highaltitude.log.20120828

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[05:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
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[07:15] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
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[07:29] <fsphil> morrning
[07:30] <fsphil> long weekend wasn't long enough :)
[07:32] <MrScienceMan> they never are :)
[07:33] <daveake> very true
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[07:33] <MrScienceMan> hey, im wondering
[07:33] <MrScienceMan> is there a way to replay a flight on the google map
[07:33] <MrScienceMan> ?
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[08:50] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
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[09:15] <costyn> MrScienceMan: if you make a KML from the tracker data you should be able to see it in google earth
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[10:37] <MrScienceMan> costyn: how can i make a tour from the kmz file?
[10:38] <UpuWork> MrScienceMan
[10:38] <UpuWork> are you still wanting one of these HABAmps ?
[10:39] <MrScienceMan> rtl pream ?
[10:39] <MrScienceMan> preamp*
[10:39] <UpuWork> yep
[10:39] <MrScienceMan> whats the final price
[10:39] <UpuWork> You're on the list and I'm shipping
[10:39] <UpuWork> £20 inc postage and packing and delivery and soldering etc
[10:40] <gonzo_mob> mornkn upuwork
[10:40] <UpuWork> morning gonzo_mob
[10:40] <UpuWork> no pressure if you wont' want it
[10:40] <UpuWork> I have a list of people who want one
[10:40] <MrScienceMan> ill take one
[10:40] <MrScienceMan> :)
[10:40] <UpuWork> some have even paid me :)
[10:40] <UpuWork> PM
[10:40] <gonzo_mob> did i make it on to the first 20 lisr?
[10:41] <UpuWork> just outside it
[10:41] <UpuWork> I've ordered some more PCB's from China
[10:41] <gonzo_mob> you plan anothee batch?
[10:41] <UpuWork> yeah
[10:41] <gonzo_mob> rr
[10:42] <UpuWork> just want to get the first lot done so I can then put it on the shop and not have to chase people :)
[10:43] <navrac_work> Hi Upu - gave mine a bit of a test on friday - it worked well with the fcd
[10:44] <gonzo_mob> i can see myself havibg a few once the stock is avail
[10:44] <navrac_work> sadly no launches - but it turned a repeater i could only tell was there on usb into a useable signal
[10:45] <radim_OM2AMR> ping Lunar_Lander
[10:45] <gonzo_mob> the incoming filtering will be most useful
[10:45] <navrac_work> Sadly it also reinforced the fact that with so many oil monitors and alarms around Im going to have to get a directional aerial to hear anything on 434.075
[10:45] <UpuWork> they do work quite well
[10:46] <UpuWork> yeah that too :)
[10:46] <gonzo_mob> my qth is noiesy with strong sigs
[10:46] <Darkside> the amp won't help you if the sigs are betwen 430-440mhz
[10:46] <navrac_work> it helped with out of band - which i dont get a lot of to be fair.
[10:46] <Darkside> but yeah, ouy of band it'll help a lot
[10:47] <gonzo_mob> mainly vhf pagers nesr me. so a wide lna is not ideal
[10:47] <Darkside> as was the intention
[10:47] <Darkside> yeah, this will help with vhf pagers for sure
[10:47] <navrac_work> its just 433.8- 434.0 is swamped really badly round here
[10:47] <navrac_work> so its back up with the yagi
[10:48] <Darkside> gonzo_mob: i mainly wanted it to remove the government pagers that are everywhere in australia
[10:49] <gonzo_mob> i will put up a dedicated hab ant for rx only with an lna. feeding the r x. that rx is tuneable with spectraview. so i can do remote hab rx
[10:49] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[10:49] <gonzo_mob> the yaesu is nice but no remote tune (yet)
[10:49] <navrac_work> well it certainly was a worthwhile investment for me - now I just need someone to launch to do some real world A/B comparisons
[10:50] <cuddykid> hmm - predictions look good for thursday but don't have permission&. might give David a bell and see what he can do
[10:50] <gonzo_mob> your repeater test wsd orob qualification enough
[10:51] <gonzo_mob> was prob
[10:51] <navrac_work> well yes - but I still want to see how much earlier I can pull in payloads
[10:51] <UpuWork> it does make a noticable difference
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[11:23] <costyn> MrScienceMan: not sure, sorry. you'd have to RTFM of Google earth
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[11:27] <daveake> I'm confused. A KMZ is just a compressed KML file and Google Earth can open that directly
[11:27] <Randomskk> yes
[11:27] <Darkside> it should be able to
[11:27] <Randomskk> well-
[11:27] <Randomskk> it's a specific compressed kml
[11:27] <Randomskk> it's generally a zip file
[11:27] <Randomskk> with one or more kml files and a specific directory structure inside
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[11:28] <Randomskk> for adding resources and stuff
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[11:30] <fsphil> I've a huge amount of out of band signals here and the filter gets rid of them all
[11:31] <fsphil> thankfully the ism stuff isn't too bad here
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[11:31] <MrScienceMan> costyn: i just got a screenshot of the path
[11:31] <daveake> It's mostly quiet here aside from the odd bleep from an oil sender* or whatever
[11:31] <daveake> * probably mine
[11:32] <MrScienceMan> thought there might soem sort of roller coaster ride over the points
[11:32] <MrScienceMan> but hey :)
[11:32] <Darkside> daveake: oil sender?
