highaltitude.log.20120821

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[00:05] <NSS> greetings
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[00:10] <NSS> Payload is on dummy load for a bit outside on deck, I'll bring it in shortly and put it on the antenna
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[00:17] <kc9doa> Listening on 10.145
[00:18] <NSS> where ru again?
[00:19] <NSS> duh fon do lac i bet too close between us
[00:21] <kc9doa> Could be, but OCFD is low so NVIS possible
[00:22] <NSS> yeah could be I'll say when transmitting.,, Im afraid it went into the no gps mode. It when it looses the gps goes into a sleep mode like where it transmits only once every five minutes. and in the shack here it can't see da birds
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[00:25] <NSS> here it went,, anything?
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[00:27] <kc9doa> My noise level went from 0 to s7 so I probably can't copy anything anyway.
[00:28] <NSS> yeah probably not. far too far fort ground wave and far to far close for any skip.
[00:28] <KT5TK_QRL> NSS where are you?
[00:29] <NSS> Wisconsin
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[00:30] <KT5TK_QRL> Hmm, I'm still at work. All I can do is check websdr
[00:31] <KT5TK_QRL> Not much available on 30m
[00:31] <NSS> my problem right now is it has gone into a sleep mode, when it looses gps lock it saves energy by transmitting only once every 5 minutes, and here in the shack it can not see any birds.
[00:32] <KT5TK_QRL> How long will you leave it on?
[00:33] <NSS> how long do you need?
[00:33] <KT5TK_QRL> I'll need about half an hour to get home
[00:33] <NSS> sure
[00:34] <NSS> I'm gonna put it back on the dummy load and outside for a while.
[00:37] <KT5TK_QRL> OK, I'm on my way
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[00:38] <kc9doa> I'm not going to hear anything here. S5-7 noise, bars every 50Hz on the waterfall. 73 de Mike kc9doa
[00:44] <NSS> take it easy mike
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[00:53] <NSS> Greetings
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[00:55] <wb5rmg> late to the party, had to mow some before dark... /;^) anyone still here ? Is the Tx still on ?
[00:56] <NSS> Only a local showed up. where r u?
[00:56] <wb5rmg> I'm in Huntsville, about a mile from wb8elk...
[00:57] <wb5rmg> well, when he is at home . . . /;^)
[00:58] <NSS> ahhhh OK, you might be able to hear it then, I had to put it back on the dummy load, and set it back on the deck railing. Outside no antenna, inside has antenna but can not see the GPS birds so it goes into a slep mode. where it transmits it's last known location but only once a minute UG he he he
[00:58] <NSS> kt5 shopuld be home shortly can ya stick around?
[00:59] <wb5rmg> had a bad buzzing noise when I first signed on, but I'll listen for a few. /;^)
[00:59] <NSS> bummer
[00:59] <NSS> how long can ya stick around.?
[01:00] <wb5rmg> I can be around more later, needta heat up some leftovers for din-din soon...
[01:01] <NSS> ok in about 5 min or so I'll hook it back up to the real antenna,
[01:01] <wb5rmg> something you could try now, and maybe again later ?
[01:01] <wb5rmg> ok, so I'll stick around for a bit now...
[01:01] <NSS> think the band might be too oong then,.
[01:01] <wb5rmg> expecting CW and ascii RTTY, right ?
[01:02] <kc9doa> I'm seeing a strong signal centered at 10.130 looks like RTTY with 850 Hz shift that I can't decode and it is tearing up the TS-2000 receive.
[01:02] <NSS> right now it is RTTY only
[01:02] <NSS> dummy load at this moment
[01:02] <NSS> are you ready? I'll bring it in.
[01:03] <wb5rmg> sure, go fetch it..
[01:03] <NSS> BRB
[01:04] <NSS> ok on antenna stand by
[01:05] <NSS> there it went,, anything?
[01:05] <wb5rmg> I heard some RTTY, what do I select for FLIGHT again ?
[01:06] <NSS> kb9kho_b
[01:06] <wb5rmg> ok, found it
[01:07] <wb5rmg> not as strong that time, didn't copy
[01:08] <NSS> hopefully it won't go into sleep mode soon he he he
[01:08] <NSS> good feature, but not when testing he he he
[01:08] <wb5rmg> tell me as soon as it starts
[01:09] <NSS> now
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[01:10] <NSS> hi tk it's up and running rmg is hving partial copy
[01:10] <kt5tk-7> back at my radio
[01:10] <NSS> crap thats not gonna help
[01:10] <kt5tk-7> what's the frequency again?
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[01:11] <NSS> 10.145 usb
[01:11] <KC0BMF> 10.145
[01:11] <wb5rmg> looks like some email on freq just now...
[01:11] <NSS> just transmitted
[01:12] <NSS> boy thats an annoying sounding signal.
[01:12] <wb5rmg> covered up just now, maybe it will finish soon.
[01:12] <NSS> still got gps right now so far
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[01:14] <wb5rmg> quiet now, maybe next cycle
[01:15] <kt5tk-7> should be rtty, correct?
[01:15] <NSS> yup
[01:15] <NSS> i think it just lost the birds again
[01:16] <wb5rmg> I didn't see it this time
[01:16] <NSS> just now
[01:16] <NSS> it missed a minute must hve lost lock. on my clock it transmits at 15 pst the minute
[01:17] <wb5rmg> think I saw a few, and am on freq now.. for next cycle - pretty weak tho
[01:17] <NSS> missed 15 again.
[01:18] <NSS> anything it went
[01:18] <wb5rmg> if it just Tx'd, I think I saw traces in the WF
[01:18] <NSS> yup
[01:19] <kt5tk-7> nothing here
[01:20] <NSS> transmitting
[01:20] <wb5rmg> I saw it, and the AFC was trying, but it didn't get any, UK, here comes the AMTOR again
[01:21] <NSS> transmitting
[01:21] <wb5rmg> cover'd up again
[01:22] <NSS> the sig must be up by me, it's very weak here
[01:23] <wb5rmg> only an S1 or S2 here, but it is enough to pump the AGC enough to squash your flea-power /;^)
[01:23] <NSS> transmittingyeah fast agc helps
[01:24] <NSS> now
[01:26] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[01:26] <NSS> well thanks guys for the try,
[01:27] <wb5rmg> Maybe earlier in the efvening as you did earlier
[01:27] <NSS> watch for the announcements of when it will fly
[01:27] <wb5rmg> any chance to try tomorrow as well ?
[01:27] <NSS> sure any time?
[01:28] <wb5rmg> i dunno, maybe about the same ?
[01:28] <wb5rmg> 7pm C
[01:28] <NSS> I'm not on this bnd often enough to know when it is open to what areas ya know?
[01:29] <wb5rmg> i dunno, of course WWV was strong when we started
[01:29] <KC0BMF> Look at the WSPR.org it might give you an idea
[01:29] <NSS> and thats a lot further away distance between us. skip might be just too LONG how early can ya get in here?
[01:30] <NSS> will check that out
[01:30] <kt5tk-7> was changing antennas and receivers but no luck
[01:30] <wb5rmg> wsprnet.org
[01:31] <wb5rmg> cant get here b4 6pm C, but maybe off and on for a few hours after that
[01:32] <kt5tk-7> just got some rtty with 200 hz shift, but couldn't decode
[01:32] <NSS> wasn't me I shut er down I went to wsprnet.org how do I use this?
[01:33] <wb5rmg> select 30m map (may be default)
[01:34] <NSS> done
[01:35] <NSS> what do the colored linesmean?
[01:35] <wb5rmg> im on ballonatics email list... you may still have my email from before (@arrl.net works)
[01:35] <NSS> accoring to that map yeah skip looks kinda long
[01:36] <wb5rmg> i'll check to see... 73
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[01:37] <NSS> take care everyone will try again tomorrow at 7PM CDT ( 00:00Z Tuesday)
[01:37] <KC0BMF> colered lines don't mean much
[01:37] <KC0BMF> colored
[01:39] <NSS> Ok was wondering if like signal strength or something
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[05:51] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[07:47] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[08:22] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[08:34] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[08:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[08:40] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[09:00] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[09:00] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[09:01] <fsphil> eh
[09:02] <daveake> wtf?
[09:02] <UpuWork> time warp
[09:03] <gonzo_> 'wtf' sounds like the noise of a wet mattress hitting the floor
[09:04] <fsphil> also the sound of a facepalm
[09:04] <daveake> You've wet your mattress and then dropped it on the floor? :/
[09:05] <gonzo_> hehe, nice phil
[09:05] <gonzo_> yep, it happens at a certain age dave
[09:05] <daveake> ah
[09:06] <daveake> Do they also make gupping, willomying and flolloping noises?
[09:07] <daveake> *daveake is now known as Zem
[09:09] <gonzo_> I thought that was only when the were dropped down stairs
[09:09] <fsphil> lol
[09:10] <gonzo_> (googles willoming, finds uncyclopedia and spits tea over monitor!)
[09:13] <daveake> I shall keep my globbering to a minimum
[09:17] <gonzo_> been a very long time since I read the later THHGTTG books. Had forgotten that
[09:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[09:22] <fsphil> dare I read it?
[09:22] <MrScienceMan> yeah, took me about a minute to recognize that quote
[09:22] <fsphil> ah it's ok
[09:23] <fsphil> I've not read those books since I was at school
[09:23] <gonzo_> I shall hand my head in shame. (Though that tends to get it all in my hair)
[09:23] <gonzo_> hang
[09:24] <fsphil> it's difficult to get shame out of hair
[09:24] <fsphil> needs shamepoo
[09:24] <gonzo_> hair hair, very funny
[09:24] <fsphil> I'll be hair all week
[09:24] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[09:36] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[09:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[10:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Radim Mutina "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[10:05] <cuddykid> sodding winds
[10:06] <gonzo_> stay off the pickled eggs
[10:11] <cuddykid> haha
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[10:16] <kokey> what camera is that that jcg wants to use on GAGA-2?
[10:19] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[10:20] <UpuWork> ask him kokey :)
[10:22] <kokey> oh, old post that I've seen before
[10:22] <kokey> it's one of those keychain ones
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[11:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
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[11:31] <fsphil> woo, thunder
[11:32] <Darkside> woo
[11:32] <Darkside> hey, eroomde or whoever
[11:33] <Laurenceb> rockety person
[11:33] <Darkside> one of the guys here at bath has an idea for a kin fof educational payload
[11:33] <eroomde> i don't think whoever is on this channel
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[11:33] <Darkside> so, at the altitude we get to, we get to very low pressures
[11:33] <Darkside> ant above 35km or so, ths pressure is at the point where water cannot exist in liquid form
[11:34] <eroomde> uhuh
[11:34] <Darkside> so, how about a payload, which contains a bottle of water, sealed, which is opened at an altitude where t epressure is below that point
[11:34] <Darkside> with a video camera pointing at it
[11:34] <Darkside> what you should see is the water sublimating
[11:34] <Laurenceb> ...
[11:34] <Laurenceb> and?
[11:34] <Darkside> just as an interesting little chemistry demonstration
[11:34] <eroomde> unless it's frozed
[11:35] <Darkside> ajjh
[11:35] <Darkside> ahh
[11:35] <Darkside> but even if it is froxen, the temp up there is warmer
[11:35] <Darkside> so you'll see the ice sublimate away
[11:35] <x-f> i've seen video from a HAB with boiling water, i think it was NSS project
[11:35] <BrainDamage> can't you do the same with a vacuum pump for approx the same cost of a balloon launch?
[11:35] <Darkside> BrainDamage: perhaps, but this would be visually more interesting :-)
[11:36] <Darkside> x-f: got a link?
[11:36] <x-f> looking for it..
