highaltitude.log.20120814

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[03:37] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] Re: SDR + Front End Filter/Amp"
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[07:32] <jd7209> Hi guys
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[08:01] <jd7209> !
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[08:06] <daveake> I wonder how much NASA have spent designing their new spacesuit - http://www.gizmag.com/z-1-prototype-spacesuit/23408/
[08:07] <daveake> and whether they could have just gone and bought one of these instead http://www.parteaz.co.uk/1728-2245-thickbox/buzz-lightyear-cardboard-cutout-.jpg
[08:12] <MrScienceMan> so there can be potentual greenmen on the moon
[08:12] <MrScienceMan> who would've guessed
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[08:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave B "[UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
[08:40] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
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[08:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
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[09:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
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[09:18] <griffonbot> Received email: PFK "[UKHAS] what frequencies modes are we alowed?"
[09:23] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] Re: Oscillator stabilization."
[09:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] what frequencies modes are we alowed?"
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[09:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
[09:43] <jd7209> Hi guys
[09:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Oscillator stabilization."
[09:43] <DrLuke> hey
[09:44] <jd7209> I have an issue with a Falcom FSA03 gps module, perhaps someone can help?
[09:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
[09:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
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[09:57] <danielsaul> Yup[M E1[M#E1Yup[M Y5[M#Y5Yup, haha
[09:58] <fsphil> cat on the keyboard again?
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[10:00] <eroomde> it looks like someone's vim session when they try and use normal things like ctrol-v
[10:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] what frequencies modes are we alowed?"
[10:00] <eroomde> just get a bit serious of special chacater sequences
[10:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Oscillator stabilization."
[10:04] Action: nick_ can't decide whether to put 3G capability on his board.
[10:04] <nick_> Might just have the world's supply of output interfaces..
[10:06] <nick_> 3G could be handy for a flight where recovery is impossible.
[10:10] <gonzo_> anything using the GSM network is only good at low altitude
[10:11] <nick_> Yeah
[10:11] <nick_> I'm thinking when it lands up a tree I can connect and dump all the data to a server.
[10:11] <gonzo_> so you would be relying on getting a link and downloading all your data in the last few minutes of descent
[10:12] <nick_> No
[10:12] <nick_> I would send some data during a flight
[10:12] <Randomskk> hardly relying on it either
[10:12] <Randomskk> it's a nice idea
[10:12] <nick_> Then trigger the 3G to try and connect and dump all the data say 30 mins after landing
[10:12] <Randomskk> we've sent up smartphones running flight computer apps that included the ability to dump all the images off the phone via 3G after landing
[10:12] <gonzo_> above a few 1000ft you will struggle
[10:12] <Randomskk> and also the ability to remote-control the phone to do whatever else we wanted
[10:13] <Randomskk> like play a loud noise :P
[10:13] <nick_> During the flight I'd be saving a lot more data to SD card than I could transmit.
[10:16] <nick_> I'm tempted to go with the "use all the things!" mode since I'll probably only get one chance to make this before a conference and it would be neat to show off
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[10:17] <nick_> "Look, it's logging data online while we talk, now give me a job!"
[10:17] <Randomskk> be wary of trying to do too much though :P
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[10:19] <nick_> What kind of acceleration do balloons get?
[10:20] <Randomskk> think about that for a second
[10:20] <nick_> On the way up it's pretty small, right?
[10:21] <Randomskk> ascent rate is essentially constant
[10:21] <Randomskk> you will probably get low period swinging
[10:21] <Randomskk> you might not be shocked to hear they get about 1g on initial descent
[10:21] <Randomskk> dropping as the parachute takes effect
[10:21] <nick_> Yeah, the way down I wasn't so worried about.
[10:22] <Randomskk> the ascent rate is basically constant all the way up.
[10:22] <Randomskk> and the swinging is generally not high g
[10:22] <nick_> I'm thinking about measuring the orientation.
[10:22] <nick_> Whether a gyro + accelerometer is needed or whether I could just get away with an accelerometer
[10:23] <Randomskk> meh
[10:23] <Randomskk> you don't want a magno for bearing?
