highaltitude.log.20120808

[00:01] <fsphil> hehe, nice illusion: http://www.moillusions.com/2007/06/spinning-sihouette-optical-illusion.html
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[07:43] <UpuWork> can someone remind me what the freeware alternative to virtual audio cable is please ?
[07:48] <gonzo_> A ripped version of VAC?
[07:48] <Darkside> lol
[07:49] <UpuWork> wrong answer
[07:50] <UpuWork> versions that come with a trial period license extension utility are exercise left to reader
[07:50] <costyn> UpuWork: for windows?
[07:50] <UpuWork> but there is another program which is free which has been mention but I'll be buggered if I can find it
[07:50] <UpuWork> yep
[07:52] <costyn> hm not sure... Google isn't very helpful to me either.
[07:52] <UpuWork> no I couldn't find it either
[07:52] <costyn> on mac I use the easy to use and free LineIn program
[07:53] <Darkside> i use soundflower
[07:53] <costyn> tried that, couldn't figure it out :)
[07:53] <UpuWork> if any Mac users want to update the Wiki SDR articule
[07:53] <UpuWork> article
[07:53] <costyn> sure, i'll add a link to LineIN
[07:54] <UpuWork> I mean add the whole how to get an SDR working under Mac
[07:54] <costyn> oh :)
[07:54] <Darkside> oh lol
[07:54] <Darkside> yeah using rtlsdr on mac is a pain atm
[07:54] <Darkside> you need to use gnuradio
[07:54] <costyn> erm, well I don't have a dongle so am not of much juse
[07:54] <costyn> use
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[07:54] <UpuWork> Yeah I hear
[07:55] <nosebleedkt> hi everybody
[07:55] <nosebleedkt> I have new clean pictures
[07:55] <nosebleedkt> without the overexprosure thing
[07:56] <UpuWork> linky
[07:57] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493992450614804.128626.259791880701530&type=3
[07:57] <nosebleedkt> public facebook album
[07:57] <nosebleedkt> the new pics are awesome
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[07:58] <nosebleedkt> you can even see athens
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> and north bulgaria
[07:58] <nosebleedkt> i had canon exposure setting at 1/1000
[07:59] <nosebleedkt> next time if the day is sunny i'll put 1/1500
[07:59] <nosebleedkt> we got pretty much light over here
[07:59] <costyn> nosebleedkt: shutter speed?
[07:59] <nosebleedkt> yes
[07:59] <UpuWork> you got some really really good pictures there
[07:59] <nosebleedkt> so it doesnt collect much light
[08:00] <nosebleedkt> Upu, I need to open an image collction account
[08:00] <costyn> nosebleedkt: yea that's quite high. why didn't you go for full automatici?
[08:00] <nosebleedkt> to put the high quality
[08:00] <UpuWork> I tend to put them in landscape mode and disable the flash and away you go
[08:00] <costyn> that was my plan too
[08:01] <UpuWork> I need to launch when its not cloudy makes much better pictures
[08:01] <Darkside> heh yes
[08:01] <Darkside> we've had the cloud issues before..
[08:01] <UpuWork> however
[08:01] <UpuWork> UK lol
[08:01] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/23435610
[08:01] <Darkside> that flight
[08:01] <costyn> but yes these are awesome pictures with ground detail and the sea
[08:01] <Darkside> everything was blown out with sunlight
[08:03] <UpuWork> I love about 3mins
[08:03] <Darkside> our cameraman managed to recover the footage
[08:03] <UpuWork> with the latex
[08:03] <Darkside> partially
[08:03] <Darkside> yeah
[08:03] <Darkside> floating in front of the camera
[08:04] <Darkside> ahh yes
[08:04] <Darkside> this is the one that landed aith 60kph horizontal velocity
[08:04] <Darkside> with*
[08:04] <Darkside> and we lost the last few minutes of footage because the gopro reset
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[08:06] <nosebleedkt> can you please tell me a popular website for image sharing?
[08:06] <Darkside> ok time to head to hackerspace
[08:06] <Darkside> back on later guys
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[08:14] <UpuWork> flickr nosebleedkt
[08:14] <nosebleedkt> yeah already uploading
[08:16] <costyn> nosebleedkt: imgur
[08:16] <costyn> and flickr yes
[08:17] <costyn> imgur is image hosting mostly, flickr is best if you want other people to see your images too without sending them links explicitly
[08:20] <nosebleedkt> I connected flickr with my facebook account
[08:20] <griffonbot> Received email: DutchMillbt . "[UKHAS] Anybody in the Bath area?"
[08:20] <nosebleedkt> so it was 1minute work to do it
[08:21] <costyn> good, link?
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> wait im uploading :P
[08:22] <costyn> oh
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> 55 pics, 5mb each :P
[08:22] <costyn> 1 minute to set up an account you mean
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> yes
[08:22] <costyn> ah, I thought that went quick. :) thought you must have nice upload bandwidth :)
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> lol
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> im in the company now
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> so i guess the bandwidth is better than my homes
[08:24] <nosebleedkt> costyn, how is IT jobs there?
[08:25] <costyn> nosebleedkt: fine I guess. at least in my company
[08:25] <nosebleedkt> holland ?
[08:25] <costyn> yes
[08:36] <nosebleedkt> what language do u speak there?
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[08:39] <Dutch-Mill> Morning costyn i
[08:39] <Dutch-Mill> ..in the house
[08:39] <costyn> nosebleedkt: dutch and nearly everybody can (some)speak english and some speak german and french too
[08:39] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: hi there!
[08:39] <Dutch-Mill> Hoi
[08:40] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: going to launch on the 19th, btw :) I will announce it on the mailing list in the next few days
[08:40] <Dutch-Mill> Yep saw it on the calender..
[08:40] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: going to launch from Rijswijk (if the winds are right), you're welcome to come watch if you want
[08:41] <fsphil> I was in .nl once, and many of the people could speak better English than people here
[08:41] <Dutch-Mill> Well I like too let you know if I can help
[08:42] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: I have some friends helping me out with the launch and the chase, but if you are available to track that day would be great
[08:43] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: of course if you are onsite and there's some last minute troubleshooting to be done then you might be able to help. :) my friends don't have much knowldge on the technical side of things
[08:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement EURUS2 and XABEN-30 (11th August)"
[08:44] <Dutch-Mill> Let's hope for wind from the west else we need a boat :-;
[08:44] <costyn> yes :)
[08:45] <costyn> well I have some backup launch sites planned, but they're further inland
[08:45] <costyn> for if we are headed northeast for example
[08:45] <costyn> I have faith in the predictor, just got to make sure I get the necklift right. ;)
[08:46] <Dutch-Mill> Yes the CUSF predictor work
[08:47] <Dutch-Mill> ...works good...
[08:47] <Dutch-Mill> What kind of balloon do you use
[08:48] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: superfloat 9000, I mean Hwoyee 1200
[08:50] <Dutch-Mill> Nice... Let you know in a few days if I will be there must go now.... AND my excuse for my ' French'. ;-))
[08:50] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: ok, cya! :)
[08:51] <costyn> fsphil: well I went to an American high school, so my English should be better than most regular Dutch people :)
[08:51] <fsphil> ah, does that mean you have an american accent for english?
[08:52] <costyn> fsphil: depends whom you ask. Americans say I have a Dutch accent, not sure what the British say. Dutch people will say I have an American accent :)
[08:53] <costyn> fsphil: first couple years after I got back to NL I was even accused of speaking Dutch with an American accent :)
[08:53] <fsphil> lol, is that possible?
[08:53] <costyn> yea
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[08:54] <fsphil> language is fun
[08:54] <costyn> yes :)
[08:56] <griffonbot> @daveake: On-board video from the 5th Hucknall Scouts flight - launch and initial ascent http://t.co/hlaWK4Db #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/233124452420964352]
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[09:04] <cuddykid> hmm - I would like this to change slightly before the go-ahead http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4343ba4bb736ee2ef18bc3caca8368ed1faf0963
[09:04] <cuddykid> has moved a lot already compared to earlier in the week
[09:05] <costyn> fsphil: tried to find a youtube video of someone talking dutch with an american accent, no luck so far. most blatant examples are daytime infomercials with lines like "would you look at this Mike" but then in Dutch but the guy is still named mike :)
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[09:17] <nosebleedkt> yo
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> this is my set
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/sets/72157630967456346/
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> just 5 pics
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[09:20] <nosebleedkt> im uploading little by little
[09:21] <costyn> nosebleedkt: nice, the full-resolution pics are just what we needed :)
[09:21] <nosebleedkt> hehe
[09:22] <nosebleedkt> wait to see the near-space ones'
[09:22] <nosebleedkt> and zoom in
[09:24] <costyn> :)
[09:34] <nosebleedkt> you might like this
[09:34] <nosebleedkt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738786182/in/photostream
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[09:41] <nosebleedkt> you also might like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738806036/in/photostream
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[09:50] <nosebleedkt> real juice: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738846548/in/photostream
[09:50] <costyn> very pretty
[09:50] <costyn> that black sky is just so cool
[09:51] <nosebleedkt> the only things i change in the picture was luminocity
[09:51] <costyn> what altitude was that last one?
[09:51] <nosebleedkt> to clear the overexposure
[09:52] <nosebleedkt> those are around 30
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[09:59] <nosebleedkt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738874792/in/photostream
[10:02] <costyn> nosebleedkt: I would swear you can see the curvature of the earth there :)
[10:02] <nosebleedkt> no man no curv
[10:02] <costyn> I know it's theoretically impossible, but still :)
[10:02] <nosebleedkt> next mission will have a gopro with 170 degrees of FOV
[10:03] <nosebleedkt> that could catch
[10:03] <Randomskk> the fisheye effect will certainly make it look curved :p
[10:03] <costyn> certainly :)
[10:03] <nosebleedkt> xaxaxaxa
[10:03] <nosebleedkt> lo
[10:03] <nosebleedkt> l
[10:04] <nosebleedkt> i don't know how much FOV have our casual canon cameras
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[10:05] <UpuWork> nosebleedkt
[10:05] <costyn> nosebleedkt: can't find it for the A490
[10:05] <UpuWork> can you make all those pictures availble as a zip file ?
[10:06] <fsphil> aah, sneaky plan
[10:06] <costyn> 37mm, but have no idea if the lens is aspherical or not
[10:06] <costyn> anyways time for lunch
[10:06] <nosebleedkt> NASA's EPOD: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738902586/in/photostream
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[10:09] <nosebleedkt> those are around 34km
[10:10] <nosebleedkt> olympian gods suppose to live there, from high altitude seems so little place for gods :p
[10:10] <daveake> Most of the Canon A series are around 37/38mm equivalent. i.e. a moderate wide angle
[10:10] <nosebleedkt> daveake, can you compare it with 170deg of FOV ?
[10:10] <daveake> Much less :)
[10:11] <UpuWork> nosebleedkt if Imgur would start to play ball I have something to show you
[10:11] <daveake> 170 is enormous. That's what the gopros do I think. You get more in, but the distortion is horrible
[10:11] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork, what? :p
[10:12] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/fvkVw.jpg
[10:12] <nosebleedkt> daveake, what means distortion?
[10:12] <UpuWork> thats 2 of your images stitched
[10:12] <daveake> What the camera captures is not accurate
[10:12] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork, lol
[10:12] <daveake> Straight lines become curves. Curves become different curves, depending on where the camera is pointing
[10:13] <daveake> So a gopro looking down at the Earth: the horizon is very curved (more than reality)
[10:13] <daveake> When it looks up the horizon curves the other way
[10:13] <nosebleedkt> well, im seriously thinking of making a panoramic picture
[10:13] <UpuWork> I just did it :)
[10:13] <daveake> up/down swapped over there :p
[10:13] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork, yes and I funcking like ikt 1
[10:13] <nosebleedkt> !
[10:13] <UpuWork> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ice/
[10:14] <UpuWork> go have a play
[10:14] <UpuWork> just throw sequential images at it
[10:14] <UpuWork> you'll be surprised what comes out
[10:14] <UpuWork> the payloads tend to rotate slowly
[10:14] <UpuWork> well sometimes :)
[10:14] <daveake> There's probably software around that will fix the lens distortion for you - that's what NASA did for the initial Curiosity photos
[10:15] <fsphil> CPC just phoned me, they're recalling those micro-USB PSUs they sold alongside the raspberry pi
[10:15] <daveake> So, my opinion is: fly a more normal lens and do the stitching to get the wide view
[10:15] <daveake> Are they shite?
[10:15] <eroomde> I second and third this
[10:15] <nosebleedkt> Athens in deep: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738926340/in/photostream/
[10:15] <eroomde> we put some thought into this problem a few years ago
[10:15] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Oops. That's inconvenient...
[10:16] <fsphil> daveake, I unplugged one and got only half of it
[10:16] <eroomde> concluded a camera in portrait mode with a downward angle of about 15 degrees was the thing to go for
[10:16] <daveake> ah
[10:16] <fsphil> I thought it was just mine but it must be a fault with them all
[10:16] <eroomde> based on our reasoning anyway
[10:16] <daveake> eroomde Interesting. That's a good idea.
[10:16] <eroomde> anyway, that's exactly what we designed for nova 8 and that's the one that produced that sunrise 360 degree panorama photo
[10:17] <daveake> Rely on the rotation to get the wide bit and rotate the camera to get more of the vertical
[10:17] <fsphil> wouldn't portrait reduce the odds of getting all the images?
[10:17] <eroomde> this'n http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[10:17] <fsphil> for a horizontal stitch
[10:17] <daveake> Take more photos :)
[10:17] <Randomskk> someone send up a 4K video camera already
[10:17] <fsphil> lol
[10:17] <Randomskk> one of those RED ones maybe
[10:17] <Randomskk> something nice
[10:17] <eroomde> fsphil: we found that the odds went from really massively huge overlap at horizontal to just massively huge overlap at vertical
[10:18] <fsphil> how frequently where you taking images?
[10:18] <eroomde> 5s
[10:18] <fsphil> nice, I was doing 10s and there where only a few gaps
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[10:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
[10:24] <UpuWork> what I should do
[10:24] <UpuWork> is put the GoPro in normal angle mode on its burst photo mode take 1 fps
[10:24] <eroomde> full size of the above (5mb warning) http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_full.jpg
[10:24] <UpuWork> not 5Mb....
[10:24] <UpuWork> think of the tubes
[10:24] <russss> single high-res frame from the Curiosity descent imager: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/00000/mrdi/0000MD9999000072E1_DXXX.jpg
[10:25] <UpuWork> look at that
[10:25] <nosebleedkt> last pic before burst: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738956960/in/photostream
[10:26] <UpuWork> go get to work with ICE nosebleedkt you have some nice pics to work from
[10:26] <nosebleedkt> yes as soon as i finish the uploading
[10:26] <UpuWork> how many pictures did you end up with ?
