[00:00] <Randomskk> yea, makes sense, since you're actually transmitting under your license
[00:00] <Randomskk> wish I could use mine like that
[00:00] <Randomskk> alas, the most I can do is operate my boring ground rig.
[00:00] <KT5TK_QRL> Think bout geting a US callsign ;)
[00:00] <Randomskk> hehe
[00:00] <KT5TK_QRL> which is possible
[00:01] <Randomskk> if I come to the US I can use my UK one under your license
[00:01] <Randomskk> but if I had a US callsign and was in the UK I still have to operate under UK license conditions
[00:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Launch from the sea
[00:01] <Randomskk> yea quite tempted
[00:01] <Randomskk> whose regulation takes priority once you're in intl waters is quite vague
[00:02] <Randomskk> once you drift over europe reciprocal licensing kicks in and you can transmit under your own callsign there too
[00:02] <KT5TK_QRL> probably noone cares at all
[00:02] <Randomskk> yea
[00:02] <Randomskk> once upon a time the ham stuff in the UK was city&guilds
[00:02] <Randomskk> who apparently cared a lot
[00:02] <Randomskk> and were really really anal about checking everyone kept station logs and never did anything bad
[00:02] <Randomskk> but now that ofcom run it, I don't think anyone cares at all
[00:03] <Randomskk> it's still the law, but it seems like the only people who will notice or care are other hams
[00:03] <KT5TK_QRL> "the police"
[00:03] <KT5TK_QRL> among us
[00:04] <Randomskk> indeed
[00:04] <KT5TK_QRL> I'll have to prepare some more stuff for tomorrow, but I'll probably contact you some time next week with some ADF7012 issues
[00:05] <Randomskk> still, we can manage quite well with the 10mW thing
[00:05] <Randomskk> 700+km range
[00:05] <Randomskk> just it'd be nice to get a higher data rate :P
[00:05] <Randomskk> hehe sure
[00:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, that's qrp spirit
[00:05] <Randomskk> qrp is well and good but I want live video
[00:06] <Randomskk> if sky can manage a thousand channels to my house I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do one HD channel :P
[00:06] <Randomskk> maybe six, for different viewing angles...
[00:06] <Randomskk> not that i'd seriously try doing DVB-S on a HAB.
[00:06] <KT5TK_QRL> why not? It's just for a short period...
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[00:07] <Randomskk> mainly because it's really hard :P
[00:07] <KT5TK_QRL> BTW You guys may be able to track my PSK beacon tomorrow through my websdr
[00:07] <KT5TK_QRL> http://tkrahn.dyndns.org:8901/
[00:07] <Randomskk> oh cool
[00:09] <KT5TK_QRL> It's just a less sensitive softrock on a long wire, but maybe it works
[00:10] <Randomskk> at that frequency you can practically direct sample it with an ADC :P
[00:11] <KT5TK_QRL> Well the PSK is actually generated that way
[00:11] <Randomskk> haha nice
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[00:12] <KT5TK_QRL> Breakout Board for AD9835 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9169
[00:12] <KT5TK_QRL> Just flipping the phase pins to directly modulate the phase on the rf level
[00:12] <Randomskk> ooh! that's neat.
[00:13] <Randomskk> super easy PSK
[00:13] <KT5TK_QRL> http://tkrahn.dyndns.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4611
[00:14] <KT5TK_QRL> more pics http://tkrahn.dyndns.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4560
[00:14] <joph> KT5TK, i would prefer a bigger IC
[00:15] <joph> http://ad9851/
[00:15] <joph> *AD9851
[00:16] <KT5TK_QRL> That one should work too. I just had the Sparkfun breakout in my junk box
[00:17] <KT5TK_QRL> Depends on which frequency you want to transmit.
[00:17] <KT5TK_QRL> for 14 MHz that one is just fine
[00:21] <KT5TK_QRL> The solar powered amplifier is similar to this one:
[00:21] <KT5TK_QRL> http://kl7r.ham-radio.ch/spice/sm0vpohalfwatt.html
[00:26] <KT5TK_QRL> Here is the original version by Harry Lythall: http://www.sm0vpo.com:800/tx/qrp-hf1.htm
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[06:54] <costyn> morning
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[07:12] <Dutch-Mill> Morning costyn
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[07:40] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: pretty nervous about tommorow :)
[07:40] <costyn> just filled and measured my neck-lift bottles
[07:41] <costyn> wind will be about 10km/h so won't be too much
[07:41] <Dutch-Mill> Hi costyn yep can imagine that
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[07:43] <Dutch-Mill> whats the prediction for tomorrow Rijswijk -> Amsterdam -> Flevopolder ?
[07:43] <costyn> well yes, that's why I'm not launching from Rijswijk
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[07:44] <costyn> going to launch from Arnhem
[07:44] <costyn> balloon will go towards Deventer
[07:44] <costyn> other possible launching sites have too much possibility of a wet landing
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[07:45] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d4352938700fa643b83b2d12dead22fb38721b97
[07:46] <Dutch-Mill> oke thanks
[07:47] <Dutch-Mill> ...or Northorn if its floats ;-)
[07:49] <Dutch-Mill> The track is a bit off route for me, i'm in Hilversum tomorrow ...give it a try ... good luck
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[07:52] Nick change: Wizard -> Wizard-2E0PGW
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[08:23] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] US Launches today"
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[08:42] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Re: US Launches today"
[08:43] <costyn> hmm
[08:43] <costyn> I thought the balloon I'd gotten from Tim was a 1200
[08:43] <costyn> I just put it on the scales, it seems more like a 1600
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[08:44] <fsphil> nuts
[08:44] <costyn> just thought measure it to be sure
[08:44] <fsphil> good thinking
[08:44] <costyn> it doesn't say it anywhere on the box unfortunately
[08:45] <fsphil> I've never done that with mine
[08:45] <fsphil> does it say who made it?
[08:45] <costyn> I'll need quite a bit more helium, thankfully the helium guy only had a big bottle so I should be ok
[08:45] <fsphil> ah
[08:45] <costyn> doesn't say on the box either
[08:45] <fsphil> sorted
[08:45] <costyn> yup
[08:46] <fsphil> the 1600s are risky when underfilled
[08:46] <costyn> just got to fill my neck-lift bottles some more
[08:46] <fsphil> you might get a bit more altitude too
[08:47] <Upu> just fill it to the lift you want and shove some more in
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[08:47] <costyn> Upu: yea will do that to make sure
[08:47] <Upu> my rule is 1 squirt extra for luck 2 squirts if you're flying a GoPro and want it back
[08:47] <costyn> I really don't want a floater
[08:48] <costyn> define 'squirt'?
[08:48] <Upu> lol err
[08:48] <Upu> a few seconds of gas extra
[08:48] <costyn> k
[08:48] <Upu> never really counted
[08:48] <Upu> 3.6m3 is a number I have in my head for a 1600g that will probably end in a float
[08:49] <hialt> HAM -1 is all ready to launch at 10.30 this morning, predicted landing near Basildon
[08:49] <Upu> morning hialt
[08:49] <fsphil> good luck hialt
[08:49] <Upu> I won't be able to track as I'm off out sorry but good luck
[08:50] <hialt> How long does it take to fill a 1600g balloon with Hydrogen?
[08:50] <Upu> Depends what regulator your using, go slow and take alot of care pls
[08:51] <hialt> Thanks, will do
[08:51] <fsphil> yea, take your time
[08:51] <Upu> remember minimised the contact with air and don't "vent" the H2 off to clear the pip
[08:51] <Upu> pipe
[08:52] <fsphil> have as little contact with the balloon as you can too
[08:52] <fsphil> the less people near it the better
[08:52] <fsphil> but I'm sure you know all this :)
[08:53] <costyn> Upu: that's a lot
[08:53] <costyn> Upu: burst calc has 3.3 to get 5 m/s
[08:53] <costyn> Upu: but maybe your payload was heavier?
[08:53] <Upu> oh so I wasn't far off
[08:53] <Upu> I made a qguess
[08:54] <Upu> if the calc says 3.3 for 5m/s I'd put 3.6 in :)
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[08:57] <costyn> i have no way of measuring the amount of He, only neck lift
[08:57] <costyn> it's actually 3.3 for 5.5
[08:58] <Upu> the burst calc should give you the figures
[08:58] <Upu> well if it is a 1200g its going up like a rocket
[08:58] <hialt> our payload is 450grams
[08:58] <costyn> yea, it's pretty accurate right?
[08:58] <Upu> if its a 1600g I'd still put more in as they are fairly inconsistent performance
[08:58] <Upu> thats nice and light
[08:59] <fsphil> they really don't like bursting
[08:59] <hialt> we've got 3m of H so will go for that
[08:59] <Upu> 3m3 ?
[08:59] <fsphil> you need it to be pretty big before the air thins out too much and the ascent slows
[09:01] <costyn> ok thx for the tips
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[09:01] <costyn> will put extra
[09:02] <daveake> Morning all. HAM-1 going up soon?
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[09:03] <hialt> working on it
[09:03] <fsphil> 10:30, not taking into account ISH
[09:03] <hialt> ish at the moment
[09:03] <fsphil> ISH is common, don't worry about it :)
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[09:04] <daveake> OK I'd better erect my mast then
[09:04] <fsphil> never rush to launch on a deadline, esp. with H2 :)
[09:04] <hialt> tell me about it
[09:04] <daveake> H2 for a 1st flight? Brave.
[09:04] <hialt> merv here at moment will be in chase car when launched
[09:05] <daveake> You're launching the chase car? :p
[09:05] <fsphil> yay english
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[09:05] <hialt> have ft.817 3g dongle and laptop in car
[09:06] <fsphil> all charged up? (only silly people don't charge their laptop before a lanuch .......... )
[09:06] <fsphil> n<>u
[09:06] <gonzo_> is that in the 'things not to do' list?
[09:06] <daveake> No
[09:06] <fsphil> 'things not to do again' list
[09:06] <daveake> The list is things I've done :)
[09:06] <gonzo_> hehe
[09:07] <hialt> have 12 to 19v converter for laptop ;-)
[09:07] <daveake> Plus one of fsphil's
[09:07] <fsphil> cunning
[09:07] <gonzo_> ah, that it's flat car batt time
[09:07] <number10> best put mast up - looks like its going to head towards me
[09:07] <daveake> As I am silly I take a spare battery and car charger
[09:07] <daveake> and mains charger and inverter
[09:07] <daveake> and spare laptop
[09:07] <fsphil> lol
[09:07] <daveake> with spare battery and car charger and mains charger
[09:07] <fsphil> I've got an extended battery for my laptop now
[09:07] <daveake> see a plan here?
[09:07] <gonzo_> just fitting a split charge to the LR here
[09:08] <number10> also good to take spare chase car
[09:08] <fsphil> what's the split charge thing all about?
[09:08] <daveake> It is :p
[09:08] <daveake> So you can have 2 independent batteruies both charged from the alternator
[09:08] <gonzo_> 2nd batt on the car that will charge when the car is running, but disconnected otherwise
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[09:08] <daveake> RVs have them (which is how I know)
[09:08] <gonzo_> so not just pll'ed up
[09:08] <fsphil> aaah
[09:09] <fsphil> that must have a diode then?
[09:09] <fsphil> to prevent discharging
[09:09] <daveake> So when you flatten the aux battery, the starter battery is still fresh as a daisy
[09:09] <fsphil> I like this idea
[09:09] <daveake> I'm going to do the same
[09:10] <fsphil> don't think my clio could be worked that way
[09:10] <gonzo_> lots of ways to do it, but my prefered method is to use a fat relay to connect in the 2nd batt in the system, when the system V is up to 13odd volts
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[09:10] <fsphil> unless I put the battery in the boot
[09:10] <gonzo_> just using a diode has too much drop
[09:10] <daveake> The ones you buy are big fat relays AIUI
[09:10] <fsphil> true
[09:10] Nick change: Matt_ -> Guest40948
[09:10] <daveake> I got 2 sealed LA batteries at a car relay for this
[09:11] <daveake> rally
[09:11] <daveake> My word cache failed me there :)
[09:11] <gonzo_> they ysed to use diodes, but you need to then start buggering about wuith the alternator to compensate for the drop
[09:11] <daveake> Interestig
[09:11] <daveake> n
[09:11] <fsphil> makes sense
[09:11] <daveake> Right, afk as I do my erecting
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[09:11] <fsphil> oh ar
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[09:12] <gonzo_> the other thing I am doing is to put a batt isolator switch, but across the fat relay. So I can just knock the 2nd batt in cct on demand. An internal jump start
[09:12] Nick change: guy -> Guest25159
[09:12] <fsphil> like that
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[09:34] <fsphil> nothing like proper toast
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[09:52] <SamSilver_> wd daveake are you now erect?
[09:52] <daveake> Yes fully extended
[09:52] <SamSilver_> miss cloud happy?
[09:53] <daveake> Looking after her new pussy
[09:53] <daveake> Sorry
[09:53] <daveake> Pussies
[09:53] <daveake> Pregnant cat gave buirth 2 3 kittens yesterday
[09:53] <daveake> Not ourts - looking after them for a friend
[09:53] <fsphil> ah brilliant
[09:53] <fsphil> kittens are great
[09:54] <fsphil> they grow up though
[09:54] <SamSilver_> well treat them to some ooopoo and tweedle tweedle sound later
[09:54] <daveake> :)
[09:54] <daveake> She went into labour late Thursday night, but stopped without producing any littluns
[09:54] <daveake> So off to the vet for a c-section
[09:54] <daveake> 1 dead 3 alive
[09:55] <daveake> Dead one was malformed - heart outside its chest
[09:55] <fsphil> eeu
[09:55] <daveake> Other 3 are doing fine though
[09:55] <fsphil> mum recoverd?
[09:55] <daveake> Yeah she's fine
[09:55] <daveake> Very protective
[09:55] <fsphil> good
[09:55] <daveake> Suprising considering as far as she is concerned, she fell asleep then woke up with 3 fluffy littluns beside her
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[10:01] <daveake> All go "aaaah" .. http://i.imgur.com/ICh4Y.jpg
[10:05] <fsphil> it's sooo wuvly!
[10:06] <fsphil> my sisters cat is evil. you see it looking at you and you know it's thinking "if you where just a bit smaller, I'd eat you"
[10:07] <hialt> ham-1 airborne - all looking good
[10:07] <fsphil> nice!
[10:07] <fsphil> it's not updating on the map yet
[10:07] <Wizard-2E0PGW> cool
[10:09] <fsphil> nice launch site
[10:10] <fsphil> still no telemetry
[10:10] <junderwood> any second now
[10:10] <fsphil> is your dl-fldigi client set to online mode hialt?
[10:10] <junderwood> dial 434.071
[10:10] <fsphil> ah you get signal
[10:10] <fsphil> there we go
[10:11] <junderwood> nice solid signal
[10:12] <fsphil> it's a bit close to Sharpthrone
[10:12] <daveake> Now if I'd been on 434 instead of 430 I'd have got it ages ago :p
[10:13] <daveake> Wondered wtf was going on :)
[10:13] <fsphil> lol
[10:13] <fsphil> I spent ages looking for a signal on 433.075 mhz once
[10:13] Nick change: number10 -> number10_M0MDB
[10:13] <daveake> :)
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[10:13] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
[10:13] <fsphil> all tuned up on the right frequency
[10:14] <junderwood_M0JCU> hope the autotune works. I'm going out
[10:14] <fsphil> funcube dongle and the preamp doing their thing
[10:14] <daveake> Same combo here
[10:14] <daveake> Lovely strong clear sigmal
[10:14] <daveake> signal even
[10:14] <daveake> What size balloon is HAM-1?
[10:16] <hialt> sorry guys we are trackcking now
[10:17] <hialt> 1600howee
[10:17] <daveake> ta
[10:18] <fsphil> ascent is a bit slow
[10:18] <fsphil> actually that could just be spacenear.us getting it wrong
[10:18] <daveake> A little. What weight payload and which gas?
[10:18] <hialt> launched at 11.05
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[10:18] <hialt> 450g payload 3cumtr hydrogen
[10:18] <daveake> OK it'll speed up a bit
[10:19] <fsphil> yea
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[10:19] <SamSilver_> is this costyn's payload?
[10:19] <daveake> Should go quite high too :)
[10:20] <fsphil> SamSilver_: it's hialt, southern england
[10:20] <daveake> costyn's is a separate flight, tomorrow I think
[10:20] <SamSilver_> thanx fsphil what is his nick on here?
[10:20] <SamSilver_> ahh thanx daveake
[10:20] <fsphil> hialt :)
[10:20] <hialt> schoolboy error we forgot to re write the phone number on the side when we replacesd the gaffa tape:-9
[10:21] <fsphil> going for a high altitude with this configuration
[10:21] <hialt> that would be icing on the cake
[10:21] <daveake> I printed and laminated a load of contact cards yesterday, in the hope I'll use them more often
[10:21] <fsphil> I put a laminated contact sheet inside hadie:2, and one taped on the outside
[10:22] <fsphil> the first photo on the camera is a picture of that sheet too :)
[10:22] <hialt> off to chase car now will come up on irc as merv when we get a gps signal
[10:22] <daveake> Yeah, good plan. One outside so they see it; one inside in the case the other one falls off
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[10:22] <fsphil> that did rely on it landing in at least a somewhat populated area
[10:23] <daveake> :)
[10:23] <daveake> Can anyone get the live prediction running?
[10:23] <fsphil> not counting sheep
[10:23] <daveake> lol
[10:23] <SamSilver_> fsphil: that is a brill idea first pic is contact details - steal
[10:24] <daveake> Yeah, keep meaning to do that one
[10:24] <number10_M0MDB> is the crc differnt on HAM-1?
[10:24] <daveake> In sea water the SD card will be the last thing to survive :)
[10:24] <chaoshax> I am just looking at Ham-1 is there any risk it might come down near london?
[10:24] Wizard-2E0PGW (5b5491f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[10:25] <fsphil> someone must tell me how to turn on the prediction some time
[10:27] <wiiguy> what does the ham-1 contain ?
[10:28] <daveake> Just reading the IRC log for yesterday afternoon .... I didn't know it's 1 antenna 2 antennas
[10:28] <daveake> Learn sommat new every day :)
[10:29] <fsphil> what's that?
[10:29] <daveake> What I just said
[10:29] <daveake> I thought it was antennae
[10:29] <fsphil> aaaah
[10:29] <number10_M0MDB> daveake: is learning a new song fsphil daveake 1 antenna 2 antennas 3 antennas 4
[10:30] <daveake> Presumably you know that song all the way up to number10?
