highaltitude.log.20120815

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[01:20] <nigelvh> KT5TK_QRL, still around?
[01:23] <KT5TK_QRL> yes
[01:24] <nigelvh> Cool. Got home a few minutes ago. Loaded up the SDR page. Sound comes through nicely.
[01:25] <nigelvh> Though the phase shifting sounds a little clicky.
[01:26] <KT5TK_QRL> It sounds a bit hard because I directly modulate the phase registers of the DDS at the HF level
[01:27] <KT5TK_QRL> For a 100% clean phase modulation I'd need to AM modulate with 31 Hz sine
[01:27] <nigelvh> Makes sense.
[01:27] <nigelvh> In any case, nicely done.
[01:27] <KT5TK_QRL> But that's overkill for a lightweight balloon experiment
[01:28] <KT5TK_QRL> can you decode?
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[01:29] <nigelvh> Loading up a decode app presently
[01:30] <KT5TK_QRL> What are you using?
[01:30] <nigelvh> MixW
[01:30] <nigelvh> (Generally)
[01:31] <KT5TK_QRL> That should be fine. Never used it though. I'm on Linux
[01:32] <nigelvh> $$KT5TK,477,000000,0.0,0.0,0,No GPS lease... http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com *B785
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> looks good
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> though it should have GPS
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> It's on my work bench at home
[01:33] <KT5TK_QRL> indoors.
[01:34] <KT5TK_QRL> So it may have lost GPS
[01:34] <nigelvh> You say it's the Argent high altitude GPS?
[01:34] <KT5TK_QRL> yes
[01:34] <nigelvh> That one picks up well inside here at my home.
[01:35] <KT5TK_QRL> Not very special, but I had one in my junk box
[01:35] <nigelvh> Hey, they're cheap and they work. Not a whole lot to complain about.
[01:36] <KT5TK_QRL> yes, I just don't trust the coin battery.
[01:36] <KT5TK_QRL> In my code I usually switch the GPS on and off
[01:36] <nigelvh> I see.
[01:36] <nigelvh> BTW, is your SDR connected to an outside antenna?
[01:36] <KT5TK_QRL> So I didn't want to rely on the batt backup
[01:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, a long wire. Not very sensitive though
[01:40] <nigelvh> Perhaps so. I just transmitted on 14060 and didn't see anything come up.
[01:40] <KT5TK_QRL> Legal power? :)
[01:41] <nigelvh> I don't have a 1.5KW transmitter, no. But I did try 100W
[01:42] <Darkside> argent high altitude gps..
[01:42] <nigelvh> Also my antenna isn't all that great either.
[01:42] <Darkside> isn't that just a lassen iq?
[01:43] <Darkside> hrmm 'prolific' gps chipset
[01:44] <nigelvh> Darkside, apparently they got the supplier to put special firmware on them to allow higher use.
[01:44] <KT5TK_QRL> No it's Sirf based I believe
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[01:44] <Darkside> ahh
[01:44] <Darkside> i still prefer ublox
[01:45] <Darkside> cheaper than that module too
[01:45] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm a little worried that when the coin cell is going out it may forget about the altitude firmware
[01:45] <Darkside> it shouldn't
[01:45] <KT5TK_QRL> I prefer uBlox Max-8 too
[01:45] <nigelvh> I wouldn't think that would be the case.
[01:45] <Darkside> its firmware..
[01:46] <KT5TK_QRL> Or maybe still software :)
[01:47] <KT5TK_QRL> depends if you define firm = company or firm = hard
[01:49] <nigelvh> I think a setup like what you've got there would be great for WSPR.
[01:50] <KT5TK_QRL> @Darkside Testing my PSK31 beacon http://tkrahn.dyndns.org:8901 14.070 MHz
[01:51] <KT5TK_QRL> Don't you need an internet connection for WSPR?
[01:51] <KT5TK_QRL> I mean the balloon doesn't have that.
[01:51] <nigelvh> You can set up a transmit only wspr station, and the recieve stations will upload the spots.
[01:52] <KT5TK_QRL> I have no experience with WSPR. May need to look into that.
[01:52] <nigelvh> It's pretty neat
[01:53] <nigelvh> Really low baud rate, low power, propagation experimentation sorta dealie.
[01:53] <KT5TK_QRL> I'll have the websdr on when we launch this Saturday. So y'all can track.
[01:54] <nigelvh> Are you gonna be on 14.070?
[01:54] <KT5TK_QRL> yes, 14.0705 to be precise
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[01:54] <KT5TK_QRL> The websdr is a little of
[01:54] <KT5TK_QRL> off
[01:55] <nigelvh> Perhaps I'll leave my rig on here and see if I pick up anything.
[01:55] <KT5TK_QRL> Sure. Will depend on DX conditions.
[01:55] <nigelvh> When you launching?
[01:56] <KT5TK_QRL> http://w5acm.net/b31.html
[01:56] <KT5TK_QRL> Around 11 AM CST
[01:56] <nigelvh> I like the artist's conception.
[01:57] <KT5TK_QRL> Look through Andy's page. It's full of such things
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[01:58] <KT5TK_QRL> We always meet at Hinze's BBQ after launches. So the goal is that the balloon lands right in that backyard.
[01:59] <KT5TK_QRL> which is 5 miles from the launch site...
[01:59] <nigelvh> Convenient.
[01:59] <nigelvh> Assuming you don't have to chase too far.
[01:59] <nigelvh> Also looks like Andy has some fun with photoshop.
[02:00] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, we don't take the hobby too seriously..
[02:03] <nigelvh> Yeah, one of these days I'll have to launch one myself. Most of the time I just tack payloads onto the UW balloons. (I volunteer with the class)
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[02:18] <Lunar_Lander_> KT5TK_QRL, do you have results of your flights too?
[02:18] <Lunar_Lander_> the website only has general info as I see it
[02:19] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, we should be better with summing up the results.
[02:19] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[02:19] <KT5TK_QRL> Not much more than that and a couple of videos
[02:19] <Lunar_Lander_> do you fly amateur radio equipment or also other instrument?