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[10:29] <nosebleedkt> camera had 470
[10:29] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Anybody in the Bath area?"
[10:29] <UpuWork> ok a few to work with then
[10:29] <nosebleedkt> but the bestof are around 60
[10:33] <costyn> man those Curiosity pics are so mindblowing
[10:34] <UpuWork> don't rule the others out nosebleedkt they may be able to help with the stitching
[10:34] <number10> JPL coding standard for C http://lars-lab.jpl.nasa.gov/JPL_Coding_Standard_C.pdf - looks like they use C and python
[10:34] <Randomskk> :D
[10:34] <Randomskk> the best two languages
[10:34] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork, what do you mean?
[10:35] <nosebleedkt> Python???? bliah!
[10:35] <fsphil> aah, this will be a good read
[10:35] <russss> all the flown code is C
[10:35] <russss> they use python for some static analysis/log analysis/code gen tasks
[10:35] <UpuWork> nosebleedkt if you put images that don't look that good may have information in that can be used to stitch with other images
[10:36] <nosebleedkt> aaa
[10:36] <daveake> Probably not much you can't do with those 2
[10:36] <nosebleedkt> yes actually the best of was of my own choice
[10:36] <number10> yes, I think I have read that somewhere russss - use python for test scripts
[10:36] <nosebleedkt> others my find other images nice too
[10:36] <eroomde> a lot of that chat about this style guidelines doc is funny
[10:36] <eroomde> from lots of non embedded peeps
[10:36] <russss> and the OS is VxWorks running on a BAe RAD750 processor (200MHz)
[10:37] <eroomde> 'what? you can't use malloc? jesus wtf that's not even programming!'
[10:37] <russss> I am all in favour of not using malloc
[10:37] <fsphil> lol
[10:37] <fsphil> I didn't use malloc once in the ssdv encoder
[10:38] <eroomde> i remember when i first did non microcontroller c, i saw malloc and was like 'wtf? that's looks incredible dangerous, surely you could creat black holes with that kind of thig? it's a wonder anything works at all! this isn;t programming!'
[10:38] <russss> heh
[10:38] <eroomde> horses for courses huh
[10:38] <fsphil> I went the opposite way
[10:38] <MrScienceMan> every good program has malloc and fork inside a while(1)
[10:38] <MrScienceMan> makes everything work faster
[10:39] <eroomde> pic16f84 assembler was the stuff, where you have an excel spreadsheet where each cell is a byte of memory and you keep track of them all manually
[10:39] <daveake> Go FORTH and multiply
[10:39] <eroomde> now all the wrinklies can pipe in with their stories of 6800s and Z80s
[10:39] <fsphil> Our Order does not deal in PICs
[10:39] <daveake> Ah, the Z80 ...
[10:40] <daveake> .... decide what you need to do, then look up to see which of the 680 instructions is closest
[10:40] <fsphil> ooch
[10:41] <daveake> Sometimes you'd find an instruction which did the same as a set of 43 or 4 that you'd previously been using
[10:41] <daveake> 3 or 4
[10:41] <UpuWork> russss that MSL image where did you find it ?
[10:41] <daveake> I think it was designed by commitee
[10:41] <russss> UpuWork: I'm following the vast majority of JPL on twitter now. One of them posted it.
[10:41] <daveake> </wrinkly_mode>
[10:41] <UpuWork> ah ok
[10:41] <UpuWork> thanks I can't find it on the site :)
[10:41] <russss> I noticed it's not on the raw images section of the MSL site
[10:41] <UpuWork> yes
[10:42] <russss> ah wait
[10:42] <russss> there are now navcam images from sol 2 though
[10:42] <russss> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/?s=2
[10:42] <russss> oh my
[10:42] <UpuWork> going to be a great video when they get them all back
[10:43] <russss> yeah, might be a while though
[10:43] <UpuWork> is the high gain up yet ?
[10:43] <eroomde> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/proj/msl/redops/ods/surface/sol/00002/opgs/edr/ncam/NLA_397681372EDR_F0020000AUT_04096M_.JPG
[10:43] <eroomde> whited out bit
[10:43] <eroomde> overexposure?
[10:43] <eroomde> bit corruption?
[10:43] <eroomde> itar?
[10:44] <fsphil> is that hills or dunes
[10:44] <Darkside> possibly reflection off stuff
[10:44] <russss> heh
[10:45] <russss> probably over-exposed
[10:45] <russss> https://twitter.com/doug_ellison is the guy I got that MARDI image link from
[10:45] <UpuWork> looks like someones used MS Paint to rub out something
[10:45] <russss> he's the guy behind eyes on the solar system
[10:46] <eroomde> russss: doug used to be on ukhas
[10:46] <russss> oh really?
[10:46] <eroomde> yes
[10:46] <eroomde> he's the guy we did nova 8 with
[10:46] <eroomde> and the founder of unmannedspaceflight.com
[10:46] <eroomde> he's from leicester
[10:46] <eroomde> he took UMSF and animations so seriously as a hobby that jpl offered him a job
[10:46] <eroomde> and did all the paperwork to get him over
[10:47] <nosebleedkt> here you are the complete set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/sets/72157630967456346/
[10:47] <eroomde> he used to do animations for the medical industry
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[10:51] <UpuWork> nosebleedkt http://i.imgur.com/dBkFX.jpg
[10:51] <Adam_> Hi
[10:51] <UpuWork> hi Adam
[10:51] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork, omg
[10:51] <fsphil> I do love a good panorama
[10:51] <Darkside> ooooooh
[10:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/84522964@N06/7738917230/in/set-72157630967456346/
[10:51] <Darkside> thats pretty
[10:51] <Laurenceb> wow
[10:51] <Laurenceb> what altitude?
[10:52] <UpuWork> I'll do more nosebleedkt if you want it just a ball ache downloading the pictures from flickr
[10:52] <fsphil> my own attempt but the horizon came out bumpy, http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6239/6235935014_70cc103bec_o.jpg
[10:54] <Adam_> Hi guys. Sorry to bother you, but I'm a college student looking to launch a space balloon and get some HD photos of the UK (Lincolnshire). Anyone have any advice?
[10:54] <Adam_> I've never done this sort of thing before
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[10:54] <UpuWork> Well you're in the right place
[10:54] <Adam_> :)
[10:54] <daveake> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/ is a good place to read
[10:55] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning more specifically
[10:55] <UpuWork> have a read
[10:55] <daveake> Have you done any electronics? Software?
[10:55] <Adam_> Thanks
[10:55] <Adam_> I work with Arduino and Raspberry Pi
[10:55] <UpuWork> best advice is have a read there, go read other peoples project write ups (lots linked from there)
[10:55] <Adam_> but only really on basic stuff
[10:55] <UpuWork> there being UKHAS
[10:55] <daveake> Use the Arduino :)
[10:55] <Adam_> Ok! :D
[10:55] <UpuWork> Rasp Pi :)
[10:55] <fsphil> AVR!
[10:55] <daveake> Who'd use a Raspberry Pi? ;)
[10:56] <UpuWork> you can't use the Pi Dave has secured all media rights to use them for HAB stuff
[10:56] <costyn> UpuWork: cool panorama pic
[10:56] <daveake> lol
[10:56] <Adam_> Haha, don't want to cause a battle :)
[10:56] <UpuWork> nosebleedkt's pictures costyn :)
[10:56] <UpuWork> Adam we also have a conference next month in London which would be worth attending
[10:56] <UpuWork> you'll get to meet people and learn alot I suspect
[10:56] <daveake> Joking aside, The Arduino is a much better option. Smaller, lighter, needs much much less power, simpler, more reliable.
[10:57] <fsphil> much more reliable
[10:57] <costyn> UpuWork: yea
[10:57] <UpuWork> +1 for Arduino or AVR based
[10:57] <costyn> more example code available
[10:57] <UpuWork> or something like that other µControllers are availble
[10:58] <daveake> My test tracker stopped working when the SD card died, possibly through being bent a bit when I pushed it into the payload container
[10:58] <nick_> +2 for mbed/cortex m3 based
[10:58] <nick_> Or m0 might be better for HAB use
[10:59] <nosebleedkt> well
[10:59] <eroomde> +1 for arm in general
[10:59] <nosebleedkt> i cant stitch 3 images
[10:59] <nosebleedkt> UpuWork,
[10:59] <daveake> Also with the Arduino, if you want to step down in weight there's the Mini Pro to use, without changing your code much if at all
[10:59] <Adam_> I'd like to start with a simple launch, and then once I get the hang of it do something a bit different
[10:59] <UpuWork> simple
[10:59] <UpuWork> see that ?
[10:59] <UpuWork> he said simple
[10:59] <daveake> Good plan
[10:59] <fsphil> arm is not as simple yet
[10:59] <daveake> He did
[10:59] <Adam_> Haha
[10:59] <Darkside> simple!
[10:59] <Darkside> jes
[10:59] <Darkside> good
[10:59] <Darkside> Adam_: aunch a tracker, get it back
[10:59] Action: nick_ is quite happy that his mbed is spewing out data to web sockets as we speak with very simple hardware and software setup
[10:59] <Darkside> then next time, launch a camera
[10:59] <Darkside> :-)
[11:00] <daveake> Can we have more Adams and fewer Ja*&&^*&^*s please?
[11:00] <UpuWork> lol
[11:00] <Darkside> haha
[11:00] <Darkside> yes
[11:00] <nick_> fsphil: the mbed is as simple as the arduino, I think.
[11:00] <Adam_> Haha, I'm not like most of the college students you see on the news!
[11:00] <Adam_> I'd rather spend my time more creatively :)
[11:00] <fsphil> nick_: what sort of development environment?
[11:00] <UpuWork> they aren't on the news they come here
[11:00] <UpuWork> ok I'm off to get some food, welcome aboard Adam
[11:00] <fsphil> I'm using gcc, makefiles and avrdude to flash the avr
[11:00] <fsphil> I'd love a similar setup for arm
[11:01] <Adam_> Ok, might come on here regularly
[11:01] <nick_> They provide an online tool chain and a usb flash interface
[11:01] <daveake> Adam_ Whereabouts are you? It's worth going to a launch sometime before you do your first flight
[11:01] <Adam_> Do you have a time when you're all about?
[11:01] <Adam_> I'm in Lincolnshire
[11:01] <Adam_> England
[11:01] <fsphil> the channel is busiest evenings UK time
[11:01] <daveake> I landed one in Lincs a couple of weeks ago
[11:01] <fsphil> or when there is a launch on
[11:01] <eroomde> although a lot of us bunk of dayjob on ehre Adam_
[11:01] <fsphil> that too :)
[11:01] <nick_> So you write your code (or simply import any other user's public code), hit compile and save the binary to the usb storage device.
[11:01] <daveake> :)
[11:02] <fsphil> I'm off this week so I can chat freely :)
[11:02] <eroomde> i'm running jobs that take 20 mins to run so i have lots of gaps for nose picking
[11:02] <Adam_> Thanks!
[11:02] <daveake> Well with Arduino it's a USB virtual serial port. The Arduino IDE has a "program" button
[11:02] <fsphil> sadly had intended to do lots of coding but typically ended up doing more tidy ups
[11:03] <fsphil> (room tidy ups, not code)
[11:03] <fsphil> I need another house at this rate :(
[11:03] <Adam_> So if I were to progress to using an Arduino in the launch, what could I link up to it? I mean, I guess sensors! But are they readily available?
[11:03] <nick_> They are too readily available
[11:03] <daveake> Take a look at http://proto-pic.co.uk/
[11:03] <fsphil> how's your C programming Adam_?
[11:03] <nick_> There's tonnes that you can use.
[11:04] <Adam_> I did C# at college
[11:04] <MrScienceMan> :(
[11:04] <daveake> You can get sensors for temperature, pressure, humidity
[11:04] <nick_> Programming any of the popular microcontroller boards is easy.
[11:04] <daveake> Accelerometers etc if you want
[11:04] <Gadget-Work> Out of interest has anyone flown gas monitoring type sensors ?
[11:04] <Adam_> Dave, that website has everything I was thinking of :)
[11:04] <fsphil> C should be simple enough to pick up
[11:04] <daveake> I've spent a lot there :D
[11:04] <Adam_> haha
[11:04] <nick_> You don't even really need to program well.
[11:05] <daveake> I assume UpuWork is afk as he hasn't mentioned his own store yet ....
[11:05] <eroomde> worth trying to though :)
[11:05] <Adam_> he went to get some food I think!
[11:05] <gonzo_mob> dangerous talk!
[11:05] <fsphil> lol
[11:05] <Adam_> he has his own store for this stuff then?
[11:05] <nick_> A few analogRead(3), digitalWrite(8, HIGH) and some basic flow control and you're done.
[11:05] <daveake> Balloons / chutes / etc - http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[11:06] <daveake> Radio / GPS / etc - http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[11:06] <daveake> The first is RocketBoy here; the second is UpuWork
[11:06] Action: Laurenceb books place at conference
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[11:06] <Laurenceb> free food XD
[11:06] <Laurenceb> very good value
[11:06] <daveake> Free extra inions if you sit next to fsphil
[11:07] <Laurenceb> better than Farnborough air show
[11:07] <Laurenceb> that was awful
[11:07] <nick_> Where is the conferenec?
[11:07] <Laurenceb> londonium
[11:07] <daveake> London
[11:07] <nick_> More specificially?
[11:07] <eroomde> Laurenceb: farnborough airshow was great!
[11:07] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2012
[11:07] <Laurenceb> saturday was horrific
[11:07] <Laurenceb> i left after about 2 hours
[11:08] <Laurenceb> weather was appalling and all the noise made me feel really ill
[11:08] <nick_> OK, so a bus and a few tubes from Oxford
[11:08] <eroomde> Laurenceb: sweet
[11:08] <Laurenceb> i dont like airshows
[11:08] <eroomde> :)
[11:08] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:08] <eroomde> the palnes are quite noisy
[11:08] <Adam_> Guys, just got this reply from BOC gas after enquiring about helium gas:
[11:09] <eroomde> F Off
[11:09] <Adam_> "Im not sure if you are aware, but there is currently a global shortage of helium and unfortunately BOC have recently become affected by this."
[11:09] <eroomde> love boc
[11:09] <Laurenceb> yeah i now know i dont l;ike that part :P
[11:09] <eroomde> Adam_: yes, people are gradually switching over to hydrogen
[11:09] <Adam_> I heard about it two years ago, but wasn't sure how much it would affect stuff.
[11:09] <Adam_> Ah ok
[11:09] <daveake> It's starting to get silly
[11:10] <Laurenceb> ive just been emailed saying there is no liquid helium
[11:10] <nick_> A He shortage isn't silly, it's quite serious.