[11:32] <daveake> We have oil fired central heating
[11:33] <daveake> The level gauge at the side of the tank is always crudded up, so I put an ultrasonic sender to the top of the tank
[11:33] <costyn> MrScienceMan: sorry, not sure how to get it to be so you can replay it; read the docs :)
[11:33] <daveake> That sends the level every so often to a receiver in the house with a level display on it
[11:34] <MrScienceMan> costyn: cant be bothered tbh :P
[11:34] <Darkside> daveake: ahh ok
[11:34] <costyn> MrScienceMan: hehe ok :)
[11:35] <fsphil> how well does that work daveake?
[11:35] <fsphil> been considering something similar
[11:35] <daveake> Very
[11:35] <daveake> The tank is hidden behind the garage so it's a pain to get to
[11:35] <daveake> So no need now :)
[11:35] <fsphil> the only one I've seen had a very useless LCD showing three levels
[11:36] <daveake> Well the oil tanker man has to get there, but that's his problem :p
[11:36] <fsphil> empty / half / full
[11:36] <daveake> Ah
[11:36] <daveake> justamo
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[11:37] <daveake> One of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchman-Sonic-Wireless-Oil-Fuel-Tank-Level-Meter-Kingspan-Sensor-Systems-Titan-/290646499539?pt=UK_DIY_Materials_Plumbing_MJ&hash=item43abe1a0d3#ht_1910wt_1163
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[11:41] <fsphil> neat
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[11:44] <Penfold> also worth noting things like currentcost's wireless mains power meter and teh orgegon scientific weather modulkes use 433.92MHz or thereabouts.
[11:45] <Darkside> lots of things use 433.92mhz
[11:45] <Penfold> of which there at least three chez moi
[11:48] <DanielRichman> Darkside: iirc you suggested use of dtostrf?
[11:49] <DanielRichman> have you compiled something with dtostrf using the arduino IDE?
[11:49] <Darkside> yep
[11:49] <DanielRichman> (I don't have the IDE installed and am looking at improving that common errors payload testing page)
[11:49] <Darkside> lemme check, i don't think you need any special include lines
[11:49] <DanielRichman> was wondering if it works out of the box or requires beating
[11:50] <DanielRichman> and if so, is this correct (dtostrf seems to be an arduino thing so can't compile something for my desktop)
[11:50] <DanielRichman> dstrtof(lat, 8, 6, s); // == "54.086611"
[11:50] <DanielRichman> s/arduino/avr/
[11:50] <Darkside> ahh i think it has leading spaces
[11:51] <Darkside> and i added a trim function to remove that
[11:51] <DanielRichman> that's odd
[11:51] <DanielRichman> docs say it should produce something in the format "[-]d.ddd"
[11:59] <DanielRichman> either way, here's my attempt at revising that page: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[12:13] <Penfold> DanielRichman: typo - "Theoretically the Equator not really an issue" ? missing 'is', I assume :D
[12:13] <DanielRichman> Penfold: thanks :)
[12:13] <eroomde> s/theoretically/practically
[12:13] <eroomde> as of course it is an issue theoretically
[12:14] <DanielRichman> (i didn't write that bit :P)
[12:14] <DanielRichman> though I did introduce the 'is' problem
[12:14] <DanielRichman> (fixed)
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[12:15] <DanielRichman> *fixed both
[12:16] <UpuWork> Penfold I typed most of that so its highly likely there are missing words, sorry English isn't my first language I'm from Yorkshire
[12:22] <Penfold> UpuWork: 'appen I were born in Garforth, so it meks perfect sense t'me.
[12:22] <nick_> Yorkshire born, Yorkshire bred, strong in the arm...
[12:23] <LazyLeopard> <-- foreign.
[12:23] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[12:23] <Penfold> LazyLeopard: southerner, and then some :D
[12:23] <LazyLeopard> That too. Negative latitude and all that. ;)
[12:23] <Penfold> So, tell us. Is the equator practically a problem? :D :D :D
[12:24] Action: Penfold pokes Amazon order tracking.
[12:24] <eroomde> You're doing well if it is
[12:24] <LazyLeopard> Not sure there're any HABbers in Kenya at present. ;)
[12:25] <Penfold> 'out for delivery' - ah well, bet I'll miss it. although., TBH. depending on packaging, it might fit through teh letter box
[12:25] <LazyLeopard> ...though I did appear to be tracking from there once after I came back and forgot to reset my location in fldigi...
[12:26] <Penfold> :D
[12:26] <Penfold> did you find any equator bugs in fldigi :D :D
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> Can't say I remember doing so...
[12:29] <nick_> I wish there were amazon lockers here
[12:29] <eroomde> a lot of trackers seem to live on a small island off niger
[12:29] <nick_> (or I would if I didn't have a porter to receive pacakges for me)
[12:30] <eroomde> maybe they rely on ham radio to stay in contact with the rest of the world
[12:30] <LazyLeopard> Heh. At least my location had non-zero co-ordinates... ;)
[12:31] Action: fsphil imagines an island made of lost payloads at 0,0
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[12:37] <eroomde> enough of them to make an island
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[12:46] Action: cuddykid wonders if David Miller is at work today
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[12:48] <eroomde> cuddykid: he might be in his office
[12:48] <eroomde> but 'at work' could mean other things
[12:48] <cuddykid> not answering his phone - I'll keep trying
[12:52] <fsphil> definitely no launch here this weekend even if the caa do their thing, predictions are still awful
[12:54] <cuddykid> wth - the prediction has just changed to completely mental - must be a bug&. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d3cbe436b8ed8c887871bcbe7b83964cbd843fb6
[12:56] <fsphil> hah
[12:56] <Randomskk> no I'm pretty sure that's right :P
[12:56] <cuddykid> it was going to land in chipping norton about an hour ago lol
[12:57] <fsphil> if I did a pico that floated: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=ec4ea0bbdfc265a3d3c18b4816a5d5e65ee44738
[12:57] <cuddykid> haha
[12:57] <cuddykid> love the variation, just 3 hrs later this happens -> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3eb380e7864433eda68274528260cfd3f09004e8
[12:58] <fsphil> it appears to be deflected from Belgium
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[13:50] Nick change: eroomde -> meteorite
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[13:52] <nosebleedkt> here it is my new video :)
[13:52] <nosebleedkt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T515pU2Crcs
[13:55] Nick change: meteorite -> eroomde
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[14:09] Nick change: eroomde -> eroomdead
[14:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Bessant "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[14:11] Nick change: eroomdead -> eroomde
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[15:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:07] <nick_> Hi Lunar_Lander
[15:08] Action: nick_ is struggling to find DACs with enough I2C addresses for his liking.