[10:23] <Randomskk> an accelerometer will probably do about okay
[10:23] <nick_> I want to know how horizontal my detector is.
[10:23] <Randomskk> I see
[10:23] <Randomskk> well, depends on how much swinging you get at launch
[10:23] <Randomskk> meh, I think just an accelerometer would probably do okay.
[10:24] <merv> Hi upuwork, Any chance of doing us a big favour and arranging for our HAM-1 payload data carrier shift tweaked on the server? from 450Hz to 425Hz so the autoconfig will setup correctly.
[10:24] <nick_> If the swinging is << 1 g then accelerometer alone could be fine
[10:24] <merv> next time we will fill in the document correctly ;-)
[10:24] <nick_> Does anyone have any acceleration data I could look at from a previous flight?
[10:25] <Randomskk> merv: done.
[10:25] <merv> blimey that was quick
[10:25] <Randomskk> nick_: I can't think of any but someone probably does. perhaps email the list.
[10:26] <merv> many thanks
[10:27] <Randomskk> np
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[10:52] <Adam_> HI
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[11:47] <jd7209> !
[11:47] <jd7209> Guy, I'm struggling to get a Falcom FSA03 GPS module to work.
[11:48] <jd7209> I have it hooked up to 3.3V on a lab power supply, and the serial port to a 5V RS232 converter through a level converter.
[11:49] <jd7209> My workshop is in the basement, but the module itself is outside of the house through a tube that comes out of the wall, connected through 5m of cat5 cable.
[11:50] <jd7209> I can see the serial signals on the scope and in the terminal screen, but they are all empty. Seems like the GPS can not get a lock, even though I left it running overnight.
[11:50] <jd7209> I only get:
[11:50] <jd7209> $GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53 $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30 $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48 $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*30 $GPGSV,1,1,00*79 $GPGLL,,,,,,V,N*64
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> looks right
[11:50] <jd7209> I have tried swapping the module for a new one (I have three) but same problem
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> standard for no signal
[11:50] <Randomskk> load up u-center
[11:50] <Randomskk> on your computer
[11:51] <Randomskk> it'l show you satellites in view and SNR for each
[11:51] <Randomskk> which may help you figure out what's wrong
[11:51] <Randomskk> quite possibly your antenna
[11:51] <Randomskk> or placement
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> they are in the correct form,name correctly connected.
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> but there are no satsmvisible
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> see the empty gpgsv line
[11:52] <jd7209> I'll try u-center and see what that shows.
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> won't show anything more in this case.
[11:52] <Randomskk> yea I'd look into checking your antenna and placement.
[11:52] <jd7209> But the GPS module is off to the side of my house, 1m above ground, with clear view of at least half of the sky, so I would expect it to lock right?
[11:53] <Randomskk> generally yes
[11:53] <jd7209> The antenna is the built-in helical antenna, which is pretty standard.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> the above gpgsv line would show SATs, and snrs,but it's empty.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> and, yes. unless it's broken, jammed, or very confused
[11:53] <jd7209> I says it get lock inside of buildings, so should do so in this situation.
[11:54] <Randomskk> I assume you've tried power cycling it?
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> that
[11:54] <Randomskk> with backup battery removed if present
[11:54] <jd7209> Broken, I doubt so. I took it from the original package and only soldered the wires to it with a decent solder/rework station.
[11:54] <jd7209> Jammed, I wonder what could be jamming it then...
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> ESD?
[11:54] <jd7209> I have tried power cycling yes, no backup battery in use (yet)
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[11:55] <SpeedEvil> does other GPS thingies get a lock there?
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[11:55] <jd7209> Yes, my smartphone does.
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> power supply?
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> noise on PSU can do weird stuff
[11:56] <jd7209> If this was ESD than this device is damn sensitive, I only soldered to it once and treated it nicely.
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> as can wrong volts
[11:57] <jd7209> I have 10µF and 100nF decoupling caps on the power, albeit on the PSU side (inside of the house). Might try to put them on the GPS side as there is 5m of cat5 cable between the GPS and PSU.
[11:57] <Randomskk> worth a try.
[11:57] <Randomskk> have you power cycled?
