[10:10] <eroomde> the best (tm) way to do it would be thus:
[10:10] <G0DJA> Not just in Cambridge... http://www.barry-chambers.staff.shef.ac.uk/laser_files/laser.htm
[10:10] <eroomde> launch a hab such that it is coated with LCDs
[10:10] <eroomde> btw i considered this as being cool for a cheap sattelite
[10:10] <eroomde> launch a hab coated with lcds
[10:10] <G7PMO_Kev_work> Hi all, I have added a step to http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker?&#sdr_software_installation, just wanted somebody to check that was ok?
[10:11] <fsphil> there's also Rob/M0DTS up north with a good optical setup
[10:11] <eroomde> it would be a coated bright white sphere of approximate sphere
[10:11] <eroomde> with lcds over the top
[10:11] <G7PMO_Kev_work> just done the install and found I had to add the plugin as it is no longer included in the dev builds...
[10:11] <G0DJA> Keeping the RX aligned to the balloon would be a 'challenge'
[10:11] <eroomde> and flicker the cds on and off so that, at night, but with the sat in the sun (1kW/m^2) it appears to be flashing on and off
[10:11] <eroomde> but is infact just reflecting well or reflecting badly
[10:12] <fsphil> shine a laser at that, and read the modulation of the reflection
[10:12] <eroomde> you'd probably get the equivalent of a 10s of wat flashing light on the sat
[10:12] <eroomde> watt*
[10:12] <fsphil> LCD over a retroreflector
[10:12] <eroomde> but fo free
[10:12] <eroomde> retroreflector would just reflect back at the sun
[10:13] <fsphil> for the laser from the ground I mean
[10:13] <eroomde> ah right
[10:13] <eroomde> i'm not sure ground lasers can track that well
[10:13] <fsphil> would solve the problem if aiming from the payload
[10:13] <eroomde> they usually just scan, like a barcode machine
[10:14] <fsphil> if/of
[10:15] <fsphil> lcds don't work too quicky in the cold though
[10:16] <Randomskk> I don't think they'd be very cold with that much sunlight
[10:16] <Randomskk> esp when black
[10:17] <eroomde> i'm not imagining mega fast
[10:17] <eroomde> maybe 10 baud
[10:17] <eroomde> could even use e-ink
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[10:19] <SpeedEvil> laser diode emitter is easier
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> you can filter to a fraction. of a nm.
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> and then filter again for a carrier
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> massive gains,
[10:20] <eroomde> but you need your sat to be pointing at gnd
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Nash
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> wide angle
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> omni
[10:22] <eroomde> words
[10:28] Nick change: UpuWork2 -> UpuWork
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[10:40] <UpuWork> ping RocketBoy
[10:46] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-229-156.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[11:03] <RocketBoy> yo
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[11:42] number10 (569e1af1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.158.26.241) joined #highaltitude.
[11:44] <craag> Is there some way for me to query habitat for the values in the last telemetry string to be uploaded?
[11:45] <craag> I'm looking to create a sort of 'status panel' with calculations for battery life remaining, etc.
[11:45] <Randomskk> yes
[11:46] <Randomskk> what language would you likely be using?
[11:46] <Randomskk> the best way is to chat to couchdb directly through its API
[11:46] <number10> oh - I wouldnt mind that - C
[11:46] <craag> Ok, I was thinking node or PHP, never used couchdb. I'll read up on it now.
[11:46] <Randomskk> haha it's not going to be much fun in C I'm afraid
[11:46] <Randomskk> PHP should be pretty easy
[11:46] <number10> lol
[11:46] <Randomskk> basically you hit a specific URL and parse the JSON response
[11:47] <craag> ^^ That's the kind of thing I was hoping for.
[11:47] <number10> I think I need to invest some time doing something other than C
[11:48] <Randomskk> may I recommend python
[11:48] <BrainDamage> if you're going to use python, if you have freedom of choice on db, I'd suggest sqlalchemy
[11:49] <number10> I have been on a basic python course - not really got round to using it yet
[11:49] <BrainDamage> it maps directly python classes to db entries
[11:49] <BrainDamage> and allows you to swap db backend easily
[11:49] <Randomskk> but don't use sqlalchemy for couchdb, that'd be highly silly
[11:49] <number10> my problem is haveing not done any OO
[11:49] <Randomskk> you don't need OO for python
[11:49] <Randomskk> happily
[11:49] <BrainDamage> oo is not "enforced" in python
[11:50] <number10> i didnt think so having not done any oo on the basic course I did
[11:50] <Randomskk> craag: I can't find any telemetry from CRAAG in the database right now
[11:50] <craag> Randomskk: It's not switched on at the moment.
[11:50] <Randomskk> craag: okay. well.
[11:51] <craag> Just at work on my lunch break, so thought I'd check this out.
[11:51] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/payload_telemetry/_view/payload_time?startkey=[%228285c24fabf8a73df8f7ec10c00c5f81%22,0]&limit=1&include_docs=true
[11:51] <Randomskk> to break that down
[11:51] <Randomskk> the startkey contains the document ID for the payload configuration you want
[11:52] <Randomskk> which is 5aa596c3bee39b1a612962778dc0f16e for the latest CRAAG1 document (you can get it from genpayload too)
[11:52] <Randomskk> limit=1 tells it to just give you the latest telemetry
[11:52] <Randomskk> (or maybe the oldest and you need to tell it to sort the other way, I can't remember off the top of my head...)
