highaltitude.log.20120822

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[06:32] <radim_OM2AMR> morning Upu, many thanks for the parcel :-)
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[06:57] <UpuWork> morning radim_OM2AMR glad it got there
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[08:28] <nosebleedkt> im famous lol :pppp
[08:28] <costyn> nosebleedkt: how's that?
[08:28] <nosebleedkt> they call me on tv shoes
[08:28] <nosebleedkt> :P
[08:29] <nosebleedkt> shows :P
[08:29] <costyn> shoes?
[08:29] <costyn> oh
[08:29] <costyn> :)
[08:29] <costyn> nice
[08:29] <costyn> when?
[08:29] <nosebleedkt> yesterday
[08:29] <nosebleedkt> tomorrow
[08:29] <nosebleedkt> lol
[08:29] <costyn> cool
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[08:31] <nosebleedkt> http://www.skai.gr/player/TV/?MMID=231608
[08:31] <nosebleedkt> after 50th minute
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[08:33] <costyn> have to watch the advertisement in Greek first :)
[08:34] <nosebleedkt> y :P
[08:34] <nosebleedkt> today i spoke to athenian radio
[08:35] <nosebleedkt> and tomorrow they called me from national tv programs
[08:35] <nosebleedkt> and in september to go to a show
[08:35] <nosebleedkt> lol
[08:40] <costyn> very cool
[08:40] <costyn> you did take som very cool pictures
[08:40] <costyn> nosebleedkt: my camera stopped taking picutres on take-off last sunday :(
[08:40] <costyn> it was such a beautiful day too, clear blue skies
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[08:42] <jgrahamc> Morning folks.
[08:42] <jgrahamc> I'm working on my talk for the conference. It's going to be about software problems in HAB.
[08:43] <jgrahamc> Without wanting to name/shame people I'd be interested to hear about real HAB problems that were caused by software.
[08:44] <daveake> Well the common ones are padding issues in longitude/latitude or the sentence count; problems with E/W crossover; altitude being a signed 16-bit
[08:45] <daveake> I've managed 2 of the above :p
[08:45] <jgrahamc> Yes, the padding issues are a good one. Was going to cover that and the sign change.
[08:45] <jgrahamc> The signed 16-bit one is a good one. What flight did that happen on?
[08:45] <daveake> Forgetting to put a ublox in flight mode
[08:46] <daveake> Thought you didn't want to name/shame :D
[08:47] <jgrahamc> Well, I don't want to point fingers, but I do want to tell stories about real flights so people learn from.
[08:47] <daveake> ANU1
[08:47] <jgrahamc> I was going to mention that 'wrong value of pi' that I caught in testing GAGA-1. That would have been embarrassing in flight.
[08:48] <jgrahamc> Is ANU1 written up somewhere?
[08:49] <daveake> Not sure; ask number10
[08:50] <daveake> Oh, I had a cutdown which triggered on a timeout (in case it floated) but I didn't reset that on descent or landing. So it triggered in the back of my car :)
[08:50] <jgrahamc> Fun
[08:50] <jgrahamc> Did you smell burning/
[08:50] <daveake> Only nichrome not a pyro, fortunately
[08:51] <daveake> No. The tracker had a buzzer which would switch on at startup (in case it rebooted on landing) or when it sensed a landing. The cutdown reset the processor so the buzzer sounded. That's how I knew
[08:52] <jgrahamc> Ah
[08:54] <jgrahamc> I seem to remember either eroomde or jonsowman telling me about a flight where the tracker wasn't turned on and they realized just as the balloon was launched.
[08:54] <jgrahamc> Anyone remember what I am talking about?
[08:55] <daveake> Actually I didn't realise the cause at first. It was only the next day when I noticed that the nbylon had been cut. Then I checked the photos from the recovery and could see that the nylon was in place, so I knew the cutdown had triggered sometime later. That's when the penny dropped.
[08:55] <daveake> Oh, and SHARP had some software issues.
[08:55] <x-f> i don't remember who was that, but somebody increased CHDK script's photo interval by 1 second just before the flight, causing an overflow of the variable, which resulted in no photos at all
[08:56] <daveake> cuddykid
[08:56] <daveake> I feel free to name people as I've owned up to so many :D
[08:58] <UpuWork> hey jgrahamc have you found : http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing ?
[08:59] <jgrahamc> Yes, I remember the cuddykid one, it was HABE-1. I already have that in the presentation as a cautionary tale of last minute changes.
[08:59] <jgrahamc> Yes, thanks UpuWork
[09:00] <UpuWork> I think that screen shot was HABE ?
[09:00] <number10> jgrahamc: No I have not written anything up on ANU1
[09:00] <jgrahamc> OK, number10.
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[09:01] <jgrahamc> What were the software problems on SHARP?
[09:01] <daveake> How long you got?
[09:02] <daveake> They lost real time control of the rtty stream, on account of using a non-real-time multi-tasking O/S
[09:03] <daveake> So when they put the different programs together, the rtty stream went all errorororeee
[09:03] <jgrahamc> 30 minutes
[09:03] <fsphil> the sharp project lost focus
[09:03] <daveake> :D
[09:03] <daveake> They also had a premature cutdown
[09:04] <fsphil> I've been lucky and caught the errors in testing
[09:04] <jgrahamc> On GAGA-1 during testing I was seeing garbled RTTY output. Tracked to the fact that the GPS was doing interrupts during RTTY string transmission messing up the timing.
[09:04] <fsphil> but I did make the padding and W/E errors in my first version
[09:04] <daveake> Well mostly that's not luck, that's testing
[09:04] <jgrahamc> fsphil: what sort of errors did you find/
[09:04] <fsphil> that's fair point daveake :)
[09:04] <fsphil> I had %i.%i instead of %i.%05i
[09:05] <daveake> I did that too
[09:05] <fsphil> the negative error meant the sign appears on both values
[09:05] <jgrahamc> That's very common.
[09:05] <daveake> Ah, not quite what I did then
[09:05] <fsphil> so -5.463 appeared as -5.-463
[09:05] <daveake> I had %u but without zero padding
[09:05] <jgrahamc> Yes, I am going to talk about that because it's so common.
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[09:06] <daveake> There should be another talk about hardware / payload issues
[09:07] <fsphil> I did make a silly hardware fault of putting the antenna out the bottom, straight from the flight board
[09:07] <fsphil> so that all of the force of the landing went directly into the pcb
[09:08] <fsphil> no prize for guessing what happened
[09:08] <number10> jgrahamc: I had a double mistake in ANU - not only used signed variable for altitude, but also used %d instead of %u
[09:08] <daveake> :)
[09:08] <costyn> fsphil: haha :)
[09:08] <jgrahamc> Thanks number10
[09:08] <jgrahamc> I made a silly mistake on GAGA-1 with hardware: I assume the battery holder for the AAs for the tracker was strong enough to keep the batteries in. On impact the batteries came out and that was the end of tracking.
[09:08] <number10> its the one thing i didnt test
[09:08] <costyn> jgrahamc: my code has a bug where the data from the gps isn't updated on some rtty strings, but I still have to find it
[09:09] <costyn> jgrahamc: nothing very serious, more of a curiosity
[09:09] <jgrahamc> That's interesting costyn Care to share the code?
[09:09] <daveake> yeah I always tape up the battery holder
[09:09] <jgrahamc> I will on GAGA-2
[09:09] <daveake> Tape the batteries in, and if it has a PP3 clip tape that on too
[09:09] <costyn> jgrahamc: well it's mostly blatantly stolen from jcoxon, I assume he's fixed it in newer versions
[09:09] <jgrahamc> number10: it's always the one thing you didn't test! It's like finding your keys, they're always in the last place you look for them
[09:09] <costyn> jgrahamc: i just haven't had the time to look yet
[09:09] <fsphil> the battery compartment in my payload boxes is only just big enough to hold the batteries
[09:10] <daveake> Also I always remove the reset button from the Arduino (when I used one of those)
[09:10] <jgrahamc> Would a reset have been fatal to your payload?
[09:10] <fsphil> jgrahamc: be a bit silly if you kept looking after you find them :)
[09:11] <daveake> jgrahamc No, assuming the impact wasn't hard enough to kill the GPS too
[09:11] <jgrahamc> On GAGA-1 I used the EEPROM on the Arduino to keep a 'flight data recorder' of information that was not overwritten by reboot. And the telemetry strings actually had the reboot count in them to see if a reboot was suffered in flight.
[09:12] <jgrahamc> If the tracker had died the EEPROM would have had the last known position and altitude.