[10:30] <number10_M0MDB> :D
[10:30] <fsphil> boom
[10:30] <joph> daveake, samsung has a waterproof sd card ;)
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[10:31] <joph> may you ask them how long it surrives in sea water, with luck you'll get free samples ;)
[10:31] <daveake> Pah. They're all sea-waterproof
[10:31] <daveake> Well, people who have dunked them in the sea always seem to get their pix back
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[10:36] <SamSilver_> how long till Bill's launch? in hours & mins would be cool then don't have to do the conversion
[10:37] <number10_M0MDB> 12 something CDT - about 6?
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[10:38] <daveake> number10_M0MDB YOu chasing this? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=8b399c16d807c24fa9920522506653aaa70bd0f9
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[10:39] <number10_M0MDB> it will land not far - but I dont know the guys and would do so uninvited
[10:39] <daveake> ok
[10:40] <Hix> good moaning
[10:45] <number10_M0MDB> mornin
[10:45] <daveake> gm
[10:45] <daveake> Chase car near the M23 now
[10:45] <daveake> number10_M0MDB can monitor the speed when it does. He likes doing that :D
[10:46] <SamSilver_> I am keen to see the predictor working for this flight
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[10:46] <Hix> looks like a good day for a flight. does HAM-1 have imaging on board?
[10:46] <daveake> Guess so - 450g total weight
[10:46] <daveake> That's enough for a camera
[10:46] <Hix> should be some pretty good images with current conditions
[10:46] <number10_M0MDB> lol daveake - its my entertainment when I see constant data I get suspicious
[10:47] Action: daveake makes note to randomize data a little
[10:47] <daveake> Overcast here in Berks
[10:47] <number10_M0MDB> I would never had noticed if you had
[10:47] <number10_M0MDB> bright baking ot and sunny here
[10:47] <Darkside> hmm
[10:47] <Hix> crystal clear herts essex borders
[10:47] <number10_M0MDB> +h
[10:47] <Darkside> i don't think it'll get high enough to get over the hill next to me
[10:48] <daveake> I did think of having it show a max of 112.xxx kph, where xxx was the actual speed :)
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[10:48] <number10_M0MDB> can you not walk up the hill darkside - go mobile
[10:49] <daveake> This is England; you won't get attacked by spiders or snakes or drop bears
[10:50] <number10_M0MDB> people maybe ;)
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[10:50] <daveake> The shift is down to 330Hz
[10:50] <Darkside> number10_M0MDB: too far
[10:50] <Darkside> too humid
[10:50] <Darkside> too tired
[10:50] <Darkside> lol
[10:51] <number10_M0MDB> lol no stamina you young chaps
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[10:52] <Hix> how on earth did they get a NOTAM that near to LGW?
[10:53] <daveake> It was dependent on winds not taking the flight over London
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[10:54] <nick_> It gives me hope about getting one in Oxford
[10:55] <nick_> Or maybe I can just point out to them that it's the Oxford London airport, and since London is an hour away there should be no problem
[10:55] <daveake> The NOTAM says ... " ACTIVITY WILL
[10:55] <daveake> SITE"
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[10:57] <nick_> North isn't that far from South
[10:58] <daveake> Hmmmm
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[11:00] <Wizard-2E0PGW> What's the target height for ham-1?
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[11:01] <hialt> 30,000m target height w
[11:02] <Wizard-2E0PGW> I think Merv is gonna need a boat
[11:02] <SamSilver_> hialt: I think it will over shoot
[11:02] <daveake> 30km target? lol
[11:03] <daveake> 41km more like
[11:03] <number10_M0MDB> more like 402k
[11:03] <daveake> ^^ would be impressive
[11:03] <chaoshax> I hope you guys don't speed :)
[11:03] <Darkside> hrm
[11:03] <Darkside> does anyone know what the big arch thing north of central london is?
[11:03] <Wizard-2E0PGW> na, the acting was awful
[11:03] <number10_M0MDB> divide by 10 daveake
[11:04] <Darkside> i could see this big white arch from the plane on the way in
[11:04] <hialt> water wings packed in chase car
[11:04] <Wizard-2E0PGW> does the payload float? :)
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[11:05] <Darkside> oh i figured it out
[11:05] <Darkside> wembley stadium
[11:06] <chaoshax> lol
[11:06] <Darkside> bloody huge arch
[11:06] <hialt> payload should float apparently
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[11:07] <Hix> what happened to the predictor on spacenear?
[11:08] <daveake> Needs setting up; I assume no-one who knows how to do it is around
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[11:11] <Darkside> hold
[11:11] <Darkside> i can do it
[11:11] <daveake> I knew there was a good reason for having you in our timezone ;)
[11:12] <Darkside> i would have been awake anyway
[11:12] <daveake> true
[11:12] <Darkside> 30km burst?
[11:12] <number10_M0MDB> dont think so
[11:12] <daveake> 1600 hwoyee h2 450g payload
[11:13] <daveake> Try 40 - 41
[11:13] <Darkside> 35km?
[11:13] <Darkside> ok
[11:13] <Darkside> ok, webpage setup, downloading gfs;'s
[11:13] <Darkside> predictions should be starting shortly
[11:13] <daveake> good stuff
[11:13] <daveake> Prediction I did earlier had it turning west before now
[11:14] <Hix> good work Darkside
[11:14] <daveake> ping hialt
[11:16] <SamSilver_> daveake: acent rate was 4.5 in your prediction
[11:17] <SamSilver_> HAM-1 was doing 4.0 4.2 and 4.5 in the first part
[11:17] <daveake> Seems to have been 4.4 mostly, and it will tend to increase a bit
[11:17] <daveake> Sure
[11:19] <SamSilver_> ah great predictor working thanx Darkside
[11:19] <Darkside> np
[11:19] <hialt> irc n/f in chase car but I'm at mission control following things and in touch
[11:19] <daveake> hialt Can you see a PM from me?
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[11:21] <hialt> can see it now - will pass on to "pilots" in chase car
[11:21] <daveake> Well, just for info really
[11:27] <fsphil> what's the current dial?
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[11:30] <Hix> 434.0735 for me with 325 shift
[11:32] <number10_M0MDB> looking at google traffic it looks like the chase car is in a jam
[11:32] <daveake> 3.6kph
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[11:33] <Vrooom> M25 at this time of hour is bad
[11:33] <fsphil> I have it
[11:33] <number10_M0MDB> they could be waiting to cross the tunnel for a while
[11:33] <Wizard-2E0PGW> It'll be queueing for the dartford crossing tolls
[11:33] <fsphil> trace on the waterfall
[11:33] <number10_M0MDB> they should get rid of the tolls - it causes pollution
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[11:33] <Wizard-2E0PGW> indeed it does
[11:34] <Wizard-2E0PGW> governments are only green when it suits their interests :)
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[11:36] <hialt> yes it is congestion for the dartford tolls
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[11:40] <fsphil> the saw filter is definitely working, no way I'd see this weak a signal without it
[11:41] <Darkside> woo
[11:41] <daveake> Yes, good result Darkside :)
[11:41] <fsphil> still a while before it's strong enough to decode
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[11:44] <Darkside> mm theres a hill in the way here
[11:45] <Darkside> and i'm on the wrong side of this building
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[11:48] <daveake> 12 listeners; not bad
[11:48] <merv_chase> at last
[11:49] <daveake> At last a connection, or at last through the toll booths? :)
[11:49] <merv_chase> stuck in traffic south of dartford tunnel :-(
[11:49] <daveake> Yeah we noticed
[11:50] <merv_chase> at toll bopoths
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[11:50] <number10_M0MDB> we noticed merv_chase
[11:51] <Wizard-2E0PGW> Lovely day to sit in a queue, hope you've got aircon merv :)
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[11:52] <Darkside> urgh yeah
[11:52] <Darkside> the humidity sucks
[11:52] <Darkside> temperature is fine
[11:52] <Darkside> just want the humidity to go away
[11:52] <merv_chase> yes aircon
[11:53] <merv_chase> getting an odd signall from ham1
[11:54] <Vrooom> Hope not that you texting while driving :)
[11:54] <Guest40948> merv, what frequency is it centred on at the mo? Matt
[11:55] <Wizard-2E0PGW> I'm getting a signal, just not strong enough to decypher
[11:55] <Guest40948> im in boreham which means itll be doing a direct pass very soon
[11:55] <merv_chase> no peter driving
[11:56] <fsphil> aaah, the rtty sond
[11:56] <fsphil> sound
[11:56] <fsphil> starting to come through now
[11:56] <fsphil> and some partial text
[11:59] <merv_chase> 101,000feet briliant
[12:00] <merv_chase> on the move north of the dartford tunnel
[12:00] <merv_chase> 434.073
[12:03] <Vrooom> has anyone put missles or whatever into space and did a orbit, then land back down ?
[12:03] <SamSilver_> yes NASA
[12:03] <joph> lol
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[12:06] <fsphil> got one
[12:06] <fsphil> 589km, personal best :)
[12:06] <SamSilver_> live feed from Bill > http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wb8elk
[12:06] <Vrooom> obviously nasa but amuter people?
[12:06] <fsphil> no amateur has ever put anything into orbit
[12:07] <craag> fsphil: Congrats! Did you mention you were going to be up a mountain today?
[12:07] <fsphil> that's tomorrow craag, this is just with my colinear
[12:07] <SamSilver_> fsphil: yet!!!!
[12:07] <craag> Ah ok, even more impressive then!
[12:07] <fsphil> I think Darkside's amp needs the credit :)
[12:07] <fsphil> and annoyingly I have to go now, heading to the beach
[12:07] <Darkside> cant hear anything yet
[12:08] <Darkside> i dont think its high enough
[12:09] <Darkside> oh wait
[12:09] <Darkside> i'm on teh wrong side of the building
[12:09] <Darkside> no wonder
[12:09] <daveake> :)
[12:09] <SamSilver_> oops Bill link was posted before I looked at it seems it was a recording
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[12:09] <Darkside> i'm completely disoriented here
[12:10] <fsphil> It's Bill launching it, it'll probably be tomorrow
[12:10] <daveake> :)
[12:11] <number10_M0MDB> hialt: what size parachute is on HAM-1?
[12:12] <merv_chase> 1600g howee
[12:12] <number10_M0MDB> parachute?
[12:12] <merv_chase> 36"
[12:12] <merv_chase> oops
[12:12] <number10_M0MDB> ok ta
[12:12] <number10_M0MDB> :)
[12:12] <fsphil> right, away properly this time. good luck with the flight guys, hopefully you have an easy recovery
[12:16] <Darkside> ok
[12:16] <Darkside> rxing
[12:17] <Darkside> rx pos hasnt updated yt tho
[12:18] <daveake> 13 receivers then. One quite a way away :p
[12:18] <Darkside> lol
[12:18] <Darkside> i cant keep this up tho
[12:18] <Darkside> im sitting on a balcony
[12:19] <Darkside> ok going back in
[12:21] <SamSilver_> thats what my mad gf said to me
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[12:21] <SamSilver_> mad = craZy
[12:22] <Darkside> lol
[12:22] <Darkside> well, the preamp worked well
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[12:23] <merv_chase> matg
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[12:23] <Guest40948> Visual with HAM1 over Boreham for approx 1 minute... can that be!?
[12:23] <SamSilver_> 11:30 am CDT Saturday August 18th 2012 is what time GMT? please!
[12:23] <Guest40948> white pin prick in the sky
[12:24] <SamSilver_> Guest40948: lat and log of your location
[12:24] <SamSilver_> log = long
[12:24] <SamSilver_> grid ref
[12:24] <Guest40948> 51.76161, 0.5434114
[12:25] <SamSilver_> Guest40948: if you are wearing welders googles it is da sun
[12:25] <SamSilver_> k will check if possible
[12:26] <craag> Definetely possible I think, the balloon is going to be pretty big right now.
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[12:26] <SamSilver_> yip what quad of the sky
[12:26] <Guest40948> not a cloud in the sky here. was relatively east to distinguish white dot agains blue backdrop
[12:26] <SamSilver_> clear and bright
[12:27] <SamSilver_> I give Guest40948 17 Hab votes
[12:27] <Guest40948> can still see it!
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[12:27] <SamSilver_> with the naked eye?
[12:27] <SamSilver_> or assisted?
[12:28] <SamSilver_> fak me fingers
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[12:28] <SamSilver_> anyone 2nd me on the awarding of HAB points
[12:29] <SamSilver_> 17 seems right for a vis spot
[12:29] <craag> Visual spot of burst though... that would be worth a lot more!
[12:29] <SamSilver_> Guest40948: if you could run after it and catch it 1000 points on offer
[12:30] <daveake> 15 listeners now
[12:30] <daveake> Not far off 42km
[12:30] <SamSilver_> @ 41.623
[12:30] <Guest40948> ive taken dozens of stills but i have shaky hands and i doubt the res will be good enough. wheres a zoom vid cam when you need one!
[12:31] <daveake> Ascent slowing down. Burst soon I think
[12:31] <number10_M0MDB> if it has a camera in it, and gets recovered, it could beat my #1 spot
[12:31] <SamSilver_> Guest40948: grab binocks and aim down them even if it is with a point and shoot
[12:31] <daveake> Awe :)
[12:32] <number10_M0MDB> that was supposed to be "awe :( " daveake
[12:32] <SamSilver_> 2.5 m/s up
[12:32] <number10_M0MDB> float
[12:32] <daveake> It was :D
[12:32] <daveake> Nah not floating
[12:32] <SamSilver_> 2.3 and slowing
[12:32] <daveake> 42km
[12:32] <daveake> It'll burst soon I think
[12:33] <Rob_M0DTS> what is latest record height?
[12:33] <junderwood_M0JCU> daveake, wishful thinking?
[12:33] <daveake> 44.something
[12:33] <DrLuke> is that a new altitude record?
[12:33] <daveake> No
[12:33] <costyn> damn... HAM1 is certainly going for it
[12:33] <Rob_M0DTS> oh a long way off then yet!
[12:33] <daveake> Yup
[12:33] <junderwood_M0JCU> frequency has started to drift quite quickly
[12:33] <costyn> oh ok
[12:33] <gonzo_> freq drifting a lot now
[12:33] <daveake> number10_M0MDB What's your highest pix record at?
[12:34] <number10_M0MDB> 42525 I think - I'll check
[12:34] <number10_M0MDB> can never find that page on the ukhas site
[12:34] <junderwood_M0JCU> So. Float or burst?
[12:35] <daveake> My £10 says burst
[12:35] <costyn> +1 for burst
[12:35] <junderwood_M0JCU> I think your money is probably safe
[12:35] <number10_M0MDB> 42545 for ANU2
[12:35] <costyn> number10_M0MDB: almost there :)
[12:35] <SamSilver_> daveake: sure burst but when?
[12:35] <daveake> hmm
[12:36] <daveake> < 43km
[12:36] <Darkside> bloody hell
[12:36] <Darkside> another ridiculously high launch
[12:36] <Darkside> i need to get me one of these
[12:36] <daveake> Though it ain't listening
[12:36] <SamSilver_> lol
[12:36] <junderwood_M0JCU> Oops. Bug on the telemetry frame number
[12:36] <junderwood_M0JCU> 998, 999, 000, 001
[12:37] <daveake> Whoops
[12:37] <DrLuke> uh oh
[12:37] <Darkside> ascent rate slowing nicely...
[12:37] <daveake> ANU2 lost that record
[12:37] <Darkside> spacenears handles that anyway
[12:37] <number10_M0MDB> :(, but only if they recover it....
[12:37] <daveake> true!
[12:37] <daveake> Cling on to that hope!
[12:37] <number10_M0MDB> I am off out for a bit of a drive ;)
[12:37] <SamSilver_> 1.5 m/s and slowing
[12:38] <SamSilver_> I say Spain is looking close
[12:38] merv_chase (5284eaf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[12:38] <junderwood_M0JCU> Burst?
[12:38] <Rob_M0DTS> pop
[12:38] <gonzo_> qsb
[12:39] <Darkside> 42727...
[12:39] <Darkside> nice
[12:39] <DrLuke> pop!
[12:39] <daveake> Was afk but popped I see
[12:39] <DrLuke> just now
[12:39] <merv_chase> 140,000feet not bad
[12:39] <number10_M0MDB> drifting a bit -
[12:40] <number10_M0MDB> does it have a camera in it merv_chase ?
[12:40] <SamSilver_> wd daveake you were on the money with a burst happening soon
[12:40] <daveake> :)
[12:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] <DrLuke> lol, now the predictor says it lands somwhere in the ocean
[12:40] <daveake> merv_chase Next time seal up the hole where the aerial goes :D
[12:41] <daveake> Freq drifting very quickly
[12:42] <daveake> Interesting landing posn :D
[12:43] <junderwood_M0JCU> Descent rate: 110 m/s!!?!?!?!
[12:43] <junderwood_M0JCU> Mach 0.3
[12:44] <junderwood_M0JCU> Was that a 36inch parachute or 36mm?
[12:44] <DrLuke> gotta go fast!
[12:45] <daveake> I can't decode - the freq is falling way too fast
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[12:45] <G8KNN-Jon> afc can't keep up
[12:45] <daveake> Nope
[12:46] <daveake> I've got it on fast and I've increased the filter width
[12:46] <DrLuke> what's causing the drift?
[12:46] <daveake> A sign of poor insulation - air getting inside as it falls
[12:46] <DrLuke> oh
[12:47] <DrLuke> one more thing to put on the list
[12:47] SelfishMan (~SelfishMa@office.rabidmonkey.org) joined #highaltitude.
[12:47] <daveake> Make sure the aerial hole is sealed up. Perhaps wrap the transmitter up
[12:47] <number10_M0MDB> dont leave a hole where the antenna comes out - also try to inslate the tracker a bit
[12:48] <DrLuke> yeah
[12:48] <gonzo_> the shift has dropped
[12:48] <DrLuke> putting a blob of hotglue should seal up any hole
[12:48] <gonzo_> batts getting cold?
[12:48] <number10_M0MDB> or just keep some peices of the foam and stuff in
[12:49] <gonzo_> looks lik it's lost gps lock
[12:50] <Rob_M0DTS> weak here now
[12:50] <DrLuke> :(
[12:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> temperature seems to have settled
[12:50] <merv_chase> lost HAM-1
[12:50] <daveake> The GPS might be temp related with all the cold air, in which case it should fix itself later
[12:51] <daveake> Freq rocketing back up now
[12:51] <daveake> I think this is the most difficult one to track that I've seen!
[12:52] <junderwood_M0JCU> longer packet. GPS?
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[12:52] <gonzo_> short pkt $$HAM-1,053,124704,+ ,+ , *cecd
[12:53] <merv_chase> looks like the transmitter has failed
[12:53] <daveake> No it's still txing
[12:53] <daveake> But no GPS coords
[12:54] <daveake> e.g. $$HAM-1,072,124704,+ ,+ , *472d
[12:54] <daveake> ^^ that passed crc check
[12:55] Hiena (~boreger@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[12:55] <daveake> Suggest everyone keeps trying to decode; that GPS may spring back into life
[12:55] Hiena (~boreger@ joined #highaltitude.