[11:52] <Randomskk> and include_docs=true tells it to fetch the document for you, so that it's in the response
[11:53] <Randomskk> you do need to check that the document you got back is from the payload you expect -- the startkey thing will give you the nearest it can find to the payload document ID you specified
[11:53] <Randomskk> so check the callsign is whatever you expected (or the payload ID, your choice)
[11:53] <craag> Perfect! Thanks.
[11:53] <Randomskk> but yea, essentially you hit that URL
[11:53] <Randomskk> and it gives you a JSON object
[11:53] <Randomskk> which you can load into PHP easily
[11:53] <Randomskk> and contains all the parsed data, the raw sentence, metadata, who received it, etc
[11:54] <Randomskk> for reference
[11:54] <Randomskk> http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/database/index.html
[11:55] <Randomskk> also http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/HTTP_view_API
[11:55] <craag> Yep, got those open already :) Cheers.
[11:55] <Randomskk> http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/habitat/habitat/habitat/habitat.views.payload_telemetry.html
[11:55] <Randomskk> no problem. shout if you run into any issues
[11:55] <craag> Will do, thanks a lot!
[11:58] <fsphil> couchdb in C isn't too bad
[11:58] <fsphil> libcurl and yajl are all you need
[11:59] <number10> I have this cunning plan fsphil
[11:59] <fsphil> a foxy plan?
[12:00] <number10> ... could you so me an example where it searches the DB for the latest ANU frame and strips out the lat long and alt ;)
[12:00] <number10> so==do
[12:00] <number10> hides
[12:01] <fsphil> lol
[12:02] <fsphil> can certainly do, it would be useful for antenna pointing too
[12:04] <Randomskk> yajl is good admittedly
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[12:39] <Randomskk> I have made sooo many graphs in the last few days
[12:39] <Randomskk> entirely lost track of what any of them mean
[12:39] <Randomskk> must be into the thousands of slightly different graphs
[12:40] signaleleven (~signalele@net-188-218-183-21.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) joined #highaltitude.
[12:44] <eroomde> yajl?
[12:45] <fsphil> "yet another json library"
[12:45] <fsphil> http://lloyd.github.com/yajl/
[12:45] <fsphil> but probably the nicest one
[12:46] <Randomskk> as nice as json in c gets really
[12:46] <Randomskk> though I did see a few nice looking ones recently
[12:46] <Randomskk> for embedded systems and the like
[12:47] <Randomskk> though using json in an embedded system strikes me a bad idea
[12:59] <eroomde> indeed
[12:59] <eroomde> well, really embedded where you're counting the bytes anyway
[12:59] <eroomde> but embedded nowadays seems to mean 'only about a 1ghz 32 bit processor'
[12:59] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
[12:59] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "[UKHAS] Re: New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
[12:59] <eroomde> and thus i am starting to sound like an old man
[13:00] <fsphil> I think that's microsoft's definition of embedded
[13:00] <eroomde> i think dan would be british, if given the choice
[13:01] <eroomde> conf is 22nd right?
[13:01] <eroomde> or whatever than saturday is
[13:01] <eroomde> that*
[13:01] <Randomskk> yes
[13:01] <eroomde> cool
[13:01] <eroomde> still lots of time to write the talk
[13:01] <Randomskk> my thoughts exactly
[13:01] <eroomde> this year's one will not be the night before this time
[13:01] <Randomskk> shit. I should get back to the amsat people
[13:02] <eroomde> oh yes me too
[13:02] <Randomskk> meh. my best talks are the night before. or sometimes on the day.
[13:02] <eroomde> dave asked if i wanted to do another talk
[13:02] <Randomskk> by "my best" I mean "all"
[13:02] <eroomde> i said that i don;t really think there is much more to say than last time
[13:02] <Randomskk> atm I'm not even sure if I'm going
[13:02] <Randomskk> but I could happily just redo my EMF talk
[13:02] <Randomskk> they'd also like to launch a pico
[13:02] <Randomskk> and guildford is much closer to london than milton keynes so I figure that's a great chance to really stir people up
[13:02] <eroomde> things have not progressed muchly in 2 or 3 years, from an of-interest-to-ham pov
[13:02] <Randomskk> bwim not launch
[13:03] <Randomskk> I mostly find this stuff has fairly broad appeal, even if you don't spend much time talking about ham stuff
[13:03] <Randomskk> but it is a pretty ham centric conference
[13:03] <eroomde> well indeed, but things have not really progressed much in the last 2 or 3 years fullstop, to an outsider
[13:03] <Randomskk> true
[13:04] <eroomde> we have more polished infrastructure but it's still 8 bit micros sending gps which is put on an internet map
[13:04] <Randomskk> pico launch could still be fun
[13:04] <eroomde> + chdk
[13:04] <Randomskk> hey hey. 32 bit
[13:04] <Randomskk> :p
[13:04] <eroomde> well, we were 32 bit all along
[13:04] <Randomskk> indeed
[13:04] <eroomde> but everyone else still does 8 bit
[13:04] <eroomde> the average number of bits flown is nearer 8 than 32
[13:04] <Randomskk> well we have a few days to get the phased array thing working and write a talk about it then
[13:04] <eroomde> more so than in 2009
[13:04] <eroomde> it was probably like 2x.x bits in 2009
[13:05] <eroomde> not more like 1x.x bits
[13:05] <eroomde> now*
[13:07] <eroomde> i agree a pico launch would be fun
[13:07] <eroomde> fo sho
[13:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
[13:09] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[13:10] <edmoore> Randomskk: on kraken (which i have irssi on except right now because of following problem) i try and run screen and it says
[13:10] <edmoore> Directory '/var/run/screen' must have mode 775.