[11:10] <daveake> My last helium T cylinder (medium - enough for an average launch) was £80. Twice that amount in He is £68
[11:10] <Laurenceb> and limited availability until 2014
[11:10] <Adam_> So how much does it cost to fill a balloon?
[11:10] <daveake> I know; silly for us serious for MRI
[11:10] <kokey> I guess helium supplies are affected by the fact that much gas are now coming from fracking instead off from oil fields
[11:10] <Adam_> At the least the shortage means the price will go up.
[11:11] <Laurenceb> until new quatar LNG plant comes online
[11:11] <kokey> and you don't really get much, if any, helium, out of fracked gas
[11:11] <Adam_> Wrongly worded! I mean't at the least, not at least.
[11:11] <kokey> I will be worried when we run out of hydrogen
[11:11] <daveake> lol
[11:11] <Adam_> Anyone have any experience getting sponsors for these projects?
[11:12] <Adam_> Lol, at least hydrogen is renewable!
[11:12] <Adam_> A bit more of my BOC reply: "Our current situation is that we are unable to open any new accounts as we need to protect our gas supplies for existing customers. The issues are expected to continue until the end of September, so if your requirements were after this date, there is a possibility that we could help."
[11:12] <Adam_> It's pretty serious then..
[11:12] <eroomde> Adam_: yes
[11:13] <eroomde> i spent a lot of my time getting sponsors for cusf
[11:13] <eroomde> (cusf.co.uk)
[11:13] <eroomde> about as much time as making things early on
[11:13] <Adam_> I use CUSF landing predictor
[11:13] <daveake> You don't bneed a BOC account anyway, and it's actually cheaper to buy indirectly via a party balloon place rather than with a standard no-discount BOC account
[11:13] <eroomde> sponsorship of parts is easy (we get all our helium free from boc, for example) but money is much harder at the moment
[11:13] <eroomde> was again easier back in 2006/7
[11:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0
[11:14] <Adam_> Ok, I'll definately look into sponsors then as I can't afford to spend £100's!
[11:15] <eroomde> you'll get lots of rejections
[11:15] <eroomde> but it's a question of selling it right
[11:15] <eroomde> and so that you don't get yourself into trouble, they are not buying a service from you, they are sponsoring you
[11:15] <eroomde> their money should not be contingent on whether or not it works
[11:15] <daveake> I'm doing it wrong; I sponsored someone else's launch :D
[11:16] <eroomde> some companies don't really understand that
[11:16] <kokey> low carbon way of electronics transportation by flight
[11:16] <Laurenceb> low carbon
[11:16] <Laurenceb> high helium
[11:16] <eroomde> well our outreach stuff made getting sponsors very much easier
[11:16] <eroomde> we dined off the teds in space thing for quite some time
[11:17] <eroomde> and launches are cheap
[11:17] <costyn> Adam_: well not all the bits you require will be cheap unfortunately
[11:17] <eroomde> it's getting money to experiment with stuff that costs
[11:17] <Adam_> Do you reccomend I setup a website for the project for potential sponsors?
[11:17] <costyn> Adam_: if you want to get sponsors yes, having a place they can read up on what you are going to do and why etc
[11:18] <costyn> Adam_: and how it could profit *them* :)
[11:18] <Adam_> I'd thought about applying to grant funds etc for say £1000, then I could choose what to spend it on. GoPro looks like a potential sponsor, but because of the cost of their cameras I guess I'd need a few good launches to show them that they won't be wasting their time!
[11:19] <eroomde> i don't think gopro would be a good sponsor actually
[11:19] <costyn> well you should stay well under 1000 for your first launch
[11:19] <kokey> you can get away with less money if you have a lot of time on your hands
[11:19] <eroomde> 'hey i want to do something cool and unusually with your camera, sponsor me!'
[11:19] <costyn> especially if you don't take a very expensive gopro
[11:19] <kokey> is my philosophy
[11:19] <eroomde> 'er... that's just our normal market anyway. go away'
[11:19] <costyn> eroomde: exactly
[11:19] <Adam_> Exactly, that's the problem.
[11:20] <kokey> yeah and there's been a number of gopro launches already
[11:20] <daveake> FWIW I spend approx £25 on the video cameras I use, and about the same for the stills cameras
[11:20] <Adam_> Why sponsor me when that's what their cameras are meant to be used for!
[11:20] <eroomde> you have to do something that's cheap for them and unusual for them
[11:20] <eroomde> so lets say you want to get something machined
[11:20] <kokey> daveake hit on something with his pi launch
[11:20] <eroomde> go to a firm that machines stuff for industrial sausage makers
[11:21] <eroomde> and offer to fly their logo into space and do a little thing for them about how stuff they made went to the edge of the atmopshere, with lots of photos of the curvature of the earth
[11:21] <kokey> so perhaps other gadget, dev board, etc. makers
[11:21] <Adam_> Yeah
[11:21] <eroomde> that's the kind of thing that works, doesn't cost them much and is a nice selling point for them
[11:21] <daveake> Th Pi people certainly loved that fight
[11:21] <daveake> flight
[11:21] <costyn> Adam_: how much could you pay out of your own pocket? you might be able to make it work without sponsoring
[11:21] <costyn> sponsoring is a lot of extra time and effort that might not even pay off in the end
[11:22] <Adam_> Not sure really, depends on the cost of everything I'd need. Maybe £100
[11:22] <costyn> ok well that's too little :)
[11:22] <Adam_> Haha :)
[11:22] <Adam_> Dave, any more launches planned for the Pi?
[11:22] <costyn> you might get away with 200 - 300
[11:22] <kokey> also some stuff you need, you only need for a short period of time, so you don't have to own it
[11:23] <eroomde> Adam_: build a payload anyway. you can do that for £100
[11:23] <eroomde> then try and solve the problem of paying for a flight
[11:23] <kokey> if you live close to someone you can share gear with that can help
[11:23] <eroomde> someone might even take you up on one of their balloons as an extra payload, you never know...
[11:23] <costyn> true, but balloon ad helium will set you back :)
[11:23] <daveake> Adam_ Waiting on the Pi people for a couple of things. Hoping for September however that's a busy month for me.
[11:24] <daveake> There have been a few launches recently where 2 people have flown their payloads under the same balloon, saving costs.
[11:24] <kokey> on that note, considering the He situation, I probably want to collaborate with someone on launching with H2
[11:24] <Adam_> I'm looking at getting a solid styrofoam box.
[11:25] <Adam_> Problem is, 50% of the time I test launches with the CUSF, it shows it going into the North Sea!
[11:25] <Adam_> So I wouldn't want that to happen.
[11:25] <Adam_> Off for lunch, back in 10!
[11:26] <kokey> Adam_: where are you?
[11:26] <kokey> (apart from lunch that is, hehe)
[11:26] <costyn> kokey: thought he said he was in linconshire
[11:26] <daveake> He did
[11:27] <eroomde> hey look what i found on dougs vimeo page!
[11:27] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1628991
[11:28] <eroomde> all of the nova 8 photos during ascent in movie form
[11:28] <eroomde> lots of blureage until the sun pops up
[11:30] <kokey> oh I first thought he took 6 stills per second
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[11:34] <Adam_> I'm back!
[11:35] <Randomskk> hi!
[11:35] <Randomskk> you should come to the UKHAS conference ;D
[11:35] <Randomskk> it'l be full of people to chat to about HABs and also talks and lunch
[11:35] <Randomskk> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2012
[11:36] <Adam_> I don't drive though lol
[11:36] <Randomskk> take the train, it's central london
[11:37] <Adam_> I'll see what it'll cost.
[11:37] <Adam_> Where has everyone else gone? haha
[11:38] <costyn> Adam_: back to work I guess :)
[11:38] <Randomskk> they're all around :P
[11:38] <costyn> Adam_: look at the link Randomskk posted, has details on costs etc
[11:38] <Randomskk> haha yea I'm at work but waiting for some things to compute
[11:38] <Randomskk> http://xkcd.com/303/ etc
[11:38] <Adam_> haha
[11:39] <daveake> lol
[11:39] <Adam_> I need to have a brainstorm this afternoon on a plan of action!! :)
[11:40] <Adam_> Looks like I need to give the CAA 28days notice, but that's rather hard as I can't tell what the wind will be like..
[11:41] <daveake> Choose a date/dates that suit you, then fingers crossed. I usually add a few backup dates, but it's normally easy to say "Sorry couldn't launch can I have next weekend now?"
[11:41] <daveake> And the further west your launch site, the better, in general
[11:42] <costyn> Adam_: basically decide which bits you want to use. GPS and microcontroller are necessary at any rate. Radio module you'll need too, you can use the NTX2 or RFM22B (both available in Upu's store). Temp sensors are easy and fun, pressure you can do too, but i personally find it less interesting. You can include a camera too (cheap 2nd hand canon powershot with custom firmware)
[11:42] <Adam_> Haha, well Lincoln is East :(
[11:42] <daveake> Flights generally end up NE of the launch site
[11:42] <costyn> Adam_: after you've deciced on what you want, you can source/order them from places on the web and then wait giddily for the postman to arrive
[11:42] <Adam_> Yep, North Sea then!
[11:42] <costyn> :)
[11:43] <daveake> Been there done that
[11:43] <costyn> Adam_: you could try a slow ascent an send it across the north sea
[11:43] <Randomskk> harder to recover generally though
[11:43] <costyn> Adam_: if you land it in Holland I'll go & pick it up for you
[11:43] <Adam_> How to retrieve it? Coastguard? :D
[11:43] <Randomskk> hehe or that ^
[11:43] <daveake> I thnk every recovery system has been done by now :)
[11:43] <Adam_> Haha, not sure it'd make it that far!
[11:43] <costyn> Adam_: if Germany we have Lunar-Lander, if Belgium one of the HAB guys there :)
[11:44] <daveake> One of mine got recovered in Belgium by one of the HAB guys there
[11:44] <costyn> Adam_: try the predictor with a slower ascent rate, like 2 or 3
[11:44] <daveake> float-tas-tic
[11:44] <Adam_> I actually make pyrotechnic model rockets as another hobby, so would be cool to make something with that too..
[11:44] <Randomskk> haha
[11:44] <Randomskk> you'd think that
[11:44] <costyn> daveake: well yes high risk of floaty mcfloats
[11:44] <Randomskk> but I'd probably avoid trying it for a while
[11:45] <Adam_> Yeah, I want to get some figures before putting expensive stuff in the payload
[11:45] <Adam_> Haha
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[11:45] <Adam_> I had an idea just now, what about a National HAB Recovery Database website? :)
[11:45] <Adam_> Haha
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[11:46] <costyn> well usually people go chase their own balloons
[11:46] <kokey> perhaps just add the last coordinates to the geocaching sites ;-)
[11:46] <Adam_> yeah
[11:46] <costyn> kokey: now that's pretty clever :)
[11:46] <Adam_> thats a good idea
[11:46] <Adam_> i used to geocache.
[11:47] <costyn> were there any recent payloads that landed on land and weren't retrieved? I can't remember any
[11:47] jsowman_ (516ada42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.106.218.66) joined #highaltitude.
[11:48] <costyn> the ones that are 'lost' are usually the ones that splashdown
[11:48] <Adam_> About tracking, any reccomendations on a tracking module? I've seen relatively cheap £40-50 ones which have a SIM card on eBay
[11:48] <Adam_> Don't want that to happen!
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[11:49] <Randomskk> that arduino transmits its GPS coords over radio
[11:49] <Randomskk> which you pick up
[11:49] <Randomskk> there are a few GSM things on ebay
[11:49] <costyn> Adam_: those tracking modules are good for backup, but not reliable enough as your main tracker
[11:50] <Randomskk> no harm in including one in the payload - can save you
[11:50] <Randomskk> but strictly as a backup system
[11:50] <costyn> plus it's more fun to get an update every 20 seconds asto where your balloon is in th sky
[11:50] <Adam_> Oh ok, I don't have a ham radio.. how does that work?
[11:50] <kokey> so how long does it take from wanting a NOTAM to being allowed to launch?
[11:50] <UpuWork> you can use an SDR
[11:50] <Adam_> 28days I think
[11:50] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[11:50] <Adam_> Hi Upu!
[11:51] <costyn> Adam_: SDR is cheapest if you don't already have a radio
[11:51] <Adam_> ok
[11:51] <UpuWork> Still here and not been scared off yet
[11:51] <costyn> UpuWork: nope, he's getting a drink from the information firehose :)
[11:52] <Adam_> Haha, it's getting complex now. :)
[11:52] <UpuWork> information tsunami more like
[11:52] <UpuWork> "Hi I want to launch a balloon"
[11:52] <Randomskk> Adam_: but a lot of other people do have radios
[11:52] <Randomskk> and are very keen to listen to it as well
[11:52] <UpuWork> is usually followed by information overload
[11:52] <Randomskk> so usually during flight others can help track
[11:52] <costyn> http://api.ning.com/files/kX*LFPvx4SFMMQMYsrSDIAYo8LYm-kfSSQfMh2w2kYQPOgupyqH2z19KNwPclicam8JamHJLNl4ixdp*ZIaKr5Dz*c7OD-k-/wharrgarbl.jpg
[11:52] <Adam_> costyn - haha
[11:53] <Adam_> so how can radio waves tell me where it is?
[11:53] <kokey> ok so if I want to launch on september 1 then it's too late for me to get a NOTAM organised?
[11:53] <Adam_> is there some sort of formula the dongle does to figure it out?
[11:53] <UpuWork> In short you take the location from a GPS
[11:53] <UpuWork> and transmit it via the radio
[11:53] <UpuWork> which isn't complex
[11:54] <Adam_> kokey - officially i think, although not sure if others have had success doing it with less notice..
[11:54] <costyn> Adam_: the microcontroller reads the gps data, encodes it, sends it by radio, computer receives it, decodes it
[11:54] <UpuWork> You know the Arduino blink program ?
[11:54] <Adam_> upu - yes!
[11:54] <UpuWork> Well thats as complex as transmitting via a radio gets
[11:54] <costyn> hahaah
[11:54] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[11:54] <costyn> UpuWork: optimist
[11:54] <Adam_> oh, so like on/off?
[11:54] <UpuWork> not really
[11:54] <Adam_> 0,1 etC?
[11:54] <UpuWork> you got it
[11:54] <daveake> 2 tones
[11:54] <UpuWork> read tha link
[11:54] <daveake> low = 0 high = 1
[11:54] <UpuWork> or add it to the ever expanding list of stuff you need to read :)
[11:55] <kokey> looks like all I'd be able to do before the end of September is a test pico launch
[11:55] <Gadget-Work> Adam_, I'm about 2 weeks ahead of you......
