highaltitude.log.20120901

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[06:34] <nosebleedkt> hi everybody
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[07:00] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Sunday 2nd September"
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[08:18] <fsphil> http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/boy-science-project-alarms-n-h-resident-184759156.html
[08:19] <fsphil> the habhub predictor gets a brief scene
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[08:19] <daveake> lol
[08:21] <daveake> Good job. Buit what an enoooormous box!
[08:23] <fsphil> huge balloon too
[08:24] <daveake> yup
[08:24] <fsphil> his videos are at http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWaldorfKid/videos
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[08:25] <fsphil> find me spot locator
[08:26] <x-f> habhub predictor
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[08:28] <daveake> lol at the police call
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[08:33] <nosebleedkt_> i changed server
[08:33] <nosebleedkt_> lets see now
[08:33] <radim_OM2AMR> :-) NASA label
[08:34] <nosebleedkt_> more nasa !
[08:35] <radim_OM2AMR> nasa everywhere :lol:
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[08:50] <fsphil> EMF camp on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19441861
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[09:48] <Upu> Is Lumia the balloon at EMF ?
[09:51] <fsphil> it's in the right place
[09:52] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement - Sunday 2nd September"
[09:53] <fsphil> a windows phone.. this should go well
[10:02] <Upu> well could be worse, "Cannot launch libncurses not found" or similar
[10:05] <Upu> predictor has it landing (assuming 15km burst) 1km from Gatwick
[10:05] <fsphil> my memories of windows phones are from WinCE devices. I swore never to use it again :)
[10:07] <fsphil> those predictions are annoyingly close to london anyway
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[10:11] <costyn> morning
[10:11] <fsphil> mornin costyn
[10:11] <costyn> what's the field 'Data connection' for on LUMIA. Is that a GSM device or so?
[10:12] <costyn> the email says the payload name is JOEY
[10:12] <fsphil> yea, it's a phone
[10:12] <costyn> oh
[10:12] <fsphil> not sure which is launching
[10:13] <fsphil> lumia could just be for demonstration at the event
[10:14] <costyn> lumia might be a piggyback payload?
[10:14] <fsphil> it's a really small balloon, unless they're doing two
[10:14] <jonsowman> the Lumia is a Lumia 800
[10:15] <fsphil> are you at the camp jonsowman?
[10:15] <jonsowman> it's not flying though, so I imagine it's a demo
[10:15] <jonsowman> no I'm not
[10:15] <jonsowman> a friend inconsiderately decided to get married this weekend
[10:15] <fsphil> they did that on purpose
[10:15] <jonsowman> mm I know
[10:15] <fsphil> it does look like fun though
[10:16] <jonsowman> very much so
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[11:22] <hix> hi guys. Just set up my new laptop with ubuntu. Any recommendations as to an arduino compatible IDE? There seem to be a few GNU based ones so unsure
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[11:32] <MrScienceMan> arduino's ide works on linux
[11:32] <MrScienceMan> or your setup with eclipse
[11:32] <MrScienceMan> http://arduino.cc/playground/Code/Eclipse
[11:33] <SamSilver> ? or fact MrScienceMan ?
[11:33] <MrScienceMan> ?
[11:40] <hix> I'm not that keen on the Arduino IDE. It doesn’t seem that helpful. I'm looking for an alternative. Will look at Eclipse cheers MrScienceMan
[11:41] <cuddykid> arduino IDE is atrocious
[11:41] <hix> yup
[11:41] <MrScienceMan> some of the shortcuts
[11:41] <MrScienceMan> are insane
[11:42] <hix> youd think the way they market Arduino that they would have made an IDE that was in some way informative. It's useless until you compile code - right at the end
[11:43] <MrScienceMan> their ide also does some preprocessing before the code is fed to the compiler
[11:44] <MrScienceMan> never liked how they try to shield people from C
[11:44] <hix> what i mean is that there are no tips or error highlighting on the way
[11:45] <MrScienceMan> its not a full IDE :)
[11:45] <costyn> mostly a frontend to avrdude
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[11:46] <MrScienceMan> i need to start using IDEs more
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[11:48] <hix> is Code::Blocks any good? one of the initial appeals is it is common across platforms
[11:48] <pinski1> Omg high altitude talk at EMF
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[11:49] <hix> I remember a friend talking about mono - any opinions on that?
[11:51] <BrainDamage> hix: I've used a bit in the past, it's not too bad
[11:51] <hix> mono?
[11:51] <BrainDamage> codeblocks
[11:51] <hix> ahh
[11:52] <BrainDamage> mono, I think you mean monodevelop, mono itself is .net opensource equivalent
[11:53] <hix> that sounds about right
[11:54] <hix> got to say I'm very impressed with my new laptop
[11:54] <hix> Lenovo X201
[11:55] <hix> its nicely portable but pretty well specced and the keyboard is excellent for such a compact unit
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[12:03] <DanielRichman> hix: do you have your avr compiler sorted (i.e. avr-gcc&libc) - because not all ide options are going to compile for arduino out of the box
[12:04] <hix> I'm happy to just use them for helping me with coding and then use arduino ide to compile. I'm just frustrated with the lack of help provided by arduino ide
[12:04] <hix> really need something with syntax highlighting as a minimum
[12:05] <cuddykid> I'd probably use eclipse
[12:05] <cuddykid> I use netbeans for php/web stuff and that's decent
[12:05] <cuddykid> they do a C version too I think
[12:05] <DanielRichman> ah, okay. I can't really offer any advice then... well,I just use vim
[12:07] <BrainDamage> other c/c++ ides include qtcreator and anjuta, but I am unsure how good they are at cross compiling
[12:08] <BrainDamage> I imagine your main problem will be setting the compiler, binutils, and the libs in the ide options
[12:09] <BrainDamage> oh, and if the ide does not support launching arbitrary 3rd party programs, you'll have to use avrdude ( the chip programmer ) manually
[12:09] <BrainDamage> but that should be easily fixed with a simple bash script
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[12:13] <PD3EM> good afternoon
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[12:18] <danielsaul> We'll start filling for Joey in a few minutes
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[12:31] <danielsaul> Launching now
[12:31] <PD3EM> good luck!
[12:31] <Upu> good timing
[12:32] <priyesh> wow - <2 min late :P
[12:36] <SamSilver> apparently Neil Armstrong use to tell unfunny jokes about the moon and follow it up with "Ah I guess you had to be there!"
[12:38] <benoxley> hi everyone
[12:38] <Upu> hello
[12:38] <Upu> whats ground frequency ?
[12:38] <benoxley> 434.629
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[12:38] <Laurenceb_> launch from EMF?
[12:38] <Upu> ta
[12:38] <benoxley> yup
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[12:41] <Upu> yay got 2 people having QSO's on same band
[12:42] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL_M0LEP
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[12:43] <eroomde> are you turning into a ham Upu?
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[12:43] <LazyL_M0LEP> Interestingly wobbly signal here...
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[12:43] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> no
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> :)
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> got it
[12:43] <PD3EM> great here... sitting outside in the sun on the fieldday ;-)
[12:43] <Upu_M0UPU> loads of QRM though
[12:43] <PD3EM> waiting for Joey to popup above the horizon
[12:44] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ah yes... Field Day would do that...
[12:44] <PD3EM> zero qrm
[12:45] <hix> hmmm wheres the link for dlfldigi for unix? [ubuntu]
[12:46] <hix> https://github.com/downloads/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.21.38.dmg that correct?
[12:46] <eroomde> dmg is a mac osx package
[12:46] <eroomde> not ubuntu
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[12:47] <DanielRichman> hix: you can get the old stable dl-fldigi here: https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive/dl-fldigi
[12:47] <DanielRichman> admittedly the latest published .deb is for maverick...
[12:48] <hix> thought it was osx
[12:48] <hix> cheers DanielRichman
[12:48] <DanielRichman> it would probably work if you downloaded https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive/dl-fldigi/+files/dl-fldigi_3.20.29.r115-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[12:48] <Upu_M0UPU> I'm half tempted to break into their conversation and ask them to move away from this band
[12:48] <DanielRichman> though that's a moderately large 'probably'
[12:49] <DanielRichman> Upu_M0UPU: and then there were 3 hams QSOing on the same band :P
[12:49] <Upu_M0UPU> they don't use 70cms ever
[12:50] <DanielRichman> hix: NB; link above was for i386; you should be able to find the amd64 deb if you need that one
[12:51] <hix> yup I'm on i386 for now
[12:51] <hix> cheers
[12:51] <Upu_M0UPU> well this is wierd never seen so much noise up at 650
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[12:54] <navrac_home> its a strong signal - but hugedrop outs
[12:55] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yay! Green line! ;)
[12:56] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yeah, something is causing the signal to waver dramatically.
