highaltitude.log.20120827

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[03:16] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Thermal Adhesive Kit"
[03:23] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] Re: uBLOX 6 GPS Modules Proposal"
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[06:36] <KT5TK> Heurekla! I finally cracked the pecan nut!
[06:36] <KT5TK> ADF7012 now locks fine on the 2 m band
[06:37] <KT5TK> First packets sent and decoded (KT5TK-11 on aprs.fi)
[06:38] <KT5TK> Still much to improve of course...
[06:38] <KT5TK> My gotchas were
[06:39] <KT5TK> 1) The Output Divider is NOT a part of the f_out formula. It's only used internally
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[06:39] <KT5TK> Do NOT disable the CE pin (TX_enable) between writing each of the 4 registers. CE low means a COMPLETE reset
[06:41] <oh7lzb> Cool.
[06:42] <KT5TK> I'll copy a few of the files to my website so that others may be able to avoid some of the difficulties with the ADF7012
[06:43] <oh7lzb> If you wish to send telemetry in a more compact format, embedded in the position packets, try this: http://he.fi/doc/aprs-base91-comment-telemetry.txt
[06:43] <oh7lzb> aprs.fi and APRSIS32 decode it, a good bunch of byonics TT4 trackers is transmitting it
[06:44] <oh7lzb> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=OH7LZB-14 - that's how it looks in the end of position packets (that's my aprx igate on a D-Link wifi box running openwrt)
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[06:44] <oh7lzb> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/OH7LZB-14
[06:47] <KT5TK> oh7lzb: Cool! I was still looking for some better telemetry format. Will have a look at it!
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[06:48] <oh7lzb> Making the packets shorter will make them more likely to decode right.
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[06:50] <KT5TK> Sure. I just want to make sure that the receivers can really decode it. However if you're in the boat, it's pretty certain that it'll be accepted sooner or later.
[06:51] <oh7lzb> It's not widely understood yet, only two clients decode it as far as I know.
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[06:53] <jcoxon> morning oh7lzb KT5TK
[06:54] <oh7lzb> Good morning.
[06:59] <oh7lzb> Sent the document to Bob, maybe he'll put it on aprs.org.
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[07:06] <Upu> morning
[07:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: uBLOX 6 GPS Modules Proposal"
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[07:23] <KT5TK> OK, as mentioned earlier, Pecan finally works.
[07:23] <KT5TK> I've just uploaded some useful documents to my website:
[07:23] <KT5TK> http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/downloads/PecanNut/
[07:23] <KT5TK> Use at your own risk!
[07:24] <KT5TK> Esp. the adf7012tester may be useful for someone who looks into geting this rf chip to work
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[08:31] <costyn> KT5TK: may be useful to put in the UKHAS wiki?
[08:31] <costyn> (the link at least)
[08:34] <fsphil> morning all
[08:34] <Upu> morning
[08:36] <number10> morni
[08:36] <number10> kb fail
[08:40] <costyn> hello
[08:42] <DrLuke> morning
[08:43] <DrLuke> what a beautiful day to fly
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[10:28] <cuddykid> ping eroomde
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[11:46] <MrScienceMan> TINY and Phoenix1 were recovored successfully on Sunday
[11:46] <MrScienceMan> Here is a picture from 32226m
[11:46] <MrScienceMan> https://picasaweb.google.com/109494460281734898309/ProjectTINY?authkey=Gv1sRgCOTayoOl2obP5gE#5781316837061348018
[11:47] <fsphil> nice one, congratulations :)
[11:47] <fsphil> love the big clouds
[11:48] <fsphil> is there condensation on the lens?
[11:49] <MrScienceMan> not on the lense but on a thin plastic film i put infront as shield
[11:49] <MrScienceMan> somebody put their hand on it, seconds before liftoff
[11:49] <MrScienceMan> and it froze around 15-20km
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[11:50] <MrScienceMan> so, next time last thing on the check list will be to wipe it clean before liftoff
[11:54] <MrScienceMan> also, CPL filter and higher resolution
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[11:54] <jgrahamc> MrScienceMan: do you need the altitude data for Phoenix 1 corrected?
[11:56] <costyn> MrScienceMan: very nice!
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[11:59] <MrScienceMan> jgrahamc: not sure if they plan to make something with it
[12:00] <jgrahamc> OK. MrScienceMan if it's useful I can whip up a little program that takes the erroneous output and 'fixes' it.
[12:00] <MrScienceMan> i can fix those
[12:01] <MrScienceMan> seems like simply taking the differnce between the samples at the drop
[12:01] <MrScienceMan> and adding it to the next ones until its back to normal
[12:01] <MrScienceMan> will yeild a good result
[12:02] <MrScienceMan> or just linear interpolation
[12:03] <jgrahamc> Sure.
[12:04] <Upu> congrats MrScienceMan :)
[12:04] <MrScienceMan> thanks
[12:04] <MrScienceMan> GPS worked flawlessly
[12:04] <Upu> don't put anything in front of the camera next time is my advice
[12:04] <Upu> good to gear :)
[12:04] <Upu> hear
[12:05] <Upu> do you have alot of pictures ?
[12:05] <MrScienceMan> thats from a clip
[12:05] <MrScienceMan> spanning from release to landing
[12:05] <Upu> oh it was a movie ok
[12:05] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: GPS might have worked fine, but your transmitted altitude was a bit screwed
[12:05] <MrScienceMan> Darkside: i flied TINY
[12:05] <Darkside> ahh
[12:05] <Darkside> not the other one :P
[12:06] <MrScienceMan> ;)
[12:06] <Darkside> phoenix had some really bad bugs
[12:06] <MrScienceMan> its tinytrak
[12:06] <Darkside> your one? or phoenix
[12:06] <MrScienceMan> phoenix
[12:06] <Darkside> eek
[12:06] <Darkside> then eitehr they need to update the firmware, or ditch tinytrak
[12:06] <Darkside> because it has some seriously bad altitude reporting bugs
[12:06] <MrScienceMan> :)
[12:07] <MrScienceMan> Upu> don't put anything in front of the camera
[12:07] <Darkside> did you see john's email about it?