[12:55] <Rob_M0DTS> freq now stabilising .075 ish
[12:56] <gonzo_> and shift increasing a little
[12:56] <gonzo_> poss warming up
[12:56] <Rob_M0DTS> lost it here now too weak... GL with recovery.
[12:56] <daveake> Yes
[12:56] <Guest40948> is CS the same?
[12:57] <Guest40948> 350
[12:57] <junderwood_M0JCU> using 270 here
[12:57] <Guest40948> thanks
[12:57] <gonzo_> yep losing here. But it did get weak when the shift reduced, so poss for sigh still at it warms?
[12:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> 300 now
[12:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> works better if you increase the filter bandwidth a little
[12:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> say 110
[12:59] <number10_M0MDB> gps back
[12:59] <daveake> signal very very weak here now
[13:00] <number10_M0MDB> ? HAM-1,093,125922,+5200.2685,+00031.4323,15999*e31e
[13:00] <daveake> I said the GPS might come back :D
[13:00] <number10_M0MDB> didnt seem to upload to spacenearus
[13:00] <merv_chase> juis waiting for lock
[13:00] <merv_chase> ham-1 transmitting again
[13:01] <daveake> All gone here
[13:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> Gone. Dial 434.073
[13:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> I would guess it is down to the last 1.5 to 1 km
[13:02] <Guest40948> still rx here
[13:02] MrScienceMan (~zo@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:02] <Guest40948> link not consistent enough atm
[13:02] <junderwood_M0JCU> Guest40948, wehre is "here"/
[13:02] <Guest40948> essex
[13:02] Nick change: junderwood_M0JCU -> junderwood
[13:03] <Guest40948> just as i say that.... nothing... gone
[13:04] <G8KNN-Jon> last position $$HAM-1,104,130215,+5157.2784,+00032.0033,00726*e9cd
[13:04] navracB (545c0e05@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[13:06] <navracB> just got back - looking at fldigi that one looked fun on the way down
[13:06] <daveake> The freq shifted faster than Usain Bolt
[13:07] <Guest40948> last comms 14:05hrs; +5147.1365 +00021.8644
[13:07] <navracB> yes - I spotted that on the hdsdr waterfall
[13:07] <navracB> $$HAM-1,103,130200,+5157.2382,+00031.9591,00892*3202
[13:07] <navracB> is the last complete looking one i got
[13:08] <navracB> then died at $$HAM-1,104,130215,+5157.2784,+00
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[13:56] <DrLuke> any news on HAM-1?
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[13:56] <daveake> I see the chase car is trying different places to listen from
[14:00] <wiiguy> ham-1 died ?
[14:00] <daveake> It lost GPS on the way down
[14:01] <daveake> It regained it later but the signal was lost soon after, and no packets uploaded
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[14:03] <wiiguy> i see
[14:03] <wiiguy> was ham-1 carrying somethuign aswell ?
[14:04] <daveake> I don't know what was in the payload
[14:04] <daveake> Weighed 450g so I assume it had a camera
[14:04] <wiiguy> hmmm
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[14:11] <daveake> Just looking at the logtail ... latest sentence is $$HAM-1,105,130230,+5157.3143,+00032.0616,00536*2d8a
[14:11] <daveake> i.e 536 metres up
[14:11] <daveake> But not showing on map
[14:12] <Randomskk> did it parse ok?
[14:12] <daveake> yes
[14:12] <navracB> the descent was quite fast so it will be pretty close to that position
[14:12] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/testing-web/habitat/demo.html show up there?
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> lol eagle 6.1 still isnt fixed
[14:13] <Laurenceb_> "1 airwires"
[14:13] <Randomskk> lol that thing is hilariously broken for HAM-1 it seems
[14:13] <daveake> Yes there
[14:13] <Randomskk> ok
[14:13] <Randomskk> well
[14:13] <Randomskk> that's annoying
[14:13] hialt (d99b251b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:14] <navracB> the packet counter overflowed so it wentr back to zero so it didnt display
[14:14] <eroomde> + cosmis rays
[14:14] <eroomde> cosmic*
[14:14] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[14:14] <Randomskk> navracB: ah. yea.
[14:14] <Randomskk> that'd do it.
[14:14] <navracB> right - I have an appointment with a pub
[14:15] <Randomskk> enjoy :P
[14:15] <navracB> oh I will..
[14:15] <daveake> ping hialt
[14:16] <hialt> hi daveake
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[14:16] <daveake> What's your plan? Do you have the latest co-ords (#10 got it at 536m up)?
[14:17] <hialt> chase car zeroing in on last coords now
[14:17] <daveake> I think they're in the wrong place
[14:17] <daveake> The latest co-ords aren't showing on spacenear
[14:18] <hialt> I've switched computers and lost earlier chats, can you give me the last coords you have?
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[14:18] <daveake> Here's a map with directions from where they are to where I think they need to be https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=51.806583,0.34873&daddr=51.9552,0.5344&hl=en&sll=51.955268,0.534382&sspn=0.102406,0.222473&geocode=FXeBFgMdOlIFAA%3BFQDGGAMdgCcIAA&mra=ls&t=m&z=12
[14:18] <daveake> Last sentence was $$HAM-1,105,130230,+5157.3143,+00032.0616,00536*2d8
[14:18] dcds (0278fbbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[14:19] <hialt> I'll pass on to the car - brilliant, thanks
[14:19] <daveake> Last co-ords:
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.80760.331416893G0NZO
[14:19] <daveake> n/a52.00450.5239159992E0WVE G8KNN M0MDB NAVRAC
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.94240.51641619M0MDB NAVRAC
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.95160.52871362M0MDB
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.95400.53278922E0WVE G8KNN NAVRAC
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.95460.5334726G8KNN M0MDB
[14:19] <daveake> n/a51.95520.5344536
[14:19] <daveake> Sorry about the formatting
[14:20] <hialt> no probs
[14:20] Dutch-Mill (3e2da1d3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:20] <DrLuke> there totally should be another channel where all the strings get posted by a bot, all live
[14:20] <eroomde> DrLuke: that was what the distributed listener was
[14:20] <eroomde> one upon a time
[14:20] <daveake> Those last ones look strange - big jump from 0.3x to 0.5x
[14:21] <daveake> And the raw data for that last one is +5157.3143,+00032.0616
[14:22] <daveake> Randomskk Any chance of getting the lost position(s) onto the map?
[14:23] <Randomskk> not hugely easily
[14:24] <daveake> ok np
[14:24] <Randomskk> also I have to run right now and buy 75m of W103
[14:24] <Randomskk> all you could do is make up a new position with a new sentence ID, a correct checksum
[14:24] <daveake> You won't be running after you've picked it up :)
[14:24] <Randomskk> and hit http://habitat.habhub.org/manual_upload
[14:24] <Randomskk> bbl
[14:24] <daveake> bb
[14:24] <craag> Extrapolation for the habitat strings gives me 200m north of the predictor.
[14:25] <craag> (in the same field)
[14:25] <daveake> co-ords for that?
[14:25] <craag> 51.9564, 0.5364
[14:27] <daveake> Prety close to the last position then
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[14:33] <eroomde> in the final few hundred m, it is not unusual for the payload to swing a bit to the left of the path of the winds
[14:34] <eroomde> i.e., if you were looking precisely down wind, the payload would come overhead but swing slightly to the left of where you are expecting
[14:34] <daveake> Right, got spacenear updated with #10's last sentence
[14:34] Paradoxia (~evan@pool-71-191-215-133.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:34] <daveake> ping hialt
[14:35] <hialt> here
[14:35] <daveake> See spacenear
[14:35] <daveake> I got number10's last sentence, changed the ID number to make it work, and regenerated the CRC
[14:35] <daveake> Suggest the car moves there
[14:36] <hialt> wow - thanks!!! just passing on to chase car
[14:36] <daveake> 51.955238,0.53436
[14:36] <daveake> It'll be a little way NE of there
[14:36] <daveake> There were much closer earlier
[14:36] MoALTz (~no@host-92-2-115-101.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:36] <daveake> They
[14:37] <hialt> they were and merv thought he may have picked up a brief telemetry bleep
[14:37] <daveake> :)
[14:38] <eroomde> presumbly auto-predict has been busted?
[14:38] <craag> The road up by littley wood overlooks those fields, probably the best place to try rx from.
[14:40] <hialt> mobile coverage seems rubbish in that neck of the woods!
[14:40] <daveake> Often the case
[14:41] <daveake> Do they have a yagi?
[14:41] <daveake> If so, as soon as they think they can here rtty, stop somewhere safe and get the yagi out
[14:41] <eroomde> back when most mr and mrs farmer bt wifi modems were unsecured, you could usually get by in the countrside
[14:41] <eroomde> but tis not the case anymore
[14:41] <daveake> Of course if they have a sunroof ... :p
[14:41] <daveake> :D
[14:42] <eroomde> we had a little map of east anglia unsecured wifi points from all the chases
[14:42] <daveake> I have a wifi yagi for similar porpoises
[14:42] <eroomde> v useful for getting onto irc
[14:42] <daveake> :D
[14:43] <Darkside> hrm
[14:43] <Darkside> so the gps died?
[14:43] <daveake> Died and reincarnated
[14:43] <eroomde> cosmic ray
[14:43] <Darkside> you got the last packet?
[14:43] <daveake> No, number10 did
[14:44] <daveake> But they have a rollover bug on the ID field
[14:44] <Darkside> oh lol
[14:44] <daveake> So it looped round after sentence 999
[14:44] <daveake> So I changed number10's sentence to have ID 1001, then re-generated the CRC
[14:44] <Darkside> k
[14:45] <craag> ooo new packet.
[14:45] <daveake> Ah well done number10 :)
[14:45] <Darkside> i just got back from another walk around bath
[14:45] <Darkside> i'm about 10 min walk from shops
[14:45] <eroomde> maplin sure
[14:45] <daveake> You'll need a bath now with this humidity
[14:45] <eroomde> what about food?
[14:46] <craag> ~80m off my prediction :D
[14:46] <daveake> :)
[14:46] <Darkside> eroomde: 10 min from sainsburys
[14:46] <Darkside> the same to maplins actually
[14:46] <Darkside> apparently theres a better hobbyist electronics store down the road from ehre i am
[14:46] <Darkside> will have to go check it out
[14:46] <daveake> craag Yeah just a short turn east at the end
[14:47] <daveake> hialt You got that?
[14:47] <daveake> 51.955613, 0.53597 @ 90m
[14:47] <daveake> 80m
[14:48] <daveake> Ground level at that point is 87m, so sounds like it's on the ground
[14:48] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54A079C5.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:48] <eroomde> i think we have found a new landing confirmation indicator
[14:48] <daveake> lol
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD me?
[14:49] <daveake> Hence the name
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:49] <daveake> Lunar_Lander is now known as HAB_Landed
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> Chris McCandless died on this day 20 years ago in a scrap bus in the middle of Alaska
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:52] <daveake> Chase car halfway there now
[14:52] <Darkside> man, this town has so much history
[14:53] <Darkside> most of it occuring before my home country was founded
[14:53] <daveake> I was about to say something along those lines :)
[14:55] <Darkside> :P
[14:55] <Darkside> i find it very coo
[14:55] <Darkside> cool
[14:55] <daveake> Definitely one of the best towns to visit here
[14:56] <Darkside> i wish i was staying where i stayed last time
[14:56] <Darkside> just across the road from the abbey
[14:56] <Darkside> that place was awesome
[14:56] number10_M0MDB_C (~david10@ joined #highaltitude.
[14:58] <eroomde> Darkside: visit ox too
[14:59] <number10_M0MDB_C> hialt - have signal
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[15:01] <Darkside> eroomde: i might do so
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[15:02] <daveake> number10's on the map now
[15:02] <daveake> Quite close to the payload
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[15:04] <daveake> Right, we're off out. Looks like the payload should get recovered. Good luck :)
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[15:10] <Randomskk> woo
[15:10] <Randomskk> now the proud owner of a 100m reel of W103
[15:10] <Randomskk> it's heavy
[15:13] <Darkside> to all UK hams: your 70cm repeaters have weird offsets
[15:14] merv_chase (52848b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[15:14] <merv_chase> backon chat at last HAM-1 transmitting and heading for it
[15:15] <eroomde> Darkside, don't say that at immigration
[15:15] <eroomde> that's the kind of thing they try and temp you into say
[15:15] <Darkside> lol eroomde
[15:15] <eroomde> then as soon as they get a sign that you might be dodgy
[15:15] <eroomde> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mIF7tTOG0kE/UC5No6oD8LI/AAAAAAAABP4/ju2OdVmC40U/s500/umpboom.gif
[15:15] <Darkside> hhaha
[15:15] <Darkside> also customs here was a joke
[15:15] <Darkside> just walkrd straight through
[15:15] <Darkside> no checks, nothing
[15:15] <eroomde> no, yours is a joke!
[15:15] merv_chase (52848b12@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Client Quit
[15:15] <Darkside> in australia everything gets scanned
[15:16] <eroomde> 'it's a toe nail! all agriculture could be destoryed forever!!!!
[15:16] <Darkside> yep
[15:16] <Darkside> we protect our agricultre :P
[15:16] <eroomde> you didn't clean behind your ears? ANTHRAX!!!
[15:16] <Darkside> viciously
[15:16] <eroomde> etc
[15:16] <Darkside> hahh
[15:16] <Darkside> actually, ticking yes to the 'have you been on a farm' box getrs youthrough customs faster
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[15:17] <Darkside> oh wow
[15:17] <Darkside> i'm feeling pretty tired right now
[15:17] <Darkside> i guess it is 1am according to my body clock
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[15:22] <eroomde> have an ale and some cheese
[15:22] <eroomde> that always perks me up
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[15:24] number10 (~david10@ left irc:
[15:25] <Darkside> hmm
[15:25] <Darkside> looking for a UK amateur radio callbook
[15:25] <Darkside> or a callsign search
[15:25] <Randomskk> qrz.com?
[15:25] <Darkside> trying to find my supervisors callsign
[15:25] <Randomskk> ugh this N socket to PL259 is the worst thing ever
[15:25] <Randomskk> only in that it makes me sad that it exists
[15:25] <Darkside> i can't seem to do searches by name
[15:25] <Darkside> Randomskk: haha
[15:25] <Randomskk> more loss in this than in most of the cable run
[15:26] <Darkside> well
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[15:26] <Darkside> you need it to convert to the ham standard connector :P
[15:26] <Randomskk> sigh
[15:26] <Randomskk> wish my radio had N type
[15:27] <Darkside> mm, not many do..
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[15:40] <Darkside> do i have a tv licence
[15:40] <Darkside> i most definitely do
[15:40] <Darkside> of course
[15:40] <eroomde> probably not
[15:41] <Darkside> >_>
[15:41] <eroomde> i mean, probably
[15:41] <eroomde> typo
[15:41] <hialt> to anyone still watching, HAM-1 is just about found - it's still alive and car has been abandoned for walking across fields
[15:41] <Darkside> hialt: cool!
[15:42] <hialt> Very cool - hope camera still in one piece
[15:43] <Darkside> eroomde: what bus do you take that has wifi?
[15:43] <Darkside> because the national express to bath didn't have that :(
[15:43] <eroomde> oxford tube
[15:43] <eroomde> nat express coachs can be grim
[15:43] <Darkside> yeh
[15:43] <Darkside> leather seats
[15:44] <eroomde> i like oxford express so much because it seems to be the exception for bus services
[15:44] <Darkside> i'm not taking my supervisors advice on travel again
[15:44] <Darkside> taking the train next time
[15:44] <Darkside> as long as you book it in advance its cheap
[15:44] <Darkside> ish
[15:45] <NSS> who is all here for the WB8ELK flight?
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[15:55] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for missing another flight
[15:56] <eroomde> NSS: a copuple of people were going to try and listen here (UK) but not holding out great hope
[15:57] <Laurenceb__> oxford tube is horrible
[15:57] <Laurenceb__> as are most coaches
[15:58] <Laurenceb__> there no leg space and its slow
[15:58] <Laurenceb__> thats why i always use the train
[15:58] <eroomde> tube has leg space
[15:58] <eroomde> i alwys get the table seats
[15:58] <eroomde> as i go from the terminus at gg
[15:59] <eroomde> but yes if it's rush hour i will probs train
[15:59] <eroomde> but train is awful at rush hour
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[16:00] <SP9UOB> hi all
[16:00] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HAM-1 Launch Announcement for 10:30am Saturday 18th
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB
[16:02] <SP9UOB> anyone listening psk31 on 14.070Mhz?
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[16:04] <Darkside> heh
[16:05] <Darkside> the bbc iplayer volume control goes up to 11
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[16:09] <hialt> HAM-1 located and on initial inspection payload seems intact so hoping for pix!
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[16:14] <number10_M0MDB_C> HAM-1 recovered - if you didnt already know
[16:14] <hialt> Thanks to all for help!!
[16:14] <number10_M0MDB_C> wheat field
[16:14] <number10_M0MDB_C> thats ok
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[16:22] <NSS> Great a solar fl;are is happening,, http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/295129_307066919391609_282413030_n.jpg
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[16:28] <KT5TK-m> BLT-31 does heavy lifting
[16:28] <eroomde> true for hangover curing too
[16:28] <SP9UOB> KT5TK-m: Hi the psk beacon is exactly at 14.070 ?
[16:29] <SP9UOB> or 14.070 is the dial knob frequency ?
[16:29] <KT5TK-m> One side of the PSK31 dipole was wripped off
[16:29] <Darkside> oh damn
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[16:29] <DrLuke> how did that happen
[16:29] <KT5TK-m> 14.070 + afew Hz
[16:29] <Darkside> thats not going to radiate well
[16:30] <KT5TK-m> windy at launch and heavy payloads
[16:30] <KT5TK-m> I still have S9 here locally
[16:30] <Darkside> was there weight on the conductor?
[16:31] <SP9UOB> nothing here in Poland
[16:31] <KT5TK-m> yes ~20gramms
[16:32] <KT5TK-m> we just crossed 10000m
[16:32] <SP9UOB> KT5TK-m: is it transmitting continiously?
[16:32] <KT5TK-m> almost. every 26 sek
[16:33] <SP9UOB> nothing, here, still listening
[16:33] <KT5TK-m> 800 mw on 20m is of course not much
[16:33] <Darkside> and without one leg of the dipole its not going to radiate nicely
[16:33] <Darkside> line of sight propagation, sure
[16:33] <Darkside> but skywave might be a bit unlikely
[16:35] <KT5TK-m> I believe my websdr picks it up
[16:35] <KT5TK-m> just can't decode fldigi twice
[16:36] <KT5TK-m> tkrahn.dyndns.org:8901
[16:38] <Darkside> ill have a go
[16:38] <Darkside> i'm setup to decode off websdrs atm
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[16:38] <Darkside> hmm
[16:39] <Darkside> is there a flight profile for it?