[12:57] <navrac_home> i guess since its a pico launch the aerial isveryclose to the balloon and is swaying a lot
[12:58] <Upu_M0UPU> wow go one
[12:58] <Upu_M0UPU> got
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[13:00] <navrac_home> its tricky isnt it
[13:00] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yeah. I think the yagi would have helped...
[13:01] <Upu_M0UPU> not helping here :/
[13:01] <Upu_M0UPU> there is something spashing across the whole 70cms band constantly
[13:02] <Upu_M0UPU> it is a srong signal though
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[13:03] <G7PMO_Kev> hi
[13:03] <G7PMO_Kev> I just got back - I have JOEY but quite a bit of corruption
[13:03] <Upu_M0UPU> I think thats what everyone is seeing
[13:04] <G7PMO_Kev> Oooh, first valid sentance....
[13:05] <G7PMO_Kev> sorry, first time I am trying tracking :)
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> thats ok I still do it :)
[13:07] <navrac_home> not an easy one to start with
[13:08] <LazyL_M0LEP> Hmmm... fading lots...
[13:10] <G7PMO_Kev> at least there are some recievers at Croydon and haywards heath near it's predicted landing
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[13:13] <PD3EM> getting partial decodes now but lot of qsb on the signal
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[13:15] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
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[13:16] <G7PMO_Kev> in the bar that turns green or red in dl-fldigi, I quite often get a green center bar with red at the and bottom, rather than all red or all green - what does that mean?
[13:16] <Upu_M0UPU> its a small display bug
[13:16] <G7PMO_Kev> ok
[13:16] <Upu_M0UPU> it should all be green
[13:16] <G7PMO_Kev> ta
[13:17] <DanielRichman> Upu_M0UPU: do you know if that's fixed in the latest?
[13:17] <Upu_M0UPU> I'll tell you if I can get any packets :)
[13:17] <Upu_M0UPU> I've not noticed it
[13:18] <Upu_M0UPU> I'll keep an eye for it
[13:18] <DanielRichman> ok, thanks
[13:18] <G7PMO_Kev> is there an ideal audio freqency to be at, or just as long as it is audible it is fine?
[13:19] <Upu_M0UPU> whatever puts the bars in the middle of your waterfall
[13:19] <Upu_M0UPU> I'm on 434632.200
[13:19] <priyesh> DanielRichman: fixed in the latest for me
[13:19] <priyesh> (ubuntu 12.04)
[13:20] <DanielRichman> priyesh: good to hear
[13:20] <G7PMO_Kev> 434.6305 puts the bars at 1300 and 1700 for me
[13:21] <G7PMO_Kev> The receiver in France is doing well to pick it up
[13:22] <Upu_M0UPU> They are quite good at it over there, they do radiosonde's all the time
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[13:24] <Upu_M0UPU> well this QRM isn't going to get me receive today
[13:24] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
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[13:30] <navrac_home> whats the burst height set in the predictor?
[13:33] <G7PMO_Kev> I know this questions has probably been discussed in many a heated debate before me, but is RTTY really a good protocol to use? It strikes me that it takes a significant time to transmit a sentance at 50 baud, and just one corrupt letter makes the whole sentance get thrown away. Wouldnt it be better for the protocol to put more effort into getting each character correct, to enable more correct sentances overall?
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[13:35] <navrac_home> g7pmo_kev - just handg on thechannel for a bit, the topic comes up every two days or so
[13:35] <G7PMO_Kev> heheh, I bet it does :)
[13:35] <eroomde> G7PMO_Kev: fly something
[13:35] <eroomde> you fly it, people will listen to it
[13:35] <eroomde> no need to ask permission
[13:36] <LazyL_M0LEP> DanielRichman: It's not fixed in the latest one I've built (3.21.43 is all it says) but I've not re-built in a week or so...
[13:36] <navrac_home> basically rtty is easy to code and decode
[13:37] <LazyL_M0LEP> See also 50 vs 300 vs ... discussions ;)
[13:37] <G7PMO_Kev> eroomde - Sorry, not sure what you mean? I do have an Arduino in front of me and am starting to build a payload
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[13:37] <navrac_home> and normally it can be easily received up to line of sight, so really little need unless you want a higher data rate. the fading on this payload is unusual
[13:38] <eroomde> G7PMO_Kev: i mean re: better modes
[13:38] <G7PMO_Kev> "the fading on this payload is unusual" - ok,
[13:39] <LazyL_M0LEP> If you design and fly a payload that uses something fancier than plain old RTTY then folks will try to track it for you so long as it's somethinf dl-fldigi can (or can be made to) decode. ;)
[13:39] <G7PMO_Kev> eropmde - good point, we can theorise about this stuff all day long, but flying it proves if it really works or not, and mifght tell us if it is better or not
[13:39] <LazyL_M0LEP> Spot on! ;)
[13:40] <eroomde> just fly something, announce it's using some mode you've made or found and check the dlfldigi can decode it (or supply a patch to fldigi or find alternative software) and go for it
[13:40] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yay! Another green line!
[13:40] <DanielRichman> while it's a bit :-( to see the sentence you're receiving discarded due to one character, we have enough people receiving that it's not really an issue
[13:40] <LazyL_M0LEP> I think that makes about 5 for me. ;)
[13:40] <navrac_home> the record is about 750km for 50baud rtty so it does work!
[13:40] <DanielRichman> there is occasionally talk of FEC or having something combine two broken sentences to make one fixed one
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[13:40] <DanielRichman> LazyL_M0LEP: using windows or ubuntu?
[13:40] <LazyL_M0LEP> lubuntu
[13:41] <G7PMO_Kev> Is there a way I can see all valid sentances *I* have uploaded?
[13:41] <DanielRichman> LazyL_M0LEP: which version?
[13:41] <hix> whats the odds? I switch to Ubuntu for the fabled unix stability
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[13:41] <hix> and dl-fldigi crashes everytime i try to set up audio
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[13:42] <DanielRichman> G7PMO_Kev: unfortunately not- we have the information but there's no page that will show you that
[13:42] <DanielRichman> hix: that is a bit :-(; you're using the .deb I linked?
[13:42] Nick change: AndChat|538544 -> pinski1
[13:42] <DanielRichman> could be due to the "probably going to be okay" using a maverick deb on precise
[13:42] <DanielRichman> perhaps it was infact not okay
[13:42] <LazyL_M0LEP> It reports 3.21.43 in "About". I pulled it from jcoxon's git and built it afternoon of 23rd Aug, so may well be behind the curve...
[13:43] <DanielRichman> LazyL_M0LEP: you're running 263b9c7
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[13:43] <benoxley> hi everyone
[13:43] <DanielRichman> I thought of that :P. the git commit gets built into all new releases
[13:44] <hix> it wouldnt work kept getting Dependency is not satisfiable: libxmlrpc-c3
[13:44] <hix> so went to http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[13:44] <hix> and built that one
[13:45] <LazyL_M0LEP> I suspect I'm getting a bit of an "above the co-linear's favoured angles" situation at the moment...
[13:45] <DanielRichman> if you built dl-fldigi from source and it's not working then we have a problem
[13:45] <hix> but to be honest the signal is wavering like a cornered politician
[13:45] <hix> it runs fine, just crashes everytime i try to set the audio input
[13:45] <DanielRichman> hix: does "dl-fldigi crashes everytime i try to set up audio" == segfault?
[13:45] <hix> lost me there
[13:46] <DanielRichman> okay so when it crashes - are you running it from a terminal
[13:46] <DanielRichman> does it print any error message or stacktrace or anything
[13:46] <hix> yup ./src/dl/dl-fldigi --hab
[13:46] <hix> sec
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[13:47] <DanielRichman> LazyL_M0LEP: okay thanks for the info. I'll make a note and try and ensure it's fixed in the next version
[13:47] <griffonbot> @b3noxley: The crowd for the #JoeyEMF launch at #EMFcamp #UKHAS http://t.co/mZq4oDJw [http://twitter.com/b3noxley/status/241895144847183872]
[13:48] <G7PMO_Kev> DanielRichman - actually, wget blah\view.php | grep G7PMO :)
[13:52] <hix> ffs now ./src/dl-fldigi --hab tells me No such file or directory
[13:52] <hix> when it ran fine a minute ago
[13:53] <hix> hmm cd to /home/hix/dl-fldigi/src then ./dl-fldigi --hab fine.......
[13:53] <hix> stacktrace to follow...