[02:19] <Lunar_Lander_> *instruments
[02:20] <KT5TK_QRL> Mainly repeaters, but our group also flew a sattellite prototype for testing on an earlier balloon
[02:22] <KT5TK_QRL> http://w5acm.net/b24.html
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[02:23] <nigelvh> KT5TK_QRL, here's my latest schematic. Also, I've just decided I'm going to call the transmitter Iris. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Iris_SCH.png
[02:24] <KT5TK_QRL> RF path looks better. Much better
[02:24] <nigelvh> Wikipedia says Iris "is the personification of the rainbow and messenger of the gods. She is also known as one of the goddesses of the sea and the sky. Iris links the gods to humanity. She travels with the speed of wind from one end of the world to the other, and into the depths of the sea and the underworld."
[02:24] <nigelvh> Seems fitting.
[02:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Hopefully more the sky than the sea ;)
[02:25] <KT5TK_QRL> Nice name...
[02:25] <nigelvh> Yes. We don't have much sea around our launch site, but a lake or two.
[02:26] <nigelvh> Yeah, I've decided to go single filter and just make the modules as interchangable as possible.
[02:26] <nigelvh> Then I'll just set up a given module for a given band.
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[02:27] <KT5TK_QRL> Dual band might be ok. Just need separate LPFs at the PA output.
[02:27] <KT5TK_QRL> Why do you use band pass instead of LPF?
[02:28] <nigelvh> Because I didn't want to redo my whole filter stuff, so I just chopped out the extra bands and left a single band pass.
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[02:29] <KT5TK_QRL> A LPF has likely a lower loss at working frequency.
[02:29] <nigelvh> Also, it's convenient as all the filters for different bands share half the components. So to swap a band, I only have to change out three of the six.
[02:30] <KT5TK_QRL> and there is no tx signal below the working freq
[02:30] <nigelvh> True.
[02:32] <KT5TK_QRL> You could always stack 0602 caps and inductors on top of each other if you need to.
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[02:33] <nigelvh> Ouch.
[02:34] <KT5TK_QRL> From HF perspective that's actually the best solution
[02:34] <nigelvh> Agreed.
[02:34] <nigelvh> From a my sanity perspective, I'm less certain.
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[02:35] <nigelvh> "Stack this grain of sand on top of that other grain of sand, and solder them together"
[02:35] <KT5TK_QRL> That's all the fun about it.
[02:36] <nigelvh> That's one way to put it.
[02:38] <KT5TK_QRL> I've also connected MUXOUT to the micro with a wire now. Helpful for diagnostics.
[02:39] <KT5TK_QRL> ADC3 on the atmega
[02:39] <KT5TK_QRL> Still don't understand all the MUXOUT modes
[02:41] <nigelvh> What about them?
[02:41] <nigelvh> Looks relatively straightforward.
[02:42] <nigelvh> That said I'm only looking at the datasheet, not an actual device.
[02:42] <KT5TK_QRL> When I use R DIVIDER/2 OUTPUT I get the original 20 MHz from the VCXO
[02:42] <KT5TK_QRL> when I use RF R DIVIDER OUTPUT I still get 20 MHz
[02:43] <KT5TK_QRL> Sorry, R DIVIDER/2 OUTPUT is 10 MHz
[02:43] <nigelvh> That sounds like more of an R Divider issue than the muxout.
[02:43] <KT5TK_QRL> So what is ANALOG LOCK DETECT?
[02:43] <KT5TK_QRL> I permanently get a high output
[02:44] <KT5TK_QRL> 1023 on the ADC
[02:44] <nigelvh> I only see Digital Lock Detect, R Divider, Regulator Ready, and Battery Voltage Readback
[02:44] <KT5TK_QRL> Page 27
[02:45] <nigelvh> Hmm... I see that there in the register, but it's not referenced on page 16.
[02:45] <nigelvh> Have you tried the digital one?
[02:46] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, but always low. no lock.
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[02:46] <nigelvh> Maybe that's what high on the analog one means.
[02:46] <nigelvh> Maybe in analog closer to zero is a closer lock?
[02:46] <nigelvh> Assuming that's not just a holdover from another datasheet they accidentally included.
[02:47] <KT5TK_QRL> could be. Just couldn't figure that out
[02:48] <KT5TK_QRL> Also there is no documentation about the Prescaler and the
[02:48] <KT5TK_QRL> CRYSTAL DOUBLER
[02:49] <nigelvh> YAY DATASHEETS!
[02:49] <nigelvh> Or perhaps they should be called GuessSheets
[02:49] <KT5TK_QRL> don't know what prescaler 4/5 means
[02:50] <KT5TK_QRL> Is that for the RF clock or for the baudrate clock?
[02:51] <nigelvh> Magic.
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[08:14] <costyn> morn'
[08:15] <costyn> I am quite nervous about the launch on sunday :)
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[08:16] <fsphil> that's normal :)
[08:17] <costyn> i have no idea if I got my antenna right; is there any way to test how good it is?
[08:18] <fsphil> do you have an swr meter?
[08:18] <costyn> no
[08:19] <gonzo_> test the ant on the AHB or the ground rx?
[08:19] <fsphil> only other thing I can think of is doing a range test
[08:19] <gonzo_> HAB
[08:19] <fsphil> but you don't have many high places there
[08:19] <daveake> What I did on my 1st flight was leave the payload at home, and drive down the road to see how far away I could still decode
[08:20] <costyn> ok that sounds like something I can do
[08:20] <daveake> Problem is, any little hills in the way will stop the signal, but for you perhaps that's not an issue :)
[08:21] <costyn> well I live in a dense residential neighborhood so there will be quite a bit of concrete in the way
[08:21] <gonzo_> on the HAB antenna, as long as the main element length is about the right length (even +-10mm is not going to make a huge difference) and you have not shorted it to ground (at the ant end or the TX end) with soldering, then it should be fine
[08:21] <daveake> yep
[08:22] <costyn> gonzo_: ok, that sounds like what I have
[08:22] <costyn> and I tested for shorts
[08:22] <gonzo_> as dave said, if you can still hear it a few 100mtrs away, then you have a working ant
[08:22] <daveake> Just make sure it's all connected and not shorted
[08:22] <costyn> ok, will test that before launch
[08:22] <fsphil> and ideally make sure it's not fragile
[08:22] <fsphil> launching an antenna that falls apart after launch is silly and nobody would do that honest it wasn't my fault
[08:23] <costyn> fsphil: well I have a small fiberglass tube (used for kites) which I was planning to use, but people here said it was better to use a straw :)
[08:23] <costyn> fsphil: :D
[08:23] <gonzo_> the other thing that you could test is the pattern. I did mine by putting it on the garden table on it's side and walking around with the RX with no antenna (on my rx that is)
[08:23] <fsphil> a straw would be less spike of death
[08:23] <costyn> gonzo_: clever
[08:23] <costyn> fsphil: yes
[08:23] <daveake> Indeed. One of mine broke off during descent, at a soldered joint
[08:23] <gonzo_> gave a reasonable idea of any nulls and where the signal was going, in elevattion
[08:25] <gonzo_> I used a straw too. The ant element was a bit of 16/0.2 wire, soldered directly to the NTX2. And the groung plane wires similar, but they were just strung out in the payload
[08:25] <fsphil> I had the ground plane taped under some duct tape
[08:25] <gonzo_> the ant element poking out through the bottom. (sealed of course)
[08:25] <costyn> mine is RG15
[08:26] <costyn> 158*
[08:26] <costyn> http://imgur.com/a/PrsuH#3
[08:26] <costyn> (without straw here)
[08:27] <daveake> Sealing is important, as Steve said in the mailing list you don't want cold air coming in during descent. You also don't want salt water coming in after a sea landing :-)
[08:28] <costyn> well there's another layer of foam between the top of the antenna slab and the contents of the payload
[08:28] <gonzo_> could get bent easilly. A straw would be a good addition
[08:29] <costyn> yes I will definitely add a straw, it's just htat a rigid straw makes it hard to put the payload down anywhere to work on it :)
[08:29] <daveake> Yep. Or pipe insulation. That's good.