[16:39] <Darkside> with psk?
[16:39] <KT5TK-m> Yes BLT-31 // KT5TK
[16:42] <Darkside> havent seen it oin your websdr yet
[16:44] <KT5TK-m> I can't check my websdr right now. If the signal is there, it's probably faint. On the low end of the PSK31 region
[16:44] <KT5TK-m> on the websdr it may be short below 14.070
[16:45] <KT5TK-m> scale is minimal off by a fe 100 Hz
[16:45] <KT5TK-m> few
[16:45] <Darkside> oh god
[16:45] <Darkside> its an AD9835 based psk beacon
[16:45] <Darkside> i've made one of those
[16:45] <KT5TK-m> yes
[16:45] <Darkside> the PSK output was 3KHz wide
[16:46] <Darkside> as it had no shaping whatsoever
[16:46] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb_
[16:46] <KT5TK-m> I have a PA with filter behind it. My signal doesn't look like more than 100 Hz wide
[16:47] <Darkside> what kind of filter
[16:47] <NSS> Bills got the video running http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wb8elk
[16:47] <Darkside> just a lowpass to remove the 50MHz master clock?
[16:47] <KT5TK-m> low pass
[16:47] <KT5TK-m> and all multiples
[16:47] <Darkside> the problem with BPSK from the AD9835 is the hard phase transitions
[16:47] <Darkside> they produce sidebands around the main carrier
[16:48] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/KWDPR.png
[16:48] <Darkside> like that
[16:48] <KT5TK-m> depends a bit on the power output of the AD chip
[16:48] <Darkside> not at all
[16:48] <Darkside> its entirely dependent on how the modulation works
[16:48] <Darkside> i mean, on HF you probably won't see the stuff more than a few hundred Hz out from the main carrier
[16:48] <Darkside> but they are there
[16:48] <KT5TK-m> We have also live 2.4 GHz video, but no streaming to the web, sri
[16:48] <Darkside> the first sideband is 10dB down
[16:49] <Darkside> so its not *too* horrible, but i wouldn't want to use it in a pileup
[16:49] <Darkside> that 800mw output power, was that measured?
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[16:49] <Darkside> because the AD9835 really doesn't put out much power
[16:49] <mattbrejza> the AD9835 has a phase offset register, so you could digitally provide a 'nice' transistion
[16:49] <Darkside> and it has a 100R output impedance
[16:49] <Darkside> mattbrejza: nope
[16:49] <Darkside> tried that
[16:49] <Darkside> you can't update the register fast enough
[16:50] <mattbrejza> datasheet lies
[16:50] <Darkside> i had a go at writing code toquickly update the phase from 0 through to 180 in smaller steps
[16:50] <Darkside> it just wouldn't update it fast enough.
[16:51] <Darkside> i did have a go going 0 -> 60 -> 120 -> 180
[16:51] <Darkside> and that did help
[16:51] <mattbrejza> it takes too long to respond or serial interface is too slow? seems a bit weird tbh
[16:51] <Darkside> mainly serial inteface
[16:51] <Darkside> i'm bitbanging it as fast as i can
[16:51] <mattbrejza> hardware serial?
[16:51] <Darkside> bitbanged SPI
[16:52] <Darkside> need to try harsware SPI
[16:52] <Darkside> but even with bitbanged SPI its still running at a few MHz
[16:52] <SP9UOB> Darkside: try to "modulate" amplitude (raised cosine) with Rset
[16:52] <mattbrejza> yea i was asking if you had tried hardware
[16:52] <Darkside> SP9UOB: i was wondering about that
[16:52] <mattbrejza> but it only needs 15bits transmitted, why is it so slow :/
[16:52] <Darkside> like, if you could use a digital potentiometer there
[16:52] <Darkside> mattbrejza: needs more than that to update
[16:52] <SP9UOB> there is an example with DAC in datasheet
[16:52] <Darkside> 32 bits
[16:53] <Darkside> SP9UOB: o rly?
[16:53] <Darkside> i missed that
[16:53] <mattbrejza> theres not a better IC?
[16:54] <Darkside> there are
[16:54] <Darkside> but they use a crapton more power
[16:54] <SP9UOB> mattbrejza: was, but is obsolete - ie AD7008
[16:54] <Darkside> hell, AD have DDSes with pulse shaping
[16:54] <Darkside> but they draw ridiculousamounts of power
[16:54] <SP9UOB> full I/Q DDS modulator
[16:54] <Darkside> like, they need heatsinks
[16:55] <SP9UOB> AD7008 has phase, frequency and amplitude registers
[16:55] <mattbrejza> what OP freq did you want?
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[16:55] <SP9UOB> and work to about 20 MHz output
[16:55] <Darkside> SP9UOB: nothing about using a DAC with reset in the datasheet
[16:55] <Darkside> i see how you could use refin to do it
[16:55] <mattbrejza> there is a parallel one, but only 25MHz clock
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[16:56] <Darkside> on that breakout refin is connected to refout though
[16:56] <SP9UOB> Darkside: check datasheet of AD9851/9850 or similar, im sure there is example
[16:57] <SP9UOB> Darkside: reset != Rset :-)
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> what output frequency do you use?
[16:57] <Darkside> ad9851 doesn't have a phase register though
[16:57] <Darkside> wait yes it does
[16:57] <SP9UOB> Rser - is resistor to "program" current of DAC
[16:57] <Darkside> but it doesn't have a phase *pin*
[16:57] <mattbrejza> ad9850?
[16:57] <SP9UOB> Darkside: it has
[16:57] <Darkside> which means if you want to switch phase you need to reprogram it
[16:57] <SP9UOB> Im 100% sure :-)
[16:58] <Darkside> which is a pain for higher symbol rates
[16:58] <Darkside> yes, i see it has a phase register
[16:58] <Darkside> but if i want to operate at 500 baud this isn't going to work very well
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> what tx frequency?
[16:58] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: HF band
[16:59] <SP9UOB> Darkside: fast SPI does the trick :-)
[16:59] <Darkside> 3-30MHz
[16:59] <Darkside> SP9UOB: mm
[16:59] <Darkside> i see the rset thing now
[16:59] <Darkside> i wonder if that'd work on the AD9835 too..
[16:59] <mattbrejza> what PA are you using? do you really need a nice sine output?
[16:59] <SP9UOB> so, You can set the amplitude
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[17:00] <Darkside> mattbrejza: it needs to be linear
[17:00] <SP9UOB> They has similar DAC's - so i think it will work
[17:00] <Darkside> SP9UOB: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/AN-423.pdf
[17:00] <Darkside> now thats cool
[17:00] <SP9UOB> btw: sorry for my horrible english - im not so goog in english grammar
[17:01] <Darkside> i think i need to try this..
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[17:01] <KT5TK-m> Darkside: that 800mw output power, was that measured? Yes at full Solar illumination
[17:01] <SP9UOB> Darkside: with mosfet?
[17:01] <mattbrejza> ive seen BPSK done into a class E amp, im not convinced it has to be linear for just BPSK
[17:02] <Darkside> mattbrejza: yeah, you can do it with BPSK, if you have your Class E amp duty cycle set just right
[17:02] <Darkside> i want to do QPSK
[17:02] <Darkside> and maybe 8-PSK
[17:02] <Darkside> SP9UOB: yeah, with a 2n7000
[17:03] <Darkside> i might give it a go on the AD9835 board i have
[17:03] <Darkside> i also have 3 boards with AD9851's on them
[17:03] <Darkside> so i can have a go with those too
[17:03] <SP9UOB> Darkside: currently im playing with WSPR for the HAB
[17:04] <mattbrejza> dont suppose anyones found a nice HF vector mixer? i think ive looked before
[17:04] <Darkside> bah, not interested in WSPR tbh
[17:04] <Darkside> too strict a protocol
[17:04] <SP9UOB> no linear amp, there is infrastructure to listen over the world :-)
[17:04] <Darkside> yeah, but you can't send coordinates in it
[17:04] <SP9UOB> ideal for transatlantic flight
[17:05] <SP9UOB> Darkside: QTH locator is good enough over the ocean :-)
[17:05] <Darkside> tbh i'd prefer to use slow RTTY
[17:05] <Darkside> like, *really* slow rtty, <10 baud
[17:05] <SP9UOB> about 2 kilometers accurancy
[17:05] <Darkside> that'll get through just as well
[17:06] <SP9UOB> ok, but on WSPR there are listeners :-)
[17:06] <Darkside> i do like the amp used on the balloon
[17:06] <Darkside> i might make one of those
[17:06] <SP9UOB> http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=50&findcall=sp9uob&findreporter=&sort=date
[17:06] <Darkside> yeah i know about the wspr stuff
[17:06] <Darkside> why not use JT65 instead
[17:07] <Darkside> you can get more custom data through on that
[17:07] <mattbrejza> other option is to use DAC + FPGA, then you can do whatever you want
[17:07] <Darkside> mattbrejza: at a cost of complexity and power
[17:07] <mattbrejza> well those DDS ICs wernt very power efficient
[17:08] <mattbrejza> could probably get away wit ha CPLD, low res DAC
[17:08] <KT5TK-m> BLT-31 is still the strongest signal in the PSK range here
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[17:09] <Darkside> mattbrejza: the AD9834 is pretty good
[17:09] <Darkside> of couse with a DDS you;re limited to M/FSK and PSK modes
[17:09] <Darkside> with a DAC, you do whatever the hell you want
[17:09] <mattbrejza> i suppose if you only want PSK and dont mind sidebands its fine
[17:09] <Darkside> and i wouldn't use a fast dac and FPGA
[17:09] <Darkside> i'd do a audio frequency dac, and a tayloe mixer
[17:09] <mattbrejza> there are much better ways to do HF FSK though
[17:10] <ze_> Hi, noob balloon tracking question - on the nearspace.us tracker, what is the difference between the two range circles that are centered on the balloon?
[17:10] <Darkside> ze_: blue is radio horizon
[17:10] <Darkside> green is 5 degree horizon
[17:10] <ze_> thanks
[17:10] <Darkside> mattbrejza: howso?
[17:10] <mattbrejza> crystal @ fout -> class E PA
[17:10] <mattbrejza> then crystal pull
[17:10] <Darkside> ok that doesnt work for me
[17:11] <Darkside> as i want a frequency agile transmitter
[17:11] <mattbrejza> yea i guessed so
[17:11] <mattbrejza> but it is very simple and power efficent
[17:11] <Darkside> i'm playing around with a constant link system
[17:11] <Darkside> where i hop up and down the amateur bands depending on conditions
[17:11] <mattbrejza> but you dont need a full DDS for FSK, sqaure wave will do
[17:12] <SP9UOB> whats the rtty settings for wb8elk ?
[17:12] <SP9UOB> 100 baud - ok, shift? bits ?
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[17:13] <SP9UOB> 110 baud
[17:14] <Darkside> mattbrejza: you do if you don't want to have to filter out harmonics
[17:14] <mattbrejza> class E amp
[17:14] <chaoshax> Did you guys manage to find Ham-1?
[17:14] <chaoshax> I guess you are in the pub now.
[17:14] <Darkside> mattbrejza: class E amps aren't frequency agile
[17:14] <mattbrejza> oh true
[17:14] <mattbrejza> hm then
[17:14] <Darkside> nowhere near so
[17:14] <mattbrejza> nm*
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[17:14] <Darkside> i'll probably have to use a class C amp
[17:14] <Darkside> i think they're ok for QPSK?
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[17:15] <mattbrejza> if theyre linear then yea
[17:15] <Darkside> oh wait
[17:15] <Darkside> class C won't be linear eough for QPSK
[17:15] <Darkside> BER goes up
[17:16] <Darkside> http://www.sm0vpo.com:800/tx/qrp-hf1.htm
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[17:16] <mattbrejza> you could pre-distort...
[17:16] <Darkside> this is a nice little linear amp though
[17:16] <Darkside> i do like that
[17:16] <mattbrejza> probably not the best solution
[17:17] <mattbrejza> i suppose at HF there are more then enough HAM examples to choose from
[17:17] <Darkside> yep
[17:17] <Darkside> i have made a class-e amo before
[17:17] <Darkside> did one for 40m, got the efficiency up to 95%
[17:18] <Darkside> which i was pretty happy with lol
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[17:18] Nick change: hextic_ -> hextic
[17:18] <mattbrejza> i thought their max theoretical efficiency was less then 95%
[17:19] <Darkside> i thought it was higher than 95% actually
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[17:19] <mattbrejza> i dont have the text book anymore so i cant check
[17:20] <SP9UOB> Darkside: 2n7000 + 4 bits R/2R ladder should do the trick (raised cosine on bpsk)
[17:20] <Darkside> SP9UOB: i was thinking of using the PWM output on the arduino plus a filter
[17:21] <Darkside> but yeah, a ladder would be better
[17:21] <Darkside> or i could put a bloody DAC0800 in there :P
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[17:21] <SP9UOB> :-)
[17:21] <Darkside> there's a blast from the past, eh :P
[17:21] <Darkside> wire it up to a port on the AVR
[17:21] <Darkside> away you go
[17:22] <Darkside> also means ou can do port writes
[17:22] <Darkside> which are way faster than pin writes
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[17:23] <K5mwg> Watching the kt5tk balloon launch on space near.us/tracker...... Can anyone tell me what the blues and green circles represent? Blue = LOS? And the green one?
[17:24] <Darkside> ..
[17:24] <Darkside> blue = radio horizon
[17:24] <Darkside> green = 5 degree altitude
[17:24] <Darkside> elevation*
[17:25] <K5mwg> Significance of 5 degree circle? Sorry for the noob question.
[17:25] <Randomskk> more likely to get it within 5 degrees than 0
[17:25] <Darkside> freshnel zone with the horizon?
[17:25] <Darkside> i dunno
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[17:29] <mattbrejza> ok class E is theoretically 100% efficient
[17:29] <Darkside> ok
[17:29] <Darkside> it depends on teh duty cycle i think
[17:29] <Darkside> as the duty cycle approaches 0% the efficiency approaches 100%
[17:29] <mattbrejza> perhaps
[17:30] <mattbrejza> and oc switching losses and so on
[17:30] <Darkside> mm
[17:30] <KT5TK-m> starts raining here. 2.4 GHz video almost gone.
[17:30] <Darkside> its annoyingly hard to drive many fets at HF
[17:30] <Darkside> my first try was with an IRF510
[17:31] <Darkside> but i quickly realised the input capacitance was going to be too high
[17:31] <Darkside> ended up using 2x 2N7000's in parallel
[17:31] <Darkside> that gave me about 4W iirc
[17:31] <Darkside> maybe it was 2W, i dunno
[17:31] <KT5TK-m> Looks like BLT-31 is almost comming back to launch site
[17:32] <mattbrejza> theres 2N7002 too, not sure on the differene
[17:33] <Darkside> higher pulsed drain current it seems
[17:33] <Darkside> but less power dissipation
[17:34] <Darkside> i dunno, i had a heap of 2n7000s
[17:34] <Darkside> not really the best reason for using them
[17:35] <Darkside> if i do it again i'll look around for some FETS with a lower input capacitance
[17:35] <Darkside> i'm sure something better is available
[17:36] <mattbrejza> well have fun with HF, by next transmitter (if i get round to it) will use the CC1190 PA
[17:36] <mattbrejza> (868MHz 500mW)
[17:38] <Darkside> hehe
[17:38] <Darkside> we don't have that band in australia
[17:38] <SP9UOB> Darkside: sure: try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ziYqjMQGEQ
[17:38] <mattbrejza> its ISM here
[17:38] <mattbrejza> that IC covers 850-950 mind you
[17:38] <Darkside> mm
[17:39] <Darkside> still,i'm sticking to the amateur bands
[17:39] <Darkside> SP9UOB: haha
[17:39] <SP9UOB> Darkside: little overkill but fast and durable :-)
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[17:40] <Darkside> inpt capacitance is a bit high..
[17:40] <SP9UOB> 1-3 Watts input 1300W output... LINEAR :-)
[17:40] <Darkside> might be to do with the gate being the size of my fingernail
[17:40] <Darkside> :P
[17:40] <jcoxon> bill launched yet?
[17:41] <SP9UOB> and not so expensive - about $200
[17:41] <SP9UOB> jcoxon: he is filling now
[17:42] <Darkside> oh man
[17:42] <Darkside> we have one of those sig-gens at uni
[17:42] <jcoxon> Darkside, you in bath
[17:42] <Darkside> yeah
[17:42] <Darkside> lol
[17:42] <jcoxon> and KT5TK is still in the air?
[17:42] <Darkside> they short the output
[17:42] <Darkside> then show other mismatches
[17:42] Action: jcoxon is on mobile internetz
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[17:45] <SP9UOB> jcoxon: whats the RTTY settings for wb8elk ?
[17:45] <SP9UOB> jcoxon: 110 baud, shift? Bits?
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[17:46] <KT5TK-m> we're still ascending. PSK31 works great!
[17:47] <SP9UOB> KT5TK-m: nothing here :-(
[17:47] <jcoxon> SP9UOB, you'll have to look on arhab.org
[17:47] <KT5TK-m> anything to copy on my websdr?
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[17:48] <jcoxon> KT5TK-m, need more listeners!
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[17:49] <KT5TK-m> many don't know about habitat here
[17:50] <KT5TK-m> at least I can copy the psk beacon very well here
[17:50] <SP9UOB> jcoxon: no info about that :-(
[17:51] <jcoxon> SP9UOB, nothing in the email
[17:51] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi should autoconfig it
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[17:52] <SP9UOB> jcoxon: it wont compile on my linux :-(
[17:52] <ze_> KT5TK-m, what dial frequency and audio frequency is it on? We're in San Antonio and don't seem to see it.
[17:52] <KT5TK-m> jcoxon: we have plenty listeners on aprs though
[17:52] <SP9UOB> ok, i must go to my car for a laptop with windows :-)
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[17:53] <KT5TK-m> ze_: on the lower end of the psk range
[17:54] <KT5TK-m> I have it at 14.06920 MHz +1500 Hz
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[17:55] <Darkside> so 14070.7
[17:55] <jcoxon> KT5TK-m, aprs is no fun
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[17:57] <jcoxon> :-D
[17:57] <Darkside> KT5TK-m: can you sell me when you see it transmit a PSK packet
[17:57] <Darkside> i haven't seen anything on your websdr yet
[17:57] <KT5TK-m> sorry correction: 14.06920 MHz +1200 Hz
[17:58] <Darkside> still havent seen it there
[17:58] <KT5TK-m> the websdr dial is a bit off. you need to luok just below 14.07 MHz
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[17:59] <Darkside> i'm tuned to 14069
[17:59] <Darkside> and haven't seen it yet
[18:00] <ze_> I think I can see it just barely in the waterfall but I'm not able to actually copy anything
[18:00] <Darkside> i think i just spotted it too
[18:00] <Darkside> but yeah, its not decodable
[18:00] <KT5TK-m> got 100000 ft with all that heavy lift. Yeah!