[13:10] <edmoore> now, i personally have not been fiddling with anything
[13:10] <edmoore> but, i don;t want to dive in just incase someone else has
[13:10] <edmoore> hence asking u
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[13:13] <ed_> ah it's all gone pete tong
[13:14] #highaltitude: mode change '+o edmoore' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:15] #highaltitude: mode change '+o ed_' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:15] #highaltitude: mode change '-o ed_' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:18] <Randomskk> haha
[13:18] <Randomskk> ed: oh yea that was my fiddling yesterday when we had a shared screen thing to do multiuser
[13:18] <Randomskk> hang on
[13:18] <Randomskk> should be ok now
[13:19] <ed_> i can't find my old screen session
[13:19] <ed_> just this new one
[13:19] <ed_> tis the only one under screen -ls
[13:19] <ed_> but it says eroomde nick is in use
[13:20] <ed_> will give it 5 mins to timeout
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> Randomskk: once i tried to do shared screen session
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> but failed
[13:20] <ed_> just icnase
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> care to share your secrets
[13:20] <ed_> i once killed a man
[13:21] <Randomskk> cool story bro
[13:21] <ed_> this conf room tv is now totally my new macbook air 2nd monitor
[13:21] <ed_> it's amazing
[13:21] <Randomskk> MrScienceMan: setuid screen binary
[13:21] <Randomskk> then :multiuser on and :acladd otherperson
[13:21] <Randomskk> the setuid is part of the magic
[13:21] <MrScienceMan> mmm
[13:22] <ed_> tmux, a screen alternative, is apparently really quite a nice environment for pair programming
[13:22] <ed_> remotely
[13:22] <ed_> pair-watevering
[13:22] <Randomskk> I use tmux exclusively on my stuff now
[13:22] <Randomskk> ed_: spooning? https://bitbucket.org/spooning/
[13:22] <Randomskk> tmux has the big downside that all clients see the same window
[13:23] <Randomskk> in other words you can't connect to the same tmux session twice and view different windows in each connection
[13:23] <Randomskk> but on the plus side, much easier to google for
[13:23] <Randomskk> (really, what were the screen devs thinking)
[13:24] <ed_> that's one of those awesome hacker widget websites that doesn't actually tell you what on earth it is
[13:25] <ed_> tjere is more info on that front page about ho to order a t-shirt of the product than there is of the product itself
[13:25] <Randomskk> bitbucket? it's like github
[13:25] <ed_> no spooning
[13:25] <Randomskk> oh
[13:25] <Randomskk> you really have to watch the video
[13:25] <Randomskk> seriously
[13:25] <Randomskk> I appreciate you're at work
[13:25] <Randomskk> watch it later
[13:25] <Randomskk> it will all make a lot more sense
[13:26] <ed_> terry nutkins has died
[13:30] <Randomskk> guh. why would you email to ask someone if they've thought about your job offer?
[13:30] <Randomskk> email
[13:33] <ed_> email back 'no'
[13:34] <Randomskk> hah
[13:47] <ed_> waiting will only make them likely offer you a higher starting salary and maybe a welcome bonus anyway
[13:47] <ed_> so have some fun
[13:47] <ed_> or just say 'well it's not as much as [arch rival competitor]'
[13:49] <Randomskk> it's mostly just that I'll be in the office with them on monday anyway
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[13:59] Nick change: ed_ -> eroomde
[13:59] <griffonbot> Received email: tiouk.com "Re: [UKHAS] Re: New stable dl-fldigi available, please upgrade!"
[13:59] <eroomde> ghost is a useful command
[13:59] <eroomde> now i'm like sauron
[13:59] <eroomde> got my body back
[14:01] <Randomskk> or voldemort
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[14:09] <costyn> Randomskk: you're using the new dl-fldigi on mac right?
[14:09] <costyn> Randomskk: I'm getting a huge fat crashlog on startup
[14:10] <Randomskk> costyn: did you download the .dmg or the .zip
[14:10] <Randomskk> and what version of OS X are you running
[14:10] <costyn> Randomskk: the dmg
[14:10] <costyn> and 10.7.4
[14:10] <Randomskk> okay
[14:10] <Randomskk> so basically
[14:10] <Randomskk> read that part of the email really carefully
[14:11] <Randomskk> and take consolation in the fact that you're the second person today to do the same thing, so it is probably my badly worded email
[14:11] <costyn> derp
[14:11] <Randomskk> that's what he said too
[14:12] <Randomskk> the 10.5.8 is jcoxon's build thing and doesn't seem to work on lion or possibly even 10.6, not sure
[14:12] <costyn> Randomskk: whee... it works :)
[14:12] <Randomskk> the .zip contains the build I set up which statically links every single sodding library
[14:12] <Randomskk> and is built on lion and tested on snow leopard and mountain lion too
[14:12] <Randomskk> great
[14:12] <daveake> Do I detect a sore subject?
[14:12] <Randomskk> glad to hear it :P
[14:12] <costyn> Randomskk: good stuff
[14:12] <Randomskk> daveake: haha I hate OS X and its shitty awful build crap
[14:12] <Randomskk> took me an entire day
[14:12] <daveake> :(
[14:12] <costyn> Randomskk: I totally appreciate your effort! Thank you
[14:13] <daveake> +1
[14:13] <Randomskk> the windows build can only be compiled on linux, which I find more amusing
[14:13] <daveake> lol
[14:13] <costyn> indeed upvotes for Randomskk
[14:13] <Randomskk> oh all I did was faff with libraries though, honestly all the code is jcoxon/daniel
[14:13] <costyn> that is funny
[14:13] <Randomskk> daniel is also responsible for the windows builds and the linux ones, so yea
[14:13] <Randomskk> but, my laptop is running lion, so I needed a working lion build :P
[14:14] <eroomde> Randomskk: do you have mountain lion?