[11:37] <gonzo_> or a gas syringe. (Which are good fun)
[11:37] <eroomde> http://dao.mit.edu/8.231/PurePhases_files/img20.gif
[11:37] <eroomde> i think it might just be ice
[11:37] <eroomde> -40C, pressure ~ 10^-3 bar
[11:37] <Randomskk> it'd probably freeze wouldn't it
[11:37] <Randomskk> wait
[11:38] <Randomskk> I didn't scroll down enough
[11:38] <Randomskk> sigh
[11:38] <Darkside> you could also launch a small icecube
[11:38] <Darkside> and have a heater
[11:38] <Darkside> as at that altitude it wouldn't melt into water, it's just sublimate away
[11:38] <Darkside> that'd be kind of cool
[11:39] <eroomde> i'm not sure
[11:40] <eroomde> if i could be bummed i would plot temp vs pressure for a hab flight on top of that phase diagram
[11:40] <eroomde> i suspect it might always lie in the ice region
[11:40] <eroomde> i mean, one the temp is <0 anyway
[11:40] <Darkside> well we've seen temperatures get warm enough
[11:40] <Darkside> at high altitudes, like 38km or so, it does heat up
[11:40] <Darkside> and again, just have a heater in there with it, to get it warm enough
[11:41] <eroomde> sure, if you force it into the right region you'd be ok
[11:41] <Darkside> yep
[11:41] <eroomde> it does heat up a little bit
[11:41] <Darkside> showing an ice-cube sublimating would be cool
[11:42] <fsphil> a 30km cloud
[11:42] <eroomde> i think the word is subliming
[11:42] <Darkside> yeah
[11:42] <eroomde> ie the ice cube would sublime, rather than sublimate
[11:42] <eroomde> but i'm not 100% sure
[11:42] <eroomde> just that's how i've always heard it
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[11:55] <x-f> no luck finding it, but it had small bottle of water, couple of smaller balloons, marshmallows, and a banana on the payload
[11:56] <x-f> i think it was one of those grands - NSS, EOSS or some other group
[11:57] <eroomde> grants?
[11:57] <eroomde> as in the groups that have funding to fly uni projects on a regular basis?
[11:58] <Randomskk> groups?
[11:58] <x-f> grand as in big and with history
[11:58] <x-f> probably not the right word
[11:58] <eroomde> never seen it as a noun tis all
[11:58] <eroomde> but i see what you mean :)
[11:58] <eroomde> but yes, the guys who have done hundreds of flights
[11:59] <eroomde> they have some kind of state grant to fly highschool/college projecs every couple of weeks/month, and do like 10 payloads on a 3kg balloon that never quite makes it above 100,000ft :)
[11:59] <eroomde> kd7lmo of ansr (sadly killed in a bike accident about 3 years ago) was a big help to me early on
[11:59] <eroomde> his stuff was great
[12:00] <eroomde> just have a look at his payloads
[12:00] <eroomde> http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/hf-aprs_hardware.html
[12:00] <eroomde> beautiful stuff
[12:00] <eroomde> very clever too
[12:01] <Randomskk> wow.
[12:01] <Randomskk> indeed.
[12:01] <eroomde> he uses a dds to generate the hf, but also taps vhf out of it by bandpass filtering one of the images from the dds
[12:01] <daveake> impressed
[12:01] <eroomde> and cleaning that up and amplifying it
[12:02] <eroomde> which is a neat little trick
[12:02] <eroomde> and he used the same lpc2xxx arm7 chips which we used to use on our flight computers. they were/are lovely
[12:03] <eroomde> just there's cortex m3 nowadays
[12:05] <fsphil> I've got a DDS for trying the ISM HF stuff
[12:05] <eroomde> http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/picobeacon_hardware.html
[12:05] <eroomde> this is nice too
[12:06] <eroomde> tcxo and dds = drift free and freq agile 420-450Mhz
[12:06] <Randomskk> not to mention with the right dds you can do all kinds of clever modulation modes
[12:06] <eroomde> yup
[12:07] <Darkside> well
[12:07] <Darkside> nastily
[12:08] <Darkside> depends on the DDS...
[12:08] <eroomde> http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/picobeacon_hardware.html
[12:08] Action: eroomde slow claps
[12:08] <Darkside> i'm working on optimising phase shaping for an analog devices dds
[12:08] <eroomde> < Randomskk> not to mention with the right dds
[12:09] <Darkside> the problem is, the DDSes that do all the nice stuff like pulse shaping and so on, use shittons of power
[12:13] <Darkside> i'm trying to clean up the PSK output from this DDS by doing manual pulse shaping
[12:13] <Darkside> where i use a number of discrete steps between 0 and 180 degrees
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[12:14] <Darkside> i'm trying to optimise what steps and what time between steps give me the lowest first harmonic
[12:14] <Randomskk> it's a shame there's no easy way to make your own analogue ICs
[12:14] <jgrahamc> That's beautiful stuff, so sad that the person behind it is no longer with us.
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[12:16] <eroomde> it is
[12:17] <eroomde> that site and JP Aero are good for browsing interesting stuff
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[12:18] <eroomde> JP do payloads that are more up my street: http://jpaerospace.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Away66_launch.jpg
[12:19] <eroomde> http://jpaerospace.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Away66_1.jpg
[12:19] <kokey> is that cone at the bottom solar panels?
[12:19] <eroomde> no
[12:19] <eroomde> just a bag of pong sats
[12:20] <eroomde> which are experiments built into a pingpong ball
[12:20] <kokey> aah, cool
[12:20] <eroomde> which they fly for schools and so on
[12:21] <kokey> I wonder how many used that launch pic for a facebook background
[12:21] <eroomde> http://jpaerospace.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Away-65-1.jpg
[12:21] <eroomde> you can see it better here
[12:21] <nick_> Does anyone know of any awesome pong sats?
[12:21] <kokey> now _that_ is a nice photo
[12:22] <eroomde> photos with the payload in situ are always more fun
[12:22] <nick_> I can't think of any cool ping pong ball sized experiment
[12:22] <eroomde> everyone just flies 20cm x 20cm x 20cm polystyrene boxes with an outward looking camera now
[12:23] <eroomde> it's no fun anymore
[12:23] <Randomskk> that's not true
[12:23] <Randomskk> I've seen a range of interesting boxes
[12:23] <Randomskk> people have flown 3d printed plastic ones
[12:23] <nick_> IT would be a little amusing to make a tiny game of pong with one AI player and one controlled by an accelerometer
[12:23] <Randomskk> spheres
[12:23] <UpuWork> mine are pink ?
[12:23] <Randomskk> animal ones
[12:23] <UpuWork> wait till our next Pi flight
[12:23] <daveake> eggs
[12:23] <daveake> pink eggs
[12:23] <nick_> eroomde: launch my soon to exist detector...
[12:24] <Randomskk> UpuWork: baking it into a pie? :P
[12:24] <eroomde> nick_: ok
[12:24] <nick_> :D
[12:24] <eroomde> well, still boxes even if some of them are different shapes
[12:24] <daveake> Randomskk We tested and proved the "baking" bit last time :)
[12:25] <Randomskk> hah
[12:25] <Randomskk> yes send the pie up raw
[12:25] <Randomskk> be cooked through by the time it lands
[12:25] <kokey> actually just a decent wide angle lens would make a big difference for many of the photos
[12:25] <eroomde> and all the chat goes full circle. amusing to see on the mailist people going 'hmm... what if instead of chdk we could somehow directly control the cmaera to turn it on and off?'
[12:25] <daveake> or ... Bacon Butties in Spaaace
[12:26] <Randomskk> eroomde: heh.
[12:26] <eroomde> we flew a bottle of porn on nova 4
[12:26] <eroomde> (space port - har)
[12:26] <eroomde> port!!!
[12:26] <Randomskk> bottle of porn eh
[12:26] <eroomde> port!
[12:26] <eroomde> i meant port
[12:26] <daveake> You can bottle porn????
[12:26] <kokey> ew
[12:26] <daveake> lol
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[12:26] <Randomskk> did you enjoy the "port" afterwards then
[12:26] <Randomskk> the space "port"
[12:27] <kokey> I got one of those fake battery ac adapters for my canon ixus
[12:27] <daveake> Interesting vintage
[12:27] <eroomde> this has ruined the sotry now
[12:27] <Randomskk> yes
[12:27] <eroomde> story*
[12:27] <kokey> should be pretty simple to use an external source with a switch to decide when to boot it
[12:28] <eroomde> well anyway we did a double blind taste test between the ground control port and the space port and 6 out of 7 thought the space port tasted better
[12:28] <daveake> kokey I made a fake battery, using a battery :)
[12:28] <daveake> Saved money as I had a deadish battery sat around
[12:28] <kokey> daveake: too bad people don't put their old batteries up on ebay for sale
[12:28] <[1]Hix> hi guys
[12:28] <Randomskk> eroomde: perhaps cusf should start a side-business.
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[12:28] <eroomde> Randomskk: yes i think so
[12:29] <eroomde> send some space port england to space port america
[12:29] <[1]Hix> looking at the documentation for CUSF Weasel project
[12:29] <daveake> kokey http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=66
[12:29] <Randomskk> it has documentation? sweet
[12:29] <jgrahamc> It amuses me how people on the mailing list often come up with very complicated ideas like "I'll dismantle the camera, control all its functions using a microcontroller, detect the right altitude and only start taking pictures at 10,000m to save battery life"
[12:29] <[1]Hix> so I can start programming a tracker
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[12:29] <eroomde> jgrahamc: yes, solving a problem that isn;t a problem
[12:29] <[1]Hix> Randomskk, http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=weasel_code
[12:29] <eroomde> isn't*
[12:29] <Martian_Lander> hello
[12:29] <eroomde> no
[12:29] Nick change: Martian_Lander -> Lunar_Lander
[12:29] <jgrahamc> Drives me nuts.
[12:29] <daveake> kokey I never flew it - opted for an A series instead
[12:29] <[1]Hix> but is refers to NewSoftSerial
[12:30] Nick change: Lunar_Lander -> Lunar_Lander_
[12:30] <eroomde> jgrahamc: a lot of the mailing list drives me nuts
[12:30] <[1]Hix> but this has been replaced with SoftwareSerial
[12:30] <eroomde> i think one just gets used to it
[12:30] <Randomskk> [1]Hix: should be easy enough to make the requried changes
[12:30] <Randomskk> eroomde: I'm in favour of stronger moderation
[12:30] <jgrahamc> You've got enough problems making the damn thing work in the first place. Just look at all the failures across HAB flights from stupid stuff like crossing the Prime Meridian.
[12:30] <Randomskk> there's a thing
[12:30] <Randomskk> uhm
[12:30] <[1]Hix> :| if you've got a clue what you're doing
[12:30] <eroomde> Randomskk: i don;t know
[12:31] <eroomde> i think a lot of the problem is that the whole hobby never gets out of first gear
[12:31] <eroomde> it's just endless level 1 questions
[12:31] <eroomde> and moderating that might not solve that problem
[12:31] <eroomde> vs just patiently pointing out to people what the answer is in the wiki or has been discussed hundreds of times before
[12:31] <kokey> I'm thinking of writing idiots guides as I go along
[12:31] <kokey> and publish all my code
[12:31] <eroomde> but i'm not really sure that's much of a solution either
[12:31] <Randomskk> http://lesswrong.com/lw/c1/wellkept_gardens_die_by_pacifism/
[12:32] <Darkside> don;t publish all your code kokey
[12:32] <Randomskk> though ^ isn't quite as applicable to a more directed discussion group
[12:32] <Darkside> it means people won't learn
[12:32] <Randomskk> and really one of the other problems is that the list is in theory also for announcing launches
[12:32] <Randomskk> rather than in depth discussions
[12:32] <Randomskk> but it gets used for that too
[12:32] <[1]Hix> a link to the search of the logs on the intro to the mailing list would probably help.
[12:32] <eroomde> yes i think the hobby is too big now for one list to do both
[12:33] <eroomde> and some people don;t want to do irc
[12:33] <[1]Hix> i only discovered the latest search link yesterday
[12:33] <Randomskk> yea
[12:33] <Randomskk> could do with two lists possibly.
[12:33] <Randomskk> but how to split it...