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[13:55] <navrac_home> this one seems to be in a holding pattern over ealing. Waiting for clearance from heathrow control?
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[13:57] <hix> DanielRichman, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gLHF0jpY is precrash
[13:58] <hix> seems to be soundcard issue?
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[14:04] <fsphil> ooh launch
[14:05] <hix> DanielRichman, should be worth mentioning that after make it din't run so i did sudo make install
[14:05] <hix> then it ran
[14:05] <DanielRichman> that is also odd.
[14:05] <DanielRichman> okay so:
[14:06] <DanielRichman> hix: you said the above is precrash; what is 'postcrash'
[14:06] <DanielRichman> does it just close?
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[14:07] <DanielRichman> I have a ubuntu precise virtual machine, and I'm starting it up to see if I can produce the same problem
[14:07] <DanielRichman> G7PMO_Kev: wow I had forgotten that is still there. You can interrogate habitat in a similar way; producing equally ugly output
[14:08] <DanielRichman> s/equally/more/
[14:08] <G7PMO_Kev> my last valid packet was 14:28 local :(
[14:09] <hix> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=AxUXJanQ
[14:09] <fsphil> I get signal
[14:09] <fsphil> too weak to decode
[14:09] <G7PMO_Kev> fsphil - ditto
[14:09] <hix> im runnig 11.04 btw
[14:09] <fsphil> DanielRichman: does current github dl-fldigi work?
[14:09] <hix> *running
[14:10] <eroomde> G7PMO_Kev: previous to last, some people have had a go with DominoEX
[14:10] <eroomde> which is MFSK and has FEC built into the standard
[14:10] <DanielRichman> fsphil: run james', not mine
[14:11] <fsphil> k - yea looks like it's in between the transition
[14:11] <LazyL_M0LEP> Whoooo....
[14:11] <LazyL_M0LEP> Burst?
[14:11] <priyesh> yep
[14:11] <fsphil> it's not allowed to burst until I get a working dl-fldigi :p
[14:11] <hix> pop? Sounds like a jet turbine falling?
[14:11] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[14:12] <DanielRichman> fsphil: in between the transition?
[14:12] <G7PMO_Kev> and back up again ?
[14:12] <fsphil> is the db format not changed a bit?
[14:12] <hix> engine 2 back up and running
[14:12] <DanielRichman> yeah but those changes should (hopefully) not be in james' git yet
[14:12] <hix> nope flame out again signal totally gone now
[14:12] <fsphil> they're not I don't think
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[14:13] <PD3EM> 434.320 now
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[14:13] <PD3EM> 434.620
[14:13] <DanielRichman> ah okay i see, your master has a few transition changes
[14:13] <fsphil> yea I pulled in the changes before asking if they worked :)
[14:13] <PD3EM> 615
[14:13] <fsphil> building james anyway
[14:13] <hix> .6135
[14:14] <fsphil> no trace of the signal here now
[14:14] <DanielRichman> yeah just check out james' master
[14:14] <hix> 434.613
[14:14] <G7PMO_Kev> fsphil - how are yuo followign the frequency change so quickly :)
[14:14] <DanielRichman> my latest master works (afaik, haven't tested too thoroughly)
[14:14] <fsphil> by not receiving anything at all G7PMO_Kev :)
[14:14] <daveake> lol
[14:14] <DanielRichman> but it only works with the updated database
[14:14] <G7PMO_Kev> freq rising again
[14:15] <daveake> oh, now it's drifting the other way
[14:15] <hix> .6155
[14:15] <hix> .6170
[14:15] <daveake> Need an AFC fast-as-a-speeding-bullet mode
[14:15] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[14:15] <fsphil> I don't see it on my waterfall at all
[14:15] <hix> .6225
[14:15] <daveake> HAM-1 did this. Impossible to track
[14:16] <LazyL_M0LEP> drifting wasn't quite the word that came to mind....
[14:16] <DanielRichman> hix: okay; thanks - that's definitely a segfault. If you're willing to try and debug the problem then I can tell you how to get a complete stacktrace - but don't worry if you don't want to/can't
[14:16] <fsphil> is it falling?
[14:16] <G7PMO_Kev> 6245
[14:16] <hix> DanielRichman, go for it
[14:16] <DanielRichman> hix: okay so need to rebuild with debugging; you do this:
[14:16] Nick change: AndChat|538544 -> pinski1
[14:16] <DanielRichman> ./configure --enable-debug --disable-flarq
[14:16] <DanielRichman> then make clean; make
[14:17] <hix> i'll try it
[14:17] <DanielRichman> I would be interested in what prevents it from running without installing
[14:17] <G7PMO_Kev> 6295
[14:17] <DanielRichman> when you get to it, does running $ src/dl-fldigi produce an error?
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[14:19] <fsphil> ah, definitely falling
[14:19] <priyesh> please don't land in richmond park
[14:19] <fsphil> 4.7km
[14:19] <fsphil> falling fast for this altitude
[14:19] <hix> .6310 here now
[14:20] <fsphil> Spankers Hill Wood
[14:20] <fsphil> what a name
[14:20] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[14:20] <daveake> It's gonna spank something
[14:20] <LazyL_M0LEP> Wow! That was quite a fall....
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[14:20] <Laurenceb_> no chute
[14:20] <G7PMO_Kev> wow, 25m/s, it isnt suposed to be that fast is it :)
[14:21] <fsphil> definitely richmond park
[14:21] greg (5eac29ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.172.41.234) joined #highaltitude.
[14:21] <daveake> 1000 HAB points for taking out a deer
[14:21] <PhilVeale> anyone see it land?
[14:21] <fsphil> it's not landed just yet
[14:21] <fsphil> heading for a clearing
[14:21] <DanielRichman> there's a problem with the receivers list that might make the antenna masts on the map disappear - am investigating
[14:21] <navrac_work> still got weak signal here
[14:21] Nick change: greg -> gregoryfenton
[14:21] <navrac_work> ah gone
[14:21] <fsphil> but very close to some trees
[14:22] <gregoryfenton> May I ask a question?
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[14:22] <daveake> Yes, you're allowed 1 per day, and that was it :)
[14:22] <fsphil> you just did :)
[14:22] <LazyL_M0LEP> Gone.
[14:22] <gregoryfenton> Thanks, see you tomorrow :P
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[14:22] <daveake> OK, special treat, you can have one more ;)
[14:22] Action: DanielRichman glares at fsphil
[14:23] <DanielRichman> you uploaded new format docs into the old database
[14:23] <fsphil> I did?
[14:23] <PhilVeale> Did Joey actually have a parachute? The package was so tiny...
[14:23] <DanielRichman> yeah
[14:23] <DanielRichman> d/w about it; will fix
[14:23] <priyesh> no chute
[14:23] <fsphil> which doc?
[14:23] <fsphil> been a while since I edited any
[14:24] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: ping
[14:24] <DanielRichman> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/0000c08fdedaaba27a3aa633c9be5df0
[14:24] <LazyL_M0LEP> What sort of balloon/payload was it, then?
[14:24] <LazyL_M0LEP> Looks like it'll have hit the ground at 20 m/s
[14:24] <fsphil> odd DanielRichman - dl-fldigi must have done that?
[14:25] <DanielRichman> fsphil: yeah; if you built and ran a post-transition version I guess
[14:25] <fsphil> I have yea, I pulled in those changes earlier in the week
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[14:25] <Darkside> priyesh: where are you?
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[14:26] <navrac_work> 35m/s from the last packets i got at 3km high
[14:26] <fsphil> oh yea, richmond park. 10000 points if you landed on Benton
[14:26] <priyesh> Darkside: about to leave - going to try get it
[14:26] <Darkside> awesome
[14:26] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[14:26] <Darkside> priyesh: can you still see any traces of signal/
[14:27] <Darkside> ?
[14:27] <daveake> It'll either be in a hole in the ground, or next to a dead dog
[14:27] <Darkside> i'm wondering if it sstill alive
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[14:27] <navrac_work> no logging it onto spacenear - i'm winning the callsign pie - if you drive to it you will beat me!