[14:14] <Randomskk> no
[14:14] <Randomskk> but it has been tested on that and apparently works
[14:14] <eroomde> ok
[14:15] <eroomde> i'm unsure if i want to upgrade
[14:15] <Randomskk> I don't really see any reason to upgrade at the moment
[14:15] <Randomskk> yea
[14:15] <Randomskk> nothing in it really appeals
[14:15] <Randomskk> maybe if I used my mac for more than chrome and iterm
[14:15] <costyn> Randomskk: I read the email this morning, then later today I opened it again and clicked on the first mac osx link I saw without remembering that there were 2 versions (which I had read about); so hence my blunder :)
[14:15] <Randomskk> costyn: hehe yea
[14:15] <Randomskk> I should probably have made the .zip a .dmg or something
[14:15] <costyn> i see no reasons to upgrade either
[14:15] <Randomskk> or hidden the 10.5.8 far away, I don't know that many people will need it
[14:16] <costyn> 10.5 is leopard right?
[14:16] <Randomskk> think so yea
[14:16] <Randomskk> incidentally my build only works on intel macs
[14:16] <Randomskk> but yea...
[14:17] <costyn> i should hope no one tries it on ppc... my 4 year old core 2 duo macbook already has a tough time with the software modem bit
[14:17] <Randomskk> hehe
[14:18] <Randomskk> yea my macbook air is not fantastic but just about manages
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[14:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:19] Action: costyn waves at Lunar_Lander
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[14:21] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[14:22] <costyn> http://i.imgur.com/WYeZu.gif <-- Randomskk building the Mac OS X dl-fldigi
[14:22] <costyn> that gif always cracks me up
[14:22] <Randomskk> pretty much accurate
[14:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:22] <Randomskk> might save that for use on saturday when five flights go up and I'm manning the battlestations
[14:23] <costyn> Randomskk: :D
[14:23] <costyn> we regularly reference that gif at work when trying to fix VPNs and other such networking voodoo
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:24] <eroomde> nice photo of a test firet at work
[14:24] <eroomde> http://www.spacefoto.co.uk/space-industry/westcott-rocket-testing/
[14:25] <Randomskk> :D
[14:25] <costyn> eroomde: nice
[14:27] <Randomskk> http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?258-Night-flying-TSII-with-300W-leds-headlight
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[14:29] <costyn> Randomskk: geez... I wish I had that much free time :)
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[14:32] <costyn> FOV RC is really freaking cool
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[14:44] <gonzo_> anyone know if there are probs with the notam/airspace tab on the predictor site?
[14:44] <Randomskk> yes
[14:44] <Randomskk> the notam interface api thing broke
[14:44] <Randomskk> so predictor doesn't do it right now
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[14:45] <gonzo_> ta, not just me being daft them.
[14:46] <gonzo_> will get the aviation maps out later
[14:46] <Randomskk> the notam website itself should still work I think
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[14:49] <gonzo_> you have the url to hand?
[14:51] <Randomskk> nope sorry. notaminfo or something
[14:51] <G7PMO_Kev_work> Hi, Im setting up SDR on XP, but I cant seem to listen to the audio as well as direct it to dl-fldigi?
[14:52] <G7PMO_Kev_work> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker?&#sdr_software_installation says tick 'listen to this device' in Control Panel ’ Sound ’ Recording.
[14:52] <G7PMO_Kev_work> but that option doesnt exist in xp
[14:52] <G7PMO_Kev_work> anyone know a way around that?
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, there are 5 launches tomorrow?
[14:54] <Randomskk> something insane like that, yes
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:54] <Randomskk> four from elsworth and another on the continent ;)
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> I was told 4 yesterday
[14:55] <UpuWork> G7PMO_Kev_work Virtual Audio Cable
[14:56] <G7PMO_Kev_work> UPU - yea, I have that installed, and use it to link sdr to fldigi, but I cant listen to whats on that 'virtual cable' out the speakers so I can hear the RTTY
[14:57] <G7PMO_Kev_work> Thats what the "Listen to This Device" option in Win7 gives you, but it isnt in xp?
[14:58] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, where on the continent?
[14:58] <Randomskk> slovakia actually
[14:59] <Randomskk> so might not interfere radio-wis
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah that one
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:59] <Randomskk> but will certainly help test habitat
[15:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:02] <Laurenceb> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HnkoHbTH7LQ/T2evo5BYZ1I/AAAAAAAAACM/UggCyzqXmME/s1600/meetJustin.jpg
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[15:15] <DrLuke> It's ok, I didn't plan to sleep the entire next week anyways
[15:24] <Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Consciousness_Project
[15:24] <Laurenceb> pmsl
[15:28] <MrScienceMan> how can RNG be influnced by events such as the world cup ?
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[15:33] <craag> Sounds like a challenging field to work in. As soon as you come up with anything, you would immediately get the rest of the scientific world going against you!
[15:34] <kokey> cool, got my canon G12
[15:35] <kokey> totally not planning to put that into any payload
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[15:36] <Gadget-Mac> 5 launches tomorrow ?
[15:36] <kokey> 5 launches tomorrow?
[15:37] <kokey> will take my scanner along to leicestershire this weekend then
[15:37] <Gadget-Mac> Hmmm. Whats the quickest way to make some 70cm antenna's
[15:37] <EarthBreeze> Test
[15:37] <kokey> hi EarthBreeze
[15:37] <craag> Gadget-Mac: A dipole on the back of a BNC socket!