[12:33] <eroomde> so a separate rag chew and launch announcement list might be sensible, i think anyway
[12:33] <kokey> there's going to be a growing community of beginners
[12:33] <Darkside> yep
[12:33] <jonsowman> i agree with the two lists thing
[12:33] <daveake> I think so. One for launch announcements and on-topic replies thereto
[12:33] <jonsowman> have been thinking about that for a while
[12:33] <kokey> so they need a place to ask each other the same questions over and over again
[12:33] <eroomde> kokey: yes indeed. I want to cater to them as best as possible, it's just frustrating when people just don't read the damn wiki
[12:33] <UpuWork> Personally I think a forum is the way to go
[12:33] <UpuWork> but I know I'm in the minority
[12:33] <Randomskk> hmm
[12:34] <Randomskk> I haven't considered it in depth
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[12:34] <jonsowman> UpuWork: it might be worth a try
[12:34] <[1]Hix> is there any good documentation fo for the switch from NewSoftSerial to SoftwareSerial?
[12:34] <jonsowman> if it fails, nothing lost
[12:34] <kokey> you need level 2 people to support level 1 people
[12:34] <Lunar_Lander_> hello Darkside
[12:34] <Randomskk> [1]Hix: try just replacing the words
[12:34] <UpuWork> not much to it Hix
[12:34] <UpuWork> See code sample : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[12:34] <jonsowman> i think it's getting to the "we really need to do something about this" stage
[12:34] <eroomde> kokey: indeed, but they get tired too
[12:35] <daveake> [1]Hix Take a loog at http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/serial
[12:35] <daveake> You only need Serial.begin and the available/read/write functions
[12:35] <Randomskk> jonsowman: one problem is that right now the main list is called 'UKHAS' and has a bunch of subscribers, many of whom are there for launch announcements
[12:35] <Randomskk> if we make a new list for launch announcements, a lot of people might not transition
[12:35] <Randomskk> if we make a new list for discussions, a lot of people will find the current group first and try to discuss there
[12:35] <eroomde> no i would make the transition to 'ukhas-hobby-chat
[12:35] <Randomskk> we could rename the group and set it to moderated
[12:36] <[1]Hix> cheers for the links UpuWork and daveake
[12:36] <Randomskk> only allow launch announcement/discussion
[12:36] <Randomskk> and make a new group for technical/discussion
[12:36] <eroomde> moderate heavily any non launch announcements on the ukhas list
[12:36] <eroomde> direct them to ukhas-chat
[12:36] <Randomskk> eroomde: but do we also rename it ukhas-launch-announcement?
[12:36] <eroomde> only if it doesn't break subscribers
[12:36] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes i see the issue
[12:36] <jonsowman> ideally i think we want "ukhas" for discussions and "ukhas-announce" for announcements perhaps
[12:37] <Randomskk> yea...
[12:37] <Randomskk> though a forum is an interesting idea too
[12:37] <jonsowman> maybe transition everyone on the current "ukhas" to "-announce"
[12:37] <Randomskk> I'm not sure where I stand on forum v mailing list v wiki
[12:37] <daveake> I think so. Do a BIG LOUD announcement to rell people about the new anouncement list.
[12:37] <eroomde> i agree with that nomencalture, but not massively bothered either way. the key is to preserve the current ukhas list members onto ukhas-announce
[12:37] <Randomskk> I think we can rename current ukhas
[12:37] <eroomde> i disagree about forum too i'm afriad
[12:37] <Randomskk> to ukhas-announce
[12:37] <Randomskk> and then make a new group
[12:37] <Randomskk> ukhas
[12:37] <eroomde> mailing lists give you nice threaded conversations
[12:37] <[1]Hix> didn't realise you had a wiki UpuWork
[12:37] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes, that gives the same result
[12:38] <Randomskk> jonsowman: crucially that preserves members
[12:38] <Randomskk> transitioning everyone manually is otherwise quite a pain.
[12:38] <eroomde> and it will be in the same folder structure as ukhas-announce and all the other mailing lsists i'm on
[12:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes
[12:38] <Randomskk> I think the argument for forums is that they are much easier to read through past discussions
[12:38] <Randomskk> whereas no one goes through mailing list archives, what a faff
[12:38] <Randomskk> however we have the wiki
[12:39] <jonsowman> personally i think definitely move to two lists, and perhaps also try a new forum at the same time
[12:39] <jonsowman> i don't think there's a downside to trying the forum. worst case: nobody uses it and we shut it down
[12:39] <Randomskk> I don't think we should have a forum and a wiki and a mailing list all concurrent
[12:39] <eroomde> i'm not sure managing 2 at once will help anyone?
[12:39] <Randomskk> worst case we fragment the discussion and community
[12:39] <Randomskk> and end up with two partially-active araes
[12:39] <jonsowman> hmm
[12:39] <eroomde> exactly
[12:39] <jonsowman> yes true
[12:39] <jgrahamc> I think the larger question is... how to you keep people who are clueless from taking up your/our time?
[12:40] <Randomskk> moderation
[12:40] <eroomde> if there could be a big MAILING LIST SEARCH:______________ on the iki, that might encourage people too
[12:40] <Randomskk> see my above link about well kept gardens
[12:40] <eroomde> to make it easier to search the hisotry
[12:40] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: well, perhaps more "how can we get beginners to help themselves more easily"
[12:40] <Randomskk> eroomde: I think a link to wiki search
[12:40] <eroomde> yes and that
[12:40] <Randomskk> I seriously think moderation
[12:40] <eroomde> jgrahamc: I'm not sure you can really
[12:40] <Randomskk> if someone posts an question to the discussion list which is succintly and entirely answered by the wiki
[12:40] <Randomskk> then don't allow the message to be posted and send them a link to the wiki
[12:40] <Randomskk> or even the right wiki page
[12:40] <jonsowman> RTFW
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander_> Darkside: I got a short question on the SAFT batteries once again
[12:41] <Randomskk> if they want to make a new post discussing some further element in detail
[12:41] <[1]Hix> Randomskk, there's a lot of information there, but some info is pretty well hidden
[12:41] <eroomde> maybe let it rhough but locked
[12:41] <Randomskk> then that's fine
[12:41] <eroomde> as an example to others :)
[12:41] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander_: don't ask to ask, just ask
[12:41] <Randomskk> eroomde: that still spams things up a bit, but you might be right
[12:41] <jgrahamc> I think that beginners guides are actually a good idea. What you want is a guide that gets people started without giving them copy and paste solutions.
[12:41] <UpuWork> We could do with reorganising the wiki
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander_> Darkside: could one single SAFT cell be used to power a hot-wire cutdown?
[12:41] <Darkside> no
[12:41] <UpuWork> it exists jgrahamc
[12:41] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: yes, and a lot of that is already on the wiki
[12:41] <Darkside> they can't supply enough current
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander_> OK
[12:41] <UpuWork> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[12:41] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander_: just use lithium AAs
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[12:41] <eroomde> jgrahamc: It's a tough problem. It is astounding easy to do a hab now compared to 5 years ago, there is vastly more information out there, you can more or less follow any one of several step-by-step guides
[12:41] <Darkside> much better option
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander_> 2 or 3?
[12:42] <eroomde> and yet the SNR of the questions has only dropped
[12:42] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander_: depends on the length of the nichrome wire
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander_> OK, of course
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[12:42] <Randomskk> I really think more moderation can lead to better questions and discussions and newcomers either asking better questions or helpign themselves
[12:42] <Darkside> i run mine off 2, with about 2cm of nichrome
[12:42] <Randomskk> (and really recommend reading that link about well kept gardens ^^)
[12:42] <Darkside> though the way i'm doing it i'm making use of the batteries internal ESR for current limiting
[12:42] <Darkside> which, while it works, isn't an ideal solution
[12:43] <jonsowman> Randomskk: so you think 2 mailing lists and more moderation on both?
[12:43] <jonsowman> s/more/better/ perhaps
[12:43] <Randomskk> jonsowman: yes.
[12:43] <Darkside> ideally you'd use som ekind of controlled current source to drive it, but that does add complexity
[12:43] <UpuWork> Forum.. :)
[12:43] <Randomskk> well not more or better
[12:43] <Randomskk> moderation
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander_> Darkside: yeah
[12:43] <Randomskk> as in, new threads require moderation
[12:43] <jonsowman> sounds sensible
[12:43] <Randomskk> perhaps say replies from existing members do not
[12:43] <jonsowman> and maybe be less heavy handed with the "always allow" button
[12:43] <Darkside> ok lunchtime
[12:43] <Randomskk> or possibly even allow some/most members to create new threads
[12:43] <UpuWork> welcome to our timezone :)
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander_> the problem is that I saw a construction on the sparkfun site which had the nichrome like wound around two normal wires which ran to the power supply
[12:44] <Randomskk> but crucially, moderate all new threads by new members
[12:44] <Lunar_Lander_> how will the normal wires influence the resistance etc.
[12:44] <jonsowman> yes
[12:44] <Randomskk> and moderate every new thread on the announce list
[12:44] <eroomde> yes I agree with that
[12:44] <eroomde> those 2
[12:44] <jonsowman> me too
[12:44] <Randomskk> with a view to shutting down discussion on the announce list when it drifts beyond announcement and results etc
[12:44] <Randomskk> I think people posting a follow up to a launch announce saying "here's what happened / here's the video / whatever" is fine
[12:44] <Randomskk> and some "that was a cool launch" or "your frequency drifted a lot", fine
[12:44] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: it's easy. normal copper wire has a resistence of 19/[cross-sectional-area-in-mm^2] ohms per km
[12:44] <jonsowman> perhaps defer the thread to the discussion list if it drifts offtopic
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[12:45] <Randomskk> jonsowman: yea.
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander_> it just is like resistors in series?
[12:45] <jonsowman> unless it's pointless of course, in which case close it
[12:45] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: it's just like resistors in series
[12:45] <daveake> Lunar_Lander: nichrome/ batteries: "how long a wire" depends on the wire resistance and the battery voltage. I suggest you try a length of say 40mm, then if it gets red hot use a longer piece (more resistance --> less current --> less power), or if it doesn't melt the nylon try a shorter length.
[12:45] <eroomde> because they are resistors
[12:45] <eroomde> and they are in series
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander_> OK
[12:46] <DrLuke> upu,upuwork: the NTX2 arrived today, slick stamp!
[12:46] <UpuWork> finally !
[12:46] <Randomskk> I also think we'd need to sort out more moderators and possibly something of a moderation policy to refer to.
[12:46] <Randomskk> I wish google groups had a better moderation log, though.
[12:46] <Randomskk> s/better//
[12:47] <jonsowman> yes
[12:47] <jonsowman> it could really do with that
[12:47] <Randomskk> oh well. I don't think it's worth swapping to mailman etc to get that.
[12:47] <jonsowman> moderation policy is easily done
[12:47] <jonsowman> oh god mailman
[12:47] <daveake> Randomskk Re replies to launch announcements - quite agree. Sometimes the discussions do go off at a tangent - happened to one of my launches recently.
[12:47] <jonsowman> please no
[12:48] <Randomskk> I think if we have a reasonable moderation policy we can have more moderation without people feeling personally picked on, either.
[12:48] <jonsowman> agreed
[12:48] <jonsowman> the moderation rules need to be clear and easily available if they're going to exist
[12:48] <eroomde> clear and transparent is easier
[12:49] <eroomde> rules: 1) if you are oliver de peyer, you're f*cked
[12:49] <Randomskk> having clear and transparent rules also means it's easier to have more moderators who are reasonably consistent, but without a moderation log it's hard to check.
[12:49] <jonsowman> mm
[12:50] <Randomskk> and it's also hard to show new moderators examples and so forth
[12:50] <Randomskk> sigh.
[12:50] <DrLuke> upuwork, nice packaging, definitely count me in as a happy customer =)
[12:50] <eroomde> How much moderation does there need to be atm? other than spam, madness, and oliver de phd?
[12:50] <UpuWork> thanks DrLuke :)
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander_> eroomde: why is that
[12:50] <UpuWork> new boxes :)
[12:50] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: why is what?
[12:51] <Randomskk> eroomde: at the moment as in how much is there now, or how much do we need?
[12:51] <eroomde> both
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander_> the Oliver comment
[12:51] <eroomde> write on alternate lines
[12:52] <Randomskk> at the moment: there are not-many (four) moderators, and most of the messages to the list go through, but when topics go seriously out of hand we try and step in, and things like meta-messages and off topic stuff gets stopped
[12:52] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: he never flies any balloons but does consistantly spam the list on a range of matters from marginallt on topic to completely not on topic
[12:52] <Randomskk> OdP's acceptance rate is pretty poor.