[14:27] <daveake> :)
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[14:27] <navrac_work> considering the light payload, the burst balloon didnt slow it down much
[14:28] <fsphil> or Fenton even
[14:28] <gregoryfenton> The speed of a balloon (I am monitoring the #emfcamp one). Currently it is 21.6 m/s. Would that be 21 m/s at sea level or 21 m/s at its current altitude? Being so much higher would mean moving a metre up there would only move the balloon by a fraction of a metre relative to the ground, or am I mistaken? Angles are not something I have done since school :P
[14:28] <navrac_work> i think a parachute is definatly reqd on those 100g
[14:28] <fsphil> I bet there was no balloon left
[14:28] <navrac_work> thats the vertical velocity
[14:28] <Darkside> gregoryfenton: the vertical velocity is the velocity based on the difference between 2 packets
[14:28] <Darkside> at that current time
[14:29] <Darkside> though given it was reporting 21.9m/s descent rate at 1km, it probably landed at something similsr to it
[14:29] <gregoryfenton> That close to London it had better be able to outrun a Rapier :P
[14:29] <fsphil> that was one of the quicker drops
[14:30] <navrac_work> do we know how much the payload weighed? we could work out how far embedded in the ground it will be...
[14:31] <PhilVeale> 200-600g maybe? ish
[14:31] <Darkside> not that much
[14:31] <hix> haven't they got rid of the rapiers and the no fly zone now despite paralympics still going on?
[14:31] <navrac_work> it was only a 100g latex wasnt it
[14:32] <navrac_work> so probably 60-80g payload?
[14:32] <LazyL_M0LEP> Think I got more fixes on its descent between 7323 metres and the last good one at 1142 metres than I got the whole of the rest of the flight. ;)
[14:33] <gregoryfenton> Looking at google maps for where it is someone better start climbing the trees :P
[14:33] <navrac_work> i was frantically retunuing the hdsdr to try to keep it in time with the frequency change. Holdingh the mouse on the 10hz kept it enough in track to get 90% partials
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[14:34] <fsphil> signal vanished here more or less as soon as it burst
[14:34] <LazyL_M0LEP> That frequency change was pretty crazy.
[14:35] <navrac_work> Its hard to say whether its trees or the lake - the trees are closer, but water is more magnetic to balloons
[14:35] <LazyL_M0LEP> Probably in a lake under the trees ;)
[14:36] <navrac_work> whats the logtail address?
[14:37] <gregoryfenton> Does it generate a signal that can be used to locate it using handheld equipment, or an audible tone or suchlike?
[14:37] <DanielRichman> navrac_work: http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail
[14:38] <navrac_work> - hopefully the transmitter will survive - so a small portable radio and a laptop to decode it should lead you to it - or a receiver and a directional antenna
[14:38] <navrac_work> thanks danielrichman
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[14:39] <hix> it'll be near a felled tree
[14:39] <hix> by a dead dog
[14:39] <hix> with RAF Regiment guarding it
[14:40] <PhilVeale> just look for the blue flashing lights
[14:40] <gregoryfenton> Maybe it landed on a planet run by damned dirty apes :D
[14:40] <hix> it did
[14:40] <daveake> planet of the habs
[14:41] <hix> planet of the japes
[14:41] <hix> daveake, have you got a prediction for tomorrow?
[14:42] <Darkside> yes
[14:42] <Darkside> south-east
[14:42] <hix> :D
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[14:42] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=14931b16e78ef0a284231bc8dbe5df53064e6321
[14:42] <fsphil> Darkside, drop boar: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzzaioCi9N1rq8whqo1_500.jpg
[14:43] <Darkside> haha
[14:43] <Darkside> pig in tree
[14:43] <priyesh> on my way
[14:43] <priyesh> traffic :P
[14:44] <hix> fish and chips on the beach in bognor then if it floats a little
[14:44] <DanielRichman> priyesh: where is the priyesh_chase car
[14:45] <priyesh> on the map!
[14:45] <DanielRichman> :-)
[14:45] <fsphil> you've a good bit to cover
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[14:49] <priyesh> like 30 mph speed limit in the park :|
[14:50] <daveake> That's a horizontal limit only, fortunately
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[14:52] <G7PMO_Kev> Mmmm, I got a grand total of 12 valid packets :( And that's with a decent colinear on a pole on the chimney and the house is 100m above sea level, does that amount of error sugest something wrong with my setup, or do I just need a Yagi instead if I want a better signal?
[14:52] <priyesh> really slow car infront of us
[14:53] <navrac_home> what receiver were you using?
[14:53] <fsphil> this was a pretty unusual launch G7PMO_Kev- might be worth seeing how you do on a more routine flight
[14:53] <Darkside> G7PMO_Kev: try tomorrow
[14:53] <G7PMO_Kev> yaesu vr-500
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[14:54] <G7PMO_Kev> ok,
[14:55] <navrac_home> it was a hard one to track.
[14:57] <LazyL_M0LEP> G7PMO_Kev: Yeah, this payload was challenging because of the deep fades. I've tried to track worse, but not much worse. I'd say 90% of payloads are easier. ;)
[14:57] <fsphil> indeed, you got 12 more than I did :)
[14:58] <navrac_home> the ast agc on hdsdr helped a bit I think
[14:58] <navrac_home> ast/fast
[14:59] <priyesh> got a packet
[14:59] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yeah, there's a thought. I expect I had AGC off...
[15:00] <fsphil> tree
[15:00] <fsphil> it's in the pit
[15:01] <LazyL_M0LEP> ...which is full of water?
[15:01] <fsphil> oh wait the map hasn't updated
[15:01] <fsphil> that's still the old packet
[15:01] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yeah.
[15:02] <LazyL_M0LEP> The classic has to be that payload that landed in Holland, and got caught in the only tree, and was found hanging a foot or two above the water... ;)
[15:03] <fsphil> I love that photo
[15:03] <fsphil> that was ballast halo
[15:03] <fsphil> the first flight I ever watched live
[15:03] <LazyL_M0LEP> Was one of my first few.
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[15:03] <fsphil> I met up with the projectcirrus team that night too, which lead to my first launch
[15:05] <navrac_home> what was the packet priyesh?
[15:05] <fsphil> the car's gone a fair distance from the prediction
[15:06] <navrac_home> looking for somewhere to park?
[15:08] <LazyL_M0LEP> guess so
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[15:14] <cuddykid> that was lucky landing in the park!
[15:15] <cuddykid> surely that flew right through the heathrow flight path
[15:16] <navrac_home> it didnt stay long in the height range of a plane though
[15:16] <cuddykid> true
[15:17] <cuddykid> such a tiny change
[15:17] <cuddykid> *chance
[15:17] <navrac_home> at 5km up it was coming down at 35m/s
[15:17] <cuddykid> but then again, if it did happen it might not be too pleasant at that low alt
[15:17] <cuddykid> knocks someone out in richmond park lol
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[15:19] <navrac_home> no word from priyesh for a while - probably been arrested
[15:20] <cuddykid> :/
[15:20] <cuddykid> I could just imagine a scene of mass panic
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[15:26] <priyesh> got it !!!
[15:26] <priyesh> on my way home
[15:27] <navrac_home> well done! where was it?
[15:27] <daveake> well done :)
[15:27] <Darkside> priyesh: do you have pics?
[15:28] <priyesh> got pics
[15:29] <priyesh> brb
[15:29] <priyesh> 3g in the park is not so good
[15:29] <benoxley> :P
[15:29] <daveake> It did more than 3g when it hit :0
[15:29] <hix> ha ha
[15:29] <navrac_home> lol
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[15:30] <hix> priyesh, was probably having trouble climbing back out of the crater
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[15:30] <LazyL_M0LEP> Hiya Mike
[15:31] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[15:31] <Penfold> yo
[15:32] Action: LazyLeopard should go back t tidying up the debris following the morning'a assault on the garden...
[15:32] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[15:32] <Penfold> :)
[15:33] <LazyLeopard> JOEY having provided an excuse thus far...
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[15:39] <benoxley> priyesh: pics?
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[15:44] <priyesh> back home
[15:45] <navrac_home> tell usthe story then!
[15:46] <priyesh> what a story
[15:46] Action: priyesh uploads pictures
[15:46] <priyesh> my sister came along for the trip too
[15:46] <priyesh> so it landed without balloon and without the self addressed envelope it was in
[15:47] <priyesh> i'm assuming it lost those when it burst
[15:47] <priyesh> so jonsowman's address is floating around ealing
[15:47] <priyesh> along with a latex balloon
[15:47] <number10> hope it doesnt land in soho
[15:48] <Randomskk> hopefully someone will post him the empty balloon :P
[15:48] <navrac_home> with that amount of latex, he might get offered some 'film' work
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[15:49] <navrac_home> was it on the grass or in a tree?
[15:49] <priyesh> in the grass
[15:49] <priyesh> so, when it landed i put the ft817 on charge
[15:49] <priyesh> as we know its battery is terrible
[15:49] <navrac_home> many people around?