[15:38] <EarthBreeze> Hi Kokey
[15:38] <BrainDamage> a wooden stick and tie a wire to it
[15:38] <Gadget-Mac> Sounds like a plan cragg
[15:38] <BrainDamage> and the connector, ye
[15:38] <BrainDamage> wooden stick only as support frame
[15:38] <BrainDamage> you could use a broom handle :p
[15:39] <Gadget-Mac> 70cms' slim jim from a coat hange ?
[15:39] <craag> Like this (barely visible blue wire): https://www.thecraag.com/File:HAB_Tracking_Antennas_20thMay12.jpg
[15:39] <BrainDamage> ( the epsilon_r of wood will distort the antenna behaviour slightly, but hopfully not too much )
[15:39] <EarthBreeze> I'll be back in a bit.
[15:41] <craag> And then on a fibreglass pole: https://www.thecraag.com/File:HAB_tracking_dipole_on_fibreglass_pole.JPG
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[15:43] <Gadget-Mac> Fibreglass pole would be good :)
[15:46] <craag> Makes for v easy HF antennas, and my current HAB setup is a robbin-cable slim-jim that I tape to the top of it.
[15:46] <craag> *ribbon-calbe
[15:47] <craag> *ribbon-cable
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[15:53] Nick change: ed_ -> edmoore
[15:53] <edmoore> 775 /var/run/screen issue not fixed Randomskk
[15:54] <edmoore> like i say i don't want to charge in to kraken with a machete if you've been carefully configuring things yourself
[15:55] <edmoore> but would be nice if there's a simple solution :)
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[15:59] <Gadget-Mac> craag: neat
[15:59] <Randomskk> edmoore: try now
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[16:00] <Gadget-Mac> Just remembered I've got some have gauge copper wire somewhere :)
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[16:02] <eroomde> much better thank you aziz
[16:02] <Randomskk> np
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[16:23] <eroomde> sloooooow bus
[16:23] <eroomde> but bus with wifi
[16:23] <eroomde> swings and roundabouts
[16:26] <Lunar_Lander> WOW STAR TREK on Google!
[16:27] <eroomde> this is exciting?
[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD the G with Spock ears
[16:29] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:33] <Gadget-Mac> Lunar_Lander: have you played the whole doodle ?
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> oh it's interactive?
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> I got noscript on
[16:33] <Gadget-Mac> Oh yes, very interactive :)
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[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> oh there is a aggressive guy on the planet!
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> yay he's down xD
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD the e is dirty
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[16:36] Action: Gadget-Mac will be antenna building tonight :)
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the info Gadget-Mac
[16:38] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: what kind of antenna?
[16:39] <Gadget-Mac> slim jim, got so heavy gauge copper wire :)
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[16:44] <eroomde> nice
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[16:45] <EarthBreeze> I'm Back
[16:45] <Laurenceb> Póg mo thóin
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[16:50] <eroomde> coffee crash
[16:50] <eroomde> i'm beginning to hate the stuff
[16:50] <Gadget-Mac> Looks like 15mm copper pipe will give the right sort of bend radius :)
[16:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: clearly get off coffee
[16:51] <Randomskk> I can work through the night and stay up the next day without a drop
[16:51] <Randomskk> mainly because I almost never drink it :P
[16:51] <Gadget-Mac> Wonder if I can mount a USB dongle and slimjim in some plastic pipe ?
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[16:55] <Gadget-Mac> Hmm, where to find caps to go over the end of pvc pipe
[16:57] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: almost any hardware shop
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[17:01] <EarthBreeze> dead on arrival he he he
[17:03] <eroomde> ?
[17:03] <EarthBreeze> kc9doa, dea on rrival,,
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[17:09] <kc9doa> So when is the launch scheduled?
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[17:15] Nick change: lordclaypool -> arko
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[17:38] <DRAMA> someone know about rockets here?
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[17:53] <SpeedEvil> some are interested.
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> some even work in that field professionally.
[18:00] <DRAMA> SpeedEvil how u calculate distance x consume of a rocket?
[18:01] <DRAMA> do u know something about?
[18:02] <DRAMA> or know someone?
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[18:04] <SpeedEvil> it's a fairly wide field.
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> from water rockets to antimatter catalysed fusion drives.
[18:05] <DRAMA> true
[18:05] <DRAMA> avionic engines
[18:06] <DRAMA> more especify
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> rocket engines are not really used in aviation
[18:06] <DRAMA> no
[18:07] <BrainDamage> well, there's rocket assisted takeoff, but it's a niche field
[18:07] <bertrik> makes awesome youtube videos though :)
[18:07] <DRAMA> but i want to undertand about rate of fuel burn
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> indeed. and armaments on aircraft.
[18:08] <DRAMA> no armaments
[18:08] <DRAMA> just rate of burn of fuel system
[18:08] <DRAMA> to avionic engine systems
[18:10] <BrainDamage> it'll highly depend on the engine size and type, most commercial airlines mount turbofans which are rather efficient relative to others, I guess you could google for a normal airplane used in commercial flights like a 747
[18:11] <DRAMA> tks
[18:11] <DRAMA> :)
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> rockets would use hundreds, if not thousands of times what a high bypass engine does
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> of fuel
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[18:15] <MrScienceMan> has anyone here done work with cubesats?
[18:15] <Randomskk> haha
[18:15] <Randomskk> only work I regret
[18:15] <Randomskk> but let's pretend I haven't
[18:16] <MrScienceMan> regret, why?