[15:11] <Randomskk> use SPI
[15:11] <Randomskk> faster, more synchronised for DACs
[15:11] <Randomskk> plus as many as you can have address lines
[15:13] <nick_> I'm not sure I want to give them all an address line
[15:14] <nick_> I found some DACs that have 4 addresses
[15:14] <Randomskk> use i2c io expanders then :P
[15:14] <nick_> I need to set 2 voltages on each board
[15:14] <nick_> And I'd like to support up to 6 boards
[15:15] <nick_> But 4 boards would probably be fine
[15:16] <nick_> So if I can find two different suitable DACs which each give me 2 address bits to play with then that could work
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[15:20] <zyp> if you need lots of equal devices on a I2C bus, you could use an I2C switch to split the bus into one for each
[15:22] <zyp> http://www.ti.com/product/pca9548a <- like this, for instance
[15:22] <cuddykid> turns out David wasn't in today - phoned AU Ops and they were very helpful - hopefully can get permission arranged for thursday!
[15:26] <daveake> cool
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[15:35] <Penfold> ooo. look. an amazon package containing a DVB-T dongle
[15:36] <fsphil> love it when those arrive
[15:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Potential Launch This Thursday (30/08/2012) - Worcester Area"
[15:41] <fsphil> good luck!
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[16:37] <nick_> Is there an eagle library that has just have generic chip pinouts, I'm specifically looking for sot23-5
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[16:41] <eroomde> nick_: libraries are specific devices, a combined package and symbol
[16:42] <nick_> Yeah
[16:42] <eroomde> if you want to make a new part, find an existing part which is sot23-5, right click on it, it will give u the option to copy to your own library
[16:42] <eroomde> from in your own library you can then just straight-use the footprint, but design a new symbol, then map the symbol pins to the part pins and save it as a new part
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[16:46] <zyp> there is a library in the default distribution containing only footprints
[16:46] <zyp> it's called «footprints» or something like that
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[16:51] Nick change: Burn_ -> Burninate
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[17:20] <nick_> eroomde: sorry, a friend came to fistract me for ages
[17:21] <nick_> Where should I right click on a part to make my own version?
[17:21] <eroomde> you need your own library open
[17:22] <eroomde> so make one if u don;t have one
[17:22] <eroomde> file>new>library or whatever
[17:22] <eroomde> then go to that naviagtor window thing that eagle always has open
[17:22] <nick_> ok
[17:22] <eroomde> and find a part of sybol you want to copy from the list of libraries
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[17:23] <eroomde> right click on that
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[17:24] <nick_> hmm
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[17:26] <nick_> OK, copied it to my library
[17:26] <nick_> Aha, I see
[17:26] <nick_> Now I can rename the pins
[17:27] Action: craag takes notes..
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[17:31] <nick_> Oof, I've confused myself
[17:33] <nick_> Somehow I lost it :(
[17:36] <nick_> OK, I redid it and now I have my chip :)
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[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello MrScienceMan
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> hello Lunar_Lander
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> always so polite
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> :)
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> hello all
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> :) hello Dan-K2VOL
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> MrScienceMan, did you recover the payloads?
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> yep
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> everything is good
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> what was on the payloads?
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> phoenix1 lost a temp sensor and the chute
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm going to be submitting freedom of information act requests to a few US govt agencies for balloon info, anyone know of anything good that you're missing?
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[18:10] <MrScienceMan> some slight damage on the electronics
[18:11] <MrScienceMan> TINY was in excellent condition
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, that doesn't include papers you can get from the
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah the civilian DTIC
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> NTIS
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> right, it's stuff you can't get through any other way
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> wait
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[18:13] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: accident rate for NOAA
[18:13] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: or incidents, payouts, what the cost was
[18:13] <Dan-K2VOL> ahhh very interesting idea there
[18:13] <Randomskk> how many sondes are returned vs lost
[18:14] <Randomskk> how many land on a road, how many caused a road accident
[18:14] <Randomskk> how many landed on property and caused damage
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> this is interesting
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> on DTIC you can get "RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF HIGH ALTITUDE PLASTIC BALLOONS"
[18:14] <Randomskk> and what the payout was in each case
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> actually they put up Volumes 5, 6, 7 and 8 of the 16 volumes
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> NTIS doesn't have them
[18:14] <Dan-K2VOL> the papers from the 1950s were very good
[18:14] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm also missing the rest lunar, I'll put those on the list
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[18:27] <costyn> UpuWork: ping
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[18:47] <costyn> anybody tried to use the temp sensor on the rfm22b yet?
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> back
[18:52] <costyn> daveake: in your 3.3v tracker, do you program it with serial or using an ISP?