[18:01] <Darkside> 450g isn't heavy :P
[18:01] <Darkside> wait
[18:01] <Darkside> yours is heavier than that
[18:01] <KT5TK-m> we have 12 pounds
[18:01] <Darkside> hah
[18:01] <Darkside> jeez
[18:01] <Darkside> that breaches the weight limit here
[18:02] <Darkside> we have to stay below 4kg
[18:02] <Darkside> 8.8 pounds
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[18:03] <KT5TK-m> Hwoyee 1600 balloons are great!
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[18:21] <KT5TK-m> Heavy rain. Balloon droping like a stone. PSK lost. APRS still going.
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[18:28] <merv> major success today HAM-1 retrieved from a big corn field just north of Braintree thanks to Daves handheld GPS. We got to140,900 feet and photos of Steif teddy with curvature of Earth look good. new world record I understand.
[18:28] <Upuiphone> congrats
[18:29] <Darkside> amateur record for cameras maybe
[18:29] <Upuiphone> highest with a camera ?
[18:29] <Darkside> yeah
[18:29] <Darkside> unless anyone has done anything with ZPs
[18:29] <Upuiphone> still impressive
[18:29] <Darkside> yep
[18:29] <Upuiphone> See Darkside H2 is where its at
[18:30] <Darkside> i'd like to know what happens with He tho
[18:30] <merv> yes Dave was miffed because we broke his recored and he located it
[18:30] <Upuiphone> it doesnt go as high
[18:30] <Upuiphone> daveake ?
[18:30] <Darkside> there haven't been as many experients with helium and the same launch parameters though
[18:31] <Darkside> we tried and stuffed it up, got to 38km and floated
[18:31] <Darkside> we need to try again with a bit more gas
[18:31] <Upuiphone> there is a sweet spot
[18:31] <Darkside> i'm wondering if its more hwoyee's quality control
[18:32] <Upuiphone> likely
[18:32] <Darkside> that and weather
[18:32] <Upuiphone> weather doesnt seem
[18:32] <Darkside> mm?
[18:32] <Darkside> nothing to do with latitude?
[18:32] <Upuiphone> to play a part
[18:32] <Darkside> ok
[18:33] <Darkside> whats the difference in lift between H2 and He?
[18:33] <Upuiphone> pava was launched in heavy wind and rain
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> i think weather will play a part
[18:33] <Darkside> Upuiphone: i mean high altitude stuff
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> you want to look at scale heights
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> also the H2 should only give you a few hundered m from theory
[18:33] <Darkside> air density at different areas
[18:33] <Upuiphone> im not so sure
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> it seems to protect the envelope
[18:33] <merv> I think we were very lucky and on our first flight to
[18:34] <Upuiphone> back later
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[18:34] <Darkside> again, we need to try replicating the launch params with helium in australia
[18:34] <merv> we have learnt so much from thislaunch
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> merv: what was the payload mass?
[18:34] <Darkside> and see if we get >40km
[18:34] <costyn> Upu: ping
[18:34] <Darkside> costyn: he's on a train
[18:34] <costyn> Upu: any news on the chasetracker iphone app?
[18:34] <costyn> Darkside: ah
[18:35] <merv> 450grams howee 1600 and 3cumtr hydrogen
[18:35] <costyn> anybody recently installed the iphone chase car tracker app?
[18:36] Nick change: number10_M0MDB -> number10
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: H2 seems to provide a large performance boost
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> which cant be explained by the lower density
[18:37] <Darkside> hrm
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> so I'm wondering if there is a chemical effect
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> to protect the envelope
[18:37] <Darkside> leakage through the latex?
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> look at the transatlantic floaters
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> yes
[18:37] <number10> fancy nice meeting you lot today merv, and helping break my camera record ;)
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> and protection from ozone maybe
[18:37] <number10> -fancy
[18:37] <Darkside> i dunno about that
[18:37] <Darkside> but hydrogen should leak through the latex less than helium
[18:37] <SamSilver_> bill is on his way up
[18:37] <SamSilver_> launch
[18:37] <Darkside> H2 is bigger than He..
[18:38] <merv> good to meet you too and thanks for all your help
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> true
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> but thats not going to effect burst
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> itll just move the sweet spot a little
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> also at altitude leakage is very small
[18:38] <Darkside> mm
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> due to the huge surface area
[18:38] <Darkside> eh?
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> from the transatlantic floater results I suspect it protects the envelope
[18:38] <Darkside> ithought since the latex is thinner
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> heh
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> maybe it cancles out
[18:39] <Darkside> mm
[18:39] <Darkside> but again, there haven't been as many altitude attemps using helium
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> but still itll just effect the sweet pot
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> not the burst
[18:39] <Darkside> we haven;'t had a chance to do it yet
[18:39] <Darkside> all our 1600g hwoyee launches have been camera launches
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> im betting it protects the envelope
[18:40] <Darkside> and heavy ones
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> merv: what was the payload mass?
[18:40] <Darkside> the last launches we did with the 1600gs did go very high
[18:40] <Darkside> well, higher than what we're used to
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[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> btw, it's 80 years since professor piccard's second stratosphere flight
[18:44] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: are you going to listen in tommorow to my balloon? it's not very far away from you
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> I can try
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> damn I can't try
[18:44] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: which city are you again?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> the radio is in the laboratory
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> Osnabrück
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[18:45] <Laurenceb_> is Bill supposed to be launching?
[18:45] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: only about 150km from you
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> ooh i see it
[18:45] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: so too bad :(
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[18:46] <SP9UOB> costyn: where do You launch ?
[18:46] <costyn> SP9UOB: Close to Arnhem, Renckum
[18:46] <costyn> (Netherlands)
[18:46] <SP9UOB> freq?
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> oops
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> KT5TK died
[18:48] <Darkside> psk died onburst
[18:48] <Darkside> but aprs is still going
[18:48] <Darkside> or was, not sure if its landed
[18:48] <Darkside> havent been watching
[18:49] <number10> did you see any psk31 Darkside
[18:49] <Darkside> no
[18:49] <Darkside> but i wasnt looking at any european sdrs
[18:49] <Darkside> just the local texas one
[18:49] <SP9UOB> I try to listen here with 2 antennas (horiz ant vert) and nothing heard
[18:50] <Darkside> number10: half the antenna broke off
[18:50] <number10> ah ok
[18:50] <number10> oh - not good
[18:50] <Darkside> so its running into a badly mismatched antenna, with a likely very weird radiation pattern
[18:50] <costyn> SP9UOB: are you on the mailing list ? I posted the details there
[18:50] <SP9UOB> wb8elk's - also
[18:50] <SP9UOB> :-(
[18:50] <costyn> SP9UOB: and they should be on the spacenear.us/tracker tommorow
[18:50] <Darkside> so i wouldn't expect skywave
[18:50] <SP9UOB> costyn: UKHAS? Yes
[18:51] <SP9UOB> costyn: ok i'll try to listen
[18:52] <SP9UOB> anyone receiving WB8ELK ?
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[18:55] <WillDMobile> Hi all. Any flights this weekend?
[18:55] <Darkside> there was one in the uk today
[18:55] <Darkside> and one in europe somewhere tomorro
[18:55] <chaoshax> There's one going on
[18:56] <WillDMobile> Go ok? Just been disconnected for a while
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[18:56] <chaoshax> WB8ELK2 is still going.
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[19:01] <costyn> Darkside: yep, doing mine tommorow in Netherlands :)
[19:01] <Darkside> noice
[19:02] <Darkside> might hop on the dokkum globaltuner
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[19:02] <costyn> Darkside: kewl
[19:02] <costyn> should be albe to hear it just fine there
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[19:08] <NSS> Anyone here watching Bills Flight?
[19:08] <Darkside> not tracking it
[19:09] <Darkside> hmm
[19:09] <Darkside> ill get live predictions going for it
[19:10] <NSS> he had a u stream chat room going but after the streaming video went away so did everyone in the chat room.
[19:10] <costyn> SP9UOB: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/hUfHZApz6d0/xg8lGpBm_cIJ
[19:11] <Darkside> ok, gfs files are downloading
[19:11] <Darkside> predictions should start soon
[19:13] <bgelb> listening in CA, but no copy
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[19:14] <Darkside> hrm
[19:14] <Darkside> yeah i dont think propagation is quite there for cali to alabama
[19:15] <Darkside> also i dont think its putting out much power
[19:16] <number10> NSS: is it one balloon or two that Bill is sending up?
[19:17] <SP9UOB> costyn: ok, there is loads of QRM near 434.650 here, but i try to listen
[19:17] <NSS> One right now, but his e mail said he may do another this evening.
[19:17] <Darkside> i can hear it on the atlanda websdr
[19:17] <SP9UOB> Darkside: what dial? 14.104 ?
[19:17] <Darkside> not sure how often it transmits
[19:17] <number10> is the first one just 2m
[19:17] <NSS> with the contest going on not too mny are hearing it.
[19:17] <Darkside> i'm on 14103
[19:18] <Darkside> atlanta is within its footprint atm
[19:18] <Darkside> dammit
[19:18] <NSS> The 20meter frequency is best received on 14.103 MHz USB (waterfall audio tone of 1600 hz). DominoEX16 and 110 baud ASCII RTTY Using dl-FLdigi use the callsign of WB8ELK2 Two meter is on 144.34 MHz: dl-FLdigi callsign of WB8ELK DominoEX22 and 300 baud RTTY APRS is on 144.39 callsign: WB8ELK-11 every 2 minutes.
[19:18] <Darkside> i keep missing it
[19:18] <SP9UOB> and audio at 2khZ?
[19:18] <Darkside> actually o
[19:18] <Darkside> its slightly off
[19:18] <Darkside> urgh
[19:18] <Darkside> every 2 minutes, dammit
[19:19] <Darkside> ill try on the next pass..
[19:19] <Darkside> well, next TX
[19:19] <Darkside> yep
[19:19] <Darkside> theres a contester right on top of it
[19:19] <Darkside> 2:18:00,3440.03,-08601.89,10994,11,9.62,33*6D
[19:19] <NSS> I have 5 RTTY stations in my passband!
[19:19] <Darkside> thats all i caught last tx, didnt have dominoex there in time
[19:19] <Darkside> yeah i'm seeing quite a few NSS
[19:19] <Darkside> theres a strong sucker right on top of where it is
[19:20] <number10> 110 baud 8n1?
[19:20] <Darkside> here it oes
[19:20] <Darkside> its abotu to tx
[19:20] <NSS> I think so.
[19:20] <Darkside> ffs
[19:20] <Darkside> it doesn't lock on in time
[19:20] <SP9UOB> 300 baud RTTY ???
[19:20] <Darkside> no
[19:20] <Darkside> 110 baud
[19:20] <NSS> 110
[19:20] <SP9UOB> 200 hz shift 8n1 right ?
[19:20] <NSS> yup
[19:21] <Darkside> yeah the dominoex decoder doesn't get in fast enough
[19:21] <Darkside> it can't lock on
[19:21] <Darkside> 15 seconds
[19:21] <NSS> just too much stuff in the passband
[19:22] <Darkside> so it does CW, then dominoex16, then rtty
[19:22] <Darkside> theres the CW
[19:22] <Darkside> dominoex.
[19:22] <Darkside> and the rtty
[19:22] <Darkside> $$WB8ELK,53,19:22:00,3440.20,-08555.81,11815,10,9.50,30*67
[19:22] <Darkside> goddamnit
[19:23] <Darkside> one byte off
[19:23] <Darkside> because of the rtty station right on top of it
[19:23] <SP9UOB> DarksideKA1C 599 433 433 KA1C BK
[19:23] <SP9UOB> on top
[19:23] <Darkside> tbh i'd put it right at the top of the band and damn the bandplan
[19:24] <SP9UOB> contest
[19:24] <Darkside> yeah
[19:24] <Darkside> again
[19:24] <Darkside> i'd keep it out of the daa areas
[19:24] <Darkside> and stuff the bandplan
[19:25] <SP9UOB> no chanse to receive
[19:26] <SP9UOB> Darkside: on 10m im transmitting in the satelite segment
[19:26] <Darkside> yeah it keeps getting wiped out by contesters
[19:26] <SP9UOB> so HAB is almost a satelite '=_
[19:26] <SP9UOB> :-)
[19:26] <Darkside> hehe
[19:27] <Darkside> just check you aren't running near any sat uplink or downlink freqs
[19:27] <Darkside> like AO7 or whatever it is that has a 10m downlink
[19:27] <Darkside> oh wait, those are transponder based aren't they..
[19:27] <SP9UOB> Darkside: at teh moment theres no satalites working at 29 MHz
[19:28] <Darkside> $$WB8ELK2,561Q&28:00,3441.21,-08546.55,12741,11,9.32,24*6E
[19:28] <Darkside> dammit
[19:37] <NSS> I just can't hear anything. UG!
[19:38] <NSS> Looks like the only ones hearing it at all are the line of sight people.
[19:38] <Darkside> NSS: try the atlanta websdr
[19:39] <Darkside> http://w4ax.com/
[19:39] <Darkside> the problem is contesters are getting in and screwing up decodes
[19:40] <NSS> yup
[19:40] <NSS> Glad my payload is on 30 meters
[19:42] <Darkside> yeah, that band is dead
[19:42] <Darkside> at least, it always is when i look
[19:43] <Darkside> you coudl use 20m just fine, just go right to the top end
[19:43] <Darkside> away from everyone else
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[19:43] <Darkside> it means you violate the bandplan, but thebandplans are just a suggestion...
[19:44] <NSS> Gentlemen's Agreement,,, and no one has ever said I was a gentleman he he he
[19:45] <Darkside> if i end up not pulse shaping my BPSK transmitter, i won't be using it in in the standard PSK segment
[19:45] <Darkside> as i'll piss everyone else off
[19:45] <Upu> evening
[19:45] <Darkside> better to put it a quiet area of the band, which usauly means the top end
[19:45] <Darkside> keep it 3khz or so below the top end of the band
[19:45] <Darkside> hi Upu
[19:45] <NSS> total top as in14,345?
[19:45] <Upu> sorry was on the train before and nearly missed my station
[19:45] <Darkside> NSS: yeah
[19:46] <Darkside> or whatever it is in your country
[19:46] <Upu> impressive altitude from HAM-1
[19:46] <Darkside> 14350 in australia iirc
[19:46] <costyn> Upu: nevermind the chasetracker
[19:46] <Upu> evening costyn
[19:46] <Upu> his internet is broken
[19:46] <costyn> Upu: i had a old bt gps mouse lying around
[19:46] <Upu> can't get in touch with him
[19:46] <Upu> ok
[19:47] <costyn> Upu: just got it working with dl-fldigi
[19:47] <costyn> was really easy :)
[19:47] <Upu> it is :)
[19:47] <Upu> if you have enough USB ports
[19:47] <costyn> pd3em said that it was what he uses
[19:47] <Upu> which I don't
[19:47] <costyn> hehe
[19:47] <costyn> usb hub?
[19:47] <Upu> gets messy in the car
[19:47] <costyn> i have a 4-port one for my equally usb-port deprived macbook air
[19:48] <costyn> yes, but it's going to get messy anyways :)
[19:48] <Upu> true
[19:48] <Darkside> NSS: so yeah, i'd put it on 14347
[19:48] <Darkside> or something like that
[19:48] <Darkside> well out of the way
[19:48] <costyn> when do chase cars dissapear off the map?
[19:48] Nick change: Burn_ -> Burn_afk
[19:48] <Darkside> means most high Q antennas for 20m dx won't work up there well :P
[19:48] <NSS> Or 30 meters if you have it ns then nothing to worry about
[19:48] <costyn> i renamed mine and the old one and the new one are still there :)
[19:48] <Darkside> as they're mostly tuned for 14100
[19:48] <Darkside> NSS: i'm thinking for a frequency hopping transmitter
[19:49] <Darkside> not on a balloon
[19:49] <NSS> ahhh?
[19:49] <Upu> got enough chase cars on the map ?
[19:49] <Darkside> something i'm playing with at uni
[19:49] <Darkside> as a means of getting experimental data back from a remote sensor outpost
[19:49] <costyn> Upu: sowwy
[19:50] <Darkside> i want to setup a beacon that hops up and down the bands depending on tiem of day
[19:50] <gonzo__mob> you want a chirpsounder
[19:51] <Upu> so you're still launching tomorrow costyn ?
[19:51] <Darkside> gonzo__mob: would be nic eot pair this with one
[19:51] <Darkside> but that won't happen
[19:51] <Darkside> so i'll have to go from models, and known data
[19:51] <Darkside> i mean, ideally i'd just use ALE for this
[19:52] <Darkside> have a set number of channels, have them scan over them, do sounding automatically
[19:52] <costyn> Upu: yes I am
[19:52] <Darkside> and i might be able to do that eventually, once i pair the beacon with a receiver.
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[19:52] <costyn> Upu: putting everything on my packing list into crates now
[19:52] <gonzo__mob> i had s couple of 1kw
[19:52] <Upu> we'll see if I can receive it
[19:52] <Darkside> but at the moment it's just a free-standing beacon
[19:52] <costyn> Upu: cool thanks
[19:52] <Darkside> gonzo__mob: you had an ionosonde?
[19:53] <gonzo__mob> i hate phone kbds
[19:53] <Darkside> also, its kind of hard to get permission to run one :P
[19:53] <BrainDamage> bah, I read it as free standing bacon, then reread, and was disappointed
[19:53] <SP9UOB> Gotcha ! :-) $$WB8ELK2,68,19:52:00,3441.41,-08522.30,16623,11,8.70,14*6C
[19:53] <gonzo__mob> rrr a coulple of setz
[19:53] <Darkside> gonzo__mob: nice
[19:53] <Darkside> hrmm
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool SP9UOB
[19:54] <Darkside> technically i could use this system to do oblique sounding..
[19:54] <Darkside> maybe..
[19:54] Nick change: Burn_afk -> Burn_
[19:54] <gonzo__mob> there is no licence to cover chirp tx
[19:54] <Darkside> something to think about though
[19:55] <Darkside> gonzo__mob: yeah, thats the problem.