[11:57] <jd7209> I do see that the RS232 signal is distorted over that distance, but the level converter cleans it up nicely. Perhaps the power is having the same issue. Worth a try indeed.
[11:58] <jd7209> Yes I've power cycled on several occasions, to no avail.
[11:58] <fsphil> wires or metal near the antenna will prevent it locking too
[11:58] <jd7209> Volts is 3.3something volts, well within the +-5% spec.
[11:59] <jd7209> There's no wires or metal near, it's in the top of a poly-ethylene tube that sticks out of teh ground for a meter or so. PE shouldn't block the signal.
[12:00] <fsphil> check where the antenna is soldered to the board, that's the weakest point on those modules
[12:00] <jd7209> Would you think it's that finecky about power that 5m of cat5 cable could add sufficient distortion? I mean, the GPS module must have it's own decoupling caps on board, right?
[12:01] <fsphil> it's a very tiny board, I don't think it'll have much filtering
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> is the pe right next to the ant?
[12:01] <jd7209> fsphil: I know what you mean and have checked the antenna mounting, it's fine. The second module I tried came right out of the box so no abuse there.
[12:01] <jd7209> The module with its antenna is inside of the top of teh tube, yes.
[12:01] Nick change: pjm__ -> pjm
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> anything other than air right next to it can detune some antenna
[12:02] Nick change: pjm -> Guest93471
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> pe has am very different dielectric constant than air
[12:02] <jd7209> Hmm, sounds like a long shot but worth a try. Appreciate the suggestions :-)
[12:05] <jd7209> Come to think of it, I did drag all my gear up the terrace on the first floor a while ago, clean line of sight to half of the sky (the house blocking the other half), no lock there either. So I would rule out the tube and PSU.
[12:06] <jd7209> I'll give it another shot tonight and connect the module to the breadboard, put decent decoupling caps on the power lines, and drag the setup onto the roof. If that doesn't work, I'm stumped.
[12:07] <jd7209> Specs say it should get lock after a cold start within 30 secs, right?
[12:14] <zyp> getting a lock after a cold start in less than 30 seconds is not possible for an un-assisted receiver
[12:15] <zyp> the ephemeris broadcast itself takes 30 seconds
[12:17] <zyp> and you need to download it before getting a position fix
[12:18] <jd7209> How long would you suspect it would take then, from a cold start?
[12:20] <Laurenceb> 2 or 3 minutes
[12:21] <jd7209> All right. Well, I've got some troubleshooting ideas to try, thanks guys!
[12:23] <merv> Is the flight prediction line for live flights on the tracker map a new addition?
[12:24] <Randomskk> no
[12:24] <Randomskk> but it's not always enabled
[12:24] <Randomskk> (requires manual intervention)
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[12:27] <merv> ah will it be enabled for our HAM-1 flight this Saturday as its very useful and seemed quite accurate when I watched JOEY the other day
[12:31] <Randomskk> it can be - ask in here shortly before launch
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> can you still buy D size rockets?
[13:04] <Laurenceb> oh you can buy up to G
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[13:08] <Laurenceb> http://www.hobbychemicals.co.uk/
[13:08] <Laurenceb> this looks legit
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[13:08] <Randomskk> haha it really does
[13:14] <eroomde> Laurenceb: you mean without paperwork?
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[13:14] <Laurenceb> yes
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[13:22] <Laurenceb> hmm
[13:22] Action: Laurenceb is wondering if a D motor could do anything interesting launched from a balloon
[13:26] <Laurenceb> i think it could
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[13:31] <chris_99> yes you can still buy them Laurenceb
[13:32] <Randomskk> this 3000 grit sandpaper is silky smooth.
[13:33] Action: Laurenceb wonders about the legality of stripping the cardboard off a D motor on a lathe
[13:34] <chris_99> why would you want to do that?