[18:52] <cuddykid> anyone have an idea where I could get an astronaut beanie/toy/figure similar to daveake's buzz - thinking of doing a tribute to Neil Armstrong if I can get hold of something in time!
[18:52] <costyn> cuddykid: have you checked ebay?
[18:52] <cuddykid> costyn: yeah, couldn't find much
[18:53] <costyn> that would be the biggest chance I think :)
[18:53] <Randomskk> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTHENTIC-NEIL-ARMSTRONG-SIGNED-REPRINT-/251139310009
[18:53] <daveake> costyn I use an FTDI adapter, but only because there's no ISP connector on the mini pro
[18:53] <cuddykid> well, anything that looked half like a resemblance of an actual NASA astronaut
[18:53] <cuddykid> Randomskk: saw those, they look good
[18:54] <costyn> daveake: ok, so these docs are the for mini != pro mini http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/MiniBootloader
[18:54] <kokey> does anyone use auditd?
[18:54] <kokey> oops, wrong window
[18:55] <daveake> costyn: Yeah, I've just not done it yet
[18:55] <daveake> Easy to do tho
[18:55] <costyn> daveake: ah ok, so it's there, just no connector
[18:57] <costyn> daveake: with my previous seeedstudio stalker, I'd ahve to disconnect the gpsbee before I could program it because the gps interfered with programming through serial; is this not a problem on your tracker?
[18:57] <daveake> It is a problem, and I put a switch inline with GPS Tx --> Arduino so I can program
[18:57] <daveake> The ISP option would be better
[18:58] <costyn> clever :)
[18:58] <costyn> ok I know enough, thanks for the info!
[18:58] <costyn> going to go the ISP route
[18:58] <daveake> :)
[18:59] <costyn> and as a general question; I saw in the AVA code that Upu uses softserial to talk to the GPS. I was under the impression that that was asking for trouble?
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[19:00] <Upu> Evening costyn
[19:00] <costyn> talk of the devil :)
[19:00] <Upu> it does work but I couldn't get it working properly at 9600 and had to drop the speed to 4800
[19:01] <Upu> my recommendation is use hardware serial
[19:01] <costyn> Upu: ok thanks for the info
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[19:06] <Upu> Ah Mr Lander
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeaj
[19:06] <Upu> a quick word in you ear
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> -j
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:06] <Upu> pm
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[19:09] <costyn> Upu: are these guys really expensive or are you really cheap? http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=62
[19:10] <Upu> Thats what I should be charging :)
[19:10] <Darkside> Upu is just awesome
[19:10] <Upu> that module is wrong anyway
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:10] <Upu> they ignore the data sheet and run the RF under the module
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[19:10] <costyn> Upu: yes, you should be making more money from this enterprise. you're too nice :)
[19:10] <Upu> I'll bear that in mind next time you order
[19:10] <Upu> :)
[19:11] <daveake> Can't believe he's a Yorkshireman :p
[19:11] <fsphil> :p
[19:11] <costyn> Upu: ;) interesting that their design is crap :)
[19:11] <Upu> in fairness all the randoms buying the modules are subsidising if for you
[19:11] <Upu> Well I wouldn't say crap but the datasheet does clearly state don't run the RF under the module
[19:11] <costyn> hehe ok... you getting a lot of non-HAB customers?
[19:11] <Upu> and they clearly do on that
[19:11] <Upu> yeah
[19:12] <costyn> i re-sold one of my units to a coworker who wanted it for a small roobot
[19:12] <Upu> anyway I made a new version of the Arduino board
[19:12] <Upu> with the battery holder on the bottom and with an active Sarantel antenna
[19:12] <costyn> backup battery?
[19:12] <Upu> yeah
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[19:12] <costyn> nice
[19:12] <Upu> non-Habby people are asking for it
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:13] <Upu> and the active antenna means solid locks in < 30s from cold and better performance indoors
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> we are getting famous
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> :P
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[19:13] <costyn> so what's the low-down on the I2C interface on the ublox modules; it's serial over the i2c if I remember correctly? google is not being very helpful at the moment
[19:13] <Upu> I don't think their level conversion is properly isolated either
[19:13] <Upu> its done via dividers, I do mine using a FET
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke tested that some days ago IIRC
[19:14] <Upu> I have no idea costyn
[19:14] <Upu> never used it
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[19:14] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: yea I remember seeing something here on IRC
[19:14] <costyn> Upu: ok
[19:14] <Upu> check datasheets out
[19:14] <fsphil> I'd like to try it on I2C some time, to free up the uart
[19:15] <daveake> would be good for the pi
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[19:15] <fsphil> ah yes
[19:15] <Upu> but yes its annoying they are so high up google link me in all your blogs :)
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:16] <costyn> Upu: :)
[19:16] <costyn> DrLuke: ping
[19:16] <fsphil> I need to do a weblog sometime
[19:16] <fsphil> not that I've much to say
[19:16] <DrLuke> costyn: yeah?
[19:16] <costyn> DrLuke: did you test I2C onthe ublox max 6q modules?
[19:16] <DrLuke> yeah
[19:17] <costyn> any good?
[19:17] <DrLuke> yep
[19:17] <DrLuke> it's just a bytestream just like uart
[19:18] <costyn> ok
[19:18] <Upu> am I going to have to break those out
[19:18] <Upu> ?
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[19:18] <DrLuke> the first 2 registers tell you how many bytes there are to be read, and then you repeatedly read the last byte
[19:18] <costyn> Upu: they are already? I'm seeing SCL and SDA?