[08:29] <costyn> so that's one of the last additions
[08:30] <gonzo_> yep, that's what I did. Superglued before launch
[08:30] <gonzo_> (and in the rush, forgot to add the camera payload!)
[08:30] <daveake> !!
[08:30] <costyn> oops
[08:31] <daveake> Add that to the "things not to do" page in the wiki :)
[08:31] <gonzo_> not that it went very far. So prob didn't miss much
[08:31] <gonzo_> realised when it was just a few feet up
[08:31] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:things_not_to_do
[08:32] <costyn> daveake: that bit about measuring the neck-lift has me worried
[08:32] <daveake> All of those are mine, except for the "or the payload" bit which was fsphil :)
[08:32] <daveake> You need no wind, or neearly no wind. Usually even in windy conditions there are quiet moments
[08:33] <costyn> well usually outside on a field it's hard to get no or little wind
[08:33] <daveake> Wind can lift the balloon, either by making it act like a sail, or by the wind going upwards when it meets a wall or something. So you end up thinking there's more lift than there is
[08:34] <costyn> makes sense
[08:34] <Darkside> :-)
[08:34] <Darkside> if you can, fill in a garage
[08:34] <Darkside> or some other sheltered space
[08:34] <daveake> Even with some wind, if you let go (briefly) of the balloon, it can travel with the wind and you can then watch to see if it's staying level or not
[08:34] <costyn> yes, but unfortunately I don't have that option
[08:35] <costyn> daveake: staying level = bad right?
[08:35] <Darkside> costyn: then fill some water bottles with water
[08:35] <daveake> = good
[08:35] <costyn> ooh with weights attched
[08:35] <Darkside> fill the bottles with enough water to match the neck lift you want
[08:35] <daveake> You want the balloon, with the added "neck lift" weight, to not go up or down
[08:35] <Darkside> when tis neutrally buoyant, thats the right lift
[08:35] <daveake> So say the calculator says you want 2.5kg of lift, and your filler is 500g, then you need a water bottle weighing 2kg
[08:36] <costyn> yes understood :) just wondering how to get it right when there's wind
[08:36] <Darkside> daveake: i'll have to get you a cutdown pcb somehow
[08:36] <daveake> I write the filler weight on the hose
[08:36] <Darkside> so i can get you to make a box for it :-)
[08:36] <costyn> i don't actually ahve a filler, just a hose
[08:36] <costyn> Tim did both his with just a hose which seemed to work fine
[08:36] <daveake> Darkside One that I transmit to, with the ham licence that I do not yet have?
[08:36] <Darkside> daveake: ism band
[08:37] <Darkside> you can test with 10mW just fine :-)
[08:37] <daveake> :)
[08:38] <daveake> costyn Sure but the hose hassome weight. Not that it matters much for a typical photo payload but if you're aiming for an altitude record with a tiny payload it very much does matter :)
[08:38] <costyn> daveake: yes :)
[08:39] <daveake> My H2 filler uses quite heavy acetylene hose, total weight several 100 grams
[08:39] <daveake> The weight is marked with a line at one point on the hose. When that poiint starts to lift, that's the equivalent weight.
[08:40] <daveake> My ascent rates with that have been on the mark, so I trust it
[08:40] <Darkside> daveake: i think the biggest annoyance with this board is goign to be rigging the nichrome wire
[08:41] <Darkside> and rigging it so you can connect another payload below it
[08:41] <daveake> Yep
[08:41] <Darkside> i think you've seen how we do it
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[08:42] <daveake> yep
[08:42] <Darkside> but that box is hueg
[08:42] <Darkside> and thats the 6xaa version
[08:42] <Darkside> lol
[08:42] <Darkside> if all goes well, this'll be 2xAA only
[08:42] <Darkside> and might even have a gps
[08:42] <daveake> Nearly as bad as Lunar's 6Ah battery :)
[08:42] <Darkside> :P
[08:42] <Darkside> yup
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[08:43] <JD23793> Hi guys
[08:45] <JD23793> I would like to whine about the FSA03 GPS module some more...
[08:47] <JD23793> I have it hooked up on a breadboard, powered by a lab PSU at 3.3V, with 100nF and 10µF decoupling caps near the module, and connected to a 9k6 serial terminal. It won't acquire lock, even thought it has clear view of the sky. Any ideas where to look?
[08:48] <fsphil> sounds like it's properly broke
[08:50] <JD23793> I agree, only I have 3 modules and all three behave the same.
[08:50] <daveake> Probably the aerial has been knocked at some point. It's really easy to do that and break the track next to the centre pin
[08:50] <JD23793> Probably shouldn't play the lottery today with that kind of luck...
[08:50] <daveake> I've fixed 2 like that with a single strand of flexible wire carefully soldered on :)
[08:51] <daveake> The FSA03 should get a lock even with a sniff of the sky
[08:51] <JD23793> I know that connection is flakey, but THAT sensitive... I took it out of it's original packaging, soldered power and serial wires and tested it right away... I'll take a look at the antenna connection.