[13:35] <Randomskk> lighter
[13:35] <Randomskk> smaller
[13:35] <Laurenceb> cuz it horrible and heavy
[13:35] <Randomskk> more dangerous, more illegal
[13:35] <Laurenceb> stick it in a CF tube
[13:35] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:35] <chris_99> you might as well make your own gunpowder ;)
[13:35] <Randomskk> also from a safety point of view
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[13:35] <Randomskk> lathing the casing off a motor
[13:35] <Randomskk> perhaps not 'advisable'
[13:36] <chris_99> it could easily spark and ignite
[13:36] <Laurenceb> chris_99: thats illegal
[13:37] <Laurenceb> you could also trim the top of the tube down a bit and make a nozzel extension out of tufnol
[13:47] <chris_99> http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=74_94&products_id=1846
[13:48] <gonzo_> I have a feeling that modifying rockets comes under the manufacturing laws
[13:49] <gonzo_> there was some issues with the standard practive of cutting up an item (I forget which) to make a fusing system
[13:49] <gonzo_> technically not legal, but was quietly standard opractice
[13:51] <Laurenceb> iirc that involved the explosives
[13:51] <Laurenceb> and modifying the arrangement and or composition
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[16:18] <Adam_> Hi
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[16:26] <number10> WaveRider : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19257769
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[16:29] <Adam_> guys
[16:29] <Adam_> my gps module from upu arrived today
[16:30] <Adam_> I'm doing this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor but keep getting: B562624240FFFF63000010270050FA0FA06402C10000000000000016DC * Reading ACK response: (FAILED!)
[16:30] <Adam_> someone mentioned making a switch on either the TX or RX line or something?
[16:32] <number10> it is probably a good idea to write your own code and then you will understand what is going on
[16:38] <Adam_> I will be doing, but I just wondered the hardware side ot htings
[16:39] <number10> if you look at the number that you get and compare with the code example they are the same
[16:39] <number10> at a rough glance
[16:40] <number10> so if you are receiving that data your hardware should be OK
[16:44] <number10> Adam_: - read the code and understand what caused the (FAILED!) response
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[16:57] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[16:59] <daveake> Adam_ Read up on the Arduino code for "Serial". All you need to do, to check the GPS is working and to learn a bit, is open the serial port and set the baud rate in the init code, then in your loop code read characters as they come in and write them back to the serial port. Program that up and then use the Arduino Serial Monitor to see what's coming out from the GPS to the Arduino then to the PC. If you don't understand what I just said then read
[16:59] <daveake> up on basic Arduino programming first.
[17:02] <Adam_> Ok, I'm using the software serial
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[17:04] <daveake> Don't
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[17:04] <Adam_> i don't have a real serial port..
[17:04] <daveake> Yes you do
[17:05] <Adam_> USB I guess
[17:05] <daveake> No, the Arduino has a real serial port
[17:05] <daveake> You connect the GPS to it
[17:05] <daveake> Suggest you read up on that first then
[17:05] <Adam_> ok
[17:06] <daveake> The issue with the real serial port is that the the USB connection to the PC uses it too. The result is that you can't program the Arduino via the USB Arduino port if you have the GPS connected to the hatwa
[17:07] <daveake> to the hardware port on the Arduino.
[17:07] <daveake> One solution is to disconnect the GPS to program (I use a microswitch for that)
[17:08] <daveake> Another is to use an "In Circuit Programmer" which for the AVR is about £20 I think
[17:08] <daveake> Final solution is to connect the GPS to a software serial port instead. That way there be dragons.
[17:08] <MrScienceMan> I use softserial for my build
[17:08] <jonsowman> has anyone tried putting resistors in series with the gps rx/tx lines?
[17:08] <jonsowman> that should solve it
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[17:09] <daveake> I did; didn't work. Perhaps needed different value resistor
[17:09] <jonsowman> what value did you use?
[17:09] <daveake> If only I could remember :D
[17:09] <jonsowman> haha ok
[17:09] <jonsowman> don't worry
[17:09] <daveake> I must have been in a hurry as I didn't try for long
[17:10] <daveake> I'll try again next time
[17:11] <Adam_> so can i use a resistor?
[17:11] <jonsowman> did it break everything or did it just not program
[17:11] <jonsowman> Adam_: best not for now
[17:11] <daveake> Didn't program
[17:11] <jonsowman> in theory it should work, but evidence suggests otherwise
[17:11] <Adam_> so how can i get this running?