[19:18] <Upu> they are on the 3.3v modules
[19:18] <Upu> not on the 5v ones
[19:18] <DrLuke> well it's handy if you want to use the UART for something else
[19:18] <costyn> Upu: ah, i've got 3.3's here
[19:18] <DrLuke> and really easy to implement
[19:18] <DrLuke> (in code)
[19:19] <DrLuke> if you want (and remind me tomorrow) I can write a wiki article on how to do it on avr and arduino
[19:19] <costyn> DrLuke: sounds good; are the details of the bytestream in the datasheet?
[19:19] <costyn> DrLuke: that would be most awesome
[19:19] <DrLuke> the bytestream is just the NMEA string
[19:19] <costyn> ok
[19:21] <costyn> so looks like I've got some options: either GPS on UART, programming AVR through ISP, or option 2: GPS on I2C and programming AVR through UART
[19:21] <DrLuke> you can have both on the same
[19:21] <costyn> more familiar with option 1, but would like to learn about option 2 :)
[19:22] <costyn> DrLuke: yep, there is option 3 of GPS on I2C and programming AVR through ISP but that would be extra challenging :)
[19:22] <DrLuke> I'd just go with the isp choice
[19:22] <costyn> (for me)
[19:22] <DrLuke> well
[19:22] <DrLuke> not really, I can give you my code
[19:22] <DrLuke> using peter fleury's i2c library
[19:22] <DrLuke> it's really easy
[19:23] <DrLuke> hang on while I pastebin it
[19:23] <costyn> DrLuke: cool, would like to see it
[19:24] <costyn> fsphil: re weblogs, I started one when I started HABbing, but stopped updating after a few posts
[19:25] <DrLuke> costyn: http://pastebin.com/nUpCQHqZ
[19:25] <DrLuke> it's not yet tested that much though
[19:25] <DrLuke> might be there's some bugs
[19:25] <fsphil> I suspect that's how mine would work too costyn
[19:25] <fsphil> I've a regular old fashion web page for hab stuff
[19:26] <costyn> DrLuke: ok, well I'm not going to blindly copy/paste it :) just want to play with it and get it working with the hardware
[19:26] <costyn> DrLuke: thanks in any case
[19:26] <DrLuke> no worries
[19:26] <costyn> fsphil: the ukhas wiki might be a place to document stuff too, although it's not that great for uploading lots of pics
[19:27] <DrLuke> costyn: you can find the libs here: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/peterfleury/avr-software.html
[19:28] <mclane> Hi, someone has experience with the Radiometrix TX3H 868 MHz 450 mW module?
[19:28] <costyn> DrLuke: thanks!
[19:28] <DrLuke> you're welcome
[19:29] <DrLuke> upu: it's definitely worth breaking them out on any board
[19:29] <DrLuke> together with the timepulse pin
[19:29] <Upu> yeah I just figured Arduino users would be confused by then :)
[19:29] <DrLuke> then you can prevent reading too often/not often enough
[19:29] <Upu> them
[19:30] <DrLuke> eh
[19:30] <Upu> I'm redoing the board anyway with the active antenna
[19:30] <DrLuke> oh
[19:30] <costyn> Upu: the 3.3v one has the TIME pin, that's it right?
[19:31] <DrLuke> the module I bought doesn't, which really bugs me
[19:31] <DrLuke> ;(
[19:31] <costyn> you have the 5v one
[19:31] <costyn> ?
[19:31] <DrLuke> next time I'm buying from upu
[19:31] <DrLuke> nah, it's some ebay one
[19:31] <costyn> ah
[19:31] <Upu> yes the 3.3V has the TP output
[19:32] <costyn> Upu's are really nice, and really cheap :)
[19:32] <DrLuke> well, when I ordered mine I didn't know about upu's shop yet
[19:32] <DrLuke> and I guess for my next flight I'll make my own board anyways
[19:32] <costyn> DrLuke: I figured as much :)
[19:33] <Upu> the reason I left them off was I didn't know how to drop the voltages if needed
[19:33] <costyn> what's the best way to glue the cap on the sarantel antenna? hot glue?
[19:33] <Upu> hot glue
[19:33] <Upu> tbh I've started doing it
[19:33] <Darkside> i use araldite
[19:33] <costyn> (just a few dabs along the edge I guess)
[19:33] <DrLuke> upu: there's a really simple mosfet level shifter circuit available
[19:33] <DrLuke> you could just use that
[19:33] <Upu> and hot glue the little "cave"
[19:33] <Darkside> costyn: the datasheet says use araldite
[19:33] <Darkside> it'll be stronger
[19:33] <Upu> I use that for the level conversion on the serial but I'm not sure if it just works for I2C
[19:34] <Upu> something I need to test
[19:34] <costyn> Darkside: araldite is always stronger :)
[19:34] <Upu> Hot glue is solid
[19:35] <costyn> I like hot glue because you can take it off many surfaces without leaving a residue if necessary and it's hard quickly and easy to get off your hands :)
[19:35] <DrLuke> hot glue isn't really a glue
[19:35] <costyn> nope
[19:35] <costyn> all those reasons I listed are things you don't really want in a glue
[19:35] <costyn> ;)
[19:35] <DrLuke> :)
[19:36] <DrLuke> just sayin'
[19:36] <DrLuke> it should be called hot molten rubbery plastic
[19:37] <costyn> it does allright on porous surfaces like fabrics and wood
[19:37] <costyn> but pretty terrible for plastics
[19:37] <costyn> and other smooth surfaces
[19:37] <Upu> I've used it on alot of antennas and it works well
[19:38] <DrLuke> yeah
[19:38] <DrLuke> on plastics you need a hook-ish shape for it to stick
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[19:39] <costyn> Upu: where exactly do you put the glue? just a dollop on the inside of the cap? you said something about a cave which I didn't get
[19:39] <Upu> I just wizz it round inside the cap and then push it in place
[19:40] <Upu> the cave is the bit where the 3 prongs solder to the PCB
[19:40] <costyn> Upu: ah
[19:40] <costyn> Upu: that bit needs some hot glue too?