[12:07] <MrScienceMan> pretty much the advice for any photographer
[12:07] <MrScienceMan> dont put a shit filter infront of a 600 pound lens
[12:07] <Darkside> hahha
[12:07] <Darkside> yes
[12:07] <Darkside> so true
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[12:08] <MrScienceMan> cant believe i didnt thought of it earlier
[12:08] <MrScienceMan> to get a CPL infront of the camera
[12:08] <Darkside> the problem is the trapped air
[12:08] <Darkside> which condenses
[12:08] <MrScienceMan> i own at least 3
[12:08] <MrScienceMan> for my DSLR
[12:08] <MrScienceMan> hmm
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> what if i put some rubber on the edges
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> so the camera's end
[12:09] <costyn> MrScienceMan: you flew a DSLR?
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> is outside
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> costyn: no, contour HD
[12:09] <costyn> oh ok
[12:09] <costyn> why did you put this plastic in front of it?
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> but didnt think of putting a CPL on
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> to cut through the haze
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> and get much better footage
[12:09] <costyn> what is CPL?
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> costyn: protection
[12:09] <MrScienceMan> circular polarizatnio filter
[12:10] <costyn> ah
[12:10] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: don't you still need to rotate the CPL to gt the best effect?
[12:10] <costyn> Darkside: yes
[12:10] <MrScienceMan> well, the payload usually spins
[12:10] <MrScienceMan> so I will get some good stils
[12:10] <MrScienceMan> stills*
[12:10] <fsphil> spins horizontally
[12:10] <fsphil> won't help a polarisation filter :)
[12:10] <costyn> fsphil: well the reflected light will interact differently with the polarization filter
[12:10] <MrScienceMan> depending on the angle
[12:11] <costyn> fsphil: so if you at least set it correctly for the horizon
[12:11] <fsphil> it would be interesting to fly two cameras with the same field of view, and opposite polarity filters
[12:11] <costyn> yes it would :)
[12:14] <Upu> I would strongly recommend you don't fly with any filters on
[12:14] <MrScienceMan> or one, and half a filter
[12:15] <Upu> tc
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[12:37] <daveake> You culd make a little filter rotator :)
[12:37] <daveake> could
[12:38] <daveake> Whatever you do, you need to do something to stop the condensation
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[13:13] <nick_> Can anyone suggest somewhere I can look for regulators for less common voltages?
[13:15] <daveake> Get a variable one
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[13:23] <costyn> daveake: did you get my email?
[13:23] <nick_> Ah, it turns out that the answer is to get google to search RS
[13:23] Action: nick_ needs a ~32V regulator
[13:23] <jonsowman> at what current?
[13:23] <costyn> nick_: many websites have a crappy internal search :)
[13:23] <nick_> ~0
[13:24] <jonsowman> yeah that should be doable
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[13:24] <nick_> Yeah, I found some, just not using their search criteria boxes
[13:24] <mattbrejza> max1771 will do it
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[13:25] <mattbrejza> the upper voltage of these things depends on external components not the IC
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[13:31] <nick_> I don't like that the specs I find all seem to be x-32V
[13:31] <nick_> But maybe that's just because I'm searching for 32V?
[13:31] <nick_> Is it an issue that I want the top end of the range?
[13:34] <Darkside> what is ths 32v?
[13:34] <Darkside> the output voltage?
[13:34] <nick_> yeah
[13:40] <mattbrejza> input voltage?
[13:40] <daveake> There are loads. e.g. LM2941 is 5V - 20V o/p
[13:47] <nick_> My input voltage will be 32-36V
[13:47] <nick_> Output 32V
[13:47] <nick_> (using 3 12 V batteries)
[13:47] <daveake> Oh, OK. Probably not many to choose from.
[13:48] <daveake> How regulated does this need to be?
[13:48] <daveake> And how many ampy things?
[13:48] <nick_> ~0A
[13:49] <jonsowman> what does that really mean?
[13:49] <nick_> microamps
[13:49] <costyn> daveake: http://imgur.com/a/PrsuH#17 <-- patched balloon... you wanted to see a pic right?
[13:49] <jonsowman> okay
[13:49] <daveake> custyn yes, wow.
[13:49] <daveake> Never seen any with repairs before
[13:49] <daveake> nick_ resistor + zener then
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[13:52] <costyn> daveake: seems to have held just fine
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[13:52] <daveake> yes, it did
[13:52] <costyn> daveake: maybe the placement that close to the neck meant it would get less stretched
[13:52] <daveake> Well, it was probably the strongest part after the neck anyway!
[13:52] <costyn> hehe true
[14:03] <mattbrejza> nick_: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2031+204243+110163133+110131072&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=zener&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=2031+204243&mm=1001725||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D2031%2B204243%26Ntk%3Dgense
[14:03] <mattbrejza> hmm thats a long one
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[14:06] <nick_> mattbrejza: that url didn't work exactly
[14:06] <nick_> But the point is to get a ~32V diode?
[14:06] <mattbrejza> zener
[14:07] <nick_> But the point is to get a ~32V zener diode?
[14:07] <HixHome> afternoon peeps. Just set up my wordpress site http://widerimage.co.uk and twitter @nearspaceimages
[14:07] <mattbrejza> yea
[14:07] <mattbrejza> there are a lot more 33V ones mind you
[14:07] <nick_> And the zener diode stays at the breakdown voltage?
[14:07] <mattbrejza> you also need a large value resistor
[14:08] <nick_> (33V would be OK too, it just needs to be 30V < x < 36V)
[14:08] <mattbrejza> reverse breakdown but yea
[14:08] <nick_> Why is this better than an adjustable regulator?
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[14:09] <mattbrejza> because you cant find an adjustable regulator :P
[14:09] <mattbrejza> its not as good, but it works fine for very low load
[14:10] <mattbrejza> the regulation varies with load
[14:10] <mattbrejza> but wont matte rfor you
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[14:30] <kristianpaul> Hey
[14:31] <kristianpaul> WHo was using rtklib on a arm board latelly?
[14:39] <HixHome> I've added a loada links to the site now, if anyone else has any suggestions let me know. Also feel free to link to me
[14:39] <HixHome> http://widerimage.co.uk
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[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:45] <HixHome> Hi Lunar_Lander
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[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> seems to have been a good flight in Bulgaria
[14:55] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, apart from some dodgy altitude conversion code. ;)
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[15:37] <nigelvh_> Morning all
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[15:38] <Darkside> \o
[15:39] <nick_> hi nigelvh_
[15:39] <nick_> Did you work on BESS polar?
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[15:40] <nigelvh_> Did I work on BESS polar?
[15:41] <nigelvh_> I don't think I did...