[11:55] <Adam_> wow, i really need to set aside some time to figure this all out
[11:55] <Gadget-Work> it all get easier trust me.
[11:55] <Adam_> gadget - oh, how come?:)
[11:55] <UpuWork> you do :)
[11:55] <costyn> Adam_: yup, it's quite a lot to learn and digest
[11:55] <UpuWork> just take your time
[11:55] <Gadget-Work> Adam_, I was asking similar questions about 2 weeks ago, although I've got more background in some of it
[11:55] <UpuWork> break it down into modules
[11:55] <daveake> There is a lot to learn, but when you've got it you'll think that none of it was really that complex. It's just daunting at first.
[11:56] <costyn> Adam_: it gets easier as you learn more and will be like 'oh I've read that before, I know what that means'
[11:56] <Adam_> at least once the main tracking stuff is done I can progress the other stuff
[11:56] <Gadget-Work> oh7lzb, you need an understanding credit card as well :)
[11:56] <Adam_> haha
[11:56] <Gadget-Work> Grrr. Tab completiom
[11:56] <kokey> yeah tracking is the biggie, but because of all the work everyone has already done it's loads easier and cheaper than say 5 years ago
[11:56] <oh7lzb> Oh, I do?
[11:56] <daveake> Mine has melted. Like the Pi payload nearly did.
[11:56] <oh7lzb> :)
[11:57] <Adam_> hoping to get BOC to sponsor for the gas, but they said they can only supply me with helium from the start of October
[11:57] <Adam_> dave - what?!
[11:57] <Gadget-Work> oh7lzb, sorry about that. But if you've got an understanding CC that would be most useful
[11:57] <Randomskk> Adam_: what are you a student in? I might have missed it
[11:57] <Adam_> I'm studying double computing (mainly computer science) and chemistry
[11:57] <Randomskk> cool
[11:58] <Gadget-Work> Unfortunately finding HAS has re-kindled my Amateur radio interest
[11:58] <kokey> double computing, funny phrase
[11:58] <Adam_> haha
[11:58] <Gadget-Work> HAS = High Altitude Stuff, cos I can't type for toffee
[11:58] <Adam_> I've been to a few National Hamfests in the UK
[11:59] <Adam_> as my grandad's into ham radio and has his own callsign etc
[11:59] <kokey> I keep swapping hab and has with each other in google searches
[11:59] <UpuWork> Adam_ does he have a radio ?
[11:59] <Adam_> i think!
[11:59] <Adam_> many
[11:59] <UpuWork> well you're sorted then
[11:59] <Adam_> does it have to be a certain type?
[12:00] <UpuWork> yeah needs to be able to recieve SSB on 70cms
[12:00] <daveake> Needs to do 434MHz (70cm band) with SSB
[12:00] <Adam_> Ok, i've no idea what that means but I'll email him!
[12:00] <UpuWork> he'll know
[12:00] <daveake> He'll know :)
[12:00] <Adam_> ok
[12:00] <kokey> yeah not AM over HF
[12:00] <Gadget-Work> Thats this weekends task for me, sorting out an external antenna for the scanner
[12:01] <Adam_> So if I use the SSB radio method, does that mean I don't need to use a SIM card?
[12:01] <costyn> Gadget-Work: for during chasing or stationary at home?
[12:01] <Darkside> yes, its entirely separate
[12:01] <costyn> Adam_: indeed
[12:01] <costyn> Adam_: GSM stops working at a couple KM altitude
[12:01] <Adam_> so in that case tracking should be flawless as it doesn't need GSM signal?
[12:02] <Adam_> :)
[12:02] <costyn> exactly
[12:02] <Adam_> so will the radio track throughout?
[12:02] <Randomskk> "should" be flawless
[12:02] <Adam_> :)
[12:02] <Randomskk> unless you have any programming mistakes ;)
[12:02] <Randomskk> or hardware malfunctions...
[12:02] <Randomskk> it's not a bad idea to have the GSM tracker in the box as a backup - you don't need to do anything with it
[12:02] <costyn> Adam_: we've had people in Denmark listen in to payload over Germany, some 700km distane :)
[12:02] Action: daveake hides
[12:03] <Adam_> dave - you do this stuff on a regular basis?! this is all new to me haha
[12:03] <costyn> I think daveake is the most prolific launcher here :)
[12:03] <daveake> Unless you're quite close when it lands, you'll lose the signal when it's landing. So then you head for the predicted landing spot, or the last known position, then you should pick the signal up again
[12:03] <costyn> or call the backup gps/gsm tracker if you included that
[12:03] <Adam_> I should have beat you to it with the Pi launch!t
[12:04] <daveake> Not sure ... I think Steve has done more even during the last year that I've been doing it
[12:04] <UpuWork> I think Steve makes Dave look like a weekend amateur
[12:04] <UpuWork> oh hang on...
[12:04] <Randomskk> :P
[12:04] <Randomskk> >_>
[12:04] <costyn> :)
[12:05] <Adam_> so will I need to do any soldering?
[12:05] <Adam_> or will it all go via jumper leads?
[12:06] <UpuWork> You will need to solder
[12:06] <Adam_> ok
[12:06] <UpuWork> go have a read
[12:07] <costyn> Adam_: I think the quote is "if you don't feel comfortable throwing your payload down a flight of stairs, don't fly it" - it gets bumpy up there :)
[12:07] <Adam_> ok
[12:07] <UpuWork> Can show you a few videos if you want
[12:07] <costyn> UpuWork: payloads flying down stairs?
[12:07] <UpuWork> Well no North Sea
[12:08] <UpuWork> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGLB9-LdpYM
[12:08] <Adam_> "payloads flying down stairs?":)
[12:08] <UpuWork> note how rough it gets
[12:08] <Adam_> it transmitted live throughout the flight? as in the video?
[12:08] <Adam_> i'd always wanted to do that..
[12:08] <costyn> UpuWork: ugh, that horizon is doing some funky movements :)
[12:08] <costyn> Adam_: recorded, not streamed live
[12:09] <Adam_> ok
[12:09] <Adam_> "PIE1 was transmitting live pictures" ?
[12:09] <UpuWork> Some of the people here have done live stills
[12:09] <costyn> well yes, but that was stills, not video
[12:09] <fsphil> video*
[12:09] <fsphil> (5 fpm)
[12:09] <Randomskk> :P
[12:09] <fsphil> er, 1 fpm
[12:09] <fsphil> actually not even that
[12:09] <fsphil> 0.2fpm
[12:10] <daveake> Yeah, average was 4.5min/shot
[12:10] <costyn> if we were allowed more power, we could do video?
[12:10] <Randomskk> 12fph :P
[12:10] <fsphil> easily
[12:10] <fsphil> lol
[12:10] <fsphil> with 4800 baud I think you could do 32x32 video
[12:10] <Adam_> that footage is awesome, just makes me want to get started! :)
[12:11] <fsphil> with about 4fps like the msl used
[12:11] <UpuWork> This is what happens when you get it wrong : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbykWjsQrI
[12:11] <Adam_> I need to create a list of components and equipment..
[12:11] <fsphil> lists are good
[12:11] <Adam_> at least the thing floats!
[12:11] <costyn> UpuWork: memorable video :)
[12:11] <Adam_> how was it recovered?
[12:12] <UpuWork> unsurprisingly by boat
[12:12] <Adam_> coastguard?
[12:12] <Randomskk> though sometimes these things wash up
[12:12] <costyn> which was the one that floated back to shore?
[12:12] <UpuWork> no
[12:12] <UpuWork> Dave's and one of the Apex payloads appeared after a few months
[12:12] <Adam_> you hired a boat?
[12:12] <Gadget-Work> costyn, at home. Fixed ops
[12:12] <UpuWork> yep
[12:13] <Randomskk> http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=badger1&media=badger1_final_fate.jpg
[12:13] <Adam_> wow
[12:13] <costyn> Gadget-Work: ok :)
[12:13] <UpuWork> poor badger :)
[12:13] <daveake> Mine took less than 2 hours to float to shore - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=220
[12:13] <Randomskk> "Unfortunately Badger1 was lost to the north sea on Nova 13. After some months it was found washed up on a beach in Denmark and returned to us&"
[12:13] <Adam_> whats that picture of random?
[12:13] <Randomskk> ^
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[12:13] <UpuWork> a PCB thats been in the sea for 2 months
[12:13] <Randomskk> :P
[12:14] <fsphil> did the SD card survive?
[12:14] <Randomskk> the SD card was fine
[12:14] <Randomskk> heh
[12:14] <Gadget-Work> costyn, something thats simple but effective and to get some height.
[12:14] <fsphil> getouttamyhead ;)
[12:14] <Gadget-Work> I've been thinking about one of those fibreglass poles that others have used
[12:14] <Adam_> dave
[12:15] <daveake> adam
[12:15] <fsphil> really really high altitude: http://www.esa.int/images/MSG-3_first_image_7aug12_H.jpg
[12:15] <fsphil> 40000km
[12:15] <costyn> Gadget-Work: colinears are apparently good, but there are loads of other people here with much more knowledge on the subject than I
[12:15] <Adam_> i'm looking at that 'Back to Shore' picture, of a website which I recognise.. how do you get your HAB balloon tracking to feature on there?
[12:16] <Adam_> fsphil, i've got a poster just like that!
[12:16] <Adam_> picked it up free last october at a hamfest
[12:16] <Adam_> radio rally
[12:16] <fsphil> nice
[12:16] <daveake> ping UpuWork
[12:16] <Adam_> unfortunately i'm away when it's on this year
[12:17] <daveake> Just had postire knock on the door with my latest set of supplies .... and he says "What the hell is "UPU POST"?" lol
[12:17] <fsphil> 40000 hab points to the first person here to take an image from that altitude :)
[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "[UKHAS] CUSF Launch - Friday 10/08/12"
[12:17] <daveake> postie
[12:17] <UpuWork> haha
[12:17] <fsphil> lol
[12:17] <UpuWork> best post...
[12:17] <daveake> That's what I said :D
[12:17] <Adam_> what is a UPU post? :)
[12:17] <fsphil> why you all launch when I not here :p
[12:18] <UpuWork> buy something from my shop and you will find out :)
[12:18] <jsowman_> sorry fsphil
[12:18] <Randomskk> :P
[12:18] <Randomskk> fsphil why you keep going away when we launch :(
[12:19] <Adam_> what's your shops URL again?
[12:19] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store
[12:19] <Adam_> might be able to get some of my supplies there :)
[12:19] <fsphil> wonder if I can stream the funcube audio
[12:20] <fsphil> or just bring it
[12:20] <daveake> Ah, PSU for the new car PC has arrived.
[12:20] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/gZLb4.jpg?1
[12:20] <UpuWork> ping nosebleedkt
[12:21] <costyn> Adam_: the Ublox GPSes Upu sells work above 18km, which not all GPS modules do, so buying from Upu is just very convenient. Plus he sells the custom breakout boards for the modules and sells them pre-assembled with antenna. It just doesn't get easier :)
[12:21] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/lX4iE
[12:22] <Adam_> is that with the radio system or the GSM?
[12:22] <UpuWork> with whatever you decide to use
[12:22] <UpuWork> all the GPS module does is give out its position you need to decide what to do with it
[12:23] <Adam_> ok
[12:23] <UpuWork> seriously tempted to have the day off and test the new antennas :/
[12:23] <eroomde> back from lunch. roast beef on fresh brown bread. i love the deli
[12:23] <UpuWork> was it pink ?
[12:24] <eroomde> UpuWork: see if u can burn some pigeons out of the sky
[12:24] <eroomde> yes it was cooked just right
[12:24] <daveake> Oh good; foil balloon has arrived.
[12:24] <UpuWork> or the kids who kick footballs at my card
[12:24] <eroomde> a foil balloon might make a good ground plane
[12:24] <Adam_> foil balloon?
[12:24] <eroomde> and have the active antenna just going down
[12:24] <Adam_> so the radar can see it?
[12:25] <costyn> Adam_: you know those kids balloons in shapes?
[12:25] <UpuWork> card=car
[12:25] <eroomde> Adam_: tiny balloons. niceh thing don;t worry about it
[12:25] <costyn> Adam_: http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20110803/Foil_Balloon_Special_Kids_Toy_Balloons_Mickey.jpg
[12:25] <costyn> Adam_: advanced HABbin :)
[12:25] <costyn> habbing
[12:25] <Adam_> haha
[12:25] <daveake> They're used with tiny trackers (no cameras etc) and don't get high (6km max)
[12:26] <nick_> A quick post about using web sockets and some pics of my new scintillator set up: bit.ly/mbedCosmic4
[12:26] <Adam_> "DVB-T dongles based on the Realtek RTL2832U can be used as a cheap SDR, since the chip allows transferring the raw I/Q samples to the host, which is officially used for DAB/DAB+/FM demodulation."
[12:26] <Adam_> i have a usb tv receiver...
[12:26] <Adam_> can that be used?
[12:26] <daveake> I have one of UpuWork's trackers here that he thoughtlessly landed in the Oxfordshire countryside, and I need to get rid of it :D
[12:26] <UpuWork> lol
[12:27] <Randomskk> Adam_: it depends on the model you hav
[12:27] <Randomskk> some of them, yes
[12:27] <UpuWork> pull it apart and see waht the chip is
[12:27] <UpuWork> there will be 2
[12:27] <Adam_> it says DVB-T TV STICK on the outside
[12:28] <Randomskk> possibly the most generic thing it could possibly say
[12:28] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_0693.JPG
[12:28] <Adam_> haha
[12:28] <UpuWork> lol
[12:28] <Adam_> i'll open it up?
[12:28] <UpuWork> yeah get it open
[12:28] <Adam_> those pics are of one i guess
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[12:29] <Adam_> damn screws are too small even for the tiny screwdriver..
[12:29] <UpuWork> those are pics of 2 Elonics ones
[12:29] <UpuWork> it has screws ?
[12:29] <UpuWork> it won't work
[12:29] <UpuWork> nothing with screws is cheap enough :)
[12:29] <Adam_> the screws on the case
[12:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham Shirville "Re: [UKHAS] CUSF Launch - Friday 10/08/12"
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[12:31] <Adam_> i'm just looking for the most cost-effective setup
[12:31] <Adam_> don't want to use an expensive radio if i can use something else..
[12:31] <kokey> I'm wondering if the lower model AOR scanners will do
[12:31] <Randomskk> the expensive radios are generally quite a bit better
[12:31] <kokey> like the AR700 or 900
[12:31] <Randomskk> if your grandfather has a suitable radio I'd definitely use that
[12:31] <Darkside> WillDuckworth:
[12:32] <Darkside> i've tested the ublox modules at orbital speeds
[12:32] <Darkside> they don't work
[12:32] <eroomde> surprise of the day
[12:32] <Adam_> ezcap USB 2.0 DVB-T/DAB/FM dongle is in the compatible devices list..