[09:12] <daveake> My first flight rebooted on impact (the correct word btw!), and I knew because the sentence counter restarted
[09:12] <daveake> I like the EEPROM idea
[09:13] <jgrahamc> Code is here: https://github.com/jgrahamc/gaga/blob/master/gaga-1/flight/gaga1/fdr.cpp
[09:13] <daveake> Will you have time to cover "handy hints" like that - things worth doing as well as bugs to avoid?
[09:13] <costyn> jgrahamc: https://github.com/jamescoxon/Atlas-Flight-Computer/blob/master/Atlas3/Atlas3_3.pde <-- James' code. I see there's no updated version, so I'm thinking this code should still have the bug
[09:14] <costyn> jgrahamc: it would seem while (Serial.available())
[09:14] <costyn> isn't always true
[09:15] <jgrahamc> daveake: that's a good idea.
[09:15] <jgrahamc> What would people say are things worth doing?
[09:17] <daveake> Well, if you're using an rfm22b, those are sensitive to power issues and will reset themselves. So my code polls a register to see if initialisation has been lost, and if so re-inits it.
[09:17] <UpuWork> costyn whats the bug in that software ?
[09:18] <number10> best thing is to use a PIC and write your own code ;)
[09:18] <costyn> UpuWork: well if you look at the sentences I have in the google doc, there are some where the GPS strings aren't updated betwee 2 consequtive strings
[09:18] <UpuWork> hmm ok
[09:19] <number10> on a serious note - its good to use a timer interrupt to get out of any potential while loops that dmay fail to exit
[09:19] <costyn> UpuWork: so the GPS either isn't polled, while (Serial.available()) = false?, or the f_get_position function doesnt work
[09:19] <eroomde> eeprom note: the write cycle life of eeprom is not stellar
[09:20] <UpuWork> ok
[09:20] <daveake> Any code that relies on a remote peripheral being attached needs to cope with it being suddenly unattached. I'm thinking of i2c timeouts etc.
[09:20] <eroomde> atmega rate the eeprom to 100,000 write cycles
[09:20] <jgrahamc> number10: I agree. Going to talk about loops.
[09:20] <UpuWork> Sure Dan had huge issues with I2C
[09:21] <costyn> UpuWork: any column where column O is 0 on the spreadsheet
[09:21] <jgrahamc> eroomde: yes. Although I was only writing a small number of bytes per reboot.
[09:21] <costyn> UpuWork: any *row* :)
[09:21] <UpuWork> sometimes in power saving mode the uBlox report lock as 0 when it actually is 3
[09:21] <eroomde> so say you write a gps pos to eeprom at 1hz, that's 27hrs operation time
[09:21] <jgrahamc> daveake: yes, that's a good one and I was going to cover it.
[09:21] <eroomde> unless to do some wear levelling or whatever
[09:22] <jgrahamc> Good point eroomde
[09:23] <eroomde> i considered this for a rocket to save the state vector it used to put itself in the correct bit of the state machine (eg during burn, during coast, under chute) to cope with a reboot due to whatever violent thing was happening in the rocket. but eeprom wasn't the solution
[09:23] <eroomde> fram was, however
[09:23] <eroomde> ti.com/fram
[09:23] <daveake> A general point would be that if you have an error in a flight, don't assume (like I did) it's a single bug that caused it. On CLOUD1 the telemetry plot was all over the place and could have won the Turner Prize. I found a bug and fixed it, but didn't notice that there were 2 bugs contributing. Hence CLOUD2 painted a similar picture.
[09:23] <eroomde> ferro ram, non volatile, 10^lots write cycles, several Mhz read/write speeds
[09:24] <jonsowman> eroomde: nice, that's got quite a bit cheaper
[09:24] <costyn> UpuWork: funny, seems to happen every 10th string
[09:25] <eroomde> jgrahamc: indeed, I was surprised too
[09:25] <eroomde> no longer sattelites only
[09:26] <jonsowman> might put some on Joey r2
[09:26] <jgrahamc> daveake: that's a good point
[09:26] <jonsowman> speaking of which, I should build another
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[09:27] <eroomde> clang's satic analyser has caught a lot of bugs for me
[09:27] <fsphil> costyn: same thing happened on nigey's flights
[09:27] <costyn> fsphil: did he figure it out?
[09:27] <fsphil> it would duplicate the altitude every x strings
[09:27] <eroomde> static*
[09:27] <fsphil> don't thinkg so
[09:27] <fsphil> -g
[09:27] <fsphil> but x did vary
[09:27] <costyn> fsphil: it's not only the alti, also the coordinates and time stamp aren't being updated,
[09:28] <fsphil> he suspected it was the command to switch to avaiation mode
[09:28] <jgrahamc> daveake: the bugs in CLOUD1 were related to sprintf as you descibed above?
[09:28] <costyn> fsphil: hmm
[09:28] <daveake> One was the padding error
[09:28] <costyn> fsphil: ah yes
[09:29] <costyn> fsphil: there is a if((count % 10) == 0) {
[09:29] <fsphil> yea that's it
[09:29] <costyn> where it does 'checkNAV' and if navmode != 6 setup gps
[09:29] <fsphil> on my own flight I only send the command to set the NAV mode, I don't check it each time
[09:30] <costyn> ok
[09:30] <costyn> fsphil: good one :)
[09:30] <costyn> jgrahamc: so fsphil just figured out my bug :)
[09:30] <fsphil> well not the cause
[09:30] <daveake> The second was to do with E/W signing. like "0.5W" ended up being "-0" and "0.5", then the sign got lost in sprintf, so it would be "0.5" not "-0.5"
[09:30] <fsphil> testing the nav mode shouldn't cause duplicate strings
[09:30] <costyn> well no, but a workaround :)
[09:31] <costyn> fsphil: and you did figure out *why* it was happening :)
[09:31] <fsphil> well, nigel figured out where it was happening :)
[09:31] <daveake> After CLOUD2 I wrote a program to generate NMEA flight data for a dummy flight, then tested on that.
[09:31] <eroomde> let's see if we can engineer a circular credit loop
[09:31] <jgrahamc> Yes, that's the way to go daveake
[09:31] <jgrahamc> I did something similar for GAGA-1
[09:32] <jonsowman> binary protocols are the way forward
[09:32] <jonsowman> none of this ASCII parsing rubbish
[09:32] <daveake> Some may remember the testing ... I ran it on to spacenear and drew a spaceship above London :D
[09:32] <eroomde> it should be a huge problem parsin ascii
[09:32] <eroomde> it just seems to be that c string functions are full of traps
[09:32] <jonsowman> yes
[09:32] <jgrahamc> jonsowman: GAGA-1 used TSIP from the Lassen IQ but then you have to do radians to degrees conversion and...
[09:32] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: true, the Lassen one is annoying. the uBlox one, however, is excellent
[09:33] <jgrahamc> At some point I'll play with uBlox. Unfortunately, money means that I'm going to reuse my current tracker on the next flight and not innovate there.
[09:33] <eroomde> Laurenceb: tracking gps sat doppler and code phase as system states in the state matrix of an EKF or particle filter. It is The Way Forward
[09:33] <daveake> jonsowman Agreed. Must get round to it :)
[09:33] <MrScienceMan> i think i ran out of sram
[09:34] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: AVR? and what's making you think that?
[09:34] <MrScienceMan> wierd behavior
[09:34] <MrScienceMan> and hangs
[09:34] <jonsowman> daveake: they eliminate so many bug sources and make for much cleaner code
[09:35] <MrScienceMan> first the serial hangs, then the LCD hangs
[09:35] <jonsowman> the downside is wading through the binary protocol datasheet from ublox
[09:35] <jonsowman> which is not the world's best written document
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[09:35] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: you can run avr-size on the binary to get an idea of RAM usage
[09:35] <costyn> MrScienceMan: been there done that :)
[09:35] <jonsowman> by "the binary" I mean the .elf
[09:36] <jonsowman> so, not the binary
[09:36] <MrScienceMan> i had some of the working code commented out
[09:36] <MrScienceMan> for testing the LCD
[09:36] <cuddykid> the go bandit arrived this morning! :D
[09:36] <MrScienceMan> uncomment and it broke
[09:36] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: what was the code?