[08:52] <daveake> No should be OK from what you've said
[08:52] <JD23793> I am frustrated as hell, I've been troubleshooting a gps module that should essentially be plug-and-play for the last week...
[08:52] <daveake> Test with a meter
[08:52] <JD23793> Continuity test you mean?
[08:52] <JD23793> Between antenna and trace?
[08:52] <daveake> There's a little cap on the board. Stick a probe on that and the other on the antenna pin
[08:53] <JD23793> Ok, bear with me while I take a look.
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[08:53] <daveake> np
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[08:56] <JD23793> I've tested between the antenna's center pin and the antenna side of the input capacitor; 0.3 ohms. Looks ok.
[08:57] <daveake> OK, so you're testing by watching the NMEA strings and waiting for that to show a valid position?
[08:57] <daveake> And it has a clear view of the sky you said
[08:57] <JD23793> But looking at that trace, maybe it's better to solder a bridge wire between the pin and the cap anyway...
[08:57] <daveake> And anything nearby that's transmitting?
[08:57] <daveake> Well I do, because sooner or later it'll break :p
[08:58] <JD23793> Yes, I can see empty NMEA strings come in but no lock. And I am on a picknick table on the lawn, so almost 360° of clear sky.
[08:58] <daveake> oh
[08:58] <daveake> wow
[08:58] <daveake> You should have lock pretty quickly
[08:58] <daveake> How long have you waited?
[08:59] <JD23793> And the only things I have near it are a HX1-144.800 module that doesn't have power connected, and a laptop with wifi disabled. And a lab PSU which shouldn't jam. My phone get a solid lock.
[08:59] <daveake> It might be downloading that thing that I never remember the name of, than can take some time
[08:59] <costyn> agps ?
[08:59] <zyp> almanac/ephemeris
[08:59] <JD23793> I've waited for at least half an hour since last power down, have tried running it overnight yesterday to no avail.
[08:59] <daveake> ^^
[08:59] <costyn> oh that yes
[08:59] <zyp> shouldn't take more than a few minutes at most in good conditions
[09:00] <JD23793> The datasheet says it should get lock within 30sec from cold start... I am patient so I give it half an hour :-)
[09:00] <zyp> JD23793, did you try interpreting the strings? do you get time fix?
[09:00] <costyn> more than patient enough :)
[09:00] <JD23793> No, there empty.
[09:00] <zyp> I was doing some testing indoors once, I got time fix but not position
[09:01] <JD23793> $GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53 $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30 $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48 $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*30 $GPGSV,1,1,00*79 $GPGLL,,,,,,V,N*64
[09:01] <daveake> Probably worth running the uCenter software to see what that says
[09:02] <JD23793> I am beginning to wonder if I got 3 modules out of a faulty batch :-(
[09:02] <JD23793> I've ran u-center but don't know what to look for. Any pointers?
[09:02] <daveake> Me? No .... can't remember anything about it :-). But presumably it shows what sats it can see?
[09:02] <Darkside> JD23793: that isn't seeing any sats
[09:03] <Darkside> which isn't good
[09:03] <JD23793> Number of sats should also be in the NMEA GPVTG string I believe
[09:03] <Darkside> GPGSV tells you info too though
[09:03] <Darkside> and there ain't much in that GPGSV line
[09:04] <JD23793> I am out of ideas :-(
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[09:04] <JD23793> Let me try hooking up that 3d module without soldering, perhaps ESD killed it (although I would doubt it, I am using a good soldering/rework station and take precautions).
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[09:06] <JD23793> Thanks for the pointers, I'll be back to report my imminent failure :-)
[09:09] <fsphil> ye of little faith :p
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[09:22] <JD23793> Ok, we're making progress here...
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[09:22] <daveake> :-) ......
[09:23] <JD23793> I've botched up a connection to the 3d, previously untouched, module on the breadboard and this one is reporting sats...
[09:23] <JD23793> The only difference with the other modules is that I didn't solder to this one.
[09:24] <daveake> I probably missed a bit of info further back ... what's this "3d" module? I only saw you mentioned 3 FSA03s
[09:25] <daveake> -ed
[09:25] <UpuWork> is it an FSA03 or one of my modules ?
[09:25] <JD23793> I mean the 3d FSA03 gps module
[09:25] <JD23793> as in third
[09:25] <daveake> Aaaaah
[09:25] <daveake> Penny drops
[09:25] <fsphil> 3rd
[09:26] <JD23793> When I fry my 6th module I'll refer to is as my '6dof' module to confuse you even more :-)
[09:26] <costyn> thanks
[09:26] <daveake> That will work :)
[09:27] <JD23793> Got a solid fix now, 7 sats... I'll be damned...
[09:27] <daveake> So on the one that refuses to get a lock, you just have 0V, 3.3V and Tx connected?
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[09:28] <JD23793> Yep.
[09:28] <daveake> Seems to be broke then. Any solder splashes on it?
[09:28] <JD23793> No, and I solder under a magnifying lamp so should see them.
[09:29] <JD23793> Could it really be that I fried them by soldering 3 wires to the pads?
[09:29] <daveake> Well I've never managed to kill one yet.
[09:29] <JD23793> That would give a new meaning to "ESD sensitive"...
[09:30] <JD23793> Anyone ever receive a bad batch of FSA03's?
[09:30] <daveake> It's strange as it's talking NMEA. Usually if it's doing that but not getting a lock then it's the antenna (or being indoors with no windows)
[09:31] <daveake> As for interference, I've had one not many mm away from an rfm22b, and it was fine
[09:33] <JD23793> True, although it seams the receiver front end would be the most sensitive to ESD, so maybe that's gone and the processor is still working & sending NMEA...
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[09:34] <JD23793> Oh well, I'll heat up the soldering station and unplug it when I solder this module just to be sure...
[09:34] <daveake> Though you weren't soldering to the front end
[09:34] <UpuWork> if you're not getting time its the antenna really
[09:34] <JD23793> Perhaps, I guess I'll never know. Although I will attempt the bridgewire from antenna to input cap and see if that works.
[09:35] <daveake> Well if it measures a short you should be OK, but as it's not working you have nothing to lose
[09:35] <JD23793> Maybe I'll attempt to send back the 2 faulty modules
[09:36] <JD23793> It doesn't sound like I've whacked them by soldering. After all, the datasheet says to only solder by hand, which I did.