[15:41] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[15:41] <nick_> The cosmic ray balloon experiment over antarctica
[15:42] <nigelvh> Let me look...
[15:42] <nick_> You mentioned something about an experiment flying over antarctica for a few months on the mailing list
[15:43] <nigelvh> Yes, I had mentioned that. But it's not BESS polar
[15:43] <nick_> Which was it?
[15:43] <nigelvh> I'm not sure it has a name, and I don't believe it's flown yet.
[15:44] <nick_> Oh
[15:44] <nick_> What does it do?
[15:44] <nigelvh> It's through the University of Washington and NASA. It's supposed to look for high energy x-rays.
[15:45] <nigelvh> I was helping to build and test the circuit boards used on the photomultiplier tubes and the signal processing boards.
[15:45] <nigelvh> Though I had no part in designing them.
[15:45] <nigelvh> I was essentially cheap labor in soldering resistors and flipping switches on the thermal chamber.
[15:45] <nigelvh> Neat stuff though. Learned a lot.
[15:46] <nick_> OK, do you have a link to anything about the experiment?
[15:48] <nigelvh> I don't off hand, and a casual google isn't showing much either.
[15:49] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh Darkside nick_
[15:50] <nigelvh> Howdy
[15:52] <nigelvh> nick_ this sounds about right, though i'm not sure. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/barrel-antarctica.html
[15:53] <nigelvh> Actually, reading more of this, I'm pretty sure this is it.
[15:54] <nigelvh> The 2012-2014 timeframe is appropriate, the two satellites (there had been 3 planned, but the third got cut in the budget, so now they're doing some balloons)
[15:54] <KT5TK> nigelvh: Pecan nut is finally cracked open and locks!
[15:54] <Darkside> KT5TK: ooh
[15:54] <nigelvh> The work with UC Berkeley and UW.
[15:54] <nigelvh> Nice KT5TK!
[15:55] <nigelvh> What was the issue with locking?
[15:55] <nick_> Thanks, I'll take a read
[15:55] <KT5TK> My error was that I reset in between submitting the 4 registers
[15:55] <nick_> My brain cannot parse UW as washington
[15:55] <nigelvh> Well, I live in Washington, so it's all I think of.
[15:55] <nigelvh> Also, I went to school there.
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[15:56] <nigelvh> KT5TK, so you were resetting the 7012 after setting the registers?
[15:56] <KT5TK> I've put some code and spreadsheets on my website that may be useful for further ADF7012 projectshttp://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/downloads/PecanNut/
[15:57] <nick_> I'm quite tempted to try and get a postdoc on an antarctic physics experiment
[15:57] <KT5TK> before probraming the next register I put the CE pin to low each time.
[15:57] <nigelvh> Unfortunately, as cheap labor, I don't get an option to go to antarctica, but I think it would be really awesome to visit.
[15:58] <nigelvh> KT5TK, yeah, that sounds like it might cause issues.
[15:58] <nick_> Sometimes I think I should have just done my DPhil on Ice Cube or something
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> I think the polar regions are psychological challenge too
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> especially the polar night
[16:00] <Darkside> you're not there for most of the time
[16:00] <KT5TK> Was submiting some APRS packets to IS yesterday after adjusting the deviation from WBFM to something narrower until the receiver decoded the packets.
[16:01] <KT5TK> http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/downloads/PecanNut/code/adf7012tester/ may be useful for you, nigelvh
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[16:03] <nigelvh> Neat stuff there!
[16:05] <KT5TK> Feel free to use it and let me know if you have questions
[16:06] <nigelvh> For a second I was a bit confused as to why you were initializing onboard SPI if you were bitbanging it, but I forgot to read the if !defined bit.
[16:09] <nigelvh> Also, it appears you actually are using SPI, as you've got the define disabled.
[16:17] <KT5TK> Yes, th SPI library is a bit faster, but both methods work.
[16:17] <nigelvh> Excellent news.
[16:17] <nigelvh> I got all my parts in the mail, so now I'm just waiting on the boards to show up at some point here.
[16:17] <KT5TK> I just wrote the bitbang because I couldn't get the communication going first.
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[16:19] <nigelvh> Makes sense. Break it all down to you find the issue.
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[16:20] <KT5TK> There is a spreadsheet to scale down the sine values to 25% of those that are originally used in the trackuino code. With that values I got approximately the best FM deviation with the components I used on the Pecan circuit.
[16:21] <nigelvh> Oh, interesting!
[16:21] <nigelvh> I haven't actually done the APRS modulation in software yet. So far my trackers have been using the MX614 modem chips that generate real nice clean sine waves at 1200/2200Hz.
[16:22] <nigelvh> Though that is my goal is to make APRS happen in software, and I'll just feed serial data into the radio.
[16:23] <Darkside> nigelvh: ooh
[16:23] <Darkside> i'd heard about these chips
[16:23] <Darkside> haven't used one yet
[16:24] <Darkside> ahh they only do 1200 tho
[16:24] <nigelvh> They're not easy to come by. Argent Data is the only place I've found them reliably, and they don't always have them in stock. So last time they had them, I ordered 10 of them.
[16:24] <Darkside> still, SOIC..
[16:24] <Darkside> ahh
[16:25] <Darkside> would be nice for making an airborne digipeater
[16:25] <nigelvh> Yes
[16:25] <nigelvh> They do have the decode stuff built in.
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[16:25] <Darkside> one of the project horus guys is looking at doing that
[16:25] <Darkside> i think he had some other chip in mine tho
[16:25] <Darkside> in mind*
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[16:25] <nigelvh> Or at least 1200/2200 to binary high/low
[16:26] <KT5TK> Software modulation works just fine on the atmega. very clean sine. However it might be useful to think about different tables for the different tones and to produce a phase consistent level adjustment.
[16:26] <nigelvh> Yeah
[16:26] <nigelvh> I had that issue.
[16:26] <Darkside> aww doesn't give a clock output
[16:26] <Darkside> i guess you can do that yourself
[16:26] <nigelvh> The MX614 puts out the tones both at 2vp-p
[16:27] <nigelvh> But at the recieve end they're not equal
[16:27] <nigelvh> Some adjustment in the PWM would be good.
[16:27] <Darkside> mm, i know using the trackuino code its not perfect
[16:27] <Darkside> but it works
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[16:28] <Darkside> still, that MX614 looks nice
[16:28] <Darkside> i'd still like to fly a 9600 baud digi at some point tho
[16:29] <nigelvh> The MX614 does make things easy
[16:29] <Darkside> nigelvh: how much did you get them for?