[09:37] <MrScienceMan> aprs modem code
[09:37] <jonsowman> try avr-size
[09:37] <MrScienceMan> apperantly, the compiler is smart and doesnt include the code when i comment out the calls
[09:37] <MrScienceMan> which led me to think, out of sram
[09:37] <daveake> (pedant_mode) That'll be the linker
[09:38] <jonsowman> oh i see
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[09:39] <MrScienceMan> moved some stuff in progmem
[09:40] <MrScienceMan> now only the serial failed, but everything else is still working
[09:40] <fsphil> progmem is great for tables
[09:40] <MrScienceMan> i've got a lot of static strings
[09:41] <jonsowman> printf_P()
[09:41] <jonsowman> and PSTR()
[09:41] <fsphil> my rtty functions have an _R variant
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[09:43] <fsphil> it's great for putting in error messages out over the radio
[09:43] <fsphil> or just general debug messages
[09:43] <jonsowman> :)
[09:45] <eroomde> or sending down uplinked strings
[09:45] <MrScienceMan> PSTR
[09:45] <eroomde> on the first test of the uplink we showed off by taking requests on irc for strings to send down from the balloon
[09:45] <MrScienceMan> excellent, that might be just what I need
[09:46] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: yes, probably. don't forget to include <avr/pgmspace.h>
[09:47] <fsphil> and whatever function you pass it to has to be aware of progmem
[09:47] <fsphil> it can't be handled as a normal string
[09:48] <jonsowman> yes, you need to use the utility functions in pgmspace.h which can handle flash pointers rather than RAM pointers
[09:50] <MrScienceMan> figured that out, me and C are old pals
[09:50] <jonsowman> :)
[09:52] <fsphil> nice
[09:55] <costyn> fsphil: do you know why James' code has the ntx powered off at the moment the checkNAV is done?
[09:56] <fsphil> don't
[09:56] <fsphil> power saving?
[09:56] <costyn> for 3 seconds?
[09:56] <fsphil> not much saving
[09:56] <costyn> nope :)
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[10:03] <MrScienceMan> haha, now the ide preprocessor broke
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[10:06] <cuddykid> http://www.joshingtalk.com/2012/08/joshingtalk-space-art-success.html video of the 'space art'
[10:07] <fsphil> +f
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[10:14] <daveake> I'd suggest that the brown represented the amount of bullshit in the article, but since it doesn't fully cover the canvas I shall not.
[10:15] <jgrahamc> Wow.
[10:15] <jgrahamc> And not in a good way.
[10:17] <jgrahamc> I see from Twitter that daveake is going for a Guinness World Record for the recent flight
[10:18] <UpuWork> lol
[10:18] <UpuWork> yup :)
[10:18] <daveake> Yeah, had my arm twisted last night by that Matt guy
[10:19] <daveake> Probably by the time it goes through (if it does) it'll be beaten anyway
[10:19] <daveake> And I blame Upu for telling me to do it :D
[10:20] <UpuWork> no point doing the altitude record as it changes every week
[10:20] <daveake> True!
[10:20] <griffonbot> Received email: martin bud "[UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[10:20] <daveake> At least with the "live" images there are very few flights doing it. So far anyway.
[10:21] Nick change: joph -> peteeeee
[10:21] Nick change: peteeeee -> joph
[10:21] <fsphil> does that mean I'm second highest with the images?
[10:21] <daveake> Did you beat Tim?
[10:21] <fsphil> probably not
[10:22] <daveake> Well no then :D
[10:22] <fsphil> I got 34km
[10:22] <daveake> Tim's was 35.5 I think
[10:22] <fsphil> I do however have a 1600g balloon, and a very light payload :)
[10:22] <eroomde> live images or images images?
[10:22] <daveake> Go for it :)
[10:22] <daveake> Tim's was "live"
[10:22] <fsphil> and hopefully permission to launch soon
[10:22] <daveake> Haha
[10:22] <fsphil> live*
[10:22] <daveake> I see a flaw in your plan
[10:23] <fsphil> predictions at the moment are having it landing in scotland
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[10:23] <eroomde> one of the italian engineers showed us a map of the test setup for testing airbags once
[10:23] <eroomde> it was labelled 'flaw plan'
[10:23] <eroomde> which turned out to be surprisingly prescient
[10:23] <jgrahamc> :-)
[10:26] <number10> what dates have you asked for fsphil ?
[10:26] <fsphil> every weekend in september
[10:27] <fsphil> I have to get quite wide range of dates due to the weather and limited land area
[10:29] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[10:30] <fsphil> for me the advantage of solar panels is a beacon after landing
[10:30] <fsphil> could transmit for a very long time
[10:31] <jgrahamc> That's a possibility.
[10:31] <jgrahamc> Assuming you are the right way up!
[10:31] <daveake> That and floaters. No point otherwise.
[10:31] <fsphil> exactly
[10:32] <jgrahamc> GAGA-1 managed to bounce upside down: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hwMGHYdhGII/TaQJQyg33XI/AAAAAAAAAkA/PaCNBiPrCxc/s1600/Picture%2B5.png
[10:32] <fsphil> I'm gonna have a panel on either side jgrahamc :)
[10:32] <eroomde> it's as bright as I remember it :)
[10:32] <fsphil> though for testing it'll just be a single panel
[10:32] <jgrahamc> It is very bright
[10:32] <fsphil> after searching the dales for a silver grey box
[10:32] <fsphil> bright is good
[10:33] <fsphil> bright is brilliant
[10:33] <jgrahamc> That paint + eroomde's eyes made GAGA-1 recovery easy
[10:33] <BrainDamage> next step: fluorescin dispersion capsule? :p
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[10:35] <fsphil> put meat on payload. just look for the circling birds after landing
[10:36] <eroomde> fsphil: that's really a very good idea actually
[10:36] <jgrahamc> Next stage should be ability to hover until you arrive to collect it.
[10:36] <eroomde> especialy round oxfordshire
[10:36] <eroomde> the red kites would be all over it
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[10:39] <fsphil> I've not seen too many birds of prey here, just the odd sparrowhawk
[10:39] <daveake> Red Kites are common as muck here
[10:40] <daveake> Quite impressive when the swoop down to pick up some road kill in front of you
[10:40] <daveake> they
[10:40] <fsphil> well that's a record .. ordered a RPi on sunday, just arrived
[10:41] <daveake> Blimey
[10:41] <daveake> So they are in stock now
[10:41] <fsphil> in CPC at least
[10:41] <fsphil> the RS one still hasn't been posted
[10:41] <chris_99> you guys seen this http://www.gnss-sdr.org/documentation/gnss-sdr-operation-realtek-rtl2832u-usb-dongle-dvb-t-receiver
[10:42] <BrainDamage> I ordered one on RS at beginning of july, still not shipped :/
[10:42] <daveake> The model A should be out soon
[10:42] <daveake> Much better option for flights - about half the power
[10:44] <fsphil> maplin will be selling them soon too
[10:44] <daveake> Yeah saw that
[10:44] <UpuWork> I hate Maplins
[10:45] <fsphil> I called into the one in belfast in the way back from scotland
[10:45] <fsphil> got a nice aluminium box for the habamp
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> chris_99: I see extensive use of Kia Borre code
[10:47] <chris_99> what's that Laurenceb?
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> he wrote SDR GPS in matlab
[10:48] <chris_99> aha
[10:48] <costyn> K Borre is referenced at the bottom
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> his code works well for me after a few fixes
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> ive often got <5m error with 5 or 6 sats
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> on my windowsill
[10:49] <costyn> very impressive
[10:49] <chris_99> does it require matlab though then?
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> especially with no ionospheric correction
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> i use octave
[10:49] <chris_99> or can you generate C from it
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> havent tried
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> tbh its not especially complex
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> im sure you could rewrite in c
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[10:50] <chris_99> cool
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> fnobel seems to be doing that on github
[10:51] <Laurenceb_> but Kia Borres code has some serious quantisation issues in the position solver
[10:51] <Laurenceb_> i had to fix that first
[10:51] <chris_99> aha
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[11:03] <MrScienceMan> jonsowman: does printf_P print to Serial?
[11:03] <jonsowman> you have to set up the streams to work with the USART
[11:03] <MrScienceMan> what i suspected
[11:03] <jonsowman> printf_P will print to stdout
[11:03] <jonsowman> so you need to redirect stdout to the USART
[11:04] <MrScienceMan> i might make a buffer and just copy to, print from
[11:04] <jonsowman> it's like two lines of code
[11:04] <jonsowman> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__stdiodemo.html
[11:04] <jonsowman> at the bottom, open stdiodemo.c
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> is that buffered?
[11:04] <fsphil> its possible to have printf go out over rtty too
[11:05] <jonsowman> Laurenceb_: no
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:05] <jonsowman> not in that implementation
[11:05] <jonsowman> you could easily modify uart_putchar() to buffer it though
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> i was wondering if it was automatically buffered via heap or something
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah of course
[11:06] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: if you do use it, you might as well use the USART setup stuff in uart.c/h on that page
[11:06] <MrScienceMan> ill make my own wrapper function
[11:06] <jonsowman> then you need lines 38 and 58 in stdiodemo.c
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[11:27] <cuddykid> hmm - where's the cheapest place for microSD card on the high st?