[15:49] <priyesh> so i managed to charge it for 5 min
[15:50] <priyesh> that gave me all of 10 seconds of usage
[15:50] <priyesh> so we drive along the road next to the landing site
[15:50] <priyesh> turn on the radio
[15:50] <priyesh> get the lat and lon and the radio dies
[15:50] <priyesh> (lucky)
[15:50] <navrac_home> very
[15:50] <priyesh> then we're walking to the lat/lon looking for a big balloon + envelope
[15:51] <priyesh> and luckily come across a pcb lying in the grass
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[15:52] <RocketBoy> ha came down next to the white lodge - thats where I got the scar above my left eye - got it scateboarding
[15:53] <RocketBoy> so the board came out the envelope?
[15:53] <eroomde> before i knew you, presumably
[15:54] <navrac_home> well it was dropping at 80mph so I suspect the envelope got ripped off
[15:54] <Randomskk> yes sounds likely
[15:55] <Darkside> must have been a very clean burst
[15:56] <priyesh> pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2gm1nj8b0r7yrjk/0VWlx_OQ_5
[15:56] <daveake> oh wow
[15:56] <cuddykid> that could have sparked a fair bit of panic!
[15:57] <priyesh> danielsaul: Randomskk benoxley jonsowman https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2gm1nj8b0r7yrjk/0VWlx_OQ_5
[15:57] <cuddykid> or done someone some harm! Glad it came down safely
[15:57] <Randomskk> sweet
[15:58] <Darkside> no wonder it drifted so much
[15:58] <Darkside> no insulation lol
[15:58] <Upu> did that have any insulation ?
[15:58] <gregoryfenton> Good morning Claims Direct, how can I help? A what was embedded in your forehead?
[15:58] <cuddykid> wonder if the heathrow radar picked that up as it was plummeting :P
[15:58] <Darkside> doubt it
[15:58] <Darkside> ground radar can't pick up the big corner reflectors we use
[15:58] <Darkside> they wouldn't pick up this
[15:58] <cuddykid> ah right
[15:58] <Upu> parachute fail ?
[15:58] <Darkside> no parachute
[15:58] <Darkside> lol
[15:59] <daveake> "Er, doc, ever since I got this hole in my head I've never gotten lost"
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[15:59] <cuddykid> lol
[15:59] <gregoryfenton> :)
[15:59] <gregoryfenton> Bu I have a real craving for latex
[15:59] <gregoryfenton> but*
[16:00] <navrac_home> and car doors unlock as i go past
[16:01] <gregoryfenton> When I blink the milk in the fridge boils
[16:02] <priyesh> just updated spacenear.us
[16:02] <priyesh> (with the last packet i had)
[16:03] <daveake> Lucky it turned at the end
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[16:03] <daveake> Mind you, I don't think a tree would have stopped it :D
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[16:04] <navrac_home> no cord on it either - maybe the line snapped
[16:05] <jcoxon> !
[16:05] <jcoxon> joey in richmond park?
[16:05] <navrac_home> yep - hit at 20m/s
[16:05] <fsphil> how on earth did you find that
[16:05] <priyesh> fsphil: pure luck
[16:06] <priyesh> well i typed the lat/lon into my phone
[16:06] <priyesh> and we just kept walking
[16:06] <eroomde> fenton tracking stuff across richmond park
[16:06] <fsphil> surprised you didn't step on it
[16:06] <eroomde> rings a bell
[16:06] <priyesh> fsphil: very, very nearly did
[16:06] <jcoxon> JOEY.....
[16:06] <jcoxon> oh god
[16:06] <fsphil> oh deer
[16:06] <eroomde> :D
[16:07] <daveake> $$PETUNIAS
[16:07] <Upu> recovered jcoxon
[16:07] <jcoxon> excellent
[16:07] <jcoxon> though i think it broke the unofficial no London flyby rule
[16:07] <priyesh> i risked my criminal record for Randomskk
[16:07] <priyesh> :P
[16:08] <Randomskk> ty :p
[16:09] <priyesh> np
[16:09] <eroomde> yes that's the closest london flight i can recall
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[16:11] <Randomskk> 100g latex balloons are odd
[16:11] <Randomskk> had fun filling
[16:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Joey Launch - EMF Camp - This Weekend"
[16:11] <Randomskk> maybe 50 people gathered around in a big circle
[16:12] <priyesh> :D
[16:12] <jcoxon> good work guys
[16:12] <jcoxon> Randomskk, some new converts?
[16:12] <Randomskk> jcoxon: a lot of keen people
[16:12] <Randomskk> I plugged the wiki/irc/google group
[16:13] <Randomskk> forgot to plug the conference
[16:13] <Randomskk> :|
[16:13] <jcoxon> Randomskk, its okay
[16:13] <jcoxon> we are pretty much at max capacity for the confernece
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[16:15] <eroomde> Max Capacity
[16:16] <eroomde> a good name for an event advertising man
[16:16] <eroomde> Dr Who this eve
[16:16] <Darkside> 7pm?
[16:16] <eroomde> 7.20
[16:16] <Darkside> hrm
[16:16] <eroomde> what?
[16:16] <Darkside> i'll get back just in time to watch it on iplayer i think
[16:16] <Darkside> maybe
[16:16] <Darkside> i can ust watch it on iplayer a bit later
[16:17] <Darkside> can't stay up late tonight, need to be up at ridiculous 'o clock
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[16:17] <Upu> what time do you need to be up ?
[16:17] <davidbod> Any news on the Richmond Park pickup?
[16:18] <fsphil> it was recovered davidbod
[16:18] <Darkside> davidbod: all recovered
[16:18] <davidbod> thanks. whanabouts?
[16:18] <davidbod> when...
[16:18] <fsphil> about an hour ago
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> everyone safe in the park?
[16:19] <fsphil> no injured deers or runaway dogs
[16:19] <priyesh> no dogs or deer were harmed in the landing of a joey
[16:19] <priyesh> for a moment i saw a dog running around with something in its mouth
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[16:19] <Randomskk> haha
[16:19] <priyesh> i thought the worst
[16:20] <davidbod> i had a driveby and couldn't see any activity. Didn't help that the stats had got stuck on the website
[16:20] <priyesh> just uploaded slightly larger photos
[16:21] <davidbod> how can I see those (sorry, n00b here)
[16:21] <priyesh> still not full size which are ~6mb each
[16:21] <priyesh> davidbod: it's in my email
[16:21] <priyesh> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2gm1nj8b0r7yrjk/0VWlx_OQ_5#/
[16:21] <priyesh> ^^
[16:21] <davidbod> Cool, thanks
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah but imo it was pretty daft to fly over london like that
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> id suggest wiping the tracker logs
[16:22] <davidbod> they were anticipating it to be flying east i think
[16:23] <davidbod> there was a chase car ready in holland
[16:23] <Darkside> nah
[16:23] <Darkside> not for that flight
[16:23] <Darkside> its probably just someone etesting
[16:23] <davidbod> the car's ID matched the balloon tho
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[16:24] <davidbod> maybe my mistake
[16:24] <eroomde> i don;t imagine they were anticipating east
[16:24] <eroomde> given the entire flight (which the predictor would have shown) was south-south east
[16:25] <davidbod> This was the tweet I had from my friend: "High altitude balloon launch at @emfcamp! Track it live as it travels east from Milton Keynes"
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[16:26] <eroomde> mmm, thought unless your friend knows his hab it's likely that that doesn't carry much weight
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> im not going to say much as this channel is public but that was possibly the most dangerous HAB thing ive seen ever
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> not smart at all
[16:27] <davidbod> do these things not normally have some kind of paracute on them?
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[16:29] <Upu> parachute was attached to the insulation I believe which appears to have detached itself from the transmitter
[16:29] <priyesh> i did search the surrounding area but nothing was there :(
[16:30] <Upu> was there a dent in the ground, that was 50 mph
[16:30] <priyesh> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2gm1nj8b0r7yrjk/0VWlx_OQ_5#f:DSC02676.JPG
[16:30] <priyesh> very grassy
[16:30] <priyesh> so not really
[16:30] <danielsaul> There was no parachute
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[16:30] <danielsaul> Tracker was taped directly to neck of balloon
[16:31] <danielsaul> (in a stamped envelope)
[16:31] <Upu> no parachute ?
[16:31] <danielsaul> Nope
[16:31] <Upu> that was silly
[16:31] <danielsaul> Yeah... just a bit :/
[16:32] <priyesh> with the chute it would have landed further away from the centre
[16:32] <danielsaul> Unfortunately, we had no way of measuring the amount of helium
[16:32] <danielsaul> had no idea how much to put it in
[16:33] <Upu> and it wouldn't have come down at 50mph, anyway not preaching but very not clever
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[16:35] <danielsaul> I blame Randomskk
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[17:01] <jgrahamc> Evening
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:03] <jgrahamc> Is anyone else uncomfortable about the Joey flight today? I was surprised to see a flight that was predicted to fly over London go ahead especially given that it would have descended through the LHR arrival path.