[16:29] <nigelvh> Certainly less taxing than generating tones onboard.
[16:29] <nigelvh> I think they were $9/ea
[16:29] <nigelvh> As I said, they're hard to come by.
[16:29] <Darkside> yeah
[16:30] <Darkside> thats what i'm seeing them for on octopart
[16:30] <Darkside> ouch
[16:30] <KT5TK> Level adjustments may not be so difficult. Just make sure that you adjust the levels only when the sine is close to zero (or actually 127 in the trackuino table). For a complete digi, just look at a tracker 3 from Argentdata.
[16:31] <KT5TK> The pcb is already neat & small
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[16:35] <Darkside> we'd prefer to make our own digi anyway
[16:36] <nigelvh> There is something to say for homebrewing it all.
[16:36] <KT5TK> Tracker3 is open source. Feel free.
[16:37] <Darkside> its on a PIC isn't it?
[16:37] <KT5TK> No it's some Freescale micro
[16:38] <Darkside> ahh
[16:40] <KT5TK> Scott is usually very helpful if someone tries to compile his code. There are not many who do this, though.
[16:40] <KT5TK> You'll need a special programmer.
[16:41] <Darkside> we'd possibly try and port it to something else
[16:41] <Darkside> or again, just do our own
[16:41] <KT5TK> I was more thinking about looking at the hardware
[16:42] <Darkside> ohhh its a m68k
[16:42] <Darkside> interesting
[16:42] <Darkside> well, the tracker2 is
[16:43] <KT5TK> tracker3 is in the same lines
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[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[17:33] <Darkside> it is by will alone i set my mind in motion
[17:33] <Darkside> it is by the juice of saphoo that thoughts acquire speed
[17:33] <Darkside> the lips acquire stains the stains become a warning
[17:33] <Darkside> it is by will alone i set my mind in motion
[17:34] Action: Darkside bored
[17:34] <KT5TK_QRL> Darkside are you all right?
[17:35] <Darkside> i'm fine
[17:35] <Darkside> just quoting Dune
[17:35] <KT5TK_QRL> good. If you're bored, code something exciting. SSTV maybe
[17:35] <Darkside> hah
[17:36] <Darkside> i'm not *that* bored
[17:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Any idea how to generate 9k6 GFSK so that it can be decoded from those Kenwood radios?
[17:38] <Darkside> thats waht i want to know
[17:38] <Darkside> because amonst the projct horus team, we have 3 handhelds and 2 mobiles that support 9600 baud APRS
[17:39] <KT5TK_QRL> I have a Kenwood TH-D72 but don't know where to start. I just know it must be GFSK
[17:39] <Darkside> woo TH-D72 :D
[17:40] <Darkside> same here
[17:40] <Darkside> i love it
[17:40] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, great radio. just expensive
[17:40] <Darkside> yes...
[17:40] <KT5TK_QRL> But many hams have it. Only few ever make use of 9k6
[17:41] <Darkside> yup
[17:41] <Darkside> it seems very wide
[17:41] <KT5TK_QRL> So far I've only heard about some sattelite specialists that decode telemetry with it
[17:41] <Darkside> interesting
[17:42] <Darkside> same standard as what sat downlinks use eh?
[17:42] <KT5TK_QRL> So what the birds transmit should be documented somewhere?
[17:42] <nigelvh> If kenwood uses it on the ham bands it has to be documented somewhere.
[17:42] <Darkside> mm
[17:42] <Darkside> i might have a look with a FCD
[17:42] <Darkside> see how wide it is
[17:43] <Darkside> try some WFM demodulation
[17:43] <KT5TK_QRL> good idea
[17:43] <KT5TK_QRL> no longer bored :)
[17:43] <Darkside> :P
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, thanks again for the battery info
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> I wondered today, are the ultimate lithium AAA also good?
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> I think you would need more of them compared to using AA
[17:45] <Darkside> they have less capacity
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[17:46] <Darkside> KT5TK_QRL: its a bit hard to make this thing TX on demand
[17:46] <Darkside> well, when it doesn't have gps lock anyway
[17:47] <KT5TK_QRL> If you have a gps lease just push the beacon button
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[17:47] <Darkside> yeah thats the problem, i don't :P
[17:47] <KT5TK_QRL> If not, enter some coordinates manually
[17:49] <Darkside> didn't know you could do that :P
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[17:51] <Darkside> jeez it just sounds like white noise wit a FM demodulator
[17:52] <KT5TK_QRL> what's the bandwidth?
[17:52] <KT5TK_QRL> Should be narrower than AFSK actually
[17:52] <KT5TK_QRL> 1200 baud AFSK
[17:53] <Darkside> well
[17:53] <Darkside> i don'tknow if it sGMSK
[17:53] <Darkside> i'm going to get some samples
[17:53] <Darkside> once this thing has lock
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[17:54] <KT5TK_QRL> Just turn on your 100k$ GPS simulator ;)
[17:54] <Darkside> thats at the uni :P
[17:54] <Darkside> or, it was
[17:54] <Darkside> looks like they had to return it :(
[17:55] <Darkside> when you say you think it uses GMSK, you mean GMSK on FM?
[17:55] <Darkside> 'AGMSK', if you will?
[17:55] <KT5TK_QRL> no, sorry, I meant GFSK
[17:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Gaussian mod of FSK
[17:56] <Darkside> but still on FM?
[17:56] <KT5TK_QRL> FSK is actually som kind of FM by itself
[17:56] <Darkside> well yes
[17:57] <Darkside> but APRSuses 1200 baud FSK modulated on top of a FM voice channel
[17:57] <KT5TK_QRL> but definitely not audio modulation
[17:58] <Darkside> well its transmitting audio level tones over a FM channel
[17:58] <Darkside> so you think the 9600 baud system will be audio level GFSK over a FM channel?
[17:58] <Darkside> or just 'raw' GFSK
[17:59] <KT5TK_QRL> No it should directly modulate the carrier frequency. The gaussian mod just makes it smoother
[17:59] <KT5TK_QRL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_frequency-shift_keying
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[17:59] <Darkside> http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/109.html
[18:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, correct. G3RUH uses some scrambler logic. I believe that this is what the satellites use.
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[18:09] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/aprs9600_IQ.wav
[18:09] <Darkside> recording from my FCD
[18:12] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm at work right now, so I can't look at it in depth. But you're on the right track.