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I've done a design proposal that spec'ed a cubesat out
[18:16] <Randomskk> oh it was a huge waste of time and faff and effort and went nowhere and I'm bitter about it
[18:16] <Randomskk> also it was silly from the get go and I knew that
[18:16] <Randomskk> similarly to Dan-K2VOL it was a design proposal
[18:17] <Randomskk> so yes let's just pretend it never happened
[18:17] <MrScienceMan> what was the timeframe ?
[18:17] <Randomskk> shrug. some months
[18:17] <Randomskk> wasn't working on it full time or anything
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> they are basically available off the shelf if you need them quickly
[18:17] <MrScienceMan> i have a similiar project that is coming up
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> and have tons of money
[18:18] <MrScienceMan> however i feel the experience will be painful
[18:18] <MrScienceMan> offtheshell, no
[18:18] <MrScienceMan> i want to buuld one
[18:18] <MrScienceMan> whats the point if i buy it off the shelf
[18:19] <MrScienceMan> Randomskk: i wouldn't mind hearing why it was silly
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[18:23] <Randomskk> MrScienceMan: I don't know that it'd be very applicable. mostly I figured from the start it'd never get off the ground
[18:23] <MrScienc1Man> re
[18:23] <DrLuke> http://i45.tinypic.com/34gvg9w.png
[18:23] <MrScienc1Man> my wifi broke
[18:23] <DrLuke> I am kind of confused that the 5-(diamtere)0.06 means
[18:23] <DrLuke> andybody got an idea?
[18:24] <MrScienc1Man> Randomskk: was it just hte cubesat or the launch vechicle as well?
[18:24] MrScienceMan (~zo@46.47.80.192) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[18:24] Nick change: MrScienc1Man -> MrScienceMan
[18:24] <Randomskk> DrLuke: it means there are five holes
[18:24] <Randomskk> each of diameter 0.06
[18:25] <DrLuke> ooooh
[18:25] <DrLuke> thanks :)
[18:25] <Randomskk> MrScienceMan: the mission really
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[18:27] <MrScienceMan> Randomskk: perhaps you can suggest something for a cubesat
[18:27] <MrScienceMan> a feature
[18:27] <MrScienceMan> some interactivity, between the cubesat and people on the ground
[18:28] <Randomskk> see eroomde's discussion a bit earlier this afternoon about LCDs
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> lasers are easier.
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[18:32] <jcoxon> evening al
[18:32] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[18:32] <jcoxon> all*
[18:32] <Randomskk> hi
[18:32] <UpuHome> evening jcoxon
[18:32] <navrac2> evening
[18:32] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
[18:32] <MrScienceMan> SpeedEvil: lasers from the ground?
[18:32] <MrScienceMan> or the sat shining a lazer down ?
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[18:45] <DrLuke> both
[18:45] <DrLuke> sounds like a really interesting idea
[18:46] <DrLuke> MrScienceMan: How does one get to work on a cubesat? I've been seeing more and more cubesat projects
[18:46] <DrLuke> I perceive a cubesat as the ultimate HAB
[18:46] <Randomskk> really? that's a bit "sky's the limit"
[18:46] <Darkside> they're interesting to work on
[18:47] <Randomskk> space exists beyond low earth orbit
[18:47] <Darkside> i got lucky, my supervisor tapped me on the shoulder to work on one
[18:47] <DrLuke> that's not how I meant it
[18:47] <DrLuke> it's more like, you as an amatuer won't get beyond LEO easily
[18:47] <Randomskk> I think you will struggle to get to LEO by yourself too :P
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[18:47] <DrLuke> I mean, getting a project into LEO itself isn't really amateur anymore
[18:47] <DrLuke> yeah
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[18:48] <DrLuke> so I think that in today's standard a cubesat is really the nonplusultra as far as hobbyists go
[18:48] <Randomskk> the thing is making a cubesat isn't hugely more hard than making a HAB payload, though you'd probably want a good bit more testing
[18:48] <DrLuke> who knows, maybe in 500 or so years 6 years old children will build cubesats instead of painting in preschool :)
[18:48] <Randomskk> and you might spend a lot more time thinking hard about things like thermal management
[18:49] <Randomskk> and power budgets
[18:49] <DrLuke> you also need to consider radiation
[18:49] <Randomskk> but, getting it launched into space is hugely hard.
[18:49] <MrScienceMan> well
[18:49] <DrLuke> it can really fry your ICs
[18:49] <Randomskk> meh, you could think about radiation, but to be honest a lot of people don't. low earth orbit mostly ain't so bad.
[18:49] <MrScienceMan> apperantly, some people have got a spot for a cubesat on some rocket
[18:49] <MrScienceMan> and they are looking for help
[18:49] <Darkside> Randomskk: you're right about that
[18:49] <Darkside> its usually not that bad in LEO
[18:49] <DrLuke> usually
[18:49] <Darkside> a bit of aluminium shielding does help tho
[18:50] <DrLuke> then a solar storm comes and you have orbiting toast
[18:50] <Randomskk> "usually" is about the lifetime of your LEO cubesat anyway
[18:50] <DrLuke> true
[18:50] <Darkside> DrLuke: yeah, bit its very hard to protect against that
[18:50] <Darkside> and for a cubesat, its usually not worth it
[18:50] <DrLuke> true
[18:50] <DrLuke> I should query my university
[18:50] <Darkside> for UKube-1 we weren't allowed to use rad-hardened components at all
[18:50] <Darkside> want to know the micro we used on our payload?