[09:36] <gonzo_> looking at the pics of that module, is the feed out from the antenna coaxial? I can see a center connector and what looks like an outer shield soldered to wings on the pcp?
[09:36] <gonzo_> pcb
[09:36] <gonzo_> or is that all one contact?
[09:36] <JD23793> I wouldn't call it coaxial, but it has a center pin flanked by two GND connections.
[09:37] <JD23793> The antenna connection on mine is different from the
[09:37] <gonzo_> Just wondering if it';s coaxial, some over zealous person in assembly may have blobbed the antenna short
[09:37] <JD23793> pictues your see on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[09:37] <UpuWork> you can tidy that up its quite easy to solder
[09:37] <JD23793> Worth a shot, I'll measure the center pin resistance to ground.
[09:38] <Darkside> careful wiht that
[09:38] <daveake> What can happen, if you drop the thing on the floor or pick it up quickly by the antenna, is that centre pin lifts the track from the PCB, breaking the very very thin line that goes to the capacitor
[09:38] <Darkside> dc voltage on the input can kill some things
[09:38] <UpuWork> just buy them from me next time...
[09:38] <daveake> :)
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[09:39] <UpuWork> anyone used a Trackuino and know if you could swap the Venus GPS for a uBLOX 6 ?
[09:40] <JD23793> center pin resistance to ground > 20MOhm, so no short there. But is was worth a shot :-)
[09:40] <JD23793> Darkside: DC to the input, you mean the antenna input?
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[09:46] <gonzo_> worth testing the continuity of the track between the ant and that first decoupling cap?
[09:46] <daveake> He did earlier :-)
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[09:48] <JD23793> Yes, I measure about 0,3 Ohms, which is probably 0 Ohms of the track + 0,3 Ohm of connection loss :-)
[09:49] <DrLuke> JD23793: get a 4-wire multimeter for measuring resistances
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[09:51] <daveake> It's an antenna not a power line. How much of a short it is hardly matters!
[09:52] <gonzo_> Sounds like you have tested everything that is easilly testable
[09:53] <gonzo_> wonder if there could be some local interfering noise?? That it stopping it get lock?
[09:53] <costyn> gonzo_: but then the other unit wouldn't work either
[09:53] <UpuWork> it would
[09:53] <costyn> would?
[09:53] <gonzo_> thought he said that this is the 3rd to fail?
[09:54] <JD23793> Nono, the first 2 failed, the 3rd one works
[09:54] <costyn> 1 and 2 don't work, 3 does (if I understood)
[09:54] <daveake> He has 3 units 1 of which works
[09:54] <JD23793> Bad odds :-)
[09:54] <daveake> All in (pretty much) the same place
[09:55] <daveake> which is in the middle of a garden
[09:55] <JD23793> Oh well, I've got one that works, so that's progress :-)
[09:55] <daveake> :)
[09:55] <gonzo_> as uou says, buy from him next time
[09:55] <gonzo_> upu
[09:56] <JD23793> I'll keep that in mind :-)
[09:56] <JD23793> So on to the APRS testing... Thanks for the help and ideas guys, it's really appreciated!
[09:57] <JD23793> Gotta feed a hungry baby now, so until next time!
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[10:19] <Laurenceb_> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/229190_406177729432041_2115354626_n.jpg
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[10:34] <DrLuke> haha
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[10:58] <upix> hello
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[11:05] <costyn> hehehe
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[14:39] <DrLuke> hey guys, how's it going?
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> OK
[14:41] <fsphil> exceptional
[14:41] <Randomskk> singular.
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> I just caught myself working out if then1m cubed rubble bags I got would float with h2.
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> they would, neglecting having 5 sides
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[14:52] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/simrun/griffonbot]
[14:52] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
[14:52] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[14:56] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
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[15:00] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: check the mailing list
[15:01] <eroomde> your favourite project now in ukhas
[15:01] <Randomskk> :D I just saw that too
[15:01] <Randomskk> he's coming to the conference!
[15:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
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[15:02] <eroomde> well, cool tho!
[15:02] <eroomde> proper hab experiments
[15:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Adrian Hicks "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
[15:03] <eroomde> with unweildy things and launchy bits and pyros and cardboard
[15:06] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
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[15:08] <griffonbot> @steamfire: Ouch - a satellite uplink typo commanded accidental destruction of 100 superpressure scientific balloons in 1971's EOLE experiment #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/235754779182239745]
[15:08] <eroomde> we've all been there
[15:08] <DrLuke> upu/upuwork: "alot of knowledge": http://i48.tinypic.com/r94hvd.png
[15:08] <DrLuke> couldn't resist, sorry
[15:09] <UpuWork> sigh
[15:09] <DrLuke> :P
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[15:10] <fsphil> you've met alot?
[15:10] <DrLuke> Yes, I've met alot
[15:11] <griffonbot> @kylehotchkiss: RT @steamfire: Ouch - a satellite uplink typo commanded accidental destruction of 100 superpressure scientific balloons in 1971's EOLE e ... [http://twitter.com/kylehotchkiss/status/235755644026748928]
[15:12] <daveake> Have you met alot aplenty?
[15:12] <DrLuke> :P
[15:12] <eroomde> i read that as kylie hot chicks
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[15:15] <kokey> i read what you wrote and perked up
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[15:19] <griffonbot> Received email: barnacle "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
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[16:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Christopher Atherton "Re: [UKHAS] An introduction"
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[16:57] <domlin> evening guys :)
[16:58] <Upu> evening
[16:58] <domlin> how are you, Upu? :)
[16:58] Action: Upu check domlin for Lunar Landyness
[16:59] <Upu> hot
[16:59] <Upu> tbh
[16:59] <Upu> and just about to make some food
[16:59] <Upu> other than that fine an dandy
[16:59] <domlin> ah very nice :)
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[16:59] <domlin> with chris stubbs atm, we saw a numberplate ending in "UPU" and obviously thought of you.
[16:59] <Upu> lol
[17:00] <Upu> I'm off to cook bbl
[17:01] <domlin> okay, something lovely i hope?
[17:01] <Upu> fish pie
[17:01] <Upu> afk
[17:05] <DrLuke> mhh pie
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[17:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Matt "[UKHAS] Re: HAM-1 Launch Announcement for 10:30am Saturday 18th
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[17:19] <eroomde> jcoxon: ardingly!