[18:12] <Darkside> th demodulated FM audio appears to be clopped
[18:13] <Darkside> clipped*
[18:13] <KT5TK_QRL> Is there maybe some demodulator for gnuradio companion
[18:13] <KT5TK_QRL> ?
[18:13] <Darkside> dunno
[18:14] <KT5TK_QRL> I've seen some GFSK mod/demodulator but I'm not sure if it does the correct GFSK that we need.
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[18:20] <Darkside> ok apparently it is just FSK
[18:20] <Darkside> not AFSK
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[18:20] <Darkside> http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/kd2bd/9k6modem/
[18:20] <KT5TK_QRL> I was sure about that. But how did you find out?
[18:21] <Darkside> there is some kind of filtering
[18:21] <KT5TK_QRL> That's the gaussian part about it.
[18:22] <KT5TK_QRL> It pre-calculates the spectrum so that you'll end up with an almost ideal gaussian distribution.
[18:22] <KT5TK_QRL> That makes this modullation mode so narrow.
[18:23] <Darkside> ok
[18:24] <KT5TK_QRL> It's usually done through a lookup table
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[18:27] <KT5TK_QRL> The LFSR scrambler additionally makes it unlikely to have long runs of 1s (like you may have in human readable text or in some binary files like pictures.
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[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh no http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/news/2012/SirBernard/
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> :'(
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[18:46] <DrLuke> today was a good day: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrvhzz609z6jwgd/2012-08-27%2014.54.22.jpg
[18:47] <Darkside> ooh nice, a DG-1000
[18:47] <Darkside> i did some training in those..
[18:47] <Darkside> never finished my solo training tho
[18:47] <DrLuke> aww
[18:47] <Darkside> never had enough time
[18:47] <Darkside> it was high altitude ballooning or gliding
[18:47] <Darkside> i chose HABing
[18:48] <DrLuke> well
[18:48] <BrainDamage> get a stack of 20x4kg balloons, and you won't regret the gliding
[18:48] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[18:48] <DrLuke> you're missing out on all the rad fun of flying above nuclear power plants: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktto8t12eonxbxy/2012-08-27%2016.10.59.jpg
[18:48] <Darkside> we don't have those where i'm from :P
[18:49] <Darkside> and i've heard about this
[18:49] <Darkside> DrLuke: what country?
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[18:49] <DrLuke> germany
[18:49] <Darkside> heh
[18:49] <Darkside> i've heard how you can hop from power plant to power plant
[18:49] <Darkside> and thermal up and up above the cooling towers
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> interesing cooling tower
[18:49] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: perspective
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> nope
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> its veyr conical
[18:50] <Darkside> ah
[18:50] <DrLuke> it's very tiny
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> i dont like that trench
[18:50] <Darkside> ahh
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> its looks veyr radioactive
[18:50] <Darkside> DrLuke: very cool :-)
[18:51] <Darkside> DrLuke: i've got a friend who's been to a few junior world comps
[18:51] <Darkside> Matthew Scutter
[18:51] <DrLuke> nice
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> slightly crazy that you could do that
[18:51] <DrLuke> I've never gotten that far into it
[18:51] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: thats not the half of it
[18:51] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riuFJ_xQw24
[18:52] <Darkside> ridge soaring
[18:52] <DrLuke> ridge soaring is awesome
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> i meant fly over a nuke plant
[18:52] <Darkside> that video is from a wave camp i went on a while back
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> without getting a missile
[18:52] <Darkside> lol
[18:52] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: gliders don't show up on radar well
[18:52] <Darkside> and don't have ADS-B transponders
[18:52] <Darkside> well, normally anyway
[18:53] <DrLuke> laurence: there's a restrictive airspace
[18:53] <DrLuke> but we were above it
[18:53] <DrLuke> only goes 800 meters over the ground
[18:53] <Darkside> hahaha
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> oh
[18:53] <BrainDamage> how much a liftoff costs you?
[18:53] <DrLuke> 13¬
[18:53] <Darkside> towplane or winch?
[18:53] <DrLuke> for 4:40 of flying, and 280 km
[18:53] <DrLuke> towplane
[18:53] <BrainDamage> also, gliders got ridicolous payload capability
[18:53] <Darkside> cool
[18:53] <DrLuke> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=2721949
[18:53] <DrLuke> there's the entire flight
[18:54] <BrainDamage> so not much an issue that you can go and bomb the plant
[18:54] <Darkside> lol
[18:54] <Darkside> but yeah, i find ridge soaring more interesting :P
[18:54] <DrLuke> nuclear power plants have like 3 meters worth of beton and steel around them
[18:54] <Darkside> getting the wingtip within metres of a cliff face
[18:54] <DrLuke> probably not even a jumbo could penetrate it
[18:55] <BrainDamage> they atually do jet airplane crash tests
[18:55] <DrLuke> yeah
[18:55] <BrainDamage> I saw some videos and it's awesome to see
[18:56] <DrLuke> made a self portrait: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qanv3t63iktoh4/2012-08-27%2013.40.57.jpg
[18:56] <Darkside> hehe
[18:57] <DrLuke> I should replace my gasmask photo on facebook with that :P
[18:58] <eroomde> every time mike bassant sends an email I find about 3 things wrong with it (allowed) that I stated in a way which rubs me properly up the wrong way.
[18:59] <eroomde> are stated*
[18:59] <eroomde> which is less allowed
[18:59] <eroomde> or at least, I think I should be allowed to reply
[18:59] <eroomde> and yet, to what end
[18:59] <eroomde> these are my worries
[18:59] <Darkside> DrLuke: http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=2195600
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[19:00] <DrLuke> nice
[19:00] <Dan-K2VOL> ha eroomde
[19:00] <Darkside> that was following the line of a front
[19:01] <Darkside> he's also done some absurd XC's
[19:01] <Darkside> i can't find the one i'm thinking of
[19:01] <Darkside> where he goes about 800km north
[19:01] <eroomde> hello Darkside
[19:01] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: even
[19:01] <Darkside> aww
[19:01] <eroomde> although, hello too Darkside
[19:01] <Darkside> :P
[19:01] <eroomde> you're not left out
[19:01] <eroomde> 2 logical fallacies in mike's reply to john
[19:01] <eroomde> in 1 sentence
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> how's the rocket work going ed?
