highaltitude.log.20120826

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[06:57] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Bulgarian teams will launch tomorrow (26th)"
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[07:39] <MrScienceMan> hey jcoxon thanks for running your scripts
[07:39] <MrScienceMan> we are still filling the first balloon
[07:42] <daveake> Which one's first MrScienceMan ?
[07:43] <daveake> TINY I guess?
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[07:47] <MrScienceMan> daveake: no, phoenix1 will go first
[07:47] <MrScienceMan> we had a slight problem with the valve
[07:47] <daveake> OK
[07:47] <MrScienceMan> think the second balloon will fill much faster
[07:48] <daveake> I'm wondering why the time from Phoenix is 14:23 ... i.e. this afternoon
[07:48] <MrScienceMan> its not connected, i think
[07:48] <daveake> OK
[07:48] <MrScienceMan> mine is running on some spare batteries
[07:48] <MrScienceMan> as you can see it quite hot
[07:48] <daveake> That might explain why it's in a different plce on the map :)
[07:48] <MrScienceMan> 45C inside the box
[07:48] <daveake> That's fairly warm
[07:49] <MrScienceMan> oh you, im roasting
[07:53] <MrScienceMan> going to release the balloon in the next few minutes
[07:53] <jcoxon> MrScienceMan, i've got to go to work - there is a chance my scripts will fail once it starts flying
[07:53] <jcoxon> it shouldn't do
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[07:55] <MrScienceMan> well, aprs.fi is up
[07:55] <MrScienceMan> so it wont be a problem
[07:55] <MrScienceMan> thanks jcoxon
[07:57] <jcoxon> np
[08:00] <jcoxon> clearing the tracker
[08:01] <MrScienceMan> oh :)
[08:02] <jcoxon> if you refresh it'll be better
[08:02] <jcoxon> it means there is no big line from sofia
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[08:19] <daveake> Phoenix1 launched I see
[08:22] <daveake> Altitude seems broken
[08:28] <MrScienceMan> follow on aprs.fi
[08:28] <daveake> I am. Altitude is broken on there too.
[08:31] <daveake> e.g. 15745 feet in ine packet, then 13458 feet in the next. Hopefully the longitide/latitude don't have a similar bug :)
[08:31] <daveake> one*
[08:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Allen Sklar "RE: [UKHAS] Bulgarian teams will launch tomorrow (26th)"
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[09:03] <jgrahamc> Anyone know what's causing the altitude dips seen on the altitude chart for Phoenix1?
[09:03] <daveake> Aside from "a bug in the tracker", no.
[09:03] <Darkside> hrm
[09:04] <jgrahamc> Where's the dump of the raw strings being received? I always forget the URL.
[09:04] <daveake> It's not in the transfer from APRS to spacenear
[09:04] <Darkside> jgrahamc: APRS tracker
[09:04] <Darkside> i think i might go for a wander and get mcdonalds for breakfast
[09:04] <jgrahamc> Ah. Forgot it was APRS.
[09:04] <jgrahamc> So, is there a log of the APRS packets?
[09:05] <daveake> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=LZ1NY-11
[09:05] <jgrahamc> Thx
[09:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomasz Brol "Re: [UKHAS] Bulgarian teams will launch tomorrow (26th)"
[09:06] <Darkside> hmm i wonder what tracker they're using
[09:06] <Darkside> http://sharon.esrac.ele.tue.nl/users/pe1rxq/aprstracker/aprstracker.html
[09:07] <Darkside> going from the APRS tracker id (APERXQ) it looks like they're using one of those
[09:07] <Darkside> or that firmware
[09:07] <jgrahamc> Looking at the raw strings the reported altitude appears to be dropping at times
[09:08] <Darkside> gotta be a software bug
[09:09] <jgrahamc> That's why I was interested, might be good fodder for my talk.