[17:19] <eroomde> we know a good spot to track from near there :)
[17:20] <jcoxon> we do?
[17:20] <jcoxon> oh right
[17:21] <jcoxon> yes i remember
[17:21] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54A07059.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:34] <DrLuke> hey lunar_lander
[17:34] <DrLuke> what do you think about this: http://i50.tinypic.com/212y7o7.png ?
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> what does it mean?
[17:34] <DrLuke> Black Forest Frontiers
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[17:36] <DrLuke> I need to put some trees on the hillish thing
[17:36] <DrLuke> and then smooth out the edges of the sun beams
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, today I did the voltage measurements
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> I did as you said
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[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> I removed the sensor and attached the batteries to the board
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> I got 0 Volts at the socket
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> then I plugged in the sensor and got the same voltage
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> 0 Volts at the socket
[17:44] <eroomde> ok. and the regulator output in either case?
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[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> 3.299 V
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> in both cases
[17:45] <eroomde> ok
[17:45] <eroomde> so where do you think the problem might be?
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> that is a good question, the sensor was in the correct way
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[17:47] <eroomde> but Lunar_Lander, sensor or no sensor, no voltage was getting to the socket
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> so something on the way to the socket must be the problem
[17:48] <eroomde> indeed
[17:48] <eroomde> so, did you test for continuity between the socket VCC and your VCC rail?
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
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[17:49] <eroomde> erm, is that not an obvious thing to do?
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[17:51] <eroomde> you were sat there with a multimeter, you saw that voltage wasn't getting to the socket, you therefore suspected that there might be an issue with the connection... what did you think at the time
[17:51] <eroomde> 'ah, it is a mystery. the end'
[17:51] <eroomde> ?
[17:51] <eroomde> I just don;t understand
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[17:55] <eroomde> i shouldn't have to say this, all of this should be obvious and the whole thing should take 20 minutes rather than 20 days. but, i will say it anyway
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[17:56] <eroomde> it sounds like you have a dodgy connection between your VCC line and the VCC to your socket
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for that
[17:57] <eroomde> well, don't be sorry, that doesn't really help. just try and think stuff through at the time.
[17:58] <eroomde> surely, you see that you have 3.3V at your vcc rail but 0V at your socket VCC. that surely implies to you that they might not be electrically connected?
[17:58] <eroomde> so it's a logical next step to test that connection
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[17:59] <eroomde> you can do this. you're doing a physics degree! you're clearly bright enough
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[18:00] <eroomde> you just need to force yourself to try and think 'what could cause what I am seeing' and then figure out a way to test it
[18:01] <eroomde> is there no one you can ask locally to you? what about the guy you're working with who did the stripboard layout?
[18:01] <eroomde> it can help to have someone sat next to you, 2 heads infront of a problem can often get to the answer more quickly
[18:02] <upix> is raspberry pi out of stock globally?
[18:02] <eroomde> pretty much
[18:03] <upix> anyone of you had a hold of it?
[18:03] <fsphil> they've not caught up with the initial demand just yet
[18:03] <eroomde> a few of us have pis
[18:04] <fsphil> a few have more than one
[18:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter Browne "[UKHAS] HAM-1"
[18:05] <upix> are they just as computer or you can use it uC type of way?
[18:05] <fsphil> HAM .. high altitude mustard
[18:05] <eroomde> upix: i guess
[18:05] <fsphil> both sorta
[18:05] <eroomde> a lot of overlap into microcontroller stuff
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[18:05] <eroomde> but still a normal pc-like linux environment
[18:05] <upix> I mean is it all linux or is there a posibility to access GPIO directly?
[18:05] <fsphil> yes :)
[18:05] <eroomde> that question doesn't make sense
[18:06] <eroomde> that's not a dichotomy
[18:06] <eroomde> it is all linux
[18:06] <eroomde> and you can access io directly
[18:06] <upix> well you can't access GPIO directly in regular OS
[18:06] <eroomde> yes you can
[18:06] <eroomde> just fine
[18:06] <upix> or at least I haven't heard of it
[18:07] <eroomde> there you go ^
[18:07] <fsphil> a lot of the stuff in PCs are controlled through gpios
[18:07] <fsphil> leds and the like
[18:07] <eroomde> 'how to write a linux driver 101' always uses how to wiggle parallel port pins, for example
[18:08] <eroomde> probably less so nowadays with parallel ports dying off
[18:09] <upix> what about delays, in uC you can toggle GPIO and wait as accurately as your frequency lets you, while OS'es tend to have restrictions on timing accuracy
[18:10] <fsphil> linux not so good at timing
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, OK, thanks
[18:10] <Gadget-Mac> Evening all
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[18:10] <eroomde> You'll get there Lunar_Lander. but you MUST start thinking more autonomously
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[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:10] <eroomde> or it will just never hapen
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:11] <eroomde> remember, you're up to it, yu have undisputable evidence that you can do the problem solving, cos you're doing the degree! just need to apply it to this
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:12] <eroomde> right, time for me to go
[18:12] <eroomde> keep at it
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> will do
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again
[18:12] <eroomde> 'what would eroomde say?'. maybe write that on a post-it note and put it on your workbench
[18:13] <eroomde> every time you measure something and see something interesting, look at the note
[18:13] <eroomde> then imagine what eroomde would say, then remove all the angry bits
[18:13] <eroomde> then go for it
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> good idea
[18:14] <eroomde> right, bbl
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> cu
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[18:15] <DrLuke> lunar: http://i45.tinypic.com/atkz1u.png
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[18:17] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Fwd: ARHAB 25th anniversary celebration balloon flight this weekend"
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[18:18] <DrLuke> holy shit, 20 meter?