[17:03] <jgrahamc> The UKHAS guidelines specifically say: "Before launching a balloon run computer modelled flight predictions, postpone launch if there is a high chance of the payload landing in urban areas or near to airports. If the payload is predicated to pass through or near NOTAM'd airspace, Danger or Air Traffic Zones then discuss this with the operator of these areas."
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> the trajectory indeed doesn't look good
[17:04] <Upu> its already been commented on
[17:05] <jgrahamc> Apologies Upu if I am repeating stuff people already said.
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, in the zeusbot log?
[17:05] <jgrahamc> Just very concerned that this sort of stuff could lead to HAB being restricted in the UK.
[17:05] <Upu> no its ok it seems to be the consensus
[17:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Joey Launch - EMF Camp - This Weekend"
[17:07] <Upu> JOEY people can I remove it from spacenear.us ?
[17:08] <priyesh> Randomskk: ^^
[17:08] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Joey Launch - EMF Camp - This Weekend"
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[17:10] <Randomskk> Upu: yea sure
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[17:19] Action: Colin-g8tmv wanders in rather late
[17:19] <Colin-g8tmv> Is it me or was todays launch a really bad idea (both projected track and lack of 'chute)?
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[17:21] <cuddykid> Colin-g8tmv: yeah, we've had extensive commentary on the matter :P
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[17:24] <BrainDamage> I'd suggest for the next time to include a jericho siren on the payload ( the whiny sirens sometimes attached to bomb fins )
[17:24] <BrainDamage> some londinians might recall some old memories about them
[17:24] <cuddykid> for extra entertainment
[17:24] <Colin-g8tmv> I'd suggest that next time the admins for Habitat and Spacenear.us decline to process the telemetry
[17:25] <PhilVeale> payload was a tiny jiffy bag
[17:25] <cuddykid> have a "no process" zone around london lol
[17:25] <Colin-g8tmv> so I saw from the pictures
[17:26] <Colin-g8tmv> cuddykid: no, just refuse them the service based on their past lack of understanding of safety procedures
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> Trouble with that is if a HAB strays into a danger zone that's exactly when you might really need to know exactly where it is...
[17:27] <Colin-g8tmv> I'm talking about refusing before launch
[17:28] <Colin-g8tmv> As John says on UKHAS "This sort of behaviour could be the death of HAB as a hobby in the UK. It feels irresponsible." We need to show that we don't condone that sort of thing
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[17:47] <jgrahamc> I agree with Colin-g8tmv. We should be making clear signs that we object to this.
[17:47] <jgrahamc> I think this should be a topic at the conference.
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[17:54] <SamSilver> starting in 5 mins http://www.gordonbennett2012.ch/en-live-cam.html
[17:55] <SamSilver> http://tracking.way.aero/gordonbennett/
[17:56] <SamSilver> 17 x He balloons racing
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[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah Hempleman-Adams is back
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[18:15] <SamSilver> correction starting in 1 hr and 45 mins > http://www.gordonbennett2012.ch/en-live-cam.html
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[18:46] <eroomde> 17:47 < jgrahamc> I think this should be a topic at the conference.
[18:46] <eroomde> what would that achieve?
[18:48] <eroomde> the conference is not a meeting of the un security council where we issue memoranda of understanding that merely reiterate what everybody is already saying
[18:48] <eroomde> just have it out on here or the mailing list
[18:51] <Upu> just let it lie
[18:51] <eroomde> or that
[18:51] <Randomskk> so just to clarify, it was my launch
[18:51] <Randomskk> not sure if everyone got that from daniel's emails
[18:51] <Upu> mistake was made no harm done move along
[18:51] <Randomskk> might write an email later
[18:52] <Randomskk> not sure it'l accomplish much
[18:52] <Randomskk> doubt the habitat admins will be banning my telemetry though
[18:52] <daveake> Upu's comment +1
[18:52] <daveake> lol
[18:52] Nick change: ngharo_ -> ngharo
[18:52] <Upu> lol
[18:52] <Upu> no
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[18:54] <eroomde> yes deleting telem is probably unecessary
[18:55] <DrLuke> LiPos are totally useless at low temperatures, right?
[18:55] <DrLuke> low being <5°C
[18:55] <Randomskk> no
[18:56] <Randomskk> but they definitely get worse as you get colder
[18:56] <Upu> -20'C I think DrLuke
[18:56] <DrLuke> ah
[18:56] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:power_supply
[18:56] <DrLuke> well do you know any european single cell lipo supplier for quantities of ~100 lipos?
[18:57] <eroomde> look up kokam
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[18:57] <eroomde> find their distributor
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[18:57] <DrLuke> ok
[18:57] <eroomde> for 100 you can probably buy direct from a distributor
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[18:58] <eroomde> i suspect rc-model size cells would probably be easier to get a hold of
[18:58] <eroomde> but I don;t really know
[18:59] <Upu> dealextreme :)
[18:59] <eroomde> oh god that site
[18:59] <eroomde> that url must have cost them
[18:59] <Upu> dx.com ?
[19:00] <DrLuke> eroomde: well, rc-sized is too big
[19:00] <DrLuke> I need something you'd find in a cell phone
[19:00] <daveake> There are many rc sizes
[19:00] <eroomde> DrLuke: ah ok. well they do go small for tiny flying models
[19:00] <daveake> One of mine is about 25x20x4
[19:00] <Upu> http://dx.com/s/Lithium+Polymer+Lipo+Battery
[19:01] <eroomde> but again it's probably v easy to find them at ahigher price each but image a distriutor would give you a good price for 100
[19:01] <eroomde> we bought 50 pyrotechnic protractors in april, spent £1000 but they were half price at that quantity
[19:01] <DrLuke> yeah
[19:02] <DrLuke> I need something of a higher quality than dealextreme, because I need them for an aeronautic application
[19:02] <DrLuke> they must not catch fire at any chance
[19:02] <DrLuke> (under normal operation that is of course)
[19:02] <eroomde> well, a lot of that will come down to your engineering and operational management
[19:02] <eroomde> they need care and attention as you use them
[19:03] <DrLuke> well, I will have a dedicated charging IC built in
[19:03] <DrLuke> and a simple dc-dc converter to convert it's output to 3.3V
[19:04] <eroomde> the things you want to avoid (to prevent puffing up and eventually exploding) are high discharge rates and over-discharging
[19:04] <eroomde> so you might want a higher shutdown voltage threshold, for example
[19:05] <eroomde> eg 3.45V per cell
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[19:05] <DrLuke> yeah
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[19:05] <DrLuke> also I've read that often discharging and recharging it helps prolonging its life
[19:05] <eroomde> on our robotic blimp we did some really high discharge stuff
[19:06] <eroomde> and they noticely puffed after a few flights
[19:06] <DrLuke> oh
[19:06] <eroomde> well, they'll have a max number of cycles anyway
[19:06] <DrLuke> yeah
[19:06] <DrLuke> they will be replacable too
[19:06] <eroomde> but that is probably a function of regularity, storage time, how deeply you discharge etc
[19:07] <DrLuke> yep, we'll have to thoroughly test everything
[19:07] <eroomde> what sort of capacity then per cell?
[19:07] <DrLuke> I don't quite know yet
[19:07] <DrLuke> all I know is that a nRF905, ublox neo-6q and atmega have to run on it for atleast 10 hours
[19:08] <DrLuke> let me check power consumption of the nRF
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[19:09] <DrLuke> seems to be on the order of 30 mW while transmitting
[19:10] <DrLuke> ah
[19:10] <DrLuke> 100 mW when transmitting, 30 mW when receiving
[19:10] <DrLuke> and it will be transmitting a lot
[19:10] <eroomde> ok
[19:10] <eroomde> well go for 200mW total
[19:11] <eroomde> so the packs are gonna have to be of the order of 2Wh
[19:11] <DrLuke> well, I need 2 Wh
[19:11] <DrLuke> yep
[19:11] <DrLuke> or 3 Wh to be on the safe side
[19:11] <eroomde> so 2Wh / 2.6V = 550mAh ish
[19:12] <DrLuke> did you mean 3.6V?
[19:13] <eroomde> er yes
[19:13] <eroomde> sorry
[19:13] <eroomde> 2/3.6 = 0.550
[19:13] <DrLuke> no worries :P
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[19:20] <eroomde> DrLuke: presumably this kind of thing then: http://uk.farnell.com/bak/lp-443440-is-3/battery-lithium-pol-3-7v-600-mah/dp/2077883
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[19:20] <DrLuke> that looks good, thanks!