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[09:11] <daveake> I thought you'd be onto it PDQ for your talk :)
[09:15] <fsphil> had to think for a minute what PDQ meant. I'm definitely not PDQ in the morning
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[09:38] <jgrahamc> Most interesting thing is how rhythmic the altitude drops are
[09:39] <fsphil> same amount each time too
[09:39] <fsphil> there seems to be two separate drops happening, one occasional large drop and regular short ones
[09:39] <jgrahamc> Yes, and also notice the two large dips
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[09:40] Nick change: earthshine_ -> earthshine
[09:41] <jgrahamc> I wouldn't surprise me if it's the GPS that's generate a string periodically that their firmware interprets incorrectly.
[09:42] <fsphil> another variant of the padding error
[09:42] <daveake> I'm kinda surprised the long/lat don't seem to have any problems
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[09:48] <jgrahamc> If it is the code for the APRS Tracker linked above then the lat/long is handled in a trivial way, but the altitude has special (really ugly) code.
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[09:51] <Darkside> ffs, my macbook isn't reading SDHC cards gain..
[09:51] <Darkside> again*
[09:52] <Darkside> it does this from time to time
[09:52] <jgrahamc> He's using 1m = 3.3ft
[09:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Allen Sklar "[UKHAS] LZ1NY-9 Bulgaria"
[09:53] <jgrahamc> Ha ha ha
[09:53] <jgrahamc> The author is this program does
[09:53] <jgrahamc> t = (d - '0') * 33
[09:53] <jgrahamc> d is the character read from the GPS: a single ASCII digit of the altitude in metres
[09:53] <jgrahamc> so d - '0' is the conversion to a number from 0 to 9
[09:53] <jgrahamc> t is an unsigned char
[09:54] <fsphil> ooch
[09:54] <jgrahamc> so it will overflow whenever any digit of the altitude is > 6
[09:54] <jgrahamc> Since it's unsigned it wraps round.
[09:54] <jgrahamc> Hence the pattern
[09:54] <Darkside> jgrahamc: so is this the aprs tracker code?
[09:55] <jgrahamc> yes
[09:55] <Darkside> ouch
[09:55] <jgrahamc> From the link above
[09:55] <jgrahamc> The one you pasted
[09:55] <Darkside> ahh
[09:55] <jgrahamc> It is bad code
[09:55] <jgrahamc> Do not use
[09:56] <Darkside> hehe
[09:56] <Darkside> email the list
[09:56] <jgrahamc> I will do
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[10:02] <gonzo_mob> are they uding binary comms wigh yhd
[10:02] <gonzo_mob> the gps<?
[10:03] <Darkside> no
[10:03] <gonzo_mob> otherwise there is little need to process the values in tbe air
[10:04] <Darkside> gonzo_mob: aprs requires altitude inf eet
[10:04] <Darkside> gps reports it in metres
[10:04] <gonzo_mob> i just extract the ascii fields from the nmea and paste to the rtty
[10:04] <Darkside> gonzo_mob: and they're using APRS, not RTTY
[10:08] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "[UKHAS] Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[10:08] <gonzo_mob> ah. understabd
[10:08] <gonzo_mob> (i still hate phone keybds!)
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[10:13] <jgrahamc> TINY does not exhibit the same altitude behavior. Different team?
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[11:31] <DrLuke> oi, seems like tiny popped earlier than expected!
[11:38] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
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[11:58] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[12:03] <Darkside> i am waiting for a train
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[12:09] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "[UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[12:12] <fsphil> I'm looking forward to this talk
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[12:21] <DanielRichman> unit tests woo
[12:21] <DanielRichman> http://ci.habhub.org/job/habitat-develop/ <-- habitat is unit tested
[12:26] <DrLuke> sounds complicated
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[12:42] <Laurenceb__> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11418
[12:55] <x-f> that's handy
[13:02] <DrLuke> that's expensive
[13:02] <DrLuke> might aswell buy a gopro for that money
[13:05] <jgrahamc> The biggest problem I have with SparkFun stuff is that it tends to be $$$ and a bit crap at the same time.
[13:06] <jgrahamc> e.g. SparkFun display with no pull up/down resistors on inputs leading to horrible glitches: http://blog.jgc.org/2012/04/deglitching-sparkfun-7-segment-serial.html
[13:06] <jgrahamc> Also the firmware for that sucked.