[19:40] <Upu> yeah just fill it
[19:40] <costyn> gotcha
[19:41] Action: Penfold plays with HDSDR and his nice bright red Realtek DVB-T :D
[19:41] <costyn> DrLuke: so your code basically reads the gps bytestream and writes it to serial correct?
[19:42] <DrLuke> costyn: I store it in a malloc'd array and then just print it, yes
[19:42] <DrLuke> but you could send it to some processing function just as well
[19:42] <costyn> DrLuke: right
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[19:53] <costyn> derp... the pro mini ISP programming tutorial says you should remove the pin 13 LED
[19:54] <daveake> saves weight too :)
[19:55] <costyn> but the led is nice to use to indicate gps lock
[19:55] <costyn> hehe
[19:56] <costyn> the tutorial is just silly "note that you will have to remove the LED on pin 13 during programming" <-- yea I'm going to resolder it after I remove it
[19:56] <costyn> only during programming I'll solder it off
[19:58] <DrLuke> I'd desolder the entire arduino
[19:58] <DrLuke> and only leave the avr
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[20:02] <daveake> There's hardly anything else there anyway
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[20:11] <costyn> no, just a power reg and the led, and the avr
[20:11] <costyn> (seems like)
[20:11] <DrLuke> well yeah
[20:12] <DrLuke> I'm just not very found of arduino
[20:12] <DrLuke> starting with the horrible horrible IDE
[20:12] <DrLuke> and things like analogWrite()
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[20:16] <Laurenceb_> IFE
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> integrated fail environment
[20:19] Action: Penfold_ hrms - anyone played with HDSDR and a realtek dongle?
[20:20] <Penfold_> It's clearly picking *somnething* up - I can see what I'd lay odds are the varius 433HMz wireless senders for various monitoring things around here, but it's all down in the noise floor at minus a lot, even with the gain whacked up
[20:21] <Penfold_> even with the crappy supplied antenna I'd expect better
[20:21] <DrLuke> show us a screenshot
[20:24] <Darkside> Penfold_: the crappy supplied antenna is indeed crappy
[20:24] <Darkside> try something better
[20:25] <Penfold_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i97k28ec3fqy6ms/hdsdr.png
[20:25] <Penfold_> Darkside: I will when I have something better
[20:25] <Darkside> thats not really that down in the noise
[20:25] <Darkside> looks like something local is overpowering it too
[20:30] <KT5TK_QRL> I get the same lines when I have the receiver too close to my flatscreen monitor.
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[20:31] <KT5TK_QRL> Try to VNC into that computer and turn the monitor off for testing
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[20:33] <Penfold_> tricky, it's a laptop. USB extension cable time, methinks
[20:33] Penfold (~mike@alysande.altrion.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[20:34] <Penfold_> however, THAT was the other laptop :D
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[20:34] <KT5TK_QRL> then get a USB extension chord. If possible block with a ferrite choke
[20:36] <KT5TK_QRL> It's easy to get the screen off from a laptop.
[20:36] <KT5TK_QRL> Just sometimes it may be difficult to get it back on ;)
[20:37] <Penfold_> *grin*
[20:38] <Penfold_> actually, persuading a Macbook to drop into clamshell mode isn't that hard
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[20:39] <Laurenceb_> lcd screens tend to put out a lot of noise
[20:39] <KT5TK_QRL> Yep. Those LCD screens really poison our hf.
[20:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - XABEN-33"
[20:39] <KT5TK_QRL> Sometimes more than CRTs
[20:41] Action: Penfold_ ponders hanging this off the server, which is headless, but that does involve running up a different install of the rtl sdr driver
[20:42] <Penfold_> but I could I guess then run up borip server and still run the head end on the laptop in the living room :D
[20:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Good idea
[20:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Now you only need to move the server to the attic
[20:44] <Penfold_> actually, I already have USB-over-CAT5 into the attic for the solar panels, so I could just run another one?. :D
[20:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Can you split the Cat5?
[20:45] <Penfold_> no, but I ran shitloads when we first bought the house :D
[20:45] <KT5TK_QRL> good call
[20:46] <Penfold_> and just ran anotehr 8 when we converted the otgher loft :D
[20:46] <KT5TK_QRL> That should be sufficient
[20:46] <KT5TK_QRL> Put up a RTL dongle for each band *)
[20:47] <Penfold_> hopefully the inverter for the solar doesn't generate too much RFI. :D
[20:48] <KT5TK_QRL> Which one do you have? My Solar inverter is quite ok
[20:48] <Penfold_> SMA
[20:49] <Penfold_> currently outputting via a BT2 dongle on the end of about 20m of CAT 5 back to the server, which is inconveniently sited at the other end of the house :D
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[20:50] <KT5TK_QRL> Don't know about the HF properties of SMA. I have a Xantrex
[20:50] <KT5TK_QRL> USB is supposed to be 5 meters max, I believe
[20:50] <KT5TK_QRL> So hope it'll work
[20:51] <Penfold_> that's USB. usb over cat5 has considerable more range
[20:51] <Penfold_> 50m+
[20:51] <KT5TK_QRL> Good. I hope the RTL dongle works through that.