[17:11] <Adam_> i haven't got the serial development board
[17:11] <jonsowman> daveake gave you three options
[17:11] <daveake> Adam_ I told you above
[17:11] <jonsowman> pick one :)
[17:11] <daveake> Your choice
[17:11] <Adam_> ok
[17:11] <Adam_> one sec :)
[17:12] <Adam_> microswitch sounds best
[17:12] <Adam_> cheapest too
[17:12] <daveake> :)
[17:12] <MrScienceMan> softserial is the cheapest :P
[17:12] <daveake> I tend to use the Mini Pro which doesn't have a connector for the programmer
[17:13] <Adam_> i have a mega
[17:13] <daveake> Ahhhh
[17:13] <Adam_> whats this softserial?
[17:13] <Adam_> i don't have a physical serial port on my laptop
[17:13] <daveake> It is NOTHING to do with serial ports on your laptop
[17:13] <Adam_> ok
[17:13] <MrScienceMan> mega has two, no?
[17:13] <jonsowman> 4
[17:13] <daveake> 4
[17:13] <MrScienceMan> what :D
[17:14] <Adam_> 4?
[17:14] <Adam_> you mean the RX/TX channels?
[17:14] <daveake> OK, Adam_, do this for me. Look up "Arduino mega serial ports" in Google
[17:14] <daveake> You have 4 ports to choose from. 1 is used for programming the other 3 are free for you to use as you wish
[17:15] <MrScienceMan> hwoah
[17:15] <MrScienceMan> it has 4 :D
[17:15] <MrScienceMan> so many pins
[17:15] <daveake> So choose one, connect your GPS to it, then write a simple program to read characters from that serial port and send them to the serial port that connects the Arduino to USB.
[17:15] <Adam_> ok i see
[17:15] <daveake> They'll be numbered 0 to 3, or 1 to 4 (I forget) and the first is the programming one
[17:15] <jonsowman> hint: don't choose USART0
[17:16] <daveake> ^ answers my question :)
[17:16] <MrScienceMan> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/ArduinoMega.jpg
[17:16] <daveake> So you need software serial as much as Brad Pitt needs dateline
[17:17] <MrScienceMan> either 19/18 or 17/16 or 15/14
[17:17] <MrScienceMan> for the GPS serial
[17:18] <Adam_> at the moment i've got it setup for this setup: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[17:18] <Adam_> Connect RX on the board to pin 4
[17:18] <Adam_> TX to pin 5
[17:20] <MrScienceMan> if you connect the GPS RX to pin14 and TX to pin15
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[17:20] <MrScienceMan> you can do Serial1.begin(9600)
[17:20] <Adam_> ok
[17:20] <Adam_> i'll do that
[17:20] <Adam_> :)
[17:20] <MrScienceMan> and read GPS strings from that
[17:20] <MrScienceMan> skip the whole SoftwareSerial headache
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[17:21] <Adam_> but pin 14 is RX?
[17:21] <daveake> Just look it up
[17:21] <Adam_> so does it go RX - TX and TX - RX?
[17:21] <Adam_> ok
[17:21] <daveake> yes
[17:21] <Adam_> makes sense now
[17:21] <Adam_> thanks
[17:21] <MrScienceMan> gps RX goes to TX
[17:22] <MrScienceMan> on the board
[17:22] <daveake> Because one device is sending and the other receiving on that same bit of wire
[17:22] <MrScienceMan> and gps TX goes to board RX
[17:22] <MrScienceMan> exactly
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[17:23] <Adam_> ah now the arduino software is failing
[17:24] <Adam_> 'COM6 is already in use'
[17:24] <MrScienceMan> sometimes when you reconnect the arduino via the USB the virtual COM port doesnt go up
[17:24] <MrScienceMan> the fix is simple, reconnect it again
[17:26] <daveake> What you may find is that Windoze thinks the GPS is a mouse
[17:26] <Adam_> ok
[17:26] <daveake> Go into control panel --> hardware --> device manager, and see if it's thoughtfully installed a "serial ballpoint mouse" for you
[17:26] <jonsowman> lol
[17:26] <jonsowman> they are similar
[17:27] <Adam_> Error inside SerialEvent()
[17:27] <daveake> If so disable it. Try not to disable the actual mouse :D
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[18:31] Nick change: Lunar_Lander_ -> Lunar_Lander
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, unfortunately the test could not proceed today due to bureaucratic things to be done
[18:36] <number10> Lunar_Lander: is you HAB project a design by committee
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> no, but I didn't had time for the lab basically
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> I had to write letters and stuff
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[18:38] <number10> Lunar_Lander: ah well, always time tomorrow or at the weekend - there is no rush - what's a week or two in the scheme of things
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:02] <Gadget-Mac> Ouch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFh6zN0rGY&feature=youtu.be
[19:05] <fsphil> I'm glad there was only polystyrene in that capsule :)
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander_> hi fsphil
[19:05] <fsphil> hiya kev
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you today?