[19:02] <eroomde> i had 3 days away in the countryside
[19:03] <eroomde> not checked a single email till an hour ago
[19:03] <eroomde> had my phone off
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> very nice
[19:03] <Darkside> and now he's pissed off
[19:03] <eroomde> walked a bit, shot a bit, ate a bit, board games a bit
[19:03] <eroomde> was good
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds good!
[19:04] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: so not much rocket in the last few days
[19:04] <eroomde> but I did have a nice time working on a little machine learning things last week to help with a combined gps and inertial unit
[19:05] <eroomde> which i hope to progress this week, although i have a bit of other work to do
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> really, ,that does sound interesting
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[19:06] <eroomde> it is, it's fascinating (to me) and quite exciting to be able to get really really good state estimation, both positions, velocities and attitudes, with very cheap hardware
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, now you're talking
[19:07] <Darkside> kalman filter stuff?
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm interested in improving balloon payload AHRS at very calm float states
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I've discovered that the motions at float are pretty much in the mems gyro noise
[19:08] <eroomde> yes, that doesn;t surprise me
[19:08] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: dual-freq gps?
[19:08] <Darkside> i guess that doesn't fall within the 'cheap' category
[19:08] <Darkside> i was at a talk in adelaide where this exact problem came up
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> well, it's the pitch/roll information that's hard to get
[19:08] <Darkside> about how L1 GPS wasn't good enough to measure altitude
[19:08] <eroomde> i think a magnetometer and a 2 axis accelerometer, in conjection with the lowest rate mems gyros you can find, could do something good
[19:08] <Darkside> ahh
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> really?
[19:09] <eroomde> you could certainly remove the bias from the gps
[19:09] <Darkside> anyway, the response from the 'industry' people in the audience was "use a L2 gps, they only cost a few cents"
[19:09] <Darkside> i almost cracked up laughing
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, why exactly?
[19:09] <Darkside> "a few cents? are you fracking kidding me"
[19:09] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: give me a few minutes to put a graph online from something i did
[19:09] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[19:09] <Darkside> these sre industry people working on products which might have millions of units of production
[19:10] <Darkside> maybe a few cents in ultra bulk
[19:10] <Darkside> but in small quantities? give me a break
[19:10] <Darkside> a dual-freq GPS is going to set you back thousands of dollars
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:10] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: http://i.imgur.com/aFmyc.png
[19:11] <eroomde> so, this is just a demo i did for a single axis
[19:11] <eroomde> a mems gyro and a mems accelerometer
[19:11] <Darkside> oh wow
[19:11] <Darkside> kalman filtering is awesome
[19:11] <BrainDamage> RMS of the deviation?
[19:11] <eroomde> wrigged up to a servo doing sinusoidal motion on a little arm
[19:11] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[19:11] <Dan-K2VOL> it is
[19:11] <Upu> ho Yoda
[19:11] <eroomde> so the green line is the integrated gyro output
[19:11] <Upu> hi Yoda even..
[19:12] <eroomde> just naive integration
[19:12] <eroomde> you can see the gyro bias causing it to drift off
[19:12] <Darkside> kalman filters are scary magic to me..
[19:12] <eroomde> blue is what i commanded of the servo
[19:12] <eroomde> and red if the kalman filter using the accelerometer output to estimate and thus subtract the gyro bias
[19:12] <eroomde> before integration
[19:12] <eroomde> Darkside: I could explain them to you in less than 5 minutes
[19:12] <eroomde> with a whiteboard and 3 or 4 coloured pens
[19:13] <Darkside> eroomde: heh
[19:13] <eroomde> they are always explained so badly
[19:13] <eroomde> you get things like this:
[19:13] <Darkside> i think i understand the concept
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> YouTube!
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> be famous.
[19:13] <Darkside> its to do with having some information about the system already, right?
[19:13] <eroomde> but in actual fact they're beautifully simple
[19:13] <eroomde> Darkside: yes, you havew to have a model of the dynamics
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, I have poked at the parameters of an IMU with built in kallman filters, but I don't really understand how to make them sing
[19:13] <eroomde> but that's often really really simple
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> it's not just for exploding cats!
[19:13] <Darkside> in this case it would be for sure
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh interesting
[19:14] <Darkside> if you know its some kind of sinusoudial motion in advance
[19:14] <eroomde> x_new = x_old + time_step*x_rate
[19:14] <Darkside> or even if you know how the mechanics of the system work
[19:14] <eroomde> that kind of thing
[19:14] <Darkside> heh
[19:14] <eroomde> Darkside: it doesn't know its a sinusoid
[19:14] <eroomde> it has no idea
[19:14] <Darkside> ok
[19:14] <eroomde> nothing that complicated
[19:15] <eroomde> it just needs to know how to translate measurements into state
[19:15] <Darkside> usually after i hear the "know something about the system" part, it all devolves into horrendusly complicated mathematics
[19:15] <eroomde> so for example angle = previous_angle + dt*gyro_output
[19:15] <eroomde> Darkside: yeah indeed. again, we could derive all that
[19:15] <eroomde> once you get the intuition, the maths just falls out
[19:16] <Darkside> ok
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[19:16] <eroomde> (with perhaps 1 or 2 linear algebra tricks)
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to get optical flow (star/sun tracking) integrated into the solution for very low rate motion
[19:17] <eroomde> I can't help much with the actual design of the sensor, but could certainly help with the sensor fusion algorithm
[19:17] <Darkside> what about horizon tracking?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:18] <eroomde> Darkside: what about it?
[19:18] <Darkside> i mean, for dans problem
[19:19] <Darkside> won't that give you some info about pitch?