[11:27] <cuddykid> PC world and the likes are horrendous
[11:27] <fsphil> !argos
[11:27] <fsphil> tesco is occasionally alright
[11:28] <cuddykid> ah yes, forgot about Mr Ts
[11:28] <daveake> Yeah try Tesco
[11:28] <cuddykid> thanks :)
[11:28] <daveake> *sometimes* PCWorld and its clone do half-reasonable prices in their specials
[11:29] <daveake> Oh, I got a 64GB card for the next Pi flight :-). £33+VAT on ebuyer - pretty good I thought
[11:29] <cuddykid> oh - Maplin isn't bad actually
[11:29] <cuddykid> daveake - that's good!
[11:29] <daveake> I have Raspbian on it. 2GB and 3% used lol
[11:29] <fsphil> very good
[11:30] <cuddykid> it has to be a class 10 one for the gobandit which bumps the price hugely
[11:32] <cuddykid> £14.99 for C10 16Gb micro from Maps - not too bad
[11:32] <cuddykid> in comparison to £30 from PC World
[11:32] <daveake> ouch
[11:33] <daveake> For the Pi flight I had a card and a webcam die a couple of days before the launch. Got a pair of 8GB cards for £12 and a pair oc C270 webcams for £25 from PCWorld. Not bad I thought.
[11:33] <cuddykid> good buy
[11:33] <daveake> Both were reduced/specials. Normal prices are silly.
[11:34] <cuddykid> I bet that was a quick run in/out - that place is awful
[11:34] <daveake> Yes, very
[11:34] <cuddykid> did they try and sell you some sort of warranty for it?
[11:34] <daveake> Splash and dash on the way to get the H2
[11:34] <daveake> lol
[11:35] <daveake> "Does your warranty cover items at -55 in the stratosphere?"
[11:35] <cuddykid> lol
[11:35] <cuddykid> looks like Maplin it is - tesco want £27.99 for a C10 one!
[11:36] <cuddykid> I'm guessing 16GB will be enough as battery is ~2.5hrs and at 1080p it dumps 7.6Gb/hr
[11:37] <cuddykid> so probably not worth the extra for 32Gb
[11:37] <daveake> You're going to struggle to get the entire flight in 2.5 hours
[11:38] <cuddykid> just need up until burst and a little of descent
[11:38] <daveake> You'd have to switch the thing on right before launch
[11:38] <daveake> OK
[11:38] <cuddykid> you can connect this thing via wifi to phone so I'm hoping to do a remote turn on - providing you can remotely switch the wifi on the camera off
[11:39] <daveake> I aim for 4 hours+ from cameras. Then there's no pressure to get the thing launched after powering up the camera
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[11:39] <cuddykid> that's the ideal way yep
[11:41] <fsphil> wifi downlink of images from a payload stuck in a tree
[11:41] <fsphil> good idea
[11:41] <cuddykid> that would be good but I think the batts would have conked out by then :(
[11:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement: XABEN-31 Wednesday/Thursday"
[11:43] MrScienceMan (~zo@46.47.80.192) left irc: Quit: leaving
[11:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement - this weekend (25th/26th August)"
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[11:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Solar Panels"
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[11:54] <griffonbot> Received email: martin bud "RE: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[11:57] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=dd1358c7d3f042670bb0304b405bea20d50f7b8f
[11:58] <cuddykid> looks ok
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[12:02] <fsphil> that's alright
[12:03] <fsphil> launch is late in the day?
[12:03] <cuddykid> yeah, hoping for an evening sunset launch
[12:04] <griffonbot> Received email: martin bud "RE: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[12:05] <fsphil> ahh. the low sun does produce some nice shadows
[12:07] <jgrahamc> Is anyone interested in exploring modifications to the common 'key chain cameras'? I've been discussing with the manufacturer in China of the #16 808 camera modifications to make it controllable via a microcontroller.
[12:08] <chris_99> Laurenceb, what did you use as a SDR btw?
[12:08] <jgrahamc> They have previously taken feedback from Western users (adding things like a removable battery and ability to run from external power)
[12:08] <UpuWork> best modification: Wrap in Foil. Leave on ground.
[12:08] <jgrahamc> So, that's one thing to discuss with them. Interference.
[12:09] <UpuWork> yep
[12:13] <fsphil> turning off the timestamp would be nice
[12:16] <jgrahamc> That's already doable.
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[12:17] <fsphil> could be just on the one I have? I only found out how to change the timestamp through a text file
[12:17] <fsphil> not disable it
[12:18] <jgrahamc> The newer firmware offers a lot of control through the TXT file.
[12:18] <jgrahamc> What model number camera do you have?
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[12:18] <daveake> jgrahamc I interfaced to one, using some transistors to fake the push buttons
[12:18] <jgrahamc> daveake: did you write that up?
[12:18] <jgrahamc> I was planning something similar.
[12:18] <daveake> Think so ... just trying to find it :)
[12:18] <jgrahamc> But I would like positive feedback that that has worked.
[12:18] <fsphil> it's at home jgrahamc, I will check when I get back if I can find it
[12:19] <daveake> The pics on that one weren't worth the effort. Recent models are much better
[12:19] <jgrahamc> OK fsphil let me know.
[12:19] <radim_OM2AMR> jgrahamc, I would like to fly two 808 #16 cameras
[12:20] <radim_OM2AMR> I modified txt file, so cameras are without timestamp
[12:20] <jgrahamc> radim_OM2AMR: I have two #16 cameras and one #11 (did have two but treated the second one badly)
[12:20] <fsphil> I'd also like a small camera that doesn't have a rolling-shutter
[12:20] <fsphil> but that's probably not going to happen
[12:22] <radim_OM2AMR> jgrahamc: I checked interference also, I put the camera in front of active GSP antenna, still have GPS fix
[12:22] <daveake> Hmm looks liek I didn't (though I thought I did). Here's a pic taken during assembly of the payload it ended up in. You can see some of the control stuff dead-bugged on to the camera board - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/P1030195-1024x768.jpg
[12:23] <jgrahamc> Good. Although I've got so much foil in GAGA-2 that I think it'll be ok. http://blog.jgc.org/2012/01/gaga-2.html
[12:23] <jgrahamc> daveake: Nice.
[12:24] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake, is it #11 or #16 cam ?
[12:24] <daveake> That one - no, older. This was done nearly a year ago
[12:25] <jgrahamc> Did you take photos or video with it?
[12:25] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake: did you use just that small lipo battery, or some external power for cam also ?
[12:26] <daveake> Both. It was something like 30 secs of video, then 5 images, then repeat. It all kicked in above a certain altitude - it was completely off till then
[12:26] <daveake> That lipo got removed before flight. It ran from the flight Lithiums
[12:26] <daveake> Better photo - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6124549456/in/set-72157627579944313
[12:27] <daveake> and the other side - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6124001605/in/set-72157627579944313
[12:28] <daveake> The pictures were craptastic. e.g. http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6259555043/in/set-72157627784758417
[12:29] <radim_OM2AMR> I'm planning to use separate 4xAA with 5V LDO for powering those 2 cams - it's about 600 mA for continuos video rec
[12:29] <radim_OM2AMR> with internal battery fully charged on the launch
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[12:31] <fsphil> yay, usb extension cable arrived. costyn, you can launch now!
[12:31] <fsphil> oh
[12:31] <daveake> haha
[12:31] <number10> I have just been messing around with ublox program u-center and it seems you can reconfigure the ublox and get it to save to flash
[12:32] <number10> so instead of doing lots of config on the tracker you could do it once before hand
[12:32] <jonsowman> number10: they don't have non volatile memory onboard
[12:32] <jonsowman> you either need a backup battery or external EEPROM - Joey has the latter
[12:32] <number10> aha - must be the evaluation board I am using jonsowman
[12:33] <fsphil> I'd just set it each time anyway
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[12:33] <fsphil> having it in the program means you never have to worry about it
[12:33] <jonsowman> but yes you are correct - I just set it once using Ucenter, save to EEPROM, and forget about it
[12:33] <daveake> yeah it's not much code
[12:33] <jonsowman> i do check it on startup anyway though
[12:33] <daveake> And you ought to test that it was previously done, in which case you might as well set it anyway
[12:34] <number10> no I suppose not worth it really - especially as I already have the code written in my tracker
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[12:34] Nick change: russss_ -> russss
[12:34] <jonsowman> on the other hand, the EEPROM IC is tiny and about 30 pence
[12:34] <daveake> It could save you having to send anything to the GPS, thus possibly freeing up the Tx line for something else.