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander_> oh
[12:52] <Randomskk> I think we need a little more to enforce keeping the announce list for announcements and the discussion list for stuff not covered clearly by the wiki.
[12:53] <Randomskk> at the moment we can't fairly have much more moderation as we don't have one group for announce and one for discussion, and we also don't have any written policies
[12:53] <eroomde> another self moderation technique which could be employed more strongly is something like 'YOU WILL BE HUMILIATED AND HOUTED AT IT YOU ASK A QUESTION THAT IS COMPLETELY SQUARELY COVERED BY THE WIKI. THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO NOT READ THE WIKI FIRST BEFORE ASKING OTHERS TO GIVE THEIR TIME ANSWERING'
[12:53] <Randomskk> so any moderation is personal judgement (see again that article I posted)
[12:54] <eroomde> like mike bessant saying 'i can't find any gps receivers that will work at altitude' the other day
[12:54] <Randomskk> eroomde: humiliating and shouting at new members isn't productive
[12:54] <Randomskk> which leads to situations like recently
[12:54] <eroomde> Randomskk: exaggerting obviously
[12:54] <Randomskk> if that's exaggeration then what are you proposing?
[12:55] <Randomskk> so someone is gonig further and further both off-topic and uncivil
[12:55] <Randomskk> they get moderated
[12:55] <Randomskk> the response is to take it as a personal affront and leave the list
[12:56] <Randomskk> the situation doesn't really need to happen to start with
[12:56] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[12:56] <eroomde> there is no caveat there saying 'Please respect the effort others have put into this wiki by checking that it doesn't already answer a question you might want to send to the list'
[12:56] <jonsowman> This article is a stub. Please help UKHAS by expanding this article.
[12:57] <eroomde> that way at least people are forwarned if their message gets rejected
[12:57] <Randomskk> it's possible to set a welcome message on the group
[12:57] <Randomskk> and a message sent on subscription
[12:57] <eroomde> yes that should be done in addition
[12:57] <Randomskk> it's possible to moderate new member requests
[12:57] <Randomskk> etc etc
[12:57] <jonsowman> at the moment do we permit non-members posting to the group?
[12:57] <Randomskk> can't remember. think so.
[12:58] <jonsowman> that should be changed IMO
[12:58] <jonsowman> in which case we can set a welcome message, and then people posting to the list are forced to read it
[12:59] <Randomskk> should put up instructions on how to join the group if you don't have a google account if we do that.
[12:59] <Lunar_Lander_> UpuWork: what is a HABAmp?
[12:59] <eroomde> ok so. 2nd list, new members get their first post moderated, welcome message emphasising Dont Be Lazy, i will edit the wiki now just to add a note about reading wiki first before messaging the list
[12:59] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: read the email in the list
[12:59] <eroomde> he links to it
[12:59] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes of course
[13:00] <Randomskk> eroomde: I think possibly most people have new threads moderated
[13:00] <Randomskk> but, details.
[13:00] <eroomde> well fine, whichever
[13:00] <Randomskk> so, names
[13:00] <Randomskk> ukhas-announce and ukhas?
[13:01] <jonsowman> suits me
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander_> so HABAmp can be used as a receiver?
[13:02] <Upu> no Lunar it sits infront of a receiver
[13:02] <daveake> No, it's an AMPlifier
[13:02] <Upu> filters and amplifies the signal
[13:02] <daveake> Aerial --> HABAmp --> receiver
[13:02] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[13:02] <eroomde> in pleasingly passive agressive bold
[13:03] <Randomskk> cool.
[13:03] <Upu> rawr
[13:03] <jonsowman> nicely done eroomde
[13:03] <jonsowman> the bold is good
[13:03] <UpuWork> shame no one will read it
[13:03] <Randomskk> do we want to do things now or pontificate on them for a bit first?
[13:03] <Randomskk> UpuWork: indeed.
[13:04] <eroomde> UpuWork: yes indeed
[13:04] <eroomde> but we can but try
[13:04] <Randomskk> but we can set a welcome message on the group itself
[13:04] <jonsowman> Randomskk: i think just do it
[13:04] <jonsowman> otherwise it'll never get done
[13:04] <Randomskk> really?
[13:04] <Randomskk> I mean I have the 'rename' page open right here and all that
[13:04] <Randomskk> but, well
[13:04] <Randomskk> working out what we want to do and writing some outline moderation policies first
[13:04] <jonsowman> we could email the list and ask for comments... oh wait
[13:04] <Randomskk> then an announcement email explaining
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
[13:06] <jgrahamc> How about if you want to sign up for the mailing list and be able to post you have to solve a puzzle involving series and parallel resistors to prove that you either know something or are willing to make an effort?
[13:06] Nick change: saibot_work -> Saibot
[13:06] <Randomskk> jgrahamc: hehe :D
[13:07] <eroomde> I won't name names, not that it's embaraasing, but there are a couple of people in ukhas that I have taught what a potential divider is, that are excellent habbers
[13:07] <Randomskk> groups does allow a free text field that people fill out before they are allowed to join
[13:07] <eroomde> and so i wouldn't want to loose them
[13:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] ATMega Vcc Monitoring"
[13:07] <Randomskk> but yea, what ed said
[13:07] <Randomskk> there's a range of potential skills
[13:08] <jonsowman> i see what you did there
[13:08] <eroomde> nice
[13:08] <jgrahamc> I agree, it was a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion.
[13:08] <Randomskk> :D
[13:08] <Upu> I know what a potential dividor is it separates the postive electrons from the negative ones yay
[13:08] <jgrahamc> I figured 'potential' meant that it might do it.
[13:08] <eroomde> but yes, if there was some kind of metric that would give a simple 'are you going to drive people to distraction' score, that would be worth doing
[13:09] <Upu> Was I one of the names eroomde ? I think I might have been
[13:09] <eroomde> UpuWork: no
[13:09] <Randomskk> eroomde: I think that's readily determined from their initial post, to be honest
[13:09] <eroomde> i didn;t teach u anything :)
[13:09] <Upu> lol
[13:09] <Randomskk> they might want to join in order to receive emails
[13:09] <Upu> thats not true
[13:09] <Randomskk> I don't see any reason to put a barrier on people joining
[13:09] <Randomskk> it's posting that we're concerned about
[13:09] <Randomskk> and that's readily handled by moderating the posts
[13:09] <eroomde> yes there should be no mechanism to discourage lurking
[13:10] <daveake> I agree, but if you did have a test, how about ...
[13:10] <daveake> Please tick which of these applies to you
[13:10] <daveake> [ ] I want to build my own tracker with minimal help from others
[13:10] <daveake> [ ] Plz link me to a complete design wiv source code
[13:10] <eroomde> that's A Good Thing i think
[13:10] <jonsowman> agreed, people should be able to lurk
[13:10] <Randomskk> daveake: some people might legitimately not want to build their own tracker but still have interesting or useful ideas to contribute
[13:10] <Randomskk> though admittedly not many examples come to mind
[13:10] <daveake> :)
[13:10] <jonsowman> but i don't think a welcome message saying "_if_ you post, please read the wiki first etc etc" is a problem for all members
[13:10] <Upu> Yup spray painting Southern England for example
[13:10] <Randomskk> daveake: I could just check if the referrer tag is your blog
[13:11] <daveake> Wasn't entitely serious you know :)
[13:11] <jonsowman> Upu: totally worthwhile
[13:11] <daveake> lol
[13:11] <jonsowman> lol Randomskk
[13:11] <jonsowman> :D
[13:11] <UpuWork> lol
[13:11] <daveake> Yes I realise I'm to blame :D
[13:11] <DrLuke> hah
[13:11] <UpuWork> perfect Randomskk :)
[13:11] <fsphil> muhaha
[13:12] <jonsowman> to be fair, daveake spends a fair amount of time helping people on here
[13:12] <Randomskk> I definitely wasn't being serious :P
[13:12] <DrLuke> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3vkjvyKNp1r6s9m2.jpg
[13:12] <jgrahamc> Not wanting to build your own tracker is dangerously close to "I bort an SMS tracker from ebay and threw it in a ice cream container attached to a balloon. LOL."
[13:12] <Randomskk> jgrahamc: very true
[13:12] <eroomde> I wouldn't want to discourage repetition too much, as it's not stack overflow where there is one canonical thread for x or y. but rather just avoid 'what gps units work above 18km I cannot find any' or 'do i need a radio to track a balloon?'
[13:12] <Randomskk> in my imagined reality there's a university researcher with a Real Scienec payload they would like to send up
[13:12] <Randomskk> but they don't have the budget to build a tracker
[13:13] <Randomskk> and would like to collaborate
[13:13] <UpuWork> or a school
[13:13] <Randomskk> better yet if they spell Science correctly
[13:13] <Randomskk> indeed
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[13:13] <eroomde> yes, i'm quite pro the space agency model - we provide the platform, you provide the instrument
[13:13] <jgrahamc> But wouldn't those people present themselves and ask for reasonable help?
[13:13] <eroomde> that's cool and interesting too
[13:13] <Randomskk> jgrahamc: exactly. but they're unlikely to say they're interested in building a tracker.
[13:13] <eroomde> but those people usually just find someone relevent to chat to anyway by virtue of not being a twottucks
[13:13] <UpuWork> sometimes jgrahamc but you can't expect a group of kids to make a tracker but you can use it to teach them about other stuff
[13:14] <UpuWork> young kids
[13:14] <UpuWork> A level should be able to do it
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander_> XD "Do I need a Radio to track a Balloon?"
[13:14] <eroomde> glass houses
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander_> Randomskk: I actually want to do science
[13:14] <UpuWork> In fact "JFS1" is currently teaching his A-Level class how to do it
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander_> :P
[13:15] <UpuWork> "Its important to me to take the time to make a breathtaking video, write an awe-inspiring blog post and of course, present to you the pièce de résistance to fascinate your imagination.
[13:15] <UpuWork> Some say all will be revealed this weekend, some say next weekend.
[13:15] <eroomde> oh jesus
[13:15] <UpuWork> sound like I need to get up at 5am again
[13:15] <eroomde> some have nothing to say, but that doesn't put them off
[13:15] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[13:15] <fsphil> lol
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander_> I am excited
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander_> about 12 minutes to the end of the cold test
[13:17] <eroomde> http://www.joshingtalk.com/2012/06/jtsub-a-meeting-with-trident-sensors.html
[13:17] <eroomde> "It quickly dawned on me that these guys at Trident had that special something I look for when communicating with people. "
[13:17] <eroomde> it makes my skin crawl
[13:17] <eroomde> he's about my age
[13:18] <eroomde> with seemingly no self awareness
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander_> yea and why is his blog hosted in the Caribbean?
[13:18] <jonsowman> i know what you mean about the skin crawling thing
[13:18] <daveake> Well he did say "I wasn’t nearly as half as intelligent as them"
[13:18] <daveake> So he has some self awareness
[13:18] <daveake> If not mathematically accurate
[13:18] <Randomskk> dunno that could be arrogance
[13:18] <jonsowman> shame about the grammar
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander_> yea and that Branson actually paid attention to him
[13:19] <eroomde> I think it was probably one of his PAs
[13:21] <eroomde> i had a very odd experience once giving a pitch to Ray O'Rourke, who is the chairman of Laing O'Rouke who do lots of contrustuction stuff like stadia and crossrail and infrastructure
[13:21] <eroomde> and he was surrounded by this posse of young blonda PAs
[13:21] <eroomde> and he never spoke
[13:21] <eroomde> t's like he was telepathic with the PAs
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander_> oh
[13:21] <eroomde> 'Mr O'rouke was wondering what you think about....'
[13:21] <jgrahamc> Sounds like a Bond villain
[13:21] <daveake> lol
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[13:21] <eroomde> 'Mt O'rouke was wondering if you could condense what you've learnt doing x to a single sentence'
[13:21] <nick_> What were you pitching?
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander_> so Mr O'rouke is like a millionaire himself?