[13:21] <DrLuke> that's because most people working at sparkfun aren't engineers
[13:22] <DrLuke> they're just hobby people that for some reason got to work on commercial products.
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[13:29] <Darkside> jgrahamc: whats your talk going to be called?
[13:29] <Darkside> "how to not bugger up your flight computer"
[13:42] <jgrahamc> "My capsule didn't crash but my software did"
[13:46] <Darkside> :P
[13:47] <Darkside> HABugs?
[13:49] <jgrahamc> It's mainly about example bugs and how they could have been avoided. Aim of the talk is to illustrate what you can do to make sure your code works.
[13:49] <jgrahamc> Aim is not to shame people with bad code.
[13:49] <jgrahamc> One of my key ideas in the talk is "You might never be a great programmer... but you can be a great tester"
[13:53] <Darkside> so not going to give examples from real flights?
[13:56] <jgrahamc> I am
[13:56] <jgrahamc> I am going to use them to illustrate problems and how to avoid them
[13:56] <jgrahamc> Is anyone in contact with the folks who did the flight today
[13:56] <jgrahamc> ?
[13:57] <Darkside> just get their email from the list
[14:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Bessant "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[14:01] <Randomskk> ugh
[14:01] <Randomskk> if you haven't heard of unit testing
[14:01] <Randomskk> you should really learn a bit more about testing before commenting on a thread about it
[14:02] <jonsowman> also there's really no need for dedicated hardware to simulate gps sentences
[14:02] <Randomskk> it's clear that john means that unit testing would more than suffice to catch this particular bug
[14:02] <Randomskk> not that one should never test with simulated GPS data
[14:02] <Randomskk> oh jonsowman seeing as you're around
[14:02] <Randomskk> are you free for a few minutes?
[14:02] <jonsowman> i am indeed
[14:02] <Randomskk> want to resume that discussion wrt splitting the list?
[14:03] <jonsowman> oh, yes
[14:03] <Randomskk> I think we got to:
[14:03] <Randomskk> * rename ukhas to ukhas-announce, set to moderated for all new threads though not replies from existing members, then disallow anything that's not a launch announcement or subsequent launch-related discussion
[14:04] <Randomskk> * make a new group ukhas which is for hab discussion, including more in depth discussions related from launches
[14:04] <Randomskk> set the new group to moderated for new members
[14:04] <Randomskk> and write up a proper moderation policy
[14:04] <jonsowman> yep that sounds sensible
[14:04] <jonsowman> i'm in favour
[14:04] <nick_> Would ukhas-launches or something be better than ukhas-announce?
[14:04] <jonsowman> I think Ed was pretty happy with that
[14:04] <Randomskk> nick_: possibly
[14:05] <Randomskk> yes, actually, I think that -launches is clearer
[14:05] <jonsowman> would like to run it by James but he's such a busy person
[14:05] <Randomskk> jonsowman: I was thinking of writing up the plan and putting it to the list for comments, including james.
[14:05] <jonsowman> yes
[14:05] <jonsowman> good idea
[14:05] <jonsowman> to google docs?
[14:05] <Randomskk> way ahead of you :P
[14:05] <Randomskk> one sec
[14:05] <jonsowman> lol
[14:05] <jonsowman> thought you might be
[14:06] <Darkside> i second the idea of splitting the list
[14:06] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Error in APRS Tracker Code"
[14:07] <Darkside> hmm
[14:07] <Darkside> what should i name my cutdown talk..
[14:08] <Darkside> Going Down, Down Under?
[14:08] <jonsowman> haha
[14:08] <Randomskk> haha nice
[14:08] <Randomskk> though
[14:08] <Darkside> but of innuendo there
[14:08] <Randomskk> yes indeed
[14:08] <Randomskk> uhm
[14:08] <Darkside> hrmmm
[14:08] <Randomskk> please don't take it any further than the unmentioned innuendo in the title, if you did that.