[12:35] <number10> anyway - it was usefull for my work application that wont have the gps rx connected
[12:35] <jonsowman> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6992637583_f5533dba25_z.jpg
[12:35] <jonsowman> 8 pin IC above the GPS, on the left
[12:35] <number10> is that on bottom rhs
[12:35] <number10> ok
[12:35] <jonsowman> nope, bottom rhs is a USB ESD protection thing
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[13:08] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Solar Panels"
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[13:18] <cuddykid> got the microSD card - go bandit films great footage
[13:18] <cuddykid> very similar to gopro - 170degree field of view
[13:19] <cuddykid> gives the fish eye effect
[13:19] <daveake> There are 2 reasons I've not bought a gopro, and that's one of them
[13:19] <daveake> other is the cost :)
[13:20] <cuddykid> cost is ridiculous
[13:20] <cuddykid> the go bandit costs around £270 I think
[13:20] <daveake> Would be good to have a decent wide angle (like 24mm equivalent on a FF SLR)
[13:21] <cuddykid> wondering whether 1080p at 30fps is better than 720p at 60fps
[13:21] <daveake> Otherwise, for stills, stitching can do it
[13:21] <cuddykid> yep
[13:21] <daveake> What I dislike is the Earth going over-convex one moment then concave the next
[13:22] <cuddykid> lol
[13:22] <cuddykid> from what I've seen so far the fish eye effect isn't as extreme on the gobandit
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[13:24] <UpuWork> you can fix that in Photoshop 6 DanielRichman
[13:24] <UpuWork> err daveake sorry Daniel
[13:24] <daveake> Yes. Needs fixing :)
[13:24] <radim_OM2AMR> daveake: yep, goPro con's - price, fish-eye ;-)
[13:27] <daveake> Anyone recommend good stitching software?
[13:29] <UpuWork> for images ?
[13:29] <UpuWork> As used by Nosebleed with great effect
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[13:30] <BrainDamage> linux or windows?
[13:30] <BrainDamage> hugin should be cross platform
[13:30] <UpuWork> Windows
[13:31] <daveake> windows
[13:31] <daveake> tvm UpuWork
[13:33] <fsphil> hugin is nice
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[13:53] <gonzo_> anyone know of a phone application and assiociated website, that will give the same functionality as the HAB chase-car / spacenearus ??
[13:54] <gonzo_> it's for a non-HAB application
[13:54] <costyn> gonzo_: what phone?
[13:55] <gonzo_> prob either iphone or android
[13:55] <costyn> gonzo_: iphone has 'find my iphone' and 'find friends', but they don't provide publicly accessible websites with tracking info
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[13:55] <gonzo_> Couple of people at work doing a serious bike ride for charity and would be nice to have a url to chart their progress.
[13:56] <gonzo_> Woudl havwe thought that sort of thing would be out there somewhere
[13:56] <BrainDamage> google latitude
[13:56] <gonzo_> ta, BrainDamage, will do
[13:56] <jgrahamc> I did the London Brighton night ride this year and was considering using the GAGA-1 tracker, but there are plenty of bike apps that do live uploads.
[13:57] <BrainDamage> if you have google maps installed, you got google latitude as well
[13:57] <BrainDamage> the program is "google latitude", I didn't mean google as verb
[13:59] <UpuWork> RunKeeper, Google Latitude
[14:00] <gonzo_> hehe, I did realise that when I googled it!
[14:00] <UpuWork> Runkeeper is more setup for bikes/running
[14:00] <jgrahamc> I've used cyctastic while riding
[14:00] <x-f> there's always Endomondo
[14:01] <jgrahamc> I didn't use it for live tracking that night (although it does it) because I realized my whole family was planning to sleep and not wonder where I was at 0300 :-)
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[14:10] <nosebleedkt> .
[14:11] <gonzo_> just check out the locations of pubs along the route. That would be a good bet
[14:11] <gonzo_> these guys asked if they could borrow a HAB tracker for the week. Had to explain the system.
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[14:36] <cuddykid> gonzo_: mapmyride is free and provides web UI to track ride live
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[14:40] <nick_> I've thought about making things like mapmyride with some more info to log journeys
[14:47] <gonzo_> thanks all for the suggestions. Have passed them on.
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[14:48] <BrainDamage> I don't know if it's any interest here, but E4000 tuner datasheet and app notes got leaked: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=e55f3f5f75b5a7bb&id=E55F3F5F75B5A7BB!1160
[14:48] <gonzo_> As usual they are doing all this at the 11th hour. So hopefully they will find something easy to set up. (And having to get a french sim)
[14:49] <nick_> One thing I think would be kinda neat would be to take video and/or photos as well as measuring the angle of the bike and then rotate the images to keep the ground level
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[15:02] <mikeyb> hi all. I'm trying to track down a BMP085 pressure sensor but can't seem to find one (in the UK) that isn't already on a breakout board, which adds about a tenner to the cost. Anyone know a good source for these?
[15:03] <kt5tk-7> Have you tried farnell?
[15:04] <mikeyb> yep - farnell and rs - both have the freescale sensors, not this one (which seems to be much more accurate). Only place I can find is digikey but I'm pretty sure that's going to involve a whacking great customs charge
[15:07] <kt5tk-7> How about ebay?
[15:08] <mikeyb> :-) good shout actually, there are a couple there from HK without the breakout. I keep forgetting to look there for SMD stuff.
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[15:18] <DrLuke> sparkfun sometimes also sells the pure ICs without the breakout. Obviously it's gonna be a bit expensive, but in the end cheaper than ordering from digikey
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[15:38] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[15:39] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
[15:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Vander Houwen "Re: [UKHAS] RE: Solar Panels"
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[15:43] <BrainDamage> dx.com sells breakout boards for the cost of the single chip elsewhere: http://dx.com/bmp085-barometric-digital-pressure-sensor-module-board-for-arduino-blue-147261?item=4
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[15:43] <BrainDamage> 8$
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[15:52] <jgrahamc> I'd never gone to dx.com until people here starting talking about it. Now I have no money left.
[15:53] <daveake> HAB does that to you anyway
[15:54] <jgrahamc> That too.
[15:56] <daveake> Highly Addictive Ballooning
[16:00] <DrLuke> haha
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[16:02] <nick_> Is Nigel in here?
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[16:03] <eroomde> he's found some computer game apparently
[16:04] <eroomde> no one has seen him since
[16:04] <nick_> Sounds like (from his email) he worked on/with BESS polar people
[16:05] <nick_> Which is a cool experiment
[16:05] <eroomde> oh different nigel
[16:05] <eroomde> sorry
[16:05] <eroomde> nigelvh: ^
[16:05] <nick_> They launch a large, but relatively light superconducing magnet
[16:05] <nick_> nigelvh: exist?
[16:06] <nick_> How did I not notice that in the list of nicks? Too much coffee...
[16:06] <nick_> nigelvh: did you work on BESS polar?
[16:06] <eroomde> he's in america so this might be not-at-computer-o-clock
[16:07] <nick_> Of course it is
[16:07] <nick_> Their work hours are 0600-2000
[16:07] <nick_> 50 weeks of the year
[16:07] <nick_> (or just because he sent an email to the list 25 mins ago)
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[16:13] <Laurenceb> eroomde: yeah means wales nigel?
[16:14] <Laurenceb> *meant
[16:14] <eroomde> correctos
[16:14] <Laurenceb> ah, wondered where he went
[16:16] <jgrahamc> What happened to him?
[16:18] <eroomde> a computer game
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[16:21] <Laurenceb> my only game is called life
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[16:22] <nick_> Which game is he addicted to?
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[16:30] <jgrahamc> More crazy rover people emailing me :-) These guys seem to think their stuff is whats needed: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/88
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[16:32] <BrainDamage> well, it's not an horrible idea per se
[16:32] <BrainDamage> I mean the contest
[16:32] <Randomskk> pololu do have some nice things but
[16:33] <Randomskk> it's amusing just how many companies are emailing going "look at my stuff! make a rover with this!"
[16:33] <Randomskk> I bet you could get all sorts of free samples :P
[16:33] <eroomde> or rather
[16:33] <jgrahamc> I wonder that too.
[16:33] <eroomde> 'make a blog post about making a rover with this!'
[16:33] <BrainDamage> it has to be a video blog
[16:33] <Randomskk> eroomde: well indeed
[16:33] <jgrahamc> That's essentially what Farnell offered me: pick something from our catalogue and you can have it if you write a blog post about it (up to £x)
[16:34] <russss> hah, I've not seen those pololu chassis. They look quite cool.
[16:34] <russss> jgrahamc: yeah Farnell do that a lot
[16:34] <BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what's x?
[16:34] <jgrahamc> Let me check.
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[16:34] <jgrahamc> Only said x because I forgot
[16:34] <russss> when they asked a friend of mine, x was £30, iirc
[16:35] <BrainDamage> yes, but I'd be interested in an order of magnitude
[16:35] <BrainDamage> 10-50-100-500 etc
[16:35] <russss> not really enough to get anything exciting
[16:35] <jgrahamc> So, they said £25 and I persuaded them to give me something for £38: http://blog.jgc.org/2012/07/the-tenma-72-8730-ir-thermometer.html
[16:36] <BrainDamage> ok, 10-50 range, I guess it changes with notability of the user
[16:36] <BrainDamage> I bet if bob pease did that, he'd have got 1k >_>
[16:36] <jgrahamc> The Pololu motors don't have shaft encoders on them in that chassis.