[13:21] <daveake> "Ah, Mr Moore, I've been expecting you ..>"
[13:21] <eroomde> they all seemed to talk in sequence
[13:22] Action: kokey makes notes
[13:22] <eroomde> like he was controlling their minds
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> oh sorry
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> I thought Branson and O'rouke met
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> misunderstood you eroomde
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> anyways
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[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> have to head back to the lab
[13:22] <eroomde> and then at the end he said in a really parochially irish accent 'sounds like it'll be all business class and blow-jobs for you if it works hey?'
[13:22] <eroomde> and that was it
[13:22] <nick_> I'm bored, I want to head back to my lab
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander_> XD!
[13:22] <daveake> lol
[13:23] <kokey> well I am not a ballsy negotiator, perhaps a teams of blonde PAs doing the talking for me might be a good way to compensate for that
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[13:23] <eroomde> but yes, i think it might be a bit like john prescott
[13:23] <eroomde> supported by a posse
[13:23] <eroomde> he just gets defrosted and wheeled in to whatever meeting
[13:23] <eroomde> then put back in the box
[13:23] <eroomde> and i get a similar impression about richard branson. i can't imagine him particularly entering a tweet intoa blackberry
[13:24] <jgrahamc> I find Branson very, very annoying.
[13:24] <eroomde> kokey: yes I imagine that was the technique
[13:25] <UpuWork> gonzo are you about ?
[13:25] <jgrahamc> BTW After yesterday's excitement some crazy rover people in California want to sell me a rover. Only weighs 10kg and they wont tell me the price.
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[13:25] <eroomde> nick_: the engineering dept were trying to persuade him to give them loads and loads and loads and loads of money for some new construction engineering dept and new building
[13:25] <Randomskk> jgrahamc: they contacted you?
[13:25] <jgrahamc> Yes, Randomskk
[13:25] <Randomskk> wow, keen
[13:25] <eroomde> a couple of shiny student projects got wheeled infront of him to doff their caps and say how amazing the department was
[13:25] <jgrahamc> These guys: http://www.senseta.com
[13:25] <kokey> for a moment I was wondering why the americans were trying to sell you a british car
[13:26] <UpuWork> http://www.robotroom.com/BigTrak/BigTrak.jpg ?
[13:26] <kokey> or a model of one
[13:26] <jgrahamc> And they have open sourced the OS: https://github.com/maxkernel/
[13:27] <jgrahamc> "Low-power consumption, Industry standard x86-based mini-ITX form factor" !
[13:28] <nick_> Is it just me or do engineering departments seem to delight in building super ugly buildings?
[13:29] <eroomde> I dunno
[13:29] <eroomde> cam ones were ok
[13:29] <jgrahamc> If the engineering dept. in Oxford is anything to go by it's because they were showing off engineering skill and not beauty.
[13:29] <eroomde> this was the centre for advanced photonics and electronics
[13:29] <eroomde> http://www-cape.eng.cam.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cape_bd.jpg
[13:29] <Randomskk> cape is nice
[13:29] <Randomskk> shame about baker
[13:29] <Randomskk> well it's okay I guess
[13:29] <eroomde> well baker is oooold
[13:29] <Randomskk> not hideous
[13:29] <Randomskk> yea.
[13:29] <Randomskk> it is pretty old.
[13:29] <nick_> The Oxford one benefits a little from being next to the DWB
[13:30] <jgrahamc> DWB?
[13:31] <nick_> Denys Wilkinson Building
[13:31] <kokey> cape looks a bit like a building I'd expect in an office park in cambridge
[13:31] <nick_> The stupid looking physics building next door
[13:31] <nick_> (or "here" as I call it)
[13:31] <jgrahamc> Oh. They changed the name.
[13:32] <jgrahamc> That's the one with the giant Van de Graaff generator in it.
[13:33] <nick_> yes
[13:33] <jgrahamc> The Thom Building had one cool feature (apart from the fact that it is not fixed to the ground): it has a paternoster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster
[13:33] <nick_> Or at least a tower for it.
[13:33] <nick_> jgrahamc: where's that?
[13:33] <nick_> (I've only been into Thom once)
[13:34] <jgrahamc> When I was there (admittedly a _while_ ago) that was how you go around in the Thom building.
[13:35] <Laurenceb> is it full of cats?
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[13:41] <x-f> Darkside, found it - http://nearsys.com/arhab/flightdata/2006/e/
[13:42] <x-f> Darkside, their test chamber demo - http://youtu.be/KW5uyRueJ2o
[13:47] <[1]Hix> UpuWork, did you get any breakout boards done for the MC55 GSM/GPRS modules?
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[13:52] <UpuWork> hey Hix not had time but its on my list
[13:52] <UpuWork> I have those modules
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[13:55] <fsphil> gsm modules are too expensive
[13:55] <fsphil> compared to the price of a phone
[13:56] <eroomde> agreeified
[13:58] <Laurenceb> so use a phone
[13:58] <fsphil> ackward to interface with
[13:58] <Laurenceb> not really
[13:58] <fsphil> potentially unreliable
[13:58] <Laurenceb> old nokia or sony
[13:59] <Laurenceb> true - they can be glitchy on hab flights
[13:59] <daveake> It's the mechanical side - keeping the connector connected - that worries me more.
[13:59] <Randomskk> tape :p
[13:59] <BrainDamage> dismount the phone and extract the pcb
[13:59] <Laurenceb> i have had firmware issues
[13:59] <[1]Hix> I've got a load of MC-55 modules, got them for £15 if anyone wants one.
[13:59] <BrainDamage> then solder on the connector
[13:59] <Laurenceb> what BrainDamage said
[13:59] <[1]Hix> I was going to put hot glue on the hirose connector if i used one
[14:00] <daveake> Well I already have a module from a previous project, but yes
[14:00] <Laurenceb> some gsm phones have issues seeing too many masts
[14:00] <Laurenceb> but its always worked for me
[14:00] <Laurenceb> to be really hardcore you could have an stm32f4 with usb host
[14:01] <Laurenceb> theres drivers for usb ACM host
[14:01] <eroomde> [1]Hix: glue seeps into contacts on mechanical connectors
[14:01] <eroomde> true for all x
[14:01] <eroomde> be wary
[14:01] <[1]Hix> ok
[14:01] <Laurenceb> old nokias have factory test bads you can use
[14:01] <Laurenceb> *pads
[14:01] <eroomde> that what i used
[14:01] <eroomde> this one time
[14:01] <eroomde> at band camp
[14:02] <Laurenceb> lolwhat
[14:02] <eroomde> but then we did badger 1 which had a fancy pants telit module and then we stopped bothering with gsm
[14:02] <eroomde> that is the glorious hisotry of gsm at CUSF
[14:02] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:02] <eroomde> graphically: -/\___
[14:03] <Laurenceb> stm32f4 usb host connected to a phone would be kind of cool to try
[14:03] <Laurenceb> but i canna be bothered
[14:03] <eroomde> usb seems to be more hassle than it's worth, almost always
[14:03] <Laurenceb> also you can nick 3v3 from most phones
[14:04] <Randomskk> usb is quite faffy
[14:04] <Laurenceb> its nice if you are in the position to nick prewritten drivers
[14:04] <Laurenceb> as is the case for much stm32 stuff
[14:04] <Randomskk> it's quite nice if you're an end user
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[14:29] <BrainDamage> this might be of interest for some here: http://dx.com/p/cn-06-gps-receiver-super-u-blox-gps-module-w-active-ceramic-antenna-mwc-149340
[14:30] <daveake> Hmmm, that's cheap
[14:30] DrLuke (~Im@p4FCE457E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:31] <DrLuke> yay, receiving the NTX2 with gnuradio went succesful :)
[14:31] <kokey> what's the battery for on the ublox?
[14:32] <kokey> DrLuke: cool, I'm going to try that with my rfm22b tomorrow night
[14:32] <kokey> DrLuke: gnuradio and an rtlsdr?
[14:32] <DrLuke> yes
[14:32] <DrLuke> rfm22b might be difficult, as it uses a protocol
[14:32] <DrLuke> (as far as I know)
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[14:32] <Randomskk> it doesn't have to.
[14:33] <eroomde> kokey: backup battery
[14:33] <eroomde> keep the ram live
[14:33] <kokey> cool, I got two dongles, gnuradio working on OSX with rtlsdr working
[14:33] <eroomde> which means it doesn;t have to redownload all of the ephemeris gps data every power cycle
[14:33] <DrLuke> ah
[14:33] <eroomde> that's the bit that can make cold starts take many minutes
[14:33] <kokey> eroomde: ah, that's handy
[14:33] <eroomde> as it's just 50 baud data
[14:34] <kokey> I like the packaging of that ublox module, very nice
[14:34] <eroomde> i'd want more grounding underneath the patch antenna
[14:34] <daveake> Except that the battery appears to be held on by will power
[14:34] <eroomde> but i'm sure it'll work regardless
[14:35] <kokey> I'm sure Will_power has a day job to tend to tho
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[14:35] <BrainDamage> battery holder won't resist shocks, but you can always solder wires to the board and use a more decent socket
[14:35] <daveake> He's a cell-out
[14:35] <eroomde> ouch
[14:35] <DrLuke> I just directly soldered wires to a coin cell
[14:36] <kokey> how long does one of those big party balloons stay up for?
[14:36] <BrainDamage> DrLuke: I hope you had safety glasses
[14:36] <kokey> I'm thinking of doing a test launch with that
[14:36] <eroomde> my housemate put some ordinary rubber ballons up for my 25th
[14:36] <eroomde> on feb 18th
[14:36] <eroomde> they're still inflated
[14:36] <DrLuke> braindamage: just do it really quickly and you're fine
[14:36] <eroomde> a bit less so, but still balloon shape and not wrinkly
[14:36] <BrainDamage> eyes are non replaceable, battery it is
[14:37] <BrainDamage> "really quickly" is a bit arbitrary :/
[14:37] <eroomde> you'll never reach the engineering skill level of geordie laforge without a bit of eye risking
[14:37] <DrLuke> 3 seconds
[14:37] <kokey> eroomde: that's amazing, not helium tho?
[14:38] <eroomde> don't think so
[14:38] <eroomde> just lufte
[14:38] <kokey> the foils seem to go for hours, I want something less reliable for a short test flight
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[14:43] <eroomde> a small latex
[14:43] <eroomde> 250g one from ebay
[14:44] <kokey> ah true, the party balloon might last too well
[14:45] <kokey> I wonder if the AOR AR 900 is any good as a receiver on the road
[14:47] <daveake> 70cm with SSB?
[14:48] SamSilver (c5572005@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.87.32.5) joined #highaltitude.
[14:49] <kokey> 108-174 / 220-380 / 406-470 / 830-950 MHz (Europe).... oh but only AM/FM
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[14:49] <Randomskk> AM probably also means SSB
[14:51] <daveake> Nah; found the manual. No SSB mentioned
[14:51] <Randomskk> :(
[14:51] <kokey> AOR AR-8200 MK2 looks nice
[14:51] <kokey> anything else popular apart from AOR?
[14:51] <gonzo_> upuwork - you called?
[14:52] <Darkside> Icom IC-R10 is a nice handheld receiver
[14:52] <daveake> I have a Yupiteru MVT7200 which is fine. Not as nicely built as the AR8000
[14:52] <Darkside> yep, yupi's are good too
[14:52] <Darkside> i had a MVT7100 for a while, not as sensitive as the R10 though
[14:53] <Darkside> and not as good for direction finding stuff
[14:53] <Darkside> it didn't have a continuous variable attenuator, which is useful when getting close to the target
[14:53] <daveake> How much is the R10 though?