[19:23] <eroomde> DrLuke: I have used specifically these ones
[19:23] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/bak/lp-443440-is-3/battery-lithium-pol-3-7v-600-mah/dp/2077883
[19:23] <DrLuke> same link
[19:24] <eroomde> oh whoops
[19:24] <eroomde> well, they're 650mAh cells
[19:24] <eroomde> i have a couple in my hand right now
[19:24] <eroomde> this is their uk office:
[19:24] <eroomde> http://electronics.zibb.co.uk/profile/ibt+power/gb/middlesex/sunbury+on+thames/tw16+9an/26496716
[19:25] <eroomde> 2.4Wh, part number: E443442G-001
[19:25] <DrLuke> well
[19:25] <DrLuke> you said you pretty much abused yours?
[19:25] <DrLuke> and it didn't self destruct?
[19:25] <eroomde> ah that was for our airship
[19:25] <eroomde> we pulled about 120A
[19:26] <eroomde> those were big packs
[19:26] <DrLuke> nice
[19:26] <eroomde> these ones i have here are for littler things
[19:26] <DrLuke> yeah
[19:26] <DrLuke> well, I won't get around abusing them myself
[19:26] <eroomde> DrLuke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk
[19:26] <DrLuke> that's pretty cool about being paid for this kind of stuff, you get to break it 8)
[19:26] <DrLuke> wow, that's awesome
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[19:28] <eroomde> and this is a landing
[19:28] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0m0jEfR_iw&feature=relmfu
[19:28] <eroomde> (an awesome landing :-p )
[19:30] <DrLuke> :D
[19:31] <eroomde> she had an autopilot but i wrote the autopilot in about 30 minutes in the hotel room in davos whilst we were there, and so it often required a bit of manual intervention
[19:31] <eroomde> especially at landing
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[19:31] <DrLuke> hehe
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[19:32] <eroomde> we had to absondon it completely for the avalanche field sweeps because the onboard terrain map we were meant to strafe was is a difference coordinate system to the gps altitude, which meant it thought it was 50m higher than it was
[19:32] <eroomde> so it kept wanting to fly into the mountain
[19:33] <eroomde> was in a *
[19:34] <DrLuke> oh
[19:35] <eroomde> all these bugs you find in the field
[19:35] <eroomde> the juiciest bug was that the linux kernel would crash unless it was turned on with the blimp pointing to the south
[19:37] <eroomde> anyway this is not helping you with lipo cells
[19:37] <eroomde> but yes, treat em nice and they should last fine
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[19:52] <DrLuke> haha
[19:52] <DrLuke> yep thanks for your help man
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[20:13] <griffonbot> @dave1010: @bozallen RT @b3noxley The crowd for the #JoeyEMF launch at #EMFcamp #UKHAS http://t.co/RGJ0ostz [http://twitter.com/dave1010/status/241992254678503424]
[20:14] <Darkside> lots of frowns
[20:15] <Upu> probably knew where it was landing
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[20:23] <Colin-g8tmv> They were really lucky it didn't hurt someone, 20m/s!!
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[20:25] <griffonbot> @bozallen: High altitude baloon tracking was awesome! #emfcamp #ukhas http://t.co/5w5V4PtQ [http://twitter.com/bozallen/status/241995317522874368]
[20:25] <RizzlaPlus> with the current weather, not that many people in the park
[20:27] <Colin-g8tmv> how can you tell - might have been a 10km fun run or something
[20:28] <Colin-g8tmv> I'd say that launching without a parachute was criminally negilent
[20:29] <Upu> whats done is done no one got hurt, was daft but lets move along
[20:29] <Colin-g8tmv> Upu: Yes, but we need to make sure it never happens again!
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[20:30] <Colin-g8tmv> The wrong attitude is to say what you just said - it makes people thing it was ok
[20:30] <Upu> we aren't an authority people will act on their own we can only advise best practice, I hope people have their own common sense
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah like that one guy who launched without authorization
[20:31] <Colin-g8tmv> Yes, and we can enforce things a bit by saying that if you don't meet our guidelines then you get excluded from the tracker system
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[20:31] <Upu> that might be difficult as he wrote it
[20:31] <Upu> but generally the people who launch without notams don't use our system anyway
[20:32] <Upu> I'm not justifying it, it was wrong and I have no idea why someone with that experience did what they did but there you go
[20:34] <Upu> sadly the drama has eclipsed the fact that a 100g balloon that didn't need a NOTAM got to 25km altitude
[20:34] <Upu> which is fairly epic
[20:34] <Upu> especially as it reproduced Steves earlier flight
[20:34] <DRAMA> :D
[20:34] <Upu> oh hello
[20:34] <DRAMA> hello Upu
[20:34] <Colin-g8tmv> well I hope it never gets into any news media - that would be very bad
[20:35] <Colin-g8tmv> also I hope that flight is ineligible for any record tables
[20:35] <Upu> if we stop talking about it thats more likely not to happen :)
[20:36] <Colin-g8tmv> I disagree, if we stop talking about it someone else will assume it was ok and do it again
[20:41] <SamSilver> i am trying to track 17 He balloons with this tracker and it seems to be stuck or broken any ideas? http://tracking.way.aero/gordonbennett/
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[20:44] <DrLuke> gotta love big commercial fireworks
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19441861
[20:57] <navrac_home> c
[20:58] <fsphil> ++
[20:58] <Colin-g8tmv> #
[20:58] <fsphil> EMF looked like fun, hope they do another one
[20:58] <Upu> it did look good actually
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[21:00] <fsphil> I keep seeing g8tmv and thinking 'ta very much' .. it almost works :)
[21:00] <Colin-g8tmv> Ten Million Volts
[21:01] Nick change: DRAMA -> DRAMAWAY
[21:01] <navrac_home> too many vodkas
[21:01] <Upu> evening
[21:02] <Upu> wrong channel..
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[21:02] <Upu> but hi anyway :)
[21:02] <navrac_home> hi
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander_> hi Upu
[21:02] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: Naw, I'm more of a real ale or single malt type
[21:02] <navrac_home> so is rocketboy going to stock these 100g's?
[21:02] <fsphil> MI0VIM -- victory is mine!
[21:03] <navrac_home> have to change your callsign then
[21:03] <Colin-g8tmv> wasn't VIM a household cleaner back in the 60's
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[21:04] <fsphil> so I've been told
[21:04] <daveake> A Roman number too
[21:04] <G0DJA> Well done fsphil
[21:04] <fsphil> it's a multifunctional callsign
[21:04] <Colin-g8tmv> No, VIM is not a valid Roman Numeral
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[21:04] <daveake> I didn't say "valid" :)
[21:05] <Colin-g8tmv> "Virtually Insane Man"?
[21:05] <daveake> very
[21:05] <BrainDamage> someone should get EM4CSY
[21:05] <fsphil> visually is meh
[21:06] <BrainDamage> then start endless disputes with MI0VIM
[21:06] <daveake> Very Infrequent notaMs
[21:06] <fsphil> hah
[21:06] <Colin-g8tmv> BrainDamage: You'd have to move to the Ukraine
[21:07] <DRAMAWAY> only for inviters
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[21:08] <BrainDamage> someone told me I should try to get a license, I replied asking if there's ham reserved portions of the xray spectrum, he didn't got back to me ever since
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[21:09] <navrac_home> I might go for a license -studied for it about 30 years ago - just need to find a good local club
[21:09] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: Decoding an #UKHAS High Altitude Balloon during our Fieldday this afternoon http://t.co/vPr6Zs0K [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/242006335238074368]
[21:10] <G0DJA> Very Interesting Morse?
[21:10] <fsphil> ooh
[21:10] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: where abouts do you live?
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[21:10] <navrac_home> just north of framlingham, suffolk
[21:11] <G0DJA> I used to be G6VMQ = Very Mild and Quiet but other people had other ideas...
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[21:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> good evening all! Back in the shack after the Fieldday
[21:12] <fsphil> welcome back!
[21:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha... thanks fsphil
[21:13] <navrac_home> you did well given the distance and fading
[21:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> it was nice to decode Joey from the fieldday today
[21:13] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: looks like Ipswich is your closest club http://www.btinternet.com/~gauntki/irc/
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[21:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> it was hard to decode
[21:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> lots of fading indeed navrac_home
[21:15] <Colin-g8tmv> Elmar_PD3EM: I'm not surprised it was difficult, it was pretty badly designed
[21:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> and an amazing QRG-shift after burst...