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> sure Darkside
[19:19] <eroomde> if you *know* the position of the sun, you can get that from a sun sensor too
[19:19] <eroomde> well, i guess you need 2 sun sensors to get out all 3 axes
[19:20] <Darkside> stereo webcams :P
[19:20] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: one of the really nice thing about the kalman filter is that just by measuring the position of the sun in the sensor, you can also get for free measurements of your angular rates
[19:20] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh very nice
[19:20] <eroomde> it's not really a kalman filter property, it is because a kalman filter is just one kind of solution to the general class of problems that can be described as Hidden Markov Models
[19:21] <eroomde> and because it's predictive, it means you can predict your state at the next time step, which means if you're using this in a control system, you get rid of phase lag that calssical controller introduce
[19:21] <eroomde> classical*
[19:22] <eroomde> but yes, so instead of just estimates your rate as (sun_t2 - sun_t1)/dt
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[19:22] <eroomde> which is *very* noisy usually
[19:22] <eroomde> you can instead get a filtered velocity estimate out
[19:22] <eroomde> which should be, assuming your assumptions, optimal
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh yes THAT sounds fantastic
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> (the predicting next step for control)
[19:23] <eroomde> well, I would commend the KF (or its nonlinear modifications if necessary) to your attention for this problem
[19:24] <eroomde> i am happy to help out if I can in a less hand-wavy way
[19:24] <eroomde> but not so easy on irc
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to see how cheap and lightweight a payload pointing system can be built to 0.1° stability
[19:24] <eroomde> i think sun sensors would be a great appraoch to that
[19:24] <eroomde> i think 0.1 degrees would be very achievable
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[19:24] <SpeedEvil> easy, even
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, though I was hoping to do it for night time astronomy too :-/
[19:25] <eroomde> with a pair of ccds and some image processing
[19:25] <eroomde> ah
[19:25] <eroomde> well, a star camera then
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[19:25] <SpeedEvil> night time is not much harder
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm worried about the lenses needed to see the stars with webcam though
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> (weight-wise)
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> but you do need low noise imagers and fast lenses
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> you do not get any benefit from large lenses
[19:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> good evening all
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> you want fast lenses
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> fast wide angle works just fine
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> speedevil, won't the larger the lens mean the more light that will hit the imager, and thus decrease your exposure time?
[19:27] <eroomde> agree with speed evil
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> I have a cheap Sony ex view had board that will pick up stars at video rate
[19:27] <eroomde> i think crappy lenses are actually a good thing fro stars too probably
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> OK, not many stars.
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> but enough
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting!
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> defocus can let you get stupid accuracy
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> give you nice big blobs?
[19:28] <eroomde> if the lens has a point spread function (a mathematical approximation of how crap it is, ie how it smears and spreads the light going through it) then that will make estimate the centroid of each star (the estimate being probably highly sub-pixel) easier
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> fascinating!
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> look at what Kepler does
[19:29] <eroomde> so yeah, as speedevil says, blurring will make it even better
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> it intentionally defocusses
[19:29] <eroomde> if it was super fine then each star would be focussed on a single pixel only, and then you can;t estimate where inside that pixel it is
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, so how close to consumer-off-the-shelf-webcam do you guys think this is?
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> plus, if it falls between two, it may be lots down.
[19:30] <eroomde> i think it's probably so close as to be on top of it
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[19:30] <eroomde> see if you can get a sensor that will let you read raw pixel values
[19:30] <eroomde> no jpegification
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> security cameras may be a better bet
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> well that's extremely encouraging, I have some good video software now. That's good info
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> it filters are bad
[19:31] <Dan-K2VOL> IR
[19:31] <eroomde> yeah, something which puts the less in between a c pointer and the photos, the better
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[19:31] <eroomde> so no compression, no filters, etc
[19:31] <eroomde> photons*
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> and OpenCV has been compiled for raspberry Pi already :-)
[19:32] <eroomde> cool :)
[19:32] <eroomde> I think academic computer vision peeps know of all the good webcams
[19:33] <eroomde> with decent centres, known lens distortion etc
[19:33] <Darkside> what kind of sensor resolution do you need for star tracking?
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I bet they do
[19:33] <eroomde> Darkside: i think that's probably entirely a function of field of view and accuracy requirements
[19:33] <Darkside> ok
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> well, on the electronics side, lower res is easier to compute with lower power computing
[19:33] <eroomde> but i would guess VGA would probably be fine for lots of stuff
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> (I'm assuming)
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/650TVL-CCTV-Board-Security-Camera-SONY-Effio-E-DSP-1-3-SONY-Exview-HAD-0-01Lux-/220915402710?pt=US_Security_Cameras&hash=item336f9587d6&_uhb=1#ht_4984wt_1020
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> like that
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> but b+w
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[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.geovision-bg.com/kameri/exview.html
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks speedevil, that is great info
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> there are probably suitable webcam sensors now.
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> I have not looked recently enough to comment
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> one of the problems with webcam shopping is that nobody mentions the low-light sensitivity, or lens aperture :-/
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> but the above class of device will pick stars at video rates for magnitude 4ish
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> impressive
[19:41] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: My #HAB Tracker is ready! Time to go to the next stage....#UKHAS http://t.co/CIkl62kY [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/240172107844157440]
[19:41] <eroomde> for my part the actual sensor stuff is not really something i know anything about
[19:41] <eroomde> i just do noisy vectors in, nice vectors out
[19:41] Action: Laurenceb_ has EKF running on an STM32F1
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> that is the much more rare skill :-)
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> with ublox6
[19:42] <eroomde> EKFs stink
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> lsm303dlh, bmp085 and an itg3200
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> BTW, this is the computer vision software I've got, it's pretty easy to setup and use: http://www.roborealm.com/
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[19:42] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: it is rather annoying
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> hey MrScienceMan
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: what would you use?
[19:42] <MrScienceMan> Lunar_Lander: hey
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> in principle, webcamish sensors that can read out regions of interest might be awesome, to avoid processing the whole frame at video rates
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=exview%20had%20black%20white&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sony.net%2FProducts%2FSC-HP%2Fcx_news%2Fvol14%2Fpdf%2Ftw_exccd.pdf&ei=YMw7UMHnA_C10QWbuICoBg&usg=AFQjCNE804RnlSKlV9ukFlqINSROHjdQRQ
[19:43] <eroomde> That is literally why simon julier invented the unscented kalman filter
[19:43] <eroomde> a kalman filter that doesn't stink
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> i though it was more in terms of "following scent" ?
[19:44] <eroomde> not a joke either, if you ask him at a seminar (he likes talking) he will spend ages telling you why previous methods suck
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> *a scent
[19:44] <eroomde> no, i thought so too
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> i see
[19:44] <eroomde> but literally, all the other types stink
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> but there are no opensource unscented libraries as far as i can see :(
[19:45] <eroomde> oh just program one
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> "just"
[19:45] <eroomde> not that hard
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> hard to make it fast
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> the openpilot code is about 1k lines
[19:46] <Darkside> i've heard things about that code..