[12:32] <Randomskk> is that what you have?
[12:32] <eroomde> i tested to see if in egg could survive me jumping on it from a height of 2m
[12:32] <eroomde> it couldn't
[12:33] <UpuWork> you need to open it up Adam
[12:35] <kokey> eroomde: the joke would have been on you if it was a fake egg
[12:35] <costyn> Darkside: how did you test them at orbital speeds?
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[12:36] <kokey> but I'm not going to let your anecdotal experience convince me that normal eggs aren't tough
[12:36] <eroomde> kokey: i would have had to be taken to eggcident and emergency
[12:37] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:37] <eroomde> but in this case the joke wasn't on me
[12:37] <eroomde> the yolk was tho
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[12:38] <costyn> how did this derail to jumping on eggs?
[12:38] <Adam_> hi again
[12:38] <Adam_> think my connection went bad..
[12:39] <fsphil> eroomde doing puns? this is really eggciting
[12:39] <eroomde> costyn: sorry for scambling the conversation
[12:39] <eroomde> scrambling*
[12:39] <costyn> :D
[12:39] <Randomskk> stop egging him on fsphil
[12:40] <eroomde> om, let's get the conversation back on track
[12:40] <costyn> yea that's more egg-citing
[12:40] <eroomde> (subtle but i'm proud of that one)
[12:40] <Randomskk> costyn: booo, fsphil already said that
[12:40] <UpuWork> conversation or covulation ?
[12:40] <costyn> Randomskk: erp... my bad :(
[12:40] <fsphil> right, lets crack on
[12:41] <UpuWork> Anyway Adam this is sort of normal
[12:41] <UpuWork> serious talk then we go to pun 1/2 hour
[12:41] <costyn> Randomskk: sorry I should've have egg-amined it more closely
[12:41] <Darkside> costyn: hax
[12:41] <Randomskk> don't worry, I'm not in that much of a flap about it
[12:41] <daveake> I'm so glad no-one here is called Benedict
[12:41] <costyn> Darkside: k :)
[12:41] <Randomskk> UpuWork: more like when ed takes his lunch break
[12:42] <costyn> daveake: I have a German friend named Benedikt
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[12:43] <eroomde> sometimes the puns go off the boil
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[12:43] <eroomde> they even verge into being fry-ghtfully bad
[12:43] <daveake> He's been poached from another channel
[12:44] <WillDuckworth> Cheers Darkside - thought that was the case. Ed - thanks. Eggscellent convo as always.
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[12:45] <Adam_> haha
[12:45] <Adam_> ok so I'm going to compile a components list this afternoon
[12:46] <eroomde> good idea, online shops prefer machine code
[12:46] <costyn> haa
[12:46] <Adam_> :)
[12:46] <eroomde> i'm finished now
[12:46] <eroomde> sorry
[12:46] <eroomde> serious face
[12:46] <eroomde> :|
[12:46] <eroomde> continue Adam_
[12:47] <Randomskk> no I think there's still some egg on your face eroomde
[12:47] <Randomskk> just there.
[12:47] <jsowman> shell we stop now?
[12:47] <Randomskk> jsowman is the hard-boiled cop of #ha
[12:47] <Adam_> ok so i'm just reading through http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[12:48] <UpuWork> I redid that last night
[12:48] <Adam_> you run the website?
[12:48] <eroomde> it's a wiki
[12:48] <eroomde> we all do
[12:48] <Adam_> oh awesome
[12:48] <eroomde> happy unicorns etc
[12:48] <eroomde> upu is responsible for a lot of the very good, clearn introductory content tho
[12:49] <eroomde> clearn = clear and clean
[12:49] <Randomskk> nice save
[12:49] <UpuWork> lol
[12:49] <daveake> :)
[12:49] <UpuWork> eroomde is making words up now :)
[12:51] <Adam_> also, any idea how much helium i will need?
[12:51] <Randomskk> http://cusf.co.uk/calc
[12:51] <Adam_> just to get an idea of cost or for sponsors
[12:51] <Adam_> :D
[12:51] <daveake> The £80 one
[12:51] <daveake> Well that's last week's price :p
[12:52] <UpuWork> Adam_ make a working payload then worry about the gas
[12:52] <Adam_> ok
[12:52] <eroomde> agreed, don't worry about 200 things in parallel
[12:52] <eroomde> forget all about the flight, step 1 is payload
[12:52] <Adam_> Upu, does your shop offer a student discount? :D haha
[12:52] <daveake> For an idea of cost though, given that it's a photo payload, then stick down £80 against Helium
[12:52] <UpuWork> Actually yes
[12:52] <UpuWork> use coupon code UKHAS when you check out
[12:52] <Adam_> I'm in luck!
[12:53] <Adam_> ok thanks
[12:54] <Adam_> which balloon to use?
[12:54] <Adam_> there are so many types..
[12:54] <eroomde> 1600g
[12:54] <eroomde> the special
[12:54] <jsowman> the unpredictable
[12:54] <Adam_> woah, thought 500g was the usual?
[12:54] <UpuWork> Adam_ again make a payload you can decide what you want to do after that
[12:54] <eroomde> the guy who stitched our panorama together has been hard at work - he's genuinely very very good at this stuff
[12:54] <eroomde> http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/uploads/post-16-1344419844_thumb.jpg
[12:54] <Adam_> ok
[12:55] <UpuWork> look forward to the big version :)
[12:55] <Adam_> haha
[12:55] <UpuWork> As a rule of thumb make it as light as possible
[12:55] <daveake> I think 800g-1000g is more typical for your average photo payload
[12:55] <UpuWork> light = safer, less gas, higher
[12:55] <daveake> But you can decide on that when you know how much your payload will weigh
[12:55] <Adam_> ok
[12:55] <Adam_> i do have a styrofoam box, but the wall is only about 1cm thick and it's rather small
[12:56] <eroomde> that's fine
[12:56] <Adam_> might only just fit in a camera and a small PCB
[12:56] <costyn> as long as it's strong enough
[12:56] <UpuWork> sounds perfect
[12:56] <eroomde> cover it in bright orange or pink gaffa tape if you want
[12:56] <UpuWork> just spray it pink
[12:56] <eroomde> for visibility and strength
[12:56] <UpuWork> and for cool
[12:56] <daveake> lol
[12:56] <eroomde> check your spraypaint doesn't dissolve polystyrene
[12:56] <eroomde> some do
[12:56] <UpuWork> pink payload is best payload
[12:56] <costyn> heh
[12:56] <daveake> water-based - acrylic is perfect
[12:56] <UpuWork> yeah what eroomde says that would be lol
[12:57] <Adam_> 18cm x 12cm x 8cm is the outside dimensions..
[12:57] <costyn> Adam_: I'd worry about that last; build your tracker, come back in a few months when that's done and then lets talk payload boxes :)
[12:57] <Adam_> ok
[12:58] <eroomde> there's a theme emerging in the advice here Adam_ :)
[12:58] <Adam_> so how can i test if my DVB-T will work with SSB?
[12:58] <Adam_> :)
[12:58] <Randomskk> open it up
[12:58] <Randomskk> read the name & number on the chips inside
[12:58] <Adam_> cant i just plug it in?
[12:58] <daveake> By far the most important part is the tracker, so put your efforts into getting that built/coded/tested/tested/tested/tested/tested/tested
[12:59] <Adam_> ok
[12:59] <Randomskk> daveake: I think you missed a few tests there
[12:59] <costyn> Adam_: yes, but you don't have a tracker which can generate radio signals to see if it'll hearit :)
[12:59] <Randomskk> Adam_: maybe, though it'd be easier to open it. but it almost certainly won't work
[12:59] <daveake> and having tested the hell out of it, don't change anything :)
[12:59] <daveake> I got bored :D
[12:59] <Randomskk> basically only one specific model does :P
[12:59] <Randomskk> well- no.
[12:59] <Randomskk> but, well
[12:59] <Randomskk> search around for rtlsdr and so forth, there's a heap of random programs you can use
[13:01] <Adam_> ok thanks
[13:01] <Adam_> so the components for the tracker are here? :http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[13:02] <UpuWork> a tracker consists of a radio, a GPS and a microcontroller to link it all together
[13:02] <UpuWork> you can then add on stuff like temperature, pressure, GSM as you see fit
[13:03] <UpuWork> all that Wiki page does is show you how to make an NTX2 module transmit using an Arduino
[13:05] <Adam_> but once i've done that i'm halfway there?
[13:06] <Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/JanitavdLeeden/status/233172782941347840
[13:08] <eroomde> jajajaja
[13:09] <UpuWork> Adam. Go read. Alot :)
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[13:09] <costyn> Laurenceb: why the link to a Dutch twatter post?
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[13:09] <costyn> oh wait
[13:10] <costyn> I thought she used the end to take the lid off
[13:10] <costyn> turns out she's blonde
[13:13] <daveake> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2184966/Mars-Curiosity-Internet-pranksters-set-work-viral-pictures-help-Photoshop.html
[13:15] <eroomde> amazing :D
[13:15] <nick_> eroomde: I've been told to poke you to poke your boss about an undergrad project
[13:15] <eroomde> ah right yes sure
[13:16] <eroomde> let me go now
[13:16] <nick_> And could you pass it on to someone at REL?
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[13:21] <Adam_> Ok, i'm going to go and plan now
[13:21] <Adam_> Any advice on where to start?
[13:21] <UpuWork> read :)
[13:21] <UpuWork> Wiki
[13:21] <UpuWork> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[13:22] <UpuWork> that
[13:22] <Adam_> i'm readying :)
[13:22] <Adam_> reading
[13:22] <UpuWork> then read peoples blogs
[13:22] <Adam_> thanks
[13:22] <Adam_> ok :)
[13:22] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects
[13:23] <eroomde> nick_: rel are all still on holiday
[13:23] <eroomde> they're all taking like all of august post farnborough
[13:23] <eroomde> i have an awesome new desktop background
[13:23] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/a89rx.jpg
[13:24] <eroomde> will inspire me to keep making
[13:24] <UpuWork> nice
[13:24] <Gadget-Work> Very cool.
[13:24] <Gadget-Work> Question about tracking, is it possible to automate dl-fldigi & the scanner so it can run un-attended ?
[13:25] <UpuWork> yep if your radio is tunable remotely
[13:25] <UpuWork> dl-fldigi can track and retune with reason
[13:25] <UpuWork> within
[13:25] <UpuWork> however occasionally it will need manual intervention
[13:25] <UpuWork> depends how stable the flight is
[13:26] <eroomde> it occassionally tunes without reason too
[13:26] <Randomskk> hopefully get the newer tuning script in one day
[13:27] <Randomskk> if someone has python they can use the one I wrote a while back
[13:27] <Randomskk> it tunes in fine steps continuously
[13:31] <Gadget-Work> Ok.
[13:33] <Adam_> to use the radio for tracking, will I need a callsign?
[13:33] <Randomskk> no
[13:33] <Adam_> ok
[13:33] <costyn> UpuWork: maybe the getting started pageshould be updated to reflect that LiPo's do not like cold at all
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[13:34] <costyn> UpuWork: of course I could do it, but peraps someone who actually flew a lipo would be better suited
[13:34] <Adam_> and i'm just thinking, i'm on spacenear.us, if other radios are up and running won't they transmit it to the online GPS server without me having a radio?
[13:34] <costyn> Adam_: exactly
[13:34] <Adam_> but how would that work?
[13:35] <costyn> Adam_: that's the beauty of using the radio system: other people listening to your payload for you. Of course, you have to tell them you're launching so they can tune their radios to the right frequency
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[13:35] <costyn> Adam_: and set up dl-fldigi (the software modem you run on your laptop) can decode the RTTY signal
[13:36] <Adam_> but surely many devices can interfere with each other as each one has the same frequency?
[13:36] <craag> The balloon payload is the only transmitter.
[13:36] <costyn> Adam_: this is pretty much how every flight is done. Most flights at least have 5 or 6 different listeners all receving the same data. If one happens to miss a few bits someone else will have heard them
[13:36] <costyn> Adam_: and usually there is only 1 balloon in the air at a time.
[13:36] <daveake> Hmmmm
[13:37] <costyn> although lately that's not been true :)
[13:37] <Adam_> so that builds up a more accurate gps placement on the map?
[13:37] <daveake> Sometimes 3 or 4 but we choose different ferquencies
[13:37] <costyn> Adam_: no, the GPS determines the location
[13:37] <costyn> Adam_: so more listeners doesn't mean more accuracy
[13:37] <costyn> (the GPS in the payload under your balloon)
[13:38] <Adam_> so let me get this straight, if I make a a setup and power it up on the ground, i don't have to have a radio?
[13:38] <daveake> Adam_ Your payload transmits a message (sentence) containing the GPS location. Hopefully at least one receiver will get the complete sentence, so the map gets updated with the new data. If more than one receiver gets the same sentence the server/map don't care - it's the same data n times
[13:38] <Adam_> for testing for example, would others radios put it up on the server?
[13:38] <costyn> Adam_: well on groundlevel your rado won't be powerful enough to pass through trees and houses, so no one else will hear it
[13:38] <daveake> You need a radio yourself to make sure it's working.
[13:38] <eroomde> on the ground your payload wouldn;t have the range to reach other radios
[13:38] <Adam_> ok
[13:38] <costyn> Adam_: it might propagate a few 100 meters
[13:38] <eroomde> you'd need one
[13:38] <daveake> Once it's say 500m up then others will start receiving
[13:38] <eroomde> also other people aren't going to want to tune in to a few tests on a bench
[13:39] <Adam_> I think it's awesome that all of the balloon flights go up on that central website
[13:39] <eroomde> but your usb dongle (have you taken it apart yet?) might be all you need to check it works on the ground
[13:39] <costyn> Adam_: yes it is :) fun for the whole community
[13:39] <jsowman> Adam_: where are you based?
[13:39] <Adam_> lincolnshire
[13:39] <Adam_> england
[13:39] <costyn> Adam_: you should join the channel next weekend when there will be a launch
[13:39] <Adam_> ok
[13:40] <Adam_> on 11th august?
[13:40] <Randomskk> or friday
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[13:40] <Adam_> it says something about that on the site
[13:40] <Randomskk> you should join the mailing list
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[13:40] <Randomskk> which is where launches are announced
[13:40] <Adam_> ok
[13:40] <Randomskk> but there should be one going up on friday
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[13:41] <UpuWork> I've never flown a LiPo costyn
[13:42] <costyn> UpuWork: do you know who has?