[19:55] <Darkside> only governments get to do it
[19:55] <gonzo__mob> no specific licencd anywY
[19:55] <Darkside> yeah
[19:55] <Darkside> so i'm assuming i don't have access to any of that
[19:55] <gonzo__mob> yep tbats about it
[19:56] <Darkside> so yeah, i'll just allocate a number of channnels, and have it work through them
[19:56] <gonzo__mob> prob with a chirp yx is the wide band ant
[19:56] <Darkside> terminated antenna
[19:57] <gonzo__mob> there was a set of omni's for it
[19:57] <Darkside> like a travelling wave something
[19:57] <gonzo__mob> nit needed a hige mast to rog
[19:57] <gonzo__mob> rig
[19:57] <Darkside> in australia they use these antennas that look like a hills hoise clothesline
[19:58] <Darkside> http://www.environment.gov.au/soe/2001/publications/theme-reports/heritage/images/ncph008.jpg
[19:58] <Darkside> they look kind of like that
[19:58] <gonzo__mob> these were a conical wire rope thing
[19:58] <Darkside> this is for vertical sounding btw
[19:59] <Darkside> for oblique i asume they use some kind of loaded vertical
[19:59] <LazyLeopard> Heh, Darkside. I've got one a bit like that...
[19:59] <gonzo__mob> will look out pics later
[19:59] <Darkside> hell, you could probably pull some trick where you adjust the antenna tuning as you sweep up in frequency
[20:00] <SP9UOB> WB8ELK2
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Time: 2012-08-18 19:58:00
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Position: 34.681,-85.33433
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Altitude: 17590 m
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Temperature: 13C
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Custom: 8.64
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Satellites: 10
[20:00] <SP9UOB> Receivers: KM6NN, SP9UOB
[20:00] <SP9UOB> :-)
[20:00] <Darkside> spam
[20:00] <Darkside> :P
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[20:02] <costyn> damn I so have the feeling I am going to forget stuff
[20:02] <costyn> i've already found stuff, like lithium AA's which weren't on the list but would've succked to not have tommorow :)
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[20:04] <NSS> bills signal is getting better
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[20:27] Action: costyn is off... be back online tommorow at launch site :)
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[20:49] <number10> well done SP9UOB, did you receive that at home
[20:52] <SP9UOB> number10: yup, but now isnt decodable, loads of QSB
[20:52] <Upu> thats an impressive range
[20:53] <Darkside> SP9UOB: oh? you got it DX?
[20:53] <Darkside> or did you use the websdr
[20:54] <SP9UOB> DX at domino - RTTY wasnt decodable
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> YAY
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> oh btw Darkside
[20:55] <number10> well don - what was frequency?
[20:55] <number10> +e
[20:55] <SP9UOB> horizontal delta loop works better than vertical
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> are the energizer ultimate lithium really the best batteries in terms of energy density?
[20:56] <SP9UOB> dial: 14.103 USB
[20:56] <SP9UOB> audio centre: 1642 Hz
[20:57] <number10> thanks
[20:57] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: i think there are some that are better
[20:57] <Darkside> but cost goes p
[20:57] <Darkside> Saft do some pretty crazy backup batteries
[20:58] <Darkside> http://www.saftbatteries.com/Produit_LS_cell_range_303_6/Language/en-US/Default.aspx
[20:58] <Darkside> check some of these out
[20:58] <Darkside> hmm
[20:58] <Darkside> lemme calculate energy density
[20:59] <Darkside> so energizer lithium AAs are 0.31WHr/gram
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:01] <Darkside> saft do some interesting cells
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> I discovered them by chance on friday
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> which is a bit funny because of the name
[21:01] <Darkside> ooh ok saft cells don't like cold
[21:01] <Darkside> their capacity drops at -40
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> saft is also german for juice and we also say that batteries give juice
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:01] <Darkside> lets compare room temp capacity
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:02] <Darkside> also, capacity changes with current draw on the saft cells
[21:02] <Darkside> they're designed for backup purposes
[21:02] <Darkside> so hardly any current draw
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:02] <Darkside> anyway, lets way you're drawing 100mA continuous
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:02] <Darkside> which is realistic
[21:02] <Darkside> thats 13Ah capacity
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> I think daveake said I am drawing 160 or so
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:02] <Darkside> 0.52WHr/gram
[21:03] <Darkside> but at -40 degrees that drops to 3Ah
[21:03] <Darkside> but at 3V
[21:03] <SP9UOB> is wb8elk still transmitting on 20m ?
[21:03] <Darkside> so it still has double the capacity of the energizers
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> cool Darkside :)
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[21:05] <Darkside> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SAFT-LS33600-BATTERY-3-6V-17AH-D-LITHIUM-/200805029029?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item2ec0e994a5
[21:05] <Darkside> not cheap though
[21:06] <Darkside> the funny thing is
[21:06] <Darkside> in the description they talk about not restrictred for transport
[21:06] <Darkside> but that particular battery is
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> cause of its chemistry?
[21:07] <Darkside> more than 1 gram of lithium inside it
[21:07] <Darkside> http://www.saftbatteries.com/doc/Documents/primary/Cube748/Document%20(19).328ac655-4108-45d8-a8c0-ecf481515e94.pdf
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah that is the criteria?
[21:07] <Darkside> i guess so
[21:07] <Darkside> i should order one just to see what happens
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:08] <Darkside> the cool thing about those cells is you can just hook it straight into the VCC of the AVR
[21:08] <Darkside> the cell voltage is flat all the way until the end of its life
[21:08] <SP9UOB> dont hear wb8elk anymore - its time to go to bed :-)
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:08] <Darkside> still
[21:08] <Darkside> i'd just use lithium AAs
[21:08] <Darkside> they're pretty damn good
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> my system ran 16 hours with them
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[21:10] <Darkside> how many?
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> 3x AA
[21:10] <Darkside> with a LDO?
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah a voltage regulator
[21:11] <Darkside> mm
[21:11] <Darkside> i need to look into decent buck/boost converters
[21:11] <Darkside> ones that run at buck mode when Vin>Vcc, then switch into boost mode when Vin<Vcc
[21:11] <Darkside> those should make the most out of the batteries
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke showed me a step-down earlier
[21:12] <Darkside> because at the moment my 2xAA boost converter payload get almost as much runtime as a 4xAA LDO payload
[21:12] <DrLuke> hi
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:13] <Darkside> a step-down boost converter will certainly be more efficient
[21:13] <Darkside> and should stretch out the runtime by a few more hours
[21:13] <DrLuke> step-down boost is an oxymoron
[21:13] <Darkside> whoops
[21:13] <Darkside> sorry
[21:13] <DrLuke> :P
[21:13] <Darkside> step-down buck converter
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:13] <Darkside> i should just be saying 'switchmode'
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> they should use THAT in our school books!
[21:13] <DrLuke> dc-dc converter
[21:13] <Darkside> yeah
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> here the standard oxymoron example is "black milk"
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> (in germany)
[21:14] <DrLuke> was it?
[21:14] <Darkside> anyway, i'm transitioning over to step-up payloads
[21:14] <DrLuke> I thought it was something different
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> at least in my book here
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> in lower saxony
[21:14] <DrLuke> like sour suger or something
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> we had that quite big white book in german lessons
[21:14] <Darkside> i'd like to reduce the weight of all my payloads
[21:14] <DrLuke> haha saxony
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[21:14] <DrLuke> german, right :P
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> no lower saxony
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> that thing with Hannover and so on
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:15] <Darkside> and with a TPS61200 boost converter, i've ben able to lower the weight of a cutdown payload + GPS + batteries to 35g
[21:15] <DrLuke> oh wait
[21:15] <DrLuke> I confused that with sachsen-anhalt
[21:15] <DrLuke> or am I... I never was that good in geography :(
[21:15] <DrLuke> anyways back to topic
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[21:16] <DrLuke> a dc-dc converter will in almost any case be better than a linear regulator
[21:16] <DrLuke> in terms of efficiency
[21:16] <Darkside> yes
[21:16] <Darkside> linear reg will dissipate voltage drop X current in heat, right?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Saxony
[21:17] <Darkside> so thats 120mW in heat from 4.5v input
[21:17] <DrLuke> ah
[21:17] <DrLuke> that
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:18] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:18] <Darkside> hrmm
[21:19] <DrLuke> yes
[21:19] <Darkside> so linear regulator efficiency is output voltage / input voltage ?
[21:20] <DrLuke> yeah
[21:20] <DrLuke> no
[21:20] <Darkside> ok
[21:20] <Darkside> i think theres a bit more to it
[21:20] <DrLuke> Vin - Vout / Vout
[21:20] <DrLuke> was it?
[21:21] <Darkside> im not sure
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> it looks like the efficiency equation
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> (at least the combustion engine one looks that way)
[21:21] <DrLuke> it was Vout/Vin
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:22] <Darkside> DrLuke: Pout/Pin
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[21:22] <Darkside> but is the current at the input and the output of a linear regulator the same
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, are the energy densities similar for the other batteries of the Saft LS series?
[21:22] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: they're all pretty heavy
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <Darkside> and tey all have the same problem where more current draw means less capacity
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <DrLuke> darksider: P is directly related to V
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> thing was professor sent me to check for other batteries
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> as he said 16 h may be insufficient for finding the balloon
[21:24] <DrLuke> get a nokia phone with FBus
[21:24] <DrLuke> that way you can send a gps-string once it landed
[21:24] <Upu> Lunar Energizer Lithiums are as good as you're going to get
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:24] <Upu> and where the hell are you planning on sending it ?
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> I told him they are probably the best
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> I told hime we fly 4 hours maybe
[21:24] <Upu> normal flight is 4 hours
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> and he said "what if night breaks in and you can't find it by then"
[21:24] <Upu> if you float you've screwed up anyway
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:25] <Darkside> Upu: the nighttime thing is a serious point though
[21:25] <Upu> you launch in the morning ?
[21:25] <Darkside> projct horus has been in that situation
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:25] <Darkside> we launched in teh morning
[21:25] <Darkside> payload landed in the middle of a very high clearance 4wd only national park
[21:25] <Darkside> we got bogged
[21:25] <Darkside> spend 4 hours getting help, getting unbogged
[21:25] <Upu> I don't think thats going to be an issue in Germany
[21:26] <Darkside> by this point payload has been on for 8 hours
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:26] <Darkside> get into down, have dinner, local guy offers to help
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[21:26] <Darkside> by the time we get to paload its been on for 12 hours
[21:26] <Upu> fine
[21:26] <Upu> put 4 batteries in Lunar
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:26] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: yeah, do that
[21:26] <Upu> next problem ? :)
[21:26] <Darkside> Horus 16 lasted for 24 hours on 4xAAs
[21:26] <Upu> and Lunar
[21:26] <Darkside> and it only stopped because it landed in the ocean
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> that will need to replace the pot.div. but no real problem there
[21:26] <Upu> use a smaller board
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> the arduino or the other one?
[21:27] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: for batt voltage measurement?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:27] <Upu> Arduino
[21:27] <Darkside> you dont need to replace it
[21:27] <Darkside> just change the code
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I made it so that when you put in 6 V, you get 2.56V
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. the maximum voltage is the maximum reading
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and four energizers give 7.1 V
[21:28] <Darkside> use the 3.3v reference
[21:28] <Darkside> oh wait
[21:28] <Darkside> even then
[21:28] <Darkside> thats exceeding the 3.3v limit
[21:28] <Darkside> yeah ok :P
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:28] <Darkside> how about use a 10:1 stepdown
[21:28] <Darkside> and use the 1.1v reference
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> that might work too
[21:29] <Darkside> thats what i do
[21:29] <Darkside> well, for some things
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> I thought it might be a good idea to like use the full range of the ADC
[21:29] <Darkside> ahh, you'll get enough precision anyway
[21:30] <Darkside> lemme see if i have some battery voltage plots
[21:30] <Darkside> shoudl give you an idea of ADC noise
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi Elmar_PD3EM
[21:30] <DrLuke> I planned to use a RC-grad lipo battery
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, yea, one problem might be that we need multiple UARTs
[21:31] <DrLuke> is that a bit overkill?
[21:31] <Upu> for what ?
[21:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> GE all!
[21:31] <DrLuke> hab
[21:31] <Darkside> DrLuke: don't use a lipo
[21:31] <Upu> Hey Elmar
[21:31] <Darkside> unless you're going to be drawing a few amps from it continuously, don't use one
[21:31] <Upu> are you assisting with the launch tomorrow ?
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> GPS, OpenLog (later on the geiger counter)
[21:31] <DrLuke> oh o
[21:31] <DrLuke> ok*
[21:31] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: you can write to an openlog with a software serial port
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:31] <Darkside> its UART inputs that are th eproblem
[21:32] <Darkside> DrLuke: when lipos get <-10degC or so, their cell voltage drops off
[21:32] <Darkside> and bang, everything dies
[21:32] <DrLuke> oh
[21:32] <Darkside> use energizer lithium Aas
[21:32] <DrLuke> so you guys just use 4 AA batteries?
[21:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> it will be hot tomorrow during the chase....
[21:32] <Darkside> well, i use 2
[21:32] <Darkside> but sure
[21:33] <Darkside> well, i use 2 now, but our main telemetry payload uses 4
[21:33] <DrLuke> ok
[21:33] <Darkside> tbh for most non-unusual flights, 3 would work fine, as we use a LDO with a 150mV dropout voltage
[21:34] <Darkside> and given they start at 1.8v per cell, drop to 1.6v then sit there for a bloody long time, that'd probably be ok
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> Elmar_PD3EM, yeah 34°C !!!
[21:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> lucky I have airco in the car ;-)
[21:34] <Darkside> with 100mA draw, the battery pack would sit at 4.8V for a good 18 hours or so i think
[21:34] <Upu> what time is launch Elmar_PD3EM ?
[21:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> expected between 8:30 and 9:00 UTC Upu
[21:35] <Upu> oh thats early
[21:35] <Darkside> DrLuke: using 4 cells with a LDO regulator buys you more time when the battery voltage starts to fall off
[21:35] <Darkside> before the LDO cuts out
[21:35] <DrLuke> do you guys know if 18650 batteries are good to use?
[21:35] <DrLuke> I have 2 spare ones I bought for a project
[21:35] <Darkside> dont use them either
[21:35] <Darkside> lithium ion has the same problem
[21:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu but at that time it will still be below 30 centigrade :-)
[21:36] <Upu> yup
[21:36] <DrLuke> ok
[21:36] <DrLuke> what are energizers made out of?
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> parts of old flippers
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:36] <Darkside> lithium iron disulfide
[21:36] <DrLuke> :P
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> do you know which movie I took that from?
[21:36] <DrLuke> no
[21:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> we're going to help costyn with his launch and tracking
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> Back to the Future Part I
[21:37] <DrLuke> haven't seen that in a loooong time
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> all batteries are loading now...
[21:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> loading = being charged ;-)
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> ;)
[21:38] <DrLuke> nice
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> earlier Darkside and I talked about the French battery manufacturer SAFT
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> and that it is funny that Saft is german for juice
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> and that we said that battery deliver juice in germany too
[21:39] <DrLuke> haha
[21:39] <DrLuke> perfect name
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:40] <Darkside> hmm
[21:40] <Darkside> i cant find my test results..
[21:40] <DrLuke> I need to build a cooling chamber
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[21:41] <Darkside> oh wait hang on
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[21:42] <Darkside> righ
[21:42] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/7nJWI.png
[21:42] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: thats data using the 3.3v reference
[21:42] <Darkside> thats using a boost converter, to boost the cell from 1xAA up to 3.3v
[21:42] <Darkside> and i'm pretty sure that wasn't even a lithium AA
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:42] <DrLuke> what boost converter did you use
[21:43] <Darkside> TPS61200
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> my plot http://s.gullipics.com/image/t/n/i/5zttkv-jbff51-rcxl/DurationTest1BatteryVoltage.png
[21:43] <mattbrejza> good old TPS61200
[21:43] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: thats the standard discharge curve :-)
[21:44] <Darkside> for lithium sanyway
[21:44] <Darkside> mattbrejza: ooh lemme show you my photograph of one..
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:45] <Darkside> im getting real good at soldering them
[21:45] <mattbrejza> i competely messed one up
[21:45] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/eGNQp.jpg
[21:45] <mattbrejza> taped by boards down to another board to keep them still
[21:45] <mattbrejza> then put in oven...
[21:45] <Darkside> i don't use an oven
[21:46] <Darkside> i only use hot air if i screw it up
[21:46] <Darkside> i just use a wide-tipped iron, and liquid flux
[21:46] <mattbrejza> i also had a 64 QFN w/ exposed pad so it all went in at once
[21:46] <Darkside> this has an exposed pad too
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, COOL
[21:46] <DrLuke> nice
[21:46] <Darkside> the key is the flux
[21:46] <mattbrejza> yea but it goes to the edges
[21:46] <DrLuke> pretty shiny
[21:47] <Darkside> mattbrejza: yes
[21:47] <Darkside> though some of the pins on the outside will be ground pins soo
[21:47] <Darkside> too*
[21:47] <mattbrejza> yea ive done qfn before by hand with flux, but the oven was there
[21:47] <DrLuke> the pad on the left looks kinda sad
[21:47] <Darkside> so if you link the to the exposed pad with an exposed trave, the solder will follow the trace
[21:47] <DrLuke> where did you get the board manufactured?
[21:47] <Darkside> the other trick is to place a large via under the chip
[21:48] <Darkside> and solder from the bottom
[21:48] <Darkside> DrLuke: friend in china
[21:48] <mattbrejza> well this other IC's exposed pad was isolated
[21:48] <Upu> Mitch
[21:48] <mattbrejza> trying to find a piccy
[21:48] <Darkside> mattbrejza: again, the lare via
[21:48] <Darkside> large*
[21:48] <Upu> http://www.hackvana.com/store/
[21:48] <Darkside> so you just solder from the other side
[21:48] <Upu> I think
[21:48] <Upu> I use him too
[21:48] <Darkside> Upu: i dont think he has the pcb stuff setup online
[21:49] <Darkside> oh
[21:49] <Darkside> yeah, he just says email him for a quote
[21:49] <eroomde> Upu: abelour a'bunadh
[21:49] <eroomde> and 3 of them
[21:49] <eroomde> nows is a dngerous time
[21:49] <Upu> Nice eroomde ?