[14:09] <Darkside> How about Premature Termination?
[14:09] <Randomskk> same issue
[14:09] <Darkside> :P
[14:09] <Darkside> hmm
[14:09] <Randomskk> bear in mind you will only be furthering stereotypes about tech conferences if you do that
[14:09] <Darkside> it has to be a witty name
[14:09] <Darkside> yeah i get it
[14:10] <Darkside> i did like my talk name for the london hackerspace talk
[14:10] <Darkside> going up, down under
[14:10] <Randomskk> that worked very nicely
[14:10] <jonsowman> Randomskk: what can we do about new members signing up to ukhas but not ukhas-launches?
[14:10] <jonsowman> it would be nice to automatically sign up the former if you sign up to the latter
[14:10] <Randomskk> and I think you could be okay with a slightly innuendo name if you really wanted...
[14:11] <Randomskk> though I'm not entirely sure
[14:11] <Randomskk> but if you referred to it in the talk at all, that'd be a bit dubious.
[14:11] <Darkside> Randomskk: i'll figure something out
[14:12] <Darkside> how about "The big red button: Uplinks & Flight Termination"
[14:12] <Randomskk> less catchy than doing down down under but a bit safer :P
[14:12] <Darkside> :P
[14:12] <Randomskk> going down*
[14:13] <Darkside> i mean, the ultimate goal for a ground-based cutdown system is a big red button
[14:13] <Darkside> ideally with a missle switch too
[14:13] <Darkside> and i'm almost at that point
[14:14] <Randomskk> :D
[14:15] <Darkside> the way my system works at the moment is it downlinks a RTTY string, with temp, battery voltage, so on
[14:15] <Darkside> but after that, and just before it goes into receive mode, it downlinks a short GMSK packet
[14:16] <Darkside> ideally i want the ground-based system to wait for that GMSK packet before uplinking the cutdown command
[14:17] <Darkside> problem is, 70cm local noise on the ground, especially in a chase car, is actually quite a lot higher than on the balloon
[14:17] <Darkside> so detecting that packet is quite hard
[14:19] <Darkside> especially so given the small transmit power from the balloon
[14:19] <Darkside> the other option is to link it into the computer which decodes the downlinked RTTY, but that stops you from doing the standalone system
[14:29] <Randomskk> early feedback please? https://docs.google.com/document/d/19TkdKuJ7KDExcM-W3ZvMeVZ2Y9eT9y7zq74ZBruXHjU/edit
[14:31] <fsphil> from cut-down to touchdown
[14:32] <Darkside> looks good
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[14:32] <Darkside> fsphil: heh
[14:32] <fsphil> nah, I got nothing
[14:32] <jonsowman> fsphil: i like that
[14:33] <Darkside> anyone know what the presentation system is going to be?
[14:34] <Darkside> am i going to be able to plug in my own laptop?
[14:34] <Randomskk> probably
[14:34] <Darkside> hrm
[14:34] <Darkside> i thought upu wanted to do some recording thing
[14:34] <Darkside> i'm just wondering if i shoudl do my presentation in keynote or not
[14:34] <Randomskk> oh
[14:34] <Darkside> i also want to do a live demo thing
[14:34] <Randomskk> yea..
[14:34] <Randomskk> I think you should be okay...
[14:34] <Randomskk> hm
[14:35] <Randomskk> speak to upu
[14:35] <Darkside> mm
[14:35] <Darkside> i don't think he's around
[14:35] <Darkside> but i'll ping him
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[15:35] <gb73d> http://spaceweather.com/submissions/pics/h/Henk-Bril-Neil-Armstrong_1345933301.jpg
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[15:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:47] <DanielRichman> yo cuddykid - in $$HABE,14,21:09:21,52.2790,-2.2414,70,1*23 the fields are count,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,???? <-- what is the last one. Thanks
[15:48] <cuddykid> hiya DanielRichman - that was just a test field (for cutdown testing) - don't think the launch will have the last field - I'll let you know if it does :)
[15:48] <DanielRichman> okay, cool
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[16:21] <DanielRichman> nigelvh_: is $$SWIFT yours?