[18:50] <Darkside> an atmega2560.
[18:51] <DrLuke> you worked on a cubesat?
[18:51] <Darkside> on a payload that went in one, yes
[18:51] <DrLuke> cool!
[18:51] <Darkside> one payload amongst many
[18:51] <Randomskk> Darkside: has/did that ever launch/work?
[18:51] <MrScienceMan> Darkside: what was the payload
[18:51] <Darkside> Randomskk: feb
[18:51] <Randomskk> lol
[18:51] <Randomskk> sure
[18:51] <Darkside> took them long enough
[18:51] <Randomskk> space time is worse than hab time
[18:51] <DrLuke> does it have a camera on board?
[18:51] <Darkside> the launch is apparently booked in
[18:51] <Randomskk> uh huh
[18:52] <Randomskk> I'll believe it when it's in orbit
[18:52] <Darkside> Randomskk: yeah,i don;t tryst clyde space either
[18:52] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: dual-freq gps receiver, for in-orbit TEC measurements
[18:52] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: thanks for the pointer, no idea if we've got a decent hardware store nearby
[18:52] <Darkside> DrLuke: i think there is a camera on one of the other paylods
[18:52] <DrLuke> that's what I would put on my cubesat
[18:52] <Darkside> but its a testbed for some new CMOS tech or something, not for takign pretty pictures
[18:52] <DrLuke> and then give people access to it to toy around with it
[18:52] <DrLuke> so everybody can be a space scientist for a day
[18:53] <Darkside> DrLuke: been done :P
[18:53] <Darkside> one of the payloads on UKube-1 has that kind of aim
[18:53] <DrLuke> well, I only know of those kickstarter projects where you have to absurdly pay 8000$ for a week of access
[18:53] <Darkside> i doubt it'll work well, i'm a bit concerned about the downlink capabilities of this sat
[18:53] <Darkside> supposedly there aren't many ground stations for it
[18:54] <MrScienceMan> from what little research I did
[18:54] <Darkside> theres meant to be this amateur sat ground network starting up
[18:54] <MrScienceMan> it will only be visible for less than 10 minutes
[18:54] <Darkside> but i dont think theyve gotten far yet
[18:54] <MrScienceMan> more like 5-6
[18:54] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: something like that, yeah
[18:54] <DrLuke> I wonder if you could tether together 2 cubesats to create an antenna or something
[18:54] <DrLuke> a 10m antenna
[18:54] <MrScienceMan> thats not a lot of time to get pictures downlinked
[18:54] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: 1mbit downlink supposedly
[18:54] <Darkside> and 9600 baud as backup
[18:54] <Darkside> and yeah, thats my point
[18:55] <MrScienceMan> what fequency?
[18:55] <MrScienceMan> frequency*
[18:55] <Darkside> s-band
[18:55] <Darkside> 2401MHz iirc
[18:55] <Darkside> and the 9600 baud downlink is on 2m
[18:56] <Darkside> again, i have my doubts on the s-band downlink
[18:56] <MrScienceMan> doubts?
[18:57] <Darkside> well
[18:57] <Darkside> apparnetly in testing it hasn't been working very well
[18:58] <Darkside> so they may have to fall-back to the VHF downlink
[19:07] <MrScienceMan> im thinking of making it so that I can bounce a signal of the satelite
[19:07] <MrScienceMan> and send messages over large distance
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[19:08] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: just make it an APRS digipeater
[19:08] <Darkside> there's already a few of those in orbit
[19:08] <Darkside> well. one that works *well*
[19:09] <Darkside> and a few that kind of work, as those cubesats have long past their operational lifetimes
[19:10] <MrScienceMan> ah thats an excellent idea
[19:12] <MrScienceMan> im also thinking of someway to make it visible in the night sky
[19:12] <MrScienceMan> still not sure how feasable that is
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[19:22] <griffonbot> @daveake: Got a mention in September's BBC Focus magazine. Apparently my @Raspberry_Pi weather balloon tracker was in a "PiLoad" ... ho ho ho! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/244153769829474304]
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:24] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> got a question if that is OK
[19:25] <Upu> sure shoot
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> OK I talked about that step up thing to get 5V
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> but I'd also need 3.3V behind that
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> shall I use a potential divider or a regulator
[19:25] <Upu> regulator
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:25] <Upu> but remind me again why you need a step up ?
[19:26] <Randomskk> you shouldn't ever use a potential divider to create a power supply
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to make a lipoly powered arduino
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:26] <Randomskk> because drawing current through the divider quickly changes the voltage
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:26] <Upu> run a small low drop (has to be low) reg and feed in 5v from the Arduino
[19:27] <Upu> or just do the right thing and use a 3.3v Arduino :P
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> no, I got one
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> but that one is a challenge you know
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> making one on perfboard and so on
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> just for fun/education
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> not for flight
[19:27] <Upu> I use a small LDO on the Arduino GPS board to power the GPS chip
[19:27] <Randomskk> a well-attended launch: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104531517022622507451/posts/bFJDWYkX8mJ
[19:27] <DrLuke> lunar: you want to get 3.3V out of a single lipo?
[19:27] <DrLuke> a single-cell?
[19:27] <DrLuke> then use a step down converter
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> the idea is to run the chip with 5 V
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> lipoly gives 3.7V and the stepup gives 5V
[19:28] <Randomskk> be sure to watch the vide to get an idea of the ridiculous crowd :3
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> but the arduino has a 5V pin and a 3.3V pin
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and arduino has a extra regulator for the latter
[19:28] <DrLuke> just be careful when you interface 3.3V devices then, they most of the time are not 5V compatible
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:29] <DrLuke> so why do you want to run it on 5V now?