[19:46] <eroomde> well it does use sampling so it is slower
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> having said that F4 has a fpu
[19:46] <Darkside> scary optimisations
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:46] <eroomde> it's actually a bit like a particle filter and a kalman filter had a drunken night together
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> im running that code on my F1
[19:47] <eroomde> i have been using particle filters a lot recently. they are extremely, very pleasingly powerful
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> manages 100hz with all the other guidance and nav code running on the same core
[19:49] <eroomde> i have never tried to embed a particle filter :)
[19:49] <eroomde> I guess a UKF would be a reasonable compromise though
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[19:49] <Laurenceb_> someone claimed to get 300hz with unscented on F4 using completely unoptimied code
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> and floats everywhere
[19:49] <eroomde> and yeah, the 150+ MFLOPs on a cortex M4 would make a big difference
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> i can get 150hz with just the ekf running on F1
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> but sampling all the sensors asynchronously at 400 to 1Khz then dsp downconverting adds a surprising amount of overhead
[19:51] <eroomde> yes for sure
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> but that gave me minimal lag
[19:51] <eroomde> lots of interrupts i imagine
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:51] <eroomde> is there much point in sampling > KF rate?
[19:51] <BrainDamage> can't you use the dma for the adc?
[19:52] <eroomde> well let me be less ambiguous
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> if you look at some of the sensor impulse responses there are
[19:52] <eroomde> assuming nyquist and anti-aliasing, is there much point?
[19:52] <BrainDamage> I recall chibios had explicit code for it
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: I2C sensors
[19:52] <BrainDamage> ah
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: even if the sensors filters are decent, most dont have clk input
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> so they will not be aligned
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[19:53] <Laurenceb_> oversampling and dsp solves alignment too
[19:53] <eroomde> yeah fair enough
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[19:54] <Laurenceb_> basically you have a load of overhead as cheap mems sensors have crappy interfaces
[19:54] <eroomde> all our new data logger boards are simultaneous sampling just so we can see they are :)
[19:54] <eroomde> say*
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[20:08] <eroomde> vid not particularly good but bkgrnd music deserves wider attention
[20:08] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUu-GcLSoHc
[20:09] <Darkside> oh wow
[20:09] <Darkside> eroomde: you have seen teh game of thrones theme video, right?
[20:10] <eroomde> one girl playing over herself?
[20:10] <Darkside> no
[20:10] <eroomde> so to speak
[20:10] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEg4SEch27w
[20:11] <eroomde> there are many circumstances under which you should not show this to someone
[20:12] <Darkside> you just can't think of any right now?
[20:13] <eroomde> i can think of a few
[20:13] <Darkside> i thought the lens flare at the end was a nice touch
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[20:15] <Laurenceb_> "Editor of this video should not edit any moreÿ videos."
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[20:30] <Upu> wtf I just watched that cat doing the GoT intro lol
[20:34] <fsphil> winter is purring
[20:34] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/gWFym.jpg
[20:34] <eroomde> scullder and mully
[20:34] <fsphil> eek
[20:34] <fsphil> that's kinda freaky
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[21:20] <eroomde> fsphil: http://about.channel5.com/node/1652
[21:20] <eroomde> i think sept
[21:21] <eroomde> we're the rocket parachute one
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[21:33] <Randomskk> hey daveake
[21:33] <Randomskk> brace for impact
[21:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Kevin Walton "[UKHAS] First HAB Project Tracker"
[21:33] <daveake> oh?
[21:33] <Randomskk> ^
[21:33] <daveake> ah
[21:34] <daveake> Well no Pi mentioned, so that's good
[21:35] <Randomskk> true
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[21:35] <daveake> I shall explain about code availability :)
[21:35] <daveake> He calls it a "design". I call it a sandwich.
[21:40] <daveake> I see he went to Liverpool Uni. Like wot I did. I'm sure he'll be fine then :p
[21:41] <Randomskk> my cousin's off to liverpool in a few weeks
[21:42] <BrainDamage> what's the rate of clueless people do you get?
[21:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] First HAB Project Tracker"
[21:49] <Upu> hey daveake
[21:49] <Upu> yes I avoided that
[21:49] <Upu> I suggested if he gave you £50k he could have the code but felt it better coming from you
[21:50] <daveake> lol
[21:50] <Upu> and wanting to start HAB with your bug wired master piece is optimistic to say the least
[21:50] <Upu> by master piece I mean "wtf is that it actually works lol"
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
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[21:55] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
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[21:56] <Upu> hmm
[21:56] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] First HAB Project Tracker"
[21:58] <Upu> glad we are both singing from the same hymn sheet :)
[21:58] <daveake> lol
[21:59] <daveake> I didn't read yours till after I posted :)
[21:59] <Upu> well we are consistent :)
[21:59] <fsphil> hah
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[21:59] <DrLuke> hehe
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[22:00] <daveake> contraption ---> masterpiece ---> wtf is that?
[22:00] <daveake> Let me down slowly next time :)
[22:00] <Upu> lol
[22:00] <Upu> its like a steam punk tracker
[22:00] <Upu> it is amazing
[22:00] <fsphil> it's not steam punk until it uses valves :p
[22:00] <DrLuke> damn, those MLF44 packages are really really tiny
[22:00] <Upu> don't give him ideas
[22:00] <fsphil> lol
[22:01] <daveake> Don't give OdPhd ideas
[22:01] <Upu> how to fire up the Akerman :
[22:01] <fsphil> you'd need a PhD to do that sort of thing
[22:01] <Upu> "Dave I don't think there is a record for the highest altitude cabbage"
[22:01] <daveake> lettuce dwell on that
[22:01] <DrLuke> here we go
[22:01] <Upu> next week Buzzabbge launch announcement
[22:01] <daveake> It'll be a turnip for the books
[22:01] <DrLuke> we're about to hit an iceberg with those puns...
[22:01] <Upu> I carrot stand all the silly work play on here
[22:02] <daveake> I need a pea
[22:02] <fsphil> peas stop it
[22:02] <Upu> meh off to bed night!
[22:02] <daveake> nn
[22:02] <fsphil> nite!
[22:02] <DrLuke> I've thought about starting some sort of complete parts library for eagle in form of a website collecting it all
[22:02] <DrLuke> night upu
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> MILF44
[22:21] <DrLuke> :)
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[22:44] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neckarwestheim_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Traction_current_converter_plant
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> nutty
[22:46] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[22:47] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> looks like the work is the demolition of block1 cooling
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19164236
[22:52] <daveake> Erm, that was weeks ago
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:53] <daveake> It's OK, in 3 weeks time you can tell us about Neil Armstrong
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 28 2012