[19:07] <jcoxon> that didn't go too well
[19:07] <fsphil> not bad Lunar_Lander_, still recovering from a busy weekend :) you?
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander_> yea quite OK too thanks, as I said above there was office work to do today
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander_> today I got a new book
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander_> "Electron and Nuclear Counters" by Serge Korff
[19:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "[UKHAS] Launch announcement: Hyperion (Netherlands)"
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[19:25] <jcoxon> hooray a launch
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander_> hello Elmar_PD3EM
[19:26] <fsphil> I wonder... yagi*2+preamp
[19:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> hello!
[19:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, do it
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander_> Elmar_PD3EM, how are you today?
[19:29] <fsphil> you know what, if the weather is good I will
[19:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> Busy with HAB-tracking preperations ;-)
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[19:30] Action: daveake contemplates how best to mount a yagi at the top of his telescopic mast
[19:30] <mattbrejza> cable ties
[19:30] <daveake> An ali pole to the COG is going to mess up the signal
[19:31] <daveake> Well the easiest place to connect is at the back of the yagi, but then it's going to bend the mast somewhat
[19:31] <fsphil> I'm gonna need some rope to keep the telescopic up
[19:31] <mattbrejza> that doesnt stop tv yagis having their support on the middle
[19:31] <fsphil> will get that friday
[19:31] <daveake> True, but seems wrong to me
[19:32] <MrScienceMan> daveake: ducktape
[19:32] <mattbrejza> surely having supports coming out perpendicular to the elements wont do too much damage
[19:32] <jonsowman> have the mast orthogonal to the boom and elements
[19:32] <jonsowman> and no electrical contact
[19:32] <daveake> Well the elements will be vertical shirley?
[19:32] <mattbrejza> have a horizontal support to the mask?
[19:33] <mattbrejza> might need a counter weight
[19:33] <jonsowman> yes, so the mount needs to come out sideways and attach to the main mast
[19:33] <mattbrejza> such as another yagi?
[19:33] <daveake> Ah ok
[19:33] <daveake> :)
[19:33] <fsphil> that's my plan mattbrejza :)
[19:33] <jonsowman> haha, good plan mattbrejza
[19:33] <jonsowman> s/plan/excuse/ perhaps
[19:33] <daveake> I'll see what I can do then
[19:33] <fsphil> funcube dongle mounted up on the mast with the pre-amp, and a long usb cable down to the laptop
[19:33] <mattbrejza> ive seen a yagi array on a pole for met office balloons before (2 yagis)
[19:33] <daveake> Have Yagi; pre-amp and plenty of clamps and poles
[19:33] <mattbrejza> and many other examples im sure
[19:34] <daveake> and tape
[19:34] <daveake> and cable ties
[19:34] <fsphil> lots of tape
[19:34] <fsphil> would nylon cord be strong enough to use as guy wire?