[16:22] <DanielRichman> I have "SWIFT,157,00:05:50,0.0000,0.0000,-17,4.9,-14,18,101261,0" as count,time,lat,lon,alt,battery,temp,pressure,geofence,??? <-- do you remember what the last field is?
[16:23] <Darkside> DanielRichman: its Upu's
[16:23] <Darkside> and phils
[16:23] <Upu> wut ?
[16:23] <Upu> speak to fsphil
[16:23] <Upu> he did the code
[16:23] <Upu> last digit is the number of flights its done
[16:24] <DanielRichman> cool, thanks
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[16:29] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[16:29] <Upu> just off to walk dog bbs
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[17:15] <fsphil> last field is a flag I think
[17:15] <fsphil> one sec
[17:15] <fsphil> yea, 1 == inside geofence
[17:15] <fsphil> 0 = outside
[17:16] <DanielRichman> fsphil: the config has 'geofence' as the penultimate field
[17:16] <DanielRichman> what's "101261"?
[17:16] <fsphil> pressure
[17:16] <BrainDamage> when are you going to add the "stuck on a tree" bit?
[17:17] <fsphil> that's assumed BrainDamage
[17:17] <DanielRichman> thanks, will update
[17:18] <DanielRichman> fsphil: uh wait a sec. The one before that is labelled as pressure
[17:18] <DanielRichman> okay basically I have a field missing somewhere >_>
[17:18] <fsphil> the current code is saying...
[17:18] <DanielRichman> 157 count, 00:05:50 time, 0.0000 lat, 0.0000 lon, -17 alt, 4.9 battery, -14 temp, 18 ???, 101261 pressure, 0 geofence
[17:18] <fsphil> count,time,lat,lng,alt,voltage,temp1,temp2,pressure,geofence
[17:19] <DanielRichman> ah, two temperatures, cool
[17:19] <DanielRichman> one inside, one outside?
[17:19] <fsphil> yea
[17:19] <fsphil> one's onboard
[17:19] <DanielRichman> ok; presume inside is the second one?
[17:19] <fsphil> better make it the first one
[17:20] <fsphil> it's not defined in the code yet
[17:20] <fsphil> just whatever order they're found during the 1-wire scan
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[20:17] <DrLuke> upu? are you there?
[20:17] <DrLuke> or upuwork
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[21:06] <Upu> hi DrLuke
[21:06] <Upu> here now
[21:06] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb_
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[21:07] <DrLuke> upu: do you mind if I use your neo-6q eagle part in a commercial product?
[21:07] <DrLuke> you didn't have any license on your git...
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[21:08] <Upu> nope
[21:08] <Upu> shoot
[21:08] <DrLuke> (is that a yes?) :P
[21:08] <Upu> that is a yes
[21:08] <DrLuke> ok thanks man
[21:08] <DrLuke> it's my first time I ever get paid for making a PCB :D
[21:09] <Upu> what is the PCB ?
[21:09] <DrLuke> well I'm under a sort-of NDA, sorry
[21:09] <Upu> nps
[21:09] <Upu> understand
[21:09] <Upu> btw you're in Germany ?
[21:09] <DrLuke> yep
[21:09] <Upu> let me know if you want the NEO6's
[21:10] <Upu> I know they are expensive in Germany
[21:10] <Upu> even in bulk and I can get them cheaper
[21:10] <joph> Ü2?
[21:10] <joph> or Ü3 project?
[21:10] <DrLuke> well, I have no idea on how many PCBs they want to make
[21:10] <Upu> well sub 50 NEO6's I know I'm cheaper
[21:10] <Upu> above that come chat we'll sort something out
[21:11] <DrLuke> ok, sounds great :)
[21:11] <Upu> my distributor can't sell in Germany
[21:11] <Upu> but the German distributor are expensiv e
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[21:11] <Upu> evening Lunar
[21:11] <DrLuke> I don't know how far I will be involved in selecting a distributor
[21:11] <DrLuke> but I will definitely suggest you
[21:11] <Upu> well get prices locally ofc
[21:11] <Upu> but give me a shot, Alphamicro who I use can't sell to Germany
[21:11] <Upu> but they can sell to me :)
[21:12] <DrLuke> yep :D
[21:12] <joph> http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Elektronikversender ;)
[21:12] <joph> have fun
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi joph :)
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[21:14] <DrLuke> well, my employer might just buy everything at farnell or rs or some other big distributer
[21:14] <Upu> you can't get ublox there
[21:15] <DrLuke> really?