[21:49] <eroomde> v
[21:49] <Upu> not tried that one
[21:49] <Upu> three of them ? :)
[21:49] <eroomde> 60%
[21:49] <eroomde> mmm
[21:49] <Upu> this should be interesting
[21:49] <eroomde> had a bg meal wth 2 frieds and just got home
[21:50] <Upu> I've had enough with the ale
[21:51] <mattbrejza> Darkside: i know it can be done, still not worth the effort of me when i could use a proper oven
[21:51] <eroomde> which ale/
[21:51] <Darkside> mattbrejza: hehe
[21:51] <Darkside> i haven't got much experience with reflow soldering
[21:51] <Darkside> i've done it once, on a cubesat board
[21:51] <Darkside> used a stencil, all that
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> lab temperatures http://s.gullipics.com/image/0/9/f/5zttkv-jbfgj4-uyh8/DurationTest1Temperature.png
[21:52] <Darkside> and when it reflowed, i had a heap of pins bridge
[21:52] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/hNkPq
[21:52] <Darkside> and i had to go rework it all myself anyway
[21:52] <Darkside> ended up soldering al the other components (no QFNs mind you) by hand
[21:52] <mattbrejza> i think i put too little on actually
[21:52] <Darkside> the worst on that board was a TSSOP10
[21:52] <Darkside> oh, and a TQFP-100
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> wut
[21:52] <Darkside> but that was easy
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> dude use a stencil
[21:52] <Darkside> and i used a stencil
[21:52] <mattbrejza> yea i only reflowed the QFN, tweezer iron for the 0402
[21:53] <Darkside> oh wow
[21:53] <Darkside> heh you had a similar idea to me
[21:53] <Darkside> i made a little pcb which sits on the back of a 2xAA battery holder
[21:53] <Darkside> and can provide 3.3v and 5v
[21:54] <Darkside> depending on what you populate of course
[21:54] <mattbrejza> yea that was going to sit on the board, but the case constraits mean that its now on wires
[21:54] <Darkside> mm
[21:54] <mattbrejza> kept it seperate incase it didnt work
[21:54] <Darkside> what input and output caps do you have on that
[21:55] <mattbrejza> ceramic
[21:55] <Darkside> i mean, waht values
[21:55] <mattbrejza> two 10u on the output i think
[21:56] <mattbrejza> and one on the input
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[21:57] <DrLuke> do you guys know of any 1.5V to 3.3V boost converter that doesn't come in a smd packageß
[21:57] <Darkside> DrLuke: no
[21:57] <mattbrejza> yea the tps61200 is the only one i could find
[21:57] <Darkside> apart from prbuilt modules
[21:57] <Darkside> mattbrejza: theres also the NCP1402
[21:57] <Darkside> but it cant handle much current
[21:57] <mattbrejza> there were some NXP ones that were nicer packages but not as good performance
[21:57] <Darkside> yeah
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[21:58] <mattbrejza> tbh SOT23-5 is easy to solder
[21:58] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok... almost time to go....
[21:58] <Darkside> it doesn't work doen to 0.85v like the TPS61000 does
[21:58] <mattbrejza> you just need to believe...
[21:58] <Darkside> yeah, SOT anything is easy
[21:58] <Elmar_PD3EM> do you guys want a live stream tomorrow?
[21:58] <DrLuke> hmm
[21:59] <DrLuke> but for SOTs I need to get a pcb made
[21:59] <Darkside> DrLuke: yes
[21:59] <DrLuke> and I don't have the money for that right now
[21:59] <Darkside> for all of this stuff you do
[21:59] <Upu> got for it Elmar
[21:59] <mattbrejza> na just get some copper clad and a scaple
[21:59] <Upu> always nice
[21:59] <Darkside> mattbrejza: lol
[21:59] <Upu> have you got an account with batc.tv ?
[21:59] <DrLuke> heh
[21:59] <DrLuke> actually had to do that with my tesla coil board
[21:59] <Darkside> DrLuke: a 5x5cm pcb will cost you approx AUD$40 for 10 pcbs
[21:59] <DrLuke> to widen the gap between 2 traces
[21:59] <DrLuke> darkside: that's money I don't have
[21:59] <Darkside> ahh
[22:00] <mattbrejza> well $10 from seed
[22:00] <mattbrejza> seeed
[22:00] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'll try to set it up tomorrow morning but first i'll get some sleep ;-)
[22:00] <DrLuke> my pocketmoney for the next 4 months already goes for the balloon, parachute and helium
[22:00] <Upu> ok Elmar_PD3EM let me know if you need a hand
[22:00] <Upu> night
[22:00] <DrLuke> night
[22:00] <Elmar_PD3EM> good night all. Talk to you 2morrow (as PD3EM-mobile)
[22:00] <Darkside> mattbrejza: plus shipping
[22:01] <mattbrejza> like $3
[22:01] <DrLuke> well iteadstudio also is cheap
[22:01] <Darkside> yeah, if you want it in a month
[22:01] <DrLuke> that's where I've ordered before
[22:01] <Darkside> we use mitch, our friend in china
[22:01] <Upu> I second using Mitch
[22:01] <Darkside> his pcbs are of better manufacturing quality than seeed
[22:01] <DrLuke> how much does mitch cost
[22:01] <Darkside> and the guy is a hacker himself
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> WB8ELK2 floating?
[22:01] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks Upu ! I'll let you nknow when I need a hand
[22:01] <Upu> a fraction more than Seeed
[22:01] <Upu> maybe $1-2
[22:01] <Darkside> Upu: more than a fraction
[22:02] <mattbrejza> Darkside: the rest of the payload http://imgur.com/a/eAnbW
[22:02] <Darkside> its $18 for 10 5x5cm boards iirc
[22:02] <Upu> vs $14
[22:02] <Darkside> oh yeah, e-test
[22:02] <Upu> ok fair enough $4
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[22:02] <Darkside> mattbrejza: chip?
[22:02] <DrLuke> well, yes, it's a very fair price for the service
[22:03] <Upu> right I'm off nn
[22:03] <DrLuke> but on such an extremely low budget like mine every dollar counts
[22:03] <DrLuke> night
[22:03] <Darkside> DrLuke: we prefer to support him over other companies
[22:03] <Darkside> mitch is well known in the australian hackerspace scene
[22:03] <DrLuke> with itead I can get 5x5 cm for 10$
[22:03] <mattbrejza> cc430f513x
[22:03] <Darkside> he's in china to be able to supply australian hackerspaces with components and PCBs for cheap
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> which frequency?
[22:04] <mattbrejza> 434
[22:04] <Darkside> and his prices for larger PCBs are better than seeeds prices
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> cool
[22:04] <Darkside> and again, his manufacturing quality is far better
[22:04] <DrLuke> darkside: I understand
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> oh the msp430 + chipcon
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> nice
[22:04] <Darkside> we prefer to support someone we know basically
[22:04] <DrLuke> and if I had more money it would be a total nobrainer
[22:04] <Darkside> mattbrejza: what output power?
[22:04] <mattbrejza> yep, the rfm22b is just too big
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, what did you mean by
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> <Darkside> its UART inputs that are th eproblem
[22:05] <mattbrejza> well atm it does 7.5dBm or so, but thers still some playing about to do
[22:05] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: UART RX is a pain to do in software
[22:05] <Darkside> UART TX is pretty easy
[22:05] <mattbrejza> the datasheet says itll do 10.5dBm at 2V, but im running at 1.8V
[22:05] <Darkside> mattbrejza: ahh ok
[22:05] <Darkside> not interested then :P
[22:06] <Darkside> i'm somewhat interested in the HopeRF HM-TRP module
[22:06] <Darkside> which is basically a Si1000 module
[22:06] <DrLuke> I guess I'll just use a LDO linear regulator for my first flight, and then on later flights I'll use a pcb made by mitch
[22:06] <DrLuke> no need to optimize everything on the first flight
[22:06] <Darkside> 8051 core + i think the Si432 radio? does 100mW output power
[22:06] <mattbrejza> well itll do 12dBm but still not 100mW
[22:07] <Darkside> mattbrejza: well tbh i don't need 100mW
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, i.e. you mean the software serial library?
[22:07] <Darkside> we use 25mw here
[22:07] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: yes
[22:07] <Darkside> go ahead and use that to write data out to the openlog
[22:07] <Darkside> but it uses busy waiting to receive data
[22:07] <mattbrejza> msp430 is very nice however, havnt heard nice things abut 8051
[22:07] <Darkside> mattbrejza: yeah
[22:07] <Darkside> i haven't dealt with one
[22:08] <Darkside> i'm not sure what the problem is with them, is it the toolchain?
[22:08] <Darkside> i thought that if you can program in C, whats the problem?
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[22:08] <Darkside> once you abstract the hardware interactions away, it should be just as easy to deal with as an avr
[22:08] <Darkside> mattbrejza: question
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> ive tested the rfm22b
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> got about 500km between two of them of the ground
[22:09] <Darkside> mattbrejza: the pcb with the 430 chip on it, where did you buy it
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> with whips and buildings inbetween
[22:09] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: wat
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> *500m
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, yea that doesn't sound good at all :(
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> oh RX is difficult
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> sorry misread that
[22:09] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: TX is fune
[22:09] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: at what power?
[22:09] <Darkside> and what data mode
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> 4800 baud and 10mw
[22:10] <mattbrejza> Darkside: pcbpool (i wasnt paying)
[22:10] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: nice
[22:10] <Darkside> mattbrejza: hmm
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> not really
[22:10] <Darkside> mattbrejza: the hole next to the chip antena, am i seeing correctly that it has no plating?
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> but itd be better with a yagi
[22:11] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: yeah
[22:11] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i use 500 baud GMSK for the uplink
[22:11] <Darkside> that fits nicely within the passband of a ham SSB transmitter
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[22:11] <mattbrejza> Darkside: yep
[22:11] <Darkside> mattbrejza: was that specified in the board files?
[22:11] <Darkside> its possibke i'm just missing an option in altium
[22:12] <mattbrejza> i just used the 'hole' tool in eagle
[22:12] <Darkside> but i'm not really sure on the manufacturing process, so i don't knowif they can selectively not plate certain holes
[22:12] <Darkside> i guess its possible, its most likely just my own fault
[22:12] <Darkside> Upu's MAX-6Q + chip antenna breakouts have the problem where there are 2 holes near the antena, and they are both plated
[22:13] <Darkside> which can cause problems with the antenna
[22:13] <mattbrejza> whoops
[22:13] <Darkside> i mean, it still gets lock
[22:13] <Darkside> once it gets lock its fine
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[22:14] <Darkside> i'm stil using the sarantel geohelixes for the moment
[22:14] <mattbrejza> tbh not need such a good antenna in perfect gps conditions
[22:14] <Darkside> but switching to a chip antenna will save 5g or so
[22:14] <mattbrejza> still enough gps devices fail
[22:15] <Darkside> well, a hab payload is pretty much perfect conditions
[22:15] <mattbrejza> yea the entire pcb is less then that...
[22:15] <Darkside> mattbrejza: nice
[22:15] <Darkside> i think my micronut boards were 13g or something
[22:15] <NSS> WB8ELK has made it almost bck to the launch site!
[22:16] <Darkside> cutdown boards are heavier, but hte have terminal blocks and stuff on them
[22:16] <mattbrejza> this one fits into the neck of a 100g totex, wihch is the main thing
[22:16] <Darkside> haha oh nice
[22:16] <mattbrejza> theres a 3D printed case which doubles the weight
[22:16] <Darkside> so why is it going in the neck?
[22:16] <mattbrejza> but it really doesnt matter
[22:16] <Darkside> differential pressure measurement?
[22:17] <mattbrejza> because then it doesnt break the 2m rule
[22:17] <mattbrejza> and its very neat
[22:17] <Darkside> oh lol
[22:17] <Darkside> well
[22:17] <Darkside> you may thin so now
[22:17] <Darkside> think so*
[22:17] <Darkside> but when you release it and the balloon spins, you might be thinking somethign else
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, you again use 2x AA for the cutdown right?
[22:18] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: i will be, the flights so far have use (ugh) 6xAAs
[22:18] <mattbrejza> yea receiving and finding this thing could be interesting
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:18] <Darkside> mattbrejza: yeah, the problem will be the weight too close to the balloons centre of gravity (?) and having it spin
[22:19] <Darkside> we did a launch with a 100g balloon with only a 2m long line between the payload and the balloon
[22:19] <Darkside> and we had the payload almost hit the balloon many times just after launch
[22:19] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: it works with 2xAAs though
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> that is cool
[22:19] <Darkside> hell, it works with 2xAAAs
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[22:20] <mattbrejza> well if i ever finish the program off we shall see
[22:20] <Darkside> but it probably won't be able to cutdown after a few hours of operation with the AAAs
[22:20] <mattbrejza> does anyone actually trigger the cutdowns? (other then sharp)
[22:20] <Darkside> i do
[22:20] <Darkside> we've done 4 flights with cutdowns so far
[22:20] <mattbrejza> i just cant remember the last time a cutdown was actially used
[22:21] <Darkside> we've triggered them from the ground on all the flights
[22:21] <Darkside> first 2 were testing
[22:21] <Darkside> last 2 were to cut away balloon fragments
[22:21] <Darkside> ideally we never have to use them
[22:21] <Darkside> well, to terminate a flight anyway
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[22:21] <mattbrejza> and you have a massive island to try to hit
[22:22] <Darkside> mattbrejza: our problem is when we going into an accidental float
[22:22] <Darkside> we've lost/destroyed 3 payloads that way
[22:22] <mattbrejza> yea suppose
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, do you remember what I said the night before Horus 16?
[22:22] <Darkside> one that floated for a day, one that floated for 2 hours, and one that floated for 3 hours
[22:22] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: nope?
[22:23] <Darkside> mattbrejza: how are your cutdowns triggered?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> that you should include a cutdown
[22:23] <mattbrejza> apex has used a mix of hotwire and explosive
[22:23] <mattbrejza> never used in flight mind you
[22:23] <Darkside> mattbrejza: i mean, is it triggered with a gps fence? an uplink?
[22:23] <mattbrejza> oh
[22:24] <mattbrejza> uplink
[22:24] <Darkside> ooh, what are you using?
[22:24] <Darkside> rfm22b? somethign else?
[22:24] <mattbrejza> first time was PMR446 (466?) radios and aprs
[22:24] <Darkside> haha
[22:24] <Darkside> ok
[22:25] <mattbrejza> second time was transciever r radiomatrix modules
[22:25] <Darkside> yeah ok, my system is probably a bit smaller
[22:25] <Darkside> mm, radiometrix modules are one way of doing it
[22:25] <Darkside> just send up DTMF or something
[22:25] <mattbrejza> well that cc430 board will uplink
[22:25] <Darkside> there is a certain niceness of FM and DTMF
[22:25] <mattbrejza> but nothing useful to send
[22:25] <Darkside> mattbrejza: i'm using 500 baud GMSK up to a RFM22B
[22:26] <Darkside> in can hit the payload from the ground with 100mW from another RFM22 and a yagi, or since the packets fit within the passband of a SSB transceiver, i can record and playback packets at higher powers
[22:26] <mattbrejza> the radiometrix solution was just on-off tone via FM
[22:26] <Darkside> mm
[22:26] <Darkside> thats an easy way for sure
[22:27] <Darkside> that and a DTMF decoder mean you can just key in commands from a handheld
[22:27] <mattbrejza> the cc430 uplink would work in the same sorta way as the rfm22b, but havnt implemented yet
[22:27] <Darkside> mattbrejza: you're going to need more than 12.5dBm of uplink power on the ground
[22:28] <mattbrejza> yea any FSK transmitter will do
[22:28] <mattbrejza> or ssb etc
[22:28] <Darkside> well
[22:28] <mattbrejza> the protocol it implements is simple enough
[22:28] <mattbrejza> or just record
[22:28] <Darkside> you need to lower the baud rate quite a bit to get it to fit within a 3 KHz passband
[22:28] <mattbrejza> 600 baud min. i think
[22:29] <Darkside> you could also do what CUSF did and do carrier detection using RSSI measurements
[22:29] <Darkside> very low baud rate OOK
[22:29] <mattbrejza> tbh its a problem i have no reason (atm) to solve :P
[22:29] <Darkside> i do like the 500 baud method though, the uplink packets are quite short
[22:29] <Darkside> andi can send up multiple commands, and messages and things
[22:29] <Darkside> which can be relayed back down on the RTTY transmission
[22:30] <Darkside> until recently, i wasn't using the AFC function of the RFM22B
[22:30] <mattbrejza> yea not sure why cusf did the rssi method, its the same radio core as im suing
[22:30] <Darkside> so as a result, i had to match the frequency on the ground with the airborne receiver
[22:30] <Darkside> and had to get it within 200Hz or so
[22:31] <Darkside> so i used the downlinked RTTY transmission as a reference, tune in on that, then when the payload goes into receive mode (5 seconds line), i transmit
[22:31] <mattbrejza> if i can be bothered id temperature compensate the transmitter
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[22:31] <Darkside> but heres the thing
[22:31] <Darkside> i got AFC working
[22:31] <Darkside> and now i can be within 10KHz and it finds it, as long as i use a long preamble
[22:32] <Darkside> packets are about twice as long now (still <1s), but the AFC stuff makes it so much easier to use
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[22:32] <Darkside> i still need to test AFC in the air though. i'm concerned that other ISM band traffic may confuse it
[22:33] <Darkside> in australia, thats no problem - there is no other ism band traffic (or hardly any) where we launch
[22:33] <Darkside> in the UK... it might be an issue
[22:33] <mattbrejza> well whenever you transmit it should start listening to you
[22:33] <Darkside> yes, if you uplink with enough power it should be fine
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[22:33] <mattbrejza> i cant see ism being loud in the air
[22:33] <Darkside> and if i get a launch in while i'm here, that's going to be the main thing i'll be testing
[22:34] <Darkside> i'll be uplinkng with both the RFM22B and another radio, at differnet pwoer levels, and different frequency offsets from the transmit freq
[22:35] <Darkside> also, the main benefit of the RFM22B over the radiometrix method is frequency agility
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[22:35] <Darkside> and price
[22:35] <mattbrejza> with the CC430 i ended up crystal pulling so i can tune it much finer, hopefully will mean i can temperture stabilise it
[22:35] <Darkside> tbh i wouldn't bother much about temp stabilisation
[22:35] <Darkside> oh wait
[22:35] <mattbrejza> yea this was done a while ago
[22:35] <Darkside> youv'e got a weenie smd crystal havent you
[22:35] <Darkside> with no thermal mass
[22:36] <mattbrejza> its 10ppm though
[22:36] <Darkside> just like on the RFM22B
[22:36] <Darkside> ok
[22:36] <Darkside> RFM22B's crystal is not 10ppm, it hink
[22:36] <Darkside> maybe more like 30ppm or higher
[22:36] <mattbrejza> id expect 30
[22:36] <Darkside> during my flights i've seen it drift by about 3KHz or so
[22:36] <mattbrejza> next test is frequency and power against temperature
[22:36] <Darkside> which is less than what the radioemtrix modules do
[22:37] <Darkside> navrac bonded the crystal and the chip together with some copper foil, and covered the board inrubber cement
[22:37] <Darkside> and that stopped his one from drifting, but his payload didn't get very cold anyway
[22:38] <Darkside> tbh downlink drift i dont care about. it's actually kind of fun to track it
[22:38] <mattbrejza> yea stoppping it getting cold is probably the best solution
[22:38] <Darkside> its also a job you can give to ballooning newbies
[22:38] <Darkside> get them to track the drift in the chase car
[22:39] <Darkside> gives them a job to do, gets them involved in the chase
[22:40] <mattbrejza> heh
[22:40] <Darkside> i'm serious
[22:40] <Darkside> its a good way to get them engaged in it all
[22:40] <Darkside> else they're sitting in a car looking at numbers on a screen
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> just use a tcxo
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> WB8ELK2 is floating
[22:40] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: uses more power though
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> did they use H2?