[19:34] <fsphil> I have lots of it
[19:34] <jonsowman> i don't know how it would cope with being wet for a long time
[19:35] <jonsowman> probably be alright
[19:35] <daveake> I use 4mm polypropylene
[19:35] <fsphil> it's only temporary
[19:35] <fsphil> but I might as well get the proper stuff
[19:35] <daveake> Apparently less stretchy than nylon
[19:35] <fsphil> it's a lot of weight up there
[19:35] <fsphil> and it'll be on a windy mountain top
[19:35] <jonsowman> i guess stretchy is not really what you want for guy lines
[19:36] <daveake> That's what I thought
[19:36] <daveake> Besides this stuff was white with pink stripes
[19:36] <jonsowman> maybe steel cable, then you get a free 40m dipole
[19:36] <daveake> Uputastic
[19:36] <fsphil> that makes it 38.5% better
[19:36] <daveake> :D
[19:36] <jonsowman> true
[19:37] <daveake> For my temporary mast I put hooks on the guy ropes, and screw posts at 3 points in the garden. So it's pretty quick to put the whole thing up
[19:38] <daveake> Saves all that time getting the tensions right
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[19:39] <nigelvh> Afternoon
[19:39] <fsphil> screw posts, ta - was about to ask what they where called
[19:39] <fsphil> I've got those camping ground posts but they're not very good
[19:39] <daveake> I just made that up
[19:40] <fsphil> evening nigelvh
[19:40] <daveake> Nah, you need the ones for tying down pooches
[19:40] <nigelvh> Yard screws?
[19:40] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dog-Spiral-Tie-Out-Stake-/110933617024?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item19d428a980#ht_480wt_1153
[19:41] <daveake> Better pic -
[19:41] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BNew-STRONG-STEEL-DOG-SPIRAL-TIE-OUT-GARDEN-STAKE-SECURE-DOG-LEAD-/120923553857?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item1c279b0041#ht_1262wt_901
[19:41] <fsphil> giant corkscrew
[19:41] <daveake> Yup
[19:41] <daveake> They work just fine
[19:41] <nigelvh> They work fine for what?
[19:41] <daveake> Hold down guy ropes for a temp radio mast
[19:42] <nigelvh> That would probably work fine.
[19:42] <daveake> It does
[19:42] <nigelvh> I tend to use cinder blocks.
[19:42] <daveake> I have 3 in my garden
[19:42] <nigelvh> Though, cinderblocks are less convenient to carry.
[19:42] <fsphil> and as a bonus, I can bring the dog
[19:42] <daveake> And in the centre I have a big screw-in thing sold for washing line poles
[19:43] <daveake> Centre hole is 52mm (IIRC) and the mast is a very good fit
[19:44] <fsphil> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21dAYKsxVWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
[19:44] <fsphil> that sort of thing?
[19:45] <fsphil> I may not need that, but better to be prepared
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander_> Elmar_PD3EM,
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander_> today I got a new book
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander_> "Electron and Nuclear Counters" by Serge Korff
[19:46] <daveake> fsphil Yes like that
[19:46] <daveake> Got mine in B&Q for £12-something
[19:46] <Gadget-Mac> daveake: interesting idea
[19:46] <daveake> Get one with a cap and a built-in spirit level
[19:47] <daveake> so you can screw it in vertically
[19:47] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: nice! As long as you don't put nuclear stuff in your HAB with a Geigercounter ;-)
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
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[19:49] <daveake> This is the one I got - http://www.diy.com/nav/rooms/indoor-cleaning-laundry/rotary-airers-dryers/outdoor_airers/Ground-Screw-11697717
[19:50] <nigelvh> There might be other reasons not to put nuclear stuff on a HAB
[19:50] <daveake> Perfect fit with the moonraker telescopic mast that I have
[19:54] <fsphil> that's a good bit better than that ebay one
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[20:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement: XABEN this weekend"
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[20:02] <fsphil> I may as well just camp up on the mountain this weekend
[20:03] <Upu> oo looks fun
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[20:04] <fsphil> forecast for sunday ain't too bad
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[20:04] <fsphil> a bit windy maybe
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[20:17] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Launch announcement: XABEN this weekend"
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[20:18] <daveake> Altitude wars lol
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> nigelvh, you are right
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> we should not attempt to reconstruct the Betasonde experiment
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[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> DrLuke, yea I hope to launch soon
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> why?
[23:32] <DrLuke> I don't need all of the hydrogen
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[23:32] <DrLuke> maybe only 3 or 4 m³
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> yea maybe
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks for the offer
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander_> but you and I live quite far apart
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander_> and you can't send hydrogen via the phone line or so
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 15 2012