[14:53] <Darkside> well, you can't buy them from icom anymore
[14:54] <Darkside> but second hand they're about 150GBP i think
[14:54] <daveake> OK not so bad
[14:54] <Darkside> sometimes cheaper
[14:54] <Darkside> they're not being manufactured anymore, which is a bit sad
[14:54] <Darkside> its like icom designed a handheld specifically for direction finsing
[14:54] <Darkside> there really isn't anything that works as well for it
[14:54] <daveake> :)
[14:54] <daveake> :(
[14:55] <kokey> looks like I can get the MVT7100 for under £100
[14:56] <Darkside> yeah tbh i wouldn't reccomend them
[14:56] <Darkside> you can do better
[14:56] <daveake> Sorry it's the 7100 I have, bnot 7200
[14:56] <kokey> can't find any IC-R10, can only find R5 and R20
[14:57] <Darkside> dunno abotu the r5, r20 would ork but is expensive
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[14:57] <kokey> yeah, R20 is about double as much as an AR-8200 MK2
[14:59] <Darkside> yp
[14:59] <kokey> well, I can get an AOR AR8200 MK2 for £140.... but with broken SSB
[14:59] <daveake> Darkside How much attentuation do you find you need for DFing? Wouldn't be hard to make one.
[14:59] <Darkside> yeah thats not goign to help
[14:59] <Darkside> daveake: yeah, you can make an inline attenuator
[14:59] <Darkside> but its nice to have it as a knob on the radio
[14:59] <daveake> Sure, but as I don't have such a knob, I might make one.
[15:00] <daveake> Suppose a 50-ohm pot should do it :D
[15:00] <Darkside> ergh
[15:00] <Darkside> maybe
[15:00] <Darkside> not a nice way to do it
[15:00] <daveake> Hence the ":D"
[15:00] <Darkside> the proper way is to manually control the AGC in the radio
[15:01] <nigelvh> That's not a "proper" attenuator
[15:01] <nigelvh> But it will serve a similar function
[15:01] <nigelvh> I saw a design a while back for a small homebrew step attenuator to build into a little die-cast box.
[15:02] <gonzo_> the actuall atten will be odd due to the mismatch, but as long as it reduced the sensitivity, should work
[15:02] <nigelvh> Wouldn't be good at a gig, but would work reasonably elsewhere.
[15:02] <gonzo_> (using a pot)
[15:02] <daveake> That's what I was thinking of. Though I guess the AGC would level things out somewhat
[15:03] <kokey> I'll start out with a MVT7100 since they're well cheap
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[15:04] <kokey> certainly not going to run around fields with a laptop and a dvb dongle and makeshift antenna
[15:04] <daveake> I'm happy with mine. I preferred the AR8000 (nice to use) but that had an issue with 300 baud so I sold it
[15:04] <daveake> niceer*
[15:04] <daveake> nicer*
[15:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.fastecimaging.com/products/high-speed-cameras/handheld-cameras/ts3-100-s
[15:06] <daveake> Well I've bought 2 of those cheap ublox boards (but don't tell UpuWork). I'll report back when they arrive :)
[15:08] <DrLuke> I also bought one
[15:08] <DrLuke> but also don't tell him
[15:08] <daveake> It'll be our secret
[15:08] <DrLuke> which one did you buy, the one where the antenna is seperate?
[15:08] <DrLuke> with a short coax cable?
[15:09] <daveake> No, on the back of the PCB
[15:09] <daveake> Didn't notice any options :D
[15:09] <DrLuke> http://www.ebay.de/itm/251101600322?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[15:09] <DrLuke> that's the one
[15:10] <daveake> Ah OK
[15:10] <DrLuke> wasn't that cheap either
[15:11] <daveake> These were £34.58 for the pair. Though I paid on Amex which does it in USD, so I'll see if the conversion is better or worse
[15:12] <DrLuke> each or for both?
[15:12] <daveake> both
[15:12] <DrLuke> that's pretty cheap
[15:12] <daveake> yep
[15:12] <daveake> $52.80
[15:13] <DrLuke> I wish you brits would finally use euro
[15:13] <DrLuke> would make things so much easier for me :P
[15:13] <kokey> that's not going to happen any time soon
[15:13] <fsphil> I'd be happy with metric
[15:13] <fsphil> we're half way there
[15:14] <daveake> With the current state of the Euro, there'll be fewer countries using it not more
[15:14] <kokey> yeah metric would be very good tho
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[15:14] <DrLuke> oh well
[15:14] <DrLuke> can't have everything
[15:14] <kokey> got two trips to germany booked this year, so I'm looking forward to the weaker euro
[15:14] <daveake> fsphil I remember driving in Eire when the speed signs were in mph but the distance signs in km
[15:14] <fsphil> hah
[15:14] <DrLuke> are the ublox pins 5V compatible?
[15:14] <Laurenceb> http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=763&productname=
[15:15] Nick change: lindas_ -> lindas
[15:15] <fsphil> they're all metric down there now
[15:16] <daveake> DrLuke Doubt it. I use 3V3 processors anyway
[15:16] <kokey> when the UK goes metric people will realise the speed limit is only 112.654 km/h
[15:17] <DrLuke> but officer, I was going 112.643 km/h, I swear!
[15:18] <daveake> But office, my speed won spacenear.us was exactly 112kph :)
[15:18] <daveake> +r
[15:18] <daveake> -w
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[15:19] <Burninate> Euro needed to draw down its reputation fast
[15:19] <Burninate> not leave lingering uncertainty
[15:20] <DrLuke> damn, I really need to build myself a proper tabletop psu with 5V, 3.3V and 1.8V outputs
[15:20] <DrLuke> and negatives
[15:20] <Burninate> Iceland got it right, and the US got halfway
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[15:22] <Burninate> DrLuke: Unless you have absurd needs, it's easier to buy those
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[15:22] <DrLuke> Burninate: but it's more fun to make one ;)
[15:22] <DrLuke> one psu, to regulate them all
[15:23] <Burninate> The toroid for a linear regulated psu cost as much as an entire switchmode supply last time I messed with it
[15:24] <DrLuke> I have a couple of 24V transformers with a center tap lying around
[15:24] <Burninate> that'll do it
[15:24] <DrLuke> they should be able to give atleast 1 amp, more than I'll ever need
[15:24] <DrLuke> and when I need more, I'll still have like 6 more ;P
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[15:26] <daveake> Afternoon RocketBoy. Launch tomorrow?
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[15:26] <RocketBoy> Na - looks like Thursday now
[15:26] <Darkside> ok
[15:26] <daveake> OK ta.
[15:26] <Darkside> any idea what time RocketBoy ?
[15:26] <Darkside> i'm hoping to track from bath
[15:26] <fsphil> lazy
[15:26] <daveake> Im in Thursday too so should be tracking
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[15:27] <RocketBoy> cool - Well I suspect about lunchtime - but that could change
[15:27] <Darkside> ok
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[15:32] <RocketBoy> anyone know why my chase car is showing up about 20mins ahead of current time on spacenear.us ?
[15:32] <eroomde> relativistic effects i would say
[15:32] <jonsowman> yeah, stop speeding
[15:32] <Burninate> god-damn wormholes
[15:32] <eroomde> maybe you're using a neutrino 3g dongle
[15:32] <eroomde> and a detector designed by italians
[15:33] <BrainDamage> hey :p
[15:33] <eroomde> oh you're italian?
[15:33] <BrainDamage> yes
[15:33] <eroomde> SPLENDID :D
[15:33] <BrainDamage> >_>
[15:33] <eroomde> name says it all
[15:34] <BrainDamage> here there's a joke about british capability to appreciate foreign's work
[15:34] <RocketBoy> amusing if not useful answers
[15:34] <eroomde> go on
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[15:34] <daveake> What chase car s/w are you using?
[15:34] <BrainDamage> can't translate since it's based on a word's play unfortunately :/
[15:35] <Burninate> Hey, I wish I was Italian. The stereotype of your country figured out a way to work 30 hours a week, 200 days a year and have a reasonable standard of living.
[15:35] <daveake> What it *should* be doing is getting the GPS time as well as co-ords and uploading that
[15:35] <Burninate> I'm an unemployed American
[15:35] <eroomde> Burninate: yes that works until someone does the accounts
[15:36] <BrainDamage> 30 hours a week? there's no such thing here
[15:36] <RocketBoy> well the time is updating - its gust 20mins ahead
[15:36] <RocketBoy> its an old mac version of fl-digi
[15:36] <daveake> AFAIK Habitat just uses the time uploaded from the chase car program
[15:37] <RocketBoy> I didnt think the cahse car time was uploaded to the server
[15:37] <daveake> Just a sec I'll check mine
[15:37] <RocketBoy> it doesn't show time in the logs
[15:37] <Burninate> My country improved productivity by 100% and made it *harder* for the median person to live in the last few decades
[15:37] <BrainDamage> the real problems btw aren't as that inherent to the stereotype, there's widespread corruption, but it's not organized, it's not mafia, it's everyone who's independently an asshole
[15:38] <daveake> RocketBoy Well my chase car app does upload the time. There's a URL built like so:
[15:38] <daveake> URL := 'http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php' +
[15:38] <daveake> '?vehicle=' + Vehicle +
[15:38] <daveake> '&time=' + UTCTime +
[15:38] <eroomde> that's sort of the stereotype too. everything was fine until berlusconi won a majority on more than one occassion
[15:38] <daveake> + other parameters (position, speed, altitude, heading)
[15:38] <eroomde> then everyone said 'oh god they must have lost it'
[15:38] <Burninate> Doesn't he own, like, the press?
[15:38] <RocketBoy> humm - i'll check the code then
[15:39] <BrainDamage> the press and 6 out of 9 most important tv channels, and many other things
[15:39] <eroomde> well, most nations go through phases
[15:39] <eroomde> let's hope you're on the other side now
[15:39] <BrainDamage> and to get away with the interest conflict he passed them .. to his family
[15:40] <daveake> RocketBoy I just fired up my car app and that's showing the ocrrect time on spacenear
[15:40] <BrainDamage> in a way, the political scenario is changing now, but there's still a backwards current that I am afraid can still win
[15:40] <eroomde> BrainDamage: I do like atalians really. It's just i had to do a lot of work with ASI and Thales Alenia Space Italia
[15:40] <eroomde> which was probably the most horrendous professional (if that's the word) experience of my life
[15:41] <BrainDamage> oh I am the first to admit if I were to make a generalization, we're assholes
[15:41] <BrainDamage> I just don't like generalizations
[15:42] <BrainDamage> and I wish people reckognized the real problems of my country rather than the stereotypical ones
[15:42] <RocketBoy> cheers daveake
[15:42] <eroomde> i do statistical signal processing
[15:42] <eroomde> i have to work with maximum likelihoods
[15:42] <BrainDamage> if you want to diss it, at least do it for the correct reasons
[15:42] <eroomde> entropy minimising representations
[15:42] <Burninate> When you said "30 hour work week doesn't exist here" what did you mean?
[15:43] <BrainDamage> it's standard 40h, not 30
[15:43] <BrainDamage> 8h/day for 5 days a week
[15:43] <Burninate> that's the historical American standard as well
[15:44] <Burninate> although as of late in working-class jobs that has been replaced with two 15-25h/week jobs with unpredictable hours for the working class
[15:45] <Burninate> Statistics: "
[15:45] <Burninate> The average American works 25 hours a week; the average Frenchman 18; the average Italian a bit more than 16 and a half. Even the hardest-working Europeans--the British, who put in an average of 21 and half hours--are far more laid-back than their American cousins. "
[15:45] <BrainDamage> source?
[15:45] <Burninate> http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/steven-landsburg-labor_cx_sl_06work_0523landsburg.html
[15:46] <Randomskk> isn't that also because you guys have craptastic vacations
[15:46] <Burninate> only about the top half of the country income-wise gets any vacations
[15:47] <Burninate> *gets any official vacation-time
[15:47] <Burninate> and they get two weeks, often unpaid
[15:47] <eroomde> we have at least 4 paid legally
[15:47] <eroomde> i think
[15:48] <eroomde> (UK)
[15:48] <Burninate> also unions are almost dead here
[15:49] <BrainDamage> is this pratice still widespread in uk? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit
[15:50] <russss> yes
[15:50] <eroomde> i've never come across a domestic system that wasn't ring-main
[15:51] <Laurenceb> oh my god
[15:51] <Laurenceb> theres a girl coming to the conference
[15:52] <BrainDamage> have you asked her the birth certificate to make sure?
[15:52] <RocketBoy> she might be a lady
[15:53] <jgrahamc> if there's a woman coming to the conference, how about not making a big deal about it.