[21:16] <Colin-g8tmv> Hmm... navrac, their web site is about 6 years out of date - which doesn't bode well
[21:16] <navrac_home> it lost all its insulation and came downas a bare pcb
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[21:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> Colin-g8tmv: Some heavy QSB
[21:16] <navrac_home> yep was just reading that - i think there is one in saxmundham which is close
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[21:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> I saw the pics of payload after recovery! A bare PCB/batterypack!!
[21:17] <Colin-g8tmv> Elmar_PD3EM: yes, very *stupid*
[21:19] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: http://www.clubbz.com/club/33500/leiston/leiston-amateur-radio-club
[21:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> I got further with my payload tonight... Camera is taking photo's on an interval-base until SD-card is full..... now about time to build the isolation around all ;-)
[21:19] <navrac_home> thats the one
[21:20] <G0DJA> Could try Martlesham = http://www.mrs.bt.co.uk/page.php?2
[21:20] <navrac_home> theyve got a meeting on tuesday - demonstrating rtty helscreiber etc
[21:20] <G0DJA> Theyt run a good Microwave Round table there...
[21:21] <Colin-g8tmv> Ah http://larc.org.uk/ is the real site for the leiston club
[21:24] <navrac_home> I think ill go to the leiston meeting in October
[21:24] <G0DJA> My daughter is probably moving to Stowmarket in about a years time
[21:24] <G0DJA> So I might be spending more time in that area visiting
[21:25] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: for Foundation you can probably just read the book, do the practical and take the exam
[21:25] <navrac_home> pop in for a coffee - or when you're coming uneed some help- Ip ill do a launch
[21:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok..... Me in action decoding from the field... http://yfrog.com/nyj44cdj
[21:25] <navrac_home> practical?
[21:26] <Colin-g8tmv> yes, some basic soldering, an apprecian of morse and a couple of on-air qso's
[21:26] <Upu> foundation ?
[21:26] <Upu> just book yourself in navrac
[21:26] <Colin-g8tmv> licence
[21:26] <Upu> do that and intermediate at the same time
[21:27] <navrac_home> oops my laptop keeps jumping the insertion point so some sentences come out mixed up
[21:27] <Upu> you'll have no issues passing it
[21:27] <Colin-g8tmv> there is a small construction project required for the Intermediate too
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[21:28] <G0DJA> Try here navrac_home http://www.rsgb.org/arls/foundation_licence.php
[21:28] <Upu> yeah I passed that one with "here is my payload"
[21:28] <Colin-g8tmv> Upu: :)
[21:28] <Penfold> a late mutual fried of Colin, LazyL and I did all three in? how long was it, COlin?
[21:28] <Colin-g8tmv> 6 weeks
[21:29] <Upu> I had to study for the M0
[21:29] <Upu> but the other two i did at the same time
[21:29] <Colin-g8tmv> and that was mostly due to the schedule for the advanced
[21:29] <navrac_home> ah, ok so i can avoid the practical by just bringing something ive designed and built
[21:29] <Upu> well that was accepted by my club
[21:29] <Colin-g8tmv> navrac_home: yes,
[21:30] <navrac_home> my payloads never come back :-(
[21:30] <Upu> lol
[21:30] <Colin-g8tmv> but you still have to do the hf and vhf qso bit
[21:30] <Upu> show them it before you launch it
[21:30] <navrac_home> too close to the coast
[21:30] <Upu> mine was just a QSO with Chris M0PGE who was outside the club on a mobile
[21:30] <Upu> 5 and 9's
[21:30] <Upu> unsurprisingly
[21:31] <Colin-g8tmv> Upu: we usually set up something across town and turn the power down to make it more realistic
[21:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> that would have been 5/9++++++ ;-)
[21:31] <Upu> you have to prove your ears work by tuning in a sideband conversation
[21:32] <Colin-g8tmv> you'd be surprised at how many look at the meter while *transmitting* to give a reception report of ... err... end-stop
[21:32] <navrac_home> well im doing a combined arduino/rfm/ublox/2.4ghzvideo tx board at the moment - that should count
[21:32] <Upu> Easily
[21:32] <Colin-g8tmv> yeah, I think the requirement is more than 2 active componeants
[21:33] <Colin-g8tmv> the Maplin Sig gen kit is the most common one I think cause it's dirt cheap
[21:33] <navrac_home> i used to do a lot of swl in my teens - apart from my hearing going i think i can manage ssb!
[21:34] <Colin-g8tmv> which reminds me - Penfold *prod* how is yours coming along ;)
[21:35] <LazyLeopard> He took both Foundation and Intermediate exams about two weeks before he took the Advanced.
[21:35] <Penfold> Colin-g8tmv: strangely enough, I've been busy.
[21:35] <Colin-g8tmv> ;)
[21:36] <G0DJA> For one of the projects they used to like you to calibrate it - so a simple RX or signal generator was ideal
[21:37] <G0DJA> Or even an absorption wave meter :-)
[21:37] <LazyLeopard> ...and we both took the Advanced in Cambridge on 1st Feb 2011, as, I think, did jonsowman
[21:37] <Colin-g8tmv> G0DJA: I think it depends, if you are a spotty yoof then they look a bit closer than if you have a Phd in electronics
[21:37] Action: Penfold has AO level Electronics at A. A long LONG time ago.
[21:38] <navrac_home> ive got 2 degrees - so does that meen they give it a quite good look over then?
[21:38] <G0DJA> I've known some PHds that I wouldn't trust to calibrate a signal generator...
[21:38] <Colin-g8tmv> lol
[21:39] <G0DJA> They might know about the electron density in an atom but no idea of the difference between 1.8MHz and 1.8GHz...
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:39] Action: Laurenceb_ is doing a PhD
[21:40] Action: G0DJA is an Engineer ;-)
[21:40] Action: Colin-g8tmv is worse, I'm a Software Engineer
[21:40] Action: natrium42 is a fungineer
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander_> hi natrium42
[21:41] <natrium42> guten tag, kevin
[21:41] <G0DJA> Ah! The resident Scott Adams character? ;-)
[21:41] <G0DJA> Dilbert or Wally?
[21:42] <navrac_home> the boss?
[21:42] <G0DJA> He's not an Engineer though...
[21:43] <Colin-g8tmv> right - I've had enough of looking at screens for today - I'm off
[21:43] <Colin-g8tmv> G'night
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[21:43] <G0DJA> In temperament, more like Alice or Asis ?
[21:43] <LazyLeopard> The boss's only qualification is that he's pointy-haired...
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[21:43] <Elmar_PD3EM> time to go... goodnight
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander_> good night Elmar_PD3EM
[21:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks LL
[21:44] <G0DJA> Sorry - Asok
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[21:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> CUL
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander_> cu
[21:44] <navrac_home> goodnight
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[21:44] <G0DJA> Goodnight all those going
[21:45] <G0DJA> When I was an electrical engineer I kept getting asked if I could rewire peoples homes...
[21:46] <G0DJA> I used to answer "Yes, if you want it wired in 150mm consac or at 11kV..."
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:47] <navrac_home> I'd have gone with ' ican never rember which is the earth, the brownish one is the most esrthy colour but the green one is like grass..
[21:49] <G0DJA> Nowadays, over here, the phase colours are not Red Green Blue but Grey, Brown and Black !!! ffs...
[21:50] <G0DJA> So how do you make sure phase rotation is correct if "Red on the right at the rear" isn't valid anymore?
[21:53] <G0DJA> I tried explaining PME to someone once, all they kept saying was "but what's the difference between Neutral and Earth then?"
[21:54] <G0DJA> Star wound transformer diagrams really freaked them out...
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[21:54] <Penfold> :)
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[21:55] <G0DJA> I didn't dare try them with a zig-zag winding...
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[21:59] <G0DJA> However, a fair amount of alcohol can help before embarking on Positive, negative and zero pase sequence - Per Unit values seem to apeal to Phisics students though...
[21:59] <G0DJA> Physics - even
[21:59] <G0DJA> pase = phase
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[22:02] <G0DJA> It was amateur radio that helped me with impedance issues though, the effect at RF being so much more marked than at 50Hz but still important when getting your head arround ditributed L and C on overhead lines
[22:03] <G0DJA> Which brings me neatly back to a prime cause (other than trees) of difficulties recovering balloons - Ta Da!
[22:04] <G0DJA> But I'm probably talking to myself
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> HELLO <G0DJA>
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[22:49] Nick change: DRAMAWAY -> DRAMA
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[23:51] Nick change: Lunar_Lander_ -> Lunar_Lander
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[00:00] --- Sun Sep 2 2012