[16:37] <eroomde> they've shafted you
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[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> my payload box is done and loaded and currently running another endurance test :)
[16:43] <eroomde> currently running
[16:43] <eroomde> I see what you did there
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[16:44] <BrainDamage> endurance running
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander> this time it has 4 energizer lithiums instead of 3
[16:46] <DrLuke> hi
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> payload weighs 467.2 g
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> hi DrLuke
[16:46] <eroomde> good mass
[16:46] <DrLuke> so is there any way to actually check whether my ublox is set up correctly?
[16:47] <eroomde> fly it :)
[16:47] <DrLuke> :P
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[16:48] <DrLuke> well, I've set the Nav5 setting to airborne <4g, that should do the trick, right?
[16:49] <eroomde> yes
[16:49] <eroomde> iirc
[16:50] <BrainDamage> jgrahamc: taking a peek at your site, you might want to add a 1-line suggestion how to compile the copymove program, something along the lines of "gcc -lfreeimage -lm copymove.c -o copymove" ( I saw it's old news )
[16:50] <jgrahamc> Because of all the people asking me to port it to Matlab?
[16:50] <jgrahamc> :-)
[16:51] <BrainDamage> yes :p
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello jgrahamc
[16:52] <jgrahamc> It's probably the right thing to do.
[16:52] <jgrahamc> Hello
[16:52] <jgrahamc> Did you compile it BrainDamage ?
[16:52] <BrainDamage> yup
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[16:53] <jgrahamc> Great, then you are the one person who doesn't want the Matlab version, or a port to Visual C++, or for me to do everything for them...
[16:54] <jgrahamc> Did you need something Lunar_Lander ? Going to step away from the machine sortly.
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> just wanted to say hello
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:55] <jgrahamc> OK
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> btw eroomde when I left the internal temp as measured by the BMP085 had risen from 30 to 33 degrees
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[17:03] <DrLuke> I need some styrofoam
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[17:07] <DrLuke> also I need to tear down this nokia 6120, even though it pains me
[17:07] <DrLuke> but it's too heavy
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[17:39] <cuddykid> BrainDamage: ah yes, that brings back some distant memories from physics
[17:39] <cuddykid> should be ok then - thanks BrainDamage
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[17:42] <eroomde> my rule of thumb which works nicely is that the resistance of copper wire (standard temps) is: 19/[cross-sectional area in mm^2] Ohms per km
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[17:48] <Randomskk> eroomde: hehe yes
[17:48] <Randomskk> pretty terrible restoration
[17:48] <nosebleedkt> yo
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello nosebleedkt
[17:52] <DrLuke> I wonder what made her think that it's a good idea
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[17:54] <nick____> jesus made her do it
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> that's like in the first Mr Bean movie where he tries to repaint Whistler's mothers head with a pen
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[17:54] <nick____> He wanted to break the white guy with a beard stereotype
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[18:05] <HixHome> evening guys, can anyone recommend any C++ channels on IRC, also which server they are on?
[18:10] Nick change: Darkside1 -> Darkside
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[18:14] <Matt_> Hi guys, can anyone reccomend a good 70cms mobile antenna for RTTY rx use?
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[18:16] <Darkside> Matt_: so for a mobile antenna you don't really want high gain
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[18:16] <Darkside> as you're often going to be underneath the balloon
[18:16] <Darkside> so, a smallmagbase works well
[18:17] <Matt_> really?... low gain is better??....
[18:17] <Darkside> Matt_: what country are you in?
[18:17] <Darkside> Matt_: gain means narrowing of directivity
[18:17] <Matt_> England
[18:17] <Darkside> and if you're chasing a balloon, it's unlikely to be on your horizon
[18:17] <Darkside> it's more likely to be somewhere above you
[18:17] <Darkside> maplins sell a small magbase that works well, if you cutdown the whip they give you
[18:17] <Matt_> People keep going on about Collinear.... whats the deal?.... Is this better for our application?
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[18:18] <Darkside> not for a chase car
[18:18] <Darkside> colinear means gain
[18:18] <Matt_> ok
[18:18] <Darkside> a simple 1/4 wave monopole work very well for a mobile chase antenna
[18:19] <Matt_> so I guess running a preamp is a bad idea too huh?
[18:19] <Darkside> the only thing better is a cross-dipole, but they're a bit of a pain to use
[18:19] <Darkside> oh, use a preamp if you want
[18:19] <Darkside> it'll helkp
[18:19] <Darkside> but if you're chasing, you probably won't need it
[18:19] <Matt_> but that assists gain?....
[18:19] <Matt_> and you say gain is bad
[18:19] <Darkside> well, it increases signal
[18:20] <Darkside> for antennas, gain means an increase in directivity
[18:20] <Darkside> for a vertical co-linear antenna, an ingrease in gain means the antenna receives best towards the horizon
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[18:20] <Darkside> your balloon is not going to be towards the horizon
[18:20] <Darkside> Matt_: we can talk in here
[18:21] <Darkside> its not like theres anyone else talking
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[18:21] <Matt_> ok
[18:21] <Matt_> understand it a lot better now, thanks
[18:21] <Darkside> so yeah, a simple 1/4 wave works best for mobile use
[18:21] <Darkside> and the maplin magbase is a cheap way of doing it
[18:21] <Darkside> i'll find a link
[18:22] <Matt_> any reccomendations other than Maplin?
[18:22] <Matt_> although a link would be much obliged... thaks
[18:22] <Darkside> http://www.maplin.co.uk/mitex-radio-external-antenna-512877
[18:23] <Matt_> thanks mate
[18:23] <Matt_> Would this also be up to the job of using static, not involved in a chase?
[18:23] <Darkside> sure, if you want
[18:24] <Matt_> just gives the option of moving between vehicle & car then
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[18:27] <HixHome> anyone know why u-center would refuse my request to set NAV mode to airborne <1g ?
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[18:28] <HixHome> http://i.imgur.com/v3zsq.png are my settings for it
[18:28] <Matt_> Darkside.... how would I know how much to chop off that mag whip?
[18:30] <Darkside> Matt_: you want to make the antenna 16.2cm long
[18:30] <Darkside> ish
[18:30] <Darkside> +- a few mm doesn't matter that much
[18:30] <Matt_> is that 1/4 wave of the center frequency?
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[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> quarter wave antennas are cool
[18:33] <Darkside> Matt_: a little bit les
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> I tried them today on my payload and wandered around with my Yaesu in the physics building
[18:33] <Darkside> the general rule is 0.235 * wavelength for a 1/4 wave monopole
[18:33] <joph> a spiral antenna has a higher "nice value" :D
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> one floor below and on the other wing of the building I still had S9 reception
[18:33] <Matt_> thanks mate. never fail to get good help on here!
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[18:43] <HixHome> Upu, quick question about uBlox MAX-6 and flight mode. apparently you can only set airborne with firmware <= V3.01 any idea what your chips were at? or how to poll for that info?
[18:44] <Upu> hey HixHome
[18:44] <HixHome> hey
[18:44] <Upu> Sure you can get it from the u-center
[18:44] <Upu> but all the ones i have used can do airborne
[18:44] <Upu> all the ones I've sold
[18:45] <HixHome> hmm keep getting 18:44:57 UBX ACK-FAILURE, Size 10, 'Not Acknowledged'
[18:45] <HixHome> obviously at different times :D
[18:46] <HixHome> http://i.imgur.com/v3zsq.png
[18:46] <HixHome> are my settings I'm trying to send
[18:47] <Upu> its under NAV5 isn't it ?
[18:47] <jonsowman> yeah you want NAV5
[18:48] <jonsowman> it will ignore the others
[18:48] <HixHome> yup - done it. Cheers. Now I can save the config
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[19:15] <Upu> Question on Eagle : I made a polygon (GND) which goes right to the edge of the board. Thermal is uncheck and when I hit rats nest it doesn't fill to the edge of the board, any ideas why ?