[18:20] <jcoxon> DrLuke, yeah would be fun
[18:20] <jcoxon> i'm going to clear the tracker
[18:22] <upix> fsphil: how much of free will do you have on raspberry when it comes to accessing GPIOs and alike directly. Can you GPIO configure direction, pull-up/down resistors, enter different power modes, setups interrupts, change runtime frequency etc etc
[18:24] <DrLuke> yes
[18:24] <DrLuke> you can directly manipulate the registers to control them
[18:24] <DrLuke> or use a wrapping library
[18:24] <DrLuke> or even python
[18:25] <DrLuke> python has an arduino-like style
[18:27] <DrLuke> upix: http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals#GPIO_Driving_Example_.28C.29
[18:28] <upix> ah very nice
[18:28] <fsphil> what DrLuke said :)
[18:28] <fsphil> now I haven't played with the hardware much beyond blinking an LED
[18:29] <DrLuke> I'm a bit angry about the i2c drivers not being in the standard images posted on the rpi website
[18:29] <upix> now I understand why there is a shortage of raspberry pies
[18:30] <DrLuke> spent a week trying to compile the newest kernel but ran into multiple code error and drive-space issues just so the image could self destruct itself for some reason unknown to me
[18:30] <DrLuke> yeah the RPi is neat
[18:30] <fsphil> I've had that happen
[18:30] <upix> can you compile on RP itself?
[18:30] <DrLuke> I wish they could just update the images on the website
[18:30] <DrLuke> yep
[18:30] <fsphil> yea
[18:30] <DrLuke> it's just as any other linux
[18:30] <fsphil> I've compiled gnuradio and dl-fldigi so far
[18:30] <DrLuke> is it fast enough for gnuradio?
[18:31] <fsphil> I don't know, the only source I have draws too much power
[18:31] <DrLuke> :/
[18:31] <fsphil> I've been meaning to bypass the fuses but haven't had the time
[18:31] <DrLuke> it would be amazing for portable yagis
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[18:31] <Gadget-Mac> DrLuke: I thought i2c was in the latest rasbian
[18:31] <DrLuke> gadget-mac: I prefer arch
[18:32] <DrLuke> mostly because of pacman, apt-get is such a messy thing
[18:32] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, don't want to get into a distrowar.
[18:32] <DrLuke> it's just my personal preference ;)
[18:32] <Gadget-Mac> Sure.
[18:32] <DrLuke> but you are right
[18:33] <Gadget-Mac> Is there a newer version of Arch available than is listed on the site ?
[18:33] <DrLuke> I don't really know
[18:33] <DrLuke> all I know is that there's a newer kernel available
[18:34] <Gadget-Mac> Maybe talk to people that are looking after that distro, don't forget it's a collaborative effort, not something that is being done soley by the foundation
[18:34] <DrLuke> meh
[18:35] Action: Gadget-Mac shrugs
[18:35] <DrLuke> I've tried
[18:35] <DrLuke> nobody even know what I want to do
[18:35] <DrLuke> most haven't heard of i2c before
[18:35] <Gadget-Mac> You're using the wrong distro then ;)
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[18:36] <DrLuke> well the only real choice is rasbian or arch-arm
[18:36] <DrLuke> and I can't stand rasbian, so I have to use arch
[18:37] <Gadget-Mac> I wanted i2c on pi, so got involved, did some intial work to get it started, and in the end got the guy who wrote the driver to write the driver :)
[18:37] <DrLuke> heh
[18:37] <Gadget-Mac> It's pretty cool, and for the main 'just works'
[18:37] <jcoxon> anyone thought of methods to put a rtl-sdr online
[18:37] <jcoxon> such as a globaltuner or websdr
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[18:40] <Gadget-Mac> jcoxon: interesting idea
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[18:42] <DrLuke> jcoxon: do you mean a sdr that can be controlled via the web, or one that uploads the raw samples to a server?
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[18:44] <DrLuke> because the first can be done easily, as gnuradio is built upon python
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[18:45] <jcoxon> controlled
[18:45] <jcoxon> DrLuke, good point
[18:45] <jcoxon> i'll have a play
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[18:45] <jcoxon> bbiab
[18:45] <DrLuke> you can just edit the python script
[18:46] <DrLuke> have fun
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[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> düdülüdüt
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[18:51] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
[18:51] Possible future nick collision: Upu
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[18:53] <fsphil> it should be possible to do something similar to the java websdr frontend, with html5 and some javascript
[18:53] <fsphil> then have gnuradio doing the server side stuff
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu fsphil
[18:53] <fsphil> hey Kev
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[18:54] <fsphil> ah, today is exactly 25 years after Bill's first flight in the US
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, it's amazing
[18:55] <Gadget-Mac> DrLuke: Stab in the dark does rpi-update work on the ARCH distro ?
[18:55] <DrLuke> yes
[18:56] spacekitteh (~spaec@unaffiliated/traumapony) got lost in the net-split.
[18:56] UpuWork (~Upu@2a02:b80:12:1:d4c0:c599:3103:f78d) got lost in the net-split.
[18:56] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) got lost in the net-split.
[18:56] juxta (~rootkit@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) got lost in the net-split.
[18:56] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@2a01:348:117::666) got lost in the net-split.
[18:56] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, that should get the i2c stuff ?
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[19:00] <DrLuke> no
[19:00] <DrLuke> the i2c drivers are kernel modules
[19:00] <DrLuke> so you need to recompile the kernel to have them in the kernel
[19:01] <Gadget-Mac> just load the module
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke, http://www.scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum-simplex/2012/08/atomunfalle-in-bestrahlungsanlagen.php
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> (in german only, sorry)
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[19:05] <DrLuke> cool
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[19:05] <DrLuke> nuclear catastrophes always are so much fun!
[19:06] <upix> why does RP B take much more current than A
[19:07] <DrLuke> maybe it has an electron leak?!
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[19:07] <upix> well the main difference I see is additional USB port and ETH
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[19:11] <daveake> ETH
[19:12] <daveake> That chip is by far the hottest on the board once the 3V3 reg is gone
[19:12] <daveake> About half the total consumption is there
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[19:22] <Gadget-Mac> upix: USB & ETH are the same chip :)
[19:23] <Gadget-Mac> DrLuke: Do you need the modules in the kernel initrd ?
[19:23] <upix> well yes
[19:26] <daveake> The A has USB. The A uses about 200mA vs 450 for the B.
[19:27] <Gadget-Mac> yeah A is just B without the hub and ethernet chip :)
[19:27] <upix> so it's the eth chip that takes the amps?
[19:31] <fsphil> ETH one has its advantages
[19:32] <Gadget-Mac> Yeah you can actually get them
[19:34] <upix> I am a bit confused about RP in wiki. It says (or I misinterpret) that they can output both 3.3 and 5V
[19:34] <Gadget-Mac> upix: Datasheet lists consumption at 100BASE-TX Full duplex as 213mA
[19:34] <Gadget-Mac> 3.3v and 5v is available on the GPIO header yes
[19:34] <Gadget-Mac> 3.3v is limited to ~50mA
[19:35] <daveake> So it says
[19:35] <daveake> Not actually true
[19:36] <Gadget-Mac> Oh ?