[19:29] <daveake> Run the processor at 3V3. The end.
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> cause I want to make a arduino uno clone
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:31] <DrLuke> make a 3.3V uno clone
[19:33] <tioukcom> DrLuke: Excuse me butting in, is it 'absurd' to pay that amount so school children can get time on Ardusat
[19:33] <DrLuke> I think 8000$ is a high price
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> hm ok
[19:34] <tioukcom> but if it gets an orbit and students get time?
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[19:35] <DrLuke> tioukcom: that was 8000$ (or some other high price, don't nail me on it) for just a WEEK
[19:35] <DrLuke> not for the entire thing
[19:36] <DrLuke> oh, it was 800$
[19:36] <DrLuke> still a high price imho
[19:36] <Randomskk> $800 seems way more reasonable
[19:37] <tioukcom> If you had some time, what would you do?
[19:38] <DrLuke> build my own sat
[19:38] <DrLuke> :)
[19:39] <tioukcom> Start saving, I hear it costs $100K
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[19:41] <DrLuke> that's why you usually get funded by a company
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[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrQLIekDOg
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[19:53] <tioukcom> Maybe you need to work on a pocketQub
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[19:59] <Randomskk> welp
[20:00] <Randomskk> my google calendar has all five of tomorrow's launches on it now
[20:00] <Randomskk> good stuff
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[20:01] <fsphil> they all come along at once
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[20:01] <Randomskk> this should certainly put habitat through its paces. hehe.
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[20:29] <Upu> evening radim_OM2AMR
[20:30] <radim_OM2AMR> evening Upu
[20:30] <Upu> all ready for tomorrow ?
[20:31] <radim_OM2AMR> yes, we are on place
[20:31] <Upu> can you tell me the launch coords (again?) so I can set the live predictor for you
[20:31] <Upu> and whats your estimated burst
[20:31] <radim_OM2AMR> did you setup tracker prediktor please ?
[20:31] <Upu> ?
[20:31] <Upu> see above :)
[20:31] <radim_OM2AMR> o yes, second
[20:32] <radim_OM2AMR> 48.7051/17.8438 , ascent 5.75, burst 35177, descent 5
[20:33] <Upu> cheers
[20:33] <radim_OM2AMR> many thanks Upu for your assistance and for possibility to use UKHAS tracker
[20:34] <Upu> hey don't thank me
[20:34] <Upu> thank the team who look after it
[20:34] <radim_OM2AMR> ok, so I would like to say big thank you to all the team :-)
[20:34] <Upu> I'm just the caretaker :)
[20:35] <Upu> janitor.. :)
[20:35] <radim_OM2AMR> that's very important role
[20:36] <Upu> as you're up first I'll set the live prediction for you
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello radim_OM2AMR
[20:36] <radim_OM2AMR> thank you Upu again !
[20:37] <Upu> no problems good luck tomorrow
[20:37] <radim_OM2AMR> hi Lunar_Lander, so it's here& big day tomorow
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[20:37] <Upu> btw radim_OM2AMR
[20:37] <Upu> I noticed SP9UOB on the map
[20:37] <Upu> should be able to receive you from there
[20:37] <Upu> so you may have additional listeners
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[20:38] <Randomskk> lol look at upu go. all casual like "oh I noticed you are launching from central europe, I should have no problem picking you up"
[20:38] <radim_OM2AMR> Oh, great, we will have additional listeners here in Slovakia I hope ;-)
[20:38] <Randomskk> "next time why not try giving me a challenge? maybe australia?"
[20:38] <Upu> haha
[20:38] <Randomskk> "HAHA ONLY JOKING THE WHOLE PLANET IS MY ANTENNA"
[20:38] <Randomskk> ^ in a few years
[20:38] <Upu> I doubt I'll get getting that one Randomskk :)
[20:38] <Upu> not unless I move to the top of Scar Fel
[20:38] <Randomskk> haha
[20:38] <Randomskk> would be amazing though
[20:38] <Randomskk> you can use the earth as an antenna for ELF
[20:38] <Randomskk> pretty cool
[20:39] <Upu> lol
[20:39] <Upu> well we will need some new radio modules
[20:39] <Randomskk> haha to say the least
[20:39] <Randomskk> ELF transmitters are pretty intense
[20:39] <radim_OM2AMR> It seems our launch will be great ham event here in Slovakia
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[20:40] <radim_OM2AMR> we have shortwave antennas too, great evening...
[20:40] <Upu> shame you weren't about for the Apex Alpha Incident :)
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[21:01] <Laurenceb_> Launch-O-Thon 2012
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> rofl
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[21:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:05] <Darkside> jcoxon: yo
[21:05] <jcoxon> hey
[21:05] <Darkside> had a chance to get my code going?
[21:05] <jcoxon> not yet
[21:05] <jcoxon> been at work all day
[21:05] <Darkside> ok
[21:05] <daveake> I'm looking forward to a dry launch for a change. Into a blue sky for once.
[21:06] <jcoxon> going to be a last min job i think
[21:06] <Darkside> jcoxon: heh
[21:06] <Darkside> it should run right off the bat
[21:06] <Darkside> learning how to drive it could be fun
[21:06] <jcoxon> got to construct the hardware
[21:06] <Darkside> ahh ok
[21:18] <Upu> getting it to TX is PITA
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[21:24] <Laurenceb_> what you talking about?
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[21:24] <Laurenceb_> tx from gnd?
[21:24] <jcoxon> rfm22b
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> ah
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 8 2012