[13:42] <eroomde> we have
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[13:42] <eroomde> but the epistemic security of what we know of lipo performance is not particularly threatened by who edits the wiki
[13:42] <eroomde> so go for it
[13:43] <Randomskk> I flew lipos
[13:43] <Randomskk> it worked fine
[13:43] <Randomskk> no problems >_>
[13:43] <Randomskk> on more than one occasion
[13:43] <eroomde> same with us (badger cub)
[13:43] <Adam_> OK
[13:43] <Randomskk> but people seem to not like them
[13:43] <Adam_> i've opened up the tv receiver
[13:43] <Randomskk> and generally the best advice is to use lithium AAs
[13:43] <Randomskk> (which are not lipo)
[13:43] <Randomskk> (nor rechargable)
[13:43] <costyn> ok
[13:44] <costyn> well since there's no consensus I'll leave it as is
[13:44] <craag> Adam_: What are the numbers on the chips inside?
[13:44] <Adam_> first is:
[13:45] <eroomde> if the wiki is there to guide newbies from the path of doom, edit it. the wiki is not so much there for people who have done a few flights already
[13:45] <Adam_> DiBcom 7070PB1?
[13:45] <craag> particularly looking for RTL2832
[13:45] <Adam_> there are loads of numbers on it
[13:45] <craag> E4000 or FC0012 or FC0013 or RTL2832?
[13:45] <daveake> UpuWork does this work for you on Sunday? :) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=cdc5682e9440fd1f3d7168ca11a772872552a00a
[13:46] <Adam_> don't think any of those are on the chips
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[13:46] <craag> Ah, probably not compatible unfortunately.
[13:46] <Adam_> dave - wow! thats one crazy flight
[13:46] <Adam_> ok.
[13:46] <daveake> Foil floater
[13:47] <Randomskk> daveake: pretty sure taht's the predictor breaking down
[13:47] <Randomskk> you need to increase the lat/lon deltas
[13:47] <costyn> hahaha that looks... interestign
[13:48] <Randomskk> the predictor is not very happy about this
[13:48] <daveake> Usually it does a Mandelbrot on these L(
[13:48] <daveake> :)
[13:48] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=32d37fdee029b28b79a44ee6506042ec12982d4e
[13:48] <Randomskk> predictor still doesn't manage
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[13:49] <craag> Adam_: Just looked it up, definetely not compatible. What you need is one of these: http://goo.gl/oKEAB
[13:49] <daveake> I'm trying to loose the tracker - it's Upu's one that got attacked by Triffids and we think the radio is down on power
[13:50] <daveake> A path that goes up past Upu will do fine :)
[13:50] <Adam_> that one will work?
[13:50] <craag> Adam_: Yes, I bought 2 from that seller the other week.
[13:50] <Adam_> i'll buy it
[13:51] <Adam_> will it be simple to get it working?
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[13:51] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[13:51] <Adam_> i mean, have you used it with a launch?
[13:51] <UpuWork> good question and no
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[13:51] <UpuWork> but it will work for testing
[13:51] <Randomskk> they do work for launch but are not great
[13:51] <Randomskk> if you can get your hands on a proper radio I'd definitely do that
[13:52] <Adam_> ok
[13:52] <Adam_> i'll buy that for the time being then
[13:52] <Adam_> to try and setup a basic system
[13:52] <daveake> Some of us are going to test them with an external amplifier/filter this weekend
[13:53] <daveake> Without that they're poor
[13:53] <daveake> Well mine was anyway
[13:53] <Adam_> ok
[13:54] <craag> They do work, not nearly as well as a real radio but I've successfully tracked a few flights, including receiving Dave's Pi TV pictures.
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[13:54] <Adam_> oh cool
[13:54] <daveake> Better than I thought then :)
[13:54] <Adam_> ok, i've bought one!
[13:54] <Randomskk> is anyone here likely to be tracking on friday?
[13:54] <Adam_> i'll read through today so i can get started when it arrives
[13:54] <eroomde> happy purchase!
[13:54] <Adam_> :)
[13:54] <eroomde> you can explore a lot about radios with one of them
[13:55] <daveake> I'm putting one of these pre-amps in a case today, to test on Friday, hopefully
[13:55] <Randomskk> cool
[13:56] <craag> I get off work at 12 on Friday and the car park has a good view north-east, so I might track from there over lunch.
[13:56] <Randomskk> cool :o
[13:56] <Randomskk> atm launch at 12 looks best but we'll see closer to the time
[13:56] <craag> btw: Does anybody have experience with FT-790 frequency stability issues?
[13:56] <Adam_> so all i need to do is link up the receiver to the SDR program and that will put it on the website?
[13:56] <Randomskk> hm I wonder if I have time this evening to hack on wombat at all
[13:57] <eroomde> nope?
[13:57] <craag> Mine wavers +- 2KHz all the time.
[13:57] <UpuWork> no Adam
[13:57] <eroomde> craag: ^
[13:57] <eroomde> hmm
[13:57] <UpuWork> but check you get a signal first
[13:57] <Adam_> i mean, i'll need the gps too
[13:57] <Adam_> ok
[13:57] <UpuWork> adding it spacenear.us I can link yet more Wiki entries
[13:57] <eroomde> craag: do they have external osc ionputs? (i forget)
[13:57] <UpuWork> but I suspect you've had enough today
[13:57] <Randomskk> Adam_: there's stuff you need to do to a) decode the received radio signal (out of the SDR software) and then have the central system parse your telem
[13:57] <daveake> craag - like mine then. Broke.
[13:57] <Randomskk> but yea
[13:57] <Randomskk> worry about that later
[13:58] <eroomde> yes it's quite a lot to take on in one day
[13:58] <costyn> Adam_: that's for in the future. first things first: microcontroller, gps and payload radio unit (ntx2)
[13:58] <eroomde> suprised you've got yhis far really adam :)
[13:58] <Adam_> haha
[13:58] <eroomde> it's a bit of a download
[13:58] <craag> daveake: Same problem? did you manage to fix it?
[13:59] <Adam_> i've got two arduinos, so i just need the gps and radio
[13:59] <eroomde> http://www.g4hjw.metahusky.net/transverter.html
[13:59] <eroomde> awesome
[13:59] <eroomde> who says you shouldn't use tables for layout
[13:59] <UpuWork> lol
[13:59] <Randomskk> haha
[14:00] <daveake> Sounds similar. The received tones would randomly jump or sweep. No change on the LCD. I sent it to someone who knows a lot more about these than I do :-) but in the end we gave up
[14:00] <costyn> good god... why do these radio amateur websites all look terrible (sorry HAMs, it's true!)
[14:00] <craag> daveake: RTLSDR shows my tracker signal is dead straight on freq, but FT-790 loses it off the top, then off the bottom, and wee-woooooo-weeeee all over the waterfall the rest of the time.
[14:01] <craag> It's my Dad's 790, but he normally just uses it for FM.
[14:01] <eroomde> they were all written in 1992
[14:01] <daveake> I think there's a single gene that causes interest in talking to other people by radio + growing a beard + having no design skill whatsoever
[14:01] <daveake> I've probably insulted a few people now :D
[14:01] <UpuWork> lol
[14:02] <eroomde> some of their pcbs are a work of art though
[14:02] <eroomde> maybe it's just because i find microwaves stuff to be woo
[14:02] <eroomde> but they have diagrams like this [don;t type for a second, ascii diagram coming]
[14:02] <eroomde> 4328MHz -----
[14:02] <eroomde> --------
[14:03] <eroomde> ------------
[14:03] <costyn> daveake: I think you're correct
[14:03] <eroomde> ---- 9656Mhz
[14:03] <costyn> C-c-c-combo breaker
[14:03] <eroomde> i.e. a couple of isolated pcb tracks in the right shape and you've doubled your frequency
[14:03] <costyn> (sorry obscure internet reference)
[14:03] <eroomde> burn them
[14:04] <costyn> eroomde: sorry about my typing
[14:04] <eroomde> it's ok
[14:04] <eroomde> i'll just wideband broadcast on 70cm during your next flight
[14:04] <costyn> :(
[14:05] <x-f> "soon." <-- another obscure internet reference
[14:06] <costyn> x-f: :)
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[14:16] <Adam_> anyone still about? :)
[14:16] <daveake> nope
[14:16] <Adam_> :)
[14:17] <daveake> Actually, nobody's here. We're all bots.
[14:17] <Adam_> which gps module do i need? i've got a NTX2 434.650Mhz on order
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[14:18] <daveake> I suggest you get a UBlox one from Upu's store
[14:19] <Adam_> the £40 one?
[14:19] <Adam_> there are a few types
[14:19] <eroomde> Adam_: a lot of these questions are things you need to be answering for ourself
[14:19] <eroomde> yourself*
[14:19] <Adam_> ok
[14:20] <eroomde> reading enough to be able to know the answer is necessary to be able to make a flight computer
[14:20] <Adam_> ok I'm off to do some reading!
[14:20] <eroomde> cool!
[14:20] <Adam_> might be on later today
[14:20] <Adam_> thanks for the advice, it's been a long day!
[14:20] <Adam_> :)
[14:21] <eroomde> well done on surviving the brain dump from everyone!
[14:21] <Adam_> haha
[14:22] <Adam_> bye
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[14:23] <costyn> hehe
[14:23] <eroomde> just want to encourage him early
[14:24] <eroomde> before he comes another 'bought this. now what?'
[14:24] <eroomde> 'soldered this. now what?'
[14:24] <costyn> :)
[14:24] <daveake> :)
[14:24] <eroomde> 'doesn;t work. now what?'
[14:24] <daveake> "Want to see my breadboard and see where I've gone wrong?"
[14:26] <UpuWork> XD
[14:26] <costyn> if he's doing compsci and chemistry he should be smart enough to figure it out
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[14:36] <nigelvh> Morning all
[14:41] <nigelvh> Fine. Guess I'm not popular enough then.
[14:41] <nigelvh> :'(
[14:42] <Randomskk> no, just in the wrong timezone
[14:42] <Randomskk> I'd happily wish you a good afternoon :P
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[14:51] <costyn> nigelvh: sorry, we're all tired of typing after helping new guy Adam
[14:51] <costyn> nigelvh: asked a lot of questions and got a lot of answers
[14:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
[14:51] <nigelvh> I see
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[14:52] <nigelvh> Typing *can* be difficult
[14:52] <costyn> don't forget tiring ;)
[14:52] <nigelvh> Wednesday morning? I suppose a nap could work.
[14:52] <costyn> nigelvh: but if you ask some good questions or start a good pun, i'm sure people will wake up
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[14:53] <costyn> nigelvh: besides, it's tea-time in the UK, I imagine all those britons are having tea & biscuits
[14:53] <nigelvh> What is the answer to life, the universe, and everything?
[14:53] <eroomde> coffee and a biscit here
[14:53] <eroomde> that was @nigelvh
[14:54] <nigelvh> I don't drink coffee, but I'm sure I could go for a biscit.
[14:54] <eroomde> i couldn't do anything without coffee
[14:54] <eroomde> not even dress
[14:55] <nigelvh> Caffiene doesn't do a lot for me, and coffee and my pallete don't agree, so I don't drink it.
[14:55] <nigelvh> I *do* like some iced tea, or sweet tea. Those are tasty.
[14:56] <nigelvh> But for right now it's 7:55 AM and I've got a root beer.
[14:56] <eroomde> i've just thought of a dessert that could also be a pun
[14:56] <eroomde> sweet tea pie
[14:57] <nigelvh> My favorite desert name of all time has to be "Chocolardiac Arrest"
[14:58] <nick_> Mine is "fromage"
[14:58] <nick_> mmmmm cheese
[14:58] <Randomskk> mmm "cambridge burnt cream"
[14:58] <nick_> (I recently bought £300 of cheese, can't wait to eat it)
[14:58] <nigelvh> In other news I'm kinda pissed off. I sold a car to some guy back in april. Well, apparently he managed to get it towed, and they still think it belongs to me and want me to pay eleventy bajillion dollars.
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[14:59] <nigelvh> So in a few minutes (at 8) I'm gonna call them and say "Screw you. I reported the sale to the state. I don't owe you crap."
[14:59] <costyn> nigelvh: heh
[15:00] <eroomde> nick_: greetings
[15:00] <eroomde> and welcome
[15:00] <eroomde> cheese is the most important thig in my life
[15:00] <jsowman__> costyn: it's totally teatime, correct
[15:00] <nigelvh> Funnily enough the mail I got yesterday consisted of the towing notification, and an offer from subaru for an extended warranty on my new car. It's like they conspired.
[15:00] <nick_> eroomde: do you go to the place in the covered market much?
[15:00] <nigelvh> Also, cheese is awesome.
[15:01] <nigelvh> Though hopefully that goes without saying.
[15:01] <costyn> nigelvh: as an American, that goes without saying
[15:01] <griffonbot> @daveake: Video from the Scouts flight - burst (at the 1:14 mark) and initial descent - http://t.co/MI8Vsutp #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/233216312657186818]
[15:01] <costyn> nigelvh: we wouldn't expect anything else from you :)
[15:01] <nigelvh> Not all brits like cheese?
[15:01] <eroomde> nick_: sometimes
[15:01] <eroomde> and also neals yard
[15:01] <costyn> dunno, I don't think as much as Americans like putting cheese on everything
[15:01] <eroomde> but mainly (being 1/2 french) i just go to town when i'm there
[15:02] <eroomde> we have a shop in Beaune called Rudolph Hess
[15:02] <nigelvh> Cheese + things is delicious.
[15:02] <eroomde> wait no, Alin Hess
[15:02] <daveake> Maybe related to the dire quality of cheese sold in American supermarkets?
[15:02] <eroomde> Rudolph Hess is the family name for the shop
[15:02] <eroomde> anyway, that place is a place of dreams
[15:02] <eroomde> alain hess*
[15:02] <costyn> nigelvh: anyways, I'm Dutch and we know a thing or 2 about cheese
[15:02] <nigelvh> See I live in the pacific northwest and we've got a really nice cheese manufacturer up here, so I always get their stuff.
[15:03] <nigelvh> I'm dutch too!
[15:03] <daveake> nigelvh Where could I get decent cheese in the USA?
[15:03] <eroomde> yeah, good local cheeses are one of life's joys
[15:03] <daveake> Somewhere in/near LA would do for our forthcoming RV roadtrip :D
[15:03] <nigelvh> What kind you looking for?
[15:03] <costyn> nigelvh: cool what generation?
[15:03] <daveake> Strong cheddar would do nicely
[15:03] <nick_> daveake: any supermarket in WI will have good cheese
[15:03] <daveake> And that helps me how? :D
[15:04] <nigelvh> daveake: look for tillamook brand. They're the local good one.