[19:15] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/zdEFd
[19:15] <Upu> You'll have to zoom in on the top pic as I'm using thin polygon lines
[19:16] <jonsowman> check the Isolate setting
[19:16] <Upu> set to 0
[19:16] <jonsowman> there's another one with a similar name also iirc
[19:16] <jonsowman> Spacing
[19:17] <Upu> thats set to 1.27 but its for when you set the pour from solid to cross hatch etc
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu jonsowman
[19:17] <Upu> can't change it
[19:17] <Upu> hi Lunar
[19:17] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, my payload weighs 467.2 g
[19:17] <Upu> hmm indeed :)
[19:18] <Upu> back to the drawing board Lunar and get rid of that 0.2g just not acceptable
[19:18] <Upu> I'm a bit confused :)
[19:18] <jonsowman> me too
[19:19] <jonsowman> Upu: it's generally not adviseable to have it filled to the edge of the board anyway
[19:19] <Upu> I know but is miles off
[19:19] <jonsowman> in DRC, what is your copper dimension set to?
[19:20] <Upu> ah ha
[19:20] <Upu> jonsowman have a HAB point
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, XD
[19:20] <jonsowman> :)
[19:20] <Upu> have 2 thx
[19:20] <jonsowman> lol no problem
[19:23] <Gadget-Mac> ooh cool, curiosity descent vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZX5GRPnd4U&feature=youtu.be
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> very
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> LOL the top comment "Why is this not on the nasa website? Makes me think it's fake. Where did youÿ obtain this?"
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> UPS?
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> like the parcel service with the brown trucks?
[19:35] <daveake> Yeah one of their trucks got eaten
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> not good
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, how warm can a payload become when running on the ground?
[19:38] <BrainDamage> chances are stuff will actually get warmer on the upper atmosphere layers
[19:38] <BrainDamage> because lower air density = worse convection
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:39] <daveake> How hot depends on many factors of course, so I can't answer that
[19:39] <daveake> You're doing physics? You calculate it!
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> I just wanted to test the low-level question protection system
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:40] <daveake> It passed
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> but the payload has a great range
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> I walked around with the yaesu to see the signal strength while the payload was in the lab
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> I had S9 all around the physics building
[19:43] <daveake> So when are you planning to fly it?
[19:43] <daveake> The payload that is, not the building
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> that is the thing I haven't set a date yet and we want to test it on the roof
[19:44] <daveake> The roof? Why?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> to see how long it runs and on the roof it has GPS lock
[19:45] <daveake> So does your window, but whatever
[19:46] <daveake> It is worth doing such a test, but you can calculate the approx time anyway: Battery capacity / current consumption. Much quicker.
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> 110 mA is the consumption
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> btw what I wanted to mention
[19:47] <daveake> So about 27 hours
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:47] <daveake> Assuming AAs
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> AA
[19:47] <daveake> There you go. No need to wait 27 hours for the answer :)
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> I soldered the battery leads to the arduino power in as you said
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:47] <Upu> Watch this Lunar
[19:48] <Upu> Dave old chap how long do you think a Arduino payload will run with no power saving with 4 x AA Energizer Lithiums ?
[19:48] <daveake> About 40 hours
[19:48] <Upu> I say how splendid, will this run time differ if the payload is on a roof ?
[19:49] <daveake> No it won't
[19:49] <Upu> Excellent
[19:49] <Upu> see Lunar saved you about 40 hours
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
[19:49] <Upu> just got back to your professor and say "Akerman" said so
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:49] <daveake> lol
[19:50] <daveake> I think it's about time Lunar learnt another programming IDE
[19:50] <Upu> if he asks who "Akerman" is just look at him like he said he molests hamsters and walk out
[19:50] <daveake> Eclipse
[19:50] <daveake> He probably does
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I heard of Eclipse
[19:51] <daveake> I didn't doubt it
[19:51] <DrLuke> is there any easy way to unscrew torx screws without a torx scredriver?
[19:52] <daveake> Get a Torx set. You know it makes sense :)
[19:53] <DrLuke> :P
[19:53] <DrLuke> I have one, but it ends with one size too big
[19:53] <DrLuke> which is bugging me right now
[19:59] <DrLuke> damn, they built the nokias as if they were hiding pure gold in them
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[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi radim_OM2AMR
[20:02] <radim_OM2AMR> hi Linar_Lander :-D
[20:02] <radim_OM2AMR> oops sorry Lunar_Lander
[20:03] <radim_OM2AMR> how are you ? Are you prepared for the first flight ?
[20:03] <DrLuke> nice
[20:03] <DrLuke> shaved 20 grams off the battery :3
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> radim_OM2AMR, working towards it
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke, XD
[20:05] <DrLuke> :P
[20:05] <radim_OM2AMR> me2 :-D
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[20:08] <natrium42> moin kevin
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42
[20:15] <DrLuke> http://i50.tinypic.com/68xb2f.jpg
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[20:33] <DrLuke> I found a neat way to screw out torx: allen keys
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:33] <eroomde> when you say 'neat'...
[20:34] <DrLuke> well
[20:34] <DrLuke> it works!
[20:36] <DrLuke> wow
[20:36] <DrLuke> this phone is so amazing on its inside
[20:37] <DrLuke> they have a neat connector connecting both boards inside
[20:38] <eroomde> what kind of connector?
[20:38] <DrLuke> let me take a pic
[20:39] <cuddykid> very odd behaviour - I upload code onto the atmega328 (arduino boot loader) - and then it works fine straight after upload. However when I pull the plug on the power and boot it up again it refuses to work
[20:39] <eroomde> ty
[20:39] <cuddykid> refuses to work = doesn't even run through setup
[20:39] <eroomde> totally stock bootloader?
[20:39] <eroomde> the code doesn;r so any self modyfying stuff?
[20:40] <cuddykid> eroomde: yup
[20:40] <cuddykid> eroomde: nope
[20:40] <eroomde> has it been within 20m of the bullshitey-bollocksey-tart field emited by josh?
[20:40] <cuddykid> lol
[20:40] <cuddykid> yes
[20:40] <eroomde> enough to fuck any transistor
[20:40] <cuddykid> hahaha
[20:40] <cuddykid> plugged it in again and now it's working
[20:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement: XABEN-31 Wednesday/Thursday"
[20:41] <cuddykid> ah - it might be a failing chinky USBtinyISP
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> XD eroomde
[20:41] <cuddykid> eroomde: have you seen the 'space art' vid?
[20:41] <DrLuke> eroomde: http://i50.tinypic.com/wlpvg5.jpg
[20:42] <eroomde> cuddykid: don;t even go there
[20:42] <eroomde> DrLuke: thanks
[20:42] <cuddykid> eroomde: lol
[20:42] <jonsowman> cuddykid: have you got the programmer unplugged when you try and reboot the AVR?
[20:44] <cuddykid> jonsowman: I was rebooting by yanking the ISP lead out - however it seems when I do that the whole power to USBtinyISP stops too so now unplugging and replugging USB lead out of USBtinyISP does the trick
[20:44] <cuddykid> think it was just me
[20:44] <cuddykid> :P
[20:44] <eroomde> I sat there in the field trying to realise the achievement of what just happened.
[20:44] <jonsowman> yeah that can lead to erratic resets because the programmer can hold the IC in reset
[20:45] <jonsowman> you should be resetting the device by using a Reset button attached to the AVR /RESET pin
[20:45] <jonsowman> or power cycling
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[20:45] <jonsowman> the programmer should remain plugged into the AVR and the computer
[20:46] <cuddykid> but& there is some dodgy things going on with the AVR when it's powered on - for example it's just randomly created a file "MOG.TXT" and entered a little bit of the data it was meant to put in "log.txt" :S
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[20:46] <jonsowman> buffer overflow?
[20:46] <cuddykid> never had it before
[20:46] <eroomde> gamma radiation from space fart
[20:47] <jonsowman> i don't think that's related, though it could be
[20:47] <cuddykid> could it be a lack of PROGMEM? I have got rather a lot of code on this "sketch"?
[20:47] <cuddykid> haha
[20:47] <jonsowman> itym a lack of SRAM
[20:47] <jonsowman> in theory yes
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[20:47] <jonsowman> are you storing strings etc in flash?
[20:47] <jonsowman> if you whack the code up somewhere i'll have a quick look when i get a sec
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[20:48] <cuddykid> no, just the usual declarations etc
[20:48] <cuddykid> I'll cut a chunk out and upload - see if that helps
[20:48] <cuddykid> brb
[20:48] Nick change: pjm -> Guest7366
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[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi all
[20:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar
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[20:55] <Upu> evening Brian
[20:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi upu
[20:55] <Upu> missed you this weekend :)
[20:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> looks like we have had a uninitial ballon launch here in DK
[20:55] <Upu> oh ?
[20:55] <Upu> still up ?
[20:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> this weekend?