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: hardly
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> oh i guess if you want suport low power
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> *super
[22:41] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: how much do they use?
[22:41] <Darkside> and would they work at -30 degrees ambient?
[22:41] <mattbrejza> tcxo wont be too bad, oven one however
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> few ma
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> exactly
[22:41] <Darkside> mm ok
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> but more than an xtal
[22:42] <Darkside> again, i'm not that fussed about a bit of drift
[22:42] <Darkside> you can compensate fo rit on the ground easily enough
[22:42] <Darkside> either manually, or automatically
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> wtf is the yellow thing
[22:43] <Darkside> that is weird
[22:43] <Darkside> the only tiem drift becomes a problem is when its rapid
[22:43] <Darkside> and with good insulation, you don't get rapid drift anyway
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> looks like a sat tracker
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah silicone rubber over the xtal for example
[22:44] <Darkside> yep
[22:44] <Darkside> or more foam
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> or candle wax
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> foam doesnt have thermal mass
[22:44] <Darkside> i'm just wondering how the fast drifts occut
[22:44] <Darkside> occur*
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> you want to look at the thermal diffusivity
[22:44] <Darkside> it must be rapid fluctuations in temperature
[22:45] <Darkside> and i thought that might have been due to air penetrating the box
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> how do you program the msp430+chipcon ic?
[22:45] <Darkside> as the box tumbles, air gets in
[22:45] <Darkside> and causes internal temperature variations, causing frquency variations
[22:46] <Darkside> i've never had a payload change in frequency so fast that dl-fldigi couldn't track it
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> as in - are there any libraries?
[22:46] <Darkside> radiometrix module or rfm22b
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> http://old.nabble.com/CC430-support-patches-available-td27149914.html
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> hmm nice
[22:49] <Darkside> i guess you want libraries to abstract away the hardware interaction for that chip
[22:49] <Darkside> arduino really does do that nicely
[22:50] <Darkside> much nicer than twiddling registers
[22:50] <mattbrejza> well msp430 is easy, but actually controlling the cc1101?
[22:50] <mattbrejza> yea just copy TIs example
[22:50] <Darkside> i guess that'd be more register twiddling!
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> cool
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[22:50] <Laurenceb_> are there raw data registers?
[22:50] <mattbrejza> the CC1101s registers arnt part of the msp430's memory map
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> oh
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> thats a little lame
[22:50] <mattbrejza> you need to 'proxy' edit them
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> how?
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> http://svn.noccy.com/mspdev/reference/airbooster-firmware/Framework/FPI/Devices/Radio/CCXXX/Model/CC430.h
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> thats that?
[22:51] <mattbrejza> yea thats part of it
[22:52] <mattbrejza> you can modify all the registers, just use TIs HAL functions
[22:52] <Darkside> mm, you onlt have to write the code to handle talkint to the registers once
[22:52] <Darkside> abstract it away, move on
[22:52] <mattbrejza> and then there are commands like 'IDLE' 'SLEEP' TX' 'CAL'
[22:52] <mattbrejza> well you dont have to write it once, use TIs stuff
[22:53] <mattbrejza> also there is TIs rf studio, which can connect to the cc1101 via the msp430s debug interface
[22:53] <mattbrejza> get it working there then copy the settings
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[22:54] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> on cc1020 you can extract baseband
[22:55] <mattbrejza> yea i dont think you can on this
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> but the test registers on cc1101 arent described properly
[22:55] <mattbrejza> coild ask TI nicely...
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> the noise figure is quite high
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> about 11dB
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> si4432 is about 4dB
[22:56] <mattbrejza> maybe showing them what you did with the cc1020 they may help you
[22:56] <mattbrejza> theres the cc1190 if you wanted to use 868
[22:57] <mattbrejza> but tahts a two IC solution
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> but 434 to digital rx with a single ic is nice
[22:57] <mattbrejza> does the si4432 give baseband?
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[22:58] <Laurenceb_> only as analgoue out
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[22:58] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: wait what?
[22:58] <Darkside> is the Si4432 the one thats on the RFM22B?
[22:58] <mattbrejza> now just need baseband in ¬.¬
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> you cant use cc1020 on 868?
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> im sure you can
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: yes
[22:59] <Darkside> it doesn't have baseband out
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: you can buy 868 cc1020 eval kit on mouser
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> it does in a test mode
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> out of the gpio pins
[22:59] <Darkside> wat
[22:59] <Darkside> where is this documented
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> somewhere.. or maybe its on a forum
[23:00] <Darkside> i would very much like to see that
[23:00] <mattbrejza> why not document a feature, too much effort to support?
[23:00] <Darkside> mattbrejza: its probably not that useful as a feature
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[23:02] <Laurenceb_> factory test
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[23:05] <Laurenceb_> WB8ELK2 coming down slowly
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> going to get dark soon
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, do you now put the payloads on the rotary clothes dryer all the time?
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> wonder if ti will make it
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[23:15] <mattbrejza> i still think IQ baseband inputs would be more useful p
[23:15] <mattbrejza> on one of these things
[23:15] <mattbrejza> oc they dont work like that
[23:15] <Randomskk> how bad do you guys reckon 6dB loss on a cable run to my antenna would be?
[23:16] <Randomskk> no points for saying '6dB bad'
[23:16] <gonzo_> it would be 6db
[23:16] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind your antenna is 30m up...
[23:16] <gonzo_> it would be an S poimt
[23:16] <gonzo_> point
[23:17] <Randomskk> oh huh, hadn't thought of it as one s point
[23:17] <Randomskk> I wonder how bad that'l be.
[23:17] <mattbrejza> does the ground reflection model apply to habs?
[23:17] <Randomskk> I could probably get away with 3.8dB instead if I use a shorter run of cable, but it's less convenient...
[23:17] <gonzo_> quite important when sigs are weak
[23:17] <Randomskk> gonzo_: the tradeoff is I get to stick the antenna (a colinear) up a 30m mast
[23:18] <gonzo_> if you put the preamp/lna up the mast with the antenna, then the loss is not a problem
[23:19] <Randomskk> I would love to but don't have a preamp or a DC bias injector
[23:19] <gonzo_> If it's for RX only, put the LNA up the mase and you can get away with using something like CT100 sat tv coax
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[23:19] <Randomskk> I already have the coax incidentally
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[23:19] <Randomskk> it'd be nice to be able to tx
[23:19] <Randomskk> but not the end of the world
[23:19] <gonzo_> rg213?
[23:19] <Randomskk> w103
[23:19] <gonzo_> rr
[23:19] <Randomskk> 100m spool of it sitting here
[23:20] <Randomskk> 30m mast, 15m keepout zone so at bare minimum I need 45m
[23:20] <Randomskk> but I was planning 80 which lets me run it to more convenient places for the radio
[23:21] <gonzo_> I have my ants down the garden, next to bthe shed, which has the preamps/power amps in
[23:21] <Randomskk> no mains power at the top of the mast either
[23:21] <Randomskk> so it'd have to be dc injected over the coax
[23:21] <Randomskk> I believe. in theory I could maybe run a very long power cable but I don't have any such cable
[23:22] <mattbrejza> well a dc injector is just a capacitor?
[23:22] <gonzo_> and an inductor
[23:22] <Randomskk> yes but I have until something like tuesday ideally
[23:22] <Randomskk> and I still don't have a masthead preamp or LNA
[23:23] <Darkside> Randomskk: you're waiting on one from upu?
[23:23] <Randomskk> no
[23:23] <Darkside> or are you going to use something else
[23:23] <Randomskk> though if I were to get one it'd probably be one from him
[23:23] <Randomskk> atm I'm not planning on using one at all
[23:23] <Darkside> tbh i'd set it up without one at first
[23:23] <Darkside> then you can use it for TX too
[23:23] <Randomskk> ideally I'd get away without as I'd liek to be able to tx
[23:23] <Darkside> eys
[23:23] <Darkside> :P
[23:23] <Randomskk> can't do "at first"
[23:23] <Randomskk> got to get the parts to them by a week tuesday (and ideally this tuesday)
[23:23] <Randomskk> then no access until after the event
[23:23] <Darkside> ohh
[23:23] <Darkside> ok
[23:24] <Randomskk> I don't think I have enough time to sort out a preamp properly and reliably
[23:24] <Randomskk> and not having access to it makes me a little antsy
[23:24] <Randomskk> I just had the thought that maybe I could make a 50m patch and a 30m patch
[23:24] <Randomskk> and use a coupler to connect the two for 80m
[23:24] <Randomskk> and then be able to use 50m directly instead if requried
[23:25] <Randomskk> but the coupler adds loss... :|
[23:25] <Darkside> if you use N connectors it should be pretty small
[23:25] <Darkside> oh wow, i need to go to bed
[23:25] <Darkside> heh
[23:26] <Darkside> i'm meant to be adjusting to UK time, not US time
[23:26] <mattbrejza> use APC7
[23:26] <mattbrejza> you know you want to
[23:26] <Randomskk> haha
[23:26] <Randomskk> no :P
[23:27] <mattbrejza> 1mm?
[23:27] <Randomskk> okay
[23:28] <mattbrejza> anyway this antenna is just for balloons?
[23:29] <Randomskk> wellll
[23:29] <Randomskk> it'd be cool to use it for ham stuff
[23:29] <Randomskk> does anyone know how long it takes to get an event callsign?
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> you have access to an mast?
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> *a
[23:29] <Randomskk> 30m
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> nice
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> uni?
[23:30] <Randomskk> EMF
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> oh of course
[23:30] <gonzo_> a month rings a bell
[23:31] <Randomskk> hmmmm
[23:31] <Randomskk> got two weeks
[23:31] <Randomskk> if that :P
[23:31] <gonzo_> so get your application in quick
[23:31] <Randomskk> ah yes
[23:31] <Randomskk> just found the application form
[23:31] <Randomskk> http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/apply-for-a-licence/ofw287.pdf
[23:31] <Randomskk> four weeks
[23:31] <Randomskk> boo
[23:32] <Darkside> Randomskk: so theres a launch from EMF?
[23:32] <Randomskk> we'll probably do a pico
[23:32] <Darkside> i'm wondering if its worth my while to get up there for a day
[23:32] <Darkside> its a long way to go for one day
[23:32] <Randomskk> you totally should. weather looks nice
[23:32] <Randomskk> you could come for all three days :P
[23:32] <Darkside> urgh
[23:33] <Darkside> means camping
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> haha
[23:33] <Darkside> and i have nothing to camp with
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> and hipsters
[23:33] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i'm fine with camping
[23:33] <Randomskk> oh I guess you do lack a tent
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> i can take camping too
[23:33] <Randomskk> I have a spare tent
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> but hipsters
[23:33] <Laurenceb_> no way
[23:33] <Randomskk> which I could bring to emf
[23:33] <Darkside> just that all my camping gear is in australia
[23:33] <Darkside> Randomskk: still doesnt help
[23:33] <Darkside> i don't have a sleeping bag
[23:33] <Darkside> and all my other stuff is elsewhere
[23:33] <Randomskk> yea guess so
[23:33] <Randomskk> :|
[23:33] <Randomskk> shame
[23:34] <Darkside> heh
[23:34] <Darkside> it does sound pretty cool
[23:35] <Darkside> Introduction to Esperanto - Gavan Fantom
[23:35] <Darkside> HIPSTERS
[23:36] <Randomskk> yea yea you can avoid them
[23:36] <Darkside> still
[23:36] <Darkside> looking at the talks
[23:36] <Darkside> there isn't ,uch there that really interests me
[23:36] <Randomskk> I think a lot of it will be wandering around seeing the stuff people have set up and chatting to people etc
[23:36] <Randomskk> there should be a lot of interesting people
[23:36] <Darkside> mm
[23:37] <Darkside> thats true
[23:37] <Darkside> but i don't think it's goign to be possible for me to get there
[23:37] <Darkside> and stay there
[23:37] <Randomskk> :(
[23:38] <Randomskk> hmm I have no idea how to physically cut this coax either
[23:38] <Randomskk> maybe a hacksaw. it'l be a messy job.
[23:38] <Darkside> cut it apart layer by layer
[23:39] <Darkside> well
[23:39] <Randomskk> it's the thick central conductor I'm concerned about
[23:39] <Darkside> oh yeah
[23:39] <Darkside> use boltcutters, then clean up teh ends
[23:39] <Randomskk> the dielectric is mostly air gap
[23:39] <Randomskk> don't have any
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[23:39] <Darkside> oh
[23:39] <Darkside> hacksaw then i guess
[23:39] <Darkside> so i guess this cable uses special connectors?
[23:39] <Darkside> s/special/expensive/
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside, camping gear?
[23:40] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: for this hacker camp thats going on in a few weeks
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> cause camping reminds me of that bus in alaska
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> the "Into The Wild" bus
[23:41] <Randomskk> Darkside: not particularly
[23:41] <Randomskk> in fact while I would love to have the proper connectors for it
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone know the movie?
[23:41] <Randomskk> I'm just using rg213 n-types and filing the central conductor
[23:41] <Randomskk> which is a bit meh
[23:41] <Randomskk> but it works
[23:41] <Darkside> Randomskk: hrm
[23:41] <Darkside> yeah, a bit dodgy
[23:41] <Randomskk> it's not as bad as it sounds
[23:42] <Randomskk> it's just a very slightly bigger central conductor
[23:42] <Randomskk> the other dimensions are the same
[23:42] <mattbrejza> also still think a dremel is a good idea for cutting
[23:42] <Darkside> tbh i'd almost be inclined to do things very differently
[23:42] <Randomskk> I should dig my dremel out
[23:42] <Darkside> stick a rpi with a funcube dongle at the feedpoint
[23:42] <Randomskk> Darkside: don't have the luxury of time really
[23:42] <Darkside> and power it up ethernet
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[23:42] <Randomskk> Darkside: that'd be worse than 100m of W103 and my icom
[23:42] <Randomskk> to be honest
[23:42] <Randomskk> and way less reliable
[23:42] <Randomskk> and still can't use it to tx
[23:42] <Darkside> yeah
[23:42] <Darkside> how big is this tower going to be?
[23:43] <Randomskk> 30m mast
[23:43] <Randomskk> what do you mean by big?
[23:43] <Darkside> oh is that all
[23:43] <Darkside> :P
[23:43] <Randomskk> yea 30m is like tiny right
[23:43] <Darkside> won't you be operating from the base of the mast?
[23:43] <Randomskk> no
[23:43] <Randomskk> 30m mast
[23:43] <Randomskk> 15m keepout zone around mast
[23:44] <Randomskk> which is 45 at minimum
[23:44] <Darkside> well
[23:44] <Darkside> no
[23:44] <Randomskk> but I don't think we want to operate from the edge of the keepout zone either
[23:44] <Darkside> i assume there are guy wires
[23:44] <Randomskk> yes
[23:44] <Darkside> so its sqrt(30^2 + 15^2)
[23:44] <Randomskk> not running heavy coax at a diagonal
[23:44] <Randomskk> not an option
[23:44] <Darkside> oh
[23:44] <Darkside> lol
[23:44] <Darkside> yeah ok
[23:44] <Randomskk> but 45m of W103 is like
[23:44] <Randomskk> 3.6dB?
[23:44] <Darkside> well, for a pico i'm sure you'll be able to receive it with that
[23:44] <Randomskk> 3.4dB in fact
[23:45] <Darkside> i did a launch where we were receiving a payload through 50m of RG58
[23:45] <Randomskk> the issue is that I'd rather have 80m of coax so we can run it all the way to the stage
[23:45] <Randomskk> ew
[23:45] <Darkside> this was at 2m though
[23:45] <Randomskk> 50m of RG58 is 17.3dB
[23:45] <Randomskk> oh
[23:45] <Randomskk> 9.5dB at 2m
[23:45] <Darkside> yeah
[23:45] <Randomskk> not so awful
[23:45] <Randomskk> still a bit shit
[23:45] <Darkside> also payload was transmitting at 100mW :P
[23:45] <Darkside> but yeah
[23:45] <Randomskk> heh
[23:46] <Darkside> i'd be inclined to stream audio to stage somehow
[23:46] <Darkside> because running 80m of cable is a bit crazy
[23:46] <Randomskk> not that I disagree or anything
[23:46] <Darkside> esp that thick stuff
[23:46] <Randomskk> but I can't see any decent way to do that
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[23:46] <Randomskk> meh it's as thick as RG213
[23:46] <Randomskk> and also there are already cable runs
[23:46] <Darkside> rigid then
[23:46] <Randomskk> true
[23:46] <Randomskk> it is rigid
[23:46] <mattbrejza> is the ground reflection model valid for balloons, theres the gain you get from being higher up
[23:46] <Randomskk> min curvature is 55mm
[23:47] <Darkside> what are you doing on stage?
[23:47] <mattbrejza> tbh itll be fine, stop worrying :)
[23:47] <Darkside> launch? or tracking of it in the air
[23:47] <Randomskk> Darkside: not sure...
[23:47] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: you're right, it'l probably be fine even with all 100m
[23:47] <Darkside> because with how far its going to go, you'd be able to hear it with a handheld on stage
[23:47] <Randomskk> but I need to make a decision on where to cut it
[23:47] <Randomskk> lol
[23:47] <Randomskk> don't say that
[23:47] <Randomskk> could just put my whip on the icom
[23:47] <Randomskk> and still track it perfectly
[23:47] <Darkside> yes
[23:47] <Darkside> and connect to the big antenna after
[23:47] <Darkside> to track it to landing
[23:48] <Randomskk> yea you're probably right.
[23:48] <Darkside> hell, it ssomething to talk about
[23:48] <mattbrejza> id say leave it at 100m
[23:48] <Darkside> you can say that right now, its pretty close, this tiny antenna works fine
[23:48] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: would rather do 80m, which gets us to either stage
[23:48] <Darkside> but in half an hour thats not going to work
[23:48] <Darkside> so we need to use THIS antenna *points at tower*
[23:48] <Randomskk> Darkside: you're very right
[23:49] <Darkside> hey, at linuxconf we got all the people at our talk to walk outside with us
[23:49] <Darkside> like, 100 people or something
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[23:49] <Darkside> then we all stood in a field for a while, then launched a balloon
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[00:00] --- Sun Aug 19 2012