[15:04] <daveake> noted :)
[15:04] <eroomde> this is alain hess
[15:04] <eroomde> http://lh6.ggpht.com/-2DP68003Epk/RmV8IuQ-muI/AAAAAAAAAHU/66S3WlCyxn4/Alain%252520Hess%252520cheese%252520shop%252520in%252520Beaune.jpg
[15:04] <nigelvh> I like their sharp smoked cheddar.
[15:04] <eroomde> that's about 1/3rd of their counter
[15:04] <nick_> It's only a few days drive...
[15:04] <daveake> :D
[15:04] <eroomde> and also they sell 24month aged Comte for about half the price you can get it in the uk
[15:04] <nigelvh> costyn: I'm about half dutch. But maybe four generations down.
[15:05] <eroomde> and comte is really my favouritest cheese in the whole wide world ever
[15:05] <nigelvh> daveake: I also really like their extra sharp white cheddar
[15:05] <Laurenceb> Dakrside is attending the conference in person?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> *Darkside
[15:05] <nigelvh> costyn: that's what the vh is for in my nick. Vander Houwen
[15:06] <costyn> aha
[15:06] <eroomde> i beleive he is Laurenceb
[15:06] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:06] <Laurenceb> the schedule looks a little bare tho
[15:06] <UpuWork> you think ?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> im guessing theres going to be more talks?
[15:07] <UpuWork> oh btw you owe me £10
[15:07] <Laurenceb> what for?
[15:07] <daveake> lol
[15:07] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:07] <UpuWork> as you decided MSL was going to "tangle in wires"
[15:07] <Laurenceb> "conference is crap" penalty?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> oh
[15:07] <UpuWork> and I bet you £10 it wouldn't
[15:07] <UpuWork> and I won
[15:07] <nigelvh> Laurenceb: just send that over to me and I'll make sure it gets to Upu.
[15:07] <Laurenceb> i never bet you
[15:07] <nigelvh> I accept paypal
[15:08] <UpuWork> a small detail Laurence
[15:08] <UpuWork> we have kept the number of talks down this year
[15:08] <UpuWork> as we want to encourage people to talk to each other, discuss stuff, lots didn't get done last year as the talks over ran
[15:09] <nick_> Talks always over run
[15:09] <UpuWork> not this year
[15:09] <nick_> Unless you have someone turn off the mic and lights at the end of each time slot
[15:09] <nick_> That's pretty effective.
[15:09] <UpuWork> <-
[15:10] Action: daveake packs torch and megaphone
[15:10] <Laurenceb> need a taser
[15:10] <nick_> Or hook up a car battery to places the speaker doesn't want it hooked up...
[15:15] <Randomskk> UpuWork: I'll make another request for a lightning talks slot
[15:15] <Randomskk> like, five minute slots
[15:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] conference talk"
[15:15] <Randomskk> maybe five or six of them
[15:16] <Randomskk> say five of them, one minute after each for handover, total time 30 minutes
[15:16] <costyn> or have a countdown timer like at TED
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[15:17] <eroomde> lightning talks are good
[15:18] <nick_> I'll maje a request for lightning dance slots.
[15:18] <nick_> Does anyone have a massive van de graaff generator?
[15:19] <eroomde> the sky
[15:23] <nick_> That's harder to trigger on the lightning dance time slot
[15:28] <Laurenceb> maybe we could have a cauldron of slime
[15:28] <Laurenceb> like the cbbc programmes
[15:29] <eroomde> noel's hab party
[15:31] <griffonbot> @steamfire: @bre general brings some very interesting long range QRO data comms from balloons. DominoEX, RTTY http://t.co/g1VG4aDo #ARHAB #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/233223918322860032]
[15:32] <eroomde> yay for Dan
[15:32] <Randomskk> ugh @bre
[15:33] <Laurenceb> bre pettis?
[15:34] <eroomde> yes
[15:34] <eroomde> him of makezine's balloon many years ago
[15:34] <eroomde> and us trying to do landing spot predictions for him
[15:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
[15:38] <eroomde> don't think that was ever found in the end was it?
[15:39] <eroomde> i think this was the last peep out of the whole project
[15:39] <eroomde> http://blog.makezine.com/2007/04/13/high-altitude-ballooning/
[15:39] <Laurenceb> doh
[15:39] <Randomskk> :P
[15:53] <cuddykid> habhub people.. can I make a small adjustment to the "HABE" flight doc? Just need to change the shift
[15:53] <DanielRichman> that's completely forbidden
[15:53] <DanielRichman> what do you want to change it to?
[15:53] <cuddykid> :P
[15:53] <cuddykid> 1000 please lol
[15:53] <UpuWork> 1000 ?
[15:54] <cuddykid> it's not possible to change the filter bandwidth automatically using flight doc is it?
[15:54] <cuddykid> UpuWork: yeah, it's the PCB
[15:54] <cuddykid> got the resistor values wrong
[15:54] <cuddykid> but it works.. just :D
[15:54] <cuddykid> have to crank "receive filter bandwidth" up to ~180 too
[15:55] <DanielRichman> cuddykid: can't change filter bw, no, sorry
[15:55] <DanielRichman> have changed your shift
[15:55] <cuddykid> as max shift is 1000
[15:55] <cuddykid> thanks DanielRichman :)
[15:56] <cuddykid> UpuWork: can you remember if you ever heard a pulsing sound over the radio when testing the PCB? I get a pulse every ~1sec - doesn't appear to disrupt decode at all though
[15:57] <UpuWork> seemed to work out when I tested it
[15:58] <daveake> Does the "pulse every 1 second" happen tp coincide with GPS NMEA transmissions?
[16:00] <cuddykid> daveake: that's what I first thought& I think so
[16:00] <cuddykid> oh well, as long as it's not affecting the decode (fingers crossed it doesn't conk out 1/2 way through flight) should be ok
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[16:08] <DrLuke> oh god I'm going to die at my workplace
[16:08] <eroomde> from a nasa article about a uav
[16:08] <eroomde> "The latter challenge forced the project team to disassemble the aircrafts wing, where they discovered wires had separated. Innovative repairs were made in the field requiring a creative use of the minimal resources available, and the aircraft was again ready to fly."
[16:08] <eroomde> english: i stripped it back with my thumbnail and spliced with soem electrical tape and don;t u f*cking judge me
[16:08] <DrLuke> I bet it was duct tape
[16:09] <Randomskk> probably tin foil
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[16:28] <upix> hello
[16:29] <upix> Upu: I've got a question for you. Did you solder ublox LCC package yourself?
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[16:33] <Upu> hi upix
[16:33] <Upu> yes I do
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[16:35] <upix> Upu: how do you solder it? in the oven?
[16:35] <Upu> no by hand
[16:35] <upix> and solder iron?
[16:35] <Upu> yep
[16:35] <upix> nice
[16:35] <Upu> I've tried to do it using the force but it doens't work no matter how hard I squeeze
[16:35] <eroomde> over sqeezing can result in flux though
[16:36] <eroomde> be warned
[16:36] <Upu> I heed your warning :)
[16:37] <Adam_> :)
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[16:50] <upix> is there any considerations when placing ublox and rfm22 on pcb, like do they interfere and should be as far as possible, do nearby traces interfere (like ground plane below) etc etc
[16:52] <petrosagg> Hello everyone. In all the balloon videos I have watched the balloon pops at some point and I read it happens because of the low pressure that causes the balloon to increase in volume
[16:52] <eroomde> upix: read the ublox hardware integration manual
[16:53] <upix> will do
[16:53] <petrosagg> So I was wondering if an arduino that controls the pressure in the balloon and makes sure the balloon isn't overinflated would make the system go higher
[16:53] <eroomde> Hello petrosagg
[16:53] <petrosagg> Has anyone tried something like this before?
[16:53] <eroomde> this has been thought of yes
[16:53] <eroomde> and people have made valve to let helium out under computer control
[16:53] <eroomde> valves*
[16:53] <eroomde> but it is a very young area and there is a lot of room for experimentation, should you want to
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[16:54] <petrosagg> I see
[16:55] <petrosagg> According to wikipedia there is a point where air molecules do not mix and ligher moleculer sit on top of other heavier ones
[16:56] <petrosagg> It calls that point turbopause and if the system is good enough it could reach 200km altitude, where the helium gas resides
[16:56] <petrosagg> But I can't find anyone that did it on the internet
[16:56] <eroomde> do some sums on how 'good enough' it would have to be to get a 100g payload to 200km
[16:57] <eroomde> then you'll see why you can't find anyone on the net who has done this
[16:57] <Upu> I think XABEN launch this weekend is venting to enable float
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[17:05] <upix> If I'm using rfm only as transmitter is it worth connecting TX_ANT and RX_ANT pins to GPIO_X and configuring them, or just using pullup on TX_ANT and pulldown on RX_ANT will do as good
[17:07] <Upu> yes I think you need to do that see the wiki article
[17:08] <Upu> Generally you wire them to GPIO
[17:08] <upix> I read it
[17:08] <upix> and GPIO is configured to output RX and TX states
[17:08] <Upu> I guess you could hardwire them
[17:09] <Upu> afk
[17:10] <DrLuke> petrosagg: this turbopause is irrelevant, as the helium inside the balloon has a higher pressure relative to the outside, so it gets pushed out.
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[17:29] <jonsowman> joey appears to be ready to fly
[17:29] <jonsowman> :)
[17:29] <Upu> definitely launching on Friday ?
[17:29] <Upu> and do you have a prediction ?
[17:29] <Gadget-Mac> Evening all
[17:29] <jonsowman> unless something disastrous happens
[17:29] <Upu> I'm tempted to swing the Yagi round towards Cambridge
[17:29] <jonsowman> at http://hourly.cusf.c.uk
[17:29] <jonsowman> *co
[17:30] <jonsowman> look at about midday or 1pm
[17:31] <Upu> perfect doesn't look like I'm going to need to move the antenna at all
[17:31] <Adam_> Wow
[17:31] <jonsowman> :)
[17:31] <Adam_> theres a balloon on the tracking!
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[17:31] <jonsowman> Adam_: Joey is me
[17:31] <jonsowman> i'm just testing :)
[17:31] <Adam_> :)
[17:31] <Adam_> ok :)
[17:31] <jonsowman> it's flying on friday
[17:31] <Gadget-Mac> Wonder if I'll get anything from Brum
[17:32] <Adam_> I'm hoping to launch my first balloon in October/November
[17:32] <jonsowman> :)
[17:32] <jonsowman> don't rush
[17:32] <Adam_> haha
[17:32] <jonsowman> that wasn't sarcastic
[17:32] <jonsowman> it was actual advice
[17:32] <jonsowman> :)
[17:33] <Adam_> i won't :)
[17:33] <jonsowman> if you ever want to come and see one of the cambridge launches you're welcome
[17:33] <jonsowman> i realise it's a bit of a trip
[17:33] <jonsowman> it will help to watch someone else's launch before doing your own though
[17:34] <Adam_> i'd love to, but lincoln is rather a way i'm afraid. have seen a few on youtube though!
[17:34] <jonsowman> yeah
[17:35] <jonsowman> there might be one around you at some point
[17:35] <Adam_> hopefully
[17:35] <jonsowman> email the list if you like
[17:35] <Adam_> what do you mean?
[17:35] <jonsowman> the UKHAS mailing list
[17:35] <jonsowman> you should join if you haven't already
[17:35] <Adam_> ok
[17:35] <jonsowman> you could send an email asking if there is anyone planning a launch near you
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[17:36] <Adam_> how do you put the name of your balloon on spacenear.us?
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[17:37] <jonsowman> once you have a working payload you generate a Flight Document for it, which is given to the tracking system (called "habitat")
[17:37] <jonsowman> telemetry from your payload is parsed according to the document and plotted on the map
[17:38] <Adam_> ah ok
[17:39] <Adam_> i don't have a ham radio, so will be using a TV dongle for testing
[17:40] <Adam_> hopefully when i launch other radios might be able to pick it up so it goes on the site
[17:41] <Adam_> i'm just trying to get the tracking system sorted first
[17:44] <jonsowman> yep
[17:46] <Adam_> using an arduino and NTX2 radio module, but not sure which GPS module to use
[17:47] <Upu> thats easy
[17:47] <Upu> ublox6
[17:47] <Upu> I can personally guarantee they work
[17:47] <Adam_> and how it'll all work together. i've read the tutorial for how to link the arduino and NTX2, but not sure how to encorporate the UBLOX into it so that the transmission will be the GPS
[17:48] <DrLuke> http://i47.tinypic.com/2e37cle.png whyyyyy
[17:48] <eroomde> Adam_: you'll learn as you read more
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[17:48] <Upu> afk cooking
[17:48] <Adam_> Upu, i've seen it on your site but i'm not sure how it'll work as i can't see any code
[17:48] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[17:49] <eroomde> Adam_: let's bash this out now
[17:49] <Upu> however you will need to be able to code to link it all together
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[17:49] <eroomde> you'll have to write some code from scratch
[17:49] <Upu> and listen to Ed
[17:49] <eroomde> flight computer via copy aand paste will not do
[17:49] <eroomde> it's tempting but it ends in frustration and tears
[17:50] <eroomde> never, ever use the copy or paste commands while developing a flight computer
[17:50] <Adam_> can't i edit a generic code?
[17:50] <eroomde> promise me this now
[17:50] <Adam_> ok
[17:50] <eroomde> and i'll do my best to help you through
[17:50] <eroomde> no you can;t edit a generic code
[17:50] <eroomde> we spend so much time on this channel trying fruitless ly help people who just copy and paste
[17:51] <eroomde> and therefore don't really, indeed physically are not capable, of understand what they've done
[17:51] <eroomde> because they've not gone through the process of writing it
[17:51] <Adam_> ok
[17:52] <eroomde> it may not look like it now, but a flight computer with a gps and a radio is honestly quite a simple thing to write, you are definitely very capacble of it
[17:52] <Adam_> it just seems so complex
[17:52] <daveake> If you come here saying "I pasted X and Y and now it doesn't work please help me I'm lost" you won't get much help, mainly because it's almost impossible to help
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[17:52] <daveake> Break it down into steps and you'll get there
[17:52] <eroomde> 15 year olds have come on here and done successful balloon flights, mostly because they've started from scratch and grown their software, learning as the go along
[17:52] <Adam_> Is this what I need to be reading through and doing? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[17:54] <Adam_> where do i start?
[17:54] <eroomde> well, right now it sounds like you don;t know how gps works or how radio works or how to program arduinos
[17:55] <eroomde> now, THIS IS FINE AND NORMAL
[17:55] J0rd4n (J0rd4n@unaffiliated/j0rd4n) got netsplit.
[17:55] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) got netsplit.
[17:55] kopijs (~backup@80.232.211.46) got netsplit.
[17:55] <eroomde> most people don;t know how to do any of those things until they have done them
[17:55] <Adam_> ok
[17:55] Action: fsphil raises hand. yea I had no idea
[17:55] <eroomde> like any learning problem, one at a time
[17:55] <Hiena> Yeah, nobody born with c manual and soldering iron.