[15:53] <Burninate> A) I say we bake her a cake!
[15:53] <Burninate> B) Let's completely ignore her gender
[15:53] <Laurenceb> http://cdn.randomfunnypicture.com/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/i-know-htm-tshirt-how-to-meet-ladies.jpg
[15:54] <Burninate> C) I'm going to try and bring her home
[15:54] <Burninate> Can you videotape it so I can watch the three parties slug it out?
[15:55] <jgrahamc> Perhaps, let's act like adults.
[15:55] <Randomskk> so hey people remember what I said about strong moderation
[15:55] <Randomskk> in particular Laurenceb
[15:56] <Laurenceb> hey im the one laughing at the loser nerds
[15:56] <Randomskk> no
[15:56] <eroomde> glass houses again
[15:56] <Randomskk> you're the one pointing it out every single time a woman is mentioned in any context here
[15:57] <Laurenceb> cuz like most loser lands its 99.9% male
[15:57] <Randomskk> ever wondered why?
[15:57] <Randomskk> possibly because any time anyone uses a feminine name you're like "omg a girl"?
[15:57] <jgrahamc> Also, how is this a 'loser land'?
[15:57] <Burninate> D) If I pretend she's actually a hermaphrodite as some kind of internet stereotype, maybe I'll be able to hold down my boner long enough to interact
[15:57] <eroomde> I think enough now Lb
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[15:58] <Burninate> E) Avoid at all costs, stare from a distance
[15:58] <Randomskk> Burninate: maybe you could act like most adults and not get quite so excited at the mere concept of a woman coming to a conference?
[15:59] <Burninate> I'm not going to the conference, and I don't really care, I just get amused at the effect that isolation from the fairer sex has on otherwise social geeks
[15:59] <Randomskk> or at least, someone with a woman's first name?
[15:59] <RocketBoy> anyone know who the Crt group are?
[15:59] <Randomskk> Burninate: and in doing so perpetuating all of those stereotypes and making it even more uncomfortable for women?
[16:00] <eroomde> RocketBoy: are they attendees?
[16:00] <Burninate> "oh my god
[16:00] <Burninate> <Laurenceb> theres a girl coming to the conference
[16:00] <Burninate> <BrainDamage> have you asked her the birth certificate to make sure?"
[16:00] <RocketBoy> yeah - thats all the info I have other than the email
[16:00] <eroomde> They *might* be the Cranfield Rocket Team who we met at the big range launch in north scotland
[16:00] <Randomskk> Burninate: I know you didn't start it.
[16:00] <RocketBoy> that they are not responding to
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[16:01] <eroomde> are there any individual names involved?
[16:01] <RocketBoy> ta - I'll mooch around and see if they have web page
[16:01] <RocketBoy> no
[16:01] <Laurenceb> but once Randomskk starts ranting about JSON any sane person will leave
[16:02] <RocketBoy> just the paypal payment from the CRT group
[16:02] <jgrahamc> Is there a way in this web client to block a specific user so I don't have to see their comments?
[16:02] <eroomde> /ban Laurenceb outa do it
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[16:02] <eroomde> oughtta*
[16:02] <russss> jgrahamc: you should check out www.irccloud.com
[16:03] <jgrahamc> Thanks both of you
[16:03] <russss> I can send you an invite, it's nicer than the freenode web client
[16:03] <eroomde> my suggestion won;t work
[16:03] <eroomde> unless you're an op
[16:03] <jgrahamc> Bummer
[16:03] <russss> which nobody is
[16:03] <jgrahamc> Yes russss that would be great
[16:03] <russss> "/ignore username"
[16:03] <russss> is how you'd generally do it
[16:05] <Randomskk> russss: the ops just aren't opped all the time
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[16:05] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[16:05] <eroomde> tada
[16:05] <daveake> btw RocketBoy the "people who have paid" list suggests "Drop me a line at steve@btinternet.com if your name fails to appear". Correct email addy?
[16:05] <Randomskk> for instance.
[16:05] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[16:05] <eroomde> but i have never banned anyone from here
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[16:06] <jonsowman> i have done for connection issue reasons
[16:06] <eroomde> and I won't be banning laurenceb either because he's just being stupid temporarily, but is better than that generally
[16:06] <eroomde> perceived irony or otherwise
[16:06] <number10> RocketBoy: have you decided wednesday or thurs yet?
[16:06] <daveake> thurs
[16:06] <Laurenceb> im just in a bad mood
[16:06] <Laurenceb> but frankly no longer care
[16:06] <stilldavid_> jgrahamc: I liked your bit challenging the masses to land a rover from an HAB
[16:06] <RocketBoy> Its gonna be thursday
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[16:07] <jgrahamc> stilldavid_: it was mostly that I was tired of people going "tee hee hee those nasa dudes are so dumb my iphone is better that curiosity"
[16:07] <number10> ok - was going to take scanner into work
[16:07] <stilldavid_> totally understandable, and I have linked a couple people to it since
[16:07] <jgrahamc> And then i figured that rather than just being negative I'd get people thinking about just how hard it would be
[16:07] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[16:08] <stilldavid> jgrahamc: I was a judge for an undergrad program that tried to land a rover from at rocket that went to ~10k feet
[16:08] <eroomde> RocketBoy: have emailed a couple of the individuals who were cranfield rocket team to ask if it's them
[16:08] <stilldavid> it was... significantly more difficult than anyone had expected.
[16:08] <jgrahamc> And what happened stilldavid ?
[16:08] <RocketBoy> eroomde: cheers
[16:08] <Darkside> data over HF is probably a bit much :P
[16:09] <stilldavid> both rovers pretty much broke apart on impact, despite the cushioning, parachutes, self-righting systems, etc...
[16:09] <jgrahamc> 1/2 mv^2 strikes again
[16:09] <RocketBoy> daveake: yep steve@btinternet.com is one of me
[16:10] <daveake> cool
[16:10] <daveake> I assumed they'd all be steve.something@...
[16:10] <eroomde> stilldavid: any photos/videos of the event?
[16:10] <RocketBoy> I was one of the first btinternet trialists
[16:10] <daveake> :)
[16:11] <stilldavid> hmm. I can check, I didn't take too many, but there were certainly a lot of folks there with cameras.
[16:11] <stilldavid> two shakes.
[16:12] <eroomde> i'm going to sound like one of *those* people but i'm surprised it is that hard to land a rover without it breaking, assuming the chute actually deploys and so on, which is not something you can take for granted
[16:12] <eroomde> in the context of this comp rather than extraterrestrial landers
[16:13] <russss> jgrahamc: you should have an irccloud invite in your inbox now
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[16:14] <jgrahamc> Thanks russss
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[16:18] <eroomde> i can't find this rocket rover competition on google because my search terms get me completely sucked into curiosity orbit
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[16:21] <stilldavid> hah, one sec. it was with the CO space grant consortium
[16:21] <stilldavid> http://spacegrant.colorado.edu/
[16:22] <eroomde> fun
[16:22] <eroomde> thanks
[16:22] <stilldavid> here's a few of one of the failed rovers
[16:22] <stilldavid> http://imgur.com/a/xhVOV
[16:23] <stilldavid> couldn't find any from the second :\
[16:23] <jgrahamc> http://www.bigbluesaw.com/saw/big-blue-saw/customer-projects/robot-rover-from-unc.html
[16:23] <jgrahamc> ?
[16:23] <stilldavid> they were dropped from: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stilldavid/5992861700/
[16:23] <eroomde> ah right. so it looks like it didn;t deploy properly
[16:24] <stilldavid> ack, off to a meeting.
[16:24] <eroomde> 300lb rocket
[16:24] <eroomde> monstrous!
[16:24] <stilldavid> the next photo in the stream is cool, too :)
[16:24] <eroomde> golly
[16:25] <eroomde> i thought our 2 stage rocket was big
[16:25] <stilldavid> it was a ULA launch, a joint ball aerospace and lockheed project.
[16:25] <Burninate> are amateurs allowed ballistic trajectories?
[16:25] <cjbaird> It'd be funny if the tires expanded and became uselessly warped at 100,000ft
[16:25] <stilldavid> at any rate, back later this afternoon.
[16:25] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/martlet-1/
[16:25] <eroomde> there is a video on that page of the launch, including the noise we made when the second stage lit
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[16:25] <eroomde> not family friendly language apologies in advance
[16:25] <eroomde> he's from donegal, can't help it
[16:28] <eroomde> and this is just one of my favourite videos (you need sound) http://vimeo.com/41698743
[16:31] <eroomde> stilldavid's rocket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSVAMvYzU5k
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[16:39] <number10> any plans for three launch of three stage martlet-1 eroomde ?
[16:40] <number10> -three
[16:41] <eroomde> number10: not sure
[16:41] <eroomde> it's expensive
[16:41] <eroomde> up to cusf really
[16:41] <eroomde> and i have a slightly bigger fish on my plate now :)
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[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:42] <number10> yes I can imagine
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> the -75°C test went OK, all components besides the BMP085 worked afterwards
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> system was at that temperature for 24 h 2 min
[16:42] <daveake> You killed the BMP085?
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> it didn't respond, even when I put it on the breadboard and tried the Uno
[16:44] <daveake> What was the purpose of the test?
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> to see if the components still work after exposure and also if the system then can run off cold batteries
[16:45] <daveake> You realise that the tracker won't get to -75, nor for 24 hours?
[16:45] <jgrahamc> Stack Overflow's moderation interface: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/wp-content/uploads/fake-mod-tools2.png
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I told my professor as well but he thought it might be a good idea to take it to the extremes
[16:46] <eroomde> i quite like taunt user
[16:46] <eroomde> i'm good at that
[16:46] <eroomde> omg do u not know that deeeeeeer
[16:46] <eroomde> etc
[16:47] <BrainDamage> http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/images/horticulture/linedrawings/deer.gif
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[17:49] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: At last an update to the #HABE blog - http://t.co/9BRoDJrS #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/237969766231441408]
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[17:58] <HixPad> This evenings retarded question is what am I searching for when I want to the UBS commands from u-center (sic)
[17:59] <HixPad> To 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x00, 0x14, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xD0, 0x08, 0x00, 0x00 for example?
[18:00] <Upu> binary console
[18:00] <Upu> or packet one of the two
[18:00] <Upu> under view menu
[18:00] <HixPad> Ah cheers
[18:00] <HixPad> Gotcha
[18:01] <HixPad> Electronics I've picked up nicely. Coding, well let's just say I'm left handed and my coding seems left handed too ;)
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, cold test revealed something
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> four of the seven NTX2 pins broke off while handling
[18:02] <HixPad> Ice?
[18:02] <HixPad> Ha, malleability of metals at low temps :)
[18:02] <Upu> what on earth are you doing Lunar ?
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> -75°C freezer, tracker was in for 24 hours
[18:03] <Upu> -75'C ?
[18:03] <HixPad> Who aaa
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:03] <Upu> why ?
[18:03] <HixPad> Extreme testing
[18:03] <Upu> and -75'C ?
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> professor thought it would be good to test it to the extremes
[18:03] <Upu> lol
[18:03] <HixPad> Very teutonic Lunar_Lander
[18:03] <Upu> your professor needs to buy you a new NTX2
[18:03] <HixPad> Ha
[18:04] <Upu> they are rated to -10'c btw
[18:04] <Upu> and if your internal gets to -75'C you've done something wrong
[18:04] <HixPad> I'm guessing the pins broke because it stuck to someone's hand
[18:05] <HixPad> When they tried to remove them NTX2 came with :)
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD no that didn't happen
[18:05] <HixPad> How did power supply fare down there at -75
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, yeah I know I told him the lowest ever inside temp was Horus 16 with -25°C in the night
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> HixPad, the batteries were giving 4.8 V
[18:06] <HixPad> Whoaa
[18:06] <HixPad> Lithiums?