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[20:52] <Penfold_> that I can test pretty easily, by nobbling the solar for a bit :D
[20:52] <KT5TK_QRL> Try it at night so that you don't loose green energY...
[20:53] <Penfold_> hah.
[20:53] <Penfold_> it's o nly monitoring
[20:53] <Penfold_> and it knows to go back and ask the inverter for what it missed
[20:53] <Penfold_> :)
[20:54] <KT5TK_QRL> cool.
[20:54] <Penfold_> actually, I could just be entertainingly evil and wang a usb hub up there as a first test :D
[20:56] <KT5TK_QRL> might work. the solar monitor certainly doesn't use up too much bandwidth.
[20:56] <Penfold_> about 200 bytes every 5 seconds :D
[20:57] <Penfold_> right, that's tomorrow's project :D
[20:57] <Penfold_> thanks for allowing me to think aloud at you :D
[21:08] Action: Penfold_ plays 'how many packages aren't installed on the server that he thought were'
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[21:17] <Penfold_> Configured gr-baz release 3.3git for build. <--- while (! configure) do sudo apt-get install <next missing package>; done :D
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> evening RocketBoy, I read you are ready to launch again?
[21:18] <RocketBoy> yeah - just a small quick one
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[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> what will it carry?
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[21:19] <lb50> hello.
[21:19] <RocketBoy> just a small video camera - not HD
[21:19] <lb50> hey guys, i was wondering if anyone's done a launch in heavy rain
[21:19] <lb50> say 2mm
[21:19] <RocketBoy> the whole payload is about 50g
[21:19] <lb50> is it possible?
[21:19] <RocketBoy> yep - launched in rain
[21:20] <RocketBoy> not a nice experiance but doable
[21:20] <lb50> can you tell me what it was like?
[21:20] <lb50> and how bad was the rain
[21:20] <RocketBoy> just allow a little more flift or the balloon envelope to get wet
[21:20] <lb50> ok, how will this impact the lift
[21:21] <lb50> because we are launching in a park and cannot afford to have the balloon lose lift and crash into someones home
[21:21] <RocketBoy> it was sort of mid rain - not heavy - but not light either
[21:22] <RocketBoy> well it depends on your payload balloon etc
[21:22] <lb50> bbc weather is saying heavy rain
[21:22] <lb50> do u reckon its ok?
[21:22] <lb50> balloon is 1000g
[21:22] <lb50> hwoyee
[21:22] <lb50> and the payload is 1.6kg
[21:22] <RocketBoy> how many trees are there
[21:23] <lb50> a few outlining the park
[21:23] <RocketBoy> send the lat/lon I'll take a quick google
[21:23] <lb50> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=easington+park+banbury&ie=UTF-8
[21:23] <lb50> thanks bro
[21:23] <lb50> :0
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, you have the cutdown on this one too?
[21:24] <RocketBoy> personally I would avoid it if its your first launch and you don't have someone who hasn't previously launched along
[21:25] <lb50> oh :(
[21:25] <lb50> why?
[21:25] <lb50> and by a large degree?
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> omg nasa
[21:26] <RocketBoy> well its just one more complication in a totally new experiance for you
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> what have they been smoking
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> just saw the will.i.am video
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, you have the cutdown on this one too?
[21:26] <lb50> ok, well thanks RocketBoy. if we did go ahead, any advice
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[21:30] <RocketBoy> make sure the payload is waterproof and overfill the balloon by a couple of hundred grams at least.
[21:31] <RocketBoy> what day U launching
[21:31] <lb50> tmo
[21:31] <lb50> ok i will put my whole helium canister into it
[21:31] <RocketBoy> how much is that?
[21:31] <lb50> payload is already waterproof, because the predicted landing is close to the sea
[21:32] <lb50> 3.6l
[21:32] <lb50> thats the capacity of the canister
[21:32] <lb50> size T
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, you have the cutdown on this one too?
[21:36] <RocketBoy> Well thats just enough - 1000g balloon, 1.6Kg payload, 3.6cum = 4.5m/sec ascent rate
[21:36] <RocketBoy> na no cutdown on this one LL
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[21:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Kevin Walton "[UKHAS] Re: First HAB Project Tracker"
[21:38] <lb50> what do you mean no cutdown
[21:39] <RocketBoy> no cutdown device on my flight Thursday - a seperation device between the chute and balloon
[21:40] <lb50> thanks for your help mate. i really wanted to do this launch, but i guess you dont win them all
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[21:41] <RocketBoy> just my view - but heavy rain wouldn't be my choice for a first launch
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, you use a hot wire when you fly a cutdown?
[21:43] <lb50> how bad is heavy rain
[21:43] <RocketBoy> I use one of two designs depending on my mood - either a cord over a resistor or a pyrotechnic igniter based design
[21:44] <lb50> is 3mm of rain a lot for a launch
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> do you do writeups of your flights?
[21:47] <lb50> since theres no feasible alternative to launching tomorrow, as i have discovered through a packed calender
[21:47] <lb50> so, thats the only thing I can do
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[21:48] <RocketBoy> LL - don't get time before the next one is on
[21:49] <RocketBoy> I make notes for myself though
[21:50] <RocketBoy> most of the stuff thats applicable to others I put on the wiki yonks ago.
[21:52] <daveake> lb50 There are some other HABbers not too far from Banbury. eroomde for a start, and I'm not that much further away
[21:53] <lb50> ok, so what do you guys think
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, the resistor you mention, how is it controlled? via a MOSFET?
[21:53] <daveake> lb50 You're launching tomorrow?
[21:53] <RocketBoy> LL yep
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[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> and the other thing is like a spark and match heads?