[17:56] <eroomde> so, stop worrying about all of these things
[17:56] <Adam_> ok
[17:56] <eroomde> forget any notion of copy and paste (seriously, if u get stuck and i ask you top paste your code somewhere to have a look and sense it's been copied, i will hurt you) and just start from the beginning
[17:56] <eroomde> you'll be getting a radio and an arduino in the post soon right
[17:57] <Adam_> i have two arduinos
[17:57] <eroomde> great
[17:57] <Hiena> Try to get the basic ideas like how the basic communications works. The serial is good start.
[17:57] <Adam_> and already have a transmitter
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[17:57] <Adam_> ok
[17:57] <daveake> And don't worry about having a particular target date for your first launch. Took me 5 months from "I'll do that" to doing it, and I'd done embedded programming and GPS and telemetry and electronics before
[17:57] <eroomde> so, just get that working
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[17:58] <eroomde> having got that working, you will know more about arduinos and interfacing to hardware
[17:58] <daveake> A lot of that time was spent scouring the web for info
[17:58] <eroomde> you'll be able to start answering your own questions about gps stuff because it'll be a bit like that thing you did before
[17:58] <Adam_> ok
[17:58] <eroomde> and at no time will you copy and paste on pain of severest death
[17:59] <eroomde> we've seen this so many time on this channel - copy + paste without understanding = certain failurew
[17:59] <Adam_> k
[17:59] <Adam_> ok
[17:59] <eroomde> nothing to do with intelligence, everything to do with just acceptiong that it's gonna take some work but the work will pay off
[17:59] <eroomde> so, you in?
[18:00] <Hiena> Adam_: start with a simple led blinker code. If you understand it, and how the serial communication works, you could write a code sending sort serial to the computer. When you done, you could start with the gps.
[18:00] <Adam_> yep, i'm in. want to get this going
[18:00] <eroomde> cool
[18:00] <Adam_> i've used the Blink code before :)
[18:00] <eroomde> so yes, hineas advice is good
[18:00] <Adam_> adjusted a few of the variables
[18:00] <eroomde> the general priciple is to never do anything that you don't understand
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[18:00] <Adam_> ok
[18:01] <eroomde> predict what you expect the outcome to be before you put the code on the micro etc
[18:01] <eroomde> that way you'll learn
[18:01] <eroomde> and we'll help if you still can't understand the behaviour of something you've coded (it happens)
[18:01] <eroomde> assuming you've had a go at breaking it down yourself
[18:02] <Adam_> ok
[18:02] <Adam_> it's just with no knowledge of how the radio transmitter or gps communicate i don't know where to start
[18:02] <Adam_> where the code is coming from etc
[18:02] <eroomde> so yeah, the led is quite like the ntx2 radio - toggling a single pin
[18:02] <Adam_> on off
[18:02] <eroomde> but it's all about the code that times when to turn the pin on and off
[18:03] <Adam_> ok
[18:03] <eroomde> exactly, that's understandable
[18:03] <eroomde> srart with the radio
[18:03] <eroomde> egt it so you can transmit 'hi i'm adam' onto fldigi
[18:03] <eroomde> then you know you can get a radio sending text
[18:03] <eroomde> job done
[18:03] <Adam_> woah didn't realise you could do that
[18:03] <Adam_> just strings it's sending then?
[18:04] <daveake> yes
[18:04] <eroomde> yes exactly
[18:04] <Adam_> and the gps coordinates are in a string?
[18:04] <Adam_> ok
[18:04] <daveake> yes
[18:04] <eroomde> that's the beauty of attacking the problem in small chunks
[18:04] <eroomde> get it so u can send a fixed string
[18:04] <Hiena> Yup, understanding is important. Usually i ends two loose an eyebrow or two, when i'm mixing chemicals without fully understand how they works. Hindsight: Never wipe your forehead with a unknown composite cement mixture on your gloves.
[18:05] <Adam_> so should i order a gps module too yet?
[18:05] <eroomde> then once u know u have solid string sending code, THEN you can tackle the gps
[18:05] <Adam_> ok
[18:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Jonty Wareing "Re: [UKHAS] EMF Event."
[18:05] <daveake> I'd just get an Arduino and NTX2, and a receiver, then get that doing "Hello World" first
[18:05] <eroomde> knowing that if it's going wrong, it's probably a gps handling bug rather than a string transmitting bug, because you know you've got good string sending code
[18:06] <eroomde> if u try and do radio and gps at the same time, it makes it harder to isolate where the bug might be
[18:06] <eroomde> i agree with daveake 100%
[18:06] <Gadget-Mac> Before I dive into the source code, how does dl-fldigi upload data, is it a web connection ?
[18:06] <eroomde> one bit at a time
[18:06] <eroomde> buy the gps when you're ready for it
[18:06] <fsphil> Gadget-Mac: it does an http post
[18:06] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: libcurl i think - so http messages to the server
[18:07] <Gadget-Mac> Cool. No firewall mods needed :)
[18:07] <daveake> nope
[18:07] Action: Gadget-Mac has a slightly OTT firewall setup
[18:07] <daveake> For testing though you run it locally so it doesn't try to upload to the server (which would reject the data anyway)
[18:07] <Adam_> I did basic C# at college
[18:07] <Adam_> but i've forgotten most of it
[18:08] <eroomde> that's fine
[18:08] <Adam_> could do basic printing
[18:08] <eroomde> you forget the language
[18:08] <eroomde> but the general principle of structuring code will serve you well
[18:08] <Gadget-Mac> daveake: Sure, just looking at getting it working, presume I can use one of the sample mp3 files sent to the soundcard ?
[18:09] <eroomde> Adam_: so, are you happy you've got a first step? as i say, don't worry about the grand plan, you don't need to see miles over the horizon yet. just the next chunk of functionality
[18:09] <eroomde> so, arduino + ntx2
[18:09] <daveake> I wouldn't bother. All you're doing is testing that you can use fldigi
[18:09] <Adam_> yep
[18:10] <eroomde> cool
[18:10] <eroomde> we're here for you :)
[18:10] <Adam_> thanks :)
[18:11] <eroomde> this all might sound a bit heavy handed for which I apologise, but just trust me, the number of times we've seen people dive in and try and do everything at once, well not even einstein could cope with all that
[18:11] <eroomde> and they just end up being frustrated and not understanding all the 200 things they've copied snippets of
[18:11] <eroomde> this really is the better way
[18:11] <eroomde> this is not pride of place in our toilet
[18:12] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/VcQkH.jpg
[18:12] <daveake> I think Job's patience would be tested here sometimes
[18:12] <eroomde> myhousemate got an autograph from lewis and hathaway from Lewis
[18:12] <eroomde> they were in our local bar
[18:12] <Adam_> ok that's cool
[18:12] <eroomde> it says 'dear angharad, we love you. laurence and kevin"
[18:13] <eroomde> she adores this tv show more than anything
[18:13] <eroomde> when they were filming on our street she phoned me up in hysterics
[18:13] <Adam_> that's good
[18:13] <Adam_> i've got a few autographs
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[18:23] <eroomde> Adam_: so far this is the only one in our house
[18:24] <Adam_> :(
[18:24] <Adam_> i stopped collecting a while back
[18:24] <Adam_> but mine are through the mail
[18:24] <Adam_> so to get one in person is amazing! :)
[18:24] <eroomde> i think they'd just been filming
[18:24] <eroomde> (we live in oxford)
[18:25] <eroomde> so you see them about a bit
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[18:26] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Launch Announcement (11th August) MONDO"
[18:28] <Adam_> ok
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[18:34] <Adam_> will i need to buy any resistors?
[18:35] <daveake> Have you had a look at the circuit on the wiki for connecting to the NTX2?
[18:36] <Adam_> yes, and it says three resistors
[18:36] <Adam_> however i'm not sure if that's all i'll need once the gps is connected
[18:36] <daveake> Depends on which Arduino you get
[18:36] <Adam_> i have two
[18:36] <daveake> Which are?
[18:37] <Adam_> the mega and the duemilanove (spelling mistake!) one
[18:37] <daveake> OK those are both 5V models
[18:37] <daveake> And the GPS will be 3.3V
[18:37] <Adam_> there's a 5v gps but it's £10 extra
[18:37] <daveake> It's OK to connect a 3.3V signal (e.g. the GPS output) to a 5V processor
[18:38] <daveake> But if you connect a 5V signal from the Arduino to a 3.3V GPS bad things may happen
[18:38] <daveake> One option is a resistor
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[18:38] <daveake> Another option is the GPS breakout that Upu's made, which does the level conversion for you
[18:39] <Adam_> hmm
[18:39] <Adam_> i'll order those three resistors anyway
[18:39] <daveake> I used a 3.3V Arduino because it doesn't need either
[18:39] <daveake> Sure
[18:39] <Adam_> i didn't realise threre were 3.3v arduinos?
[18:39] <daveake> If you have a Maplin store nearby they're handy for that stuff
[18:39] <nosebleedkt> Upu,
[18:39] <nosebleedkt> ping
[18:39] <Adam_> yep, i have a maplin
[18:40] <daveake> You can get a 3.3V "Mini Pro". But"
[18:40] <daveake> But it is Mini ... not the easiest to use if you've not soldered before
[18:40] <Adam_> ok, i'll just have to pay £40 for the 5v gps
[18:41] <jonsowman> this is quite cool: http://ruggedcircuits.com/html/ruggeduino.html
[18:41] <jonsowman> not that you necessarily need it
[18:41] <jonsowman> just came across it the other day
[18:42] <Adam_> ok
[18:42] <Adam_> i just want to spend as little as possible really haha
[18:42] <daveake> nice :)
[18:42] <daveake> "all the common mistakes that people make" .... oh I bet there are some they haven't seen yet :D
[18:43] <jonsowman> make something idiot proof, and someone will make a better idiot
[18:45] <daveake> And that's a trait that has no apparent limit
[18:45] <LazyLeopard> Heh
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[19:25] <gonzo_> a quote I saw today... It IS user friendly, it's just not idiot friendly
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[20:32] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:33] <Upu> evening
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[20:41] <nosebleedkt> magic mothafucka: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/620510_502209346459781_645899209_o.jpg
[20:41] <nosebleedkt> ping Upu
[20:41] <nosebleedkt> Composition of 4 sequential images
[20:41] <Upu> evening nosebleedkt
[20:41] <Upu> that does look quite amazing
[20:42] <Upu> thanks for my new wall paper
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> lol beach volleyball
[20:42] <nosebleedkt> is that earth curvature or Randomskk's fisheye effect?
[20:42] <Upu> curvature
[20:42] <Upu> you weren't using a fish eye lense
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> beach volleyball "athletes" have tramp stamps
[20:43] <fsphil> oh that's nice
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> no surprise there
[20:43] <Upu> glad it worked anyway nosebleedkt
[20:43] <Randomskk> nosebleedkt: niiice
[20:44] <Upu> was worth that long recovery :)
[20:44] <nosebleedkt> Upu, i did another composition of 12 images but it made the ground like it passed from 20 rihter earthquake
[20:44] <Upu> yeah that can happen
[20:44] <Upu> its a bit trial and error
[20:45] <Upu> also play with the settings between type like planar/rotating etc
[20:45] <jcoxon> great picture nosebleedkt
[20:45] <nosebleedkt> yeah
[20:45] <nosebleedkt> thanks everybody
[20:45] <nosebleedkt> that 1/3 of greece
[20:45] <nosebleedkt> :P
[20:46] <Upu> so everything you see in that picture is worth about -150 billion euros ? :)
[20:46] <Randomskk> so is anyone else here planning on going to EMF yet? they have day tickets up for grabs and also I'm giving a talk about HAB/ukhas/cusf :P
[20:46] <nosebleedkt> Upu, lol
[20:46] <jcoxon> unfortunately i'm probably working
[20:46] <jcoxon> Randomskk, makes me really sad
[20:47] <nosebleedkt> Upu, new magic
[20:47] <nosebleedkt> http://imgur.com/u7kJZ
[20:48] <Upu> yeah not quite right but thats alot of image
[20:48] <nosebleedkt> yeah
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[20:48] <Upu> you could probably bend that in photoshop
[20:48] <nosebleedkt> im not that good
[20:50] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/J5kYF.jpg
[20:50] <nosebleedkt> raped
[20:50] <Upu> but how much photo manipulation is a bad thing ?
[20:50] <nosebleedkt> lol
[20:50] <nosebleedkt> bad earthquake
[20:51] <nosebleedkt> armaggedon
[20:52] <jcoxon> so a pico with a nuclear battery
[20:52] <jcoxon> seems to be hte power source of choice
[20:52] <nosebleedkt> nuclear bat?
[20:52] <nosebleedkt> :P
[20:52] <Upu> you're going to need alot of party balloons
[20:52] <jcoxon> they did it on mars
[20:53] <nosebleedkt> any commercial ?
[20:53] <nosebleedkt> :p
[20:53] <jcoxon> hehe
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[20:53] <jcoxon> from russia perhaps...
[20:53] <nosebleedkt> lol
[20:54] <Upu> my friend Igor says he has just the thing buyer collects : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Soviet_RTG.jpg/300px-Soviet_RTG.jpg
[20:55] <craag> Nice, you could probably save weight by just keeping that on the ground and running a couple of wires up to the balloon..
[20:55] <russss> ah
[20:55] <russss> reminds me of
[20:55] <russss> abandoned russian polar nuclear lighthouses!
[20:55] <russss> http://englishrussia.com/2009/01/06/abandoned-russian-polar-nuclear-lighthouses/
[20:56] <Upu> indeed
[20:57] <nosebleedkt> .
[20:58] <jcoxon> the comments on that are excellent
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> the bellona people are nuts
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> they published a document full of coordinated for unsecured RTGs
[20:59] <Upu> Yes, that is EXACTLY why the submarines sunk, because the lighthouses were out of order. Lighthouses are crucial for submarine navigation.
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> I hear EADS have a warehouse full
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> somewhere in russia
[21:00] <daveake> Aren't submarines supposed to sink? :p
[21:01] <jcoxon> Upu, thats my favourite
[21:01] <jcoxon> russss, do you think anyone from london hackspace would be interested in coming to the ukhas conference?
[21:02] <russss> probably worth posting to the mailing list
[21:02] <jcoxon> i better sign back up
[21:02] <jcoxon> as i'm moving back to london
[21:04] <russss> awesome
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[21:09] <jcoxon> still doing tuesday evenings?
[21:11] <russss> yep
[21:11] <fsphil> I need another monitor to fit nosebleedkt's picture on my background
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[22:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
[23:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
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[23:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] conference talk"
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 9 2012