[20:55] <Upu> yeah Costyn launched should have been in range of you
[20:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah a zoo here in DK have lost there 8kg ballon, its afloat somewhere over DK LOL
[20:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sorry 8m long ballon
[20:56] <Upu> lol
[20:57] <Upu> no tracker I guess :)
[20:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> size of 4 elefants they say
[20:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no tracker
[20:57] <Upu> damn next time they do that lets get a tracker on it :)
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[20:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe yeah they should have called
[20:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu regarding the weekend, ive pretty busy remodeling my new place, so im not allway on the beat regarding launches. But do msg me on msn, if i can assist
[20:59] <Upu> Sure I told Costyn to mail you
[20:59] <Upu> Keep forgetting I have you on MSN
[20:59] <Upu> Renamed you :)
[21:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok dont recall any email from him. MSN is also on my cell, so should be with range most of the time
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, did the LES test of copenhagen suborbitals work?
[21:00] <Upu> no probs
[21:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander not all of it, it tumbled and didnt reach the alt, so a big splashdown as the paras didnt deply correctly
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> http://www.bt.dk/sites/default/files-dk/node-images/504/5/5504504-ballon.jpg
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[21:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> reported over sweden now LOL
[21:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> pilot reported seeing it a 1500m floating east, its right in the flightpath for 2 major airports, not ideal
[21:13] <jgrahamc> What is that balloon?
[21:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its a commercial ballon from a Zoo
[21:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> billboard ballon, or whatever one would call it
[21:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is a "Robert Harrison" part of HAB ?
[21:16] <jonsowman> http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/about/
[21:16] <jonsowman> yes
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[21:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jonsowman ok just came across a news storry about Robert, on a danish web, while searching on that stray blaoon
[21:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ballon
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[21:19] <jonsowman> ah ok
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[21:19] <eroomde> balloon
[21:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok thanks
[21:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jonsowman not that you would understand much of it http://www.b.dk/verden/nasa-overhalet-af-ballon-amatoer , but maybe relay it to him, if he wants it.
[21:21] <jonsowman> he is on here sometimes
[21:21] <jonsowman> quite rarely these days
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[21:22] <eroomde> nasa something a baloon amatuer
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[21:22] <eroomde> balloon*
[21:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> in short word, he launch the ballon and take nice picture and nasa wants to know how he did it
[21:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> balloon :-)
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[21:26] <eroomde> i think nasa know how he did it
[21:27] <eroomde> i think the nasa thing might have been a liitle over-exuberance by someone's inner pr spokeman somewhere
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[21:29] <Paradoxia> Sounds like some guy who happens to work at NASA and who had never heard of HABs called him
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[21:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> could be, just came across it, with searching for news on that zoo ballon
[21:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> with-while
[21:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> better get some sleep, typing getting bad. GN all
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[21:45] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAvS1ndtEKg&feature=youtube_gdata_player is sorta related near the end.
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[21:57] <Laurenceb_> in other news prince harry seems to be using the wrong hole
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> "ur doing it wrong"
[21:57] <DrLuke> :)
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[21:58] <DrLuke> alright, in total I reduced the weight by 60 grams on this phone
[21:58] <DrLuke> I am proud
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[22:00] <Upu> thats a good effort DrLuke
[22:00] <DrLuke> thanks
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[22:00] <DrLuke> sadly I can't remove more weight because the people at nokia are good engineers
[22:00] <DrLuke> their RF shielding is brilliant
[22:01] <DrLuke> next I remove the LEDs to conserve battery power
[22:01] <DrLuke> and then I'll see whether it's viable to power the whole payload with the phone's battery
[22:01] <Upu> can you replace the battery with some energizers ?
[22:01] <DrLuke> li-ions are good over temperature, right?
[22:01] <Upu> over ?
[22:01] <Upu> I think they go to about -20 ?
[22:02] <DrLuke> oh
[22:02] <DrLuke> well, I could try the energizers, but the phone has datapins for the battery
[22:02] <KT5TK_QRL> But the cell phone produces heat
[22:02] <DrLuke> true
[22:02] <DrLuke> well, I'll just use the original battery
[22:02] <KT5TK_QRL> My Android G1 worked up to 103 kft
[22:02] <DrLuke> it only weights 30 grams or so
[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> with the standard Lipo
[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> just the GPS stopped working at 60 kft
[22:03] <DrLuke> http://i47.tinypic.com/wsa1qr.png
[22:04] <DrLuke> the bottom tape is to hold the keyboard-pcb in place for the RF shielding, the top one is to hold the battery contacts in plae
[22:04] <DrLuke> place*
[22:04] <Upu> Reminds me : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/dietA710-goodbits.jpg
[22:04] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/dietA710-waste.jpg
[22:04] <DrLuke> minimalistic camera?
[22:04] <Upu> yeah
[22:04] <DrLuke> nice
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[22:05] <DrLuke> I was a bit saddened when my parents told me that they sold our old digital camera
[22:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Who buys an old camera?
[22:05] <DrLuke> I have no idea
[22:05] <DrLuke> HABbers maybe :P
[22:06] <KT5TK_QRL> Well then it must have been real cheap
[22:06] <jonsowman> i have purchased 300% more 'used' cameras than 'new' ones in my lifetime
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[22:06] <jonsowman> and yes, for HAB
[22:07] <DrLuke> yeah
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[22:07] <DrLuke> well I'm still looking for an old point and shoot
[22:07] <DrLuke> if anyone got one
[22:07] <jonsowman> ebay
[22:08] <DrLuke> well, I'll ask around my friends first
[22:08] <DrLuke> somebody must have an old one
[22:08] <jonsowman> is this for HAB/CHDK?
[22:08] <DrLuke> HAB
[22:08] <DrLuke> it doesn't have to be CHDK compatible
[22:08] <jonsowman> fair enough
[22:08] <DrLuke> rigging a small transistor to the trigger should do the job
[22:08] <jonsowman> CHDK does make things quite easy
[22:08] <jonsowman> I like it
[22:09] <DrLuke> yeah
[22:09] <DrLuke> it's cool
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[22:09] <DrLuke> but the cams are pretty expensive on ebay
[22:09] <jonsowman> we got some (admittedly not great quality ones) for around 30GBP each
[22:10] <DrLuke> well that's pretty expensive for me :)
[22:10] <DrLuke> jobless student etc.
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[22:10] <jonsowman> hehe
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[22:10] <jonsowman> so were we, but we got sponsors
[22:10] <DrLuke> that's also why I made such an effort to shave off those few grams off this phone
[22:10] <DrLuke> the less weight the better
[22:10] <jonsowman> I still am, in fact
[22:10] <DrLuke> sponsors?
[22:11] <jonsowman> companies or institutions to give money to the project in return for a logo on the payload or something
[22:11] <jonsowman> see bottom of http://apexhab.org
[22:11] <DrLuke> oh that's cool
[22:11] <DrLuke> did you approach them, or did they approach you?
[22:11] <jonsowman> we approached them
[22:12] <DrLuke> well
[22:12] <DrLuke> I thought about offering HABs to my university once I'm a little bit more experienced
[22:12] <DrLuke> so they can attach their payload to the bottom
[22:12] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:13] <jonsowman> it's always worth looking for funding from companies etc
[22:13] <jonsowman> we found it was easier than we expected
[22:14] <DrLuke> cool
[22:14] <DrLuke> I should ask linde to pay for all the hydrogen :P
[22:14] <jonsowman> BOC sponsored helium for both Apex (above) and CUSF
[22:14] <jonsowman> it is always worth asking
[22:16] <jonsowman> for educational not-for-profit projects, lots of companies are actually very interested and willing to donate some cash or goods/services
[22:16] <DrLuke> thanks for the tip :)
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[22:17] <DrLuke> I guess all I need now is a neat looking website
[22:17] <DrLuke> so it will look like something
[22:17] <jonsowman> it does help
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[23:17] <KT5TK_QRL> In case anyone wants to play with PSK: https://github.com/tkrahn/AD9835_PSK31
[23:22] <DrLuke> what kind of RF-amplifier do you use?
[23:22] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.sm0vpo.com:800/tx/qrp-hf1.htm
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[23:23] <DrLuke> that looks scary
[23:24] <KT5TK_QRL> It works really fine though
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[23:26] <KT5TK_QRL> But 14 MHz is almost DC. So any modern OP Amp should work
[23:27] <Randomskk> neat.
[23:27] <Randomskk> what's the phase noise like?
[23:27] <KT5TK_QRL> I have a recording, wait
[23:28] <KT5TK_QRL> https://www.dropbox.com/s/415v6rtq7x429gd/USB%2014.070MHz%208-18-2012%207%2029%2013%20AM%20%28trimmed%29.mp3
[23:28] <KT5TK_QRL> That's the data from the complete BLT-31 flight
[23:28] <Randomskk> cool
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[23:28] <KT5TK_QRL> The signal shows up between 400-500 Hz in this MP3 capture and the file size is ~31MB
[23:29] <KT5TK_QRL> It was recorded from about 50 miles distance
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 23 2012