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah energizer ultimate lithium
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> 2x AA
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> *3
[18:06] <HixPad> Impressive
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:06] <HixPad> Curiosity rover should have had some as backups :D
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> but of course the NTX2 sounded very strange
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> and the waterfall lines were all over the place
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[18:09] <HixPad> I'm assuming it had sssssssshhhhhhiifffffft
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> actually it was like smoking when I took it out
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> you know that smoke if you open a fridge on a hot day
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[18:12] <daveake> Lunar_Lander The lowest internal temperature I've measured was -53C. That was because, due to a design/build error, inside and outside were more closely linked than they should have been :p
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[18:13] <daveake> But in a properly constructed payload, temperatures won't get anywhere near that low especially with a camera keeping things warm
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> I also said if we'd were to repeat that test, I would like to put in the complete payload ready to fly and only for two hours
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:13] <HixPad> Isn't that the moisture in the air freezing instantly?
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, what exactly happened so that it became so cold inside?
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> like a camera opening that let in cold or so?
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[18:18] <daveake> It was the "UFO" one. Top and bottom were poorly connected
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[18:19] <daveake> Aesthetics overruled engineering that day :p
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :P
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw what was the result of the afternoon discussion about beginner's questions?
[18:21] <HixPad> If I'm having so much trouble with coding is it worth doing the "learning python the hard way thing" to try to get a handle on coding or is that just another route?
[18:25] <HixPad> I'm ok following one thing, say Upu's guide to the ntx2 and playing around. I just get totally flummoxed with combining multiple things. I.e parsing the gps string tonreplace the string in the ntx2 guide
[18:25] <HixPad> *to replace
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[18:26] <HixPad> I've done the blinky light stuff but it seems like a huge process to go through all the tutorials and still not really understand what I'm looking at learning
[18:26] <Darkside> if you use a python tutorial, that'll teach you to code for python
[18:27] <Darkside> and will teach you to use pythonisms, which won't work for C or C++
[18:27] <HixPad> Yeah, it was recommended as a method to learn coding, but was thinking pretty much the same.
[18:28] <HixPad> Like learning how to form sentences in French then switching to a job in Spain
[18:30] <HixPad> It'd be nice if there was a way of describing the way the program flows in a way my left handed brain could click with
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> I call it "Stripes": http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/8/b/5yvn95-jclq66-yze/IMG0494.jpeg
[18:32] <HixPad> Would one of the animal guides for c++ be more use. They look pretty well structured from what I've seen of them
[18:33] <BrainDamage> there's flowcharts, some languages allow you to code small programs using them
[18:33] <BrainDamage> but they don't scale well
[18:33] <Darkside> yeah
[18:33] <Darkside> there are blockset and flowchart based programs, but they won't be suitable for this kind of thing
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[18:35] <BrainDamage> you can always draw a flowchart yourself beforehand on paper
[18:35] <BrainDamage> it can help to get an overall idea of what to do
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[18:35] <HixPad> I think what I really need to do is actually sit down and speak with someone as to how it works. I find in Catia, if I explains a problem to someone at work, they instantly pick it up if it's their relevant problem they are querying
[18:36] <BrainDamage> rubber duck debugging
[18:37] <HixPad> BrainDamage: Yeah, have an image of what should be happening, I.e parse gps into a string then that gets sent to ntx2 but it's the issue of how to get that info integrated. A sketch for each thing seems to work. Combining sketches forms error soup
[18:37] <SamSilver_> rubber duck debugging??
[18:38] <HixPad> Over the shoulder?
[18:38] <HixPad> Oops that's rubber necking. Best left to busy motorways, to ensure they come to a standstill after a crash ;)
[18:39] <SamSilver_> ahh I was up the creek without an explanation there for a sec
[18:40] <BrainDamage> SamSilver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
[18:41] <SamSilver_> Thanx BrainDamage
[18:43] <daveake> Not heard that term, but I have seen a place where they kept a stuffed teddy bear for the same purpose
[18:45] <HixPad> Ha, that's amusing. I reckon I need to come up with an idea for trying to get arduino to do some other simple things together then hopefully the process will click into my head.
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> This one's called "Aviation": http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/4/b/5yvn95-jclrwf-thk5/IMG0473.jpeg
[18:47] <HixPad> It's just soul destroying when you are going through the blinkenlight things and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Pun intended
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[18:49] <HixPad> Maybe beer bribery at the conf could work he he
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[18:55] <HixPad> http://goo.gl/tSMw8 anyone got experience of this book? Seems to be a good way of going about things
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[18:56] <BrainDamage> I like how the "accelerated c++" has the pic of a very twisted and curvy road
[18:56] <BrainDamage> kinda implying something
[18:57] <HixPad> It looks like the stage of the tour de France, alpe d'huez. A killer
[18:57] <BrainDamage> c++ objective oriented programming isn't very used in microcontrollers
[18:57] <BrainDamage> c++ itself is not very used in micros, when used, you use a subset of it
[18:58] <HixPad> Ah, so a motorcycle ashtray then?
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:59] <BrainDamage> arduino language use a subset of c++, but it's so limited you won't see much difference from plain C
[19:00] <BrainDamage> c++ is supposed to be an extension to c, altough it went further and redefined certain concepts, so it's not 100% backward compatible, you can howrever use it like c in near the totality of the statements ( and people would argue you'd be using it wrong )
[19:00] <HixPad> So searching for something for C for micro controllers is more akin to what I need?
[19:01] <BrainDamage> just plain C would be already ok
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[19:01] <BrainDamage> you won't have use stuff like file management functions, or console interface
[19:01] <BrainDamage> but I think they can still be a good learning experience
[19:02] <BrainDamage> ( also because you have to test your program somehow )
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[19:03] <BrainDamage> one word of warning: memory management is probably the most headache-inducing part of c, but imo also the most important
[19:04] <BrainDamage> so it's worth bashing your head a bit on it
[19:04] <HixPad> I've heard that about C++
[19:04] <BrainDamage> c++ is slightly better about it, but not considerably
[19:05] <BrainDamage> but from your sentences, it seems to me you have to first force yourself to think your problem trough
[19:05] <HixPad> I struggle enough with my own memory management :)
[19:05] <BrainDamage> and no programming language will help you straightening your toughts
[19:05] <eroomde> i'm the statistics kid
[19:05] <eroomde> markon, markov!
[19:06] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:06] <HixPad> Maybe I need to go back to good old fashioned paper and pencil to scheme out the processes and then annotate to highlight the areas that fall over.....
[19:07] <BrainDamage> I would recommend it, for instance, try writing the instructions using words to blink that led
[19:07] <eroomde> pencil and paper super necessary
[19:07] <BrainDamage> but write them in a non ambigous way
[19:07] <BrainDamage> something that any idiot reading it could follow step by step, and not fail
[19:08] <HixPad> The problem is its the idiot writing the notes ;)
[19:09] <eroomde> explaning code to a football with a face drawn on is often useful
[19:09] <HixPad> :D
[19:11] <nigelvh> American or European football?
[19:11] <BrainDamage> wilson!
[19:15] <nigelvh> Or perhaps even an American European football.
[19:17] <eroomde> i don't want to know what one of those is
[19:18] <nigelvh> Well, they're nearly spherical and made of Black Magic.
[19:19] <nigelvh> They also cause cancer.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:20] <nigelvh> If you're unlucky, they'll also give you Electro-ghonnorhea, the noisy killer.
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhhh
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> a friend of mine said that he picked up a piece of chocolate and it felt strange and he looked and there were grubs on it
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> so disgusting!
[19:22] <nigelvh> Is he sure that was a piece of chocolate?
[19:22] <nigelvh> Or perhaps a piece of Kitty-Roca
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah he said it was nut chocolate
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> what's that?
[19:24] <nigelvh> Cat poop. It's a play on almond roca.
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, in "Brian Wilson" by the barenaked ladies they sing "Drove downtown in the rain, 9:30 on a Tuesday night, just to check out the late night record shop"
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> what is a late night record shop?
[19:31] <nigelvh> it's a music store that's open late.
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[19:44] <DrLuke> how do I configure my ublox with ucenter?
[19:45] <jonsowman> which ublox is it?
[19:45] <DrLuke> ublox 6
[19:45] <jonsowman> yes but which flavour?
[19:45] <jonsowman> if it's a MAX-x you'll need to attach to the serial port
[19:45] <DrLuke> neo6
[19:45] <jonsowman> ah OK, the NEOs have an actual USB interface
[19:45] <DrLuke> well, I've got it hooked up over serial
[19:46] <jonsowman> oh that'll be fine
[19:46] <DrLuke> and I've got it talking to ucenter
[19:46] <jonsowman> ah you're asking how to actually use ucentre
[19:46] <DrLuke> but I can't find the option or button to open some sort of configuration
[19:46] <DrLuke> yeah :P
[19:46] <jonsowman> hit the Configuration window button in the toolbar at the top
[19:46] <jonsowman> it looks like a white rectangle or something
[19:46] <jonsowman> hover over the buttons until you find it
[19:47] <jonsowman> then choose your message type in the list on the left (e.g. CFG) and then choose the settings, and be sure to hit 'Send' in the bottom left to send the message to the receiver
[19:47] <jonsowman> bbl
[19:47] <DrLuke> I can't find the button
[19:47] <DrLuke> where is it more or less?
[19:48] <DrLuke> oh duh found it
[19:48] <jonsowman> :)
[19:48] <jonsowman> be back shortly
[19:48] <DrLuke> thanks
[19:50] <DrLuke> damn that's pretty complicated
[19:52] <eroomde> same as programming it via a micro non?
[19:53] <DrLuke> nah
[19:53] <DrLuke> different buttons everywhere
[19:53] <eroomde> could program it via a micro then :)
[19:53] <eroomde> easier
[19:54] <MrScienceMan> wait, wouldnt lose all the config if no batt is connected?
[19:54] <MrScienceMan> +it
[19:54] <eroomde> ok i'll wait
[19:54] <eroomde> and yes
[19:54] <eroomde> unless you can keep the ram hot with a backup batt or something
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[19:54] <DrLuke> no
[19:54] <eroomde> so an advantage of a micro is u can do it every time at startup
[19:54] <DrLuke> the config is written to flash
[19:55] <DrLuke> might be different when programming it over a micro
[19:55] <eroomde> ah, not all of them do
[19:58] <jcoxon> clearing map
[19:58] <jcoxon> any complaints?
[19:58] <eroomde> sort elbow
[19:58] <eroomde> too much typing i think but it's my mouse arm
[19:58] <eroomde> wore*
[19:59] <eroomde> sore*
[19:59] <costyn> jcoxon: you can remove all hyperion related stuff (hyperion, costyn-chase, pd3em-chase)
[19:59] <jcoxon> done
[19:59] <daveake> no complaints from me (just a quick test on my chase car on there)
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> this afternoon you discussed all about the mailing list and so on
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> was there a result of these talks?
[20:14] <fsphil> peace and harmony
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[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:18] <eroomde> i think there may be a new list being created
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:00] <jcoxon> evening Dan-K2VOL
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> evening james!
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon Dan-K2VOL
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[21:11] <eroomde> print "hi ", [nick for nick in nicks]
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:11] <eroomde> autogreet.py
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[21:15] <Laurenceb_> troll.py
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[22:44] <jcoxon> anyone got any wavs of telemetry
[22:44] <jcoxon> of a flight that is setup for dl-fldigi and spacenear.us
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[22:57] <KT5TK_QRL> jcoxon: If it helps, here is the complete PSK31 recording of BLT-31: https://www.dropbox.com/s/415v6rtq7x429gd/USB%2014.070MHz%208-18-2012%207%2029%2013%20AM%20%28trimmed%29.mp3 The signal shows up between 400-500 Hz in this MP3 capture and the file size is ~31MB
[22:58] <jcoxon> oooo lets try that
[22:58] <jcoxon> am testing dl-fldigi
[22:59] <KT5TK_QRL> good push to the limits ;)
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[23:02] <jcoxon> hmmm your flight doc isn't activated
[23:03] <jcoxon> the psk is working well though
[23:04] <jcoxon> will test this tomorrow i think
[23:04] <jcoxon> night KT5TK
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[23:18] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
[23:20] <KT5TK_QRL> It actually used to work fine. Maybe it's no longer active.
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[23:47] <DrLuke> well, the ublox6 i2c interface is really disappointing
[23:48] <DrLuke> it's basically just a uart over i2c :/
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 22 2012