[21:15] <Upu> nope
[21:15] <Upu> they only have certain distribution channels
[21:15] <joph> DrLuke, you never should use reichelt as distributor ,)
[21:15] <DrLuke> didn't know
[21:15] <joph> cause the choose always the cheapes source for parts
[21:15] <Upu> http://www.u-blox.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=377&CountryId=282&Itemid=231&lang=en
[21:16] <Upu> Direct to uBlox have a nice 70 euro a module day
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[21:17] <Upu> heh ¬75 each from them
[21:17] <daveake> Oh, my invisibility shield must be defective
[21:18] <DrLuke> alright upu, I will definitely mention you to my contact person then :)
[21:18] <Upu> just see what they come up with
[21:18] <Upu> they may reduce that insane price in bulk
[21:19] <Dan-K2VOL> hey upu, let me know if there's anything you'd like me to bring from the US
[21:19] <Upu> Well funny you should mention that Dan-K2VOL :)
[21:19] <Upu> Farnells "US Stock" charge is annoying me atm
[21:20] <Upu> I'll let you know
[21:20] <Dan-K2VOL> def, you can have it delivered to me and I'll bring it on over :-)
[21:20] <Upu> I was going to speak to you about this company who do crystals, they wanted $100 to deliver 20 quartz crystals to the UK
[21:20] <Upu> or $15 in the US
[21:20] <Dan-K2VOL> yikes
[21:20] <Dan-K2VOL> that's ridiculous
[21:21] <Upu> however I've not decided on the spec yet so may come back to you on that
[21:21] <DrLuke> wow
[21:21] <Upu> yeah I read that as "we will do it but we cba"
[21:21] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[21:22] <Upu> which is generally the attitude I've been getting in the UK too
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> oh btw
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> is the NTX2 a heat source?
[21:22] <Upu> I put an NTX2 on 434.200Mhz
[21:23] <Upu> if it uses power it generates heat Lunar_Lander
[21:23] <Upu> whether you can notice it or not is another matter
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <Upu> but yes it will generate heat
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:23] <Upu> I got it on 434.200Mhz but the bandwidth of the module has been reduced which in itself isn't a major issue I just want to know why
[21:23] <daveake> Silly physics
[21:24] <Upu> when do you get here Dan-K2VOL ?
[21:24] <Dan-K2VOL> thursday before the conf
[21:24] <Upu> ok cool
[21:24] <Upu> be sure to pop into see the Queen
[21:25] <Dan-K2VOL> will probably be in the UK till monday, looking forward to meeting you guys :-)
[21:25] <Upu> yeah will be good
[21:25] <Upu> I like this its poignant http://heady.co.uk/b3ta/na.jpg and if you don't get it keep looking
[21:26] <Dan-K2VOL> that's nice
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[22:02] <BrainDamage> for a moment I was "wait, how's possible it's not flat with no atmosphere?" then I saw the horizontal stick >_>
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[22:15] <gonzo_mob> ah nicely done
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[22:30] <jcoxon> wewe phoenix and tiny recovered?
[22:30] <Upu> I'm not sure not heard
[22:30] <Upu> it looked hilly
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[22:53] <BrainDamage> no idea about the module quality, but might be of interest for some here, the first gsm module I saw that costs considerably less than a phone: http://www.ebay.de/itm/SIEMENS-MC389-GSM-900-1800MHZ-GRPS-wireless-Module-/270719845186?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f08290342#ht_1172wt_1271
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> is Upu still on?
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 27 2012