[21:56] <RocketBoy> strangly cant see a NOTAM on NOTAMinfo for banbury tomorrow?
[21:56] <daveake> lb50 Launching from Banbury tomorrow with that profile looks like a fair chance of a salt water landing to me
[21:57] <lb50> oh dear
[21:58] <daveake> lb50 Did you apply for, and receive, launch permission from the CAA for a launch from Banbury tomorrow?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy,
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> and the other thing is like a spark and match heads?
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[22:00] <RocketBoy> nore like a fuse wire over a match head
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:00] <RocketBoy> very fine wire - like a light bulb
[22:01] <RocketBoy> embedded in the pyrogen
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[22:02] <daveake> I guess he's gone to find out
[22:05] <craag> I'm looking at doing a pico flight, payload <60g. I'm aware that a NOTAM is not required but do I still need to phone ATC or anything?
[22:06] <fsphil> not required, but just make sure the predictions keep it away from airports
[22:06] <RocketBoy> yeah - the rule is less that a 2m dia balloon at any point in the flight
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, thanks
[22:07] <RocketBoy> yeah - still need to be sensible
[22:07] <daveake> Check for restricted areas near the launch site.
[22:07] <daveake> There's one near here, over Harwell.
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, and what battery do you connect to that?
[22:08] <craag> Ok, I'm in Southampton so would need to travel a bit to launch anyway I think. Thanks!
[22:08] <fsphil> nothing on notaminfo for me either
[22:09] <RocketBoy> or AIS
[22:09] <daveake> Did he mention how he's doing the tracking?
[22:09] <fsphil> not too bothered, predictions still put it firmly in the irish sea
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[22:12] <RocketBoy> LL - well normally 2 x AA - but good igniters will fire off a single AAA
[22:13] <craag> Also when using a foil balloon, do I need a parachute of some kind? I'm guessing the split foil will retard the descent a bit.
[22:13] <RocketBoy> yeah inormally it will be
[22:13] <daveake> Mine have come down at about the same speed as they went up
[22:14] <craag> Ok, cool. That makes the weight a bit easier! Cheers.
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, yea
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> are AAA good for a wire cutdown?
[22:18] <RocketBoy> what a nicrome wire cutdown
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[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:21] <RocketBoy> well I guess you could make one - but it would depend on the wire resistance
[22:24] <RocketBoy> personally I have never used a ni-chrome cutdown - used ni-chrome for hot wire cutting polystyrene though
[22:24] <daveake> and the cell's internal resistance. I don't know how low that is. Would need to be pretty low as (depending on wire length) you're looking at up to 4A to make it work
[22:25] <RocketBoy> the igniter thing seems to be the most reliable IMO - I have had those fireing off a 100uF capacitor even at low temps
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> what's the circuit for that?
[22:26] <daveake> wiki
[22:26] <RocketBoy> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support?s[]=igniter
[22:26] <DrLuke> dual monitors makes creating parts for eagle really easy :)
[22:27] <RocketBoy> yeah I wondered about that
[22:28] <RocketBoy> got letterbox sindrome whenever I played with eagle
[22:28] Action: daveake pats 4 monitors
[22:28] <DrLuke> ouch
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[22:28] <DrLuke> Once I get a new pc and overall workstation, I will definitely get 3 monitors on moveable mounting arm thingies
[22:29] <DrLuke> so I can move them all over the workstation
[22:29] <daveake> Mine are all sat on the desk
[22:29] <DrLuke> same
[22:29] <DrLuke> but the monitor stand takes up too much space which could be used for something else
[22:29] <RocketBoy> whats a good monitor to get these days - say ciraca £350
[22:30] <daveake> You can get big arms that hold 3 or 4 or ..... 8 monitors together
[22:30] <RocketBoy> lets not get carried away
[22:30] <daveake> :D
[22:30] <RocketBoy> a single big monitor will do me
[22:30] <RocketBoy> \
[22:30] <daveake> Mine are all Samsun 1600 x 1200 monitors
[22:30] <daveake> Circa £200
[22:31] <DrLuke> well
[22:31] <RocketBoy> what size
[22:31] <DrLuke> 2 are minimum
[22:31] <daveake> Pretty much all monitors now are wider widescreem, so 1900 x 1080
[22:31] <daveake> 24"
[22:32] <RocketBoy> I used to run dual screen with the laptop screen at work - that was very effective
[22:32] <daveake> It's great for lots of things
[22:32] <RocketBoy> hey ho - time for sleep
[22:33] <RocketBoy> nights
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[22:54] Action: Laurenceb_ has iyama prolite monitors
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> oh gone
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> cheap, non widescreen and decent colour
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:33] <bkhs> saltwater recovery anyone?
[23:35] <natrium42> payload box would have to be water tight
[23:36] <natrium42> if you want the electronics to keep working
[23:40] <bkhs> agreed - but has it been done? is it possible?
[23:42] <natrium42> yeah, some guys in the netherlands had a ship recover their payload
[23:45] <bkhs> wow so its pretty unlikely getting it back right
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Not impossible, but you're much more likely than not to lose it.
[23:47] <Randomskk> sometimes they wash up
[23:47] <Randomskk> http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=badger1
[23:48] <natrium42> Randomskk: was it tim zaman with the ship recovery or am i misremembering?
[23:48] <Randomskk> I think it was him
[23:48] <natrium42> somebody had a research ship pick up their payload
[23:48] <natrium42> but i can't find it anymore
[23:49] <natrium42> couldn't find it on his site http://www.timzaman.nl/
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 29 2012