[19:36] <upix> So you have 3 state output GND, 3.3, 5 or you can choose a mode between 3.3 and 5?
[19:36] <upix> this is really unclear to me
[19:36] <daveake> The practical limit is how hot the 3V3 reg gets
[19:36] <Gadget-Mac> Nope. BCM outputs are 3v3
[19:37] <upix> so some pins are 3.3 and some 5V?
[19:37] <Gadget-Mac> The 5v is there purely as a connection to the pre 3v3 reg.
[19:38] <Gadget-Mac> Nope only 1 pin is 5v. The rest should all be treated as 3v3 io
[19:38] <daveake> 5V also supplies the USB
[19:38] <daveake> Also goes to the HDMI socket. Dunno what for.
[19:38] <Gadget-Mac> There are some reports of 5v input working, but it can't do the chip anygood.
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[19:39] <daveake> No, never a good idea unless an input is specified as 5V-tolerant
[19:39] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed. I know this, just reporting what other have done :)
[19:40] <mclane> hi has someone tried a moxon antennaon a balloon payload? Any experience?
[19:40] <daveake> I know. People do all sorts of silly things.
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[19:40] <Gadget-Mac> 5v on HDMI is part of the origional spec iirc, intended to provide power to some peripherals
[19:40] <eroomde> mclane: not as the antenna on the payload itself
[19:40] <eroomde> i don't think
[19:40] <eroomde> and i can't see that that would be anything other than a bad idea
[19:41] <eroomde> by jcoxon has used them to receive on the ground before
[19:41] <eroomde> partly because they have some nice properties and partle becoxon moxon rhymes with coxon
[19:41] <eroomde> because*
[19:42] <eroomde> i need to stop thinking ahead of my typing
[19:43] <jcoxon> the are super easy to make
[19:43] <jcoxon> 1 coathanger
[19:46] <mclane> too directive?
[19:46] <eroomde> yeah
[19:46] <eroomde> you want the energy coming radially outwards
[19:46] <eroomde> not down towards the ground
[19:46] <eroomde> and the elevation pattern is just wierd
[19:46] <eroomde> http://dx-antennas.com/Pictures%20antennas/M4/M4%20standard%20Elevation%20plot%2020m.png
[19:46] <eroomde> that's not the kind of thing you want on a balloon rocking around
[19:47] <jcoxon> oh right, yes its not great for a ballooon
[19:47] <mclane> ah, I see many side lobes gives a varying signal
[19:48] <eroomde> yeah, a receiving station might be going in and out of nulls several times a second if the payload was swinging
[19:48] <eroomde> which is going to make signal copy a bit harder
[19:49] <eroomde> but as james says, a nice thing to try on the ground!
[19:51] <eroomde> worth a read generally: http://web.archive.org/web/20110719212649/http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000702/
[19:52] <eroomde> not about antennas, but debugging mars rovers
[19:52] <mclane> other question: did someone try to dampen the payload rotation?
[19:52] <eroomde> mclane: it's been tried yep. i don;t know all the ways, but we've certainly had a go
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[19:53] <mclane> e.g. by a kind of boom with a "sail" (I do not know a good englich word)
[19:55] <eroomde> yes
[19:55] <eroomde> mclane: http://vimeo.com/3803248
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[20:01] <mclane> looks quite heavy
[20:02] <eroomde> don't recall. not that heavy though
[20:02] <eroomde> maybe 1.5kg?
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[20:08] <mclane> my weight budget is more in the 150 g range...
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[20:09] <eroomde> ah right
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[20:09] <mclane> so I think about 2 balsa wood rods with a sheet of balsa wood which points sideways
[20:09] <eroomde> yep might help
[20:09] <eroomde> why do u want stabilisation?
[20:10] <mclane> I want to have a nice video
[20:13] <mclane> the vidoe with rotation makes me seasick ;-)
[20:13] <eroomde> a) you might be stable enough anyway
[20:13] <eroomde> b) why the limit of 150g?
[20:13] <mclane> I mean video..
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[20:14] <daveake> Record at 60fps and play back at 30? :)
[20:14] <mclane> the payload without stabilization weights already 700g and I want to stay below 1kg in order to be able to use a 1200g balloon
[20:15] <eroomde> there's a step of explanation missing there i think
[20:15] <eroomde> why does a 1200g balloon constrain you to <1kg?
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[20:15] <eroomde> btw here is video from just a normal payload
[20:15] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1626665
[20:16] <eroomde> no effort really made to stop it rotating
[20:18] <mclane> here is the video of our recent balloon flight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNP82WzLDPw&feature=plcp
[20:18] <mclane> it spins quite significantly
[20:18] <mclane> ok "low"altitude, 6500 m
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[20:20] <upix> what is RP speed limit? I mean is it worth puting a more expensive Class 10 or 6 card instead of Class 4?
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[20:21] <eroomde> mclane: do you use swivels in the lines?
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[20:22] <fsphil> doubt it upix, the SD slot seems to be very slow. not sure if driver or hardware fault
[20:23] <upix> any actual tests?
[20:24] <mclane> eroomde: yes I had 3 of them
[20:25] <Gadget-Mac> upix / fsphil take a look at http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=5057&p=138705&hilit=sdcard+performance#p138705
[20:25] <eroomde> not sure then. but yep, big flat plates on the end of sticks will probably help
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[20:38] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: what plastic did you use for your ablative nozzel?
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> tufnol phenolic/glass fibre seems a pita to buy
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[20:45] <eroomde> what we used tho
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> oh cool
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> momentive will sell my phenolic resin
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> *me
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[21:10] <Laurenceb_> grrr
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> think my filter is broken
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> landline kills my adsl
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[22:02] <Laurenceb_> argg
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> i need to be up at 4am
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> this was a bad idea
[22:07] <eroomde> y?
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> need to go to Brussels
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> 2 meet with ST
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> and because im a cheapscate I decided to travel on the day
[22:08] <eroomde> they're in woking or something
[22:08] <eroomde> marlow
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> ST microelectronics?
[22:09] <eroomde> yes
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> I'm meeting some guys from medical devices
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> to discuss licensing
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[22:20] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi MrScienceMan
[22:22] <MrScienceMan> hi
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 16 2012